Comments made here were never personal, until you take it that way. It is a healthy discussion, to me, if you can't even take internet forum discussion and woould take it personal, then I would suggest you to reassess the reason you log on here or the whole thing and refrain from part take from ANY discussion at all. By the way, I am not targetting you, just a general comment towards those who'd take comments personally and get upset with it.

Having said that, I do get personal with idiots who come in without any substance, just stupid oneliners. Anyway back to the topic...

A real fan need not have to play the game competitively, but I do agree the "someone who follows the game from a non glamour pondan perspective" part, there are too many who'd follow a team then switch when they didn't do that well. I know people who have a few different strips of different clubs 

I guess the worst is the ones who proclaim that they don't support any team, they only support money or teams that "brings them money", to me that has to be the worst type of supporter. They have nothing to do than watching the game with hard earned money at stake, in a gamble that they have no control over, to me it's pretty stupid, but then again, to each his own...

Football is essentially a blue collared sport and most avid fans are from blue-collared backgrounds. Maybe that's why someone with a PHD coming from a privileged background doesn't understand it.

I've been and yes, it's not the best of places to live. I stated earlier that what I typed was in response to a previous post so laugh outta your ass will ya? I don't expect you to do so now given it's pages back, but check on air_mood's argument with shah to get a better idea of what i said that.

Having been born in the mid 70's, I am well aware of our glory days. Well my dad was a football fan and even as a wee little lad, I'd go to padang Timur to watch him play in the amateur league. I was well proud of our team back then and even as I'm moaning and complaining now, it's more out of frustration than hate. I'm frustrated that our football has degenerated to what it is now.

I am a consumer and I am looking for a superior product and it is of my opinion that Malaysian football as a product is of inferior quality which is why I resort to the EPL, not La Liga and not Serie A. You can go at great lengths about patriotism and saying it's no point knowing a lot about Manchester United when you know nuts about your own national team but fact of the matter, is I don't really care and I don't need anyone's approval [best word I can think of right now] to call myself a real Manchester United fan.

Maybe it's because it was such a long time ago. I like many others have short term memory. I did weep when Mokhtar passed away. He epitomised everything that was good in the Malaysian game. Back then though, my sense of national pride was much stronger, not like it is today. Sports aside, it has to do with the political environment and all. I just don't feel a strong affinity with my nation anymore.

You do realize you're in the LYN forum?? Most of the people here on in their early 20's or teens. The likes of Jonno, schmeichel7, Duke Red and madmoz are a rare breed here and by that I mean the ones in their very late 20's or the early 30's. So they are more likely to know and feel about the of Supermokh and all. Me, I'm 24 so I would have been most likely playing with toy cars or rattles at the point of time when the likes of SuperMokh, Soh Chin Aun and R.Arumugam were in the twilights of their career and was probably still little sperms and ovums when they were playing their best football. So it is not hard to understand. I do hear a lot of stories being told by my mom and uncles who were big football fans before they got married and were regular matchgoers at Stadium Merdeka then although after she got married, she stopped going so growing up in a non-football following family didn't help either.

SuperMokh is like Duncan Edwards to us Manchester United fans, never see them play but we know of their greatness. And again, with all the crap and roller coaster situations going on with Malaysian football, you can't really blame football fans from distancing themselves with teh team. With the vast amounts invested on the team, you'd expect the team to at least put up a fight but time and time again, they disappoint. We can even barely get to the finals of the Sea Games nowadays, let alone qualifying for the Asian Cup without being host. In my time, the best Malaysian team has got to be in the early 90's. We even won the 93 Merdeka tournament albeit beating a Korea Republic B side. We too beat CIS in the semis. The likes of Zainal Abidin Hassan, Dollah Salleh weres till playing then and Azman Adnan was a fresh face who had an excellent, excellent tournament scoring many goals in the runup to the final and eventually the final itself.. Nowadays we even have trouble beating New Zealand and Laos.

Errr...if I were a supporter of Perak or god-knows-where, why would I 'progress' to the foreign leagues? The reason why I don't even support any of our local teams is because I think that the product [football, commentary, how it is marketed and everything] is inferior. I would only look elsewhere if that were the case and sadly, it is so. And, your claims that consumers cannot be loyal is fallacious. Haven't you heard of brand loyalty? I started consuming Manchester United but then, there's an emotional affinity that goes beyond rational preference.

And as I have said, I really do not need your approval to prove myself as a real fan. I can go on and say all the right things about any team in the world but that would mean F all as no one would truly know how I feel but me.

Firstly, you sound very, very bitter about the foreign leagues. I don't know about the other leagues, but since we're talking about the English League here, let's start with that. Honestly, you sound like Richard Scudamore just gang raped or taken your milk money here. There's a reason why people like watching foreign leagues as opposed to local leagues. It's interesting and more attractive. Simple really.

Secondly, your constant reference to people who supports international leagues as 'glamour pondan'. 1st thing I got to ask, what are you...8? Either you have an affinity towards pondans or you are one, hence your fondness of use of the word, whatever the hell it is. It doesn't even makes sense for starters.

As I've said. You got issues. Sort it out.

All I know is this; if the 'glamour pondan' remark was aimed at me, i'd like to meet him in person to see who the 'pondan' is. Be a man and say it to my face. If not then well, not my argument really.

You are a bitter one aren't you? They have a name for people who think they are the one true superior being amongst a sea of inferiority = wanker/jackass/retard. Oh wait, there is more than one world. What astounds me is how you keep coming back to these threads though you seem to think that everyone here is beneath you. Are you some middle aged bitter man that can't hold his own against people his age and comes here to pick on little kids to make himself feel bigger?

The difference is that you disagree for the sake of disagreeing. If I were afraid to disagree, I wouldn't have taken a dig at you now would I?

Is it some coincidence that even on forums such as the "real world issues" one, people think you are a prick? A string of coincidences can only indicate one thing. Care to take a stab at what?

You are entitled as deluded as you may be. How credible your claim is another matter all together. There is however some evidence that you do justice to the term. Is it a coincidence though that everyone seems to think you're a prick? Well maybe not your legion of admirers in the UK. Take your head out of your ass, listen to what people are saying and perhaps the world will look a little different.

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Added on February 26, 2008, 3:53 pm"the rest of you who responded to him (vulgar or rude or whatever), i'll give chance. next time don't respond to such jerks."

I was on the debate team. It's tough not to respond

So you don't read your own posts?
Put it this way. No one here enjoys having a conversation with you because you can't be civil. For some reason you think everyone is beneath you. You talk down to people. Either mellow out or bugger off.

By 'people', do you actually mean 'you'? Who is complaining? Far as I'm concerned, you're a deluded little prick and therefore, what you say means nothing to me. Want proof? Ask anyone here if they really give two shades of shit what you think. To be fair you can call on your friends from the UK. I'm sure you may say the same about me as will your 'people' but I don't really give a F.

Me bugger off? Far from it. I'll match you every step of the way. What's next?