Original Post 153 by Engineer Lee
QUOTE(CWG @ Feb 24 2009, 10:20 AM)
All,
Below are my comments regarding the Garis Panduan posted in World of Swiftlet Farming.
1) On line 5.1 (ii) & (iii) - I am not sure whether it still applicable as item 5.0 is applied to BH already exist. Will the official going to check back the history of the shop lot and ask the owner to close down the BH if it does not meet "bangunan yang terbiar pada satu tempoh tertentu sahaja"? Btw, what is the defination of terbiar pada satu tempoh tertenty sahaja? 2 years, 3 years or longer???
I think 2 years is ok (coz after 24 months of defects and liability period). "bangunan terbiar pada satu tempoh tertentu"? Meaning that residential house can be converted to BH if let it "terbiar". Terbiar means : nobody buys? rundown no maintenance?2) On line 5.1 (iV) - Instead of specify the distance with respect to "dinding premis", can we use the distance with respect to the source of sound (Ext Tweeters)?
Q: Can u expect our enforcer climb up the BH and measure the distance between the tweeters and the neigbor's house by deploying total station (surveying equipment)?
3) On line 6.1.1 - Can we include "Kawasan perniagaan yang terbiar for X years"?
100% agreed, good idea!
5) On line 6.2.4 (ii) - Why Kawasan Pertanian Tanaman padi need to limit to 3 storey?
This may be due to softer soil profile of paddy field, most of them is peat (Correct me if I am wrong). Not good and can cause great settlement. This is why the construction/foundation cost at paddy field area is higher a bit. However, u can do up to 5 storeys provided the foundation is checked and verified by an qualified structural engineer.6) On line 7.0 - There are so many Jabatan need to go through for licience apporaval. This will take year to approve with a lot of kopi money. Can we simplify the process?
We can apply thru "one-stop" approach which is practised for the normal house renovation.
7) On line 9.0 (i) - Bird sound is a MUST especially for new BH. Ultrasonic is proven not working.
So delete this clause please and change to "penggunaan speaker dan sistem audio dibenarkan, tertakluk kepada kekuatan bunyi tidak melebihi 40dB, diukur pada jarak 6 m dari tweeter."
This post has been edited by Engineer Lee: Today, 06:31 PM
Added on February 25, 2009, 8:56 pmOriginal Post 154 by Bobby CSome comments on the Kedah Guideline
4.0.ii Aktiviti perladangan burung wallet hendaklah di luar kawasan petempatan dan perniagaan bagi mengelak daripada kacauganggu kepada penduduk
Comment:- This clause is too general and contradict the previous guidelines and Home Minister Ong KC press statement that swiftlet farming is allowed in commercial building/shoplots. Suggest change "petempatan dan perniagaan" to perumahan. In another words not allowed in residential development.
5.1 Aktiviti dan premis .. Beroperasi secara "haram"
Comment:- Suggest change the word "haram" to "tidak berlesen". Swiftlet farming is not illegal unlike "judi" or "arak". Word "haram" giving bad impression to a layman who reads it even before looking at the content.
5.1.iii Tingkat bawah bangunan tidak dibenarkan diguna untuk aktiviti ini melainkah bagi bangunan yang terbiar pada satu tempoh tertentu sahaja.
Comment:- Too general, how to verify? Suggest "bangunan yang terbiar pada satu tempoh tertentu atau diluar pusat perniagaan atau diluar kawasan bandar.
5.1.iv Jarak antara dinding premis burung wallet dengan kemudahan awam (..) terhmpir adalah tidak kurang daripada 50 meter.
Comment: Suggest Jarak antara dinding premis burung wallet dengan dinding bangunan kemudahan awam ....building wall to building wall not less than 50 meter. Not building wall to carpark or building wall to boundary fence less than 50 meter.
6.1.1 Lokasi Tapak / Zone Guna tanah yang dibenarkan
Comment: where is Zon commercial??? It is always in the guideline and Home Minister
Press statement that farming is allowed in commercial building. Kawasan perkampungan also considered residential area, this is contradictory to the guideline.
6.1.2.vi Zon perniagaan, this is contradictory.
6.1.4.i Jarak antara dinding premis ... dengan premis kediaman .... tidak kurang daripada 10 meter.
Suggest perlu mendapat surat bertulis dari pihak penternak ie need commitment from breeders that volume and hygiene shall not affect the neighbours in compliance with clause ... , failure which MBT got the right to dismantle after 3 warning letter etc.
6.1.4.ii Suggest " jarak antara dinding premis burung wallet dengan dinding bangunan kemudahan awam " tidak kurang daripada 50 meter.
7.2 Penglibatan Jabatan / Agensi Berkaitan
As commented earlier, too many dept involved. Cant they simplified to "one stop centre" and the housing ministry have been trying to cut down red tapes.
9.0.i Pengunaan speaker ddan system audio tidak dibenarkan " cuma sonar (this is nonsense from H**** and should be deleted)
Just a suggestion for further debate not arguement purposes. Just my half cents. Thks.
Added on February 25, 2009, 8:59 pmOriginal Post 156 by dunsuntutmybuntutDear Lucas 1, West Wing, ChanK, chioungguo, Ir Lee, Uncle Ben, coolandy and other esteemed forumers, hope i'm not barging in such heated arguments. I was caught offgurad when the old thread was closed... was away for a few weeks preparing my standalone BH. Supervised the jcb, built a 60X30 ft pond 800 ft away from the proposed site, took some measurements for agricultural activities, and met a few friends along the way, some with their own BH's.
It has caught my attention that some flaming occurred. Flame on all you want, as long as there are valid points & facts and for the interest of the industry. At times harsh words are needed and judgment necessary.
The issue in Kedah and Sarawak is alarming... and the news of this draft guideline... and possible directives to all PBT's... is a nightmare. I mentioned many times before the necessity of a National Level association (yes, whoever the head will be, will definately be prone to get MI or a TIA)... and its at times like this when the need becomes essential. One united voice representing most (not possible to represent all) BH owners both standalone and shoplots.
Someone mentioned about why there was a bumi association in Terengganu... again i mention that whatever it is, Malaysia has a rather biased political and racist nature (its a fact guys, no offense). Make use of this, utilize cooperating & proactive bumi BN associations for the benefit of the industry. Get their support rather than questioning why a bumi association should exist. Thats just my point of view. In other words.... manipulate whatever leverage these bumi associations have... for all of us.
I will continue my standalone unit. an 80x30x 3 story BH on agri land (3 acres). Already paid the deposit. this week construction will commence. The draft guideline is a DRAFT. Construction should be completed before any rubbish in that guideline will come to force, hopefully the pbt in the area will remain slow, inactive, dormant and stupid.
For the time being... addressing the issue in hand... don't you think a signed petition from all members of state level associations... including every BH owner in Malaysia... be a good idea? maybe during the handing of the petition at kementerian perumahan & kerajaan tempatan... we could call up the NGO's, International Conservation Bodies (WWF, Malaysian Nature Society), maybe consumer associations, maybe UNDP (since its Convention on Biological Diversity has published that PERHILITAN is developing the house nest as part of conservation efforts & income generating activity), the PRESS (both mainstream and not) and media. Just an idea. Play with issues revolving the industry to our advantage. Gather the momentum and support.
Since some legal proceedings have been filed against the pbt's in Sarawak, maybe open up a legal forum based on this. get opinions from other lawyers as well.
another issue i mentioned before is educating the officers and public. whoever has government officer friends... please enlighten them about the industry and the problems it faces. promote BN thru MOH. Promote it or even garner support from c/o's such as Brands and other commercially relevant producers of BN beverages/health food. my own experience with a gov official... to be exact a MARA official... presented my case (in hope of getting a loan) but was cut point blank that he was NOT INTERESTED. The last person who got a MARA loan for a BH mentioned that after 7 months... the officer only came once... and even that was because the MARA bigshots came to visit. In other words... most gov agencies do not have the technical expertise. maybe dialogues or forums or more two way discussions can help?these are just a noobies oponion. please pray for my BH safe completion and success, then i can be more involved and as passionate as you guys.
Added on February 25, 2009, 9:03 pmOriginal Post 157 by West Wing
QUOTE(ChanK @ Feb 24 2009, 11:02 AM)
The Selangor BN Association is issuing sticker to all members. Each member will obtained a sticker that they will stick to the front door. Details of Owner name, contact no. is included.
Owners need to apply the sticker with proven document that the farm belongs to him.
This is a good practice as many times neighbours complains but did not know who is the owner and ends up complain to govt dept and make it into a bigger issue.
*
This is a NO NO as it will surely lead to some other problems which shouldn't be mentioned here. Better stick a sticker with the Association name and telephone to contact. Just examine the following and see if it work.
What our Association has done is to have a sub committees dealing with complaints and that the public will phone this number and complaint. The Association will take appropriate action to correct any unhappiness and will phone up the complainant after correction. This way, only the Association is involved and the BH owner and the complainer need not see eye to eye unless necessary, then the Association will arrange a meeting for them to meet.
What we the BH owners are not afraid of the public's complaints but it is the devils that we are concerned and afraid of if you understand what I mean.
Give a number for each BH and The Association name the Telephone to call. That's what the Association is for...Harmony, Peace and Understanding.
We even have carry on education for our members to keep them informed and to educate them in all fields concerning this industry like how to export BN, how to process BN, how to tackle BH's problems and many others....for the benefit or the members. I believe all BODs of the Association should have this in mind on how to solve complaints , how to improve BH, how to increase Birds, how to get better deals, and many more how but the most importance of HOW is how to do PR with the public esp. neighbours.
We have approached our local authorities and inform them to forward all complaints to our Association and let the Association do their donkey's work and we will keep them inform of our work. Any letter to any member should be forwarded to us and we will deliver on their behalf. That's way, the authorities will be please as there will less work for them and they will be happy as we solve all their complaints for them and we are happy as all well and end well. I have even suggest to our local Association to do charity work and support other NGOs to give the public that Bird's Association is a Association that care about the welfare of the town we are in and we are their friends in need.
Any ideals???
Added on February 25, 2009, 9:04 pmOriginal Post 158 by dunsuntutmybuntut
i am not sure that will work. local authorities are endowed with power to enforce such bylaws or regulations... i dont think the idea of delegating or extending the enforcement would work well with them (even if it meant reducing their workload)... since as the name suggests... localauthority. come on, you know how most pbt's are and what attitudes they have when it comes to enforcement.
i do agree however with the PR aspects. maybe more can be done thru these associations.
This post has been edited by dunsuntutmybuntut: Today, 09:18 PM
Added on February 25, 2009, 9:06 pmOriginal Post 159 by ChanK
WW, actually i too afraid to paste my name n phone no., and yes, it will have other complication where you will need to face Black and White !!!...
But this issue is small issue. move on to other major issue first.
Added on February 24, 2009, 9:25 pm6.1.4.ii Suggest " jarak antara dinding premis burung wallet dengan dinding bangunan kemudahan awam " tidak kurang daripada 50 meter.
guys, we can take out the clause if it is not necessary. we don't have to follow all the clause.
what about those farms that renovated and convert to farm and after few years, the bangunan kemudahan awam is been move to the building besides this farm!!
In segamat, the most famous farm too next to govt office!!.. so is that mean that building too need to move!
what other clause should be taken away? We need to think liked all farmers condition, that is, even we don't have farm in agricultural land, we need to check if any clause is affecting them and whether it is necessary.
The only worry that a farm situated next to a public building is due to hygi. n smell. And this is been taken cares of with one clause where farmers need to clean all shits once a month.
We don't even have to monitor it as all farmers are cleaning up the shits twice a month as they are now more concern with nest quality as white nest command higher price.
BTW, now we are doing something......great job guys. thank you.
.
This post has been edited by ChanK: Today, 09:32 PM
Added on February 25, 2009, 9:12 pmOriginal Post 161 by Aerohead
Uncle Ben,
you wrote "The highly esteemed Datuk Lord Canbrook a renowned scientists who worked in Sarawak for many years and together with Dr.Lim Chan Koon co- authored Swiftlets of Borneo was the speaker on Sarawak Swiftlets organized by Sarawak Nature Society in Bintulu last year. He stress that what he call "House Swiftlets " are either a sub species or an Hybrid species that he named " Fuciphagus Domesticus " and would categories as domestic animals like chicken and pigs....."
Is he classifying the swiftlets in our BH as "House Swiftlet" ie. Aerodramus Fuchipagus Domesticus or is it Aerodramus Domesticus ? As such are these House Swiftlets a protected species like AFs?
If they are not a protected species then does the law in Sarawak prohibits the keeping of non protected species of swiftlets.
This may be worth pursuing because If the law only prohibits the keeping of protected species of swiftlets and if House Swiftlets is not a protected species then it could be a way to stop perhilitan's current actions in Sarawak.
Just some foods for thought.
Added on February 25, 2009, 9:14 pmOriginal Post 162 by dunsuntutmybuntut
about 6.1.4...
in modern countries... development is done around nature. for example in australia... the first people who survey the development site are the landscape architects & horticulturists... they will try to line out and preserve the natural landscape as much as possible... only then do the engineers, architects and stuff jump in with the design. this concept should be applied... if an operating and successful shoplot BH that has an adequate number of birds... such 'kemudahan awam' or any other development should be built away from the location in the spirit of conservation. then again, this is Malaysia, a country that rules based on an individuals whim.
i read both the Kedah and the draf GP022. roughly they still lack technical know how about the industry, besides giving lame excuses and blaming public ignorance about the nature of AF. secondly... too much authority is given. too much. 7.8 (draf gp022) clearly shows that once these bylaws are approved, they will go all out to destroy even the slightest violation of the rules. Each and every stage of the 'legalization' process of a BH unit is prone to abuse and corruption. who are we kidding? we all know pbt's not so famous dark side.
Bobby C, i agree with your view on 5.1.... how the hell can they assume it is haram in the draft stage? to me, it just shows malicious intent. branding unlicensed BH owners just like gambling dens, prostitution outlets or drug abuse related lots.
so far as i know, the issue of Sarawak is more of the owners rather than the birds. lets assume there is no difference between house (BH) and cave birds... disregard subspecies and what not. just assume all are just aerodramus fucipagus... the protected ones... dont you think it should MORE REASON FOR THE AUTHORITIES TO NOT GO AROUND DESTROYING BIRD HOUSES THAT PROVIDE GOOD SHELTER AND A HOME FOR THE BIRDS BESIDES INCREASING ITS POPULATION? sometimes i think the world is such a mess.
This post has been edited by dunsuntutmybuntut: Today, 10:18 PM
Added on February 25, 2009, 9:18 pmOriginal Post 163 by ChiongguoQUOTE(ChanK @ Feb 24 2009, 09:46 AM)
Anyone can upload it here by section for all members to study it.
Guys again don't waste your time with him.
You should actually follow your own advice but instead resorted to side-swipes and then rallying the gang to do your bidding. Since you open the door , I am merely walking through.
QUOTE
I thank all my friends who try to defend for me, it is ok. I am nobody so don't worry about me. As long as I have nests to harvest every week, i am very happy liao. Who said what i don't care as deep down i never done any harm to anyone in the swiftlet farming industry, that is more than enough to me. No problem been sabotage when you did no wrong to anyone.
Clap!clap!clap!clap .... great speech. Why do you want to make yourself out to be the victim ? You vented your spleen on others and the group applauded you. Look through all your posts where you literally drown harry with your puke and harry did nothing to respond. When I responded .... not in kind but with reason and careful consideration you felt victimised as if you had been wrongly maligned.
QUOTE
Liked D.L. said, ` We have done no harm or bad things to anyone, even we walked around a dark ally in the middle of the night, we have no fear.".
This quote is so laughable and I will just leave it as that .... a nice joke
QUOTE
So, i thank you again for all the support i got. But of course, i will expose any swiftlet predators that i came across with no remorse. And the other way round, if someone think that i am a predator to him, they can expose me too. No regret, i die as A Normal Human Being.
Spoken like a true hero that flew through the trees saving all the swiftlet in its path. The protector of 61000+ farmers who would be eternally grateful to all your sacrifices and daring do.
For a moment I thought you were a god....
QUOTE
It happened few years ago when perak farmers facing great danger of been instructed to close down all the farms in town. Then the association decides to arrange a meeting with the govt officer ( i forgot who liao, i think from MCA or gerakan). On that morning, over hundreds of farmers, including ah mah, waiting outside the street and waiting for one man to come, he is no other but Mr David Lim. Though he accompanied by the Perak BN Association President, the farmers instead of welcoming the president, they all rush to Mr David Lim and great him and thank him for taking the time to come to Perak to fight for them eventhough Mr David Lim do not own any farms in Perak. Even Ah mah's all hugs him.
In the meeting, He is the main negotiator to discuss the matter with the Govt officer questioning him what he is doing.
Any of us here been greeted by someone you have not even meet before but they treat you liked a Hero??
So, you can sabotage me but don't even f***ing dares to talk bad about D.L. !!!!!!!
Nice story.
Tell me fcukwitz where have I said bad about DL ????
Point the error of my ways oh high and mighty one who know what is good and bad, what is predatorial and what is not !!
You could push harry around when he doesn't reply but it is a lot more uncomfortable when you have to deal with the verbal diarrhoea you spewed out so often.
You are right, this should be the end of my engagement with you. Perhaps one day affinity may bring us together again.
-----
From your post I could guess that you are on the thin side. Your face is probably elongated. Your fingers are lanky. You probably have thin lips and thin eye-brow 8-))))........may even have short eye-brow.
It would be nice if you could confirm this 8-).....don't worry I am not violent and I am not trying to know what you look like. What I have done is based on ayurveda understanding of body types and behaviour.......oh I forgot....IRRELEVANT .......
Added on February 25, 2009, 9:21 pmOriginal Post 164 by ChanK
Short Short dei !!!.....
At least i still have my family members..my brothers and my mother supports and they will never disown me...else i will becomes ...
and also all the friends which i never met before or only exchange emails....guess you guys had sent some naughty emails to him..else, he will not becomes so `Siao"....see, you guys arr........
Please lah...ignored me lah....YES...ignored me...that will stop this nonsence...
hehe....Just chat with some forumers here about the latest post...haha....very funny ahh.....
This post has been edited by ChanK: Today, 10:39 PM
Added on February 25, 2009, 9:24 pmOriginal Post 165 by ChiongguoQUOTE(vegachia @ Feb 24 2009, 03:13 PM)
since i already started build BH in agriculture land then that mean i no need apply the approval from council again??????
just continue my project building????
Not true.
If the agri land is within the jurisdiction of the town council you will still need to apply for building permit. If you are building a reban-like structure, which I had personally seen one, for swiftlet then you could probably get away with it. But the new guideline that is coming out will make your effort "illegal".
In the new guideline again if your agri land is on zoned "kampung" area you need to get permission from your neighbour. It is a silly requirement. No one need their neighbour's permission to build reban ayam but apparently for swiftlet farmers you need to do so.
Should you continue with your project ? No one can answer that for you.
QUOTE
actually which land is serious for the problem kacau from council???agriculture land or town shoplot land??????
i heard from my friend,he said that agriculture land is safety if compare to town shop land,coz there have no law against the agriculture building design, is it true?
*
Not true.
Town area is more problematic as the government had decided to ban such activities in town. Agriculture land is preferred. Small industrial building is allowed.
Building on farms depend on the structure you want to build. It range from permanent, semi-permanent and temporary. If it is permanent then you need all the necessary approval.
Hope this helps.....now I feel so much better that I could contribute POSITIVELY......(not so private joke)...
Not true.
This post has been edited by Engineer Lee: Feb 25 2009, 09:27 PM 
Feb 17 2009, 08:55 AM, updated 16y ago
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I could anticipate that some of the active forumers here who also bloggers may be next victim "beware" 
, what is the time table for me to check inside the bh? I almost enter the bh every week. worry about the this...that..tweeter 
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