In light of the fact that some fans look at others as being of the glory-hunting variety and so on, I thought it would be appropriate to get some views on what people perceive as being a hard-core fan. It's not for us to judge or discriminate as everyone has the right to support their club in any manner they see fit. While I admit this, I still find it annoying when fair-weather fans try to put up an argument with weak points.

Let me ask you then, what is your definition of a hard-core fan?

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Apr 16 2007, 06:04 PM

IMO;

1. Know the history of the club. no need to know all, but at least from the period when you started supporting that club.
2. Be aware of the latest happenings in and around your club, and form your own opinion on such news. don't just regurgitate the facts.
3. Try to watch EACH and EVERY game - live or otherwise.
4. PERSONAL PREFERENCE - try to get the official merchandise of the club. it looks really sad if you said you are supporting a particular club whilst sporting an unofficial (aka 'AAA' or lower grade) kit/shirt/etc.

Cry when your team lose...

I cried when we lost to Barca last year

This post has been edited by prelude23: Apr 16 2007, 02:58 PM

I ain't hardcore fan. But, I will watch every match my team play. It doesn't matter if I have to wake up at 3.30am and after finished the game, get shower and napping in my office. I know some other team played good football and they have some very exciting players but I don't feel like to watch them play unless it's against my team. So, the hardcore fan must be more than that.

That's an honest answer. I don't make it a point to stay up for matches of other clubs either, but I will watch if it happens to be on when I turn it on. I just like to know my opponents a little better.

for me, i will try to watch my team play be it an early kick off, midnight or even 3+am
its the next best thing until air asia have flights to europe at 9.90
but on a serious note, lately whenever i watch my team play LIVE on tv, they don't perform so (spank me and call me superstitious), i began to NOT watch them and they manage to score like mad against opponents.
i do have quite a few items of the club's genuine merchandise, my wife have to stop me from looking/buying from time to time
i know enough about what the current players can/can't do to criticize or praise them.

note : i did watch the lost to pompey and roma

I dunno whether i consider myself a hardcore fan...
I try to watch every match possible and that itself is a task as most if not all La Liga matches are on very late
I do know my fair share of history and the everyday ins and outs of the club
I know what the club's chants sound like but obviously I can't sing them since my Spanish is non-existent.
But yet i feel that since im not a socio of the club i can't consider myself hardcore
I guess i consider myself a true supporter...."hardcore" is subjective for me

hardcore fans, maybe those bedroom are decorated with the team merchandise items from bedsheets to floor mat.

Based on the 1st post, I think the question is more like... what makes a REAL fan rather than a glory hunter? If we're looking for HARDCORE fans then it's different answer already, like sell car to fly to the stadium every year, sacrificing makan/minum to collect expensive merchandise, etc...

Being a real fan is quite simple - being aware of your team, know who's who, latest results, etc. You don't have to be rich, or join clubs, or buy their shirts, etc. Do whatever it is within your limits, then you're good.

A glory hunter, well, only knows when they've won a major trophy and go singing "WE'RE THE CHAMPS" but don't even know who are the players.

There are few posts involving how often you watch your team play. That is one of the more obvious traits. Verx touched on knowing at least a little of his clubs history, and this to me is key. Many people claim to love their clubs but how can you love something you don't know about? Why you ask why they love their clubs, they say things like, because we play good football (so if another team plays better football, you'd switch?), we have super players (and if another team has better ones?) and then you have really really insightful reasons like, "because we are the best!". Erm... ok... whatever that means. Most of the reasons are pretty superficial. There is no reference to the clubs history, it's traditions, values or culture.

Let me use an analogy to explain myself.

You walk into a club, see a girl and are immediately captivated by her stunning good looks. You also notice that every bloke with a penis is looking at her and vying for her attention. She is the center of attention and it's really obvious. You think you are in love but then you realise, "heck I don't even know her". You then realise that you thought you were in love with her either because; a) Her appearance is stunning or b) Everyone else wants her and you don't want to lose out. Then you tell yourself, "ah, I'd better get to know her first too see if I really am in love". "If she doesn't have any substance, it'll just be a free shag and I'll move on to the next good looking chick".

Hope you get my point.

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Added on April 16, 2007, 4:07 pmGood point. How do I edit the thread title?

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Apr 16 2007, 04:09 PM

To Justify Whether We Are Hardcore Fans Or Not..Well To me, i dont know if i am a hardcore fan or not,because i dont buy all the merchandise(waiting to fly to england soon and i'll be a lil kid in the store).hardcore fan is to watch/see their team play even if its against a low-table table or against one of the reknown clubs in the world.but thats a hard core supporter of just one club..if its a hardcore fan..i would consider i have the depth of knowledge to know who is who and where their from, but i wouldnt want to know to the extent of their fashion taste.hardcore fans enjoy watching a game of football but if its within their capabilities because for some of us like for example last years world cup..i tried to watch every single match but i ended on drooling on the couch with my eyes shut.thats just the time difference.if i was to live there i could just grab some snacks and just watch football if i could..

well to conclude: hardcore fans can be varied though.perhaps the difference is how knowledgable you are about the team you support and how passionate you feel when they win a game or be saddened when they lose..but glory hunters..they just pop out from nowhere and saying "WERE HARDCORE" but when we ask them its like a zombie without knowing wats happening.

90% of chelsea fans i know , cant even name a line up for year 2000

infact ... almost all football fans i know , didnt even bother about chelsea abromovich came along

Well we all have to start somewhere. What matters is that they continue their support even if they get relegated. What also matters is that they bother to read up on a little history.

I'm a Milan ultra...and there's not many of us here in Malaysia...but thats cool...and watching the likes of Franco Baresi & Demitrio Albertini and Dutch trios (MVB, Rijkaard, Gullit) worth everything then... and still have the chance to watch il Capitano Maldini on the pitch is a superb experience...

yup i agree there, we all have to start somewhere. share the highs and lows, be there where-ever the team is, Championship, 1st division, etc.

as for crying, well that's a very subjective matter. i won't cry but i will feel sad and will pick up when the next game comes along!

Were you at Hartamas Square of the Champions League final in 2005? I noticed a number of AC Milan supporters that morning.

I was at Ampang coz our Supporters Club and Liverpool Fan Club had joint gathering there where TV3 did a live telecast as well..but what a night!

We also did a gathering during Milan-Barca semi last season as well as all Italian matches gathering during last World Cup..

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Added on April 16, 2007, 4:55 pm
went thru the highs and lows all the time...

CL win against Juve, lost to Deportivo, Istanbul nightmare, unlucky vs Barca... gone thru it all...

my blood is red and black..

This post has been edited by penew: Apr 16 2007, 04:55 PM

at least u guys got ur own local based fans club n get to hav gatherings. I had never met with any other true local Romanista in my life so far. that make me feel like an alien sometimes.

How did you become one anyway?

we did gather with other Italian clubs fans as well.. such as Juventus & Inter...
especially during WC... and during matches like Milan vs Juve or Milan vs Inter matches..
We also have other clubs fans on our webforum such as Interisti, Romanista & a Deportivo fan..and its good to discuss things with fellow non-EPL fans..

confession - besides Chelsea, i follow Milan as well, my 2nd team if you may. Since the heydays of our famous Dutch trio. actually i started supporting Milan first then Chelsea, but given the media exposure of the English league then as compared to the Italian league, my support for Chelsea grew at a faster pace than that of Milan's. i do lookout for their results nowadays incl their comings and goings for the past few seasons. was thrilled and sad when Sheva made his move to the Bridge but that sort of paved the way for other big signings to join Milan after that, most notably il fenomeno. good to see that Milan also has a strong following here in KL/Malaysia...

frankly speaking i can't really recalled why am i so hooked up with Roma. as far as i can remember, i started to 'manage' Roma in CM game when i was in secondary school (most probably 97/98 i guess).

my love for Italian football hav to scretch back to WC94 though. its still make me feel like wanna cry when i recall back the sadness on Baggio's face after 'THAT' penalty.


mayb i'll make a visit there someday.

I not gonna say i'm a hardcore Manchester United Fan YET coz there are a lot of things i need to know before i can consider myself as a hardcore Manchester United fan.. I need to learn more about them not all at one time but bit by bit especially their history, their legend..

If all of the things already got into my head then i can consider myself as a hardcore Manchester United fan.. My mission..

my love for Italian football and AC Milan gotta do with one man.. Paolo Maldini.

1994 is a great year indeed... WC (in fact we lost thru penalties, now the FIFA president said not fair Italia won thru penalties)... Milan 4 - 0 Barca's dream-team...

Someone help me change the topic wei. I want to change it so 'real fan' and not 'hardcore supporter'. I don't think any of us fall into the latter category.

u asking for real help or it's just a metaphore..

i started support Valencia after Benitez left the club.(mayb im a gloryhunter i dunno = p). watching old time Vicente performance impresses me alot. thou wakin up middle of the morning just to watch every game they played is tiring, but is worthwhile = ) . i dun like teams that many ppl support, dunno why@@.

seriously lah... can't find the option man.

edit the 1st post ?

hey Duke Red, how about those with tattoo ah? hardcore?

as chrisky said.. edit your 1st post.. u can find the same option as creating a new topic

This post has been edited by maxizanc: Apr 16 2007, 05:57 PM

Crash with the police at stadium,fight with opponent fans,etc:P

Ok done, thanks boys.

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Added on April 16, 2007, 6:06 pmNo man and I didn't get a tattoo just to prove I want to be one. I got it for personal reasons but this is between me and Liverpool . A lot of serious fans I know don't have one, it doesn't matter.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Apr 16 2007, 06:06 PM

My opinion:

Hardcore is very subjective. Before this I think I'm a passionate fan; I stayed up watching my team, get to know the players, spent time on the club' s website etc etc until I went to Anfield. I met a guy who is about a year younger than me. He knows almost everything about Liverpool and remembers the dates for future fixtures and against whom. He bought stuff from the club, has his club shirt and scarf. I can say he is more passionate than me, eventhough he is not from Liverpool. We all might not be hardcore supporters unless we're born and breed from the club where we support like the locals IMHO BUT we can be real and loyal supporters. Hardcore, Real and Loyal supporters cry when their team lost. They win together and they lose together. Glory Hunters win together with the others but when the team is losing they don't feel anything.

no hard feelings man just a joke

actually was thinking about it a few years back, procrastinated and didn't do it in the end. yours look cool tho

sometimes i feel like i'm not qualified enough to watch Man Utd game at OT.. coz i dont know much about Man Utd YET.. so i'm not sure should i be among the crowd while there's a lot of REAL FAN out there dont get/cannot watch at OT.. Sometimes i wonder, do i deserve this?

if in case i'm the lucky one like Duke Red who won a football competition n got free ticket.. or i'm rich enough to go there to watch the game..

This post has been edited by maxizanc: Apr 16 2007, 06:14 PM

you're right very subjective. and IMO, most of us don't quite feel the attachment as we're not born and bred there, unlike the locals over there. I too thought that I was a hardcore until I met up with some BLUES fans over here, and I'm way down that list. but whatever it is, I still think of myself as a true supporter, given my personal history with the club over these years.

i guess all that i'm trying to say that we all have our ways of supporting our favourite teams. and we all hate the glory-hunters/band-wagoners/punters!

but one thing i might add, watching your team play at their stadium must the ultimate dream of a supporter, hardcore or not. and trust me, it is worth everything that you will or had sacrificed...

For me... it doesn't matter la, every one has rights to claim how a 'big fan' he/she is for his/her beloved club. But things that annoy me most are fans that previously supported club A but then suddenly supports club B.

I've seen many examples of these kind of fans. Most recently those who admit to me, they previously supported United but now support Chelsea. I read somewhere in the FourFourTwo magazine, one of the members of our local band. He used to be a United fan, then he says now he supports AC Milan and dislikes United because of our recent previous poor form (well.. I don't think it's that poor). I have a friend of mine, previously proudly wearing a t-shirt with a United logo, but today he's a big Chelsea fan. Guess why eh..

Success normally becomes the deciding factor on why you support your team. I won't deny that, supporting a successful team is indeed attractive. But I hate it when this factor makes people jump ships. THIS IS WHAT YOU CALL A GLORY HUNTING FAN. It happens once when United were successful and you can see many nowadays suddenly supporting Chelsea.

I wouldn't say that I am a die hard fan if I have all the jerseys United have in the past 20 years, or claim that I am because I have spent my money to fly to Manchester and watch United live in Old Trafford (I wish that time will come one day). It's not fair because being a fan is not about torturing youself.. not a self sacrifice goal... but it's all about yourself, being true to the club. Do you buy fake jerseys if you want to be a true fan? Interesting point to argue but I won't distant myself to my mates who can't afford to buy one. But don't make excuse of saying don't have money to buy originals because.. hendak seribu daya, tak hendak seribu dalih..

At the end.. all that matters is to stick and root to your team. I've seen mates who support Leeds United, Nottingham Forest, other unfancied teams but to me they are true die hard fans..... Stick to your team...

This post has been edited by schmeichel7: Apr 16 2007, 07:00 PM

@schmeichel7

i have a lot of friends like u said.. Most of them previously supported Man Utd, Arsenal suddenly dont admit anmore.. pretending donno anything.. lol.. also there's one of them become a Liverpool fan A WHILE after they win the CL.. why la i have friends like this

This post has been edited by maxizanc: Apr 16 2007, 06:43 PM

These are the dying breed (hopefully) of people that you call glory hunting fans..

dying breeds?? wataheck is that mean? dying breeds = insaf?

lol.. if they love the club they supported at 1st so much.. i dont think they will be like this..

Dying breeds = spesis terancam dari kepupusan, few left around, species that are threaten from extinction

last time in Speedy got one CD , History of Manchester United .

detailed from their first ever season fixture list to Billy Meridith to relegated year to van Nistelrooy's goals

I'd say the minimum qualifications of a genuine football fan would be to watch around at least 90% of the team's matches.

oh shiet, now since i'm working already, I can't watch the games and also the replays.... will I get demoted?

A true fan? One must know who he is supporting in order to be a true fan. That includes the history, the fans, the team, the passion, the culture. Basicly everything that made the club into what it is.

It is sad to see that some supposing fans don't even know what their clubs been through to be where it is now. I have friends who has all the MU shirts in the world, but when I asked him "how many European Cups have you won?" (obviously trying to shut him up), he told me he is not too sure. And I spent the rest of the day laughing at him.

And this is not the only case, I've met people who don't even know who was the manager prior to GH. And they call themselves Liverpool fans.

As for me, I consider myself a proper fan. Not hardcore. But definately not a casual fan. I watch all Liverpool games, I read a lot about the history of the club. I even tried learning songs of Youtube. I sing when I watch games. I even sing YNWA when I play Fifa. I don't call my own players useless after they had 1 bad game. I worship Fowler, Biscan and Garcia. The only bad part is I am too far away from Liverpool. It is really hard for me to absorb the culture. The only way for me to try absorb the local culture is by reading forums with a lot of scousers (RAWK is good).

To me, supporting the club is not only about the football, it is also about supporting the values that the club holds dear upon. Not only on the pitch, but values off the pitch as well. I daresay supporting Liverpool has made me a better person. Shankly has rub a bit of his humillity onto me. Carra showed me that being a honest man would get you far in life as well. The Liverpool way has thought me to be humble and unassuming.

I owe a lot to LFC and the only way I can repay them now is by giving them my unconditional support.

i believe you know a true fan when he curses at the TV when his team loses ... his team is playing for nothing and yet he is watching the game .... you mood for the whole day is affected by a cup win or league win ...

Basically, you need to be there for your team, win or lose. Stick with your team whther they're at the tops or in the shits. Full of trophies or no trophies at all. Bandwagon jumpers i.e. glory hunters are definitely out of this list. However, this is Malaysia so bandwagon jumpers are a common theme here. That's why you see the sudden influx of Chelski 'fans' this past few years. Same as it was with Man United and Arsenal back in the 90's. I have a friend who was a Man United fan in 02, Real Madrid fan in 02-04 and a Chelski fan in 03-now. I mean I rather my club have less fans than have these kind of people.

This is my personal preference, but I rather watch my team play effective+sexy+attractive footy rather than win any trophies. At least they're entertaining the fans so we know that they're doing it for the fans.

Obviously you have to know about the history of the club. None of this "I never lived during the time, so I dont need to know about it". I mean, I came across so called Man united fans who asked what's the Munich tragedy is before,I mean what kind of bull question is that???Internet was created,google it.

And this is another personal thing. Anyone who supports more than 1 club should be shot in my opinion. My days on this forum, I came across people who are supporting Man United, Arsenal and Liverpool. How the hell can you support 3 team that are bitter rivals and are usually genuine contenders for titles is well beyond me. I can actually understand people who maybe support us and Barca or us and Real or us and Milan(although I still maintain they should be shot,haha) since they are clubs from 2 different leagues, but supporting 3 clubs out of the usual top 4??? That's just plain idiocy IMO.

I don't see needing to watch a certain percentage of games as a sign of true fan. Me personally, I never missed any United games be at whatever time it is. When it is not shown on TV I'll find ways to watch it. But who knows,we may have a Man United fan in Timbaktu who has no access to TV,who just happen to fall in love with the footie that the club plays while catching a glimpse of it on TV during a trip to town and make it a point to go some distance to check newspapers to find out results. There just might be these sort of fans.

This post has been edited by air_mood: Apr 17 2007, 02:40 AM

Agreed. From all your opinions a true fan has the following traits:

1. Watches all his club's games unless absolutely impossible.
2. Knows a fair bit about the club's history and culture.
3. Emotionally attached to the club. (Can't sleep after a bad game, curses at the TV, etc.)
5. Only supports ONE club during their entire life time.

How about fans who support like let's say MU and England? If John Terry plays for England how?

This post has been edited by Soulsareworthless: Apr 17 2007, 12:53 AM

air_mood has spoken.. i agree on every single words that he wrote.. That's what a true fan is, 4 main things according to air_mood..

1) Stick with your team whther they're at the tops or in the shits..
2) You have to know about the history of the club
3) Support only 1 club
4) Try to watch your team play..

Well said..

This post has been edited by maxizanc: Apr 17 2007, 01:27 AM

yes, additional from that:

yes, there are many who support many teams at 1 time.
For example, I support A team, but at the same time I'm enjoy watching B team and C team playing their nice football, am I support 3 teams? Hell no, enjoy watching and support the team are 2 different things but many think it is a same thing.

as air_mood said,
we no need to watch a % of games then only considered as real fan. I myself never watch all Man Utd's matches, esp those at the midnight but I get the result as soon as I wake up, am I not consider a Man Utd fan?

regarding to Soulsareworthless,
Club and National team are different

I agree with you mate on this... Stick to your team and don't suddenly change heart to support another team that's successful or attractive compared to your previous team. This is one strong characteristic of a glory hunter type fan. That's why I respect some fans out there who support Nottingham Forest because they studied in Nottingham, Derby County fan because Peter Shilton played there etc...

Question: Which team won 9-0 against Ipswich Town, 8-1 away to Nottingham Forest, 7-1 against Roma recently?

That's why they are the best team in terms of entertainment and guess who's the boss during those 3 matches?

True too... Being a fan means you should know about your club. Knowing the history actually makes u love and appreciate them even more. For those united fans out there, do they know that a dog is instrumental to the creation and destiny of the club? The Munich tragedy? What was United's original name and jersey colours back then?

I too can't understand that.. There's only one team and that's United. I just can't support any other team in the EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, etc..

As I said, being a fan doesn't mean you must sacrifice your mind and soul and face all kinds of torture and pain... Sometimes it being honest to yourself (not jumping ships), and sticking to your team means more...

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Added on April 17, 2007, 1:42 amIn fact many United fans in England don't really like the National Team. Reason why is because they've vindicated and treated United players badly in the past. For example, during England matches, fans will suddenly sing "Stand Up If You Hate Man Utd".. Becks being booed etc.. So that's why many United fans are happy to support teams like Argentina due to this.

This post has been edited by schmeichel7: Apr 17 2007, 01:42 AM

why give shit abt knowing ur team's players inside out, history, watch them every sec, every minute, every hours, etc...

juz love ur team true from ur heart. thats all what it takes.

I don't know how you guys gonna classify me.
Let's see...

I love to watch Man Utd play, i dont even bother to watch other team plays unless i really dont have anything else to do
I dont have a "Manchester United Fan" sig or userbar
I seldom post at Man Utd Street Talk, but i'm a regular reader
I have been to OT & Megastore once in 1998, (but not inside the stadium)
I have a couple of Man Utd merchandise, officially & 'un'-officially (my sister used to study in UK)
I have ori Man Utd home jersey 94/96 & 96/98
I know quite a bit of Man Utd history
Both my elder brother are Liverpool supporters, but me & my father is Man Utd fan
I still have goose bumps when i watch 'THAT' Giggs goal vs Arsenal & 'THAT' CL Final vs Bayern
I stayed up watching the '99 CL Final to the final minute
Previously i watch the CL SemiFinal too
and also FA Cup win against Newcastle
I didnt watch the 7-1 win vs Roma
I tried to watch the SemiFinal FA Cup vs Watford, but i fall asleep right after kick-off (at my bro house)
I only watch a handful of Man Utd games shown on TV, i dont have astro at home, and my net connection is limited

How can you love someone when you don't know someone?

made an effort to know a lil of the club day by day since i started supporting them when i was 8 =D 1998-1999 Season la that time wtf

This post has been edited by KimRoss: Apr 17 2007, 10:01 AM

i hav no idea abt that, as a matter of fact, i know nuts abt Roma's history n past players things.

but i juz love them. i jump up n down in joy when they win, n collapse in tears when they lose. strange, eh ?

I am not qualified to say that you are not a die hard fan. But why not take the extra mile to knowing the club well... Besides, when u know a lot about your club, it should help to strengthen your love to the club. Anyone knows why a Saint Bernard dog is instrumental to Man United's creation and future?

But hey, for me la.. the way you support your club is subjective. Every person has his own way. It's not fair to say I am a better fan than someone else just because I have a crazy man utd football jersey collection. That's my way and others have theirs. But I think the objective point of being a die hard fan is you should stick to your team till the end and you should have some knowledge of the team you support. Others.... up to you man.. even the controversial thing about buying fake jerseys. My mate from Manchester says you guys should buy originals to support the club. He doesn't know how expensive it is here, I understand most of you guys not able to buy it. No one forces you... But don't make excuse of not buying it because you don't have money.

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Added on April 17, 2007, 10:57 amYou're a die hard fan. Because you're love for the club is proven already and you know why....

I too remembered the crazy things I did for supporting United... I sneaked 3 of my Politeknik friends to my house at 3.50 am to watch the 1999 UCL Finals why my parents are asleep above in the house. In those days, we had Mega TV at home and they broadcast it in ESPN. Funnily one of my mates is a liverpool fan and he enjoyed the match.

I remembered riding my sad old skool honda c70 cup motorbike to watch United at a food court in medan gopeng, ipoh every week end just to see United chasing the treble every weekend in 1999.

I remembered looking for a job at KFC after SPM just to get some money to buy Man United's ori jersey. Back then, umbro jerseys just cost RM189 for short sleeves.

I remembered riding a bus express from ipoh to KL then walked to BB plaza so that I can get my United jerseys applied with lextra EPL names and numbers, then walk back to pudu and take a bus back from KL to ipoh.

I have a collection of Man United videos (treble season, the complete season from when the club was created till 2002, eric cantona's aur revoir, etc). Anyone interested, I can burn it into cd and post them to you guys..

To summarize, everyone has their own way on supporting United or their beloved club. It's too subjective to find a proper measurement on how you call yourself a die hard fan. But I will NEVER support another club and will stick to this club forever.

This post has been edited by schmeichel7: Apr 17 2007, 11:02 AM

u wouldn't even need so, if u know ur really in love with them true from ur own heart.

perhaps i should put it this way :

i find to b rather amusing that someone measure 'how much' they support n love their team by counting the amount of games they watch, how much they know abt their team, n how much they spent on their mechandise, etc.

i love my team is not bcoz of their history n past glory. I love them... juz simply bcoz i fell in love in them without apparent reason. i never hav any doubt that they are the team for my life.

This post has been edited by Chrisky: Apr 17 2007, 11:04 AM

Fully agreed.

I understand where Chrisky is coming from.
It's all very subjective. I personally don't think u can measure your support for the club just by how many games u watch or how much u have spent buying merchandise. As long as u choose to support a club till the day you die it's good enough for me

This post has been edited by verx: Apr 17 2007, 11:13 AM

As I said earlier.. the measurement thing is too subjective. You can't measure it.. I cannot say you are not a die hard roma fan just because you don't know about your club's history.. But it's worth a while knowing about it... It's fun and makes you love your club more... Nowadays information is unlimited, thanks to internet. Just visit wikipedia at least if you want to learn about your football club.

For example, knowing about how a dog was a huge part of the birth of Manchester United. It amazes me and is very interesting.. because it's a true story. It helps anyway to bond more to the club but it doesn't mean you must know everything about your club just to be called a fan.

^ Wikipedia is one of the least reliable information sources imo...but it's a good place to get started i guess
I must admit that reading up on the history of RM made me more attached to the club. So to Chrisky: Go do your homework!!

i know some of my team's history lah of coz. at least i know who's Giuseppe Giannini, Bruno Conti, Rudi Voller, etc.

its juz that most of the details info i can find is in Italian. n Babelfish translation is always hopeless.

buy original, don't buy replica jersey

Hehehe.. Yeah, it's hard eh.. Since most info published might be in Italiano.. hehehe.. but that's a good challenge mate. I saw this dude in ESPN STAR who seems to be an expert in Italian Football.. malay guy, maybe from Singapore. But he speaks English with an Italian accent. Wah...

So true...
I'm just lucky a certain Mr Phil Ball compiled a nice little book on RM

Well procrastinate no longer then. If we win our 6th this season, you have to promise to get one!



I totally agree. If you love a girl, you will eventually ask her questions about her past, no?

That's the word for it, proper fan. I totally get you on the values bit though some people may scoff at it. It wasn't the quality of football that attracted me, it was the values instilled in the club. This is why I can honestly say I love LFC, because like knowing a girl's personality and traits, I know Liverpool's.



Oath! Off with their heads!



Exactly, information is just a click away. It's not that I'm judgmental of fans and how they choose to support their club. What gets me is fans who claim to be really into their clubs but have no knowledge prior to being fans. If you claim to love your club, how can you not know about your club? If on the other hand you claim to be a regular supporter, then fair play. It's annoying when you get into arguments with fans of rival clubs who think they know it all when if fact, you probably know more about their club than them. This is why when I visit forums such as RAWK, I go there to learn and not argue, unless I know my stuff. No point going on these forums to make a fool of myself. Problem is that most people are not willing to learn and when you tell them something about their club, they take it as though you are challenging them and they get all defensive.



I've met such supporters. I share the same opinion as you. It's ok to have a soft spot for another team though, I had one for West Ham back in the day and I still do.


Precisely, not everyone is free all the time. People have commitments. I have encountered though fans who don't even know when or who their club has played (past tense). Ok fair play if you couldn't watch the game but aren't you at least curious to know if the won???

I personally could care less about England though Carra, Gerrard and Crouch are in the team. All I want is for my boys to come back fit.

Well everyone is entitled to their opinion. Mine is you can't love something you know nothing about. You don't have to watch ALL your games as we all have commitments. I hate people who have wedding or birthday functions of Saturdays . It's also not about how much you spend on the club, not everyone has money trees growing in their gardens. To me though, it's about how much you know your club. That's how you start a love affair.

I'm not judging you mate, just voicing my opinion. Fair play to you for supporting an Italian team given the amount of people that support those in the EPL. I myself used to watch Inter Milan play during the days of Mattheus, Brehme, Klinsmann, Zenga, Bergomi, Serena and Sosa but my I started to lose interest when the EPL started getting more coverage.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Apr 17 2007, 12:15 PM

Drinking Real Power often would help.

Haha.. Tried that already.. But tak sedap la bro... taste a bit bitter, maybe got tongkat ali?

Loving a football cluib is like loving a girl. When you love her/it, you want to know everything you can about it/her. Like verx said, how can you fall in love with something/someone that you don't know off?? That's more than lus than love. Lusting over trophies or a player probably?? Haha, I'm starting to sound like damn Dr. Phil.

Not trying to take the piss out of but I couldn't help it. A discussion about a real/true/proper fan and only one Chelski fan to be seen about. No pun intended to the likse of esca_flo and Kidscode as those who has supported the club a hell of long time though( I still hate you guys though,hahaha), to name a few.

This post has been edited by air_mood: Apr 17 2007, 01:55 PM

Well the positive thing is there has been a fair number of views, if not posts. It's ok not to post if you have nothing to say, just as long as you learn something from this. Fans in Malaysia are not as pressured to know about their clubs mainly because a huge majority don't. If you visit foreign forums though, it helps to know a little at least. If you actually visit Liverpool, Manchester or whatever, trust me, it's crucial to know something especially when you strike up a conversation with one of the locals. They will be apprehensive of course thinking you are one of those tourist type fans, but they will warm up to you when you show them you can hold your own.

i felt u r hardcore fan if other people insult ur club, ur player, ur manager and everyone link to the club (except Malcolm glazer for man utd case)

actually when watching football match at mamak, i felt insulted if anyone 'kutuk' my club and i'll try to find back point to shoot back at their club..

I'm sure most fans will because it is a common reaction. It's the same if someone were to 'kutuk' the car you were driving. You get offended. Seldom do you see Malaysian fans engage in friendly banter like in the UK. Everyone here takes it personally as though someone just insulted their mother.

I think when you argue and defend you're club thought it's pretty obvious you're doing so in vain,you're quite a real fan Go drop by the various threads after certain outcomes of a match,you get this alot.This falls under emotionally attached to the club I suppose,as one has pointed out.

Definately knowing some form of history/culture/whatever u wanna call it would be a good indicator,but I don't think it's particularly necessary.Some have been using the whole girlfren analogy as an example,but some ppl just like their girl for her present that they couldn't be too bothered bout digging up the past.So to speak.

I personally don't "fall in love" with the history of a club.I started supporting MU back as a kid (which is like,13 years ago maybe?lol) for reasons I can hardly remember.And I was freakin 7 years old that time.I couldn't be bothered with keeping track of history and what nots.Plus coverage wasn't that often,and I didn't get Astro at it's launch but till much later,so I haven't watched a gazillion games.

However I am still "emotionally attached" to my club,if I may put it as so.

Do I label my housemate as a Man Utd fan? You be the judge, hesitating to switch clubs, from Man Utd to Chelsea...Shucks, sad isn't it?

You reminded me about this friend of mine, during the Roma and Man Utd at Rome, he kept saying that Roma take freekicks and throwins very quickly without the referee's whistle. I was annoyed though I am a Liverpool fan, I told him that Ryan Giggs scored a freekick against Lille without the referee's whistle and the team was still forming the wall. I do not have any grudge towards this issue, but it's kinda annoying to see people shooting other teams without even considering their own.

Don't misunderstand. It's not only knowing about her past, it's knowing about her. Similarly it's not only knowing about the history of your football club, it's knowing about their 'personality'. Also if someone claims to be a serious/real/hardcore/whatever supporter, would they not want to find out about their club?

There is no right and wrong here. I just think the term "hard core fan" or "real fan" is often overused. Again I have to use the who relationship analogy and point out that it can only be a serious relationship if you get to know her.

Ah yea,knowing their "personality" would be more logical then knowing the "history" as per say,I would agree on that.

And yea,the term is definately overused and undefined,oh well ..

well, imo, it's always good to know a lil bit of history about the club. It makes you look less ignorant when another person ask you about your club. just my opinion

It's ok to be ignorant and to learn from another, even if it's a rival fan. What bites me is when ignorant people pick an argument and get their facts wrong. It's ok not to know too much, just be humble.

And the irony would be that they would think that they're a hardcore fan. I personally feel they're immature. Winning and losing is part of everything in life.

To me; the most important criteria of being a hard-core fan would be a dedicated support to the team, but a belief in the club's principles (both football and non) as well.

As such, a fan who can admit when his team were outplayed and continues to support the team even though they're not winning anything is a hard-core fan for me.

I should know. I support a long list of losers.

I agree thoroughly with this. Supporting a club as they say, is a way of life.

No offence but if someone thinks that they have no need to know about their clubs because the majority don't, then they have no backbone IMO. I used the GF analogy because it reflects it perfectly. When you love your club, you want to know everything about it. If you like a girl and you want her to take you seriously, you'll go out of your way to know when's her birthday, what she likes et cetera. So, how do you expect fellow fans to take you seriously if you actually know jack about the club you supposedly care for and love?? As a Man United fan, I feel you're at least obligated to know about Newton Heath, Sir Matt Busby, The Busby Babes, Duncan Edwards, The Munich Disaster, Georgie Best, Bobby Charlton, Eric Cantona and the current and ongoing legend that is Sir Alex Ferguson. Just like Pool fans would want your fans to know at least about Shankly, Paisley, Hillsborough and Heysel.

Important event in your club. Learn it up. As verx(or was it Duke??) said again, Wikipedia has everything you need.



I would say he's no Man United fan. A real/proper/hardcore/insert others here/ wouldn't even have the slightest inkling to abandon your club. Be it they're at the top or in the shits. That friend oof yours, should be shot. Would be shot I think if he's actually lived in the UK if he has that sort of principle. If you don't mind me asking, how old is your friend??? This switching club/glory hunting principle is most commonly found among kids anyways. If he's an adult, then as you said, sad, sad case...

This post has been edited by air_mood: Apr 17 2007, 03:57 PM

That is the mentality of some people sadly. I was at the gym and this dude caught sight of my LFC tattoo. He obviously knows enough about football to recognise it. He then asked me, "What if you were to change clubs?". Basically says a lot about the quality of fan he is. Anyway I asked him, "Why would I ever want to change clubs?". He just shrugged his shoulders and that was that.

early 20s, I'm younger though.

I'm just wondering, just in case if one day, any of the top four team relegates. How many would still bother about their clubs?

Like I said; I support a long list of losers. They are; Wolves, Fulham, Middlesbrough.

If I'm not mistaken, I've met a hard core fan of Bournemouth. We have absolutely nothing to talk about, when it comes to football. He does talk about memories about Frank Lampard Sr and Harry Redknapp though.

This post has been edited by glozz: Apr 17 2007, 04:44 PM

Then he's just a very sad,sad person.

Will still follow them, regardless of what division of they are. Never ever crossed my mind to switch clubs.

That is all about loyalty to the club. Some lower divison club also have their die hard fans for decades.

One of my friend .....

start watching football at 2003 ... he dislikes ManUtd so first team he support is Milwall ... coz that time FA Cup final was manutd vs milwall.

then next year .. he support norwich coz proton sponsor @_@

now he support chelsea ....

Excellent. Give him a pat on the back, and a smack on the head while you're at it.

This post has been edited by air_mood: Apr 17 2007, 07:00 PM

These are lalangs / glory hunters. Definitely should be shot.

Previously during United's succesful era in early 90s, most rival fans blame United fans as full of glory hunters. From their rants in United's magazine and football magazines such as Shoot and Match, they say that most United fans are glory hunters because of the sudden increase of supporters. They say these type of fans will behave like rats deserting a sinking ship later...

Typical label... I just will like to see how many fans behave like this now since United are on top form again...

yes. agree with you. we need to get the facts right when talking about our rival.

i really hate bunch of people who because they dislike one club, they try to shoot everything without the facts and pretend they are right

IMO, to be a true supporter is to stand beside the team even if they lose, or get relegated. i have my friend who truly supporting leeds even though they playing in League One.