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 V2. Swiftlet Keeping Discussion, Home of Fuciphagus Domesticus

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aerohead
post Feb 20 2009, 01:28 PM

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QUOTE(ChanK @ Feb 18 2009, 10:26 AM)
AGREED WITH WHAT WEST WING SAID.

BUT WE MUST NOT FORGET WITH WHAT THOSE ******* HARRY HAD DONE TO US.

WE HAVE TO REMIND ALL FARMERS TO BE ON GUARD OF HIM.

HE IS SUCH A f***ING ******* !!!!...WITH NO HEART ....WITH NO SHAME...WITH NO d*** TO ADMIT HIS WRONG DOING.

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Let us take a postive and fair view on this. The outcome of Kedah meeting was very positive. Actually we may have to thanks Harry for alerting us because he announced it openly in his blog that he was invited. If not we might not have even known that such a meeting is going to take place. As a result David Lim & team sprung into action and has managed to get into the meeting & steered it in the proper direction.

We all know that Harry should have advised the meeting organiser to invite other like David Lim and/or Association reps. Now it is going to be Perak's turn, (thanks to Harry again announcing in his blog). I do hope Harry has learned his lessons, to do what is appropriate and not perceived to be a loose canon that need to be spiked.
aerohead
post Feb 21 2009, 09:54 AM

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[quote=Lucas 1,Feb 21 2009, 02:40 AM]
David Lim and his gang had been constantly discussing the issue with the Excos since they became Govt last year. The Excos already learned the knowledge and the importance of the industry from DL. Generally, the Excos showed keen support and favour to encourage and promote this industry in Kedah as the Govt is putting focus on agriculture which is more practical to directly benefit the state and the people than other ill-strickened industries at the present global economic slump. They considered it as god sent to help the people. The Excos aware and sympathised with those problems and victimization cases faced by the industry in other states under the BN and also the Sarawak crisis and themselves agreed to do up a painless State GL to set as a good model to help the industry truthfully as far as possible. DL was tasked as unofficial advisor on this matter. DL’s gang has been working and arranging everything including the meeting on 17.02.09 except that all these were under low profile with things going on smoothly and under control.
As ‘H’ suddenly appeared from nowhere ( Later found out a Pegawai was misled to invite him through other Govt official ) DL’s gang knew ‘H’ well with his hidden agenda and motive would mess up and delay the Govt’s plan, thus they invited him to join the team and even offered him post of committee to help out. DL did not reveal what actually transpired as he wanted to test the sincerity of H. But H was too arrogant and refused. He even boshes he is business partner of Dr Redzuan of Haiwan and it was arranged by him. He did not realise DL’s task and mission and he even challenged DL’s gang to see if the official would invite and listen to them. Despite this, DL and gang still kept on appealing as DL groomed and treasured him and hoped to wake him up to bring him back to the right track but failed. (You can refer to H’s blog of his own unwitting confession) H didn’t know that the gang did not need to even make presentation in the meeting as they knew earlier that the MB would make the same to support the industry.
H’s agenda is very clear. He is a very egoistic and greedy person even his own close relatives don’t trust him. He previously was a sub-con to get Govt jobs through connections of UMNO. He likes easy money to the extent of cheating. He is very smart and vocal. A first class salesman. In order to break into Chinese dominated BH industry, he disguised under the name of HARRY KOK instead of his real name ISMAIL AHMAD. Ismail and his family live in KL. Their hometown is in Sg Petani where he has his only BH. As his wife is a Chinese, he knows well of Chinese culture. Many of his clients despite after many dealings still did not realise that he is not a Chinese. He seldom admits of being a Malay esp to Chinese newbies. He only discloses as Malay when he gets Malay sucker. Chinese thought he is a BABA and thus he behaves, eats, drinks like a Chinese. He has a hidden agenda that he wants to rub shoulder with top guns in Govt Dept to get the recognition to be appointed as some form of an advisor so he can fish for personal gains. This rightfully is none of our concern just as long as he does not do it at the expense of the industry by misleading the authority to put us into deeper trouble. There is nothing wrong for Malay or any race to come in this trade and even become a real expert. They are good, bad and ugly in all races. In fact, we do have many Malay brother owners who are very close with us. We used to have Teh Tarik in Nasi Kandar till 4 am on weekends talking of birdy story. Some are real good and knowledgeable consultants. They build for Chinese owners as well. One very fine example is Haji Aziz Rezab of GEM. He is very sincere and mixes well with Chinese owners and old timers. He makes very outstanding committee and rendered invaluable service. To our group, he is very responsible and committed so far. He himself has got no less than 10 BHs either owned solely or shared. Many are in towns.
All the old Chinese and Malay friends of Ismail Ahmad in Kedah who know him for decades are compelled to expose his wrong doing this way. But what choice do we have? He refused to U-turn. Could we just sit tight and let him to jeopardise and destroyed this industry in which all our hard earned life savings and lifelines are placed and depended on solely?
My friend, you know what Ismail answered when the PBT officials requested him to pass the message to the appropriate associations to send representatives to liaise with the Dept? He advised the officials that all the committee are useless and not interested and also that it is better not to have them inside the meetings for fear that they would turn the whole meeting upside down. He alone can handle as he is a well known consultant. (Read up his own confession in his blog below)
So, aerohead, you still think that we should thank Ismail Ahmad@Harry Kok and take chance that we may face the same crisis which our Sarawakian brothers are facing right now? You want that?
We notice that many innocent newbies who search through Google for info on swiftlet fall victims to him. We suggest and appeal that those who have blog or website on swiftlet to copy these posts exposing his crime onto theirs or link it to this forum so to save some newbies from being preyed by this No 1 PUBLIC ENEMY of the industry. If everyone of us start spreading the news of Harry Kok to all our BH owner friends now, we believe in one year he will disappear.


Lucas

many thanks to you, uncle Ben and the rest of you guys out there for enlightening us with all these background information. These are very useful information for all swiftlet farmers newbies or not.

I am sure we are all very attached to our birdhouse. The time we spend dreaming about it, planing & building it, the many hours spent alone counting birds and sweating like mad climbing ladders, experimenting & trying to figure out what works or what does not. Some have achieve their dream, many have not. The BH is a part of us or we have become a part of the BH. Whether there is only 1 bird or 10000 birds staying we do not wish to see our BH destroyed. The message from this hairy episode should by now be clear to everyone - Don't Anyone Dare To Destroy Our Hardwork.

This post has been edited by aerohead: Feb 21 2009, 04:20 PM
aerohead
post Mar 21 2009, 12:08 PM

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QUOTE(kuching_farmer @ Mar 20 2009, 08:20 PM)
only private message are serve [ :w ] not so good to show other owner property on public !!!
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This is good practice and common courtesy.

I wouldn't want anyone to display pictures of my properties to the public without my consent and speculating/describing about what is going on there. Not sure if it is against any law .... like invasion of privacy. Our privacy should be respected and not to be exploited by anyone for any purposes.

aerohead
post Mar 22 2009, 11:39 PM

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QUOTE(benchai @ Mar 21 2009, 10:31 PM)
Its most unethical to publish people’s properties and productions plus identikit photo without their consent. Its like pointing these people to the IRA also will put these people at risk to extortion or even target of kidnapping. This irresponsible and thoughtless act may put these people’s life in danger. If any untoward incident should happen to them I am sure Hungry will be very happy and proud of himself. I hope he have a conscience and sleep well at night.  cool2.gif

With no successful BH to talk about and taking money from unsuspecting newbie is not enough. The supposed shared BH with pamalo King and developer cause Mr. A to out front 50k and still waiting for Hungry to come out with his 25K. Charged 500 to bring newbie to see his design. Mr. A gets nothing and telephone calls are unanswered. Sorry for you Mr. A . For me I will just change the lock and keep the BH for myself.
[/SPOILER]
I think aerohead means “COMMOM DECENCY” as common courtesy is too kind. vmad.gif
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Thanks, Ben. Agree that "common decency" is a more fitting word in this case.

aerohead
post Mar 24 2009, 06:27 PM

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QUOTE(West Wing @ Mar 24 2009, 12:39 PM)
Alhamduellah, till now, we are all well as Malaysia is full of natural resources
but all these years they have been spoon fed and one day will come and not so far away, when all natural resources gone and the coffer empty, the time will come when they have to find food and fend for themselves and that's the time, doom days will begin.

They have no experiences and knowhow as so far when they fall down, the father (Gov) lift them up and fall again and lift again and again and again.
So, one day when your sons wake up cos it won't happen in your time I hope, they will be told  that we are to be blamed for all evils and all unfortunate and misfortune that behold on them. In their eyes, we are always the reasons for their failure and not the ones that spoon feed them so that they do not know how to fish but eat only. The Gov know well that by spoon feeding them, they will always at their mercy cos they do not know how to find food themselves.  That's clever politic, my friend and as long as we have wealth to spoon feed and all good will come to an end, and so I beg them to allow BHs to flourish as this may be their only venue to get the wealth when oil and gas gone and so for us to save our investments and that of  future generation.

Once, I lost a buz after many years of cooperation with a company and the purchasing head told me that my services are the best but then directive is to give the orders to orang kita....bukan kita semua sama orang kita , bangsa Malaysia. From that day onward, I know that I am just came to realise that I am just an adopted son, anak angkat bukan pendatang.

My advice to the Gov. now is that no matter how late or too long these methods must stop so that we all as Malaysian can stand up to fight, hand in hand irrespective of color, creek or religion armed with confidence and "Boleh" with own abilities and not fall back to demand your rights, your shares and your everything as if the rest are thieves or robbers that steal from you. Where can we all join forces and beat the world. Let start with the BHs and all will gain  when the day comes, Malaysian can  stand tall  and sing " We are the champion of the World" to the world .......... the world biggest producer of BirdNest.  Ishaallah.

I humbly apologies for any mistakes or abuses if any.
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Unfortunately those spoon fed Little Napoleons thinks that their daddy will always give them allowance every month. They don't give two hoots or maybe even have no idea about wealth creation and their daddy would like them to think that the money for the allowance is from him (and not from people like us who are wealth creators). Also tell them that it is their birthright so "don't worry be happy... remember to vote for me", that has been the tagline for the past 50+ years.

So what if they destroy your BH. They still get their allowance and perhaps even extra pocket money from eco parkers. Eventhough it may not be successful and swiftlet industry badly damaged. Who cares ..... all units sold because buyers told and believe that there would be a lot of evicted townhouse birds looking for a place to stay.

These spoonfed babies need a real father who is caring and daring enough to throw them into the deep end of the pool where they can quickly learn to swim on their own. In a way we should be glad that we have always been thrown into the deep end of the pool. That way we learn hard and fast.

Natural resources are useless if there is no wealth creation. Africa has plenty of resources, they would have not been so much despair if they have focussed in creating wealth there instead of warlords.

Likewise swiftlets is a great natural resource here and it would be useless if we do not create wealth out of it. All sustainable means should be applied to harness this wonderful resource whether they are townhouse BH, eco parks, processing centres, consultancies etc... Unfortunately even though this is one of the very rare, self initiated, industry, this goverment continually place obstacles in its path and is not encouraging its development. Either they are dumb or wasting too much time politicing or just not interested in the rakyat's welfare.

Don't give up hope yet guys. I will have my small say in the next election for all of us.
aerohead
post Mar 31 2009, 10:26 PM

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QUOTE(Bobby C @ Mar 25 2009, 09:23 AM)
Heard quite a few Malaysians gave up their citizenship recently, quite a number across the causeway, from close ones to friends and relatives. Few docs friends pack their bags to find a greener pasture last yr.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
We should not give up hope so easily but keep on to make this a better place for everyone. Just a few days ago, in the news.... A blue eyed German woman 1st generation immigrant in Indonesia has the guts and commitment to want to make Indonesia a better place for Indonesians. Unfortunately the first thing the locals asked her was "are you going to give us money??" That made her more determined to change such mentality.

I am sure there are quite a few of us here who are contributing in their own ways to make this a better place. There are still a few good people around and we must support them fully. Loud mouthed, self-serving politicians & officials, with shallow mentality must be not be voted in. They should be despised and their ill-gotten gains in whatever form must be frowned upon.

We have seen that good sense had prevailed in some of the meetings with the local authorities lately. I believe that more often than not, some of these officials are misled or corrupted by some in the swiftlet industry to gain an advantage. So it is important that the authorities be given correct and useful information.

At the end of the day, swiftlet associations has an important role to play. They should be the point of liaison with the respective authorities in development of guidelines, initial point for handling complaints from public and ensuring compliances from members to guidelines. It is not fair for swiftlet associations to play dumb and leave survival issues for concerned individuals to handle. No doubt the couple of individuals has done us good by taking the trouble to provide the authorities with useful information and concerns. We should start to get the associations to realise that they are not there just to organise profit making dinners and seminars.

This post has been edited by aerohead: Apr 1 2009, 01:59 PM
aerohead
post Apr 1 2009, 02:30 PM

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QUOTE(benchai @ Mar 31 2009, 11:34 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
Ben,

is the special sound system the super secret ultrasonik system developed by the russians during the last cold war ? I heard that it is indeed a very powerful mind altering device. Those poor birds wouldn't have stood a chance at all. Hope there were no collateral damages among the natives.


Added on April 1, 2009, 2:30 pm[quote=benchai,Mar 31 2009, 11:34 PM]
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
aerohead
post Apr 14 2009, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(ChanK @ Apr 5 2009, 09:45 AM)
NO NO....dont be ashamed to think liked that.

We are doing business here, when the competition is tense, most businessman will try to kill off their competitors. Nothing ashamed on that!!!..

All standalone farmers who are suffering now do think liked that, 100%, to wait for town farms to shut down and grab all the birds for free. (except those who own standalone n shoplot). These small groups of farmers are building their standalone farms but they rely on their shop farms to survived. and they all knows that standalone farms result are much slower than shop farms.

Most of the eco park are also build near to town....how long to wait before it is next to a new township??...u know i know.

Most of the standalone farms too build near to town....how long to wait before the next lot is a new township??...u know i know....

it is not long....not long enough for you to reap the actual profit....

some of us may be bless that at least if anything happen, we might be able to recover our losses...but how many actually can do that....how many percent??

and how many abandoned shops will again been abandoned??

and how many shops in town that will be abandoned??

i will not waste my time talk koks here....harvest kow kow is utmost important for my family. nothing else.

but when the war come, i will fight kow kow too....
Good bye.
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Greed and short sightedness have been the hallmark of most of our businessmen and politicians. Can't blame some for being short-sighted as this is usually as a result of the insecurity and uncertainties created by the authorities.

Anyone with this idea of making townhouse birds homeless, and thinking that these desperate birds will be forced to stay at their eco parks/ standalone farms. should think again. A quick calculation would reveal the folly of closing down town BH. Majority of successful BH are town BH which produces 3 seasons of new birds each year. These are young birds that will be looking for a place to stay, some will choose eco parks. A successful town BH with 4000 birds can produce about 12,000 new birds each year. ie. assuming 2 eggs per season per pair. If they close down just this one BH there is 12,000 birds less per year looking for a place to stay. So in their desperate move to try to get their dirty hands on the 4000 old birds, they lose 12,000 potential tenants per year from the closure of just one town BH, not to mention the multiplying effect of these 12000 new birds in the subsequent years. All BH owners should see their BH as a factory churning out new birds into the system.



aerohead
post Jun 20 2009, 11:43 AM

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QUOTE(benchai @ Jun 19 2009, 02:17 PM)
I think the problem of those bloggers is they only show their successful record but never mention about their failed story...or they never failed??? is it possible???? 

Correct correct correct......
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hi guys

it is good to share our experiences out here. Bloggers would of course would not publish the negative remarks from readers/customers so we have to take the hyped up stories with a handful of salt.

I bought LP after reading about its miraculous effect in James blog. I applied it to my BH which has a number of birds already staying. It was a real dud. I didn't see any positive effect at all. Maybe some birds even left but I can see from my cctv that they don't really like it. On top of that I contacted James about the result but was told that the problem is with my BH rclxms.gif . I can't really be bothered with this kind of mercenarious behaviour.

Like everyone else I still keep a lookout on what & how I can make the bird stay. It is quite an interesting challenge trying to find the silver bullet and I don't think there are any silver bullets for sale around town. good luck everyone.
aerohead
post Sep 30 2009, 08:52 PM

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QUOTE(CWG @ Sep 30 2009, 02:17 PM)
Quite disappointed after reading a blog about how to increase the number of baby birds during 2nd phase. sad.gif

The idea is really crazy and not ethic. Add 3 eggs in a nest? Did he ever think that can birds feed 3 baby birds at the same times? Or is the nest big enough for 3 birds? Most of the birds will eventually get kill either by starving to dead or accidentally fall down. Even they can survive, I think due to not enough food, their size and health also not as good as normal growing birds. Can they survive in wild environment?  shakehead.gif

How about the idea to choose only female egg only? What about the male egg? throw or sell away? Again you are teaching how to kill young birds.

Btw I thought the swiftlet once choose its partner, they will forever together until either one of them die before they look for new one?

I hope those who practice the method of increasing young birds can sleep well at night....  doh.gif

Another crazy idea after "shift birds" episode.  rclxub.gif
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As they say, Ideas are a dime a dozen.

A lot of ppl don't understand why swiftlet lay at most 2 eggs. This is a survival strategy developed by the swiftlets species over million years of evolution like any other surviving living things on earth. Disrupting this strategy means disturbing their plans for propagating the species. The swiftlets know their odds against nature therefore they know that their best bet is at most 2 eggs. Those swiftlets that lay more than 2 eggs did not manage to pass on their genes. Removing the male eggs and putting 3 female eggs is a recipe for disaster.

Is there a guarantee that each female swiftlet will bring back a male.? Whoever who wants to try 3 eggs producing female swiftlets better be sure that it is the female swiftlet that attracts the male swiftlet else he would be producing lots of female birds that will fly to stay with the male birds in other people's bh. Not to mention the additional strain put on the parent swiftlets.

Maybe the additional strains on the parents is a good way to produce blood nests. brows.gif

The forces of nature is immense. GOD created Nature. Be very very careful when you try to manipulate them.

aerohead
post Oct 3 2009, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(dunsuntutmybuntut @ Oct 2 2009, 10:12 AM)
no prob, but better get a second third maybe fourth opinion.

todays paper... still more mention about the MPSp's intention of moving swiftlet farmers out of the 40km radius guideline by PERHILITAN;

http://thestar.com.my/metro/story.asp?file...391&sec=central
Some things i do want to know;

1. Is there any cases of swiftlets caught in the turbines/propellers/whatever that propels the plane?
2. Is it common for aircrafts in Malaysia to fly at speeds faster than the speed of sound... swiftlets have extraordinary hearing... and should be able to detect incoming objects from far away, what more if the objects a bloody noisy plane.... and of course get out of the way.
3. WTF does Perhilitan know about airline regulations? Heck... WTF does Perhilitan know about swiftlets??????????
4. I'm wondering what guideline that Azizan Sidin is talking about.
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wonder if these ppl are aware of tests being done on jet engines where they shoot flocks of whole chicken, ducks etc with feathers, guts & all, weighing as much as 8 lbs and birds after birds just got minced out the other end of the jet egine without any problem to the engines. so you are unlikely to find swiflets in the propellers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xlObdXF8VE...rom=PL&index=10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2OS2pwrZTI...rom=PL&index=21

moreover swiftlets don't fly in hugh swarms high up in the sky, only flocks at rooftop level when they are flying back to roost. if the plane is flying at roof top level then MPSP should move the residents out as it would not be suitable for human dwelling.

maybe many planes here don't have the proper certifications so will crash even when a little swiftlet gets into the engine. so the authorities feel that they have to remove any swiftlets within 40km of airports.

i think they should also remove any pigeons, mantins, crow, swallows, merbok, sparrows, mosquitoes and flies within 40km radius of all airports.

This post has been edited by aerohead: Oct 3 2009, 11:42 AM

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