This is as true as it gets.


The salary should be based on the size of the job, not the size of your previous job.

If you take a new job that is twice the size of your old job, then you should be paid twice as much (simplistically speaking).

The only reason why you would agree to an offer of your old salary + 20% (for eg.) is because your new job is actually not more than 20% larger than your old job. Even then, if you tell them your old salary, how can you be sure they wouldn't have offered you 40% more salary to do 20% more work?

And if the new job is actually twice the size, then you would have shot yourself in the foot if you encouraged them (by telling your previous salary) to only offer you 20% more salary. If that's the case, you just wasted a potentially good offer and your time & effort.

In the finance dept of the MNC I'm with, our salaries are based on the type of work (accounts technician to Controller to CFO etc) X the amount of work (based on revenue and volume). If I am reassigned from managing a business worth $10 million revenue to managing one worth $1 billion revenue, I'll make damn sure they pay me the entire $990 million differential (according to our pay scale, of course) rather than just accept a standard previous salary + 20%. Ditto if it's a promotion in terms of type of work.

The idea is not based on getting more than what you want.

The idea is to get as much as possible of what they are willing to pay, so that you don't leave any opportunity or upside on the table. You know how much you want, but you don't know how much they are willing to pay. How much they are willing to pay is more often than not, higher than what you wanted initially (namely because many of you value a new job based on what your old employer paid you to do your old job. Not based on what the new employer is willing to pay someone (NOT ONLY YOU) to do the new job).

And if the maximum of what the new employer is willing to pay happens to be less than what you want, you can always decline the offer. No harm done.

But once you reveal what you earned previously OR what you want now, you will NEVER find out what maximum they were willing to pay.

This post has been edited by seantang: Oct 5 2014, 10:15 PM

if you don't tell, how is HR going to find out?

Yes, I know. And my point was if the candidate doesn't tell, how will the interviewing company find out?

No company HR will reveal their employees' salaries to 3rd parties, unless it's the authorities asking. Do people really think that company HR will reveal personal details to whoever simply calls them on the phone?

You are assuming that HR people will believe some cold caller is a 'fellow HR practitioner'. Not every HR person knows every other HR person. I don't believe the 'spirit of collegiality and goodwill' you mention is ever given anonymously over the phone. When you're dying something unethical, you tend to be more cautious, no?

As for CVs,.. if you ever had your details on Jobstreet, Linkedin etc... your cv is already out there. And I think you'll find that it's the recruiters who are behind this, not company HR. Company HR only have access to,.. well, their company and its employees. Hardly a lucrative source of cvs. And guess who gives their cvs and salary information to recruiters? You.

This post has been edited by seantang: Dec 14 2014, 07:56 PM

Unless the new company intends to pay candidates a salary based on their old job scope in another company in return for doing a new job scope in their company... why is this a problem? Shouldn't an employer pay according to what they want people to do now, rather than what they used to do?

I beg to differ. The company HR "community" is dispersed, uncoordinated and unregulated. The smaller companies (small listed, SME and below) are all over the place. It's not like there's a widely accepted professional association or regulating organisation bringing practitioners together and disseminating common information, like for accountants, or lawyers etc. And it's not like everybody in company HR went to 'HR school' unlike the professions. So, no, I don't believe they have much contact with each other at all. Much less unethically and probably illegally share confidential salary information. The larger MNC HR directors probably know one another, but they have the highest standards of safekeeping confidential information as well.

Well, I'm just saying that just because most people don't (know how to) negotiate, persuade and evade - don't call it hardball. It's basically softball, but most people have no balls.

This post has been edited by seantang: Dec 15 2014, 10:15 AM

If you were HR, would you take the trouble to go to EPF office, go up to the counter, slip some cash under a piece of paper to the counter clerk and whisper hoarsely that you need to 'obtain' the EPF contribution information on so and so?

How many people get interviewed everyday, and how many EPF counter clerks are there? How much time do you think HR people have?

These delusions are getting more and more outlandish.

If it were so easy to get confidential information on a mass basis (as they are many, many, many candidates to get information on), these company HR wouldn't have ask, threaten and cajole candidates to hand over their salary slips.

If an employer felt compelled to go to the effort, trouble and lengths you described to get information on a candidate, I think the company wants him and the candidate has considerable negotiation leverage. If so,.. there's no need for him to accept 20%+previous salary, and there'll be no need for the company to find out what his previous salary was, and there'll be no benefit for the company to offer him 20%+previous salary as they need him anyway.

This post has been edited by seantang: Dec 15 2014, 10:25 AM

Ummm... that is about the only piece of information that company HR will release over a phone call.

Don't need a payslip for that.

This post has been edited by seantang: Dec 15 2014, 11:28 AM

It's legal and ethical for your employer to inform relevant people who ask, if that's what you're asking. If someone knows your full name and they ask your current company if you are an employee, your employer is entitled to answer that question if they want to.

Unlike providing salary information and other personal information like contact details, financial details (like bank accounts or EPF information), confirming that you are an employee is not illegal or unethical.

This post has been edited by seantang: Dec 15 2014, 09:27 PM

Same as Malaysia. The prospective employer will definitely ask you for your salary slip, because that's the only way they can find out your salary.

It's not a policy. It's a negotiation. The employer does all they can to get the upper hand. You must expect them to. They are just protecting their interests.

The question is why aren't we taking this as a negotiation and protecting our own interests?

The first word that came out of your mouth was 'policy'. You have already given up the negotiation if you consider what your adversary wants as 'policy' and what you want as a 'violation' of that policy. The other party already has the upper hand, high ground and moral authority over you.

That's why everything is a bell curve. Some people are winners, some people are losers and most are just average. Guess who goes round complaining that they are victims over and over again...