Protoss Discussion Thread Ver. 1, [SEASON 2] Tips & Strategies.
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 Aug 2 2010, 08:47 PM, updated 15y ago
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#1
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135 posts Joined: Sep 2007 
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 Since there's no thread yet for a particular race discussion, so I'm just creating one. Everyone who has Protoss as their favourite race can discuss about the tips and strategies here. And if you're a Protoss user, please do leave your nick and ID too.  Will try to update this thread with tips and strategies too shared by everyone. This post has been edited by incx: Apr 10 2011, 07:28 AM |
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Aug 2 2010, 08:49 PM
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#2
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135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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 Unit Counters for Protoss vs. Zerg. Credits to -ZeN-. For Starters: The Trusty 4 Gates. Credits to Cheesenium. » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « Day[9]'s 4 Gate Warp Styles. » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « Protoss vs. Zerg: Tips On Early Zergling, Baneling, Roach and Muta Rushes and Mass Hydras. Credits to JuzJoe. » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « Protoss vs. Protoss: Against 4 Gates Build. Credits to JuzJoe. » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « Countering Marines and Marauders Tutorial. » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « Countering Proxy Barrack Reaper Bunker Rush. Credits to JuzJoe. » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « Void Ray Rush. » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « Phoenix Rush. » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «  Sinatra vs .Jimmy - ESL Finals » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « Husky vs. HDstarcraft » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « David Kim vs. NonY » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « Huk vs. MorroW: Game 1 & Game 2 » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « [ REPLAY FILES] QUOTE(Quazacolt's Files.) » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « QUOTE(Calvin Seak's Files.) » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « QUOTE(Eilrach's Files.) » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « This post has been edited by incx: Apr 27 2011, 03:22 PM |
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Aug 2 2010, 08:59 PM
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#3
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1,185 posts Joined: Aug 2005 
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void ray rush ftw!
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Aug 2 2010, 09:02 PM
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#4
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5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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might want to close/lock thread if you wanna reserve more posts.
(mod may delete/move this if TS needs more space) anyways, my favorite race is definitely protoss, and i play toss more during sc1. however with sc2, considering all 3 races are pretty fun, im a random player  |
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Aug 2 2010, 09:03 PM
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#5
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2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(ahtiven @ Aug 2 2010, 08:59 PM) void ray rush ftw! i'm against voidray rushes... even with fazing, its still a big risk to rush it... |
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Aug 2 2010, 09:06 PM
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#6
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Apparently battle.net players had been saying that void ray rushes are for bronze league players.
 @Quaz, so far 2 posts would be enough I guess. Will make it concise and precise. This post has been edited by incx: Aug 2 2010, 09:07 PM |
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Aug 2 2010, 09:33 PM
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#7
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 2 2010, 09:06 PM) Apparently battle.net players had been saying that void ray rushes are for bronze league players. fair enough.@Quaz, so far 2 posts would be enough I guess. Will make it concise and precise. FYI: i void rush despite being a platter wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww why i did it still? well on this particular scrap station map.... i scouted the guy, hes not in his base. the rest is history. LOL |
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Aug 2 2010, 09:50 PM
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#8
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1,185 posts Joined: Aug 2005
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void ray rush can definitely win u games. bronze or diamond.
a strategy is a strategy. no matter how cheap it is. |
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Aug 2 2010, 09:54 PM
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#9
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QUOTE FYI: i void rush despite being a platter wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww EPIC lolwhy i did it still? well on this particular scrap station map.... i scouted the guy, hes not in his base. the rest is history. LOL sometime i do voidray ....but not really rush .....i scouted he sending Terran, attking me with his marine and marauder... i got 2 sentry in base. so what i did is basically block the path to my base with sentry and slowly harass base using voidray (work for Desert Oasis for me : ) ) my B.O for this tactic » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « |
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Aug 2 2010, 10:00 PM
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5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(ahtiven @ Aug 2 2010, 09:50 PM) void ray rush can definitely win u games. bronze or diamond. ^a strategy is a strategy. no matter how cheap it is. this. |
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Aug 2 2010, 11:07 PM
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59 posts Joined: May 2009
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QUOTE(ahtiven @ Aug 2 2010, 08:59 PM) void ray rush ftw! Not a fan of this tactic. Used it a few times, won some games. It just doesn't feel like I was playing with skills. |
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Aug 2 2010, 11:11 PM
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I find void ray rush is a gamble. My 2 cents.
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Aug 2 2010, 11:12 PM
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2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Instinct @ Aug 2 2010, 11:11 PM) I find void ray rush is a gamble. My 2 cents. yup...dun rush for it unless wut u scouted support it... like a marauder heavy terran force... |
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Aug 2 2010, 11:14 PM
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5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(Mio4Ever @ Aug 2 2010, 11:07 PM) Not a fan of this tactic. Used it a few times, won some games. It just doesn't feel like I was playing with skills. Bad rays obviously don't take skill.good ones are a different story.I mean, whitera uses rays to rush too.does that mean he no skill? |
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Aug 2 2010, 11:40 PM
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2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 2 2010, 11:14 PM) Bad rays obviously don't take skill.good ones are a different story.I mean, whitera uses rays to rush too.does that mean he no skill? well white-ra do rushed after he scouted his opponent (and if the map support it)...and fazing needs lots of skill >.< not to mention the sacrifical phoenix/ charge at ur own building then fly to ur opponent base keeping the charge up micro... those are really really micro intensive (i failed at the last one lol) |
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Aug 2 2010, 11:45 PM
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 2 2010, 11:14 PM) Bad rays obviously don't take skill.good ones are a different story.I mean, whitera uses rays to rush too.does that mean he no skill? Exactly why Whitera keeps losing. His play style is too predictable, always go for voids. But he certainly has skill, no doubt about that. |
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Aug 2 2010, 11:51 PM
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1,314 posts Joined: Oct 2009 From: Cheras, KL
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Nony's phoenix rush/harrass transition into gateways play. PvZ
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Aug 3 2010, 12:30 AM
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2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Mio4Ever @ Aug 2 2010, 11:45 PM) Exactly why Whitera keeps losing. His play style is too predictable, always go for voids. But he certainly has skill, no doubt about that. not really...he's been really successful wit his void ray play... on major tournaments he still whoop TLO... |
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Aug 3 2010, 04:47 AM
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5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 2 2010, 11:40 PM) well white-ra do rushed after he scouted his opponent (and if the map support it)... I'm too lazy to bother loland fazing needs lots of skill >.< not to mention the sacrifical phoenix/ charge at ur own building then fly to ur opponent base keeping the charge up micro... those are really really micro intensive (i failed at the last one lol) Added on August 3, 2010, 4:49 am QUOTE(Mio4Ever @ Aug 2 2010, 11:45 PM) Exactly why Whitera keeps losing. His play style is too predictable, always go for voids. But he certainly has skill, no doubt about that. See, the thing is he don't always go rays and even if he does he don't always loseThis post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 3 2010, 04:49 AM |
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Aug 3 2010, 06:26 AM
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Dark templars in this game feel kinda useless now since most experienced players will always have a detectors .. so sad... they used to be my fav unit for harrassing and guarding unoccupied mineral fields ..
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Aug 3 2010, 07:46 AM
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135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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I hardly use DTs nowadays, just like what you said. I only use it when I've scouted and the opponent's base. If not, it's just sending them for suicide, and building them is not cheap.
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Aug 3 2010, 07:53 AM
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280 posts Joined: Dec 2004
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any of u like to fast expand against zerg? is it recomended?
This post has been edited by fizyboy: Aug 3 2010, 07:55 AM |
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Aug 3 2010, 08:34 AM
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Senior Member
2,657 posts Joined: Feb 2008 From: Highbury House, 75 Drayton Park, London
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How do u probably use the sentry - force field & guardian shield? its like been a week and i hardly ever use sentry lol
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Aug 3 2010, 08:37 AM
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2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(InkySliwinky @ Aug 3 2010, 06:26 AM) Dark templars in this game feel kinda useless now since most experienced players will always have a detectors .. so sad... they used to be my fav unit for harrassing and guarding unoccupied mineral fields .. not really...DTs are good if u scout ur opponent not having detectors... even when they have, u can still put a tonne of harassment... dun mass DTs but instead get like 3 of em and spread em out... it will thin out the opponent's army or isolate em... i've seen tonnes of high lvl play with DTs and i think that they are really good even if ur opponent have detection... |
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Aug 3 2010, 09:43 AM
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5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(InkySliwinky @ Aug 3 2010, 06:26 AM) Dark templars in this game feel kinda useless now since most experienced players will always have a detectors .. so sad... they used to be my fav unit for harrassing and guarding unoccupied mineral fields .. i just got DT dropped. my ally wasnt quite useful so meh >.>point being, DTs arent useless lol. Added on August 3, 2010, 9:44 am QUOTE(fizyboy @ Aug 3 2010, 07:53 AM) any of u like to fast expand against zerg? is it recomended? hard as they can easily zergling/baneling/muta harassThis post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 3 2010, 09:44 AM |
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Aug 3 2010, 09:47 AM
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Senior Member
1,314 posts Joined: Oct 2009 From: Cheras, KL
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What do you guys think about battlecruisers counter? From what i encounter, almost every game, once terran start to have battlecruisers, its hard to counter it, any solutions?
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Aug 3 2010, 09:48 AM
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5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(ericpires @ Aug 3 2010, 08:34 AM) How do u probably use the sentry - force field & guardian shield? its like been a week and i hardly ever use sentry lol guardian shield is winrar so if i feel like playing with zealots (as they dont take gas) ill mix up some sentries. only time i dont use em at all, is me stalker focused (no zealots too). and thats what i do typically hahaAdded on August 3, 2010, 9:48 am QUOTE(kEazYc @ Aug 3 2010, 09:47 AM) What do you guys think about battlecruisers counter? From what i encounter, almost every game, once terran start to have battlecruisers, its hard to counter it, any solutions? you kill him before he get a single cruiser outThis post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 3 2010, 09:48 AM |
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Aug 3 2010, 09:50 AM
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QUOTE(kEazYc @ Aug 3 2010, 09:47 AM) What do you guys think about battlecruisers counter? From what i encounter, almost every game, once terran start to have battlecruisers, its hard to counter it, any solutions? Well, void rays are the most effective counter imo. Or blink stalkers.Get HT for feedback so he cant 1 shot you with his yamato lolol. |
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Aug 3 2010, 09:59 AM
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1,185 posts Joined: Aug 2005
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DTs are mainly used for harassment imho. but of cos if they succeeded. the match is in your favor.
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Aug 3 2010, 10:38 AM
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353 posts Joined: Feb 2005
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@kc - againts BC i think Mio is right, feedback play very important row, just like ghost plan important role against protoss. but void ray is also good. Since u can feedback them, then chrage up all ur void ray on 1, then when fully charge u can easily killed a feedbacked BC. also, void ray can shoot and run right?
Added on August 3, 2010, 10:39 amo thought i contribute something over here, since basically i like protoss also. PvZ: http://www.starcraft-replay.com/guides/sta...-zerg-units.php This post has been edited by -ZeN-: Aug 3 2010, 10:39 AM |
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Aug 3 2010, 11:12 AM
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1,314 posts Joined: Oct 2009 From: Cheras, KL
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QUOTE(-ZeN- @ Aug 3 2010, 10:38 AM) @kc - againts BC i think Mio is right, feedback play very important row, just like ghost plan important role against protoss. but void ray is also good. Since u can feedback them, then chrage up all ur void ray on 1, then when fully charge u can easily killed a feedbacked BC. also, void ray can shoot and run right? If you're talking about move + shoot at the same time for void rays, from what i know, only phoenix can be done at the moment, if you move your voidrays while its charging up, it will stop attacking, but the charges will remain like 3-5 seconds.Added on August 3, 2010, 10:39 amo thought i contribute something over here, since basically i like protoss also. PvZ: http://www.starcraft-replay.com/guides/sta...-zerg-units.php |
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Aug 3 2010, 11:41 AM
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What i think is the perfect counter to BC is
Defending : to charge your void rays on any building, gateways preferably to max out the damage then attack the battlecruiser as soon as it arrives. I've done it on a rock before, my 6 void rays are fully charged and it could decimate a bc in seconds. |
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Aug 3 2010, 11:58 AM
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153 posts Joined: Aug 2010 From: in line
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agree!!
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Aug 3 2010, 12:18 PM
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QUOTE(-ZeN- @ Aug 3 2010, 10:38 AM) @kc - againts BC i think Mio is right, feedback play very important row, just like ghost plan important role against protoss. but void ray is also good. Since u can feedback them, then chrage up all ur void ray on 1, then when fully charge u can easily killed a feedbacked BC. also, void ray can shoot and run right? Well, if you upgrade the speed boost for voids, u can pull back the void getting assaulted by the BC and continue to charge once the BC changed targets I guess.Added on August 3, 2010, 10:39 amo thought i contribute something over here, since basically i like protoss also. PvZ: http://www.starcraft-replay.com/guides/sta...-zerg-units.php |
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Aug 3 2010, 12:50 PM
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2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(kEazYc @ Aug 3 2010, 09:47 AM) What do you guys think about battlecruisers counter? From what i encounter, almost every game, once terran start to have battlecruisers, its hard to counter it, any solutions? use void ray wit fazing micro to double the dps output...but really if u let them get to a critical mass of BCs, u are pretty much toasted... This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 3 2010, 12:51 PM |
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Aug 3 2010, 02:52 PM
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135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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To let the opponents to reach till' BCs is pretty much later in game already. Best bet is to not let them reach that stage.
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Aug 3 2010, 02:56 PM
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2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 3 2010, 02:52 PM) To let the opponents to reach till' BCs is pretty much later in game already. Best bet is to not let them reach that stage. which is why i always do a timely push against terran...not only BCs, when they reach a critical number of siege tanks, its the same results... though it is annoying to break a terran sitting on 2 base turtling... |
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Aug 3 2010, 03:02 PM
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1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 3 2010, 09:43 AM) i just got DT dropped. my ally wasnt quite useful so meh >.> Yeah, with the right skill a DT opening is very strong since it forces your enemy to build detectors which by then you'll have transistioned to other tech possibly going for a robo or more gateways (and killed a great deal of his workers lol!). I'm seeing lots of use in DT openings in team leagues, since it forces the terran to use his comsat or make them get out overseers.point being, DTs arent useless lol. Added on August 3, 2010, 9:44 am hard as they can easily zergling/baneling/muta harass Gold league 2v2/3v3/4v4 doesn't seem very gold to me, I've managed to hide pylons in people's bases man. QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 3 2010, 02:56 PM) which is why i always do a timely push against terran... Tanks aren't the issue, its when the thors start coming out that you're really screwed.not only BCs, when they reach a critical number of siege tanks, its the same results... though it is annoying to break a terran sitting on 2 base turtling... Also, I'm not seeing very much archon use eh. It works damn well after a DT opening since you already have the tech plus you should have the expansion and enough gas to continue up the archon production. This post has been edited by ZeratoS: Aug 3 2010, 03:06 PM |
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Aug 3 2010, 03:07 PM
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2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(ZeratoS @ Aug 3 2010, 03:02 PM) Yeah, with the right skill a DT opening is very strong since it forces your enemy to build detectors which by then you'll have transistioned to other tech possibly going for a robo or more gateways (and killed a great deal of his workers lol!). I'm seeing lots of use in DT openings in team leagues, since it forces the terran to use his comsat or make them get out overseers. if u are planning to go HTs/ chargelot/ blink, DT tech is just 1 building away...Gold league 2v2/3v3/4v4 doesn't seem very gold to me, I've managed to hide pylons in people's bases man. if i scout my opponent got a little careless, i'll jz drop my DT shrine (hidden of course) and start to harass... even vs terran with their scans, making them waste 1 scan (around 300gold for mule) > losing 1 DT and their momentum... not to mention, ur correct placement of DTs can dictate ur opponent's army position before ur main force push in/ setup a nice concave... i guess its SEA itself... i got a fren who is totally new to sc2 got into gold  we are talking bout 20 apm type of player... back when beta, gold itself can get u creamed if u are distracted (i know i got pwned badly for not microing lol)... Added on August 3, 2010, 3:10 pm@ zeratos i dun have any trouble wit thors... as strong as they seemed, chargelots backed wit storms just ripped them apart... they are slow with pretty standard range... btw: i dun think u can fuse 2 dark templar into dark archon anymore archon is still pretty much weak but during beta, my 3warpgate1robo army got pwned by fanatic's archon... they are really good tanks and does serious damage to zealots/sentires This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 3 2010, 03:10 PM |
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Aug 3 2010, 03:29 PM
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200 posts Joined: Jun 2009
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just got into gold league ......i found that it has more weaker player den silver >.>
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Aug 3 2010, 03:31 PM
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135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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Yea, very much agreed that Terran should not be left alone too long. It's just waiting for them to get enough firepower to give you a one heavy pound. Tried Voidray rush in one game just now, not too bad.
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Aug 3 2010, 03:32 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(xShinji @ Aug 3 2010, 03:29 PM) just got into gold league ......i found that it has more weaker player den silver >.> placement players got in there and haven drop down yet  |
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Aug 3 2010, 03:34 PM
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Senior Member
1,111 posts Joined: Mar 2005 From: TaiPinG / Singapore 
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don't think there's dark archon anymore...
dark templars will merge to become archon instead... |
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Aug 3 2010, 03:36 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 3 2010, 03:31 PM) Yea, very much agreed that Terran should not be left alone too long. It's just waiting for them to get enough firepower to give you a one heavy pound. Tried Voidray rush in one game just now, not too bad. once they mass up, they'll gonna do the slow push siege tank formation backed with marines and marauders at the front, ravens in the air...pretty much a lost cause unless u can base trade or attack their low mobility... usually against T, i'll make sure to harass em from all angles - first stalker poke - 1 voidray harass (can be transitioned into carriers which i only used vs T lol) - DTs - warp prism |
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Aug 3 2010, 04:03 PM
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200 posts Joined: Jun 2009
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for now....i will camp my troops infront of his base....slowly expo...cant attack due to tonne of siege
a number of troops def medivac drop each base if PvT they eventually out of mineral ...or do chargelot play -> HT/DT |
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Aug 3 2010, 05:43 PM
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5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 3 2010, 03:31 PM) Yea, very much agreed that Terran should not be left alone too long. It's just waiting for them to get enough firepower to give you a one heavy pound. Tried Voidray rush in one game just now, not too bad. quite honestly, same shit goes for ANY race. zerg got larvae boost from queen, toss got chrono, they'd have just about equal macro opportunities as terran, mules or not. |
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Aug 3 2010, 05:53 PM
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QUOTE(xShinji @ Aug 3 2010, 03:29 PM) just got into gold league ......i found that it has more weaker player den silver >.> Lol, I just got into Platinum league and I still managed to hide one pylon inside their base. |
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Aug 3 2010, 05:56 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 3 2010, 05:43 PM) quite honestly, same shit goes for ANY race. zerg got larvae boost from queen, toss got chrono, they'd have just about equal macro opportunities as terran, mules or not. mass chrono carriers is fun |
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Aug 3 2010, 05:59 PM
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5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(Mio4Ever @ Aug 3 2010, 05:53 PM) Lol, I just got into Platinum league and I still managed to hide one pylon inside their base. i nuke rushed in plat before for the lulz, so yeah lol |
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Aug 3 2010, 06:59 PM
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Junior Member
200 posts Joined: Jun 2009
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hmm , having trouble with siege tank Marines marauder viking combo ...
always got blow up by siege while i cant really get near to siege tank and blow siege tank up... anyway where to solve? |
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Aug 3 2010, 07:10 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(xShinji @ Aug 3 2010, 06:59 PM) hmm , having trouble with siege tank Marines marauder viking combo ... chargelots + stormsssssssssssssssssalways got blow up by siege while i cant really get near to siege tank and blow siege tank up... anyway where to solve? |
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Aug 3 2010, 07:14 PM
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Junior Member
200 posts Joined: Jun 2009
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i scout hellion early with no siege tank....so i gone with collosus with stalker >.< immortal and little zealots
did get my templar up but its too late~~~ >.< |
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Aug 3 2010, 07:19 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(xShinji @ Aug 3 2010, 07:14 PM) i scout hellion early with no siege tank....so i gone with collosus with stalker >.< immortal and little zealots chargelots will get into the face of his bio army, providing a quick surround for ur storm to lands...did get my templar up but its too late~~~ >.< siege tanks are immobile and perfect target for storms as well... of course u can always throw in immortals which work great against marauders/ tanks which is not hard to tech since u gotten robo for observers... i prefer the mass chargelots + HTs backed with stalkers due to the mass warpgate tech... Added on August 3, 2010, 7:21 pmbtw blink stalkers are good as well unless he have those annoying ravens with their PDDs This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 3 2010, 07:21 PM |
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Aug 3 2010, 08:52 PM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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Archons man. archons. 3/4 of the SEA players don't tech ghost for the EMP.
I think 6 Archons enough to wipe a base, plus with 1 or 2 expansions you'll be pumping them out at a rate of 4 per 20~30 seconds. They own mutas too, and have lots of shields. Archons backed by chargelots = scary. I think you'll have excess minerals anyway. This post has been edited by ZeratoS: Aug 3 2010, 08:53 PM |
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Aug 3 2010, 09:29 PM
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313 posts Joined: Apr 2006
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Due to the closing of my thread here is Zeratos build order althought I am not sure for what matchup is this ... hope zera can fill us in here .
9 Pylon (Attempt proxy pylon with recon probe) 12 Gateway 14 Assimilator 16 Pylon + Cybernetics (Warpgate) Push out zealots + Twilight council. Warp in 2 more Gateways and go for Dark Shrine if your proxy was a success. If proxy is still not discovered, pop out more warpgates, expand if you can and go for 2 forges. From here you can go Archon/Zealot/Stalker if they got detectors (which is highly likely), if not you can go robo. |
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Aug 3 2010, 10:00 PM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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QUOTE(Laguna @ Aug 3 2010, 09:29 PM) Due to the closing of my thread here is Zeratos build order althought I am not sure for what matchup is this ... hope zera can fill us in here . PvT 9 Pylon (Attempt proxy pylon with recon probe) 12 Gateway 14 Assimilator 16 Pylon + Cybernetics (Warpgate) Push out zealots + Twilight council. Warp in 2 more Gateways and go for Dark Shrine if your proxy was a success. If proxy is still not discovered, pop out more warpgates, expand if you can and go for 2 forges. From here you can go Archon/Zealot/Stalker if they got detectors (which is highly likely), if not you can go robo.  Its the mental factor after you open with this! Depending on your preference and how agressive the enemy is, this is a DT opener. I threw in Zealots for team matches so I can backup allies and provide a fallback if they rush early. The BO can be refined though, anyone like to go for it? This post has been edited by ZeratoS: Aug 3 2010, 10:03 PM |
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Aug 4 2010, 01:04 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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first day of the game was not bad...
managed to DT, 2 gate harass, storm!!!!!!!! and carriers... did everything i used to do in beta except my APM n micro getting bad lol... i even put my HTs in front of the battle by accident "This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 4 2010, 01:48 AM |
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Aug 4 2010, 03:11 PM
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Junior Member
203 posts Joined: Jan 2008 From: Shah Alam 
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DTs are risky IMO as it takes up lots of gas. And if T knows what you're doing, they might do a timing push before your DTs are out. Dark Shrines takes forever to warp in my eyes >_>
I've rather do the standard opening and play safe with obs first. Most of the time T turtles by their expo. Just becareful of Reaper/ Medivac drops... scouting is crucial, no mater what race you plays. |
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Aug 4 2010, 03:44 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(ArticFir3 @ Aug 4 2010, 03:11 PM) DTs are risky IMO as it takes up lots of gas. And if T knows what you're doing, they might do a timing push before your DTs are out. Dark Shrines takes forever to warp in my eyes >_> i usually put my DT on standby till they scanned...I've rather do the standard opening and play safe with obs first. Most of the time T turtles by their expo. Just becareful of Reaper/ Medivac drops... scouting is crucial, no mater what race you plays. or use them to give sight on the ramp (using the hold position)... in the end it depends on what i've scouted... and ya they take forever to warp =( |
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Aug 4 2010, 04:06 PM
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Senior Member
4,852 posts Joined: Aug 2006
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Great video for those who are new to the game. |
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Aug 4 2010, 04:20 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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/thank cheese
good tutorial... and note the building placement, its good for ur economy and against terran harassment... This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 4 2010, 04:52 PM |
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Aug 4 2010, 05:38 PM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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QUOTE(Cheesenium @ Aug 4 2010, 04:06 PM) Great video for those who are new to the game. PvP very volatile man, depends on how fast you are. Other matchups, this is really gg. Siege mode won't even be ready when you push out. This post has been edited by ZeratoS: Aug 4 2010, 05:38 PM |
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Aug 4 2010, 05:42 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(Cheesenium @ Aug 4 2010, 04:06 PM) Great video for those who are new to the game. |
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Aug 5 2010, 11:40 AM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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Yup. Added to the front page.
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Aug 6 2010, 04:02 PM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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Can we get some diamonds and plats to upload their 1v1 replays here? MoonFlown? Pretty please? D:
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Aug 6 2010, 04:04 PM
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Senior Member
1,036 posts Joined: Oct 2007 From: Moon
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Ah, Protoss replay? I'm not that good at 1v1 Protoss. But I might have some moderate 2v2 replays ><
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Aug 6 2010, 04:09 PM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 6 2010, 04:04 PM) Ah, Protoss replay? I'm not that good at 1v1 Protoss. But I might have some moderate 2v2 replays >< All I see is, Diamond league and a protoss symbol 8D So I'll be grateful for any help I can get actually. "Not so good" to you may be a whole lotta learning for newer players! |
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Aug 6 2010, 04:10 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(ZeratoS @ Aug 6 2010, 04:02 PM) Can we get some diamonds and plats to upload their 1v1 replays here? MoonFlown? Pretty please? D: errr, i got a 2v2, which is a 1v1, nak? opponents super nublets though ROFLAdded on August 6, 2010, 4:11 pm QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 6 2010, 04:04 PM) Ah, Protoss replay? I'm not that good at 1v1 Protoss. But I might have some moderate 2v2 replays >< hes a zerg player, lol.This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 6 2010, 04:11 PM |
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Aug 6 2010, 04:14 PM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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btw, i m a protoss player and hv difficulty in facing zerg Roach rush and camp in front of my base to limit my expo....their tactics mostly are roach rush/hydralisk then mutalisk to harass...in which my stalker and Colloseaus will be much more useless to stop them..any comment on this?
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Aug 6 2010, 04:16 PM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Aug 6 2010, 04:14 PM) btw, i m a protoss player and hv difficulty in facing zerg Roach rush and camp in front of my base to limit my expo....their tactics mostly are roach rush/hydralisk then mutalisk to harass...in which my stalker and Colloseaus will be much more useless to stop them..any comment on this? 4 Gate. Don't give them the chance to even camp your expo.QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 6 2010, 04:10 PM) errr, i got a 2v2, which is a 1v1, nak? opponents super nublets though ROFL Oh. I am sad. Any replays will do!Added on August 6, 2010, 4:11 pm hes a zerg player, lol. This post has been edited by ZeratoS: Aug 6 2010, 04:17 PM |
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Aug 6 2010, 04:19 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Aug 6 2010, 04:14 PM) btw, i m a protoss player and hv difficulty in facing zerg Roach rush and camp in front of my base to limit my expo....their tactics mostly are roach rush/hydralisk then mutalisk to harass...in which my stalker and Colloseaus will be much more useless to stop them..any comment on this? you spam stalkers like there is no tomorrow. blink is your friend. |
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Aug 6 2010, 04:19 PM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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i used to put 5 gates...but with combination of units zeal/stalker/collo... is that better just use stalker with collo? cause i notice that my zeal always die before rushing into their mass hydralisk and roach =.=
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Aug 6 2010, 04:20 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(ZeratoS @ Aug 6 2010, 04:16 PM) 4 Gate. Don't give them the chance to even camp your expo. why sad? cuz moon is a zerg? hes still a diamond regardless lawlOh. I am sad. Any replays will do! |
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Aug 6 2010, 04:22 PM
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Senior Member
1,036 posts Joined: Oct 2007 From: Moon
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Aug 6 2010, 04:14 PM) btw, i m a protoss player and hv difficulty in facing zerg Roach rush and camp in front of my base to limit my expo....their tactics mostly are roach rush/hydralisk then mutalisk to harass...in which my stalker and Colloseaus will be much more useless to stop them..any comment on this? If a zerg roach/hydra rushes you it means he's most likely operating on one base only, else it wouldn't considered rush. Turtle up with stalker, sentries and collossus are you're good to go.When you're able to break their containment rush straight to the zerg base because he won't have enough larvae to replenish with one base. Also remember to use forcefields to push roaches away from your main army and let collos and stalker out-range them. |
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Aug 6 2010, 04:25 PM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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thx for all of ur comments...i will try this tonight..
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Aug 6 2010, 04:44 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 6 2010, 04:22 PM) If a zerg roach/hydra rushes you it means he's most likely operating on one base only, else it wouldn't considered rush. Turtle up with stalker, sentries and collossus are you're good to go. depending on the containment situation, colossus may not be advisable due to them being a huge "hit me target".When you're able to break their containment rush straight to the zerg base because he won't have enough larvae to replenish with one base. Also remember to use forcefields to push roaches away from your main army and let collos and stalker out-range them. hydras and mutas will be able to take it out easily not to mention, colossus takes a whole lot of time, zerg roaches/hydras dont. need robotics + bay, then to even ultilize the range upgrade (force field you mentioned) you need to well, have it upgraded HT's or even DT's if the zerg isnt careful enough to get overseers would do a MUCH better job at warding that containment, and proceed to counterattack. not to mention, if you go DT, it would cause an upset for the zerg to 1) get seers 2) evo chamb > spore which would ultimately slow down his replenishment too from the counterattack. Added on August 6, 2010, 4:47 pm QUOTE(raylee914 @ Aug 6 2010, 04:19 PM) i used to put 5 gates...but with combination of units zeal/stalker/collo... is that better just use stalker with collo? cause i notice that my zeal always die before rushing into their mass hydralisk and roach =.= you need chargelots, zealots are useless.that said, they DIE FOR A PURPOSE. they are your meatshield. would you rather have your colossus/stalkers melt away without zealots or force field warding off a roach army? unless ur micro is damn good and zerg isnt focus firing (typical roach player wont as FF'ing roach tend to produce a LOT of overkills, that said, he could multi group roach but thats damn advance micro'ing ady and is only seen amongst diamond league players and rarely [almost never] plat or under) then you can go pure stalker/colossus in a way, pure stalker would be better than colossus as they are cheaper, and easier to pump out. thus you're getting more firepower in short term (you got rushed and contained, lets not even go long term) but yeah, overall colossus do provide a much higher long term firepower compared to just stalkers. This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 6 2010, 04:47 PM |
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Aug 6 2010, 05:37 PM
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Senior Member
1,036 posts Joined: Oct 2007 From: Moon
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 6 2010, 04:44 PM) depending on the containment situation, colossus may not be advisable due to them being a huge "hit me target". For a one base zerg, it's impossible to rush with roach and hydra yet able to pump muta/corruptor to counter collo. hydras and mutas will be able to take it out easily not to mention, colossus takes a whole lot of time, zerg roaches/hydras dont. need robotics + bay, then to even ultilize the range upgrade (force field you mentioned) you need to well, have it upgraded HT's or even DT's if the zerg isnt careful enough to get overseers would do a MUCH better job at warding that containment, and proceed to counterattack. not to mention, if you go DT, it would cause an upset for the zerg to 1) get seers 2) evo chamb > spore which would ultimately slow down his replenishment too from the counterattack. Added on August 6, 2010, 4:47 pm you need chargelots, zealots are useless. that said, they DIE FOR A PURPOSE. they are your meatshield. would you rather have your colossus/stalkers melt away without zealots or force field warding off a roach army? unless ur micro is damn good and zerg isnt focus firing (typical roach player wont as FF'ing roach tend to produce a LOT of overkills, that said, he could multi group roach but thats damn advance micro'ing ady and is only seen amongst diamond league players and rarely [almost never] plat or under) then you can go pure stalker/colossus in a way, pure stalker would be better than colossus as they are cheaper, and easier to pump out. thus you're getting more firepower in short term (you got rushed and contained, lets not even go long term) but yeah, overall colossus do provide a much higher long term firepower compared to just stalkers. Like I mentioned, a rush would be a fast lair into hydra from roach (1base). By the time protoss researchings lens or making collossus zerg would either keep pressuring or expanding. Use forcefields to buy time for collossus. Forcefields can prevent most of the zerg army from approaching your collossus (roach low range and hydra slow movement speed). Of course a well place forcefields and micro-ed collo can easily break the hydra-roach rush and backfire zerg. This post has been edited by Moonflown: Aug 6 2010, 05:39 PM |
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Aug 6 2010, 05:41 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 6 2010, 05:37 PM) For a one base zerg, it's impossible to rush with roach and hydra yet able to pump muta/corruptor to counter collo. corruptor impossible, mutas easy. and its based on raylee914's post that he was harassed by mutas (though personally, id stick to either just hydra or just muta. too gas consuming, and you know it well)Like I mentioned, a rush would be a fast lair into hydra from roach (1base). By the time protoss research lens or making collossus zerg would either keep pressuring or expanding which will be very vulnerable. Forcefields can prevent most of the zerg army from approaching your collossus (roach low rage and hydra slow movement speed). Of course a well place forcefields and micro-ed collo can easily break the rush and backfire zerg. as for force field, smart zerg would just burrow/move away or avoid being in a bad situation by force field right? im sure you would agree the same too haha. |
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Aug 6 2010, 07:46 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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i would go with quaz's suggestion for this...
4 gate blink stalkers would be more than enuff due to both roach n hydra being armored and roach's pathetic range... combo with good blink micro on ur stalkers, ur amy should have the battle unless he pre-concave >.< when he transition to muta, u can blink to chase... Added on August 6, 2010, 7:50 pmps: when u are contained, ur gas is kinda limited as well that's y i prefer stalkers This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 6 2010, 07:50 PM |
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Aug 6 2010, 07:54 PM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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I'm wondering how to counter reapers when they send it off the bat before your cybernetics is even out, think I've seen that happen before and its very annoying.
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Aug 6 2010, 08:22 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(ZeratoS @ Aug 6 2010, 07:54 PM) I'm wondering how to counter reapers when they send it off the bat before your cybernetics is even out, think I've seen that happen before and its very annoying. Scout him for early gas, only sure fire way to counter without burning zealot or probesIf no or bad scouting then prepare to lose a couple of zealots and probes until you get stalkers |
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Aug 6 2010, 08:30 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 6 2010, 08:22 PM) Scout him for early gas, only sure fire way to counter without burning zealot or probes for my BO, i can always get my stalker out now before his 1st reaper reach my base unless he proxy...If no or bad scouting then prepare to lose a couple of zealots and probes until you get stalkers i always make it a must for a fast stalker vs terran... |
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Aug 6 2010, 09:59 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 6 2010, 08:30 PM) for my BO, i can always get my stalker out now before his 1st reaper reach my base unless he proxy... depending on map, 11 rax + gas + depot combo can pump reapers out damn fast and can reach your base in no time. if he does proxy, habis. loli always make it a must for a fast stalker vs terran... |
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Aug 6 2010, 10:14 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 6 2010, 09:59 PM) depending on map, 11 rax + gas + depot combo can pump reapers out damn fast and can reach your base in no time. if he does proxy, habis. lol well make ur stalkers faster then (save some chrono) =p |
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Aug 6 2010, 10:27 PM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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I find it really frusfrating coz' most of the time I end up losing to zerg players. Gah. Is there any sign that could tell that a zerg player is going for mutas? Each time I prepare for a rush, no rush came and end up with mutas swarming in.
And I'm really scratching my head on how to counter combos of corruptors and broodlords. They're irritating like crap. This post has been edited by incx: Aug 6 2010, 10:29 PM |
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Aug 6 2010, 10:46 PM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 6 2010, 10:27 PM) I find it really frusfrating coz' most of the time I end up losing to zerg players. Gah. Is there any sign that could tell that a zerg player is going for mutas? Each time I prepare for a rush, no rush came and end up with mutas swarming in. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessag...topic_id=141155And I'm really scratching my head on how to counter combos of corruptors and broodlords. They're irritating like crap. He's pretty good man, and yes Terran is pretty predictable and counterable. The one I hate is zerg >: ( Turns out I was doing stuff wrong. Like, waiting for the 9 supply probe to come out before building a pylon. FAIL Q_Q This post has been edited by ZeratoS: Aug 6 2010, 10:46 PM |
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Aug 6 2010, 10:49 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 6 2010, 10:27 PM) I find it really frusfrating coz' most of the time I end up losing to zerg players. Gah. Is there any sign that could tell that a zerg player is going for mutas? Each time I prepare for a rush, no rush came and end up with mutas swarming in. if u ask me, stop being defensive...And I'm really scratching my head on how to counter combos of corruptors and broodlords. They're irritating like crap. try going 2 gate against zerg? if u are too passive against zerg, they'll overrun u and replenish before u... |
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Aug 6 2010, 11:31 PM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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I've tried the 2 gateway rush as well, it works fine occasionally but the problem is if the zerg player is smart enough, they'll run past my zealots and head for my probes. That's the prob.
@ZeratoS: Thanks. I'll have a read. |
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Aug 6 2010, 11:58 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 6 2010, 11:31 PM) I've tried the 2 gateway rush as well, it works fine occasionally but the problem is if the zerg player is smart enough, they'll run past my zealots and head for my probes. That's the prob. u push out with 3-4 zealots with some micro u can do very well...@ZeratoS: Thanks. I'll have a read. if they do run by to ur base, jz pull probes to clear with it... they can handle the zerglings pretty well, outnumbering them for a surround... usually, players will wall off their base with a single zealot or pylon block it... else, u do a 3-4 gate timely push... |
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Aug 7 2010, 12:56 AM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 6 2010, 11:58 PM) u push out with 3-4 zealots with some micro u can do very well... Bad idea to pylon block cause people are getting smarter, baneling bust these days. *shrugs*if they do run by to ur base, jz pull probes to clear with it... they can handle the zerglings pretty well, outnumbering them for a surround... usually, players will wall off their base with a single zealot or pylon block it... else, u do a 3-4 gate timely push... |
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Aug 7 2010, 01:50 AM
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Senior Member
1,036 posts Joined: Oct 2007 From: Moon
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Remember that 2 gates are not effective against cross position/far Zerg as they will have plenty of time to prepare for it.Well unless of course, its a proxy gate.
Also make haste to prepare stalkers for one base roach counter attack. |
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Aug 7 2010, 02:18 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(ZeratoS @ Aug 7 2010, 12:56 AM) Bad idea to pylon block cause people are getting smarter, baneling bust these days. *shrugs* if he would to go baneling, his base would have been ripped apart by ur zealots...not to mention there's no way for him to even get it before ur zealot reach his base (i do 3 zealot push with 2 queued for reinforcements)... u gotta take the time/ resource factors... u getting zealot and runs to his base, he tried to run by, u pylon block ur base (only 1 extra is needed if ur sim city is good) till ur next zealot comes out to defend while i run rampage in his base... most high lvl plays i see does this strategy... some even block before pushing due to the wargate tech (since u need supply from it anyways)... if ur push do fail, u have dealt enuff pressure to him as his larvae would be used for lings and u can start 4 gating like mad... in my style, i 3 zealot push with 2 behind (total 5) and either get more zealot to push (if he is having trouble defending) or go to stalkers (if i see his roach den already up)/ 4 gate... the sim city aspect is really important for defensive purpose of ur base vs zerg (or terran as well actually) This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 7 2010, 02:19 AM |
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Aug 7 2010, 07:56 AM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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Thanks for the tip. Will try again later. How bout' maps with bigger ramps? I don't think you can pylon block the large area. I suppose that's when you really have to fully utilize the probes.
And when you pylon block, don't you have to destroy the pylon later to let units out? But then again, that's why there's warpgates.  This post has been edited by incx: Aug 7 2010, 07:57 AM |
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Aug 7 2010, 10:27 AM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 7 2010, 02:18 AM) if he would to go baneling, his base would have been ripped apart by ur zealots... There's the option to turn on cell grid to see where you're placing stuff 8D very very handy hoho.not to mention there's no way for him to even get it before ur zealot reach his base (i do 3 zealot push with 2 queued for reinforcements)... u gotta take the time/ resource factors... u getting zealot and runs to his base, he tried to run by, u pylon block ur base (only 1 extra is needed if ur sim city is good) till ur next zealot comes out to defend while i run rampage in his base... most high lvl plays i see does this strategy... some even block before pushing due to the wargate tech (since u need supply from it anyways)... if ur push do fail, u have dealt enuff pressure to him as his larvae would be used for lings and u can start 4 gating like mad... in my style, i 3 zealot push with 2 behind (total 5) and either get more zealot to push (if he is having trouble defending) or go to stalkers (if i see his roach den already up)/ 4 gate... the sim city aspect is really important for defensive purpose of ur base vs zerg (or terran as well actually) |
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Aug 7 2010, 07:26 PM
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All Stars
10,859 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Sarawak
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anyone know how to counter early M/M attack from terran?
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Aug 7 2010, 11:04 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(ben3003 @ Aug 7 2010, 07:26 PM) anyone know how to counter early M/M attack from terran? usually i'll do a 1 base play till i get 4 warpgates up...i'll defend the ramp with timely forcefields until then... i find zealots the best in ripping the army apart when backed with stalkers/ sentries... |
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Aug 8 2010, 01:18 AM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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QUOTE(ben3003 @ Aug 7 2010, 07:26 PM) anyone know how to counter early M/M attack from terran? I have difficulties to face it too...mass marauders are hurting my stalker badly especially with the slow effect...I found that my zealots are food for Marauders unless i got the haste upgrade... btw, my stalkers+sentries+collo always died to mass M/M and 2 tanks behind... |
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Aug 8 2010, 05:29 AM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 6 2010, 10:27 PM) I find it really frusfrating coz' most of the time I end up losing to zerg players. Gah. Is there any sign that could tell that a zerg player is going for mutas? Each time I prepare for a rush, no rush came and end up with mutas swarming in. blink stalkers pew pew, phoenixes combo in are nice tooAnd I'm really scratching my head on how to counter combos of corruptors and broodlords. They're irritating like crap. Added on August 8, 2010, 5:30 am QUOTE(ZeratoS @ Aug 6 2010, 10:46 PM) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessag...topic_id=141155 i do 9 pylon too, whats the problem? lolHe's pretty good man, and yes Terran is pretty predictable and counterable. The one I hate is zerg >: ( Turns out I was doing stuff wrong. Like, waiting for the 9 supply probe to come out before building a pylon. FAIL Q_Q Added on August 8, 2010, 5:34 am QUOTE(incx @ Aug 7 2010, 07:56 AM) Thanks for the tip. Will try again later. How bout' maps with bigger ramps? I don't think you can pylon block the large area. I suppose that's when you really have to fully utilize the probes. bigger ramps arent a prob, block with BOTH gateways and pylon roflAnd when you pylon block, don't you have to destroy the pylon later to let units out? But then again, that's why there's warpgates. Added on August 8, 2010, 5:36 am QUOTE(ben3003 @ Aug 7 2010, 07:26 PM) anyone know how to counter early M/M attack from terran? without stim and/or you outnumber em with stalkersif got stimpacks and numbers are matched, get templars/colossus. no other way rofl Added on August 8, 2010, 5:38 am QUOTE(raylee914 @ Aug 8 2010, 01:18 AM) I have difficulties to face it too...mass marauders are hurting my stalker badly especially with the slow effect... if tanks are in the equation, opt to use phoenix gravitron, or void rays.I found that my zealots are food for Marauders unless i got the haste upgrade... btw, my stalkers+sentries+collo always died to mass M/M and 2 tanks behind... additionally, if you are able to sneak HTs for storms, couple of nice storm on the MM would gg them, and ur stalkers can blink in to the tanks. kinda micro dependant though Added on August 8, 2010, 5:54 am to zeratos/incx: sharing my 2 replays here, both are void ray plays, and 1 of them is a 1vs2 since my ally quit. both are also platinum leagues (lol on the 1v2) and to incx, you can see how i just blocked off my base lol. of course, it isnt the quickest block, but neither of my enemies are zerg, so lol that. but my plan was basically to block considering its 1vs2... macro'ing up and use less micro intensive strat would help me more considering the situation. 1vs2 blocking me playing with (i think) fuj's US friend. platinum/diamond player more void rays This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 8 2010, 05:57 AM |
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Aug 9 2010, 11:01 AM
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Junior Member
221 posts Joined: Apr 2005
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mm.. i tried the 4 gateway zealot + stalkers push d.. can easily beat medium ai.. will try beating hard next
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Aug 9 2010, 11:50 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(sixseven @ Aug 9 2010, 11:01 AM) mm.. i tried the 4 gateway zealot + stalkers push d.. can easily beat medium ai.. will try beating hard next try to get a +1 damage upgrade before u push as well...my timing push with 4 gate is with +1 upgrade... make tonnes of wonders with chrono boost on it to ROFLstomp ur opponent's army/ base... |
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Aug 9 2010, 11:57 AM
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Junior Member
221 posts Joined: Apr 2005
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actually i think this build good for 1 on1 only? coz when i play co op vs ai, the ai got backup then i lost all my units >.<
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Aug 9 2010, 12:02 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(sixseven @ Aug 9 2010, 11:57 AM) actually i think this build good for 1 on1 only? coz when i play co op vs ai, the ai got backup then i lost all my units >.< i do this for 2v2 as well...as long as ur partner push with u then its good... or in my case, my partner spam me resource, i make 10 warpgates and push alone LOL... |
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Aug 9 2010, 12:40 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(sixseven @ Aug 9 2010, 11:57 AM) actually i think this build good for 1 on1 only? coz when i play co op vs ai, the ai got backup then i lost all my units >.< 3/4 gate are good on 1v1 or 2v2 as well. |
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Aug 9 2010, 02:15 PM
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Senior Member
1,111 posts Joined: Mar 2005 From: TaiPinG / Singapore
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in a 2v2...definitely nit partner backup also...
for example, 1 mass ground/melee/tanker while the other mass air/anti-air/range?  |
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Aug 9 2010, 02:24 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(aLertz @ Aug 9 2010, 02:15 PM) in a 2v2...definitely nit partner backup also... not really...for example, 1 mass ground/melee/tanker while the other mass air/anti-air/range? depends on ur scouting... like when we do timing pushes, we dun mass a counter... u can either be the counter, or u force em to be the counter  |
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Aug 9 2010, 03:00 PM
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Junior Member
90 posts Joined: Dec 2006
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protoss player here... i think the best way to win a match against the platinum player is to scout on what they do.... u need to know how to counter their attack... especially terran... i find it difficult to win a battle against terran... with the siege tank and marauders... zealots cannot win against marauders if they play run and attack strategy... unless you already upgrade the zealots speed thingie...
for zerg.... yeah.. mass zealots and stalker.... u need to come out with a zealot before the first rush begin... and at least 2 gateway and dont forget about building pylons.... use ur probe to attack the zerglings for the first rush if u dont have zealot at that time... usually the zerglings will come in 3... but quickly build more zealots after that... if the zerg player did not rush attack... u know what to do... hahaha... the ai is very easy laa i think.... i can beat very hard ai in 1vs1 easily... did not try insane yet... u need to create as many units as you can... and try to arrange ur unit front and back on the first wave of the attack... so that u can defend efficiently... after the first wave... straightaway attack their base.. dont put to much effort on defense building.... because u will not have units to counter their attack... for 2by2 or 3by3.... or even 4by4.... u need a very good partner... the first wave is very important... dont let the ai base freely build anything... they will expand... and it's fast... u will overrun in 20 to 30 minutes... start attacking their economy... i explain this as a protoss player... for terran... it might be different.. because protoss does not have good defense strategies against the ai.... most of the time, if u did not counter their attack, u will overrun... haha... and i find that stalker is actually a very useful units as it can attack air units.... no i'm not a pro gamer... i usually failed to win against terran player... |
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Aug 9 2010, 03:02 PM
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Junior Member
542 posts Joined: Nov 2004 From: Petaling Jaya
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protoss is awesome. i have no problem against protoss and terran but i have a problem against zerg! no, not against their rush but, how do you counter mass mutalisk? i always have a problem with that.
scenario: i zealot rush him, he goes roaches, i tech immortals and zealots, we fight for a bit, his spire comes out, i get 2 phoenix's, he gets 6 muta's ..im dead so, anyone knows how to assrape mass mutas? thanks |
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Aug 9 2010, 03:11 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Phonzy @ Aug 9 2010, 03:02 PM) protoss is awesome. i have no problem against protoss and terran but i have a problem against zerg! no, not against their rush but, how do you counter mass mutalisk? i always have a problem with that. stalkers wit blink i guess...scenario: i zealot rush him, he goes roaches, i tech immortals and zealots, we fight for a bit, his spire comes out, i get 2 phoenix's, he gets 6 muta's ..im dead so, anyone knows how to assrape mass mutas? thanks for ur case i prefer this 1. i zealot rush him 2. he go roaches 3. i go 4 gate chargelots and HT Added on August 9, 2010, 3:14 pm QUOTE(zariel @ Aug 9 2010, 03:00 PM) protoss player here... i think the best way to win a match against the platinum player is to scout on what they do.... u need to know how to counter their attack... especially terran... i find it difficult to win a battle against terran... with the siege tank and marauders... zealots cannot win against marauders if they play run and attack strategy... unless you already upgrade the zealots speed thingie... while stalkers look really great on paper, they are not that strong against the heavy hitters...for zerg.... yeah.. mass zealots and stalker.... u need to come out with a zealot before the first rush begin... and at least 2 gateway and dont forget about building pylons.... use ur probe to attack the zerglings for the first rush if u dont have zealot at that time... usually the zerglings will come in 3... but quickly build more zealots after that... if the zerg player did not rush attack... u know what to do... hahaha... the ai is very easy laa i think.... i can beat very hard ai in 1vs1 easily... did not try insane yet... u need to create as many units as you can... and try to arrange ur unit front and back on the first wave of the attack... so that u can defend efficiently... after the first wave... straightaway attack their base.. dont put to much effort on defense building.... because u will not have units to counter their attack... for 2by2 or 3by3.... or even 4by4.... u need a very good partner... the first wave is very important... dont let the ai base freely build anything... they will expand... and it's fast... u will overrun in 20 to 30 minutes... start attacking their economy... i explain this as a protoss player... for terran... it might be different.. because protoss does not have good defense strategies against the ai.... most of the time, if u did not counter their attack, u will overrun... haha... and i find that stalker is actually a very useful units as it can attack air units.... no i'm not a pro gamer... i usually failed to win against terran player... against terran, go for 4 gate chargelots/HT or the blinkstalkers... if u are getting zealots without charge, u are doing it wrong... the charge to me is the single best upgrade! very hard AI is kinda ez even if u let them do wut they want... the key is to micro manage ur army... while their army is huge, u can beat em easily wit some micro... Added on August 9, 2010, 3:16 pmps: TS, i think its best to remove about the counters part... as day9 put it, there is no such thing as counters and if u are forcing a counter, u wont have the numbers to be effective... the general weakness/ more damage is more than enuff to be ur general rule of thumb... This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 9 2010, 03:16 PM |
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Aug 9 2010, 03:18 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(Phonzy @ Aug 9 2010, 03:02 PM) protoss is awesome. i have no problem against protoss and terran but i have a problem against zerg! no, not against their rush but, how do you counter mass mutalisk? i always have a problem with that. stalkers and/or phoenix. also 2 phoenix > 6 muta. cuz his muta will never hit you.scenario: i zealot rush him, he goes roaches, i tech immortals and zealots, we fight for a bit, his spire comes out, i get 2 phoenix's, he gets 6 muta's ..im dead so, anyone knows how to assrape mass mutas? thanks |
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Aug 9 2010, 03:26 PM
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Junior Member
90 posts Joined: Dec 2006
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 9 2010, 03:11 PM) stalkers wit blink i guess... yeah in this case, u need to finish him off quickly hahaha, i chose zealot rush him, but scout him first... for ur case i prefer this 1. i zealot rush him 2. he go roaches 3. i go 4 gate chargelots and HT stalker is also good against those muta's..... but u need many stalkers laa.... plus u need to arrange the stalkers attack one by one... upgrade ur forge.... plus for stalker, u only need to warp it while pheonix, u need to create it, and it takes time.... usually my game with zerg 1vs1 will end in 15 to 30 minutes... i dont have problem with muta's, hahaha.... hope this help.. |
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Aug 9 2010, 03:32 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(zariel @ Aug 9 2010, 03:26 PM) yeah in this case, u need to finish him off quickly hahaha, i chose zealot rush him, but scout him first... well since u already have 2 gate from ur initial zealot harass, its natural to transition into gateway builds =pstalker is also good against those muta's..... but u need many stalkers laa.... plus u need to arrange the stalkers attack one by one... upgrade ur forge.... plus for stalker, u only need to warp it while pheonix, u need to create it, and it takes time.... usually my game with zerg 1vs1 will end in 15 to 30 minutes... i dont have problem with muta's, hahaha.... hope this help.. try watching day9daily #160, its a good PvZ with high emphasize on maps... |
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Aug 9 2010, 03:37 PM
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Junior Member
90 posts Joined: Dec 2006
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Added on August 9, 2010, 3:14 pm while stalkers look really great on paper, they are not that strong against the heavy hitters... against terran, go for 4 gate chargelots/HT or the blinkstalkers... if u are getting zealots without charge, u are doing it wrong... the charge to me is the single best upgrade! very hard AI is kinda ez even if u let them do wut they want... the key is to micro manage ur army... while their army is huge, u can beat em easily wit some micro... Added on August 9, 2010, 3:16 pmps: TS, i think its best to remove about the counters part... as day9 put it, there is no such thing as counters and if u are forcing a counter, u wont have the numbers to be effective... the general weakness/ more damage is more than enuff to be ur general rule of thumb... [/quote] yeah, i think that's why i cannot beat those terran, thanks anyway... i try those chargelots/HT.... haha, counter is good i think... play with very hard and i usually can win with counter.... but it ends quickly laa... lol... for the number part, that's why i told before that u need many units, not the defense building... create units after the first wave, go attack their probe/scv/drones.. continually supply troops using warp..... yeah u can win.... but usually to defense against very hard ai, really need a lot of effort... maybe my strategies a bit different than u.... ah.. i need to learn fast... so many things that i dont know.... |
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Aug 9 2010, 03:42 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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for AI the counter is good but against real player its always a bad thing...
focusing on counters keep u in the constant tech switch or playing passively... players unlike AI do throw harassments and timely pushes instead of random waves... and when they do push out, ur counters is just too ineffective at times... besides tat u might be giving up map control... there was a very good day9daily about counters which totally changed my mind about counters... i used to force counters ie see roaches? drop a robo bay... but they dun justify ur investments due to the numbers and resources u invest to tech... i would rather jz get +1 and stick to stalkers or chargelots (despite paper says roaches counter zealots)... This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 9 2010, 03:49 PM |
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Aug 9 2010, 04:03 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 9 2010, 03:42 PM) for AI the counter is good but against real player its always a bad thing... from your initial replies, ur all counter here counter there. i personally prefer straightforward bruteforce with numbers or micro. or fast tech. either 1 never both. less complications for my side and i hate complicated things.focusing on counters keep u in the constant tech switch or playing passively... players unlike AI do throw harassments and timely pushes instead of random waves... and when they do push out, ur counters is just too ineffective at times... besides tat u might be giving up map control... there was a very good day9daily about counters which totally changed my mind about counters... i used to force counters ie see roaches? drop a robo bay... but they dun justify ur investments due to the numbers and resources u invest to tech... i would rather jz get +1 and stick to stalkers or chargelots (despite paper says roaches counter zealots)... |
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Aug 9 2010, 04:09 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 9 2010, 04:03 PM) from your initial replies, ur all counter here counter there. i personally prefer straightforward bruteforce with numbers or micro. or fast tech. either 1 never both. less complications for my side and i hate complicated things. but i'm against the concept of hard counters...+1 upgrade with 4gate > getting robo into immortals for me... as u said, u wont have enuff resource for both =p |
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Aug 9 2010, 04:13 PM
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Junior Member
90 posts Joined: Dec 2006
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i guess that depends on the player right... the best way to win is to scout first... yeah as i said before, that one is for battle against ai... when u play with real players, it depends on many things...
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Aug 9 2010, 04:18 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(zariel @ Aug 9 2010, 04:13 PM) i guess that depends on the player right... the best way to win is to scout first... yeah as i said before, that one is for battle against ai... when u play with real players, it depends on many things... yup its usually scouting the best way...but not always u have the chance to change ur tech after scouting as u cant scout his base 100% all the time... have a look at day9daily #153, its about the concept on counters/ hard counters ps: i'm his fanboy so yeah  This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 9 2010, 04:19 PM |
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Aug 9 2010, 04:19 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(zariel @ Aug 9 2010, 04:13 PM) i guess that depends on the player right... the best way to win is to scout first... yeah as i said before, that one is for battle against ai... when u play with real players, it depends on many things... hard to say man, i got a decent win ratio using MM all in press T for victory using terrans.or the 3/4 gate blink stalkers and just micro. 3 gate if i want early blink + forge and upgrades, 4 gate if just spam stalkers like a retard |
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Aug 9 2010, 04:20 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 9 2010, 04:19 PM) hard to say man, i got a decent win ratio using MM all in press T for victory using terrans. MM all in is pretty scary for toss...or the 3/4 gate blink stalkers and just micro. 3 gate if i want early blink + forge and upgrades, 4 gate if just spam stalkers like a retard even when u have scouted, its freaking hard to defend against it T  |
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Aug 9 2010, 04:24 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 9 2010, 04:20 PM) MM all in is pretty scary for toss... doesnt matter on toss, or zerg or even TVT. i just MM like a retard. if terran early tank, then thats the end of me. however i still got a chance with MMM medivacs drop or counter tank also since econ is healthy on my MM BO loleven when u have scouted, its freaking hard to defend against it T like i said, T for victory. wish protoss have that i win button, lol B button didnt have as much impact as T button >.> |
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Aug 9 2010, 04:24 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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Good read on counters (on thor counters) and why are they bad if u focus too much into em...
The question is rather generic... People tend to think too much in terms of "what single unit counters this single unit". Looking at the bigger picture will help. For example, if he's going straight thors, it's pretty ridiculous, and any healthy marine/marauder mix will destroy it. If the thor player is a bit smarter, and has Thors supported with a marine+medivac meatshield, the "counter" becomes more complex. In that case, something with Siege Tanks would be more effective. Try to engage the player where you have a good setup of tanks in siege mode. Use either Hellions (since you'll have factories anyway for tanks) or just your own marine+marauder combo as a meatshield. If your tanks are well-placed, they'll do a ton of punishment to both his clustered marine meatshield, and will also out-range the thors, getting some good damage in. If you think too simplistically (X counters Y), your strategies will also be simple (and extreme), and countered just as simply. For example, you may think "Banshees would destroy Siege Tanks". But that would also only work if he has little to no marine support, and also means you'd have to "react" and build starports and tech up your Banshees before they even came into play... in the meantime you're screwed, if this "hard counter" (terrible word to use) Banshee tactic wasn't built in to your plan to begin with. Try to think of the bigger picture, with solid mixes of units (more than just reactionary counters), and also streamlined tech/build/expand patterns with subtle adjustments to handle specific opponents. -Knifey McGee Added on August 9, 2010, 4:27 pm QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 9 2010, 04:24 PM) doesnt matter on toss, or zerg or even TVT. i just MM like a retard. if terran early tank, then thats the end of me. however i still got a chance with MMM medivacs drop or counter tank also since econ is healthy on my MM BO lol well i am a toss player so only got to experience it from a toss view haha...like i said, T for victory. wish protoss have that i win button, lol B button didnt have as much impact as T button >.> even if i manage to hold it off, i would have lost some buildings usually... marauders jz rape so much early game... and backed with marines they are really a balanced group... unless u got chargelots, its a nightmare  This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 9 2010, 04:27 PM |
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Aug 9 2010, 05:32 PM
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Senior Member
1,036 posts Joined: Oct 2007 From: Moon
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Stim hit and run still able to render chargelots pretty useless. I rather go for HT into Archons
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Aug 9 2010, 05:34 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 9 2010, 05:32 PM) Stim hit and run still able to render chargelots pretty useless. I rather go for HT into Archons ^this. lol. they charge, slice 1-2 off. got concussed, MM pulls back while under stim, see zealot melts. rinse repeat. cry rivers. lol |
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Aug 9 2010, 05:42 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 9 2010, 05:32 PM) Stim hit and run still able to render chargelots pretty useless. I rather go for HT into Archons well u sitll need something to accompany ur HTs...i usually use zealot/ HT backed by stalkers... u can go the sentry/stalkers/HT but gas heavy a little... |
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Aug 9 2010, 06:20 PM
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Junior Member
90 posts Joined: Dec 2006
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 9 2010, 05:42 PM) well u sitll need something to accompany ur HTs... but first u need to chose whether you want to finish the game in 15 to 30 minutes or more than that.... i usually use zealot/ HT backed by stalkers... u can go the sentry/stalkers/HT but gas heavy a little... |
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Aug 9 2010, 06:29 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(zariel @ Aug 9 2010, 06:20 PM) but first u need to chose whether you want to finish the game in 15 to 30 minutes or more than that.... HTs would last u the entire game weather its 15min or 1hour...remember that energy based units becomes more valuable towards the late game... |
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Aug 9 2010, 09:41 PM
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Junior Member
59 posts Joined: May 2009
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This maybe a little unrelated, but a funny replay of mine on why you should not mass voids, lol.
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/repl...tails&id=137142 |
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Aug 10 2010, 12:33 AM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(Mio4Ever @ Aug 9 2010, 09:41 PM) This maybe a little unrelated, but a funny replay of mine on why you should not mass voids, lol. but i got 2 replays that says rays are awsm D:http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/repl...tails&id=137142 |
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Aug 10 2010, 01:29 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 10 2010, 12:33 AM) but i got 2 replays that says rays are awsm D: 2v1, voidrays are awesome!!!! |
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Aug 10 2010, 01:59 AM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 10 2010, 01:29 AM) 2v1, voidrays are awesome!!!! bzzzzzzzzzzzzzoh wait, vuvuzelas D: |
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Aug 10 2010, 04:44 PM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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Where are dem replays!
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Aug 10 2010, 05:08 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(ZeratoS @ Aug 10 2010, 04:44 PM) Where are dem replays! http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=35463166posted ady dei. unker incx like afk from sc2 and went on to BB playing tupai ady wwwww |
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Aug 10 2010, 07:37 PM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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I'm still around, doing both actually. Put up on the front page already. If anyone has any videos to contribute, do post them here.
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Aug 10 2010, 08:17 PM
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Junior Member
542 posts Joined: Nov 2004 From: Petaling Jaya
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What are you guys counter against mass marauders + thors?
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Aug 10 2010, 08:37 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 10 2010, 07:37 PM) I'm still around, doing both actually. Put up on the front page already. If anyone has any videos to contribute, do post them here. eh those are not videos dei, sc2 replay files lol.Added on August 10, 2010, 8:37 pm QUOTE(Phonzy @ Aug 10 2010, 08:17 PM) What are you guys counter against mass marauders + thors? if you're absolutely sure he only got rauder/thor, and you sure he cant/wont switch tech, mass immortal (Y)This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 10 2010, 08:37 PM |
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Aug 10 2010, 09:09 PM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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Oops. Mistake. Renamed.
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Aug 10 2010, 09:29 PM
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Junior Member
235 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Sydney, NSW
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void rays are win!
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Aug 10 2010, 09:56 PM
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Junior Member
542 posts Joined: Nov 2004 From: Petaling Jaya
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my weaknesses are muta's and marauders
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Aug 10 2010, 10:38 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 10 2010, 05:08 PM) http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=35463166 lol taokaka?posted ady dei. unker incx like afk from sc2 and went on to BB playing tupai ady wwwww |
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Aug 10 2010, 11:02 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 10 2010, 10:38 PM) lol taokaka? taokaka is a cat |
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Aug 10 2010, 11:19 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 10 2010, 11:02 PM) taokaka is a cat then still got tupai in BB meh O.ojz punished a protoss who went immortals lol... he have more immortals sentries but i got more zealots (and with charge)... then i tech to collosus, bye bye FF  |
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Aug 11 2010, 12:21 AM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 10 2010, 05:08 PM) http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=35463166 Ok ILU. brb @learning.posted ady dei. unker incx like afk from sc2 and went on to BB playing tupai ady wwwww Oh and I literally WAIT for the probe to finish warping in before pylon'ing, which..was fail. This post has been edited by ZeratoS: Aug 11 2010, 12:21 AM |
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Aug 11 2010, 03:05 AM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 10 2010, 11:19 PM) then still got tupai in BB meh O.o you go bb thread, loljz punished a protoss who went immortals lol... he have more immortals sentries but i got more zealots (and with charge)... then i tech to collosus, bye bye FF got tupai |
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Aug 11 2010, 09:42 AM
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Junior Member
59 posts Joined: May 2009
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 11 2010, 03:05 AM) you go bb thread, lol haha, I saw before. I think her name is Makoto Nanayagot tupai |
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Aug 11 2010, 10:49 AM
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Junior Member
359 posts Joined: Jun 2007
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add me im a protoss player
EndlessWaltz 625 |
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Aug 11 2010, 02:59 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Mio4Ever @ Aug 11 2010, 09:42 AM) haha, I saw before. I think her name is Makoto Nanaya oh its the DLC >.< |
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Aug 11 2010, 09:21 PM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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Is there any sites that's good to upload replays? Would be great if you guys could share it here as well.
And do share any good protoss replays that you have too. This post has been edited by incx: Aug 11 2010, 09:29 PM |
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Aug 11 2010, 09:40 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 11 2010, 09:21 PM) Is there any sites that's good to upload replays? Would be great if you guys could share it here as well. hmmm i'm kinda shy >.<And do share any good protoss replays that you have too. i'm mostly playing PvT (most frens are T) while PvP on ladder (most of them are P) |
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Aug 11 2010, 09:49 PM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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Don't la shy. Share share.
So we all can learn.This post has been edited by incx: Aug 11 2010, 09:49 PM |
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Aug 11 2010, 10:10 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 11 2010, 09:49 PM) Don't la shy. Share share. pm me ur email =p So we all can learn. |
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Aug 11 2010, 10:26 PM
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Junior Member
464 posts Joined: Mar 2005
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Just wanna chip in on vs AI. Even at Insane, u can still win with photon cannon rush vs any race. The AI isn't robust enough to counter this (yet...maybe).
Cheesy. I know. What's the counter? |
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Aug 11 2010, 10:43 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Morpheus2be @ Aug 11 2010, 10:26 PM) Just wanna chip in on vs AI. Even at Insane, u can still win with photon cannon rush vs any race. The AI isn't robust enough to counter this (yet...maybe). pulling probes off to hit the pylons while waiting for ur gateway is usually enuff for cannon rushes if u scout itCheesy. I know. What's the counter? |
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Aug 12 2010, 12:16 AM
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Junior Member
280 posts Joined: Dec 2004
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Yeah, then u build your own canons to stop theirs advancing to your nexus while tech-ing up to Colossus with Thermal Lance upgrade which makes their attack range > canons. Then watch ur army roll over ur opponent with ease ~ XD Or if u prefer u can watch my replay here http://games.wmhafiz.net/Starcraft2/Replays/View.aspx?id=23
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Aug 12 2010, 12:48 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(fizyboy @ Aug 12 2010, 12:16 AM) Yeah, then u build your own canons to stop theirs advancing to your nexus while tech-ing up to Colossus with Thermal Lance upgrade which makes their attack range > canons. Then watch ur army roll over ur opponent with ease ~ XD Or if u prefer u can watch my replay here http://games.wmhafiz.net/Starcraft2/Replays/View.aspx?id=23 or like wut kiwikaki does, contain ur opponent wit sentries FF (4 would do) and u have total map control =p |
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Aug 12 2010, 10:03 AM
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Senior Member
2,657 posts Joined: Feb 2008 From: Highbury House, 75 Drayton Park, London
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Played against some dude.... he used Phoenix and Void Ray... against me....
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Aug 12 2010, 10:13 AM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 11 2010, 10:10 PM) pm me ur email =p Haiyo. Post here mah.Anyone wanna play some custom game matches?  |
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Aug 12 2010, 11:13 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(ericpires @ Aug 12 2010, 10:03 AM) Played against some dude.... he used Phoenix and Void Ray... against me.... as NonY puts it, its a really strong combination@ incx me shy >.< |
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Aug 12 2010, 03:42 PM
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Senior Member
1,332 posts Joined: Nov 2005
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QUOTE(Morpheus2be @ Aug 11 2010, 10:26 PM) Just wanna chip in on vs AI. Even at Insane, u can still win with photon cannon rush vs any race. The AI isn't robust enough to counter this (yet...maybe). Don't think cannon rush will be effective against human, most of them will build somewhere you don have the visibility and slowly expand to your base but too slow, however ussually they will lose by that. Only stupid AI allow us build pylon next to their nexusCheesy. I know. What's the counter? |
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Aug 12 2010, 05:43 PM
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Senior Member
1,111 posts Joined: Mar 2005 From: TaiPinG / Singapore
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QUOTE(popcorn513 @ Aug 12 2010, 03:42 PM) Don't think cannon rush will be effective against human, most of them will build somewhere you don have the visibility and slowly expand to your base but too slow, however ussually they will lose by that. Only stupid AI allow us build pylon next to their nexus it still works but u have to be smart to hide the pylon and try get the cannons near enough to shoot mineral line to prevent them from mining or cc to straight ko them...lol |
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Aug 12 2010, 06:19 PM
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Senior Member
1,332 posts Joined: Nov 2005
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QUOTE(aLertz @ Aug 12 2010, 05:43 PM) it still works but u have to be smart to hide the pylon and try get the cannons near enough to shoot mineral line to prevent them from mining or cc to straight ko them...lol Never face it before, nor pro protoss proxy pylon |
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Aug 13 2010, 03:16 PM
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Senior Member
2,657 posts Joined: Feb 2008 From: Highbury House, 75 Drayton Park, London
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Keep losing to zerg everytime and terran...
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Aug 13 2010, 03:40 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(ericpires @ Aug 13 2010, 03:16 PM) Keep losing to zerg everytime and terran... wut's ur problem wit zerg?maybe we can help u out... my plan is always 3 gate robo for zerg with occasional phoenix builds... |
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Aug 13 2010, 03:45 PM
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Senior Member
2,657 posts Joined: Feb 2008 From: Highbury House, 75 Drayton Park, London
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 13 2010, 03:40 PM) wut's ur problem wit zerg? i won't even reach robo bay coz even though my 2 gate can block the zerglings... he will come from the other side... with roaches... then GGmaybe we can help u out... my plan is always 3 gate robo for zerg with occasional phoenix builds... |
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Aug 13 2010, 03:48 PM
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Senior Member
1,393 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Dust
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Today i saw Huk did an unexpected strat, He got around 5 Void Rays (i think), the opponent with 10 mauraders, 3 medivac and 5 vikings, all coming to Huk gold expansion, and what Huk did was, he uses his Void Rays to destroy his own Nexus at the gold to full charged up his Void Rays and then kill all his opponent units.
Now i know why Huk is #1 currently in the whole US region. |
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Aug 13 2010, 04:16 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(XenoFr3ak @ Aug 13 2010, 03:48 PM) Today i saw Huk did an unexpected strat, He got around 5 Void Rays (i think), the opponent with 10 mauraders, 3 medivac and 5 vikings, all coming to Huk gold expansion, and what Huk did was, he uses his Void Rays to destroy his own Nexus at the gold to full charged up his Void Rays and then kill all his opponent units. need to destroy or not? lolNow i know why Huk is #1 currently in the whole US region. 5 shouldnt obliterate a nexus after charge, unless he needed to shoot longer to maintain it when the enemy is coming. but yeah, that shows how determined he is to take down his enemies: sacrifice his 400min nexus at a gold expansion (Y) (msn ver still beats lyn ver, srsly) |
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Aug 13 2010, 04:19 PM
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Senior Member
1,393 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Dust
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 13 2010, 04:16 PM) need to destroy or not? lol Yea, he did see the enemy coming thats why he need to charge up his 5 void rays (or more).5 shouldnt obliterate a nexus after charge, unless he needed to shoot longer to maintain it when the enemy is coming. but yeah, that shows how determined he is to take down his enemies: sacrifice his 400min nexus at a gold expansion (Y) (msn ver still beats lyn ver, srsly) |
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Aug 13 2010, 04:20 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(XenoFr3ak @ Aug 13 2010, 04:19 PM) Yea, he did see the enemy coming thats why he need to charge up his 5 void rays (or more). got casted replay on that? sounds very interesting |
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Aug 13 2010, 04:24 PM
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Senior Member
1,111 posts Joined: Mar 2005 From: TaiPinG / Singapore
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QUOTE(XenoFr3ak @ Aug 13 2010, 03:48 PM) Today i saw Huk did an unexpected strat, He got around 5 Void Rays (i think), the opponent with 10 mauraders, 3 medivac and 5 vikings, all coming to Huk gold expansion, and what Huk did was, he uses his Void Rays to destroy his own Nexus at the gold to full charged up his Void Rays and then kill all his opponent units. link link?? Now i know why Huk is #1 currently in the whole US region.  |
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Aug 13 2010, 04:51 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(ericpires @ Aug 13 2010, 03:45 PM) i won't even reach robo bay coz even though my 2 gate can block the zerglings... he will come from the other side... with roaches... then GG i presume its blistering sands?if he open with a zergling rush, i think u can safely assume that his roach would be slightly delayed... with that, throw down a forge and get 1-2 cannons over there... cannons work wonders against roaches due to their low range... QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 13 2010, 04:20 PM) got casted replay on that? sounds very interesting this play is actually very well known of HuK (u often hear TL people talking bout it)...he would transition from gateway into 2 stargate with the speed upgrade vs terran... for defense, he'll charge up his VRs on his own units and for offense he'll do the same with some micro to keep it charged up to his opponent's base... he did state that getting ur VRs count to 6 with some micro is pretty deadly including burning thors down in less than 3 seconds LOL... this is contrast to hasu's carrier late game... both works actually but VRs are cheaper to mass up... This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 13 2010, 04:52 PM |
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Aug 13 2010, 05:03 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 13 2010, 04:51 PM) i presume its blistering sands? never browse TL so i didnt see lol. maybe ive came across youtube or something, but honestly cant remember the one xenofreak mentionedif he open with a zergling rush, i think u can safely assume that his roach would be slightly delayed... with that, throw down a forge and get 1-2 cannons over there... cannons work wonders against roaches due to their low range... this play is actually very well known of HuK (u often hear TL people talking bout it)... he would transition from gateway into 2 stargate with the speed upgrade vs terran... for defense, he'll charge up his VRs on his own units and for offense he'll do the same with some micro to keep it charged up to his opponent's base... he did state that getting ur VRs count to 6 with some micro is pretty deadly including burning thors down in less than 3 seconds LOL... this is contrast to hasu's carrier late game... both works actually but VRs are cheaper to mass up... |
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Aug 13 2010, 05:15 PM
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Junior Member
22 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Cheras, Selangor & Northpoint, Midvalley
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Here are some of my tips
My 2 cents.1) Watch Day9 TV. So many protoss tips, there's a whiteRA series there which go into build order for protoss against each race. 2) Prepare a general plan for each race match ups (e.g. PvP, I will gate-core, stalker pressure then 4 gate push.. PvZ, 2 gate zealot pressure, into 3 gate robo or 4gate HT.. PvT gate-core and fast 4 gate push) 3) I know all these strategies are not perfect against each race. This is where you KEEP DOING and Perfecting the build orders and watch your replays to explore the timing window (when is good time to push or pull back and how to respond) 4) Find out what counters your build then find out what counters those. 5) Most importantly, I keep a list of reminders next to my screen with things I need to remember (e.g. Supply!! Probe Count!! Macro (never let mineral go higher than 300-400)) 6) PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE. get people who are better than you to practice your builds so that you can learn from losing. "Losing is winning, because through it you learn where you go wrong and improve." & "Winning doesn't mean you are good, there's ALWAYS room for improvement." |
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Aug 13 2010, 06:37 PM
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Senior Member
1,393 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Dust
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QUOTE(aLertz @ Aug 13 2010, 04:24 PM) link link?? It happen a few hours ago during the Gosucoaching Weekly Finals #8I will post the youtube video if got any. |
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Aug 13 2010, 06:45 PM
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Junior Member
59 posts Joined: May 2009
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QUOTE(XenoFr3ak @ Aug 13 2010, 03:48 PM) Today i saw Huk did an unexpected strat, He got around 5 Void Rays (i think), the opponent with 10 mauraders, 3 medivac and 5 vikings, all coming to Huk gold expansion, and what Huk did was, he uses his Void Rays to destroy his own Nexus at the gold to full charged up his Void Rays and then kill all his opponent units. OMFG, that's genius! Never thought of thatNow i know why Huk is #1 currently in the whole US region. |
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Aug 13 2010, 06:48 PM
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Senior Member
1,393 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Dust
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QUOTE(Mio4Ever @ Aug 13 2010, 06:45 PM) OMFG, that's genius! Never thought of that Later u see the video, u will be as shock as his opponent as well. |
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Aug 13 2010, 07:20 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(Mio4Ever @ Aug 13 2010, 06:45 PM) OMFG, that's genius! Never thought of that umm whitera did a lot of that tooeven i pulled off a couple of it (rofl scrap station) |
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Aug 13 2010, 07:45 PM
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Senior Member
1,393 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Dust
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Have u guys seen a mothership rush between pro players vs pro players on Steppes of War ?
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/8895107 This post has been edited by XenoFr3ak: Aug 13 2010, 07:53 PM |
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Aug 14 2010, 05:41 PM
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All Stars
10,859 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Sarawak
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how to counter zerg mutalisk? so hard sometimes they own my probe
so as banshee. Then just now fought a terran who build a barracks in the beginning... marine few come then die >< let me know some tips |
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Aug 14 2010, 05:48 PM
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Senior Member
1,185 posts Joined: Aug 2005
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QUOTE(XenoFr3ak @ Aug 13 2010, 07:45 PM) Have u guys seen a mothership rush between pro players vs pro players on Steppes of War ? saw this lol. wat a baller.http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/8895107 @zerg mutalisk? stalkers, psionic storms, maybe carriers? so much of theory-crafting but at the end of the day, its your management. learn to control the game flow, always ahead of enemy, manage your economy and troops healthy, pull some kites. etc etc |
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Aug 14 2010, 06:01 PM
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Junior Member
86 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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QUOTE(ben3003 @ Aug 14 2010, 05:41 PM) how to counter zerg mutalisk? so hard sometimes they own my probe pheonix works... and scout moar... build some cannons around the mineral line works too so as banshee. Then just now fought a terran who build a barracks in the beginning... marine few come then die >< let me know some tips |
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Aug 16 2010, 05:48 AM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(xiaosin @ Aug 14 2010, 06:01 PM) pheonix works... and scout moar... build some cannons around the mineral line works too or pylons, and warp stalkers in |
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Aug 16 2010, 12:41 PM
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Senior Member
2,657 posts Joined: Feb 2008 From: Highbury House, 75 Drayton Park, London
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QUOTE(XenoFr3ak @ Aug 13 2010, 07:45 PM) Have u guys seen a mothership rush between pro players vs pro players on Steppes of War ? Wah.. mothership power! Must try tonite... hahaha http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/8895107 |
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Aug 16 2010, 04:05 PM
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Senior Member
1,111 posts Joined: Mar 2005 From: TaiPinG / Singapore
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he is so gooooooooodddddddd ~
da mothership strat was executed perfectly... + sentry prism block and pylon to warp... not to say cannons sumore perfect gameplay ~ totally pwn ~ lolz... and i didn't knw of the "different animation" when building mothership...lolz This post has been edited by aLertz: Aug 16 2010, 04:05 PM |
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Aug 17 2010, 01:10 PM
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Junior Member
59 posts Joined: May 2009
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QUOTE(ben3003 @ Aug 14 2010, 05:41 PM) how to counter zerg mutalisk? so hard sometimes they own my probe Mass pheonixes owns mutalisk hard! so as banshee. Then just now fought a terran who build a barracks in the beginning... marine few come then die >< let me know some tips |
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Aug 17 2010, 11:18 PM
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Junior Member
90 posts Joined: Dec 2006
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can someone share with me what strategy you used when battling with terran...??? i find it difficult to win against terran.... always loss with the m&m.... terran are too unpredictable... reapers, banshee, m&m, siege tank, miedivacs... which one should i focus for??
This post has been edited by zariel: Aug 17 2010, 11:19 PM |
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Aug 18 2010, 12:06 AM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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As far as I can say... don't play defensive against Terrans. Scout early and see what they're going for. Most Terrans would be blocking their entrance early on. So, quickly pump Stalkers quickly so that you can harass their blockade. Even if you can't do much, irritate them as much would be good too.
Although Stalkers are fairly weak against Marauders and Marines, they're better off with a couple of Sentries backing you up. If you notice the Terran player has no early detectors, tech up quickly to DTs to harass them off. Just send multiple DTs in every direction so much so that it renders their scan useless, more or less. Otherwise, try to finish up a Terran quickly, if BCs come to play, it'll be a real pain to deal with. |
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Aug 18 2010, 01:00 AM
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Junior Member
90 posts Joined: Dec 2006
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thanks for the reply...
i think i need to practice using sentries.... i loss all game with terran because of the m&m... lol plat guys know already the DT trick.... they put detector (i mean the patriot missile...) all over their base - its cheap.. and i can even go into their base using observer.... and one attack using m&m, im screwed.... harras their blockade using stalkers early on.... i think this one i can try... This post has been edited by zariel: Aug 18 2010, 01:02 AM |
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Aug 18 2010, 03:00 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 18 2010, 12:06 AM) As far as I can say... don't play defensive against Terrans. Scout early and see what they're going for. Most Terrans would be blocking their entrance early on. So, quickly pump Stalkers quickly so that you can harass their blockade. Even if you can't do much, irritate them as much would be good too. blink stalkers > BCs especially if u focus fire...Although Stalkers are fairly weak against Marauders and Marines, they're better off with a couple of Sentries backing you up. If you notice the Terran player has no early detectors, tech up quickly to DTs to harass them off. Just send multiple DTs in every direction so much so that it renders their scan useless, more or less. Otherwise, try to finish up a Terran quickly, if BCs come to play, it'll be a real pain to deal with. in multiplayer games (2v2 etc) its my staple build as they are cheap and efficient (of course some level of micro is required) QUOTE(zariel @ Aug 18 2010, 01:00 AM) thanks for the reply... u can beat MMM with 4 gate, 3 gate robo and quite a number of builds...i think i need to practice using sentries.... i loss all game with terran because of the m&m... lol plat guys know already the DT trick.... they put detector (i mean the patriot missile...) all over their base - its cheap.. and i can even go into their base using observer.... and one attack using m&m, im screwed.... harras their blockade using stalkers early on.... i think this one i can try... positioning is really the key as a badly position army would get u rolled by steamed MMM... here are some of my builds... 4 gate - get u the early army to survive and if there's an opening a winning push - possible transition to DTs for some early harass given the right information of ur opponent - allows easy transition into chargelots and/ or HTs which is a pretty decent answer to MMM 3 gate + robo - decent army size from 3 gate with scouting information from ur observer (control ur observers well and u can sneak in for some information even when he turret his base) - 1 or 2 immortals which deals insane damage to marauders and decent tank - both of the above allows u to do some timely push against the terran (take some game sense though) in breaking their ramps etc - transition into collosus which burns MMs if u are able to protect the collosus (sentries FF, stalker meatshield etc) |
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Aug 18 2010, 03:31 AM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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Gotta remind myself, timing is everything. Timing is everything.
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Aug 18 2010, 07:17 AM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 18 2010, 12:06 AM) As far as I can say... don't play defensive against Terrans. Scout early and see what they're going for. Most Terrans would be blocking their entrance early on. So, quickly pump Stalkers quickly so that you can harass their blockade. Even if you can't do much, irritate them as much would be good too. orbital scans are fairly early enough, and if they manage to scout dt outta you, turrets will be up lolAlthough Stalkers are fairly weak against Marauders and Marines, they're better off with a couple of Sentries backing you up. If you notice the Terran player has no early detectors, tech up quickly to DTs to harass them off. Just send multiple DTs in every direction so much so that it renders their scan useless, more or less. Otherwise, try to finish up a Terran quickly, if BCs come to play, it'll be a real pain to deal with. stalkers own bc, so i wouldnt be too worried if they do come (hell, why you let terran get bc? lol) its mech play that im more worried lol sure, immortal is an answer to it, but even siege tanks CAN rape them, and immortals arent cheap and takes so long to build even with chrono Added on August 18, 2010, 7:29 am anyways uploaded moar replays lol: lol cannons from fasteagle gg hatch/lair lol just spam moar stalkers This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 18 2010, 07:29 AM |
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Aug 18 2010, 10:28 AM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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Adoi. Have been on a losing streak past few days. Demoralized already.
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Aug 18 2010, 10:30 AM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 18 2010, 10:28 AM) Adoi. Have been on a losing streak past few days. Demoralized already. tolong first post kan lol |
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Aug 18 2010, 10:37 AM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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Told you demoralized. No mood.
 Added. By the way, added a vid on the front page on countering M&Ms. This post has been edited by incx: Aug 18 2010, 10:42 AM |
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Aug 18 2010, 10:57 AM
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Junior Member
90 posts Joined: Dec 2006
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 18 2010, 10:37 AM) Told you demoralized. No mood. gotta learn it fast.... this m&m really annoying....Added. By the way, added a vid on the front page on countering M&Ms. can turret attack our collosus??? i always used stallker at max..... maybe thats the problem.... thanks evofantasy... dont have problem with bc actually... cause usually, i upgrade my forge and play stallker to the max.... lol.... |
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Aug 18 2010, 11:09 AM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 18 2010, 10:37 AM) Told you demoralized. No mood. thanks, will take a look Added. By the way, added a vid on the front page on countering M&Ms. |
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Aug 18 2010, 02:45 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(zariel @ Aug 18 2010, 10:57 AM) gotta learn it fast.... this m&m really annoying.... yes colossus is counted as a air unit as wellcan turret attack our collosus??? i always used stallker at max..... maybe thats the problem.... thanks evofantasy... dont have problem with bc actually... cause usually, i upgrade my forge and play stallker to the max.... lol.... |
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Aug 18 2010, 03:06 PM
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Forum Admin
44,415 posts Joined: Jan 2003 
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today i play 2vs2 medium AI.
end up 2P vs 2Z la. fine, i rush attack the 1st Z, holding off the support of 2nd Z and held ground well. after so much combat, i see my partner doing housing development project. aihhhhhh............ ok fine. i mass up my forces and keep pressing the other Z. until the end, the fella so far i think kena attack once only by AI, that also i took the opportunity to rush into AI base. in the end i do all the work. i whacked 127 units, he whacked only 23. (mostly zerglings i think) i whacked every single structure of 2 bases (32 in all) while he whacked none. nice, i see the fella got colossus some more. aihhhh. |
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Aug 18 2010, 03:17 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 18 2010, 03:06 PM) today i play 2vs2 medium AI. merperragingkan lorhend up 2P vs 2Z la. fine, i rush attack the 1st Z, holding off the support of 2nd Z and held ground well. after so much combat, i see my partner doing housing development project. aihhhhhh............ ok fine. i mass up my forces and keep pressing the other Z. until the end, the fella so far i think kena attack once only by AI, that also i took the opportunity to rush into AI base. in the end i do all the work. i whacked 127 units, he whacked only 23. (mostly zerglings i think) i whacked every single structure of 2 bases (32 in all) while he whacked none. nice, i see the fella got colossus some more. aihhhh. |
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Aug 18 2010, 06:23 PM
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Junior Member
90 posts Joined: Dec 2006
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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 18 2010, 03:06 PM) today i play 2vs2 medium AI. maybe he usually play fps and camping all the time... lol...end up 2P vs 2Z la. fine, i rush attack the 1st Z, holding off the support of 2nd Z and held ground well. after so much combat, i see my partner doing housing development project. aihhhhhh............ ok fine. i mass up my forces and keep pressing the other Z. until the end, the fella so far i think kena attack once only by AI, that also i took the opportunity to rush into AI base. in the end i do all the work. i whacked 127 units, he whacked only 23. (mostly zerglings i think) i whacked every single structure of 2 bases (32 in all) while he whacked none. nice, i see the fella got colossus some more. aihhhh. i still cant beat those m&m.... 2 colossus or 3 colossus are enough?? i want to finish him off quickly.... i loss all last 8 battle against terran including custom match... against gold player some more.... pity to me.... luckily there are many protoss and zerg player compare to terran... --------- lol i think i just practicing with the ai m&m.... thanks anyway.... This post has been edited by zariel: Aug 18 2010, 07:10 PM |
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Aug 18 2010, 06:36 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(zariel @ Aug 18 2010, 06:23 PM) maybe he usually play fps and camping all the time... lol... immortal/colo/stalkers/chargelotsi still cant beat those m&m.... 2 colossus or 3 colossus are enough?? i want to finish him off quickly.... i loss all last 8 battle against terran including custom match... against gold player some more.... pity to me.... luckily there are many protoss and zerg player compare to terran... |
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Aug 18 2010, 06:56 PM
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Senior Member
1,925 posts Joined: Feb 2006 From: Petaling Jaya
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Guys what are your tactics for toss so far?
Mine would be rushing for VR's then got 2 then straight go charge. So far its not been doing well for me already, if going againsts terran sure lose coz got marines, if go againsts toss they got their anti-air. So whats another good strat for an early/mid game? |
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Aug 18 2010, 08:41 PM
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Newbie
5 posts Joined: May 2008
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QUOTE maybe he usually play fps and camping all the time... lol... i still cant beat those m&m.... 2 colossus or 3 colossus are enough?? i want to finish him off quickly.... i loss all last 8 battle against terran including custom match... against gold player some more.... pity to me.... luckily there are many protoss and zerg player compare to terran... --------- lol i think i just practicing with the ai m&m.... thanks anyway.... If Colossus aren't working you could also use High Templar to Storm the m&m. Just be careful of Ghosts. Colossus can be sniped by Vikings which the Terran can easily make from the Starport he uses to make Medivacs, so sometimes Templar are better. |
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Aug 18 2010, 10:36 PM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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QUOTE(Kerry1136 @ Aug 18 2010, 06:56 PM) Guys what are your tactics for toss so far? It depends on what's your opponent is going for. I always have trouble going against zerg players though.Mine would be rushing for VR's then got 2 then straight go charge. So far its not been doing well for me already, if going againsts terran sure lose coz got marines, if go againsts toss they got their anti-air. So whats another good strat for an early/mid game? Recently I used a build order, which apparently was supposed to be the general BO that every protoss users use, but seems like I'm ending in losing streaks. Gah. 9 Pylon 12 Gateway 13 Gas / Gateway 15 Cybernetics so on and so forth... Somehow I felt like having to wait till 9 probes for Pylon, isn't a bit tad too slow? |
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Aug 19 2010, 01:02 AM
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Junior Member
90 posts Joined: Dec 2006
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 18 2010, 10:36 PM) It depends on what's your opponent is going for. I always have trouble going against zerg players though. i dont think its a bit slow for 9 probes for pylon... plus u get more minerals while only sacrifying 2-3 seconds.... Recently I used a build order, which apparently was supposed to be the general BO that every protoss users use, but seems like I'm ending in losing streaks. Gah. 9 Pylon 12 Gateway 13 Gas / Gateway 15 Cybernetics so on and so forth... Somehow I felt like having to wait till 9 probes for Pylon, isn't a bit tad too slow? i just find out that u need at least 28 probe for one base... is that correct?? or more?? losing streak?? by cheese?? need to scout first... i think that build order is for game with terran.... cause i just learn that build order today.... and....  lol.... i got my first win against terran diamond player summore ... lol with colossus.... colossus ftw!!! he want to spam me with bc and nuke.... and my stalker whacked his bc while my colossus killed his ghost...  hahahahahahahahaha ... thanks to the vid in the first page  ....This post has been edited by zariel: Aug 19 2010, 01:07 AM |
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Aug 19 2010, 10:16 AM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 18 2010, 10:36 PM) It depends on what's your opponent is going for. I always have trouble going against zerg players though. 9 pylon is ok. but if you know you're against zerg, or damn scared of dealing with zerg and ur opponent is random, SCOUT. see that 6 pool being laid? get a 8 py and start narrowing ur choke to fill it up with zealots. straight stalkers wont work against anything not over 13pool (12,11,10,9,8,7,6 kolam renang you name it basically lol) Recently I used a build order, which apparently was supposed to be the general BO that every protoss users use, but seems like I'm ending in losing streaks. Gah. 9 Pylon 12 Gateway 13 Gas / Gateway 15 Cybernetics so on and so forth... Somehow I felt like having to wait till 9 probes for Pylon, isn't a bit tad too slow? and even when you got stalkers, do not even bother aggression against zerg whom you KNOW is still massing lings and potentially upgrading speed upgrade if you haven't gotten your blink researched. basically once core done, spam chrono on warp and blink and later on weapon upgrade only lol. btw my 2nd gate comes out slower, in favor of faster cybernetics. in typically BO, i basically swap my gate with ur cybernetics. then eventually 1-2 more gate depending if i wanna 3 (sometimes even staying JUST 2) gate or 4 gate with robo/stargates |
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Aug 19 2010, 11:49 PM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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Somehow getting used to the BO already. Resource comes in pretty fast using this current build.
Anyway, updated the front page with some gameplay vids. And here's 2 replays from me. One for Sichiri as requested. Tele Play Tele Play 2 Both similar gameplay styles but against Terran and Protoss. This one's for Sich. DTs & Chargelots And I'm still on a losing streak. This post has been edited by incx: Aug 19 2010, 11:50 PM |
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Aug 20 2010, 01:21 AM
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Senior Member
1,393 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Dust
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So sad, all Protoss players has been eliminated in the IEM tournament, WhiteRA and Huk did not make it
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Aug 20 2010, 08:19 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(XenoFr3ak @ Aug 20 2010, 01:21 AM) So sad, all Protoss players has been eliminated in the IEM tournament, WhiteRA and Huk did not make it well whitera did played badly and he was cheesed vs madfrog at steppes of war lol...i find huk doing well especially when he beat tarson but no luck i guess... 3 way tie for 2nd place in group C as well =( |
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Aug 20 2010, 09:10 AM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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Anyway way to counter Thor other than Immortal?
My 24 stalkers lost to 5 Thor with 5 scvs behind repairing it =.= |
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Aug 20 2010, 09:15 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Aug 20 2010, 09:10 AM) Anyway way to counter Thor other than Immortal? chargelots, HT's feedback, voidrays (need to micro em to spread though)My 24 stalkers lost to 5 Thor with 5 scvs behind repairing it =.= |
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Aug 20 2010, 09:31 AM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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lol...i just lost a game yesterday when i have 10 stalkers + 4 sentries + 20 zealots lose to mass mm +3 thors + 2 medivacs + 2 raven...
I have chargelots and also lvl2 weapn upgrade =.= maybe coz cant micro too much due to lag screen... Time's to change a new comp...zzzz |
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Aug 20 2010, 09:57 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Aug 20 2010, 09:31 AM) lol...i just lost a game yesterday when i have 10 stalkers + 4 sentries + 20 zealots lose to mass mm +3 thors + 2 medivacs + 2 raven... hmmm i think his army is much bigger than urs...I have chargelots and also lvl2 weapn upgrade =.= maybe coz cant micro too much due to lag screen... Time's to change a new comp...zzzz from wut u tell me, ur army feels small especially compared to the MM ball... |
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Aug 20 2010, 10:06 AM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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hmmm..his units are almost same with me..which is about 70 to 68 for me (supply units count)
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Aug 20 2010, 10:12 AM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Aug 20 2010, 10:06 AM) hmmm..his units are almost same with me..which is about 70 to 68 for me (supply units count) reviewed the replay already? |
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Aug 20 2010, 10:32 AM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 20 2010, 10:12 AM) reviewed the replay already? yea..i watched every replay i lost..learn from mistakes..but i never stop mistakes lol |
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Aug 20 2010, 10:38 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Aug 20 2010, 10:06 AM) hmmm..his units are almost same with me..which is about 70 to 68 for me (supply units count) most of ur units are T1 and cost 2 supply each...when he's up to the thor tech backed by MMM ball... does he have steam? cause that's such a high dps boost... maybe u should have do a timing push when ur charge and +1 is done instead of waiting for +2 with T1 units? This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 20 2010, 10:39 AM |
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Aug 20 2010, 10:51 AM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Aug 20 2010, 10:32 AM) yea..i watched every replay i lost.. 20 zealots? imho you need to get ur more stalker and less zealots at this point, have the stalkers to blink in (not directly over the thors, just in range if they arent, speed is everything) + snipe the thors, they must be taken out immediately. then after the thors done, deal with the medivacs. so at least stim packs will slowly kill his MM ball by itself even IF you're gonna lose that confrontation. the zealots will have to deal with the MM ball themselves and refrain them from attacking thors, let the stalkers deal with it.learn from mistakes..but i never stop mistakes lol last but not least, while its damn hard to blink focus fires from stim packed MM, do try at least. if he isnt focus firing and are scattering his dps around, then your chances of stalker survival goes up tremendously. ignore the zealots though, they are your meatshield and your primary dps against MM, the terran will have to choose between your zealots or your stalkers and either choice you have the advantage. Added on August 20, 2010, 10:51 am QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 20 2010, 10:38 AM) most of ur units are T1 and cost 2 supply each... STIM(ulant) packs. FFS.when he's up to the thor tech backed by MMM ball... does he have steam? cause that's such a high dps boost... maybe u should have do a timing push when ur charge and +1 is done instead of waiting for +2 with T1 units? This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 20 2010, 10:51 AM |
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Aug 20 2010, 11:03 AM
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Senior Member
1,191 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Kepong, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 20 2010, 10:51 AM) STIM(ulant) packs. FFS.  LOL! |
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Aug 20 2010, 11:06 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 20 2010, 10:51 AM) 20 zealots? imho you need to get ur more stalker and less zealots at this point, have the stalkers to blink in (not directly over the thors, just in range if they arent, speed is everything) + snipe the thors, they must be taken out immediately. then after the thors done, deal with the medivacs. so at least stim packs will slowly kill his MM ball by itself even IF you're gonna lose that confrontation. the zealots will have to deal with the MM ball themselves and refrain them from attacking thors, let the stalkers deal with it. >.<last but not least, while its damn hard to blink focus fires from stim packed MM, do try at least. if he isnt focus firing and are scattering his dps around, then your chances of stalker survival goes up tremendously. ignore the zealots though, they are your meatshield and your primary dps against MM, the terran will have to choose between your zealots or your stalkers and either choice you have the advantage. Added on August 20, 2010, 10:51 am STIM(ulant) packs. FFS. used to typing steam over stim lol... blame the dictionary function =p |
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Aug 20 2010, 03:10 PM
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Junior Member
162 posts Joined: Aug 2007 From: Pearl of The Orient
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Just lost 2 games to Terran players... once again its the MM ball ... .haihz. MM Ball + Medivac and 2 siege tanks = gg for me.
For some reason i never won against terran players. When u try to get close, u get pounded by marauders, when ure far away siege tanks eat you up. I had around 10 zealots and 8 stalkers, and 2 carriers, his MM ball comes and destroys everything lol. He stimpacked his marines to destroy my carriers ( which happened REALLY fast ), and chewed everything else with Marauders. DAMN i hate marauders SOOO much. Think i should have gotten high templars instead of carriers. Bad investment there... Instead of 2 carriers i couldve gotten 2 highs and 2 darks... use the dark to flank them, and chargelots to tank... psi to finish them off or sumthing. But then again, i have bad apm. |
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Aug 20 2010, 03:20 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(noob4life @ Aug 20 2010, 03:10 PM) Just lost 2 games to Terran players... once again its the MM ball ... .haihz. MM Ball + Medivac and 2 siege tanks = gg for me. you said it urself, carrier was ur probFor some reason i never won against terran players. When u try to get close, u get pounded by marauders, when ure far away siege tanks eat you up. I had around 10 zealots and 8 stalkers, and 2 carriers, his MM ball comes and destroys everything lol. He stimpacked his marines to destroy my carriers ( which happened REALLY fast ), and chewed everything else with Marauders. DAMN i hate marauders SOOO much. Think i should have gotten high templars instead of carriers. Bad investment there... Instead of 2 carriers i couldve gotten 2 highs and 2 darks... use the dark to flank them, and chargelots to tank... psi to finish them off or sumthing. But then again, i have bad apm. |
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Aug 20 2010, 03:29 PM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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Is high templar good against Marauders? If I'm not mistaken, the psi storm damaged is significantly reduced by the Marauders' armors.
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Aug 20 2010, 03:30 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 20 2010, 03:20 PM) you said it urself, carrier was ur prob reason why people dun go carriers unless u are hasuorb |
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Aug 20 2010, 03:31 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 20 2010, 03:29 PM) Is high templar good against Marauders? If I'm not mistaken, the psi storm damaged is significantly reduced by the Marauders' armors. armor doesnt help AFAIK, however, its not that its bad against rauder, its rauders having lotsa hp. but that does NOT mean psi storm is bad. if any thing, marines would get raped almost instantly, leaving just rauders to be dealt with and zealots eat them for breakfast with charge upgraded.dont forget stalkers ALSO deal slight dmg bonus to armored too. which is also what makes them so god damn versatile |
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Aug 20 2010, 03:32 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 20 2010, 03:29 PM) Is high templar good against Marauders? If I'm not mistaken, the psi storm damaged is significantly reduced by the Marauders' armors. storm deals same damage the target's armor for each tick...doesn't reduce much... its still the highest DPS for ur army while ur zealots chop away |
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Aug 20 2010, 03:35 PM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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I should try practicing using HTs now. Out of the many games I played, I don't even remember using them more than twice.
But that's because most vids I watch doesn't utilize HTs that much. So it somewhat got neglected. |
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Aug 20 2010, 03:35 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 20 2010, 03:35 PM) I should try practicing using HTs now. Out of the many games I played, I don't even remember using them more than twice. i hate casters, thats why i dont use em. but rest assured if im forced to, i will lol.But that's because most vids I watch doesn't utilize HTs that much. So it somewhat got neglected. |
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Aug 20 2010, 03:47 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 20 2010, 03:35 PM) i hate casters, thats why i dont use em. but rest assured if im forced to, i will lol. well there's always the robo build without much casting needed |
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Aug 20 2010, 04:35 PM
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Junior Member
162 posts Joined: Aug 2007 From: Pearl of The Orient
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I have a slight problem being i can't warp in HTs + research psi storm fast enough to counter his MM army...
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Aug 20 2010, 04:38 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(noob4life @ Aug 20 2010, 04:35 PM) I have a slight problem being i can't warp in HTs + research psi storm fast enough to counter his MM army... HT is quite timing dependent due to the amount of resource u need...thus always scout to see when u can safely get it... at times its better to get more gateway army than forcing HTs... |
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Aug 20 2010, 05:30 PM
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Senior Member
791 posts Joined: Jul 2008
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 20 2010, 04:38 PM) HT is quite timing dependent due to the amount of resource u need... I outnumbered the amount of MM forces with my stalkers and I die miserably. Especially when they're on stim pack. And so far the only way I manage to counter MM is 16 stalkers, 3 immortal and 2 HT (time was a pure matter, as a bit of delay and you might not even have 1 with enough energy when MM comes in). Takes down any amount of MM forces I've seen so far. When there's a backup of siege, chargelot is needed for sure. And be sure you have collosus against MM+ Thor (be sure you have enough HTs for SCVs repairing thors). But diamond players would push you hard while you're getting HT with a small amount of MM in which you would either end up having all stalkers you have at that time dead. I don't think there's a guarantee sure win against MM. It's just how you deal with it.thus always scout to see when u can safely get it... at times its better to get more gateway army than forcing HTs... |
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Aug 20 2010, 06:35 PM
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Senior Member
2,446 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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Do not worry against Terran, most of the time I win against them but there are times when you lose,
Last time when I just started i lost alot to MMM strategies but now in the diamond league i face harder terrans that just dont go MMM I feel that MMM has their limit to a point, try to add sentries to your unit line up it really does help splitting their army in to two and kill the 1st half n ur stalkers are able to chase the 2nd half if he tries to flee.. sentrys are one of the best protoss units and very under rated imo.. its guardian shields are great against marines but soso against marauders go for pheonix to harass scvs and graviton beam (hopefully i got this right) to nulify siege tanks i hope my explanation helped you guys out |
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Aug 20 2010, 07:24 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Calvin Seak @ Aug 20 2010, 06:35 PM) Do not worry against Terran, most of the time I win against them but there are times when you lose, true guardian shield + FF can help u break the MM army...Last time when I just started i lost alot to MMM strategies but now in the diamond league i face harder terrans that just dont go MMM I feel that MMM has their limit to a point, try to add sentries to your unit line up it really does help splitting their army in to two and kill the 1st half n ur stalkers are able to chase the 2nd half if he tries to flee.. sentrys are one of the best protoss units and very under rated imo.. its guardian shields are great against marines but soso against marauders go for pheonix to harass scvs and graviton beam (hopefully i got this right) to nulify siege tanks i hope my explanation helped you guys out u can FF ur ramp and tech to colossi as well... |
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Aug 21 2010, 01:41 PM
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Junior Member
90 posts Joined: Dec 2006
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i think tech up to colossi is the way to win against m&m player... but make sure they are using m&m plan by scouting them usually 2-3 barracks with gathering gases early in the game... sometimes they like to cheese using reapers or marine+meadivacs... and i think terran player like to kill our probe before we can have a healthy economy....
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Aug 22 2010, 01:46 PM
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Junior Member
17 posts Joined: May 2010
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cannon rush !!
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Aug 22 2010, 05:25 PM
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Junior Member
314 posts Joined: May 2007
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QUOTE(vis.vls @ Aug 22 2010, 01:46 PM) cannon rush !! I notice alot SEA player love using Zealot rush ! 3straight row vs protoss and all they use is zealot rush against me while im protoss too lol so both rush n i win them twice n lose once..sighno better strategy =.= |
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Aug 22 2010, 05:38 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Tsj261 @ Aug 22 2010, 05:25 PM) I notice alot SEA player love using Zealot rush ! 3straight row vs protoss and all they use is zealot rush against me while im protoss too lol so both rush n i win them twice n lose once..sigh lots of cheese in SEA imho...no better strategy =.= thus scouting early is a must unlike beta when u can scout after dropping a gate... |
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Aug 22 2010, 06:20 PM
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Forum Admin
44,415 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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hrm. play vs zerg player today, wrong move by using 3 pylons to block entrance. LOL. i donno why i did that. should've block with gateway or something else.
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Aug 22 2010, 06:23 PM
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Senior Member
1,605 posts Joined: Nov 2008
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Is colossus the best unit in the game? How to counter? I feel that once colossus come out got 3 or4 then all ground unit will be burnt to death liao
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Aug 22 2010, 06:26 PM
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Forum Admin
44,415 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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banshees / vikings / siege tanks take them down easily.
air units can hit it (which is a down side) and i find it's good vs infantry instead of armor. bring support along with it and micro, then i think it'll be different............ well that applies for every other unit / race. |
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Aug 22 2010, 06:28 PM
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Senior Member
1,605 posts Joined: Nov 2008
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usually ppl will have air support with colossus la unless noob and if use zerg and din go for air unit sure die against colossus liao.. once protoss out that unit lose liao la.. dunno how to play
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Aug 22 2010, 08:04 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(f4tE @ Aug 22 2010, 06:28 PM) usually ppl will have air support with colossus la unless noob and if use zerg and din go for air unit sure die against colossus liao.. once protoss out that unit lose liao la.. dunno how to play expensive, slow to tech. and by slow i meant thermal lance upgrade too. colo without lance upgrade is worthless as hell :/ |
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Aug 22 2010, 08:19 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 22 2010, 08:04 PM) expensive, slow to tech. and by slow i meant thermal lance upgrade too. colo without lance upgrade is worthless as hell :/ i think cobo (or was it renson) rushed a colossus against me yesterday which jz screw up my 4 gate army with superb colossus micro...but often, when i tried that build, i die before getting my colossus out... big risk big gain type of build imho... |
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Aug 22 2010, 09:32 PM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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Out of 10 protoss players I've played against, 7 of them likes to do that proxy pylon gateway rush to win. It's beginning to be quite predictable.
Although it's becoming quite annoying, but I still succumb to it at times even I've scouted early. Just can't catch up in time. |
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Aug 22 2010, 09:39 PM
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Senior Member
1,605 posts Joined: Nov 2008
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warpgate is a cheat rite? Cuz it makes protoss unit come out so fast like zerg unit.. so is powerful unit that comes out fast.. wtf? no wonder everyone use protoss cuz is most powerful
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Aug 22 2010, 09:40 PM
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Junior Member
314 posts Joined: May 2007
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 22 2010, 08:19 PM) i think cobo (or was it renson) rushed a colossus against me yesterday which jz screw up my 4 gate army with superb colossus micro... for that , you need to make sure they doesnt scount ur base in time and u need def well on the early game , named it use sentries force field or what but still then i don't have the chance go that far yet lol...most ppl love rushing to win n timing its all it countsbut often, when i tried that build, i die before getting my colossus out... big risk big gain type of build imho... |
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Aug 22 2010, 09:49 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 22 2010, 09:32 PM) Out of 10 protoss players I've played against, 7 of them likes to do that proxy pylon gateway rush to win. It's beginning to be quite predictable. jz open with a 2-gate for 1v1 maps...Although it's becoming quite annoying, but I still succumb to it at times even I've scouted early. Just can't catch up in time. i always do 2 gate for 1v1 maps now after my experience with the wcg players... either defensive or aggression, its really flexible and can really punish opponents who chose to tech up... QUOTE(f4tE @ Aug 22 2010, 09:39 PM) warpgate is a cheat rite? Cuz it makes protoss unit come out so fast like zerg unit.. so is powerful unit that comes out fast.. wtf? no wonder everyone use protoss cuz is most powerful troll harder |
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Aug 22 2010, 11:24 PM
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Forum Admin
44,415 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(f4tE @ Aug 22 2010, 09:39 PM) warpgate is a cheat rite? Cuz it makes protoss unit come out so fast like zerg unit.. so is powerful unit that comes out fast.. wtf? no wonder everyone use protoss cuz is most powerful erm. you do know that using warp gate requires micro management? cos you can't queue the build! |
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Aug 22 2010, 11:39 PM
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Junior Member
59 posts Joined: May 2009
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QUOTE(f4tE @ Aug 22 2010, 09:39 PM) warpgate is a cheat rite? Cuz it makes protoss unit come out so fast like zerg unit.. so is powerful unit that comes out fast.. wtf? no wonder everyone use protoss cuz is most powerful I wished colossus was built in warp gates =\ |
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Aug 22 2010, 11:46 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 22 2010, 11:24 PM) erm. you do know that using warp gate requires micro management? cos you can't queue the build! nah he's a big troll...over several sub-forums... |
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Aug 23 2010, 03:20 AM
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Senior Member
682 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: Nearby your house [b]Status: Failed[/b]
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Hey guys, been playing protoss for like.. 3 days?
I have one problem, I just CAN'T counter MMM by T players. any idea please? |
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Aug 23 2010, 03:30 AM
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Forum Admin
44,415 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 22 2010, 11:46 PM) nah he's a big troll... yeah. over several sub-forums... we can see people's track record. nevertheless that post needs an reply, cos warping isn't cheating. |
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Aug 23 2010, 05:52 AM
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Junior Member
266 posts Joined: Oct 2005 From: Shah Alam
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I think people should post their replay when they want to ask for advise. The thing is in RTS every situation are different. Sometimes you lose because your opponent outplayed you using game mechanics alone. Your build order can be wrong because you followed gosu's replay blindly without understanding the reasoning behind it. You might lose because you got supply blocked but you think his army composition beat yours. There's a lot of tactical decision involved in Starcraft, its not as simple as building unit composition A to counter unit composition B.
People shouldn't be ashamed to post their losing replays. No matter where you're at, there's always people better than you. To me thats what makes this game fun. You'll always learn something new everyday, the journey never stops. The analogy i can give is when i play Civilizations i just cant stop. One more turn, one more turn. When i achieved my goals, my thought is "ok thats it, i've won". Then only i realized that achieving my goals is not the fun part but the process to achieve my goals is. |
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Aug 23 2010, 07:41 AM
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Senior Member
4,852 posts Joined: Aug 2006
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QUOTE(syNcv9 @ Aug 23 2010, 03:20 AM) Hey guys, been playing protoss for like.. 3 days? Maybe try Immortals or Colossus?I have one problem, I just CAN'T counter MMM by T players. any idea please? Colossus sort of eat MMM for breakfast, especially if they clump up. Added on August 23, 2010, 7:42 am QUOTE(RtP|DEV @ Aug 23 2010, 05:52 AM) I think people should post their replay when they want to ask for advise. The thing is in RTS every situation are different. Sometimes you lose because your opponent outplayed you using game mechanics alone. Your build order can be wrong because you followed gosu's replay blindly without understanding the reasoning behind it. You might lose because you got supply blocked but you think his army composition beat yours. There's a lot of tactical decision involved in Starcraft, its not as simple as building unit composition A to counter unit composition B. I would be damn happy if someone would actually go through my replays and analyse my replays.People shouldn't be ashamed to post their losing replays. No matter where you're at, there's always people better than you. To me thats what makes this game fun. You'll always learn something new everyday, the journey never stops. The analogy i can give is when i play Civilizations i just cant stop. One more turn, one more turn. When i achieved my goals, my thought is "ok thats it, i've won". Then only i realized that achieving my goals is not the fun part but the process to achieve my goals is. It actually helps a lot if you have someone who is better than you telling you what went wrong. This post has been edited by Cheesenium: Aug 23 2010, 07:42 AM |
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Aug 23 2010, 09:05 AM
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Senior Member
1,191 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Kepong, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.
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QUOTE(Mio4Ever @ Aug 22 2010, 11:39 PM) I wished colossus was built in warp gates =\ I wish you can warp in void rays.  |
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Aug 23 2010, 10:20 AM
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Junior Member
203 posts Joined: Jan 2008 From: Shah Alam
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Hm....got cheesed today by 2 T player going 8/9 Rax.... scouted at 9 after pylon but still too late
guess I need to check my surrounding base and expo for cheese next time as well |
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Aug 23 2010, 10:32 AM
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Junior Member
315 posts Joined: Apr 2008
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perfect counter for MMM = high templars...but you'll need a sentry in base to prevent that early push
it's really hard to fend those off from your base if you don't have a "few" sentries to force field that ramp MMM = op, just IMO and throw in ghost, tanks and vikings is pretty much counters for everything you can use against any race...especially protoss This post has been edited by LostWanderer: Aug 23 2010, 10:33 AM |
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Aug 23 2010, 11:23 AM
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Junior Member
59 posts Joined: May 2009
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QUOTE(ArticFir3 @ Aug 23 2010, 10:20 AM) Hm....got cheesed today by 2 T player going 8/9 Rax.... scouted at 9 after pylon but still too late Yeah, hate it when I scout badly and realized there's one bunker and rax with reactor inside my base, lol. guess I need to check my surrounding base and expo for cheese next time as well |
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Aug 23 2010, 12:15 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(RtP|DEV @ Aug 23 2010, 05:52 AM) I think people should post their replay when they want to ask for advise. The thing is in RTS every situation are different. Sometimes you lose because your opponent outplayed you using game mechanics alone. Your build order can be wrong because you followed gosu's replay blindly without understanding the reasoning behind it. You might lose because you got supply blocked but you think his army composition beat yours. There's a lot of tactical decision involved in Starcraft, its not as simple as building unit composition A to counter unit composition B. yeap. like TLO's radical build orders/play. not easy to follow at all.People shouldn't be ashamed to post their losing replays. No matter where you're at, there's always people better than you. To me thats what makes this game fun. You'll always learn something new everyday, the journey never stops. The analogy i can give is when i play Civilizations i just cant stop. One more turn, one more turn. When i achieved my goals, my thought is "ok thats it, i've won". Then only i realized that achieving my goals is not the fun part but the process to achieve my goals is. Added on August 23, 2010, 12:20 pm QUOTE(Mio4Ever @ Aug 23 2010, 11:23 AM) Yeah, hate it when I scout badly and realized there's one bunker and rax with reactor inside my base, lol. that one not so bad. whats bad is when terran reaper proxy with or even without bunker (with bunker you can early gg ady lol).heres the dilemma: early zealots to fend rushes/proxy yes? wrong. reapers rape zealot. solution is to fast tech stalkers. but here, we're talking about a proxy, where you know, reapers would be at ur gate when ur gateway is just shortly done, so lets not even think about cybernetics. sure, you can scout, but do you realize, that probes do take time to take out tech labs? lol. while im not saying this is impossible to beat as ive done my share of beating said proxies. but i've pulled a number of these myself and the winrate is fairly high lol This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 23 2010, 12:20 PM |
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Aug 23 2010, 01:54 PM
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Senior Member
1,605 posts Joined: Nov 2008
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hi, i wanna ask is stalker or phoenix better against air? I compare and see stalker damage more than phoenix and shoot faster. stalker oso cheaper. So shud i use stalker instead of pheonix? Cuz i only go for ground unit and uprgade ground stuff only. WIll be watse to upgrade just because i use phoenix.
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Aug 23 2010, 01:59 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(f4tE @ Aug 23 2010, 01:54 PM) hi, i wanna ask is stalker or phoenix better against air? I compare and see stalker damage more than phoenix and shoot faster. stalker oso cheaper. So shud i use stalker instead of pheonix? Cuz i only go for ground unit and uprgade ground stuff only. WIll be watse to upgrade just because i use phoenix. stalker less micro needed. phoenix need to micro (run away and shoot, works wonders against mutas/corruptors but not vikings lol)but consider this: ground unit less mobility (blink on cooldown) and air unit, in particular phoenixes, moves really fast and can cover a lot of ground |
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Aug 23 2010, 02:03 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 23 2010, 12:15 PM) yeap. like TLO's radical build orders/play. not easy to follow at all. LOL even when u go for a fast stalker, if he open with a marauder instead of reaper u are screwed as well...Added on August 23, 2010, 12:20 pm that one not so bad. whats bad is when terran reaper proxy with or even without bunker (with bunker you can early gg ady lol). heres the dilemma: early zealots to fend rushes/proxy yes? wrong. reapers rape zealot. solution is to fast tech stalkers. but here, we're talking about a proxy, where you know, reapers would be at ur gate when ur gateway is just shortly done, so lets not even think about cybernetics. sure, you can scout, but do you realize, that probes do take time to take out tech labs? lol. while im not saying this is impossible to beat as ive done my share of beating said proxies. but i've pulled a number of these myself and the winrate is fairly high lol the common terran cheese is 1 reaper into a marauder which is a pain to micro against... |
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Aug 23 2010, 02:15 PM
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Junior Member
203 posts Joined: Jan 2008 From: Shah Alam
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Phoenix has the mobility and air superiority. And yeah they're much easier to take down muta/ corruptors due to their 9 range (think as flying collo, just without the massive damage). Not to mention graviton beam is a good harassment ability
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Aug 23 2010, 03:14 PM
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Junior Member
59 posts Joined: May 2009
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QUOTE(f4tE @ Aug 23 2010, 01:54 PM) hi, i wanna ask is stalker or phoenix better against air? I compare and see stalker damage more than phoenix and shoot faster. stalker oso cheaper. So shud i use stalker instead of pheonix? Cuz i only go for ground unit and uprgade ground stuff only. WIll be watse to upgrade just because i use phoenix. Pheonix only good against zerg because they do 20dmg to light units. Against vikings they'll get creamed instantly. Just go stalkers. |
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Aug 23 2010, 03:16 PM
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Forum Admin
44,415 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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ok. assuming 1 vs 1, what do you guys build vs zergling rush and MMM rush?
i tried 4 gateway spam zealots and stalkers, seems to work pretty well 1 on 1. |
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Aug 23 2010, 03:23 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 23 2010, 03:16 PM) ok. assuming 1 vs 1, what do you guys build vs zergling rush and MMM rush? for terran ill stalkers mix sentry for guardian. if resource permit, i will hallu, or 3 gate hallu/chargelots.i tried 4 gateway spam zealots and stalkers, seems to work pretty well 1 on 1. |
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Aug 23 2010, 03:29 PM
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Junior Member
235 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Sydney, NSW
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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 23 2010, 03:16 PM) ok. assuming 1 vs 1, what do you guys build vs zergling rush and MMM rush? add a couple of sentries to wall em off as welli tried 4 gateway spam zealots and stalkers, seems to work pretty well 1 on 1. |
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Aug 23 2010, 03:47 PM
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Senior Member
4,999 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(LengluihunteR @ Aug 23 2010, 03:29 PM) add a couple of sentries to wall em off as well I did that and he came up behind my base with with 3 medivacs full of marines/maruraders instead. With healing, it was pretty much gg. How do you counter that?This post has been edited by Drian: Aug 23 2010, 03:48 PM |
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Aug 23 2010, 04:22 PM
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Senior Member
2,657 posts Joined: Feb 2008 From: Highbury House, 75 Drayton Park, London
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QUOTE(Drian @ Aug 23 2010, 03:47 PM) I did that and he came up behind my base with with 3 medivacs full of marines/maruraders instead. With healing, it was pretty much gg. How do you counter that? Get more Stalkers and Zealots - Research charge/blink and 1-2 sentries... Build a Pylon near the destructible rocks so u know if he's coming round the back |
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Aug 23 2010, 04:57 PM
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Senior Member
1,605 posts Joined: Nov 2008
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wat does zealot charge do? other than make them move faster it say intercept enermies mean wat?
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Aug 23 2010, 05:05 PM
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Junior Member
203 posts Joined: Jan 2008 From: Shah Alam
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QUOTE(f4tE @ Aug 23 2010, 04:57 PM) wat does zealot charge do? other than make them move faster it say intercept enermies mean wat? As the name says, it allows the Zealot to charge into the target enemy. So it reduces the time taken for Zealots to get upclose and melee with the enemy. Without Zealot legs, they won't stand a chance against MMM with stim. Most probably kite to death. |
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Aug 23 2010, 05:07 PM
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Senior Member
1,605 posts Joined: Nov 2008
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what is MMM? So the charge skill is only make them engage enemy faster? I tot got extra damage or attack
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Aug 23 2010, 05:15 PM
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Forum Admin
44,415 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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is there a post from you that's not filled with "?"
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Aug 23 2010, 05:47 PM
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Junior Member
59 posts Joined: May 2009
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QUOTE(f4tE @ Aug 23 2010, 05:07 PM) what is MMM? So the charge skill is only make them engage enemy faster? I tot got extra damage or attack MMM is a 'tactic' used by Terran players where they mass Marines, Marauders and Medivacs ( Hence the name MMM). |
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Aug 23 2010, 05:59 PM
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Senior Member
1,605 posts Joined: Nov 2008
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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 23 2010, 05:15 PM) is there a post from you that's not filled with "?" not in starcraft. Im still noob and learning how to play. Hope i dont get ban for this |
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Aug 23 2010, 06:20 PM
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Junior Member
315 posts Joined: Apr 2008
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charge = a researchable skill from twilight council for zealots to run to it's target and try to slice them up before they slice it up
if it is on low health = a skill for them to run to their deaths... and another thing is that it also can be a skill for you to have your zealot to run like speedy gonzalez on the map and get it shot as it is unable to reach its desired target |
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Aug 23 2010, 09:56 PM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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By the way guys, do you hot keys your buildings? I feel I can't just cope once I reach a number of supplies. That my minerals start to build up, or I just don't know what to do next.
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Aug 23 2010, 10:11 PM
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Senior Member
1,605 posts Joined: Nov 2008
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simply build your unit until your resources 0.. just continue train unit
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Aug 23 2010, 10:19 PM
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Junior Member
378 posts Joined: Feb 2008 From: Kuching, Sarawak
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 23 2010, 09:56 PM) By the way guys, do you hot keys your buildings? I feel I can't just cope once I reach a number of supplies. That my minerals start to build up, or I just don't know what to do next. I hotkey all the same type of building. Eg. CC for 4, Rax for 5, Fac for 6, Starport for 7 etc. Makes your life a hell of easier once you have 50+ units. |
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Aug 23 2010, 10:29 PM
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Junior Member
266 posts Joined: Oct 2005 From: Shah Alam
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 23 2010, 09:56 PM) By the way guys, do you hot keys your buildings? I feel I can't just cope once I reach a number of supplies. That my minerals start to build up, or I just don't know what to do next. W is the hotkey for warpgate.Make sure you match your production building with your economy. If you're on 2 saturated base, 4 warpgates and a robotics is not enough. During mid game, make sure not to get supply blocked. This is how i do it, my own mental checklist during the game: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you're producing units constantly from 3 warpgates, you need to add pylon after a cycle. 3 warpgates = 6 supply per cycle Since build time for 2 probes = 1 warpgate unit build time, thats 2 supply per cycle. So, when you select "W" then press S Z E -> select 4(my nexus hot key) the press "E" "E" -> put a pylon. Then repeat. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If your producing from 6 warpgates and 2 robo, let say you're making colly for PvZ: (2 colly x 6) + (6 wapgates x 2) + 2 probes = 26 suply or 3/4 pylons per cycle. 6(my hotkeys for robo) "C" "C" -> "W" S S S S S S -> 4 "E" "E" -> straight put 3 or 4 pylons. This is the rough estimation of the build time , so always look at your supply count. |
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Aug 23 2010, 10:34 PM
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Senior Member
1,605 posts Joined: Nov 2008
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QUOTE(RtP|DEV @ Aug 23 2010, 10:29 PM) W is the hotkey for warpgate. Make sure you match your production building with your economy. If you're on 2 saturated base, 4 warpgates and a robotics is not enough. During mid game, make sure not to get supply blocked. This is how i do it, my own mental checklist during the game: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you're producing units constantly from 3 warpgates, you need to add pylon after a cycle. 3 warpgates = 6 supply per cycle Since build time for 2 probes = 1 warpgate unit build time, thats 2 supply per cycle. So, when you select "W" then press S Z E -> select 4(my nexus hot key) the press "E" "E" -> put a pylon. Then repeat. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If your producing from 6 warpgates and 2 robo, let say you're making colly for PvZ: (2 colly x 6) + (6 wapgates x 2) + 2 probes = 26 suply or 3/4 pylons per cycle. 6(my hotkeys for robo) "C" "C" -> "W" S S S S S S -> 4 "E" "E" -> straight put 3 or 4 pylons. This is the rough estimation of the build time , so always look at your supply count. this is liek starcraft theory class |
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Aug 23 2010, 10:44 PM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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QUOTE(RtP|DEV @ Aug 23 2010, 10:29 PM) W is the hotkey for warpgate. Thanks a lot for the tip. I'll give it a try. Make sure you match your production building with your economy. If you're on 2 saturated base, 4 warpgates and a robotics is not enough. During mid game, make sure not to get supply blocked. This is how i do it, my own mental checklist during the game: » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « |
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Aug 23 2010, 11:59 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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some general production guide which ur resource can sustain constant unit production...
in other words, anything more would not utilize ur production 100% which is vital for ur macro aspect... 1 base - 4 gate - 3 gate robo (immortal build) - 4 gate robo (no immortal build) - 3 gate 2 stargate (phoenix build) - 3 gate 1 stargate (VR build) 2 base - usually same as 1 base play with 2-3 more gateways while u tech - extra robo/ stargate This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 23 2010, 11:59 PM |
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Aug 24 2010, 02:50 AM
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Junior Member
542 posts Joined: Nov 2004 From: Petaling Jaya
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Guys, a noob question. But advise much appreciated. Let's say I have chrono boost energy at 100/100. I have 4 warp gates and I want to chrono boost 4 warp gates simultaneously at once. Or, on a different scenario, I have 3 nexus around the map, expansions. I want to chrono boost all 3 nexus at once to pump out probes. How do I do it? Do I have to hot key anything?
Please advise. Thanks |
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Aug 24 2010, 03:18 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Phonzy @ Aug 24 2010, 02:50 AM) Guys, a noob question. But advise much appreciated. Let's say I have chrono boost energy at 100/100. I have 4 warp gates and I want to chrono boost 4 warp gates simultaneously at once. Or, on a different scenario, I have 3 nexus around the map, expansions. I want to chrono boost all 3 nexus at once to pump out probes. How do I do it? Do I have to hot key anything? hot key all 3 of ur nexus...Please advise. Thanks then press that hotkey... press c... hold shift... click on the buildings u wanna boost... |
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Aug 24 2010, 05:10 AM
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Junior Member
266 posts Joined: Oct 2005 From: Shah Alam
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 23 2010, 11:59 PM) some general production guide which ur resource can sustain constant unit production... So incx, how not to forget to make all these buildings? Ask yourself, why are you getting an expansion? You don't simply just take an expo for the sake of doing it. Think about it, you don't add these buildings to match your mineral incomes from your expansions. Its the other way around, you get expansions so that you can make more production building to out number your opponent's army. When you have this goal set in your mind, its almost impossible to forget adding more warpgates or robos.in other words, anything more would not utilize ur production 100% which is vital for ur macro aspect... 1 base - 4 gate - 3 gate robo (immortal build) - 4 gate robo (no immortal build) - 3 gate 2 stargate (phoenix build) - 3 gate 1 stargate (VR build) 2 base - usually same as 1 base play with 2-3 more gateways while u tech - extra robo/ stargate |
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Aug 24 2010, 10:19 AM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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is that immortal good to counter ultralisk? i am facing problem with fast expand zerg with zergling and stout def then go for ultralisk hydralisk troops..=/
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Aug 24 2010, 10:58 AM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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QUOTE(RtP|DEV @ Aug 24 2010, 05:10 AM) So incx, how not to forget to make all these buildings? Ask yourself, why are you getting an expansion? You don't simply just take an expo for the sake of doing it. Think about it, you don't add these buildings to match your mineral incomes from your expansions. Its the other way around, you get expansions so that you can make more production building to out number your opponent's army. When you have this goal set in your mind, its almost impossible to forget adding more warpgates or robos. Yup. Keeping it in mind. At least I get the idea of how far should I go with the buildings and all. Thanks again for the advice. |
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Aug 24 2010, 11:06 AM
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Junior Member
203 posts Joined: Jan 2008 From: Shah Alam
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Aug 24 2010, 10:19 AM) is that immortal good to counter ultralisk? i am facing problem with fast expand zerg with zergling and stout def then go for ultralisk hydralisk troops..=/ Yeah immortals are very good against Ultralisk, but does badly against lings. You'll need to have a good mixture of army |
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Aug 24 2010, 11:17 AM
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Senior Member
791 posts Joined: Jul 2008
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I am starting to lose confidence when I had a losing streak to Terran with MM. They do not have medics not medivacs. It was a pure marines and marauders, like 10 marines, 5 marauders and it got me down repeatedly by different players and they claimed to be from bronze league. Are there no better secure way to counter this? Build order isn't my issue I guess. All they do is block while they sped up for marauders with stimpack. Gather 10 marines, 5 marauders then they're off to kick my a**. I had 8 spiders 4 zealots or around there most of the time, but they pawned me real bad. Even if I was able to sweep them out while warping a few more out, they next attack will definitely put me down which is like a minute or two ahead from the first attack. This time, with medivacs and medics.
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Aug 24 2010, 11:23 AM
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Junior Member
203 posts Joined: Jan 2008 From: Shah Alam
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QUOTE(rlinux @ Aug 24 2010, 11:17 AM) I am starting to lose confidence when I had a losing streak to Terran with MM. They do not have medics not medivacs. It was a pure marines and marauders, like 10 marines, 5 marauders and it got me down repeatedly by different players and they claimed to be from bronze league. Are there no better secure way to counter this? Build order isn't my issue I guess. All they do is block while they sped up for marauders with stimpack. Gather 10 marines, 5 marauders then they're off to kick my a**. I had 8 spider 4 zealots or around there most of the time, but they pawned me real bad. Even if I was able to sweep them out while warping a few more out, they next attack will definitely put me down which is like a minute or two ahead from the first attack. This time, with medivacs and medics. Er...you mean Stalkers.....you need sentry to fight against those composition early game. And positioning is important. Else just force field the ramp preventing them from stimming and running up your ramp. Hold them until you get collossus or immortals |
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Aug 24 2010, 11:45 AM
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Senior Member
791 posts Joined: Jul 2008
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Err, yea sorry stalkers. I didn't know how come I typed spiders haha. Sentry is good against MM? I think I did tried last time but they weren't any good. Or just to force field till I get Collossus or Immortals? Perhaps I am just bad in 1v1 :/
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Aug 24 2010, 11:48 AM
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Junior Member
203 posts Joined: Jan 2008 From: Shah Alam
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Well, Marauders do extremely well against Stalkers. And they can kite your Zealots to death using stimpacks. If you have Sentry, you can always force field your ramps to prevent them from going up your ramp. Or use Guardian Shield in a battle to reduce all ranged damage
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Aug 24 2010, 11:54 AM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(rlinux @ Aug 24 2010, 11:17 AM) I am starting to lose confidence when I had a losing streak to Terran with MM. They do not have medics not medivacs. It was a pure marines and marauders, like 10 marines, 5 marauders and it got me down repeatedly by different players and they claimed to be from bronze league. Are there no better secure way to counter this? Build order isn't my issue I guess. All they do is block while they sped up for marauders with stimpack. Gather 10 marines, 5 marauders then they're off to kick my a**. I had 8 spiders 4 zealots or around there most of the time, but they pawned me real bad. Even if I was able to sweep them out while warping a few more out, they next attack will definitely put me down which is like a minute or two ahead from the first attack. This time, with medivacs and medics. how sure are you on this? this could be a factor on how slow/fast your stalkers come out, and/or sentries. and those are your key to MM until you get chargelots (which does take some time)and if they can recover faster than you despite you winning a skirmish, then its ur economy/macro/BO for sure. |
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Aug 24 2010, 11:55 AM
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Junior Member
59 posts Joined: May 2009
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QUOTE(rlinux @ Aug 24 2010, 11:17 AM) I am starting to lose confidence when I had a losing streak to Terran with MM. They do not have medics not medivacs. It was a pure marines and marauders, like 10 marines, 5 marauders and it got me down repeatedly by different players and they claimed to be from bronze league. Are there no better secure way to counter this? Build order isn't my issue I guess. All they do is block while they sped up for marauders with stimpack. Gather 10 marines, 5 marauders then they're off to kick my a**. I had 8 spiders 4 zealots or around there most of the time, but they pawned me real bad. Even if I was able to sweep them out while warping a few more out, they next attack will definitely put me down which is like a minute or two ahead from the first attack. This time, with medivacs and medics. When I have to face this menacing bioball I always have sentries to block off access to the ramp and tech asap to colossi. Once u have a few colossus and an observer, you can easily snipe this MM threat. If they have vikings to counter your colossi, get blink stalkers to counter back. |
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Aug 24 2010, 11:55 AM
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Senior Member
791 posts Joined: Jul 2008
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Perfect suggestion. Will try out guardian shield instead I guess. But yea indeed marauders takes my stalkers as breakfast =.= But terran is hard to predict, and I can't check what he's building in there when they blocked :/ So when I found out with an observer, I was already too late.
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Aug 24 2010, 12:31 PM
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Junior Member
359 posts Joined: Jun 2007
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guys how to counter effectively a mass muta build... ??? void ray are too expensive.. while stalker too slow to chase muta even with blink...and when i build carier they use that air to air zerg unit (forgot its name)...
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Aug 24 2010, 12:34 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(finger_waverz @ Aug 24 2010, 12:31 PM) guys how to counter effectively a mass muta build... ??? void ray are too expensive.. while stalker too slow to chase muta even with blink...and when i build carier they use that air to air zerg unit (forgot its name)... phoenix...they deal 20 damage to light and in big numbers they can harass overlords and even kill mass hydras (nony showed it on TLA) Added on August 24, 2010, 12:36 pm QUOTE(ArticFir3 @ Aug 24 2010, 11:06 AM) Yeah immortals are very good against Ultralisk, but does badly against lings. You'll need to have a good mixture of army ^wut artic said... if u are going the immortal route, u can tech for colossi as well... Added on August 24, 2010, 12:37 pm QUOTE(ArticFir3 @ Aug 24 2010, 11:23 AM) Er...you mean Stalkers.....you need sentry to fight against those composition early game. And positioning is important. Else just force field the ramp preventing them from stimming and running up your ramp. Hold them until you get collossus or immortals wut i did was bait him to stim n run up, they i'll FF cut his army into half while my zealots cut the seperated army...usually after this, he'll go back and regroup from his losses while i'll only loose 2-3 zealots =p This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 24 2010, 12:37 PM |
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Aug 24 2010, 01:03 PM
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Junior Member
162 posts Joined: Aug 2007 From: Pearl of The Orient
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QUOTE(ArticFir3 @ Aug 24 2010, 11:48 AM) Well, Marauders do extremely well against Stalkers. And they can kite your Zealots to death using stimpacks. If you have Sentry, you can always force field your ramps to prevent them from going up your ramp. Or use Guardian Shield in a battle to reduce all ranged damage I usually get more zealots than stalkers when i go against MM... guardian shield can do wonders. Use stalkers to focus down marauders, and let the zealots tank the damage.. make sure ur sentry's guardian shield is affecting d zealots too. You can always get a phoenix or two... and graviton beam the Marauders. The remaining marines will be breakfast for your zealots. 3 marauders is much less painful than 5 marauders. =D I think its really hard to tech to collosus when the MM comes so early... Its faster to get phoenixes. Plus u can scout with phoenix. =D Last but not least, u can always try immortal builds... |
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Aug 24 2010, 01:15 PM
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Senior Member
4,390 posts Joined: Oct 2004 From: Cheras, Malaysia
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Any Idea how guardian shield works? sometimes my unit still die farely fast under GS
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Aug 24 2010, 01:29 PM
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Senior Member
837 posts Joined: Oct 2006 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(rlinux @ Aug 24 2010, 12:17 PM) I am starting to lose confidence when I had a losing streak to Terran with MM. They do not have medics not medivacs. It was a pure marines and marauders, like 10 marines, 5 marauders and it got me down repeatedly by different players and they claimed to be from bronze league. Are there no better secure way to counter this? Build order isn't my issue I guess. All they do is block while they sped up for marauders with stimpack. Gather 10 marines, 5 marauders then they're off to kick my a**. I had 8 spiders 4 zealots or around there most of the time, but they pawned me real bad. Even if I was able to sweep them out while warping a few more out, they next attack will definitely put me down which is like a minute or two ahead from the first attack. This time, with medivacs and medics. Well if they come with Triple or double M make sure you have your Sentry up ! Their force shell and guardian is very good! The guardian reduce 12 or 15% of range dmg and if you notice terran unit is all range unit |
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Aug 24 2010, 01:47 PM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 24 2010, 12:34 PM) wut i did was bait him to stim n run up, they i'll FF cut his army into half while my zealots cut the seperated army... usually after this, he'll go back and regroup from his losses while i'll only loose 2-3 zealots =p Usually when u have 1 or two HT sneak inside their base.they usually get low on energy to scan.. |
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Aug 24 2010, 01:52 PM
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Senior Member
4,999 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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Question is can an equivalent army value of zealots/stalker beat an equivalent value army of Marine/Maurader. 11 marine /5 maurader is equivalent to 5 zealots and 4/3.5 stalker. You can mass maurader quite easily due to the low gas requirement of maurader.
As for force fielding the ramp, I did that and the opponent after being Force field twice switched to 3 medivac drop at base. I think the opponent player is quite "familiar" with the protoss force field counter. It's also quite easy for them to do that as it doesn't require any Tech centre for medivacs. And medivac further complements this Marine/Maurader combo exremely well. Since most of the money is spent teching up to collosus(it's actually quite "early" game). You won't have enough resources to get an army big enough to counter both Marine/maurader through ramp strat and Marine/Maurader/medivac drop at base strat. They can switch easily between both. This post has been edited by Drian: Aug 24 2010, 02:31 PM |
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Aug 24 2010, 02:11 PM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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It depend much on your build order too..I usually come out with 1 observer to scout them early so I can modify my strategy to counter them...
If they are fast tech to tank, I will choose to expand to speed up my economy; or early MM rush, I will have 3-4 sentries to block the ramp till my charge finish tech up. But if they have 2-3 tanks under your ramp...then U have to do a good timing push when the tank wanna move...depend much on your timing to initiate attack. These is what my experience tell me...may varied with others cause I am still a noob |
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Aug 24 2010, 03:16 PM
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Junior Member
59 posts Joined: May 2009
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QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Aug 24 2010, 01:15 PM) Any Idea how guardian shield works? sometimes my unit still die farely fast under GS What guardian shield does is it just reduce incoming range damage by 2(which is crazy a lot,think about a free +2 armor) to units inside the hemispheric shield. |
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Aug 24 2010, 05:59 PM
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Senior Member
1,605 posts Joined: Nov 2008
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I just pawned computer insane with canon rush. I guess protoss is meant for me
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Aug 24 2010, 06:01 PM
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Forum Admin
44,415 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(f4tE @ Aug 24 2010, 05:59 PM) I just pawned computer insane with canon rush. I guess protoss is meant for me erm. that doesn't say a thing about which race suits you. cannon rush is just based on the AI's flaw. |
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Aug 24 2010, 06:04 PM
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Senior Member
1,605 posts Joined: Nov 2008
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But insane AI is the best already. Against normal player they wont know what to do hohoho
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Aug 24 2010, 06:15 PM
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Forum Admin
44,415 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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try not to cannon rush and see if you survive.
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Aug 24 2010, 06:22 PM
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Senior Member
1,605 posts Joined: Nov 2008
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lol.. if no cannon rush then will die against computer insane.
btw, when playing 1v1 is it normal for protoss player to canon rush? seem like everyone is doing that |
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Aug 24 2010, 06:35 PM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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QUOTE(f4tE @ Aug 24 2010, 06:22 PM) lol.. if no cannon rush then will die against computer insane. Once in awhile. More likely to see 4gate pushes or VR rushing.btw, when playing 1v1 is it normal for protoss player to canon rush? seem like everyone is doing that |
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Aug 24 2010, 06:44 PM
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Junior Member
200 posts Joined: Jun 2009
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Any1 know the counter for early zealot rush?
8 pylon 10 gate 12 gate 13 zealot 15 pylon .....some even do earlier gate.....been trying all sort of thing...but fail This post has been edited by xShinji: Aug 24 2010, 06:44 PM |
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Aug 24 2010, 06:46 PM
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Senior Member
1,605 posts Joined: Nov 2008
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QUOTE(ZeratoS @ Aug 24 2010, 06:35 PM) Once in awhile. More likely to see 4gate pushes or VR rushing. What is VR rush?QUOTE(xShinji @ Aug 24 2010, 06:44 PM) Any1 know the counter for early zealot rush? WHat u mean? They fail or u fail? The build order is for u or their rush tactic?8 pylon 10 gate 12 gate 13 zealot 15 pylon .....some even do earlier gate.....been trying all sort of thing...but fail |
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Aug 24 2010, 06:46 PM
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Senior Member
2,446 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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Go for zealots too!
Have they been building pylons in your base? xDAdded on August 24, 2010, 6:51 pmI have problems with zergs This post has been edited by Calvin Seak: Aug 24 2010, 06:51 PM |
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Aug 24 2010, 06:59 PM
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Junior Member
314 posts Joined: May 2007
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QUOTE(f4tE @ Aug 24 2010, 06:46 PM) What is VR rush? VR = Void Ray Rush ! will gg the game in 8-10mins game if you didnt scout his going for air unit. I usually go for VR rush when i c some1 blocking their entranceWHat u mean? They fail or u fail? The build order is for u or their rush tactic? of coz i get myself sentries n few zea/stalker to block off road lolz |
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Aug 24 2010, 07:06 PM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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QUOTE(xShinji @ Aug 24 2010, 06:44 PM) Any1 know the counter for early zealot rush? I think some guy used 2 gate stalker with chrono to counter this. Not quite sure.8 pylon 10 gate 12 gate 13 zealot 15 pylon .....some even do earlier gate.....been trying all sort of thing...but fail |
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Aug 24 2010, 07:14 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(xShinji @ Aug 24 2010, 06:44 PM) Any1 know the counter for early zealot rush? u can either8 pylon 10 gate 12 gate 13 zealot 15 pylon .....some even do earlier gate.....been trying all sort of thing...but fail - scout early - micro (ramp) - forge into cannons - 2 gate with chrono This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 24 2010, 07:14 PM |
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Aug 24 2010, 08:00 PM
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Junior Member
162 posts Joined: Aug 2007 From: Pearl of The Orient
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QUOTE(f4tE @ Aug 24 2010, 06:22 PM) lol.. if no cannon rush then will die against computer insane. got cannon rushed 3 times so far in bronze league... which is quite alot considering the number of protoss i fought... all 3 of it failed though lol. I think its really hard to pull off. Either that or my opponents suck. I just 2-gate + chrono and the rush doesnt work anymore.btw, when playing 1v1 is it normal for protoss player to canon rush? seem like everyone is doing that |
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Aug 24 2010, 08:00 PM
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Junior Member
266 posts Joined: Oct 2005 From: Shah Alam
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QUOTE(xShinji @ Aug 24 2010, 06:44 PM) Any1 know the counter for early zealot rush? Usually when i play PvP on ladder, i place my first pylon like this:8 pylon 10 gate 12 gate 13 zealot 15 pylon .....some even do earlier gate.....been trying all sort of thing...but fail  When i scouted 2 gate build, i look for 2 things. How much probe he has, did he stop probe production? Look out for the blue lights above nexus. Next i'll look if he chrono boosted his gateway or not. If 1 of those 2 thing happens, i will save my chrono boost and put my 2nd gateway on the blue box to completely seal off my entrance. Then go for blink stalkers. If he decides to attack, laugh at him after his 5/7 zealots die to 2/3 stalkers. If he decides not to attack, you're still ahead since he either stop probe production or didnt chrono boost his nexus. You can seal off your entrance this way on every ladder map except scrap station and 5 o'clock starting position on delta quadrant. I've tested it on YABOT. |
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Aug 24 2010, 08:05 PM
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Senior Member
1,605 posts Joined: Nov 2008
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QUOTE(noob4life @ Aug 24 2010, 08:00 PM) got cannon rushed 3 times so far in bronze league... which is quite alot considering the number of protoss i fought... all 3 of it failed though lol. I think its really hard to pull off. Either that or my opponents suck. I just 2-gate + chrono and the rush doesnt work anymore. How u 2 gate chrono? The canon already in your base b4 your zealot out. Still can counter?QUOTE(RtP|DEV @ Aug 24 2010, 08:00 PM) Usually when i play PvP on ladder, i place my first pylon like this: U seal off the whole entrance wif pylon? Then u will need a lot pylon on same area and your ground unit can move through. Wat is YABOT?When i scouted 2 gate build, i look for 2 things. How much probe he has, did he stop probe production? Look out for the blue lights above nexus. Next i'll look if he chrono boosted his gateway or not. If 1 of those 2 thing happens, i will save my chrono boost and put my 2nd gateway on the blue box to completely seal off my entrance. Then go for blink stalkers. If he decides to attack, laugh at him after his 5/7 zealots die to 2/3 stalkers. If he decides not to attack, you're still ahead since he either stop probe production or didnt chrono boost his nexus. You can seal off your entrance this way on every ladder map except scrap station and 5 o'clock starting position on delta quadrant. I've tested it on YABOT. |
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Aug 24 2010, 08:21 PM
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Junior Member
200 posts Joined: Jun 2009
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@FAte
that is the B.O for early zealot rush tactic...i tried diff style but fail @Aeco hmm forge : ) Yeah, I scouted on it @Fate again .....you still can produce unit outside even without warpgate just by rallying it out... he should be have probe somewhere hidden to allow proxy to outside as well @RPT|DEV thx : ) |
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Aug 24 2010, 08:22 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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1 way to beat cheese, PULL UR PROBES OFF MINING IF NEEDED...
i had diamond toss cheesing me which pulling off 3-4 probes off mining would be enuff together with a chrono-ed zealot... ur probes are doing 5 damage each, make the best use of em and micro em of course... for example, use ur probes to dps the cannons warping in, chase after his probe and surround if able (so he cant warp in more nonsense) etc... This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 24 2010, 08:22 PM |
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Aug 24 2010, 08:22 PM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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QUOTE(f4tE @ Aug 24 2010, 08:05 PM) How u 2 gate chrono? The canon already in your base b4 your zealot out. Still can counter? He sealed it based on what information he got from scouting. Scouting is a must. After you build your 9 Pylon is down, send the same probe to the enemy's base and press SHIFT + P around his base, then you can go back to doing your own business.U seal off the whole entrance wif pylon? Then u will need a lot pylon on same area and your ground unit can move through. Wat is YABOT? |
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Aug 24 2010, 08:25 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(ZeratoS @ Aug 24 2010, 08:22 PM) He sealed it based on what information he got from scouting. Scouting is a must. After you build your 9 Pylon is down, send the same probe to the enemy's base and press SHIFT + P around his base, then you can go back to doing your own business. my general rule is that if it is a 1v1 map for ladder, there's always high cheese chances so scout after the pylon at 9...on larger maps, its personal preferences but i scout after the 13gate as i would like to have a strong economy... |
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Aug 24 2010, 08:29 PM
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Junior Member
200 posts Joined: Jun 2009
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btw....early zealot rush is not cheese.....
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Aug 24 2010, 08:32 PM
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Senior Member
1,605 posts Joined: Nov 2008
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if cannon rush fail then will be gg for the player liao.. cuz he wont be fast enuff to get his units up unless u give chance and wait for him build up. right right?
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Aug 24 2010, 08:38 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(f4tE @ Aug 24 2010, 08:32 PM) if cannon rush fail then will be gg for the player liao.. cuz he wont be fast enuff to get his units up unless u give chance and wait for him build up. right right? i usually jz tech up to 4 gate and outmacro him...for him to cannon rush, his eco gonna hurt so much... |
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Aug 24 2010, 08:42 PM
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Junior Member
101 posts Joined: Aug 2006
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BTW if you build your gateways like RtP|DEV's pic, you can block entrance using a single zealot.
If you can rush stalkers to defend behind your wall, you can make a single zealot + sentries to dps+FF when your zealot's shields are up. In fact, you'll have more since the zealot can be started when your core is warping in. If you wall off completely, it just means you can't expand later without breaking your pylon or making a warp prism. |
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Aug 24 2010, 09:40 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « fuyoh very detail with graphical explanation  Added on August 24, 2010, 9:42 pm QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 24 2010, 08:42 PM) BTW if you build your gateways like RtP|DEV's pic, you can block entrance using a single zealot. wrong, with the way he build, its perfectly sealed and no zealot is required. typically i dont do complete sealing ever unless im against zerg, and thats typically when im trying to fast tech cheese If you can rush stalkers to defend behind your wall, you can make a single zealot + sentries to dps+FF when your zealot's shields are up. In fact, you'll have more since the zealot can be started when your core is warping in. If you wall off completely, it just means you can't expand later without breaking your pylon or making a warp prism. This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 24 2010, 09:42 PM |
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Aug 24 2010, 09:54 PM
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Junior Member
101 posts Joined: Aug 2006
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 24 2010, 09:40 PM) » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « fuyoh very detail with graphical explanation Added on August 24, 2010, 9:42 pm wrong, with the way he build, its perfectly sealed and no zealot is required. typically i dont do complete sealing ever unless im against zerg, and thats typically when im trying to fast tech cheese |
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Aug 24 2010, 10:03 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 24 2010, 09:40 PM) » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « fuyoh very detail with graphical explanation Added on August 24, 2010, 9:42 pm wrong, with the way he build, its perfectly sealed and no zealot is required. typically i dont do complete sealing ever unless im against zerg, and thats typically when im trying to fast tech cheese |
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Aug 24 2010, 10:37 PM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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Even in SC2 got bengs man! Trash talking in mandarin. Dang.
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Aug 24 2010, 10:45 PM
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Senior Member
1,605 posts Joined: Nov 2008
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where beng? can stararcraft support chinese languiage?
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Aug 24 2010, 10:55 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 24 2010, 09:54 PM) I don't know if you misread me or just don't know. If you build the gateways like in the pic without the in between pylon, a zealot and probe can cross between the gateways. A stalker can't. Try it. which part would the zealot/probe fit through then? |
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Aug 24 2010, 11:08 PM
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Junior Member
101 posts Joined: Aug 2006
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 24 2010, 10:55 PM) which part would the zealot/probe fit through then? Why don't you try it out? Make the gateways adjacent and diagonal to each other like in the pic posted earlier without the pylon in between. Then test move your units.Or if you look at the pic, see the arrow pointing from the probe? |
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Aug 24 2010, 11:12 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 24 2010, 11:08 PM) Why don't you try it out? Make the gateways adjacent and diagonal to each other like in the pic posted earlier without the pylon in between. Then test move your units. yeah, not going through. did you even read his msg btw? "completely seal off" part?Or if you look at the pic, see the arrow pointing from the probe? |
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Aug 24 2010, 11:27 PM
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Junior Member
101 posts Joined: Aug 2006
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Sigh. Why don't you screenshot what you did here? I'm posting from my mobile and can't get into the game now.
2 diagonal gateways is not zealot/ling tight. That's why he used the pylon in between the gateways. |
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Aug 24 2010, 11:55 PM
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2,446 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 24 2010, 09:40 PM) » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « fuyoh very detail with graphical explanation Added on August 24, 2010, 9:42 pm wrong, with the way he build, its perfectly sealed and no zealot is required. typically i dont do complete sealing ever unless im against zerg, and thats typically when im trying to fast tech cheese What do you go after sealing your base |
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Aug 25 2010, 12:05 AM
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Junior Member
101 posts Joined: Aug 2006
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This is from liquipedia
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Wall Under building placement If two buildings are placed diagonally so that only their corners meet, only small sized units can pass between them. To see which units can pass between diagonally placed buidings see the #Units that can pass through semi-walls This post has been edited by nexous: Aug 25 2010, 12:06 AM |
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Aug 25 2010, 12:13 AM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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http://www.quazacolt.com/starcraft2/replay...block.SC2Replay
better yet, a full featured replay and lol i f***ed my BO really BAD doing that 2 gate. since im a stalker player and all... and he f***ed my gas too D: Added on August 25, 2010, 12:13 am QUOTE(Calvin Seak @ Aug 24 2010, 11:55 PM) lol why do you need to seal your base so tightly? DT/void cheese. loolololoWhat do you go after sealing your base Added on August 25, 2010, 12:15 am CODE [URL=http://www.quazacolt.com/starcraft2/replays/lolblock.SC2Replay]complete seal guide by rtp|dev played by Quazacolt[/URL] unker incx! add to front page please. lol can copy the above pictar + guide too by rtp This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 25 2010, 12:18 AM |
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Aug 25 2010, 07:52 AM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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Added to the list.
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Aug 25 2010, 08:32 AM
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Junior Member
162 posts Joined: Aug 2007 From: Pearl of The Orient
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QUOTE(f4tE @ Aug 24 2010, 08:05 PM) How u 2 gate chrono? The canon already in your base b4 your zealot out. Still can counter? Eh ? Actually i already had 1 zealot and 2 gates when the cannons came. ( i didnt get that cybernetics core, was zealoting ) Like I said maybe my opponent sucks... i left about half of my mineral line untouched to prevent his cannons from raping my probes. ( his cannons were at one side ) Theres still a bit of income there... so just chrono zealots when u have the chance... and like wat everyone said, surround and rape his probe. make sure no other probes enter ur base while ure doing it. U have to sacrifice those probes though. But once u counter it... its gg for him lol.U seal off the whole entrance wif pylon? Then u will need a lot pylon on same area and your ground unit can move through. Wat is YABOT? I actually didnt realize his probe was hiding at the edge of my base until he warped in his 3rd cannon. ( 1st and second warped under fog of war zzzzz ) This post has been edited by noob4life: Aug 25 2010, 08:35 AM |
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Aug 25 2010, 09:57 AM
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Senior Member
1,605 posts Joined: Nov 2008
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QUOTE(noob4life @ Aug 25 2010, 08:32 AM) Eh ? Actually i already had 1 zealot and 2 gates when the cannons came. ( i didnt get that cybernetics core, was zealoting ) Like I said maybe my opponent sucks... i left about half of my mineral line untouched to prevent his cannons from raping my probes. ( his cannons were at one side ) Theres still a bit of income there... so just chrono zealots when u have the chance... and like wat everyone said, surround and rape his probe. make sure no other probes enter ur base while ure doing it. U have to sacrifice those probes though. But once u counter it... its gg for him lol. oh means he make the 1st canon in the fog of war. that time u shud b just about to finish your warp gate. if he make first canon n your base then will already finish b4 your gateI actually didnt realize his probe was hiding at the edge of my base until he warped in his 3rd cannon. ( 1st and second warped under fog of war zzzzz ) |
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Aug 25 2010, 02:01 PM
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Senior Member
791 posts Joined: Jul 2008
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I noticed 1 thing last night. Lost 2 games to terran with marines rush. All he did was with 10-12 marines kite my zealots ends game in 6 minutes or rape my 4 zealots + 1 sentry. I FF cut the marines into 2, but apparently he continues kiting my zealots slowly moving back into a group. Are there better options to take marines rush?
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Aug 25 2010, 02:11 PM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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If only marines without Marauders, then fast stalker is a good option to counter it
my build for PVT always fast stalker to prevent reaper rush or marine rush |
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Aug 25 2010, 02:13 PM
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Junior Member
200 posts Joined: Jun 2009
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QUOTE(rlinux @ Aug 25 2010, 02:01 PM) I noticed 1 thing last night. Lost 2 games to terran with marines rush. All he did was with 10-12 marines kite my zealots ends game in 6 minutes or rape my 4 zealots + 1 sentry. I FF cut the marines into 2, but apparently he continues kiting my zealots slowly moving back into a group. Are there better options to take marines rush? Dont chase the marine ? ...unless he in ur nase already......save boost for stalker |
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Aug 25 2010, 02:22 PM
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Senior Member
791 posts Joined: Jul 2008
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Aug 25 2010, 02:11 PM) If only marines without Marauders, then fast stalker is a good option to counter it I'll be dead if he comes with MMM the next push.my build for PVT always fast stalker to prevent reaper rush or marine rush Added on August 25, 2010, 2:24 pm QUOTE(xShinji @ Aug 25 2010, 02:13 PM) Dont chase the marine ? ...unless he in ur nase already......save boost for stalker I didn't chase. Whether or not i chase, he'll be coming back and shoot me. I pull my zealots in, he'll be shooting my gateways etc. I'm screwed when a good micro player that kites me all around.This post has been edited by rlinux: Aug 25 2010, 02:24 PM |
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Aug 25 2010, 02:41 PM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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QUOTE(rlinux @ Aug 25 2010, 02:22 PM) I'll be dead if he comes with MMM the next push. always have few sentries beside stalkers.and def at the ramp...you need to tech up chargelot and build immortal if later he come out with tanks |
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Aug 25 2010, 02:44 PM
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Senior Member
791 posts Joined: Jul 2008
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Aug 25 2010, 02:41 PM) always have few sentries beside stalkers.and def at the ramp... Even if you does speed up stalkers, won't you only have 3 stalkers when he comes in 10-12 marines?you need to tech up chargelot and build immortal if later he come out with tanks |
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Aug 25 2010, 02:51 PM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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From my case, it depend much on map and the location of your enemy...once they push to my base with MM, I usually have 2 sentries 5 stalker and 2 zealots...
or if just Marines only..I will have at least 2 stalker with 1 sentry and by the time he attacking..my warpgate should done and my 3rd gateway nearly done... |
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Aug 25 2010, 03:16 PM
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Junior Member
203 posts Joined: Jan 2008 From: Shah Alam
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QUOTE(rlinux @ Aug 25 2010, 02:01 PM) I noticed 1 thing last night. Lost 2 games to terran with marines rush. All he did was with 10-12 marines kite my zealots ends game in 6 minutes or rape my 4 zealots + 1 sentry. I FF cut the marines into 2, but apparently he continues kiting my zealots slowly moving back into a group. Are there better options to take marines rush? Best to describe it is to post your replay. From there it's easier for us to identify your mistake. It might be your BO is slow or he 8 rax you. |
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Aug 25 2010, 03:30 PM
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Senior Member
1,605 posts Joined: Nov 2008
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Hi
my BO is probe probe probe pylon probe gateway then got 2 assimilator with 2 probe on each and around 9 or 10 on minerals. Is it good? |
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Aug 25 2010, 03:32 PM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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My build order against terran
9pylon 12/13 Gateway 14 Assimilator 15pylon 16 Cyber.core + Assimilator 20 Stalker 22 sentries then start modified depend on situation... |
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Aug 25 2010, 03:33 PM
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Junior Member
203 posts Joined: Jan 2008 From: Shah Alam
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That really depends. If you scout him and sees he's going fast reapers, then you'll need to chronoboost your stalker out ASAP. And why 2probes on each gas? Best would be 3. As mentioned, best is to upload your replay. It'll help tremendously.
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Aug 25 2010, 03:59 PM
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Senior Member
1,605 posts Joined: Nov 2008
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k will upload replay when i win ppl. Now always lose
I thought of not spending so much on gas since im not fast enuff to use all of them so only 2 on each will be enuff. |
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Aug 25 2010, 04:03 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(rlinux @ Aug 25 2010, 02:01 PM) I noticed 1 thing last night. Lost 2 games to terran with marines rush. All he did was with 10-12 marines kite my zealots ends game in 6 minutes or rape my 4 zealots + 1 sentry. I FF cut the marines into 2, but apparently he continues kiting my zealots slowly moving back into a group. Are there better options to take marines rush? stalkers with micro...i had a diamond terran did that on me and i defended well and beat him back... the trick is having 1 zealot to chase the marine, as they are trying to kite it, ur stalkers get free shots off... all i warp in was mostly stalkers with occasional zealots of this reason... when i counter pushed, he was already having 5 rax with an expansion just getting saturated but army advantage mine is better (i keep my probe production up and almost mine up my base LOL) This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 25 2010, 04:04 PM |
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Aug 25 2010, 04:08 PM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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QUOTE(f4tE @ Aug 25 2010, 03:59 PM) k will upload replay when i win ppl. Now always lose post the one you lose..cause you will learn more from losing not from winning...=)I thought of not spending so much on gas since im not fast enuff to use all of them so only 2 on each will be enuff. |
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Aug 25 2010, 04:17 PM
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Junior Member
203 posts Joined: Jan 2008 From: Shah Alam
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Yeap. Don't be shy or afraid to lose. Even if I lose or win games in league, I normally go through my replays to see if I can improve my timing or BO when win. Or see what goes wrong when I lose. That way, I'll know not to repeat the same mistakes
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Aug 25 2010, 05:37 PM
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Junior Member
101 posts Joined: Aug 2006
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Against Terran you should go 10 pylon 10 gateway. Core and gas asap after gateway is up and queue your stalker quickly. This will keep you safe against early reaper rush.
You can queue 1 zealot when your core is warping in. By the time the core is up, zealot should be done and stalker can be made asap. |
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Aug 25 2010, 06:07 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 25 2010, 05:37 PM) Against Terran you should go 10 pylon 10 gateway. Core and gas asap after gateway is up and queue your stalker quickly. This will keep you safe against early reaper rush. 9 py 12 gate.You can queue 1 zealot when your core is warping in. By the time the core is up, zealot should be done and stalker can be made asap. why risk ur econ when the terran is gonna turtle his balls off till he got a sizeble MM/stim upgraded anyways? and you can always chrono ur stalkers if you KNOW theres reapers coming (scouting, hello?) also, zealot is free food to reapers, id highly suggest you skipping it if you KNOW theres reapers. ps: go for an lol block so you have 1 less entrance to worry about (watched the replay? OLLOOLOLOLOLOLOL) |
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Aug 25 2010, 06:48 PM
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Junior Member
22 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Cheras, Selangor & Northpoint, Midvalley
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Is there a way to counter marauder pushing?
usually the fastest I've seen is 3 marauder with some marines... that time I will have about 2-3 zealots 2 sentry 1 stalker or less... these Marauder usually have concussive shell or researching. if maps with two entrances they will almost always go for the back door... with about 12-15 marauders and the ground army usually cant match. I manage to tech to immortal when 12-15 marau come. still cant manage to fend off. |
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Aug 25 2010, 08:51 PM
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Junior Member
101 posts Joined: Aug 2006
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 25 2010, 06:07 PM) 9 py 12 gate. 10gate can make a stalker 20t faster than 13 gate, and is only 35 minerals behind at the 2:30 mark. Gas is also faster with 10gate if assimilator is always timed with core. 10gate is also faster tech.why risk ur econ when the terran is gonna turtle his balls off till he got a sizeble MM/stim upgraded anyways? and you can always chrono ur stalkers if you KNOW theres reapers coming (scouting, hello?) also, zealot is free food to reapers, id highly suggest you skipping it if you KNOW theres reapers. ps: go for an lol block so you have 1 less entrance to worry about (watched the replay? OLLOOLOLOLOLOLOL) 10gate's 1st stalker (chrono'ed) comes out at 3:50 11gate's 1st stalker (chrono'ed) is at 4:10 terran 10rax turbo reaper is at 3:23. So yes, 20t is very important. Also 1 zealot is very important vs early marauder. Having Stalker + Zealot allows your stalkers to hit Marus while your Zealot tanks. Remember: Marus win vs Stalkers straight up. Also, Zealots have a higher dps than Stalkers so if Marus just ignore your Zealot, they die even faster. EDIT to add: Maru ball will of course be creamed by VRs/immortals, but with gateway units, just make a balance of zealots and stalkers. The thing is, zealots do more dps than Stalkers but a Stalker light army will be kited to death. A Stalker heavy army will be eaten alive by Maru's higher dps. This post has been edited by nexous: Aug 25 2010, 08:55 PM |
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Aug 25 2010, 09:17 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 25 2010, 08:51 PM) 10gate can make a stalker 20t faster than 13 gate, and is only 35 minerals behind at the 2:30 mark. Gas is also faster with 10gate if assimilator is always timed with core. 10gate is also faster tech. econ wise 12 gate would always superior with just slight set back on the first stalker in favor for a 3-4 gate play, or even decent robo teching while your stalkers continue to pump.10gate's 1st stalker (chrono'ed) comes out at 3:50 11gate's 1st stalker (chrono'ed) is at 4:10 terran 10rax turbo reaper is at 3:23. So yes, 20t is very important. Also 1 zealot is very important vs early marauder. Having Stalker + Zealot allows your stalkers to hit Marus while your Zealot tanks. Remember: Marus win vs Stalkers straight up. Also, Zealots have a higher dps than Stalkers so if Marus just ignore your Zealot, they die even faster. EDIT to add: Maru ball will of course be creamed by VRs/immortals, but with gateway units, just make a balance of zealots and stalkers. The thing is, zealots do more dps than Stalkers but a Stalker light army will be kited to death. A Stalker heavy army will be eaten alive by Maru's higher dps. also, that 1 zealot = free kill for marauder concussive. and terrans typically do 11 rax(or 10 rax with thats very close to 11)/gas/SD in same 11 food timing. watch the IEM replays. and zealot are 50 shield 100hp, stalkers 80/80... so uh... not quite lol they do have higher dps thats for sure, provide they dont get kited/sniped to death loololol and lol maru... |
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Aug 25 2010, 09:30 PM
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Junior Member
101 posts Joined: Aug 2006
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 25 2010, 09:17 PM) econ wise 12 gate would always superior with just slight set back on the first stalker in favor for a 3-4 gate play, or even decent robo teching while your stalkers continue to pump. 12gate is superior, a tiny bit. Like I said, 35 minerals (lol) at the 2:30 mark. Whether this gap widens or closes depends on chronoboost strategy.also, that 1 zealot = free kill for marauder concussive. and terrans typically do 11 rax(or 10 rax with thats very close to 11)/gas/SD in same 11 food timing. watch the IEM replays. and zealot are 50 shield 100hp, stalkers 80/80... so uh... not quite lol they do have higher dps thats for sure, provide they dont get kited/sniped to death loololol and lol maru... Zealot is almost always a must vs Marus. Reason again and again is Stalkers suck vs Marus. You say Stalkers have 10hp more than Zealots but do you know they take bonus damage from Marus? Marus will obliterate any pure Stalker army. Stalker's only use is to take pot shots at Marus when they're kiting Zealots. That's what I said in earlier, read it again. The reaper strat used in the IEM especially by Morrow is NOT a turbo reaper strat typical in TvP. It's a delayed reaper build where you go for more reapers instead of faster reapers. Delayed reapers suck vs protoss as Stalkers > Reapers. Just to add numbers: Marus do 10 dmg (+10 to armored) 9 hits to kill a Stalker 16 hits to kill a Zealot This post has been edited by nexous: Aug 25 2010, 09:38 PM |
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Aug 25 2010, 11:00 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 25 2010, 09:30 PM) 12gate is superior, a tiny bit. Like I said, 35 minerals (lol) at the 2:30 mark. Whether this gap widens or closes depends on chronoboost strategy. thats where careful micro comes in. pure stalkers would still amass slightly quicker than rauders due to warp gate, and theres always the option to go 1) chargelot 2) immortals or even a 4 gate stalker spam mixing some zealots in to soak dmg while the stalkers just obliterate everything.Zealot is almost always a must vs Marus. Reason again and again is Stalkers suck vs Marus. You say Stalkers have 10hp more than Zealots but do you know they take bonus damage from Marus? Marus will obliterate any pure Stalker army. Stalker's only use is to take pot shots at Marus when they're kiting Zealots. That's what I said in earlier, read it again. The reaper strat used in the IEM especially by Morrow is NOT a turbo reaper strat typical in TvP. It's a delayed reaper build where you go for more reapers instead of faster reapers. Delayed reapers suck vs protoss as Stalkers > Reapers. Just to add numbers: Marus do 10 dmg (+10 to armored) 9 hits to kill a Stalker 16 hits to kill a Zealot and lets not forget sentries for shield and or force block to split the MM up for the killing and yes, i do know rauders do 20 dmg to stalkers, however stalker does 14 in return to rauders too, so it isnt too bad eitherway. if you add in shields, its 18 dmg vs 14. so the gap is even lesser. of course theres stim pack in the equation, and thats where you play the terran is OP card. and FFS, maru? really? wtf maru. |
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Aug 25 2010, 11:21 PM
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Junior Member
101 posts Joined: Aug 2006
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 25 2010, 11:00 PM) thats where careful micro comes in. pure stalkers would still amass slightly quicker than rauders due to warp gate, and theres always the option to go 1) chargelot 2) immortals or even a 4 gate stalker spam mixing some zealots in to soak dmg while the stalkers just obliterate everything. VRs and Immortals are not answers to a Maru timing push. There's no reason a Terran pushes with only Marus well into stargate/robotics tech. They can also push in the timing window before your immortal/VR is up, when you've just invested a ton of mins/gas on tech and have a lesser army.and lets not forget sentries for shield and or force block to split the MM up for the killing and yes, i do know rauders do 20 dmg to stalkers, however stalker does 14 in return to rauders too, so it isnt too bad eitherway. if you add in shields, its 18 dmg vs 14. so the gap is even lesser. of course theres stim pack in the equation, and thats where you play the terran is OP card. and FFS, maru? really? wtf maru. The numbers I gave above already accounted for armor and shields. Sentry shield is rather useless vs large hits like those from Marus. They are great vs Marines and lings though. I'm not sure if you've seen a 2/3 Maru push/harass. Essentially only 2/3 Marus knocking at your door. If you have 1 zealot/2 stalkers, you'll have an easy time against this as opposed to a pure 3 stalker composition. Marus eat Stalkers for breakfast. Stalkers do crap dps btw. Zealots do more dps to armored units than even Stalkers with their +2 bonus. Don't believe me? Take the unit's damage multiplied by the inverse of their attack speed. Stalkers are about the most crap damagers in the game, with exception to sentries. This post has been edited by nexous: Aug 25 2010, 11:22 PM |
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Aug 25 2010, 11:37 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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build wise, i am in the same school ar nexous...
getting a zealot before a stalker (by the time ur zealot is done, ur core is just done)... after all i experienced the marauder opening a few times on beta to be vary of it... even if he go reaper and zealot is bad against it (with 2-3 probes off mining), it would buy me some time for my stalker to come out... nt only PvT, on PvP having some zealots is still better (i tried a pure stalker compo and got owned by stalkers backed with some zealots) how many zealots to stalkers? based on my gut instinct and my resources LOL |
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Aug 26 2010, 12:32 AM
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Junior Member
200 posts Joined: Jun 2009
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2 gate 1 robo 1 stargate is viable btw .....been testing this build ~
just need to do sthg with void ray lol .... it best to hit turtle player~ with you can always FF to block the ramp and preventing MM enter isnt it? while defending, stalker always able to do free shot since it above the cliff .....so far ....2 gate robo ...den early timing push is quite effective against terran ...unless bunker up ....if that happen camp outside his base with proxy pylon.. |
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Aug 26 2010, 04:32 AM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 25 2010, 11:21 PM) VRs and Immortals are not answers to a Maru timing push. There's no reason a Terran pushes with only Marus well into stargate/robotics tech. They can also push in the timing window before your immortal/VR is up, when you've just invested a ton of mins/gas on tech and have a lesser army. 1) toss tech transition is a easier compared to other races due to chronoThe numbers I gave above already accounted for armor and shields. Sentry shield is rather useless vs large hits like those from Marus. They are great vs Marines and lings though. I'm not sure if you've seen a 2/3 Maru push/harass. Essentially only 2/3 Marus knocking at your door. If you have 1 zealot/2 stalkers, you'll have an easy time against this as opposed to a pure 3 stalker composition. Marus eat Stalkers for breakfast. Stalkers do crap dps btw. Zealots do more dps to armored units than even Stalkers with their +2 bonus. Don't believe me? Take the unit's damage multiplied by the inverse of their attack speed. Stalkers are about the most crap damagers in the game, with exception to sentries. 2) sentry shield against zergling...? really? wow. (tooltip is ur friend btw) 3) without stim pack, i can out micro/macro rauders at my gates and i have the defensive position advantage. warp gates should be about done too thanks to chrono 4) stalkers may not be the highest dps'ers, but they certainly do not do crap dps. why else people f***ing 3-4 gate and spam stalkers all day long? 5) you play sc2 with the objective of taking out your enemy. not looking at a dps meter like some dpser in WoW raids. seriously. 6) and for god's sake, Marauder. rauder, mara are common shorts. maru? what the f***. Added on August 26, 2010, 4:34 am QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 25 2010, 11:37 PM) build wise, i am in the same school ar nexous... PVP/PVZ i will typically get a zealot in 1v1, PVT however, i favor more stalkers so i dont get my zealot free kited and killed. once i get charge up then i will only bother zealots.getting a zealot before a stalker (by the time ur zealot is done, ur core is just done)... after all i experienced the marauder opening a few times on beta to be vary of it... even if he go reaper and zealot is bad against it (with 2-3 probes off mining), it would buy me some time for my stalker to come out... nt only PvT, on PvP having some zealots is still better (i tried a pure stalker compo and got owned by stalkers backed with some zealots) how many zealots to stalkers? based on my gut instinct and my resources LOL This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 26 2010, 04:34 AM |
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Aug 26 2010, 09:14 AM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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same to me..no charge no zealots,
normally I used 1 sentry 2 stalker def in the base while I speed build obs to scout their base |
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Aug 26 2010, 09:33 AM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Aug 26 2010, 09:14 AM) same to me..no charge no zealots, if PVP or PVZ can zealot without charge. if PVT, f***ing concuss just makes em too god damn useless. and in 1v1, losing that 1-2 unit early on can very well mean a gg depending on the situationnormally I used 1 sentry 2 stalker def in the base while I speed build obs to scout their base |
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Aug 26 2010, 09:39 AM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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hmm, PVP i believe it comes to micro when fighting, stalkers+sentries combo can own stalkers+ zealot combo since u can use sentry to separate their zealot and stalker and own them 1 by 1..
micro rules.. and yeah, for PVZ, zealot is a must to tank those zerglings..=/ This post has been edited by raylee914: Aug 26 2010, 09:40 AM |
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Aug 26 2010, 11:36 AM
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Junior Member
101 posts Joined: Aug 2006
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 26 2010, 04:32 AM) 1) toss tech transition is a easier compared to other races due to chrono What's a tech switch?2) sentry shield against zergling...? really? wow. (tooltip is ur friend btw) 3) without stim pack, i can out micro/macro rauders at my gates and i have the defensive position advantage. warp gates should be about done too thanks to chrono 4) stalkers may not be the highest dps'ers, but they certainly do not do crap dps. why else people f***ing 3-4 gate and spam stalkers all day long? 5) you play sc2 with the objective of taking out your enemy. not looking at a dps meter like some dpser in WoW raids. seriously. 6) and for god's sake, Marauder. rauder, mara are common shorts. maru? what the f***. Getting the tech buildings up duh. You can't chrono those structures. Read the sentry shield tooltip again, and tell us what do you understand from it. Here's a tip: from a 50 dmg attack, the shield reduces 2 dmg, only 4% of damage mitigated. from a 6 dmg attack, the shield reduces 2 dmg, a whopping 66% of damage mitigated. See a relationship? Larger hits are less affected by GS. Stalkers do actually have the lowest dps, bar Sentries. Rather than think about why people do things like massing stalkers, why don't you tell us what Protoss unit has an even lower dps? Stalker heavy army is not a strong composition mid game onwards unless your opponent is massing marines or roaches only. They are usually used to support Colossi and being the only non-stargate anti-air. DPS is kinda important and is the main reason why a pure Stalker army will lose in a straight up with Maru and Hydra. |
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Aug 26 2010, 01:19 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 26 2010, 11:36 AM) What's a tech switch? - and what comes after building the production building? build the damn units Getting the tech buildings up duh. You can't chrono those structures. Read the sentry shield tooltip again, and tell us what do you understand from it. Here's a tip: from a 50 dmg attack, the shield reduces 2 dmg, only 4% of damage mitigated. from a 6 dmg attack, the shield reduces 2 dmg, a whopping 66% of damage mitigated. See a relationship? Larger hits are less affected by GS. Stalkers do actually have the lowest dps, bar Sentries. Rather than think about why people do things like massing stalkers, why don't you tell us what Protoss unit has an even lower dps? Stalker heavy army is not a strong composition mid game onwards unless your opponent is massing marines or roaches only. They are usually used to support Colossi and being the only non-stargate anti-air. DPS is kinda important and is the main reason why a pure Stalker army will lose in a straight up with Maru and Hydra. - http://sc2armory.com/game/protoss/units/sentry QUOTE Creates a range of 4 aura that reduces incoming ranged damage to friendly units by 2. Lasts 15 zerglings do range attack now? ok. - so everyone massing stalkers are DOIN ET WRONG. tell that to the pro gamer korean thats playing SC2 for A LIVING and christ maru. |
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Aug 26 2010, 01:20 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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so vs a terran going MMM as u have scouted...
would u guys prefer to push out with 3-4 gate? or stay back and tech to colossi/ storm? last nite i went with the first approach and failed badly (2 attempts) while beating another on blistering sands dropping my 70% winning rate ...This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 26 2010, 01:26 PM |
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Aug 26 2010, 01:36 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 26 2010, 01:20 PM) so vs a terran going MMM as u have scouted... i will go 2-3 gate and try to aim for immortal/colowould u guys prefer to push out with 3-4 gate? or stay back and tech to colossi/ storm? last nite i went with the first approach and failed badly (2 attempts) while beating another on blistering sands dropping my 70% winning rate ...but my stalkers will still go for early aggression as im a more aggressive player and taking out even a scv or marine would satiate that bloodthirst lol |
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Aug 26 2010, 01:37 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 26 2010, 01:36 PM) i will go 2-3 gate and try to aim for immortal/colo i did make a push after my 2 gate, 1 zealot 1 sentry 2 stalkers while waiting for warpgates...but my stalkers will still go for early aggression as im a more aggressive player and taking out even a scv or marine would satiate that bloodthirst lol but if he do wall in, cant really do much besides tickling the supply depots LOL... 4 gate vs their T is maybe i'll give ur build a try... |
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Aug 26 2010, 01:50 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 26 2010, 01:37 PM) i did make a push after my 2 gate, 1 zealot 1 sentry 2 stalkers while waiting for warpgates... 4 gate too hard vs T. all T has to get is tanks and you instant cry ady LOLbut if he do wall in, cant really do much besides tickling the supply depots LOL... 4 gate vs their T is maybe i'll give ur build a try... at least immortal can do *something* about it, or colo for high ground vision, and after thermal lance, you can snipe tanks with some good blink micro assist. (and colo > MM ball lol) early aggression, even if its just SD ticking, it'd get his scv busy, and at least keep him contained, where you can attempt for expansions |
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Aug 26 2010, 02:02 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 26 2010, 01:50 PM) 4 gate too hard vs T. all T has to get is tanks and you instant cry ady LOL even without tanks it feels hard...at least immortal can do *something* about it, or colo for high ground vision, and after thermal lance, you can snipe tanks with some good blink micro assist. (and colo > MM ball lol) early aggression, even if its just SD ticking, it'd get his scv busy, and at least keep him contained, where you can attempt for expansions when they have tanks, i could blink n snipe tanks but those darn concussive shells |
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Aug 26 2010, 02:25 PM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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Most of the time I'll wait and see, only will take my move once my obs is up. It's best if you could have a DT or 2 in your group. Works best when everything is so messy on screen.
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Aug 26 2010, 02:31 PM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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fast scout and adapt your units to counter them..
pure MMM I will use stalker+collosious+zealot MMM+ tank/thor = stalker+zealot+immortal MMM+tank+vikings =they must be turtling too much = have to expand faster than them d =/ |
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Aug 26 2010, 02:34 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 26 2010, 02:02 PM) even without tanks it feels hard... And the problem of blinking right into the tank could also be suicidal as you are taking both tank AND marauder fire prior to blinking and even after blinking you are still taking fire.you may have snipe that one tank, he could've killed your entire stalker army when they have tanks, i could blink n snipe tanks but those darn concussive shells |
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Aug 26 2010, 02:35 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 26 2010, 02:25 PM) Most of the time I'll wait and see, only will take my move once my obs is up. It's best if you could have a DT or 2 in your group. Works best when everything is so messy on screen. DTs kinda expensive and slightly far on the tech tree...QUOTE(raylee914 @ Aug 26 2010, 02:31 PM) fast scout and adapt your units to counter them.. i always try to end the game fast due to the 3rd stage which i think is unbeatable regardless of army compo (1-2 thors as well)pure MMM I will use stalker+collosious+zealot MMM+ tank/thor = stalker+zealot+immortal MMM+tank+vikings =they must be turtling too much = have to expand faster than them d =/ |
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Aug 26 2010, 02:39 PM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 26 2010, 02:35 PM) DTs kinda expensive and slightly far on the tech tree... yeah, i met one terran in ladder who turtle too much in with 1 more expansion..then after 30 minutes come out with 6 BC 12 vikings 6 tanks + MMM...i always try to end the game fast due to the 3rd stage which i think is unbeatable regardless of army compo (1-2 thors as well) I used 12 carries + 6 Collosious+stalker+zealot... I cleared all his ground units but he left BC and I lost all =/ then gg d |
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Aug 26 2010, 02:43 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Aug 26 2010, 02:39 PM) yeah, i met one terran in ladder who turtle too much in with 1 more expansion..then after 30 minutes come out with 6 BC 12 vikings 6 tanks + MMM... i beat one but i can really kill myself trying to beat him...I used 12 carries + 6 Collosious+stalker+zealot... I cleared all his ground units but he left BC and I lost all =/ then gg d going back n forth and i did a 3 pronged attack on him - DT on expansion, chargelot HTs on his main army off 10 gates LOL, VRs in his main base... oh ya tonnes of fake halucinated units (colossi) while engaging LOL... this was after a failed pushed due to his 6 tanks sieged up wit bunkers "mass storm seemed nt good enuff at times... HuK usually get mass VRs with speed late game which is kinda good... |
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Aug 26 2010, 02:48 PM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 26 2010, 02:43 PM) i beat one but i can really kill myself trying to beat him... lol, i cant hardly micro when I have lag issue with too many units in my screen...so at the end just auto attack..zzzzgoing back n forth and i did a 3 pronged attack on him - DT on expansion, chargelot HTs on his main army off 10 gates LOL, VRs in his main base... oh ya tonnes of fake halucinated units (colossi) while engaging LOL... this was after a failed pushed due to his 6 tanks sieged up wit bunkers "mass storm seemed nt good enuff at times... HuK usually get mass VRs with speed late game which is kinda good... time to change new comp!!!! |
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Aug 26 2010, 02:52 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Aug 26 2010, 02:48 PM) lol, i cant hardly micro when I have lag issue with too many units in my screen...so at the end just auto attack..zzzz lol i jz atk move my units except the storms and VRs on his production structures...time to change new comp!!!! with such experienced, i decided to try n end the game before such stage >.< |
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Aug 26 2010, 02:58 PM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 26 2010, 02:35 PM) DTs kinda expensive and slightly far on the tech tree... Yea, it's on the other hand of the tech tree I guess. But it's still worth it.i always try to end the game fast due to the 3rd stage which i think is unbeatable regardless of army compo (1-2 thors as well) And I will always try not to let a terran stay too long in the game, it's like a digging a hole for myself. Until now, I've yet to see Thor gameplays. Maybe I'm still in gold league, most of them used MMM only. |
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Aug 26 2010, 03:03 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(incx @ Aug 26 2010, 02:58 PM) Yea, it's on the other hand of the tech tree I guess. But it's still worth it. thors are really great vs chargelots absorbing all the fireAnd I will always try not to let a terran stay too long in the game, it's like a digging a hole for myself. Until now, I've yet to see Thor gameplays. Maybe I'm still in gold league, most of them used MMM only. |
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Aug 26 2010, 03:58 PM
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Junior Member
101 posts Joined: Aug 2006
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 26 2010, 01:19 PM) - and what comes after building the production building? build the damn units Yea I missed the ranged thing sigh. Didn't realize it till today. - http://sc2armory.com/game/protoss/units/sentry zerglings do range attack now? ok. - so everyone massing stalkers are DOIN ET WRONG. tell that to the pro gamer korean thats playing SC2 for A LIVING and christ maru. Random player here. That was no where near what's called massing Stalkers. You see him abusing Stalker mobility to circumnavigate the wall-in with blink but even then they can't stand up to terran bio without a VR or other t2/t3 unit support. And if you noticed the vid, Tester made 1 zealot before the stalker. Watch today's day9 daily. day9 talked about how 4gating breaks a teching player easily because of the window before your tech is available. Terrans can make an MM timing push which is very deadly to a teching player as well. bratok is especially famous for his stim marine early pressure. Zerg has roach/ling. |
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Aug 26 2010, 06:28 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 26 2010, 03:58 PM) Yea I missed the ranged thing sigh. Didn't realize it till today. ONE zealot (which was sniped afaik loololololol), 3 gate producing nothing but stalkers. he only begin to actually get zealot once charge is researched as ive posted many timesRandom player here. That was no where near what's called massing Stalkers. You see him abusing Stalker mobility to circumnavigate the wall-in with blink but even then they can't stand up to terran bio without a VR or other t2/t3 unit support. And if you noticed the vid, Tester made 1 zealot before the stalker. Watch today's day9 daily. day9 talked about how 4gating breaks a teching player easily because of the window before your tech is available. Terrans can make an MM timing push which is very deadly to a teching player as well. bratok is especially famous for his stim marine early pressure. Zerg has roach/ling. and the reason he fail is cuz hes attacking a base with like 6 rax in it producing unit non stop, what'd ya expect? he didnt have proxy pylon to reinforce his army while STC is non stop reinforcing. not to mention the superior micro as demonstrated. (watch the zerg jooktojung match) and what other "other t2/t3 unit support." all he had was one VR and later on phoenix. he massed stalkers/zealot/sentries even till the end :/ |
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Aug 26 2010, 06:59 PM
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Junior Member
101 posts Joined: Aug 2006
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Haihz lazy wanna argue with you already.
Chargelots can be considered t2 (zealots t1) since charge is a huge upgrade. Anyway I was mainly referring to the VR. The 1 VR early on thinned stc's army considerably. If it was just stalkers (talking about the ledge harass), tester would have gotten rolled over. The one zealot is like what was discussed earlier btw, just in case of maru harass, 1 zealot is good to have. And yea, guess why he made zealots rather than only stalkers? |
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Aug 26 2010, 07:44 PM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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sif..clearing a zerg base then got dc....zzzz my winning streak broke...=.=
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Aug 26 2010, 07:47 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 26 2010, 06:59 PM) Haihz lazy wanna argue with you already. blink is as huge to stalkers as charge is to zealots. so now stalkers are considered t2? wat?Chargelots can be considered t2 (zealots t1) since charge is a huge upgrade. Anyway I was mainly referring to the VR. The 1 VR early on thinned stc's army considerably. If it was just stalkers (talking about the ledge harass), tester would have gotten rolled over. The one zealot is like what was discussed earlier btw, just in case of maru harass, 1 zealot is good to have. And yea, guess why he made zealots rather than only stalkers? bear in mind, a small contributor to tester's fall was also due to the massing of zealots. they get stim raped, concussed, and more importantly, no blink and having long travel distance to save his base from drops. granted, stalkers alone is not the answer, however the zealots can be used for something more worthy like say, more phoenixes to 1) prevent medivacs dropping 2) sniping off medivacs or rauder gravitron during actual confrontation 3) mineral line harass with gravitron turnout could've been much better which was disappointing as tested started out really strong despite having stalker massed against the supposedly OPd marauder mass |
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Aug 26 2010, 09:28 PM
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Senior Member
751 posts Joined: Mar 2010
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i lost to computer AI hard 1v1. Play no rush let them build slowly.
so difficult play 1 |
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Aug 26 2010, 10:23 PM
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Junior Member
101 posts Joined: Aug 2006
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Blink isn't for combat while charge is. You can blink to save staplers only if your opponent isn't focus firing.
Are you saying you're better than tester to suggest another comp? Tester must have known that bar more VRs or further teching, zealots and sentry FFs were the best answer to the Inc Mary army. I happen to agree with him. He lost because he didn't tech faster or outproduce his opponent. The composition was fine. |
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Aug 26 2010, 10:51 PM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/show/id/691
dont miss this replay...I love to c NeXGenius who is currently number 1 in Korea diamond league...his micro and strategic just phew phew phew...:> |
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Aug 26 2010, 11:45 PM
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Junior Member
101 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Aug 26 2010, 10:51 PM) http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/show/id/691 wow that terran player went heavy on marauder. Wonder, why Genius didnt get charge upgrade for zealots since he did had alot of zealots in his control group.dont miss this replay...I love to c NeXGenius who is currently number 1 in Korea diamond league...his micro and strategic just phew phew phew...:> |
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Aug 27 2010, 12:49 AM
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Senior Member
958 posts Joined: Aug 2007 From: forum.lowyat.net
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Aug 26 2010, 10:51 PM) http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/show/id/691 Umm to be honest is a pretty boring game and i am kinda surprise to see that Terran didn't win the game or change strategy and plus his micro kinda suck too.dont miss this replay...I love to c NeXGenius who is currently number 1 in Korea diamond league...his micro and strategic just phew phew phew...:> Not to say i am good but that honestly is what i thought of |
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Aug 27 2010, 08:27 AM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 26 2010, 10:23 PM) Blink isn't for combat while charge is. You can blink to save staplers only if your opponent isn't focus firing. rofl. guess all the pros whos been using it FAILDAre you saying you're better than tester to suggest another comp? Tester must have known that bar more VRs or further teching, zealots and sentry FFs were the best answer to the Inc Mary army. I happen to agree with him. He lost because he didn't tech faster or outproduce his opponent. The composition was fine. and seriously, you're the one whos been harping how terribad stalkers are. tester is spamming stalkers until he get charge upgrade. if anyone is suggessting anything over what pros use, that would be you. and no, he lost because of containment, and drop taking off his nexus. not really tech or production as army/income count are neck in neck till the whole dropping process start |
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Aug 27 2010, 03:09 PM
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Junior Member
101 posts Joined: Aug 2006
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 27 2010, 08:27 AM) rofl. guess all the pros whos been using it FAILD Yeah you better check how pros are actually using stalkers.and seriously, you're the one whos been harping how terribad stalkers are. tester is spamming stalkers until he get charge upgrade. if anyone is suggessting anything over what pros use, that would be you. and no, he lost because of containment, and drop taking off his nexus. not really tech or production as army/income count are neck in neck till the whole dropping process start Blinking and picking up SMALLER groups. Just check what happened when tester blinked up stc's main for the 2nd time; he was forced to retreat to what seems like an equal or smaller army even! Stalkers have a niche, ranged weak dps with a lot of mobility. If you think they can form the backbone of your army, you're going to lose to the basic MM again and again. Remember that this discussion started because you think protoss vs Maru aggression, zealots are not needed. Think again. Marus cream Stalkers, and they're actually cheaper even. Did tester outproduced stc? Hardly. The stargate was idle midgame onwards and it's difficult to say that the VR did enough damage to justify the tech. The DT shrine hardly paid for itself. The DT didn't do much damage. HTs could have changed it all but they came too late. All the while stc only made MMM. Solid MMM. Tester didn't have a larger army to deal with the MMM, and was slow on the tech (HTs). What's your IGN anyway? |
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Aug 27 2010, 06:07 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 27 2010, 03:09 PM) Yeah you better check how pros are actually using stalkers. equal, definitely not smaller, and STC was already well prepared on that blink with vision seeing them coming. and again, lets not forget tester fighting on STC's ground with units continue to produce non stop. by the end of that skirmish tester was already overwhelmed by new units and was forced to retreat.Blinking and picking up SMALLER groups. Just check what happened when tester blinked up stc's main for the 2nd time; he was forced to retreat to what seems like an equal or smaller army even! Stalkers have a niche, ranged weak dps with a lot of mobility. If you think they can form the backbone of your army, you're going to lose to the basic MM again and again. Remember that this discussion started because you think protoss vs Maru aggression, zealots are not needed. Think again. Marus cream Stalkers, and they're actually cheaper even. Did tester outproduced stc? Hardly. The stargate was idle midgame onwards and it's difficult to say that the VR did enough damage to justify the tech. The DT shrine hardly paid for itself. The DT didn't do much damage. HTs could have changed it all but they came too late. All the while stc only made MMM. Solid MMM. Tester didn't have a larger army to deal with the MMM, and was slow on the tech (HTs). What's your IGN anyway? and i will still stand by my stance that stalkers CAN be massed and be your backbone of your army, however i did not say zealots are not needed. what ive said is zealots are USELESS without charge. especially to any MARAUDER army with concussion and stun. army/production/income tabs are equal on both sides until the drops begin. if you're still not convinced from the youtube, goto TL forum and find/download the replay. (i believe husky even shown the tabs and even commented about it) as for my IGN, refer to my signature. |
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Aug 27 2010, 06:15 PM
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Senior Member
2,780 posts Joined: Jun 2008 From: yokumo village
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QUOTE(nexous @ Aug 27 2010, 03:09 PM) Yeah you better check how pros are actually using stalkers. are joo throwing down a challenge??Blinking and picking up SMALLER groups. Just check what happened when tester blinked up stc's main for the 2nd time; he was forced to retreat to what seems like an equal or smaller army even! Stalkers have a niche, ranged weak dps with a lot of mobility. If you think they can form the backbone of your army, you're going to lose to the basic MM again and again. Remember that this discussion started because you think protoss vs Maru aggression, zealots are not needed. Think again. Marus cream Stalkers, and they're actually cheaper even. Did tester outproduced stc? Hardly. The stargate was idle midgame onwards and it's difficult to say that the VR did enough damage to justify the tech. The DT shrine hardly paid for itself. The DT didn't do much damage. HTs could have changed it all but they came too late. All the while stc only made MMM. Solid MMM. Tester didn't have a larger army to deal with the MMM, and was slow on the tech (HTs). What's your IGN anyway? hmmm... can joo guys post replay(s) after this?? and put moar |
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Aug 27 2010, 06:16 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(Instant_noodle @ Aug 27 2010, 06:15 PM) are joo throwing down a challenge?? my replays are on first page.hmmm... can joo guys post replay(s) after this?? and put moar |
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Aug 27 2010, 07:00 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 27 2010, 06:16 PM) my replays are on first page. PvP grudge match, nt ur ladder matches LOL |
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Aug 27 2010, 07:48 PM
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Senior Member
2,125 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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Just finish my 5 placement match, Silver , Rank 12.
So how much would I need to grind to get into Gold? 4 wins out of 5 games, tried to play cannon rush and lose lolx. |
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Aug 27 2010, 08:19 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 27 2010, 07:00 PM) PvP grudge match, nt ur ladder matches LOL boleh pun. lolAdded on August 27, 2010, 8:19 pm QUOTE(nles @ Aug 27 2010, 07:48 PM) Just finish my 5 placement match, Silver , Rank 12. grind doesnt work, just get betterSo how much would I need to grind to get into Gold? 4 wins out of 5 games, tried to play cannon rush and lose lolx. This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 27 2010, 08:19 PM |
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Aug 27 2010, 08:33 PM
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Senior Member
5,691 posts Joined: Mar 2006
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Haha my placement I did all protoss and lost 3/5 and got into bronze.
one of my losses i didn't know stalkers need vision to blink to higher ground, by the time i got a starport and that cheap air unit out too late already another loss didn't scout properly, do 4gate push but the opponent got immortal already (1gateway then terus robotics) and the 3rd loss was against mm ball drop at my mineral line ... zzzz what sucks is that i use that tactic so much in practice league |
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Aug 27 2010, 09:47 PM
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Senior Member
2,780 posts Joined: Jun 2008 From: yokumo village
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 27 2010, 07:00 PM) PvP grudge match, nt ur ladder matches LOL in b4 either one on then goes 'oh u in <region A>, but i'm in <region B>... it would be an |
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Aug 27 2010, 09:51 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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arghh i gonna shoot myself over PvT...
its such a tough nut to crack (inb4nerf terran)... MM based builds like MMG is jz so hard... other than that i have a chance like using VR opening (that got me to diamond at last) |
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Aug 28 2010, 03:31 AM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(Instant_noodle @ Aug 27 2010, 09:47 PM) in b4 either one on then goes 'oh u in <region A>, but i'm in <region B>... it would be an saw the FAQ? lol |
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Aug 28 2010, 09:30 AM
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Junior Member
542 posts Joined: Nov 2004 From: Petaling Jaya
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f*** terran
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Aug 28 2010, 10:23 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Phonzy @ Aug 28 2010, 09:30 AM) f*** terran ./agreewith the possible warpgate nerf by 5 sec, i dun see how can we outbuild a 3rax build of MM+G... |
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Aug 28 2010, 10:56 AM
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Junior Member
315 posts Joined: Apr 2008
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ppl are saying that a proxy rax is gonna screw the protoss much too...XD
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Aug 28 2010, 01:14 PM
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Junior Member
187 posts Joined: Mar 2005 From: 天国
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The change is okay for mid game, 1 extra warpgate is all you need. But toss will have hard time countering early rush like proxy rax marauder, and 6pool lings especially in 1v1 short distance map. T.T Kinda surprise they keep marauders unchange duh.
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Aug 28 2010, 01:22 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(MintDarker @ Aug 28 2010, 01:14 PM) The change is okay for mid game, 1 extra warpgate is all you need. But toss will have hard time countering early rush like proxy rax marauder, and 6pool lings especially in 1v1 short distance map. T.T Kinda surprise they keep marauders unchange duh. well the slower zealots is a big blow as zealots are ur meatshield vs MM-based builds...hw often u wish ur warpgate cooldown be fast as there is a 5sec delay for the warp-in animations as we... i thot of the extra gate build if u are doing a timing push, that would set u back by quite a lot imho... they might make changes to warpgate as well... |
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Aug 30 2010, 02:40 AM
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Senior Member
958 posts Joined: Aug 2007 From: forum.lowyat.net
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Big changes on toss probably due to zerg player's complain for being too weak in certain areas.
Yea rather than focusing on zerg, i rather focus on "how to counter terran MMM and moar MMM". Huge nerf on siege tank as well as some nerfs on toss but thankfully colossus stays alive |
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Aug 30 2010, 03:27 AM
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Senior Member
2,125 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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Still having hard time winning terran, easiest still proxy gate them.
Got myself up to gold rank 1, but lose to quite a few plat players. |
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Aug 30 2010, 04:34 PM
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Senior Member
676 posts Joined: Jul 2007 From: Soviet Union
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ya...really hard on using protoss vs terran....especially when terran get siege tank...it will smash all your ground force...
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Aug 31 2010, 12:28 AM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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I did a readup on the HT vs Colossus issue in PvT and I guess most people would expect the typical 3 gate robo so I'm gonna try and stick with High Templar tech off one base with chargelots.
Anyone got a good BO for this to exploit timings? This post has been edited by ZeratoS: Aug 31 2010, 12:31 AM |
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Aug 31 2010, 02:16 AM
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Senior Member
1,190 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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Hate reaper. Meh. Zeals are too slow for their micro. Only way is to try and scout early -> straight cybernetic core?
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Aug 31 2010, 03:12 AM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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QUOTE(Sesshoumaru @ Aug 31 2010, 02:16 AM) Hate reaper. Meh. Zeals are too slow for their micro. Only way is to try and scout early -> straight cybernetic core? Yeah, one stalker counters the entire rush, then he'd be so set back on tech you'd have a huge advantage cause CCore is part of the standard buildup. |
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Aug 31 2010, 06:35 AM
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Senior Member
2,125 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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Worst day of my SC2
lost more than 10 time, and what's all this maphack jokes? i zealot rush a zerg and he wanna report me as maphacker.... This post has been edited by nles: Aug 31 2010, 06:35 AM Attached thumbnail(s) 
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Aug 31 2010, 07:05 AM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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Did you do a proxy gateway or just pure zealot rush? Either way, if he can't take a zealot rush, it's no one's fault except his own.
I realize when you play SC2, if you're on a losing streak, you should stop playing a while, or else you'll continue losing till the pigs can fly. |
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Aug 31 2010, 12:49 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(ZeratoS @ Aug 31 2010, 03:12 AM) Yeah, one stalker counters the entire rush, then he'd be so set back on tech you'd have a huge advantage cause CCore is part of the standard buildup. i doubt so...if he have a stalker, u can micro 2 zealots to get a partial surround and land hits... the other zealots can jz go straight for his mineral line... at times i jz ignore the stalker (10damage LOL) and go whack the probes |
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Aug 31 2010, 02:11 PM
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Senior Member
5,691 posts Joined: Mar 2006
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Bronze League alert ~
Just won a PvP where the guy went 'gotta go' just as I was attacking, haha. Replay is here if anyone interested to gimme improvement tips. What I noticed from playing and from watching youtube commentaries ... 95% of the games i've been in i sure kena rush. either mmm rush or zergling rush or zealot rush or proxy reaper or whatever. but in those youtube games, hardly anyone ever rushes, most of the time they tech a bit. how come ah? Also, zergling rush on maps with backdoor = how? i can't remember which map, but the one with a back door with rocks. i can't wall that off, and when the lings break through they just run past all my forces and own my probes. |
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Aug 31 2010, 02:34 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(deodorant @ Aug 31 2010, 02:11 PM) Bronze League alert ~ depends how u handle the rushes...Just won a PvP where the guy went 'gotta go' just as I was attacking, haha. Replay is here if anyone interested to gimme improvement tips. What I noticed from playing and from watching youtube commentaries ... 95% of the games i've been in i sure kena rush. either mmm rush or zergling rush or zealot rush or proxy reaper or whatever. but in those youtube games, hardly anyone ever rushes, most of the time they tech a bit. how come ah? Also, zergling rush on maps with backdoor = how? i can't remember which map, but the one with a back door with rocks. i can't wall that off, and when the lings break through they just run past all my forces and own my probes. most high lvl play have aggression and pressure over rushes... like first stalker poking on ur opponent's ramp etc... if the opponent tech too fast, u transition into a rush... its really highly dependent on scouting... as for the map, its blistering sands... for zergling to bite through the rocks, it take them around 2 minute which is plenty of time for u to react imho... always put a pylon over there for sight... if u see zergling chewing the rocks, drop a forge and a cannon to make a partial wall if ur army size is small, else jz move ur army there and engage... Added on August 31, 2010, 2:35 pmps: sentry's force field are one of the best tool to create choke points as a funnel to the zerglings This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 31 2010, 02:35 PM |
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Aug 31 2010, 08:15 PM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 31 2010, 12:49 PM) i doubt so... Reaper rush bang. Not zealot rush 8Dif he have a stalker, u can micro 2 zealots to get a partial surround and land hits... the other zealots can jz go straight for his mineral line... at times i jz ignore the stalker (10damage LOL) and go whack the probes |
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Aug 31 2010, 08:16 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(ZeratoS @ Aug 31 2010, 08:15 PM) Reaper rush bang. Not zealot rush 8D lol misread bro |
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Sep 1 2010, 04:46 AM
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Senior Member
1,190 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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The day Terran is nerfed.
Can't.... wait.... |
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Sep 1 2010, 04:52 AM
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Junior Member
35 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Malaysia
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Didn't seem to have nerfed the MMM though.
But then, there might be more changes added other than the ones listed. |
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Sep 1 2010, 04:57 AM
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Senior Member
1,190 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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Sigh honestly I am just killing myself. Almost all my losses are against Terran. T_T.
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Sep 1 2010, 05:06 AM
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Junior Member
35 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(Sesshoumaru @ Sep 1 2010, 04:57 AM) Sigh honestly I am just killing myself. Almost all my losses are against Terran. T_T. Ouch...How are you losing? What did they build against you each time? |
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Sep 1 2010, 05:16 AM
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Senior Member
1,190 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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Mostly MMM. Once was a reaper cheese which I decided to do a cannon rush lol. If i had continued my first stalker maybe I would have won.
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Sep 1 2010, 05:23 AM
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Junior Member
35 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(Sesshoumaru @ Sep 1 2010, 05:16 AM) Mostly MMM. Once was a reaper cheese which I decided to do a cannon rush lol. If i had continued my first stalker maybe I would have won. Yea the reaper harass is a killer if you don't have a stalker out. MMM drop is still quite a pain for us toss. Unless they are careless enough to lose the whole medivac with their army still in it, which would make your life easier. |
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 Sep 1 2010, 11:57 PM
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Junior Member
101 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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Day9 has a new daily up! (I've been waiting for this over the weekend!) and his talking bout the various 4 warpgate build today!
http://day9tv.blip.tv/ imma watching them now~ |
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Sep 2 2010, 12:02 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(JuzJoe @ Sep 1 2010, 11:57 PM) Day9 has a new daily up! (I've been waiting for this over the weekend!) and his talking bout the various 4 warpgate build today! more interested in his day9 build for tonight's daily as i think the 4gate is too common and most players already have their own version of it...http://day9tv.blip.tv/ imma watching them now~ |
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Sep 2 2010, 12:29 AM
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Junior Member
314 posts Joined: May 2007
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QUOTE(JuzJoe @ Sep 1 2010, 11:57 PM) Day9 has a new daily up! (I've been waiting for this over the weekend!) and his talking bout the various 4 warpgate build today! loading imba slow man >.<http://day9tv.blip.tv/ imma watching them now~ |
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Sep 2 2010, 12:31 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Tsj261 @ Sep 2 2010, 12:29 AM) loading imba slow man >.< u can download it...i load it pretty smooth (can watch n load) usually... |
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Sep 2 2010, 03:00 AM
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Senior Member
2,125 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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I'm getting frustrated playing against terrans. Been losing to terran for god knows how many times.
they mass marauders, my immortal and collosius also cant take on them, guess need voids but they take down base dam fast. my lost going to overcome my wins already lolx This post has been edited by nles: Sep 2 2010, 03:01 AM |
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Sep 2 2010, 03:30 AM
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Senior Member
837 posts Joined: Oct 2006 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(Sesshoumaru @ Sep 1 2010, 05:57 AM) Sigh honestly I am just killing myself. Almost all my losses are against Terran. T_T. same i oso lose to terran alot of time during league game. They always come with MMM meat ball and sometime using siege tank on high hill! Argh seriously i hate that! When i build colosus they will just anti it with viking! C'mon! Nerf Triple.M |
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Sep 2 2010, 03:34 AM
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Junior Member
162 posts Joined: Aug 2007 From: Pearl of The Orient
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Edit : Might as well post replay. =.=
Sorry delete this post This post has been edited by noob4life: Sep 2 2010, 03:55 AM |
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Sep 2 2010, 03:43 AM
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Senior Member
2,125 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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I'm getting greatly demoralize lolx. losing streak man, gonna go play more melee game instead.
From this Nles sea Division Talematros Delta 3 731 74 61 54.8% 1202 To this Nles sea Division Talematros Delta 15 658 78 73 This post has been edited by nles: Sep 2 2010, 03:48 AM |
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Sep 2 2010, 04:02 AM
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Senior Member
3,410 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Wangsa Maju, Kuala Lumpur
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I lost 11 games and won only 1 today.
Talk about demoralize.. lol |
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Sep 2 2010, 08:56 AM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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lol..i stopped playing till i got my new laptop..i hate everytime i lose due to lagging issue when in war...
no micro = gg =.= |
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Sep 2 2010, 09:56 AM
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Senior Member
1,190 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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I was thinking my MM is so effective could be due to the collision size?
Small units clumped = more 'back' row getting shots in and not too much adjusting. Granted one weakness of this is AoE, but HTs to counter this T1.5 rush? Very sickening how toss has to be on the defence with sentries until the big guys are out. Really wish they kept the reaver now. Would be a damn good solution. |
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Sep 2 2010, 10:04 AM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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MMM can counter HT storm easily by stim and run =.="
I encountered my pro can dodge my storm easily everytime I casted it |
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Sep 2 2010, 10:10 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Sep 2 2010, 10:04 AM) MMM can counter HT storm easily by stim and run =.=" do defensive storms...I encountered my pro can dodge my storm easily everytime I casted it offensive storms are hard to hit vs good terrans... |
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Sep 2 2010, 10:12 AM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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lol, it only happen when I play offensively (which is a rare case cause I am sick of defensive play style)...
Added on September 2, 2010, 10:13 ambtw, one question: i always failed to zealot rush the FE zerg =.=" they can spawn zerglings more than me while my zealot rushing to their base =.= how to counter that ar? do canon? This post has been edited by raylee914: Sep 2 2010, 10:13 AM |
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Sep 2 2010, 10:13 AM
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Senior Member
958 posts Joined: Aug 2007 From: forum.lowyat.net
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Sep 2 2010, 10:04 AM) MMM can counter HT storm easily by stim and run =.=" Time to abuse force field to the max I encountered my pro can dodge my storm easily everytime I casted it Anyway i did something pretty funny before against Terran while using warp prism(protoss transport unit). I did deploying the warp prism behind the main fight and warp in HT underneath it. Then backstabbing all their units without letting him to run front and back |
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Sep 2 2010, 10:15 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Sep 2 2010, 10:12 AM) lol, it only happen when I play offensively (which is a rare case cause I am sick of defensive play style)... 10pylon 10gate chrono the first zealot...Added on September 2, 2010, 10:13 ambtw, one question: i always failed to zealot rush the FE zerg =.=" they can spawn zerglings more than me while my zealot rushing to their base =.= how to counter that ar? do canon? unless they spawn cross position, u should be there first... 1 zelaot can take on 4-6 lings depending on micro and having 2 greatly increase their potential... 3 of em can 1 shot a single ling... make a small choke vs zerg, if u see him trying to runby, pylon block ur choke... oh ya about the storm, u can use ur chargelots to get a good concave on the MMM ball then storm slightly further behind |
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Sep 2 2010, 10:15 AM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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@Azurues they will kill ur HT 1st and run back...easy =.="
This post has been edited by raylee914: Sep 2 2010, 10:19 AM |
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Sep 2 2010, 10:17 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Sep 2 2010, 10:15 AM) they will kill ur HT 1st and run back...easy =.=" how can they even reach ur HTs when ur chargelots are there 'storm outrange marines... |
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Sep 2 2010, 10:19 AM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Sep 2 2010, 10:17 AM) how can they even reach ur HTs when ur chargelots are there lol..i am refering to other 0.0'storm outrange marines... |
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Sep 2 2010, 10:31 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Sep 2 2010, 10:19 AM) lol..i am refering to other 0.0 the defensive storm?usually u have ur army covering ur HTs, as he chase after u, drop a defensive storm and it should deal around 60 damage by the time he manage to move out of it... |
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Sep 2 2010, 10:35 AM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Sep 2 2010, 10:31 AM) the defensive storm? i mean I am replying to Azureus who says that he used warp prism to drop HT behind the MMM group =.=usually u have ur army covering ur HTs, as he chase after u, drop a defensive storm and it should deal around 60 damage by the time he manage to move out of it... |
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Sep 2 2010, 10:36 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Sep 2 2010, 10:35 AM) i mean I am replying to Azureus who says that he used warp prism to drop HT behind the MMM group =.= lol swt >.<quote him next time to be clearer =p |
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Sep 2 2010, 10:37 AM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Sep 2 2010, 10:36 AM) lol swt >.< haha, u reply too fast in which I thought my reply will be under him..quote him next time to be clearer =p |
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Sep 2 2010, 01:39 PM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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I found that by following evo's advice regarding using your first and second stalker to poke at thier (Terran) wall forces them to be defensive giving you map advantage.
Been doing that for the past few games using stalkers to constantly pressure their entrance while warping in new ones. I follow this up by 2 void rays to pressure the back while destroying his buildings in the front. By the time he has tanks, my colossi tech is ready and reaching the base, then just move in and sweep. Certainly works in silver league as most of them don't have the micro to handle both the front and back pressure, but likely to get countered in higher tiers. |
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Sep 2 2010, 01:48 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(ZeratoS @ Sep 2 2010, 01:39 PM) I found that by following evo's advice regarding using your first and second stalker to poke at thier (Terran) wall forces them to be defensive giving you map advantage. yup and it provide u important scouting information...Been doing that for the past few games using stalkers to constantly pressure their entrance while warping in new ones. I follow this up by 2 void rays to pressure the back while destroying his buildings in the front. By the time he has tanks, my colossi tech is ready and reaching the base, then just move in and sweep. Certainly works in silver league as most of them don't have the micro to handle both the front and back pressure, but likely to get countered in higher tiers. to me in PvT, early scouting with probe is pretty useless as all u see is a racks unless he proxies which ur standard build would be more than enuff... i always prefer 1 zealot (good tank and for sight) 1 stalker poking sniping as many marines as i can... another reason for this would be to 'encourage' them to make marauders due to ur stalkers where u get VRs and burn them all away |
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Sep 2 2010, 02:34 PM
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Junior Member
35 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Sep 2 2010, 01:48 PM) yup and it provide u important scouting information... Oooh. Time to try it out.to me in PvT, early scouting with probe is pretty useless as all u see is a racks unless he proxies which ur standard build would be more than enuff... i always prefer 1 zealot (good tank and for sight) 1 stalker poking sniping as many marines as i can... another reason for this would be to 'encourage' them to make marauders due to ur stalkers where u get VRs and burn them all away But think I'll most probably lose those stalkers when I try to do something at base and look back to them. Either I lose them or I'll lost my void rays. I'm still kinda slow at my micro and macro... |
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Sep 2 2010, 02:41 PM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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Same to me..my micro sux..average 60-90.
max 200 (can do it by quickly warp in many units).>:D But the switch base to war field is still kinda slow for me now |
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Sep 2 2010, 02:44 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(tatyinw @ Sep 2 2010, 02:34 PM) Oooh. Time to try it out. u dun really need high apm to do it...But think I'll most probably lose those stalkers when I try to do something at base and look back to them. Either I lose them or I'll lost my void rays. I'm still kinda slow at my micro and macro... i'm a 50-70apm average player and i can do it... u just gotta make use of the waypoint function, follow function and hold position |
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Sep 2 2010, 03:26 PM
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Junior Member
35 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Sep 2 2010, 02:41 PM) Same to me..my micro sux..average 60-90. Mine is probably at 20-30. max 200 (can do it by quickly warp in many units).>:D But the switch base to war field is still kinda slow for me now I better open back a replay to see my average apm. The only time I get to 60-80 is when I'm on high I think, that is when I feel a lot of blood pumping and my heart starts to beat real fast. Don't really like the feeling, my hands are shaking after the game when that happens. QUOTE(evofantasy @ Sep 2 2010, 02:44 PM) u dun really need high apm to do it... Hmm. I'm good at using the waypoint. Seldom use follow though. I'll try it out. i'm a 50-70apm average player and i can do it... u just gotta make use of the waypoint function, follow function and hold position Hold position never used before for attacking. I only used it to lock my zealot in place not to let their zealots or zerglings in. Probably going to lose all of them while I try this out haha. But better to lose and learn. |
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Sep 2 2010, 03:31 PM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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waypoint? rally point?
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Sep 2 2010, 03:33 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Sep 2 2010, 03:31 PM) waypoint? rally point? waypoint, the one u hold shift to do...@tat hold position of zealot in ramp give u good vision to snipe wutever wall they have or to warp in units up the ramp kiwikaki style |
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Sep 2 2010, 03:39 PM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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What's kiwikaki style?
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Sep 2 2010, 03:41 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(incx @ Sep 2 2010, 03:39 PM) What's kiwikaki style? MLG raleigh...pylon placement which allows him to warp zealots up his opponent's ramp |
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Sep 2 2010, 04:36 PM
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Junior Member
35 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Sep 2 2010, 03:31 PM) waypoint? rally point? You can try a few things out like click on probe, then B E for pylon, left click to place it then, shift right click back on your minerals.That way your probe will go there place pylon and straight away go back to the mineral patch. Can also just waypoint your scouting probe to all the starting locations. Find the opponent already, waypoint your probe in circles and lastly back to base while you continue your macro at base. QUOTE(evofantasy @ Sep 2 2010, 03:33 PM) waypoint, the one u hold shift to do... Oh cool! gonna try that out. @tat hold position of zealot in ramp give u good vision to snipe wutever wall they have or to warp in units up the ramp kiwikaki style So basically that zealot would be just to eat damage until low on shield then swap with another to look up the ramp and snipe the wall. QUOTE(evofantasy @ Sep 2 2010, 03:41 PM) MLG raleigh... Wow. Haha. Nice thing to try also. But its like suicide to warp in over the wall. Sounds dangerous.pylon placement which allows him to warp zealots up his opponent's ramp Would be nice to warp in on the mineral line though. |
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Sep 2 2010, 04:39 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(tatyinw @ Sep 2 2010, 04:36 PM) You can try a few things out like click on probe, then B E for pylon, left click to place it then, shift right click back on your minerals. i do this pylon trick kinda often before MLG raleigh and it usually works as zealots are as usual meatshields =pThat way your probe will go there place pylon and straight away go back to the mineral patch. Can also just waypoint your scouting probe to all the starting locations. Find the opponent already, waypoint your probe in circles and lastly back to base while you continue your macro at base. Oh cool! gonna try that out. So basically that zealot would be just to eat damage until low on shield then swap with another to look up the ramp and snipe the wall. Wow. Haha. Nice thing to try also. But its like suicide to warp in over the wall. Sounds dangerous. Would be nice to warp in on the mineral line though. and it is isnta reinforcement... |
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Sep 2 2010, 04:44 PM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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oh ic..shift key 0.0
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Sep 2 2010, 04:50 PM
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Junior Member
35 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Sep 2 2010, 04:39 PM) i do this pylon trick kinda often before MLG raleigh and it usually works as zealots are as usual meatshields =p Haha sounds good.and it is isnta reinforcement... Hmm I'll try it out by building a pylon in front, then poke his back with void rays. If he go there to stop my void rays, I'll warp em in. |
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Sep 2 2010, 04:52 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(tatyinw @ Sep 2 2010, 04:50 PM) Haha sounds good. it takes some positioning as u dun want him to see the pylon =pHmm I'll try it out by building a pylon in front, then poke his back with void rays. If he go there to stop my void rays, I'll warp em in. |
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Sep 2 2010, 04:56 PM
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Junior Member
35 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Sep 2 2010, 04:52 PM) it takes some positioning as u dun want him to see the pylon =p Mmm. I'll probably lose a couple of pylons until I find the right distance. Hope it is not a couple of games haha. |
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Sep 2 2010, 05:10 PM
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Senior Member
791 posts Joined: Jul 2008
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Noob question but what's APM?
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Sep 2 2010, 05:22 PM
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Junior Member
203 posts Joined: Jan 2008 From: Shah Alam
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Action Per Minute. It's how many clicks and commands you issue in a minute. Basically, the higher your APM = the more commands/orders you can issue out. Though SC2 is not really APM based compared to SC1
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Sep 2 2010, 05:33 PM
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Junior Member
135 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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Anyone has any nice videos to post up? Wanna expand the library.
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Sep 2 2010, 05:36 PM
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Junior Member
203 posts Joined: Jan 2008 From: Shah Alam
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My replay all suck 1
Paiseh to show others, since so noob |
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Sep 2 2010, 05:41 PM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(incx @ Sep 2 2010, 05:33 PM) Anyone has any nice videos to post up? Wanna expand the library. ill upload more then i guess lol |
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Sep 2 2010, 07:11 PM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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Just hotkey your voids and stalkers seperately. I always have my Nexus on 1, army on 2 and voids on 3. Move the void in, when they run back, tab to stalkers and harass buildings. Likely they won't repair. If they do, snipe the SCV and repeat. Its alright to lose 1 stalker now and then especially when you have your 2 base and colossi tech going. After that just amplify to 6 gate 1 robo 1 stargate. Feel free to throw down some voids to catch their buildings that try to run.
You can even stop production for voids after the first one. ALL you need is that void to pressure them cause if they pull back their army the front will push through. Smart players will divide the marines from the marauders and leave like 5 or 6 at the back. This post has been edited by ZeratoS: Sep 2 2010, 07:12 PM |
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Sep 2 2010, 07:15 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(ZeratoS @ Sep 2 2010, 07:11 PM) Just hotkey your voids and stalkers seperately. I always have my Nexus on 1, army on 2 and voids on 3. Move the void in, when they run back, tab to stalkers and harass buildings. Likely they won't repair. If they do, snipe the SCV and repeat. Its alright to lose 1 stalker now and then especially when you have your 2 base and colossi tech going. After that just amplify to 6 gate 1 robo 1 stargate. Feel free to throw down some voids to catch their buildings that try to run. VR does a great job to contain the terran and create some form of 'fear'...You can even stop production for voids after the first one. ALL you need is that void to pressure them cause if they pull back their army the front will push through. Smart players will divide the marines from the marauders and leave like 5 or 6 at the back. but usually u can win right on the spot when u have the 2nd VR in ur army and u do a 2 pronged attack off 2 gate... |
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Sep 2 2010, 07:29 PM
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Senior Member
4,390 posts Joined: Oct 2004 From: Cheras, Malaysia
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how do u poke the ramp when there is no vision?
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Sep 2 2010, 07:44 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Sep 2 2010, 07:29 PM) how do u poke the ramp when there is no vision? putting a zealot in the middle of the ramp give u vision already...the positioning take some practice though... |
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Sep 2 2010, 07:45 PM
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Junior Member
9 posts Joined: Feb 2006
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Sep 2 2010, 07:44 PM) putting a zealot in the middle of the ramp give u vision already... Or you can just walk up with your stalkers..I poke that way and wait for shields to regen.the positioning take some practice though... |
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Sep 2 2010, 07:49 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(ov3rmind @ Sep 2 2010, 07:45 PM) Or you can just walk up with your stalkers..I poke that way and wait for shields to regen. depends on which part of the game...i usually move up wit a zealot since they are the 'tank'... early game, i would use my first stalker instead to pick off marines |
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Sep 2 2010, 10:54 PM
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Junior Member
414 posts Joined: Jan 2010
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i havent play multi yet..
seen couple yt vid, so, wondering why a lot of ppl arent using illusion? |
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Sep 2 2010, 11:32 PM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(dwks @ Sep 2 2010, 10:54 PM) i havent play multi yet.. i guess cause sentries are too gas intensive, the research take 100/100 and the sentry need to have 100 energy for each halucination which is TOO MUCH imhoseen couple yt vid, so, wondering why a lot of ppl arent using illusion? ps: i use it a lot lol This post has been edited by evofantasy: Sep 2 2010, 11:32 PM |
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Sep 3 2010, 01:29 AM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Sep 2 2010, 11:32 PM) i guess cause sentries are too gas intensive, the research take 100/100 and the sentry need to have 100 energy for each halucination which is TOO MUCH imho Doesn't it take forever even with CB to tech?ps: i use it a lot lol |
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Sep 3 2010, 02:24 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(ZeratoS @ Sep 3 2010, 01:29 AM) Doesn't it take forever even with CB to tech? nah its kinda fast...i usually spend 1 chrono on it only... faster than warptech for sure... |
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Sep 3 2010, 02:32 AM
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Senior Member
5,691 posts Joined: Mar 2006
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well i guess some units/techs are just extremely worthless? example i hardly ever see carriers.
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Sep 3 2010, 02:45 AM
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Senior Member
1,044 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: 127.0.0.1
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Carriers tada guna without proper support or mommaship. Its a big red target asking to be killed if you get carriers
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Sep 3 2010, 03:25 AM
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Junior Member
162 posts Joined: Aug 2007 From: Pearl of The Orient
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http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/2649...-SC2Replay.html
Heres a replay... hope sifus can help me identify my mistakes. PvP ... both were massing stalkers... wasn't really challenging cuz the dude didnt expand LOL. |
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Sep 3 2010, 03:33 AM
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Senior Member
2,690 posts Joined: Aug 2005 From: Penang/ Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(noob4life @ Sep 3 2010, 03:25 AM) http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/2649...-SC2Replay.html hmmm a little bz wit work so cant really help u...Heres a replay... hope sifus can help me identify my mistakes. PvP ... both were massing stalkers... wasn't really challenging cuz the dude didnt expand LOL. if no1 help here try the sc2kaki forums... |
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Sep 3 2010, 09:28 AM
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Junior Member
203 posts Joined: Jan 2008 From: Shah Alam
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Might have a look once I got back. Now in office, no SC2 ><
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Sep 3 2010, 09:42 AM
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Senior Member
5,366 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: KL Malaysia
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QUOTE(deodorant @ Sep 3 2010, 02:32 AM) well i guess some units/techs are just extremely worthless? example i hardly ever see carriers. expensive, slow, and big red 'shoot me' sign and once it karam, you shitbrix |
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Sep 3 2010, 09:53 AM
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Junior Member
203 posts Joined: Jan 2008 From: Shah Alam
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Carriers r good, but if you're caught during transition then you're pretty much dead. And Carriers alone won't cut it. You'll still need support ground units. Besides.....a Viking can kite the shit out of Carriers easily
" And Corruptors are really big fat tanks with corruption ability, which makes Carriers even suck. Needless to say, if your opponent isn't prepare for it, you'll still win the game.... |
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Sep 3 2010, 10:16 AM
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Junior Member
35 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Malaysia
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Yea Carriers are quite weak against air to air units. But if you support them with stalkers, they are quite safe since the carrier can take quite a beating.
Never run them into a base full of missile turrets though. The carriers may have a good range but all your interceptors will die in the process. But if there's only 1 or 2, go and own them with your carriers. |
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Sep 3 2010, 10:21 AM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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carrier's interceptors in sc2 are so bloody easy to die =.=
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Sep 3 2010, 11:57 AM
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Senior Member
2,446 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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But you only need to build 4 for 8 interceptors
I wonder if we could chrono boost our interceptors against mass turret missles LOLS Nevertheless it is an awesome unit if its in a MASS not 1 or 2 |
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Sep 3 2010, 12:03 PM
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Junior Member
203 posts Joined: Jan 2008 From: Shah Alam
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You can chrono boost units? O_o I didn't know that -.-;;
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Sep 3 2010, 12:14 PM
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Junior Member
56 posts Joined: Mar 2007
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He say "If can" lol...
My 12 carriers are still useless against 12 vikings+4 BC ^^ viking too OP..lol |
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