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 New employer asking for my latest payslips, wondering on why ?

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hercules899
post Oct 5 2014, 12:10 PM

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Yes, to all of the people seeking for better employment, please do not reveal your current salary . You lose your bargaining power once you reveal your current salary .

More often then not, HR calling people just to check out the current rate i.e. your salary. as they are often very naive in current market rate of others employed people .

YOU ONLY REVEAL YOUR LAST DRAWN SALARY IF YOU ARE SO DESPERATE TO GET OUT OF YOUR CURRENT JOB OR YOU ARE JOBLESS. YOU HAVE NO LEVERAGE HERE. PERIOD.

At the end of the day, the hiring manager, your future boss has the final say in determining whether he wants to hire you or not . If you are asking too much of his budgeted salary for a candidate , he can justify to HR if he thinks you are worth it . if you are asking too low from his budgeted salary, he will offer you, mostly likely of you have asked for , amount RM XXXX , without paying your the budgeted salary because HR will always say why pay more than when the candidate asks for ? HR KP1 is always low-ball the candidates, their intention is to hire the perfect candidate with the lowest price-tag.

The equivalent analogy,

The Retailer ( nike show seller ) will/cay never reveal the price he bought from the Nike OEM . He/she will never tell the potential buyers say the cost is RM 100 and he wants to make a 20% profit, wanna sell you for RM120 . You all should learn from this when you go for interview with a job in hand.

NEVER TELL YOUR CURRENT SALARY AND EXPECTED SALARY.

This is speaking of experience. Last time I asked for 30% of my current salary without revealing my current salary. THEY HIRED ME . only later I found out later that they have budget for even another 40% of what I have requested.
See my point ? If I never had revealed any figures, I could have got 60% more or less.

BOTTOM LINE, please don't be so naive . rclxub.gif

This post has been edited by hercules899: Oct 5 2014, 12:12 PM
hercules899
post Oct 6 2014, 01:39 PM

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QUOTE(fearless_kiki @ Oct 5 2014, 12:52 PM)
how do you know you can get more? hmm.gif
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The Senior in the company told me his pay when he was going to leave the company, he joined about 6 months and I was only about a month.
.

Later, on my working computer ( workstation ), the previous employee , just left before I joined , scanned his payslip and saved his payslip there. The IT team did not get the job done i.e. cleaning all the personal files. before handing over to a new employee. typical china-man working culture . Thats what I could conclude that I could have asked for 60% pay rise. whistling.gif

Both persons' figure tally perfectly . I was very regret when I knew theirs. Some more , the company bought the senior to pay of whatever he owned for his previous company .Guess what? after both persons are gone, I had to take over the messy and disorganized work of 2 person. So, LOGICALLY SPEAKING, I should have their salary combined ? Correct ?

This post has been edited by hercules899: Oct 6 2014, 01:46 PM
hercules899
post Oct 6 2014, 01:54 PM

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QUOTE(danielmckey @ Oct 6 2014, 09:50 AM)
Nowadays a lot of job seeker using a lot of bad tactic... Nothing new and no harm 4u...
If you payslip stated million of dollar then no need to give... If not just give...
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More like nowadays , too many chinaman-type towkays or management style in the market to low-ball employees .
This is what we call salary negotiation, bet you never heard of it .
hercules899
post Oct 6 2014, 02:21 PM

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QUOTE(danielmckey @ Oct 6 2014, 02:07 PM)
If these towkays not exist no job opening for us... biggrin.gif
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If there is no one working for these china-man towkays, there is no fancy car and mistress for these towkays .
hercules899
post Oct 7 2014, 08:45 PM

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QUOTE(KOHTT @ Oct 7 2014, 04:24 PM)
Set aside the connection, contact, bypass HR practice etc. I just give my opnion here for those who go through the normal recruitment process.....

From the employer's and HR perspective, reasons for getting the paid slips and request us to write down our present salary are as follows:

i) They want to confirm the salary that we get and stated in the application form. So that they can detect the candidate who tried to bluff their salary amount in the application form;

ii) They want to see our career progress and how much we have achieved in the past career. Salary level is one of the good indicator;

iii) The HR want to filter out those salary which is way beyond too high their budget or too low since the candidate has not achieved up to the level required. In that way, they don't need to waste time arrange interview and only aware during interview that our salary level does not suit their budget;

I am no too sure how other employer will view the candidate who insist don't want to give the payslip to them....but I believe the chance should be lower. Of course, there might be some desperate employer who still take in the candidates if cannot find one.

I myself recently look for another career opportunity.... There are column in the Jobstreet for the candidate to fill in the expected and present salary.   
After submitting our application, I can view the number applications for the jobs, other candidates' expected salary and their present job designation etc.

My 2 cents.
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Let me just ask you one question ?

Why cant an employer advertise a position with a price tag, a range which is visible to all the potential candicates . Just say he wants to hide an accountant with 3 to 5 years of experience and he is willing to pay only RM 3000 to RM 5000. Just set the criteria straight. Then , people with high salary will not bother to apply anymore and the low-salary worker will apply. Win-Win situation . Correct me if I am wrong, in the good old days of decades ago, big and MNCs companies in western always did that . Now? HR could have filtered out those high salary demander by doing so . Will you as an employer or HR do so ? Why not?

If you read through all the salary negotiation related articles, those who always say hiding your salary is equal to lying are always from HR background ONLY and occasionally the big boss. Pretty much one sided. They just wanna low-ball the candidate.

One last repeated questions , if you try to and ask a shoe retailer how much his buying cost from the original factory . Will/should he honestly tell you the figures? You as a boss should knew already why he wont and will not tell you. If you wanna buy with the price he requested ( expected salary ), he is happy to proceed. If not he will get other potential customers .

Again, i always believe that a professional HR and the hiring manager should be able to judge the potential of a candidate through an interview ( structured interview) . That is what an interview for . To let the candidate being judged through whatever questions and challenges or test you have on him. He should be not judged based on whatever he earned previously. He could be earning below market rate already just let the next employer to low ball him once the last drawn salary revealed.

One last most important question, you have the budget of RM4000 to hire a person. Would you pay him according to what you have budgeted once you have found a suitable candidate ? Why do you need to know what his current salary then only offer him ? Say his current is RM2000 and you will happily offer him RM 4000 ?No, right ? You will definitely offer him the standard 20% "job hopping market rate" . He will be too naive to be happy.
hercules899
post Oct 8 2014, 06:55 PM

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QUOTE(KOHTT @ Oct 8 2014, 04:06 PM)
I am not the HR practitioner. I get to know some of the recruitment process when my former company's HR was doing sloppy work in filtering out the candidate and I end up doing it for her. Different company may practice differently.

Anyway, I tot my comment is very much a common sense for experienced job seekers and don't expect big re-action from the forummer here. 

If you disagree with it, by all means not disclosing your expected/ present salary, not giving out the payslips during the interview and ask them their budgeted salary for the position during the interview etc.  Who know, it might work since there are some many different kind of company and interviewers....they may have recruitment exercises that are different from what I expected.

My opinion for your comment above is in blue colour.
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My reaction was not big, maybe just a long winded.
Anyway, your answer pretty much proved the only fact that HR/china-man boss would like to know a candidates currents salary is to low-ball him or her . Nothing more than that. You budget a post according to the responsibility given/together with the post in your company, not the as per the standard " 20% of job hopping increment practice " .
hercules899
post Oct 8 2014, 11:58 PM

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QUOTE(KOHTT @ Oct 8 2014, 11:43 PM)
Give you another tip, MNC's recruitment process are much more stringent than the chinaman company's, most of the time. biggrin.gif
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Noted, no point arguing further, maybe you have "eaten more salt then rice" than me. Only time will tell . brows.gif
hercules899
post Dec 12 2014, 06:12 PM

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QUOTE(mikealvas @ Dec 12 2014, 03:23 PM)
First off, read through the whole thread weeks ago before my interview.

I would like to thank dreamer for the advice as it worked like a charm. Got myself a sweet 60% increase in pay thanks to not putting a number/showing payslips.

It may not apply to everyone but, make sure you find it very offensive when the HR asks for it. The HR totally went for a 180 and said she'll call my previous company for information.
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Well done mate .
hercules899
post Dec 12 2014, 06:26 PM

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My advice to those fresh or only few years (1 or 2 years) working and currently looking for a career change .

Please do not be so naive and reveal your current salary to anyone, especially to the so called "headhunters" and HR of the companies . You are very naive and stupid in doing so.

I am speaking of my experiences of course.
hercules899
post Dec 16 2014, 09:33 PM

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QUOTE(Starbucki @ Dec 15 2014, 05:19 AM)
I am not talking about cold-callers. The HR community is quite tight knit, and especially within the same industry, what more in this age of virtual connectivity where communication works right immediately after meeting each other in conferences, seminars etc. Heck, HR could even verify your contributions to EPF to work out your gross if they are diligent enough.

As much as I do not agree that one's current salary is to be used as a benchmark for his next, HR people would just simply use it as a base. It is just the way things are being done. We can debate till the cows come home but ultimately it is the recruiter who call the shots unless you deal direct with hiring managers or the CXOs. For those lucky few who could get away with this, all power to them. I am just saying that unless one is willing to forgo the opportunity, then try by all means to play hardball with recruiters.
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I can simply assume you are working as HR or a personnel working closely with recruitment. There is no way a right minded HR in a company would simply give out his/her colleagues salary Figure .

You just imagine this a Malaysian simply call to Bank Negara Malaysia and ask for Zeti salary figure . Is the BNM HR so stupid to divulge Zeti salary? Are you kidding me? I am using Zeti as as example, Zeti can be substituted with BNM Senior Officials and entry level graduates .

Both HR people are equally stupid and have evil intentions if HR A calls HR B and both communicate truthfully . Then HR A would know HR B is trying to get HR A colleagues and , HR B would put the potential candidates at a very embarassing level. Then HR B would know HR A company salary pay scale.

You see,its so stupid.

Thats the reason why when a company asks for your payslip, Why? The company can then know your salary through you ONLY .

I know chances are there when HR from both sides can "pakat"/collaborating . But the chances are rare .

I am 28 year-old this year and this is speaking of my experiences of attending countless of interviews and working in my third company now.

For those reading this thread, pls dont be so naive to reveal your current salary.

PLEASE.

hercules899
post Dec 16 2014, 09:52 PM

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For those other silent readers of this thread,

Please do not reveal your current salary so easily .
Why?

1. You have absolutely no idea what your future company has gone through
to before interviewing you.
How many interviews you the HR conducted for the same position before you?
How many previous employees have left the very same position before you?
How many suitable candidates have turned down the very same position before you ?

2. You have absolutely no idea how much your skillsets is worse to that company ?

Lets say all of your possible future colleagues are only 3 year max using Mircrosoft Excel. Now the company wants a 6 years Excel User to analyze quite complicated data and lead the the whole team.

Just because you ( 6 years Excel Expert user) started off earning RM2000 and after 6 years you are earning RM 4000 . But the company you are about to join offers RM3500 for their fresh and the company wanna top up "20%" RM 4800 for you to lead 10 of them.

Are you kidding me?

It is so stupid to divulge your current salary.

hercules899
post Dec 16 2014, 10:15 PM

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QUOTE(abc2005 @ Dec 14 2014, 05:16 PM)
We can argue till the cows come home. But in the end, it's up the job applicants to play their cards right. The employers will always resort to low-balling candidates when the amount is revealed.

From my personal experience, I had encountered an agent for a banking MNC asking for my pay only to be told that the expected package was around 20% from my previous pay even before an interview session was arranged. How stupid is that? I did not even bother for the interview session afterwards as those figures were not up to my expectation.   

If you really have the right skills and the experience that the employers seek, the advantage is yours to take, even without revealing your pay. Also, don't resort to market rate. The so-called market rates are mere statistics compiled from those naive job seekers who have revealed their salaries only to be used by employers and HR as benchmark to low-ball other candidates like them. 

Just my 2 sen. Cheers and happy job-hunting in Year 2015. Don't forget to ask for additional 6% GST increment. tongue.gif
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VERY VERY TRUE.

hercules899
post Dec 16 2014, 10:24 PM

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QUOTE(missysleepy @ Dec 14 2014, 05:23 PM)
Is this question only happens in malaysia or asian countries?
It seems like local employers don't feel confident to get the right candidate for the job and they don't seem to trust malaysian . So whatever figures you wrote in that blank space , they still have some doubts.

This question shouldn't be even brought up unless they have a fixed pay and bravely advertised in the classified, this will save them the time to hire the right person for the right position.

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Very very very true.
hercules899
post Dec 18 2014, 11:34 PM

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QUOTE(nicole_4ever @ Dec 17 2014, 04:58 PM)
so when they ask, what r u going to do? rclxub.gif
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Stay firm with your stand and said. So far i have been sucessful once.

Somemore i got that job through recruitment agency. After an interview. The recruitment agent called and asked for my salary coz i never filled in the current salary before the interview. The agent persuaded , talked many and threathened to certain extent. I said no. The phone conversation lasted for an hour.

Next hr called. Said the same thing. I said no way i will reveal my salary. Guess what? later i got the offer. About 30% more than current. I got the salary that i requested for.
hercules899
post Dec 18 2014, 11:37 PM

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QUOTE(Starbucki @ Dec 18 2014, 11:26 PM)
They will only give you the offer letter if you have provided all necessary documentations for their record per their SOP. So do you give them the payslip, or would you tell them no (and go complain to your hiring mgr) and be prepared to walk away? It is a simple scenario which you find so difficult to answer directly.
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What an advice.
hercules899
post Dec 19 2014, 08:48 AM

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QUOTE(Belphegor @ Dec 19 2014, 08:31 AM)
Don't see the idea of why an issue can lead to an argument.

If you are comfortable with showing your payslips, go ahead and get ready to be underpaid or only slight increase.

Only people with skills and years of vast knowledge dare to not show their salary because they know their stand.

From what I know in an executive search (slight higher,  and more classier than recruitment agency), they don't ask for payslips because they know their offers are always higher than market.
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The moment a person shows his payslip. He us destined to be low balled by the employer especially the HR.

Yet many naive job interviewees are so believe in the so called
Standard SOP. So naive.

It is only a norm among HR practice to force you give your current salary. There is no black and white written company memo . Documentation or very clear cut black and white policy.


With that i challenge all HR in malaysia to post your clear black and white SOP here in lowyat. You cant?can you?

It is your company SOP not to post your company SOP?

MY FOOT
hercules899
post Dec 27 2014, 02:30 AM

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QUOTE(ayamstim @ Dec 26 2014, 03:40 PM)
A few years ago, I made the mistake of providing my payslips (without blanking out the amounts) to a prospective employer after passing all the interviews, and ended up not getting the job even though the hiring manager was keen on hiring me. The HR department's reason was that they found a better candidate who fit their budget, so I assumed my current salary then was too low since it was only one third of the new job's salary.

Perhaps they believed I wasn't good enough for the job since my salary was so low (which I blame not only the company I was working for then, but also myself). It didn't matter if I had the right knowledge, skills, and attitude. It didn't matter if I could get the job done. They saw how much I was getting paid, and apparently, that was how much I was worth.

I have since learnt from that bitter experience, and am now getting a five-figure salary based on the job I'm doing, and not how much I was paid in my previous jobs.
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Well done, we need persons like you to share your side of the story so that others could learn.
hercules899
post Dec 27 2014, 03:05 AM

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Let me share my little cents further, recently I just went to tuition center to get a job as part time tutor. After filling out the application form, I was told to leave the "expected pay" blank. I had a little informal interview with the boss after that. One week later, he told me the structure is like that:

less than 10 people, you take 100%
between 10 to 20 people, you take 80%
Above 20 people , you take 70%

Note: The percentage above is fake, not real.

He then told me that this is the standard market rate , of course I know he might be lying cos I am pretty sure those got leverage ( famous tutor) will have more percentage cut.

But how come he never ask about the current pay of mine as lets say as accountant ? how much I am earning per hour then offer 20% more ?

Lets say I am an accountant earning RM 100 / hour , then I should be offered RM120/hour to tutor? Are you kidding me?

See that. Tuition center offers according to the field market rate and the responsibility of your jobs (bigger class means bigger responsibility means high pay , as simple as that).

Yet many people would fall for the HR so called SOP to provide the payslip for the "fear of being seen difficult". so stupid.


This post has been edited by hercules899: Dec 27 2014, 03:07 AM

 

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