I would like to thank dreamer for the advice as it worked like a charm. Got myself a sweet 60% increase in pay thanks to not putting a number/showing payslips.

It may not apply to everyone but, make sure you find it very offensive when the HR asks for it. The HR totally went for a 180 and said she'll call my previous company for information.

if you don't tell, how is HR going to find out?

Yes, I know. And my point was if the candidate doesn't tell, how will the interviewing company find out?

No company HR will reveal their employees' salaries to 3rd parties, unless it's the authorities asking. Do people really think that company HR will reveal personal details to whoever simply calls them on the phone?

You are assuming that HR people will believe some cold caller is a 'fellow HR practitioner'. Not every HR person knows every other HR person. I don't believe the 'spirit of collegiality and goodwill' you mention is ever given anonymously over the phone. When you're dying something unethical, you tend to be more cautious, no?

As for CVs,.. if you ever had your details on Jobstreet, Linkedin etc... your cv is already out there. And I think you'll find that it's the recruiters who are behind this, not company HR. Company HR only have access to,.. well, their company and its employees. Hardly a lucrative source of cvs. And guess who gives their cvs and salary information to recruiters? You.

Basically I don't know why they want to see our payslip, but then considering current situation, they want to verify something I guess.

how they want to verify our epf contribution since we don't give out our epf number during the interview time?

only submit the epf number after joining the company.

I beg to differ. The company HR "community" is dispersed, uncoordinated and unregulated. The smaller companies (small listed, SME and below) are all over the place. It's not like there's a widely accepted professional association or regulating organisation bringing practitioners together and disseminating common information, like for accountants, or lawyers etc. And it's not like everybody in company HR went to 'HR school' unlike the professions. So, no, I don't believe they have much contact with each other at all. Much less unethically and probably illegally share confidential salary information. The larger MNC HR directors probably know one another, but they have the highest standards of safekeeping confidential information as well.

Well, I'm just saying that just because most people don't (know how to) negotiate, persuade and evade - don't call it hardball. It's basically softball, but most people have no balls.

If you were HR, would you take the trouble to go to EPF office, go up to the counter, slip some cash under a piece of paper to the counter clerk and whisper hoarsely that you need to 'obtain' the EPF contribution information on so and so?

How many people get interviewed everyday, and how many EPF counter clerks are there? How much time do you think HR people have?

These delusions are getting more and more outlandish.

If it were so easy to get confidential information on a mass basis (as they are many, many, many candidates to get information on), these company HR wouldn't have ask, threaten and cajole candidates to hand over their salary slips.

If an employer felt compelled to go to the effort, trouble and lengths you described to get information on a candidate, I think the company wants him and the candidate has considerable negotiation leverage. If so,.. there's no need for him to accept 20%+previous salary, and there'll be no need for the company to find out what his previous salary was, and there'll be no benefit for the company to offer him 20%+previous salary as they need him anyway.

Ummm... that is about the only piece of information that company HR will release over a phone call.

Don't need a payslip for that.

so when they ask, what r u going to do?

It depends on the situation. I can only speak from the organisations I've worked with, all of them MNCs / GLCs.

Firstly, every job, every role have a range of salary the company is willing to pay. Sure it might be beneficial to get someone at 2k when the market is paying 3k, but eventually the internal equity will be addressed so unless the figure is huge, it is unlikely to be a massive impact on the overall negotiation.

Secondly, how certain are you that the job is yours? If it is just the initial discussion, you can always just say you are not ready to discuss about pay package until much later on. Everyone eventually comes down to pay discussion so it will come out one way or another.

Thirdly, you should decide your own price. I will make an exception fresh graduates that might not be certain of their starting pay, but if one is a seasoned professional, you must know what it takes to be your pull factor. If you think from what have been communicated as your job responsibility to be worth 50% of your current salary, that should be communicated as such. Whether you give or refuse to provide your salary slip is not in the equation here.

A company can either afford you or they can't. If the price you name cannot be matched, they will come back with another offer. If they think that a 50% jump from your prior salary is ridiculous, you do not want to work for that company. Or, if you really want to, you just have to suck it up the lower offer.

Salary negotiation can be intense, but it is not a stupid war. You have your price that you believe it is fair, it might be more or it might be less than others, that should not be the argument here. The point to ponder is, are they willing to pay your expected worth?

Starbucki,

You still do not get IT.  In any form of price / salary negotiation, whoever give up the number first loses the LEVERAGE.

If the HR  and / or Hiring Manager tell you that the salary range is $4,000 to $5,000 per month FIRST, why would you settle for less than $4,000??  In fact, you would ask for $4,500.

Now, if you tell THEM that your previous salary is $3,000 FIRST, they know that they can probably pay you $3,450 and get away with that.

<< So basically you are saying that your current salary will eventually be revealed, and based on that it would still be up to the company to decide your salary,>>

In many companies, the HR policy said that they cannot offer you more than 15% of your previous salary.  If you revealed your previous salary, they can only offer you $3,450.  If you don't, they can offer you at least $4,000 per month as per my example.

I was a hiring manager.  I tell my candidates not to reveal their previous and expected salary.  If they do, that will limit my flexibility in making an offer.  But, it was to late for many of them since they filled out everything in the form.  They had limited themselves to either 15% of previous salary or expected salary: whichever that is lower.  As for others that contacted me through my social network before applying for the job, they do not need to fill in a form.  And, I tell them the salary range. 

Hiring Manager do not see eye to eye with the HR.  In most cases, they are enemies. 

Dreamer

Starbucki,

<< So what do you do when you are asked to provide your payslip after all negotiations are done? Forge one that shows that the increment falls within the 15% band, or just tell them you will not provide one?>>

If they had given you a written offer, why do you need to give them anything like a pay slip??  That is STUPID!! Do you always do as you are told??

<< Unfortunately your own experience as a hiring manager does not represent the majority of hiring processes, where HR will simply not process further until all boxes are ticked. >>

Normal people go through the HR process and get stuck.  SMART people figure out who the hiring manager is and bypass the HR process. 

<<Your solutions would only work in conditions created by yourself>>

Bingo!!! SMART people bypass the system instead of following the HR process that underpay them.  ANYONE that work a bit longer and establish a social network could had find out who the hiring manager is.  They take control of the salary negotiation process.

"Average people are not rich.  Rich people are not average."

It is a CHOICE.  BEHAVE like an average people and you will get paid like an average people. You only have 20+ years of working income.  CHOOSE wisely...

Dreamer

Starbucki,

<<They will only give you the offer letter if you have provided all necessary documentations for their record per their SOP.>>

BS.  I have not face any this kind of situation.  In fact, pay slip is always optional.  If this happen, I just tell the Hiring Manager to get the HR to adjust the offer letter without this condition. 

Now, do you REALLY know what you are talking about or you just dream this out??

Dreamer

Starbucki,

It is a "requirement" that can be bypassed.  Only a HR SCUMBAG will believe that it is important enough to stop someone from being hired.

STUPID people that work with HR SCUMBAG will be underpaid.  Meanwhile...

This is Malaysia aka Bolehland.  Most laws are not enforced to begin with.  So, you BELIEVE that  all requirements will be followed??  Which country do you live in??

Dreamer

Starbucki,

The ONLY RELEVANT QUESTION here is are you one of those HR SCUMBAG?? If not, why are you so interested in getting people underpaid??

Dreamer

Starbucki,

And, your view is RELEVANT and USEFUL because

1) You are a HR SCUMBAG and you want to underpay people??

Or,

2) You do not know how to say NO in not providing pay slip.  Hence, other should say YES too.

I tell people where and how I come into my point of view.  As for YOU???

What makes your point of view useful?? Do you have any experience in saying NO to begin with??  Or, you DARE NOT try to begin with??

Answer this SIMPLE and DIRECT question.

Dreamer

Yes that should be the question they should be asking the employee instead of our payslips. Many companies are judging people through their pay, but not their expertise and caliber or the capability of their skills.

Of course his next potential employer should judge through the current pay. When you are earning 20k at peak and you moved to a job that pays lesser, you cannot expect people to judge you base on your 20k job isn't it? And when you accepted a job that pays lesser, you showed that you willing to settle for less, irregardless of the reasons you took up the job. It does not justify, even with common sense.