Proceeded from http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/368156/+2500

I am a degree graduate and am earning only 1700 per monthbeing an executive in retail industry, but im happy with my job and my current lifestyle. Having work for 3 years, i have limited savings due to the low salary and high living expenses. But this doesnt deter me from saving and start investing. Got no car, no house, no property whatsoever. Bad Bad

Due to peer pressure, i think its better off to bump up my self confidence and look for better opportunities, when most of my friends are earning more than 5k per month, im earning 1.7k. This is what we choose, what i have choosen 3 years ago. But this thinking had been in my mind the first day i started my current job, and time flies, 3 years later, im still here, complaining that i earn peanuts, but did i do anything? =/ Well, obviously i dint do enough. We must believe that there is a better and brighter sky out there.

For those who earn high income but complain that standard of living is too high, got not enough money to use, think of those like me who earn so little yet managed to save and invest. People earning 1k plus can start a family, by living within their means. You can do it, the key is actually PERSONAL FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT. Take it personal, there is no plan that is for everyone. Manage it perrsonaly, do not just whine and complain like me =/

Now for those who are like me, always complain that pay is low, do you have capabilities that proved that you are indeed underpaid, if yes, anything been done? Ever look for better opportunities, i believe a lot of you would say No. Because im in the exact same situation so i understand =/ Again, it PERSONAL FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT. Its your life, its personal, its how you managed it. I have been giving it a lot of thought lately, im getting older, i already have a slow start up, now my resolution for 2011 is to get a new job. Albeit slower than those who earn more and save more, we can also achieve it, thru various ways.

Take charged. Make it personal.

Hard to believe you are a graduate with 3 yrs working experience earning just RM1.7K. You seem to be mature in thinking and come across as a well adjusted individual. Maybe you just need to be a little more ambitious. Best of luck in your future endeavor!

for 3 minutes, just ignore the blue tag

i'm currently nearing my thirties. what i do and how much i earn shouldn't be important, rigth?

currently,

1. i maxed out my ASB investment
2. HP repayment about RM 800, another 2 yrs left <-- my only liability, currently
3. property loan repayment = RM 2k per month, 9.5 yrs left

i've been saving almost 60% of my salary. my ASB goes from zero to max within 5 years.

i don;t desire many things but i still do spend normally - a new phone every year, this and that, fine watches, bicycles, gadgets, etc etc

now my big problem: i just don't have any idea what else to do with the money. pls help.

atm, i just dump my extra money into ASM or ASW which earns me about 6% return annually.

and to quote from a popular pop song "i wanna be a billionaire, so freaking bad... bla bla bal bala bal"

and oh yeah. i'm single. w/o insurance (never believe in insurance)

This post has been edited by lucifah: Sep 27 2010, 11:28 PM

Hi all, I am a fresh graduate starting work in pj. I am determined to save up and invest rather than spending it away.

So here is what I got.
-I have a 2.7k salary, with around RM400 allowance, which most of the time will be used up for transportation, since I travel alot.
-I got a car, and won't be changing it, just maintain it.

The question is, how and what should I invest in? Coz I dun believe in putting money in bank, coz the interest rate is way too low. I believe money can generate more money itself. Hope some sifu will gimme some advise!

Well, ASB is the best risk adjusted investment out there. If you have max out, then you will need other options. Well below is several investment option, no recommendations since I don't know how risk adverse are you. Look through the list and see if anything particular interests you.

1. Fixed Deposit - Well everyone knows this, risk free but you only get about 2.8% to 3.3% per year, barely keeping up with inflation. You can get 4%-5% with foreign fixed deposit, but these have currency conversion risk and charges.

2. Share market - This option will need a lot of study and stock selection, if you have time to learn all about it, it could be rewarding, as the gains are not limited. However it is quite risky as share prices can drop significantly. Many a fortune was made and lost in the share market.

If you want stable income you can consider REITs which is paying 7%-8+% in dividends a year and is actually quite stable. If you ignore the market prices (prices can come down!) and just collect dividends then it could be a good income generator for a long time.

3. Unit Trust - If you want others to do your investing works for you, then you can consider unit trusts. There are loads out there, but not everyone is good, there are some real bad ones as well. If you want to select good funds choose those which fits your risk, chose from the 10% in at least 5 years of history. Unit trust funds are capable of 20%-30% profit a year but is ALSO capable of losing up to 50% in bad economic times.

Alternatively you can consider guaranteed fund, but these usually perform on par with bond funds. However there is very little risk, at worst you get your money back, with no earnings.

4. Bond Funds - Commercial and government debts. If you want another source of stable income, bond funds are less volatile than other share funds. expect to get about 5%-6% for good quality bond funds, and 7%-9% for emerging market funds but at considerably more risk. However bond funds rarely drops more than 10% in bad times.

5. Property - Property with good location can be a a good income generator provided you get at least 6-7% yield. If you did not pay for an overpriced property, with the yield above, your property loan can be fully serviced by your tenant. At the end of your loan period, you get the property for free, and bonus for capital appreciation. However there are risk of your property not rented out and if you choose to buy in a poor area.

6. Well the final option is to dump more money with ASNB with the 6% return annually. But that is boring.

---

Added on September 28, 2010, 9:43 amlook at the reply above, see if anything interest you and you would like to know better.

This post has been edited by gark: Sep 28 2010, 09:54 AM

Hi, Im 20 this year and im doing my 2nd year diploma. im doing some part-time and able to earn up 800 per month. Till now im able to save up 5k in my saving account. Recently one of my friend introduce me a investment company that invest in forex. http://www.owgfx.com/ im not sure whether i should put in some money inside to invest cause i like to see my money keep growing or continue to earn 800 per month? please give me some advise what should i do now and any ideas that can help me to keep my money grow. thanks people.

It is impossible to have any investment that can earn you Rm800 per month consistently with a 5K capital.

For forex issue, please read this.
http://www.bnm.gov.my/index.php?ch=8&pg=14&ac=1976

I never expect to earn RM800 per month with 5k investment. As long got return in the investment is already okay for me.

Hello Eelinkim,

Some questions, your "friend" said forex is good. so how many years he traded in the forex market ? how many % can he profit from it?

Don't jump into the forex market based on other ppl's opinion. Forex is a very very volatile market... Trust me, it is not for everyone.

I have seen some of my friends lost all their hard earned money in one night...

All the above statement i made sounds quite "risky" & "danger". However, I myself is a part time forex trader. In my opinion the risk is manageable.

Remember, DO NOT INVEST in anything YOU NOT FAMILIAR WITH ! STAY OUT of you don't know !

Cheers

This post has been edited by cscheat: Sep 29 2010, 09:59 PM

Hi jeff_ckf,

Thanks for you explaination.

I just received the offer letter from the new company. I was also informed by the HR of the company that the EPF portion contributed by me is 11% of my salary. However I can chose to pay 8%. Whereby the company will pay another 12% for EPF. As the EPF's return is not that attractive, I prefer to contribute 8%, not 11%. As a whole the total contribution to EPF is 20% then.

Hi Eelinkim

If something sounds too good to be true, you have to think more about it. Anyway, who knows there might have such too good stuff for us to explore and dig out? So it's your own responsibilities to make sure you know more your investment.

Hi kevinwcm,

I would suggest to invest into stock market. Do your home work by researching the listed companies' annual reports and find out potential and good quality companies then invest your spare money into those companies. After investing your money into those companies, treat them as your own business and keep the investment for long term. Then pump in stock market whenever you have extra cash, later you will find you have accumulated and growth your wealth with the stock market.

If you are a newbie to stock market, maybe you should 1st start to look at blue chip companies. I can also recommend you to buy a listed close-end fund, i.e. icapital.biz Berhad of which NAV grows at an annual compounded rate of 19%.

I just wanna know , can I really do something on my money ? I got q quite heavy burden with me now and got no where to go !

Basic Salary = RM 1,800 , after deduct 8% then will RM 1,656 + RM 700 ( Fixed monthly allowance ) = RM 2,356

Car loan : RM 352 ( I drive VIVA only )
Life Insurance + Medical Card : RM 100
My bro laptop installment : RM 91.58
My own laptop : RM 242
Digi broadband : RM 88
My hp installment : RM 135.75
My dad loan ( only end at December 2011 ) : RM 1,077.94
Handphone bill : RM 100
Food : Don't talk about even .. cannot even think.

Food : Don't take breakfast,lunch sometimes eat bread,if can go out and see customer,can CLAIM , at night eat roti canai

Totol : RM 2,087.27 ~

After salary and deduce commitment I left RM 168.73 ~

How guys ?

This post has been edited by WhiteWing: Oct 1 2010, 02:14 PM

waiting for property bubble to burst before going on a spending spree...

Wow, your dad's loan killing you. Most of your expense is installment, I think you can't stop it unless you want to stop using it (Car, Hp, Laptop).

Anyway, try to reduce other expense or increase your income by doing free lance. I assumed you are doing sales (meet customer, fixed allowance) and should have a lot contact. Try to do something like referring customer for other business and get paid.

Good luck !!!

WhiteWing, my advice. Take care of yourself by having proper meals instead of those unhealthy foods rather than spending so much for laptop, broadband and handphone monthly.

If i were you, i already have a laptop, i don't really have to own a fancy handphone. I believe the handphone is your personal satisfaction but if you started to worry about your monthly over-expenses, then you'll noticed that all of this things are unnecessary for you.

Yah I think WhiteWing should have cut some of the laptop/handphone installments if you are really desperate. Don't forget, you still not add in the transporation cost. We assume you do not use the car to travel to your company, but you still need to spend on public transport right, unless you are working to the company of which is close to your home.

Below is my opinion:-

Car loan : RM 352 ( I drive VIVA only ) (Not going to advice you to sell the car otherwise you will incur losses and still owe the bank though you might be paying a lower installment subsequently. Since your dad's loan going to finish in a year, so you pray u can tahan to pay this 352 in the next 12 months)
Life Insurance + Medical Card : RM 100 (100 in insurance is minimum, should keep this)
My bro laptop installment : RM 91.58 (i'm assume you are helping your younger brother to buy laptop and assume your younger brother could be in college so he needs a laptop to do homework, ask him to work out this part himself, ask him work part time lah)
My own laptop : RM 242 (if really desperate, sell your laptop and use your brother's laptop)
Digi broadband : RM 88 (broadband is not that important, cut this and transfer to your food expenses)
My hp installment : RM 135.75 (I assume you are paying installment for a fancy phone cost about RM2k? sell it if you desperate, so you not only got some cash to sustain your live style for the next few months till clearing your dad loan, you also lessen your burden of paying 135.75 no more each month)
My dad loan ( only end at December 2011 ) : RM 1,077.94 (I don't know what happen to your dad, hope it wont happen again or else you have to find another higher pay job to cover this portion)
Handphone bill : RM 100 (i think this part is high, if can cut by half)
Food : Don't talk about even .. cannot even think. (don't be too harsh to yourself on food, if u sick becuz of lacking of nutrient, you will be more into trouble)
Food : Don't take breakfast,lunch sometimes eat bread,if can go out and see customer,can CLAIM , at night eat roti canai

I am waiting too... . So far no crash but the price appreciation has slowed down. The last property I bought is yielding about 8% for me.

Guys. My monthly expenses:

Fixed:
Car Loan: RM470
House Rent: RM260
Credit Card Installment: RM350 (5 months left)
Phone Bill: RM50
Total: RM1150

Variable:
Parking: RM50
Petrol car/bike: RM200
Food and everyday's expenses: RM750
Public Transportation: RM100
Total: RM1100

I am 25. Earn about RM2200 per month. Don't drive cars too much as i have bike but i think i'm going to take public transportation for a while now. The problem is there is so many unexpected things happened, and i have no savings and i have just settled down my personal loan lately and want to begin to save now. No more personal loan and credit card usage for me after this, regret so much. In the near future, my monthly expenses will change because of further study in Degree as a part timer soon.

Fixed:
Car Loan: RM470
House Rent: RM260
Education loan: RM450
Phone Bill: RM50
Total: RM1250

Variable:
Parking: RM50
Petrol car/bike: RM200
Food and everyday's expenses: RM750
Public Transportation: RM100
Total: RM1100

What should i do guys? Where should i cut the expense?

The sales are not increase and I cannot hit the target so cannot get the commission

My handphone is a GPS phone for me .. I need to for travel to my customer place ... Once I know for 1st time then I don't use it anymore except I got new customer again.

Sad case , and I only 22 .. LOL !

I've decided.

I'll raise my property loan repayment so i can save on interest

currently, the best of ASN or ASM or any AS is around 6%, which is lower than the current BLR

so what say you guys?

waiting for property market bubble to burst is like waiting for uncertainty, which may or may not happen

anyhow, speaking of property, i prefer buying shoplot (with good location) rather than houses as they appreciate faster and is more liquid. only thing is the interest rate for the loan is much higher than homeloan (yeah, i know there's a way around that by re-mortgaging your house)

Not worth it to clear your property loan. You save at interest rate of about 4.8%-5%, but instead you can get a semi-guaranteed 6% from ASN. Furthermore the loan interest amount can offset your rental income (for the same property only, if you stay yourself, no savings!), so you can save on your income tax. If you have extra money consider to invest in a secondary property instead. Property type depend on your investment.

Landed houses - Very bad yield (~2-3%), the best appreciation if the location is good.
Apartment/Condo - Good yield (~6%-8%), lower appreciation, older condo don't appreciate much.
Shophouse/Lot - Medium Yield, medium appreciation. Highly dependent on the economy.

This post has been edited by gark: Oct 4 2010, 09:03 AM

Your car + food & every day expenses is killing you

Hi all!

Pardon me I am a green horn. Hope to learn from you guys.


How volatile is the bond market at the present moment?

If I want to invest in bond fund, what's your recommendation?

How much do I start with?

What are their charges, commission etc?

Thanks in anticipation.



Nomen

Hi Nomen, in some cases, bond unit trust is better than Fixed deposit and there is also more flexibility. However, it is not very popular as the comission for the agent is really small. The sales charge is only 0.25% for public mutual, public islamic sector bond fund. Even when the market turns down, and it is safer to go to bond, you don't often hear the agents asking you to switch. Annual fee is up to 0.83%. Total return last year was 5%, quite comparable or better than fd. This year is looking better. performance is not volatile, in fact for the last year, it looks like a straight line up. Minimum investment is Rm 1,000. you can add a minimum of rm 100 anytime. you can make direct debit instruction from bsn, public bank and maybank for disciplined investment.

the stock market is going up now, so now is actually the time to go equity fund. Find an agent that has the expertise to advise when trend is shifting so you can then protect your gain by going to
bond.

I am happy to answer any questions, feel free to pm me. For a faster response, please email me.

I am much obliged for your kind reply.

I plan to open 2 accounts to go into Unit Trust Fund Investment for a start.
One Equity Account &
One Bond Account
to switch from equity to bond during a down trend as you had advised
but I need to find sometime one with expertise.

There are lots of bonds to choose from but how do I differentiate which bond is a junk bond.

As for Equity fund, since I am a beginner I would only go for a low risk appetite.

I do hope to get some tips contribution from you and other experienced investors from this forum as well.

Thank You.

Nomen

Ho Nomen, sorry for the late reply.
The first thing you want to focus on is selecting the right unit trust company
The second most important or maybe the first? is selecting a unit trust consultant. You need a unit trust consultant who can help you to maximize your profit, not just his/hers.
Then the last one is selecting the fund, it is not the other way around.
I will follow up with other posts.

---

Added on October 8, 2010, 11:00 pmThe key to to success in unit trust invetsment is timing/switching, i.e. when to move from equity fund to bond fund and vice versa. If you do it well, God willing, it will be very profitable. The key then is to find a unit trust company that let you switch easily without incurring unnecessary charges. Then you need to find a unit trust consultant that can tell you when to switch, unless you have the expertise.

Some unit trust company doesn't encourage switching, you pay the sales charge when you come back in again even though you have paid it before. You need to be able to do it easily without asking permission or paying the sales charge again.

The unit trust consultant that can advise you about market timing or when to switch should have some fundamental knowledge such as
-Intermarket relationship
-Market sentiment
-Sound knowledge and experience in technical analysis

I have my bias, I will PM you some details.

This post has been edited by buylowsellhigh: Oct 8 2010, 11:00 PM

I disagree
Although selecting the good unit trust company is important.
Selecting a right UT which suit to individual risk appetite is the most important and which is always the one dictates how well your invested money is doing.

Under a good unit trust company, there is a fund register 20% gain from last year performance, there is also a fund register 30% losses since launched 2 years ago. Some even 40-50% since first day launching, even come from a big reputable and good UT company.

The key to success of a investment is always the right investment, not timing. Althought timing does help, and sometimes very important.
Timing a unit trust is just like timing a stock goes up and goes down and your earn between from it. This is very difficult and most people won't able to do it in real life.
There is a good unit trust or fund that has been register hefty gain since start 10 years + ago, which you don't need to time the market at all to have a 200% gain over the last 10+ years.

Although timing can maximise the profit, it could minimise the profit as well. It works both well.
Try to time the market, is like try to more clever than the market.

Although sometimes, we can time the market, as it doesn't need rocket science or specific analysis to know the market is too high, just like bond is going up non-stop for the last year or so until now, which common sense does tell us bond price is a bit high now.
In ordinary market condition, timing the market is always a bad practice, and may minimise your profit instead maximise it.

Invest in UT is about long term investment. It is not advisable to invest long term based on TA alone. Long term investment is all about fundamental issue.

UT not recommended unless u really have no idea on how to invest your money.
UT fees & commissions will be there irrespective of the funds performance.
Up or down the UT fund managers are making money out of u.

If u still want to buy then look for low cost UT, typically index type fund
or better still put your money in index linked ETF.

Invest periodically. When price is high u get less units and when low u get more units. In the long run your cost will average. (dollar cost averaging).
So this will eliminate the timing issue.

Money used for this investment should be for long term saving. (Retirement,children's education fund etc.) Not money you are going to use next year or so.

I can sympathize with xu7jp and cherroy view indeed. The view is correct for most people since timing the market is a skill possessed by a select few. At some point I felt the same way and was contented with putting my hard earned money in a safe but low return investment vehicle. Our conclusion is shaped by our assumptions and our assumptions are based on our knowledge. Once our knowlede expands, so will our assumptions and therefore our conclusion. I think it is best to say that if you can't find a person or a way to relaiably time the market then just stick to what most people do.

As for me, the charts below speaks for themselves. The first one is how my system, pure TA, signals the bottom of the market in early 2009 and the second one is how KLSE is doing now. The system determines the cycle direction, momentum, strength, and also how the other asia pacific bourses are performing. The system was developed to tell me when the market is starting an uptrend, downtrend or moving sideways and by taking into account various market behavior over decades. there is demand for such timing advise for those who do not want to dabble in the stock market. If anyone has more detailed question not related to this thread feel free to PM me.

The question I ask myself is which one is safer, letting my profit disappear during a bear (downturn) market or protecting it if we can?. I think each of us know the answer. Anyhow, best of luck to all.

Early 2009. note also how my system called the market top early 2008.


Now


Source: http://belirendahjualtinggi.wordpress.com

This post has been edited by buylowsellhigh: Oct 9 2010, 06:38 PM

No offence, it is too late to talk about this.
What concern whatever TA, or fundamental POV is where we are going now.

We can look back and put tons of theory and TA on it, but this doesn't address what we are most concerning now.
Everytime we make investment, is what next. Not looking back on what system pointed out which is signal this and that. No offence.

If this has been posted during 2008, to signal high so that people get out of market, I congratulated.
If this has been posted during early 2009, signal bottom has been formed and guide people to buy, I congratulated.

Often TA or a lot of TA tehory doesn't address top or bottom was formed after market trend has been formed later on, aka too late.
It doesn't address the current issue.
Just like now, I ask where is TA currently pointing to which direction?
This is the answer we want.

The correct way to prove a TA works or not, is posting now what TA is pointing us to.
Then we look back after 6 months or so, and this process repeating, only then the validity of the TA has more credibility.

We can have tons of TA theory out there to prove 2007-2008 was the market high and 2008-2009 was the market bottom.
As look back is easy, going forward is not.

RIGHT NOW
Actually no offense. I thought I have answered your question before you actually asked it since I posted the chart that shows how it looks like NOW.
Now it is pointing up. That's the red curve pointing up, it is showing the current trend. That's all I need. That's me going foward. I will remain bullish until when it changes direction.

The past data is to show how the system performed in the past since the system does not attempt to curve fit future data. It was designed knowing that market has many personality.
As an investor myself it doesn't make sense to me to create a system that cheats me or curve fit future data on current data.
the way i test the system is to actually take out some data and see how the system works at critical juncture.


FORWARD TESTING, BLIND DATA.
One of many examples below. I loaded data till May 2009. So basically the system is blind to the fact that we had a confirmed bull run in 2009 until present. But already in April-May 2009, once we had a confirmed long trem trend, away from the violent whipsaw previously seen at the bottom, (I am not interested in short term trend), the red curves turned up. Definitely not too late.



This is another signal from my system. The price bar turns blue already in April, indicating positive long term momentum. Again, the system is blind to any data beyond May 2009.



So we don't have to wait 6 months to test the system, this is called forward testing. I can forward test on any index anytime with consistent result as there is no curve fitting element at all in my system.

HEALTHY SKEPTICISM
I am not interested in a system that predicts, just a system that can tell me what the trend is now.
I know that this is a paradigm shift for many, having a TA system that actually works and i can truely sympathize with the skepticism, maybe I have not seen enough but I myself have not seen any system like mine before this! There are just a few UTC who guide their clients with TA, but I don't know how their system works. It definitely took me hundreds of dollars (not ringgit) of books, 10 years, hundred of dollars of software to finally come with the understanding and the system. How it works? If I have some time to explain to you, you will see how it is simple, but that's my trade secrets.

BACK TO RIGHT NOW AGAIN
Forget about the stuff I said about forwrad testing if you think I am not being upright here. I have shown how the system would have done in the PAST and I have shown NOW. That is much more already than what the so called "experts" are doing. Again, right now, we are in an uptrend, not at the bottom, definitely not at the top. Some may say that this is easy to say, but is it? I still hear a lot of people are still scared to go into the market now. And I sure don't hear people screaming "we are in a bull run now, get in..get in..before it's too late" We will only hear about it when it's too late actually. So basically I am saying what many are not saying, we are in a bull run. Feel free to judge me on that now or whenever. The fact of the matter is many can't see the trend even if they are staring at it. That's the service I provide, answering the question you are asking, what about now. I can do this again and again and again...but of course it can't be free anymore.

I believe we think in a similar way, we want answer that almost every investor wants, what is the current trend? should I go in? should i hold? should I exit? This has taken a bit of my time. Anything more, feel free to email/PM me.



This post has been edited by buylowsellhigh: Oct 10 2010, 04:55 AM

Investors just want this short answer for any TA.
Then we can evaluate how good the system is, after commit in real life investing.
No point looking back to say how good the system is.
A system can be foolproof for years but can stumble with unpredictable market trend.

Forward testing is not reflecting the real situation out there, although you can key in many variable as we wish.
When the signal changing direction it may prompt you to sell, but the do you sell?
Also, signal can change within weeks as well due to unpredictable market movement.

I don't mean to criticise, just blindly believe any TA is always a bad practice. TA is the one to guide and give clue how the market trend. It doesn't predict the future market trend.

Also most TA is based on indices, and even index surge to all time high like KLCI to surpass 1500, it doesn't address still large portion of stocks especially 2nd liner stocks are underwater.
Unless one is trading in Index ETF, Index future, then the TA only applicable.

Also, index doesn't represent every stocks out there.

Anyone with some mathematical skill can always create different kind of TA by using historical data as reference to prove the validity of TA.
Just like we know the result of 2 x 3 = 6. So it is not difficult to create a system to find out the answer (?) of 2 x ? = 6. Because TA being created by looking back what had happend and based on pattern it showed.
Anyway, I don't mean to criticise about TA, as any TA is always good to give some indication. But blindly believe any system is always a bad practice to start with (other may disagree or not, never mind, just my pov which I would like to highlight)

This issue is a bit OT with this topic, so I think better post this kind of issue elsewhere.

Cheers.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Oct 10 2010, 10:33 AM

The discuss of applying TA into investment is off topic from personal financial managment. Any further discussion about TA should be in other thread, not here.

When people ask about how to efficiently utilise the spare cash on hand, so we could suggest few asset classes such as securities, properties, unit trusts/mutual funds and fixed deposit.

IMHO, I think those who is not savvy in financial knowledge, I'd recommend them to go for trust fund. Of course, picking a right trust fund is ultimate to grow your fund, and who is the fund manager is the most important factor to be sucess in investing unit trust. Check the fund track record for up to 5 till 10 years.

Another factor we need to take into account while investing trust funds is the fees incurred. If the trust fund is to benchmark with certain index like KLCI Index, but the trust fund's return is equal or less than the benchmark, so after deducting the fees the return from the trust fund is indeed lower than the benchmark. Then it is recommended to buy index fund.

agree that this is not the place discuss TA, but since alredi started, I join in the fun too
regarding the one who started TA, if the system is as good as its claims, might as well play futures
however, his nickname does not seem to agree with charts presented, now go to new high, precaution is necessary unless play breakout
but a minor pullback, does create a safer buy low entry level

atm, agree with his assessment coz I advocate buy high, sell higher! but be ready when market turns, imo depends on the policy in us (nov2)
I personally invest in pbb growth fund, I DO not invest regularly, BUT I invest after pullback is confirmed & enter when there is a doji

http://www.publicmutual.com.my/application...erformance.aspx
http://www.publicmutual.com.my/application...erformance.aspx

from the above, ewm moves similar to klse, then can compare other etfs - use eyes & google to research on how to find them


s&p500 = spy, bolehland = ewm


spy vs VGSIX‎ Vanguard REIT Index Inv


spy vs VSMGX‎ Vanguard LifeStrategy Moderate Gr Inv


spy vs VWELX‎ Vanguard Wellington Inv


ewm vs WisdomTree Middle East Dividend (GULF)


ewm vs iShares MSCI Australia Index (EWA)


ewm vs Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF (VTI)


ewm vs Vanguard FTSE All-World ex-US ETF (VEU)


ewm vs Vanguard REIT Index ETF (VNQ)


ewm vs Vanguard Total Bond Market ETF (BND)


ewm vs CurrencyShares Japanese Yen Trust (FXY)


ewm vs Global X/InterBolsa FTSE Colombia 20 ETF (GXG)


ewm vs iShares Barclays 3-7 Year Treasury Bond (IEI)


ewm vs ProShares Ultra Silver (AGQ)


ewm vs Direxion Daily Real Estate Bull 3X Shrs (DRN)


seek & u shall find

I believe TA is not actually an Universal Tool that you can practise throughout the world.

If you are just a US investor , then TA could be quite close in the sense IF there is a big correction in Malaysia market, it does not have any impact on your US stocks by using TA.

However, on the reverse IF you spot some bullishness of some Malaysia stocks , but there happens to be a big DOW correction, most likely the bullish TA charts would be diminishing or turning into negative.

BTW, Malaysia is quite a small market, even the sharks ( manipulators ) would be able to create a Bullish Chart with the purpose of dumping their stocks. IF TA analysts shout for bullishness of a stock, maybe time for you to take profit, or on a stand by to sell out.

Frankly I also wonder anyone is making good money by using purely TA on Malaysia Future Market ?

Again , Dow is also impacted by the unemployment reports ?

So TA is not actually standing alone, correct me if I am wrong.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Oct 10 2010, 05:43 PM

I'm not sure how TA works nor I interested to know about TA. I'm also investing currently but I don't rely on TA. I'm more tend to buy and hold for long term and my investing strategy is value investing. Since I'm buying for long term, I don't think TA will work for my style. Please take note that the world 2nd richest man Warren Buffet is the only genuine investor in the top 2 richest (he could be now or in the future to be out of 10 most richest since he is donating most of his wealth), but he does not depend on TA at all. He follows Benjamin Graham's advice strictly as Graham had once said "Investing in a stockmarket is most intelligent it is most business like". If you are getting into a good business by spending RM20 mil and sell it the next day for RM22 mil and make a 10% profit, and it is indeed what technical analyst will prompt to do so. But I believe if Warrent Buffet works in this way by selling 10% profit each time within short term period, I don't think he would be as what he is today.

Since it's the thread for those who have questions on how to utilise their cash instead of putting into FD, apparently most of them are beginners in financial world so we should give recommendation or suggestion to be simple and neutral. Don't have to say TA or FA or whatever other investing methods is more good for doing investment.

Moreover, the discussion about the what so-called TA or FA doesn't seems match the topic in this thread. Thus I think it's appropriate to move those TA discussion to those investment thread.

This post has been edited by kinwing: Oct 10 2010, 05:56 PM

I have read up on value investing, wb & FA stuff. but is graham as rich as wb?
more likely wb was at the right place & at the right time, something like li ka shing
otherwise, all of graham followers occupy the forbes top 100 rich list

do u even follow wb method 100% or r u just cherry picking?
furthermore, y dun u just follow what he buys & maybe can be the top 2 richest also
instead of reinventing the wheel & putting wb concept into bolehland context, it does save the work & hassle just to follow wb

doesn't want to set aside the collateral, and wants existing derivatives contracts to be exempted from the rules.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Inves...px?post=1747221

he states that his favorite holding period is forever
http://www.fool.com/investing/value/2010/0...fett-sells.aspx

wb does buy & sell, he does not keep EVERYTHING long term, remember ptr?
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Warren-Buffe...104421.html?x=0

anyway, I not here to start a topic on criticizing wb! just that some of his followers r hypocrites, only follow certain things abt wb & not follow in full
I do not take things at face value after staying in bolehland for so long. if govt says vote bn is good for rakyat, do u do / dun agree?
I read those anti wb to get a better perspective on investment & trading, which leads me to TA & etc

for bolehland, I just buy & hold those 1st liner & good track record unit trust. I dun trade much in bolehland
there are topics on securities, properties, unit trusts/mutual funds and fixed deposit, if someone would just use the search function
well, u can help those newbies out by showing them the way how u tackle this topic & get this topic back in track

I didn't realise how hot this topic can be. How did we get sidetrack into TA huh? hehe..

Anyway, not to say whose right and wrong, just to sum it up, when it comes to personal financial management, different people have different knowledge, experience, perception, style, personality, etc. I guess what is right for someone may not be right for others. And it shows in this thread. There are some basic principles that applies to all but the approcah can still vary.

Some prefer Fundamental Analysis, some Technical Analysis, it is indeed part of financial management. And I guess there are very few who have spent years and years trying both and are qualified to judge both. I am definitely not one of those, so I reserve any criticism on Fundamental Analysis.

I guess I was seen as coming off too strong initially, such that it triggered quite some reaction, my apology. At the same time, ithe discussion has given me some important points I need for my presentation, thank you.
I welcome further enquiry as some of you have done through emails or even open minded discussion. I do appreciate that.

I look forward to participate in more open minded discussion.

As I noticed someone is trying to over-emphasis on TA, so I brought Warren Buffet as one of the FA type to neutralise the investment style. Whether anyone should have agreed how Warren Buffet works his way out base on Graham's theories or any other investment guru such as philip fisher, it is always up to them to find out the topics instead of some one is trying to sell something too hard over here.

---

Added on October 11, 2010, 12:46 amI'm not sure if the discussion is leading to a genuine one. I always noticed some one who is promoting something too hard in the forum (not only this forum, any other forums that I been also caught in this kind of promotion).

For example when one is promoting TA analysis, and some forumers who are interesting would post more queries and they would be told to PM or email. Then the forumers would be told in the PM or email to buy a TA software with a cost of few thousand Ringgit. Or those who are interested about the timing strategy and they are led to the direction that it is a good timing to buy. When the forumers ask what to buy since it is good time to buy, they were told "buy Public XXX Fund lah, PM I will help you this". Don't you smell something fishy over here?

This post has been edited by kinwing: Oct 11 2010, 12:46 AM

looks like you are on a 5-digit monthly income.
be more adventurous and go for some high risk investment. higher the risk, higher the returns

Hi Im a Diploma student from KDU, just graduated and now working as a chef in restaurant.I am earning about 1300+ after all the deduction of SOCSO and others, the problem with me is that I hardly keep track on my bank account because I know every time I go to atm i know there's money.In my line, I hardly go out lepak with my friends due to my working hour (3pm-1am)...feeling not satisfy i will always buy myself beers as reward for myself, and also spend a lot on my gf and also stuff like computer thingy. Its really hard for me to save.

U know ur problem then what advise u expect from us? Just change ur spending habit or have zero saving.

cut down the beer, spend lesser on gf will do

I will advise you to cut down the beer expenses,coz beer price in M'sia is really high.
You can save a lot.

So,what course u study in KDU ? have you made study loans when you studied ?
You need to do financial management wisely.

Try to invest your earning to get more earning for you ....

btw, do you ever read the inflation killer article from insurance and financial review site? click on link to get the full detail.

it works for me great tips from there

alright thanks a lot for most of the advice!

---

Added on October 15, 2010, 3:45 amoh ya my dad is calling me to open one gold account,so im wondering whether its worth it anot, after what i red on the inflation killer i think its good cuz i can see the gold's value is going up.

This post has been edited by anthonywongy: Oct 15 2010, 03:45 AM

2 ways of conventional savings method when pay day comes:-

a) spend 1st.. then whatever left in payroll account are my savings
b) set aside an amount (it can be as little as RM100) on pay day... then spend whatever left.. even spend all also nvm, at least RM100 sudah saved.

80% of employees adopt method (a) .. this will NEVER work!! After 10 years, your bank account will still be ZERO.. TRUST me....

Bro, do yourself and your family a favour, go adopt savings method (b) ..... go sign up a forced savings plan... if dunno how, then PM me

nemoexcel,

Come on...

Option (b) is called "Pay Yourself First". Anyone can Google and find out more information on this method??

PM you??

It is VERY SIMPLE. Setup auto-deduction of certain percentage of your pay check to an A/C that you have NO ATM card and on a bank that is VERY INCONVENIENT for you to get to and withdraw money.

Dreamer

on the bolded sentence, is this indirectly promoting saving investment?

b = pay yourself first !!!

u moron, go study proper english b4 pulling your gun !! If i were to promote, would i suggest him to "GO SIGN UP a forced savings plan??" ... I work with a bank for the past 15 years, thus providing sensitive/insider info on reducing my bank's profit shld not be done in open forum!! .. hence, PM ... but to think of it, ppl like u dont deserve my knowledge

My my, what rude words. You are asking him to PM you, if you are not promoting, just write the info you wish to help in the forum for the benefit of all. And also you are implying you work in a bank, and by giving some information on the so called savings plan, you can affect your bank's profitability? Most bank/insurance post details of such plans on their website, what is so secret about it? In fact most banks/insurance have better profit selling savings plans than deposits. I pity the bank that hire you.

This post has been edited by gark: Oct 17 2010, 02:58 PM

Without understanding of individual financial situation, recommend a forced insurance saving plan or insurance endowment plan, is not a right way to do.

Those so called "forced saving plan", you cannot get money out from it even you have emergence usage.
You will lose a lot of money if you pre-mature cancel/withdraw the money.

You will "die" because of no cash during emergency or period you really need the cash time.
Those "forced insurance saving plan" is not going to help you a single cent, in those situation.

The initially starting point of "forced saving" should go to FD/saving account, and not to insurance saving plan.
Insurance saving plan is a long term commitment, and shouldn't be commit if one is not ready for it.

There is no such thing as " Forced Savings Plan" under the BNM guidelines.

Any Distortions could lead to some prosecutions or fine by BNM.

It does not mean one who is well versed with English can overwrite BNM rulings.

Yes, normally promoted by people deal with some forms of insurance.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Oct 17 2010, 04:54 PM

Wow, insurance forced saving plan, got a lot of sensitive or insider info, this is first time I heard it. I am noob.
So must secretive one!

Wah, banks really scare people to withdraw money a few hundred or a couple of thousand from bank account to commit into saving plan which can affect their profit big time!

So far I know,
Banks got its own insurance subsidiary company. :
Even banks do get commission from selling third party or associated company insurance.

Hi there....wah never know there so many sifu who can help me invest in lyn...

Anyway, here goes my story..
Im 20years old....currently doin my 2nd year in deg in Mechnical Engineering...will complete and start working in 3years time...currently im just doin small scale partime buy n sell trading ( computers related item) roughly permonth i can earn up to rm2.5k maximum ...depends on my sales and profit i gain..

My expense permonth....
Car loan>>> rm700 (left balance rm 3.8k)
monthly expenses eat, play, basic needs>>RM450
Phone bill>>>> rm100
studies>>>>rm200
My Gf >>>>rm600 need support her too.. as we are both same age and still studying ....
Sumtimes unexpected expenses like bike or car repair...>>>rm300

i do hav some saving not much...less then 10k...

SO GUYS..........PLSSSSS help me figure out how i can save? AND how i can invest?? As im planning to settle by the age of 30

This post has been edited by hddglobal: Oct 17 2010, 06:11 PM

oh well, is that how a 15 years experience banker handle their customer, the bank must be very "fortunate" to have such a staff

i don't need such plan because i can manage my money well, no need to sign up saving plan bla bla bla to force me saving, many forumers had mentioned how bad is the saving plan could be, u cannot withdraw the money immediately since it subject to term and condition

2 ways -

1. put saving into FD ...
2. find more money

Folks,

If someone borrowed money at 6% per year and then put in the money investment that ONLY pay 3% per year, the person is GUARANTEED to lose 3% per year. Now, isn't that a LOUSY INVESTMENT??

Similarly, if person is borrowing money at 6%, why would a person used that money to INVEST on something that only pay 6% per year?? Won't any investment has to have return a lot more than 6% in order to be worthwhile?? Especially, if it is NOT a risk free return.

Many people has a housing loan that costs 6% per year. They could have prepay a portion of the loan and save 6% per year. But, they INVEST on stuff that GUARANTEED to pay them ONLY 3% per year. They MAKE SURE that they LOSE 3% per year. How smart is that??

Dreamer

emergency money is very very very important....cant stress it more..

This post has been edited by ah_suknat: Oct 19 2010, 08:54 AM

ah_suknat,

FD is not for investment. It is for EMERGENCY FUND.

I am TALKING about stuff cannot be used for EMERGENCY FUND aka INVESTMENT.

There are ONLY 2 kind of money:

A) Emergency fund

B) Investment

(A) has to be liquid aka can be used at ANY time. Anything else is an investment.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Oct 19 2010, 08:57 AM

I wouldn't suggest FD , should invest in mutual fund or something similiar .

Else the inflation will kill your money.

Blindly investing in whatever without any knowledge would kill your money even faster. Generic blanket statements are never the answer. Risk vs reward is always there.

if u wait until property bubble to burst then u need to wait very very longgggggggg...time.
while waiting u will loose many opportunities.

---

Added on October 19, 2010, 2:55 pmMost of the Housing loan is BLR - x%, say BLR - 2%, which is 4.3%p.a., ASM/ASW2020/ASD pay 6.3% at lease, why u think it is viable to pay more in your housing loan instead of saving in PNB products???? I have a friend have a hse worth 600K, her outstanding mortgage loan balance of RM140K, she refinance her hse with 90% MOF, she get 540K financing from the bank, the additional money of 400K (540K minus 140K), she dump in ASW2020, just earn the interest difference of 2% ( ASW2020 return of 6.3% minus the mortgage interest of 4.3%p.a)

FYI, Mortgage is the cheapest loan that available in the market.

This post has been edited by cheahcw2003: Oct 19 2010, 02:55 PM

Hi all,

I am a 23 years old degree graduate and currently employed by a bank for around 2 years with a basic salary of RM3k per month (previously RM2.8k) and still living with my parents which they take care of all the household expenses.

My rough estimate of my monthly expenses are :-

Travelling expenses (fuel and tolls) = RM300
Season pass for car park = RM100
Spending on girlfriend and with friends = RM550
Saving put aside (just started recently) = RM400~RM500
Hobby = RM300
Lunch/dinner = RM500
Entertainment = RM250

Misc personal debt = ~RM1500 (loan instalment and handphone bills).

No personal insurance (borne by my mother) nor car loan (fully financed).

Although I am being prudent and giving the higher side of the estimates, I usually have nothing left near the end of the month, given that there is also the deduction for EPF.

I believe I can cut loose and reduce my expenditures and I am looking to invest my money.

At the moment, I have been reading about stock tradings and partially researching on underdevelopment properties.

While I am still looking out for the right property to invest long term in, I was thinking about doing some other form of investment and what came to my mind was stock trading.

Would some kind forummers help out in suggesting or advising how to invest my money ?

if u cut down on spending on gf, hobby and entertainment, you can save more. it looks like you have quite an expensive lifestyle.

Based on your current expenses and living style,it's better that you try to figure out how to reduce the expenses than how to do investments.
I so wish my parents can pay my insurance and my cars as well.

learn how to cut down your expenses instead of asking people for advise
did u know where did u got your money to invest while u don't have any saving?

he doesn't ask how to invest his money ...

his problem is he spend all the money and hard to make saving ...

so put into FD is a better way for his problem now but to earn more money and counter inflation is his own finding already ...

This post has been edited by Ken: Oct 20 2010, 09:13 AM

To the three replies above, my point in this thread is seeking for advices on what instruments to invest my money in and not on how to reduce expenditure.
I have control over my finances despite my high expenditure as posted. The info above is referring to expenditure on really happy go lucky months where I go and spend without much consideration since I have already put aside my targeted savings per month.
And I know it is not good and contributing to my future, hence I want to put them into something more productive

So lets say that I am able to cut expenditure and able to put aside RM1,000 or RM1,500, I need suggestions on where to put this money in instead of a simple savings account which generates nothing in the end.

It is save to say that I will be able to cut back on expense of such amounts because I have done it before because I wanted to see if I am able to commit to monthly housing loan repayments. I am still looking for my desired property to invest in, so I have this kind of surplus for some time being.

Yes, Ken. That is what I am seeking all of your help about. Not to save but how to invest my extra allocated money in.
Can I still go for this ASN or ASM or are they already fully taken up already ?


Thanks everyone for your replies.

Agree wif zenwell, try to reduce ur expensive lifestyle. Save first enjoy later or u wanna enjoy first suffer later.

Like I said, earlier, my expensive lifestyle is totally adjustable.

I only need investment advices, not saving advices.

huhuhu nice 1 bro....

RedShirt,

1) Would you borrowed money at 7% in order to earn 5%?? Hence, losing 2% continuously??

You have LOAN PAYMENT. What is the interest rate?? If it is high enough and you can prepay without penalty, paying off the loan would be the best investment.

2) The STANDARD personal finance advices are

A) You need to save 10% to 15% of your gross income in order to financially survive

B) Until you have 3 to 6 months of YOUR EXPENSE saved up in EMERGENCY FUND, you DO NOT INVEST.

Have you satisfy condition 2 (A) and 2 (B)??

Dreamer

If you post in this thread, you will keep on getting saving advices, even when that's not what you want. Simply because this is a savings thread.

On the other hand, there isn't a thread on what is the best investment because there isn't one. Something to do with one man's food is another man's poison.

So you have to look through the existing investment threads and find one (or more) to post your next set of questions specific to those threads.

1) The loan mentioned above is a credit card payment which I have put on 0% interest monthly installments, which anyways, is fully repaid by end of November.

2A) Yeah, I have this.
2B) My expenses, huh ? This, unfortunately, is something that I do not have yet, as I like to be prudent and be on the safe side (I'd take the calculation of 6 months).


Well, by personal financial management and by what I said about investments, I thought that it would be a discussion on how to financially manage your savings/wealth so that you do not in the end, allow your savings/wealth to be eroded by factors such as inflation when you just dump it in a vanilla savings account, which defeats the purpose of managing anything to begin with.

And if you're saying that this thread's purpose is to tell someone to cut expenses and spendings alone, then you're right and I am sorry, this is probably the wrong thread to post in from the beginning.
My purpose was for someone who going through the same phase as I am, being in the early/mid twenties or those who have gone through my phase, to advise me on planning for some financial management for the savings that I have or that I will accumulate in due time for strategic purpose.

I do not have much obligations at the time being and I would like to maximize whatever I can instead of letting it sit in my vanilla savings account.

This post has been edited by RedShirt: Oct 21 2010, 12:47 PM

I currently 23 going 24, and going to start working soon with basic salary of 2600RM in KL. I already own two decent car loan free , and have around 80k units in ASM/AS1M with some FD. Should i continue keep my money with PNB or down payment for an apartment and rent it out later on ? If so, with my current salary range, how much of loan i can roughly get ?

This post has been edited by Cyclone87: Oct 21 2010, 03:52 PM

For investment part, we only talk about the investment method, aka the particular investment product issue discussion (like stock, properties, UT or whatever, which there are specific topic around which can join in the discussion ).
There is never a issue like, ok, I have saved 50K, I should invest in stock or properties, or which. There is no answer and pointless discussion if in this way.
That's why you see little discussion on this.

It is individual preference, choice of risk exposure. Nobody can advise on it.
It is same with the question what dinner should I take today. Only you knows.
Any investment may potential yield losses, instead of gain.

Some may prudent in spending and save a lot in FD, while he/she doesn't even know what is stock market about. So money sitting in FD is "right" for him/her.
Nothing wrong. There are many old generation people just prudent in saving and keep the money in FD, in the end of day save a couple of hundred thousand for their kids overseas study.

While another person may more adventurous invest in derivatives market, as long as the person is understanding the risk being taken, then it is fine.

Which is better? There is no answer of which is better than the other.

Financial management is about how to manage the available money, while investment part is about individual preference.

---

Added on October 21, 2010, 4:40 pmFor investment part, we only talk about the investment method, aka the particular investment product issue discussion (like stock, properties, UT or whatever, which there are specific topic around which can join in the discussion ).
There is never a issue like, ok, I have saved 50K, I should invest in stock or properties, or which. There is no answer and pointless discussion if in this way.
That's why you see little discussion on this.
It is irresponsible to put a recommendation for others, like hey, bro, you should invest in UT or stocks.

It is individual preference, choice of risk exposure. Nobody can advise on it.
It is same with the question what dinner should I take today. Only you knows.
Any investment may potential yield losses, instead of gain.

Some may prudent in spending and save a lot in FD, while he/she doesn't even know what is stock market about. So money sitting in FD is "right" for him/her.
Nothing wrong. There are many old generation people just prudent in saving and keep the money in FD, in the end of day save a couple of hundred thousand for their kids overseas study.

While another person may more adventurous invest in derivatives market, as long as the person is understanding the risk being taken, then it is fine.

Which is better? There is no answer of which is better than the other.

Financial management is about how to manage the available money, while investment part is about individual preference.


This post has been edited by cherroy: Oct 21 2010, 04:40 PM

hi guys,

I am working in one MNC for over 1 year already. I have just got my increment this month. My new salary is RM 3.2k without deducting the EPF, tax and SOCSO (previously is RM 2.7k) so after deduct all those stuff should be rm 2.9k like that.

Here is my breakdown of my expenses for each month.

Food - RM 600 (eat with gf and friends)
Offering to church - RM 320
Utility bills - RM 400 (maybe more a little bit sometimes)
Petrol - RM 300
Toll - RM 50 (estimation only)
Entertainment - RM 200


Total is RM 1870.

I can save around RM 1000 per month. Is it consider good enough or should i cut other expenses now?

Please share your thoughts.

After deducting tax, EPF and Socso, should be about 2.4K-2.7K left. I can say if you can save RM1K per month I really . Until now I'm saving way less than that
Anyway, good to see that you give offering to church as well Keep it up


This post has been edited by jasontoh: Oct 21 2010, 05:05 PM

you can save around 30% of your salary..your doing good...