Edit :Matters and questions pertaining to Used Oil Analyses (UOA's) and vehicle Wheel Alignment are also welcome in this thread though I'm not a 'practitioner' per se , other than matters related to used engine oil changes and Blotter Spot Tests here .
..............................................................................................

What do you think ?


https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/c...0-miles.264501/


A1.1) Round 1: Total Quartz 7000 Energy 10W40 SL/A3B4 in 2005 Avanza 1.3L K3-VE
A1.2) Blotters for :12,238 km ; 13,000 km ;13,673 km ; 14,218 km and 16,593 km
Note:Finally oil change at 16,631 km (10,334 miles) in early May 2017 after 9 months in use.
Fuel in use:
Mostly use : (Brand/RON#) BHP RON 95 ;
Mixed with : (Brand/RON#) None

A2.1) Round 2: Total Quartz 7000 Energy semi synthetic 10W40 SL/A3B4 in 2005 Toyota Avanza 1.3L K3-VE
A2.2) Blotters for : 5,087 km; 8,665 km ; 10,616 km ; 13,478 km and 15,000 km
Note:On 31 Jan 2018,after 9 months in use,this oil is replaced by fullsyn Shell Helix Ultra 5W40 MB 229.5

A3.1) Round 3: Shell Helix Ultra Full Synthetic 5W40 A3B4,MB 229.5,LL01,VW 50200 50500 in 2005 Toyota Avanza 1.3L K3-VE
A3.2) Blotters for :5575 km;10099 km;14100 km ;17138 km

A4.1) Round 4: Mobil 1 New Life 0W40 (Tesco) MB 229.5,LL01,VW 50200 50500 in 2007 Toyota Avanza 1.3L K3VE
A4.2) Blotters for :9642 km;13021 km;14306 km -engine parts replacement ; ODO 294k km ;

A5.1) Round 5: Mobil 1 New Life 0W40 (Tesco) MB 229.5,LL01,VW 50200 50500 SN in 2007 Toyota Avanza 1.3L K3VE :-
A5.2) Blotters for :12,367 km ;15,795 km ;17,335 km ;18,031 km ; 19,160 km ;20,183 km ODO 314k km ;

A6.1) Round 6: Mobil 1 New Life 0W40 (Tesco) MB 229.5,LL01,VW 50200 50500 SN in 2007 Toyota Avanza 1.3L K3VE :-
A6.2) Blotters for : 8,784 km; 11,080 km;15,229 km ODO 329k kms;

E1 )Total Quartz 7000 Energy 10W40 semisyn SL A3B4 in 2007 Avanza 1.3L K3VE MPI :-
a) 16,593 km ODO 247k km ;
b) 15,000 km ODO 262k km .

Aisin
5W30
a )Aisin FS 5W30 (non-PAO)
1 )7401 km;11400 km;13536 km; 14990 km in 2002 Hyundai Elantra 1.8L G4GB @alphaz;

2 )8100 km ODO 144,000 km in 2011 Honda City @ cempedaklife;



b )Aisin evoTECH FS PAO+Ester 5W30 Mid-SaPS* PDS
1 )1,800 km ODO 137K km, in 2014(?) Proton CamPro CFE turbo @Andy0625 ;
2 )2,243 km, 7,456 km ODO 145K km, in 2009 Honda City GM2 @La2yboy/90Boyz ;

5W40
a )Aisin FS PAO+Ester 5w-40 SN Mid-SaPS* PDS
1 )12000 km in Elantra 2.0 NA (G4GC),ODO 194k km @speedy3210;
2 )12000 km in 2008 Toyota Vios NCP93 ODO 241k kms @shimiky;


Amsoil
5W30
a )Amsoil Signature Series ASL 5W30 SN D1G2 A5B5 Ford M2C-946-A
1 )2907 km ; 6912 km ;10,006 km ODO 132K km in 2009 Honda City GM2 @90Boyz;


Bardahl
5W40
a )Bardahl MXP 5W-40 FS
1 )4322 km, ODO 173k;6829 km, ODO 180k in Nissan Livina 1.6 NA @ putra23

Castrol
5W30
a )Castrol Magnatec Stop-Start fullsyn 5W30 of SN A3B4 PDS

10W40
a )Castrol Magnatec 10W40 SN
1 )1537 km, ODO 234k km in 1999 Proton Wira 1.3 Fuel Injection @BravoZeroTwo

20W50
a )Castrol GTX 20W50 SL
1 )5200 km,6000 km ODO 54.5k km in 2016 Toyota Estima 2.4L 2AZFE engine @tchinhe;


Honda
0W20
a )Honda Genuine Engine Oil HGEO Fully Synthetic 0W20 SN
1 )10200 km in 2014 Honda City GM6 Non-hybrid @boxer07;

0W30
a )HGEO Fully Synthetic 0W30 SN
1 ) 3000 km;4000 km ODO 101,000 km in 2011 Honda City @ cempedaklife;
2 ) 3750 km ODO 107750 km -------------------ditto--
3 ) 7110 km ,Before seafoam 7989 km and After seafoam 8109 km ODO 121,358 km --ditto--
4 ) 3222 km; 4622 km in 2010 Honda City L15A7,ODO 103k km @ Thrust;

5W30
a )Honda HGEO Semi Synthetic 5W30 SN:
1 )6797 km 4.5 years oil life in 2003 Honda City iDSI ,ODO 57,506 km @ Trony;
2 )2330 km in 2009 Honda City GM2 , ODO 136k km @ 90Boyz ;

b )Honda HGEO Semi Synthetic 5W30 SP -silver:
1 )7780 km in 2009 Honda City GM2, ODO 163k km @90Boyz;

Kaito
5W30
a )Fully synthetic 5W30
1 )1172 km in 2006 Myvi Auto MPI NA, ODO 199k km @abubin;


Kixx
0W30
a )Kixx PAO 1 0W30 (100% Synthetic) SN CF , MSDS ;

Liqui Moly
5W30
a )Liqui Moly fully synthetic 5W30 Special Tec AA
1 )11000+ km in Honda K20A @unitron;
2 )3,000 km Odo 130k km in 2011 Honda City @ cempedaklife ;

5W40
a )Liqui Moly Top Tec 4100 5W40 C3 SN MB229.31 VW 50500 50501 Porsche A40
1 )10,000 km in 20xx Toyota Avensis (Russian) 2.2L Diesel Common Rail D-4D engine @Russian;

Mannol
10W40
a )Mannol Diesel Extra 10W40 CH-4/SL semi synthetic
1 )8325 km,9771 km,11000 km ODO 308k, in Nissan AD Resort 1.6L GA16 carburettor @chemistry;


Mizu
5W30
a )Mizu Fully Synthetic 5W30 SN PDS
1 )2582 km ODO 196k kms, in Myvi 1.3L @abubin;

Mobil
5W30
a )Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 SN C3 MB229.52 VW50400 50700 PDS
1 )7000 km in TGDI engine @ therain01 ;
2 )3200 km; 7,800 km ; ODO 86K km, in 2014 Honda CRV 2.4L engine MPI @ dopamine ;

b )Mobil 1 EP 5W30 SN+ GF5 GM D1G2 A5B5 Ford M2C946A SA=0.8%; PAO=20-30%; PDS;
1 )7000+ km ODO 98k+ km in Mazda3 2.0L SkyActiv DI @ incredibless

0W40
a )Mobil 1 New Life 0W40 SN A3B4;VW50200 50500;Porsche A40
1 )3000 km in TGDI engine @ therain01
2 )9642 km;13021 km;14306 km ODO 294k km in 2007 Avanza 1.3 MPI @zeng
3 )12,367 km ;15,795 km ;17,335 km ;18,031 km ;19,160 km ;20,183 km ; ODO 314K km in 2007 Avanza 1.3L MPI @zeng;
4 )8,784 km; 11,080 km;15,229 km;17,080 km ODO 331k kms in 2007 Avanza 1.3L K3VE MPI @zeng;

10W40
a )Mobil Super 2000 X2 10W40 semi-synthetic SN A3B3;MB 229.1
1 )4000 km ODO 84k km in 20xx CamPro VVT MPI @ OvenBaked

15W40
a )HDEO Mobil Delvac mineral MX 15W40 (CJ4)
1 )740 km,20 hours of track time in KTM RC390 Motorcycle @e-lite;

Nissan
10W40
a )Nissan Total Quartz Energy 7000 10W40 SL A3B4 semi-synthetic
1 )2200 km ;ODO km in 1987 Volvo B230E SOHC 2316 cc MPI, Automatic Trans @Benck ;

Pennzoil
5W40
a )Pennzoil Platinum Velocity 5W40 100%-synthetics
1 )9000 km;9900 km;17000 km;22000 km ODO 91k kms in 2014 Myvi 1.3L Auto K3VE EFI @Senscents;

Perodua
0W20
a )Perodua FS 0W20
a )6161 km ,ODO 43K km in 2018 Myvi D20N 1.5L 2NR-VE engine @Blank19

5W30
a )Perodua SS 5W30 SM gold bottle
1 )5000 km, ;7000 km;8000 km,ODO 133k in Kenari 1.0L @ahsam1212;

PetroCanada
0W30
a )HDEO Petro Canada Duron XL 0w30 (API CH4/SJ) synthetic blend
1 )10912 km;12707 km ODO 283k, in Nissan AD Resort 1.6L GA16 carburettor @chemistry;


15W40
a )HDEO Petro-Canada Duron semi synthetic SHP 15w40 (CK4,E9,ECF-3)
1 )11145 km ODO 295k ;12558 km ODO 297k, in Nissan AD Resort 1.6L GA16 carburettor @chemistry;


Petronas
5W30
a )Petronas Syntium 3000 FR 5W30 SN A5B5 Ford WSS-M2C-913D
1 )11680 km ODO 95680 km, in 2014 Kia Rio UB 1.4L Gamma MPI G4FA @90Boyz ;
2 )2388 km ODO 94K km, in 2007 Suzuki Swift 1.5L MPI @ dopamine ;
3 )5,218 km ODO 130K km, in 2014(?) Proton CamPro CFE turbo @Andy0625 ;

b )Petronas Syntium 3000 5W30 SN+ GF5 Dexos 1 Gen 2 Mid-SaPS* (Malaysia version) PDS
1 )6000 km ODO in MB GLC250 @jamespaul;
2 )2000 km ODO 245K km in 200x Perodua Viva 660 cc @ PointOfSale ;
3 )500 km ODO 144K km in 2005 Myvi 1.3L K3VE @ PointOfSale ;
4 )6,500 km ODO 123k km in Mazda3 2.0L SkyActiv @ incredibless ;
5 )2,000 km ODO 303k km in Honda City Idsl @ jin manusia ;
6 )3,000 km, 6000 km ODO 136k km in 2015 Proton Campro IAFM @clockpulses ;

c )Petronas Syntium 800 5W30 SN GF5 PDS

10W30
a )Petronas Syntium 800 10W30 SL GF3 A3 PDS

10W40
a )Petronas Syntium 800 SS 10W40 SN A3B3 MB 229.1 PDS
1 )4181 km ODO 189k km , in Toyota Vios NCP 42, Engine: 1NZ-FE @XinG;
2 )1000 km ODO 67k km , in Campro VVT engine MPI @OvenBaked ;


15W40
a )Petronas Urania 3000 LS 15W40 Mineral HDEO CJ4 E9 Mid-SaPS* PDS
1 )5000 km ODO 60k km, in 2016/7 Proton Persona/Saga 1.3/1.6 CamPro VVT @OvenBaked ;


Schnell
5W40
a )Schnell Ultimate II Fully Synthetic 5W40 SM MB229.3 (German)
1 )7000 km ODO 140k kms in 2004 Toyota Vios Gen1 @mushigen;


Shell
0W30
a )Shell Helix Ultra ECT C2/C3 0W30 SN C3 MB229.52 VW504 PDS
1 )10500 km;12000 km in Mazda6 2.2L Diesel twin-turbo @rcracer;

b )Shell Helix Protect 0W30 API SN+ ACEA A3/B4
1 )4810 km; 10,081 km ODO 35,877 km, in 2019 Hilux Revo 2.4G 2GD-FTV Auto @Gin87;
2 )9,596 km 31 months old ODO 85,111 km in 2014 Myvi Lagi Best 1.5L 3SZ-VE @Gin87;

5W30
a )Formula Shell 5W30 SN GF5 PDS1;PDS2
1 )8500 km ODO 323k in 1997 Wira 1.5 auto 4G15 carburrettor @Senscents;
2 )9200 km ODO 70k, in Mazda3 @wkc5657;

b )Shell Helix Ultra Fully Synthetic 5W30 A3B4 (Made in Hong Kong)
1 )10060 km; 14160 km ;15999 km in 2002 Hyundai Elantra 1.8L G4GB @alphaz

c1)Shell Helix HX8 Fully Synthetic 5W30 SN PDS OEM MB 229.5 (between Jan 2020 and Aug 2021)
1 )100 km (est),after changing out seafoam, ODO 121k km in 2011 Honda City @ cempedaklife;

c2)Shell Helix HX8 X Fully Synthetic 5W30 SN acquires OEM MB 229.5 approval (between Jan 2020 and Aug 2021)**
1 )1069 km,3155 km,6279 km,8168 km,10094 km, 11933 km ODO 121k, in 2009 Honda City Gm2 @90Boyz;
2 )5873 km; ODO 153k kms in 2009 Honda City Gm2 MPI @90Boyz;

d )Shell Helix HX7 semi synthetic 5W30 SN A3B4
1 )7400 km ODO 60890 km , in Mazda3 @wkc5657

5W40
a )Shell Helix Ultra 5W40 SN MB 229.5 A3B4 PDS
1 )1020 km ;10,814 km ,ODO 170K km in 2008 Toyota Vios 2nd gen Dugong @ tanalvis ;
2 )5575 km;10099 km;14100 km ;17138 km ODO 280k km in 2007 Avanza 1.3L K3-VE MPI @zeng ;
3 )10,300 km ,ODO 170k km in Proton Inspira 2.0L @ahsam1212 ;
4 )12602 km, ODO 283k km in Hyundai Elantra 2.0L NA (G4GC) @speedy3210;
5 )14184 km, ODO 380740 km in 2007 Avanza 1.3L K3-VE MPI @zeng;

b )Shell Helix HX8 Synthetic 5W40 SN A3B4 MBB229.3 PDS
1 )

10W40
a )Formula Shell 10W40 mineral SN PDS
1 )5466 km ODO 395k km, in 1999 Wira 1.6 MPI @speedy3210;

20W50
a )Shell Helix HX3 20W50 SL
1 )400 km in 1994 Mercedes Benz S600 6.0L V12 M120 SFI sequential fuel injection @90Boyz;

Tech Plus (Aeon Big)
5W40
a )Tech Plus Full Synthetics 5W40 SN
1 )5200 km in 2007 Myvi 1.3L K3VE @zeng;


Total
10W40
a )Total Quartz Energy 7000 10W40 SN A3B4
1 )2600 km ;ODO km in 2000 Honda Accord S86 F23A (2254 cc) SOHC VTEC @Benck ;
2 )7500 km; 9500 km without ACEA A3B4(?), ODO 180k kms in 201x Proton Inspira @ahsam1212 ;

Toyo
10W40
a )Toyo Semi Synthetic 10W40
1 )2000 km ODO 155K km in 201x Proton Satria Neo @ SKY233 ;

Toyota
0W20
a )Toyota Fully Synthetic 0W20 SN GF5
1 )3262 km ODO 180k km in Gen 3 (2010-2015) Toyota Prius Hybrid 1.8L @abubin;


Zic
5W30
a )X7 full synthetic 5W30 SN GF5
1 )4500 km ODO 84k km , in 2009 Nissan Latio C11 1.6L @yuareblessed ;

* denotes Mid-SaPS oils.

.................................................................................................................................................
FAQ engine oils
1 )Severe Usage Service, definition by Proton Campro;

..................................................................................................................................................
ATF Blotters
Penrite ATF FS Multi Vehicle PDS
a )21087 km ODO 146k kms in 2009 Honda City TM0 AT 5speed Auto transmissions;


Toyota Type IV
a )32138 km;18,896 km (with ATF oil treatment) ODO 325k kms; in 2007 Toyota Avanza 1.3 automatic transmission;

....................................................................................................................................................
API Sx Specification launching chronology
from pre-1930 (API SA) till todate (API SP).

....................................................................................................................................................
Product Technical Data Sheets PDS/TDS :
Castrol
1) Magnatec Stop-Start fullsyn 5W30 SN A3B4 ;

Mobil
1) Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 SN MB229.52 VW504 507 ;
2) Mobil 1 EP 5W30 SN Plus D1G2 A5B5 ;


Petronas
1) Syntium 800 10W30 SL GF3 A3 ;
2) Syntium 800 5W30 SN GF5 ;
3) Syntium 800 10W40 SN A3B3 ;
4) Urania 3000 LS 15W40 CJ4 E9 ;
5) Syntium 3000 5W30 SN Plus GF5 D1G2 ;
6) Syntium 3000 SE 5W30 SN GF5 ;
7) Syntium 3000 FR 5W30 SN Ford WSS-M2C-913-D A5B5 ;

Shell
1) Formula Shell FS Conventional 5W30 SN GF5 ;
2) Formula Shell Conventional 10W40 SN ;
3) Helix HX8 5W30 SN MB229.3 ;

.................................................................................................................................................
VOA:
VOA Amsoil SS 5W30 ASL GM D1G2 Ford M2C946-A A5B5 Full Synthetic
VOA Liqui Moly Ceratec (Oil Treatment)
VOA Shell Helix HX8 5W30 SN MB229.3 Full Synthetic
VOA Shell Helix HX7 5W30 SN MB229.3 Semi Synthetic
VOA Shell Formula 5W30-1;-2
VOA Shell Helix Ultra 5W40 (Russia) Full Synthetic

................................................................................................................................................
UOA:
UOA Chevron Delo Sports Synthetic Blend 10W30 CI4 10,000 km in 201x(?) Ford Ranger 2.2D (Credit to @e-lite);
UOA Idemitsu Zepro Adv Moly 0W20 SN 5136 km in 2011 Toyota Prius Hybrid 2ZR-FXE 1.8L Odo 304k kms;
UOA Mobil 1 EP 5W30 11,400 km in 2006 Mazdaspeed3 MZR 2.3L DISI Turbo L3-VDT ;
UOA Toyota Genuine Motor Oil 0W20 5000 miles in 2015 Toyota Lexus LX570 ;

...................................................................................................................................................
Z) Further readings:

Blotter Spot Test Helps Improve Engine Reliability
Sample Preparation and Test Procedure: A Quick Guide
New Method for Evaluating Lubricant Dispersancy
Blotter Spot Testing for Metallic and Other Solid Particles
How to Spot Check Your Car's Oil
Chromatogram Patterns
Motor Oil Analysis Testing On The Cheap
ASTM D7899
Condition-based Lubricating Oil Change
Simple Oil Blotter Test
Blotter Spot Testing for Metallic and Other Solid Particles , Fitch, Jan-Feb 2019 Machinery Lubrication
Get Ready For More Soot In Engine Oil / (Link)


Checking engine oil using the Oil Stain method Russia
Oil - when to change oil? Part 1 Russia
Oil - when to change the oil. Part II. Stains Russia
When to change the oil. Part III. Russia

Engine Oil Coefficient of Friction increases as Molybdenum additive in ppm decreases
Replace cooler and crank oil seals, mountings and ori O2 sensor (2005 Avanza 1.3L) in Sept 2019


One Drop Instant Lubricant Test
On Site Oil & Fluid Analysis

This post has been edited by zeng: Jul 31 2024, 10:29 PM

Lol 2 camps, BITOG no less

Looks good but how about the engine?

Why not? My engine is currently at 26000 km without oil change. Next oil change is in 3000 km.

The intervals in Malaysia are a bit excessive. Then again, better safe than sorry I guess? Maybe I should check my oil before I send the car for service... see how it looks like.

Well the engine is normal ok typically Japanese ..... am very happy with it.
No leaks. No smokes.



Huuh....... intending OCI at 29000 km ??
Yeah, better safe than sorry if in doubt. ....... one really has got to know with confidence what's going on to 'breach' kopitiam talk or pays a price.
Anyway regular oil monitoring helps, more so with Blotter Spot Tests.

if driving not aggresive. can tahan longer than usual oil change mileage.

last time i very poor use cheap mineral oil also go over 10k

Very good. What car btw?
Do you often encounter traffic jams and are you an aggressive driver who likes to rev harder?

Last time my automotive trainer told me
If the engine oil easily change to black colour
The engine oil had better cleaning agent than other engine oil.

Thank you for your valuable comments, folks.

This is a 2007 Toyota Avanza K3VE 1.3L (same as Myvi 1.3L engine).

It has been on minerals Shell 15W40 and 20W50 (SL) for 5000 to 6500 km OCI till around 2010.
From 2010 to 2014 , I switched to better minerals ( ...... I bellieve) in Diesel Engine Oil i.e Petronas Supremo 15W40 CI4/SL/A3B4/MB etc approvals for 6000 to 8500 km OCI.
From 2014 it has been on semi synthetic Quartz 7000 Energy 10W40 till todate.

Driving style ..... I would say it's gentle and smooth gear-change for components protection ...
But morning start never wait for warm up and drive away from stationary within half a minute or so and touching 3000 to 3500 rpm in top gear within say, 1 km travel.
Whenever engine is hot enough, sometimes push to 4500/4700 rpm.
Never drive below 3000 rpm though !
To and fro USJ/KL Sentral about 20-25 minutes or thereabout one way, with short internal travels within Subang Jaya.
Back to Malacca on average 4 to 5 trips in about every 3 months.
Do you consider this as aggressive ? IDK.

Yes, I heard Mobil 1 full synthetic turns dark/black a bit faster as they claim it cleans better than other oils ........ Is that true ?

Hope it helps...

This post has been edited by zeng: Feb 8 2017, 01:10 PM

wow. your oil at 12kkm still look so clean , same like mine at 1kkm.
using same oil like you but at 6kkm the color is almost black .
oci at 6.5kkm. total quartz 7000 semi from tesco. 3rd round already on my saga blm auto.

same color goes to my naza ria using same oil.at 5kkm..

Hard to say as colour hue on dipstick probably is not comparable against colour on Blotter Spots.
I have a feeling your Total could go at least 8000-10000 km no sweat assuming typical history of local oil replacement.
Why not share with us here your Blotter spot test sample.
You need a chromatograhy paper or white coloured name card ...... but I use a letter head ........other people say coarser paper and thinner paper maybe slightly different. IDK.
Mine is a bit coarse type paper and the sample above is about 48 hours after putting the blot, though shorter hours one looks marginally 'better' than this sample.
Refer to my links above in BITOG for some basics if you can.

Edit: My history of oil replacement above would suggest that my sample should be dirtier than others here.
Edit2: This Tesco Quartz Energy 10W40 is fourth round here.

This post has been edited by zeng: Feb 8 2017, 03:05 PM

Just changed my oil last month .
Just snap the oil on both vehicles @1000km
Color almost same..
Top naza ria
Bottom saga blm
Left new (cannot see) above the 500ms mark


Attached thumbnail(s)

Kudos for having taken the first step ....... and it's free and easy ..... keep 'playing' around with Blotter Spot Tests further ...... and along the way , take some 'guessing' out of equation....... enabling quite equal comparison of USA sunkist oranges against Australian sunkist oranges.

You may want to use separate 'paper' of say, A4 size for differrent engine/vehicle/auto transmisssion etc for trending (at a glance without fumbling around with different images while comparing..... ) ....
recording times/km travelled progressively.

Edit: if you are sharing images, may be good to write up oil brand/viscosity grade etc and vehicle brand/model/Turbo/engine or auto transmission etc.

This post has been edited by zeng: Feb 8 2017, 04:19 PM

Hmm maybe I'll give it a try sometime later but I doubt it'll come as clean as yours. Now is already about 9k km so normally I'd change at 10k.

If your targeted OCI is 10k km, then it's best to take Blotter Spot Test sample around 8500-9000 km and/or 9500 km sample with a view of ascertaining whether :
a )You must replace said oil at 10000 km as planned/scheduled if sample shows bad/lousy signs, or
b ) You may have option to extend OCI further if 9000 km sample or 9500 km shows that oil sample still looks nice and promising.

My previous OCI was 11000 km in Aug 2016.
So I took Blotter Spot sample at 10441 km (and at earlier mileage), which I felt OCI could be extended further to either 12000 or 13000 km.
Then at 11700 km and 12200 km , I took another two samples separately (showing far better result than previous Aug 2016 sample of 11000 km ) giving me confidence to possibly push to 13000 km OCI.
Hence my current posting here and on Bitog soliciting for comments .......which you could do the same!

This post has been edited by zeng: Feb 9 2017, 12:54 AM

Where can I get chromatography paper, Sir?

In Malaysia ? Honestly I don't know, mate.
You may have better luck with US online stores like Amazon/Ebay though.
Alternatively business card and coarse texture company correspondence letter head should be easily available.
In times to come, I may try Blotter Spot Tests (BST) on fine texture computer printer paper for comparisons.

Goohtj, do you have 48 hours( or thereabout ) pictures for sharing ?
Appreciate that.

u mean leave the oil sample for 48 hrs?

I mean taking pictures 48 hours or thereabout AFTER depositing the above Blotter Spots of yours ...... as is my picture in post #1.
There is usually minor variations against those taken say, 2 hours after depositing the Blotter BST.

Curious..Did you change the oil filter in between the oil changes? If yes on what mileage?

No.
Filter is of same mileage as this oil, now approaching 12600 km.
Is there something to be wary of ?

This post has been edited by zeng: Feb 10 2017, 08:14 PM

Hmmm...In read somewhere it says that it is better to change the filter every 5k-8k eventhough the oil didn't change. Then just too up the oil. Forgotten where and not sure how true is that though. All i know is original oil filter is the best if compared to other aftermarket brands. Seen the video and filter elements inside in YouTube.

Agree with you that the rule of thumb was filter change in every 2 oil changes totaling 10,000 km.
But, from what I read at bobistheoilguy.com the Americans are habitually changing oil filter at more than 10,000 miles (not km)........
granted our filters used here might differ from theirs.
From this Blotter Spot Tests picture above at 12,238 km mileage (and other pictures with me as well) , I'm of the opinion that this RM12 filter is holding up well so far ......
though it's always to safer to change earlier or as recommended by OEM etc.

I think it highly depends on our driving conditions. For daily stop go traffic as in Penang,Kl, Johor..I think it is better to change the filter earlier. Engines are more strained in these conditions, furthermore the air will be more dusty.
I do not know how well foreign particles are suspended in the oil, so no comment on the blotter spot test for this dirt aspect. . Best is take out the filter and cut it open to check the filter elements.

It's up to 30000 km, the engine keeps record of how you drive, and under what condition, and calculates when it is time to go for an oil change. French and Italian manufacturers go up to 35000 km between oil changes (or even 50000 km for diesel engines). However VW demands inspections at other intervals it seems, which is good because there they hopefully find any upcoming defects before they get serious. IMHO that is very important, 35000 km between oil changes... not much of an issue I believe, but not noticing a small defect that causes other, bigger ones... that is.

wow. Never drive below 3000 rpm? I rarely ever drive above 3000 rpm... usually in town I'm at around 1000 rpm, maybe 1300. Shift gear at 1500-1700. Only on the highway the rpm is higher, because I run out of gears... May I ask why your revs are so high?

Aahh ..... European VW engines, no wonder.
Is this sort of 'intelligent' type of Oil Life Monitor (OLM , being GM's, not VW, terminology) ? ....
and do higher sulphur RON 95 and lower sulphur RON 97 give you different mileages according to OLM ?


Don't get alarmed though. This is 1.3L Avanza gearbox with lousy gear ratio, I have.
3000 rpm is too slow at 90 km/hr.
I drive 100 to 110 km/hr most of the time, and occasionally push to 120-140 km/hr on long distance travel.

Edit:I believe engine oil temperature in higher rpm engine would warm up faster in morning startup with cold ambients.

This post has been edited by zeng: Feb 11 2017, 09:02 PM

I don't fuel up 97 because it's more expensive. Usually I fill up with E10, which is roughly RM 0.10 cheaper than regular 95 (the ethanol content is 10% rather than 5%). 97 is roughly RM 0.50 more (at 50 liters a week or so that makes a difference).

Yup, it's this "intelligent" system I suppose. Without long life oil and with the monitoring turned off the interval is 15000 km. Also, that's for people that mostly do long distance drives (since the engine is already warm... cold starts are the big issue). If you're mostly doing short distance journeys, don't expect to get a 30000 km interval. Some people are reporting significantly less than that. In Malaysia manufacturers seem to prefer to play it safe (or you may say they want to cash in), and truth be told I guess the average driver mostly drives shorter distances.

On the other hand even a cold start in Malaysia is at significantly higher temperatures, and it takes forever for the engine to cool down. Like I could return to my car hours later and the engine was still warm... not 90°C, but above 30°C. In Germany I can be at a traffic light and watch the oil temperature drop with the engine on... A cold start can mean the engine has -20°C when starting on some days, which is much harsher on the oil than it ever could be in Malaysia. Basically, IMHO Malaysia is rather gentle on cars (apart from potholes... but we've got cobblestone, so that's perhaps even worse).

I found an overview of oil change intervals in Germany: Fiat and Alfa Romeo generally get their cars back at the 30000 km mark (diesel 35000 km), which is rather... optimistic. Then again my old Renault diesel was also 35000 km I believe, and the engine was still going strong after 255000 km. Citroen 20k (petrol) 25k diesel. Audi is like VW, 15 to 30k depending on driving style and conditions. Hyundai and Kia are usually 30k, while Toyota is 15k. Not so confident in their engines, it seems.

Ah, no wonder. Yeah, on the motorway my revs are higher too. My car could do with another gear, or a longer 6th, I'm around 2500 rpm at 110 when the engine could easily do that at lower revs. Yes, higher revs would warm up the engine faster (higher loads even more so... so full throttle). However I don't want too high revs at low temperatures when lubrication isn't good. What is really damaging is idling though. Don't idle when the engine is cold, because it does very little to warm it up, so the engine is running forever at low temperatures, leading to premature wear. Start engine, put on seatbelt, go.

Agree with you the Malaysian OEM's play safe and cashing in on local buyers recommending very very short OCI (even with high-priced SC oils) ..... .

The practice of morning start warm up by idling for xx minutes here ... to me is a joke ..... but that's what experts suggest anyway ..... ....

What's your take on relative engine failure rates (or engine life in km travelled) between German (Euro) engines of typically 3x,000 km OCI and Malaysia's Asian car(generally known for durability) <10000 km OCI engine ?

What about vs Msia's Euro engines of VW/Volvo OCI of xx (12000 km ..IDK?) ?

Btw, would appreciate your sharing Blotter picture upload at 30,000 km OCI in times to come ........ that's going to be eye opening for most members here with disbelief .

This post has been edited by zeng: Feb 14 2017, 11:28 AM

Cost benefit , is the cost of an oil change worth the benefit of saving some little money ?

For me the clearer the oil , the less the detergents are cleaning the engine.

Secondly all cars now fitted with exhaust gas recirculation for emission controls , it just dumps so much garbage back into the engine , if the oil isn't picking and holding that garbage , it's going into your cylinder walls and main bearings

I don't think automotive experts are still suggesting that.

Your gearbox still in dem good accurate condition . 90kph is real 3k rpm on 4th gear auto.





Attached thumbnail(s)

Jeez..... thank you for providing gear ratios of an Avanza 1.3L....... I'd no luck from internet previously.
Appreciate if you'd gear ratios for 1994 Wira auto and 2014 Kia K5 auto gear ratios for sharing, mate.
Yeah, would be glad local motorists are aware of the myth on morning start warm up idling practices..


This post has been edited by zeng: Feb 15 2017, 05:55 PM

I haven't heard an expert suggest that in a long time. In those days of carburetors perhaps it still made sense, but how many of those are still around? All modern cars don't need to be warmed up, and shouldn't be warmed up by idling.

I believe my Xsara was always serviced every 20k or 25k, using normal oil, and up until 150k there was no issue. I did end up having a leaking head gasket, but is that related to the engine oil? From what I know that particular engine is rather tough, except for the head gasket. (Fortunately on that engine it's relatively cheap to fix).

I don't know of any higher engine failure rate, and you can find hundreds of Mercedes for sale that have 500000 km or more on the clock.

But I'm not aware of any statistics about engine defects... maybe it's worse than in Malaysia, maybe it isn't.

How to do the blotter test? Can I use normal printing paper? Like 80g, and relatively fine? Just take out the dipstick and let it drop onto the paper? I have one week to do it... oil change is coming up at the end of the month.

I dripped EO on toilet paper, haha.
Here's the result.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Typo on the date for second picture?

For the second picture, oil is dark and contaminated definitely due for a change.

I would advice against using till such condition as with contaminant shown through oil dip means there may be plenty down somewhere within the block, bearing or anywhere within reach of the oil. Clearly the oil filter is no longer working in this case.

Definitely not typo.
The dark one is BEFORE, clear one is AFTER 48hrs.

Cannot brain the logic behind haha. Mind to elaborate on the oil taken before and 48 hours after?

- double post -

This post has been edited by kirakun: Feb 17 2017, 12:18 PM

There's another saying that if your oil is clear, it isn't doing its job in suspending contaminants.

My guess also, is after 48 hours the contaminants in the oil sink to the bottom and stay suspended there leaving a cleaner oil as shown.

Ultimately, it's all guesswork.

The best and proper way is still a UOA. bar none, the end.

Your eyes definitely cannot see metal particles and those you can see are beyond spectrometer that UOA uses and that's actually prompt for concerns.

Both are the same oil, Sir.
It's the same oil drip.
One picture was taken instantly after dripping on paper. After 48hrs took another picture (of the same sample).
From beginning till the end there is only one sample.

I second your opinion. UOA is the most appropriate way to help decide for extended drain.
I did that spot test simply out of curiosity.

Waooooooooooooo .......
fantastic blotter spot at 10600 km you have, Chemistry.
Great combination of Duron 10W30 oil and this engine at 281000 km.
You could've gone on extending OCI further, IMHO.
Btw, care to share the engine/car model with us here ?

Edit:There is simply too heavy a dose of 'myths' on oils in lowyat, IMHO.
Edit2:Without chromatography laboratory paper, it's appropriate to use thick name card/printer paper/letter head etc. for relative comparisons.

This post has been edited by zeng: Feb 17 2017, 01:35 PM

Thanks for the clarification.

I'm still curious though, how did the visually visible contaminants went missing after 48 hours? Dried and evaporated into the thin air?

my guess is there wasn't any visible contaminant in the b4 pic.... the so-called contaminants are uneven spots on the toilet paper temporarily holding a minute amount of used oil, hence visibly darker and mistakenly interpreted as contaminants.

on 2nd pic, the oil spreaded/blotted over the paper over time so cant "see" the contaminants anymore.

Would anybody here says it's pure magic play by Chemistry ?

I do agree on the oil doing it's part as a part time cleaner for the engine however i'll say the color of the oil will be a more appropriate marker as the gauge, don't u think so? With that being said, isn't the oil filter supposed to filter the contaminants down to 5 or 10 microns(human hair is 45-70 micron)?

Since the oil filter is present and doing the filtration, how can the visually visible contaminants still present in oil dip? A clear indicator that the engine is mighty dirty or just the oil filter/oil is way due for replacement or both.

Don't get me wrong i also do agree that UOA is the proper mean to gauge the properties of the oil though.

This post has been edited by kirakun: Feb 17 2017, 01:35 PM

Perhaps chemistry should do another try, this time on a proper base to find out haha.

Edit: I have done spot test as well before on tissue and toilet papers but the unevenness observed was in patches rather than dots lol.

This post has been edited by kirakun: Feb 17 2017, 01:38 PM

I agree, still too much guessing here. I'd just rather follow the normal recommended OIC for my car which is 10k km using FS oil and be done with it. It's easy to remember some more, rather than every time try to extend but no peace of mind, plus the km extension makes it falls on uneven numbers of km for OIC. Just not worth it IMHO.

I think so too.
I shall do another test, for consistency , hehe..

Second test? No problem.
But my car parked rather far now...lol

Nissan AD Resort Y10, engine GA16 carburetor.
At hand now I have some bank statement white papers, i shall use the blank side for BST later.

Bank/Telco statements are good enough for our purpose,
no need wasting money go buy costly 'chromatography papers' from gwailo countries and start bragging here how good is 'chromatography papers' over bank statement papers bla... bla.... bla...
and condemning the use of 'sub standard' bank statement papers in lowyat............
leading to rubbish/guessing/tak bolih pakai results bla .... bla ... bla....

Btw, do show both the 0-0.5 hrs Blot spot AND the 48 hrs Blot spot to debunk some of the above ............rxxxxxh statements!

Noted that.
Will post here once completed.

Hundred of 500000 km used cars for sale in Europe ? ..... with typical 20000 to 30000 km OCI !
Over here, typically with fullsyn OCI of 6000 to 10000 km ,
semisyn OCI at 5000 to 8000 and
mineral OCI at 3000 to 5000 km , we don't see many used cars at 500,000 km for sales here... ...
Any wonder ......so much fears of OCI monsters being propagated in lowyat ?

Yes, printer paper would serve the 'crude' purpose.
IME, the thicker the better. Max at name card thickness.

Edit:
http://www.magna-guard.com/OneDrop.html
http://www.gwrauto.com/One%20Drop.htm
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/4...otter-spot-test
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/4...ter-spot-method
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/2...ant-dispersancy
http://media.noria.com/sites/archive_image...tter-tab1-2.gif

Note-Machinerylubrication/Noria is sort of 'authority' on lubrication.

This post has been edited by zeng: Feb 17 2017, 09:35 PM

There is no doubt in my mind that this Duron XL 0W30 has done great in the AD Resort GA18 'carburretted" (another kudos to Duron) engines, pending further Blot spots.

In the end all guesswork.

And if you say its supposed to filter that low micron, your eyes also can't see them how do you determine the darker color is contaminant and is not deteriorated oil?

And even even I mention deteriorated oil, how deteriorated do you know it is? You cant gauge viscosity properly nor can you check flash point or insolubles.

My oil samples are way darker than that due to rough /high stress /track usage and yet UOA turn out fine.

Logic here: if your oil filter is so good, you also don't need to oil change and supposedly all your drained oil would look damn nice right? (assuming you use good oil)

And again, all I posted here, would all be estimates /guesswork without a proper UOA

There is no need to get agitated. I never claimed that "my oil filter" is that good. Also didn't claim viscosity of the oil can be determined through visual inspection nor flash point or any else. Just pointing out that the fact on how an oil filter can filter accordingly as per what was stated. Taking no credit here nor deserve any. Also what I state by gauging the condition of the oil is also based on my point of view that it is absolutely not practical for me and I believe the majority here to get a UOA analysis done during OCI. So I'll just based on the typical recommended mileage aside from color of the oil and buttfeel to know when and at what mileage an oil change is required. But again that's just me.

Guesswork ............... oorrrrrr ....... spewing utter RUBBISH here !





https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthread...ang#Post4325795

What's the credentials of poster SonofJoe ???
........... read on in Bitog!

Note: AO=Anti Oxidants ..... an additive in (engine) oils.

This post has been edited by zeng: Feb 17 2017, 04:12 PM

Not agitated at all. Just trying to highlight of the unknown variables that we just couldn't conclude anything.

?:
- oil filter
- Oil
- Wear
- Contaminants

Besides, given the resistance even on a Blotter test, good luck on convincing people for a proper UOA that involves so much more money
(even for myself, it's been a very long time since my last UOA)

Blunt lol.

.

A personal butt feel review on Liqui Moly Top Tec 4100 5w40 synthetic blend:

- Oil goes dark after 4 months of use and 5k km mileage
- Engine significantly consume more fuel onward
- Engine noise during cold start is significantly louder and a slightly rougher drive onward

OC done to mobil 1 0w40 after 6 months at 7k km mileage.

Using on 2GR-FE engine.

Just can't bring myself to let it slide on to 10k km lol.

Previously was on Motul H-Tech 100 plus 5w30, also done the OC around 6k km mileage. Same occurrence.

maybe off-topic..... i think you cant blame the liqui moly tt4100 as its literature clearly states that "Use only in conjunction with sulfur-free diesel fuel!".... and our euro2m has 500ppm sulphur, no way can be termed as sulphur-free.

maybe you should pick a more robust mid-sap engine oil rather than a low-sap oil.

Hi, seems like different sampling method results in different appearance . On toilet paper it ended up as clear brown circle, but on printing paper it came out as dark circle (not dark spot btw). Not sure if this is final appearance, or Will it change again after 48hrs?
Anyway, feel free to comment. Thanks everyone.

Car make: Nissan AD Resort 1.6L
Engine: GA16 carburetted
Odometer: 281912km
EO: Duron XL 0w30
Clocked mileage: 10912km

This post has been edited by chemistry: Feb 18 2017, 03:32 PM


Attached thumbnail(s)

So... I just pull out the dip stick, and let it drop onto paper? I've got some, mh, 150-200 mg higher quality printing paper that I'm going to use.

Thank you Chemistry for the preliminary pictures.
It debunks nonsense like:
a) ...your oil is clear, it isn't doing its job in suspending contaminants;
b).... after 48 hours the contaminants in the oil sink to the bottom and stay suspended there leaving a cleaner oil as shown;
c) ...Your eyes definitely cannot see metal particles etc etc .....
spewing unsubstantiated rubbish here while we are on another type(or method) of oil analysis among the many currently being practised in the industry!

Just as variations in UOA titration methodology, vigorousness, temperature , time duration etc in better regulated laboratory practices can affect and influence negatively on results and/or conclusions ...... hence the need for consisstency in paper medium (as printer/ letter head papers etc) and pictures after 24/48 hours etc is equally helpful in consistency .....
Yes, it changes in the first 48 hours or so......
Awaiting the 48 hour picture .

Yes, let it drop onto the paper or let it touches the paper whichever you feel comfortable and consistent.
150-200 mg paper would be good.
Try observe how the blots changes during the first 48 hours, and upload pictures for comment, meanwhile noting down OLM percentage left at OCI.

OLM?

Oops ..... GM's terminology of Oil Life Monitor (given in percentage), VW calls it some other name ...... that indicates the time by the car engine when oil change is due.
This enables a comparison of OLM reading against Blotter Spot Test picture/condition or physical visual inspection.

48hrs done.

Thanks, Chemistry.

My quick amateurish guess, subject to challenge by the experienced, hands-on AND learned members........
and being overthrown ..... hehehe

a1)The Centre Zone (assuming 8 mm diameter at centre/point of blot deposit ) is transparent/translucent meaning not opaque and slightly grayish indicating deposits of (heaviest portion of) high molecular weight rubbish like combustion carbonaceous byproducts/insolubles/wear metals Fe Cu /resins etc etc .

a2)Good news is..... this 8 mm Centre Zone is not sharp and clear;it's not opaque; and colour is not very dark carbon black (hitam manis) and 8 mm perimeter line is not clear and sharp and shining yet.

b1)The Diffusion Zone of ( Outer Diameter max at say, 30 mm ) AND (Inner Diameter of 8 mm) .......
actually it is an annulus enclosing the Centre Zone ......
is generally lighter colour than Centre Zone .....
because the dispersants in oils take lighter weight rubbish like combustion byproducts/resins etc (of lower molecular weight) in an outward direction as the oil is travelling/seeping away from the Centre Zone.

b2)Good news is this Diffusion Zone is not darkish and its expanded Outer Diameter OD the bigger the better (in relation to the size of Centre Zone ), assuming a known quantity (in drops?) is constant.

c) Refering to postings in my Bitog thread, your 48 hour Blot Spot is what they call 'there is no structures' or 'the structures are very light and mild' ...........
meaning the used oil sample had been holding up well, whatever its mileage of xx km, and is still in continuing serviceable condition.

d) SonofJoe would call it in the midst of Phase 1, whereby he too commented (in primary/secondary stages of ... i.e in my classification )Phase 2 is deemed good.

e) I would 'speculate' that after you add another few thousand kilometres of use in this 10,912 km sample , 'some' members from Bitog might still classify it as Phase 1, though another may say it's Phase 2.

f) Several purely 'technical' and 'physics' commmentaries by several experienced members from Bitog (who had actually personnally do and evaluate the 'job' by their own physical 'hands and fingers' whilst referencing materials in the web .......
may form a solid basis for you to consider and making assessments and finally making your own call.
Do consider and just take comments from 'arm chair' commentators carefully (to avoid being confused) , and in certain cases, with a pinch of salt....... typically in www ....

g) One thing is certain, your engine has no glycol contamination problem and no severe fuel dilution problem, as yet.

So, should you replace this 10912 km used fullsyn Duron XL 0W30 immediately ????
Well , that's your call ..... adopting/abandoning certain 'opinions' and 'suggestions' along the way.

I had been keeping going ... on and on ....
until a day/mileage where I'm not comfortable with the onset and appearance of a 'very sharp and dark black hitam manis and opaque' Centre Zone ......
which I believe I had yet to see it in my 12238 km sample of semisyn Quartz 7000 Energy 10W40.

To each his own !!

Just my 2 sen

This post has been edited by zeng: Feb 19 2017, 06:28 PM

Many thanks for taking time to comment here.
Although it's kinda too technical for me to understand, it's good to hear u said “no glycol contamination & no severe fuel dilution”, I believe many would not want this to happen.

On another note, Duron XL 0w30 is actually a synthetic blend HDEO. And yes, before posting here I already planned next change when this oil completed 12000km. My friends asked me don't be too stingy with EO, you know what, this Duron XL has been in service since December 2015.

Sorry for misrepresenting XL 0W30 as fullsyn oils.
Generally dual rated HDEO oils is more stout than PCMO oils, I believe.

Hahaha ......> 14 months usage ........
so much for the myth here that engine oil must be replaced at not more than 12 months.

At 12000 km OCI, appreciate if you could upload here its Blotter Spot Tests pictures for comparisons.

This post has been edited by zeng: Feb 21 2017, 12:23 PM

Semi Synthetic Total Quartz 7000 Energy 10W40 A3B4 SL,
in 2007 Toyota Avanza 1.3L K3VE,
13,000 km..... and going .......

2 hour blot attached.

This post has been edited by zeng: Feb 23 2017, 10:00 PM

Passsing 13,000 km ...... and soldiering on .... towards 8500 miles (13,600 km) OCI.
Quartz Energy 10W40 semi synthetics in Avanza K3VE 1.3L engine..
48 hour blot spot.

Update: 13673 km and going..
Total Quartz Energy 10W40.
72 hour Blot Spot.

Update: 14218 km (8886 miles) ...... and going.
Semi synthetic Total Quartz 7000 Energy 10W40 in service .
66 hour Blotter Spot.

Looks healthy .....

Do you still remember when you did the oil change?

Yes, this Quartz semisyn was replaced in week 1 of August 2016 .... so till date is about 7.5 months.
I earlier mistook it as Apr 2016, which was for 1994 Wira 1.5 using HDEO 15W40.

For those vehicle that can do ODI up to 20,000 KM,The engine is EURO 3,4 or 5 spec, using Fully synthetic oil and some with 'Long life specification" and original oil filter.

As mostly oem recommended maximun 10K for oil drain interval because of oil filter,engine oil additive lifespan and depend on the engine design.

The engine oil contain engine oil additive which will ageing over the time,your oil may look clean but the engine oil additive that add in the engine oil will had rapid additive depletion due to our petrol sulfur contain,hot weather in malaysia, always having short distance driving,dirty or blocked air cleaner ,stuck in traffic jam and so on.

Just my 2 cent about engine oil ODI information.

ISUZU MUX oil drain interval is 20K based on OEM.

Maybe other got better idea why some vehicle had longer oil drain interval?

This post has been edited by devildevil87: Mar 25 2017, 09:42 AM

I had been monitoring UOA's of fully synthetic ; semi synthetic and mineral oils in America ......
and read-up on Blotter Spot tests method online .....
and hence pushing for longer OCI's which may be deemed as 'uncharted waters' .....
as a contribution to lowyat forum.

Edit:As of today, touching 14900 km ...... and going.

This post has been edited by zeng: Mar 26 2017, 07:45 PM

Hi, finally done 12k km.

Car make: Nissan AD Resort 1.6L
Engine: GA16 carburetted
EO used: Duron XL 0w30 (API CH4/SJ) synthetic blend
Mileage clocked: 12707km