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General LEARNING JAPANESE!, LEARNING JAPANESE!!

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TSjhcj
post Nov 30 2005, 04:26 PM, updated 18y ago

TK 20682
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I'm planning on preparing basic japanese lessons by adapting them from a book that I'm reading. Hopefully, this'll be carried out on a "3 days a week" basis, although I cant promise much in case I'm busy. To start it of, we shall first look at the basics of the japanese language.

Try to keep spam to a minimum here, so that reading through the thread is easier. And while it is good to be able to learn hiragana, katakana and kanji, everything here will be romanji, cause I figured it'd be easier that way for the casual reader. Of course, those who are capable of reading japanese can feel free to contribute with japanese text for everyone's benefit, and also to correct me if I made any mistakes. sweat.gif

LESSON 1
Pronounciation guide
The japanese alphabet is made up of sounds created by mixing the 5 vowels (a, e, i, o, u) with a consonant (letters which are not vowels). While it is quite easy to pronounce most words, sometimes special care is taken when dealing with certain elements. These are a) long syllables, B) the letter n, c) double consonants, d) silent vowels and e) pronounciation of non-japanese words. I will cover each of these in order.

a) Long syllables
Whenever the - symbol is written above a particular vowel, it indicates that the sound is a long sound. An example of this is the word Tōkyō, which when spoken sounds like to-o-kyo-o. In other words, you hold the sound for twice the normal length.

B) The letter "n"
In the japanese language, the letter "n" is a syllable by itself. For example, konnichiwa (hello) is spoken as ko-n-ni-chi-wa and not ko-ni-chi-wa or kon-ni-chi-wa. Also, when n is followed by p, b or m, its sound softens to a "m" sound. For example, ganbatte (good luck) is spoken as gambatte, and sanpaku (three nights) is spoken as sampaku.

Where n is followed by a vowel, an apostrophe (') is used to distinguish the sound "n" from the sounds na, ni, nu, ne and no. For example, ten'in (shopkeeper) is pronounced as te-n-i-n and not te-ni-n.

c) Double consonants
A double consonant indicates that you should pause slightly before saying it, as you would in the english words headdress (pause after the hea- not head dress) and bookcase (pause after boo). In japanese, these are the double consonants that are usually encountered: -kk, ss, tt, tc, pp. For example, the words gambatte (good luck), hokkaido (north island of japan), massugu (straight on).

d) Silent vowels
Sometimes, the vowels i and u are silent and almost unvoiced. This will be indicated as brackets around the vowel. For example, des(u) (it is) is almost always pronounced as des, s(u)ki as s-ki, and ikimas(u) as ikimas.

e) Pronounciation of non-japanese words
Foreign words often have to be adapted to the japanese sound system. For example: Sukotto - Scott, Furansu - France, Satchā - Thatcher, etc. There is no th sound in japanese, so s is used instead (just as b is used to replace v e.g. Ba-ra-ri-i for Valerie.

----------------------------------------------
Links to other lessons:
LESSON 2: How to pronounce syllables, here
LESSON 3: Hajimemashite - how do you do?, here
LESSON 4: Marēshia-jin desu - I'm Malaysian, here
LESSON 5: O-shigoto wa nan desu ka - what is your occupation?, here
LESSON 6: Sūji - numbers (Part 1), here
LESSON 7: Kazoku wa gonin desu = there are five people in my family, here
LESSON 8: Ima nanji desu ka = what time is it now?, here
LESSON 9: Ikura desu ka = how much is it?, here
LESSON 10: Yūbinkyoku wa doko desu ka = where is the post office?, here
LESSON 11: Nichiyōbi ni nani o shimasu ka = what do you do on Sundays?, here
LESSON 12: Pāti o shimashō = let's have a party!, here
LESSON 13: Sūji - numbers (Part 2), here
LESSON 14: Senshū Kyōto ni ikimashita = last week I went to Kyoto, here
LESSON 15: Ii o-tenki desu ne = it's nice weather, isn't it?, here
LESSON 16: Supōtsu wa tenisu ga suki desu = the sport I like is tennis, here
LESSON 17a: Kaimono = shopping, here
LESSON 17b: Kaimono = shopping, here
LESSON 18: Bīru o ippon kudasai = a bottle of beer, please, here
LESSON 19: O-kane = money, here
LESSON 20: Yoyaku shitai desu = I want to make a reservation, here
LESSON 21: Asobi ni kite kudasai = please come and visit, here

----------------------------------------------
Places offering Japanese language classes in Malaysia
Japan Foundation Kuala Lumpur's directory: here (Contributed by boringpig)

----------------------------------------------
Useful links to other Japanese self-study websites
ECIS (an audio and video progamme): here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
Free Japanese Lessons: here (Contributed by netfan)
Japanese-Online.com: here (Contributed by netfan)
Learn Japanese Online: here (Contributed by netfan)
Meguro Language Center (Tokyo) Free Study Materials: here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
mic-J Audio Visual Resources for Japanese Instruction: here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
NHK World Japanese Lessons: here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
Nihongo.3Yen.com: here
Nihongo o oshiete: here
Real World Japanese: here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
TheJapanesePage.com: here

----------------------------------------------
Online resources e.g. dictionaries, etc.
Free Japanese Dictionary: here (Contributed by xxboxx)
Improve your kanji: here (Contributed by oe_kintaro)
Japanese-English Learner's Dictionary: here (Contributed by Zeten)
Japanese<->English Dictionary: here
Kanji Converter: here (Contributed by shinchan^^)

----------------------------------------------
Online proficiency tests
English-Japanese Vocabulary Quizzes: here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
Internet Japanese test: here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
Sample questions for JLPT (Level 1-4): here (Contributed by ninjamerah)
Some review questions: here (Contributed by aburex)

----------------------------------------------
Downloads
Head on over to Gmail and use the following information to access some e-books.

Username: japlesson
Password: japlesson123


So far the following e-books are uploaded:
1. Japanese for Busy People - Kana Workbook
2. Lets Learn Japanese Basic 1 - Volume 1
3. Lets Learn Japanese Basic 1 - Volume 2
4. Lets Learn Japanese Basic 1 - Volume 3
5. JLPT 1991-1999 Level 1 Test Papers (Contributed by ninjamerah)
6. JLPT 1991-1999 Level 2 Test Papers (Contributed by ninjamerah)
7. JLPT 1991-1999 Level 3 Test Papers (Contributed by ninjamerah)
8. JLPT 1991-1999 Level 4 Test Papers (Contributed by ninjamerah)
9. 1000 Kanji

PLEASE PLEASE do not misuse this email address. Just get the files you need, and dont do anything else. Thanks!

Files have been deleted by an unknown person(s). sad.gif

Special download!
Declan's Flashcard software for learning Kanji. Download here! Many thanks to Dark Steno for the file hosting!

----------------------------------------------
Video Lessons! (DEFINITELY not 56k friendly sweat.gif)
Streaming videos of japanese lessons hosted at www.youtube.com. These videos go hand in hand with the Let's Learn Japanese Basic 1 series of e-books which you can get from the Gmail account above.

If you want to view the videos, my advice is that you allow the videos to load, read up the appropriate chapter (print them out if possible), and use the readings as a guide when you watch the videos. It'll really help! smile.gif

All videos have been removed by Youtube.com cry.gif

----------------------------------------------
Tips (Contributed by netfan)
Try searching for and entering Japanese chat rooms on MSN or Yahoo that offer Japanese lessons, or have native japanese who are willing to practise with you. But er...no hanky panky ok? sweat.gif

----------------------------------------------
Learn hiragana,katakana and kanji (Contributed by shinmei88)
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...&#entry18040984
(edited by HMMaster)

This post has been edited by jhcj: Sep 14 2008, 01:11 AM
TSjhcj
post Dec 1 2005, 09:10 AM

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QUOTE(ellimist @ Nov 30 2005, 04:55 PM)
Asked on ur bloggie but I'll ask it here anyways tongue.gif

1.I have no idea how to pronounce "n" by itself (ko-n-ni-chi-wa <--whoa woot?) How do you do it? (lol maybe u could pronounce it for me over the weekend)

2.How bout the whole "r" and "l" thingie.Like roku (six?) is spelled tat way but pronounced as "lok" rite?
*
Read below for the syllable pronounciation guide. And yeah, I'll fill you in over the weekend. tongue.gif

QUOTE(seaotter @ Nov 30 2005, 05:07 PM)
well...from what I'VE learned:

1. 'n' is prounounced "nnn", basicaly the N without the 'e'. we all say n "enn" what tongue.gif this n is the sanem as how you pronounce n in "name" or "naik".

2. well.....coz they dont have the consonant L in their language, every l is somewhat pronounced "rr"...and true the other way round coz of the way our brain is . and the 'u' int he "roku" is sometimes silent, or bately heard. same as "tsu" and "su" so, roku can be pronounced "roku" or "rok-u" where the 'u' is silent. this 'u' is pronounced something like you say 'u' in "udang" or "udon" or "ular"

lol...i kind of hijacked the thread. sorry jhcj tongue.gif
*
Hey nice explanation dude. And nah, you didnt hijack the thread. Thanks for helping! thumbup.gif

QUOTE(xxboxx @ Nov 30 2005, 08:45 PM)
yo, promoting japanese is the way to go in anime-shrine thumbup.gif
to speak japanese, get "Pimsleur's Comprehensive Japanese (Ogg)(complete)" from piratebay. better fast, coz only left 4 seeders.

and if you think you're "yabai" enough, get "Remembering the kanji" from piratebay to learn kanji.
*
There are about 2000 kanji in the japanese language, of which 1945 is considered essential. ph34r.gif Out of this, 1006 is taught in schools. If you ask me, I'd say...HOLY SH- laugh.gif
TSjhcj
post Dec 1 2005, 10:25 AM

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LESSON 2
How to pronounce syllables
In the english language, sometimes certain syllables are stressed when you speak. For example, the letter a can vary as follows:

man, mate, mayor.

In contrast, in japanese the letter a is always pronounced as in man. The five japanese vowels in order are:

a as in man
i as in hit
u as in blue
e as in end
o as in hot.

Japanese Sound Chart
CODE
R = romanji   H = hiragana  K = katakana
-----------------
R  |  H  |  K
-----------------
a  |  あ  |  ア  
i  |  い  |  イ  
u  |  う  |  ウ  
e  |  え  |  エ  
o  |  お  |  オ  
-----------------
ka |  か  |  カ  
ki |  き  |  キ  
ku |  く  |  ク  
ke |  け  |  ケ  
ko |  こ  |  コ  
-----------------
sa |  さ  |  サ  
shi|  し  |  シ  
su |  す  |  ス  
se |  せ  |  セ  
so |  そ  |  ソ  
-----------------
ta |  た  |  タ  
chi|  ち  |  チ
tsu|  つ  |  ツ  <----- tsu is an unfamiliar sound for English speakers; it is
te |  て  |  テ         only one syllable (or beat); squash the t and s
to |  と  |  ト         together as you say them.
-----------------
na |  な  |  ナ  
ni |  に  |  ニ  
nu |  ぬ  |  ヌ  
ne |  ね  |  ネ  
no |  の  |  ノ  
-----------------
ha |  は  |  ハ  
hi |  ひ  |  ヒ  
fu |  ふ  |  フ  <----- fu is a soft sound, between f and h. Your front teeth dont
he |  へ  |  ヘ         touch your lips as you say it; air is let out between your
ho |  ほ  |  ホ         teeth and lips.
-----------------
ma |  ま  |  マ
mi |  み  |  ミ
mu |  む  |  ム
me |  め  |  メ
mo |  も  |  モ
-----------------
ya |  や  |  ヤ
yu |  ゆ  |  ユ
yo |  よ  |  ヨ
-----------------
ra |  ら  |  ラ
ri |  り  |  リ          r is a soft sound, somewhere between r and l, and not like the
ru |  る  |  ル          French r sound.
re |  れ  |  レ
ro |  ろ  |  ロ
-----------------
wa |  わ  |  ワ
n  |  ん  |  ン          n has a full beat.
-----------------
ga |  が  |  ガ
gi |  ぎ  |  ギ
gu |  ぐ  |  グ          g as in get, not gin.
ge |  げ  |  ゲ
go |  ご  |  ゴ
-----------------
za |  ざ  |  ザ
ji |  じ  |  ジ
zu |  ず  |  ズ
ze |  ぜ  |  ゼ
zo |  ぞ  |  ゾ
-----------------
ba |  ば  |  バ
bi |  び  |  ビ          There are no v sounds in Japanese; and b is substituted
bu |  ぶ  |  ブ          for foreign words.
be |  べ  |  ベ
bo |  ぼ  |  ボ
-----------------
pa |  ぱ  |  パ
pi |  ぴ  |  ピ
pu |  ぷ  |  プ
pe |  ぺ  |  ペ
po |  ぽ  |  ポ
-----------------
da |  だ  |  ダ
de |  で  |  デ
do |  ど  |  ド

The final set of sounds in the sound chart consists of a consonant plus ya, yu or yo. These also have single beats (i.e. they have one syllable), although people sometimes make the mistake of pronouncing them with two beats. For example, sometimes people pronounce the first sound in Kyoto as ki-yo instead of ky.
CODE

-----------------
R  |  H  |  K
-----------------
kya| きゃ | キャ
kyu| きゅ | キュ
kyo| きょ | キョ
-----------------
sha| しゃ | シャ
shu| しゅ | シュ
sho| しょ | ショ
-----------------
cha| ちゃ | チャ  <----- cha as in chance, not character
chu| ちゅ | チュ
cho| ちょ | チョ
-----------------
nya| にゃ | ニャ
nyu| にゅ | ニュ
nyo| にょ | ニョ
-----------------
hya| ひゃ | ヒャ
hyu| ひゅ | ヒュ
hyo| ひょ | ヒョ
-----------------
mya| みゃ | ミャ
myu| みゅ | ミュ
myo| みょ | ミョ
-----------------
rya| りゃ | リャ
ryu| りゅ | リュ
ryo| りょ | リョ
-----------------
gya| ぎゃ | ギャ
gyu| ぎゅ | ギュ
gyo| ぎょ | ギョ
-----------------
ja | じゃ | ジャ  <----- ja as in jam (not the German ja)
ju | じゅ | ジュ
jo | じょ | ジョ
-----------------
bya| びゃ | ビャ
byu| びゅ | ビュ
byo| びょ | ビョ
-----------------
pya| ぴゃ | ピャ
pyu| ぴゅ | ピュ
pyo| ぴょ | ピョ
-----------------


This post has been edited by jhcj: Mar 6 2006, 01:50 PM
TSjhcj
post Dec 1 2005, 02:03 PM

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And because I have alot of free time in the office, I present...Lesson 3! XD

LESSON 3: Hajimemashite = How do you do?

Vocabulary list
Greetings
- ohay gozaimas(u) = good morning
- konnichiwa = hello; good afternoon (late morning onwards)
- konbanwa = good evening
- oyasumi = good night
- saynara = goodbye (a formal expression)
- bai bai = goodbye (informal)
- ja mata ne! = see you!
- mata ash(i)ta = see you tomorrow

Introductions
- hajimemash(i)te = how do you do?
- dzo yorosh(i)ku = pleased to meet you
- kochira wa ...san = this person is ...mr/mrs/miss/ms (addressing someone else)
- dmo arigat (gozaimas(u)) = thank you (very much)
- arigat = thanks
- sumimasen = excuse me; sorry
- hai = yes
- iie = no
- desu = am, is, are

Sample conversation
Reiko Yamaguchi and her son Takeshi are meeting Anne Jenkins at Narita International Airport. Reiko sees an English girl standing on her own...

Reiko: Ano... An Jenkins(u)-san desu ka.
Girl: Iie...
Reiko: (embarassed) A! Sumimasen.
Takeshi: (also embarassed) Oksan!

Anne is waiting nearby and sees Reiko's sign with her name on it.
Anne: Sumimasen, Yamaguchi-san des(u) ka.
Reiko: Hai, s des(u)!
Anne: Hajimemash(i)te. An Jenkins(u) des(u). Dzo yorosh(i)ku (she bows).
Reiko: (bowing) Hajimemash(i)te. Yamaguchi Reiko des(u). Dzo yorosh(i)ku.

Reiko then introduces her son to Anne.
Reiko: Kore wa Takeshi des(u). Mus(u)ko des(u).
Takeshi: (bowing) Dzo yorosh(i)ku.
Anne: (bowing) Dzo yorosh(i)ku.

On the way home by train, Takeshi bumps into his friend, Jun. He introduces Anne to Jun.
Takeshi: Konnichiwa!
Jun: Konnichiwa!
Takeshi: Kochira wa An Jenkins(u)-san des(u).
Jun: Hajimemash(i)te. Suzuki Jun des(u). Dzo yorosh(i)ku (bows).

After they've reached their destination...
Takeshi: Ja mata ne!
Jun: Mata ash(i)ta!

Extras
ano = a hesitation word, like erm, er.
ka = indicates a question
oksan = mother
s des(u) = that's right
mus(u)ko = (my) son

Explanations
1. An Jenkinsu-san desu ka Are you Miss Anne Jenkins?
The Japanese use san when they address other people. It is attached to the end of the name and can be used with either the surname or first name, although Japanese generally use surnames unless they know the person really well. It is very important to use san when addressing Japanese people, otherwise it would be considered impolite. There are more polite and casual forms of san:
- sama is used when addressing letters and in more formal situations;
- kun is used for young boys and by men who know each other well;
- chan may be used between children or by adults when they adress children;
- teachers and professors have sensei attached to their names.

2. Hajimemashite, Yamaguchi Reiko desu How do you do? I'm Reiko Yamaguchi.
A second point to remember about san is that it is never used when addressing yourself or your own family. Read the conversation to see examples of this e.g. Hajimemashite. Suzuki Jun desu, or Kore wa Takeshi desu.

3. Hajimemashite. An Jenkinsu desu. Dzo yoroshiku How do you do. I am Anne Jenkins. Pleased to meet you.
When you first meet someone you use the formal phrases hajimemashite and dzo yoroshiku. After you say your name you use desu (I am). The same word is used for you/we/they are and it/she/he is. Also, desu comes at the end of the sentence.

4. Yamaguchi-san desu ka Are you Mrs Yamaguchi
To make a question in Japanese you say ka at the end of the sentence. Think of it as a spoken question mark. When ka is written at the end of a sentence, there is no need to write a question mark as well. For example:
- Yamaguchi-san desu ka = Are you Mrs Yamaguchi?
- Tky desu ka = Is it Tokyo?

5. Kochira wa An Jenkinsu-san desu This is Miss Anne Jenkins
To introduce someone else in person you use the phrase kochira wa. For example:
- kochira wa An Jenkinsu-san desu = This is Miss Anne Jenkins.
- kochira wa Yamaguchi Takeshi-san desu = This is Takeshi Yamaguchi.

However, you dont use kochira when introducing members of your own family. Instead, you can use the informal phrase kore (this is) as Reiko does:
- kore wa Takeshi desu = This is Takeshi.

-----------------------------------------------------

PRACTISE FOR LESSON 3 - click me!

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 4 2005, 09:52 AM
TSjhcj
post Dec 1 2005, 10:24 PM

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Yep, An stands for Anne. And I'm not otaku level...yet. laugh.gif I've always been interested in learning the Japanese language, that's all. smile.gif
TSjhcj
post Dec 2 2005, 09:13 AM

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Feedback from a forumer, allenultra: Isn't hajimemashite only used when u meet a person for the first time? You sure hajimemashite = how do u do? Can be used all the time?

As per number 3 in the Explanation section of Lesson 3, you use the formal phrases hajimemashite and dzo yoroshiku when you first meet someone. After that, the greetings that you use whenever you meet the same person will vary to some extent depending on the time of the day e.g. konnichiwa, konbanwa, etc. And about the translation, I'm rather sure hajimemashite is roughly translated to "how do you do", and I think that the phrase "hajime" means something like "first time" or "beginning" (I could be wrong lol). Maybe aburex can help here? tongue.gif

Konnichiwa is often translated as hello, but the first thing you would say in the morning is ohay gozaimasu (good morning) or ohay to a friend or within the family. In the evening you would say konbanwa (good evening). Konnichiwa is used later in the morning through to early evening.

Thanks for the question allenultra! I aint no pro yet, but I hope this helps! sweat.gif

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 2 2005, 12:22 PM
TSjhcj
post Dec 2 2005, 10:00 AM

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QUOTE(ykj @ Dec 2 2005, 09:30 AM)
kore & kochira (polite) has the same meaning though
*
Yes, same meaning, but different usage depending on the situation.

From lesson 3, explanation 5:
To introduce someone else in person you use the phrase kochira wa. However, you dont use kochira when introducing members of your own family. Instead, you can use the informal phrase kore.
TSjhcj
post Dec 2 2005, 12:56 PM

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QUOTE(e-jump @ Dec 2 2005, 12:21 PM)
sugoi dess thumbup.gif

oh btw, in contructing a sentence in japs, object or subject should begin 1st?
*
Err...I'm not THAT good yet. sweat.gif But I'll cover some of it in Lesson 4 (compiling the information now). tongue.gif

QUOTE(ellimist @ Dec 2 2005, 12:48 PM)
I believe that will be covered in future lessons smile.gif
*
Yep.

QUOTE(seaotter @ Dec 2 2005, 12:50 PM)
aiyo...
even though they say it as "dess" ( with the silent u), you still have to spell it as desu liao  tongue.gif
*
Hehe, well if you really want to be proper about it, then yeah, it should be spelt as desu and not des. But then again, asal faham cukuplah. tongue.gif
TSjhcj
post Dec 2 2005, 01:39 PM

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QUOTE(xxboxx @ Dec 2 2005, 01:27 PM)
your link for 2nd and 3rd lesson didn't work correctly. you should put at such:
CODE
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=224407&view=findpost&p=
the last part you should put the post number. example 2nd lesson = 5406900
*
A sumimasen. Arigat! blush.gif
TSjhcj
post Dec 2 2005, 03:14 PM

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LESSON 4: Marēshia-jin desu = I'm Malaysian

Vocabulary list
Countries
- marēshia = malaysia
- igirisu = england
- amerika = america
- nihon = japan
- chūgoku = china

Languages
- marei-go = malay
- eigo = english
- nihon-go = japanese
- chugoku-go = chinese

Nationalities
- marēshia-jin = malaysian
- igirisu-jin = british
- amerika-jin = american
- nihon-jin = japanese
- chūgoku-jin = chinese

Useful items
- tokei = watch or clock
- hon = book
- empits(u) = pencil
- pen = pen
- kompyūta = computer
- terebi = television <--- the japanese sound system does not have the "v" sound, remember?

Useful phrases
- ... wa nihon-go de nan des(u) ka = what is ... in japanese?
- nan des(u) ka = what is it?
- o-namae wa? = what's your name?
- shitsurei shimas(u) = pardon me for interrupting

Sample conversation
Anne has settled into her new life with the Yamaguchi family, and today is her first day at a Japanese language school. Her teacher, Satō-sensei, is getting all the students to introduce themselves.

Satō-sensei: Mina-san, ohayō gozaimasu.
Class: Sensei, ohayō gozaimasu.
Satō-sensei: Hajimemashite, Satō desu. Watashi wa Nihon-jin desu. Dōzo yoroshiku. (She points to Anne) Hai, dōzo.
Anne: An desu. Watashi wa Igirisu-jin desu. Dōzo yoroshiku.
Next student: Tani desu. Furansu-jin desu. Dōzo yoroshiku.
Student 2: Ano... Haidi desu. Doitsu (Germany) kara desu. Dōzo yoroshiku.
Student 3: Sukotto desu. Ē to, ē to ... America wa nihon-go de nan desu ka.
Satō-sensei: America wa nihon-go de A-me-ri-ka desu.
Scott: (amidst laughter) Aa! so desu ka. Ja, Amerika kara desu. Dōzo yoroshiku.

A new student arrives late...
New student: Shitsurei shimasu. (he bows)
Scott: O-namae wa?
New student: Han desu. Chūgoku-jin desu.
Anne: (looks puzzled) Chūgoku wa eigo de nan desu ka.
Han: China desu.

Satō-sensei now proceeds to check how many everyday objects the students know.
Satō-sensei: (points to her watch) Kore wa nihon-go de nan desu ka.
Han: Tokei desu.
Scott: (looking at watch) Nihon no tokei desu.
Satō-sensei: So desu. (picks up Anne's coat) Kore wa nan desu ka.
Tani: Kōto desu.
Scott: (showing off a bit) Igirisu no kōto desu.
Anne: Iie, sukottorando (Scotland) no kōto desu yo.

Extras
mina-san = everybody
watashi wa = i
hai, dōzo = go ahead; there you are
kara = from
ē to = another hesitation word (er, erm)
kore wa = this
yo = i tell you, actually

Explanations
1. Watashi wa Nihon-jin desu I'm Japanese.
Watashi means I and anata means you. There are other words for he/she/we/etc., but the Japanese tend not to use them unless it needs to be made clear who is being talked about. Boku is often used by males instead of watashi. In contrast, atashi is the form often used by females (both of these are more casual forms). Ore is least polite, and can be used by both males or females. - contributed by 320cbr.

When addressing other people it is more polite to use their names instead of anata, and unless you need to emphasize I, there is no need to say watashi/boku.

Wa is used after a word to show that that word is the 'topic' (subject) of whatever is being talked about. It can sometimes be translated as as for in English:
- Watashi wa Amerika-jin desu = I (subject) am American. (As for me, I am American)
- Haidi-san wa Doitsu kara desu = Heidi (subject) is from Germany (As for Heidi, she comes from Germany)

2. O-namae wa? What's your name?
In point 1 it is already mentioned that it is more polite to use people's names when addressing them istead of using anata (you). The japanese language has other ways of avoiding the use of anata. One of these is the use of "o" in front of certain words to make them sound more polite or formal when addressing other people. However, you dont use it to talk about yourself or your family members. Here are some examples:
- o-namae = your name
- namae = (my) name
- o-shigoto = your job
- shigoto = (my) job

3. Doitsu kara desu I'm from Germany.
Kara means from and follows the word, unlike English where we say from first. For example:
- Tōkyō kara = from Tokyo
- Furansu kara = from France
- (watashi wa) Igirisu kara desu = i'm from England
- kono uisuki wa Sukottorando kara desu = this whisky is from Scotland

4. Nihon no tokei desu It's a Japanese watch
The word no, when inserted between two words works something like 's in English:
- An-san no kōto = Anne's coat
- sensei no tēpu = the teacher's tape

It also gives meaning of my, your, etc. For example:
- watashi no tokei = my watch
- anata no hon = your book

It connects an item with its owner, origin or language:
- Igirisu no kōto = an English coat (a coat of/from England)
- Doitsu-go no hon = a German (language) book

5. Nihon-go de nan desu ka What is it in Japanese?
A very useful phrase to learn when wanting to improve your Japanese vocabulary. Also, if you dont understand much Japanese you can always say:
- Eigo de nan desu ka = What is it in English?

If you want to specify an object, place it in front of the sentence followed by wa. For example:
- Book wa nihon-go de nan desu ka = What is book in Japanese? (As for book, what is it in Japanese)
- Tokei wa eigo de nan desu ka = What is tokei in English?

--------------------------------------------

LESSON 4 PRACTISE - click me!

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 21 2005, 11:11 AM
TSjhcj
post Dec 2 2005, 03:18 PM

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QUOTE(320cbr @ Dec 2 2005, 02:16 PM)
hey nice jhcj thumbup.gif
but if you guys seriously want to learn japanese u should go take classes
private classes where they teach u one by one is by far the best smile.gif, easier & faster for u to learn
trust me, u won't learn perfect japanese through only books

though i heard japanese classes in KL are veri expensive
they could easily go RM1000+ for i think half a semester?
so you could save up some time and money if u learnt the basic already
so good job

and if u do take japanese classes, i suggest u to learn how to write aswell, coz it totally worth it
my teacher say most malay don't learn kanji
chinese got no prob they are used to chinese characters
one note for chinese who think they can read japanese thru kanji is that not only the pronounciations are different but some kanji are also have different meaning
for example 'doctor' in chinese is 医生, in japanese it is 医者
*
I'm not saying this is the best way to learn Japanese. Heck, I'd love to pick up Kanji (I can already recognise hiragana, working on Katakana now), but these lessons should at least get me speaking japanese decently after a while. Anyways, thanks for the feedback. smile.gif

QUOTE(320cbr @ Dec 2 2005, 02:24 PM)
in my opinion asian should have no problems pronouncing in japanese
those westeners are the only ones havin problem - those wapanese tongue.gif

and btw jhjc i think u should write them in full spellings 'desu'
*
I thought I was? O_o'''

QUOTE(ellimist @ Dec 2 2005, 02:50 PM)
If you guys are serious AND have the money (and time maybe) then take classes.But I don't have tat kinda money,so learnin here should give me erm..basic speech abilities,lol
*
Yeah, that's what these lessons are about - basic speech abilities lol.
TSjhcj
post Dec 2 2005, 03:35 PM

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Found the term used for "malay" as in "malay language". It SHOULD be correct, I think.

I hope.

sweat.gif

Here's what I found:
マレーシア = marēshia = malaysia
マレイ (n,adj) = marei = malay

Edited lesson 4's post to reflect this find. If I'm wrong, please PM me and let me know so that i can make the necessary corrections! tongue.gif

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 2 2005, 03:37 PM
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post Dec 2 2005, 04:28 PM

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QUOTE(320cbr @ Dec 2 2005, 04:13 PM)
wat i meant was write it in normal ro-maji
'enpitsu' not enpits(u) tongue.gif
i think it is マレー not マレイ
as in マレー語 mareego, malay language
and malaysian is マレー人 (mare-jin)

and maybe u want to write the example dailogues together with kana too brows.gif
*
Regarding the romanji, I write like that in the "Vocabulary" section to give the readers a feel of how to pronounce those words. If you notice, I take away the brackets in the "Conversation" section.

I'll check with my gf's Japanese friends regarding the pronounciation and written form of Malaysia and Malay. For now, I'd say both yours and mine sound plausible. laugh.gif

QUOTE(320cbr @ Dec 2 2005, 04:22 PM)
oh note that the topic marker particle, 'wa'
is written as は(ha)
日本人です。
watashi wa nihon jin desu

and more on watashi
watakushi or watashi (same kanji : 私) is polite
unpolite one for male is boku
while female use atashi
i think the least polite is ore
*
Thanks for the extra feedback! Yeah, i do know that the particle 'wa' is written as は. Like I said, I didnt want to include any hiragana/katana/kanji so as to make these lessons easy to understand for others. Perhaps you can contribute these parts as feedback? I know I'd love that! Thanks again! thumbup.gif
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post Dec 2 2005, 04:41 PM

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QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Dec 2 2005, 04:34 PM)
あれは違うと思います。

「malaysian」 は マレーシア人
「malay」はマレー人
*
HOLY CRAP. I cant read kanji! T_T Although i can make out what the hiragana means. sweat.gif

Translate pls! tongue.gif

QUOTE(ellimist @ Dec 2 2005, 04:34 PM)
o.O what Japanese frens?
*
Er...she's in the states remember? There are japanese students there as well you know. >_>
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post Dec 2 2005, 04:48 PM

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QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Dec 2 2005, 04:43 PM)
I wrote:
"I think that's wrong.
malaysian is mare-shia jin
malay is mare-jin"
*
Ah I see, well I wrote marēshia-jin with referrence to malaysians, not malays. smile.gif

The one that I'm not sure of now is malay language, as in bahasa melayu. Is it marē-go (マレー語) or marei-go (マレイ語)?

Oh crap, time to head home. Continued tomorrow! Try to keep spam to a minimum ok? tongue.gif

Ja mata ashita!

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 2 2005, 04:49 PM
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post Dec 3 2005, 01:40 AM

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QUOTE(aburex @ Dec 2 2005, 11:49 PM)
Malaysian (マレーシア人)
Malay (マレー人)
Malay language (マレー語)

sometimes japanese uses (マレイ) or (マレィ) instead of (マレー)..
it's still the same anyway..
*
A so desu ka. Well then, I'll just leave my explanation intact then, since both are correct. smile.gif

QUOTE(320cbr @ Dec 2 2005, 11:55 PM)
I hav question smile.gif
in wat situation do u use  勉強する?
coz usually I see 勉強をします
so they dont use を with する?
*
勉強する = benkyō suru
勉強をします = benkyō o shimasu
There, translated for the benefit of everyone else. Hiragana ftw! laugh.gif

Err...all I know is that を is an object particle, and it marks the object of the sentence. It is pronounced as o when written after the object.

E.g. sushi o tabemashita = i ate sushi

Is the word benkyō (勉強) an object? unsure.gif

p/s: This sure is getting complicated! Casual readers, hang in there! tongue.gif

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 3 2005, 01:42 AM
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post Dec 3 2005, 07:53 PM

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oe_kintaro, if it's possible, could you type out the romanji for all your sentences as well? It would be a BIG help to those who cant read kanji, like me for instance. tongue.gif
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post Dec 4 2005, 09:05 AM

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QUOTE(xxboxx @ Dec 3 2005, 10:06 PM)
hey, i think it would be much fun, and easier to memorize if there's some test for each lesson. so everyone that learning it could test if they remember it or not.

here's some test from lesson 3 that i make up:

*
Excellent use of the spoiler tags!! Why didnt I think of that sooner! tongue.gif

QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Dec 4 2005, 07:22 AM)
I will try, but no guarantees wink.gif
besides, there are many ways to read unknown kanji on a PC
http://www.rikai.com is one of them.

my advice to those aspiring to learn a decent amount of japanese:
LOSE THE ROMAJI ASAP.... they don't give you a real feel for the words and there's too much ambiguity when it is used, as firstly, many japanese words already sound the same, and secondly, romanizing the words makes it worse: e.g., when you type "genin", do you really mean げにん「下人」(low-ranked person) ?or げんいん「原因」?(cause/source)?
Furthermore, everyone here seems to be using different romanization systems, which further adds to the confusion: e.g., jo and jyo are actually the same thing. jou and j and jo- (conventions for writing long sound) also add to the confusion.

If you take formal classes, most teachers expect you to lose the romaji within the first 2-3 weeks anyway...

Besides, has anyone here tried to sing japanese karaoke using romaji? I can tell you it's a real b*tch to keep up with the words, and your phrasing will go out of sync sweat.gif
*
Well, I understand that to get far when learning Japanese, you should lose the romanji, but I'm sure many here are just casual readers who are just taking this lightly. Personally, I do wish to learn kanji, but in good time. But I gotta start somewhere right? And I guess if you put romanji together with the kanji that you type, that'll help me learn just as fast, no? Rather than me cross-referencing with a Japanese kanji dictionary every other word cause I dont know how to read chinese characters.

And as for the different romanization systems, well, I cant help it if that happens. But I'll use the system that I lined out in the first post e.g. using the micron (-) symbol above the vowel to signify long vowel sounds. In the case of your example (genin), using the system I outlined in the first post, げにん「下人」would be written as genin while げんいん「原因」 would be written as gen'in. tongue.gif

Thanks for your feedback! smile.gif

[edit] Added several useful links to the first post. Also added links to practises after end of each lesson (lesson 3 onwards).

This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 4 2005, 10:29 AM
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post Dec 4 2005, 09:50 AM

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Adapted from xxboxx's post,
LESSON 3 - Practise
1. How do you greet someone first thing in the morning?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


2. How do you greet someone in the evening?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


3. When do you use the greeting "Konnichiwa"?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


4. After talking to a friend, both of you decide to head back home. Your friend says "Ja mata ne!" (See you!). How do you respond by saying "See you tomorrow!" in Japanese?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


5. How do you say "No, I'm sorry" in Japanese?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


6. You see a girl standing alone. You think she's your friend Reiko, but you have no idea how she looks like. How do you approach to ask her? (English: Excuse me, are you Reiko?)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


7. From question 6, assuming you are Reiko, how do you respond? (English: Yes, that's right)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


8. You are out with Reiko, and you bump into another friend. How do you introduce Reiko to your friend? (English: This person is Reiko)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


9. Translate this sentence into English: Hajimemashite, watashi wa Kanae desu. Dozō yoroshiku!
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


10. Decide whether the suffix -san should be used in the sentences below.
a. Hajimemashite, An Jenkinsu ____ desu.
b. Kochira wa Yamaguchi Reiko ____ desu.
c. Kochira wa Suzuki _____ desu ka.
d. Sumimasen, Yamaguchi _____ desu ka.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 4 2005, 10:33 AM
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post Dec 4 2005, 10:12 AM

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LESSON 4 - Practise
1. How would you say these phrases in Japanese?
a. What is 'hat' in Japanese?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


b. Pardon me for interrupting (when entering a room).
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


c. I am Malaysian.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


d. This is a Japanese language book.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


2. Translate this into English: Anata wa Igirisu kara desu ka.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


3. You are talking to a Malaysian-born Japanese, Sakura. Another friend Kanae then says to you "Ano, Sakura-san wa Nihon kara desu ka". What did she say? How do you respond?
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This post has been edited by jhcj: Dec 4 2005, 10:16 AM

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