I'm planning on preparing basic japanese lessons by adapting them from a book that I'm reading. Hopefully, this'll be carried out on a "3 days a week" basis, although I cant promise much in case I'm busy. To start it of, we shall first look at the basics of the japanese language.

Try to keep spam to a minimum here, so that reading through the thread is easier. And while it is good to be able to learn hiragana, katakana and kanji, everything here will be romanji, cause I figured it'd be easier that way for the casual reader. Of course, those who are capable of reading japanese can feel free to contribute with japanese text for everyone's benefit, and also to correct me if I made any mistakes.

LESSON 1
Pronounciation guide
The japanese alphabet is made up of sounds created by mixing the 5 vowels (a, e, i, o, u) with a consonant (letters which are not vowels). While it is quite easy to pronounce most words, sometimes special care is taken when dealing with certain elements. These are a) long syllables, B) the letter n, c) double consonants, d) silent vowels and e) pronounciation of non-japanese words. I will cover each of these in order.

a) Long syllables
Whenever the - symbol is written above a particular vowel, it indicates that the sound is a long sound. An example of this is the word Tōkyō, which when spoken sounds like to-o-kyo-o. In other words, you hold the sound for twice the normal length.

B) The letter "n"
In the japanese language, the letter "n" is a syllable by itself. For example, konnichiwa (hello) is spoken as ko-n-ni-chi-wa and not ko-ni-chi-wa or kon-ni-chi-wa. Also, when n is followed by p, b or m, its sound softens to a "m" sound. For example, ganbatte (good luck) is spoken as gambatte, and sanpaku (three nights) is spoken as sampaku.

Where n is followed by a vowel, an apostrophe (') is used to distinguish the sound "n" from the sounds na, ni, nu, ne and no. For example, ten'in (shopkeeper) is pronounced as te-n-i-n and not te-ni-n.

c) Double consonants
A double consonant indicates that you should pause slightly before saying it, as you would in the english words headdress (pause after the hea- not head dress) and bookcase (pause after boo). In japanese, these are the double consonants that are usually encountered: -kk, ss, tt, tc, pp. For example, the words gambatte (good luck), hokkaido (north island of japan), massugu (straight on).

d) Silent vowels
Sometimes, the vowels i and u are silent and almost unvoiced. This will be indicated as brackets around the vowel. For example, des(u) (it is) is almost always pronounced as des, s(u)ki as s-ki, and ikimas(u) as ikimas.

e) Pronounciation of non-japanese words
Foreign words often have to be adapted to the japanese sound system. For example: Sukotto - Scott, Furansu - France, Satchā - Thatcher, etc. There is no th sound in japanese, so s is used instead (just as b is used to replace v e.g. Ba-ra-ri-i for Valerie.

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Links to other lessons:
LESSON 2: How to pronounce syllables, here
LESSON 3: Hajimemashite - how do you do?, here
LESSON 4: Marēshia-jin desu - I'm Malaysian, here
LESSON 5: O-shigoto wa nan desu ka - what is your occupation?, here
LESSON 6: Sūji - numbers (Part 1), here
LESSON 7: Kazoku wa gonin desu = there are five people in my family, here
LESSON 8: Ima nanji desu ka = what time is it now?, here
LESSON 9: Ikura desu ka = how much is it?, here
LESSON 10: Yūbinkyoku wa doko desu ka = where is the post office?, here
LESSON 11: Nichiyōbi ni nani o shimasu ka = what do you do on Sundays?, here
LESSON 12: Pāti o shimashō = let's have a party!, here
LESSON 13: Sūji - numbers (Part 2), here
LESSON 14: Senshū Kyōto ni ikimashita = last week I went to Kyoto, here
LESSON 15: Ii o-tenki desu ne = it's nice weather, isn't it?, here
LESSON 16: Supōtsu wa tenisu ga suki desu = the sport I like is tennis, here
LESSON 17a: Kaimono = shopping, here
LESSON 17b: Kaimono = shopping, here
LESSON 18: Bīru o ippon kudasai = a bottle of beer, please, here
LESSON 19: O-kane = money, here
LESSON 20: Yoyaku shitai desu = I want to make a reservation, here
LESSON 21: Asobi ni kite kudasai = please come and visit, here

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Places offering Japanese language classes in Malaysia
Japan Foundation Kuala Lumpur's directory: here (Contributed by boringpig)

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Useful links to other Japanese self-study websites
ECIS (an audio and video progamme): here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
Free Japanese Lessons: here (Contributed by netfan)
Japanese-Online.com: here (Contributed by netfan)
Learn Japanese Online: here (Contributed by netfan)
Meguro Language Center (Tokyo) Free Study Materials: here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
mic-J Audio Visual Resources for Japanese Instruction: here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
NHK World Japanese Lessons: here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
Nihongo.3Yen.com: here
Nihongo o oshiete: here
Real World Japanese: here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
TheJapanesePage.com: here

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Online resources e.g. dictionaries, etc.
Free Japanese Dictionary: here (Contributed by xxboxx)
Improve your kanji: here (Contributed by oe_kintaro)
Japanese-English Learner's Dictionary: here (Contributed by Zeten)
Japanese<->English Dictionary: here
Kanji Converter: here (Contributed by shinchan^^)

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Online proficiency tests
English-Japanese Vocabulary Quizzes: here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
Internet Japanese test: here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
Sample questions for JLPT (Level 1-4): here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
Some review questions: here (Contributed by aburex)

----------------------------------------------
Downloads
Head on over to Gmail and use the following information to access some e-books.

Username: japlesson
Password: japlesson123

So far the following e-books are uploaded:
1. Japanese for Busy People - Kana Workbook
2. Lets Learn Japanese Basic 1 - Volume 1
3. Lets Learn Japanese Basic 1 - Volume 2
4. Lets Learn Japanese Basic 1 - Volume 3
5. JLPT 1991-1999 Level 1 Test Papers (Contributed by ninjamerah)
6. JLPT 1991-1999 Level 2 Test Papers (Contributed by ninjamerah)
7. JLPT 1991-1999 Level 3 Test Papers (Contributed by ninjamerah)
8. JLPT 1991-1999 Level 4 Test Papers (Contributed by ninjamerah)
9. 1000 Kanji

PLEASE PLEASE do not misuse this email address. Just get the files you need, and dont do anything else. Thanks!
Files have been deleted by an unknown person(s).

Special download!
Declan's Flashcard software for learning Kanji. Download here! Many thanks to Dark Steno for the file hosting!

----------------------------------------------
Video Lessons! (DEFINITELY not 56k friendly )
Streaming videos of japanese lessons hosted at www.youtube.com. These videos go hand in hand with the Let's Learn Japanese Basic 1 series of e-books which you can get from the Gmail account above.

If you want to view the videos, my advice is that you allow the videos to load, read up the appropriate chapter (print them out if possible), and use the readings as a guide when you watch the videos. It'll really help!

All videos have been removed by Youtube.com

----------------------------------------------
Tips (Contributed by netfan)
Try searching for and entering Japanese chat rooms on MSN or Yahoo that offer Japanese lessons, or have native japanese who are willing to practise with you. But er...no hanky panky ok?

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Learn hiragana,katakana and kanji (Contributed by shinmei88)
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...&#entry18040984
(edited by HMMaster)

This post has been edited by jhcj: Sep 14 2008, 01:11 AM

Asked on ur bloggie but I'll ask it here anyways

1.I have no idea how to pronounce "n" by itself (ko-n-ni-chi-wa <--whoa woot?) How do you do it? (lol maybe u could pronounce it for me over the weekend)

2.How bout the whole "r" and "l" thingie.Like roku (six?) is spelled tat way but pronounced as "lok" rite?

well...from what I'VE learned:

1. 'n' is prounounced "nnn", basicaly the N without the 'e'. we all say n "enn" what this n is the sanem as how you pronounce n in "name" or "naik".

2. well.....coz they dont have the consonant L in their language, every l is somewhat pronounced "rr"...and true the other way round coz of the way our brain is . and the 'u' int he "roku" is sometimes silent, or bately heard. same as "tsu" and "su" so, roku can be pronounced "roku" or "rok-u" where the 'u' is silent. this 'u' is pronounced something like you say 'u' in "udang" or "udon" or "ular"

lol...i kind of hijacked the thread. sorry jhcj

yo, promoting japanese is the way to go in anime-shrine
to speak japanese, get "Pimsleur's Comprehensive Japanese (Ogg)(complete)" from piratebay. better fast, coz only left 4 seeders.

and if you think you're "yabai" enough, get "Remembering the kanji" from piratebay to learn kanji.

I dont find pronunciation is that hard for Japanese. French and Russian are among the hardest.

i never learnt the pronouncations T.T
just have limited knowledge in that.
and i only have mangas and a dictionary to learn how to read..

Dictionary not enough. I need the bloody kanji cards.

manga got many kanji, but they also have furigana at the side.
amazingly, the 1st kanji that i remembered was "Shi" as in dead, die, or death

I can't read or speak Jap for nuts. (can only say few of those command words,lol)

Yeah but for a guy like, it would take a whole week to decrypt a single chapter.

I buy shounen jump,
and when i started, it took a chapter 3 hours T.T
nowadays can read okay

You done very well

Read below for the syllable pronounciation guide. And yeah, I'll fill you in over the weekend.

Hey nice explanation dude. And nah, you didnt hijack the thread. Thanks for helping!

There are about 2000 kanji in the japanese language, of which 1945 is considered essential. Out of this, 1006 is taught in schools. If you ask me, I'd say...HOLY SH-

LESSON 2
How to pronounce syllables
In the english language, sometimes certain syllables are stressed when you speak. For example, the letter a can vary as follows:

man, mate, mayor.

In contrast, in japanese the letter a is always pronounced as in man. The five japanese vowels in order are:

a as in man
i as in hit
u as in blue
e as in end
o as in hot.

Japanese Sound Chart

The final set of sounds in the sound chart consists of a consonant plus ya, yu or yo. These also have single beats (i.e. they have one syllable), although people sometimes make the mistake of pronouncing them with two beats. For example, sometimes people pronounce the first sound in Kyoto as ki-yo instead of ky�.


This post has been edited by jhcj: Mar 6 2006, 01:50 PM

And because I have alot of free time in the office, I present...Lesson 3! XD

LESSON 3: Hajimemashite = How do you do?

Vocabulary list
Greetings
- ohay� gozaimas(u) = good morning
- konnichiwa = hello; good afternoon (late morning onwards)
- konbanwa = good evening
- oyasumi = good night
- say�nara = goodbye (a formal expression)
- bai bai = goodbye (informal)
- ja mata ne! = see you!
- mata ash(i)ta = see you tomorrow

Introductions
- hajimemash(i)te = how do you do?
- d�zo yorosh(i)ku = pleased to meet you
- kochira wa ...san = this person is ...mr/mrs/miss/ms (addressing someone else)
- d�mo arigat� (gozaimas(u)) = thank you (very much)
- arigat� = thanks
- sumimasen = excuse me; sorry
- hai = yes
- iie = no
- desu = am, is, are

Sample conversation
Reiko Yamaguchi and her son Takeshi are meeting Anne Jenkins at Narita International Airport. Reiko sees an English girl standing on her own...

Reiko: Ano... An Jenkins(u)-san desu ka.
Girl: Iie...
Reiko: (embarassed) A! Sumimasen.
Takeshi: (also embarassed) Ok�san!

Anne is waiting nearby and sees Reiko's sign with her name on it.
Anne: Sumimasen, Yamaguchi-san des(u) ka.
Reiko: Hai, s� des(u)!
Anne: Hajimemash(i)te. An Jenkins(u) des(u). D�zo yorosh(i)ku (she bows).
Reiko: (bowing) Hajimemash(i)te. Yamaguchi Reiko des(u). D�zo yorosh(i)ku.

Reiko then introduces her son to Anne.
Reiko: Kore wa Takeshi des(u). Mus(u)ko des(u).
Takeshi: (bowing) D�zo yorosh(i)ku.
Anne: (bowing) D�zo yorosh(i)ku.

On the way home by train, Takeshi bumps into his friend, Jun. He introduces Anne to Jun.
Takeshi: Konnichiwa!
Jun: Konnichiwa!
Takeshi: Kochira wa An Jenkins(u)-san des(u).
Jun: Hajimemash(i)te. Suzuki Jun des(u). D�zo yorosh(i)ku (bows).

After they've reached their destination...
Takeshi: Ja mata ne!
Jun: Mata ash(i)ta!

Extras
ano = a hesitation word, like erm, er.
ka = indicates a question
ok�san = mother
s� des(u) = that's right
mus(u)ko = (my) son

Explanations
1. An Jenkinsu-san desu ka Are you Miss Anne Jenkins?
The Japanese use san when they address other people. It is attached to the end of the name and can be used with either the surname or first name, although Japanese generally use surnames unless they know the person really well. It is very important to use san when addressing Japanese people, otherwise it would be considered impolite. There are more polite and casual forms of san:
- sama is used when addressing letters and in more formal situations;
- kun is used for young boys and by men who know each other well;
- chan may be used between children or by adults when they adress children;
- teachers and professors have sensei attached to their names.

2. Hajimemashite, Yamaguchi Reiko desu How do you do? I'm Reiko Yamaguchi.
A second point to remember about san is that it is never used when addressing yourself or your own family. Read the conversation to see examples of this e.g. Hajimemashite. Suzuki Jun desu, or Kore wa Takeshi desu.

3. Hajimemashite. An Jenkinsu desu. D�zo yoroshiku How do you do. I am Anne Jenkins. Pleased to meet you.
When you first meet someone you use the formal phrases hajimemashite and d�zo yoroshiku. After you say your name you use desu (I am). The same word is used for you/we/they are and it/she/he is. Also, desu comes at the end of the sentence.

4. Yamaguchi-san desu ka Are you Mrs Yamaguchi
To make a question in Japanese you say ka at the end of the sentence. Think of it as a spoken question mark. When ka is written at the end of a sentence, there is no need to write a question mark as well. For example:
- Yamaguchi-san desu ka = Are you Mrs Yamaguchi?
- T�ky� desu ka = Is it Tokyo?

5. Kochira wa An Jenkinsu-san desu This is Miss Anne Jenkins
To introduce someone else in person you use the phrase kochira wa. For example:
- kochira wa An Jenkinsu-san desu = This is Miss Anne Jenkins.
- kochira wa Yamaguchi Takeshi-san desu = This is Takeshi Yamaguchi.

However, you dont use kochira when introducing members of your own family. Instead, you can use the informal phrase kore (this is) as Reiko does:
- kore wa Takeshi desu = This is Takeshi.

-----------------------------------------------------

PRACTISE FOR LESSON 3 - click me!

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 4 2005, 09:52 AM

wow! jhcj, did you study japanese before?
what does An stands for? like you use for:

He self-studies Japanese,like any other otaku would

Anyways I think the "An" is refering to Anne,Jap way of saying it

so desu ka? now look it over and just realise it.
i also now learning nihongo

Yep, An stands for Anne. And I'm not otaku level...yet. I've always been interested in learning the Japanese language, that's all.

do u all know any play that offer jap. classes?

Feedback from a forumer, allenultra: Isn't hajimemashite only used when u meet a person for the first time? You sure hajimemashite = how do u do? Can be used all the time?

As per number 3 in the Explanation section of Lesson 3, you use the formal phrases hajimemashite and d�zo yoroshiku when you first meet someone. After that, the greetings that you use whenever you meet the same person will vary to some extent depending on the time of the day e.g. konnichiwa, konbanwa, etc. And about the translation, I'm rather sure hajimemashite is roughly translated to "how do you do", and I think that the phrase "hajime" means something like "first time" or "beginning" (I could be wrong lol). Maybe aburex can help here?

Konnichiwa is often translated as hello, but the first thing you would say in the morning is ohay� gozaimasu (good morning) or ohay� to a friend or within the family. In the evening you would say konbanwa (good evening). Konnichiwa is used later in the morning through to early evening.

Thanks for the question allenultra! I aint no pro yet, but I hope this helps!

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 2 2005, 12:22 PM

kore & kochira (polite) has the same meaning though

This thread delivers. Now I can be a 'meeaboo' too. lol.

Yes, same meaning, but different usage depending on the situation.

From lesson 3, explanation 5:
To introduce someone else in person you use the phrase kochira wa. However, you dont use kochira when introducing members of your own family. Instead, you can use the informal phrase kore.

sugoi dess

oh btw, in contructing a sentence in japs, object or subject should begin 1st?

This post has been edited by e-jump: Dec 2 2005, 12:23 PM

I believe that will be covered in future lessons

aiyo...
even though they say it as "dess" ( with the silent u), you still have to spell it as desu liao

Err...I'm not THAT good yet. But I'll cover some of it in Lesson 4 (compiling the information now).

Yep.

Hehe, well if you really want to be proper about it, then yeah, it should be spelt as desu and not des. But then again, asal faham cukuplah.

your link for 2nd and 3rd lesson didn't work correctly. you should put at such:
the last part you should put the post number. example 2nd lesson = 5406900

A sumimasen. Arigat�!

hey nice jhcj
but if you guys seriously want to learn japanese u should go take classes
private classes where they teach u one by one is by far the best , easier & faster for u to learn
trust me, u won't learn perfect japanese through only books

though i heard japanese classes in KL are veri expensive
they could easily go RM1000+ for i think half a semester?
so you could save up some time and money if u learnt the basic already
so good job

and if u do take japanese classes, i suggest u to learn how to write aswell, coz it totally worth it
my teacher say most malay don't learn kanji
chinese got no prob they are used to chinese characters
one note for chinese who think they can read japanese thru kanji is that not only the pronounciations are different but some kanji are also have different meaning
for example 'doctor' in chinese is 医生, in japanese it is 医者

This post has been edited by 320cbr: Dec 2 2005, 02:17 PM

in my opinion asian should have no problems pronouncing in japanese
those westeners are the only ones havin problem - those wapanese

and btw jhjc i think u should write them in full spellings 'desu'

If you guys are serious AND have the money (and time maybe) then take classes.But I don't have tat kinda money,so learnin here should give me erm..basic speech abilities,lol

This post has been edited by ellimist: Dec 2 2005, 02:51 PM

LESSON 4: Marēshia-jin desu = I'm Malaysian

Vocabulary list
Countries
- marēshia = malaysia
- igirisu = england
- amerika = america
- nihon = japan
- chūgoku = china

Languages
- marei-go = malay
- eigo = english
- nihon-go = japanese
- chugoku-go = chinese

Nationalities
- marēshia-jin = malaysian
- igirisu-jin = british
- amerika-jin = american
- nihon-jin = japanese
- chūgoku-jin = chinese

Useful items
- tokei = watch or clock
- hon = book
- empits(u) = pencil
- pen = pen
- kompyūta = computer
- terebi = television <--- the japanese sound system does not have the "v" sound, remember?

Useful phrases
- ... wa nihon-go de nan des(u) ka = what is ... in japanese?
- nan des(u) ka = what is it?
- o-namae wa? = what's your name?
- shitsurei shimas(u) = pardon me for interrupting

Sample conversation
Anne has settled into her new life with the Yamaguchi family, and today is her first day at a Japanese language school. Her teacher, Satō-sensei, is getting all the students to introduce themselves.

Satō-sensei: Mina-san, ohayō gozaimasu.
Class: Sensei, ohayō gozaimasu.
Satō-sensei: Hajimemashite, Satō desu. Watashi wa Nihon-jin desu. Dōzo yoroshiku. (She points to Anne) Hai, dōzo.
Anne: An desu. Watashi wa Igirisu-jin desu. Dōzo yoroshiku.
Next student: Tani desu. Furansu-jin desu. Dōzo yoroshiku.
Student 2: Ano... Haidi desu. Doitsu (Germany) kara desu. Dōzo yoroshiku.
Student 3: Sukotto desu. Ē to, ē to ... America wa nihon-go de nan desu ka.
Satō-sensei: America wa nihon-go de A-me-ri-ka desu.
Scott: (amidst laughter) Aa! so desu ka. Ja, Amerika kara desu. Dōzo yoroshiku.

A new student arrives late...
New student: Shitsurei shimasu. (he bows)
Scott: O-namae wa?
New student: Han desu. Chūgoku-jin desu.
Anne: (looks puzzled) Chūgoku wa eigo de nan desu ka.
Han: China desu.

Satō-sensei now proceeds to check how many everyday objects the students know.
Satō-sensei: (points to her watch) Kore wa nihon-go de nan desu ka.
Han: Tokei desu.
Scott: (looking at watch) Nihon no tokei desu.
Satō-sensei: So desu. (picks up Anne's coat) Kore wa nan desu ka.
Tani: Kōto desu.
Scott: (showing off a bit) Igirisu no kōto desu.
Anne: Iie, sukottorando (Scotland) no kōto desu yo.

Extras
mina-san = everybody
watashi wa = i
hai, dōzo = go ahead; there you are
kara = from
ē to = another hesitation word (er, erm)
kore wa = this
yo = i tell you, actually

Explanations
1. Watashi wa Nihon-jin desu I'm Japanese.
Watashi means I and anata means you. There are other words for he/she/we/etc., but the Japanese tend not to use them unless it needs to be made clear who is being talked about. Boku is often used by males instead of watashi. In contrast, atashi is the form often used by females (both of these are more casual forms). Ore is least polite, and can be used by both males or females. - contributed by 320cbr.

When addressing other people it is more polite to use their names instead of anata, and unless you need to emphasize I, there is no need to say watashi/boku.

Wa is used after a word to show that that word is the 'topic' (subject) of whatever is being talked about. It can sometimes be translated as as for in English:
- Watashi wa Amerika-jin desu = I (subject) am American. (As for me, I am American)
- Haidi-san wa Doitsu kara desu = Heidi (subject) is from Germany (As for Heidi, she comes from Germany)

2. O-namae wa? What's your name?
In point 1 it is already mentioned that it is more polite to use people's names when addressing them istead of using anata (you). The japanese language has other ways of avoiding the use of anata. One of these is the use of "o" in front of certain words to make them sound more polite or formal when addressing other people. However, you dont use it to talk about yourself or your family members. Here are some examples:
- o-namae = your name
- namae = (my) name
- o-shigoto = your job
- shigoto = (my) job

3. Doitsu kara desu I'm from Germany.
Kara means from and follows the word, unlike English where we say from first. For example:
- Tōkyō kara = from Tokyo
- Furansu kara = from France
- (watashi wa) Igirisu kara desu = i'm from England
- kono uisuki wa Sukottorando kara desu = this whisky is from Scotland

4. Nihon no tokei desu It's a Japanese watch
The word no, when inserted between two words works something like 's in English:
- An-san no kōto = Anne's coat
- sensei no tēpu = the teacher's tape

It also gives meaning of my, your, etc. For example:
- watashi no tokei = my watch
- anata no hon = your book

It connects an item with its owner, origin or language:
- Igirisu no kōto = an English coat (a coat of/from England)
- Doitsu-go no hon = a German (language) book

5. Nihon-go de nan desu ka What is it in Japanese?
A very useful phrase to learn when wanting to improve your Japanese vocabulary. Also, if you dont understand much Japanese you can always say:
- Eigo de nan desu ka = What is it in English?

If you want to specify an object, place it in front of the sentence followed by wa. For example:
- Book wa nihon-go de nan desu ka = What is book in Japanese? (As for book, what is it in Japanese)
- Tokei wa eigo de nan desu ka = What is tokei in English?

--------------------------------------------

LESSON 4 PRACTISE - click me!

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 21 2005, 11:11 AM

I'm not saying this is the best way to learn Japanese. Heck, I'd love to pick up Kanji (I can already recognise hiragana, working on Katakana now), but these lessons should at least get me speaking japanese decently after a while. Anyways, thanks for the feedback.

I thought I was? O_o'''

Yeah, that's what these lessons are about - basic speech abilities lol.

Found the term used for "malay" as in "malay language". It SHOULD be correct, I think.

I hope.



Here's what I found:
マレーシア = marēshia = malaysia
マレイ (n,adj) = marei = malay

Edited lesson 4's post to reflect this find. If I'm wrong, please PM me and let me know so that i can make the necessary corrections!

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 2 2005, 03:37 PM

i w a t c h t o o m u c h a n i m e >_<
its amazing that i can roughly understand the dialogues w/o seeing the actual TL ..
yey...

so kids, watch anime back to back for a day, u sure can cath up fast


u guys win several internets for these stuffs

wat i meant was write it in normal ro-maji
'enpitsu' not enpits(u)

i think it is マレー not マレイ
as in マレー語 mareego, malay language
and malaysian is マレー人 (mare-jin)

and maybe u want to write the example dailogues together with kana too

This post has been edited by 320cbr: Dec 2 2005, 04:13 PM

oh note that the topic marker particle, 'wa'
is written as は(ha)
私は日本人です。
watashi wa nihon jin desu

and more on watashi
watakushi or watashi (same kanji : 私) is polite
unpolite one for male is boku
while female use atashi
i think the least polite is ore

Regarding the romanji, I write like that in the "Vocabulary" section to give the readers a feel of how to pronounce those words. If you notice, I take away the brackets in the "Conversation" section.

I'll check with my gf's Japanese friends regarding the pronounciation and written form of Malaysia and Malay. For now, I'd say both yours and mine sound plausible.

Thanks for the extra feedback! Yeah, i do know that the particle 'wa' is written as は. Like I said, I didnt want to include any hiragana/katana/kanji so as to make these lessons easy to understand for others. Perhaps you can contribute these parts as feedback? I know I'd love that! Thanks again!

あれは違うと思います。

「malaysian」 は マレーシア人
「malay」はマレー人

o.O what Japanese frens?

er yea they're the same
but when he said malay he meant malay language

HOLY CRAP. I cant read kanji! T_T Although i can make out what the hiragana means.

Translate pls!

Er...she's in the states remember? There are japanese students there as well you know. >_>

I wrote:
"I think that's wrong.
malaysian is mare-shia jin
malay is mare-jin"

Ah I see, well I wrote marēshia-jin with referrence to malaysians, not malays.

The one that I'm not sure of now is malay language, as in bahasa melayu. Is it marē-go (マレー語) or marei-go (マレイ語)?

Oh crap, time to head home. Continued tomorrow! Try to keep spam to a minimum ok?

Ja mata ashita!

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 2 2005, 04:49 PM

in this case when katakana is used, the chouon (長音) or long sound is represented by the -

I asked this question before but nobody is helping me in kpt

How to use the word benkyo ... ? Is it study? books? or ?

Thanks

And another phrase ... Something sounds like go ki gen yo ... Does it mean good day or have a nice day?

This post has been edited by Geminist: Dec 2 2005, 09:23 PM

benkyou <-- note the long sound
the kanji is 勉強 <---- for those of you who are chinese-educated who think they can ace the kanji in a japanese exam without preparation....this is probably the first kanji that you learn that will make you realise that it is not as easy as you think.... *

benkyou is a noun denoting study

the verbal form is benkyou suru　（ 勉強する）, or, to study. This is considered a group III verb IIRC

*apparently the chinese meaning of the kanji is to struggle or something like that

benkyo is study .. books is hon .. i think

gokigenyo .. obviously you got this from marimite

i think it's just a formal (and feminine ?) way of saying good day to someone you respect .. but i think it can mean both good day and have a nice day ..

Formal way. Usually used by upperclass person.

Malaysian (マレーシア人)
Malay　（マレー人）
Malay language　（マレー語）

sometimes japanese uses （マレイ） or （マレィ） instead of （マレー）..
it's still the same anyway..

I hav question
in wat situation do u use 勉強する?
coz usually I see 勉強をします
so they dont use を with する?

A so desu ka. Well then, I'll just leave my explanation intact then, since both are correct.

勉強する = benkyō suru
勉強をします = benkyō o shimasu
There, translated for the benefit of everyone else. Hiragana ftw!

Err...all I know is that を is an object particle, and it marks the object of the sentence. It is pronounced as o when written after the object.

E.g. sushi o tabemashita = i ate sushi

Is the word benkyō (勉強) an object?

p/s: This sure is getting complicated! Casual readers, hang in there!

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 3 2005, 01:42 AM

In Germans, the phrase Ach so? has same usage as Sou desu ka? in Japanese.

Ach so desu ka...

yea, benkyou(勉強) is a noun,
same thing as sentaku wo shimashita (洗濯をしました。)

so i'm guessing with the wo and shimasu it sounds more 'complete'?
勉強する is when u say it to like, friends?
is this right?

This post has been edited by 320cbr: Dec 3 2005, 02:22 AM

Oh ... Thanks .... Really grateful for all the guidance ...

*and yea, the phrase is from marimate ... (you caught me)

1) So to say I'm studying now (meaning something like I'm reading a book now) ... Is it "Ima benkyo desu" ... Correct?

2) How about "I am studying in xxxxx now" ...? How do you say that?

3) By the way, tabe is eat right ... ? How do I say "Let's go eat now guys" ... ? (Can I say it as "Ima iso tabe o, mina!"

4) Is it okay if I ask for someone's name this way? "Anata no namai wa ...?" (<-is it formal or informal?)

Thanks again for you guys help

*Forgive me if my typing sounds silly ... haha ...

from jhcj lesson4, asking name is "O-namae wa?". japanese has a tendency to not use the word "anata" or "watashi" and expect the listener to understand it. so in this case the"O" already represent as "anata"

watashi wa nihongo ga mada jo_te ja_arimasen.
ja_mata.

This post has been edited by xxboxx: Dec 3 2005, 07:38 AM

wah..dunno here can learn some japanese.. can i join?? keep the good work everyone gan ba teh

hm, i guess i'll answer this

1) 'I am studying now' should be watashi wa ima benkyou wo shite imasu(私は今勉強をしています。)
I am reading a book would be ima hon wo yonde imasu（今本を読んでいます。）


2) 'i am studying in xxx right now', watashi wa ima XXX ni benkyou wo shite imasu（私は今XXXに勉強をしています。）
hmm i maybe wrong here do i use に or で?


3) 'let's go eat' would be, tabemashou （食べましょう）
though I'm not really sure when u say minna
wat i came up with :
minna, issho ni tabemashou ka?(みんな、一緒に食べましょうか？）
"everybody, lets go eat together?", sounds different

i guess i need some help here

This post has been edited by 320cbr: Dec 3 2005, 12:27 PM

この際は「で」を使ってください。
when you are in a place/location, use 「に」
例：私は今教室にいます。

when you are doing something at a place, use 「で」
例：工場で働いています。

this thread proves to be helpful *takes notes*

watashi wa nihongo ga mada jo_te ja_arimasen.

xxboxx.. it should be ' jyou zu ' not jyo te..

thnx for clearing that up senpai

This post has been edited by 320cbr: Dec 3 2005, 03:00 PM

i don't know the romanji for it, just shoot only
btw, i got it from online dictionary, it's either jo_shu, jo_te, jo_zu.
and seem jo_te sounds at most similiar. but it didn't got "jyou zu" like you said?

English>Romanji>English Dictionary
very good for beginner to find some words.

oe_kintaro, if it's possible, could you type out the romanji for all your sentences as well? It would be a BIG help to those who cant read kanji, like me for instance.

hey, i think it would be much fun, and easier to memorize if there's some test for each lesson. so everyone that learning it could test if they remember it or not.

here's some test from lesson 3 that i make up:

1. how to greets good morning politely?


2. what is "ja mata ne"?


3. what do you say when someone say "D�zo yorosh(i)ku" to you?


4. how do you say " no, i'm sorry"?


5. you thought the girl standing there is your friend, reiko. how do you ask her?


6. continuing from no.5, how does reiko respond to you?


some sifu's here who already good with nihongo could also put some test for us to try out.

haha cool xxboxx,plus ur makin use of those spoiler tags

haha, well i'm quickly get bored if only reading the same thing over and over again. by trying to answer question makes it more interesting. and the spoiler tag is really a cool function for question-answer type.

I will try, but no guarantees
besides, there are many ways to read unknown kanji on a PC
http://www.rikai.com is one of them.

my advice to those aspiring to learn a decent amount of japanese:
LOSE THE ROMAJI ASAP.... they don't give you a real feel for the words and there's too much ambiguity when it is used, as firstly, many japanese words already sound the same, and secondly, romanizing the words makes it worse: e.g., when you type "genin", do you really mean げにん「下人」(low-ranked person) ？or げんいん「原因」？(cause/source)?
Furthermore, everyone here seems to be using different romanization systems, which further adds to the confusion: e.g., jo and jyo are actually the same thing. jou and j� and jo- (conventions for writing long sound) also add to the confusion.

If you take formal classes, most teachers expect you to lose the romaji within the first 2-3 weeks anyway...

Besides, has anyone here tried to sing japanese karaoke using romaji? I can tell you it's a real b*tch to keep up with the words, and your phrasing will go out of sync

Excellent use of the spoiler tags!! Why didnt I think of that sooner!

Well, I understand that to get far when learning Japanese, you should lose the romanji, but I'm sure many here are just casual readers who are just taking this lightly. Personally, I do wish to learn kanji, but in good time. But I gotta start somewhere right? And I guess if you put romanji together with the kanji that you type, that'll help me learn just as fast, no? Rather than me cross-referencing with a Japanese kanji dictionary every other word cause I dont know how to read chinese characters.

And as for the different romanization systems, well, I cant help it if that happens. But I'll use the system that I lined out in the first post e.g. using the micron (-) symbol above the vowel to signify long vowel sounds. In the case of your example (genin), using the system I outlined in the first post, げにん「下人」would be written as genin while げんいん「原因」 would be written as gen'in.

Thanks for your feedback!

[edit] Added several useful links to the first post. Also added links to practises after end of each lesson (lesson 3 onwards).

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 4 2005, 10:29 AM

Adapted from xxboxx's post,
LESSON 3 - Practise
1. How do you greet someone first thing in the morning?


2. How do you greet someone in the evening?


3. When do you use the greeting "Konnichiwa"?


4. After talking to a friend, both of you decide to head back home. Your friend says "Ja mata ne!" (See you!). How do you respond by saying "See you tomorrow!" in Japanese?


5. How do you say "No, I'm sorry" in Japanese?


6. You see a girl standing alone. You think she's your friend Reiko, but you have no idea how she looks like. How do you approach to ask her? (English: Excuse me, are you Reiko?)


7. From question 6, assuming you are Reiko, how do you respond? (English: Yes, that's right)


8. You are out with Reiko, and you bump into another friend. How do you introduce Reiko to your friend? (English: This person is Reiko)


9. Translate this sentence into English: Hajimemashite, watashi wa Kanae desu. Dozō yoroshiku!


10. Decide whether the suffix -san should be used in the sentences below.
a. Hajimemashite, An Jenkinsu ____ desu.
b. Kochira wa Yamaguchi Reiko ____ desu.
c. Kochira wa Suzuki _____ desu ka.
d. Sumimasen, Yamaguchi _____ desu ka.


This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 4 2005, 10:33 AM

LESSON 4 - Practise
1. How would you say these phrases in Japanese?
a. What is 'hat' in Japanese?


b. Pardon me for interrupting (when entering a room).


c. I am Malaysian.


d. This is a Japanese language book.


2. Translate this into English: Anata wa Igirisu kara desu ka.


3. You are talking to a Malaysian-born Japanese, Sakura. Another friend Kanae then says to you "Ano, Sakura-san wa Nihon kara desu ka". What did she say? How do you respond?


This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 4 2005, 10:16 AM

it's already challenging to learn the word, but to know the kanji letter as well?
how many letter are there to learn kanji/kana? beside, to know the letter you should also know how to write them. and tutorial how to write is not easy, you should know which line to draw first, and etc.
i think better follow how a child was taught. first parents teach how to speak, then later on only learn how to write when entering kindergarten.

i fail on the no.8 test. need to memorize better

ya u hav to know the strokes order
in this case u need someone to teach u
u can also ask some of your chinese friends
i know my friends helped me quite a lot

stroke order is important if you want to take the kanji test (aka the kanji kentei or nihon kanji nouryoku kentei shiken)

In such a case, don't put too much faith in your chinese friends' ability to write kanji...the stroke order, can be quite different at times and there are subtle differences in stroke length

otherwise, just remembering what a kanji looks like (and sounds) is good enough for the normal nouryoku shiken (but naturally, knowing how to write it is one way )

also, some of my chinese-ed friends tell me that some of younger generation are growing up using only jian ti (simplified PRC style characters) without knowing how to write or read fan ti (complicated/traditional taiwan style characters). I dnno how true this is, but if you had a friend like this it probably won't be of much help either

This post has been edited by oe_kintaro: Dec 4 2005, 03:49 PM

tell me about. I'm still facing the same problem too. A common weakness of the malaysian style of japanese instruction is an over reliance on students' prior knowledge of written mandarin. This puts people like me (I don't know mandarin) at a significant disadvantage.
it just means we have to work harder.



kana: 50 x 2 IINM.
kanji: up to 2000 if you are aiming for lvl 1 (pre-university level)

correction: passing level 1 of the nouryoku shiken means having a proficiency equivalent to a high school graduate

unlike children, we already know our ABCs and how to write english/bahasa. there is a tendency to use that as a reference in learning japanese. unfortunately it too easily becomes a crutch that is debilitating to one's further progress. that is why teachers of the language eschew the usage of romaji.

* do note that my POV is probably only valid for those who are not casual learners. I do acknowledge that some readers aren't really serious about this anyway, so some of the finer points may not apply.

This post has been edited by oe_kintaro: Dec 4 2005, 04:19 PM