That is one of the major reasons why the profitabilty of this industry should not have been disclosed, especially in this forum.
Never even estimate how much is being exported, even speculation will make people jealous.

Now, everyone wants a piece of the action. It's quite obvious IRS will be making demands next.

Regardless of the high failure rate, the successful ones will be also sucked dry.

Again be AWARE that NGOs are reading this forum for ammunition against all swiftlet ranchers. We are the fools for keeping them well informed.

WW you are too noble, kind, and magnanimous.

I have no qualms in helping anyone start and do well in swiftlet ranching, as many people will testify. Anyone is welcome.

I definitely will not provide information that will be used against Swiftlet Ranching, seeing that I am already having a tremendously difficult time trying to convince the authorities that Swiftlet Ranching is good for everyone and even in towns. That we can co exist symbiotically, mutually beneficial.

None of my farms are at risk from being prohibited but many of my friends' are, as they have built within Georgetown. I am only trying to help prevent the destruction of many farms already operational within Georgetown(and other towns). I realised, in working together with DL several years ago that the future of ranches within urban areas, especially Heritage zones would be bleak. Unfortunate for some, once invested in high risk areas there was no way to relocate.

All I am requesting is that no information be provided to anyone, that may jeopardize the situation and destroy the livelihood of many many people relying on their existing ranches in Georgetown and similar areas under threat.

As is, I know of much information picked up from this forum that several NGOs have used to criticize Swiftlet Ranching.

The authorities have the concerns of all citizens, they would have nothing against any swiftlet ranch operating in urban areas if not for the hundreds of valid complaints they have received and are still receiving. The Authorities have to be fair, we have to be fair, for now and the future. In 99% of all the cases, the Swiftlet Ranch has been the recent intruder.

You are probably right, they already know, lets not remind them.

Lets FOCUS on the 1) Perhilitan's Wildlife Protection Bill 2010, on how we can be totally excluded from the greedy clutches of Perhilitan.
2) stringent controls that Veterinari and MOH may impose on Swiftlet Ranching, how we can negotiate for easier terms.
3) IRS so that Swiftlet Ranching may perhaps get a Tax exemption for 10 years or more. (high investment, high risk, pioneering status)

without having to answer to the bad publicity created by PHT, CAP, SAM, SPCA, B Warisan, Gen.Public and R Assoc.

I'm confident everyone will understand.

This post has been edited by tuckfook: May 11 2010, 10:27 PM

Let's be fair, most "Sifus" don't read English or Malay. At that time nobody expected to have to deal with DVS, after all DVS seemed to be on our side of the battle.

All concentration was on surviving the onslaught of the local councils, from having our BHs being pulled down.

The Seminars organised by DVS never explained that we had to follow the GAHP, it was only a recommendation, we just had to attend the seminars and obtain a cert. to enable us to be considered for a license issued by the local council. On top of that it was free, incl. refreshments and lunch.

We always thought that DVS was there to help us. We were not in the position to question DVS when they were helping us!

I don't know about the attendance of the Associations but ASNI did not exist then. Most of those I know who attended were also new to swiftlet ranching, as I was and were absolutely clueless in this aspect. We just went and listened because we had to. Went home chucked the booklet away because it was too difficult to understand what was inside and waited for the cert. to arrive.

DVS never made any demands so most people left it as that.

DVS has never been against swiftlet ranching. DVS is probably the only Government Department to have actively encouraged this activity. The ECO park groups had nothing to do with this so don't give them the credit !

DVS recommends stringent controls for the "betterment" of this activity.

There are many types of bleach being used and some of them may form poisonous residues.

Hydrogen peroxide is often used, it is relatively slow, does not get the nests very white but it is nutritionally safe.

Chlorine bleach is being used by some. It leaves a slight smell which goes away after a while. Some chlorine compounds formed may be carcinogens.

There are very many other bleaches used in other industries which may not be suitable for food items.

Basically, the points against bleaching is that it is no longer organically treated. ie it has been adulterated which may affect the efficacy. Since natural white nests which are nicely shaped, fetch a higher price with it's relation to white being more beautiful, (sales pitch) as in nicely formed cups (as in bras), in so doing, by bleaching and re molding, these then are no longer natural but often declared as natural. There might be no objections if these were declared as such but the it would defeat the purpose/price.

Currently, there is no control over the type of bleach used because it is done by unregistered factories hence there is no knowing what chemicals were used, whether safe or otherwise. Similarly, with colouring, preservatives and packaging materials. Some of the many reasons for having registered processing factories.

With registered processing factories, the products are traceable and regular batch testing will identify any potential health issues hence measures could be taken before the product reaches the market. The offending factory could be suitably reprimanded and in doing so, it protects the whole industry.

As in the milk scare, the source was quickly identified and measures taken before the whole industry lost it's credibility.

Hypothetically, under current conditions, if one nest exported from Malaysia was found to be tainted with a poison, it will be likely that all exports of nest from Malaysia would be held for inspection and tests. The credibility of Malaysian nests would suffer a heavy blow. The industry will take a long time to recover as consumers would always be wary of Malaysia.

So, for the future of this industry, registered processing plants would be a necessity to create worldwide market confidence as well as protecting everyone from that one bad apple.

It is unlikely that there will be a monopoly in registered processing plants. It is too easy for suppliers to create problems, enough to close it down. The competition will be healthy. Unlike other food products, the producers can store their nests and with hold selling to the factory. The factory employs many people and without nests to clean but salaries to pay it will soon go down.

Another major reason why there should be licensed processing plants is that it will probably mean the beginning of the end of fake and adulterated birds' nest.

Currently, the manufacture of fake/adulterated nests is far more lucrative than having a successful birdhouse. Without laws, these fake/adulterated nest manufacturers are laughing all the way to the bank, free to do as they please.

Lucas 1 , Don't you sleep ? or is your computer clock stuck at 3.15am ? Wah such dedication to the industry.

As is the case with many laws for the protection of our exports, of course anything for personal use, it would not be applicable. Anything for sale would come under it's controls.

Your maid would be quite welcome to clean some of my nests and I'll offer her 30% by weight F.O.C. my maid flatly refuses to do a good job.

If Malaysian Birds' Nest processing factories achieve ISO Standards then our product would be trusted and we would be above the products from our neighbours. If at anytime from now, our neighbours achieve ISO standards certification, we would lose out in very many ways.

Yes you are absolutely right in that nobody in their right mind would want to risk their reputation by selling fake and or adulterated nests. Unfortunately, there will always be many in there for a quick buck.

At a meeting with many experienced BH owners, we were shown 2 processed nests, one was fake but nobody could tell which. We of course were not able to cook these as we could probably tell by then.

Adulteration even by a modest 10% would increase profits tremendously.(cash wise)

There is a person who buys raw nests at the best current prices and within 24 hrs sell the nests slightly cheaper than what was paid! How is it done ?

Most adulterated nests are sold directly to consumers at markets, medicinal halls, birds' nests tea houses etc. where the consumers are not knowledgable and rely on "trust". A good salesman can sell anything. This practice is not confined to Malaysia alone. Most Humans are always looking for a good deal and that is where they get conned.

Locally produced Fake nests are currently available at less than Rm 1 K per kg. I'm told, selling like hot cakes. ( Don't ask me ! )

Without being able to trace the processing plants of Birds' nest, we will forever be plagued by the unscrupulous adulterers (reminds me of an MP).

The apathy amongst birdhouse owners is well known.

Wait till the destruction begins and then only there will be noise.

It's been tried and tested !

Most modern audio amps, consisting of ic's and not valves, will respond to ultrasonic frequencies of 20khz to 40+khz.
Very few adult humans can hear beyond 20khz.

Recordings on CDs can record beyond 20khz provided the original sound was recorded to include information beyond 20khz.

Microphones are usually designed to respond to no more than 40khz and usually it is the cheap mics. that use ceramic pic ups that will go that high.

The energy at high frequencies is short ranged.

Tweeters of the ceramic type can respond to play signals to about 40khz. That's the cheap made in china tweeter.

When an amplifier with a graphic equaliser is set to play bird calls only at the highest frequencies, the sound becomes very soft to human ears. The birds do seem to respond to this but not as well as when it is played normally. This is perhaps the range is nearer or the birds cannot hear that well either.

With the above result, I never proceeded to true ultrasonic frequencies as it would be a waste of time.

Yes you are correct that part of the birdsong is reproduced, if the song has no "ultrasonic" birdsong, then none is recorded and therefore none is re produced.

Ultrasonic here is beyond 'most' human audible range. Dogs, and young humans, can still hear that range. Not in the more technical sense as beyond complete human auditory range defined at 40khz and above.

We cannot convert normal audible to ultrasonic as then we would distort the original content. We can only play back the ultrasonic range if it exists.

Regenerating the birdsong completely into an ultrasonic range would seem ridiculous to me, akin to Sinatra singing in extremely tight pants straddling a bouncing narrow bar. Maybe the birds would find that interesting and amorous.

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Added on May 24, 2010, 4:01 pmSound is basically in cycles per second.

If we compress it into half, ie the same number of cycles but in half the time or 2x the cycles per second, we actually double the frequency.

So, we can compress the music into one quarter and achieve very high frequencies but it'll sound silly, like donald duck having b..ls squeezed.

Most audio editing software will have a function to do this. You can keep compressing until it is totally inaudible to humans.

What I had done was to remove the audible to humans section and played the barely audible to humans remainder to the birds.




This post has been edited by tuckfook: May 24 2010, 04:01 PM

Well Well, look at this site. Penang's latest Heritage Boutique Hotel !

THIS HOTEL ACKNOWLEDGES THAT SWIFTLETS ARE PART OF IT'S HERITAGE

http://yengkenghotel.com.my/index.html

Thank you and well done.

This post has been edited by tuckfook: May 24 2010, 09:54 PM

Visited this establishment today.

http://www.aerobio4u.com/default1.htm

Very interesting setup. Is this the direction the Edible Birds' Industry should be heading for ?

Everyone should visit personally, if not only just to keep abreast of developments.

I would not exclude the possibility that a swfitlet house owner made that recommendation as Hairy Kok did openly suggest that swiftlet houses could be relocated to agricultural districts.

Needs to work on facts, ie minutes of meetings etc. not hearsay.

Precisely the point to ponder !

Are the authorities stopping new birdhouses from being built because of "proposed Swifllet House guidelines" or because of existing building bye laws ?

You'll find that there are many infringements on existing building bye laws and whether there is going to be 1GP or not, it is still not going to be approved because what is existing is not being followed. The new guidelines will not make it any easier.

IMHO The authorities cannot approve swiftlet houses because there is no provision in law but they can approve building plans for any renovations. They can also approve for a change of use, eg to a warehouse instead of office. All under whatever law that exists.

However, in the absence of National Guidelines, local councils can make laws to be followed specifically in areas under their jurisdiction.


This post has been edited by tuckfook: Jun 20 2010, 06:30 PM

[quote=West Wing,Jul 10 2010, 03:56 PM]
I have received the following PM and since I am not in Penang and I did advice him to forward the request to this forum. Hoping those swiftlets sanctuaries providers @ Penang may help him in anyway possible.

"Hi there! I'm a British journalist in Penang at the moment, and I'm writing a story for the UK newspaper Guardian Weekly about the swiftlet farming industry in Penang and Malaysia and beyond. You seem to know quite a lot about the issue, so I was wondering if you might have time to meet me for a chat early next week? What do you reckon?"


Please leave the name and contact details of the journalist and we'll get in contact with him. Thank You.


Tuckfook.

Will certainly do that.

If you have an open roof type opening, it will always be easy for such predatory birds to enter. because the owl is a heavy bird, it will need to fly low, near to the floor. Set up fine fishing nets to capture them and release into a padi field far away. If your house is near a padi field, then it'll be tough as owls are introduced into padi fields to help keep the rat population down.

If you have a window type entrance, owls always need to perch before entering. You can electrify the opening with a high voltage source from a fly zapper. The fly zapper has about 4000volts and very low amps which will NOT kill the owl but give it a very bad experience enough to deter it from coming again.

Spikes and motion activated lights will also work but they do get smart. Horizontal bars about 8 ins. apart will also prevent them from coming into the house.

Electric gates also work but sometimes they fail and swiftlets get trapped inside the house if they are not opened by sunrise. External lights all night long also help keep the owls at bay.

With any problem, there is a solution, provided you consider all the aspects that that surround the problem. They are not myths ! Each problem has a general and also unique solution. Myths are things we fail to understand.

You did not give full details in the first place.

Remember, Owls are wise ! in many cases wiser than humans remember, I mentioned they learn ! and fast.

Spikes did not work because it has been attacking the place for a long time and learnt to avoid them without having the need to perch on the entrance hole before entering.

Lights did not work because they are on all the time and only HELPS them to see better.

The owl did not need to perch because it already has a perch nearby, from which to launch it's attack.

There are in general 2 types of common owls, a larger and a smaller specie. The smaller specie can fly up to the nest and hover and fly off without going very low, near the floor.

Since yours is an old problem, the horizontal bars across the in/out hole is the best best.
Remove all places where the birds can perch within 50 metres. eg. tall trees etc.

Use flourescent lights for general lighting and spot light connected to infra red sensors at the entry hole. In case you don't realise, the sudden light that comes on when the bird approaches will deter the bird.


Otherwise pay a specialist to get rid of the problem once and for all. No solution no pay.

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Added on July 14, 2010, 2:46 pmMalaysia Survey maps uses a different Datum to Google Earth /Maps.. Google maps does not have the accuracy of JUPEM survey maps/plans which are sub cm. accurate depending on scale.

GPS usually uses a datum WGS84 whereas Malaysia uses Kertau. Without going into details, there are differences when we compare older land plans to current GPS readings.

Jabatan Ukur has updated Kertau based plans to GPS ready coordinates for most urban areas. CDs of these updated plans are available, in GPS/ WGS84 though not for the whole of Malaysia. Many surveyors now use GPS for surveying in Malaysia but they use a different receiver that can be very accurate. Civilian GPS receivers are good to about 10 m radius.

Several years ago, US imposed a random 30m+ offset on all gps signals so that other military could not use the signals. Now, with military GPS they can put a cruise missile into birdhouse entry hole, so the offset is said to be no longer there.

If all residential areas have approved plans then it will be easy to identify where each location is in relation to these areas.

DVS wants to identify every BH in Malaysia. The obvious reason is CONTROL. The RFID ideas was brought up many years ago but it was never implemented for many other types of farming, eg, poultry, cattle etc. The obvious reason is diseases control, which is under their purview. So all they do is scan the RFID and they know where it comes from. It is an identity tag. Just like the IC number.

We know we can always put somebody elses tag on our produce, if need be.

GPS just helps the officers when they need to visit the site, with current GPS route planners. There will be no need for long, complicating rural addresses. It will also help other government agencies to identify the farms, eg. IRS.






This post has been edited by tuckfook: Jul 14 2010, 02:46 PM

BTW forgot to add , Owls need some light to see and if it is totally dark in the BH they cannot see also. Their hearing is good but the tweeters will confuse them usually.

Using powerful lights outside will actually aid them inside. They can hunt by starlight alone.

You are unlikely to see their shit in totally blackened areas.

JUPEM Maps in digital format are the same as on paper. GPS coordinates are unique. Should be no problem for anyone with a form 5 education to locate any point. These are not moving maps, ie they do not change as you travel. You will have to refer to them by town, district, lot nos etc. There are plenty of moving maps now created for Malaysia so it is not difficult to use such GPS devices to find any coordinate in Malaysia or for that matter anywhere in the world. Also now available on many smart phones.

Naval Charts may require special software, S56 or something similar. This is a special application to enable very many features available in such specialized maps. eg depth contours, navi aids, warning features etc.

Yes, it is ridiculous if not impossible to try introduce RFIDs for BHs and their products. one would need to encode each and everything that comes out of the BH. How would DVS enforce that let alone implement that at all?? Let the Dr. dream on. As usual academicians are usually not practical.

However, it may be practical to use RFIDs on end manufacturers, in this case the producers of the finished and packed products, which may be good for the industry as it'll enable eg. adulterated goods to be quickly and easily traced. It's like an electronic brand name. Just an electronic convenience perhaps.

Perhaps DVS consider bird's nests to be similar to letters and parcels sent by courier services. Imagine exporting birds' nest individually by courier services. The gods must be Crazy.