My new employer asking for my latest 3 months payslip. They said that they need these information before confirm on hiring me. But they never tell that why they need my payslip for.
Anyone has any idea on this issue ?

Confirm you really working at the mentioned company and also your salary?

Anyway, I wouldn't give them if they asked me.

Similar topic to this thread:

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/502179

It's normal HR practice. Deal with it. If you were telling the truth in your interview nothing to be worried about.

its a norm practice

but few of my ex-companies never request my payslip also.
I am able to provide my payslips to them, but just wondering on what is the main purpose that they need it for.

Salary slips are Private and Confidential, ask them to go thru the HR rules first. If for salary confirmation, ask them to call previous employer and confirm, this is the normal practice of confirmation by HR at the background.

If u gave true information, no need sked

they want to use your salary as a benchmark , increment 10 to 20% on top ur current salary maybe?

my advice go look for other company , unless this is the company you really like.

Well, new companies have no right to ask for your P&C documents.

P&C Docs = payslip, EA form, J Form and so on.

They just want to see if you lie about your past pay and the company you worked for.

Then again, nowadays, some smaller companies use only A4 paper to print pay slips. If give own printed also they dunno la.

Ask that co. to call your previous co. to confirm la. Chances are they will fail coz your ex co's HR will not release your info to anyone at all.

i think my HR wouldn't simply disclose my information to them, because it is consider as confidential.

This is a common practice for most of the MNC Fortune 500 companies.

This is a normal practice. The reason is two-fold:-

- see how much they want to offer you (probably your last drawn salary + increment %)

- see whether what you say in your application about your previous employer and pay is true or not.


In your application to the company, you already disclose so much "P&C" information. So why be concerned about disclosing your salary?

You don't have to comply. On that same note, they don't have to hire you if you don't comply.

This post has been edited by CKJMark: Sep 8 2010, 05:24 PM

Absolutely agree to CKJMark, those people too concern and refuse to give payslip just because they not give true salary figure. My previous company even request payslip from my first company till last company. I have worked in 4 companies therefore I have to provide one payslip /company.

did they call to your previous companies and verify?

Doesn't matter whether they did.

They don't have the right to demand it from you, but CKJ is speaking the unblemished truth: if you don't provide it to them, they have a reason not to hire you!

And, it's also true what the rest of the commenters said - if what you said was honest and true, why are you scared of disclosing your previous salary???

So, it's really up to you, and not up to the rest of us...

One of the reasons one would look for a new job is because one is dissatisfied with the salary one is currently getting.

One may have chosen to stay at the current under-paying job for a bit longer due to a number of reasons etc, like wishing to see some project completed to its natural conclusion rather than leave half-way etc etc. As well as a whole bunch of reasons not directly related to pay alone.

In such situations, if you give your payslip to the HR of the potential employer, they may apply simplistic rules like +5% or +10%
when you are expecting something like at least +30%, or more.

If you stay back at the current company, you'd probably get +5% anyway. So what's the point of moving?

Having said that, when you are relatively junior, there isn't much of a choice except to provide what potential employers want. When you get more senior, you can start to say "no".

Actually this kind of company asking for payslip have no principle and no good. Reason is because they are hiring someone base on money and not the skill u have.

if you believe in your skill and they have to pay according to your skill.

most HR are dumb ass , even if a top Fortune company they are just one of the Dumb ass . Dreamworks or Pixar don't do that if you ever read some of the staff commented on their interview with the CEO.

Requesting a Salary Slip means that this company has the word " DOUBT" on their forehead and if you ever work for them, every single thing you do will be under scrutinize and even surveillance . Do you want to work with colleague who play SPY Games or GUESSING game?

In order to counter such offensive question , one should raise the bar like POKER game. If they insist for Salary Slip than you are revealing your ACE CARD . ACE Card came with a cost , tell them this. An extra RM 300 and a Guaranteed of Job if you produce them the Salary SLip.

If they can't make the decision to hire you , ask them to Fly Kite and they are wasting your time.

That would be what a more senior person would do, whether MNC or no MNC - tell them to fly kite.

The junior/less experienced/insecure people would do what has been said here, ie that is "standard/normal practice", and give in.

But sorry, it's not "normal" practice at all.

This post has been edited by howszat: Sep 9 2010, 12:51 AM

Well said hackwire! Its definitely not normal practice to give your payslip to them.

So, did you guys have any decision regarding this problem?

It's disheartening to see HR still practice this and not calibre in finding the right candidate thus wasting everybody time. Requesting for pay slip is one thing but than they didn't promise anything at all to the candidate even after revealing your pay slip.

But one should not show your pay slip . When the manager or HR ask for it during the interview ,try to interrogate them further.

1) why you need to see the pay slip?
2) So, you have doubt that i reveal a fake previous salary?
3) Than in the first place y u calling me for interview ?
4) Do you call me for interview because I have the skill for this vacancy ?

Once you have detect something fishy or fiction about their conduct, i mean do you still want to work for them???

This post has been edited by hackwire: Sep 9 2010, 07:47 AM

hackwire,

A) If they are willing to tell me what my new boss salary is, I will provide the pay slip. If they ask why, I will reply I want to know what is the maximum that I will get pay at. If they say no aka it is private and confidential, I will say same to you...

B) I NEVER tell people what my previous salary is. So, there is NO REASON to verify my pay...

Dreamer

Dont give. SO what if you lose this opportunity, its your P&C.

From the way you have posted, it seems like you have not been truthful about your salary.

its not the matter of truthful or not. In the first place, asking previous salary got nothing to do with the present career. One can have RM 5K previously but due to economy downfall, we adjusted below the previous salary.

One cannot judge the person honesty by the application form.

Why so secret about your current salary? Is there anything to hide or you are overdeclaring your current salary? To me, I don't think it is a big issue if HR dept is requesting for my latest payslip.

To my understanding, latest payslip is needed to verify if the information provided to them are correct. Without payslip verification, a lot of people can just lie on high salary and can just claim themselves working for BIG COMPANY!

Yo, not current salary but previous salary. . YOu don't bracket people into hiding or secretive. It's a different issue you are trying to tie everything in. It's the question of how much budget they already allocated to hire someone and they had called the candidate up after they had seen his resume and they like his credentials and experience.

Requesting someone previous pay slip is to authenticate someone honesty ? There are so many ways to do it? Leave RM 50 on the table and see if he keep it ? Do u need me to tell u way of testing honesty? If the employer are the one that handles big account of money or person security than they can vet the candidate through certain sources . They could use extra money to vet the candidate. If the job is to work in armor truck carrying cash everyday than they might want to vet the background of the person.

If they want the pay slip, we can even ask them to show prove that they have conducted a good paycheck, promotion and bonus thru file and papers too.

This post has been edited by hackwire: Sep 9 2010, 10:08 AM

if so.. then y u reveal ur resume? is also "P&C" wat....

some company just wanna play save.. if u previous company paying u 1k and u asking for 2k.. is the company stupid enough to hired someone who ask increment for 50%?

for my understanding max increment they can accept is 30% if more.. then u can go home fly kite also

one word will describe them... they just KIASU and KIASI

if u didnt ask for ridiculous increment and ur previous salary u stated in ur CV is true.. why not just show them?

they wont go n scan and post at lowyat

yeowa,

Let's you go to a store and buy a table and you ask the store keeper to tell you what is the cost of the table, will he tell you??

Of course, not?? Why not?? Why is he SO SECRETIVE??

Ditto, why don't HR tell you UPFRONT how much that they budgeted the SALARY for this job?? Why SO SECRETIVE??

There is NO REASON for HR to know your previous salary.. They have BUDGETED certain amount for this job. And, they know how much to pay you. None of this is RELEVANT to your PREVIOUS PAY. The ONLY REASON why they want your PREVIOUS PAY is because they want to pay you LOWER.

If they know your PREVIOUS PAY is X, they know they can get you at 10% to 15% more. Why are you SO STUPID to make sure that you get LOWER PAY??

I NEVER tell people my PREVIOUS PAY. I had received PAY INCREASE from my new job more than 50% of my PREVIOUS PAY before.

Dreamer

---

Added on September 9, 2010, 10:25 amlazyserv,

<<if u previous company paying u 1k and u asking for 2k.. is the company stupid enough to hired someone who ask increment for 50%? >>

1) If the JOB pay $2K per month, why should YOU settle for LESS??

2) Why should you tell people about your PREVIOUS PAY??

3) 1K to 2K is 100% increase..

4) If you are working 1 level higher and with more responsibility, why NEW JOB cannot get paid a lot more??

It is A STUPID COMPANY that judge how much to pay people based on PREVIOUS PAY as opposed to what the job WORTH to them....

Dreamer



This post has been edited by dreamer101: Sep 9 2010, 10:25 AM

Please find my reply in red

best regards

This post has been edited by lazyserv: Sep 9 2010, 10:37 AM

Dreamer,

Please tone down your usage of words. This forum is suppose to be for discussion and everybody have their own opinion. I am working for a MNC right now and most of the company in Malaysia do require your previous payslip UNLESS you are connected to the people inside the company. I have changed about 4 jobs over the past 10 years and all the company require my payslips. It is a normal practice to me and I have nothing to hide about my salary.

As you know, being human, they are a lot of people out in the market desperate for change of job telling the HR manager how great they are and they are paid so well in the current company, how do the HR verify this? On performance, HR manager may want to call the reference and as for pay, how do they benchmark? Agree that some company will give you a lower amount based on your previous pay but remember it is not all. If you are agressive to the HR dept by telling them what is the budgeted salary for this job, what is the first impression towards the HR manager? Remember, you are not the only one applying for the job. They are list of people interested.

My current job give me almost 70% increase in salary from my previous job. That was like 4years ago and I do provide them with payslip. In conclusion, I certainly find there is no problem providing my payslip during the interview or job application.

Regards,
yeowa

This post has been edited by yeowa: Sep 9 2010, 10:56 AM

Why can't a person ask for 100% increase ? If a person took part time courses to upgrade skills , does it justify to get a mere increase?
Well if the candidate is worth so much and you cannot afford than why do you need to continue with the interview process??? If you don't trust them , the problem is "YOU" . No matter how many people you employ and they leave, It's the BOSS problem. I have seen many employess left the company not because of their attitude. It 's the BOSS and matter of time , their company is BRAIN DRAIN.

Can i ask you back, will you guaranteed the job first with 30 % increase from the asking pay if you want to see the pay slip. Dare to take the challenge??? Im sure many candidate don't mind showing their pay slip but this is part of the negotiation skill . I will hire candidate that have this mind set as i see him professional and know how to earn money for my company.

I can tell u can't be a good boss.

This post has been edited by hackwire: Sep 9 2010, 10:57 AM

Do not forget that interview goes both way.
If either 1 party is not happy with another party's request, then any1 can call off the interview.
Now most(I'm not sure though) of the ppl here are working ppls, so obviously they will feel defensive.

But if it were me that was asked, I would also not provide my payslip.
If you don't trust me, or don't believe I was worth what I'm asking for then don't hire me.

Well said lazyserv. Some of the people here are already a boss. And I am working towards that too and will want to practice the same.

First things first. Everyone has a price. You have a price tag and I have one too. Let me ask you, would you work for free? If so, care to wash my car this weekend? Do you know what is deemed PRIVATE & CONFIDENTIAL? If such notion were not able being understood by you, why do I want to hire you? You do not know how to keep your bloody mouth shut when matters are viewed as private and confidential? Goodness gracious...I'm making bloody sure I won't be sharing my meals with you.

Always remember, salary is a judgment of value. How much is your value? It differs from one individual to another, right? I have experience in Human Resource Management and I received tonnes of employment documents during my tenure in HRM. One thing I would like to share here is, when you divulge your salary history, you put yourself in a corner that's very difficult to negotiate your way out of.

Once you have divulge your salary history, you give up your negotiating leverage. Would you want to lose your leverage? If the HRM personnel wants to verify if you have worked in the stated work place previously, by all means, make a courtesy call. It would be very much appreciated. It requires that you be polite and firm.

Always know how and when to draw a line for your self. Even if you were being pressured.

Regards, Joey

This post has been edited by Joey Christensen: Sep 9 2010, 11:01 AM

i think u misunderstood that lazyserv was not the one said in the Quote, its dreamer101.

Yes.
Leverage is the key word here.
If u got no leverage, u got nothing to negotiate ur value.

Well Said... That's what im saying . It's not the matter of trust, honest, lie ...It's matter of principle, negotiation skill and respect.
The value and worth at present is what differentiate the candidate from the rest. Imagine sometimes good candidates invested heavily on their appearance and apparels , the gym workout invested, the mental preps etc to reach the higher status from the rest??? If the Bosses and HR just want to look for any Tom , d*** , harry than continue with this goal plan asking people the salary slip. be there and don't grow out .

Dear hackwire,
Sure you can get 100% increase if your previous paid salary is below RM1k. But do you think it is possible to get 100% even you took a part time course but with no experience? I doubt so. I agree with what Vengeance have to say below.

Dear Vengeance, you are right about this.

I am confuse on the first paragraph. Are you saying that my payslip is P&C and not suppose to show to my prospective employer? Sorry ya...

I kinda agree with your 2nd and 3rd para though. But I thought we are required to fill in our past employment salary on the interview form?

I am agreeing on lazyserv reply in red.

---

Added on September 9, 2010, 11:14 amBut there are so many candidates interviewing for the same position. What is your chance of success if other candidates provide and you refuse to provide? Some point to ponder.

This post has been edited by yeowa: Sep 9 2010, 11:17 AM

my personal experience; I will comply and provide the pay slip upon request, I have nothing to hide. At the same time, I will still put the amount of salary of my choice on the application form, regardless whether it's 10% increase or 100% increase (of course must be reasonable, you must know your own worth).

To my understanding that is what "expected salary" means, I get what I expect to be a satisfied employee. Providing previous payslip without hesitation and demanding a high salary just shows one thing about me; that with the skills I have, I know I am underpaid as shown on my payslip and I am confident my real worth is as mentioned by my expected salary.

When a job is offered, the ball is in my court, if I am not satisfied with the salary offered, I re-negotiate, but the if I am not satisfied with the final offer, I reject. I will not go into a new job being not fully satisfied with the salary or any other aspects of the employment package. That will not be good for my relationship with the new employer.

At the end of the day, it boils down to how badly you want the job.

If you want the job, you will do what they ask of you.

If you want to hold back information to negotiate and what not, then you take the risk of being rejected because other candidate may accommodate their request.

In cases like this, like Yeowa says, "What is your chance of success if other candidates provide and you refuse to provide?"

You can complain about your "rights" and "P&C info" and "fairness" but the fact is it simply boils down to how badly you want the job. All is fair in this game. As much as you want to keep your leverage, they want to hold on to their's too.



This post has been edited by CKJMark: Sep 9 2010, 11:22 AM

I am neither enemy nor friend. I am neither constructive nor destructive. The question is best remained to be answered by you. You do not need to apologise. You need some time to ponder thou.

Regards, Joey

p.s: Apology is not accepted because it wasn't necessary in the first place.

This show you are confident in your worth based on the role you are expecting.

---

Added on September 9, 2010, 11:22 amCouldn't agree more...

Sorry la... sorry la... sorry la... heheheh... Thank you so much...

This post has been edited by yeowa: Sep 9 2010, 11:22 AM

yes i may not be a good boss, but do u think that many company got different rules? if i wanna hired someone who asking 100% turn over i will ask him/her show me that u worth that value.. else no matter how good is ur negotiable or charisma skill it still wont effect my decision, if u have the mind set but u never know how to do it.. what is the purpose i hired someone who know how to talk and perform well in interview but once i hired him/her works like shi*t?

once the day u're a boss and if a MNC company u have to remember that u got share holder to report to.. is not like u wanna hired n use company resource like ur company... every penny u spend also must have to benefit the company.

at the end of the day.. both party got their own reason.. there is no right or wrong...

As a manager if someone comply and show their salary slip so easily than i will have second thought about that . one day if the supplier or dealer will not trust the quoted price and ask him/her to provide the prove, i assume he/she will do it out of desperation for sales or reward without my knowledge.

Some of you think that it's ok to show your honesty through this way and sent the message out that i have nothing to hide. But, the company who hires you in the first place do not trust you and doubted your integrity already... if there's no trust , there's a long way for you to go with them with more nonsensical issue next time.

they will even think that you purposely doing something behind their back or they even question your freedom of expression. You will have all sort of explanation and task to perform if they don't freely or easily trust you.

like i said, they should have ask themselves first the reason they need to hire to fill the job . If the person is in sales, they might be interested of his previous clientele than his 50-100% increase of pay.
They need to weigh the outcome of it also.

---

Added on September 9, 2010, 11:43 amcool... im a boss , an employee and investor. there's no such thing as u boss and im employee in this fast world. winning people heart and mind is a silk road to achieve, u need to earn that by paying what is needed. If you don't have the skill to find the right candidate, have you heard of Consultants and Recruitment Agency? You can pay them fees to get the right worker but did you ?? asking someone pay is very orthodox way to hire someone . if u don't know, Apple also hires people from different background to work with them as they feel that they need creative juice from other areas to tell them what is not.



This post has been edited by hackwire: Sep 9 2010, 11:43 AM

the terms P&C of a salary slip is the individual discretion, supplier/dealer price is never the individual's discretion, that is totally company's P&C matter. If I show my payslip and the company still hires me, does that mean that they still do not trust and doubt my integrity? When I show my payslip upon their request and that offends the company, they can always rescind the job offer. Nobody force them to hire me, nobody force me to accept their job offer.

When you apply for bank loan/credit card, they usually ask for a copy of payslip. Of course, it's P&C, but at the individual's discretion. It's not a matter of trust, it's just standard procedure. It's outrageous to judge someone just because he/she followed procedure and provide a copy of the payslip.

Knowing what P&C stands for and what it's coverage, limitation and true meaning are two different things

This post has been edited by UnnAmeD_R: Sep 9 2010, 12:16 PM

yes good u are a boss but doesnt mean all the company boss is like u... different company different management.. maybe that is the way u manage ur company and hiring but doesnt mean out there other management need to follow or is the same as ur management and hiring way. i myself work as a recruiter and personally dealing with various type of client

some of my client need payslip and some of them no need.. there is no right or wrong in this matter

if u reject to reveal ur payslip they got their choice not to hired u.. sometimes i even convince my client about this sensitive issue but they just throw one word to me.. this is their company procedure.. then what should i do? in other hand i still need to pursude my candidate regarding this issue...

if he dowan to reveal and the company dowan to make a step backward an the end the day my client just will ask i source another candidate for them but the candidate? go mamak n makan roti kosong la.. apa lagi.. since he dowan to cooperate with their procedure..

he got the right not to reveal but if he desperate or whole family expenses rely on him do he have to care so much of the P&C and make whole family eat sand with him and the end?

i can say u are not a choosy boss and ur benefit all gave to ur subordinate or staff but doesnt mean other will do it the same way with u

It's a personal preference after all but on the hollistic approach. A pro recruiter will divulge into this questionaire rather than "Can you show us your payslip"

here are the list which HR could use to further enhance the right candidate to hire which i think more important than knowing someone previous pay. Like i said " It's so Orthodox"

Why is this list important?


To do a great job selling yourself, a resume needs to convince readers that you have the skills needed for their job and the abilities to do it successfully. By highlighting accomplishments using action verbs, you create a proven track record to eliminate all doubt.

You successfully…

Managed company/department annual/quarterly budget of X (large) amount
Stayed under budget for X quarters/years
Were promoted
Were promoted after only X months in the role
Directed a team/group/organization (something difficult to manage)
Managed a project spanning X countries/continents/employees
Placed employees at X companies
Trained X new employees
Built a new team/division (not just hiring, also managing the workflow) for the company
Redesigned and implemented more effective company procedures which e.g. decreased time-to-market by X amount/%
Met deadlines consistently
Reined in rollercoaster project X
Supervised large/complex project in attaining goal X
Grew customer base by X amount/%
Grew donor base by X amount/%
Multiplied donations by X amount/%
Cut costs by X amount/% within Y amount of time
Launched X new websites/products/campaigns
Increased portfolio earnings by X amount/%
Integrated an extremely complex system for the company
United multiple teams post-merger
Finished sales quota X amount of time early
Reduced client/reader attrition by X amount/%
Met X national/global/industry standard within Y amount of time
Streamlined team/department operations
Improved ties with country/industry association/union
Boosted earnings by X amount/%
Implemented a service level agreement
Won X number of cases (for a lawyer)
Published X articles/white papers/reports/books
Received X award/designation
Won X award/competition for Y consecutive years
Attained X certification
Finished in the top X percentile of your class/course
Reached X objective(s) every quarter for Y quarters in a row
Reached X objective(s) faster than competitor (internal/external)
Discovered X new drugs/species/trends
Coined well-known buzzword or industry term
Created X program/course/methodology
Founded X company/non-profit/association/club
Solved X disputes (for a negotiator)
Resolved X internal conflicts
Hold world/Olympic record
Climbed X number of mountains
Coached X teams to trophy/championship/1st place in league
Received score of X (high) on known customer satisfaction survey/poll
Received score of X (high) on standardized testing/exam
First person to achieve X (or led first team to achieve X) internally/externally
Something you created won an award/was a bestseller/fan favorite
Voted best/most something by association/club/group
Featured in website/magazine/newspaper/book
Held a perfect attendance record
Introduced company products to X new markets
Audited X number of clients in only Y amount of time
Piloted X program with a Y % participant completion rate
Advanced (non-profit) organization policy
Fixed X amount / % of bugs in company software/open-source project
Presented at well-known conference/seminar/workshop
Did something that was viewed/used by many people
Achieved/Surpassed company/team goal of doing X by Y amount / %
Notes
Be prepared to explain how you achieved your results, how an award was decided, etc. For example, numbers in particular give more credibility to your statements but only use them if you can explain how they were measured.

Using these ideas should help you avoid making ambiguous statements where trust is required but not easily acquired like in a job interview.



Read more at: http://jobmob.co.il/blog/resume-achievemen.../#ixzz0z0J9EU7m

This post has been edited by hackwire: Sep 9 2010, 12:53 PM

It really depending on the company size and culture. P&C is only restricted to ur own company and owner's discretion.

Previous Salary Slip is not equivalent to Job Skill. If the person does not perform as promise and work like shit, they have to be answerable for it. So it's not the matter of honest or lie? You still the one holding the AXE not him.

U r a good and dominant boss... Good luck in managing ur company...

yes

all the best to you hackwire

lazyserv,

I hired people. I do not work for HR. I pay people based on what the job pays. Not on what their previous salary is.

Dreamer

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Added on September 9, 2010, 2:23 pmyeowa,

That is WHY I do not deal with HR. I contact the hiring manager DIRECTLY. HR just rubber stamped the offer after the deal is done...

<<As you know, being human, they are a lot of people out in the market desperate for change of job telling the HR manager how great they are and they are paid so well in the current company, how do the HR verify this?>>

You should know by now... HR is CLUELESS as to what the PERSON worth to the company. You are just a NUMBER to them. In order to get pay more, you need to deal with HIRING MANAGER directly...

The PREVIOUS PAY has to do with PREVIOUS COMPANY think you are WORTH to them. It has NOTHING to do with the new job...

I had 10+ jobs across 20+ years and 6+ companies...

I NEVER get my jobs through HR....

Dreamer

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Added on September 9, 2010, 2:31 pmUnnAmeD_R,

<<At the same time, I will still put the amount of salary of my choice on the application form,>>

In expected salary, I put "Negotiable". Plus, I do not put in my previous salary..

You know what you want... But, how do you know HOW MUCH they need you??? You don't...

In a negotiation, whoever put out the first number, loses...

I would not even negotiate or talk about salary with Hiring Manager until they tell me the salary range...

<<When a job is offered, the ball is in my court, if I am not satisfied with the salary offered, I re-negotiate, >>

You CANNOT. In many MNC, they have a rule on how much increment that they can give you based on YOUR PREVIOUS SALARY. So, as soon as you give out YOUR PREVIOUS SALARY, the Hiring Manager cannot make you a better offer even if he / she wants to. The HR folks will and can stop that...

But, if you do not give out YOUR PREVIOUS SALARY, the Hiring Manager can make you a better offer...

Dreamer

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Added on September 9, 2010, 2:34 pmCKJMark,

<<In cases like this, like Yeowa says, "What is your chance of success if other candidates provide and you refuse to provide?">>

Average people do not get hire...

<<how badly you want the job.>>

People that show badly that they need a job is NOT VERY GOOD.. Why should I hire them?? I want to hire winners not losers...

Dreamer



This post has been edited by dreamer101: Sep 9 2010, 02:34 PM

Folks,

It is VERY SIMPLE...

Any good company know how much a job worth to them. Hence, they know how much to pay?? Why has that got ANYTHING to do with YOUR PREVIOUS PAY?? Nothing!!!

Now, what would me as a Hiring Manager want to hire SOMEONE that do not know how to negotiate and keep their mouth shut??? Especially, for a senior position?? I would not..

A) I NEVER ask about PREVIOUS PAY

B) I will REJECT anyone that volunteer that information...

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Sep 9 2010, 02:45 PM

that's right dreamer... one thing about giving out such info just because others will have better chances is just pure ASSUMPTION.

If i believe im good at that value, i deserve that salary. If they can't afford than just choose other company to work. I don't need to hire those who are so easily "Yes" person. I prefer the nay sayer, a dragon slayer who truthfully say "No".

I am curious what industry is ur co. It is very different from my experience. Well we all learn.

No hardfeeling, i feel dreamer and hackwire are very proud and arrogant.


This post has been edited by yeowa: Sep 9 2010, 03:31 PM

@dreamer
I'm more interested on HOW did you deal directly with the hiring manager instead of HR. Because I would assume it is the HR that calls / interviews you. Another point is that how do you even know whois the hiring manager?
(Pardon me on this issue as I'm still quite fresh in the working world and want to know more on this "advantage")

no hard feeling... im also working for people before and also attended lots of bad interviews. It make one stronger and reject the same people in the same shoe. this is normal but you don't have to believe all what i said , you can read in this link . even someone one across the globe is saying the same thing as dreamer and i said. just read the comment at the end by one of them. all i know is that i know the rich people are much more open and respect people . In the end of the day, it's the staff turnover report they are worry as the money they spent for training and maintain worth nothing if the company principles are wrong . If it's full of bad blood and deception, the company gonna suffer. Only by trusting and care, they know the employee can go very far.

http://jobmob.co.il/blog/signs-of-bad-employers/

Let me try this out in my next interview.

we all learn... i learn finding signs like that. i even walkout from three interviewers when they asked why your dad making such decision to change your school... if i c interviewer not stick to the important question, they are just interrogating and intrude privacy like PI, i stopped them harshly. Judging the employer character is not difficult for me now.

This post has been edited by hackwire: Sep 9 2010, 04:01 PM

This is as true as it gets.


The salary should be based on the size of the job, not the size of your previous job.

If you take a new job that is twice the size of your old job, then you should be paid twice as much (simplistically speaking).

The only reason why you would agree to an offer of your old salary + 20% (for eg.) is because your new job is actually not more than 20% larger than your old job. Even then, if you tell them your old salary, how can you be sure they wouldn't have offered you 40% more salary to do 20% more work?

And if the new job is actually twice the size, then you would have shot yourself in the foot if you encouraged them (by telling your previous salary) to only offer you 20% more salary. If that's the case, you just wasted a potentially good offer and your time & effort.

In the finance dept of the MNC I'm with, our salaries are based on the type of work (accounts technician to Controller to CFO etc) X the amount of work (based on revenue and volume). If I am reassigned from managing a business worth $10 million revenue to managing one worth $1 billion revenue, I'll make damn sure they pay me the entire $990 million differential (according to our pay scale, of course) rather than just accept a standard previous salary + 20%. Ditto if it's a promotion in terms of type of work.

Hmm...true... but I never give out the salary info until the HR makes the job offer and request payslip as to come out with the salary package. I never will volunteer and will hold out until last moment possible. Not sure why I never tried to say NO when HR ask for payslip, but seems things like this don't offend me. But I never do it just because I am worried that they will not offer me the job. I go in with the confidence that I am worth what I am asking for, and always seem to get what I ask for even though it's higher by industry standard (to my knowledge of course).

But I'm open to this, I will try out this idea of withholding salary info on my next job hunt. Who knows, this method may gain extra leverage. No harm trying it, right?

Agree

Typically, you are asked for latest 2 months' salary payslip. This serves the following purposes:

1. Cost
- Companies always use your last drawn salary as a base when making an offer. Other factors considered will include industry benchmark (typically obtained from a few major consulting companies such as Towers Watson), internal equity (salary paid among existing employees), the job itself and the responsibilities that comes with it (e.g. if you are an Assistant Manager, and the company offers Manager position, obviously the additional accountability and responsibility will justify a higher premium).

- Based on the point above, the HR Dept need to ensure that you are telling the truth, and not inflating your last earned salary in order to give youself a big salary jump. I know it may seem unfair, but it's the truth, and I am sure if you own a company, you would do the same.

2. Verification
- Salary slip verifies that you actually work with the company until your last working date as you state in your employment application form.
- Why is this important? So we can spot if anything is wrong. A candidate may leave because he/she was asked to go, could be due to some negative things at work, and he/she could not find job for 3 months. To make things look good, he/she entered last working day as end August 2010, when he/she actually left in April 2010. When the candidate could not produce the payslip as what he/she wrote in the form, an alert HR person will be suspicious and would verify/check further. This is just an example so you get the idea....I know background checks can be done, but this is an area that can trigger the HR, informing us that soemthing is not right here....

My opinion is this: when HR asks for such document, you have no choice. Objecting means "you are being difficult", which is not to your advantage being branded as such even before you join the company, or even offered the job yet.

What can you do to preserve whatever advantage you have left in salary negotiations? Never ever indicate your expected salary. Focus on "wow-ing" the interviewers until they would fight to hire you. Let them quote you a figure, take some time to decide and come back with a higher one (make sure you have enough salary data, since companies have limited resources, i.e. if u insist on 50% increment when the company only offers 20%, there is no way they will meet your demands, unless you are an absolute expert and your skills/knowledge are not easy to source in the market).

Having said the above, salary is not the only consideration when deciding on an employment offer.....

Hope the above helps.

yeowa,

IT / Data Comm / Telecom..

Or, you have NEVER met people that are SENIOR ENOUGH to know their own worth...

kelvin_tan,

It is VERY SIMPLE. People networking....

How could you NOT KNOW?? Especially in Malaysia. It is a small world.. In every industry, there are ONLY a small number of KEY people. Everyone know everyone...

Plus, I use people networking to job hunt across multiple countries too...

Dreamer

---

Added on September 9, 2010, 8:44 pmhrguy,

1. Cost

BS. Benchmark let you hire AVERAGE people at AVERAGE SALARY. Why do I want to be AVERAGE and get paid the AVERAGE??

So, I bypass HR and deal with Hiring Manager. After Hiring Manager make me an offer, the HR has NO CHOICE but to rubber stamp IT.

HR is the ENEMY. They ONLY CARE about the cost..

Let me ask you a REVERSE QUESTION how long can a company last by hiring AVERAGE PEOPLE.... Not long.. HR is THE PROBLEM that is killing the COMPANY...

2. Verification

BS. This is what reference for.. Are you saying HR is TOO LAZY to call the previous employer and find out?? Even for employment verification, we could provide salary slip with salary amount WHITE OUT...

<< Objecting means "you are being difficult", which is not to your advantage being branded as such even before you join the company, or even offered the job yet.?>>

Do not deal with HR. They are the ENEMY.... And, they cannot offer YOU a job. Only the HIRING MANAGER can. So, why deal with people that are USELESS??

<< - Why is this important? So we can spot if anything is wrong. A candidate may leave because he/she was asked to go, could be due to some negative things at work, and he/she could not find job for 3 months. >>

HR is TOO LAZY to check the REFERENCE.. If HR do their job, it will all come out...

Dreamer




This post has been edited by dreamer101: Sep 9 2010, 08:44 PM

Folks,

80% of jobs are filled via personal referral. 80% of the jobs are filled before they ever being posted.. If YOU are talking and contacted via HR, you are ONLY applying to ONLY 20% of the job opening??

WHY are you doing that?? Fighting with all those NAIVE people on the 20% available positions??

So, all those posting on the thread are debating and arguing on 20% of the positions. 80% of positions are filled via personal referral and HR only rubber stamp the offer after the hiring manager decide who to hire...

I had 10+ jobs across 20+ years.. They are all from personal referral or through headhunter... HR NEVER play a role on the hiring decision..

Dreamer

Dear dreamer, u r speaking for the IT & comm industry where skills are unique depending on individuals. It is different from FBCG and other
services industries. Wait till when recession hit and you need to apply job in other sector. No matter how senior you are, your arrogance is killing yourselves. And I hope I don't receive your CV in my company as I will put your CV aside for not fufilling my company's requirement. LOL... Just kidding...
I am out from this topic. Pointless argument with those who are as hard as a rock.

yeowa,

1) Before you argue and debate with ANYONE, how many research and books had you read on job hunting and interview. I spent 20+ years on this.. All those research point to the same conclusion and it applies to all industries....

2) I had survived at least 6 recessions. I had worked across 4 industries with 10+ jobs.. How many had you went through??

3) I always get above average bonus and increments even during recession..

4) By the way, I am a few years from early retirement...

<<And I hope I don't receive your CV in my company as I will put your CV aside for not fufilling my company's requirement.>>

5) You are NOT at the LEVEL to hire me...

<<I am out from this topic. Pointless argument with those who are as hard as a rock.>>

6) Or, it is YOU that KNOW NOTHING??

Dreamer

I didnt read the replies here, so pardon me if my reply is slow poke.

The reason they want ur payslip is to verify the amount u tell is true anot. FOr my case, the new employer asked for my expected salary only.. never ask for my current pay.. so i put RM15k as expected. Then when after i submit my payslips and all (rm9k) the offer came in and guess how much they offer me, RM10k+ only.. so meaning whatever 'expected' we put in is useless la.. they will offer base on how much they like and ur current pay nia.

So if possible, avoid giving ur current payslip la. I learnt my lesson liao. I rejected them dy.

Average Joe only will give out their pay slip and average joe will only ask for pay slip. Even during depression or no food, average joe will sell even their child for slavery. Dreamer and i have been thru this and we are just telling what personality traits that will bring goodness inside the person . Yeowa, we are not rock but u read so much and i even posted a link and you still don't get the picture. who's the rock.

giving out your salary slip to bank for loan is a requirement but giving out to someone who "DOUBTED" your application ??? Like i said , what job is this??? Is this so important when they like someone and they don't trust what he said???

First, they like the candidate a lot because of his appearance, his communication level , his intelligence, his record experience as stated,
his education background etc... but they cast the spell DOUBT on him ??? I mean, this is BLACK ART. Period.

it's time to learn where the hypocrisy sign of the person character and sometime our blood has it because our examination system turn out to be this way. too bad if some still in the sleep.

---

Added on September 10, 2010, 8:37 amDid Donald Trump hire the Apprentice winner in the show by telling them "You Are Hire but show me the previous Salary slip first"?

This post has been edited by hackwire: Sep 10 2010, 08:37 AM

From my experience, I put my expected salary as non-negotiable. Most people say their salary is negotiable and that's exactly what the HR ppl try to do. I do give my payslip when requested but am still firm on the figure I want. So if I earn 10k, and want 13k I still won't accept 12.5k. I don't try to ask for 15k, hoping to get 13k (or even 15k). Happened to me once, and I said no. Company crawl back later and said will give me what I want, but told them I got another offer already, so expected salary is now revised upwards. I was prepared to lose the offer already, but didn't really care since they were trying to play hardball with me.

Must be a checking on your previous salary, so they would not offer you with "over-salaried"
btw, HR is good in negotiating in terms of salary.

This post has been edited by JenLOI: Sep 10 2010, 04:29 PM

wow hebat i like ur attitude

This is typical Msian standard.. I never expose and share my P&C details to potential hiring companies or headhunters.. They should know what the current market pay scale within the industry.. if they insist to ask me for the payslip i am more than happy to let go the job or lose that headhunter.. they shld know how much u worth even before they come and approach u.. furthermore we shld be reward according to what we can deliver and not based on what is our last drawn salary.. this is what i really hate about Msia headhunters.. so far i hv only walk into couples (very few) in Msia that never ask for payslips or P&C info and yet can tell what exactly the range u can command very accurately.. those more horrible 1, will even ask what is ur age and what is ur date of birth.. WT???? it has to do with the job? if capable for the job, why it has to do with my age? is that mean the older i am the more pay i can get? the higher i can go? Msian HR and headhunters has to be more relevant.. to make thing worse (not worst) there are a lot of "consultant" who are so young and inexperience for the placement.. sigh.. anyway.. that my general experience.. not mean for everyone.. dun flame me after all..

This post has been edited by CanonA95: Sep 10 2010, 06:53 PM

normaldude,

So, you put in a number and say it is non-negotiable. But, why even put in a number to begin with?? Just DO NOT PUT in a number at all and say negotiable...

Until you talk with the hiring manager and know how much they need you, why put in a number in the first place??

A) If they happen to have a BIG PROJECT and they need SOMEONE like you URGENTLY and you are the ONLY few with RELEVANT experience, why settle for less??

B) On the other hand, if they happen to offer training and project that let you go to the next level, you may be willing to settle for less.

Do not even discuss about salary until you can find out MORE about the job...

In ANY TYPE of negotiation, whoever put out a number FIRST loses.

In many companies, the HIRING MANAGER can offer you 13K if HR do not know your PREVIOUS PAY. But, they cannot after HR see your pay slip at 9K or 10K. If you are willing to stick your non-negotiated expected salary, just give pay slip and white out the amount. If HR complain, ask them to go fly kite...

Dreamer

Which ever party that put the figure on the negotiation table first would normally loose. Any numerical value in expected salary column is a syntax error

I've learn my lesson by showing my pay slip. I get a job that is paying 25% lower. Hell, I was arrogant b*tch tht need to prove myself I was right, which end up,..wrong.

I will not show my salary. If they want me to prove my skill, please refer to my resume (& project I handle before). I nego my salary based on my EXPERIENCE in line I'm working in.

I, myself a hiring manager. HR procedure of asking a payslip is BS. They already hv and knw salary limit. It's just for HR to skip the part calling the ex-company for verification.

If we work on saturdays, should we be compensated with a higher amount as well? So assuming we work 20 days per month, and there are 4 saturdays, should they pay us (24/20 * market rate salary)? Assuming as well this is a fresh graduate position so there are no adjustments for experience.

gloomberg,

1) Come on... There is NO SUCH THING as should or whatever. You get paid according to whatever you can get the EMPLOYER agree to pay you at. The CORRECT QUESTION is DO YOU KNOW how to negotiate for BETTER PAY??


2) Who say that just because you are FRESH GRAD = NO EXPERIENCE??

A) It is all depends on how you SELL yourself and how do you show what you did is RELEVANT to your job??

B) A smart fresh grad will prepare 1 to 2 years before graduation and start doing stuff to differentiate himself / herself from OTHERS.

There are 2 kinds of people in the world

A) People that LET things HAPPEN to them.

B) People that MAKE things happen.

Which kind are you??

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Sep 12 2010, 01:32 AM

Nice piece of advise, real good one. Too bad that is not the kind of advise I'm seeking for. Can u see the question first?
Let me specify it once more, I'm just asking according to any sort of labour law out there that states that we should be getting more or any adjustments being made if we work on saturdays... =,=
The answer can be:
(a) Yes - If yes, how is it done
(b) No - means you just have to live with it

To be more specific again, it's a full-time job with a MNC. Not part-time.

*Sorry to offend u dreamer101, ur advise is one hell of an advise, but sometimes when people wants a digital camera, they don't really want a DSLR (maybe because they can't afford it or it's just not what they want. And sorry again if I posted this in the wrong section, please forgive this newbie here*

Candidate's who don't give salary slip has to be way better than those who are willing to give past salary slip. It is a sad case of, if you don't give, got other waterfish willing to give.

This post has been edited by Hidan: Sep 12 2010, 01:27 PM

gloomberg,

As a NEWBIE, LEARN how to ask question.

A) In your ORIGINAL POST, you say "SHOULD". You did not ask what the law say.

B) You did not say

i) You started with the job with no work on Saturday but later on adjusted to work on Saturday.

ii) This is a job that you are applying that work on Saturday versus one that you are working on with no work on Saturday..

C) Law differ dependent on PAY LEVEL too.

Dreamer

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Added on September 12, 2010, 8:45 pmHidan,

So what??

Company that hire AVERAGE PEOPLE and give AVERAGE PAY will die quickly. There is NO BIG LOSS here. And, you DO NOT WASTE your time and life on a company that do not compensate for GOOD PERFORMANCE..

In EVERY BIG COMPANIES, 20% of the people do 80% of the works. If those 20% are not compensated according, they will leave and the company will die...

The WORLD is FAIR.

HR is the DEVIL that destroy most companies....

Dreamer


This post has been edited by dreamer101: Sep 12 2010, 08:45 PM

Oh, so I assume that lowyat forum is a professional setting. Amusing. Good then.

My question is and will be, in the event a person(male/female) is about to accept a job(white collar) offer whereby the he/she is required to work on Saturdays, SHOULD/MUST there be any adjustments being made to his/her salary. Other benefits/perks are irrelevant as my question only pertains to the SALARY and only the SALARY only. SHOULD would refer to the willingness and ethics of the company that is paying the salary, while MUST refers to the law that requires company to actually make adjustments.

Pay Level is for fresh graduate who has little experience in field (<1 year experience) within the range of (RM2,500-RM3,000)

P.S. Any discrepancy in definitions here may not be accurate.

gloomberg,

<<Oh, so I assume that lowyat forum is a professional setting. Amusing. Good then.>>

A professional ALWAYS ask question in a professional manner under ANY setting.

<< My question is and will be, in the event a person(male/female) is about to accept a job(white collar) offer whereby the he/she is required to work on Saturdays, SHOULD/MUST there be any adjustments being made to his/her salary. >>

This is a VERY CONFUSING question.

A) Has the offer been made?? Yes or no??

B) Is the offer made and subsequently the job scope change to include Saturday?? Or, the job scope include Saturday all the time but the candidate does not know...

If the offer had been made and the job includes SATURDAY work, why should the company make any adjustment??

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Sep 12 2010, 09:42 PM

Your great need for clarification certainly astounds me. The job requires us to work on Saturdays as regular working days, and I'm asking whether there would be adjustment because I was required to give an expected salary range. So if I THINK I would be properly priced at RM2,500, can I make an offer of adjustment at (24/20 * 2,500) = RM3,000? as I'm not sure what is the market value of this position.

Adjustments can be made accordingly. All you have to do is inquire in a proper manner. Well, if you think you are "properly priced" at RM2,500, how the heck the RM3,000 came from? You have to recompose your composition.

I could not understand your postings. Seriously. As quoted:

"...My question is and will be, in the event a person(male/female) is about to accept a job(white collar) offer whereby the he/she is required to work on Saturdays, SHOULD/MUST there be any adjustments being made to his/her salary. Other benefits/perks are irrelevant as my question only pertains to the SALARY and only the SALARY only. SHOULD would refer to the willingness and ethics of the company that is paying the salary, while MUST refers to the law that requires company to actually make adjustments."

Regards, Joey

This post has been edited by Joey Christensen: Sep 13 2010, 10:06 AM

gloomberg,

1) Have an offer being made?? Yes or no??

2) If not, why give an expected salary range??

3) They aka HR has a budget. They have a salary range. Ask them to tell you...

In ANY negotiation, whoever put out a number FIRST loses!!!

Dreamer

ok! Got it boss!

This is a super duper huge MNC, So I would assume that the salary would be high... But they require you to write it on paper first, so does that mean I have LOST even without knowing it?

Offer has been made. I need some advise before going head to head and negotiate.