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 Blotter Spot Test Oil Analysis:VOA Helix HX7 5W30, 17,834 km blotter M1 NewLife 0W40(Tesco)

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alphaz
post Mar 30 2018, 02:16 PM

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Aisin FS 5W30 (non-PAO)
Hyundai Elantra 1.8 G4GB
Picture taken 20 hrs after.
Current mileage 13,536 km.

Attached Image

This post has been edited by alphaz: Mar 30 2018, 02:16 PM
TSzeng
post Mar 31 2018, 06:47 PM

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QUOTE(alphaz @ Mar 30 2018, 02:16 PM)
Aisin FS 5W30 (non-PAO)
Hyundai Elantra 1.8 G4GB
Picture taken 20 hrs after.
Current mileage 13,536 km.

Attached Image
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This 10 hr blotter spot doesn't show up any 'shape' of a centre zone and that is a good indication of serviceable oil, though at 48-72 hr a centre zone may be observable clearly or faintly, IDK.

I would speculate this oil [Aisin FS 5W30 (non-PAO)] is of high quality though it's said to be non-PAO and is still serviceable for another several thousand km say, up to 16,000-18,000 km.

You may take another blotter spot after 1500-2000 km if you are extending its oil change.



TSzeng
post Mar 31 2018, 06:58 PM

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QUOTE(speedy3210 @ Mar 28 2018, 05:03 PM)
Thanks for the comment, zeng.

Actually this engine is minutely burning oil. I suspect it is due to worn valve stem seals as there is zero oil stains anywhere.

Had to change out the sampled oil right after I did the blot test, as oil level has reached uncomfortably low (for me) and no point to top up. Changed with another 3.5litre of Aisin PAO+Ester.

Previously was on 2x Totachi FS Touring 5W-40 which was on sale in Lazada. Also ran through Kendal GT1 LT 5W-30, M1 0W-40 and Shell Ultra 5W-40. Basically whichever oil I can get on discount (circa RM130-160 range), without breaking the bank.

I bought this car pre-loved, so I have no idea how it fared on previous ownership. Once I got it, in went the SHU and M1 for cleaning. I can only track from its 79k-th km onwards, till now 194k. OCI would vary between 10-14k km and ori Hyundai (Mann manufactured) oil filter.
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Oil consumption due to hardened valve stem seals can be assessed on early morning start first thing in the morning by looking up for bluish exhaust smoke upon start-up.
Alternatively oil consumption may be caused by worn piston ring sets by looking up for coloured smoke upon engine deceleration/acceleration at medium speed cruising.

Not sure about Totachi and Kendall, the M1 0W40 and Shell Ultra 5W40 are top tier oils even suitable for most European Continental engines.

Not sure why a lowish 200,000 km engine has oil consumption issue whilst its combustion system looks top form.

This post has been edited by zeng: Mar 31 2018, 07:02 PM
Boy96
post Mar 31 2018, 09:09 PM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Mar 31 2018, 06:58 PM)
Oil consumption due to hardened valve stem seals can be assessed on early morning start first thing in the morning by looking up for bluish exhaust smoke upon start-up.
Alternatively oil consumption may be caused by worn piston ring sets by looking up for coloured smoke upon engine deceleration/acceleration at medium speed cruising.


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No smoke at all from the exhaust and no leaks but yet 90% of the engine oil dissapears within 2.5k KM. Not mixed with coolant nor any check engine lights..

What maybe the issue?
TSzeng
post Apr 2 2018, 12:23 PM

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QUOTE(Boy96 @ Mar 31 2018, 09:09 PM)
No smoke at all from the exhaust and no leaks but yet 90% of the engine oil dissapears within 2.5k KM. Not mixed with coolant nor any check engine lights..

What maybe the issue?
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What's your engine model and whether there is a cooler installed in the engine compartment ?
Boy96
post Apr 2 2018, 12:25 PM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Apr 2 2018, 12:23 PM)
What's your engine model and whether there is a cooler installed in the engine compartment ?
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Peugeot 308 THP156 engine, not sure about coolers..
TSzeng
post Apr 3 2018, 09:56 AM

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QUOTE(Boy96 @ Apr 2 2018, 12:25 PM)
Peugeot 308 THP156 engine, not sure about coolers..
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Someone on auto world wrote about this engine has a problem of oil entering intake manifold and gets burnt.
If it's true, then it causes engine oil consumption, though I'm not sure it's valid or not.
Maybe you can google to find out more.
wkc5657
post Apr 3 2018, 10:43 AM

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QUOTE(Boy96 @ Apr 2 2018, 12:25 PM)
Peugeot 308 THP156 engine, not sure about coolers..
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I believe he meant the intercooler.

Another place for leaking oil is the turbocharger turbine bearings. The turbocharger turbine lubrication share the same engine oil as the crankcase. Those can leak oil after some time.

Better bring it in for a peugeot specialist to get it checked, losing so much oil in 2500km is definitely not normal, and in my opinion really serious. Your engine is almost at the point of starvation, very bad for lubrication and cause cooling issues too. The timing chain quality is quite a time bomb for your car and it requires good lubrication to keep it in good condition.

Although some members already pointed out a number of possibility, likely yours is a combination of issues.
ahsam1212
post Apr 3 2018, 12:42 PM

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Interesting topic here, and I wonder what's the observation time after dropping the oil on paper?
Some with 1 hour photo, some with 24 hour photo.
Seems not much info from the Internet to interpret the oil condition. Maybe Zeng can explain a little more.

I tried my engine oil, at about 5k km travelled, and could see a center black ring after a day. Does it mean that oil is not carrying the soot well? It's done with A4 paper.

Let me do it again and snap a photo these few days.
TSzeng
post Apr 3 2018, 07:31 PM

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QUOTE(wkc5657 @ Apr 3 2018, 10:43 AM)
I believe he meant the intercooler.

Another place for leaking oil is the turbocharger turbine bearings. The turbocharger turbine lubrication share the same engine oil as the crankcase. Those can leak oil after some time.

Better bring it in for a peugeot specialist to get it checked, losing so much oil in 2500km is definitely not normal, and in my opinion really serious. Your engine is almost at the point of starvation, very bad for lubrication and cause cooling issues too. The timing chain quality is quite a time bomb for your car and it requires good lubrication to keep it in good condition.

Although some members already pointed out a number of possibility, likely yours is a combination of issues.
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My rule of thumb limited understanding on intercooler is that the turbocharged compressed air (which is hot) is cooled by water through bottom hose from radiator and probably there is no oil passage within intercooler.

Turbocharger bearings having oil leaks, I'm not sure though.

TSzeng
post Apr 3 2018, 07:40 PM

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QUOTE(ahsam1212 @ Apr 3 2018, 12:42 PM)
Interesting topic here, and I wonder what's the observation time after dropping the oil on paper?
Some with 1 hour photo, some with 24 hour photo.
Seems not much info from the Internet to interpret the oil condition. Maybe Zeng can explain a little more.

I tried my engine oil, at about 5k km travelled, and could see a center black ring after a day. Does it mean that oil is not carrying the soot well? It's done with A4 paper.

Let me do it again and snap a photo these few days.
*
I personally prefer comparing blotter spot tests pictures of 48 hours and/or 72 hours ..... as it sort of 'matures' by this time , and it's done for consistency of evaluation.

Agree there is no comprehensive literatures from internet , other than a few links provided in post #1.
Have a read over there.

Dark grey or black coloured spot indicates presence of contaminants and combustion by products.

Emergence of clear dark centre rings indicates dispersancy property of oils begins to deteriorate, IMHO.

Without a 48 hr or 72 hr blotter spots, it's hard to comment on soot etc.

wkc5657
post Apr 4 2018, 01:20 PM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Apr 3 2018, 07:31 PM)
My rule of thumb limited understanding on intercooler is that the turbocharged compressed air (which is hot) is cooled by water through bottom hose from radiator and probably there is no oil passage within intercooler.

Turbocharger bearings having oil leaks, I'm not sure though.
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Most factory intercoolers are air cooled, water cooled types are usually exotic mods.

Turbochargers can leak oil on the turbine bearings. Here's a write up :

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


From : https://www.ebay.com/gds/TURBOCHARGER-OIL-L...78320282/g.html
TSzeng
post Apr 5 2018, 09:18 PM

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Thanks for the write up on turbo bearing oil leaks.
ahsam1212
post Apr 6 2018, 11:00 PM

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OK.. Here's go my blotter spot test.
Kenari standard 1L engine. Mileage 133k.
Current oil mileage is about 6k km, with perodua 5w-30 semi synthetic, gold bottle.
Black centre ring is obvious, but oil is not that dirty yet.
Any 5w-30 budget oil that has good performance to intro?


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TSzeng
post Apr 7 2018, 08:58 AM

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QUOTE(ahsam1212 @ Apr 6 2018, 11:00 PM)
OK.. Here's go my blotter spot test.
Kenari standard 1L engine. Mileage 133k.
Current oil mileage is about 6k km, with perodua 5w-30 semi synthetic, gold bottle.
Black centre ring is obvious, but oil is not that dirty yet.
Any 5w-30 budget oil that has good performance to intro?
blotter

You're right ahsam,the oil is not that dirty yet.
If I may add this used oil is still serviceable and has some reasonable life from now on.

Agree with you its black centre ring is visible or obvious ......
and this indicates dispersancy property of this oil at some 6000 km usage ,begins to 'breakdown' ..........
and that's perfectly normal in a used oil sample like yours and it's not the end of the world or due for oil condemnation.

Do note the centre zone(or area) within the 'black' centre (perimeter,circumferrential) ring is transparent and light coloured ..... and that's good news as it's not opaque and dark(or black) coloured......
indicating oil dispersancy is still performing as intended/designed and hence serviceable.

I wouldn't say this Perodua 5W30 semisyn doesn't have good performance ..... yet, and it seems to be doing ok as of now.

If you haven't dumped the oil, do another blotter spot test some 2000 km down the road, and evaluate from there.IMHO.

This post has been edited by zeng: Apr 7 2018, 09:03 AM
ahsam1212
post Apr 7 2018, 04:22 PM

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Will be using this oil for another 2k km. Normally I run it about 8k+ before oil change. Let's wait n see the result then. BTW, the photo was taken after about 26 hours. Will do again in another 1k km.
Thanks Zeng for your comment.
[Ancient]-XinG-
post Apr 7 2018, 07:58 PM

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Only found this useful thread!!!

Any sifu here twach me?

Toyota Vios NCP 42, Engine: 1NZ-FE

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Petronas Synthium 800. Change every 5000km.

Do I need to post 24 hours? 72 hours?

Image attached is 12 hours
TSzeng
post Apr 7 2018, 08:55 PM

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QUOTE(ahsam1212 @ Apr 7 2018, 04:22 PM)
Will be using this oil for another 2k km. Normally I run it about 8k+ before oil change. Let's wait n see the result then. BTW, the photo was taken after about 26 hours. Will do again in another 1k km.
Thanks Zeng for your comment.
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You're most welcome.
Btw, is this Perodua SN or SM?
TSzeng
post Apr 7 2018, 09:20 PM

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QUOTE(Ancient-XinG- @ Apr 7 2018, 07:58 PM)
Only found this useful thread!!!

Any sifu here twach me?

Toyota Vios NCP 42, Engine: 1NZ-FE

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Petronas Synthium 800. Change every 5000km.

Do I need to post 24 hours? 72 hours?

Image attached is 12 hours
https://forum.lowyat.net/uploads/attach-99/...-1523026597.jpg
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Glad that you find this thread useful.
Post #1 has some links for reading, and blotter spot pictures for comparison.
This Syntium 800 10W40 has quite a strong specs,

Attached Image
The blotter would 'mature' at 48 hours or more, and may provide more consistent evaluation, IMHO.
Upload one when you have it for general comments, if you may.

This post has been edited by zeng: Apr 7 2018, 09:46 PM
[Ancient]-XinG-
post Apr 7 2018, 10:13 PM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Apr 7 2018, 09:20 PM)
Glad that you find this thread useful.
Post #1 has some links for reading, and blotter spot pictures for comparison.
This Syntium 800 10W40 has quite a strong specs,

Attached Image
The blotter would 'mature' at 48 hours or more, and may provide more consistent evaluation, IMHO.
Upload one when you have it for general comments, if you may.
*
Hmm... so meaning, I take another picture of 48 hours only can comment?

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