according to this shit, its still SL, but you are right, its with MB229.3 approval.
btw, í'm using this too now for my city 2011, bought it from giant as well. i googled SL and was a bit shocked as its recommended for car older



but fortunately, i looked into the car manual and it says can accept SL and above.
in any case, i bought aisin for my next oil change.

This post has been edited by cempedaklife: Jan 7 2022, 09:58 AM

There is a lowyat query on the rather substantial difference in prices between HX8 5W30 open market (or probably HX8 X for Malaysian market) and Helix Ultra 5W40, should not their oil formulations and quality differ as well?

Please note that we are speaking in the context that all three oil formulations i.e:
1) HX8 5W30,
2) HX8 X 5W30 and
3) SHU 5W40)
are all MB 229.5 approved oils.

First off from my limited research, HX8 and HX8 X 5W30 (MB229.5 and SN) are of similar oil formulations in terms of similar base oil (as both being Shell GTL/XHVI base oils) and similar additive package (and supplier) if I may speculate.

My basis is by looking at their respective Viscosity Indices, Flash Points and Pour Points namely:

HX8* 5W30 VI(163) FP(244°C) and PP (-48°C)

*Note:Basing on HX8 MB229.3 as HX8 MB229.5 PDS somehow not available online.

vs
HX8 X 5W30 VI(177) FP(230°C) and PP (-45°C)


From the above, it appears to me both their base oils quite similar in being Shell GTL (Group 3+) mixing with very little if any, Shell XVHI (Group 3) base oils.

Contrast the above 2 HX8's with:
SHU 5W40 VI(168) FP(242°C) and PP (-45°C),


which I understand it to be 100% GTL (of thicker viscosity vs that of HX8 5W30 base oils) and free from Shell XHVI base oil.

Now, could the two HX8's with MB 229.5 approval contains zero or no XHVI Group 3 base oil, but of thinner viscosity vs that of SHU 5W40 ?

IDK but it is possible if I may speculate.

One thing is certain, 5W30 and 5W40 base oil resultant viscosities are different.

This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 8 2022, 05:50 PM

Shell did not make a mistake. It is common to label API SL or CI-4 instead of API SN/SP or CJ-4/CK-4 on modern engine oils that cannot meet the sulfur/phosphorus/sulfated ash limit (catalytic converter). This also affects TEOST test (direct injection & turbo)

See the Shell API SL label again, it said it meets all API SN engine tests

I don't believe this has any impact on the performance of the engine oil.

On the viscosity side, Shell's 5W-30 and 5W-40 are so close to each other

Thank you bro for uploading this chronology of API Sx specfications launching year (shall link it to Post #1) from:
19xx - API SA
1930 - API SB
...
...
2001 - SL
2004 - SM
2011 - SN
2017*- SN+ and
2020*- SP




Note*: Correct me if I'm wrong.

This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 10 2022, 01:08 PM

Mobil 1 New Life 0W40 (Tesco) MB229.5
Oil Life : 17,834 km
13 months oil life.
ODO :331,847 km in
Car model: Toyota Avanza 1.3L
Engine: K3VE Multi Port Injection
Added some 100 mL of graphited engine oil in Elf Molygraphite 15W50 .
Make up oil added : Yes, about 500 mL (of Shell HX5 15W40) mid December 2021.
Oil level seems to drop by about 500 mL.

72 hour blotters,





Current oil is replaced with another 6+ year old pack Mobil 1 New Life 0W40 (Tesco)

Comments to follow, next week.

Ok, following is my observations and comments:

The centre zone is not blackish or darkish but a bit greyish and not so transparent....
indicating presence of a certain level of heavy or high-density contaminants in the form of metal wear particles which I believe is harmless for now.

There is absence or non-emergence of darkened aureole zone/perimeter ring indicating no agglomeration of dirt particles has commenced.

It also points to detergency and dispersancy properties of used oil is still on top of situations and remains effective.

The diffusion zone is a bit yellowish and generally is not opague indicating a certain levels of light and low-density contaminants and combustion by-products are floating within this 17834 km blotter sample, still with residual life remaining.

The outermost edge of brownish jagged zig-zag indicating the phenomenon of oil oxidation and moisture being present.

There seems to be no sign of translucent halo at the outermost zone pointing to absence of fuel dilution within the used oil.

As usual, there is no signs of water coolant contamination within this M1 0W40 used oil sample.

This oil is replaced in conjunction with valve cover gasket replacement.

This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 19 2022, 01:22 PM

Btw, this time my mechanic took the trouble to caution me on his doubt about the quality or genuineness of my bottle of Mobil 1 New Life 0W40 (Tesco)



Note: This new Tesco 0W40 was 7.5 year old and bottled on 29 July 2014!

He explains that this Mobil 1 New Life 0W40 of mine is very dark brownish/amber in colour , comparing against side by side the very light clear yellowish M1 Advance Full Synthetic 0W40 (supplied by him) shown below:




This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 19 2022, 01:52 PM

sealed oil got how long on the shelf life ?
maybe the 2014 oil already started to oxidize hence the oil color start to change into darker color ?

This post has been edited by 90Boyz: Jan 19 2022, 04:21 PM

Mobil has randomly mentioned shelf life of sealed oil in proper storage conditions (like in shade within warehouse free from direct sunlight) is good for a duration of up to 5 years.

I haven't personally encounter online suggesting sealed oil shelf life of 7 years or 10 as being acceptable or fine either. CMIIMW.

You have a basis in suggesting this 7.5 yo M1 has commenced oxidation before use, and 'this' oxidation may have made my M1 New Life looks brownish/amberish in relation to my mechanic's current stock of M1 Adv Full Synthetic.

However, I had come across a small number of UOAs' (used oil analyses) of oils with shelf life exceeding 7 or 10 years being put into engines' usage/operation at reasonable mileage and all had returned with reasonably good or acceptable metal wear rates in the final analysis.

Hence, pre-use longer term storage 'oxidation' phenomenon...... I'm not worried base on above scenario.

Evidence and facts? I must confess I don't have one off-hand ATM.

You may also wish to take note that both the M1s' above has MB 229.5 - approval (over and above API SN specs) that OEM recommends 30,000 km oil change intervals .....
to which I am not intending to stretch that far.

Incidentally, all my 3-4 previous packs of M1s' in use are probably around the same age as this sample (with several more 4L packs in my store room waiting to be put into use in several years to come) and I'm of the opinion that their blotter spot tests at up to 15-20k kms, thus far, seems to hold up fine in my 'biased' opinion.

Also note the following points in the context of development and production of Toyota/Daihatsu K3 series engine in relation to launch dates of API SJ/SL/SM/SN (of which New Life is one):







This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 20 2022, 11:08 AM

Hello bro zeng, I'm the one with Hilux Revo 2019 & Helix Protect 0W-30 A3/B4, can't quote your reply for unknown reason..

I'm thinking of using Shell Helix Ultra ECT C2/C3 0W-30 for my next oil change, out of curiosity to compare it with my current Helix Protect 0W-30 A3/B4.

My manual recommends 5W-30, 10W-30, 15W-40, 20W-50, API CF/CF-4 or B1, B2, B3, B4, B5; oil change interval is 5,000km.

The above recommendation is for Euro II, 500ppm sulfur diesel fuel. For Euro IV, 50ppm sulfur, the oil change interval is 10,000km.

Currently, I only pump Shell's Euro 5 diesel fuel, 10ppm sulfur, thus explains my current 10,000km oil change interval using A3/B4 oil.

In the manual, particularly for Japan & Europe, with Euro 5 & 6 diesel fuel, 10ppm & lower sulfur content, the oil recommendation is 0W-30 C2, 10,000km oil change interval.

The recommendation above for Euro 5 & 6 diesel fuel sparks my interest in using C2 grade engine oil, as I currently using Shell's Euro 5, 10ppm sulfur diesel fuel.

What's your opinion on this bro?

Honda City GM2 year 2009
Current Odo : 162,837km
Date: 16/05/2022
Blotter time : 8:00am (picture after 48hrs)
oil age : 7,780km
Engine oil used : Honda Genuine Engine Oil Silver SP Semi Synthetic 5w30

This post has been edited by 90Boyz: May 23 2022, 11:03 AM

Already 7000+ km lor.. better change if you want to have a clean engine inside.

yea, already bought the engine oil & Oil filter for servicing , just that this few weekends kinda busy with project so have to drag abit on the service schedule.

Hi all,

There is total absence of relatively darkened Centre zone (of about 8 mm diameter on physical blotter sample) indicating a rather low level of high density and/or heavy metallic wear particles in this 7780 km blotter spot sample.

No sign of darkened aureole zone or ring (surrounding or encircling the centre zone) is present indicating absence of agglomeration phenomenon of oil contaminants or dirts ..... pointing to tip top detergency and dispersancy capabilities of this HGEO 5W30 SP which are still intact as formulated.

The diffusion zone (surrounding the aureole zone, if any) is generally transparent, light coloured and not quite gray indicating a low levels of low-density or light weight contaminants (such as soot, combustion byproducts etc) leaving plenty of room for the oil sample to receive and absord additional quantities of said contaminants as intended.

Darkened zigzag edges (surrounding the diffusion zone) is absent indicating there is no or undetectable oil oxidation phenomenon and water moisture content within the oil sample.

Absence of translucent halo (surrounding non-existent darkened edges) indicates absence of fuel dilution phenomenon, which is typical in a Honda City engine.

Overall, I would rate this 7780 km HGEO 5W30 SP blotter spot sample as still in top shape and fit for continuing service with plenty of oil life left.

Just my 2 sen.


Edit: I suppose you meant to say the blotter sampling date as 16/05/2022.

This post has been edited by zeng: May 23 2022, 10:09 AM

Hey TS, wanted to check in with your opinion on my engine oil test. Car is milotin 1.5L Maibi manual.

P2 Myvi 1.5 2012
Odo : 165150 km
Date: 6-7/9/2022 on cheapass recycled A4 paper)
Oil Age : +- 4500km/10000km, 3/6m interval

Current engine oil mix is a bit zhapalang of 5w30 leftovers though (oldest shelf life about 3yrs):
- About 60% Castrol Magnatec Start Stop Fully Syn 5w30
- About 40% of Motul 5w30 + Shell Ultra 5w30 Fully Syn

Car history is fully syn mostly with on time servicing. Engine has recently run through a carbon cleaning via throttle body injection about 2 weeks before taking the sample. Fuel also 2 got tanks with injector cleaner about the same time.

There are 2 sets of samples here, 2 drops each time for consistency, left was first and right was a day later w time since the sample was taken. I got a bit concerned over the oil still being clear, but forming rings indicating soot/contamination? I used a 2nd piece of paper to get the next set on the right to validate, but the rings did not seem to form as clearly even though taken cold as well. Hot sample was taken for reference.

The dark paper marks appeared after the oil was left overnight. Initially the moire patterns were not really there. Reason of concern: I am using an oil air filter that probably is not quite as great at filtration over the past 1.5yrs in the name of airflow and efficiency. Am worried if its causing severe wear, or maybe if it might be remnants of the carbon cleaning? Drive wise the engine feels perfectly fine and no noticeable loss of power/smoothness/etc throughout its life. The carbon cleaning did noticeably reduce low rpm vibrations after, so its really hard for me to tell by feel if the engine is different than the years before.

Note 1st and 2nd test were on different A4's. 2nd one all on the same piece.



This post has been edited by Dezs: Sep 10 2022, 01:15 AM

Thank you for the quite a detailed elaboration of sample taking.

For consistent comparison, I'm looking at the LHS 24 hr hot sample among the six and assume it as 10,000 km sample, CMIIMW.

There is absence of a darkened/blackish Centre Zone (of about 8 mm in physical sample on hand), transparent and not opaque but it is slightly or mildly grayish indicating a very small amount/level of large size/heavy density metallic wear particles.

A darkened aureole zone or perimeter ring encircling the Centre Zone is absent indicating absence of agglomeration phenomenon of combustion by-product particles within the used oil sample.

The Diffusion Zone is generally transparent and not opaque (in particular the outer half of Diffusion Zone) and the inner half is very mildly grayed indicating a very low level of light weight and low density combustion contaminants being spread out within the sample.

There is total absence of darkened or brownish zig-zag edges surrounding the Diffusion Zone indicating there is no signs of cautionary oil oxidation (not saying there is NO oil oxidation phenomenon in this 10k km used oil sample) and water moisture content in this 10k km used oil sample.

Translucent halo surrounding the zigzag edge (absent, for now) and Diffusion Zone points to the absence of fuel dilution phenomenon, as is normally the case with Maibi engines.

Overall, this rojak mixed oil at 10k km is holding up very well and is still in continuing serviceable condition if one so desires.

This rojak or mixed engine oil seems to me to hold up well at 10k km usage, at typical oil change interval by our local OEMs.
So much for engine oil cannot be mixed, in real life at reasonabe oci imo.

This flushing out of stucked contaminants seems to be reflected in the 36 hr cold sample where a darkened (though slight) aureole zone/ perimeter ring can be observed, if one of two samples is at a lowly 4500 km.


Your after market air filter is working normally. From the blotter spot sample here, I don't think there is any abnormal, let alone severe metallic wear and your worry is unfounded imho.
Yes, the 'dark paper marks' are indications of light weight and low density carbon contaminants as a combustion by-products. I believe these contaminants are NOT metallic wear parts, which are supposedly of heavier weight and high density.

Thanks for the clarification. Just to avoid confusion, all the samples are running at 4500km and 3 months use. The 10k/6m was just ref against the normal change interval. I was asking around most ppl say if the 5w30 is correct rating then should be ok gua... I guess I was assuming Motul and Shell fully syn is more atas than Castrol, so net should be slightly more atas Castrol as a result kot.... sayang ehh after 4 change intervals will end up with about 3.6l of oil, enough for 1 oil round freee...

I got gan chiong when the rings appeared, then remembered I was chugging in carbon cleaner and 2 loads of injector then. I've been reading around but can't find a way to tell if my engine has been through more than normal wear or even the level of carbon buildup without going to open stuff up. Judging from online ref and the amount of leftovers after the first cleaning, it looks like I should still benefit from a 2nd run since I never did any of that throughout the engine's 10 yrs of life. Will prob do it just before my next oil change.

I'm also running a super scientific test with a fixed size double tape on the filtered side of the intake to compare stock vs oil filter. I just finished a week's run with the oil filter, and the tape is perfectly clean to the naked eye. The best part? The control tape on the pre-filter side is also perfectly clean LMAO. The only comfort prob lies in the fact that the inside part is still dust free as before as per the standardized "window finger technique" taught by asian mums.

This post has been edited by Dezs: Sep 12 2022, 09:17 AM

Oh sorry I wrongly assumed the blotter spot sample uploaded was at 10,000 km usage.
Anyway, the 'reading' generally applies.



Assuming all 3 brands above claims SN spec, then Shell Ultra 5W30 is top among 3 as it has additional MB 229.5 approval which is good for 30k km oil change interval (esp in Europe) in any gasoline MB cars purchased/produced yesterday.

The bottom among 3 is probably Castrol as this SN is likely without additional claims of ACEA A3B4/A5B5.

The Motul is likely in the middle as it probably has Additional ACEA spec (provided it is not SM spec).

Anyway, brands or base oils are not that important is assessing the quality of formulated engine oils. To me it is the part of meeting performance specifications like MB229.5/ VW504.507 or basic ACEA A3B4/A5B5 that is more relevant.

API SN is only a basic threshhold specification that almost ALL contemporary formulated engine oils in the market meet, and so is mediocre imho.

Note: I'm ignoring SP specs for now to avoid confusions when comparing oil qualities or its standard.



Agree with you that the slightly darkened perimeter ring aka aureole zone being observed at 4500km indicates signs of commencement of agglomeration of combustion byproducts in the used oil. This commencement of agglomeration is attributed to relatively substantial high amount of contaminants, which I believe is released from being stucked in say, piston ring grooves due to the use of carbon cleaner. I don't think the injector cleaner is of any help in dislodging the 'stucked' carbons from piston ring grooves other than cleaning up fuel injector for efficient spray pattern of fuels.




I thought you were talking about air filter only, but never mind.


This post has been edited by zeng: Sep 13 2022, 07:50 AM

Mobil 1 New Life 0W40 (Tesco) MB229.5
Oil Life : 9,940 km
7+ months oil life thus far .
ODO :341,788 km in
Car model: Toyota Avanza 1.3L

48 hour blotters,



Comments to follow, next week.

Ah yes... still on air filter (oil performance vs paper stock) - well that failed horribly when even the control tape could'nt pick up enough dust to be noticeably different than clean tape even up close.

Thanks a lot for breaking down the details. I'm aware from exp Castrol is the lowest amongst those 3 in the mix (cheapest ma lol), but its also the best value fully syn I can get +it begins death at ngam ngam at 10-12k km for my regular change. I usually drop in an additive like Ceratec (tried X1-R once but I guess I trust Ceratec more now - 1/2 botol per change) when using that and it brings up the smoothness and efficiency to par or better than premium EOs out of the bottle. Didn't use it this round cause chapalang mix, dunno later explode haha.

My Motul bottle (H-Tech 100 was the product name) had the best engine performance (Economy/fuel wise it was on par with Mobil1 0w-30 but this was long time ago and way above budget, so it was just a fun test) but lifespan was normal, at 12k km when I did the change, feel the "sibeh smooth" starting to fade. Shell Ultra had the best lifespan even tho it didn't feel as smooth as Motul (and on the km/l, still top tier tho), I kinda regretted changing it 11k because it looked just like a few months off new - your input make be beh song finding out it could go until 30k lol.

The most haram jadah fully syn I tried was Bosch X7, felt not much better than semi-syn, and seriously degraded into crap by 9k. It was dirt cheap, so that should explain.

After seeing the reviews of HX-8 I might give it a try +additives if it blends well. I don't mind spending RM150 per oil change as better oil truly smoothens the engine all round. My next EO to try in the pipeline is Molygen - seen a lot of reviews this thing is da shiznit, but since Mobil1 say don't use with Ceratec, current gap in use should clear out the engine a bit.

I'd start looking up the specifications going forward.

This post has been edited by Dezs: Sep 14 2022, 09:53 AM

The Centre Zone (of about 8 mm diameter) is slightly grayed but remains transparent and is not opaque, indicating a certain level of high density/heavy metal wear particles.

The aureole zone/perimeter ring (of about 10 mm diameter size) is not darkened indicating absence of agglomeration of combustion by-products in the blotter sample. It represents the usual capability of used oil to detergent/dispersed contaminants within the used oil sample.

At 9940 km usage, the Diffusion Zone is generally grayed and slightly darkened but not opaque indicating a certain level of light/low density combustion by-products/contaminants. Notice that the outer annulus of the Diffusion Zone remains clear and light coloured but not graying/darkish which appears to be ready to absorb additional amounts of oil contaminants.

Darkened zig-zag outer edge is obvious and clearly seen indicating presence of oil oxidation phenomenon and/or presence of moisture.

Translucent halo is absent on the outermost zone (encircling the zig-zag edge) indicating absence of fuel dilution phenomenon in this 9940 km blotter sample.

As usual, there is no indication of coolant contamination of used oil.

Overall I'm of the opinion this 9940 km used oil is still serviceable and is currently operating at 14,000 km or thereabout.

This post has been edited by zeng: Sep 24 2022, 06:15 PM