Welcome to the new Insurance discussion thread Version 5.00

Created Date: 23rd Dec 2018

If you have any questions on insurance, just ask the experts in this thread!

>> Link to the previous Insurance Thread V4 <<

The Top 20 Thread Contributors in Insurance Talk V4
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ngks 31
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This post has been edited by roystevenung: Dec 23 2018, 01:44 AM

Congrats on new thread 😎

Yay, welcome all to ask questions

thank you guys/girls for posting informative and useful replies and keeping this channel open for more information clarification and sharing.....

wah I see my name

how much stand alone medi card for kids?
7 years old boy and
4 years old girl

about 100/mth each

Lately I bought the aia a-life cancer360 but I found there are incorrect answers on the self declaration in the form I.e. is any of your immediate family had cancer and have you performed medical checkup last year. Both are yes but my agent just helped me tick no. I whatsapp him and also submitted the question in aia portal but they never reply me. This makes me worry because in the policy there is clause to reject claim should I lie in the self declaration. So the question is will it affect my claim since I already informed them but they just ignore my questions?

My recommendation is that you follow up with them via FB or walk in to their branch to clarify.

Best,
Jiansheng

you will need to submit a form to inform AIA that you would like to correct the answer that you gave wrongly and get agent to submit in the form


Thanks

from RM155/month for both of the kids

Wow, finally v5 this insurance talk, please come more question and answer...

Dear sifus, I have looked at both Prudential and AIA policies that have been generated for me. I would like to know your opinion(s) on both of these policies:

27F non-smoker Class 1 (50% responsibility of breadwinner)

Prudential - Plan Type: Regular Premium ILI
PRUwith you - SA RM100k : Premium RM 250
Crisis Care - Sum Assured RM100k
Acci Guard Plus - SA RM100k
Acci Med Plus - - SA RM5k

Pruvalue med:
- R&B - 200 (Deductible: RM300)
- Med Value Point: 1.5 mil
- Med Saver: 300

Payor Basic: 3k p.a

Insurance Premium: RM250 (A)
Investment Premium: RM0 (B)
Total Premium: RM250 (A+B)

AIA - Plan Type: ILI Plan
Basic Plan
A-LifeLink 2 - SA RM100k : Premium RM 200
A-Plus Saver : Premium RM 75

Riders
A-Plus DisabilityCare - SA RM100k
A-Plus Health - Plan 200 (Deductible: RM300) : Unit Deducting
A-Plus Multi CriticalCare - SA RM100k : Unit Deducting
A-Plus Early CriticalCare - SA RM50k : Unit Deducting
A-Plus WaiverExtra @70 - RM3.3k p.a : Unit Deducting

Total Monthly Premium: RM275
Total Annual Premium: RM3.3k

Thanks

This post has been edited by fizzx: Dec 26 2018, 11:25 PM

Hey Fizzx, first off I would like to say your listing of the the insurance coverage have to be one of the most detailed I've seen on this thread and that's a good thing 🤓.

I'm Jiansheng by the way.

Ok, let's get right to it. Base on your question I would assume the agents have explained the benefits and T&C of the riders and you're just asking an opinion on the overall design of the plan?

Right off the bat between the two plans these are the differences:
- Personal Accident (PA) coverage
- Critical Illness (CI) coverage

As I can see, the Prudential agent has included a PA and 36 CI whereas the AIA agent did not include a PA but the CI coverage for AIA is wider (Early - Advance stage).

You also mentioned that you're 50% of the breadwinner hence another area that I highly recommend you look at is the sum assured for Life/TPD and CI. Are the sum assured listed above sufficient?

Best,
Jiansheng

This post has been edited by Holocene: Dec 27 2018, 08:39 AM

Hi Jiansheng, thanks for the reply!

Yes, you're right. Both agents have explained the benefits and T&C.

Do you reckon I should drop A-Plus DisabilityCare - SA RM100k for now and add on Personal Accident - SA RM100k? I would like to keep the premium as low as possible as I have other commitments. I may add the A-Plus DisabilityCare in future. What do you think?


It's sufficient for now and I plan to gradually increase it over time.

Hi agents,

I currently have a plan with Prudential.
Both medical and life.

Would like to explore other products.
In PJ, can contact me to further discuss.

That depends on your priority in coverage and your availability of your budget.

I would maximize more on life since you're a breadwinner


What product are you looking into?

1. a little note on Prudential plan, you can ask agent to quote you the latest PRUmillion med. Insurance charges is cheaper.
2. as for life insurance, perhaps you can roughly estimate that it can cover whatever outstanding loans/debts and also provide family for x years (depends on your family members' dependancy). and also if you have any child, you might wanna look into whether you want the life insurance to provide for child's education.
3. for critical illness, you estimate whether how much amount you need to cover at least 3 years (best if 5 years) for transition period.

only wanna look into Prudential? basically it is either life insurance or medical insurance. or you want targeted specific products like cancer care products, 36 critical illnesses products.

This post has been edited by ckdenion: Dec 27 2018, 07:10 PM

My sister encountered high fever when she was a child and since then, she becomes abnormal and cant think like normal person.

Self-discipline = OK, just below normal person, like a child. You need to tell her properly and she can follow the instruction.

Education level = Standard 6


Thinking level = Like a child, but she is able to debate on whatever points you told her....

Can I buy life and medical insurance for her?

This post has been edited by jack2: Dec 28 2018, 10:30 AM

she'll need to go through some medical examination by the panel insurance clinic or a specialist report is required to ascertain what she is suffering from otherwise it will be hard for the insurance company to grant any sort of insurance to her.

Panels that recommended by the insurance companies?

I can bring her to do examination.

You will first need to fill up the application form and wait for the insurance company to call for an examination, if you have a recent report from the specialist, that would help as well.

HI im with Prudential.

Recently i met a prospect and he's telling me about how Allianz similar plans are less expensive by a margin.

Anyone can enlighten me bout allianz and how come they are much more affordable

Rgrds
Nigel

Really? Then can try

You can ask Allianz agent to share in here but I doubt they will do so

Well it’s certainly not because we don’t focus on cash value as mentioned here. You can look at Insurance Thread V4 post 2613 - 2616 where I have “shared” with our fellow colleague on that matter.



Perhaps you’ll have a better discussion with your prospect if he can list out the benefits that the Allianz agent has proposed to him and compare against yours. As I know, our products are quite different from yours so I was surprised when you mentioned that he said it’s similar

Get more informations from your prospect about his Allianz proposal and I’ll help you understand the premium which was quoted to him.

Best,
Jiansheng

Better to compare side by side for its benefits and insurance charges. Generally speaking, charges wise wont be significant difference. Main difference is policy sustainability given with the difference of premium needed for its benefits.

Submit and apply for the insurance plan first, company will release query letter to tell you what need to do then from there you proceed with what is needed to do. It is easier that way.

Hi, i am 25 yrs old, male, non smoker, started career 2 yrs ago. What kind of insurance is suitable for me? Need medical card for emergency case if happened. Thanks for enlighten.

Hey KKLeong,

Great to hear that you’re looking into getting yourself insured

As to what kind of insurance is suitable for you, you are on the right track thinking about a medical card. Here are a few more suggestion for you to consider:

- Life/TPD
- Critical Illness
- Personal Accident

Best,
Jiansheng

I would say get an all rounder policy for a starter depending on your budget

You may get an investment link policy with the attachment of
Death and disability coverage
Medical card
Waiver of premium

And if you got some extras, can put in some critical illness otherwise get more for death and disability first

At least you know you need medical card for emergency case.

Medical Card > Personal Accident > Critical Illness > TPD & Life Insurance (Priority is still based on what is the area that concerns you the most)

But, i could not efford high amount of premium monthly. 300 is the max tht i can afford for months payment. My fix commitment plus monthly expenses alrdy 2k. Since single still can coupe wif it.

300 monthly is enough to get very decent coverage for your age. Around 250 is the median average

RM300/month is consider a good amount to start with to have all basic coverage. at least can get medical card with at least a million annual limit, and perhaps a 100k for life insurance and critical illness.

how often you guys review and upgrade your medical policy? normally you upgrade from the same insurance company? or switch to another service provider? any pro and cons?

Every 2 - 3 years, the most you can drag is probably 5 years before a new plan comes out into the market.

Depends on your preference on the insurance company that you want to take up with.

No specific pros and cons, the products are more or less the same with a little tweak here and there

probably 2-3 years to review once with your agent. I would suggest upgrade from the same company to save on the allocation portion. if u switch to another provider then u have to start the 6 years com again.

Hi, any prudential agent here?

I got a quotation from an prudential agent about PRUvalue med just now.
I am thinking to get this plan for my father (49 yo/smoker/occupation class 3) with 20k deductible, board rate 100.

Life insurance: 20k (I don't need this, but the agent says must buy).
Premium: RM 160

According to the calculation given by the agent the plan can sustain until 76 yo, but i can top up if i want to extend the coverage.


Questions:
1. Is it correct that i must buy the life insurance to buy PRUvalue? I don't need this.
2. One thing i noticed is that the agent can adjust the premium, the only thing changed is how long the plan can last. Does it mean that i can pay a minimum amount initially, and top up accordingly as i got more money in the future?
3. Since i am buying the plan for my father, in which i will be the one paying. Am i eligible for tax relief?

1. This is an investment link policy thus there must be some life insurance attachment to it, if you’re solely looking into medical coverage alone then get a standalone medical card which is cheaper.

2. Yes you’re right, pay less now and top up later or pay more now and chances to require top up in the future is lesser.

3. You may need to check with LHDN on this matter.

Thanks a lot

Hi,

May I know what are the few reliable fire insurance plan for Shop (cover building and stock for ground floor and 1st floor) and household (terrace house)?

Thank you.

1. Age next Birthday 50, RM20k deductible, R/B 100, premium RM100/mth

Min Life Insurance can go down till RM10K,

Projected sustainability high -> 78, low -> 73

2. Yes you may top up for the plan sustainability whenever you are able to.

3. No, you can't. For the Life Insurance Tax Relief (epf+life insurance), it is only able for tax relief for yourself and spouse. No parent.

For the medical/education insurance tax relief (RM3K) is for yourself, spouse and/or children. No parent

Obviously the above refers to 2017 tax relief. It should be the same for 2018 except that life insurance and epf has been separated as announced by LGE.

This post has been edited by roystevenung: Jan 4 2019, 12:29 AM

Hi, want to ask experts here

can a son use his credit card to pay for his mother's policy?

mother is working professional, got active income
son wants to pay for his mom out of goodwill (filial piety)

is it need to change policy owner to the son?

but can a son be policy owner of his mom's policy?

birth cert is required too right? to prove son-mother relationship

You can, just charge to the son's card

not sure about other company practices

Hi, if I want to change insurance plan to another company, should I terminate the current plan first before buying with another company,

or buy the new plan then only terminate the old plan?

Second option. Make sure you're pass all the waiting period and understand any exposure you might have before making a cancellation.

Best,
Jiansheng

replied in blue

just fill up the form to change to son's credit card number will do.

if you have the intention to change already and want to terminate the old plan, make sure the new plan is inforced first and make sure all waiting period from the new plan is over then only terminate the old plan.

No I would not suggest you to terminate your previous insurance policy first before securing the new policy. Should there be any claims in between, you're not covered for any claims if the policy is cancelled before the new one is inforced.

Thanks for your quick replies!

Hi,

What is the monthly/yearly commitment for pure life insurance with sum assured of 600k? Prospect is male 35 yo and non smoker.

Hi nakedtruth, assume you want to go minimal premium, 600k pure life insurance is RM250/month with policy sustainability up to 64~68 years old. you can also let us know you want the 600k coverage until what age then from there premium needs to be adjusted again.

Pure life insurance as in term insurance without investment?

As far as I know, the son cannot use his credit card to pay for his mothers policy.

As a rule of thumb,
Parents insuring their children - Okay.
Children insuring their parents - Not okay.
Spouse insuring each other - Okay.
Boy/Girlfriend insuring each other - Not okay.
Company insuring employees - Okay
Colleagues insuring each other - Not okay.
etc.

No, the son cannot use his credit card to pay for his mothers policy.
No, the mother's policy owner cannot be the son.

What the son CAN do, is to up the monthly allowance to the mother.
Buy flowers for the mother. <<< A very good thing to do.
Take her on a trip / cook a meal for her.

Professional answer
Just what the industry needs

I believe a lot of agents (friends around you, your agent, just about any agent) have the same answer.
Just that I happen to see your question and hence responded to it.
Thanks to BNM, LIAM, PIAM, and all relevant institutions upping the requirements across the industry, you can actually go to any career agent (including agents on this forum) these days and get good, professional services and advice.
Even better if you have a friend or family member in the industry. Support mah.

Yes there is.
What is the nature of business for the shop?

Different insurers have their focus areas but normal retail outlets and/or restaurants and offices are pretty standard.

Hi, thanks for your reply.

The company is doing service car air conditioning and selling car care products like engine oil, lubricants, car battery, remote battery, car plate number, car player, car bulb, etc. We do not own a workshop. Just typical shop where customer park their car in the parking lots then we help them to do service air cond but not service car (changing motor oil, etc).

We keep our stock for sell in ground floor and upper floor is to keep excess stock. It is located in normal shop lot but not commercial shop.

Can you let me know the insurance plan and estimate premium and coverage?

Yes. Is to replace mrta/mlta purpose.

Me and my siblings are paying for our parents insurance using one of my sibling cc, no issue at all. Better go to check with your insurance provider agent.

That is on the high side? Is it pure life insurance only? Coz this is to replace mrta/mlta.

If you mean sustainability 64-68 is on the low side. Anyone else care to explain 'sustainability in layman term'?

600k i believe is pure life only. You can add additional critical illness on top of it however you like.


Rgrds
Nigel

In this situation, sustainability means you can continue paying RM250/month for RM600k coverage until you are 64 - 68 years old. After that, you might need to pay additional amount to maintain the protection.

Best,
Jiansheng

when it comes to investment link, it means your policy will lapse at the age of 64 - 68 once there is no more money in your account value, which means ur policy will cease if you don't do top up premium payment on top of what you're paying at that moment,

low side - up till 64 y/o
high side - up till 68 y/o

* estimation only.

the plan is a life insurance that covers death and TPD benefit only. i thought your MRTA/MLTA is supposed to be pure life insurance also? care to tell us more?

Any medical card provider that can claim outpatient?

My cousin currently wanted to buy an insurance. Already having SSPN-I from takalful, 20k D, TPD, up to 64 y.o.

So he went and ask one from etiqa.
25, male, non smoker, student
insured 500000, rider crit ill 300000.
Annual 3100 myr.

sustainability option chosen 30 years. policy term 75 years.

he wish to get pure term insurance only. But since the investment linked insurance able to let him get back some premium at the option chosen year, he consider on taking it.
any thought?

Question-
when can we actually wish to review the policy and make a change? does the change cost extra?

any input is appreciated.

yes, most of the insurance provider do provide claim for outpatient

for long term less hassle, the investment link policy will be better otherwise you need to manually manage your term insurance

the extra cost upon reviewing your old policy depends on the upgrade that you would like to include into the existing policy.

does that mean nowadays all the invest link are far better then term? because I trust my investment rather then the fund they given. the fund that they given (even for a very stable fund that give the same return as FD, have SC of 1%) have charges, most of the bond fund which may perform better then the fund provided (I revised the fact sheet and compare the chart to common bond fund in 3, 5, 10 years perf) and at no service charge. On the other hand, the equity fund provided often perform below par and having high service charges.

Get your agent to quote the lowest premium and tell him you do not care about sustainability and will match the additional premium as and when needed.

If you are confident with your own investment it's advisable to do so. 😉

Here's a tip check out the math involved with how COI are offset against the cash values and you'll understand my approach.

Best,
Jiansheng

if you're good with your investment, by all means, invest with your investment, however, most insurance policies comes as an investment link so it's hard for you to not invest at all with the insurance company.

Just treat the insurance money as your insurance cost, it's difficult for you to count the pennies that you're paying to insurance.

Look at the bigger picture

may I know what is

sustainability?
match the additional premium?
COI?
Cash value?

sustainability?
- how long can a policy last before it lapses (projection - non guaranteed)

COI?
- Cost of insurance - every insurance benefit has a cost price, the more you add, the more expensive it gets.

Cash value?
- the account value of your investment link which is your money in your insurance policy. Once it hits 0, it means there is no more money left in your account, if it shows RM90,000 then there is RM90,000 in the insurance policy which you can choose to take out or keep it in there.

1) Sustainability

- When it comes to investment linked plans (ILP), sustainability is an important topic as it basically means by when you will need to pay more premium than you currently do, if you want to maintain the protection.

It could be 10 years from now or 30 years from now. The scenario of your cousin of 30 years sustainability basically means based on the projection of the cash value of his policy he can continue paying the same premium he's paying now for the next 30 years. He might need to pay more out of his pocket after that. The key word here is "out of pocket".

2) match the additional premium

- Building on my answer from question 1, after 30 years assuming the cost to insure him is now RM5k instead of RM3.1k, if your cousin wants to maintain the coverage he will then need to pay RM5k instead of RM3.1k hence matching the additional premium of RM1.9k (out of pocket).

3) COI

- Cost of insurance. The insurance company cost to insure you.

4) Cash Value

- the "savings" or cash you have in the ILP.

So assuming you're a good cousin and help your cousin with his investments as you've done so for your ownself he can consider something like this:

Life/TPD: RM500k
CI : RM300k

Premium: RM1,500 annually (which can sustain him for 28 years base on the low scenario of 3%).

The difference of RM1,600 you can go invest in other investment/saving vehicles. You're definitely not counting pennies when RM1,600 accumulates over 28 years (RM44,800 not counting potential compounding interest).

Some food for thought 🤓

Best,
Jiansheng

Basic of financial planning 101.

I'm quite astounded when you tried to lure forummer to read about "compounding interest" to say the they're not counting pennies when they have to constantly spend their time to monitor how much they need to pay incremental per year to their life insurance policies.

Yes you're right to say that the small pennies will accumulate overtime, provided they are a savvy investor themselves to be able to do that. With the luxury of the time to manage it, time is a precious commodity, you don't see a rich person manage all their businesses and investment to the pennies, they hire and pay people to do that and utilize their human resources.

Yes, my example is equating on if you're a rich man and have a deal earning you RM100,000s, would you even bother with the RM10s ? Would they even bother spending the same time of an hour to get RM100k instead of the RM10 ?

That's the reason why services like unit trust, stock brokers, insurance company are out there to earn some money and get some automation, yes the return may not be a lot depending on the goal of the investment, but if that automation helps to reduce my time to manage something trivial, I don't see why I shouldn't spend my time for something else better that is my specialty.

Your logical answer may not be suitable for genuine investors who have huge portfolios or for the common folks who don't do much into investment.

Here's my thought for you.

🤔

*Deep in thought*

I am trying very hard to draft out a reply but you have finally got me this time. I have no reply for you and have to thank you for trying to entertain us by posting jokes but please keep it to a minimum as this is a serious thread and the Jokes Heaven thread is the other way.

1) Monitoring incremental life insurance premium:

- What I mentioned was the sustainability is projected to be 28 years hence your monitoring only comes in 28 years later. Even if it's 40 years, the policy owner will need to pay the increase in premium as long as they want to maintain the protection. If you are not aware, insurance companies including AIA do send out notice of premiums when they are due to avoid any lapse in policies because as you said "... Insurance companies are out to earn some money." How else would they earn if they don't collect premium?

- I also am quite astounded that you would think the client needs to monitor the incremental life insurance premium himself, isn't it your job as his agent to do so? Or is it your practice that once you no longer receive commissions from a client your duty as his agent stops there? 🤔

2) RM100,000 vs RM10

- Comparing RM100,000 and RM10 it makes sense to forgo the time spent to earn RM10 for RM100,000. In that context of course RM10 seems trivial.

- However in the reply to [Ancient-XinG-], it's about the premium of RM3,100 vs RM1,500 which provides the same coverage. That's a 50% difference, is that still trivial? Seems to me that you are taking things out of context just to prove your point. Are you? 🤔


Finally, I always do my best to ensure my answers are logical and makes financial sense for everyone before sharing them as this is a serious thread about Insurance on Lowyat Forum. I do apologise if I have missed out certain group of people that require illogical answers, BUT you are all welcome to ask questions and we can make sure you get the illogical answer you need. As we have always said, everyone's needs are different. 😃

Best,
Jiansheng

Can we not have another episode of ego battle here?

I think all can agree.

Again, just making sure we keep to the spirit of this thread 😀.

Best,
Jiansheng

Hi,

The high side referring the premium... sorry for the confusion. Yeah im looking for pure life insurance... based on the premium it seems mrta is lower. Need to consider it.

I didnt mean the sustainability on the high side. Is just that the premium is on the high side comparing to mrta... but mrta is pay lump sum park with the loan... the life insurance can pay monthly...

not just the monthly payment method, there are much more differences. Do refer to pic

hi guys,

need ur advice
for sebaceous Cyst removal
insurance provider say it's exclusion case
need to pay first and claim later
with a HPL report on the cyst

have anyone came through this before?
does it honor the claim?
if pay first , do u all know medical cost can be reduce by doctor?
some say using cash ,doctor can negotiable on the cost?

🤔

Actually my purpose of being in the Insurance thread is to assist Malaysians in understanding life insurance which we all know is not an easy subject to grasp.

As we know this is just a thread for discussion and it's up to the public to decide which direction they want to proceed.

Let's have a civilized discussion and keep this thread focus on what it was created for, to help Malaysians understand more about life insurance.

Best,
Jiansheng

For this case you need to get your insurance provider to clarify the reason for the exclusion. Only they can give you a definite answer as they have the relevant information of your application and coverage.

A client of mine had his done for less than RM10k and there was no exclusion upon admission. As for the cost, it depends on the hospital and also procedure. You can get your doctor to provide you with the estimated cost.

All the best with the surgery!

Best,
Jiansheng

It seems to me that the insurance company would like to investigate into the claim before they issue any payout for the claims, perhaps you can submit your appeal with the relevant receipts to the insurance company that is required and let them sort it out in their investigation.

As far as I know if you're hospitalized for that matter and never had any exclusion within your policy before, the claim should be honored by the insurance company.

My goodness, what a reply;

Don't try to act holy, calling me joke heaven in your replies first and now trying to act like a saint in here trying to talk sensible to the audience as if I am at fault when I didn't even put you down at all, giving you my thought since you asked for food for thoughts and that's when you tried to pick a fight, more over reporting my post because you got butthurt for calling you out, guess I pressed your buttons real bad when I caught you with your illogical advise in here.

I hope you don't twist and turn words in front of your customers to get policies.

First of all thanks for the clarification. Many jargon are being used in the reply thus I am asking question instead of taking things out of context just to prove my point. I re read my post and there isn't any.

Now I finally get the picture as a whole on what is the word "sustainability" that can affecting a life policy.

the question of 3100 vs 1500, however, I still cant figure it out based on the scenario you given. Isn't the 3100 is fixed? Why there is 1500? Where did this number come from? And I think people choose sustainability option is because they don't want the policy to drag that long? thus the point to continue the policy isn't there? If one need the policy to be life, its a no brainer to take it up to 100 y.o with a fixed premium thru out the policy years?

For ILP, if one doesn't mind to pay premium up to the chosen sustainability year, is the cash value in the account will still accumulate instead of the common "pay 10 year get 20 years" thing? As all this is actually taking the cash from what you contributed? Many people I think they miss this. And many agent doesn't even bother to explain this.

And regarding investment link, I myself faced the problem once. Still remember the 07/08 crisis? Yea, during that time my education policy is still running. They sent a letter to my parent mentioned that crisis cause their fund performance drop and expected the dividend to be low. That time my parent wasn't know how the thing is going behind the scene, they have no knowledge of investment and insurance. NAV, total return, dividend all are very bombastic thing to them. They don't know that NAV is actually more important then dividend pay-out as dividend is nothing when in unit trust, or something that fluctuate. Thus, the NAV drop, partial of the premium paid were gone due to bad market and over 20 years, we got exactly the same amount how much premium we paid with extra around 1000 MYR? Isn't that sound really bad to you guys? We earn nothing besides the saving. But the agent that time inform nothing, said nothing. I asked my parent and only got to know the agent they met is part timer..... And the fund they invest in is sort of stable fund? The return shall around 4-6% p.a. I don't know what is actually happening but this got struck me a lot.

And the point you had that regarding commission..... Majority I got the feedback is this, actually. How many out there are really committed to their job and being honest?

I really appreciated all the input you guys made.

Thanks!