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TSjhcj
post Nov 30 2005, 04:26 PM

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I'm planning on preparing basic japanese lessons by adapting them from a book that I'm reading. Hopefully, this'll be carried out on a "3 days a week" basis, although I cant promise much in case I'm busy. To start it of, we shall first look at the basics of the japanese language.

Try to keep spam to a minimum here, so that reading through the thread is easier. And while it is good to be able to learn hiragana, katakana and kanji, everything here will be romanji, cause I figured it'd be easier that way for the casual reader. Of course, those who are capable of reading japanese can feel free to contribute with japanese text for everyone's benefit, and also to correct me if I made any mistakes. sweat.gif

LESSON 1
Pronounciation guide
The japanese alphabet is made up of sounds created by mixing the 5 vowels (a, e, i, o, u) with a consonant (letters which are not vowels). While it is quite easy to pronounce most words, sometimes special care is taken when dealing with certain elements. These are a) long syllables, B) the letter n, c) double consonants, d) silent vowels and e) pronounciation of non-japanese words. I will cover each of these in order.

a) Long syllables
Whenever the - symbol is written above a particular vowel, it indicates that the sound is a long sound. An example of this is the word Tōkyō, which when spoken sounds like to-o-kyo-o. In other words, you hold the sound for twice the normal length.

B) The letter "n"
In the japanese language, the letter "n" is a syllable by itself. For example, konnichiwa (hello) is spoken as ko-n-ni-chi-wa and not ko-ni-chi-wa or kon-ni-chi-wa. Also, when n is followed by p, b or m, its sound softens to a "m" sound. For example, ganbatte (good luck) is spoken as gambatte, and sanpaku (three nights) is spoken as sampaku.

Where n is followed by a vowel, an apostrophe (') is used to distinguish the sound "n" from the sounds na, ni, nu, ne and no. For example, ten'in (shopkeeper) is pronounced as te-n-i-n and not te-ni-n.

c) Double consonants
A double consonant indicates that you should pause slightly before saying it, as you would in the english words headdress (pause after the hea- not head dress) and bookcase (pause after boo). In japanese, these are the double consonants that are usually encountered: -kk, ss, tt, tc, pp. For example, the words gambatte (good luck), hokkaido (north island of japan), massugu (straight on).

d) Silent vowels
Sometimes, the vowels i and u are silent and almost unvoiced. This will be indicated as brackets around the vowel. For example, des(u) (it is) is almost always pronounced as des, s(u)ki as s-ki, and ikimas(u) as ikimas.

e) Pronounciation of non-japanese words
Foreign words often have to be adapted to the japanese sound system. For example: Sukotto - Scott, Furansu - France, Satchā - Thatcher, etc. There is no th sound in japanese, so s is used instead (just as b is used to replace v e.g. Ba-ra-ri-i for Valerie.

----------------------------------------------
Links to other lessons:
LESSON 2: How to pronounce syllables, here
LESSON 3: Hajimemashite - how do you do?, here
LESSON 4: Marēshia-jin desu - I'm Malaysian, here
LESSON 5: O-shigoto wa nan desu ka - what is your occupation?, here
LESSON 6: Sūji - numbers (Part 1), here
LESSON 7: Kazoku wa gonin desu = there are five people in my family, here
LESSON 8: Ima nanji desu ka = what time is it now?, here
LESSON 9: Ikura desu ka = how much is it?, here
LESSON 10: Yūbinkyoku wa doko desu ka = where is the post office?, here
LESSON 11: Nichiyōbi ni nani o shimasu ka = what do you do on Sundays?, here
LESSON 12: Pāti o shimashō = let's have a party!, here
LESSON 13: Sūji - numbers (Part 2), here
LESSON 14: Senshū Kyōto ni ikimashita = last week I went to Kyoto, here
LESSON 15: Ii o-tenki desu ne = it's nice weather, isn't it?, here
LESSON 16: Supōtsu wa tenisu ga suki desu = the sport I like is tennis, here
LESSON 17a: Kaimono = shopping, here
LESSON 17b: Kaimono = shopping, here
LESSON 18: Bīru o ippon kudasai = a bottle of beer, please, here
LESSON 19: O-kane = money, here
LESSON 20: Yoyaku shitai desu = I want to make a reservation, here
LESSON 21: Asobi ni kite kudasai = please come and visit, here

----------------------------------------------
Places offering Japanese language classes in Malaysia
Japan Foundation Kuala Lumpur's directory: here (Contributed by boringpig)

----------------------------------------------
Useful links to other Japanese self-study websites
ECIS (an audio and video progamme): here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
Free Japanese Lessons: here (Contributed by netfan)
Japanese-Online.com: here (Contributed by netfan)
Learn Japanese Online: here (Contributed by netfan)
Meguro Language Center (Tokyo) Free Study Materials: here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
mic-J Audio Visual Resources for Japanese Instruction: here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
NHK World Japanese Lessons: here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
Nihongo.3Yen.com: here
Nihongo o oshiete: here
Real World Japanese: here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
TheJapanesePage.com: here

----------------------------------------------
Online resources e.g. dictionaries, etc.
Free Japanese Dictionary: here (Contributed by xxboxx)
Improve your kanji: here (Contributed by oe_kintaro)
Japanese-English Learner's Dictionary: here (Contributed by Zeten)
Japanese<->English Dictionary: here
Kanji Converter: here (Contributed by shinchan^^)

----------------------------------------------
Online proficiency tests
English-Japanese Vocabulary Quizzes: here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
Internet Japanese test: here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
Sample questions for JLPT (Level 1-4): here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
Some review questions: here (Contributed by aburex)

----------------------------------------------
Downloads
Head on over to Gmail and use the following information to access some e-books.

Username: japlesson
Password: japlesson123


So far the following e-books are uploaded:
1. Japanese for Busy People - Kana Workbook
2. Lets Learn Japanese Basic 1 - Volume 1
3. Lets Learn Japanese Basic 1 - Volume 2
4. Lets Learn Japanese Basic 1 - Volume 3
5. JLPT 1991-1999 Level 1 Test Papers (Contributed by ninjamerah)
6. JLPT 1991-1999 Level 2 Test Papers (Contributed by ninjamerah)
7. JLPT 1991-1999 Level 3 Test Papers (Contributed by ninjamerah)
8. JLPT 1991-1999 Level 4 Test Papers (Contributed by ninjamerah)
9. 1000 Kanji

PLEASE PLEASE do not misuse this email address. Just get the files you need, and dont do anything else. Thanks!

Files have been deleted by an unknown person(s). sad.gif

Special download!
Declan's Flashcard software for learning Kanji. Download here! Many thanks to Dark Steno for the file hosting!

----------------------------------------------
Video Lessons! (DEFINITELY not 56k friendly sweat.gif)
Streaming videos of japanese lessons hosted at www.youtube.com. These videos go hand in hand with the Let's Learn Japanese Basic 1 series of e-books which you can get from the Gmail account above.

If you want to view the videos, my advice is that you allow the videos to load, read up the appropriate chapter (print them out if possible), and use the readings as a guide when you watch the videos. It'll really help! smile.gif

All videos have been removed by Youtube.com cry.gif

----------------------------------------------
Tips (Contributed by netfan)
Try searching for and entering Japanese chat rooms on MSN or Yahoo that offer Japanese lessons, or have native japanese who are willing to practise with you. But er...no hanky panky ok? sweat.gif

----------------------------------------------
Learn hiragana,katakana and kanji (Contributed by shinmei88)
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...&#entry18040984
(edited by HMMaster)

This post has been edited by jhcj: Sep 14 2008, 01:11 AM
ellimist
post Nov 30 2005, 04:55 PM

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Asked on ur bloggie but I'll ask it here anyways tongue.gif

1.I have no idea how to pronounce "n" by itself (ko-n-ni-chi-wa <--whoa woot?) How do you do it? (lol maybe u could pronounce it for me over the weekend)

2.How bout the whole "r" and "l" thingie.Like roku (six?) is spelled tat way but pronounced as "lok" rite?
seaotter
post Nov 30 2005, 05:07 PM

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From: I can hear Planes taking off...

well...from what I'VE learned:

1. 'n' is prounounced "nnn", basicaly the N without the 'e'. we all say n "enn" what tongue.gif this n is the sanem as how you pronounce n in "name" or "naik".

2. well.....coz they dont have the consonant L in their language, every l is somewhat pronounced "rr"...and true the other way round coz of the way our brain is . and the 'u' int he "roku" is sometimes silent, or bately heard. same as "tsu" and "su" so, roku can be pronounced "roku" or "rok-u" where the 'u' is silent. this 'u' is pronounced something like you say 'u' in "udang" or "udon" or "ular"

lol...i kind of hijacked the thread. sorry jhcj tongue.gif
xxboxx
post Nov 30 2005, 08:45 PM

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yo, promoting japanese is the way to go in anime-shrine thumbup.gif
to speak japanese, get "Pimsleur's Comprehensive Japanese (Ogg)(complete)" from piratebay. better fast, coz only left 4 seeders.

and if you think you're "yabai" enough, get "Remembering the kanji" from piratebay to learn kanji.
Dark Steno
post Nov 30 2005, 08:49 PM

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I dont find pronunciation is that hard for Japanese. French and Russian are among the hardest.
linkinstreet
post Nov 30 2005, 08:52 PM

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i never learnt the pronouncations T.T
just have limited knowledge in that.
and i only have mangas and a dictionary to learn how to read..
Dark Steno
post Nov 30 2005, 08:55 PM

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QUOTE(linkinstreet @ Nov 30 2005, 08:52 PM)
i never learnt the pronouncations T.T
just have limited knowledge in that.
and i only have mangas and a dictionary to learn how to read..
*
Dictionary not enough. I need the bloody kanji cards. laugh.gif
linkinstreet
post Nov 30 2005, 08:59 PM

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manga got many kanji, but they also have furigana at the side.
amazingly, the 1st kanji that i remembered was "Shi" as in dead, die, or death tongue.gif
ellimist
post Nov 30 2005, 09:00 PM

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I can't read or speak Jap for nuts. (can only say few of those command words,lol)
Dark Steno
post Nov 30 2005, 09:03 PM

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QUOTE(linkinstreet @ Nov 30 2005, 08:59 PM)
manga got many kanji, but they also have furigana at the side.
amazingly, the 1st kanji that i remembered was "Shi" as in dead, die, or death tongue.gif
*
cool.gif Yeah but for a guy like, it would take a whole week to decrypt a single chapter.
linkinstreet
post Nov 30 2005, 09:12 PM

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I buy shounen jump,
and when i started, it took a chapter 3 hours T.T
nowadays can read okay
igor_is300
post Dec 1 2005, 09:09 AM

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QUOTE(linkinstreet @ Nov 30 2005, 09:12 PM)
I buy shounen jump,
and when i started, it took a chapter 3 hours T.T
nowadays can read okay
*
You done very well
TSjhcj
post Dec 1 2005, 09:10 AM

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QUOTE(ellimist @ Nov 30 2005, 04:55 PM)
Asked on ur bloggie but I'll ask it here anyways tongue.gif

1.I have no idea how to pronounce "n" by itself (ko-n-ni-chi-wa <--whoa woot?) How do you do it? (lol maybe u could pronounce it for me over the weekend)

2.How bout the whole "r" and "l" thingie.Like roku (six?) is spelled tat way but pronounced as "lok" rite?
*
Read below for the syllable pronounciation guide. And yeah, I'll fill you in over the weekend. tongue.gif

QUOTE(seaotter @ Nov 30 2005, 05:07 PM)
well...from what I'VE learned:

1. 'n' is prounounced "nnn", basicaly the N without the 'e'. we all say n "enn" what tongue.gif this n is the sanem as how you pronounce n in "name" or "naik".

2. well.....coz they dont have the consonant L in their language, every l is somewhat pronounced "rr"...and true the other way round coz of the way our brain is . and the 'u' int he "roku" is sometimes silent, or bately heard. same as "tsu" and "su" so, roku can be pronounced "roku" or "rok-u" where the 'u' is silent. this 'u' is pronounced something like you say 'u' in "udang" or "udon" or "ular"

lol...i kind of hijacked the thread. sorry jhcj tongue.gif
*
Hey nice explanation dude. And nah, you didnt hijack the thread. Thanks for helping! thumbup.gif

QUOTE(xxboxx @ Nov 30 2005, 08:45 PM)
yo, promoting japanese is the way to go in anime-shrine thumbup.gif
to speak japanese, get "Pimsleur's Comprehensive Japanese (Ogg)(complete)" from piratebay. better fast, coz only left 4 seeders.

and if you think you're "yabai" enough, get "Remembering the kanji" from piratebay to learn kanji.
*
There are about 2000 kanji in the japanese language, of which 1945 is considered essential. ph34r.gif Out of this, 1006 is taught in schools. If you ask me, I'd say...HOLY SH- laugh.gif
TSjhcj
post Dec 1 2005, 10:25 AM

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LESSON 2
How to pronounce syllables
In the english language, sometimes certain syllables are stressed when you speak. For example, the letter a can vary as follows:

man, mate, mayor.

In contrast, in japanese the letter a is always pronounced as in man. The five japanese vowels in order are:

a as in man
i as in hit
u as in blue
e as in end
o as in hot.

Japanese Sound Chart
CODE
R = romanji   H = hiragana  K = katakana
-----------------
R  |  H  |  K
-----------------
a  |  あ  |  ア  
i  |  い  |  イ  
u  |  う  |  ウ  
e  |  え  |  エ  
o  |  お  |  オ  
-----------------
ka |  か  |  カ  
ki |  き  |  キ  
ku |  く  |  ク  
ke |  け  |  ケ  
ko |  こ  |  コ  
-----------------
sa |  さ  |  サ  
shi|  し  |  シ  
su |  す  |  ス  
se |  せ  |  セ  
so |  そ  |  ソ  
-----------------
ta |  た  |  タ  
chi|  ち  |  チ
tsu|  つ  |  ツ  <----- tsu is an unfamiliar sound for English speakers; it is
te |  て  |  テ         only one syllable (or beat); squash the t and s
to |  と  |  ト         together as you say them.
-----------------
na |  な  |  ナ  
ni |  に  |  ニ  
nu |  ぬ  |  ヌ  
ne |  ね  |  ネ  
no |  の  |  ノ  
-----------------
ha |  は  |  ハ  
hi |  ひ  |  ヒ  
fu |  ふ  |  フ  <----- fu is a soft sound, between f and h. Your front teeth dont
he |  へ  |  ヘ         touch your lips as you say it; air is let out between your
ho |  ほ  |  ホ         teeth and lips.
-----------------
ma |  ま  |  マ
mi |  み  |  ミ
mu |  む  |  ム
me |  め  |  メ
mo |  も  |  モ
-----------------
ya |  や  |  ヤ
yu |  ゆ  |  ユ
yo |  よ  |  ヨ
-----------------
ra |  ら  |  ラ
ri |  り  |  リ          r is a soft sound, somewhere between r and l, and not like the
ru |  る  |  ル          French r sound.
re |  れ  |  レ
ro |  ろ  |  ロ
-----------------
wa |  わ  |  ワ
n  |  ん  |  ン          n has a full beat.
-----------------
ga |  が  |  ガ
gi |  ぎ  |  ギ
gu |  ぐ  |  グ          g as in get, not gin.
ge |  げ  |  ゲ
go |  ご  |  ゴ
-----------------
za |  ざ  |  ザ
ji |  じ  |  ジ
zu |  ず  |  ズ
ze |  ぜ  |  ゼ
zo |  ぞ  |  ゾ
-----------------
ba |  ば  |  バ
bi |  び  |  ビ          There are no v sounds in Japanese; and b is substituted
bu |  ぶ  |  ブ          for foreign words.
be |  べ  |  ベ
bo |  ぼ  |  ボ
-----------------
pa |  ぱ  |  パ
pi |  ぴ  |  ピ
pu |  ぷ  |  プ
pe |  ぺ  |  ペ
po |  ぽ  |  ポ
-----------------
da |  だ  |  ダ
de |  で  |  デ
do |  ど  |  ド

The final set of sounds in the sound chart consists of a consonant plus ya, yu or yo. These also have single beats (i.e. they have one syllable), although people sometimes make the mistake of pronouncing them with two beats. For example, sometimes people pronounce the first sound in Kyoto as ki-yo instead of ky.
CODE

-----------------
R  |  H  |  K
-----------------
kya| きゃ | キャ
kyu| きゅ | キュ
kyo| きょ | キョ
-----------------
sha| しゃ | シャ
shu| しゅ | シュ
sho| しょ | ショ
-----------------
cha| ちゃ | チャ  <----- cha as in chance, not character
chu| ちゅ | チュ
cho| ちょ | チョ
-----------------
nya| にゃ | ニャ
nyu| にゅ | ニュ
nyo| にょ | ニョ
-----------------
hya| ひゃ | ヒャ
hyu| ひゅ | ヒュ
hyo| ひょ | ヒョ
-----------------
mya| みゃ | ミャ
myu| みゅ | ミュ
myo| みょ | ミョ
-----------------
rya| りゃ | リャ
ryu| りゅ | リュ
ryo| りょ | リョ
-----------------
gya| ぎゃ | ギャ
gyu| ぎゅ | ギュ
gyo| ぎょ | ギョ
-----------------
ja | じゃ | ジャ  <----- ja as in jam (not the German ja)
ju | じゅ | ジュ
jo | じょ | ジョ
-----------------
bya| びゃ | ビャ
byu| びゅ | ビュ
byo| びょ | ビョ
-----------------
pya| ぴゃ | ピャ
pyu| ぴゅ | ピュ
pyo| ぴょ | ピョ
-----------------


This post has been edited by jhcj: Mar 6 2006, 01:50 PM
TSjhcj
post Dec 1 2005, 02:03 PM

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And because I have alot of free time in the office, I present...Lesson 3! XD

LESSON 3: Hajimemashite = How do you do?

Vocabulary list
Greetings
- ohay gozaimas(u) = good morning
- konnichiwa = hello; good afternoon (late morning onwards)
- konbanwa = good evening
- oyasumi = good night
- saynara = goodbye (a formal expression)
- bai bai = goodbye (informal)
- ja mata ne! = see you!
- mata ash(i)ta = see you tomorrow

Introductions
- hajimemash(i)te = how do you do?
- dzo yorosh(i)ku = pleased to meet you
- kochira wa ...san = this person is ...mr/mrs/miss/ms (addressing someone else)
- dmo arigat (gozaimas(u)) = thank you (very much)
- arigat = thanks
- sumimasen = excuse me; sorry
- hai = yes
- iie = no
- desu = am, is, are

Sample conversation
Reiko Yamaguchi and her son Takeshi are meeting Anne Jenkins at Narita International Airport. Reiko sees an English girl standing on her own...

Reiko: Ano... An Jenkins(u)-san desu ka.
Girl: Iie...
Reiko: (embarassed) A! Sumimasen.
Takeshi: (also embarassed) Oksan!

Anne is waiting nearby and sees Reiko's sign with her name on it.
Anne: Sumimasen, Yamaguchi-san des(u) ka.
Reiko: Hai, s des(u)!
Anne: Hajimemash(i)te. An Jenkins(u) des(u). Dzo yorosh(i)ku (she bows).
Reiko: (bowing) Hajimemash(i)te. Yamaguchi Reiko des(u). Dzo yorosh(i)ku.

Reiko then introduces her son to Anne.
Reiko: Kore wa Takeshi des(u). Mus(u)ko des(u).
Takeshi: (bowing) Dzo yorosh(i)ku.
Anne: (bowing) Dzo yorosh(i)ku.

On the way home by train, Takeshi bumps into his friend, Jun. He introduces Anne to Jun.
Takeshi: Konnichiwa!
Jun: Konnichiwa!
Takeshi: Kochira wa An Jenkins(u)-san des(u).
Jun: Hajimemash(i)te. Suzuki Jun des(u). Dzo yorosh(i)ku (bows).

After they've reached their destination...
Takeshi: Ja mata ne!
Jun: Mata ash(i)ta!

Extras
ano = a hesitation word, like erm, er.
ka = indicates a question
oksan = mother
s des(u) = that's right
mus(u)ko = (my) son

Explanations
1. An Jenkinsu-san desu ka Are you Miss Anne Jenkins?
The Japanese use san when they address other people. It is attached to the end of the name and can be used with either the surname or first name, although Japanese generally use surnames unless they know the person really well. It is very important to use san when addressing Japanese people, otherwise it would be considered impolite. There are more polite and casual forms of san:
- sama is used when addressing letters and in more formal situations;
- kun is used for young boys and by men who know each other well;
- chan may be used between children or by adults when they adress children;
- teachers and professors have sensei attached to their names.

2. Hajimemashite, Yamaguchi Reiko desu How do you do? I'm Reiko Yamaguchi.
A second point to remember about san is that it is never used when addressing yourself or your own family. Read the conversation to see examples of this e.g. Hajimemashite. Suzuki Jun desu, or Kore wa Takeshi desu.

3. Hajimemashite. An Jenkinsu desu. Dzo yoroshiku How do you do. I am Anne Jenkins. Pleased to meet you.
When you first meet someone you use the formal phrases hajimemashite and dzo yoroshiku. After you say your name you use desu (I am). The same word is used for you/we/they are and it/she/he is. Also, desu comes at the end of the sentence.

4. Yamaguchi-san desu ka Are you Mrs Yamaguchi
To make a question in Japanese you say ka at the end of the sentence. Think of it as a spoken question mark. When ka is written at the end of a sentence, there is no need to write a question mark as well. For example:
- Yamaguchi-san desu ka = Are you Mrs Yamaguchi?
- Tky desu ka = Is it Tokyo?

5. Kochira wa An Jenkinsu-san desu This is Miss Anne Jenkins
To introduce someone else in person you use the phrase kochira wa. For example:
- kochira wa An Jenkinsu-san desu = This is Miss Anne Jenkins.
- kochira wa Yamaguchi Takeshi-san desu = This is Takeshi Yamaguchi.

However, you dont use kochira when introducing members of your own family. Instead, you can use the informal phrase kore (this is) as Reiko does:
- kore wa Takeshi desu = This is Takeshi.

-----------------------------------------------------

PRACTISE FOR LESSON 3 - click me!

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 4 2005, 09:52 AM
xxboxx
post Dec 1 2005, 04:46 PM

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wow! jhcj, did you study japanese before? thumbup.gif
what does An stands for? like you use for:
QUOTE
Hajimemashite. An Jenkinsu desu. Dzo yoroshiku
Kochira wa An Jenkinsu-san desu

ellimist
post Dec 1 2005, 05:09 PM

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QUOTE(xxboxx @ Dec 1 2005, 04:46 PM)
wow! jhcj, did you study japanese before? thumbup.gif
what does An stands for? like you use for:
*
He self-studies Japanese,like any other otaku would tongue.gif

Anyways I think the "An" is refering to Anne,Jap way of saying it smile.gif
xxboxx
post Dec 1 2005, 07:01 PM

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QUOTE(ellimist @ Dec 1 2005, 05:09 PM)
He self-studies Japanese,like any other otaku would tongue.gif

Anyways I think the "An" is refering to Anne,Jap way of saying it smile.gif
*
so desu ka? now look it over and just realise it. blush.gif
i also now learning nihongo smile.gif
TSjhcj
post Dec 1 2005, 10:24 PM

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Yep, An stands for Anne. And I'm not otaku level...yet. laugh.gif I've always been interested in learning the Japanese language, that's all. smile.gif
princelsy
post Dec 1 2005, 10:27 PM

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do u all know any play that offer jap. classes?
TSjhcj
post Dec 2 2005, 09:13 AM

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Feedback from a forumer, allenultra: Isn't hajimemashite only used when u meet a person for the first time? You sure hajimemashite = how do u do? Can be used all the time?

As per number 3 in the Explanation section of Lesson 3, you use the formal phrases hajimemashite and dzo yoroshiku when you first meet someone. After that, the greetings that you use whenever you meet the same person will vary to some extent depending on the time of the day e.g. konnichiwa, konbanwa, etc. And about the translation, I'm rather sure hajimemashite is roughly translated to "how do you do", and I think that the phrase "hajime" means something like "first time" or "beginning" (I could be wrong lol). Maybe aburex can help here? tongue.gif

Konnichiwa is often translated as hello, but the first thing you would say in the morning is ohay gozaimasu (good morning) or ohay to a friend or within the family. In the evening you would say konbanwa (good evening). Konnichiwa is used later in the morning through to early evening.

Thanks for the question allenultra! I aint no pro yet, but I hope this helps! sweat.gif

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 2 2005, 12:22 PM
ykj
post Dec 2 2005, 09:30 AM

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kore & kochira (polite) has the same meaning though
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post Dec 2 2005, 09:40 AM

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This thread delivers. Now I can be a 'meeaboo' too. lol.
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post Dec 2 2005, 10:00 AM

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QUOTE(ykj @ Dec 2 2005, 09:30 AM)
kore & kochira (polite) has the same meaning though
*
Yes, same meaning, but different usage depending on the situation.

From lesson 3, explanation 5:
To introduce someone else in person you use the phrase kochira wa. However, you dont use kochira when introducing members of your own family. Instead, you can use the informal phrase kore.
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post Dec 2 2005, 12:21 PM

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sugoi dess thumbup.gif

oh btw, in contructing a sentence in japs, object or subject should begin 1st?

This post has been edited by e-jump: Dec 2 2005, 12:23 PM
ellimist
post Dec 2 2005, 12:48 PM

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QUOTE(e-jump @ Dec 2 2005, 12:21 PM)
sugoi dess thumbup.gif

oh btw, in contructing a sentence in japs, object or subject should begin 1st?
*
I believe that will be covered in future lessons smile.gif
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post Dec 2 2005, 12:50 PM

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QUOTE(e-jump @ Dec 2 2005, 12:21 PM)
sugoi dess thumbup.gif

oh btw, in contructing a sentence in japs, object or subject should begin 1st?
*
aiyo...
even though they say it as "dess" ( with the silent u), you still have to spell it as desu liao tongue.gif

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post Dec 2 2005, 12:56 PM

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QUOTE(e-jump @ Dec 2 2005, 12:21 PM)
sugoi dess thumbup.gif

oh btw, in contructing a sentence in japs, object or subject should begin 1st?
*
Err...I'm not THAT good yet. sweat.gif But I'll cover some of it in Lesson 4 (compiling the information now). tongue.gif

QUOTE(ellimist @ Dec 2 2005, 12:48 PM)
I believe that will be covered in future lessons smile.gif
*
Yep.

QUOTE(seaotter @ Dec 2 2005, 12:50 PM)
aiyo...
even though they say it as "dess" ( with the silent u), you still have to spell it as desu liao  tongue.gif
*
Hehe, well if you really want to be proper about it, then yeah, it should be spelt as desu and not des. But then again, asal faham cukuplah. tongue.gif
xxboxx
post Dec 2 2005, 01:27 PM

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your link for 2nd and 3rd lesson didn't work correctly. you should put at such:
CODE
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=224407&view=findpost&p=
the last part you should put the post number. example 2nd lesson = 5406900
TSjhcj
post Dec 2 2005, 01:39 PM

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QUOTE(xxboxx @ Dec 2 2005, 01:27 PM)
your link for 2nd and 3rd lesson didn't work correctly. you should put at such:
CODE
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=224407&view=findpost&p=
the last part you should put the post number. example 2nd lesson = 5406900
*
A sumimasen. Arigat! blush.gif
320cbr
post Dec 2 2005, 02:16 PM

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hey nice jhcj thumbup.gif
but if you guys seriously want to learn japanese u should go take classes
private classes where they teach u one by one is by far the best smile.gif, easier & faster for u to learn
trust me, u won't learn perfect japanese through only books

though i heard japanese classes in KL are veri expensive
they could easily go RM1000+ for i think half a semester?
so you could save up some time and money if u learnt the basic already
so good job

and if u do take japanese classes, i suggest u to learn how to write aswell, coz it totally worth it
my teacher say most malay don't learn kanji
chinese got no prob they are used to chinese characters
one note for chinese who think they can read japanese thru kanji is that not only the pronounciations are different but some kanji are also have different meaning
for example 'doctor' in chinese is 医生, in japanese it is 医者

This post has been edited by 320cbr: Dec 2 2005, 02:17 PM
320cbr
post Dec 2 2005, 02:24 PM

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in my opinion asian should have no problems pronouncing in japanese
those westeners are the only ones havin problem - those wapanese tongue.gif

and btw jhjc i think u should write them in full spellings 'desu'
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post Dec 2 2005, 02:50 PM

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QUOTE(320cbr @ Dec 2 2005, 02:16 PM)
hey nice jhcj thumbup.gif
but if you guys seriously want to learn japanese u should go take classes
*
If you guys are serious AND have the money (and time maybe) then take classes.But I don't have tat kinda money,so learnin here should give me erm..basic speech abilities,lol

This post has been edited by ellimist: Dec 2 2005, 02:51 PM
TSjhcj
post Dec 2 2005, 03:14 PM

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LESSON 4: Marēshia-jin desu = I'm Malaysian

Vocabulary list
Countries
- marēshia = malaysia
- igirisu = england
- amerika = america
- nihon = japan
- chūgoku = china

Languages
- marei-go = malay
- eigo = english
- nihon-go = japanese
- chugoku-go = chinese

Nationalities
- marēshia-jin = malaysian
- igirisu-jin = british
- amerika-jin = american
- nihon-jin = japanese
- chūgoku-jin = chinese

Useful items
- tokei = watch or clock
- hon = book
- empits(u) = pencil
- pen = pen
- kompyūta = computer
- terebi = television <--- the japanese sound system does not have the "v" sound, remember?

Useful phrases
- ... wa nihon-go de nan des(u) ka = what is ... in japanese?
- nan des(u) ka = what is it?
- o-namae wa? = what's your name?
- shitsurei shimas(u) = pardon me for interrupting

Sample conversation
Anne has settled into her new life with the Yamaguchi family, and today is her first day at a Japanese language school. Her teacher, Satō-sensei, is getting all the students to introduce themselves.

Satō-sensei: Mina-san, ohayō gozaimasu.
Class: Sensei, ohayō gozaimasu.
Satō-sensei: Hajimemashite, Satō desu. Watashi wa Nihon-jin desu. Dōzo yoroshiku. (She points to Anne) Hai, dōzo.
Anne: An desu. Watashi wa Igirisu-jin desu. Dōzo yoroshiku.
Next student: Tani desu. Furansu-jin desu. Dōzo yoroshiku.
Student 2: Ano... Haidi desu. Doitsu (Germany) kara desu. Dōzo yoroshiku.
Student 3: Sukotto desu. Ē to, ē to ... America wa nihon-go de nan desu ka.
Satō-sensei: America wa nihon-go de A-me-ri-ka desu.
Scott: (amidst laughter) Aa! so desu ka. Ja, Amerika kara desu. Dōzo yoroshiku.

A new student arrives late...
New student: Shitsurei shimasu. (he bows)
Scott: O-namae wa?
New student: Han desu. Chūgoku-jin desu.
Anne: (looks puzzled) Chūgoku wa eigo de nan desu ka.
Han: China desu.

Satō-sensei now proceeds to check how many everyday objects the students know.
Satō-sensei: (points to her watch) Kore wa nihon-go de nan desu ka.
Han: Tokei desu.
Scott: (looking at watch) Nihon no tokei desu.
Satō-sensei: So desu. (picks up Anne's coat) Kore wa nan desu ka.
Tani: Kōto desu.
Scott: (showing off a bit) Igirisu no kōto desu.
Anne: Iie, sukottorando (Scotland) no kōto desu yo.

Extras
mina-san = everybody
watashi wa = i
hai, dōzo = go ahead; there you are
kara = from
ē to = another hesitation word (er, erm)
kore wa = this
yo = i tell you, actually

Explanations
1. Watashi wa Nihon-jin desu I'm Japanese.
Watashi means I and anata means you. There are other words for he/she/we/etc., but the Japanese tend not to use them unless it needs to be made clear who is being talked about. Boku is often used by males instead of watashi. In contrast, atashi is the form often used by females (both of these are more casual forms). Ore is least polite, and can be used by both males or females. - contributed by 320cbr.

When addressing other people it is more polite to use their names instead of anata, and unless you need to emphasize I, there is no need to say watashi/boku.

Wa is used after a word to show that that word is the 'topic' (subject) of whatever is being talked about. It can sometimes be translated as as for in English:
- Watashi wa Amerika-jin desu = I (subject) am American. (As for me, I am American)
- Haidi-san wa Doitsu kara desu = Heidi (subject) is from Germany (As for Heidi, she comes from Germany)

2. O-namae wa? What's your name?
In point 1 it is already mentioned that it is more polite to use people's names when addressing them istead of using anata (you). The japanese language has other ways of avoiding the use of anata. One of these is the use of "o" in front of certain words to make them sound more polite or formal when addressing other people. However, you dont use it to talk about yourself or your family members. Here are some examples:
- o-namae = your name
- namae = (my) name
- o-shigoto = your job
- shigoto = (my) job

3. Doitsu kara desu I'm from Germany.
Kara means from and follows the word, unlike English where we say from first. For example:
- Tōkyō kara = from Tokyo
- Furansu kara = from France
- (watashi wa) Igirisu kara desu = i'm from England
- kono uisuki wa Sukottorando kara desu = this whisky is from Scotland

4. Nihon no tokei desu It's a Japanese watch
The word no, when inserted between two words works something like 's in English:
- An-san no kōto = Anne's coat
- sensei no tēpu = the teacher's tape

It also gives meaning of my, your, etc. For example:
- watashi no tokei = my watch
- anata no hon = your book

It connects an item with its owner, origin or language:
- Igirisu no kōto = an English coat (a coat of/from England)
- Doitsu-go no hon = a German (language) book

5. Nihon-go de nan desu ka What is it in Japanese?
A very useful phrase to learn when wanting to improve your Japanese vocabulary. Also, if you dont understand much Japanese you can always say:
- Eigo de nan desu ka = What is it in English?

If you want to specify an object, place it in front of the sentence followed by wa. For example:
- Book wa nihon-go de nan desu ka = What is book in Japanese? (As for book, what is it in Japanese)
- Tokei wa eigo de nan desu ka = What is tokei in English?

--------------------------------------------

LESSON 4 PRACTISE - click me!

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 21 2005, 11:11 AM
TSjhcj
post Dec 2 2005, 03:18 PM

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QUOTE(320cbr @ Dec 2 2005, 02:16 PM)
hey nice jhcj thumbup.gif
but if you guys seriously want to learn japanese u should go take classes
private classes where they teach u one by one is by far the best smile.gif, easier & faster for u to learn
trust me, u won't learn perfect japanese through only books

though i heard japanese classes in KL are veri expensive
they could easily go RM1000+ for i think half a semester?
so you could save up some time and money if u learnt the basic already
so good job

and if u do take japanese classes, i suggest u to learn how to write aswell, coz it totally worth it
my teacher say most malay don't learn kanji
chinese got no prob they are used to chinese characters
one note for chinese who think they can read japanese thru kanji is that not only the pronounciations are different but some kanji are also have different meaning
for example 'doctor' in chinese is 医生, in japanese it is 医者
*
I'm not saying this is the best way to learn Japanese. Heck, I'd love to pick up Kanji (I can already recognise hiragana, working on Katakana now), but these lessons should at least get me speaking japanese decently after a while. Anyways, thanks for the feedback. smile.gif

QUOTE(320cbr @ Dec 2 2005, 02:24 PM)
in my opinion asian should have no problems pronouncing in japanese
those westeners are the only ones havin problem - those wapanese tongue.gif

and btw jhjc i think u should write them in full spellings 'desu'
*
I thought I was? O_o'''

QUOTE(ellimist @ Dec 2 2005, 02:50 PM)
If you guys are serious AND have the money (and time maybe) then take classes.But I don't have tat kinda money,so learnin here should give me erm..basic speech abilities,lol
*
Yeah, that's what these lessons are about - basic speech abilities lol.
TSjhcj
post Dec 2 2005, 03:35 PM

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Found the term used for "malay" as in "malay language". It SHOULD be correct, I think.

I hope.

sweat.gif

Here's what I found:
マレーシア = marēshia = malaysia
マレイ (n,adj) = marei = malay

Edited lesson 4's post to reflect this find. If I'm wrong, please PM me and let me know so that i can make the necessary corrections! tongue.gif

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 2 2005, 03:37 PM
e-jump
post Dec 2 2005, 03:37 PM

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i w a t c h t o o m u c h a n i m e >_<
its amazing that i can roughly understand the dialogues w/o seeing the actual TL ..
yey...

so kids, watch anime back to back for a day, u sure can cath up fast
laugh.gif

u guys win several internets for these stuffs
user posted image

320cbr
post Dec 2 2005, 04:13 PM

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wat i meant was write it in normal ro-maji
'enpitsu' not enpits(u) tongue.gif

QUOTE(jhcj @ Dec 2 2005, 03:35 PM)
Found the term used for "malay" as in "malay language". It SHOULD be correct, I think.

I hope.

sweat.gif

Here's what I found:
マレーシア = marēshia = malaysia
マレイ (n,adj) = marei = malay

Edited lesson 4's post to reflect this find. If I'm wrong, please PM me and let me know so that i can make the necessary corrections! tongue.gif
*
i think it is マレー not マレイ
as in マレー語 mareego, malay language
and malaysian is マレー人 (mare-jin)

and maybe u want to write the example dailogues together with kana too brows.gif

This post has been edited by 320cbr: Dec 2 2005, 04:13 PM
320cbr
post Dec 2 2005, 04:22 PM

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oh note that the topic marker particle, 'wa'
is written as は(ha)
日本人です。
watashi wa nihon jin desu

and more on watashi
watakushi or watashi (same kanji : 私) is polite
unpolite one for male is boku
while female use atashi
i think the least polite is ore
TSjhcj
post Dec 2 2005, 04:28 PM

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QUOTE(320cbr @ Dec 2 2005, 04:13 PM)
wat i meant was write it in normal ro-maji
'enpitsu' not enpits(u) tongue.gif
i think it is マレー not マレイ
as in マレー語 mareego, malay language
and malaysian is マレー人 (mare-jin)

and maybe u want to write the example dailogues together with kana too brows.gif
*
Regarding the romanji, I write like that in the "Vocabulary" section to give the readers a feel of how to pronounce those words. If you notice, I take away the brackets in the "Conversation" section.

I'll check with my gf's Japanese friends regarding the pronounciation and written form of Malaysia and Malay. For now, I'd say both yours and mine sound plausible. laugh.gif

QUOTE(320cbr @ Dec 2 2005, 04:22 PM)
oh note that the topic marker particle, 'wa'
is written as は(ha)
日本人です。
watashi wa nihon jin desu

and more on watashi
watakushi or watashi (same kanji : 私) is polite
unpolite one for male is boku
while female use atashi
i think the least polite is ore
*
Thanks for the extra feedback! Yeah, i do know that the particle 'wa' is written as は. Like I said, I didnt want to include any hiragana/katana/kanji so as to make these lessons easy to understand for others. Perhaps you can contribute these parts as feedback? I know I'd love that! Thanks again! thumbup.gif
oe_kintaro
post Dec 2 2005, 04:34 PM

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QUOTE(320cbr @ Dec 2 2005, 04:13 PM)
wat i meant was write it in normal ro-maji
'enpitsu' not enpits(u) tongue.gif
i think it is マレー not マレイ
as in マレー語 mareego, malay language
and malaysian is マレー人 (mare-jin)

and maybe u want to write the example dailogues together with kana too brows.gif
*
あれは違うと思います。

「malaysian」 は マレーシア人
「malay」はマレー人



ellimist
post Dec 2 2005, 04:34 PM

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QUOTE(jhcj @ Dec 2 2005, 04:28 PM)
I'll check with my gf's Japanese friends
*
o.O what Japanese frens?
320cbr
post Dec 2 2005, 04:39 PM

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er yea they're the same tongue.gif
but when he said malay he meant malay language
TSjhcj
post Dec 2 2005, 04:41 PM

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QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Dec 2 2005, 04:34 PM)
あれは違うと思います。

「malaysian」 は マレーシア人
「malay」はマレー人
*
HOLY CRAP. I cant read kanji! T_T Although i can make out what the hiragana means. sweat.gif

Translate pls! tongue.gif

QUOTE(ellimist @ Dec 2 2005, 04:34 PM)
o.O what Japanese frens?
*
Er...she's in the states remember? There are japanese students there as well you know. >_>
oe_kintaro
post Dec 2 2005, 04:43 PM

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QUOTE(jhcj @ Dec 2 2005, 04:41 PM)
HOLY CRAP. I cant read kanji! T_T Although i can make out what the hiragana means. sweat.gif

*
I wrote:
"I think that's wrong.
malaysian is mare-shia jin
malay is mare-jin"
TSjhcj
post Dec 2 2005, 04:48 PM

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QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Dec 2 2005, 04:43 PM)
I wrote:
"I think that's wrong.
malaysian is mare-shia jin
malay is mare-jin"
*
Ah I see, well I wrote marēshia-jin with referrence to malaysians, not malays. smile.gif

The one that I'm not sure of now is malay language, as in bahasa melayu. Is it marē-go (マレー語) or marei-go (マレイ語)?

Oh crap, time to head home. Continued tomorrow! Try to keep spam to a minimum ok? tongue.gif

Ja mata ashita!

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 2 2005, 04:49 PM
oe_kintaro
post Dec 2 2005, 04:54 PM

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QUOTE(jhcj @ Dec 2 2005, 04:48 PM)
Ah I see, well I wrote marēshia-jin with referrence to malaysians, not malays. smile.gif

The one that I'm not sure of now is malay language, as in bahasa melayu. Is it marē-go (マレー語) or marei-go (マレイ語)?

Oh crap, time to head home. Continued tomorrow! Try to keep spam to a minimum ok? tongue.gif

Ja mata ashita!
*
in this case when katakana is used, the chouon (長音) or long sound is represented by the -


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post Dec 2 2005, 09:22 PM

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I asked this question before but nobody is helping me in kpt sad.gif

How to use the word benkyo ... ? Is it study? books? or ?

Thanks smile.gif

And another phrase ... Something sounds like go ki gen yo ... Does it mean good day or have a nice day?

This post has been edited by Geminist: Dec 2 2005, 09:23 PM
oe_kintaro
post Dec 2 2005, 09:35 PM

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QUOTE(Geminist @ Dec 2 2005, 09:22 PM)
I asked this question before but nobody is helping me in kpt sad.gif

How to use the word benkyo ... ? Is it study? books? or ?

Thanks smile.gif

And another phrase ... Something sounds like go ki gen yo ... Does it mean good day or have a nice day?
*
benkyou <-- note the long sound
the kanji is 勉強 <---- for those of you who are chinese-educated who think they can ace the kanji in a japanese exam without preparation....this is probably the first kanji that you learn that will make you realise that it is not as easy as you think.... tongue.gif *

benkyou is a noun denoting study

the verbal form is benkyou suru ( 勉強する), or, to study. This is considered a group III verb IIRC

*apparently the chinese meaning of the kanji is to struggle or something like that


Joseph Hahn
post Dec 2 2005, 09:49 PM

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QUOTE(Geminist @ Dec 2 2005, 09:22 PM)
I asked this question before but nobody is helping me in kpt sad.gif

How to use the word benkyo ... ? Is it study? books? or ?

Thanks smile.gif

And another phrase ... Something sounds like go ki gen yo ... Does it mean good day or have a nice day?
*
benkyo is study .. books is hon .. i think tongue.gif

gokigenyo .. obviously you got this from marimite laugh.gif

i think it's just a formal (and feminine ?) way of saying good day to someone you respect .. but i think it can mean both good day and have a nice day ..
Dark Steno
post Dec 2 2005, 10:50 PM

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QUOTE(Joseph Hahn @ Dec 2 2005, 09:49 PM)
benkyo is study .. books is hon .. i think tongue.gif

gokigenyo .. obviously you got this from marimite laugh.gif

i think it's just a formal (and feminine ?) way of saying good day to someone you respect .. but i think it can mean both good day and have a nice day ..
*
Formal way. Usually used by upperclass person.
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post Dec 2 2005, 11:49 PM

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QUOTE(jhcj @ Dec 2 2005, 05:48 PM)
Ah I see, well I wrote marēshia-jin with referrence to malaysians, not malays. smile.gif

The one that I'm not sure of now is malay language, as in bahasa melayu. Is it marē-go (マレー語) or marei-go (マレイ語)?

Oh crap, time to head home. Continued tomorrow! Try to keep spam to a minimum ok? tongue.gif

Ja mata ashita!
*
Malaysian (マレーシア人)
Malay (マレー人)
Malay language (マレー語)

sometimes japanese uses (マレイ) or (マレィ) instead of (マレー)..
it's still the same anyway..
320cbr
post Dec 2 2005, 11:55 PM

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I hav question smile.gif
in wat situation do u use 勉強する?
coz usually I see 勉強をします
so they dont use を with する?
TSjhcj
post Dec 3 2005, 01:40 AM

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QUOTE(aburex @ Dec 2 2005, 11:49 PM)
Malaysian (マレーシア人)
Malay (マレー人)
Malay language (マレー語)

sometimes japanese uses (マレイ) or (マレィ) instead of (マレー)..
it's still the same anyway..
*
A so desu ka. Well then, I'll just leave my explanation intact then, since both are correct. smile.gif

QUOTE(320cbr @ Dec 2 2005, 11:55 PM)
I hav question smile.gif
in wat situation do u use  勉強する?
coz usually I see 勉強をします
so they dont use を with する?
*
勉強する = benkyō suru
勉強をします = benkyō o shimasu
There, translated for the benefit of everyone else. Hiragana ftw! laugh.gif

Err...all I know is that を is an object particle, and it marks the object of the sentence. It is pronounced as o when written after the object.

E.g. sushi o tabemashita = i ate sushi

Is the word benkyō (勉強) an object? unsure.gif

p/s: This sure is getting complicated! Casual readers, hang in there! tongue.gif

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 3 2005, 01:42 AM
Dark Steno
post Dec 3 2005, 02:03 AM

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QUOTE(jhcj @ Dec 3 2005, 01:40 AM)
A so desu ka.
*
In Germans, the phrase Ach so? has same usage as Sou desu ka? in Japanese. tongue.gif

Ach so desu ka... laugh.gif
320cbr
post Dec 3 2005, 02:20 AM

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yea, benkyou(勉強) is a noun,
same thing as sentaku wo shimashita (洗濯をしました。)

so i'm guessing with the wo and shimasu it sounds more 'complete'? huh.gif
勉強する is when u say it to like, friends?
is this right? smile.gif

This post has been edited by 320cbr: Dec 3 2005, 02:22 AM
Geminist
post Dec 3 2005, 04:18 AM

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Oh ... Thanks .... Really grateful for all the guidance ...

*and yea, the phrase is from marimate ... (you caught me) laugh.gif

1) So to say I'm studying now (meaning something like I'm reading a book now) ... Is it "Ima benkyo desu" ... Correct?

2) How about "I am studying in xxxxx now" ...? How do you say that?

3) By the way, tabe is eat right ... ? How do I say "Let's go eat now guys" ... ? (Can I say it as "Ima iso tabe o, mina!"

4) Is it okay if I ask for someone's name this way? "Anata no namai wa ...?" (<-is it formal or informal?)

Thanks again for you guys help notworthy.gif

*Forgive me if my typing sounds silly ... haha ...
xxboxx
post Dec 3 2005, 07:29 AM

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from jhcj lesson4, asking name is "O-namae wa?". japanese has a tendency to not use the word "anata" or "watashi" and expect the listener to understand it. so in this case the"O" already represent as "anata"

watashi wa nihongo ga mada jo_te ja_arimasen. notworthy.gif
ja_mata.

This post has been edited by xxboxx: Dec 3 2005, 07:38 AM
ryosuke
post Dec 3 2005, 12:16 PM

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wah..dunno here can learn some japanese.. notworthy.gif can i join?? sweat.gif keep the good work everyone thumbup.gif gan ba teh thumbup.gif
320cbr
post Dec 3 2005, 12:26 PM

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hm, i guess i'll answer this tongue.gif

1) 'I am studying now' should be watashi wa ima benkyou wo shite imasu(私は今勉強をしています。)
I am reading a book would be ima hon wo yonde imasu(今本を読んでいます。)


2) 'i am studying in xxx right now', watashi wa ima XXX ni benkyou wo shite imasu(私は今XXXに勉強をしています。)
hmm i maybe wrong here huh.gif do i use に or で? blush.gif


3) 'let's go eat' would be, tabemashou (食べましょう)
though I'm not really sure when u say minna
wat i came up with :
minna, issho ni tabemashou ka?(みんな、一緒に食べましょうか?)
"everybody, lets go eat together?", sounds different tongue.gif

tongue.gif i guess i need some help here

This post has been edited by 320cbr: Dec 3 2005, 12:27 PM
oe_kintaro
post Dec 3 2005, 01:04 PM

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QUOTE(320cbr @ Dec 3 2005, 12:26 PM)

2) 'i am studying in xxx right now', watashi wa ima XXX ni benkyou wo shite imasu(私は今XXXに勉強をしています。)
hmm i maybe wrong here huh.gif do i use に or で? blush.gif

*
この際は「で」を使ってください。
when you are in a place/location, use 「に」
例:私は今教室にいます。

when you are doing something at a place, use 「で」
例:工場で働いています。

Hikki Kokurabuji
post Dec 3 2005, 01:18 PM

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this thread proves to be helpful biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif *takes notes* thumbup.gif

Zeten
post Dec 3 2005, 02:27 PM

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watashi wa nihongo ga mada jo_te ja_arimasen.

xxboxx.. it should be ' jyou zu ' not jyo te.. smile.gif

320cbr
post Dec 3 2005, 02:59 PM

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QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Dec 3 2005, 01:04 PM)
この際は「で」を使ってください。
when you are in a place/location, use 「に」
例:私は今教室にいます。

when you are doing something at a place, use 「で」
例:工場で働いています。
*
thnx for clearing that up senpai notworthy.gif thumbup.gif

This post has been edited by 320cbr: Dec 3 2005, 03:00 PM
xxboxx
post Dec 3 2005, 04:52 PM

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QUOTE(Zeten @ Dec 3 2005, 02:27 PM)
watashi wa nihongo ga mada jo_te ja_arimasen. 

xxboxx.. it should be ' jyou zu ' not jyo te.. smile.gif
*
i don't know the romanji for it, just shoot only tongue.gif
btw, i got it from online dictionary, it's either jo_shu, jo_te, jo_zu.
and seem jo_te sounds at most similiar. but it didn't got "jyou zu" like you said?

English>Romanji>English Dictionary
very good for beginner to find some words. thumbup.gif
TSjhcj
post Dec 3 2005, 07:53 PM

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oe_kintaro, if it's possible, could you type out the romanji for all your sentences as well? It would be a BIG help to those who cant read kanji, like me for instance. tongue.gif
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post Dec 3 2005, 10:06 PM

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hey, i think it would be much fun, and easier to memorize if there's some test for each lesson. so everyone that learning it could test if they remember it or not.

here's some test from lesson 3 that i make up:

1. how to greets good morning politely?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


2. what is "ja mata ne"?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


3. what do you say when someone say "Dzo yorosh(i)ku" to you?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


4. how do you say " no, i'm sorry"?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


5. you thought the girl standing there is your friend, reiko. how do you ask her?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


6. continuing from no.5, how does reiko respond to you?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


some sifu's here who already good with nihongo could also put some test for us to try out. thumbup.gif
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post Dec 3 2005, 10:08 PM

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haha cool xxboxx,plus ur makin use of those spoiler tags tongue.gif

xxboxx
post Dec 3 2005, 11:48 PM

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haha, well i'm quickly get bored if only reading the same thing over and over again. by trying to answer question makes it more interesting. and the spoiler tag is really a cool function for question-answer type. biggrin.gif
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post Dec 4 2005, 07:22 AM

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QUOTE(jhcj @ Dec 3 2005, 07:53 PM)
oe_kintaro, if it's possible, could you type out the romanji for all your sentences as well? It would be a BIG help to those who cant read kanji, like me for instance. tongue.gif
*
I will try, but no guarantees wink.gif
besides, there are many ways to read unknown kanji on a PC
http://www.rikai.com is one of them.

my advice to those aspiring to learn a decent amount of japanese:
LOSE THE ROMAJI ASAP.... they don't give you a real feel for the words and there's too much ambiguity when it is used, as firstly, many japanese words already sound the same, and secondly, romanizing the words makes it worse: e.g., when you type "genin", do you really mean げにん「下人」(low-ranked person) ?or げんいん「原因」?(cause/source)?
Furthermore, everyone here seems to be using different romanization systems, which further adds to the confusion: e.g., jo and jyo are actually the same thing. jou and j and jo- (conventions for writing long sound) also add to the confusion.

If you take formal classes, most teachers expect you to lose the romaji within the first 2-3 weeks anyway...

Besides, has anyone here tried to sing japanese karaoke using romaji? I can tell you it's a real b*tch to keep up with the words, and your phrasing will go out of sync sweat.gif

TSjhcj
post Dec 4 2005, 09:05 AM

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QUOTE(xxboxx @ Dec 3 2005, 10:06 PM)
hey, i think it would be much fun, and easier to memorize if there's some test for each lesson. so everyone that learning it could test if they remember it or not.

here's some test from lesson 3 that i make up:

*
Excellent use of the spoiler tags!! Why didnt I think of that sooner! tongue.gif

QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Dec 4 2005, 07:22 AM)
I will try, but no guarantees wink.gif
besides, there are many ways to read unknown kanji on a PC
http://www.rikai.com is one of them.

my advice to those aspiring to learn a decent amount of japanese:
LOSE THE ROMAJI ASAP.... they don't give you a real feel for the words and there's too much ambiguity when it is used, as firstly, many japanese words already sound the same, and secondly, romanizing the words makes it worse: e.g., when you type "genin", do you really mean げにん「下人」(low-ranked person) ?or げんいん「原因」?(cause/source)?
Furthermore, everyone here seems to be using different romanization systems, which further adds to the confusion: e.g., jo and jyo are actually the same thing. jou and j and jo- (conventions for writing long sound) also add to the confusion.

If you take formal classes, most teachers expect you to lose the romaji within the first 2-3 weeks anyway...

Besides, has anyone here tried to sing japanese karaoke using romaji? I can tell you it's a real b*tch to keep up with the words, and your phrasing will go out of sync sweat.gif
*
Well, I understand that to get far when learning Japanese, you should lose the romanji, but I'm sure many here are just casual readers who are just taking this lightly. Personally, I do wish to learn kanji, but in good time. But I gotta start somewhere right? And I guess if you put romanji together with the kanji that you type, that'll help me learn just as fast, no? Rather than me cross-referencing with a Japanese kanji dictionary every other word cause I dont know how to read chinese characters.

And as for the different romanization systems, well, I cant help it if that happens. But I'll use the system that I lined out in the first post e.g. using the micron (-) symbol above the vowel to signify long vowel sounds. In the case of your example (genin), using the system I outlined in the first post, げにん「下人」would be written as genin while げんいん「原因」 would be written as gen'in. tongue.gif

Thanks for your feedback! smile.gif

[edit] Added several useful links to the first post. Also added links to practises after end of each lesson (lesson 3 onwards).

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 4 2005, 10:29 AM
TSjhcj
post Dec 4 2005, 09:50 AM

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Adapted from xxboxx's post,
LESSON 3 - Practise
1. How do you greet someone first thing in the morning?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


2. How do you greet someone in the evening?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


3. When do you use the greeting "Konnichiwa"?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


4. After talking to a friend, both of you decide to head back home. Your friend says "Ja mata ne!" (See you!). How do you respond by saying "See you tomorrow!" in Japanese?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


5. How do you say "No, I'm sorry" in Japanese?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


6. You see a girl standing alone. You think she's your friend Reiko, but you have no idea how she looks like. How do you approach to ask her? (English: Excuse me, are you Reiko?)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


7. From question 6, assuming you are Reiko, how do you respond? (English: Yes, that's right)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


8. You are out with Reiko, and you bump into another friend. How do you introduce Reiko to your friend? (English: This person is Reiko)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


9. Translate this sentence into English: Hajimemashite, watashi wa Kanae desu. Dozō yoroshiku!
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


10. Decide whether the suffix -san should be used in the sentences below.
a. Hajimemashite, An Jenkinsu ____ desu.
b. Kochira wa Yamaguchi Reiko ____ desu.
c. Kochira wa Suzuki _____ desu ka.
d. Sumimasen, Yamaguchi _____ desu ka.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 4 2005, 10:33 AM
TSjhcj
post Dec 4 2005, 10:12 AM

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LESSON 4 - Practise
1. How would you say these phrases in Japanese?
a. What is 'hat' in Japanese?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


b. Pardon me for interrupting (when entering a room).
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


c. I am Malaysian.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


d. This is a Japanese language book.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


2. Translate this into English: Anata wa Igirisu kara desu ka.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


3. You are talking to a Malaysian-born Japanese, Sakura. Another friend Kanae then says to you "Ano, Sakura-san wa Nihon kara desu ka". What did she say? How do you respond?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 4 2005, 10:16 AM
xxboxx
post Dec 4 2005, 10:27 AM

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QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Dec 4 2005, 07:22 AM)
I will try, but no guarantees wink.gif
besides, there are many ways to read unknown kanji on a PC
http://www.rikai.com is one of them.

my advice to those aspiring to learn a decent amount of japanese:
LOSE THE ROMAJI ASAP.... they don't give you a real feel for the words and there's too much ambiguity when it is used, as firstly, many japanese words already sound the same, and secondly, romanizing the words makes it worse: e.g.,  when you type "genin", do you really mean げにん「下人」(low-ranked person) ?or げんいん「原因」?(cause/source)?
Furthermore, everyone here seems to be using different romanization systems, which further adds to the confusion: e.g., jo and jyo are actually the same thing. jou and j and jo- (conventions for writing long sound) also add to the confusion.

If you take formal classes, most teachers expect you to lose the romaji within the first 2-3 weeks anyway...

Besides, has anyone here tried to sing japanese karaoke using romaji? I can tell you it's a real b*tch to keep up with the words, and your phrasing will go out of sync  sweat.gif
*
it's already challenging to learn the word, but to know the kanji letter as well? sweat.gif
how many letter are there to learn kanji/kana? beside, to know the letter you should also know how to write them. and tutorial how to write is not easy, you should know which line to draw first, and etc.
i think better follow how a child was taught. first parents teach how to speak, then later on only learn how to write when entering kindergarten.

QUOTE(jhcj @ Dec 4 2005, 09:50 AM)

8. You are out with Reiko, and you bump into another friend. How do you introduce Reiko to your friend? (This person is Reiko)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


*
i fail on the no.8 test. blush.gif need to memorize better tongue.gif
320cbr
post Dec 4 2005, 12:19 PM

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QUOTE(xxboxx @ Dec 4 2005, 10:27 AM)
it's already challenging to learn the word, but to know the kanji letter as well? sweat.gif
how many letter are there to learn kanji/kana? beside, to know the letter you should also know how to write them. and tutorial how to write is not easy, you should know which line to draw first, and etc.
*
ya u hav to know the strokes order
in this case u need someone to teach u
u can also ask some of your chinese friends laugh.gif
i know my friends helped me quite a lot wink.gif
oe_kintaro
post Dec 4 2005, 03:43 PM

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QUOTE(320cbr @ Dec 4 2005, 12:19 PM)
ya u hav to know the strokes order
in this case u need someone to teach u
u can also ask some of your chinese friends laugh.gif
i know my friends helped me quite a lot wink.gif
*
stroke order is important if you want to take the kanji test (aka the kanji kentei or nihon kanji nouryoku kentei shiken)

In such a case, don't put too much faith in your chinese friends' ability to write kanji...the stroke order, can be quite different at times and there are subtle differences in stroke length sweat.gif

otherwise, just remembering what a kanji looks like (and sounds) is good enough for the normal nouryoku shiken (but naturally, knowing how to write it is one way sweat.gif )

also, some of my chinese-ed friends tell me that some of younger generation are growing up using only jian ti (simplified PRC style characters) without knowing how to write or read fan ti (complicated/traditional taiwan style characters). I dnno how true this is, but if you had a friend like this it probably won't be of much help either

This post has been edited by oe_kintaro: Dec 4 2005, 03:49 PM
oe_kintaro
post Dec 4 2005, 04:13 PM

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QUOTE(xxboxx @ Dec 4 2005, 10:27 AM)
it's already challenging to learn the word, but to know the kanji letter as well?
tell me about. I'm still facing the same problem too. A common weakness of the malaysian style of japanese instruction is an over reliance on students' prior knowledge of written mandarin. This puts people like me (I don't know mandarin) at a significant disadvantage.
it just means we have to work harder.

QUOTE
sweat.gif
how many letter are there to learn kanji/kana?


kana: 50 x 2 IINM.
kanji: up to 2000 if you are aiming for lvl 1 (pre-university level)

correction: passing level 1 of the nouryoku shiken means having a proficiency equivalent to a high school graduate

QUOTE
beside, to know the letter you should also know how to write them. and tutorial how to write is not easy, you should know which line to draw first, and etc.
i think better follow how a child was taught. first parents teach how to speak, then later on only learn how to write when entering kindergarten.
unlike children, we already know our ABCs and how to write english/bahasa. there is a tendency to use that as a reference in learning japanese. unfortunately it too easily becomes a crutch that is debilitating to one's further progress. that is why teachers of the language eschew the usage of romaji.

* do note that my POV is probably only valid for those who are not casual learners. I do acknowledge that some readers aren't really serious about this anyway, so some of the finer points may not apply.

This post has been edited by oe_kintaro: Dec 4 2005, 04:19 PM
xxboxx
post Dec 4 2005, 09:59 PM

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QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Dec 4 2005, 04:13 PM)
tell me about. I'm still facing the same problem too. A common weakness of the malaysian style of japanese instruction is an over reliance on students' prior knowledge of written mandarin. This puts people like me (I don't know mandarin) at a significant disadvantage. it just means we have to work harder.
not just you, me too.

QUOTE
kana: 50 x 2 IINM.
kanji: up to 2000 if you are aiming for lvl 1 (pre-university level)

correction: passing level 1 of the nouryoku shiken means having a proficiency equivalent to a high school graduate
so for kana total is 100 letter? that's still not too bad i guess. would learning kana be sufficient?

QUOTE
unlike children, we already know our ABCs and how to write english/bahasa. there is a tendency to use that as a reference in learning japanese. unfortunately it too easily becomes a crutch that is debilitating to one's further progress. that is why teachers of the language eschew the usage of romaji.
*

yup, because we have been accustomed to ABC thats why we tend to rely on it for learning japanese. but i think japanese, like any other language for that matter, are better to learn with hearing and spoken. even if you memorize the romanji, but when you say it if the sound doesn't sound like how it was supposed to, also not good. but romanji are still good for extra learning process. so keep on watching those anime to learn how the words was pronounced laugh.gif

btw, anyone can recommend me anime that's good to watch for learning nihongo? anime which has simple words and slowly spoken would be nice.
Zeten
post Dec 4 2005, 10:24 PM

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i would suggest reading raw manga instead of anime..
this is the website that i used to check on meaning instead of my jap dictionary

http://www.geocities.co.jp/HeartLand/8291/dic10417.htm
oe_kintaro
post Dec 4 2005, 10:28 PM

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QUOTE(xxboxx @ Dec 4 2005, 09:59 PM)

so for kana total is 100 letter? that's still not too bad i guess. would learning kana be sufficient?
Not letter, but syllabary. Each character represents a distinct sound, unlike letters of the alphabet which need to be combined to produce something pronounceable. There are about 50 basic sounds. You need to learn twice: once in hiragana, once in katakana. However, just using hiragana or katakana only is not really encouraged, unless you want the reader to think you are a kindergartener tongue.gif


QUOTE
btw, anyone can recommend me anime that's good to watch for learning nihongo? anime which has simple words and slowly spoken would be nice.
my neighbour totoro.
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post Dec 5 2005, 12:16 AM

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QUOTE(320cbr @ Dec 3 2005, 12:26 PM)
hm, i guess i'll answer this tongue.gif

1) 'I am studying now' should be watashi wa ima benkyou wo shite imasu(私は今勉強をしています。)
I am reading a book would be ima hon wo yonde imasu(今本を読んでいます。)
2) 'i am studying in xxx right now', watashi wa ima XXX ni benkyou wo shite imasu(私は今XXXに勉強をしています。)
hmm i maybe wrong here huh.gif do i use に or で? blush.gif
3) 'let's go eat' would be, tabemashou (食べましょう)
though I'm not really sure when u say minna
wat i came up with :
minna, issho ni tabemashou ka?(みんな、一緒に食べましょうか?)
"everybody, lets go eat together?", sounds different tongue.gif

tongue.gif i guess i need some help here
*
1) What does the wo shite imasu means ?

2) Hmm, how do you say University in Japanese?

QUOTE
3. You are talking to a Malaysian-born Japanese, Sakura. Another friend Kanae then says to you "Ano, Sakura-san wa Nihon kara desu ka". What did she say? How do you respond?


3) Does the kara here means from ?

Thank you very much smile.gif
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post Dec 5 2005, 12:44 AM

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QUOTE(Geminist @ Dec 5 2005, 12:16 AM)
1) What does the wo shite imasu means ?

2) Hmm, how do you say University in Japanese?
3) Does the kara here means from ?

Thank you very much smile.gif
*
1) - (I dont know)
2) Daigaku. Todai means Tokyo Daigaku or Tokyo University.
3) Yes.
320cbr
post Dec 5 2005, 02:39 AM

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shite imasu in english is similar to wat u have 'continous tense' note that the sentence got ima(now).
例:私は今勉強をしています。
ex. I am now studying.

the root word for shite imasu is suru
suru means 'to do'
so benkyou suru 「勉強する」 literally means, to do study

my japanese quite limited so...
think oe_kintaro can explain more tongue.gif
aburex
post Dec 5 2005, 12:59 PM

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QUOTE(Zeten @ Dec 4 2005, 11:24 PM)
i would suggest reading raw manga instead of anime..
this is the website that i used to check on meaning instead of my jap dictionary

http://www.geocities.co.jp/HeartLand/8291/dic10417.htm
*
you can read raw manga for kanji/writing lesson and watch anime for pronounciation/hearing lesson..
anime from manga usually uses almost the same dialogue in the manga so it's like you got the anime script..
maybe useful for learning japanese?
Darqfyre
post Dec 5 2005, 01:54 PM

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QUOTE(aburex @ Dec 5 2005, 12:59 PM)
you can read raw manga for kanji/writing lesson and watch anime for pronounciation/hearing lesson..
anime from manga usually uses almost the same dialogue in the manga so it's like you got the anime script..
maybe useful for learning japanese?
*
I thought I'd throw my two cents on that. I'm interested in picking up Japanese as well, but before I do that I need to learn my mandarin first (only able to speak albeit broken). What anime did was just increase my vocabulary level, my grammar is still stuck. You really need some other sources in order to properly learn it.
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post Dec 5 2005, 05:16 PM

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sorry...noob question here...
wat does it mean by '' dor mo '' ??? when i play gemes, after i buy certain item, they said '' dor mo '' so i tot is thanks...

but when i watch j-drama, i heard '' dor mo '' again, but the subtitiles written ''hello/hi'' so actually wat does it mean??? arigato notworthy.gif
320cbr
post Dec 5 2005, 05:27 PM

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I think it is doumo 「どうも」?
the complete form is doumo arigatou gozaimasu
but ppl usually just say doumo

I'm not sure about hi/hello though
I guess you should see the situation?
Are the ppl just bumped into each other and say hi/hello or wat?
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post Dec 5 2005, 05:35 PM

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QUOTE(Darqfyre @ Dec 5 2005, 01:54 PM)
I thought I'd throw my two cents on that. I'm interested in picking up Japanese as well, but before I do that I need to learn my mandarin first (only able to speak albeit broken). What anime did was just increase my vocabulary level, my grammar is still stuck. You really need some other sources in order to properly learn it.
*
No, you don't really need mandarin to pick up japanese. It does help in some ways, but is not a prerequisite.
Kanji is not a big worry at least until JLPT level 2 . For level 4 and 3, you could probably breeze through it with just a little bit kanji. It only gets really tough suddenly when you reach level 2
Generally, anything that's spoken japanese will offer a little something to a mindful and diligent language student. In the case of anime, start with children's anime like "my neighbour totoro" or anime with realistic everyday drama or settings, like Ocean Waves (I can hear the sea).
Ghost in the Shell or Gundam may be more interesting to watch, but at the beginners' level it won't do much for your everyday practical-use japanese sweat.gif

Darqfyre
post Dec 5 2005, 05:55 PM

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QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Dec 5 2005, 05:35 PM)
No, you don't really need mandarin to pick up japanese. It does help in some ways, but is not a prerequisite.
Kanji is not a big worry at least until JLPT level 2 . For level 4 and 3, you could probably breeze through it with just a little bit kanji. It only gets really tough suddenly when you reach level 2
While I agree your post but I am an illiterate Chinese hence my wanting to learn to write and speak mandarin. sweat.gif


ryosuke
post Dec 5 2005, 06:05 PM

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QUOTE(320cbr @ Dec 5 2005, 05:27 PM)
I think it is doumo 「どうも」?
the complete form is doumo arigatou gozaimasu
but ppl usually just say doumo

I'm not sure about hi/hello though
I guess you should see the situation?
Are the ppl just bumped into each other and say hi/hello or wat?
*
yaya i think is '' doumo '' sweat.gif sorry nvr learn jap b4 but very interested in jap..hehe tongue.gif

the situation is like a man inside a room, then his friend went in, and this man said '' doumo'' .. blush.gif so any senpai can help me ah?? notworthy.gif
320cbr
post Dec 5 2005, 06:39 PM

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hm not sure abt that, maybe it is something to do with the story?
the closest I can think is 'douzo' which means 'sila' laugh.gif

btw, I personally think listening to dorama works better than anime
anime voice acting sounds over-acted at times sweat.gif
plus in dorama u can listen how they converse in real life
u'll notice the difference compared to anime
Darqfyre
post Dec 5 2005, 06:43 PM

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QUOTE(320cbr @ Dec 5 2005, 06:39 PM)
hm not sure abt that, maybe it is something to do with the story?
the closest I can think is 'douzo' which means 'sila' laugh.gif

btw, I personally think listening to dorama works better than anime
anime voice acting sounds over-acted at times sweat.gif
plus in dorama u can listen how they converse in real life
u'll notice the difference compared to anime
*
And listen to the dreaded speech mumbling... tongue.gif
ruffstuff
post Dec 5 2005, 08:20 PM

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QUOTE(Zeten @ Dec 4 2005, 10:24 PM)
i would suggest reading raw manga instead of anime..
this is the website that i used to check on meaning instead of my jap dictionary

http://www.geocities.co.jp/HeartLand/8291/dic10417.htm
*
For some reason, I can't view the japanese character on this site. But I can view all japanese character written here in this message board. Anyon know what is the problem?
Zeten
post Dec 5 2005, 08:22 PM

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QUOTE(aburex @ Dec 5 2005, 12:59 PM)
you can read raw manga for kanji/writing lesson and watch anime for pronounciation/hearing lesson..
anime from manga usually uses almost the same dialogue in the manga so it's like you got the anime script..
maybe useful for learning japanese?
*
what i meant is.. at least u can see the words and try to pronouce and figiure it out slowly.. in anime, ure just going to repeat the verse over again and again just to get the right word.. i dont think u can listen and figure out the words so precise and clear..

@ruffstuff : go to the View Tab, go to Encoding and find Japanese

This post has been edited by Zeten: Dec 5 2005, 08:24 PM
Dark Steno
post Dec 5 2005, 09:27 PM

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QUOTE(Zeten @ Dec 5 2005, 08:22 PM)
what i meant is.. at least u can see the words and try to pronouce and figiure it out  slowly.. in anime, ure just going to repeat the verse over again and again just to get the right word.. i dont think u can listen and figure out the words so precise and clear..
*
...unless if you took Japanese courses and live/studying in Japan like aburex does.
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post Dec 5 2005, 11:31 PM

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QUOTE(ryosuke @ Dec 5 2005, 06:05 PM)
yaya i think is '' doumo ''  sweat.gif  sorry nvr learn jap b4 but very interested in jap..hehe  tongue.gif

the situation is like a man inside a room, then his friend went in, and this man said '' doumo'' .. blush.gif  so any senpai can help me ah??  notworthy.gif
*
if not mistaken it can be used for greetings, instead of saying ohaiyo-gozaimasu or konichiwa you can say informally doumo. i think lar, correct me if i'm wrong.

QUOTE(320cbr @ Dec 5 2005, 06:39 PM)
btw, I personally think listening to dorama works better than anime
anime voice acting sounds over-acted at times sweat.gif
plus in dorama u can listen how they converse in real life
u'll notice the difference compared to anime
*
ya, dorama they talk more naturally, with the politeness and all. if anime they tend to talk very fast. sweat.gif
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post Dec 6 2005, 12:03 AM

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QUOTE(xxboxx @ Dec 5 2005, 11:31 PM)
if not mistaken it can be used for greetings, instead of saying ohaiyo-gozaimasu or konichiwa you can say informally doumo. i think lar, correct me if i'm wrong.
*
Literally speaking, in Malay we use, "Silakan" for the meaning of domo. So, when someone comes in, we usually use "Sila masuk (or anything with Sila)" for formal way. Although we usually use, "Ha! Apahal?". laugh.gif
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post Dec 6 2005, 06:51 AM

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QUOTE(Dark Steno @ Dec 6 2005, 12:03 AM)
Literally speaking, in Malay we use, "Silakan" for the meaning of domo. So, when someone comes in, we usually use "Sila masuk (or anything with Sila)" for formal way. Although we usually use, "Ha! Apahal?". laugh.gif
*
it's not only for when someone walks in the room/house right? if meeting a friend anywhere also can use domo?
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post Dec 6 2005, 10:45 AM

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QUOTE(xxboxx @ Dec 6 2005, 06:51 AM)
it's not only for when someone walks in the room/house right? if meeting a friend anywhere also can use domo?
*
If you want to give a way to a person, you can use domo too. Like in bus or train as if there's an appropriate person to have a seat.
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post Dec 6 2005, 10:46 AM

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This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 6 2005, 11:07 AM
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post Dec 6 2005, 11:24 AM

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LESSON 5: O-shigoto wa nan desu ka = What is your occupation?

Introduction
In this lesson, a common sentence pattern is introduced - a 'person/item' is 'something'. For example:
- An-san wa Igirisujin desu = Anne is English.
- Kore wa tokei desu = This is a watch.

The pattern in Japanese is: noun wa noun desu.

Vocabulary list
Occupations
shigoto = work
sensei = teacher
kaisha-in = company worker/employee
gakusei = student
seito = pupil
shufu = housewife
isha = doctor
haisha = dentist
ten'in = shop assistant
hisho = secretary

Kazoku Own family
haha = mother
chichi = father
ani = older brother
otōto = younger brother

Interests
shumi = hobby
supōtsu = sports
sakkā = football (soccer)
sukī = ski
gorufu = golf
dokusho = reading
suiei = swimming
dansu = dancing

Counting people
nan-nin = how many people?
hitori = one person, alone
futari = two people
san-nin = three people
yo-nin = four people
nan (sometimes nani) = what?

Useful phrases
mōichido itte kudasai = please say it again
yukkuri itte kudasai = please say it more slowly

Sample conversation
Anne and her fellow classmates have brought in photos of their homestay families and real families to show to the class. Anne is talking about the Yamaguchi family.
Anne: Kore wa Yamaguchi Masaki-san desu. Yamaguchi san wa kaisha-in desu. Shumi wa sukī to gorufu desu.
Tani: (pointing photo) Kore wa donata desu ka.
Anne: Ano, Takeshi-kun desu. Takeshi wa seito desu. Shumi wa suiei desu.
Heidi: Go-kazoku wa zembu de nan-nin desu ka.
Anne: Zembu de yo-nin desu.
Scott: Sumimasen, mōichido itte kudasai. Nan-nin desu ka.
Anne: Yo-nin desu.

Next Tani passes round photos of her own family and holds up one to discuss.
Tani: Kono hito wa haha desu. Haha wa isha desu. Shumi wa dokusho desu. Kono hito wa Henri desu. Henri wa ani desu. Shumi wa sakkā desu.
Han: (points to another photo) Kore mo Henri-san desu ka.
Tani: (blushing) Iie, Henri ja arimasen. Watashi no bōifurendo desu.
Scott: Nani...? Yukkuri itte kudasai.

Extras
to = and
donata = who
go-kazoku = someone else's family
zembu de = altogether
kono hito = this person
mo = also, too
ja arimasen = is not
bōifurendo = boyfriend

Explanations
1. Takeshi wa seito desu Takesi is a (school) pupil
This is an example of the pattern that was introduced in the beginning of this lesson. In the conversation, more ways of using this pattern is encountered i.e. talking about jobs and hobbies. For example:
- Kono hito wa haha desu = This (person) is my mother
- Haha wa isha desu = My mother is a doctor
- Shumi wa dokusho desu = (Her) hobby is reading

From lesson 4, we learnt that wa is used to highlight the word that is the subject. It can sometimes be translated as "as for". For example:
- Shumi wa dokusho desu = As for her hobby, it is reading
- Shigoto wa isha desu = As for her job, she is a doctor

2. Kore wa donata desu ka Who is this?
Donata means who and is a more polite version of the question word dare which also means who. Donata would be used on more formal occasions. In English this phrase might be translated as: Might I ask who this is? Tani is asking about a photo but if the person is present you use kochira instead of kore for this.

3. Kore mo Henri-san desu ka Is this also Henri? (Is this Henri as well?)
Mo means also and is used as follows:
- Tani: Watasi wa gakusei desu (I am a student)
Anne: Watashi mo gakusei desu (I am also a student)

- Satō-sensei wa Nihonjin desu (Mrs Satō is Japanese)
Takeshi-kun mo Nihonjin desu (Takeshi is Japanese as well)

- Ani wa kaisha-in desu (My older brother is a company worker)
Otōto mo kaisha-in desu (My younger brother is a company worker as well)

You can also use mo this way:
- An-san mo Tani-san mo gakusei desu = Both Anne and Tani are students
- Takeshi-kun mo Satō-sensei mo Nihonjin desu = Both Takeshi and Mrs Sato are Japanese.

4. Kono hito wa haha desu This person is my mother
Japanese people show respect for other people outside their family by using polite words and phrases. For example, in previous lessons you learnt how san was attached to a name when you are addressing someone else, or how o is attached to certain words when talking to other people (o-namae - your name).

In contrast, Japanese people use words which are more 'humble' (or modest) when talking about themselves or members of their own family. Therefore Tani doesnt say kochira wa ... (this person) when talking about her own mother. Instead she says kono hito which is a more everyday word for this person. She could also use kore wa (this).

5. Iie, Henri ja arimasen No, he's not Henri.
To say is not, am not, are not, etc., in Japanese, you use ja arimasen or the more polite version, dewa arimasen. For example:
- Tokei ja arimasen = It is not a watch
- Ichigatsu ja arimasen. Nigatsu desu = It is not January. It's February.

To say was or were (in other words, past tense) in Japanese, you change desu to deshita. For example:
- Chichi wa haisha deshita = My father was a dentist
- Sensei wa Furansujin deshita = My teacher was French

And to say wasn't or weren't you use ja arimasen deshita (or dewa arimasen deshita). Here is a list of these expressions which you can refer back to.
CODE
am/is/are | was/were | am not/is not/are not | was not/were not
desu | deshita | ja/dewa arimasen | ja/dewa arimasen deshita


6. Haha mo chichi mo isha desu Both my mother and father are doctors
There is an important difference between Japanese and English. In English we say one doctor and two doctors, in other words we have a singular and a plural. But generally in Japanese there is no difference between one or more than one of something, and as you saw in Explanation 5 above, desu covers all the different words we use in English (is, are, am).

7. Nan-nin desu ka. Yo-nin desu How many people are there? There are four people
When counting people, you add the numbers ichi, ni, san, etc. to the word nin. Nin means person/people, therefore san-nin would mean three people.

However, when saying one person you use hitori, and for two people you use futari. Also, the word four (yon) is shortened to yo.

To ask how many people? you say nan-nin desu ka. Nan means what but better translates to how many in this case.

8. Mōichido itte kudasai Please say it again
If you didnt catch what was said to you, this phrase is a polite way of asking the person to repeat what was said. You could also use yukkuri itte kudasai to get the speaker to speak a little slower. Also, you could add sumimasen to the beginning of the sentence to be even more polite. For example:
- Sumimasen, mōichido itte kudasai = Excuse me but would you mind saying that again please?

--------------------------------------------

LESSON 5 PRACTISE - click me!

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 6 2005, 03:24 PM
320cbr
post Dec 6 2005, 01:02 PM

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I've been wondering, whats the difference between gakusei(学生) and seito(生徒)
do we use gakusei for university student?

note that chichi(父) and haha(母) are used when mentioning our own family
if we mention someone else's would be otou-san(お父さん) or okaa-san(お母さん)
例:あの人は山田のお父さんですか?
ano hito wa yamada no otou-san desu ka?

and btw, I think better use koibito 恋人(lover) than boyfriend hehe
plus u can use it for both gf and bf biggrin.gif


This post has been edited by 320cbr: Dec 6 2005, 01:09 PM
TSjhcj
post Dec 6 2005, 01:07 PM

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QUOTE(320cbr @ Dec 6 2005, 01:02 PM)
I've been wondering, whats the difference between gakusei(学生) and seito(生徒)
do we use gakusei for university student?

note that chichi(父) and haha(母) are used when mentioning our own family
if we mention someone else's would be otou-san(お父さん) or okaa-san(お母さん)
*
Yup, that's why the heading is kazoku which translates to 'your own family'

And I intentionally left out some words (like sister), which will be covered in future lessons.

Regarding gakusei and seito, I'm wondering the exact same thing! tongue.gif
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post Dec 6 2005, 01:17 PM

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QUOTE(320cbr @ Dec 6 2005, 01:02 PM)
I've been wondering, whats the difference between gakusei(学生) and seito(生徒)
do we use gakusei for university student?

note that chichi(父) and haha(母) are used when mentioning our own family
if we mention someone else's would be otou-san(お父さん) or okaa-san(お母さん)
例:あの人は山田のお父さんですか?
ano hito wa yamada no otou-san desu ka?

and btw, I think better use koibito 恋人(lover) than boyfriend hehe
plus u can use it for both gf and bf biggrin.gif
*
IIAM, gakusei is widely use. But maybe that's for certain terms. I dont know much about both two words.

If they're married, they never use much the word koibito for each others.
320cbr
post Dec 6 2005, 01:26 PM

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well yea when they're married they are wife and husband...
I was just commenting on boifurendo tongue.gif
and I did say use for boyfriend and girlfriend
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post Dec 6 2005, 01:28 PM

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QUOTE(Dark Steno @ Dec 6 2005, 01:17 PM)
IIAM, gakusei is widely use. But maybe that's for certain terms. I dont know much about both two words.

If they're married, they never use much the word koibito for each others.
*
icic... how about a scandal? (Maried guy with 3 timer faces laugh.gif ) do they call koibito also?
ryosuke
post Dec 6 2005, 02:18 PM

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' dar leh ' spelling error?? blink.gif is oso who rite...

'' anata dar leh? '' = who r u..
question tor... biggrin.gif ... 'onicha' spelling error?? is for brother/sister rite?? huh.gif
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post Dec 6 2005, 02:37 PM

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LESSON 5 - Practise
1. Below are a few names of people, their occupation, and their hobbies and interests. How would you introduce them to someone else? The first one is done as an example.
a. Steven, student, likes sports.
Kochira wa Steven-san desu. Steven-san wa gakusei desu. Shumi wa supōtsu desu.

b. Andrew, shop assistant, football.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


c. Peter, doctor, golf
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


2. Your friend asks you, "Secretary wa nihongo de 'seito' desu ka." What did your friend say? How would you reply?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


3. Make the pair of sentences given into one sentence using the word mo. An example is given.
a. Takeshi-kun wa seito desu. Jun-kun wa seito desu.
Takeshi-kun mo Jun-kun mo seito desu.

b. An-san wa gakusei desu. Haidi-san wa gakusei desu.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


c. Haha wa haisha desu. Chichi wa haisha desu.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


4. How would you say in Japanese, "I am not a teacher. I am student"?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


5. How would you ask someone to:
a. repeat what was said?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


b. speak more slowly?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 6 2005, 02:43 PM
Dark Steno
post Dec 6 2005, 02:49 PM

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QUOTE(ryosuke @ Dec 6 2005, 02:18 PM)
' dar leh ' spelling error??  blink.gif  is oso who rite...

'' anata dar leh? '' = who r u..
question tor... biggrin.gif  ... 'onicha' spelling error?? is for brother/sister rite??  huh.gif
*
Anata dare? means 'Who are you?'.

Oni-chan is for elder brother. Onee-chan is for elder sister. Otouto is for younger brother while Imouto is for younger sister.

Edit: Sometimes you might here Japanese talking like Anata dale because they tend to soften their tongue to pronounce the L letters. As they dont have any letters using L like letter.

This post has been edited by Dark Steno: Dec 6 2005, 02:51 PM
TSjhcj
post Dec 6 2005, 02:59 PM

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QUOTE(ryosuke @ Dec 6 2005, 02:18 PM)
' dar leh ' spelling error?? blink.gif is oso who rite...

'' anata dar leh? '' = who r u..
question tor... biggrin.gif ... 'onicha' spelling error?? is for brother/sister rite?? huh.gif
*
Dammit I typed a response complete with kana and kanji, but damned IE messed up and I lost everything. DAMN YOU IE. I'm not allowed to install Firefox in the office T_T

QUOTE(Dark Steno @ Dec 6 2005, 02:49 PM)
Anata dare? means 'Who are you?'.

Oni-chan is for elder brother. Onee-chan is for elder sister. Otouto is for younger brother while Imouto is for younger sister.

Edit: Sometimes you might here Japanese talking like Anata dale because they tend to soften their tongue to pronounce the L letters. As they dont have any letters using L like letter.
*
Thanks for explaining the 'r' sound, although I've already done so in Lesson 2 (ryosuke fails for not reading that beforehand >_>). thumbup.gif

I dont know if you pronounce it as onii-chan and onē-chan in Japanese, cause actually it's oniisan and onēsan. But hey, I'm gonna leave it at that, cause it's for the upcoming lesson. tongue.gif

[edit] First post updated with a link to a directory of Japanese language schools in Malaysia, for those who are interested in taking up lessons. smile.gif

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 6 2005, 03:42 PM
ryosuke
post Dec 6 2005, 06:08 PM

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QUOTE(Dark Steno @ Dec 6 2005, 02:49 PM)
Anata dare? means 'Who are you?'.

Oni-chan is for elder brother. Onee-chan is for elder sister. Otouto is for younger brother while Imouto is for younger sister.

Edit: Sometimes you might here Japanese talking like Anata dale because they tend to soften their tongue to pronounce the L letters. As they dont have any letters using L like letter.
*
wah..thanks notworthy.gif so the sound of brother n sister r quite close eh?? rolleyes.gif no wonder i confused ler sweat.gif

QUOTE(jhcj @ Dec 6 2005, 02:59 PM)
Thanks for explaining the 'r' sound, although I've already done so in Lesson 2 (ryosuke fails for not reading that beforehand >_>). thumbup.gif

*
hehe..that's a lot of words leh.. wait i finished my final test 1st tongue.gif then i'll study that thumbup.gif
Dark Steno
post Dec 7 2005, 01:51 PM

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QUOTE(jhcj @ Dec 6 2005, 02:59 PM)
Dammit I typed a response complete with kana and kanji, but damned IE messed up and I lost everything. DAMN YOU IE. I'm not allowed to install Firefox in the office T_T
*
Abit off topic, you can try install your FF inside your usb drive for example. I dont remember how but it's useful when going to cyber cafes or other places that dont allowed installing such a thing inside their PCs. Even your extension can be installed along inside the usb drive. wink.gif Try google about it.
TSjhcj
post Dec 8 2005, 01:03 PM

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LESSON 6: Sūji = Numbers (Part 1)

A short, but necessary lesson prior to lesson 7.

Vocabulary list
Numbers 1-12
ichi = one
ni = two
san = three
shi (yon) = four
go = five
roku = six
shichi (nana) = seven
hachi = eight
ku (kyū) = nine
= ten
jū-ichi = eleven
jū-ni = twelve

Numbers 21-99
ni-jū = twenty
san-jū = thirty
yon-jū = fourty
go-jū = fifty
roku-jū = sixty
nana-jū = seventy
hachi-jū = eighty
kyū-jū = ninety

So any 21, 22, etc., you simply add ichi, ni, san, etc., after ni-jū. Same goes for other numbers. For example:
- 21 = ni-jū-ichi
- 22 = ni-jū-ni and so on.

You will notice that a dash (-) is placed between the different words to give you a sense of how to it is made up. From now on, whenever numbers are being mentioned, the dash will not be used.

Months
Numbers are very useful in Japanese and are used in a number of different ways. When saying months, the word "-gatsu" is added after the numbers 1-12 to signify the twelve different months of the year.

ichi-gatsu = january
ni-gatsu = february
san-gatsu = march
shi-gatsu = april
go-gatsu = may
roku-gatsu = june
shichi-gatsu = july
hachi-gatsu = august
ku-gatsu = september
jū-gatsu = october
jū-ichi-gatsu = november
jū-ni-gatsu = december

Denwa-bangō Phone numbers
Phone numbers are said using the individual digits ichi, ni, ...ku. A dash between groups of numbers is usually spoken using no. 0 is pronounced zero or rei (the ze of zero rhymes with he of the name 'Helen'). For example:
- 020-8776-7333 = zero-ni-zero-no-hachi-nana-nana-roku-no-nana-san-san-san

You usually use nana (not shichi) for 7, yon (not shi) for 4, and kyū (not ku) for 9, when saying phone numbers.

Also, you might notice that there are two words for number in this lesson: sūji and bangō. Sūji is used for numbers that you can count - 1, 2, 3, etc. Bangō on the other hand is used for numbers that describe items or information e.g. phone, bus, and room numbers.

--------------------------------------------

LESSON 6 PRACTISE - click me!

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 8 2005, 02:48 PM
TSjhcj
post Dec 8 2005, 02:47 PM

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LESSON 6 PRACTISE
1. Pronounce these phone numbers in Japanese
a. 03-3276-5453
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


b. 03-8893-3221
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


2. Do the math and answer the questions. Speak the answers in Japanese.
a. 19 - 3 = ?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


b. 53 - 21 = ?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


c. 34 + 64 = ?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


3. Match the months with their Japanese names
a. January = (ichigatsu/shigatsu/hachigatsu)?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


b. September = (rokugatsu/kugatsu/jūgatsu)?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


c. Rokugatsu = (April/June/October)?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


d. Hachigatsu = (August/September/October)?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

TSjhcj
post Dec 9 2005, 03:40 PM

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LESSON 7: Kazoku wa gonin desu = There are five people in my family


Introduction
The Japanese distinguish between the group they belong to, the 'in-group' (family, company, etc.) and the 'out-group' (other families, companies, foreigners, etc.). When referring to the in-group, they use language which expresses humility, and when referring to the out-group they use language which expresses politeness and deference.

This is illustrated well in the words used for family members. For example, when you talk to someone outside your family about your mother you use the humble word haha, whereas when you talk about someone else's mother you use the polite word okāsan. And when you talk of your own family you say kazoku, but for someone else's family you add the respect word go and say go-kazoku.

However, when Japanese people talk directly to their family they use the polite word rather than the humble words.

Vocabulary list
Own family
family = kazoku
husband = shujin
wife = kanai
daughter = musume
son = musuko
parents =ryōshin
mother =haha
father =chichi
older brother =ani
older sister =ane
younger sister =imōto
younger brother =otōto

Someone else's family
family = go-kazoku
husband = go-shujin
wife = okusan
daughter = musume-san
son = musuko-san
parents = go-ryōshin
mother = okāsan
father = otōsan
older brother = oniisan
older sister = onēsan
younger sister = imōto-san
younger brother = otōto-san

nansai desu ka = how old are you?
gojusai = 50 years old
tanjōbi = birthday

Sample conversation
Anne is telling the Yamaguchis' about her family and showing them some photos
Reiko: (studying a photo) Otōsan desu ka.
Anne: Ē, sō desu.
Reiko: Wakai desu ne.
Anne: Sō desu ka. Chichi wa gojusai desu.
Emi: Kore wa donata desu ka.
Anne: Imōto desu. Imōto wa gakusei desu.
Emi: Kawaii desu ne. Imōto-san wa nansai desu ka.
Anne: Jūroku-sai desu. Are, tanjōbi wa shichigatsu deshita. Jūnana-sai desu.
Takeshi: Kore wa okāsan desu ka.
Anne: Ē, so desu. Haha wa nijūni-sai desu.
Takeshi: Are! Okāsan wa nansai desu ka. Mōichido itte kudasai.
Anne: Nijūni-sai desu.
Takeshi: Demo ... An-san mo nijūni-sai ne?
Anne: (amidst laughter) Takeshi-kun! Jōdan desu yo.

Extras
ē = yes (softer than hai)
wakai = (looks) young
kawaii = pretty, cute
are = (expression of suprise)
demo = but
jōdan = joke

Explanations
1. Imōto-san wa nansai desu ka How old is your sister?
In previous lessons you learnt nan desu ka (what is it?). Nan means what, and if you attach sai to it, you form the question nansai - what age? or how old? In the same way, you can ask people what month is it? (nangatsu desu ka) and how many people (nannin desu ka).

To answer, you simply attach the number to sai: I am 14 = watashi wa jūyon-sai desu. However, be careful with ages which end in 1, 8 or 10, for example 11, 18, 30. The numbers are shortened to:

11 = jūisai
18 = jūhasai
28 = nijūhasai
10 = jūsai
30 = sanjūsai, etc.

Also, the age of 20 (when Japanese people come of age) has its own special word: hatachi.
- Example: Jane-san wa hatachi desu.

2. Watashi no tanjōbi wa nigatsu jūhachi-nichi desu My birthday is February 18th
In previous lessons you learnt how to say months in Japanese. To say the dates, you add the word nichi (day) to the number.
11th = jūichi-nichi
12th = jūni-nichi
13th = jūsan-nichi
14th = jūyokka
15th = jūgo-nichi
16th = jūroku-nichi
17th = jūshichi-nichi
18th = jūhachi-nichi
19th = jūku-nichi
20th = hatsuka
21st = nijūichi-nichi
22nd = nijūni-nichi
23rd = nijūsan-nichi
24th = nijūyokka
25th = nijūgo-nichi
26th = nijūroku-nichi
27th = nijūshichi-nichi
28th = nijūhachi-nichi
29th = nijūku-nichi
30th = sanjū-nichi
31st = sanjūichi-nichi

Notice that 14th, 20th and 24th are different. And if you're wondering where the 1st - 10th are, you will learn them in the next lesson because they follow a different rule to the one above.

When you say a date in Japanese, you always say the month first before the date. For example, 13th May = gogatsu, jūsan-nichi

3. Go-kazoku wa nannin desu ka How many people are in your family?
Anne comes from a family of 5. Besides her parents, she has an older sister and a younger sister. She would introduce her family as below:
- Kozoku wa gonin desu. Haha to chichi to ane to imōto to watashi desu.

Instead of saying "Haha to chichi to...", Anne could have also said "ryōshin to". Remember, to = and; and you usually mention yourself last. Men can use boku instead of watashi.

If you have two brothers, three sisters, ..., put the people counter after the family word like this:
- ani ga futari = two older brothers
- ane ga sannin = three older sisters
- musuko ga futari = two sons

Dont worry about the particle ga for now.

You can then expand this by giving information on their age:
- ane wa nijūgo-sai desu = my older sister is 25
- watashi wa yonjūgo-sai desu = i am 45.

-----------------------------------------------------

PRACTISE FOR LESSON 7: click me!

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 16 2005, 11:19 AM
boringpig
post Dec 11 2005, 02:35 AM

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there is one thing i have been wondering.. forgot to ask my sensē..
whenever we were practising in class, each sentence must end with a desu.. if we are saying a few sentences in a go, there would be a few desu.. do we actually speak like that in real life.. "bla bla bla desu. bla bla bla bla desu. bla bla bla desu"?? huh.gif
xxboxx
post Dec 11 2005, 04:38 AM

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desu = am, is, are
but unlike english which "am, is, are" are put in the middle of sentence , nihongo put it at the end of sentence, thats why you feel you keep hearing it.

another common usage of word for ending is ne/nae (not sure the spelling), which is "don't you agree?"
Dark Steno
post Dec 11 2005, 02:55 PM

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QUOTE(boringpig @ Dec 11 2005, 02:35 AM)
there is one thing i have been wondering.. forgot to ask my sensē..
whenever we were practising in class, each sentence must end with a desu.. if we are saying a few sentences in a go, there would be a few desu.. do we actually speak like that in real life.. "bla bla bla desu. bla bla bla bla desu. bla bla bla desu"?? huh.gif
*
Sensei, not sensē or sinseh.

Japanese language is pretty easy in building up sentences, the grammar. Let say, Anata wa baka desu, with added ka at the back, it will becomes a question type of sentence, Anata wa baka desu ka?.

xxboxx said something about the usage of ne. Depends on the meaning you want to say. It can become a question type(1) or to strengthen up the sentences(2).

(1) Anata wa baka desu ne... - If in Malay, 'Bodohnya awak ni'.
(2) Anata wa baka desu, ne? - Meaning, 'you're stupid, right?'.

*Sorry for using the word 'baka', but I just want to use something that you all can understand the meaning.
320cbr
post Dec 11 2005, 07:23 PM

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here is another confusion of ro-maji laugh.gif
because sensē is also can be accepted

btw the verbal form of 'desu' is 'da'
so when talking, some might say 学生だ gakusei da! (is a student)
instead of 学生です gakusei desu

and the 1st to 10th day of the month...
i still havent remembered it tongue.gif

This post has been edited by 320cbr: Dec 11 2005, 07:29 PM
Dark Steno
post Dec 11 2005, 09:12 PM

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Usually people use sensei, but well, I am not taken any Japanese classes officially. But anyway, it's from Kanji that could be anything.
Geminist
post Dec 11 2005, 10:26 PM

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Wow ...

Thanks alot for all this lesson ... hehehe ...

*Suddenly I have the thoughts of hijacking your lesson to EE* laugh.gif

can someone teach me how do I say what time it is now?

For example, "It's 9.00am now" ...
Dark Steno
post Dec 11 2005, 10:35 PM

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Hmm, I forgot. You can say, Ima wa kyu .... desu. Means, I dont remember the exact thing there. tongue.gif
HMMaster
post Dec 11 2005, 10:42 PM

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topic pinned. please make good use of it. biggrin.gif
320cbr
post Dec 11 2005, 11:14 PM

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it's 9 now,
今九時です。(ima ku ji desu)
note : when stating time kyuu (nine) is said as ku

as for 9.30, half past nine u say,
今九時半です。(ima ku ji han desu) where 半 is the half

asking time,
今何時ですか?(ima nan ji desu ka?)
TSjhcj
post Dec 12 2005, 10:15 AM

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QUOTE(Geminist @ Dec 11 2005, 10:26 PM)
Wow ...

Thanks alot for all this lesson ... hehehe ...

*Suddenly I have the thoughts of hijacking your lesson to EE* laugh.gif

can someone teach me how do I say what time it is now?

For example, "It's 9.00am now" ...
*
Lol it's in the next lesson actually. laugh.gif

QUOTE(HMMaster @ Dec 11 2005, 10:42 PM)
topic pinned. please make good use of it. biggrin.gif
*
W00t pinned! Do i win anything? XD

TSjhcj
post Dec 12 2005, 10:50 AM

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LESSON 7 - Practise
1. How do you say these birthday dates in Japanese? The first one is done for you as an example. Remember the pronounciation for the special dates marked with *.

a. Anne, February 18th
An-san no tanjōbi wa nigatsu jūhachi-nichi desu.

b. Scott, May 11th
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


c. Tani, August 21st
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


d. Heidi, November 20th*
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


e. Takeshi, January 14th*
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


2. These are the family trees of Scott, Tani and Mr Yamaguchi. Take the place of these characters and describe 'your' family tree as it is given below. The first one is done for you as an example.

a. Mother, father, older sister, younger sister, Anne.
Kazoku wa gonin desu. Haha to chichi to ane to imōto to watashi desu.

b. Mother, father, younger brother, Scott.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


c. Mother, older brother, Tani.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


d. Mr. Yamaguchi, wife, daughter, son.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 12 2005, 10:51 AM
TSjhcj
post Dec 12 2005, 12:20 PM

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LESSON 8: Ima nanji desu ka = What time is it?

Introduction
In this lesson you will learn:
- how to tell the time.
- some useful shopping phrases.
- saying this and that.
- opening and closing times.

In previous lessons you learnt that nan is attached to words to make questions e.g. nansai desu ka (how old (what age) are you?). Similarly, when you attach nan to ji you form the question nanji desu ka (what time is it?). To answer, you replace nan with a number, for example goji desu means it is 5 o'clock.

You are also going to use a new word, kudasai which means may I (have). For example, hon o kudasai (may I have the book?).

Vocabulary list
... o kudasai = may i have ... (or '... please')
... o misete kudasai = please may i see ...
kore = this one/these ones
kono = this/these
sore = that one/those ones
sono = that/those
are = that one over there/those ones over there
ano = that over there/those over there
dore = which one(s)
dono = which
ōkii = big
chiisai = small
chōdo ii = just right
chotto = a little, a bit
motto = more
motto chiisai = smaller
irasshaimase = welcome! (said by shop assistants and traders)
shōshō omachi kudasai = please wait a moment (very formal)
dewa (sometimes shortened to ja) = right! (when you've made up your mind)
kara = from
made = until
depāto = department store
sūpā = supermarket
menyū = menu

Sample conversation
Reiko has taken Anne and Emi shopping in a Tokyo department store. Anne needs a new watch.
Assistant: Irasshaimase!
Anne: (points to display in front of assistant) Sono tokei o misete kudasai.
Assistant: Hai, dōzo.
Anne: (tries on watch) Chotto ōkii desu. (points to the window display) Ano tokei mo misete kudasai.
Assistant: Shōshō omachi kudasai. (returns with watch) Dōzo. (Anne tries on watch)
Emi: Sore wa chiisai desu ka.
Anne: Iie, chōdo ii desu.
Emi: Sono tokei wa suteki desu ne.
Anne: So desu ne. Dewa, kore o kudasai.
Assistant: Hai, arigatō gozaimasu.

Later they are having lunch in a coffee shop.
Reiko: An-san, nihongo no kurasu wa nanji desu ka.
Anne: Ni-ji kara desu.
Emi: Ima nanji desu ka.
Anne: (looks proudly at watch) Ichi-ji han desu... Are! Kurasu wa mō sugu desu.
Reiko: An-san! Hayaku!

Extras
suteki = smart, fashionable
mō sugu = soon
hayaku = quick, hurry up

Explanations
1. Irasshaimase Welcome! (May I help you?)
Japanese shop assistants will use very formal phrases when dealing with customers, as seen in the passage above i.e. irasshaimase and shōshō omachi kudasai. You dont have to use these phrases, but you may hear them if you go to Japan.

2. Sono tokei That watch
You will notice two main points about saying this and that in Japanese. Firstly, there are two sets of words. For example, both kore and kono mean this. Think of kore as meaning this one. Anne says Dewa, kore o kudasai (Right! I'll have this (one) please). Kono, on the other hand, is followed directly by the item it describes: kono tokei o kudasai means may i have this watch please. Similarly, sore means that (one) and sono means that. Here are some examples to further illustrate these subtle differences:

- Sore o misete kudasai = Please show me that (one)
Sono hon o misete kudasai = Please show me that book

Also note:
- Are o kudasai = I'll have that (one) over there
Ano tokei o kudasai = I'll have that watch over there

This last example takes us on to the second point. Whereas in English we have two words, this and that, in Japanese there is a third - are (or ano), meaning that one over there. For example: in English you would use this when you are holding onto something, but that when you are pointing towards something which is near you. When using are (or ano), the item in this case is at a distance from the person speaking and the person being spoken to.

To ask which one (which watch?) you say dore (dono tokei)? and this is the same for all three positions.

3. ... o kudasai/... o misete kudasai May I have/may I see ...
These are two useful and easy-to-use Japanese phrases for shopping (and for other situations too). You simply put the object at the beginning of the phrase:
- kōhī o kudasai = may i have some coffee?
- eigo no shimbun o kudasai = may i have an English newspaper?
- shashin o misete kudasai = may i see the photo please?

4. Ima nanji desu ka What time is it (now)?
The times of the day are pronounced as follows:
- ichiji = 1 o'clock
- niji = 2 o'clock
- sanji = 3 o'clock
- yoji = 4 o'clock (note that you use yo, not yon or shi)
- goji = 5 o'clock
- rokuji = 6 o'clock
- shichiji = 7 o'clock (use shichi not nana)
- hachiji = 8 o'clock
- kuji = 9 o'clock (use ku not kyū)
- jūji = 10 o'clock
- jūichiji = 11 o'clock
- jūniji = 12 o'clock

5. Ichiji han desu It's half-past one
Saying half-past is straightforward too; just add han (half-past) after ji. For example: 2:30 = niji han desu, 4:30 = yoji han desu.

6. Niji kara desu (It's) from 2 o'clock
Kara means from (you met this in previous lessons) and made means to/until. They can take on the meaning of starts/opens at and finishes/closes at. For example:
- nihongo no kurasu wa niji kara goji made desu = the japanese class is from 2 o'clock until 5 o'clock.
- depāto wa kuji kara rokuji made desu = the department store opens at 9 and closes at 6.

Kara and made are not just used with the time of day. For example, you can say:
- nigatsu kara rokugatsu made = from February to June (time of year)
- Igirisu kara Nihon made = from England to Japan (place)

7. Gozen/gogo a.m./p.m.
If you want to distinguish between a.m. and p.m. when saying the time, use gozen (a.m.) and gogo (p.m.). These are spoken before the time:
- ima gozen hachiji desu = it's now 8 a.m.
- shigoto wa gogo goji han made desu = my work finishes at 5.30 p.m.

Finally, gogo also means afternoon (after midday):
- Nihongo no kurasu wa gogo desu = the Japanese class is in the afternoon.

--------------------------------------------

LESSON 8 PRACTISE - click me!

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 13 2005, 03:39 PM
320cbr
post Dec 12 2005, 12:38 PM

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QUOTE(jhcj @ Dec 12 2005, 10:15 AM)
Lol it's in the next lesson actually. laugh.gif
*
oops, hope u dont mind, sorry sweat.gif
TSjhcj
post Dec 12 2005, 01:48 PM

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QUOTE(320cbr @ Dec 12 2005, 12:38 PM)
oops, hope u dont mind, sorry sweat.gif
*
Nah...it's alright. However, there's a mistake in your explanation though. You don't need a question mark after the word ka (か). tongue.gif

So instead of:
今何時ですか?(ima nan ji desu ka?),

it should just be:
asking time,
今何時ですか(ima nan ji desu ka) laugh.gif

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 12 2005, 01:48 PM
TSjhcj
post Dec 13 2005, 03:38 PM

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LESSON 8 - PRACTISE

1. Say the following times in Japanese:
a. 6pm
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


b. 8am
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


c. 10am
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


d. 11 o'clock
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


e. 7.30
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


f. 4.30
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


2. Look at the timetable below and say what time each class starts and finishes. Example: Rekishi wa kuji kara jūji made desu.

09:00 - 10:00 = History (rekishi)
10:00 - 11:00 = Japanese
11.30 - 12.30 = French
01.30 - 02:30 = English
03:00 - 04:00 = Tennis club (tenisu kurabu)

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


3. How would you say in Japanese...
a. May I see the menu please?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


b. May I have this please?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


c. Please show me that watch.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


d. May I see that watch over there?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


e. Which one?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

TSjhcj
post Dec 16 2005, 11:08 AM

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LESSON 9: Ikura desu ka = How much is it?

Introduction
In this lesson you will learn:
- how to count in units of 100 and 1,000
- how to ask about and say prices of things
- ways of counting objects
- how to ask for something in a shop
- shop names

In this unit you will learn to count in 100s (hyaku) and 1,000s (sen). For example, 400 is yonhyaku and 5,000 is gosen.

Vocabulary list
Take note that some of the numbers may be pronounced slightly differently from what you are used to up till now. For example: 300 = sambyaku not san.

100 = hyaku
200 = nihyaku
300 = sambyaku
400 = yonhyaku
500 = gohyaku
600 = roppyaku
700 = nanahyaku
800 = happyaku
900 = kyūhyaku

1,000 = sen
2,000 = nisen
3,000 = sanzen
4,000 = yonsen
5,000 = gosen
6,000 = rokusen
7,000 = nanasen
8,000 = hassen
9,000 = kyūsen

en = yen (Japanese currency)
ikura desu ka = how much is it?
... ga arimasu ka = do you have ... ?
hon ga arimasu ka = do you have a book?

kyokuin = postmaster/assistant
hagaki = postcard
kitte = stamp(s)
tegami = letter
mai = counter for flat items
hon (pon/bon) = counter for cylindrical items
jū-mai = ten (stamps, tickets, etc.)
ni-hon = two (bottles, pens, etc.)
koko = here (this place)
soko = there (that place)
asoko = over there (that place over there)
kippu = ticket

Sample conversation
Anne has gone to the local post office (yūbinkyoku) to post some letters home.
Anne: Sumimasen, kono tegami wa Igirisu made ikura desu ka.
Kyokuin: (weighs the letter) Nihyaku jū-en desu.
Anne: Ano... hagaki wa Igirisu made ikura desu ka.
Kyokuin: Nanajū go-en desu.
Anne: Ja, nanajū go-en kitte o jū-mai kudasai.
Kyokuin: Hai. Ijō de yoroshii desu ka.
Anne: Ē to, hagaki ga arimasu ka.
Kyokuin: Ē, soko desu...Ichi-mai gojū-en desu.
Anne: Ja, kono hagaki o jū-mai kudasai.
Kyokuin: Arigatō gozaimasu. Zembu de... (he works it out on his abacus) sen yonhyaku rokujū-en desu.

Extras
yūbinkyoku = post office
ijō de yoroshii desu ka = is that all?

Explanations
1. Counting above 100
As you may have noticed, some numbers are pronounced differently when combined with hyaku (100) or sen (1,000):
- 300 (sambyaku)
- 600 (roppyaku)
- 800 (happyaku)
- 3,000 (san zen)
- 8,000 (hassen)

(Note that issen = 1,000 whereas sen = a 1,000 - you can use either.)

There is a further category of number once you reach 10,000. Whereas in English we count in 1,000s until we reach 1 million, the Japanese have another unit called man used for counting in 10,000s. You add the numbers ichi, ni, san, etc. to the word man. For example: ichiman = 10,000 (1 x 10,000) and niman = 20,000 (2 x 10,000). Utilising this category of numbers, the following numbers will be pronounced as:
- 45,000 = yonman, gosen
- 56,500 = goman, rokusen, gohyaku
- 82,450 = hachiman, nisen, yonhyaku, gojū

2. O-kane Money
The yen is the Japanese unit of currency. Here is the range of coins and notes:

coins: ichi-en (1 yen), go-en (5 yen), jū-en (10 yen), gojū-en (50 yen), hyaku-en (100 yen), gohyaku-en (500 yen).
notes: sen-en (1,000 yen), nisen-en (2,000 yen), gosen-en (5,000 yen), ichiman-en (10,000 yen).

3. Hagaki wa Igirisu made ikura desu ka How much is a postcard to England?
You ask how much something is using the phrase ... wa ikura desu ka. For example:
- kitte wa ikura desu ka = how much is a stamp?
- kippu wa ikura desu ka = how much is a ticket?

If you want to state the destination, put made (to) (you met this in the previous lesson) after the name of the city or country. For example:
- kono tegami wa Amerika made ikura desu ka = how much is this letter to the USA?
- kippu wa Kyōto made ikura desu ka = how much is a ticket to Kyoto?

4. Hagaki ga arimasu ka Do you have any postcards?
If you want to enquire whether a shop or person has the thing you are looking for, use the phrase ... ga arimasu ka. For example:
- eigo no shimbun ga arimasu ka = do you have any English newspapers?
- kitte ga arimasu ka = do you have any stamps?

If you want to say that you have or possess something, use ... ga arimasu. For example:
- uchi ga arimasu = i own a house
- o-kane ga arimasu = i have money
- shimbun ga arimasu = i've got a newspaper

5. More about numbers
In the following examples you will notice that two different words are used to say one, and also that it is not enough in Japanese simply to say ichi when talking about numbers of items.

- ichi-mai hyaku-en desu = one (postcard) is 100 yen
- hitotsu sambyaku-en desu = one (coffee, etc.) is 300 yen

There are actually two different ways in Japanese of counting. They shall be referred to as System A and System B from now on.

System A
You have already learnt to count using ichi, ni, san, etc. When you talk about numbers of items you need to attach a special word - called a counter - after the number. In Bahasa Melayu, this is equivalent to a penjodoh bilangan e.g. sekuntum bunga, sebaris orang, etc. In English, the examples of counters that are sometimes used are for example, a loaf of bread, two slices of bread, etc.

In this unit you will learn two counters (out of many others) which are used with ichi, ni, san, etc. Now look at these examples below:
@ mai is a counter for flat objects - stamps, tickets, paper, cards, etc.
- 1 = ichi-mai
- 2 = ni-mai,
- 3 = san-mai, etc.

@ hon (pon, bon) is a counter for long or cylindrical objects - bottles, pens, umbrella, etc.
- 1 = ippon
- 2 = nihon
- 3 = sambon

There are many more special counters in Japanese for counting different groups of items, for example, birds, animals, books, machines. However, the two examples given now is enough at this stage.

System B
The second set of numbers is used for the many items which don't have a special counter. You could use this system for counting any object, even those which have a special 'System A' counter. Although in some cases you might sound a little childish to a Japanese listener, you will be able to make yourself understood.

1 = hitotsu
2 = futatsu
3 = mittsu
4 = yottsu
5 = itsutsu
6 = muttsu
7 = nanatsu
8 = yattsu
9 = kokonotsu
10 =

After you use jūichi (11), jūni (12), etc., just as you learnt to count in previous lessons.

6. Kitte o jūmai kudasai May I have ten stamps, please?
We learnt ... o kudasai (may i have ...) in the previous lesson. When you want to say an amount you put the number (plus counter if necessary) between o and kudasai. For example:
- kōhī o futatsu kudasai = may i have two coffees, please? (System B)
- bīru o ippon kudasai = may i have a (bottle of) beer, please? (System A)
- bīru o hitotsu kudasai = may i have a beer, please? (System B)
- kitte o gomai kudasai = may i have five stamps, please? (System A)

You could also say:
- kitte o isutsu kudasai = may i have five stamps, please? (System B),

but gomai sounds more sophisticated, as explained in explanation number 5.

7. Nanajūgo-en no kitte o jūmai kudasai May I have 10 x 75 yen stamps, please?
You can add information about the price, using no. You were introduced to the word no before. It is used to show a relationship between two items/people. For example, sensei no hon means the teacher's book. In the examples below, you could think of no as meaning priced, for example:
- hyaku-en no kitte = a 100 yen priced stamp
- nihyaku-en no pen o nihon kudasai = may i have 2 x 200 yen priced pens, please?
- sambyaku-en no aisukuriimu o mittsu kudasai = may i have 3 x 300 yen priced ice-creams, please?

8. Asoko desu It's over there
In previous lessons you learnt the words kore, sore and are for this one, that one, and that one over there (also kono, sono and ano). Similarly, here/this place, there/that place, and over there/that place over there also follow the same pattern using the words koko, soko and asoko. For example:
- koko wa Tōkyō desu = this place is Tokyo
- hagaki wa asoko desu = the postcards are over there

The question word is doko (where) and you will meet this in the coming lessons.

9. Shop names
Ya in Japanese means shop/store, and you add this to the end of words to make shop names. For example:
- hana (flower) + ya = hanaya (florist's)

--------------------------------------------

LESSON 9 PRACTISE - click me!

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 21 2005, 09:35 AM
TSjhcj
post Dec 16 2005, 11:21 AM

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I've noticed that vowels with the macron sign (-) will not appear when it's type out with the [code] tag. >.<''''

Therefore I removed this tag in lesson 7 and 9 so that you can actually read the words.

Funny how no one mentioned about it cause lesson 7's been out for quite some time. sweat.gif
xxboxx
post Dec 17 2005, 12:09 AM

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i got a question for lesson 5:
"nan (sometimes nani) = what?"
is this the same as when saying "nanika=something"?

another question:
"watashi no(?) tokoro de" = at my house
is "no" the correct word for the romanji?

watashi mo(?) = me too
is it "mo" or "mok"?
Dark Steno
post Dec 17 2005, 10:52 AM

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QUOTE(xxboxx @ Dec 17 2005, 12:09 AM)
i got a question for lesson 5:
"nan (sometimes nani) = what?"
is this the same as when saying "nanika=something"?

another question:
"watashi no(?) tokoro de" = at my house
is "no" the correct word for the romanji?

watashi mo(?) = me too
is it "mo" or "mok"?
*
1. Yes. You can use Nan desu ka? or anything related.
2. Yes
3. It's mo.
TSjhcj
post Dec 17 2005, 09:48 PM

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QUOTE(xxboxx @ Dec 17 2005, 12:09 AM)
i got a question for lesson 5:
"nan (sometimes nani) = what?"
is this the same as when saying "nanika=something"?

another question:
"watashi no(?) tokoro de" = at my house
is "no" the correct word for the romanji?

watashi mo(?) = me too
is it "mo" or "mok"?
*
Nan means what in English, so I'm assuming that if you combine that with the question word ka, you'll end up with Nani ka which means What is it?.

No () is a possesive particle, and it is used to show that something belongs to someone/something. So yes, watashi no tokoro de (at my house) is correct.

Mo is correct. It means also in English.
xxboxx
post Dec 17 2005, 10:13 PM

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QUOTE(jhcj @ Dec 17 2005, 09:48 PM)
Nan means what in English, so I'm assuming that if you combine that with the question word ka, you'll end up with Nani ka which means What is it?.
*
"nan/nani = what", since "what" is already a question, can we still put "ka"?

according to my learning guide, "nanika = something"
it is used for such as: "nanika tabemas = i want/going to eat something"
"nanika tabemasen ka? = won't you eat something?"

so it seem nanika is not nan/nani since it got different meaning, or is it?
TSjhcj
post Dec 17 2005, 10:41 PM

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QUOTE(xxboxx @ Dec 17 2005, 10:13 PM)
"nan/nani = what", since "what" is already a question, can we still put "ka"?

according to my learning guide, "nanika = something"
it is used for such as: "nanika tabemas = i want/going to eat something"
"nanika tabemasen ka? = won't you eat something?"

so it seem nanika is not nan/nani since it got different meaning, or is it?
*
Hmm...actually, I dont know. laugh.gif

I think what you meant is nani ga which means something. What is it should be nan ka.

[edited]

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 19 2005, 10:43 AM
Dark Steno
post Dec 21 2005, 12:01 AM

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I'm no expert but you can use nan in a lot of conditions.

Nandato?! - wtf?!
Nan da yo~ - oh! why~
TSjhcj
post Dec 21 2005, 09:34 AM

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LESSON 9 - PRACTISE

1. Below are some examples of prices of journeys from Tokyo by Japan Railways. Say the destination and prices in Japanese. The first one has been done as an example:
a. Yohohama = 440 yen
Tōkyō kara Yokohama made yonhyaku yonjū-en desu.

b. Narita = 2,890 yen
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c. Kyoto = 12,970 yen
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d. Nagasaki = 23,510 yen
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e. Sapporo = 21,380 yen
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2. Ask for the items below as in the example. The counter system to use is in the brackets.
a. Two cups of coffee
Kōhī o futatsu kudasai

b. Three postcards (mai)
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c. One bottle of beer (hon)
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d. Two glasses of milk (miruku) (System B)
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e. Six pens (hon)
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f. Three x 200 yen cakes (System B)
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g. Two x 1,000 yen tickets (mai)
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3. How do you say "How much is it to Shinjuku" in Japanese?
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4. How do you say "Do you have any English newspapers" in Japanese?
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5. From question 4, if you do have an English newspaper, what do you reply?
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6. If you dont have the newspaper, what do you say?
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This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 21 2005, 09:36 AM
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post Dec 21 2005, 10:04 AM

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The first part of the lessons have already concluded. Before you guys proceed to the next lessons, please make sure that you've really had a decent grasp of what's been covered up to this point.

I suggest that you guys re-read what's been posted up till this point to refresh your memories.

Next lesson will be posted up later today. smile.gif

TSjhcj
post Dec 21 2005, 04:17 PM

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LESSON 10: Yūbinkyoku wa doko desu ka = Where is the post office?

Introduction
In this lesson you will learn:
- how to ask for directions
- how to give directions
- how to say exactly where places are

You've learn that kudasai meant please or may I have. This word is also used when giving directions: (please) go straight ahead, (please) turn left.

Also, we've talked about question words (nan/i, what?; nanji, what time?; nansai, how old? etc.).

In this lesson you are going to learn a new question word doko (where?) to ask where something is. For example, yūbinkyoku wa doko desu ka Where is the post office?). Notice the sentence order: place wa doko desu ka.

Recap
Imagine you need to stop someone to ask them for directions. How do you:
a. catch their attention? (excuse me)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


b. ask where a bank (ginkō) is?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


c. ask them to repeat something?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


d. say thank you?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Vocabulary list
To go straight on
... itte kudasai = (please) go ...
massugu = straight on
chotto = a little way
massugu itte kudasai = please go straight on
chotto itte kudasai = please go on a little way

To turn
...magatte kudasai = (please) turn ...
migi = right
hidari = left
migi ni magatte kudasai = please turn (to the) right
hidari ni magatte kudasai = please turn (to the) left

Orientation points
shingō = traffic lights
kōsaten = crossroads
kado = corner
michi = road
tsugi no ... = the next ...
tsugi no shingō = the next traffic lights
nibanme no ... = the second ...
nibanme no kōsaten = the second crossroads

Giving directions
shingō o* massugu itte kudasai = go straight at the traffic lights
kōsaten o* migi ni magatte kudasai = turn right at the crossroads
tsugi no kado o* hidari ni magatte kudasai = turn left at the next corner

*Think of o in this case as meaning at. Note that it comes after the word e.g. shingō o (at the traffic lights). You will learn more about o in the next lesson.

Some useful phrases
ginkō = bank
eki = station
eigakan = cinema

Exact location
tonari = next to
chikaku = near to
ichiban chikai = the nearest
mukaigawa = opposite (side)
mae = in front of
hidarigawa = left-hand side
migigawa = right-hand side
... no tonari = next to the ...
ginkō no tonari = next to the bank
yūbinkyoku wa ginkō no tonari desu = the post office is next to the bank

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*Information*
You have now met two meanings for the word itte:
- say as in mōichido itte kudasai (please say it again)
- go as in massugu itte kudasai (please go straight on)

You will always know the meaning from the situation, so dont worry. There are lots of English words with more than one meaning too, e.g. bank, light, post.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sample conversation
Scott is going to visit Anne's host family and he is looking for Shibuya train station.
Scott: Sumimasen, Shibuya eki wa doko desu ka.
Passer-by: Ā, sumimasen, watashi wa eigo ga dekimasen. (he runs off)
Scott: Ē! (sees another passer-by) Sumimasen, Shibuya eki wa doko desu ka.
Passer-by: Shibuya eki desu ka. Ēto, kono michi o massugu itte, tsugi no shingō o hidari ni ... Aa, sumimasen, tsugi no shingō o migi ni magatte kudasai. Sorekara, nibanme no kōsaten o hidari ni magatte kudasai. Shibuya eki wa Tōkyō ginkō no mukaigawa desu.
Scott: Sumimasen, kono michi o massugu o itte ... sorekara? Mōichido itte kudasai.
Passer-by: Sorekara, tsugi no shingō o migi ni magatte kudasai.
Scott: Wakarimashita. Soshite, nibanme no kōsaten o hidari ni magatte ...
Passer-by: Hai, sō desu. Nihongo ga jōzu desu ne!
Scott: Iie, mada mada desu. Dōmo arigato gozaimashita.

Extras
ā! ē! = (expressions of suprise)
dekimasen = can't
sorekara, soshite = and, and then
wakarimashita = I understand
jōzu = good at
iie, mada mada desu = no, i'm not good yet

Explanations
1. ... wa doko desu ka Where is ...
The pattern here is fairly straightforward. You put the name of the place you want to go to at the beginning of the phrase. Place wa doko desu ka means Where is place?. To be more polite, say excuse me (sumimasen) before you ask. For example:
- sumimasen, ginkō wa doko desu ka = excuse me, where is the bank?

You might want to specify which bank, supermarket, etc. In this case, put the name first. For example:
- sumimasen, Jusco sūpā wa doko desu ka = excuse me, where is Jusco supermarket?

If you want to ask where the nearest one is, put ichiban chikai before the place. For example:
- sumimasen, ichiban chikai depāto wa doko desu ka = excuse me, where is the nearest department store?

2. Understanding and giving directions
In this lesson you have been introduced to two important phrases for giving directions: ... itte kudasai means please go ..., and ... magatte kudasai means please turn ... .

Once you have mastered some of the vocabulary in this unit you can gradually build up from fairly simple directions to more complex ones. Practise saying these build-up phrases, and when you feel more confident, try looking at the English phrase and try giving the Japanese phrase without looking at it.

massugu itte kudasai = please go straight ahead
kōsaten o massugu itte kudasai = please go straight on at the crossroads
tsugi no kōsaten o massugu itte kudasai = please go straight on at the next crossroads
nibanme no kōsaten o massugu itte kudasai = please go straight on at the second crossroads
hidari ni magatte kudasai = please turn left
migi ni magatte kudasai = please turn right
shingō o hidari ni magatte kudasai = please turn left at the traffic lights
shingō o migi ni magatte kudasai = please turn right at the traffic lights
tsugi no shingō o migi ni magatte kudasai = please turn right at the next traffic lights
nibanme no shingō o hidari ni magatte kudasai = please turn left at the second set of traffic lights

You can link two directions simply by leaving out the first kudasai. Thus, massugu itte kudasai + shingō o migi magatte kudasai becomes:
- massugu itte, shingō o migi ni magatte kudasai = please go straight on and turn right at the traffic lights

3. Giving the exact location
Ginkō no mukaigawa desu means (it's) opposite the bank. The word order is important here. In English, the word opposite comes before bank; in Japanese opposite comes after bank, with no in between. You could think of it as meaning the bank's opposite.

- yūbinkyoku no chikaku desu = (it's) near the post office
- eki no mae desu = (it's) in front of the station
- migigawa desu = (it's) on the right-hand side.

If you want to specify a place, you put it at the beginning of the sentence followed by the particle wa.

- depāto wa ginkō no mukaigawa desu = the department store is opposite the bank
- sūpa wa eki no tonari desu = the supermarket is next to the station
- eigakan wa hidarigawa desu = the cinema is on the left-hand side

--------------------------------------------

LESSON 10 PRACTISE - click me!

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 23 2005, 10:51 AM
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post Dec 23 2005, 10:50 AM

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LESSON 10 - PRACTISE

1. Give the following directions in Japanese:
a. please go straight ahead
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


b. please turn right
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c. please turn left
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d. please go straight at the traffic lights
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e. please turn right at the traffic lights
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f. please go straight ahead at the crossroads
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g. please turn right at the second set of traffic lights
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h. please turn left at the next crossroads
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2. The following questions refer to the following map (sorry la if it's poorly done, lol). See if the directions given in underline are wrong. If they are wrong, correct them:
user posted image

a. Eigakan wa Mitsukoshi depāto no chikaku desu.
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b. Jusco sūpā wa hanaya no mae desu. (There is a mistake in the picture for this one. There's supposed to be a florist next to Jusco.)
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c. Yūbinkyoku wa ginkō no mukaigawa desu.
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d. Ginkō wa eki no mukaigawa desu.
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e. Eki wa eigakan no chikaku desu.
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3. Refer to the previous map. You are at the hotel (on the right, before the traffic light). Give directions to the following locations:
a. The train station. (Go straight a little way and turn right at the traffic lights. THe station is on the left-hand side.)
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b. The bank. (Go straight ahead and turn right at the second set of traffic lights. The bank is next to the post office.)
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4. Which phrase would you choose to ask someone where the post office is?
a. Kōhī o futatsu kudasai.
b. Yūbinkyoku wa doko desu ka.
c. Yūbinkyoku no mae desu.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 26 2005, 10:08 AM
Mudmaniac
post Dec 24 2005, 09:20 AM

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俺の古い教科書から見たい。

自分で作ったのか?

TSjhcj
post Dec 26 2005, 10:05 AM

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QUOTE(Mudmaniac @ Dec 24 2005, 09:20 AM)
俺の古い教科書から見たい。

自分で作ったのか?
*
Wah, I dont understand!

>.<'''''

I cant read kanji. T_T
TSjhcj
post Dec 26 2005, 02:48 PM

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LESSON 11: Nichiyōbi ni nani o shimasu ka = What do you do on Sundays?

Introduction
In this lesson you will learn:
- ten useful doing words for describing your day
- how to say when you do something
- how to ask about someone's future schedule
- the days of the week
- some useful question words

Recap
1. Ima nanji desu ka
How well can you remember telling the time? Refresh your memory by saying the times below.
a. 6 o'clock
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b. 4.30
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c. 9pm
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d. 7.30am
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e. 12 o'clock
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f. 11.30am
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2. Say the times that these places open and close (start and finish) as in the example.
a. Wine shop, 10 - 8
Sakaya wa jūji kara hachiji made desu.

b. bank, 9 - 3
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c. supermarket, 8 - 8
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d. post office, 9 - 6
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Vocabulary list
Action words
okimasu = wake up (get up)
nemasu = go to bed
tabemasu = eat
nomimasu = drink
yomimasu = read
shimasu = do, make, play
mimasu = see, watch, look
benkyō shimasu = study
gorufu o shimasu = play golf
kaimono o shimasu = do the shopping
The final u of these action words is very soft and hardly spoken

Time expressions
nanji ni = at what time
nanyōbi ni = on what day
asa = morning
hiru = midday
yoru = evening
asagohan = breakfast
hirugohan = lunch
yorugohan/bangohan = evening meal

Food and drink
tabemono = food
tōsuto = toast
pan = bread
tamago = eggs
niku = meat
yasai = vegetables
ringo = apples
gohan = rice
nomimono = a drink
ocha = green tea
kōcha = black tea
jūsu = juice
miruku = milk
kōra = cola
mizu = water

Useful objects
zasshi = magazine
manga = comic book
terebi = television
eiga = movie
soshite/sorekara/sore ni = and (then)
goro = about (used when saying times)
daitai = more or less, generally
tokidoki = sometimes

Sample conversation
Scott has come round to the Yamaguchi home to interview Mr. Yamaguchi about his typical day, as part of a Japanese homework project.
Scott: Asa, nanji ni okimasu ka.
Mr Yamaguchi: Daitai, rokuji han goro okimasu.
Scott: Hayai desu ne! Sorekara, asagohan ni nani o tabemasu ka.
Mr Yamaguchi: Sō desu ne. Tōsuto o tabemasu. Sore ni kōhī o nomimasu.
Anne: Shigoto wa nanji kara desu ka.
Mr Yamaguchi: Daitai, hachiji han kara rokuji made desu. Hirugohan wa ichiji kara desu.
Scott: Yoru nani o shimasu ka.
Mr Yamaguchi: Bangohan o tabemasu. Soshite terebi o mimasu. Jūichiji han goro nemasu.
Scott: Nichiyōbi ni nani o shimasu ka.
Mr Yamaguchi: Sō desu ne. Rirakkusu shimasu ne. Zasshi o yomimasu. Tokidoki gorufu o shimasu...
Anne: (laughing) Ē? Daitai ichinichi jū nemasu yo.

Extras
hayai = early
rirakkusu = relax
ē = what?
ichinichi jū = all day

Explanations
1. Action words (masu words)
Japanese "doing" words are very simple to use - you will notice that they all end in masu. This gives the meaning I do or I will do something. For example, the question nichiyōbi ni nani o shimasu ka could have the meaning what do you do on Sundays? or what are you going to do on Sunday? The context will tell you which one is intended.

Also, the masu ending does not change whether you say I/you/he/she/it/we/they do something. For example:
- nichiyōbi ni Sukotto-san wa terebi o mimasu = Scott watches TV on Sundays
- nichiyōbi ni terebi o mimasu = I watch TV on Sundays.

And you dont need to use the words you/I/he, etc. unless it's not clear who is being spoken about. It is then better to use a person's name rather than you. For example:
- nichiyōbi ni nani o shimasu ka = what do (you) do on Sundays?
- Yamaguchi-san, nichiyōbi ni nani o shimasu ka = Mr Yamaguchi, what do you do on Sundays?

- Tokidoki gorufu o shimasu = I sometimes play golf

Shimasu is a useful word meaning do, make or play. Here are some examples of its use:
- tenisu o shimasu = I play tennis
- sakkā o shimasu = I play football
- kaimono o shimasu = I do the shopping
- denwa o shimasu = I make a phone call
- kuji kara jūji made eigo o benkyō shimasu = I study English from nine until ten

When you add tokidoki you are talking about what you do sometimes. For example:
- tokidoki denwa o shimasu = I sometimes make phone calls
- tokidoki tenisu o shimasu = I sometimes play tennis

When you add daitai you are saying generally ... . For example:
- daitai rokuji ni okimasu = I generally get up at six

2. Tōsuto o tabemasu I eat some toast
There is no equivalent in English of the word o, but in Japanese you say it after the item you eat, drink, read, etc. (We call this the object of the sentence.) Here are some examples with the object in italics:
- gohan o tabemasu = I eat rice
- kōcha o nomimasu = I drink black tea
- kaimono o shimasu = I do the shopping

You should note that the masu word always comes at the end of the sentence.

3. Yamaguchi-san wa kōhī o nomimasu Mr Yamaguchi drinks coffee
When you mention the person who eats, drinks, etc., this word is followed by wa and is the subject of the sentence. Remember that wa acts like a highlighter and can be translated as as for... . Here are some examples with the subject in italics:
- An-san wa nihongo no hon o yomimasu = Anne reads a Japanese book
- watashi wa nihongo o benkyō shimasu = I study Japanese
- Sukotto-san wa kaimono o shimasu = Scott is going to do the shopping

You should note the order in which you say these sentences.
1 - you say the person who does the action, followed by wa.
2 - you say the item (or person) which has the action done to it, followed by o.
3 - you say the action word - the masu word.

CODE
An-san wa hon o yomimasu
1 (subject) 2 (object) 3 (verb)


4. Nichi yōbi ni nani o shimasu ka What do you do on Sundays?
When you say the day or time that you do something, it is followed by ni meaning on or at. For example:
- nichiyōbi ni terebi o mimasu = I watch TV on Sundays
- hachiji ni okimasu = I get up at 8 o'clock

You can replace ni with goro (about) if you want to give an approximate time. For example:
- hachiji goro okimasu = I get up at about 8 o'clock

The important point to remember is that ni and goro are said after the time/day.

The time expression is usually said at this point in a sentence:
- An-san wa hachiji kara terebi o mimasu = Anne watches TV from 8 o'clock
- Hachiji ni asagohan o tabemasu = I eat breakfast at 8 o'clock
- Rokuji ni okimasu = I get up at 6 o'clock

5. Nanji ni At what time
To ask when somebody does something you can use nanji ni (at what time):
- nanji ni okimasu ka = (at) what time do you get up?

Or nanyōbi ni (on what day):
- nanyōbi ni gorufu o shimasu ka = (on) what day/s do you play golf?

Or nannichi ni (on what date/days of the month):
- nannichi ni sakkā o shimasu ka = on what date are you going to play football?

Or the more general question itsu (when):
- itsu kaimono o shimasu ka = when do you do the shopping?

You do not need to say ni after itsu because you are not saying in, on or at:
- itsu sakkā o shimasu ka = when are you going to play football? (not: on when are you going to play football?)

6. Bangohan o tabemasu I eat dinner
The words for the three main meals in Japanese are interesting. THey are made up of the word for rice (gohan) and the words for morning (asa), midday (hiru) and evening (ban - as in konbanwa, good evening; also yoru). Therefore, asagohan (breakfast) literally means morning rice, hirugohan (lunch) is midday rice, and bangohan or yorugohan (dinner/evening meal) is evening rice.

7. Asa nanji ni okimasu ka What time do you get up in the morning?
In previous lessons we learnt gozen (a.m.) and gogo (p.m./afternoon). A more informal way of saying this is to use asa (morning) and yoru (evening). For example:
- asa shichiji ni okimasu = I get up at 8 o'clock in the morning
- yoru terebi o mimasu = I watch TV in the evenings

You should note that you dont need ni after asa and yoru. Ni is only used with exact times, days and dates. More of this will be learnt in the next lesson.

8. Asagohan ni nani o tabemasu ka What do you eat for breakfast?
To ask what someone eats at mealtimes, use ni (in this case meaning for) after the meal word. For example:
- bangohan ni nani o tabemasu ka = what do you eat for dinner?

To answer, just say the food that you eat.
- tamago o tabemasu = I eat eggs

If you want to include what you drink, use one of the and words (sore ni, soshite, sorekara). You say these at the beginning of a new sentence. For example:
- tamago o tabemasu. sore ni kōhī o nomimasu = I eat eggs. And I drink coffee

To make a statement about what you have for breakfast (etc.), start with: asagohan ni ... . For example:
- asagohan ni tamago o tabemasu = I eat eggs for breakfast

9. The days of the week
Note that all the days of the week end with yōbi, meaning day.

nichiyōbi = sunday
getsuyōbi = monday
kayōbi = tuesday
suiyōbi = wednesday
mokuyōbi = thursday
kinyōbi = friday
doyōbi = saturday

--------------------------------------------

LESSON 11 PRACTISE - click me!

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 28 2005, 09:38 AM
Mudmaniac
post Dec 27 2005, 08:23 PM

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QUOTE(Mudmaniac @ Dec 24 2005, 09:20 AM)
俺の古い教科書から見たい。

自分で作ったのか?
*
QUOTE(jhcj @ Dec 26 2005, 10:05 AM)
Wah, I dont understand!

>.<'''''

I cant read kanji. T_T
*
ore no furui kyoukasho mitai.

jibun de tsukutta no ka?
TSjhcj
post Dec 28 2005, 09:17 AM

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QUOTE(Mudmaniac @ Dec 27 2005, 08:23 PM)
ore no furui kyoukasho mitai.

jibun de tsukutta no ka?
*
I'm not really sure if my translation is correct. Did you ask me if I made the lessons up myself or did I take it from an old textbook? sweat.gif
TSjhcj
post Dec 28 2005, 09:37 AM

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LESSON 11 - PRACTISE

1. Say what each of the people below have for their breakfast in Japanese. The first one is done for you as an example.
a. Mr. Yamaguchi = toast, coffee
Yamaguchi-san wa asagohan ni tōsuto o tabemasu. Sore ni kōhī o nomimasu.

b. Scott = toast, coffee
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c. Anne = eggs, black tea
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d. Reiko = rice, green tea
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e. Heidi = fruit, juice
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2. Anne has been writing up an interview with Emi. These are the answers to her questions. Can you write out the questions in full, in Japanese?
a. What time? Hachiji ni okimasu.
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b. What? Asagohan ni tōsuto to tamago o tabemasu.
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c. What day? Doyōbi ni kaimono o shimasu.
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d. What? Yoru tokidoki eiga o mimasu.
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e. When? Getsuyōbi kara kinyōbi made benkyō shimasu.
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3. Say these days in Japanese.
a. Friday
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b. Monday
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c. Thursday
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d. Tuesday
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This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 28 2005, 09:40 AM
Mudmaniac
post Dec 29 2005, 11:35 PM

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i said

it looks like my old textbook.

did you make it yourself?

and thats not a bad thing mind you.....
SetaNoriyasu
post Dec 30 2005, 12:56 AM

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QUOTE(jhcj @ Dec 2 2005, 03:14 PM)

- kompyūta = computer

*
Actually, the more regular term used for computer is 'persocom(p)' which, is an abbreviation of 'personal computer'. Go figure...
Dark Steno
post Dec 30 2005, 01:42 AM

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QUOTE(SetaNoriyasu @ Dec 30 2005, 12:56 AM)
Actually, the more regular term used for computer is 'persocom(p)' which, is an abbreviation of 'personal computer'. Go figure...
*
You're right. They prefer to use that term.
TSjhcj
post Dec 30 2005, 10:16 AM

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QUOTE(Mudmaniac @ Dec 29 2005, 11:35 PM)
i said

it looks like my old textbook.

did you make it yourself?

and thats not a bad thing mind you.....
*
Ah, close. laugh.gif

No, I didnt make the lessons up. I took them from a book, actually. One that I'm reading, in fact. smile.gif

QUOTE(SetaNoriyasu @ Dec 30 2005, 12:56 AM)
Actually, the more regular term used for computer is 'persocom(p)' which, is an abbreviation of 'personal computer'. Go figure...
*
O.o'''

I thought persocom is something that was made up in Chobits. sweat.gif

Anyways, thanks for the info. laugh.gif
miloy2k
post Dec 30 2005, 12:37 PM

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most of teh time... teh Jap mix english wif japanese laugh.gif
Dark Steno
post Dec 30 2005, 12:48 PM

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QUOTE(jhcj @ Dec 30 2005, 10:16 AM)
O.o'''

I thought persocom is something that was made up in Chobits. sweat.gif

Anyways, thanks for the info. laugh.gif
*
laugh.gif Most people will think like that. I thought like that at first when watching Chobits but later on, I found that Japanese does call their computers as Persocom (especially Windows as for Apple computers, they call it MAC).
Mudmaniac
post Dec 31 2005, 12:41 AM

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unrelated Japanese fact!!

Japanese kids usually have less exposure to computers. most of their email and internet is thru handphones. gaming thru consoles like PS2 and GC.

Japanese that use Persocon's are usually otaku recluses. Most are usually over 20 years old.

This attributes to the sheer lack of regulation of adult content on japanese computer games, while console games have to comply to a "CERO" rating system.


SetaNoriyasu
post Dec 31 2005, 01:00 AM

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well, it generally depends on who you're talking to, I doubt it's only anime-otaku who use the term since there have been references when I speak to my friends who are Japanese and have PR's here
xpresside
post Jan 3 2006, 03:39 AM

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hm...somthing is wrong
it's koNpyuta not kompyuta. pasokoNeuroeuronot pasokom.

chewxy
post Jan 3 2006, 12:35 PM

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Just a link for you guys :

http://www.tbns.net/knuckles/

Read carefully
Dark Steno
post Jan 3 2006, 01:32 PM

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QUOTE(xpresside @ Jan 3 2006, 03:39 AM)
hm...somthing is wrong
it's koNpyuta not kompyuta. pasokoNeuroeuronot pasokom.
*
Usually, the n that ended before letters like b, p, m and few others, the n became m. For example, senpai where sometimes it becomes as sempai.

For pasokom, the original word is personal computer then becomes persocom (in English way). When persocom became Japanization, it becomes pasokon but persocom ended with an M. So, pasokon becomes pasokom.

How about CAPCOM? Dont you think that they supposed to say it as Kapukom? laugh.gif Sounds funny.
SetaNoriyasu