V1 Link

Since legstrong, the initial TS is MIA, and there's no one else opening up a V2 for this, hope that my little efforts will do good in the continuity of the only official medical students thread in LYN

"Know who"-compiled by culexbite ...THANKS!



Please feel free to PM me if there's anything in the list to be edited or added

Recognition Lists

Malaysia - MMC Second Schedule, PSD/JPA

Singapore - SMC - The Schedule

This post has been edited by chika138: Apr 6 2012, 07:46 PM

v2!!!! k it's a spam lol

welcome to "the-first-to-post"
eh i just found out ur name not in the list
want me to add in?

---

Added on August 31, 2009, 3:45 pmA question
Those medical schools who are not in the following MMC recognition list
http://mmc.gov.my/v1/docs/Jadual%20Kedua.pdf

Even if the schools are in UK, are the students from those respective med schools required to take the medical qualifying exam, just like the others, in order to get registered with MMC here?
Eg Imperial College London, which needs no further introduction here. It's not in the Second Schedule, yet it was formerly a constituent college of the University of London, so is it recognized?
not to disregard medical schools from other countries though...

This post has been edited by chika138: Aug 31 2009, 04:00 PM

4th year medstudent from UM reporting in~
Hi, I've always been reading the V1 although I rarely post here...

welcome seiken
name added in the list

good question lol, i personally dont know =P but i'm pretty sure imperial would be recognised by the MMC.

u can put me to IMU if u want =P

hahaha interesting thread. been reading the v1 thread here and there
btw, i'm from imu, 4th sem

to those who think their discussions are discontinued, u can always carry on those previous topics from V1 in here

haha btw way way too many IMU students in the list compared to others

This post has been edited by chika138: Sep 2 2009, 12:35 AM

Only 1 AIMSTers here? Anyways, just finished CNS's CA. It's a tough paper! Damn neurology!

woah,v2 already...nice 2 meet y'all...goin 2 monash nex year for my mbbs...hhehe...

monash msia or clayton?

imu students have too much free time

I have 12 hours this week. Beat that.

heheh...ermmm...i'm goin into monash malaysia....

1st year UCSI student =)

oh thought one love was going to IMU

second that! imu students have too much free time! its true!!

Nah didn't make it cos they didn't recognize my foundation program. =( its ok.

wat was ur foundation program by the way, if u dun mind...hehe

Time for a break... lets make this interesting, here are somethings for you guys to analyze:

Q1: Comment on the ECG below.



Q2: What is that I'm doing below? and what might the problem be?



Q3: What has been done to the patient below? Name the procedure and common indications for the procedure.



Q4: What the hell is that?


This post has been edited by CyberSetan: Sep 4 2009, 12:57 AM

onelove went to trinity foundation in melbourne, i remember 2 years ago, in his naivety, he was very sure he was going to do medicine at u melb.....

actually imu recognises trinity foundation, but they have a marking system different from the year12 ter system, and imu deem his results inadequate for entry......

this highlights a problem i have always warned potential foundation students......other unis may not recognise (or may not give as much weightage to) other foundation programmes.......it is still best to do generic pre-u programmes, like a-levels, sam/ausmat, ib, even stpm........and i now conclude that unless you are very sure you want to go to oz, a-levels is the best pre-u programme, gets you into all the commonwealth countries.........

Actually, I think he did his foundation last year, which means that going to trinity wouldn't make sense (melbourne model)

This post has been edited by zltan: Sep 4 2009, 11:30 AM

my bad, yes you are right, i think i confused him with you!

i believe onelove did an fy in Perth.......was it canning?....

the point about using fy to get into critical courses like medicine stands......

To cybersetan:

lai let me guess

1. sinus rhythm with monofocal premature ventricular contraction gua..
2. woohoo it looks cool but i dont know whats that it's glowing haha
3. it looks like an amputation. er... above MTP amputation? indication is gangrenous toe/patient's sick!
4. placenta

This post has been edited by cygoh9: Sep 4 2009, 01:46 PM

sorry i din see the posts till now =/ I was taking FY in Taylors College in Perth. This FY is specifically for UWA so it's not the more general and widely accepted FY offered by Canning College. Some differences by the FY offered by my college, and the FY in Canning. Made a wrong move back then, but oh well, can't do anything bout it, so mind as well just move on. =)

2nd year student from alexandria university here.

ive been wondering, what is attachment exactly?
how do u, apply, for one, if its sumkind of extra class?
what document should i need for one?
any other related info is so much appreciated, thanks.

ECG is ST depression right seen in stable angina?

2 never come acrossed it

3, gangre of the foot had to be amputated

4......

sad... my cvs facts have all gone out the window
1. mild MI?
2. no idea what's the procedure's name but i think it's to see if the growth is liquid filled or a mass? just guessing here. looks like it's some cystic growth on the head. ahahahaha
3. amputation of the feet, just below the toes? no idea what's the proper name. common indications would be gangrenous toes or massive ulceration of the toes (diabetes?)
4. placenta

12 hours of lectures? i only had to spend 10 hours in uni this week for lectures, pbls and clinical sessions. not that i'm ecstatic about my free time.. seems like a waste that we're paying so much but getting so little in return.

Actually 6 hours of lectures, 4 hours PBL and 2 hours ICM

Welcome to medical school... where they teach you virtually nothing despite paying the highest fees. You're supposed to learn stuff on your own, and by that I mean stumble and crash your way through the hospital and getting into other people's ways during clinical years, not just mug through tons of books.

Those were the days...
Got free time then cabut to Baretto's lol...

as for the questions that cybersetan posted...
1. ventricular ectopic beats
2. dunno.... my first thought would be scalp lipoma but they aren't exactly transilluminable eh?
3. metatarsal-phalangeal amputation of foot due to gangerene... an endocrine consultant once told me that he prefered a full Symes as it's easier to fit a prosthetic foot... MTP renders the foot useless for weight bearing and impedes prothesis fitting later on.
4. placenta... too easy the placenta is probably one of the ugliest yuckiest organs you'll ever see

This post has been edited by StarGhazzer: Sep 6 2009, 03:41 PM

good news my friends

Internships edge foreign doctors out

some revamp of the housejobs will be done.......while number of places in med schools have increased 50%, the number of housejobs have not increased correspondingly.......this knock-on effect will be most felt in 2012 when several new med schools churns out their new graduates.......therefore within the next few years, this will be adjusted accordingly.......

if the numbers fail to match the graduating numbers, this will not be the first time australia turned away foreign aussie trained doctors.......this happened in the early 90's when oz was in a recession......all foreigners had to leave......

hahaha... just spent 2 weeks getting in people's way during my electives. and i'll be doing more of that in the near future

Hardly surprising news as this was always a matter of "when" and not "if", no thanks to all the new and upcoming medical universities like Bond, Deakin etc. These additional number of graduates will saturate the allocation spots for interns, yet Australia still requires many more personnel particularly in sub-urban and rural areas - hence they are still spending money recruiting IMGs as mentioned below:


The excuse of lacking funds and resources for training is somewhat dodgy and will spark further debates, especially since international students pay 5-10 times more. Then again, these funds are mainly paid to universities rather than directly channeled into hospitals and medical institutions so the latter may actually lack the capacity to accommodate the rising number of students and graduates.

Victoria is still comparatively easy to get an internship position compared to other states, as most of us are able to be matched in the first round offers whereas students in other states usually have to wait for 2nd or even 3rd, 4rd rounds for fight for scraps. Having said that, most of my friends from other states still managed to secure a position after the 2nd round. I guess it's a trade-off - Vic's pay is the least !!

Yes, I have to agree the punch would be felt most in QLD, WA and NSW.

Vic has only 1 additional med school (Deakin) compared to other states

http://www.health.vic.gov.au/workforce/?a=305847

They are planning to increase funding for medical internship places (456 in 2008 to 690 in 2012) to accommodate the growth of medical students.

This does not include the plans to incorporate private hospitals and GPs to accept interns.

That being said, I still have my doubts as to the possibility of me getting an internship place in 2014.
I'm just hoping that:
(a) They would rather pick Melb Uni grads over the rest
(b) Internship places would have increased even more by 2014
© A miracle happens and I get a PR

Where you'll be working or where you are working now?

this is alarming actually, thought australia really needs doctors. hmm too late to become a dentist now haha

yeah hope the places pick up even more by 2014, i grad same time as you right zltan (2013)?

go marry a local and get your citizenship!!

everyone here is looking to practice oversea?

nobody pays rm700+k in fees so they can come back to work for rm3k/mth...........unless they have no choice........

true
at least come back only after completing specialization
that's what in my plan

as a jpa scholar, you will, and should return to serve your bond on graduation........otherwise don't take the scholarship you can't commit to the bond.......

A is probably out of the question Melb uni students generally don't get preference over Monash, although some hospital schools are famous (or notorious) for selecting their own clinical school students. I ain't gonna open a can of worms, you would know which ones when the time comes.
B is quite likely, although I won't be too optimistic about the number of available positions. After all, you can't expect hospitals to double the number of intern positions as the hospital budgets won't be able to support all the pay.
C... why not lol. Become a Victorian resident (Group 1 match) and you'll be guaranteed a job, somewhere, somehow.

Of course, there are still a number of unfortunate international students for god knows what reason fail to obtain a spot even after 2nd round or subsequent late offers. But generally speaking, as long as you're not too picky + not too unlucky you'll get somewhere in Vic. The question is whether you want to accept it or not.

Tell that to the JPA scholars... There are simply too many scholars who actually applied and got a job, and la and behold, they're staying back probably by choosing to pay back the amount of money JPA spent on them. Then again, no one truly knows what the contract holds, even the JPA scholars themselves (or maybe they are just keeping quiet and not letting us know).

MARA is even more absurd as the amount they are required to pay back should they choose to break the bond is merely peanuts.

This post has been edited by StarGhazzer: Sep 7 2009, 09:28 PM

i will come back and serve my bond fully for sure, even if i can afford to pay them back by that time
it's just that i'm wondering whether i could have the opportunity to complete my specialization
if no, then fine, i'm fine and more than willing to serve my bond straight away on graduation
i have heard of few cases that JPA do allow some medical graduates to stay on now and then, of course with certain conditions
not too sure with the details though

ooo.. so many people graduating in 2013?
if everything goes well, i should be graduating at the end of 2013 too

and yes, it's also my plan to at least become a specialist before i come back here.


This post has been edited by monkeygirl: Sep 7 2009, 11:35 PM

many jpa and mara scholars default on their bonds.......both bodies, being typical of msian efficiency, are very lax in tracing these defaulters and imposing the penalty.......so most got away with it........the country spent rm1 million of my tax money, and got nothing in return.........

my point is not from the legal aspect.......but the moral and ethics aspect......

and no, the scholarship does NOT come with the provision of staying on to do postgraduate.......

From what I know at the moment, JPA does not cover postgraduate training as one would be required to work as an intern after graduation, i.e. not studying anymore. Therefore the scholar has to return and serve his/her contract unless he/she manages to break the bond by paying back the full amount (normally the case) or sendiri cabut (less likely as their penjamin/parents are still in M'sia).

As for those who manage to stay back for postgrad training under JPA, well I don't think anyone really knows what the 'certain conditions' are unless you're the scholar him/herself. Like I said, most of my JPA friends don't really know the full details of their contract plus the conditions may change over time.

in the past the penalty of default was a ridiculously small fixed sum, something like rm100k........so when the jpa scholarship was opened to non-malays in the late 90's, many took it and just pay the bond at the end.......

current penalty is the full sum spent on the student plus interests.......but i know of several scholars who defaulted and up to 2-3 years after, no action was taken by jpa.........

in spite of clear instructions given to scholars just before they graduate, that they have to return, some people appealed, and were given exemption, to stay back and attempt post-graduate......so the jpa itself is at fault for being inconsistent in its actions........

In Australia, you need to be Australian PR or Citizen to get into any specialty training. Where are you planning to go during your PMS stint?

once you are working in oz, applying and getting a pr is likely, so that is usually not an issue.......

however, many med students thinks it is easy to just continue and get postgraduate training......in oz, training and eligibility to sit for postgraduate exams is tightly controlled by the respective speciality colleges, and it is VERY highly competitive trying to get into a training post.......and seniority plays no part in this.......once you fail to get in, you reapply and goes back into the pool together with all your upcoming juniors........

in this respect, the uk colleges are easier, as they are more open to people sitting for the exams.......for the medical colleges that is......but unfortunately they are as strict for the surgical colleges' fellowships exams (they are lax for the mrcs, but that is NOT recognised by msia).......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Sep 8 2009, 10:28 AM

don't worry i've never ever thought of defaulting
to me what jpa and the ppl want are not the full amount of the money back but something in return after investing
so i for sure will come back to serve

btw afaik mara scholarship is more like a loan than scholarship? they have actually no bond to serve but need to return their money, and the amount depending on how good their results are? correct me if i'm wrong

This post has been edited by chika138: Sep 8 2009, 10:47 AM

i've known personally that mara scholars need to pay only 1 percent of what government spent on them, which is er.. if it's 1 mil, it'll be 10k. 2 words aye: double standard.

So StarGhazzer. Are you working in Victoria now? Anyone else working in Vic?

That's true.Some of them don't even need to pay back the government.

ya that's what i heard from some mara scholars
for some other courses u need to get very distinctive results (like first class degree) only can get 100% scholarship (no need to pay back a single cent)
for medic u just need to pass and graduate, then no need to pay back, no bond
if it's true i dun see any point and benefit giving the scholarship to them
again i might be wrong for my info, need someone to clarify if i'm wrong

Not yet, but going to, if everything goes well

The 1% Mara thingy, that's what I've heard as well. Sounds really unfair, especially since that puny amount can be repaid in a glimpse of an eye if you're working overseas. Oh bugger... M'sia boleh, apa pun boleh.

I'm not quite sure about this. The RACP website doesn't specify that you need a PR or citizenship to enroll in their training programme... To put it in a harsh manner, if you've finished your PGY1, and is good enough and pay them $$ they'll take you. Most people start training in PGY3 although there's a fair share of people who started certain training programmes in PGY2.

Not quite sure about RACS and other colleges but I think it shouldn't be that much different.

This post has been edited by StarGhazzer: Sep 8 2009, 08:26 PM

i doubt if there are any internationals working in oz past fgy1 who are not pr's.......your bridging visa runs out in 18 months.....the limiting factor is not getting the jobs, but the visa to stay and work......

some will use employer sponsored visas to stay on, but that means working in remote areas, and you will not be in contention for training jobs for that period.....but most will just apply for a pr.......

yes there is such a policy, unofficially......

there is also such policy in uk, where pmetb ruled that img cannot take numbered jobs......however, foreigners graduating from uk med schools are considered home graduates.......

You don't need to be PR to go into physician training. 457 (Temporay Business) visa allow you to stay for maximum period of 4 years which can be reapplied with the same employer once it expires. However, if someone change to another health service/employer with 457, it need to be reapplied with your new employer as sponsor. 457 only allow someone to work with 1 employer.

SET training specify you must be an Australian citizen/PR to apply.

---

Added on September 8, 2009, 8:59 pmAny btw I am PGY2 now and was lazy to apply PR so I am not PR yet. However, applying now cos I will be working with 2 employer next year and will be applying surgical training in the future.

This post has been edited by dunaskwhy: Sep 8 2009, 08:59 PM

i'm still thinking of aus or uk. haven't decided.

i know the SET training in aus requires you to get a pr. and i think it's always best to get a pr as early as possible. i know some applications can take months (esp in victoria) and a lot of headache. i heard its easier to get pr status in other states
and SET application is really tough i heard. very competitive
not quite sure about their physician training though.

as for uk, i think it's even harder for us international students to get into a specialty training there right? unless your work is really outstanding

Starghazzer, so come 2012, people like zltan and hopefully me who wants to continue on to workin in australia , if i manage to get a pr i'd hopefully get my job there right? and unlike uk where they just boot any non eu student after FY-2 ? with all the new universities coming up they dont really need foreign doctors!!

yeah the PR can take months at a time, my non medical friends there had to work odd jobs for a while to sustain their living while waiting to get their pr before applying into their respective fields.

Don't know... Things may change over time, but generally speaking if you're not a PR (ie in Group 2) you'll stand a lesser chance due to the quota.

I'm not too familiar with PR issues - some people tend to require quite a lot of time for it, some manage to get it even during their student time although the latter might be due to sponsorship from family members... not sure.

This post has been edited by StarGhazzer: Sep 10 2009, 09:29 PM

there is no way one can get enough points as a student for a pr, so it is always a family thing, usually the students parent(s) being eligible and obtaining a pr half way through the course........as a dependent, the student also become a pr........

deleted!

This post has been edited by MBBS siang: Sep 12 2009, 01:21 PM

brother, i think u need to read the whole physiology of how beta cell detect glucose for that.

My confusion is not how the mechanism work. That thing I know.ok la....like this!

This is about the blood glucose regulation mechanism.Below is my problems.

The correction to hyperglycemia is due to the intensity of stimulus.
When there is something wrong to the mechanism the stimulus will persist and of course the symptom like polydipsia will persist and these are due to the frequency of stimulus.

This is what I think,I am not sure whether the statement above is correct or not.So,please give me some idea about this.

Another thing that I confuse here is the symptom that persist is due to intensity or frequency?Example,the diabetes patient will keep on feeling thirsty is because the frequency of stimulus or intensity?

This post has been edited by MBBS siang: Sep 12 2009, 03:57 PM

I actually had to reread that a couple of times and I still do not understand what you are going on about. May I suggest that you take up a remedial English class?

SORRY! This is about the blood glucose regulation mechanism.I change the sentence already.Do you feel better now?I'm so sorry for create this problem here.
I will try to write the sentence properly next time. I know my stupid english is terrible,if any mistake I did please correct me.

I hope I can learn how to use proper english from daily life and here.

This post has been edited by MBBS siang: Sep 12 2009, 03:53 PM

mbbs, where are you studying again?.......

if this is what they are teaching, i worry.....both at the things they are teaching, and you obsession with obscure facts of no clinical relevance........

Answer for Q1~

A1:



Reference: ECTOPIC HEART BEAT

-Patient was a 47y.o woman and was actually prep for a nasal septoplasty, the above ECG was an incidental finding, the surgery had to be postponed in order to facilitate further investigations on her CVS.

-Good job guys~ do compare with between the two pictures above and learn a thing or two from them.



~I'll put the answers for the rest of the questions in this same post later, i'm in the middle of exam week now~

Cheerio~

Im studying in cucms. I just want to know the relationship between these 2 factors.Are you mean that I no need to know these?

They taught me about the mechanism but do not relate anything to intensity and frequency.Maybe,I think too much.

Here,the first semester we learn the basic medical sciences in separated subjects as introduction to make sure we have the strong basic of medical sciences.

Then second semester onward we will start to learn all these basic medical sciences by organ system and of course some clinical relevance stuff will be injected as well.

So,now we just at the quite basic state but lecturer trying to relating some fact that we learn with some clinical cases to make it more interesting and understandable.Now,I have finish my first course that is general anatomy and enter second course ,physiology.

I can understand what is actually happening in mechanism of blood glucose regulation and the problems occur when there is something wrong to the mechanism.Other than that,I also can relating some classical symptoms(polyuria,polydipsia,glucosuria) of diabetes mellitus to the things that I learn.

Maybe I think those what i learn can related to intensity and frequency of stimulus but cant actually.

This post has been edited by MBBS siang: Sep 12 2009, 06:01 PM

you are missing the woods for the trees.........

what on earth are they teaching there?!......

Now they are teaching the basic science like anat,physio,patho,pharmaco as introduction for one semester before we enter system......! What are you expected?

Actually,I will relating the blood glucose regulation mechanism to the "intensity" and "frequency" .

Its because I think that the beta cell detect the amount (intensity)of glucose in the blood is increase to the level that higher than the set-point then the correction will be carried out.

If there is something wrong to the mechanism ,so ,the correction could out occur properly and the stimulus(abnormal high level of glucose) will persist that keep on stimulate the beta cells to correct the conditions(frequency).

Im trying to use this 2 words to explain. I dont know correct or not,so I ask lo!

This post has been edited by MBBS siang: Sep 12 2009, 08:13 PM

it should be either 'what are you expecting' or 'what do you expect'........

so why are you so worked up about this 'intensity' and 'frequency' thing?.......

as far as my medical knowledge is concerned, the diabetic ppl are thirsty because they keep peeing water out, due to osmotic diuresis, i dont know what's with the intensity, and frequency....

This post has been edited by cygoh9: Sep 12 2009, 08:10 PM

Why I am trying to relate the blood glucose regulation mechanism to the "intensity" and "frequency" ?

It is because I think that the amount (intensity)of glucose in the blood is increased to the level that higher than the set-point is detected by beta cell, then the correction will be carried out.

If there is something wrong to the mechanism the correction could out occur properly and the stimulus(abnormal high level of glucose) will persist and keep on stimulating the beta cells to correct the conditions(frequency).

So, I try to use these 2 words to explain. I dont know if it is correct.That's why I ask.

---

Added on September 12, 2009, 8:25 pmI know what you are trying to say.It is due to the glucose which contained in the filtrate of renal tubule that attracting the water from ECF of the surrounding of the renal tubule then cause polyuria.The body continue to lost the water this stimulate the thirst center to tell us to drink water(thirsty)polydipsia.

This post has been edited by MBBS siang: Sep 12 2009, 09:00 PM

I think you are mixing things up.

Did they teach you about Action Potentials and nerves? Something along the lines of the intensity of the stimulus determines the frequency of action potential firing?

What you are doing at the moment is mixing the nervous system with the endocrine system. Words must be used accurately in the right context.

P/S: You need to work on the bolded parts

We have not learn the action potential yet but I learn it in stpm before. The exam for last friday which about the homeotasis do come out with the word intensity but I forgot the sentence already.Therefore,I try to explain it with these 2 words.

This post has been edited by MBBS siang: Sep 12 2009, 08:50 PM

I appreciate your enthusiasm. But you will cover endocrine soon, not now. And I'm still unclear on what you said.

I dont think there is much of nervous system involved in beta cell stimulation.

PS have you covered the physiology of how glucose enter beta cell yet? and how insulin is secreted etc.

Hmm....I know already.

I don't relate the endocrine system with nervous system actually.No,we just roughly know the process because have not enter the system yet.

I'm sorry MBBS >< I still don't get your question. =/ All that came to my mind are gluconeogenesis and glycogenolysis processes in the case of diabetes. Not sure whether it's related to your question or not. >< sorry

medicine is a very precise field, and the terms used means very specific meanings, sometimes different from what lay people understands......

hence a good command of the language used for medical practice is vital.....and in msia, and much of the world as well, the language used is english......

therefore fluent and faultless use of english is vital for effective communication between healthcare personnels........

and therefore, those medical students whose english ability is wanting, should take effort to have it remedied asap..........

True. I have to learn.

i am just going to be honest here.. it actually scares me, to think of what our future Drs are going to be after reading the few recent posts here..

i could possibly be one of their patients one day, and i wish things will turn out ok. perhaps i may have to screen test the Drs first before they actually screen test me in the future..

well valens, have some faith!!!

has there been any case that a houseman was suspended or barred from treating patients?

yes........

this is an internal email in a major gov hospital, names deleted......so you all know........

===================================
From: xxx
Sent: Thursday, 10 September, 2009 2:24 PM
To: xxx
Subject: FW： HO issue



Dear all,



Not H1N1 but something more deadly than it if we are not careful....



Our department like other department are filled with houseman



What I would like to point out is that the HO now are taking things for granted, as too many of them pushing responsibilities to another HO when things happen..



I am very concerned with the 'attitude" of the HO nowadays...they just have no sense of responsibilities and some don't use their "brain" at all



You can laugh aloud if you can find one good HO out of ten nowadays... frankly speaking



The thing of concern is :

1. Taggers HO do not show all the case they clerk to the MO on call - how can this happen? One of my patient ( a staff in Pharmacy ) admitted for Ct guided biopsy on Sunday and it was stated in the form - to take the necessary test. A responsible HO will clerk, take the blood and trace the blood make sure it is ready with the patient when he goes down for the procedure the next day. But it doesn't materalize that way - the suppose HO oncall that day and MO on call don't know anything about the case - poor man was kept NPO till pm only have his biopsy done!!! Imagine how would you feel if you are the patient yourself- do you want such treatment- such an irresponsible act? I am now the vilian among the HO - I scolded them and try to find out what went wrong - I found out that the HO who clerk the patient is a tagger ( day 5 of life, 1st poster from "Ukraine" Uni ) clerked the case - as usual blurr - didn't show to any MO and pass over the case properly to HO on call even. Why is this happening? where is the governence? I asked the HO to apologize to the patient and I will ask the patient myself if he did that ( as and act to show that he really acknowledge his mistake and take responsibility for that )



2. Nowadays, you have to ask the HO to go and trace result ( an important result ) and it is not a volunteer act of responsibilities. Time change, you may call it generation gap



This is serious matter and if we don't rectify this problem, it will fall upon us when this HO---> MO and posted to district. They will come back and haunt you again and who even know, you may be under their care one day - "you will have to pray hard they don't kill you with their act of ignorance???"



I believe our MO are too benign, all soft spoken and in the end, this is the result. The voice is not heard - long goes are the general, captain days.....



If the HO is wrong, please tell them so. Please do not tolerate such attitude / behaviour. Nice pat on their back will not solve the problem!



Make sure they are properly briefed - especially those from "Ukraine" and "cocky fella" who thinks they are top student of respective universities



I suggest :

1. All taggers must present the cases they clerk and their management plan to MO on call

2. All taggers must pass over the case to HO on call

3. Each HO must be hold responsible for the case under their care ( so they must clerk, take blood, trace the investigation result daily and report progress to the MO ) - no share share

4. HO must see all the cases before the MO ( that means they must come early - no more 7.30am, see the case with MO ) There is so many of them and the number of patient is so little. Anyway, they have very few calls, should have enough sleep compare to MO/ us last time.

5. The specialist and MO should be more strict with them - do not tolerate non-sense

6. A responsible HO is a person who accept his mistake and not making excuses. If the HO is finding excuses for his mistake, please reprimand him..



It really saddens me... when I see how things are evolving. We can choose not to care but I think we need to care and do something before things get worst!



Rgds,

Where are your worries come from? Thanks!

We are students,if there is any misconception about what we learn is acceptable.As long as the students willing to find out the answer is consider good.

You should have confident to the future doctors here,most of them are very helpful and open minded. We have exposed to so many cases regarding the irresponsible of HO.So,that is very good reminder to us before we become HO.

This post has been edited by MBBS siang: Sep 13 2009, 09:27 AM

the other area of concern is the motivation of young doctors from henceforth......

>20 years ago, there are no private med schools, education even overseas like uk/oz was virtually free. even those who went to india pay relatively little. over the last 15 years fees have increased significantly........now, with the mushrooming of med schools both locally and overseas, and high fees private med education, young doctors will have paid anyway between a quarter to over a million ringgit for their education.......

there is going to be a very strong urge to recoup this investment as quick as possible.......this will change the way medicine is practiced.......and ethics and patients will be the victims.......

all we need is to have 10% of young doctors compromising ethics.....(the figure is likely to be more than 10%, based on normal human behaviour and motivation)........

yes, there are very strong grounds to be concerned.........

This is very true.I totally agree with this.The bolded part is highly concerned.The patients shouldn't be the victims in order for a young doctor to compensate their investment or gain more than that. The most important thing to be concerned must be the ethics.The doctor wanna be should understand what they are going to learn is not just the medical knowledge but the passion to care.

All the ethics are come from the "passion to care".My mum always remind me,when I graduate as a doctor don't put the money as the priority and please care your patients properly because she is going to be our future patients.

So,every doctor wannabe please bear in mind.When we start to do something irresponsible to the patient please think of it for a while.Will you still do the same things if the patient is our parents or siblings.(touch wood)

Of course, I will always remind me and keep me away from "syaitan"! Don't let the "investment" as a motivation to make us to be the hantu later on.

This post has been edited by MBBS siang: Sep 13 2009, 11:06 AM

Valens don't worry. Not ALL medical students will end up with a licence to save*or kill* lives. My lecturers did mention about the % of medical students failing to get their licence to practice, but sadly I've forgotten the actual figure.

scary letter indeed. has this been a trend? the more older generation not liking the current generation and think they are incompetent? or its just getting very bad over the last couple of years.

i guess HO/MO years they can't really rush through and make money quick. they have capped pay but i guess not following procedure is a serious offense. judging by my nature, i really hope i'm more aware and hope to excel during HO/MO years which are the years that really make the big difference in a doctor's career right?

hmm, oh yeah does any patient have the right to know where their HO or MO has graduated from? i mean i highly doubt it, but can a patient in a public hospital request for a different ho or mo?!? if thats the case alot of 3rd world med graduates are gonna be screwed over if the whole stereotype plays through.

there has always been incompetent doctors before.......typically they come from india (i know some people are going to flame me for this!), but some from ipta as well, as entry into ipta can be suspect as well, and very poor students passed..........

it will become increasing problem, with the mass of newly minted doctors from ukraine, russia, india, indonesia etc......as these places takes in some very very lousy students.......

the ipts upstart med schools are little better, based on the kind of students they accept........

yes, it is an increasing problem, due to the numbers, and proportions......recently, the dg of health revealed 15% of housemans in gov hospitals were incompetent..........ie, cannot function at all........usually due to very poor knowledge........this proportion will increase........

This post has been edited by limeuu: Sep 13 2009, 06:35 PM

oh my god, who wants to go to government hosp liddat? cannot function at all = ? what have they been learning in med school? at least something right?! normal GP work? normal Antibiotics? recognising potential life threatening diseases? and, ASK when they dont know ? zz

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Added on September 13, 2009, 7:03 pmto be honest, and to be frank, i know someone's gonna bang me for this but yea, if i'm good, i think i deserve $$ for that.

This post has been edited by cygoh9: Sep 13 2009, 07:03 PM