Thanks to all fellow contributors of thoughts at our V2 thread. Hope this V3 thread continue to be one of the most read swiftlet discussion forum around. The forum to discuss and alert all fellow ranchers about any problem arise in this industry. Sharing of DIY techniques, methods are welcome.


Some links regarding swiftlet farming:
Kong Heng Swiftlets Equipments Supply
Nest Tech Equipment Technology
Ming-Yan.com
Nest Talk Consultation Service
Crystal Swiftlets
Klub Peternak Walet - Indonesia
aerodramus.com
Yahoo Discussion Group

Blogs regarding swiftlet farming:
CATATAN HENMILIA

Swiftlet Farming : an Addictive Hobby & Multi-Million Dollar Business
Johan Walet.com
GMYS ENTERPRISE-Menjual Peralatan Memancing Burung Walet
Swallow Bird Nest Indonesia
燕农天地与燕屋管理 (swiftlet farming & management)
World of Swiftlet Farming

Proceeded from V1 http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/431781/+2420

V2 Thread

This post has been edited by seeseng: May 9 2010, 11:50 PM

Wow.... V3 already.

But Seeseng, I've just noticed that some threads like this no need to create new thread even already exceeded 200 pages.

This post has been edited by aeiou228: May 9 2010, 11:53 AM

Dear Cergau,

Below message is what you are asking for and I really appreciate all concerned for the input @forum for all to share and for us to forward to relevant authorities unlike many people who will just keep quite and then curse when thing gone bad.

Shabas, you all are truly " Knights of the Swiftlets ".

Mesage to me are:

We are having our PPSB Exco Emergency Meeting on the 11th to discuss the Bill
and will have appointment to meet Datuk Sri Chua Soi Lek the next day.
Will keep you inform, if you have any information, please kindly pass to us.

Thank you.

Dato Beh


Time: 3pm (Tuesday) @ Sunway......... From the letter concerned, we do understand that Dato Beh is also concerned about the situation and that all new information can also be email to him. Better speak and act now. Ask not what other has done if you haven't help yourself.

This post has been edited by West Wing: May 9 2010, 12:38 PM

Wa... already V3. Just finished V1 last week. so much to read.
anyway I really enjoy reading all the posting except for the "heated argument". thank everybody for your contribution.

on different note, anybody know of a good shop that carry books on swiftlet farming. preferably in Kuantan area.

The Bill in question applies to Pen M'sia and Labuan only.
Cave swiftlets are more a feature in East Malaysia as such it's irrelevant thus appropriate the licensing clause be made specific to protected and totally protected birds nests.
Swiftlets in Pen M'sia is quoted as non limestone cave dwelling except in sea caves.
I quote "However in Peninsula Malaysia, edible nest swiftlets don't seem to roost in limestone caves, though they do use sea caves."
I have yet to sight any writeups (except the brief mention above) on the subject of Pen M'sia sea cave swiftlets.
I would hesitate to advocate protection of sea cave swiftlets on such a basis.

There's a hyperlink on my quotation above.
Just learnt to use it watching aeiou228 use the (http://) Code button

This post has been edited by Cergau: May 9 2010, 03:11 PM

It was never a rich man biz in BH as unlike human being, swiftlets are not so choosy that they will go only for the 5-stars birdhouse as I found that one of my friend started out doing it small...just a 15 feets by 20 feets single floor BH in the middle of his small few acre oil palm land. Now, his tiny BH has about a few kilo of nests each harvest and now, he can afford to build another slightly larger BH few meters away. Only in swiftlets can one can find fortune without going to crime.

So, instead of having idle land around, just build a simple House for the birds and who know, you may be a lucky winner, too.

congratz on reaching V3, Its been along time since I left pursuing this endevour.. but I guess by end of year.. I will be having 1 built from scratch.. I really like the links on Pak Hen blog, its been a few years since I met him, he's very knowledgable & full of wisdom, low down to earth guy.. I still remember he said each RBW has its own way to build, always think like the bird.. and never make it hard for them to live in. Its just too bad that some individual here in Malaysia try to capitalize from him.. good luck on V3

Good ! Good!!

Im happy to say that this low yat forum had also contributed to this event through some of you people and honestly i get my dose of swiftlet in here rather than other forums and facebook etc.... The reason is because of some mavericks behind the cloak that were actually professionals . there's no better place to find these people who knows what they are doing.

Same thing goes to those mavericks who sat behind the round table to draft out wildlife acts, 1GP and other laws they intent to get approval from the parliament. The enemies work have to be stop as their plan or hidden agenda that we all don't know. I assume they are also professional who are very closely link to the industry and also knowledgeable in the law aspect and also the financial aspect of the industry.

There will be a catastrophe in the end. The judgement day will come.

The enemies will find it hard to swallow their long time planning gone into the drain and wasted. Someone got to be responsible for it . Tax payer money goes to people who wasted so much time plotting out the stupid idea when more major things are not in their interest like the animals who had lost their home due to destruction of the forest in sabah and sarawak. when birds have no more place to live due to cutting off hills and limestone caves, they didn't address this problem and fine the people behind who destroys the birds and animal home..

totally disagree with you. we should focus on the main objective not on the problem that we are facing. all the associated problems are just the "challenges" that we need to face. there are many ways to skin a cat, so to speak. that is the main reason why we need forums, friends and networks. people around you can help you (through ideas sharing) face the "challenges".

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?gid=284786320559&ref=mf

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?gid=284786320559&ref=mf

KUMPULAN PEDAGANG/PENGUSAHA SARANG BURUNG WALIT/WALET MALAYSIA/INDONESIA

TUJUAN KUMPULAN INI DI WUJUDKAN:

1. Mewujudkan Kerjasama di antara semua Pengusaha, Pedagang sarang burung & Pemilik rumah burung walit / walet di seluruh Malaysia & Indonesia

2. Membincangkan tentang masalah Pengeluaran & Pasaran sarang burung walit / walet bg semua pengusaha.

3.Saling bantu membantu dan berbincang antara semua pedagang, pemilik rumah burung walit / walet tentang apa sahaja masalah yang sedang dihadapi dari semua sudut perundangan & penguatkuasaaan.

4. Berkongsi-kongsi Maklumat & Idea berkenaan Teknologi dan Rekabentuk Rumah Burung Walit / walet yang termoden dan Terkini. Serta Aktivi yg Melibatkan INdustri Sarang Burung Walit / Walet

Golongan Sasaran:

- Ahli Persatuan Pedagang & Pengusaha Sarang Burung Walit / Walet Seluruh Malaysia / Indonesia

- Ahli Persatuan Pemilik Rumah Burung Walit / Walet Seluruh Malaysia / Indonesia

- Pengusaha, Pemilik Rumah Walit & Pedagang Sarang Burung Walit / Walet

- Perunding (Consultant) Industri Sarang Burung Walit / walet.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?gid=284786320559&ref=mf

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?gid=284786320559&ref=mf


Attached thumbnail(s)

Onr way to teach those BH owners that refused to follow certain simple rules and regulations is to allow the Local Authorities or the Local Association to unplug the fuse from the main electricity incoming line provided that they have the permission from the Police to do so.

We must admit that there are afew black sheep among us and that we are not all law bidding and peace loving. Those few uncooperative ones must be taught a lesson or else other will follow......like the problem caused by the midnight cowboys ( motorcycles racers) causing so much sleepless nights/accidents and now, those youngsters have resort to stealing or robbing unsuspected victims in the middle of the nights to get money to support their nightly activities.

If the Police has taken action in the bud, there will not be the present situation where those youngsters have to be shot to stop them and who will be responsible; the Police !!!!!

By the way, how to stop a fast running motorcyclist bearing false numberplate and having no driving license and infact most of these parents know what their sons are doing and these parents should also be lock up.

Coming back to BHs, better we prevent those few black ones from causing damages to our friendship and understanding with the neighbours, lest we end up victims due to the fault of a few selfish ones......must send them photos of "Mukah Incident" to remind them of what would happened to them if they don't cooperate.

I doubt PBTs have sufficient authority to deal with electricity supply, s/b under TNB (I may be wrong).
However if they invoke their usual protection given them where they can do no wrong.
They can drop a heavy ladder over yr electricity supply cable to snap it and say Ooops Sorry.
There's nothing you can do abt it unless you can 'read minds' and prove in court that the action was with ill intent and insufficient care has been taken.
Sure you can sue them but you will lose.
(They are above royalty in this sense.)

Delinquent operators....
Will folks who do not care abt their human neighbors give two hoots to dead birds?

what if they are on wind or solar energy?

101 book of How to Deal with Stubborn People
101 book of How to Create Attention to the Ignorant People .

There are two types here.
The stubborn - He knew it but not doing anything.
The Ignorant - He is pure ignorant because his main business is elsewhere.

Stubborn - Poor,Struggling to make money at all cost.
Ignorant - Rich, Not struggling but have money to solve the problem

Stubborn - will repeat the mistake after authority gone
Ignorant - anything happen, not his liability.

Stubborn - don't care, do what he think its right.
Ignorant - decision evaluated base on financial report.

This post has been edited by hackwire: May 10 2010, 02:32 PM

a ladder can do quite a bit of damage to yr solar panels or yr wind turbine blades to put them out of action?
a can of spilled paint will also take care of solar film-type if you happen to use them?
"Sandar tangga sini sekejap, mahu cat-lah, ada karat" Ooops Sorry!

one who installs his solar panel at ground level is asking for trouble. perhaps his BH is constructed underground!

roof top mate!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This post has been edited by htc: May 10 2010, 03:24 PM

All,
Got good news and bad news from a forwarded email (below).
My interpretations are
Good News
AF is not protected (thru Clarification of "spp." in First Schedule)
Bad News
Birds' nest collection is under Perhilitan, so 'kena lesen' as stipulated in the Bill (or Act once passed by Parliament)
(thru clarification of definition of wildlife)
Not sure but likely good news
Other licenses for buying, export, re-export, my reading? only for protected species

Confirmation from Perhilitan with further clarification
Thanks for your keen interest on the proposed new Wildlife Conservation Bill 2010.
· To the first isu..
o The definition of ‘wildlife’ is refer to all wild animals and wild birds which is also include ‘totally protected’, ‘protected’ and the ‘un-protected’.... This mean, the meaning of wildlife in this Bill does not confine to only totally protected and protected wildlife.
o My earlier explanation was on the context of what listed as ‘totally protected wildlife’ and ‘protected wildlife’ in the Act itself. I’m sorry if my explanation was not clear.

· And for the second isu..
o Yes, the statement as your understanding is as what I have explain.

Initial understanding after discussion with Perhilitan as sent for confirmation
Clause 3
“wildlife” means any species of wild animal or wild bird,
whether totally protected or protected, vertebrate or invertebrate,
live or dead, mature or immature and whether or not may be
tamed or bred in captivity;
Clarification
The definition of 'wildlife' applies and confined to only 'totally protected' and 'protected' as defined in the Bill and no other.
ie it does not apply to the hypothetical category (excluding totally protected and protected as defined in the Bill) of 'UN-protected'.

FIRST SCHEDULE
[section 3]
PROTECTED WILDLIFE
Interpretation of the First Schedule
1. Species included in this Schedule are referred to—
(a) by the name of the species; or
(b) as being all of the species included in a higher taxon or designated
part thereof.
2. The abbreviation “spp.” is used to denote all species of a higher taxon.
Clarification
Statement 2 is an emphasis of statement 1(b) and are both to be read together to mean
as being all of the species included in a higher taxon or designated
part thereof when so denoted by the abbreviation "spp."
ie when a unique specie is denoted it is then limited to specie as denoted whilst
when a higher taxon is denoted with "spp," it is limited to all specie below such taxon as denoted as the case may be.

if the Wildlife Bill is a guide for things to come...
they have legal access to anywhere! with or w/o warrant.
I doubt the dark forces will go to such lengths for want of a submarine commission?
They too wouldnt want to kill the golden goose/swift.

Unc WW,
Appreciate your assistance to escalate these points to the Fed Assoc for their consideration in their Exco meeting as they see fit.
Certainly there are more points than these that they may be able to highlight with their resources available.

To all sifus and readers, appreciate your comments and feedback
I suggest
Write to your MP with my suggested writeup below or write your own as you wish.
Amed/Add/Delete as you see fit if you do use this.



Dear YB ......

I write with great concern with the passage of the Wild Life Conservation Bill 2010 in Parliament through the 1st reading.
While I applaud the general increase in penalties for offences under the Bill for activities negatively affecting the threatened species, there is no distinction for specie that are not threatened. With the all encompassing intent (clarified with Perhilitan) of the definition of wildlife in the Bill , all wildlife short of domesticated animals (as governed under the Animals Act); the same severe penalties are applicable.
No appreciable attempt at distinction is apparent in the Bill.
The over zealousness is compounded by the following (though not exhaustive) examples
(1)opaque licensing criteria,
(2)unreasonable conditions that impinge on trade practices,
(3)carrying of arms during enforcement activities
(4)non distinction of severity of offence (eg an expired license is treated same as a suspected poacher and criminal procedures under police custody are applicable).

(1)Licensing
Criteria for approval are variable and without prior knowlege.
There is no specific requirements for approver to provide reasons for rejections.
Additional conditions may be attached at any time at the discretion of approver.
ref (Part 3, Chapter 2, clauses 12-25)
Recommendation -
Specific provision in the Bill for approval criteria to be priorly published
Rejection reasons to be specifically provided for in the Bill for timely and appropriate appeal.

(2)Selling only to licensed purchasers.
Undesirable as it distorts the market and encourages a monopoly.
Adds to the bureaucracy and cost of production of the EBN trade (1 of 6 identified for growth) with high econmic impact as outlined in the 2010 M'sia budget.
There's sufficient authority within the Bill for enforcement without the need for additional for bureaucratic licensing especially in light of the opaque criteria as pointed out earlier.
ref (Part 4, clause 41)
Recommendation -
Clause to be removed

(3)Armed enforcement officers
Apart from actions against poachers in wildlife habitat who are more often than are armed and mobile there is little justification for arming the officers in general.
Arming officers is disproportionate to threat faced by the officers in the course of their duties.
As recent events has shown, omissions and neglect may have fatal consequences to human life.
ref (Part 2, clause 8)
Recommendation -
Specific limitation to anti poaching activities in the wild.

(4)Power of arrest to the nearest police station
Disproportionate to the offence as even failure to renew ones license will be an offence under the Act and liable to arrest and criminal procedure applicable.
ref (Part 8, clause 93)
Recommendation -
Lawyer's counsel required as to the appropriate rephrasing reflective of offence.
(Suggest Feds assoc engaged lawyer for the purpose)

Some more forwarded correspondence with Perhilitan
What it really mean is to include any species that are known to be wild, as for domesticated species are not included. Domesticated animals such as dogs, cats, chickens, ducks or cows are than regulated under the Animals Act. Wildlife in many ways are tame but not domesticated.
Hope this explain the two between wild and domesticated animals/birds.

For those of you curious about the Animal Act....
No,No, ..this doesn't govern the behaviour in Parliament...just that this too was passed by parliament at some point in time.
Animals Act 1953

This post has been edited by Cergau: May 10 2010, 04:50 PM

Unc WW,
Check email, urgent & important msg.

Dear Cergau,

Has done as requested and hope for the best.........as the best for most of us is to pray that the Fed Guys will do their parts....

and hope that God make those who create so much pain in us to repent.

Dear all,

Well done, cergau, WW and many others in this forum, for all you have done trying to save the industry. Our salute to you.

Meanwhile, the bird’s nest industry of Malaysia is facing an impending would be disaster or probably an onslaught greatest ever given by the PERHILITAN now. This is going to affect extreme adversely on everybody in the industry with absolutely no one is spared if timely remedial steps is not innovated to counter. Of course, certain quarter from the industry ought to be held responsible for such negligence and insensitive and incompetency later. They voluntarily and misleadingly claimed to be the guard dogs for the industry but insteads made the industry to become underdog. But we have no time on this for the moment. The FEDERATION OF ASSOCIATIONS which has been claiming to represent all in the industry with or without official sanction or recognition from all in the industry, is now like ants on the hot pan calling for EGM held tomorrow, 11.05.10 @ 3pm at Sunway. It seems they are panic now and are running out of ideas. They are very desperate and are appealing openly through West Wing in this forum for positive ideas or solutions from all.

We would also appeal to all in this forum to spread the message across to alert all in the industry to help in by sharing in your brain power for positive solutions or ideas as to how to tackle the situation. Please either post your suggestion here or pm to me so your suggestions could be conveyed to the FED ASSO or those involved as soon as possible. It doesn’t matter now whether you disagree with or disrespect them. We are all on the same boat and the difference is they are the minority and are in the front playing with match sticks and we are at behind. We have to help saving them before we are saved too. They are also another main prong yet to start while the others are already silently working on it for the past weeks.

For your info, DL and his taskforce have been dug out from their graves of retirement and they have been closely monitoring the situation for the past weeks. DL is advising all in the industry and all his old comrades to be on the full alert and on the standby to cooperate again in unity throughout the country like before for an eventual national protest under citizen’s rights vested under the CONSTITUTION against the PERHILITAN if situation is unavoidable and not settled amicably by the perpetrator, the PERHILITAN to withdraw its nonsensical Bill voluntarily. We do know of their hidden evil agenda all this while. We do not want any present or future interference into the bird’s nest industry by the PERHILITAN at all under whatsoever pretext for this industry is never under their jurisdiction for this is cultivated house swiftlet nest from privately owned sanctuary and NOT those found in the natural caves on govt land. It is definitely defeating the purpose and pulling the legs on our PM’s 1MALAYSIA policy in which our PM has been encouraging to groom and to tap the potential of the bird’s nest industry to its fullest to bring in foreign revenue and wealth to this country and its people. What is the use of the special allocation of RM600 million funds granted by the PM the moment he took over office to support the growth of the 3 HIGH VALUED INDUSTRIES of the bird’s nest, the arowana fish and the sea weeds? The way the PERHILITAN is fooling around, it is definitely belittling the PM and making it not only a national MOCKERY but also an international one on our PM’s image.

No wonder, the PERHILITAN is viewed as the most notorious govt department. If not, how come a certain executive approving power has been transferred from the DIRECTOR GENERAL to the Minister concerned announced last month? This is something really unthinkable. That clearly indicates that not one senior PENGARAH in the department can be trustable. Normally, the DG or KP can be interdicted or suspended under the name of going holidays pending investigation and another senior be appointed to be acting DG to take over. This must be a very serious case that warrants such action.

Nonetheless, we wish to remind the PERHILITAN department that it is better to stop it. We are not to negotiate with you for the lesser. We are telling you to completely stop the nonsense before too late. Please be reminded that you are our civil servants to serve the people with salary paid from the people unless you are an organized crime syndicate with hidden agenda to prey on the people.

I do agree with Lukas that evil is always at work to takeover anything that have $$$$$$$ sign.

When i was working before in a bumi company before, my dept which was in the marketing always in the cooking pressure and many dept always find fault in our dept. We may also thought was it the race issue or the adaptation to modern thinking out of the box. In just a year time, the new establish marketing dept was totally destroy by these evils who planted mines and bomb in our dept. Alot of Sabotage was carried out on individual and many good fresh employee were sad to leave this marketing dept. One by one was targeted and taken out like a sniper. Evil brewed and contagious , it creeps into these new employees which were first hired to change the branding of the company.

Ever wonder where is the place where cash fund flow out easily in a company? It;s the marketing dept. This is the place where evil want to take over and run their operation.

Cergau,

We would like to highlight some inputs for the FEDERATION OF THE ASSOCIATIONS the following important facts and proposals to be considered and deliberated in their EGM;-

1) The BH operation in Malaysia is generally operated by individual having only one floor, 2 floors or 3 floors of a unit of building. And this is a passive type of investment by individual citizen. There is no guarantee for immediate success. This is analogical to the operation of the rubber or oil palm small holders with only an acre or two and they also pray to the god for mercy at times.

2) The number of BHs in the whole of Malaysia could by now already reached 100,000 units. If you think that the number is very big, and then compares it with the estate small holders, the coffee shops, the sundries shops, hawkers etc which could be a lot more than the BHs amounting to at least few hundred thousand if not more than a million each. Yet all these coffee shops, sundries shops and hawkers are under the Local council’s jurisdiction with only one simple and hassle free license.

3) Since the inauguration of this modernized bird’s house industry in Malaysia more than 10 years ago till today, the few states that issued premise license to the BHs are Kelantan, Penang, Perak, Pahang, etc. These licenses are all issued under PETTY TRADES AND COTTAGE INDUSTRIES under the Local councils with no problem and hassle free for many years. Besides this, there isn’t the involvement of any other department nor their licenses required. So far, everything is fine and under well control of the Local Councils.

4) Among these existing 100,000 BHs, more than 98% belongs to private individual passive investors. They are just like the coffee shops, sundries shops and hawkers found everywhere. Is there a NATIONAL GUIDESLINES or 1GP governing them? If not, then, why do we want a 1GP for the individually owned BHs?

5) Only less than 2% of the bird’s nest operation in the case of ECOPARKs is of large commercial scale operation like the big housing developments, the multibillion supermarkets, and the giant sized estates with thousands to million acres like SIME DARBY, IOI etc and the multimillion livestock farming. These super large sized investments may warrant and justify for a comprehensive guidelines to govern.

6) If this is the vision of our PM to encourage the fast growth of this industry so to tap its potential to compete with our neighbouring countries for the foreign revenue and wealth for this country and its people, why do we want 1GP acting like many huddles placing in front of these small individual investors? How are we in Malaysia to compete with our neighbouring countries counterparts who do not have any restrictions or hurdles from their Govt?

7) What is that so proud wanting to declare Malaysia as the world first country in the world to have 1GP for its bird’s nest industry? In actual fact, this is a self imposed handicap crippling ourselves. No wise leader would do that. Instead, the Govt should take off as many bureaucratic procedures as possible to let the industry move faster to outrun neighbouring countries to compete for the much needed hot money to aid our ailing internal economy. Instead of allocating RM600million to promote the 3 HIGH VALUED INDUSTRIES, that is RM200million each for the bird's nest industry, arowana farming and the sea weed culture, the Govt might as well withdraw the RM200million for the bird's nest industry and to give incentives such as pioneer status, exemption of yearly assesment, license fee and quit rent etc up to 5 to 10 years for all BH operaton.

8) Therefore, the best solution to achieve our PM’s vision is to just treat this industry as a normal industry to let it enjoy the same as other general trades under the Local Council of needing only one straight forward Lesen Premis for the BH operation without any hassle.

9) As to the recent PERHILITAN new Bill issue, a panel of professional experienced constitutional lawyers should be engaged to study the matter. Don’t get free or semi professionals or none constitutional lawyers to do it. We want only the best specialists to help in. If necessary, a court action can be considered.

10) We must insist complete hands off from the PERHILITAN on this industry with no compromise on whatsoever. Same time, please look into the alleged illegitimate impose of Exit Tax on nests exported that the PERHILITAN has been secretly and low profile collecting at the exit points since 2007 victimizing and terrorizing mainly out-going foreign tourists. Many foreigners were forced to pay bribe in order to be able to catch the plane. It is tarnishing Malaysia’s good image. Please bear in mind that, the PERHILITAN’s jurisdiction is only confined to the wild swiftlet nest from the natural caves on govt land. They may collect only certain fee on the wild nests harvested right at the spot inside the cave before the nests shifted out. Had they really have the jurisdiction, they need not to do it quietly and secretly. They are exploiting the grey area in the ACTS.

11) Please also be alerted that the PERHILITAN isn’t a department that have the jurisdiction to collect taxes on behalf of the Govt. Under the CONSTITUTIONS OF MALAYSIA the only departments specially assigned to collect taxes and revenue are the Inland Revenue Department and the Custom and Excise under the Ministry of Finance. However, the Ministry of Finance is encouraging the export of bird’s nest in exchange of foreign revenue, therefore, there is zero tax or duty for all nests exported. The collection of EXIT TAX on the bird’s nest by the PERHILITAN is thus illegal and illegitimate. Please investigate into this to confirm.

12) To form a task force comprised of professionals and volunteers to collect info from owners of malpractices committed on the industry by the various departments and to investigate.

13) To consider calling for a national signature campaign from all in the industry if situation warrants.

Thanks for the sharing info.

I would like to sign in the national signature campaign.

I will try to get some info about this PERHILITAN and if have it, will share with all.

Very logic and common sense articles . Good question put up as well. We seriouly need to look back and pull the bull by the horn.

Some information from the news.
================================================================

Skim penipuan pelaburan dibongkar

Oleh MOHD. FIRDAUS ISMAIL
pengarang@utusan.com.my

KUALA LUMPUR 10 Mei - Penipuan membabitkan skim pelaburan burung layang-layang yang mencecah nilai RM400,000 terbongkar selepas Suruhanjaya Syarikat Malaysia (SSM) melakukan serbuan ke atas premis Aeroswift Consultancy Sdn. Bhd. yang berpangkalan di Kulim, Kedah.

Menurut kenyataan SSM, modus operandi syarikat tersebut ialah menawarkan penjualan lot pelaburan rumah burung layang-layang kepada orang awam tetapi hak pengurusan dipegang syarikat.

"Syarikat ini menjanjikan pulangan kepada peserta dengan pembahagian keuntungan mengikut nisbah 80:20.

"Peserta skim berkenaan juga diyakinkan dengan nilai penjualan kasar sarang burung yang kononnya boleh mencecah nilai RM120,000 sebulan sekiranya pelaburan maksimum dilakukan," kata kenyataan itu yang dikeluarkan di sini hari ini.

Menurut kenyataan itu, siasatan kes tersebut dibuat mengikut peruntukan Seksyen 84(1) dan Seksyen 91(1) Akta Syarikat 1965.

Serbuan itu dibuat setelah pemantauan berterusan selama beberapa bulan terhadap syarikat itu.

Something I thought of it long ago and didn't do it @ agriculture land because of security @ Agriculture land.

Warning: Pekan swiftlets Association sms that there is a group of 6 having dangerous weapons stealing EBN from BHs in Pekan-Rompin area so be careful when approaching these thieves....cos they are armed.

Time are bad enough without Perhilitan coming in for a kill, too.......the Chinese saying should go like this." Front door, we have Perhilitan and back door, we have robbers".

HYENA IS STALKING???




The present situation of the Malaysia Bird’s Nest industry is definitely looked bad and gloomy enough with the greedy and unscrupulous evil agenda Govt department behaving like tiger pounding on the industry at the front gate while the thieves and the robbers are like leopards climbing on the roof at all time. And now, news or rumours of another hyena is approaching quietly from behind. We have just received an urgent email from someone claimed insider of the following, wanting us to relay it to the FED ASSO immediately to be discussed too in their EGM right now. We hope someone can do it. We are now too loss of words, and we also put it up here to invite your comments, opinions, and suggestions. Circumstantial evidences pointing to 20% chance, the info is untrue.
OH, THE ALMIGHTY GOD PLEASE HELP SAVE MALAYSIA AND ITS PEOPLE………..



Veterinary department has proposed strict control over the swiftlet nest business.

1 All premises will strictly adhere to GAHP recommendations
2 All exports to go through a governing body, to ensure quality and health standards. Presumably incl. price and to carry the "Product of Malaysia"
3 All processing to be done by approved factories to be able to enforce (2)
4 All Swiftlet Ranches will be registered and all produce will be recorded and traceable via RFID.
5 No unprocessed nests allowed to be exported

First, the Perhilitan smells Blood($) in this industry then the Health ministry want a say in the GP.....sooner or later, all government departments and agencies want a piece of the meat!!!

Words of Advice, sell your BH when it's high or otherwise they may just take it away.......................cara 1Malaysia!!!!!!

That is one of the major reasons why the profitabilty of this industry should not have been disclosed, especially in this forum.
Never even estimate how much is being exported, even speculation will make people jealous.

Now, everyone wants a piece of the action. It's quite obvious IRS will be making demands next.

Regardless of the high failure rate, the successful ones will be also sucked dry.

Again be AWARE that NGOs are reading this forum for ammunition against all swiftlet ranchers. We are the fools for keeping them well informed.

This company Aeroswift Consultancy Sdn. Bhd. sounds very familiar.

Is there any link with the Hairy Crab?!

Since started involved in the industry, within few weeks noticed is wild wild con world out there. All pretending like sifus gurus more like hantus. Price marked up several times. Salt can be sold as secret recipe. Shit can be treated as gold! From head to toes every 'sifus' also want a chuck of you. And now the mighty government departments have just declare war to slaughter this industry.

1GP = rakyat ditendang macam anjing. Perhilitan boleh!

My friend Tuck Fook.....you worried too much,

BH is infact a poor man dream to be rich just like buying lottery but here in BH, you don't lose.....you only draw as all investment will be refunded to you by the next guy who wish to try his luck at the Jack Pot. Share Market does not appeal to me at all cos they are manipulated by the super rich and powerful men.


It's just like gold mining, if you strike gold...you will be well taken care off in your old age and your children education be paid for but if you don't, never mind cos you still get back your investment. Head, you win and Tail, you draw ....so no problem.

Those Hyenas can smell blood and they have their sources even without you telling and what do you think the ECO guys are preaching all this while!!!!!! Pot of Gold at every BH invested and feed the hyenas with the taste of the good thing.......but if you haven't got lots of meat (EBN), no problem with them and only when you are successful, they will come to get their share of meat.

Here, what I wish is to have as many Malaysian esp Malay to be in the trade as most Malays do have idle land @ Kampung and there are poor malay as well as poor chinese and indian but the Malays have the advantages here as they do have lots of land.

We aren't selfish and we wish to teach all Malaysian irrespective of color or religion to be successful.......how to persuade and one way is to tell how good and easy it is to make from the trade unlike planting padi or others....and it is not lies cos Allah is almighty and if He wish to give, Alhamduellah.

The swiftlets come and go as they please and only God determine if they stay.....Amen.

ps....my intentions here are always for everybody to read especially the NGOs and the Authorities concerned.....hope that they do have heart.

Check this out.

http://www.kamalswift.com/blog/

Marketing man doing job for Aeroswift.

BTW, to West Wing and so many others, the industry owes you all a lot to make it more mainstream.

WW you are too noble, kind, and magnanimous.

I have no qualms in helping anyone start and do well in swiftlet ranching, as many people will testify. Anyone is welcome.

I definitely will not provide information that will be used against Swiftlet Ranching, seeing that I am already having a tremendously difficult time trying to convince the authorities that Swiftlet Ranching is good for everyone and even in towns. That we can co exist symbiotically, mutually beneficial.

None of my farms are at risk from being prohibited but many of my friends' are, as they have built within Georgetown. I am only trying to help prevent the destruction of many farms already operational within Georgetown(and other towns). I realised, in working together with DL several years ago that the future of ranches within urban areas, especially Heritage zones would be bleak. Unfortunate for some, once invested in high risk areas there was no way to relocate.

All I am requesting is that no information be provided to anyone, that may jeopardize the situation and destroy the livelihood of many many people relying on their existing ranches in Georgetown and similar areas under threat.

As is, I know of much information picked up from this forum that several NGOs have used to criticize Swiftlet Ranching.

The authorities have the concerns of all citizens, they would have nothing against any swiftlet ranch operating in urban areas if not for the hundreds of valid complaints they have received and are still receiving. The Authorities have to be fair, we have to be fair, for now and the future. In 99% of all the cases, the Swiftlet Ranch has been the recent intruder.

You are probably right, they already know, lets not remind them.

Lets FOCUS on the 1) Perhilitan's Wildlife Protection Bill 2010, on how we can be totally excluded from the greedy clutches of Perhilitan.
2) stringent controls that Veterinari and MOH may impose on Swiftlet Ranching, how we can negotiate for easier terms.
3) IRS so that Swiftlet Ranching may perhaps get a Tax exemption for 10 years or more. (high investment, high risk, pioneering status)

without having to answer to the bad publicity created by PHT, CAP, SAM, SPCA, B Warisan, Gen.Public and R Assoc.

I'm confident everyone will understand.

This post has been edited by tuckfook: May 11 2010, 10:27 PM

do we have anyone recording the journals or documentary to this thing? it will be good to have videographer to follow the issue live . like reality tv or documentary .

CRAP, CRAP, CRAP (must be said in 3s for emphasis)
So,.. we have here, fancy technology for it's own sake and lofty useless ideas for resolving non existing problems.
I must be out of circulation for a very long time. In that time DVS has become a successful business concern and..
is now consulting for the EBN industry. hmmm

NOTHING EVEN REMOTELY INITIATED BY THE GOVT HAS EVER SUCCEEDED OVER TIME.
STOP ALL THESE NONSENSICAL IDEAS, YOU ARE HELPING US TO AN EARLY DEATH.

This post has been edited by Cergau: May 11 2010, 11:42 PM

Well said, cergau…….can’t blame you for being that rough and impulsive…..first time…….yes, for anybody with slight knowledge of the industry would straight away feel this is nonsensical and would wonder if the department concerned is really that sincere to help or to kill it slowly with certain hidden agenda or ulterior motive……….that only he or she knows, you know and I know, the god knows ……..and everybody knows except the Ministers and those inside the Tanjung Rambutan don’t know………and best is we were still hoping that this is rumours……


This evening really feeling very down as I received again few bad news from messages received from different reliable sources to confirm the earlier post of the Veterinar department’s proposal that it is the truth and nothing but the true………..After I posted the earlier message, my few buddies and I were still not believing and were saying that this is another hoax for most of the industry active players are having good feeling that the Veterinar dept has been known the most sincere, helpful and truly at the people’s service……..all this while……….for the past many many years………Many owners have very high regards and respect for them and spoke of them like Zoro guarding us from been abused by other evil depts………. But all these shattered with our spectacles all dropped and smashed……..as we are feeling of being betrayed……….



Now, can we not to cry over spilled milk which wouldn’t help in here? Let’s help ourselves by keeping a real cool head for we are going to use it to do logical analysis. So far, we read only a few replies with general remarks in sarcasm or in anger from the few regulars. That is not good enough to help. I am proposing here that can we, each and everyone individually try to analyse and figure out very sensibly and logically what would be the impacts, outcome and the consequences on the people, the industry, and the country, if the industry representatives really agree to the proposals? And what should all of us do to counter? What are the best solutions?


It seems there are hundreds to even thousands have been enjoying reading and to find out the latest situations and developments of the industry here in this forum. But not many have participated in posting. Can I ask every one of you to help in to contribute in a very small way by sharing here your idea, at least, once, please? The representatives do really need to listen to as many ideas and suggestions as possible before all of us shall decide jointly the best next course of action to fend for the industry and our lifelines. Remember, it is still not late. Please start shooting in………..

In my opinion;

Reviewing the whole hystorical of Malaysia, when ever Government steps into an industry business, normally it end up - THE END..which some call them Giant company - in Malaysia.

Reviewing the trend of these Goverment Bodies keep coming into this Industry and setting new barrier (which previously without them also doing well), which is all is directing to allow MONOPOLY by thier own people. But they always see the opposite grass is greener, with the same old method they doing, this industry will definetely go down with their HELPs and GUIDANCE.

They may know and think that the CHINA market is the biggest but they do not aware and know how to do the business in CHIna...haha, a lot MULTI big company also roll up in CHina and quote - China is a very strange and difficult market to understand.

Im seeing some CON-sultant is highlighting to new comers that how attractive the return and did not mentioned the real RISK (20-30% success rate excluding other barrier.) to them.

I think a lot opportunist is looking at this industry is very attractive and did not know the real RISK....

A common human behaviour, if they aware it is difficult and a lot of problems yet not much return compare on the investment, they may stay away from it..

This post has been edited by Ivan Ho: May 12 2010, 10:09 AM

What do you guys think of MKLand?
I cannot tolerate anymore as the similarity of work ethics in there is exactly the same scenario in the attitude of public service men of this country. if i were to use one ethnic or race , i will be judge as a racist . u know which race is that but my fellow modern and educated bumi friend has also share the same sentiment with us as he knew many of the govt servants are quite extremist and very racist as well. they never mingle with other race except themselves. As you see , the thorn of this problem is deeper than you may have think.

MKLAND is one farking company that has the same thing going on in the management until they lost all the goodmen who worked those days to develop damansara perdana. Those guys were gone or vanish in thin air and were replaced by people brought up in the govt before. Everybody who stay there know the problem and many buyer refuse to buy their property.

What i have learn there ?

1) They like to find fault and implement new laws which are consider petty to us modern thinkers but that negligence is fatal just like a sinking submarine with too many holes in the end.

2) Success people always study the future and put aside minor problem but they can't . they plot, they find ways to harrass you every minute .

3) They are emotional and revengeful.

4) They want it their way, it's theirs. You are just pendatang.

Actually i can see many of my colleagues gave up and tired battling to survive by each day. And they are long enough working in this kind of company that can never be good or excel.

---

Added on May 12, 2010, 9:38 am
VEterinary dept, talk cock and bulls.... show us the money before u talk. build us the facilities, infrastructure and security before u talk.
People investment for this country is a good sign for everyone, hope we can remove all these bastards in the next general election.


This post has been edited by hackwire: May 12 2010, 09:38 AM

Lucas 1,
If there were sufficient emoticons to express my feelings then, you would have seen your screen burning and curling and smoking on the edges.
I was in a unique Malaysian emotional state that we have proudly contributed to the enrichment of the English language - AMOK.

cool cool...... friend.

Cool down, anger just make you self suffer.....cool

time to have Kit Kat.

This article about captures hackwire's ranting on this matter.
A nation on the brink of failure

Discovered another gem of an expression....
"They are like a baby: An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other"!
Enough to make my morning

Dear All,

I think we have diverted a bit from Lucas ideal...

Cool down . . .

Ivan Ho,
Not really...this is 'Scenario Setting'
Some stuff can't be dealt with in isolation, the overall scheme of things need to be accounted for an accurate reflection of the reality.
If you want to crawl out of a shit hole, one has to look around if there are any more such holes, or everyone in the country has one marked with their name on it. How deep each is so we know how much it can contain...get my drift? and lots more consideration before you start to analyse the shit.
My natural reaction is 'TAK NAK'...why would a sane person even want to consider how to get out of the shit in the eventuality that we do get into the shit. When the sane response should be 'GO AWAY WITH YOUR SHIT AND DONT COME NEAR'

It really goes against my grain to give credence to such utter mindless drivel by discussing them like there were GOD's own commandments.
I however will make exceptions since everyone is speechless from awe of such 'brilliance' propounded by the very dept that the Cabinet picked to lead this whole process...and rumoured to be sympathetic to our plight.

1 All premises will strictly adhere to GAHP recommendations
Here's a copy if you (as I) have not read this in detail.
http://www.jphpk.gov.my/swiftlets%20GAHP.pdf
I cant find it in the HQ site, this is from the Perak branch of DVS.
I can't find any form of versioning , so if you hv a copy in hand, you will need to compare to guess which is more current.
More laughable detailed guidelines are in here.
Enjoy.!!!
Please share the jokes from the doc on the forum for everyone's enjoyment after you hv read thru.

While I work on the more serious shit. [Watch for more Updates]
Still on the serious matter of serious shit.
http://zorro-zorro-unmasked.blogspot.com/2...rganic-pkr.html

Well, carry on the exchange of ideas. We have heard enough of cursing and swearing. We need now to listen to more practical analysis, suggestions and would be solutions. Please try to focus more specifically on the Vet’s proposals. Think majority of us now more eager to know what are the positive and negative impacts on, the consequences and would be scenarios of the industry if the industry forced to accept the offer?


But till now, we still don’t hear new ideas from new voices. Rather discouraging……..Could the new voices please speak up? Remember, all ideas are welcome. No idea is bad idea. We need to select the most suitable idea…….


Meanwhile, could somebody mind help to download and paste the GAHP here to convenience for viewing and discussion?

We are all focusing on Perhilitan as our only enemy but beware of our back side; our so called friendly departments that we must also be careful, too incase of back stepping. Infront, we can see and take defensive action but what about our back side where we are totally blind. Let's hope that there are no "Udang sebalek batu" .


Government's full support and relaxation of controls and conditions are necessary for any industry to be successful during the teething period, Imposing too stringent controls over the swiftlets Industry will only deter investors from investing in the industry and also those in the industry from expanding.

Although, some general controls, rules and regulations are deemed necessary for healthy growth of the industry but too much unnecessary controls, rules and regulations will scare away investors. Investors' friendly government policies over the industry is utmost priority so as to give interested investors confidence to invest or reinvest for the future of the industry.

Remembered that Great Caesar was murdered by the friendly Brutus and so be careful of who walking behind you too.....

Our ministers and all departments concerned should go to Korea to study how they are so successful in marketing their ginseng and its by-products locally or abroad. Do a write-up and tell us all how they do it so successfully so that all concerned makes no mistake about it in policy making! We've come a long way to this day in swiftlet farming without any assistance given from the Government. We show you the money and now it's time you show us a promising future we have to compete with Korea using our bird nest and our natioanal car in which you take great pride. We beat them in Badminton is one good example...

Regulatory Status of Codes of Practice
While the codes certainly serve an important adjunct to expert/testimony in the revice Animal Ordinance 1953, they should not and of themselves be used to determine compliance or the legality of a particular operation. Codes are recommended guidelines not required standards.

While I do not fully understand what the above paragraph (lifted frm the GAHP) means
I do have a few points I would like to share below

2.5 Identification and records
2.5.2 Useful records include: species, acquisition/disposition, incubation period, hatched date, flock/batch number, fertilized eggs acquired from, and owernership. The date and mode of any treatment or medication, breeding history, and bloodline records can be added on.
Essentially a log of all activities of each individual bird from the egg stage...Banyak bagus!

2.5.3 Permanent identification (microchip ring tag) of some of the pioneer breeders is needed for legal proof of ownership. These shall in the future be, at the National Animal Registrar Office, stationed at the Department of Veterinary Services Headquarters. Annual renewal of the licenses shall be deemed a must, which goes concurrently with the compulsory random health checks of the birds and premise by registered Veterinary authority, the Local Government and Health Ministry.
Wah!!! A unique ID for each bird. Getting better!!!
I am wondering if DVS Walet site is for registering each individual bird or BH??

3.1 Water and feed
3.1.3 Where environmental, seasonal, or stocking density effects do not allow daily insect feed requirements to be met, supplemented insects bolus feed can be offered.
3.1.4 Specific trace mineral requirements can be met with supplements. Exotic birds may have different requirements for minerals such as cooper, selenium or cobalt than those of conventional animals.
Do we weigh all the hatchlings each day like babies to chart proper growth?

3.3 Restrain
3.3.1 Restrain is required for procedures such as tagging and medication.
3.3.2 Use of currently available chemical immobilizing agents is legally restricted to licensed registered veterinarians an other authorized personnel.
3.3.3 Chemical immobilization should not be used where birds might injure or disorient themselves or become separated from human care, for example near open water, extensive woodland or steep slopes.
3.3.4 Following chemical immobilization, birds should be kept upright in a dark, confine, dry flat area and kept under observation until sufficient recovery has occurred to avoid risks of trauma, regurgitation or accidental injury. It is best to wrap anaesthetized birds with towels to prevent hypothermia.
3.3.5 Birds recovering from chemical immobilization behave strangely and may traumatised itself or be attacked by other objects.
So to attach the chip ring tag, you may need to hire specialist to immobilise the birds!!
I refuse to read on.

GAHP has been mentioned for at least a year when I first stumbled on this forum.
How did all these alien breeding recommendations have stayed on for so long in the GAHP?
Didnt all the sifus here have the presence of mind to challenge DVS then?
All your local assoc and the Feds have just been shown to be just as clueless with recent events.

[quote=Cergau,May 12 2010, 06:43 PM]
Regulatory Status of Codes of Practice
While the codes certainly serve an important adjunct to expert/testimony in the revice Animal Ordinance 1953, they should not and of themselves be used to determine compliance or the legality of a particular operation. Codes are recommended guidelines not required standards.

I am wondering if DVS Walet site is for registering each individual bird or BH??[/b][/color]


[/quot

1. Proof of ownership.......Hey! for goodness sake!!! we are taking free flying swiftlets that don't belong to you or me. They come and go as they please...how to proof of ownership and why need to do so.

2. Tagging ??? I don't see a reason for it at all and it cause stress and maybe death to the fast flying swiftlets if we are to tag the swiftlets. Has anyone done it and succeed? No because I truly believe that any additional weight to the swiftlets will cause the swiftlets to die as we understand that the swiftlets feed while flying and cannot afford to have the slightest error. Catching an insect while flying fast need precision flying and accurately but by adding weight on one leg will offset the equilibrium and control of their flight. Instate of the fly go into the mouth, it may hit the swiftlet in the eye and now, we will have one eyed swiftlet. Or the swiftlet may die of hunger.

3. I don't agree to any manual feeding of swiftlet by human being as human can cause contamination and disease to the swiftlets thru food and hand. Only if the swiftlet is injured, we may apply the method to treat the birds but the changes of surviving such injury is rather small. I rather let GOD decide if the injured bird is going to survive or not by placing the swiftlet in to my Bh irrespective of where I found the injured swiftlet. From this method, I have saved many swiftlets from have fallen to the ground from neighbouring BH during their maiden flight by placing the fallen swiftlets into my BH and the swiftlets do survive.

I have been successful in saving fallen chicks that fell to the floor accidentally by putting the chicks back into the nests. How it is done is to ensure that the fallen chick be put back into the same nest by observing the size of the remaining chick in the nest. Just remember that AF swiftlet produce 2 chicks and if you care enough for the fallen chick, you will help it to find it's nest.

This post has been edited by West Wing: May 12 2010, 08:40 PM

Let's be fair, most "Sifus" don't read English or Malay. At that time nobody expected to have to deal with DVS, after all DVS seemed to be on our side of the battle.

All concentration was on surviving the onslaught of the local councils, from having our BHs being pulled down.

The Seminars organised by DVS never explained that we had to follow the GAHP, it was only a recommendation, we just had to attend the seminars and obtain a cert. to enable us to be considered for a license issued by the local council. On top of that it was free, incl. refreshments and lunch.

We always thought that DVS was there to help us. We were not in the position to question DVS when they were helping us!

I don't know about the attendance of the Associations but ASNI did not exist then. Most of those I know who attended were also new to swiftlet ranching, as I was and were absolutely clueless in this aspect. We just went and listened because we had to. Went home chucked the booklet away because it was too difficult to understand what was inside and waited for the cert. to arrive.

DVS never made any demands so most people left it as that.

I been wondering about licensing in malaysia. When comes to this point where so much money is in this industry , all depts in the govt will spent countless of meetings in the boardroom just to create unjustifiable rulings and red tapes regardless of their experience . One guy will sit on his PC and starts to creates all the Boxes of the Flow Chart probably with the latest Powerpoint .

Than Puan XXX feels there's a need to improve the income for the dept by again drafting out new rules and license so that their men have task to work on from 11am - 3pm.

8am - 9am (breakfast)
9am - 10am (read mail and memo)
10am - 11am (break again before depart)

11am - 1pm (ronda-ronda and finding BH)

1pm - 2pm (lunch)
2pm - 3pm ( head home)
3pm - 4pm ( report and go home)

And then Monday - Friday is (Illegal Day) , Sat - Sunday is (Legal Day) Office tutup.

This thing go on and on every day.

If we look at the Pirated DVD and disc in Summit Shopping Center or in any shoplot, do u see the licensing of original DVD is necessary even if there are Copyrights law? And how about all the bootleg stuff in Petaling Street or Chinatown? I mean does the govt time place on new laws on swiftlet is so relevant as compare to the billion of dollars lost , job lost to the underworld kingpin in the pirated and bootleg product. And with the corruption practice in the enforcement and govt dept for not able to close down all these shops and supporting the underworld business is significant as compare to the swiftlet industry? They can't even solve the problem in the other industry and now they want to enforce absurd laws .

Bodoh punya gomen!

This post has been edited by hackwire: May 13 2010, 09:15 AM

Thanks Cergau for your sharing..

But on another way of thinking, this SHIT is big although is not ours....the STINK smell still can reach us some how.....

just a thought....Cheers

My purpose of providing the zorro hyperlink was there is a moral to the article.
When you see shit you dun go probing, checking, smelling and tasting it and then eventually step OVER it, BUT still leaving it in place.
Shovel it away.
That was the thrust of my long rant......

To yr comment...
If BIG SHIT, you have to adhere to DOE guideline to dispose.
Small shit, shovel and flush away.
No shit, no smell

Have you watched this old movie 'The Gods Must be Crazy' and the Coke bottle?
They have never seen a Coke bottle.
But you have seen and smelt shit. So you recognise shit.
As such you need not act like those tribal folks and carry the shit around wondering what to do with it.
The Coke bottle was meant to be discarded. (Garbage disposal)
Shit is meant to be flushed away. (Sewage disposal)

Or if you are so inclined to deal with babies you can choose to toilet train them!

This post has been edited by Cergau: May 13 2010, 01:23 PM

So, you did saw the movie, and I thought that I was the only crazy guy watching the movie.........

I was OK until I watched that crazy movie and now, I think I am really crazy.....hahahaha

I didnt,...... I read about it.

anyone here got a BH? successful?

Are you kidding??? So Many and if you asked, anyone here having unsuccessful Bh, you get similar answers, too.......

You must be new and what can we do for you???? Hunting for a successful BH, you came to the right place if the price is great! Nothing in the world cannot be sold.................people with principle are so rare and I am one of those rare but crazy one.

Let me tell you a story, few years ago, 2 JPJ officers stop my car and told me that I was speeding and I protested that I didn't. The officers were very rude and demand my driving license and gave me a ticket and told me that if I disagreed, I can go to court.

I went to my local JPJ ofice to see the Boss here and asked that the summon be cancelled because I didn't commit the offence as stated. The Pengurus told me that the best he can do is to give my 50% discount but I don't want to admit guilty. To pay is to admit guilty guity so I went to court and after 7 times and over one year, I finally won my case. My wife said that I was a fool and those lawyers I saw over the year @ the court house told me that if Malaysia has many people with principle like me, lawyers will be rich. I spend over 3 thousand ringgits for a Rm300 summon.......and driving over 100 km to the court to hear..." Case Postpone to another date"

Everyone has been telling me to pay the summon @ 50% discount but me and my principle and it was really very costly and my lawyer told me that there was no way to sue JPJ to claim all the expenses incurred.

The moral of story is no matter if we are totally right, we sometime need to compromised and settle peacefully or else, we end up being the only loser................... so in case if we need to compromise, I think that we should.....What do you think?????

Depends on one's values
1)Financial - You lost money which is replaceable
2)Justice - You gained in integrity which in some circumstances no amt of money can purchase the opportunity to regain
You walked out of the court poorer but your head held high, a longer lasting sense of achievement that stayed with you that enable you today to recount the story for our benefit. Plus you know in your heart of heart you were right to pursue to it's just end finances permitting.
Do you not think that it's this very mass compromises of ones values that has taken our country to such a shameful state?
I am of course assuming everyone has been brought up the right way to carry such values throughout their life.


This post has been edited by Cergau: May 13 2010, 10:15 PM

[.......continuation]

2 All exports to go through a governing body, to ensure quality and health standards. Presumably incl. price and to carry the "Product of Malaysia"
3 All processing to be done by approved factories to be able to enforce (2)
4 All Swiftlet Ranches will be registered and all produce will be recorded and traceable via RFID.
5 No unprocessed nests allowed to be exported

Interpreted as.....
Only processed EBN shall be exported. Raw EBN shall undergo processing in approved plants.
A governance body shall be setup to ensure quality and health standards in such plants and the EBN it processes.
Processed EBN from such plants are eligible for "Product of Malaysia" labelling and shall be tagged with RFID chips for traceability.
The body shall set pricing of the processed EBN.

Since these are based on assumtion/speculation I can only come out with points in question form......
pls add on or comment

1)Quality and Health Standards
Whose standards. Presumably importing country?
Variable stds for each intended target country?
Require certification from target countries.?
At what cost vs the potential market value?

2)Proposed target market
Any market survey that indicate an unfulfilled demand for such premium processed EBN?
Customers are willing to pay a premium over the ordinarily processed EBN?
What value of potential market?

3)RFID tagging
(Packaging and/or in/on EBN)
Avoid illegal trades in controlled specie? AF is no longer under CITES thus unnecessary.
Establish origin in case of complaints?
Is it established that a after sale servicing is required from the country of origin?
Isn't this a duplicated function of local consumer rights agencies?
Piracy of 'Product of Malaysia' labeling? Brand value is not established.
(the technical questions on RFID on either packaging or on/in EBN is left out and be treated separately if required)
(BHs)
Comment reserved until process and objectives are known.

4)Cost
Application of new lower cost cleaning method?
Scientifically established that new cleaning method does not produces an inferior product?
Costing has established lower than the current labour intensive method?
Cost reduction is not a stated objective.

5)Controlled pricing
Any study on the eventual end product costing that are comparable and favorable to current pricing.
What are the proposed pricing mechanism for the purchase of the raw EBN?
How will the enforcement of pricing be carried out?
New set of laws to forbid non sanctioned buying and selling of either raw or processed EBN?

6)Benefits
How does it benefit the raw EBN sellers.
What other quantifiable benefits?

7)Processing plants
Where are the proposed geographic locations?
Logistics? Distributed selling centres?


8)Exports through governing body
Monopoly of any trade distorts the market and introduces inefficiencies.
Compounded by previous points above will introduce additional cost without any apparent benefits.
Will more likely than not render Malaysian produced EBN be less competitive in the world market.

West Wing is truly a rare species and needs protection from Perhilitan and our Justice System.

I disagree...
WW shd be encouraged to take on ALL injustices so that
Perhilitan and our Court systems reverts to it's right course
Perhilitan and our Court systems will need protection from WW...but I hope the protection fails
why does it take so long, and thus increases the cost of seeking justices
and that shd start with some of the injustices that affect the EBN industry

This post has been edited by Cergau: May 13 2010, 10:43 PM

We all @ forum are rare species but then we are alone cos the majorities are just watching us like as if we are on stage.

That's the problem with our society, most of our raayat are of the tidak apa altitude and think that others will do the job. I have been forwarding and telling my local Association to do this and that but end up mostly not done or that I need to do them. I was telling one of the key officer the other day about the GP and the wildlife Act. his remark was what is the urgency as the GP and wildlife Act are still not here.....just like a ship going to high sea and most of the crews are not prepare for storm or pirates and most of them telling you why worried so much, there is no storm or pirate......

I believe this is not only happening at my town but it is the same in every town.........they will expect someone else will take care of the problem until the fire burn their houses, then they will cry for help and jump up and down.

BHs owners or investors should go to your local associations to urge them to take positive actions and go to the emergency meeting of the Fed Association to push your points thru otherwise, don't blame others when you drown. If you are concerned about your BH, your future and your retirement, do it for yourself and never expect others to do all your fighting for you.

I am going to take at least 3 months leaves from swiftlets matter as I am suffering from a new form of illness........."swiftlet Mania" and need to change my life without swiftlets. Sleepless nights and I am getting old. We have many capable young men like Cegau and others who have the energy to fight. We can depend on you guys and hope many others will join you.

To lose money for Justice and gained respect OR to save money but lost all respect, dignity, intergrity, pride and principle?


Compromise? Compromise with whom and for what? Compromise with Evils and Corrupts? You must be kidding………


I would rather fight to the end with the Evils and Corrupts and kill as many Evils and Corrupts, if not all and die standing with my children and grand children forever proud of their grandfather than knee down like a coward to let them shy and hideaway in life from mocking for being descendents of a selfish, man with no principle, pride, dignity, intergrity and with no balls………….. We only compromise for JUSTICE, FAIRNESS, EQUALITY and MUTUAL RESPECT, but never, never, never, never with EVILS and CORRUPTS. And we fear no one but GOD……….

Well said.
Allow me to put it in a different way to all you folks who come here seeking assistance.
It's the only decent thing to do in return to the kindness of folks helping take your 1st steps .........
IF YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION....YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

(1)3 months leaves ....?
It's unhealthy to stay away from routine for this long. Too disruptive. This routine kept you alive for so long, breaking it means staying away from things keeping you alive. Logical ?
(2)"swiftlet Mania" ?
It' called LOVE....looks, sounds, encourages craziness. And we all crave for it. Why cure it?
(3)Sleepless nights.....?
Solution- Sleep in the day...in short naps (siesta)...research shows less stress for heart, instead of fighting it and try staying awake
(4)I am getting old..........
Aren't we all. You are not the only one inflicted with this disease. Contradictory. People in love feels young.
(5)young men like Cegau
If I had the pleasure of meeting you, you will probably address me as 'uncle' in return. So you are mistaken.
Reality is, I may not have the continuing pleasure and honour of fighting alongside all the old soldiers here for as long as you had initially thought.

BTW, I was pulling you leg ......I did watch 'THE GODS MUST BE CRAZY' 3 times over 10 years.

Take a deep breath brother!
So, you too need to sleep in the day..posting at 03.26AM???
Are you writing this while on the roof top or
while taking off you mask, cape and costume?
The LOUD way you respond to even a mention of INJUSTICE and CORRUPTION shows.....
What a guy...you fight for the downtrodden awake, asleep, day and night.
Wah, you take EBN every meal AHhh?

On a more serious note......
Take a step back and reflect
WHY do we have to attend to such endless onslaught of repressive regulations?
HOW did these regulations even get to see the light of day?
It is beyond me.

Is it so difficult for the civil servants to think of us as being in the same company MALAYSIA INCORPORATED (MI).
[to be continued......]

The only 'consolation' is there are many other industries suffer the same.

Seafood processing industry http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?f...72&sec=business, seafood wholesalers where 'special' icebox is mandatory to be taken from one source, local cigar sunset industry which depends on the mercy on income tax dept yearly annoucement whether to treat them equal as major cigrette manufacturers whereby it will be as good as close shop, uncontrolled trawlings by local and foreign fishers even in the present of our marine guards and navy around causing extensive damages to fisheries ground, tender procedures of major gomen projects tat classified 'race' as main criteria ... and the latest world cup betting given to one party without proper open tender and the circus going on and on.

It is untolerated but it is a misfortune that many Malaysians prefer to keep quiet and see this evil force creep into their life. And yes, there is small number who speak out and it is increasing daily. Younger generations are getting more outspoken. Just see number of blogs growing each day. But unfortunatre many prefer to fight only when their backyard caught fire.

Friend of mine who owns 12-13 still continue to build w/o knowing what happen, another one saying all ok in Dato Beh's good hand!? Like to see MCA taikors response when own backyard caught fire.

stay hungry, stay foolish...

working towards a win-win guideline is crucial...however, lots of shit slinging ain't going to help.

i believe the government is fully supportive of this industry, why else would it be worth a mention in the 2010 budget.

for those whom plan to start, get started.
for those whom in operation, reform and comply.

Bobby C,
I can identify with your sentiments.
It is sad that instead of quoting success stories as benchmarks what we can often quote are 'bad examples'.
Yes, the younger set is better informed thus will eventually and collectively reach a critical mass to set a new course for the country.
There is little time for regrets, with the last flame that remain in many of us, we shall light the way for the younger ones to then forge their own destiny.
I hope to see the ship change course to head the right way before my own dim light is snuffed out for good.
Some unsolicited reassurance........
Do not despair, many hopeless battles on hindsight were won just by sheer tenacity and doggedness.
The least we can do is spread the truth as we see it to those without the means to alternative news.
In most cases it will not be far from the absolute truth in comparison to the lies that are spread by the controlled media.

akin to.....
continue staying foolish..
go hungry
this is not even close to an even match
1 side puts zero on the table, the other puts everything on the table
The common objective...MALAYSIA INCORPORATED..or in simple terms ...the nation's good shd be the common objective
To elaborate, 1 side has nothing to lose, the other everything...
We are NOT in competition, win-win do not feature

if there's no shit, there will not be any to sling with, is there?
BIKIN TAK SERUPA CAKAP..... is not a foreign invention imported at great expense
I respect your choice of... comply 'come what may'
There are others would like see more control over their fate and choice of an alternative.
Are we a monopoly to a captive world market that we can weather all kinds of regressive actions?
How will all these top-down mis-guidelines help enhance the industry's competitiveness?
Let's not go on rhetorics!
Explore your strength of your confidence in the government by going through each point in resp to DVS rumoured intentions.
(an assurance that this will not be "much ado about nothing", and wasteful...the "rumour" is a feeler from the originating source)
In any imaginary way or method, play DVS part and respond to my questions?
I welcome rebuttals as I do not for 1 min fancy myself as having a monopoly of smarts on this forum.
an invitation to Shoot! in all my humility.

This post has been edited by Cergau: May 14 2010, 01:30 PM

Yes, we will act when time comes. In the mean time, putting up small flames and carry out small battles.

Never let my daughter says to me one day, 'Dad, why you sit silent and do nothing last time. It is too late to return. Now I have to follow great great grandpa time to migrate and suffer for the next generations to come! Because of the sins of your generation, we younger generations are paying the price now!!'

This post has been edited by Bobby C: May 14 2010, 01:48 PM

In the midst of the gloom, I thought I will share some light hearted moments to spread some cheer
A gem a day keeps the blues away

Najib in Sibu sounds just like a cop/official trying to solicit a bribe
At the gathering attended by some 1,000 local Chinese school teachers Najib also presented financial allocations
of RM15 million for 65 Chinese schools in the district and RM3 million for two mission schools.
The RM15 million includes an allocation of RM5 million to five independent Chinese secondary schools in Sibu.
The remaining RM10 million was allocated for the 60 government-aided Sibu Chinese primary schools.

“I will deliver what you want, you must deliver what I want and you know what I want,”

selected comments
(1)tuan, I tak paham lah tuan, macam mana settle?

(2)aiya, there is a perfectly innocent explanation (PIE) to your somewhat cynical remark about our His C4'ness, the Loser of Jet Engines, the Commissioner (35% commision) of Unsinkable Submarines, the Defender of the Sodomized, the Second Husband of the First Wife, Dear (as in :"Expensive") Leader Na$1b of 1UMNO.
He is merely using his skills to encourage participation of stupid pendatangs from Sibu to vote for him is this Divinely UMNO controlled Demoneycracy. What's wrong with that? Al-UMNOdollarlah.

http://www.malaysia-today.net/index.php?op...s&Itemid=100132

But what happen after you go to court? So what did u get in the end? Did you get to sue the policemen for negligence or even corrupt?

I was once told by a roadblock police officer that i was speeding and i told him to proof it to me. he can't and he said the hiding officer can proof it, so i ask them to sent the Photo as evidence and the summon to my house since he want it. The officer ask me to jalan...

another time when i received a police summon in slim river and saying i was speeding . i wrote them back and said to them that if they can't produce the photo as evidence i will not abide. than they ask me to pay certain amount for the photo and i did as that by post. everything was done through mailing system for 7 months without having me to go to Slim River. After that they sent the photocopy one and i make the payment to them.

i know many people will already just settle with it without even asking for proof.

WW, that was a good principle and you didn't do anything wrong at all. You dont need to compromise for this but you would have to go further to find out what they did so wrong and sue them back.

Arrh, lost opportunity to do it the classic way.
You shd have sent them a photocopied cheque.

A HK resident did that and he received a photocopied arrest warrant in the mail.

[quote=hackwire,May 14 2010, 06:38 PM]
But what happen after you go to court? So what did u get in the end? Did you get to sue the policemen for negligence or even corrupt?

Oh…Suspension from driving, that’s what I get for fighting my case with JPJ, JPJ wrote me a letter demanding that I surrender my driving license to the nearest JPJ office within a week for accumulating 3 summons; mind you that I have 3 cars under my name which my wife and sons may used. So, normally, I just paid the summons as I don’t who was driving at that time………even my friend told me that he at least has over 10 summons each year and he’s still driving……..this is one of the ways the department get back to you for taking them to court; Honesty and principle can’t survive in a corrupted, unfair and unjust world. At last, I was the loser, having to depend on my wife to dive me like a OKU during the period of suspension....luckily, they didn't have my license for life, then I will be OKU for life......again me and my principle and any lawyer here, are you laughing cos guys @ this forum are all Men with Principle and you gonna be pretty rich

No worry, I am me and always be me, a Man with Principle and they can take away my license, take away my money and even take away my life but they can never take away my Principle.....

#no swiftlets matter from me, Doctor's order ie my wife.


One last question……I know that the Fed Committee have met and they went to see MCA President over the matter and what’s the outcome???? I heard that MCA President met PM over the matter, right? Best if someone check it out….

This post has been edited by West Wing: May 15 2010, 07:11 PM

i feel u . they get back to you with all their resources they have and make you payback for your previous mistake.

i know for one thing very sure is that the authority also use thugs to find and locate people's place, vehicles etc as dirty as they could . So you can see for yourself that there's not much different when authority are back up by thugs and thugs are back up by authority.

speaking of principle, somehow there are still people who are still around who surviving on the daily believes . Reminding me of the the movie I am Legend - Will Smith only survivor who are immune to virus.

Anyway, we pity those who are what they are and forever their generation will be always in hiding and never see the sun light before . They smell shit and thought they are breathing fresh air. that's the different i thought so. With better principle , you have better sense of being and sixth sense to guide your journey in life.

Most feel helpless over the whole situation in the country and dont know what to do.
There are those who know what to do but fear the consequences.
There are those who has taken the whole lot in...and know what to do and not fear the consequences.
Why so? We are not the only country that are governed by humans who are susceptible to the craze for power and greed.
You would think that once the evil is got rid of, the jails will be full of these criminals?
It doesn't work that way....the victims will have to learn to forgive...there are already people writing about it in Malaysia.
Read here in Wiki what South Africa did after apartheid was overthrown.
Truth and Reconciliation Commission (South Africa)

As I have yet to discover a gem for the day, something to leave you pensive.

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
THEN THEY CAME for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
THEN THEY CAME for me and by that time no one was left to speak up."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...

This post has been edited by Cergau: May 16 2010, 08:52 AM

Im new to this subforum but im not new to swiftlet farming.

No offense but i noticed this subforum doesnt discuss anything about swiflet farmings except the links given in the first post. Mostly discussion about political issues and side stories.

welcome mois,
You happened onto here during the lull before the storm while awaiting feedback from human interfaces to the power that be.
The initial discussion on these impending storms were started somewhere in V2.
The hottest issues faced currently are regulatory in nature as such it tends to drift into politics and bad experiences in enforcements.
Most technical discussions (when most on here were themselves newbies) were discussed in V1 and some new development in V2.
You are now on V3. Most technical stuff are on the 1st few postings on V2 kindly archived and brought forward by fellow forumers here.
Whatever this forum is, is a reflection of everyone here including yrself. Post away as you deem fit.
Repeated Qs (as in discussed previously) are most often than not ignored until responded to by the next candidate for sainthood

no offense, this is all about swiftlet farming and it you are not getting as what been expected, you should ask more related quetion and i believe more people will help to chip in. we don't discuss politics as you mention but the pain of the industry and the bureaucratic of it. We hope you are able to turn or twist the discussion around pro actively if you have anything to share for discussion and what you feel about the current problem instead of ignoring it. We would like to hear your opinion on the problems which will face the industry and you too .

welcome to the only discussion group on this swiftlet farming . other information you can get is either going to the blogs which were already posted in the V1 already.

Politics play an integral part in our live whether you like it or not. You cannot dissect it from your life unless you live on an island isolated from the next human being.
My fore-fathers always dun want to discuss or always avoid politics. Kept on saying leave the politics to others and mind 'our own business', till one day they came and take away the business of milling rice!
They couldn't do anything cos their association were not politically strong enough to defend them!
...............by that time no one was left to speak up!