Who are the big 4?

PricewaterhouseCoopers
PwC (officially PricewaterhouseCoopers) is a global professional services firm headquartered in London, United Kingdom.[2] It is the world's second-largest professional services firm (after Deloitte) and one of the 'Big Four' accountancy firms.[5]
It has offices in 757 cities across 151 countries and employs over 163,000 people.[4][6] It had total revenues of $26 billion in 2009, of which $13 billion was generated by its Assurance practice, $7 billion by its Tax practice and $6 billion by its Advisory practice.[4]
The firm was formed in 1998 by a merger between Price Waterhouse and Coopers & Lybrand.[1] The trading name was shortened to PwC in September 2010 as part of a major rebranding exercise.[7]
As of 2009 it was the eighth largest privately-owned organisation in the United States.[8]
PricewaterhouseCoopers Website


Ernst & Young
Ernst & Young (EY) is one of the largest professional services firms in the world and one of the Big Four auditors, along with Deloitte, KPMG and PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC).
Ernst & Young is a global organization of member firms in more than 140 countries. Its global headquarters are based in London, UK and the U.S. firm is headquartered at 5 Times Square, New York, New York.[3]
As of 2009, it is ranked by Forbes magazine the 10th largest private company in the United States.[4]


Deloitte
Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu Limited (also branded as Deloitte) is the largest professional services organization in the world.[2] According to the organization's website as of 2010, Deloitte has approximately 170,000 staff at work in more than 150 countries, delivering audit, tax, consulting, enterprise risk, and financial advisory services through its member firms.
Its global headquarters is located in Paramount Plaza, Midtown Manhattan, New York City, New York.[3]


KPMG
KPMG is one of the largest professional services firms in the world and one of the Big Four auditors, along with Deloitte, Ernst & Young (EY) and PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC). Its global headquarters are located in Amstelveen, Netherlands.[1]
KPMG employs 140,000 people[3] and has three lines of services: audit, tax, and advisory.


Firm / Revenues /Employees/Fiscal Year/Headquarters/Source
Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu $26.578bn 170,000 2010 United States [1]
PwC (officially PricewaterhouseCoopers) $26.569bn 162,000 2010 United Kingdom [2]
Ernst & Young $21.255bn 141,000 2010 United Kingdom [3]
KPMG $20.11bn 135,000 2009 The Netherlands [4]

only 10k?

This post has been edited by limshenghong: Dec 24 2010, 03:04 AM

Virtualization Engineer with 6 years experience at senior level can gain 15K plus monthly average...

Heh, no one ever said it was a financially rewarding job. That is just an impression our parents have because 20 years ago it was better than what they had. It's a totally different ball game now.

anyone being sponsored by the big4 to do acca?

and senior manager rm10k only with 8-10years of experience? hmmm

Which focus area of virtualization? Server or desktop or both? 15K is probably equivalent to a 4 years experience in Sgp so it is not much.

I'm not sure about the other Big4 but EY does sponsor ACCA for its employees. The draw back is you must attend classes at Sunway College on the weekends and you have a bond. Applicants should clarify with the propesctive firm what they sponsor and what are the conditions.

For EY, do you know when the bond will officially starts? Let say 4 years bond, so the bond starts when the ACCA classes start?

Thanks..

anyone here from KPMG? i would like to pm to ask something....

Why need to PM to ask?

because it involve some contact number, is it ok to post it here?


Edited:

I was called by KPMG for tax assistant position, may i know the procedures of the interview? I had gone through the KPMG assessment and interview for audit position, are they same with tax position assessment and interview procedures?

This post has been edited by devil86: Dec 9 2010, 10:22 AM

No idea, sorry.

i have a friend who interview in kpmg tax department based on her statement the interview procerdure were as follow : ask u write an essay,give u 10min to calculate math question without calculator and ask some technical question that all.

My friend had to do essay questions and tax computation. Then interview...this is Penang branch though.

How's all the other firms coming along in terms of staffing? PwC Assurance is suffering massive staff shortages presently, with all the resignees timing their resignation just before the superpeak starts.

Does anyone know what type of health issues KPMG is looking out for from the pre-emplyment health screening? What would make them not offer you the job?

Some stress related syndromes, I think? But as far as I know they have not rejected anyone due to health screenings.

How short is your shortage? I thought due to the Singapore pull factor, the firm will be doing massive recruitment of new staff

They just want to see whether your BMI fits the 'acceptable' criteria and also see whether your have the physical power to work late everyday

Jokes aside, severe cases such as being colour blind, partial disability in limbs could hinder your chances of joining the firm.

How does colour blind affect someone's ability to do work? You mean can't drive around to clients' offices?

Can't differentiate green ticks and red ticks

Regarding the med check up, i think they wanna test you whether you have any disease in ur DNAs. So that next time when you suffer from serious illness (ie diabetic), they/the medical coverage won't be covering your medical bills.

Exam season. Pretty damn quiet these days

Yeah. Results gonna out in 2 months time. Then lots of new recruits.

May i know when is the recruitment period?

><, just curious, around this time is peak season ady? or approaching peak?

in EY/KPMG now is getting peak and FS (those with bank negara submissions), now should be quite peak.

For the rest of us, Jan-April is considered the peak.... But again, highly depends on the client portfolio you have.

This thread actually made it version 2, lol.

Anyone in PwC know the pay for a newly promoted Senior in Audit? With or without allowance. I'm guessing that with 2 years of experience it would be close to 4k?

3.8k
Allowance depends on da dept you're in, crisis=allowances.

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Added on December 18, 2010, 11:32 pmIJM getting close to peak

This post has been edited by limshenghong: Dec 24 2010, 03:05 AM

Next 2 week should be peak season for stocktakes, brrr. Solo again.

And next year becos earlier CNY date for 3 Feb 2011............dont want to think about it.

Get Chinaman company, then sure whole week off for their staff

Bless all those who got stocktakes on Christmas and New Year days

It's been a year eh. Scary. still remember I had a stocktake in Klang on new year's eve. Half day though.

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This post has been edited by michelle_p: Dec 21 2010, 04:43 PM

I have a link to share with you guys,how much can you relate with the comments posted?
http://audit.wordpress.com/2006/11/10/holy...s-really-sucks/

I hope this is not too personal,but how many of you have actual career plans and goals?As by reading of the comments posted on the link above,most seem to just want to grind in out in order to have BETTER PROSPECTS,but it seems that most could not define what 'better prospects' seems to them.

How does this sound to you- accumulating work experience in the big 4(while earning my CPA title in Singapore) and later branching out to a non-profit organization which I could really relate to as a finance manager?

hey i have applied for the position as tax assistant/associate in deloitte n kpmg but there is no reply fr them. Any1 noe when is the intake month for tax position in deloitte n kpmg?

Anyone have any ideas who should i put as referee for job application, i just graduated from australian university, the lecturer seems to be reluctant to be a referee since he don't really knows me well

The thin line between joy and despair. Stocktake on 31 dec = half day, can go celebrate countdown. Stocktake on 1 Jan = Wake up early, most probably can't countdown and keep thinking "why am I doing here in a rundown warehouse while others are still drooling in their sleep"

Your tutor perhaps? Or if you have done any internship before, just get your ex-manager/supervisor/senior to be your referee.

Well.. there is no intake month in Deloitte (if i'm not wrong ) they need ppl all the time..

i thought peak used to be Jan-March, now April included? ><

on the other hand, anyone got free stuff from client before because of stocktake?

just finished my last 3papers recently.. i'm not too sure if i can make it and i do not have obu.. i can only be considered as partially qualified right? any chance of getting hired by one of the firms if i apply now?

Obsolete stock I guess.
Normally its deep discount or vouchers lo.

Hello everyone!
I am a fresh grad and received offers from these 3 firms as an audit associate.
Basically, all firms give the almost identical starting pay, employee benefits and etc.

But im in dilemma on which offer should I accept.
Any advise on which firm to choose and the reason for it?

Thanks in advance!

PwC. Wins hands down.

Lol dayumn all Financial Auditors here

Hahaha hard pressed to find an IT advisory dude like urself here Not all of us know about the kinds of things u do

can anybody tell me,except big 4,other medium firm or big 5 got sponsor for acca part 2 student anot?

yup stock take until 2 am..haha..

horward hv sponsor but bond 3 year

probably how long did they review the Cv , today i juz send the cv to PWC...If successful , is it interview is a must.. Any people have some good suggestion how to do well in interview?

This post has been edited by lavender27: Dec 23 2010, 07:54 PM

Just heard that EY planning to introduce peak allowance and got salary revision. Previously, dun think got such allowance....anyone know how long they are planning to give such allowance?

wow =D

I cannot understand why all the accounting graduate flock to join the big 4 then complain after 2 years that there is no worklife balance. I mean isn't it implied that you will have no worklife balance and treated slightly better than a mule if you joined the big 4 for at least in the 1st 5 years of your career? I'm sorry to say this but if you could not stand the hours then don't go to a big 4. Join the commercial sector. The pay may be crap at first but there is a career prospects (unless you want to be a partner in the big 4). Pay in big 4 is good but when you finally decided you have enough of late nights, many take drastic pay cut to join the commercial sector.

Many DON'T take drastic pay cuts or pay cuts at all, unless they were itchy and joined something not related to finance.

To those who are just looking for a job with pays well and surprisngly linear enough, become a manager in b4 then move to a finance role (M, FCs, Internal Audit etc.). Pay cuts will be extremely rare barring the fact the person has bad nego skills. Most gets a decent pay rise instead.This is a faster method then just staying in the organisation itself in the back-office trying to move up.

It is when you try to move to the front-line roles from external audit, that's where the paycut comes in.

This post has been edited by Sesshoumaru: Dec 24 2010, 08:53 PM

Aside from internal audit most companies are reluctant to hire Audit Managers with a pay rise or even on par for FM positions and above because audit managers have no hands-on experience in actually doing the AP/AR/GL, month end closing, management reporting, etc. Auditing and doing the accounts is 2 different thing unless they are willing to join as accountant(i.e. lower rank) in most MNC

They may or may not be reluctant, but in the end if the auditor is any smart he'll get the job with a payrise. All my colleagues left with a good payrise. At the very least, it is just matching salaries because these companies know that offering a paycut is never the solution. The auditor will just reject it.

If you tell me that even when moving to commercial, you get a paycut, then the whole point of slugging it out in the audit firms is not justified.

Here are some examples of people I know personally who made to the following positions when moving.

M-> M in Internal Audit, local anchor bank.
SM -> GM finance in a foreign bank.
M -> SM finance, local anchor bank.

This post has been edited by Sesshoumaru: Dec 24 2010, 09:08 PM

Dude, Banks are different breed altogether. I'm formely from a bank and we have nuclear scientist and mechanical engineeris in various functions in a bank. Waht i meant is the commercial world. i.e. accountigna and finance for names like microsoft, apple, etc

Banking is also commercial. But I understand you are taking it from that point of view. I highly doubt you are wrong again, but I can't back it up firmly yeah =). Anyone who played their cards right wouldn't be taking drastic paycuts, or even minor paycuts anyhow.

stock taking today haha...

Peak allowance not really sure but reason could be they anticipate lots of people leaving on 2011, so its for those that chose to remain. Salary revision only affect juniors I heard. Technically I rather have more eligibility of my annual leave claim than the allowance. Manager book staff like there is no tomorrow. Sigh....

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Added on December 25, 2010, 11:19 pmEven within big4, there is different layers one. Some dept or team suffered more than the others especially dealing with additional stuffs like tight deadline reporting, "problematic" clients, "tight" partner/manager,......etc. Not to mention for additional work like IPO, M&A, special purpose, liquidation,......etc. Big4 many fanboys will say its a place where they train you not only for free, they pay as well. But can you stomach it ? Egoistic asians will most likely say with a big YES.

Oh big4 does not pay well for salary / hour ratio. Even worse than McDonald workers.

This post has been edited by Topace111: Dec 25 2010, 11:19 PM

With the entry level positions self fulfilling and if it is only for juniors, I really don't see why there needs to be a revision.
Of course, it would be better with it. I'm not surprised on what you said about the salary/hour ratio, my cousin is in there.

How was EY's annual dinner? KLCC is pretty nice. Don't think anywhere else is better..

Actually that is right. But isn't there an assistant finance manager that helps (normally experienced). Its because finance manager directly reports to financial controller/CFO like budgeting, forecasting, analysis of GP, .......etc. And AP/AR/GL,...... normally got their own accoutant to supervise which reports to finance manager, s(he) only have to review it for significant movements or errors. I think most MNC have shared service centre ? then its even easier transition.

Problem is commercial and audit is quite different. Auditors have a very specific line of responsibility but commercial is undefined. The worse part of commercial is you need to get your hands dirty and roll up your sleeve. Some if not most very into auditing will find this difficult to stomach.

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Added on December 25, 2010, 11:37 pmAmbience is quite ok but food average lo. I think almost everyone spend lavishly to "sell" themselves.
Its just that the principle of working hard = spend hard and play hard also.
Definitely not a "cheap" dinner by any means, especially from the feminine point of view.

This post has been edited by Topace111: Dec 25 2010, 11:37 PM

dear all..

would like to enquire about this "advisory" thingy...what is it about?

Q1: some say that it is related to internal audit...is it?..or is it more about management accounting?...

Q2: and among the Big 4, which offers it?..all Big 4 got this department?...

pls help to advice me about this.

Quoted for truth. Except someone who is desperate to leave for unconventional reasons.

No one I know who has left the firm I used to work for, including myself, settled for less than what we were getting. The main motivation to leave the firm is dissatisfaction with pay. Unless of course, you happen to have a very antagonistic relationship with your boss or some family issues like needing more time for kids.

And that comment about companies being reluctant to hire auditors for positions other than internal auditors isn't accurate either, but that's his opinion.

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Added on December 27, 2010, 9:46 amAdvisory is a very broad category of services. Basically its about providing "advice" to clients or providing answers to difficult questions they have on specific issues (corporate restructuring, tax issues, financing, risk management, infrastructure, anything under the sun lol). Is there a particular type of advisory work you are interested in?

This post has been edited by CKJMark: Dec 27 2010, 09:46 AM

is Finance manager like Management Accountant leh? FM should be ppl from accountants not auditors. Auditors don't know anything about business

can some experienced wise person that worked in big4, be honest about how is the peak period gonna be like?

work from 8am-1am from Monday to Sunday continuously from Jan until April?

Haha enlighten us please.

anyone have been shortlisted by KMPG Singapore?

did you guys know what is the test all about?

can anyone enlighten me?

As we've kept emphasized on, it largely depends on your job (how sucks is your job) and your senior (how much are they willing to take on the responsibility). There are some group of staff in my department who works from 8am to 3am from Monday to Sunday for 3, 4 months. Their luck is bad as they got a tough client.

5hours of rest (includes drive back, eat, bathe sleep, wake up again) for 3-4 months? Doesnt sound logical, but u must be serious. Gosh.

It's easier to say that u can do it in the interview.
But when u are in the audit team, u will know that words are cheap

Fact of the matter is that working in audit GENERALLY is about having to take the long hours(if you're the lucky few who gets to knock off sharp then good for you but the vast majority don't). Funny how I have a candidate telling me she wants an audit job with a big 4 firm, how she's willing to do this and that but wants to go home sharp at 6 p.m. Laugh my socks-off. Told her that will only happen when hell freezes over..... hahaha

anyone experienced any notorious staff?

How do u define notorious?

Plenty. I'm one myself. I made people resign before. Wanna try?

what are your ways of making ppl resign? do share here to give ppl some ideas what to expect.

Let's just say the 'resignation' was an 'outcome'. It's not something I deliberately planned to do, but the process of how we work, contributed to it.

1. Work late hours. (duh. if you're not smart, be ready to put in the hours to make up for it) You may think it's not a big deal. You've partied and studied long hours. Well, nothing's prepared you for this. The long hours will grind you, strangle you, and slowly bore itself into you like water eroding away the shore. The sheer volume of work will find away to drive you restless, and it will cause you to lose sleep, even when you have time for it. And as time ticks away, and the stress and late hours start to creep onto your face...

2. Expected to learn fast, and be ready to be corrected. (generally from what I observe, most people feel stupid and useless after working with me (not deliberately, just that i talk too fast)...) And when you're not used to getting told that you're wrong, that you've made mistakes etc, you'll crack. Slowly. Inferiority complex will start creeping in, and you'll start having an existential crisis wondering what did you dug yourself into. You'll ask whether accounting is right for you....

3. Have some f*cking business/common sense. (not something that can be taught, but be prepared to get some snide remarks from your clients and your bosses when u ask something that has no common sense) This usually comes with the above.

4. Watching your batchmates who can't endure as well as you, leave.
You'll start to feel lonely. You'll feel as if everyone's out to get you.

So ThanatosSwiftfire, how long do you plan to stay in Audit line under Big4?

Oh well, the Big 4 thread, just joined one of the Big 4 and already 2011 is greeted with salary revision for fresh grad in EY and KPMG

You maybe right on that, but just curious.
What is the difference between a financial accoutant and management accountant in the first place ?

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Added on January 1, 2011, 11:28 pmEmm technically I prefer to work from after normal office hours. Thats why I like outstation jobs. Factory close sharp at 6pm and have to work from hotel whereas in KL, most organization can stay until midnight. Feels more motivated to work in 2 different environment. Of course its easier said than done. But if that staff can deliver her work even if she leaves at 6pm, I dont mind such people also.

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Added on January 1, 2011, 11:56 pmHa ha ha, you summarized them quite well and "honestly' too .
I also want to add some flavor too :
1) Work late hours is expected but it could be due to several reasons :
- Inefficiency : happens a lot during my first few months.
- workload : the quantity aspect will really take a toll as this is where your multitasking skill will be tested.
- analysis : the quality aspect which depends on individual, this depends on the company audited. Some are easy, some are not.
- time cost : every auditor dislike this one except the partners and client.

2) Steep learning curve :
A junior needs to know a lot of things about audit (theory + practical) before they can even start audit. Vouching and sighting is just the very brief surface of audit. And most must swallow their ego on these. I get tons of beating and scolding during my probation period as I come in with higher expectation maybe due to age or education or whatever. Once adjusted and adapt accordingly, things will get very natural. My "eureka" for audit comes quite quickly hence I face less problem as the period progressed compared to others.

3) Logic
This is mainly can be seen from analytical review (internal) and interview (external). For me this is my forte area compared to my technical side, to me its important to be prepared and arm yourselves with sufficient ammunition. In short you have to start learning to "cover your act". One of the most important weapon of any auditors. I always try to be friendly with client if possible (which can enlarge your networking)

4)..........
I really hate this part, watching departures....... Just recently I watched half of my team left just before peak period.......... This is the part that Big4 will start to get into you. Quite funny or irony that everyone I saw, they left with a smile on their face.

Now waiting for the year end MA to be released and its hell all over again

This post has been edited by Topace111: Jan 1 2011, 11:56 PM

Not long

If I not mistaken, peak allowance is given from Jan - April 2011 and will be paid lump sum in the month of April...Partners came up with this action because most of the seniors in Assurance Dept are not satisfied with their bonus practice...All this while, bonus is paid 60% in December and the remaining 40% in March...however, in 2009, they started to pay fully in October stating that it is to follow Far East branches...Now, in 2010, EY has changed back to old policy to retain most of their workers believing that their employees will go thru the peak with them if 40% of bonus is paid in March...With this, seniors are not satisfied and filed for petition to obtain answer from partner...I believe the salary revision is also an act to keep their staffs with them...I doubt the peak allowance and salary revision will have a huge jump...

Anyone can share EY TCE working culture and client type. By the way, how many years EY bond their staff for ACCA sponsor (3 years or 4 years).

Dats y I am not in audit anymore. I dun like the new person I am turning into.

Can someone enlighten bout the closing date for job application for each of the firm?

Throughout the year. You can sent in your resume (EY and deloitte) or apply through their online application system(PwC and KPMG) anytime.

Dear all,

Smth to ask here..im a fresh grad with 2nd upper in commerce.
Do i qualified to apply in PWC?? is their requirement high??

Emm highly depends whether you are working under a she or he. Acca = 3 years. TCE is basicly a rojak industry. The 3 biggest client makes up the T.C.E name.

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Added on January 2, 2011, 11:42 pmTheir argument is, how can you recognize only 60% of our effort ? A lot will leave soon and I think this will be the easiest exit interview.

This post has been edited by Topace111: Jan 2 2011, 11:42 PM

60/40 when the rest of the sister firms in the region pays 100% is rubbish. So much for regional management.

The salary revision and peak allowance is nice, particularly for junior staff, but I doubt it will be significant to make you change your mind about leaving if you want to leave. Will it be easy to claim the peak allowance? Right now AABS staff already have problems claiming overtime and meal allowances as it is.

This post has been edited by CKJMark: Jan 3 2011, 09:21 AM

Interestingly, I heard fresh new joiners are getting close to 3k in EY/KPMG. Anyone can confirm these hearsays?

as i know, in kl-ey is offer rm2450 for fresh gradutes
while deloitee offer rm2500 for fresh gradutes for degree holder

The last batch that joined was RM2450. But I heard there is a salary revision underway, actual quantum not confirmed yet.

Maybe the RM3K batch are those with professional qualifications?

how about IBM salary range for Fresh Grad?

if have 5 year experince in small firm for tax do you guy think those big will to pay 3k

Sure why not. But why want to waste ur life further?

guys, what is the interview process for BDO?
any test included?
is there particular things i should be notice before i go interview at BDO?

Depends largely on how you negotiate your package and how you 'sell' your experience.

The number of years of service is not a real indication of experience. For example, I once worked with an employee that had 4 yrs experience in Labuan tax who could not handle even the most basic of tax computations outside of Labuan legislation.

Typically, Big 4 firms try to discount your experience from small/medium firms as "inadequate" and offer you a salary below their internal band, or at the lower end of the band. I've seen people who are more senior than me come in with below average salaries because they are not from Big 4 firms. They think very highly of themselves whether its justified or not.

When I talk about "experience", I don't mean just your experience doing tax comps, but your experience in other fields of tax work (i.e. advisory, appeals, audit negotiations, etc) and your experience managing staff (I assume with 5 years service you should be a senior level employee already).

You should check what is the market rate for your level of experience in Big 4, and negotiate from there. How much you secure depends on how valuable they think your experience will be, and how well you negotiate.

This post has been edited by CKJMark: Jan 4 2011, 05:46 PM

definitely more than 2450 at KPMG but I don't think it is considered close to 3k yet not to me anyway

More than 2450, less than 3k in KPMG for freshies. Can only confirm final figures once payslip is out but definitely there is a revision of salary starting 2011. PwC didn't revise is it?

I heard EY pay high bonus !

I thought labuan tax is either Rm20000 or 3% of audited net profit whichever is lower ? Dont know about all la but sound straight forward to me compared to MYS tax. Of course its harder for them to convert into MYS tax.

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Added on January 5, 2011, 12:07 amThat is Singapore standards for all big4, hence many jump there ady. Salary revision only effective on month of January 2011. Either way, if anyone decide to leave, the money won't change much especially the seniors.

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Added on January 5, 2011, 12:12 amBonus is not obligatory but many doubt its sincerity.

Meal allowance is easy to claim and approved but just adequate.
OT is easy to claim but on the part of approval, highly depends on the booking schedule and the engagement.

This post has been edited by Topace111: Jan 5 2011, 12:12 AM