Public Mutual Berhad (Public Mutual) is the largest private unit trust company in Malaysia and currently manages more than 70 funds with total NAV of more than RM34.3 billion for more than 2,000,000 accountholders. Incorporated in July 1975, Public Mutual began its operations in 1980 with the launch of the Public Savings Fund, and soon went on to become an industry leader and setting forth new trends in innovative fund development.

More: http://www.publicmutual.com.my/AboutUs.aspx

1. Daily NAV price posting

URL: http://www.publicmutual.com.my/application.../fundprice.aspx

2. Public Mutual Onine

URL: https://www.publicmutualonline.com.my/

3. Fund Performance Chart

URL: http://www.publicmutual.com.my/OurFunds/Fu...manceChart.aspx

4. PBebank Internet Banking

URL: http://www.pbebank.com/en/en_content/personal/index.html

5. Important charges

Service Charge

Equity fund
Service Charge: 5.5% of NAV (excluding initial promo and DDI)
Repurchase Charge: NIL
Annual Management Fee: 1.5% p.a of NAV
Trustee Fee: 0.06% p.a. of NAV subjected to min fee of RM 18k p.a. and max fee of RM 600k p.a.

Bond/Money Market fund
Service Charge: 0.25% of NAV
Repurchase Charge: NIL
Annual Management Fee: 0.75% p.a of NAV
Trustee Fee: 0.035% p.a. of NAV subjected to min fee of RM 18k p.a. and max fee of RM 300k p.a.0.25% of NAV

Switching Fee - UPDATED


6. Weekly Market Wrap

7. URL: http://www.publicmutual.com.my/MarketReview.aspx

Previous version

v1: http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/511793
v2: http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1299169
v3: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2007814

This post has been edited by David83: Sep 10 2014, 12:07 PM

yay... new thread!!

My PM portfolio funds have not been doing any topping up for 4-5 months already..

l have been ignoring them for nearly a year or more.

Hi.

If I missed a Standing Instruction for my Public Mutual funds would the system cancel the SI? Or would it just suspend the SI until there are funds in the account that I'm drawing from?

Reason I'm asking is coz due to some banking errors I did not have any funds in the account that was paying the SI for my PM funds. Only realized after the 8th. So there is no SI this month. Can I still resume the SI?

No worries.. SI will continue next month if you hv funds in your account..

YES, CORRECT.

Thanks for the advice. So basically there will be no investment this month right? If say I put money in before the 18th will it auto deduct? Or will the SI only begin next month again?

How long before the SI will auto cancel?

This is fund performance start from 01/01/2012, as at 31/07/2012.

http://www.publicmutual.com.my/application...formancenw.aspx


PUBLIC AGGRESSIVE GROWTH FUND (Open For EPF and Cash)
PAGF / 3.51%

PUBLIC ASIA ITTIKAL FUND
PAIF / 6.81%

PUBLIC AUSTRALIA EQUITY FUND
PAUEF /6.81%

PUBLIC BALANCED FUND(Open For EPF and Cash)
PBF / 2.11%

PUBLIC BOND FUND
PBOND /2.99%

PUBLIC CHINA ITTIKAL FUND
PCIF / -8.36%

PUBLIC CHINA SELECT FUND
PCSF / -17.09%

PUBLIC CHINA TITANS FUND
PCTF / -0.92%

PUBLIC DIVIDEND SELECT FUND (Open For EPF and Cash)
PDSF / 9.58%

PUBLIC ENHANCED BOND FUND
PEBF / 4.1%

PUBLIC ENTERPRISES BOND FUND
PENTBF / 1.26%

PUBLIC EQUITY FUND (Open For EPF and Cash)
PEF / 3.20%

PUBLIC FAR-EAST ALPHA-30 FUND
PFA30F / -0.20

PUBLIC FAR-EAST BALANCED FUND
PFEBF / 2.62%

PUBLIC FAR-EAST CONSUMER THEMES FUND
PFECTF / 3.33%

PUBLIC FAR-EAST DIVIDEND FUND
PFEDF / -1.57%

PUBLIC FAR-EAST PROPERTY & RESORTS FUND
PFEPRF / 14.25%

PUBLIC FAR-EAST SELECT FUND
PFES / -6.96%

PUBLIC FAR-EAST TELCO & INFRASTRUCTURE FUND
PFETIF / -4.36%

PUBLIC FOCUS SELECT FUND (Open For EPF and Cash)
PFSF / 12.97%

PUBLIC GLOBAL SELECT FUND
PGSF / 4.91%

PUBLIC GROWTH FUND (Open For EPF and Cash)
PGF / 2.60%

PUBLIC INDEX FUND (Open For EPF and Cash)
PIX / 6.71%

PUBLIC INDONESIA SELECT FUND
PINDOSF / 1071%

PUBLIC INDUSTRY FUND (Open For EPF and Cash)
PIF / 6.70%

PUBLIC INSTITUTIONAL BOND FUND
PINBOND / 1.86%

PUBLIC ISLAMIC ALPHA-40 GROWTH FUND
PIA40GF / 7.62%

PUBLIC ISLAMIC ASIA DIVIDEND FUND
PIADF / 6.95%

PUBLIC ISLAMIC ASIA LEADERS EQUITY FUND
PIALEF / 3.36%

PUBLIC ISLAMIC ASIA TACTICAL ALLOCATION FUND **
PIATAF / 7.37%

PUBLIC ISLAMIC BOND FUND
PIBOND / 3.02%

PUBLIC ISLAMIC DIVIDEND FUND (Open For EPF and Cash)
PIDF / 10.81%

PUBLIC ISLAMIC ENHANCED BOND FUND
PIEBF / 3.14%

PUBLIC ISLAMIC EQUITY FUND (Open For EPF and Cash)
PIEF / 10.55%

PUBLIC ISLAMIC INCOME FUND (Open For EPF and Cash)
PI INCOME / 2.78%

PUBLIC ISLAMIC INFRASTRUCTURE BOND FUND
PIINFBF /2.76%

PUBLIC ISLAMIC MIXED ASSET FUND
PIMXAF / 5.41%

PUBLIC ISLAMIC MONEY MARKET FUND (Open For EPF and Cash)
PIMMF / 1.69%

PUBLIC ISLAMIC OPPORTUNITIES FUND
PIOF /15.14%

PUBLIC ISLAMIC OPTIMAL GROWTH FUND (Open For EPF and Cash)
PIOGF / 9.15%

PUBLIC ISLAMIC SAVINGS FUND
PISVF / 6.76%

PUBLIC ISLAMIC SECTOR SELECT FUND
PISSF / 7.51%

PUBLIC ISLAMIC SELECT BOND FUND
PISBF / 2.62%

PUBLIC ISLAMIC SELECT ENTERPRISES FUND (Open For EPF and Cash)
PISEF / 10.72%

PUBLIC ISLAMIC SELECT TREASURES FUND (Open For EPF and Cash)
PISTF / 9.47%

PUBLIC ISLAMIC STRATEGIC BOND FUND
PISTBF / 2.48%

PUBLIC ISLAMIC TREASURES GROWTH FUND
PITGF / 14.22%

PUBLIC ITTIKAL FUND (Open For EPF and Cash)
PITTIKAL / 8.09%

PUBLIC ITTIKAL SEQUEL FUND
PITSEQ / 10.75%

PUBLIC MONEY MARKET FUND
PMMF / 1.69%

PUBLIC NATURAL RESOURCES EQUITY FUND
PNREF / -3.99%

PUBLIC OPTIMAL GROWTH FUND
POGF / 7.26%

PUBLIC REGIONAL SECTOR FUND
PRSEC / -5.89%

PUBLIC REGULAR SAVINGS FUND (Open For EPF and Cash)
PRSF / 7.95%

PUBLIC SAVINGS FUND (Open For EPF and Cash)
PSF / 6.50%

PUBLIC SECTOR SELECT FUND (Open For EPF and Cash)
PSSF / 4.65%

PUBLIC SELECT ALPHA-30 FUND
PSA30F / 6.48%

PUBLIC SELECT BOND FUND (Open For EPF and Cash)
PSBF / 2.05%

PUBLIC SINGAPORE EQUITY FUND
PSGEF / 14.56%

PUBLIC SMALLCAP FUND
PSMALLCAP / 10.24%

PUBLIC SOUTH-EAST ASIA SELECT FUND
PSEASF / 11.35%

PUBLIC STRATEGIC BOND FUND
PSTBF / 2.39%

PUBLIC STRATEGIC SMALLCAP FUND
PSSCF / 3.12%

PUBLIC SUKUK FUND
PSKF / 2.40%

PUBLIC TACTICAL ALLOCATION FUND
PTAF / 1.77%

What fund bro?

I got 6 funds with PM.. Also also not topping up at the moment!

Hello guys, I only just started in PM coz an agent has been persistently convincing my mum to get an account.

When I want to make adjustments (e.g buy more units, switch funds), I want to find out whether must I do it through the agent or do it myself online? What are the benefits of doing it myself online? Will there still be a service fee?

I browsed through some previous posts saying that "NONE" can be selected for agent's name but I didn't read any post saying someone actually did it.

account and first time must be on counter.....
subsequently , can be done online.....

This post has been edited by john123x: Aug 13 2012, 06:56 PM

Do online DIY and still incur full sales charge?

yea...... if exclude promo......

This post has been edited by john123x: Aug 13 2012, 07:04 PM

Now I understand why more and more moving toward FSM and CIMB Clicks

dealing with a bank more safer than dealing with FSM......

Pub-Mut business model gets chanllenged more and more as the days pass by.

I pity those who still want to get in.

Imagine in future zero percent sales charge.

What will the Pub-Mut UTC do then?

--------------------------

No need to see too long into the future, I know for a fact that Pub-Mut will charge 3% for PRS scheme, where the PRS-UTC will get 1.5% commission.

Some Service provider are thinking zero sales charge.... I wonder how will Pub-Mut PRS-UTC counter this chanllenge?

More NSC trip? Free gift? Lucky draw? Cash back?

Xuzen



This post has been edited by xuzen: Aug 13 2012, 08:04 PM

What does PRS stand for?

I thought you are a PM agent? Well i think some of us here join UTC merely for a lower service charge as an agent ourselves. I think most of the time they can trick aunty and uncle by using 'PM is the largest UT industry and have won many awards every year'. Then they will show how is the performance of the good funds. Not many aunty and uncle know how to use morning star to compare other funds performance. I think they are targetting older people since they have more money. Young people only can DDI RM100-RM1000 every month. Meanwhile aunty uncle can DDI few thousands.

But we as customer should be smart since we got options. If PM not good, just get out of it. Join Fundsupersmart?

Yes, I am a Pub-Mut UTC mainly to access the internal data for better decision making (e.g. Fund beta, Standard Deviation) and to save on Sales Charge.

I use Pub-Mut for KWSP funds since I get sales charge of only 1% after deducting the agent commission. This is still bearable IMO.

Mois, I have been using the Multi-Fund platform such as FSM since 2008 mainly for cash investment because I will never pay 5.5% for SC.

In the near future once I get my CUTA license, I will be looking at zero sales charge.

Xuzen

PM funds are good as well. FMS also offers good funds..

If dont want much headache to monitor ownself, get UTC to manage for you (if you manage to get a good and commited one la).

If wanting to learn and want to manage own $$, go for FSM..

bos, apa tu "CUTA"?

same here; only purchasing a certain bond fund - 0.25% charge.
KLCI still got legs and running up... missed the rally.

now you know! more people joining my private crusade!

Private Retirement Scheme. Why this new development when EPF can be more trusted as it is too big to fail? If you have hit the max ceiling for tax rebate, ask boss to slightly adjust salary by increasing employer's contribution since employer's contribution to EPF is not considered income and is tax free. I think it can be adjusted up to max of 19%.

Can be done, I meant none! My posting is usually based on personal experience.

The online option is better because it offers both Public and PB series of funds, while PM agent can only sell Public funds. Yeah, the service charge is still the same...

When purchasing online, you can also open double (or even triple) accounts on the same fund by selecting Initial Investment instead Additional Investment. I did it by selecting "none" instead of using the same agent's name.

I don't have time to call up Public Mutual during office hours.

Just a quick queston: I know that PM only allows us to do DDI on either 8th or 18th of the month.
1. Possible if I make manual purchase in a weekly basis? Eg. i go to the public mutual branch on Thursday, fill up the form (i don't know what form should it be) and then submit the form at the counter, then the next day public mutual will process my form and buy in units according to the amount I fill up in the form. Something like that?
2. Possible for me to do DDI on BOTH 8th AND 18th of the month?

er.. Sis, U have Public Bank a/c? Can do online purchase leh - and do what U are thinking online instead of running around.
ELSE if U registered for Public Mutual Online, ALSO can do online.
The only prob is - this aint DDI and if that fund U are investing in "closes" for additional investments but not DDI, sorry - game over.

Hit that brick wall before with PSmallCap and PBond, via investing online through PBBank

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 13 2012, 10:28 PM

I see!

Thanks for swift reply!

Some things to note:
(1) Good agents are rare
(2) Good and Committed agents are even rarer (if they exist, we would not need the rest of those salesmen/women)
(3) If you make a loss, that's your problem
(4) Sales charge are higher than EVERYONE else
(5) PM performance lost out to other fund managers in ALL categories. It's the biggest, but cannot manage to win anything in any category. It's just like going to the Olympics and claiming you have the largest number of Bronze, but no Silver, and no Gold. And yet charge the highest fees.

Question: why should anyone invest with PM?

I'm open to ideas why I should not move to other channels which offer better performing funds at lower costs? (1% compared to 5.5%)?

1.PM not allows to collect cash, so u hv to go to PB for weekly top up. fill up addiionalinvestment slip with ur acc and name.

I'm not saying collecting cash.

don't feel sad...

DDI (Direct Debit Instruction). Never try this yet; if not mistaken, the only benefit is when the fund is launched, there is a small discount on the service charge (like 0.5%) when you put in the DDI during its introduction period.

If I remember correctly, you cut the DDI to PSmallcap and then it closed for new investment... right?
Why get hook up on DDI, when it is more convenient to do online purchases as and when we want. You can even do it now at night...

KLCI is really up, making new record today (and Olympics was over yesterday!). It is only good if you're trading in stocks (I think), but if we're investing for long term in UT, better to put any purchases on hold for the time being. DDI would be too automatic when it is best to put on hold new investments.

If you haven't done so yet, do apply for Mutual Online and PB e-bank to make purchases online in the meantime. PB e-bank is not really necessary if you have another e-bank account. The difference is that PB ebank has no online banking limits; the transaction limit is then based on your PB account balance.

Cheers.

u cannot submit cash via PM branchs, hv to go PB.

got it?

hi guys, lately i have been approached by a public mutual agent to invest in pb.

i got few questions wana ask

1) if i direct go bank sign up, cheaper compared through agent?
2) what funds u guys suggest me to look into
3) should i wait after election only i sign up? because election will cause market correction lol

Need your advises. thanks

Corporate Unit Trust Advisor....one license to sell them all.

Xuzen

my precious....

If you buy from bank, the bank earns the comission.

If buy from an agent, the agent earns the comission.

2) won't answer coz too many variables.

3) Yeah, wait after election if you are thinking about local funds per se.

Xuzen

---

Added on August 14, 2012, 3:56 pmHe he he WMK is quick to notice my parody.

Anyway, I have access to Pub-Mut fund data, FSM's data and soon.... to add to my little collection, Phillip Cap's internal data for better data comparison.

Xuzen

This post has been edited by xuzen: Aug 14 2012, 03:57 PM

means can sell UTFs from any fund house?

yup, very powderful weapon + access rights (data!!!!)

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 14 2012, 04:01 PM

And don't foget... the ZERO sales charge, is that attractive enough? Also off-shore funds. Labuan anyone?

and and and not to mention....

Very low cost Mega-index funds like Vanguard S&P 500. How does 0.1% annual management fee sound to you? Still want to pay 1.5% AMF?

Xuzen

This post has been edited by xuzen: Aug 14 2012, 04:11 PM

MACAMANA DAPAT ITU BENDA SIFU

Step 1: Get the required academic qualifiation e.g. CFP, RFP, ChFC

Step 2: Get minimum 3 years relevant working experience in the financial industry.

Step 3: Apply to Sec-Com for CUTA lic.

Step 4: Sell them all.....

Xuzen

er.. bottom line, only for "financial industry pros/full timers"?

Lulz @ -baby.

Xuzen

This post has been edited by xuzen: Aug 14 2012, 06:10 PM

well said

Yes, I would happily pay 1.5% AMF (and more) if the Fund Manager can return profits more than anyone else. Clue: Think of Hedge Fund managers.

Focusing on just the AMF is the wrong thing to do.

I don't know what's required for CUTA, but that was the wrong question to ask.

The operative word is the "IF". If the Fund manager return an alpha greater than benchmark fine and dandy to me as well.

However, the operative word is can the Fund manager consistently return an alpha greater than its benchmark? If yes, can its risk be lower than that of the benchmark consistently?

It was this question that prompted John Bogle the fund manager to set up this ultra low cost fund that utilizes passive investing.

Also, if you have read A random walk down Wall Street by Burton Malkiel, the author also come to the same conclusion.

I also have another book All About Index Fund by Richard Ferri in my personal library which also advocate low cost index fund for investor.

On a parting note, I agree that low AER is not the only parameter for choosing a fund, but it does play a part. For me, it plays a big part in choosing a fund. Why the heck you think I become an agent if not to reduce the cost of investment.

Also, by being CUTA, I have access to off-shore funds where the AER is much lower and zero sales charge.

I am first and foremost an investor, hence I think like an investor, not as an agent.

Xuzen.

This post has been edited by xuzen: Aug 14 2012, 09:54 PM

(1) There are no "IF"s as far as I can see in your question: "How does 0.1% annual management fee sound to you? Still want to pay 1.5% AMF? ".

(2) Random walks by who? Alpha what? I don't care about random walks by whoever. I don't care about costs either. I care about PROFITS to me. If you really need to know, I can dig up all sorts of funds with very low costs and LOSSES.

If you care too much about random walks, and about managements fees, and about all sorts of ratios without even understand what a simple figure, ie PROFIT mean, you are just barking up the wrong tree.

This post has been edited by howszat: Aug 14 2012, 10:05 PM

1. As far as I'm concerned, the PSMALL Cap is closed but my DDI is still on going, no problem.

2. DDI is direct debit instruction, you're right. But the benefit of 0.5% discount on service charge doesn't apply to all new fund. To me, DDI is just a way allowing me to invest minimal purchase consistently.

Ahem ahem.. pls allow me to serong a bit with an idea ar.

Since DDI doesn't stop if there's not enough $ in the funding a/c, just skipped for that month:
1. When U want to get in (ie. during low or "normal range" NAV of the fund), have enough in your funding a/c to DDI

2. When U don't want to get in (ie. during abnormally high NAV of the fund), remove your $ from the a/c for those few days - eg. if your DDI = 8th, then perhaps 7th till 9th, have less than DDI amount in your funding a/c, thus DDI does not happen for that month

Yar yar - snakey a bit but what to do, have to "play the game" based on their rules right? Creative a bit lor.
Please note your mileage may vary

Err.. U spamming or true?
Your previous posting: http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2007814/+2413

If there is such thing, can help capture with your phone's camera and share share?

The "IF" I said was in reference to your own writing at post #44 of this thread. He he he... sometimes in the internet, things get lost in translation.

To me, Profits is related to trading. You buy low, sell higher and the excess you call it Profit.

In investment, there are other parameter to consider such as the excess return (alpha) above the benchmark taking into consideration the function of co-relation between the fund volatility and that of the benchmark (aka beta).

I do understand the function of PROFIT, but the question is, do you?

Profit is a function of sale minus cost, and if you do not care about cost, you are missing a parameter in the equation. Since cost is positively co-related variable in the profit equation, you lower the cost, the better your profit.

Random who, alpha what... these are financial articles written by award winning authors and they usually have something worthwhile for investors to ponder upon.

Lastly, you want to show me some funds with low cost and losses? Go ahead, I am all ears. Give me also their benchmark return and their corresponding beta vs their benchmark so that I can make objective evaluation. Thank you.

Xuzen

IMHO, for us fund investors, we should be aware and take into consideration a fund's AER. But, if the fund has demonstrated respectable performance over a reasonably long timeframe (for me, 3-5 years track record would do), I would bear with its SLIGHTLY higher than its peers AER.

Guys, I need some advice from all the sifu here.

I bought my PM funds about 5 years ago and I am still making lost.
To get your advice, here are the fund that i invested.

PIADF, PFEDF, PCSF, PCIF

Here is the advice i got from my agent.

1. PIADF switch to PDSF
2. PFEDF leave it
3. All china fund (perform DDI)

I have to admit that I am a lazy person that I didn't want to monitor the share market and this is also the reason why i enter PM previously and invested my $ there. but after so many years, I am starting to lose confident in PM as I think putting the money in FD is even better. I know making lose is my own fault but now is not the time to blame PM or myself.

I hope someone can give me a good advice on what should I do. My objective is to break even in the shortest time so that i can take out all the money i invested previously and i want to do some other investment.

Hope to get some advice! TQVM

another good tactic... still learning new lessons from our master sifu.

i think there's lots of other factors involved too since this is a PM thread; smaller gains okay with me if the fund house is still standing 10-20 years later.

i) PIDF > PDSF

ii) Leave PIADF as it is.

iii) Switch the China Funds and PFEDF to Public Far East Properties and Resort Fund (PFEPRF) or into PIADF.

They are better performing fund without sacrificing your diversification much.

Xuzen

Hi Xuzen bro/sifu, thanks for ur advice.

Just to confirm the point i), is it you mean PIDF is better than PDSF?

Bit regret didn't do DDI for psmallcap..

some pretty good advices there...

----------------
And for clarity to other readers since there are so many funds in PM...
PIADF - Public Islamic Asia Dividend Fund
PFEDF - Public Far East Dividend Fund
PCSF - Public China Select Fund
PCIF - Public China Ittikal Fund

and PDSF - Public Dividend Select Fund.

Not sure which funds are making lost for you, but I suspect (depending on time of purchase and whether DDI or not) PIADF is a slight gain, PFEDF losing 15-20%, and both the China funds losing 20-25%.

All the 3 Dividend funds are classified as "moderate" funds, while the 2 China funds are "aggressive". PDSF is mainly "local" in that most of the its equity investments is in Malaysia.

PIDF (Public Islamic Dividend Fund), i concur too... one of the few funds that I held that were making gains.

i think PIOF is better.

Best to demonstrate with an example. Consider the following:

(1) Sale=100. Cost=10. Profit=100-10=90
(2) Sale=11. Cost=1. Profit=11-1=10

(2) has lower cost. (1) has higher profit.

You prefer (2) with lower cost?

Me - I prefer (1) with higher profit. I just look at profit of 90. I don't care about the cost of 1. Assuming, of course, other factors being equivalent.

Yes you are right.

My meaning of "consistently" doesn't include situations where bank account doesn't have enough cash.

Kinda hard to explain "detailed" in forum, via typing.

But your additional info helps the forumers a lot.

Thanks !!

Below are the lost that I am making at current stage based on what i got from my agent.

PIADF (0.16%)
PFEDF (21.18%)
PCSF (47.83%)
PCIF (36.35%)

I will go with the advice given by bro xuzen. But i just got another question, if i were to DDI let say RM 500 per month and still stick to the advice given by bro xuzen, will it help to break even faster? Or i should just put in one lump sum of may be RM 5K after switching my China fund to PFEPRF?

Really appreciate you guy's advice. Thanks.

Yay, at last we have some numbers to play around:

i) I prefer option 2 because Profit/sale x 100 = Profit margin. Hence 10/11 x 100 = 90.90% profit margin versus you little puny tiny 90.00% margin. LOL at you.

Not very financial literate are we?

Young padawan, too one dimensional one is, more knowledge one acquire should.

Xuzen

---

Added on August 16, 2012, 11:23 amSwitch lump sum from China funds to cut loss first, thereafter DDI to the better fund to reduce volatility.

DDI does not reduces the payback period (aka Break-even), it only reduces the volatility (aka investment risk).

Look after the risk yourself and let the return take care of itself - quote from some investment guru I read somewhere, not sure who, could be W. Buffet.

Xuzen

This post has been edited by xuzen: Aug 16 2012, 11:23 AM

Thank You sir! I will do the necessary....

for the current market situation, its very hard to break even in the short term in any funds. assuming u already planed to exit from UT after the break even....

my suggestion,
switch all the funds to bond funds now...... stop DDI..... wait for GE....... market may/will drop (but dont know how may/low will be).... switch back to local equity funds, those focus to local marlet 100% after the GE.

u may get break even faster. (but dont know how the faster).

take note... china market is abt to recover from bottom. and also expected local funds will be uptrend until GE, (assuming no external factor wil affect local market)

sharing only.

param not optimistic about foreign equities?

Thanks for ur advice bro.

Actually u got it right bro. I am somehow planning to exit UT once i got the break even.

Based on ur advice, which Bond fund that you would recommend? I also heard my agent said the China fund is going to recover but they remain as aggressive fund. So i am not too sure as i really know nuts about UT

Below is my reply to my agent after advice here and at the same time now waiting for her advice as well.

1. Leave my PIADF at it is now.
2. Switch all my China fund and PFEDF to PFEPRF
3. If have a budget of RM 500 per month for DDI, which fund would you recommend (PIADF or PFEPRF)

So based on ur advice, don't DDI anymore, then it's hard to shorten the time to recover for my case right?

need to wait another cycle like 2008-loh....

for local, next cycle coult be comng GE. the most late next yr before april.

take note indonesia select fund doing well too.

I predict will be nov the cycle.. Hehe

If ur intention is to continue with UT, my suggestion will be diff.

It’s not a good idea to top up anymore if u plan to exit? If u want to continue, u can do DDI.

Starting DDI, never shorten the time. may be lump sum top up will do if the price recovered to original price in short time.


Let say if u invested rm50k, If u bougth the unit at rm1. If the price 0.50 now. U need to invest another rm25k. assuming the fund is recovering, the price is need to back to rm1 to recover old lost. How abt ur additional rm25K? so, the price shud at least to go up to rm1.25 for the break even for RM75k. (ur total investment) this is by applying lump sump only.

Rm50k
Unit price =rm1
Total units = 50k

Rm25k
Unit price = rm0.50
Total units = 50k

Cost per unit = rm75k/100k
= rm1.25



Do you think by DDI, u can achieve it in short time to recover the lost?. I don’t think so for current market condition.

DDI is for buy less unit for higher price and more units for cheaper price. Every units u buy need to work for u to give profits. Its will take some time. The longer u hold/DDI, the higher the rewards. Of course, the fund shud perform well the time u exit with profits. Ur cost per units shud be cheaper than market price.

My suggestion is to avoid any more top up and recover from wat u hv now. Switch all to bond funds now. My suggestion to public sukuk fund. Switch back to local equity funds when the time is favorable for u.

U can ask other forumers abt forign funds, I’m a local funds lover.

Maybe ur agent can guides you better.

Wat is the investment in ur mind now?
Why u want to exit? Is it u lost ur money?

This is investment which comes with profits and lost. U shud study the fund(or any investment) first.

sharing only. no right no wrong.

rm75k/100k = rm1.25

fail maths

alamak my mistake malu-nya saya.



rm75k/100k = rm0.75

the price shud back to rm0.75 for the breakeven.

Let say if u invested rm50k, If u bougth the unit at rm1. If the price 0.50 now. U need to invest another rm25k. assuming the fund is recovering, the market price is need to reach back to rm0.75 to recover old lost.

RM50k
Unit price =rm1
Total units = 50k
cost per unit = rm1

RM25k
Unit price = rm0.50
Total units = 50k
cost per unit = rm0.50

average cost per unit = rm75k/100k
= rm0.75

so now the maths is clear, when to top up or DDI is different, right?

my reply which i was about to post: "As to the last Q, I would prefer to register into the online service and do additional investments myself, and as the minimum additional investment is RM100, maybe take on both funds or either one depending on which fund's price goes lower."

Reason: Buy low, sell high.

---------------------
The longer version which I have typed and about to post:

I got hit almost as bad as you by PCSF and a large percentage of my total funds is also in china and far east funds. My PCSF lost ranges from 41-49%. (got to put up a brave front and smile!) The plus point is that the calculated lost is included the service charge. But fortunately, some other funds were making gains, so they lessen the blow. Anyway, it is paper lost as the game is still on and not over yet until we quit.

No matter how we fine tune and balance the funds we're holding, it will take some time to recover; it takes 5 years to come to the present situation... so maybe 2.5 years at the earliest to breakeven?

So at least with a certain time frame in mind, we can try to plan and not act too rashly in switching and balancing the funds when things don't seem to be moving or improving; and also in making new investments, especially in lump sums, to chase profits. The market can change directions in an instant, no one can be too sure.

As to the last Q, I would prefer to register into the online service and do additional investments myself, and as the minimum additional investment is RM100, maybe take on both funds or either one depending on which fund's price goes lower.

Cheers. Happy Investing.
And Selamat Hari Raya to all our muslim friends.

I am just starting to see my pittikal out of the red zone this week. Pain lesson chasing the high ride almost 2 yrs ago.

Ah, good catch.

Try this then:

(1) Sale=100. Cost=10. Profit=100-10=90
(2) Sale=9. Cost=1. Profit=9-1=8

Does your financial literacy based on low cost still apply?

lucky you!

KLCI will hit 1660 anytime, and maybe can reach 1700, it's never too late to chase.

======================

PCSF

If not mistaken, the fund size of PCSF in its early years was over 0.5 billion... and since i last checked, it was about 300 million ringgit. From various posts in several other forums, it seemed that the advice is usually to cut lost and get out. This fund had seriously under-performed its benchmark, and with each withdrawal that will force the fund manager to liquidate at the wrong moment, it is hard to imagine the fund will perform any better in the near future.

It’s just my newbie/amateur opinion, what do you guys/gals think?

Anyone willing to put fresh money into it?
NAV is currently 0.1458; 37% gain if it goes up to 0.20.
71% if it goes back to initial 0.25.
If that's not attractive enough, its peak was above 0.28.

This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Aug 16 2012, 09:44 PM

Anything that shows a pattern of underperforming the benchmark is a serious candidate for cutting loss. Even just tracking the benchmark is not good enough.

got extra $$
consider to invest in new fund, which fund is better?
currently already invest in PRSF.....

Thanks bro for ur clear explanation. The reason why i decided to quit is because i started my investment 5 years ago and now i am still making lost. I have to admit that during these 5 years, i never put in my own efforts to learn the rules of investment in PMF and i just blindly put my money there by hoping that i will get some returns but after 5 years, i am still making lost and i just felt that it's time to make something right now. Even i put in FD is also better than that IMO but of course i knew my thinking is wrong.

And lastly, I think i should play the games where i know where my strength is. Share market and unit trust is not my strength but i might be more interested to learn on the share market where i got a closed friend that i can discuss face to face more easily.

I think at least now i know low risk fund would be more suitable for me. Learn from mistake i guess?

I don mind to wait another 2.5 years to recover/breakeven but during that time, i will be even more sad because i have invested the money there for 7.5 years and i just got back what i have invested and not even gain anything. That's why i really need some advice to make good use of that money and i don mind to even top up some money to make the situation better.

Investment in share market and unit trust really need a lot of knowledge like u guys here bro. All the guru-guru here ... Sigh ...

If you have moderate risk appetite, go for PIDF.

If you high risk appetitie, go for PFSF.

PRSF was a good performing fund, but the above two has out-perform PRSF.

The above are the funds under my radar currently.

Xuzen

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Added on August 17, 2012, 12:35 pmOh Howzat, you are darn good ...... at shifting the goal-post to skew your argument eh, brudder/sistah! You have a bright future as a sleazy politician.

OK, let'e put more realistic case under scrutiny:

Lets say two imaginary funds called Howzat's Sangat Shiok Fund and Xuzen Tahan Lama fund.

i) Sangat Shiok fund have a AER of 1.5% p.a. and guarantee a minimum return of 10%, and anything above that the fund manager will take a 20% performance fee. (Very typical of hedge fund)

ii) Tahan Lama fund is an idex fund with a AER of 0.1% and will market perform, and its objective is not to out-perform the benchmark.

Lets say both fund start of on 1-1-2012 with RM 100Million and on 31-12-2012 (one year later) Sangat shiok has a NAV of RM 120M (20% return) and Tahan Lama has RM 107M (7% return)

For ease of calculation, lets calculate the AER as on 31-12-2012.

Sangat Shiok AER will be RM 120M x 1.5% plus (RM120M-110M) x 20% = RM 1.8M + RM 2.0M = RM 3.80M

Tahan Lama AER will be RM 1.07M x 0.1% = RM 0.107K.

So the actual return net of fees for Sangat Shiok is RM 120M - 3.8M - 100M = RM16.2M

For Tahan Lama actual return net of fee is RM 107M - 0.107 - 100M = RM 6.893M

The profit margin for Sangat shiok is 16.2/120 x 100 = 13.5%

The profit margin for Tahan Lama is 6.893/107 x 100 = 6.44%
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now lets see how the funds turn out when the market down-turn.

Sangat shiok, dropped 20% and the NAV at end of one year is RM 80M.

Tahan lama dropped 7% to RM 93M

AER for Sangat shiok = RM 80 x 1.5% = RM 1.2M;

AER for Tahan Lama = RM93M x 0.1% = RM 0.093M

Hence the loss margin for Sangat shiok = RM (80M-1.2M-100M)/100M x 100 = negative 21.2%

As for Tahan Lama = RM (93-0.093-100)/100 x 100 = negative 7.09%

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So we can conclude that if you do not care about AER and only profit, you will have champange, song and women during the boom time. But when it is bearish environment, you will have none of these.

But if you keep and eye on AER, your capital is greater protected.

Xuzen

This post has been edited by xuzen: Aug 17 2012, 12:35 PM

You are bringing in a whole bunch of different factors that investors should consider before investing, and I'm not disputing any of that.

My initial response was to this question "How does 0.1% annual management fee sound to you? Still want to pay 1.5% AMF?"

My response was: "Yes, I would happily pay 1.5% AMF (and more) if the Fund Manager can return profits more than anyone else".

Note my conditional "IF the Fund Manager can return profits more than anyone else"?

In other words, I don't just look at the AMF alone by itself, I also consider the potential returns (profits), and what I believe the fund manager to be capable of. IF I don't believe the fund manager can return those profits in accordance with my risk profile, I wouldn't even be investing with them in the first place.

No problem Howzat,

We are here to share experiences and opinions. Should it does not benefit you, I wish other silence reader may benefit from the information presented.

I wish to comment a little on your bolded and red-coloured statement:

The uncertainty of IF can be greatly mitigated when a prudent investor has datas such as AER, the fund volatility, knowing one's risk appetite, the benchmark one is measuring against.

Put them into established equation, and compute it. Then compare amongst its peers and select the best risk-adjusted performing funds.

By doing so, it allows the prudent investor to beat the market consistently over time.

Xuzen