monash msia or clayton?

onelove went to trinity foundation in melbourne, i remember 2 years ago, in his naivety, he was very sure he was going to do medicine at u melb.....

actually imu recognises trinity foundation, but they have a marking system different from the year12 ter system, and imu deem his results inadequate for entry......

this highlights a problem i have always warned potential foundation students......other unis may not recognise (or may not give as much weightage to) other foundation programmes.......it is still best to do generic pre-u programmes, like a-levels, sam/ausmat, ib, even stpm........and i now conclude that unless you are very sure you want to go to oz, a-levels is the best pre-u programme, gets you into all the commonwealth countries.........

my bad, yes you are right, i think i confused him with you!

i believe onelove did an fy in Perth.......was it canning?....

the point about using fy to get into critical courses like medicine stands......

some revamp of the housejobs will be done.......while number of places in med schools have increased 50%, the number of housejobs have not increased correspondingly.......this knock-on effect will be most felt in 2012 when several new med schools churns out their new graduates.......therefore within the next few years, this will be adjusted accordingly.......

if the numbers fail to match the graduating numbers, this will not be the first time australia turned away foreign aussie trained doctors.......this happened in the early 90's when oz was in a recession......all foreigners had to leave......

nobody pays rm700+k in fees so they can come back to work for rm3k/mth...........unless they have no choice........

as a jpa scholar, you will, and should return to serve your bond on graduation........otherwise don't take the scholarship you can't commit to the bond.......

many jpa and mara scholars default on their bonds.......both bodies, being typical of msian efficiency, are very lax in tracing these defaulters and imposing the penalty.......so most got away with it........the country spent rm1 million of my tax money, and got nothing in return.........

my point is not from the legal aspect.......but the moral and ethics aspect......

and no, the scholarship does NOT come with the provision of staying on to do postgraduate.......

in the past the penalty of default was a ridiculously small fixed sum, something like rm100k........so when the jpa scholarship was opened to non-malays in the late 90's, many took it and just pay the bond at the end.......

current penalty is the full sum spent on the student plus interests.......but i know of several scholars who defaulted and up to 2-3 years after, no action was taken by jpa.........

in spite of clear instructions given to scholars just before they graduate, that they have to return, some people appealed, and were given exemption, to stay back and attempt post-graduate......so the jpa itself is at fault for being inconsistent in its actions........

once you are working in oz, applying and getting a pr is likely, so that is usually not an issue.......

however, many med students thinks it is easy to just continue and get postgraduate training......in oz, training and eligibility to sit for postgraduate exams is tightly controlled by the respective speciality colleges, and it is VERY highly competitive trying to get into a training post.......and seniority plays no part in this.......once you fail to get in, you reapply and goes back into the pool together with all your upcoming juniors........

in this respect, the uk colleges are easier, as they are more open to people sitting for the exams.......for the medical colleges that is......but unfortunately they are as strict for the surgical colleges' fellowships exams (they are lax for the mrcs, but that is NOT recognised by msia).......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Sep 8 2009, 10:28 AM

i doubt if there are any internationals working in oz past fgy1 who are not pr's.......your bridging visa runs out in 18 months.....the limiting factor is not getting the jobs, but the visa to stay and work......

some will use employer sponsored visas to stay on, but that means working in remote areas, and you will not be in contention for training jobs for that period.....but most will just apply for a pr.......

yes there is such a policy, unofficially......

there is also such policy in uk, where pmetb ruled that img cannot take numbered jobs......however, foreigners graduating from uk med schools are considered home graduates.......

there is no way one can get enough points as a student for a pr, so it is always a family thing, usually the students parent(s) being eligible and obtaining a pr half way through the course........as a dependent, the student also become a pr........

mbbs, where are you studying again?.......

if this is what they are teaching, i worry.....both at the things they are teaching, and you obsession with obscure facts of no clinical relevance........

you are missing the woods for the trees.........

what on earth are they teaching there?!......

it should be either 'what are you expecting' or 'what do you expect'........

so why are you so worked up about this 'intensity' and 'frequency' thing?.......

medicine is a very precise field, and the terms used means very specific meanings, sometimes different from what lay people understands......

hence a good command of the language used for medical practice is vital.....and in msia, and much of the world as well, the language used is english......

therefore fluent and faultless use of english is vital for effective communication between healthcare personnels........

and therefore, those medical students whose english ability is wanting, should take effort to have it remedied asap..........

yes........

this is an internal email in a major gov hospital, names deleted......so you all know........

===================================
From: xxx
Sent: Thursday, 10 September, 2009 2:24 PM
To: xxx
Subject: FW： HO issue



Dear all,



Not H1N1 but something more deadly than it if we are not careful....



Our department like other department are filled with houseman



What I would like to point out is that the HO now are taking things for granted, as too many of them pushing responsibilities to another HO when things happen..



I am very concerned with the 'attitude" of the HO nowadays...they just have no sense of responsibilities and some don't use their "brain" at all



You can laugh aloud if you can find one good HO out of ten nowadays... frankly speaking



The thing of concern is :

1. Taggers HO do not show all the case they clerk to the MO on call - how can this happen? One of my patient ( a staff in Pharmacy ) admitted for Ct guided biopsy on Sunday and it was stated in the form - to take the necessary test. A responsible HO will clerk, take the blood and trace the blood make sure it is ready with the patient when he goes down for the procedure the next day. But it doesn't materalize that way - the suppose HO oncall that day and MO on call don't know anything about the case - poor man was kept NPO till pm only have his biopsy done!!! Imagine how would you feel if you are the patient yourself- do you want such treatment- such an irresponsible act? I am now the vilian among the HO - I scolded them and try to find out what went wrong - I found out that the HO who clerk the patient is a tagger ( day 5 of life, 1st poster from "Ukraine" Uni ) clerked the case - as usual blurr - didn't show to any MO and pass over the case properly to HO on call even. Why is this happening? where is the governence? I asked the HO to apologize to the patient and I will ask the patient myself if he did that ( as and act to show that he really acknowledge his mistake and take responsibility for that )



2. Nowadays, you have to ask the HO to go and trace result ( an important result ) and it is not a volunteer act of responsibilities. Time change, you may call it generation gap



This is serious matter and if we don't rectify this problem, it will fall upon us when this HO---> MO and posted to district. They will come back and haunt you again and who even know, you may be under their care one day - "you will have to pray hard they don't kill you with their act of ignorance???"



I believe our MO are too benign, all soft spoken and in the end, this is the result. The voice is not heard - long goes are the general, captain days.....



If the HO is wrong, please tell them so. Please do not tolerate such attitude / behaviour. Nice pat on their back will not solve the problem!



Make sure they are properly briefed - especially those from "Ukraine" and "cocky fella" who thinks they are top student of respective universities



I suggest :

1. All taggers must present the cases they clerk and their management plan to MO on call

2. All taggers must pass over the case to HO on call

3. Each HO must be hold responsible for the case under their care ( so they must clerk, take blood, trace the investigation result daily and report progress to the MO ) - no share share

4. HO must see all the cases before the MO ( that means they must come early - no more 7.30am, see the case with MO ) There is so many of them and the number of patient is so little. Anyway, they have very few calls, should have enough sleep compare to MO/ us last time.

5. The specialist and MO should be more strict with them - do not tolerate non-sense

6. A responsible HO is a person who accept his mistake and not making excuses. If the HO is finding excuses for his mistake, please reprimand him..



It really saddens me... when I see how things are evolving. We can choose not to care but I think we need to care and do something before things get worst!



Rgds,

the other area of concern is the motivation of young doctors from henceforth......

>20 years ago, there are no private med schools, education even overseas like uk/oz was virtually free. even those who went to india pay relatively little. over the last 15 years fees have increased significantly........now, with the mushrooming of med schools both locally and overseas, and high fees private med education, young doctors will have paid anyway between a quarter to over a million ringgit for their education.......

there is going to be a very strong urge to recoup this investment as quick as possible.......this will change the way medicine is practiced.......and ethics and patients will be the victims.......

all we need is to have 10% of young doctors compromising ethics.....(the figure is likely to be more than 10%, based on normal human behaviour and motivation)........

yes, there are very strong grounds to be concerned.........

there has always been incompetent doctors before.......typically they come from india (i know some people are going to flame me for this!), but some from ipta as well, as entry into ipta can be suspect as well, and very poor students passed..........

it will become increasing problem, with the mass of newly minted doctors from ukraine, russia, india, indonesia etc......as these places takes in some very very lousy students.......

the ipts upstart med schools are little better, based on the kind of students they accept........

yes, it is an increasing problem, due to the numbers, and proportions......recently, the dg of health revealed 15% of housemans in gov hospitals were incompetent..........ie, cannot function at all........usually due to very poor knowledge........this proportion will increase........

This post has been edited by limeuu: Sep 13 2009, 06:35 PM

i should caution that there are 2 categories of problem housemans mentioned by the writer of the email i posted......

besides the incompetent doctors, the other group is those good students, even from good med schools, who may even be top of their classes........who comes with an arrogant attitude, and a 'superior than thou' demeanor.......thinks they know everything, and is dogmatic and refuses to learn new things.........

the worst of course is the incompetent AND arrogant young doctor, there will always be one or two in every batch of new housemans........

the other comment i want to make is about the gp's.......like said, the fully trained gp is a actually a very competent doctor, and in some countries like oz, being a certified gp (fracgp) is not easy and can be considered a family medicine specialist.......

repost from another thread.........

it is very expensive to train doctors.......in public funded med schools in well managed countries, they select their students very carefully, to MINIMISE the drop out/failure rate, these seats cannot be replaced by other students......

for private institutions, the economics changes.........to maximise income, three things will happen.........

first, they will fill ALL available places, even with mediocre students, and they set very low minimum cut offs (eg, mahsa cutoff for a levels is CCC !!!)..........

second, they will try to KEEP these students, as keeping them means more fees.......hence leniency to pass as many as possible........this is well demonstrated in russian med schools.......

third, specifically in the case of imu, due to the fact that they partner with med schools in well managed education/healthcare systems, they are compelled to maintain standards (cannot play hanky panky like some ipts [and ipta too, for different reasons] as many watchful eyes are watching), and thus attrition rate is high.......but they compensated for this by taking in many MORE than the actual pms places they have.....and fail the extras along the way......even if the students try out for 1 or 2 sems, it's income to them..........