QUOTE(wailup @ Feb 23 2012, 10:25 AM)
wow.. the engine 1.3 is quite powerful huh.. without assist also can climb hills. thx for yer feedback ler.. want to get the FL version soon..

Not only without assist, sometimes it went into force-charging mode (as the battery deplete further during climb). Still it can climb. I really respect the ICE engine.
Looking at it, Honda came long way and throw in all their technology to make this engine efficient but powerful enough at the same time. Its got I-Vtec, IDsI, IMA, and could match the FC of other so-called full hybrid system.
QUOTE(alxdc @ Feb 23 2012, 11:16 AM)
I was told that hybrid with electric motor with engine. It will achieved :
Insight 1.3 = 1.6
Prius 1.8 = 2.3
Prius c 1.5 = ?
Insight match the overall power of my old Altis 1.8.
Prius kinda selectable but not as high as 2.3-2.4 for sure. ECO mode felt like lowly 1.5, Power mode, can say feels like 2.0.
Prius C - never drive yet.
QUOTE(xtrabite @ Feb 23 2012, 04:35 PM)
drove my insight to toyota showroom to checkout prius c...
no one entertain me..
wondering why..

sat on the driver seat, only then I know.. haha
nothing to proud about - dashboard

engine bay
who said insight-er banging our ball with arrival of prius c.. we just laugh..

The only factor to compare both car is price (almost similar). The real product though, Prius C disappointing, especially the dashboard.
QUOTE(iphone @ Feb 23 2012, 05:26 PM)
wasted your time right
But one thing Insight lost la..

The reason for 7 air bags!!

I'm still imagining Insight 2012 comes with 7 airbags and they recall us to fit another 5 for free
QUOTE(eltaria @ Feb 23 2012, 05:45 PM)
Actually, wanted to discuss this with u all.
In our and Prius's case, we convert mainly petrol > battery, while some is saved from regen braking. From personal driving, I'll say maybe 20% of the battery's power came from regen/braking.. (I consider myself a pretty good hypermiller, avg 19.5km/l for 80% city, 20% hw)
My question is, as physics says... During conversion of energy from 1 source to another, definitely energy loss will happen.
+ We're carrying the extra weight of the battery and the IMA system itself.
+Prius, even worse, carrying two full set of engine and transmission thingy and battery.
By this logic,
Wouldn't it be more efficient if we just have a 1.5L ICE in Insight with start stop tech, which i believe is the main contributor to our FC? (The new civic non hybrid have an eco save version with autostop feature too and their FC is similar to ours~!)
In terms of converting the energy to electric (energy loss), storing it(energy loss), using that energy(energy loss) and convert it via the electric motor.. + the added weight of batteries, I guess we're really in a small sweet spot that makes it all worth while in the end.
Now, going into the petrol>battery deeper, wanted to ask if there's RPM ranges during the ICE combustion where it's actually more energy effficient to convert and store into battery vs, burning the ICE 100%?
For example, if I drive at 40km steady, u will notice it'll charge battery, and after charge a few seconds, it'll go into EV mode, then depleted, then charge, then EV mode again, etc for infinity..
Apparently, overall this operating mode is more fuel saving in the end, despite, the initial assumption that converting energy from one form to another will result in net loss?
Anyone else finds this interesting on how the engine works, and why it's possible to convert and still net gain in the end?
*My unscientific guess is, at certain RPMs/Speed, the energy gained from burning ICE and the conversion ratio of that energy into actual speed is not efficient and results in huge losses*
And, during this highly energy>speed 'defficient' speed/rpm range, it's actually more profitable to convert the energy to electric save it and use it later on....
Interesting discussion.
Your first suggestion to just equip a 1.5L car with start stop, makes sense. But with current tech, it still not comfortably possible for bigger engine. This is because, in order to seamlessly restart the engine, it needs bigger motor & bigger current, bigger battery. Hence, Honda thought why not the same starter motor assist the car while coasting (which IMA did). One more thing, a lot, i mean really a lot of energy wasted on a car coasting to stop. These bigger electrical system and battery can store some of those energy.
While Prius, even though equipped with entirely different & advance system, base on your facts on energy loss while converting, still only record comparable FC to Insight. The advantage is, because it have even bigger electrical system, it can use the electric motor only to move the car. So FC saving on Prius is immediate, no need to have a certain range like Insight to get good FC. Conclusion, if your daily travel involves shorter range, less than 5-10 km, lots of stops, choose Prius. If your journey always longer (beyond 10km), Insight can always match Prius FC.
2nd question, i would say the most efficient speed for Insight is as fast as we can before wind drag.
Actually too many variable. Depending on the gradient, load of the car, temperature. Yes 40-50km/h drive record the best FC. The ICE and electrical system both operating under ideal mode, have enough time to burnt every drops of fuel while the battery gets a steady current/charge. When we drives faster, say 80-90km/h, electrical system/battery couldn't store all the excess energy due to higher current/regulation (so some convert to heat), hence can't match the 40km/h record. Above 90km/h, wind drag takes over and we will only get increase FC as the speed increase.
Added on February 24, 2012, 2:51 pmMy eyes or the 2012 Insight use all blue headlight reflector?
http://www.mudah.my/Honda+Insight+Hybrid+N...12-13842770.htmThis post has been edited by watonk: Feb 24 2012, 02:51 PM