same here; only purchasing a certain bond fund - 0.25% charge.
KLCI still got legs and running up... missed the rally.

now you know! more people joining my private crusade!

Private Retirement Scheme. Why this new development when EPF can be more trusted as it is too big to fail? If you have hit the max ceiling for tax rebate, ask boss to slightly adjust salary by increasing employer's contribution since employer's contribution to EPF is not considered income and is tax free. I think it can be adjusted up to max of 19%.

Can be done, I meant none! My posting is usually based on personal experience.

The online option is better because it offers both Public and PB series of funds, while PM agent can only sell Public funds. Yeah, the service charge is still the same...

When purchasing online, you can also open double (or even triple) accounts on the same fund by selecting Initial Investment instead Additional Investment. I did it by selecting "none" instead of using the same agent's name.

don't feel sad...

DDI (Direct Debit Instruction). Never try this yet; if not mistaken, the only benefit is when the fund is launched, there is a small discount on the service charge (like 0.5%) when you put in the DDI during its introduction period.

If I remember correctly, you cut the DDI to PSmallcap and then it closed for new investment... right?
Why get hook up on DDI, when it is more convenient to do online purchases as and when we want. You can even do it now at night...

KLCI is really up, making new record today (and Olympics was over yesterday!). It is only good if you're trading in stocks (I think), but if we're investing for long term in UT, better to put any purchases on hold for the time being. DDI would be too automatic when it is best to put on hold new investments.

If you haven't done so yet, do apply for Mutual Online and PB e-bank to make purchases online in the meantime. PB e-bank is not really necessary if you have another e-bank account. The difference is that PB ebank has no online banking limits; the transaction limit is then based on your PB account balance.

Cheers.

another good tactic... still learning new lessons from our master sifu.

i think there's lots of other factors involved too since this is a PM thread; smaller gains okay with me if the fund house is still standing 10-20 years later.

some pretty good advices there...

----------------
And for clarity to other readers since there are so many funds in PM...
PIADF - Public Islamic Asia Dividend Fund
PFEDF - Public Far East Dividend Fund
PCSF - Public China Select Fund
PCIF - Public China Ittikal Fund

and PDSF - Public Dividend Select Fund.

Not sure which funds are making lost for you, but I suspect (depending on time of purchase and whether DDI or not) PIADF is a slight gain, PFEDF losing 15-20%, and both the China funds losing 20-25%.

All the 3 Dividend funds are classified as "moderate" funds, while the 2 China funds are "aggressive". PDSF is mainly "local" in that most of the its equity investments is in Malaysia.

PIDF (Public Islamic Dividend Fund), i concur too... one of the few funds that I held that were making gains.

i think PIOF is better.

rm75k/100k = rm1.25

fail maths

so now the maths is clear, when to top up or DDI is different, right?

my reply which i was about to post: "As to the last Q, I would prefer to register into the online service and do additional investments myself, and as the minimum additional investment is RM100, maybe take on both funds or either one depending on which fund's price goes lower."

Reason: Buy low, sell high.

---------------------
The longer version which I have typed and about to post:

I got hit almost as bad as you by PCSF and a large percentage of my total funds is also in china and far east funds. My PCSF lost ranges from 41-49%. (got to put up a brave front and smile!) The plus point is that the calculated lost is included the service charge. But fortunately, some other funds were making gains, so they lessen the blow. Anyway, it is paper lost as the game is still on and not over yet until we quit.

No matter how we fine tune and balance the funds we're holding, it will take some time to recover; it takes 5 years to come to the present situation... so maybe 2.5 years at the earliest to breakeven?

So at least with a certain time frame in mind, we can try to plan and not act too rashly in switching and balancing the funds when things don't seem to be moving or improving; and also in making new investments, especially in lump sums, to chase profits. The market can change directions in an instant, no one can be too sure.

As to the last Q, I would prefer to register into the online service and do additional investments myself, and as the minimum additional investment is RM100, maybe take on both funds or either one depending on which fund's price goes lower.

Cheers. Happy Investing.
And Selamat Hari Raya to all our muslim friends.

lucky you!

KLCI will hit 1660 anytime, and maybe can reach 1700, it's never too late to chase.

======================

PCSF

If not mistaken, the fund size of PCSF in its early years was over 0.5 billion... and since i last checked, it was about 300 million ringgit. From various posts in several other forums, it seemed that the advice is usually to cut lost and get out. This fund had seriously under-performed its benchmark, and with each withdrawal that will force the fund manager to liquidate at the wrong moment, it is hard to imagine the fund will perform any better in the near future.

It’s just my newbie/amateur opinion, what do you guys/gals think?

Anyone willing to put fresh money into it?
NAV is currently 0.1458; 37% gain if it goes up to 0.20.
71% if it goes back to initial 0.25.
If that's not attractive enough, its peak was above 0.28.

This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Aug 16 2012, 09:44 PM

You mean going directly into the share market? If you can lose 40% in unit trust, hope you don't lose your shirt and pants in shares.

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Added on September 1, 2012, 3:36 pmSomewhat true... if only we can pinpoint which is going to be the better performing fund, otherwise it's jumping from one fire to another. As for a bond fund, it can be too conservative... no risks, no gains.



This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Sep 1 2012, 03:36 PM

rightly said! sometimes no luck, and really no luck... take advise and tumpang the bet, as they say in chinese, tumpang the boat and sinks it.

So carry on the ride and hope sunk boat can turn into submarine. Must have holding power to survive, I meant must able to hold your breath under water.

Jump ship now and landed in nowhere land with small amount, or let it sink to bottom... at least you see the bottom.

nah, not hoping to strike it rich at the bottom... floating up again will do... and it will, even dead bodies will float up. It's a matter of how long you can stand the stench before giving up.

You mean PB Growth fund, which is closed except for investments out of EPF.
PB does has a handful of good funds, it all depends on how to balance the portfolio and not putting everything on the same type of fund. It is also important to know one's own risk appetite to get the right mix; took me more than 20 switches this year to settle down... maybe some of my previous posts in this thread could be helpful, look them up...


I have not log in for the past several weeks, and above makes me smile. "Quartered", if not mistaken, is what they used to do to pull the limbs apart from the body by using 4 horses. We can replace the horses with protons.

Below is last Friday's prices for the china funds. 'Nuf said.
28/9/2012 PUBLIC CHINA ITTIKAL FUND PCIF 0.1736 0.0006 0.35%
28/9/2012 PUBLIC CHINA SELECT FUND PCSF 0.1480 -0.0001 -0.07%
28/9/2012 PUBLIC CHINA TITANS FUND PCTF 0.2001 0.0003 0.15%

I think he meant whether EPF will re-balance the accounts after the withdrawal... I would assume it is not; since I don't have EPF online to check my account, can't give a definite answer.

By looking at the MGQP (mutual gold qualifying points); 1 ringgit for each point... on the account details tab within account inquiry...

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Added on December 21, 2012, 4:47 pmTo maintain the MGQP when we want to partially exit and do "re-purchase".

Whenever we switch a portion of a fund to another fund, the same amount of MGQP in ringgit terms will also be transfer to the new fund. This same amount of gold points in ringgit terms will also be deducted in a re-purchase.

As I have yet to do any re-purchase, can I do the following to retain the gold points in a re-purchase?

Fund A has increased in value. Say, bought at $10k, now it is $12k.
And I want to take out $2k and still maintaining the points at 10k.

1. Switch an appropriate amount of units equivalent to $10k to fund B.
2. Fund B is now holding 10k of points; and Fund A zero points.
3. Re-purchase Fund A and take out the balance 2k.

Am I correct?

===============
For Info/Update

Switching out of money market funds no longer has the 90 days penalty period of rm50 since last month.
Switching charges is rm25 regardless of the number of the days in the fund.

Good for short term 'trading' to switch into instead of using the usual bond funds, but need to be aware that switching out and jumping back into an equity fund, in a matter of days, will refresh the 90 days period in the equity fund...

Corrections:
Switching out within 90days a) equity funds 0.75% b) bond funds 0.25% c) money market funds rm50.

Note: When switching out of an equity fund into a money market fund AFTER 90 days, zero fee.



This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Dec 21 2012, 05:25 PM

1. Bond funds. You're right. Buying directly into a bond fund is low-loaded ie. meaning there is no high service charge of 3.0 - 5.5 %. You only incur a low service charge of 0.25%. And no gold points. The cost of the investment is the what you have paid in total.

For example recently I bought 20k at price of 1.2018 per unit and getting 16600.2 units after deduction of rm49.88 as service charge.

After some time, with changes to the unit price, plus dividend (if any) paid out which will change the number of units, it will not be easy to remember what you have paid, but it will be easy to figure out its cost if you always buy in neat round numbers of hundreds or thousands including the service charge; and let PM do the deduction for the service charge and calculate the number of units you are entitled to.

2. Yes, the gold points is 1 ringgit per point. Check your total points again, it should be correct. The total is what you have paid. If not mistaken, the total MGQP is what you paid in total inclusive of the service charge; rm1000 will get 1000 points.

For example, switched out from PNREF into PFEPRF (copied from PMO transaction history)
Fund NAV Amt Invested S/Charge Amount Paid (RM) Total Units
PNREF 0.2075 -10,859.91 00.00 -10,859.91 -52,336.92
PFEPRF 0.2862 10,834.91 25.00 10,859.91 37,857.83

The gold points transferred to PFEPRF was 10,860.

---

Added on December 22, 2012, 12:02 amUsing Excel to track the funds.

I'm using excel to record the transactions. And I find it easier to have 2 tabs - one tab showing a summary of all the funds, and in another tab, all the switching out transactions.

From the above switching example, I will record switching out of PNREF in the latter; together with the appropriate details like date bought, date switched, total units, NAV, etc.

To have lesser columns, I deducted the switching charge from the net amount ie. using rm10,834.91. In each line of the switching out record is the net gain (or net lost).

At the bottom-most line in that tab, is the total of the net gain (or net lost).

In the 1st tab, it is almost similar to the "summary of accounts" in PMO but with added columns like date purchased or switched in, number of days having the fund, the amount invested. etc. The total amount is on the last line, which should tally against the total amount in PMO.

For example,
Far-East Property & Resorts Fund 04-12-2012 16days 0.2862 RM10,834.91 37,857.83 0.2894 RM10,956.06


In the same 1st tab, the total gain (or net lost) from the 2nd tab is also on the cell just below the total amount. And a 3rd cell with a simple formula, will show the final gain (or lost) to-date.

My summary page is further enhance by grouping the funds accordingly to conservative, moderate, and aggressive; each grouping showing the group percentage of the total amount...

This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Dec 22 2012, 12:11 AM

1. You could try to total up all the gold points in each fund to see whether it tally with the total amount you have bought into balance and equity funds. (Remember that bond fund has no gold points unless you switch into it from a balance or equity fund.) If it does tally (and it should), then there is a mistake somewhere in tracing back how many points were transfer to each fund during all the switches you have done.

2. Is that a full switch or partial switch from PFES?
The gold points could be more than the amount switched in a full switch. Say, bought at 9k (with 9k of gold points), and current nav value is 7k. And fully switched all units to another fund. In our mind, we have incur a lost of 2k in the first fund, and now investing 7k in the new fund. But PMO does not reduce the total points unless it is a re-purchase. So 9k of points is transferred to new fund.

First, to get an idea what funds are EPF approved, take a look into the Public Mutual website... look into the fund prices, select "EPF" to narrow down the long list of funds... then look into the performance chart for that fund....

Anyway, the top 3 EPF-approved funds in Public Mutual in 2012:
1) Public Islamic Select Enterprises Fund (17.6%)
2) Public Focus Select Fund (16.7%)
3) Public Islamic Dividend Fund (16.5%)

(with corrections: Public Focus Select Fund is number 2... and pushes Public Islamic Equity Fund to 4th place.)


The top 3 local PM funds in 2012:
1) Public Islamic Select Enterprises Fund (17.6%)
2) Public Islamic Opportunities Fund (16.7%)
3) Public Focus Select Fund (16.7%)

The top 3 foreign PM funds in 2012:
1) Public Far-East Property & Resorts Fund (27.4%)
2) Public Singapore Equity Fund (19.3%)
3) Public South-East Asia Select Fund (16.6%)

All of them were above 15% for the year; with PFEPRF above 25%.

Now the big question: which fund will best perform in 2013?

---

Added on January 2, 2013, 5:14 pmThe top 5 PB series in 2012 (% from 1/1/12 to 28/12/12 or 31/12/12)
1) PB Singapore Advantage-30 Equity Fund (22.0%)
2) PB Asean Dividend Fund (21.3%)
3) PB Asia Real Estate Income Fund (18.7%)
4) PB Islamic Equity Fund (16.5%)
5) PB Islamic Asia Strategic Sector Fund (14.4%)

This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Jan 2 2013, 05:58 PM

From the performance chart... http://www.publicmutual.com.my/application...formancenw.aspx
and a bit of work... select date range from 1/1/12 to 31/12/12... go through the whole list of funds... and tabulate them.

Could also do a table on monthly, and quarterly increments... instead of waiting for out-dated reports... hopefully can see patterns showing which fund will go up or down LOL.

Happy 2013, Wong Sifu.

where is the agent? Have lost contact so long ago... nothing new-lah. DIY is better since you would understand the process.


The performance chart is based on the daily prices. All the annual charges are already incorporated into the daily price; otherwise it would be unfair to buy and then sell just before the financial year-end. In other words, since it is already incorporated in the daily price, the annual fees are immaterial when comparing funds from other companies.

But the % increment (or decrement) does not take into account the (high) service charge of 5.5% - which should be factored in if you're keeping track of your investments on your own.

================
NOTE:
If you're compiling the figures from the chart, take note of any distributions given out a day before. For example, distribution on 31st Dec for Focus Select Fund. The chart will be based on the updated price initially; and PMO will only adjust the distorted price percentage, due to the distribution, latter in the day, or the next day.

"Sell" as in cashing out or the proper term "re-purchase"? No. You will pay the service charge again when you re-enter. The recent posts and discussion is on why some are going elsewhere due to the high service charge.

What you should do is 'switching' - switch all or partially to a bond or money market fund. Read back a few pages, I have posted some comments on switching and switching fees.

Generally, unit trusts are for long term; and one of the better method is spreading out the purchase over a period of time (months) instead of making one big purchase. Hence with each purchase, there would be a positive thought; if price decrease, good since you're getting more units; if price increase, also good since the previous purchases have increased in value.

While it is prudent to take some money off the table when the market is high, it has to be cost effective since there are transaction costs such as switching fee. 3 things need to be aware of: the minimal fee, the minimum number of units allowed to switch, and whether the fund is more or less than 90 days since its purchase.

The minimum acceptable number of units to switch is 1000 units.
If the unit price is about rm0.30, then rm500 translate to about 1666.67 units.
If the unit price is about rm1.00, then rm500 or about 500 units is not enough to switch.

The unit price in a bond or money market fund is normally around rm1.00. So you may not be able to switch it back out after switching in....

Within 90 days of purchase, the minimal switching fee out of equity/bond fund is RM50.

Within 90 days, switching out of the following funds:
a) equity funds 0.75% or minimal RM50
b) bond funds 0.25% or minimal RM50
c) money market funds RM25.

After 90 days, switching out and into the following funds:
a) equity funds RM25
b) bond funds RM25
c) money market funds RM0.

At the present, there are a couple of bond funds that are performing worse than the money market fund... money market fund has lower returns than fixed deposits in a bank...

Switching into money market fund is like free money to Public Mutual... while the switch in cost is zero, switch out cost is RM25... which I think it is a bit excessive after giving PM "free" money.


This distribution 'profit' has been well discussed a few months ago...

The daily unit price or NAV price is a fluctuating price; unlike a fixed price fund like ASB.

NET as in Net Asset Value (NAV) means that all the operational costs, management fees, etc. has been taken into account when calculating the unit price every working day.

So it does not matter whether you purchase or sell after or before the financial year-end... if there is a distribution, no doubt the price will drop, but there is extra distributed units to even out the fall in price... the total value (number of units x unit price) is the same.