this is a do-u-agree-with-me / what-would-you-do-if-you-were-me thread.

I been unemployed for almost half a year because of what i done, rejecting all the call that asking for current and expected salary.
There is not a single call that don't ask for my salary info. This has been making my parent and me very angry and frustrated.

so any way to get job from company that don't ask for salary info?


P/S: 2 years IT industry working experience.

I dont think so. All company will ask for your last drawn salary, why you want to hide your salary from your employer?
How about you think like that, will you accept a job without knowing the salary to be offered?

This post has been edited by imyourlimbeh: Jul 20 2011, 04:54 PM

If the company who is keen to hire you, they want to find out whether your asking salary will be too high to be considered or not before they short list you to be called for interview. They probably have many other candidates to choose from and hence they dont want to waste their time and your time if you are asking for a unreasonable salary later on. I do not foresee what's wrong for giving them your salary info as with 2 years experience, it is still pretty much remain at standard market value unless you have special skills or qualification or you applying some unusual post. Else, they just want to double check to save you time and their time.

well done. keep it up.

Probably TS wants to go for interview first before negotiating the salary. Like me, i dont need to ask the salary and i will go for interview to find out the job first, if i like the job, then, i will take up the job if the salary offer is acceptable for me. If not acceptable, i will just decline the job offered, and if they really want me after interviewed me and because i fit in very well to their post, they will call you and re-negotiate with you. At least i did this many years ago and rejected them 2 times and the 3rd time they calling me and offering the salary scale near to the top scale for my position at that time. Unless you are out of job, else you wont have such bargaining power, or you have lots of $$$ to back u up while you are still unemployed.

I want to a company that offer me the salary based on my technical/soft skills and my presentation during the F2F interview.
most of the call/email i received required me to write down the salary first before the company will proceed to interview me.



the thing is most company will offer you salary based on your last drawn salary + XX% which is true 90% of the company I interviewed. I still have money left for a few months.

Maybe you should give them a range... not to be too specific... at least the employer hv some idea beforehand.

Current Salary - sure, go ahead and hide. But expected salary imo if the company asks, then you should give. From an employer perspective, especially for junior-level hires, this would give me an up front indication of whether your salary expectations are within what I'm looking to pay. If your expectation higher than what I think you're worth, then we don't need to waste time going through interview and all that, no?

Look, even if I want to post a job opening into Jobstreet, they require me to put the salary range

you are correct that company dun wan waste time,but they already put out the salary range.


there are company that advertised their salary range, since they put out their salary range. I gave my salary expectation at the lowest range.They still ask for my last drawn salary.

biar mati kebuluran, jangan putih mata.

your salary is P&C and is none of other business.

your expected salary is for them to offer, do not undermine your worth by putting a value.

in any case, i am interested to see the outcome of your tale.

If you dont state your salary, and they decide to hire you, what if they offer you the salary that lower than your last drawn salary since you did not indicate to them. Will you accept that or you start to tell them you are drawing much more than that in your last employment? Will you?

What if you are now working in the HR department and you are doing the hiring job, what would you do if there are some people who apply the job and never stated their present salary and expected salary. Imagine you have 100 applicants and you need to hire one or two. Who will you call for interview? Remember, for junior staffs, almost everyone out there are same. If i pick who to come to interview, if got attached with a photo and if "leng lui", sure will get a call for interview....

biar mati kebuluran, jangan putih mata <-- ape maksud ayat ini?

now, what should I do?

A. give out all my salary info --- and get any freaking job available
B. only give out expected salary
C. still proceed as usual, still have 3 months reserve left.

Many are just junior HR staffs follow company SOP to do things lar. Actually, i can teach you a trick, you can bluff them your salary mah if you worry....later if they find out, say may be mistake lor.....by then, you have achieve your aim for going to F2F interview and do your presentation liao lor....happy ending????

my friend.

if you took any job that came along 6 months ago, you'd at least have 6 months of gaji and epf.

but since you chose to hold your stand on not giving out salary info, and since you can afford it, i suggest you make this an example case study of how one can get a good job without having to divulge p&c info in the malaysian job market.

who knows, your case might be inspiration to many candidates to stop giving out their salary info, and no longer be underpaid.

in the candidate's circle, you will be legend.

for what it's worth, it's typically HR who causing all this trouble. When I wanna hire a person I don't care what his last drawn salary is. But HR will campur tangan and say nono we must know what is his last drawn salary so that we can benchmark here and there and don't overpay him or whatever.

If you have done it for half a year and no results, then you just have to go with the flow. If you have no leverage, you have to follow what the customer wants.

Eventhough there are some members here who have advised against revealing your current pay, you have to realize that your skillset has to be 100% better than the rest of the competition to do so.

But it is your decision.

typical fail mindset of HR here.

they already have a bloody budget/salary range.

last time i always *** kau those HR who are scared to "overpay". why cant you just assume the candidate was underpaid? why cant you use the probation period to gauge his worth? whats the point of hiring someone "first time right" if you already wrong from the start by using their current salary as baseline?


lets assume OP walks the walk.

Like someone said, if they are hungry, eventually they will eat, if they are full, whatever food you put on the table, they will say not good taste. Let them learn it thru the hard way.

---

Added on July 20, 2011, 5:59 pmHallo, that is HR's job and if they dont do that, they might be out of job....

This post has been edited by Tigerr: Jul 20 2011, 05:59 PM

1. OP has held his stand for 6 months. if he lets go, all is for vain. the evil Underpaying Employers will win once again.

2. HR job is to make bonus and increment calculations from simple math into complex number theory. Paying candidates market rate / what they are worth, is not HR's job.

Tommy,you might able to consider this candidate or guide him/her,I am believe you are from IT too.

But one thing is for sure lah. Once the employer knows that you are jobless for 6 months, they know you have no leverage.

actually i dun get why need to get angry, and i dun get why your parent need to get angry

I would be more interested to see what some forumers who are against providing current salary have to say.

To TS and other readers,

During F2F interview, many people here will say: Fork, Fart, Pork, my current salary/package is P&C, cr@p, sheet, MYOB, already written in resume, etc.

To me, it is a test to field these questions:
(1) What is your current salary ?
(2) What is your expected salary ?

Then I will watch closely (Mr. Bean eyes) on the candidate facial expression, body language, muscle twitch, smile/fake smile, etc.

Whatever numbers you give me is fine with me. Based on my own unknown judgement, the candidate will either pass/fail this interview, if he/she/he-she manages to reach until here with both parties still interested.

I have candidates who request RM100 higher only, and also some few k higher. There is nothing wrong to me, but based on the interview, resume skills and experience, the numbers may be reasonable/unreasonable to me.

This is risky in a certain way. If I found out you make the mistake (whether genuinely or not), this reduce your chance of success. I want someone who is careful and not make mistake, although to err is human.

HR is very free. Normally if the OL is stuck in HR for >3 working days, I'll go and ask them to issue immediate, otherwise I'll raise to management. Two result:
(1) OL is ready before end of day
(2) OL is not out, and one reason as per above.

If #2, then I'll raise to management to fight for it to ignore HR delaying it. So far management sides with me for all cases presented and give whatever number I want (no budget). But in due course, I need to make the candidate to deliver results for me. No such thing as lunch with free dessert.

No. Most (not all) current graduates (should it be categorize as Gen X or Y ? ) have their family to fall back upon. They can choose not to work and stay home for long periods of time.

When you are jobless, your current salary is RM0.

If all HRs think like you all, how good it will be!!


Halo boi boi, do you want to interview me? Your company got vacancies? You really can speak louder than the HR?? Good Good!

when you are jobless, your current experience is zero.

why make a fuss out of this? Simple, put a salary that you think u deserve and simply say its negotiable.

the fuss is the interviewer can ask anything , including when the candidate loss her virginity, why the heck she not working for so long, recovering from abortion or wat?

but cannot ask the past salary.

the parent get angry, she get angry.

You don't have bargaining power given that you have only 2 years of work experience. To be honest, asking candidates for their expected salaries is how the industry works in Malaysia. Back in the U.S., they don't ask for your expected salary. They give you the offer based on your experience and your performance during the interview. It's just different culture.

because we have scumbags faking their previous salary numbers,
no skills but wanna ask high salary numbers,
expects employers to pay high just because they've been doing their routine job for X years...bla bla bla

Let's face it, this IS Malaysia.

It is a collateral. I know my boss would like to do e.g. project A and B. Therefore I took the opportunity to discuss and asked me to hire candidates to fill up the positions.

I hire candidates at higher budget than usual, but it is still cheaper than hiring in US, Europe, ANZ, etc. I tell my boss that I'll deliver project A and B for him/her. The collateral is boss must help me get it approved from top/senior management (CEO/CFO), i.e. over rule local/regional HR, finance and whoever/whatever that stands in the way.

Once hired, I'm already knee-deep in water, as I need to deliver the projects. This is where the candidates will have to prove him/herself to me, otherwise Keluar sign. -> Life will not be easy for candidates here during the project period.

If I deliver, boss can brag in front of top management / BoD. He'll get the fame + rewards. He gets promoted/increment/bonus. So far, in all the companies and bosses I work for, they will support my chain down the line. I get the reward effects as well, and from there, again I will fight for the monetary rewards for those under me.

If I can't deliver, keluar sign for me It's a bigger risk for me to take, than the risk for the candidates under me. So far not happen yet.

The point is, slightly diverging from topic, the manager should be bold enough to stand up for his/her own department.

I wish you are my boss. Any vacancy?

Not reveal your last draw salary and expected salary is only apply when you have a decent job on hand, you're not desperate to get a job and especially in IT, your technical skill MUST be above average.

With only 2 years experience in IT, I don't see the bargain power here.
When we go over the technical test, if the candidate able to provide an outstanding result (even correct the mistake in the test sheet), we will not take him/her if our budget is lower than what his/her skill worth. If the position is critical, we will ask management for exception and provide better salary just to keep him/her and avoid the candidate job hop after certain months (finding a good candidate is hard, the cost of hiring and the time for the new candidate to pick up is expensive).

correct correct correct....

Aside from not revealing your last drawn. How about commission and allowances?

How about budget handling? Is it advisable to state the amount that one handles since every company and job position differs from one another.

Should we reveal this as a reference?

Thanks.

I'll always ask the interviewer for this position budget. They'll review to you the range

Thanks knwong for the answer. However the question in mind is when the interviewer ask of my previous company's budget I'm handling, should I reveal it or remain P&C? How about my previous company allowance and commission that I gain, should that be reveal during my interview.

i don't understand why it's so hard for you to reveal the salary and stuff. It's not like they will tell everyone about it. If the salary is ok, take it. You have been unemployed for 6 months... If you still want to merajuk and stuff, please continue. Seriously youngsters nowadays are too pampered...

p/s: i'm from gen y

if you reveal your salary, you lose the bargain power later..
they will lowball you..

sendiri bodo lepastu tanya kenapa tanam anggur....


olang tanya gaji pasal mau tau boley bayar ka tak boley bayar....

the longer u wait , the less chance u have in finding jobs.......... remember, u r not the only one looking for a job...... there r thousands more ....... btw nothing wrong with revealing ur salary n fix allowance to company, cause they wont bother much anyway

not really... unless the salary that you wanted is far apart from your last salary, i don't think we will lose the bargaining power. Normally people change jobs to get higher salary. (if we do not count other factors)

they probably want to know the market rate, hence they asked your last drawn salary.

Haha. Just give. Adoi.

True. Every position will have a budget allocated for that. Be persistence in getting them to reveal that range. If it's lower than your current pay, politely walk away.

If it's higher, muscle your way in

For those who really revealed your salary, you definitely loose out

how they actually check your last drawn? call back to your previous company HR?

dont think company HR will reveal.

they cant check at all imo.

Yes, to all of the people seeking for better employment, please do not reveal your current salary . You lose your bargaining power once you reveal your current salary .

More often then not, HR calling people just to check out the current rate i.e. your salary. as they are often very naive in current market rate of others employed people .

YOU ONLY REVEAL YOUR LAST DRAWN SALARY IF YOU ARE SO DESPERATE TO GET OUT OF YOUR CURRENT JOB OR YOU ARE JOBLESS. YOU HAVE NO LEVERAGE HERE. PERIOD.

At the end of the day, the hiring manager, your future boss has the final say in determining whether he wants to hire you or not . If you are asking too much of his budgeted salary for a candidate , he can justify to HR if he thinks you are worth it . if you are asking too low from his budgeted salary, he will offer you, mostly likely of you have asked for , amount RM XXXX , without paying your the budgeted salary because HR will always say why pay more than when the candidate asks for ? HR KP1 is always low-ball the candidates, their intention is to hire the perfect candidate with the lowest price-tag.

The equivalent analogy,

The Retailer ( nike show seller ) will/cay never reveal the price he bought from the Nike OEM . He/she will never tell the potential buyers say the cost is RM 100 and he wants to make a 20% profit, wanna sell you for RM120 . You all should learn from this when you go for interview with a job in hand.

NEVER TELL YOUR CURRENT SALARY AND EXPECTED SALARY.

This is speaking of experience. Last time I asked for 30% of my current salary without revealing my current salary. THEY HIRED ME . only later I found out later that they have budget for even another 40% of what I have requested.
See my point ? If I never had revealed any figures, I could have got 60% more or less.

BOTTOM LINE, please don't be so naive .

1. just tell honestly your last drawn salary. the agent just need something to fill in/guideline only. you can always negotiate your salary after success interview.

2. if you uncomfortable to discuss salary, just ask them what is the salary range they offer, and take the middle range.

3. the importance of interview is to make you like the job and the interviewer like you. salary can come second.

One have to look at the current situation la...

Just because someone advice you not to disclose your last salary, you blindly follow that advice.

Since there are thousands applying for the same job, all the HR executive needs to do is move on the next candidate if you chose not to reveal your last withdrawn salary.

Well, unless you are someone with a great skill that the company desperately wants you, by all means do not reveal your last withdrawn salary.

I think this practice is very wrong and unfortunately has become an accepted HR practice in Malaysia. Your previous salary history is between you and your previous employer. HR staff requesting this are simply being oppressive towards the new candidate. By putting your existing salary on the table you are giving the employer the upper hand which will leave you out in the cold come salary negotiation. Hr departments should hire you based on the quality of your CV, your previous experience, skills and interview quality. those attributes should contribute to a fair offer based on Market expectations. Previous salary should have nothing to do with it. This culture is only acceptable because Malaysians allow it to be acceptable. As a lot of posts have said, if you say no then they will move on to the next candidate. Well if all candidates refused then whose market is it? You all need to band together in order to effect a change. As a hiring manager if I requested to interview someone and HR said that I cannot see this person as they will not reveal their previous salary I would insist to see them. Stand up for yourselves Malaysians.

And to the people in this thread saying they can use this to screen out candidates that do not fit the budget, this is BS, the expected salary is what effects your budget not what I'm currently earning.

Finally this is contributing to Malaysian poor income standards, Part of someones plan to keep you poor and dumb.



This post has been edited by mixhali: Oct 10 2014, 04:38 PM

Well... do allow me to share my opinion why employer is asking your current salary and expected salary...

I was once annoyed with such questions too. but when i start becomes the employer side. That is important for a company to know the budget they need to hire someone for that position.

Besides, if everyone is get 40% jump on every time they change jobs... Guess who is at the losing end??? the employers, not a single company but the industry as a whole. In order to keep the competition in term of cost, they will want to keep a certain % of increase from your previous salary.

As the area and industry that i'm working for, the employer will offer max 20% more from your previous salary. of course there will be exceptional cases. But in general that's the real job market.

Try change your perspective from employee to employer, you get to know all the reasons for them to ask. i would say not only Malaysia asks for current and expected salary, i believe the Asia culture works that way.

That's just my experience and opinion. One day you have become the Employer... you feel the pain... for paying too much for someone...

Spot on! Perhaps we can apply some forms of law, e.g. Personal Data Protection Act 2010 into this so that we can come to terms on the requesting salary issue. Anyone?


That's a total bull. You pay based on what you can afford. If you have a budget that can only get you a Proton Saga, do you expect to buy a BMW at the proton price? This is how market works, and how a job market should work. If every employer offers 20% increment from the previous salary, what is the point of job interview? You can just simply call that employee/applicant and offer him/her the standard 20% raise based on his/her relevant work experience and banzai, you have got your new staff.

This post has been edited by abc2005: Oct 10 2014, 07:12 PM

Unless you can control gomen, if not how you want to pass law based on your own opinion?

The problem is, the value of human being is very subjective. There is no fixed price on our heads, nor do we have specs like proton sagas do. If no one revealed their salary, it would be even worst, employers would be so afraid of overpaying that they lower their pay range instead to compensate,

How do they judge your value and decide how much you are worth?

Availability of your particular talent - It doesnt matter how much work you do, how much money you help the company earn. What matters is how many people else can do your job. Data entry people often work very hard, and help company earn money (no data entry = nothing come out), but they are paid so little because so many others can do the same job. If you dont want to do data entry for 2k, they can just hire the next person, or the next, or the next.

To be highly paid you need to distinguish and differentiate yourself from others. A special skill in a particular niche is the best. Best if no one knows what you are doing, how you do it, but that you must do it or company will fail, then you can demand XXXXXXX and goyang kaki.

This is why people work smart. If you data entry everyday boss wont appreciate it, if you do 1 mistake only also boss will marah. But your other "lazy" colleague everyday run around learning new stuff but not really doing his real work (data entry), so when boss got problem he know how to solve and also give boss credit for it. Guess who can get the promotion.

The point of job interview is too see whether or not you are suited to the post. Even if they want to offer you 20% increment fixed also need to see whether you are suited or not first what. Its actually better that they ask people to show their pay slip. Like that they have more information to make decision and pay people less (maybe its HR KPI) Then when you dont show, they will have more budget and can afford to pay you more! If everyone dont show and demand more, hiring budget always the same. So either everyone gets paid less, or they hire less people and you OT till 12am everyday.

This is already a law (PDPA 2010) that has been passed and gazetted within the laws of Malaysia. For more information please click HERE. Please refer the Section 8. Disclosure Principle in regards with the personal data disclosure. Anyone has the right not to disclose his or her personal information to any third party other than the authorities.

That is the one and only reason for interview, to look for suitable candidates to fill the posts and solve the problems. Why do employers have to worry about overpaying when they are already paying within their budgets in the first place? If the employers come clean with their expectations, I don't think it would be an issue to find a candidate that is willing to work within the employers expectations, and saving both sides the pain of heartaches. If no one is willing to apply for the post, the employer should know what is happening in the market.

I repeat. That is the whole point of the interview process. You judge the candidates' values and capabilities through interviews, not on their previous salaries. If employers are having issues judging that, I highly doubt their abilities to lead the team and steer the company direction.

You kinda mixed both points together, thus creating some confusions here. First, I do agree the point that it doesn't matter how much work you do. They might be some kind of works that are of little value to the companies. Someone might be working 24/7 and yet the values he churns out can be negligible.
However, you completely missed the point why companies hire in the first place, which is to help the company make more money or contribute some values in some senses. If you ignore the ones who helped you to earn monies, the peril is yours and your company to suffer if the bottom lines get affected in the end.

This is not relevant to the topic. However, as many pointed out here, you hire for the work that you need get done with the range of values that are worth the range of those who are willing to accept the offers.


You are partly correct to say that job interview is to see the suitability of the candidates to fill the posts. As we all know, the employer already has a budget for hiring. Why is it so hard for them to select or reject a candidate if they already know the candidate's expectations? The request for salary slip is completely irrelevant here.

This post has been edited by abc2005: Oct 11 2014, 12:24 AM

Exactly my point of view, 100% agree.

Very simple only, If you have the budget of RM2000 to hire a person, Just offer him to whoever you think is perfect for the job . Please don't hide the fact that you just wanna low-ball the person. Just admit that you wished you could find a water fish for RM 1500 then you could save RM500 for whatever use and the person is so naive to be happy. Please. You just wanna low-ball the candidate.

If you asks your vendor how much his real cost is and request him to tell you how much profit he would like to make?
The answer is HELL NO, not single vendor is stupid/idiot enough to do that.

If you asks your (candidate) how much his current salary and request him to tell you how much profit he would like to make ?
The answer is there are simply too many naive people out there, too crazy.

At most, a vendor will give you a price , you want him, pay that.
At most, a candidate should say his ideal(expected) salary,you want him, pay that.

abc2005 's argument is very valid . To all of the fresh graduate out there, please learn from here .

Just because I have a budget of RM 2,000 doesnt meant I want to pay someone "perfect" for the job RM 2,000. That is why HR always have a range for a position, like RM 1,500 to Rm 2,500.

Maybe I meet a worker A who has perfect pointer, prior work experience (impressive previous work resume), smooth talker, polite, convincing, I would surely like to offer him the highest range of my budget RM 2,500 to try and attract him.

Then I meet a worker B who isnt that good, so i offer him RM 1,500.

Both will be able to do that job, becos my company so stronk that sales automatically keep rolling in bla bla bla, But worker A obviously has the capability to maybe even exceed my expectations, or have the potential to rise in my company. While I feel worker B does not have such potential. Yes, both can do the entry level job I am advertising for RM 2,000. But human beings have different capacity, and so I lowball B in order to have the budget to hire A.

Asking for payslip is just part of my evaluation, like many have already said in this thread, it IS NOT MANDATORY for you to show it, but employer IS ALLOWED to ask for it. It is up to you whether you want to give or not. There is no right or wrong here. Saying the employer is wrong to ask for it (unethical/lowballing) is false. Payslip reflects a persons value quite accurately, especially the longer you work.

Going back to my example:

Let say I ask for worker A's payslip and I notice that his pay always around RM 1,000 to RM 1,500 for the past 10 years, while job hopping around. Suddenly I might have to rethink my evaluation. Why was he always paid so low? Was there a problem in his previous company? Has he perfected the art of interviewing after 10 years and is trying to con me now?

Then worker B refuse to give and I immediately hire worker C, who just come in, roughly same standard as worker B and is willing to show his payslip.

Clearly, whether or not you show your payslip is up to you, and can be good or bad depending on the circumstances. It is part of your evaluation, and is another form of the question "tell me more about yourself". You can tell them, or you can choose NOT to tell them. Problem is when you choose not to tell them, what will they think?

Bottom line:

Employer is RIGHT and SHOULD ask for your payslip. You CAN CHOOSE whether you want to give or not.

In most circumstances, showing your payslip means you are on the losing end of negotiations, but please also consider what you lose by choosing not to show your payslip. Right or wrong, it all depends on the circumstances and how you handle the situation.

Well... if you think running a business and sustain it are just as simple as you think then... may be you should start a business and share with me how to certain your company growth and future forecast.

Employer is not low-ball the candidates, but just to get the best out of the budget they can. When the candidate proved that he is capable, we do not hesitate in adjusting his salary after his probation. That's most HR is doing.

LY115,

<<Well... if you think running a business and sustain it are just as simple as you think then..>>

That is YOUR PROBLEM. The employee's problem is to get the best deal that they can. The employee is running a business of selling their time and service for money in order to feed their own family.

<<When the candidate proved that he is capable, >>

Why?? It goes both way. Unless and until the employers prove themselves to be SINCERE and HONEST by disclosing their salary range ahead of time, why should any candidate with LEVERAGE want to deal with them to begin with??

If the EMPLOYER is not willing to be UPFRONT and HONEST during hiring process, COMMON SENSE will tell you that they will not treat you any better later.

<<Employer is not low-ball the candidates, but just to get the best out of the budget they can.>>

Which translate to paying as LITTLE as possible even though they can pay a lot more by their budget.

It is VERY SIMPLE.

It goes both way. You can play game. But, ANYONE that is capable will avoid you and stop wasting time with YOU. Or they will leave as soon as they know you could pay them more. YOUR CHOICE and YOUR LOSS.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Oct 11 2014, 09:26 AM

edited

This post has been edited by cunt: Oct 11 2014, 11:15 AM

We know why a company does it. To get the best return on their expenditure as possible.

We just don't know why lots of employees are NOT doing it. lt is a negotiation after all. Both parties owe it to themselves to negotiate hard using whatever leverage they have. And giving away one's salary (previous drawn or expected) is basically giving away most of one's leverage. The only leverage remaining (if the offer isn't good enough) is to walk away (or threaten to).

This is still not hiding the fact you wanna low-ball the candidate .

You do not need his current/previous salary to offer him, you budget a job according to your offered job responsibilities. you should offer to the perfect candidate (whoever you think he is ) according to the budget.

Employer is not WRONG to ask for your pay slip, but his intention of doing such is to low-ball the candidate . He should evaluate the candidate through the structured/proper interview .

However I agree that if only a small portion of people refuse to reveal,they might lose out . Common sense , the employer will question if others can do , why cant you?To me, there are just too many (naive) water fishes out there.

Have you done any recruitment interview on behalf of your dept or company before?

I means for those normal interview that follow HR protocol?

KOHTT,

<<Have you done any recruitment interview on behalf of your dept or company before?>>

Yes.

<<I means for those normal interview that follow HR protocol?>>

No.

Why should I??

HR is the ENEMY to GOOD Hiring Manager. HR only care about saving money. It does not care whether the RIGHT PERSON is hired. Meanwhile, if the WRONG PERSON is hired, the HIRING MANAGER is RESPONSIBLE and will be fired for that. HR is not RESPONSIBLE for the mess.

In fact, we (good hiring managers) coach our candidate how to bypass the system. In most cases, we recruit our own people bypassing the whole system. After we decide who to hire, then, we get the candidate to fill out job application form. This is HOW most of the jobs are filled. We do not advertise the open position to begin with until we know who to hire. Or else, HR will make a mess out of this. Only if we cannot find anyone via our social network, then, we pass the position to HR.

Dreamer

Let me rephase my question.

Have you interview the candidates (together with HR or without) that you have not meet before? Someone that you only seen for the first time in the interview and he is not recommend by anyone that you know.

I fully agree it is better to get someone through your contact, your old staff, network etc. Let said the company has 1000 staff or even more 2,000 Staff. Obvious it is impossible to get in all the staff in through our network/ friends. That's when, we need advertise either through newspapers, websites, roadshows.

Anyway, I don't think that forummer here are in the position to by passby HR in their job search effort. Otherwise there was not need for him to ask this question here as per this thread. (as mentioned previously by someone in another thread)

KOHTT,

<<Have you interview the candidates (together with HR or without) that you have not meet before? Someone that you only seen for the first time in the interview and he is not recommend by anyone that you know.>>

I had worked in the industry for 20+ years. So, before I interviewed anyone, I would had used linkedin to check out the candidate's background via my social network. If they do not pass my background check, they would not have an interview from me.

<<Let said the company has 1000 staff or even more 2,000 Staff.>>

A hiring manager only hire 10 to 20 people. A director hire 10 to 20 manager. A VP hire 10 to 20 directors. HR hire no one. So, nobody is hiring 1,000 to 2,000 people.

<<Anyway, I don't think that forummer here are in the position to by passby HR in their job search effort. >>

People that DO NOT KNOW how to play the game cannot do it. And, even a SENIOR person may not know how to do it if they DO NOT LEARN.

Let's say you are a fresh graduate. You have friends and families that are working. You have seniors in your college that graduated before you and are working now. So, unless you live in a cave and socialize with NO ONE, you know somebody that work in some company NOW. And, those people know even more people than you do.

A career minded and hard working fresh graduate would had reach out to all his and her contacts and check who is hiring and what they are looking for. What are the job opening and requirement?? Go out lunch with as many people in the industry as possible.

In fact, a SMART person would had started doing this 2 years before he / she is graduated.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Oct 14 2014, 03:14 AM

What about in terms of "expected salary"? If you answer the expected salary in specific, does that means sealing your negotiating card and what should be the wiser answer to this?

The best scenario from a interviewee perspective is never mention anything in regards to figure, just let the interviewer spill the beans. Once you have given your expected salary, HR DEFINITELY wont offer you more.

another way is to go thru a reputable recruiter. just pass them your cv, and your expected salary. recruiter will know whether the position budget fits your expected.

dont talk about salary during interview. let recruiter settle it. when discuss salary just discuss thru recruiter.

however, before getting offer letter, u will most likely still need to show your payslip to the hiring company. but by that time your numbers are already agreed already. if they wanna change the terms, just back out lor.