I didn't know marriage can be so expensive.

I only wanted a simple marriage but ended needing to expense for this and that. The in laws want it this way, my family want it another and my fiancée want it this way.

I try to save cost wanting a simple church and banquet but end up it becoming more complex for me. More complex for me is that I try to say it as tactful as I can to save cost, even justify to save money for future as my housing loan is coming up and I don't have a lot of disposable income left.

I think weddings are important but don't want to spend too much on it, as I more eager to invest into marriage than wedding as the wedding profits the photographers, bridal houses and restaurants.

Now I have another new conflict, the dowry. I have totally thought that it was not required afterall I am a Chinese. But now my future in laws are asking for dowry. It became a big issue and they appear not happy with me, because I was thinking of giving presents to them instead of money. This has caused tension between me and my gf.

Sigh, I am not good at communicating with people end up say things I don't mean. But I am finding it tough going to organize a wedding.

I think by the time the wedding is over, the money can buy a pesona. Bye bye $$$. If I don't spend one pesona my gf will be extremely mad at me. Sometime I wish I am born a woman, it so tough being a man.

This post has been edited by dangerminimouse: Oct 21 2016, 04:38 PM

This should have been discussed prior to even thinking about marriage. Common pitfall when the couple is not communicating well. As for the dowry, it is usually just a token with a nice figure. Understanding prospective in-laws who knows about your financial situation might even return the money after the ceremony is over.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 21 2016, 04:46 PM

I have discussed. I only wanted banquet. But my gf wanted church wedding.

And then she think I am brain reader can sense about dowry.

This post has been edited by dangerminimouse: Oct 21 2016, 04:45 PM

You must remember, whatever you plan is not necessary what in laws and your GF wanted. Some parents will have very high expectation as if they are selling their daughter. Be prepare.
More discussion is needed until both parties can come to an agreeable terms.

This post has been edited by YoungMan: Oct 21 2016, 04:47 PM

never heard of chinese no need pay dowry before.
anyway, you need to sort things out with your GF first. once you have reach a mutual agreement, then only you deal with the parents. both you and your GF, as a team.
else, you'll have a very hard path ahead. even jeopardize your marriage

Agreed. Usually if the gf is ok, then parents will also be ok, unless the parents very unreasonable and $$-eyed. But think of it this way, if you were in their shoes, will you let go of your daughter if you can't be prepared to fork out money for a once-in-a-lifetime event? Even if it is a persona...

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 21 2016, 04:49 PM

This.

This post has been edited by MeToo: Oct 21 2016, 04:49 PM

The parents came back from one of the weddings, they heard that in the wedding they received dowry, then they want me to give same dowry amount - market rate.

This post has been edited by dangerminimouse: Oct 21 2016, 04:54 PM

Time to look somewhere else. Just don't go borrow money for wedding, not worth.

Tell ur gf RMxxxxx that im willing to spend. Do a guideline and explain in detail to her. If she still don't get it, time to check if she is really the one.

Ask them need to compare the other grooms dick size with yours or not.

OK that is sign of trouble. Big trouble. See if you can have a talk with your gf on this issue and get her to side with you.

The trouble with my gf is that she is not a very firm person and she is afraid to speak out.

So I didn't know dowry need to be paid, I thought this only apply to indian and malay weddings. She brought up the dowry issue, then I discuss with her, to be a token, some gifts. It caused a rift between us.

She later said her parents wanted dowry in $$$.

How to discuss when she keeps coming up with new things? She doesn't want to confirm everything at the beginning.

easy for you to say.

Invitation card all send out.

You want me to cancel half way when I already paid the deposit for banquet?

Very embarrassing, I don't know how to face my office colleagues.

she is with her parents side.

how much dowry?

I pm you

Why not?? Rather regret whole life than lose face?

Learn from my mistake.

I want to save money for the marriage, ie, for the future after the wedding. My ex-in laws want big money and show off and my ex-wife wanted a show.

I tried to come to a common ground but no success. It was me against her and her family.

Not that I don't have the money but the 50-60k for the 'show' can really help me reduce my housing loan, have back up money after the wedding, live a more comfy life knowing I have back ups in my bank. After the 'show' I have 0 in my account for half a year and I never had that ever since I started working.

Tell your gf. It is either we do it in your budget, or not doing at all. Because of this issue, they became my ex. Well, this is one of the biggest issue which contributed to the break.

After the break, every now and then when I think back, I shouldn't have gone through this. Should have just given up. Find some one who understands you better, work with you as a team, which contributes to the bond as husband and wife. If things are broken before the marriage even started, no point going through the show.

Divorce is expensive man. Don't play play. I wished that some one told me this at that time, or I can travel back in time to slap myself silly to tell myself.

well she is not that bad.

She was wonderful until wedding all the conflict come in.

I look at it more about my 3 years of relationship.

Try talking with the parents, marriage are tough times for all races. Tougher for us as its our money going out.

But just try talking and try meeting up half way. do your best though, you do not want to strain your relationship with your in-laws. manyak leceh.

who say no need dowry for chinese....you sleeping kah?
no enough money...don't marry.

settle.

Don't know how to talk to them. They are talking through her.

That shows the lack of communication between the both of you.

No solid confirmation and yet want extravagant wedding.

Don't you have a budget before really comes into a conclusion?

Its really not about her parents but i think its about her lifestyle.

If card sent out already, now you just have to refinance your plan. Be a man and tell her NO.

QFT.

Its messier and much more difficult compared to "losing face" when cancelling a wedding...

You do know dowry is when the girl brings something into the guy's family right ?

Got friends who got married not pay dowry before mah.

Wah like that, next time when I got babies, I ask the doctor to change their sex to girls.

Raise boys really not worth while.

Haha. Man, they sounded just like my ex-wife and ex-inlaws. That is why they are ex now. Seriously. Marriage is no play. Call it off if you are not sure if this is the one. Like really. I am not joking, not trolling. Loosing face now is nothing. The suffering you take in after the wedding in terms of emotional torture is beyond words. Especially when your gf is siding her parents. She is not even on your side, not thinking for you, not on your team. Good luck.

I think the only way is to cancel the banquet then save cost.

Just go over to their house and meet. Good Luck Bro.

marriage itself is not expensive, parents often make it expensive and complicated

That's what I want to point out. Think again if she is the ONE.

Wow, I only had to pay 8k dowry.

For once in your GF's life, she has to be firm. Both of you agree on a figure, let her work on her parents, then you come in, discuss, and agree.

For weddings, normally the angpow will cover, as long as your table is NOT RM2k++ per table. Find a reasonable table cost of about 1k/table. As long as it's KL, you should break even.

P.S. The reason I mentioned KL is because I've heard of really low low angpows in Penang, JB, and elsewhere.

Per table is RM 1.4k

So you think will cover?

Its not in KL, its in PJ.

Then do like what some suggest lor. Put all the cards out and both of you come to a compromise. If now also cannot compromise, then further down the line sure alot of trouble one. This come from old uncle like me. Seen so many times liao with friends.

Sit down with your gf, talk things thru, tell her ur maximum budget is RMXXXXX. Explain to her, that is ur budget, because u are saving for the future. Tell her the future between u and her is more important. Look at the priorities in the wedding, and go for those that is really needed. Cut on those that both of u think can cut out.

Both side have to give way, both side have to understand from opposite's pov. That's why u need to have a round table talk with your gf. If she can understand u, she is the one. If she can't, and insist wan high cost and all, i'm sorry. Seems like she is not really understanding.

If u can make her on ur side, i believe ur gf can settle ur in law's side.

Good luck bro, wedding is actually easy, just sign the paper. It's both side's parent that is troublesome, want this want that, want to brag.

I really hope i can do travel wedding next time.

DOnt have a wedding dinner if u expect your guest to cover your cost.

When I have my wedding dinner, I'm prepared to fork out the money and will be fine even if no one give any ang pao.

I am always a firm believer that marriage is what makes 2 families go together in the future. You start good, that is a good start. If you tell the groom you need 88,888 as dowry because it is a good omen/ sign/ ong figure which will bring the couple good luck, I call that bullshit if the groom cannot afford. You broke the marriage before it even started.

But usually you can get back $$ from the banquet angpaus, based on typical Chinese weddings lah, if you know how to manage and who to invite or not to invite..lol. The other stuff which is purely all out not in are the photos, videos, dress, dai gam jeh, pre-wedding night makan, and other stuff.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Oct 21 2016, 05:10 PM

If dont want ppl to cover your cost. then dont collect ang pow lo..
my fren did 135 tables .. no collect angpow from anyone ..

that your friends.....by tradiotional...dowry is from bridegroom to bride
unless you Indian where reverse happen or UK also.

lol, what make u think so?

sign of trouble if you ask me.

you need to rethink your position and consider postponing your wedding to save up more $$ if the other party insist on this and that.

If the gf understands and stand on TS' side after the discussion, I will buy him nasi lemak ayam rempah + sambal sotong + petai + telur goreng + ikan bilis lebih.

My gut feeling is that she will not understand at all and tell TS that it is a once a life thing and TS should do it for her. And I bet another set of the nasi lemak above that TS will give in. Just like me. I hope that he is not.

aiyoh, don't liddat lah. different financial background mah.

he shud just be prepared ang pau very liddle and have to subsidise a lot lor. Bottom line, don't factor in ang pau but still collect.

For Chinese, groom side gives to bride side. For Indians, it's the bride's family giving the dowry to the groom side.

Few question:

How much time between now and your banquet?

Have both your parents met yet?

Normally dowry is discussed when parents from both side met.

Definitely need to sit down and "negotiate" face to face.

My own story for case study:
Initially also faced similar problem as TS, parents-in-law fickle minded on the dowry, each time they attend 1 marriage, the amount changed.

So I make used of the day where u suppose to send the "gift" to wife house (Normally 1 month before actual day), set the same day as dish sampling with restaurant, parents and in-law meet face to face in restaurant, THEN the negotiation begin.

My mom is a smooth talker, nego from pure $$ dowry to gold jewelries (comes in set of 3) + 10 sponsored banquet table (meaning I pay for the table but ang pow kept by in-law) + "small" angpow.

When it comes to actual day banquet, somehow i manage to break even, despite sponsoring 10 tables, problem solve.

PS: My table cost is RM800

PSS: My mom talked so smooooth that at some point she did hint that if in-law set too high that I can't afford, might as well call it off, see who is more worried, the son or the daughter

PSSS: Is your GF christian? Not sure if she is aware how boring an actual church wedding can be as I've been through as Catholic myself.

This post has been edited by scchan107: Oct 21 2016, 05:26 PM

He will give in. I will top up nasi lemak too.

Sorry to hear your got yourself into this sticky situation.


yes, many people now have done away with dowry, or even hugh dinners to "show off".




Try to make time and talk with the would be in-laws. You have financial plans such as shortening your housing loan and preparing to start a family (trust me, kids are expensive), and you want to limit spending for future.

If the in laws can see you are sound in the head, they might probably let this slip. Better to marry their daughter to a man that can think than someone that goes out in a big bang and nothing else later.



I limited my expenditure by booking an exclusive higher end restaurant that can only seat 100. Yes, the pax is costly, but waaaaaaaaaaay less than 50 tables they usually expect. They also allowed us to use their premise for the day so we did the "garden wedding" with the Pastor and limited guest of close friends and family...so no Church wedding.


That said, you need to be careful if the in laws don't see it this way, which is why it is good to talk to them in person, so you can get a feel for them as they would with you. It could spell trouble especially if your would be wife is the timid sort and will side with her parents...it would be an untold nightmare for you.

Goodluck anyway.

I think you already know that your simple marriage ceremony and the thought of saving money of yours are not going to work then.

I've been there and done that. I suggest that you have your wedding ceremony to be split to your side and her side.

Meaning to say, you are having two separate wedding ceremony. For your side, any red packets received, you are entitled for it. While for your wife side, any red packets, they entitled them.

A common combined ceremony tends to cause up-stir like not enough tables, food not nice and etc. It's best for them to choose what they like rather than being blamed for all sort of nonsense.

The dowry, I advise you to go straight and talk nicely to your parents in law and apologised for whatever you have said that hurt them. Most importantly, ask them what's the amount. When they gave you an amount, you gave them terms.

From what I've experienced by myself and my friends from different dialects, Hakka, Cantonese, Hokkien, Teo Chew and Hainan, you are the man who will be in charge of the family and any payment will comes with a term if they insist of following dowry, customs and etc. A simple term after offering them a dowry will be, you subject the rules whereby there will be no way for your wife or their daughter to go back home to stay because the dowry as from chinese custom is like "pouring water away" and if she goes back, it means the marriage is over and they will need to pay you back due to fail marriage.

The above custom can go on and on and be rough too. But on your condition, I suggest you to pay and ask clearly any other customs like whole roast pig or cut roast pig because this is another tedious stuff.

Marriage is mutual respect and understanding but sometimes, too many cooks spoilt the soup.

It's not tough being a man, it's only tough not to being firm on your decision and sometimes, play around with the rules without offending your parents in law.

Of course, another thing you need to take into consideration is your parents in law relatives' customs. You will more or less need your parents in law to ask all their relatives regarding anything for the preparation which is missing. You wouldn't want last minute confrontation whereby they state that how come roast pig is a small young pig which refer to virgin, innocent and clear of any sins but rather a big enough pig?

There is a lot more jokes which will definitely boil your blood when they appear out of nowhere especially with our chinese customs.

My gf colleague joked to her that she was coming to her wedding and only want to give RM 60. I immediately tell my gf not to invite this colleague.

Its a bit strange to have separate wedding when both of us are from PJ area.

I was firm, until the argument went so bad, that my gf wanted to walk out of the wedding. Ok?

Then I managed to persuade her back into the fold.

They not see it this way lah.

For them, if I say I want to save money for baby for my house, they think I cannot take care of their daughter if I want to cut here and there for the dowry and the wedding.

For them the ability to afford the wedding and dowry is to show I got the ability to take care of her.

Yes she is the timid side and she very listen to her mum. She listen to two person in her life- me and her mum. But when it comes to her mum, I lose flat.

Isn't that a good news? Clearly she knew nothing about future, compromise and the importance of having a man who plans and lay down good foundation for the actual marriage and not a show. Time to look for one who knows how to do that. When you think that you can't find a better one, you are wrong. There is always a better one out there if the one you have currently acts like your gf.

She is very staunch evangelical. She really want the church wedding lah. I headache lah, have to buy flowers and deco for the church. Jee Whiz, my gf think I am ATM. If I want to save money, she say I am not prepared to marry because wedding also I cannot afford.

Well try to smooth talk to her parents lah. They are willing to walk out of the wedding if they have to. My gf has threaten to walk out if I don't pay the dowry.

Yeah I wanted to give gold jewelleries but they refused.

I think this is beyond money and financial. Not that you cant afford. You are not willing to. When you are not willing, there is no point doing. I am saying this from my experience.

There is a saying of "Do not look down at a poor young man who is willing to work". If the parents can't see the potential in you, you GG. Nothing is going to come out good after the "wedding".

I guess my approach to your response might have enraged you. If I do, I sincerely would like to say I meant no harm.

Everyone has their own different way of dealing it and I guess handling it gracefully is important for the whole big thing of yours.

I hope you have a pleasant and happy wedding ahead.

Dowry confirm have to give but amount can nego mar. You are the one that is wrong if u think this is optional. The thing is you and ur gf have to come with agreement first regarding the amount. If is an amount she agree then she have to stand firm in front of her parent, after all marriage is between u 2 and those money are meant u both future use.

Do face this together and not pushing her alone to nego with her parents because clearly is not working else u wont need to start this topic. Better come out an agreement with ur gf then arrange face to face discussion with her parent together. But u have to be very calm and not strain the relationship, present your point why u can only pay this much dowry and listen to their point. In the end if u still cant agree on the amount, dont say straight NO. Just say u need time to consider.

Anyway u are partly at fault, how can u miss the detail on the dowry part and church wedding ? This should all have been settle before invitation is sent out or paying any deposit. So now is mainly nego down the dowry amount, unless her parent given a "heaven price" that is unreasonable then just cancel the wedding. Both side will lose face. But u can always make up excuse like important family member pass away so have to postpone etc.

My advice, if after the face to face and all this drama u still think ur gf is the ONE u want to married. Then just try nego down a bit and paid the dowry amount they want. Is not worth argue for a few thousand and be labeled cheapskate or cause strain to the relationship in her family for the rest of your life. Give her the church wedding too, just remember you paying for the future 40 years happiness of your life, u dont want to marry an angry wife and miserable for the rest of your life.

This post has been edited by chitchat: Oct 21 2016, 05:57 PM

I had to pay a symbolic dowry of rm888, my father in law gave it back as angpow. But honestly i have not heard of any of my chinese friends having to pay a dowry.

you are right, keep it as cheap as possible, in 6 months, no one will remember the wedding/dinner/ceremony....but the debt is still there.

Be responsible and firm...say you arnt a rich man...and you are being prudent and responsible, promise them that one day, when you are in better position financially, then you can provide a decent dowry

No la it did not enrage me la, don't get me wrong.

I am grateful for your advice. Just that I don't think its practical. Sure my mum may master nego with them, but if they agree with jewellery, at the end they still not happy in their heart and they will express it to their daughter, you see.

Don't you think she is NOT ready at all to be your wife who will walk with you till the end of your life? At this stage of relationship, she should be understanding you, plan WITH you, TAG team you, go through SHIT with you. Looks like you are in this alone. As in YOU AGAINST THE COLONY.

+1

wahh from Church and still can threaten to walk out because of dowry issue by parents? cannot nego one ah? if lidat better think twice if she is for you
other half shouldn't simply say walk out of life commitment one leh.. if like that prepare to be shackled dy...

Erm, I would not want an important member of my family to pass away just so that I can escape the wedding.

Can nego lah, but if nego too low, the parents will be unhappy. She agree with the mum la, what to do? Everything her mum say she listen one.

Its not a few thousand, I will pm you the amount.

pity u TS.
ive been married for sometime now.
and after a couple years of marriage only my wife realize the money that she had spend on the wedding is not worthwhile at all its just money down the drain for nothing actually.

its hard to put some sense into a lady into when she went into this
"wedding zone"they somehow have gone into some sort of fairytale hollywood movies kinda zone.just try to talk to her on what is important and that is the LIFE after marriage.no point a couples of days event and suffer after that.
i think a cheap and classy wedding can be achieve if both parties can compromise.

and BTW seriously if this takes its toll on your relationship and ended your guys have to split due to this differences believe me its better for your life in the long run.you dont want to get married with someone who only sees it their way.

a lady needs to be lead and love. and perhaps now its time to start practicing your leadership skills and take charge of this situation. if your words were always emotional and confrontational plan your talks before you speak and weight the consequences of each decision.

anyway hope it`ll all ends well with a nice and lovely wedding to both of you.

On this dowry portion, don't get it wrong.

Jewellery is "part" of the dowry. The money is another "part" of the dowry and there can never be the same or equal when their ask for dowry.

The jewellery is for their daughter, the dowry in money form is to thank her parents whom has bring, teach and having her to be your beloved wife.

Trust me. Negotiating this will only anger them more no matter what.

If I'm your fren I wont even go to your wedding with this kinda attitude.

Yeah Wedding Zone, what a genius terminology.

I think she is into that.

Trouble is she is much younger than me, and she has that little girl in the wedding zone mentality. Just because I earn 3 times more than her, doesn't mean my money is unlimited, I trying to tell her that. but made her cry that day. So somehow I managed to make her happy again with my leadership and thum thum skills

Whatever.

You are the man la. I wish you all the happiness.

my best fren broke off the wedding over this issue. hotel already booked, deposit paid.

he couldnt make the girl understand that ...yes...he made more money than her, it doesnt mean she didnt have to contribute to the relationship/wedding. He wanted her to contribute 20/80....he could not make her understand that marriage is a PARTNERSHIP...both work together...not husband take care of wife 100%

OP...trust me..if you cant settle this money issue now...it will get worse.

My best pal now happily married to a consultant who makes alot more and doesnt expect him to settle everything.

This post has been edited by jwrx: Oct 21 2016, 06:22 PM

woah hotel expensive. He must have wanted like 50 tables?

See how first lah, if they are requesting gazillions then I got to do something serious about it.

I have a limit threshold.

But if they wanted 20/80, he should have just settled for a smaller wedding.

TS another idiot hoping to REAP reward on getting BIG return in angpow
So what if people want to gibe RM60....you should accept with open mind.

Now tell me again why no need dowry?

its not about settling for a smaller wedding...no matter what size, the expectation is that both parties contribute as per thier abilities. 1 partner earns more, then he contributes more.

hahaha why not? I only invite very close close friends.

If I wanted to invite people give RM 60, I would be having 50 table wedding.

It is the right how much they wanna give but same time its also my right whom I wanna invite.

since you pointed out your right...
isn't bride parent have the right to dowry deem suitable to them as well?

We have to be fair to the parents too, very true.. It's a willing buyer willing seller market

Make her stomach big
Then you're at the winning side

Well, if you are okay

I got a few friends have cheaper wedding cost due to this 'accident'

What makes me ponder is..
Are you selling away your daughter?
What kind of ridiculous demands from this culture.

If my gf's parents are too demanding.
I'll ask them the same thing..

Not only that, if you ask so much, rest assured my wife will not come back to visit you since you had 'sold' your daughter away to me.

That's why got this forum to discuss how to negotiate lor

besides RM 60 is an ancient rate. Where got one table these days cost less than 600?

My one cost 1200 - 1400 one table ya know?

This post has been edited by dangerminimouse: Oct 21 2016, 06:56 PM

I see it the same way you do too.

But some parents when they hear other news that other parents getting the dowry, then they go and demand from the poor future son in law.

Just be ready my friend. You will never know, your gf parents is ok for now. But when wedding come, suddenly some kepo uncle or auntie of your gf will come and influence them to impose dowry.

Then again, when you have daughter next time and marry her off, would you think the same way too?

that what i am trying to say...
we don;t know whether the dowry demand by parent is ridiculous or downright low, right?
should be reasonable dowry...right?

the way i see....TS have no problem NOT inviting those close close friend who can afford to pay angpow rm60
BUT have problem meeting dowry demand which TS "deem" too high or outright ridiculuos.

So..tell me what will be the reasonable dowry?


This post has been edited by MakNok: Oct 21 2016, 07:03 PM

hey TS,
i just attend a wedding last month which cost RM1800 per table.

So..since yours is 1.2k or 1.4k per table..
So what is your minimum angpow to give then?

Rm60...RM80...Rm100.....tell me what is your expectation then?

I don't tell them how much to give lah.

But understandable, if some joker go and say will come and give RM 60, I straight away won't consider.

This kind of person is coming for free dinner. Its too much, you can't treat your friend like that. Even RM 100 is reasonable.

This good idea

Reduce your alcohol volume, my bro did 50 table and gain about RM10k in profit but haven't include alcohol part.

Kesian you TS, no MONEY no marriage
You failed to create relationship with your GF parents.

Imagine you have raised daughter for over 20 years and suddenly wanted to married to
unknown guy. Guess what? Do the daughter or you as son in law will support the
parents financially?

Dowry is normal in Chinese culture, however the one who ask or give must be based of financial capability. But you are expecting they let go of the daughter without gaining anything?

Again you are emphasizing on "gain" and as you know someone jokingly going to give your wedding angpow rm60...then it is NO GO invitation for them.

I ask you them..what about your relatives or close close friend who are not well off and can only give rm80 max or lower.

So you will be so call scrutiny your list of close close friends...relatives which are not well off and deem can't afford to meet your expectations of minimum rm100 angpow...NO invitations for them also.

Your right as you call it.
So what wrong of bride parents asking for a reasonable dowry which deem expectations of them....???

Ask TS to pinjam ur mum to act as an aunty and nego on his behalf

+1


TS are you an accountant?

how much is the dowry? more than RM50k?

We have failed to ask TS this question

Doesn't sound like you or your gf are ready for marriage as both of you have different understanding and expectations about it.

Also being chinese, dont tell me you have never heard of bride price? Did you do any research about chinese weddings at all?