Hi Guys,

I got some good news for you all. First of all, i need to know would there be a moderator for ISP issue on this forum? How to contact him / her? Please kindly provide some information.

Here's the good news, i've brought Streamyx's repeating issues high up to MCMC and PMO's Complaint Bureau. TMNET decided to hold a discussion session on around end of the month. I've insisted the invitation of the decision maker (Top Guy) from TMNET and MCMC to the session, else the discussion session will be meaningless. On top of that, i insisted to invite the following people:

- lowyat.net's admin / moderator of ISP Category.
- news reporters from English and Chinese Press Company to cover the discussion, so that, the public can be well informed on the conclusion of the discussion.

I hope this discussion will be a "resolution channel" to solve long pending and long repeating issues experience by the public, especially to those who has no other ISP option to choose other than Streamyx.

Let's push it through and hope this session will help the service (if cannot turn Streamyx into our neighbouring "Singtel" or "Starhub") to be more stable and more usable broadband services.


Extra Information
===========
Trace route seems to be "further blocked" by TMNET whereby, we'll not be able to trace which segment of the network is having a bottleneck or having issues with congestion and so on. Hence during the issue solving, the action make the troubleshooting with TMNET engineers alot harder and almost zero information the engineer can use to troubleshoot a certain particular issue, especially the slow browsing issues.

During previous issues, i had started the investigation on the network issues with one of the international backbone provider that so happened to be in one of the troubleshooting event. Based on the trace route information provided, the engineer (after double-checked on the network reported network issues) confirmed that the routing's bottleneck / congestion is happening WITHIN TMNET network infrastructure, hence, there's nothing much they can do to ease up the connectivity.

I mentioned TMNET's engineer because these 2 engineers are willing to help up and to solve the critical issues for my customers.

This is only one of the events happened. There are more which i'm not convenient to post it here. Here's the clues, Does any ISP using TMNET's infrastructure? Do they (Other ISP) having problems like that? Why?

Thanks for your time reading this post. Hope to hear from the moderators and you guys, so that we can prepare ourselves for the discussion and get things sort out asap.

I don't know what can I help here, but if this is really true, you have my most sincere thanks for bringing this up!

if this is true den streamyx will be improved

Wow, fast response.

Yes this is true, unless they cancel the discussion. I'm thinking it would help alot if we all compile all recent cases with Stremayx and submit to MCMC as a prove so that MCMC can take solid action as part of the initiative to improve TMNET's service.

MCMC's latest response was, they're drafting new guidelines / regulation and have TMNET comply to it. I read alot of article about the complaints on the net, but sadly, i guess it's not channeled to the right departments. When i mentioned about issues and things that's currently happening with Streamyx, MCMC seems having not much ideas. So, brought everything up to MCMC.

Hope you guys would do the same as the strength from a lone ranger isn't strong enough to change the situation. Furthermore, please please help to spread the news to everybody.

Thanks guys.

This post has been edited by webdesignempire: May 8 2009, 07:07 PM

Jaring do use TM's infra to provide their wired BB service

errm.. is there any proof that can proof this??

This is great news. I hope both sides will come to a resolution that will help solve most of the problems everyone is experiencing, or at least bring it to light so that they may work on improving it. If it's just for show and talk with no action, then that is gonna suck. Congrats to those who have made it possible, and good luck with the meeting! I hope a lot of good comes out of this.

Hi,

As per for the proof, you may call MCMC look for Mr. Saiful Azhar Johari about the new guidelines or regulation (i don't know what they call it officially). As per for Mr. Saiful's email address, you will have to get it from him. As per the TMNET & MCMC discussion session is invitation based. So, i'm not sure whether TMNET will release any confirmed information to you.

On the other hand, i really hope TMNET fulfill their promises to contact lowyat.net's admin or moderator. Then, you may feel free to get the confirmation from him / her.


Genral Contact information:
SKMM Consumer Complaints Bureau
Malaysian Communications and Multimedia Commission
63000 Cyberjaya
Selangor

Telephone: +60 3 86888000
Facsimile: +60 3 86881880
Complaint Hotline: 1-800-888-030
Email: aduanskmm@cmc.gov.my

I will be happy to come to this event :-)

Pls pm me for more details

This post has been edited by MX510: May 8 2009, 07:34 PM

Since it's invitation based, i'll post the updates here after TMNET's corporate com contacted me later.

after seen the proof i feel more confidents to you..
can a normal member of lyn join the event..?

Ow, this should be pinned...

If that true, it will be good to and fair to us... as their customer...

Bringing some of normal lowyat.net members could help a lot and be the witness just like having court...

Have u ever bother invite the author/owner of http://www.redesignmalaysia.com ? I think he very qualify to be one of those invitation.

Yeah, i really hope it would be as transparent and as well-shared as possible. We see how we can make things happen as we go along with it....

---

Added on May 8, 2009, 7:56 pmGood idea... i'll call TMNET again and request them to include Josh in as well.

This post has been edited by webdesignempire: May 8 2009, 07:56 PM

No malay? No malay is like so racist.

Plus invite malay press paper. Cover the whole malaysia lah.

Hope is true.

China link need improve. I can't visit my supplier webpage.

Hit me up with the details later

Oh you should invite MalaysianWireless also , and a couple of other folks in this meeting. Maybe blogger Jeff Ooi as well

can you arrange to make it live ?

maybe with a shoutbox/live chat for us to send our proof
ie speedtest result,ping time so on?

ok i would seriously like to attend this discussion too, just to see if i can learn anything, is this open to everyone to attend?

edit: ahh looks like its just invite only, hope ppl that attend would record or document all these stuff

i support all the people attending

This post has been edited by thxxht: May 8 2009, 09:23 PM

sayang please read above, invitation only.

I'm currently communicating with Mr. Saiful Azhar Johari from MCMC too, he too acknowledge the issue of TM. I'm am currently sending in more prove and related links such as lowyat forum's topics, speedtests, pings and also links to bloggers which have expressed the condition of TM's internet service. Also, i will send an email to PMO as TS did and we'll see how things go. I hope my involvement will give them more pressure and priority to our situation. I will speak to Mr. Saiful about the discussion and if possible i will want to attend the discussions as i have so much prove and data to show to the press about streamyx's connectivity. TS if u need my data (pingplotter test and speedtests) please do let me know. TM's Mr.Zul from Customer Support informed me that TM's role is just to provide internet access and is not responsible for Inter-ISP connectivity and international links. If so, i think all of us here could set up an ISP claiming speeds of up to 4Mbps and say that we are not responsible for international connections too, i believe their own policy can be used againts them. Mr."webdesignempire" i am more than ready to assist you and back u up in this case. Hit me up anytime u need me ; )

This post has been edited by andrew9292: May 8 2009, 09:32 PM

this is an awesome idea

agreed. perhaps the moderators can set up a special forum or chatbox which enables users to send in their pings and speedtests. i hope the moderators can come up with that soon, so that all the users can be informed to start saving their screenshots etc etc, as all of u know, TM cannot be trusted and they might just make the connections tip-top on the discussion day. i really hope that the discussion event will happen and lowyat.net is able to confirm that they can come up with something stated above quickly so that users can start collecting data and presenting it on discussion day.

p.s if TM is monitoring this, they will know that that day will be the end of them.

This post has been edited by andrew9292: May 8 2009, 09:38 PM

one more thing, even if we can't be there in person, we can also help prepare questions for them too

like why is the region affected if they are "upgrading" one area
....etc

this thread needs more attention from the higher up. perhaps it would do if you post this in section main site / forum feedback and helpdesk ?

and perhaps a cover story at the front page of lowyat.net would help ? moderator some help pls ?

This post has been edited by liquidsny: May 9 2009, 05:52 AM

I dun think they can be trusted since they can ignore the whole countries complaints and change their T&C " sesuka hati " to protect themself when they cant get something done . This promise they made mayb just another plan to delay whatever they try to fix or just to temp " layan " ur complaint cos they got the power , the power of monopolisation , u can either take it or leave it why i wanna bargain with u ?

If they really take it serious why end of month ? This is a serious problem that's affecting the whole country and should be solve asap . So the meeting was scheduled at the end of this month ? Then after meeting they " promise " to solve the connection problem " asap " ? 1 more month ? I bet that's what they gonna say so they bought another 2 month just to agree to meet with u .

I dun think we can do anything about this as the only solution lies in government's hands . Competion = improvement and better service . No competition = eat or die .

Frankly say i'm tired of screamyx shit and the way they handle things is really unproffesional and irresponsible . Frequent dc , unstable and slow connectivity , stupid CS , technician that's always " busy " , change of T&C sesuka hati and " faulty cable " everymonth ..... etc . What can u expect from their TOP when u meet them ?

This post has been edited by siukeong7888: May 9 2009, 09:10 AM

Appreciated your suggestion.

As per for this ones, i think it would be more appropriate to let TMNET decides it. However, which press is more appropriate? Any suggestion?

I'm collecting suggestion here too and will send an email to MCMC and PMO's Complaint Bureau to inform them regarding about TMNET's decision to put up such discussion.

-edit-deleted-



This post has been edited by andrew9292: May 9 2009, 10:26 PM

Vanue?

This post has been edited by flodder: May 9 2009, 10:17 AM

8TV, NTV7, TV3 and RTM. U must tell them, we the rakyat see TM as a Government Linked Company (GLC). Currently we are paying RM88/99 for speeds worst than dail up. When a major GLC company is not delivering what it promised, the rakyat will look at the government for help, but we found out that the government is not doing anything and is not even aware of the situations down here sometimes, which is totally againts najib's 1malaysia's policy, which is concentrate on the rakyat 1st. If the government does not take steps to tackle this issue, it can be said that Barisan National will not bring more votes from the younger generation and alike. U must tell them that, slap them on their face, make them wake up.

This post has been edited by andrew9292: May 9 2009, 10:25 AM

Thanks alot andrew9292.

What you have mentioned is very very similar to what i've gone through. I'll add up some extra information on the inter-link thingy that TMNET claims.

1. TMNET said or claims that TM's role is to provide internet access which is true. and will not responsible for Inter-ISP connectivity and international link which is true also. I agreed with them. BUT, the thing based on the condition is as below and the below condition is their full responsibilities,
- Has TMNET subscribed to "connect" with the "right bandwidth" which having sufficient bandwidth for connectivity from local to international link or vice versa?

2. I had the one of the T1 ISP the Cogent Co engineer confirmed on one of the issue, that the bottleneck is WITHIN TMNET's network infrastructure and there's nothing much they can do. Again, this is TMNET's full responsibilities. It simply because the bottleneck / congestion is happening within their network and yet until today, "Is the bottleneck happen within you network?" question, has not been answered and is avoided till today.

Based on these statement, all related communication emails are still in my Gmail. I would love to present it during the session.

There're a few things i plan to stress and to get a ETR (estimated time of resolution) and solid action from TMNET or MCMC.

- Browsing through International Sites.
- Network infrastructure (bottleneck issue)
- TMNET's call center and Field Operation competency
- Trace Route which seems to be "further blocked", (i've double-check with network engineers in US who's our counter part, the statement they made "there's no reason they should disable the trace route" and he agreed that unless the ISP has something to hide from us.
- TMNET's Best Effort Policy which TMNET's staff use as a "shield" whenever we drill to the root of the issues.


Should there be any category that we need to have TMNET sort it out. Let's get it organized and categorized and please kindly list here or pm me then i'll prepare accordingly for the discussion.

---

Added on May 9, 2009, 10:31 amHi thxxht,

I doubt i'll be able to put it up live on web, but if permitted, i hope we can get somebody record the whole session on voice or video for later updates to public.

This post has been edited by webdesignempire: May 9 2009, 10:31 AM

cool man even cogent Co engineer also come out...
as a streamyx user i feel so thank full for u ts..

Malaysia ISPs always use better effort as 'explanation', but results from their best effort are so bad that services are unreliable and/or unusable. In addition, cost of broadband in Malaysia is not low (absolute and relative to quality of services)

I've been involved in similar discussions between TIME/MCMC/CFM and myself.

Feel free to contact me if you need any help/information.

That would a very useful information. Some part of it, we should let it "roll" by itself because once this session is held. There'll surely be second chapter. We trying to not to touch too much of the political matters, instead, we only emphasizing and push TMNET for a solution to end such lousy services.

Basically, most of us, we don't care what's the relationship between TM and other parties. All and what we want is to get what we paid for, and get on with our life. For example, i work as web developer. A bad ISP services cost me a nuke in overhead cost as i have to help my customers repeatedly due to the endless repeating issues caused by TMNET. In short, we are paying alot more when calling 1300, time wasted (time = money & life on earth), worst is, your reputation by investing in reliable IDC gone to the drain.

This is a one way ticket that will only reach the final destination whereby solution is to be provided on time. In the end, if all of us including the authorities found TMNET is only fit in providing voice services nationwide, and so be it, let TM continue with the voice service empire and leave the data services for others; the WIRED broadband services market should be open wide for other serious players.

Again, a lone ranger with this bit of strength, cannot do much. I sincerely call for the assistance and cooperation from you guys in making a stable and reliable broadband services a reality.

Thanks alot guys.

---

Added on May 9, 2009, 11:05 amGood stuff biatch0,

I think we need a method to organize and categorized the opinions/issues so that we could put it into a list for the discussion. And i intended to pre-compile a copy of it and have it sent to MCMC and PMO's Complaint Bureau for their records and filing.

Hope you could suggest us some method that will help get things organized so that we will be able to have more effective communication mainly with MCMC and PMO's Complaint Bureau should they also being invited.

Thanks man.

This post has been edited by webdesignempire: May 9 2009, 11:05 AM

I guess that had covered a lot of aspects...but i have a few questions to add if u don't mind.

1.The Cogent CO engineer found out that the bottleneck is WITHIN TM. The thing is, is the bottleneck done on purpose or is it because of an overwhelming amount of users? All of sudden from Mid-March or so our internet started to crawl and they issued the news that they were having "circuit faults?" on SMW3 cable. Since then it appears that our connection never improved even though they claimed the circuit fault was fixed,

This leaves me to wonder if there really is a fault with the cable. And i also dont believe all of a sudden in mid-March perhaps 1 Million users signed up for streamyx and bottleneck its network until now? Just wondering if we are looking at the right thing to complain.

2.I have strong reasons to believe that TM has a technology to control the routing/speed on a user-to-user or area-to-area basis, as after i complained to MCMC and PMO, it seems that my connection is getting back it's FULL speed on the SAME IP address. It was a huge change from that morning(slow) to evening(fast) on the same IP.

However this is not important, just that i have prove of the connection change which can be brought up later.

3. Best Effort and Fair Usage Policy need to be rewritten and MCMC has to put guidelines on those 2 policies. Best Effort? It seems like they are not even putting any effort. Fair Usage Policy? Fair to who? All of us are getting dial up speeds when we pay nearly a hundred a month, some even pay more. That has to be done so that we can achieve a long-term resolution to our crisis.

This post has been edited by andrew9292: May 9 2009, 11:15 AM

@webdesignempire
Why don't you invite sinchiew in this discussion?

I am not sure this really can use or not since I only manage to find this contact info
This actually is for people to recommend Chinese Blog but no harm to try and I am sure they will give some response
cyberworld@sinchiew.com.my
016-2222315

The event overview was the Cogent Co engineer confirmed the location of the bottleneck is due to the troubleshooting that i started to do first (we all know trying our best to solve the problems on our side is more effective). I couldn't trace from my side to our IDC (Internet Data Center), so i use another traceroute software finally pick up every single ip and the readings while having the IDC engineer trace from their ends and work with the Cogent Co engineers. The "uplink" and "download link" has route through different routing as eg, from PJ section 17 you go to Sunway using Federal Highway, and back to PJ using LDP via SS2. Usually, the "download link" will be having high traffic.

Now, we all know that TMNET has different customer base / group / classification namely "the normal user" who use dynamic IP and paying 66 / 88 bucks / month. And others who are fixed IP, IDSL and etc... In one of the email replied by the BMC department, let me show you the funny explanation that doesn't make sense and furthermore, the BMC manager was taking a shortcut by troubleshooting at his preferred location instead of come to my office. The funny things is, whenever we are facing slow browsing, i call their call center, they got no packet loss, connection is good. But on our side, the case is different and that time we were having 40-50% packet loss.

I've removed the identifiable information (in respect to others privacy). You have a look at the email, take a while guess, and you'll know what i mean. Note: For those who have not gone through such process might not know what's happening in this event, you may skip this portion.

Here's the emails.
===========
Good day.

Dear Sir and all..

Please be informed that we normally look into a very specific technical issue. Based on our understanding from the messages, the performance of the service is low. This kind of issue is catagorised as follows :

1) performance of the connectivity to all web / Domestic site
2) performance of the connectivity to International site


Based on the below email (before this) we have concentrated to 02 streamyx account given to us.

- xxx@streamyx
- xxx@streamyx

Basically the above are the source (source of the request packet) and I was make known that there is 01 international destination has been used for the test.

== destination : xxx.xxx.81.229

Both of the account have been tested from our site and there is no high latency or packet loss that may contribute to the said problem.

Anyway should we want to check about the connectivity to the Internatinal website , a destination can be used as benchmark to identify whether the existing performnace is acceptable or not , is there anything TM can do to improve the connectivity. For example, www.yahoo.com is used by many users to test the connectivity to US, www.google.co.uk for UK and so on.

Please also be informed that we have tried to come out with the possible return trace from the above IP given to us - xxx.xxx.81.229.

The result as follows :
Query: trace
Addr: 124.13.63.100

trace 124.13.63.100 (currently xxx@streamyx is connected)

Type escape sequence to abort.
Tracing the route to 124.13.63.100

1 gi10-0.224.core01.lax01.atlas.cogentco.com (66.250.4.5) 4 msec 0 msec 0 msec
2 te4-2.ccr02.lax01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.1.34) 4 msec 4 msec 0 msec
3 te7-3.ccr02.sjc01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.2.150) 16 msec 12 msec 12 msec
4 te3-4.mpd01.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.6.102) 12 msec 16 msec 12 msec
5 telecommalaysia.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.12.2) 328 msec 328 msec 324 msec
6 58.27.106.209 324 msec 324 msec 324 msec
7 58.27.103.122 312 msec 308 msec 308 msec
8 58.27.103.33 312 msec 308 msec 312 msec
The above is the best option for the return trace as of today 6.00.pm (malaysian Time).Should we see the result closely, the max latency during return trace to TM (domestic) site is averaging at 350ms which is almost equal to another US benchmark site such as www.yahoo.compls find the below : Pinging www.yahoo-ht3.akadns.net [209.131.36.158] with 32 bytes of data:Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=300ms TTL=55Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=359ms TTL=55Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=380ms TTL=55Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=403ms TTL=55Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=426ms TTL=55Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=449ms TTL=55Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=474ms TTL=55Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=291ms TTL=55Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=313ms TTL=55Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=336ms TTL=55Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=300ms TTL=55Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=382ms TTL=55Ping statistics for 209.131.36.158: Packets: Sent = 12, Received = 12, Lost = 0 (0% loss),Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: Minimum = 291ms, Maximum = 474ms, Average = 367ms

The above result may differ from time to time because dynamic ip user will have different ip address every timenew PPP session is establish. That is why some users may have different experience. Anyway, fixed IP address usersmay have better opportunity to gain better connectivity.(depends on the prefered destination).Another issue raised was on email service used by customers. I would appreciate if you could furnish more info on thecomplainant. We will try to, at least isolate the issue and propose an alternative to minimize the impact tocustomer end.1) Streamyx login ID 2) email server name/IP/webserver/pop mail3) Technical support (from cust site)Thanks


Mohamad Faisal b Azizan
Broadband Management Centre,IPNOC
TM Wholesale
TM Bhd

Your best bet is to do a tracert during afternoon. @ these time, is where the lines are in worst condition.

I found out that plenty of time, if u ping the destination is 400+ms. About half of it is within TMnet network. There is really something wrong within TMnet routing.


Another issue is there is a huge different of line quality between the IP ranges. Some has ridiculous high ping time, some have low bandwidth, while some can get as good as it can.


I would what u guys to highlight above issues.

This post has been edited by billytong: May 9 2009, 11:44 AM

Quoting parts of the email

----Me: Our site? (side) How can they do a test for an account from their side, doesnt make sense. If they can, why the results differ? (Sorry i'm not an expert in their systems)

----Me: As far as i know destination IP 58.27.103.33 is a local destination and pings to 58.27.103.33 should not exceed 25ms as a maximum, at the results we can see that is was at 308ms. TM is comparing it to www.yahoo.com, which is an international located site. Honestly should i laugh or cry to that?

Is he even qualified? If so, i believe many of us in LYN are even more qualified to work in TM.

Strangely as of today, some users in certain areas can browse web when other users are reporting in streamyx slowdown thread that they cant even access local content

This post has been edited by andrew9292: May 9 2009, 01:24 PM

, you got it... So, we'll prepare for discussion, get them get things done so that we can continue with our life. Help spread the words...

Thanks man.

Wish I could do something about it, but unfortunately I can't. Keep it up guys, malaysian users really need to win this fight.

I think you may be wrongly reading the traceroute.

The traceroute starts from LA (gi10-0.224.core01.lax01.atlas.cogentco.com).

The landing point in Malaysia is telecommalaysia.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.12.2). While 320ms++ is by no means wonderful, it isn't horrible either.

Depending on what kind of meeting you have set up, spouting out accusations like above can turn around and bite you in the ass. In your correspondence, keep your calm; some sarcasm can work to your benefit... try not to be pushy or sound angry. If it's a closed meeting, you may want to bring a friend who is able to give you legal advice... and if you aren't 100% clear about the technical aspect, a technical person as well. The majority of your complaint/issue should be able to broken down into points/questions/concerns that you have about the service; write these down... and during the meeting, MAKE SURE YOU GO THROUGH THEM ONE BY ONE. Given the choice, TM (or TIME in my case) will avoid as many of them as possible.

If you are short on points, read the MCMC laws and legislations thoroughly. They may help you to come up with more substance. (This may also bite you in the ass, which is why I recommended the friend who can provide legal advice above).

This post has been edited by biatch0: May 9 2009, 02:39 PM

Yup, exactly. The information really helpful. I believe on that day, i wouldn't want to touch too much on the inner technical portion on how they configure their routers, load balancing and things like that.

We'll mainly concentrate on the result we get or the experience we have with their services which can be considered as a "black box" (Block box testing is a kind of testing carry out by analyzing the outcome without knowing the in-depth logic/configuration of the inner system) result in programming terms. In summary, even we're going to bring TMNET to court, the set of data or claims that we did via the "black box" study is just NOT ENOUGH / NOT QUALIFY as a piece of prove or evident. Moreover, the whole objective is to get TMNET to solve the problems we're facing asap instead of blaming them, or telling the world how bad their services are which is pointless.

Once a upon a time before, i suggested to MCMC to setup an independent consultant team to verify TMNET's network infrastructure and compile an assessment report to MCMC. The suggestion is to reveal what's actually going on. This is the most effective way to verify and identify the root cause of all issues and at later stage provide solution to solve them one by one.

As per for the ping result responded by them, to me, that simply doesn't mean anything as the test has been carried out at the end of different network segments and at different time frame. Long before the whole things got worst, we would be very happy when we get approx 350ms reply and around 5% data loss on ping, sometimes 10% is considered very good to us. One experience that cannot be denied is, when on the line with the call center guys, their ping results and ours at 2 different points (our ends and call center's ends) is having a huge different. they get approx 270ms reply and less than 5% data loss (minimum data / packet loss on ping result is normal) while we're having more than approx 1000ms reply and 40-50% packet loss.

Events like this, we are able to gather the data on our ends, but would they really justify it by collecting the data? I doubt there'll even a note written on the report record during the previous call in. I really doubt so.

All and all, we're going to communicate with them, get a date where all mentioned issues can be resolved and the compensation thingy.

Our initial and main intention to invite relevant party such as the reporters, lowyat forum's admin / moderator, and others related parties is to give constructive contribution during the session and convey the message so that the public is well-informed about the progress or the initiative and efforts TMNET trying to achieve in brushing up their services.

Good job webdesignempire,I'm really hoping that TMnet slow speeds is gone and fixed once and for all....and hope they remove that stupid clause in their agreements that states it is not their fault at slow international download/upload speeds.

Good on you. This is what happens if you persist and get to the right people. Hopefully this will actually happen. Maybe this is one of the reasons why it appears that 4Mbps Streamyx users are now being assigned to the 218.111 IP range which gives better connections.?

Just FYI. I mentioned this in another thread. Back in 1996, Jaring dialup internet users were having technical / connectivity and tariff / call costs issues with (then known as) TMB.

TMB changed their phone tariffs and internet users costs increased. TMB came out with packages which internet users did not think was fair. So Jaring users protested.

Briefly:
- users complained to TMB.
- the press covered the issue.
- the cabinet instructed TMB to meet with internet users on this issue.
- a closed door meeting between TMB officials and 5 representative Jaring users took place.
- the papers were there to report on it.
- suggestions of an open letter to the PM.
- a collection was started to place a full page advertisment in the papers regarding the issue.

The final step of running and advertisement in the papers were cancelled as TMB finally introduced the 1.5sen/min dialup charge for 1511 Jaring users.
The already collected money was given to a charity.

Hopefully something good will come out of such a meeting for Streamyx users this time.

Sorry, my apologies. Now that i have re-read the email a few times, i get what it means.

Dear Ts this is a few issues u can bring up or take note,

1) Fair Usage Policy is an issue, fair usage to who? 4Mbps users get full speed with 218 ip address and all other home based packages claim speeds of less than 20% of subscribed rate. Fair to 4Mbps only? TM will strive to improve the condition of its services(press will release this)

2) Speed is on Best Effort Basis, so TM's best effort is 20% of subscribed rate when Malaysians pay more than most other broadband users in other developed countries. Are the people in TM qualified to run TM? Can TM's current infrastructure actually support all of it's users? Why is it since March the connection worsen and doesn't improve since. Was TM aware? Is TM going to address this issue? When will it be resolved? What steps are taken that will rectify the issue and how long?(press will release this)

In my humble opinion, those two policies have to be reviews, as all of us know TM will push the blame to Fair Usage Policy claiming that the speed we are getting is because of the distribution of speed among users. [Its as if TM only has a 3 lane highway, yet it is inviting more cars (users) and bigger cars or trucks (4Mbps users) to their highway] They can also push the blame to Best Effort Basis saying that is the best that they can do and that TM is only to provide internet access and has no control over international linking.

3) MCMC has to impose new guidelines on their quality and consistency of service as well as the maximum down-time allowed.(USA's broadband uptime is almost 99%) In Malaysia, week after week there will be a service interruption notice on TM's site. That is for consistency. Quality would be for speed as we all know. (In certain cases, even if pings are acceptable and no PL, the download rates still do not pass 5kbps) TM has to be responsible for international speeds, at least to a certain extent. (press will update public on this new guidelines)

4) TM has been doing a "penipuan besar" will TM refund its customers for the almost unusable internet since March? (Yes, BIG LIE. Make them feel bad, its also a good slap on their face but u must have evidence that shows so) (if they rebate, press will release, if they dont, press will not say anything i guess)


This isnt so simple, i think this will be a closed and controlled discussion, alot of initial props must be done so that neither parties will be at a losing end (TM wont let that happen) and a solution can come about for all users. Of course, if u plan to mention the issues above, do it in your own proper fashion Reading it out my way will be really really harmful.

I hope this meeting can carry out successfully.
And I hope they can make a clear definition of their Fair Usage Policy.
Because this policy could be anything they like if they don't stated it clearly.

Whatever , i'm not trying to discouraging ppl i'm just telling u the FACT and try to warn u NOT TO BE FOOL by those TOP cos like i said they mayb just temporarily " layan " u just to bought them sometimes .

Believe me nobody want slow connection and believe me too i had tried every things from mcmc even to press media and they still - > bring it ur best come on hahaha . Not like what u said doing nothing i already taken action way earlier than u .

If u think i like dcing every 30 min , take 2 min to load a website , playing online game ( wow ) with 5 sec delay or even worst etc , then u'r wrong but what can u do ?
Press media r on their side they wont publish anything bad about TM and they'll just tell u haha we know the problem but what can we do : ) .

But whatever i'm just telling u the FACT and my exp so do whatever u like cos i'm a stupid person , make sure u make aggreement with them in black & white not just verbally , but i cant see any point why they wanna do that so make sure u bring a lawyer with u the one powerful enough to deal with TM ( government ) , Good Luck ~ ~~

Thanks alot for the information guys,


The TMB event from mylinear and the information by andrew9292 are truely helpful. And to siukeong, what you mentioned not isn't really my worries. i do worry about that actually. coz if it happens, meaning to say, i'll have to go a longer way to get the things done.

To be frank, i didn't wanna bring such things up and until TMNET has to meet us up to solve the issue. For being working in the IT related service industry for such a long time, from Malaysia to Singapore and back to Malaysia again. I simply just cannot believe an organization especially in such a huge size has to have this kind of embarrassing stuff happening before they really take some bold actions to fix the things up.

Have been using streamyx for 6 years. This is the most bazaar time that i didnt' believe it really did happen.

- Schedule maintenance during peak hours.
- Call center staff that didn't even know what is "domain name" or "URL" which considered as general terms in the industry.
- A call center that will never give you a report number after you have called.
- Call center staff, they told me "you cannot talk to the supervisor because you are not the second level customer".
- Worst things is the repeating issues that keeps on happening here and there.
- Seems like "complaint-proof" organization because they seems "used to" receive complaints that kind and make me have a feeling that they don't take things seriously.

During early years of issues, i crossed checked with Singapore friends, theirs were okay and we have problems. Things happening a few times here, i thought it's normal for such ISP giant, but in fact Singtel or Starhub haven't even happened throughout their operation which is the scheduled maintenance thingy. After i've put the complaint through one of the supervisors, it didnt' happen again now or at least not that i noticed.

mylinear said i'm consistent and got to the right people. In fact, it's the consistency of streamyx issues made me consistent. I got to the right people, from call center to those on the top, a long long way man.

To be frank, i didn't want to talk or deal with TMNET, such matter shorten my life further as such dealing really get on my nerve. But to stick long in this industry, i had no choice, but to give it a try for the last time. TMNET will change or not, i have no idea, at least i tried.

Well, let's keep our finger crossed and see what will happen next.

Firstly, I do hope something useful for Streamyx users will come out of such a meeting. So don't take this the wrong way.

Generally, the top most people are usually not there. They will send representatives to the meeting with instructions on what to say or do already predetermined. The excuse may be the top people are away on business or another meeting came up or whatever. Even if they are there, most of these top people don't really care as they are at the top already, if you know what I mean.

If you think about it, MCMC is supposed to be the monitors. Do they need users to push for a meeting? Their job is to monitor and caution / fine TM for poor performance. You mean MCMC cannot hold a meeting of their own to discuss all complaints with TM without users pushing for it? Its all a matter of whether people want to do the work that they are supposed to be doing. Or whether they want to close an eye to what is going on. MCMC has guidelines and regulations to be followed. It is their job to ensure those are being followed.

After all the hundreds of complaints in these forums and other forums / blogs etc, or in the papers, TM does not know something is wrong? TM does not announce what the problem is? TM thinks everything is ok? The top people in TM don't read the papers? They don't have meetings with their downline who are aware of the problems??
They are either not doing anything about it because they got their own plans which we don't know about, or they don't know what to do to fix the problems.

Again, I hope we benefit from this meeting. But TM will probably use this to their advantage. That is, the reports in the media that they were willing to meet with users etc etc. They will probably say what we already know. That is, they are in the process of upgrading their infrastructure. They are upgrading their backbone to fiber. They are replacing the old DSLAMs with IP-DSLAMS or RDSLAMs. They plan to eventually replace last mile copper lines with fiber to the home (FTTH). The AAG cable will be online in a vouple of months or so which will boost their international bandwidth by some 60Gbps or whatever figure. They are in the process of deploying HSBB which will offer users high speed internet of 10Mbps or so. Other companies can lease the HSBB infrastructure and provide their own value added services and so users will have more choices. Etc etc etc.

TM will say they are studying how to cope with users excessively using bandwidth capacity to download or P2P 24/7. They will say some 20% or so users are using 80% or so of the bandwidth which is why everyone else is also being affected. So they need to have fair usage policies. Maybe they will take the opportunity to say they will be imposing data transfer limits per month so all users can have a proper share of the bandwidth.

They will say they are resolving the different IP range problems. Because it appears that 4Mbps users are already getting better IP ranges now. And why wait till end of May? Is it because they are currently doing maintenance / upgrading of their customer service support system until end of May? So they can say what they have done to improve things. They will say they are training their support staff to be able to help users more, not just read from a standard script.

They have added a clause saying they only guarantee local connections, not international connection speeds. When asked, they will explain that there are many factors affecting international connections such as routers at various points, inter-connectivity with other bandwidth providers or ISPs, congestion on the international links, the destination data center or server being congested or under heavy load etc etc. All out of their control, so they cannot guarantee anything. And yet TM is part of the consortium with a 9-10% stake in the USD500 million AAG cable project.

Anyway, some questions to consider.

1. Why have they disabled tracert responses on their routers? Or at least when using Windows TCP based program. We can still use other software to do tracerts, so what is the point? And yet the support ask to do a tracert and screenshot and email them. With a screen full of * * * ?? Tracert is one of the basic tools to help troubleshoot network problems.

2. They need to have a proper support escalation procedure where customers can request to speak with Level-2 or higher for more serious problems than whether the ADSL light is blinking. That is why most people don't complain to support because it is of no use to speak with Level-1 most of the time. Most users can troubleshoot by themselves what the Level-1 normally asks them to do anyway. We need more tecnical help.

The support center does not have a regular Streamyx connection like we have. They are on some dedicated lines I guess. So when we say we got packet losses or high ping time, they ping ad say no such problem. Of course, its different lines, different networks, different routes etc. This sort of thing is why users get frustrated with the support.

And it is a waste of time waiting for Level-1 to fill in a report then pass it on etc, then hopefully if serious, the Service Recovery Team or the Broadband Management Center will respond after some time.

3. What is their current international bandwidth capacity and what plans to incrase it and when. Can their network and international links deal with the 1.4-1.5 million users? Or have they practised irresponsible overselling with all the promotions and agents pushing for new customers when basic stable connectivity for existing customers is not there.

4. Why do we still have 384K / 512K connections when speeds all over have increased so much? If we wer on 56K say 12 years ago, we should at least be on a minimum of 2Mbps lines now. A real basic package should be at 1Mbps at a much lesser cost than now. 2/4/8Mbps should be a norm by now. There has been no upgrade forour speeds in say the past 5 years or so and also no reduction in prices for the current packages. So we are effectively paying more than what we are getting.

---

Added on May 9, 2009, 9:10 pmThis is just an excuse. You can talk to the Level-1 supervisor if you insist and willing to stay on-hold for quite some time. I have spoken to a few of them at different occasions. However, the supervisors don't really know much either. I have documented my encounters with TM support in various posts. Some as ridiculous as being told a satellite crash is causing issues.

You can also talk to a Level-2 if you really persists. But they normally call you back to follow-up, they don't pass you directly to them.

I have posted here a few times asking people to be persistent and keep making reports and also to call the TM HQ. But it seems no one really wanted to follow though, although everyone has so much time to complain here post after post. I think another example was roy_pck who succeeded after persisting.

TM as an ISP has a shocking level of support. They don't even bother to update their website with latest announcement most of the time. A place where users should go to to check on the latest issues. I have made several complaints about this to TM Streamyx Complaints Dept and the PR Dept. Another example is when they had a cable problem on 18 Mar, but kept quiet even though users were complaining to support. I called TM HQ on 23 Mar about this and on 24 Mar, there was an announcement. It took them 1 week! I would really like to see how the CEO of TM would respond to this sort of issues.

Edit: I think I mentioned the wrong dates above. The problem was in Feb, not Mar (I think). Sorry, so many issues, lost track of dates...


This post has been edited by mylinear: May 9 2009, 10:52 PM

Exactly what i trying to tell u guys on my 1st post ( which being said that i'm stupid and discouraging ppl ) but only i'm lazy to type so long cos probably already lost hope in not just TM but Mas . Imagine a company that uses lies to cover up whatever they'r doing now and can u imagine its the biggest ISP of a country .

Just to add 1 point : Why can they use lies and excuses and ignoring the whole nation and nth happens ? MCMC sleeping ? IT minister sleeping ? So u know what i mean cos u'r dealing with government actually not TM so ........ if u dun believe me watch this video , they even can ignore ahli parliment so ..... sigh , listen to their response to Chong's accusation lol funny .........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KssRpL508gA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmb1P0TfRhk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W15xEoY2ak&feature=related

So whoever planning this i appreciated ur effort but be aware of what u gonna deal with in the future mayb , its not just TM its the " power " behind them and normally it involve $$$ ( corruption ) .

@siukeong7888
the problem is there is no regulation to protect consumer
MCMC just a organization without hands and legs...if they have powers, they don't need organized this forum/discussion with TM, straight forward force them to change...

Note: OMG now google is DOWN??
C:\Documents and Settings\GnusWinnie>ping www.google.com -t
Ping request could not find host www.google.com. Please check the name and try a
gain.

This post has been edited by gnush85: May 9 2009, 09:59 PM

IMHO, the motion to take this to higher level such as TOP guys is very much impressing. But i could rest assured as they would make a lot of excuses and to ease things down, they will announce AAG cables undersea is ready to be used on July 09 (non-official sources). And also through a non official sources too, they will sang the news to you guys that Google will have POP here (Point Of Present), which makes all of us surf even faster (as the non official source told me). I fully support this movement and i kept my finger crossed even more and hope to see a very deep impact and hopefully a wind of change.

I'm so sorry siu keong, this streamyx thing is going crazy and i let it got into me. It's my anger at that moment... I sincerely apologize to u. I need anger management and probably yoga. streamyx should sponsor

We just have to do what we can, money does not come easy, everyone knows that (except the rich brats!) And i believe that paying RM99/88/77 a month(a few months now) for a service that is barely usable can NEVER be accepted. And also many people like TS need the connection daily as it revolves around his business. . . . . .

This post has been edited by andrew9292: May 9 2009, 10:34 PM

when the whole malaysia is experiencing constant break downs/interuptions/shitty connections i think it's pretty clear something is wrong with TM's infra or their lines, hows their customer over-subsription 10:1? 20:1? 30:1? i know its probably gonna be confidential but put that in the questions too.

Malaysia ISP offers Best Effort and Leased Line based services. Best effort is for people like me who need broadband but cannot pay the price for guaranteed service for heavy download usage.

One of the reason why broadband in Malaysia is so expensive is due to the fact that all ISP will need to terminate their international traffic at one single point in Malaysia which is in Mersing (if not mistaken) before going to the international link, and that single point (the switch) belongs to TM. The cost to terminate the traffic there is extremely high. Some ISPs choose to get their own leased line and fiber to Singapore or Thailand to terminate the traffic in that country, which surprisingly could be cheaper than to terminate it in Malaysia, funny heh?

The best way is to have an independant body to take over the international traffic termination point and have all ISP to pay to rent the infra there. That would be fairer to everyone.

siukeong7888, just to say, we all have different opinions and perspective on things. That is ok. I hope you and andrew9292 agree to disagree on this issue. At this time, we can all just try to co-operae to solve a common problem. Name calling and in-fighting will not help. So let's all take it easy.

---

Added on May 9, 2009, 11:12 pmNo, you only need faster Streamyx... and all will be calm...


This post has been edited by mylinear: May 9 2009, 11:12 PM

@webdesignempire

I really appreciate the fact that you're taking the time to address the issue of horrible 1mbps broadband and above which people here have been ranting about for ages. I was recently cut off from broadband internet access for about a week and had to keep calling TMnet's call centre every single day before they decided to send a team of technicians to my house.

Anyway, it looks like you've covered a whole lot of issues but here are some I can add to the list ..

1) After my DSL link was cut off for a week and then restored, I was also reassigned and have since then been locked into the 218.111.x.x IP range. I'm a 4mbps user and have since been experiencing noticeably faster speeds on international connections (30-40KB/s per HTTP thread) using this range as opposed to the usual 5-10KB/s. About a week ago, the speed and latency were dependant on which IP range I was on but they seem to have given 4mbps users some sort of priority. I don't think this is fair as all paying customers should get the same speeds with international sites regardless of which package they are on, limited only by their package downstream speed and the achievable downstream rate. There must also be consistency of service quality between each dynamic IP range one is assigned to.

2) It is a known fact that TM practices traffic shaping for various types of P2P traffic. It's been this way for 3 years+ and I'd rather let that be a known fact when you apply for their service rather than finding that out by yourself via forums such as this one. I'm not a genius but one would assume that shaping large amounts of P2P traffic in a large network would slow things down a lot or form a bottleneck of sorts. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure that the majority of heavy P2P downloaders are more than willing to purchase various P2P-throttle bypassing services to get past these bandwidth caps which in turn renders these blocks useless. A ton of P2P services have cropped up in the LYN forum solely because TMnet has chosen to blacklist P2P traffic in an attempt to conserve bandwidth.

How do they intend to cap these downloaders which are now piggybacking P2P traffic from centralised servers on the SFTP/HTTP/FTP protocols? Are they going to shape those protocols too? Wouldn't a more viable solution be to set transfer limits..?

Please ask them how they intend to solve these problems, thanks

All we are asking for is consistency and reliability. In reality, we definitely cannot guarantee things 100% but what we can do is to give your best to make it reliable. Sadly, in this case TMNet fail. Literally.

the main point is, we want a fair IP dynamic/static, does matter is 218,219,60,124,115 all route must be same & latency too

previous i did share about different IP having different route/latency at the time i had access to most of IP range, just without 218, 219 & half 60.xx

maintenance/routing/fault submarine cable must be update at the site less than 2hour

not many ppl notice there addition hop, when we at different IP range but heading the same destination

possible there hardware capable delay the transmit/route packet round'n'around "but increases latency slightly" or it might be poor routing <some1 pls analyze it

if a FPS gamer should notice the difference, slight change latency at peak/off-peak/super-off peak

an example, just check out MY-SG (neighbor), if they really need proof, time to summon our good friend from SG trace out

if you guys need support, just called out WoW gang "i'm very sure they will support/happy with low latency"

I guess they have the most to lose from 4Mbps customers who pay RM16x-26x. Maybe users started downgrading and they decided to do something.

Please note this is mentioned on their website. So they will say you should have read the relevant documents before signing up.

http://www.streamyx.com.my/customer_care/c...ir_usage_policy

Hi guys,

Really happy to see those responses it really helps alot.

The day i fed up and decided to have the one way ticket, i will stand firm until i reach the destination. I strongly believe that TMNET will NOT grow and stand as high as our neighbour's SingTel or Starhub. At least it's not within my lifetime. I believe if they are able to get Steve Jobs on the board and turn TMNET around as he did with Apple years ago.

My objective is to get them to resolve the current broadband service stability and reliability. This objective will not be stopped by excuses or any "tai chi" kind of move because i made myself clear to them on the following condition:

1. If the decision makers aren't there, it's pointless and i'll not spending more times there during the session.
2. When i'm in there with all questions, meaning to say that, the bottom lines is to get an answer (not explanation) on what action will be taken and date the action must be in place.
3. Shall those action to be taken takes longer than 3 months, TMNET should work out a compensation programs.
4. On the tech support side, as it involve an extremely large numbers of users and large numbers of repeating issues which i don't think TMNET has right man power and right tools to cope with it in a short period of time. Hence, i will mention it, but will not drill into it much at this stage. Of course, this will be emphasize on at the later stage.

The method is simple, i would like to make everything clear to the decision makers including the MCMC as a some kind like a "notice". We need to ensure MCMC knows what's happening and should be able to do whatever are appropriate within their power, more importantly to ensure things are fixed. Else, if that doesn't triggered, we know that it's time for us to look for the "Boss", the Government.

I still have faith in our Governments regardless of who is sitting in the PM office. I believe they will do something. IF nothing has done, the answer of the whole situation is crystal clear. Such ISP, though it's really rare but it's a small portion of comparing to others like "1malaysia", don't you think so?

Well hope you get what i mean, ....

Yes, this is the case with different IP ranges which is why we say there is routing issues eg not optimum routing. Someone on a 218.111 range can confirm - there is probably 3 local hops before hitting the international link. With some other ranges like 115, 118 etc, there can be eg 6-7 local hops first. This

I'm glad someone is doing something at least.. It's a good start webdesignempire, you did something that the rest of us could only wish we could do.

True, the net have been going downhill since mid-march to the extent of can't even browse international websites. It was really odd how some websites are easily accessible while some repeatedly give time outs and not responding.

In my case, I have actually gone tired to try and complaint. Why? I've did before, complaint for almost a month because my upload speed was way below 100Kbps and nothing was fixed. I did get my download rate downgraded though, seems the last complaint I gave, they gave me a boost of 2Mbps download rate (I'm a 1 Mbps package user). It was tiring calling them almost daily and asking about the status of my report.

After mid-march, tbh, I have no idea how to complaint. Ping to yahoo is normal 217ms, ping to google is normal too but as a gamer (WoW player), a slight problem in connection is easily shown in-game, through disconnecting and lag. How do you explain this to the call centre personnel? Some even doesn't know what latency is .. and some didn't even know when I talked about pinging the Streamyx gateway

The last time I send a complaint email to tmnet about wow latency and huge ping, they told me to contact the Game administrator... and seems of late, streamyx expressed that they only cover local connection and wash their hands off international link. When I sit down and think, I question myself where to start if I were to complaint. Obviously they will tell me to try and ping yahoo, hotmail and google (which I suspected will hv around 200ms ping) and then pointed out that other websites that I tell them which has huge ping / timeouts, are inaccessible.

I hope streamyx improve their service since I've been using their service since the days of dial-up and sad to say the connection these days are a lot worse than the days of dial-up. I hope your discussion session bode well for you and the rest of us Streamyx user too. I salute you for taking the step to make a discussion with them, better than nothing I say!

good job man good job. i fully support u in this. after years and years of using streamyx eversince it was first release..

one more thing to highlight is that their staff when cant handle a problem will file a report and send a guy to our hse to check. sometimes they send a sohai who only do ping to tmnet and google which obviously show good ping. one more sohai even say my router got spoil when speed is slow.. mana tau use his modem also same speed

other thing is they would only do speedtest at their website or only kl connection instead of international. whenever international speed low they say its nothing to do with them and blame that website or server is slow and not tmnet's fault.
i still remember last time one guy dont even know how to open command prompt to do ping and ask me how..... how la can be hired by tmnet? the operators? dont even talk about them la... told them i using router to connect to online they keep ask me go to the wizard to create new connection pulak.

anyway, some suggestions for you ts. u shld also make the local pc mags to highlight bout this problem and discussion thing and u can try star newspaper INTECH section. definately need more people to be aware of this.

and also last thing is show them the overall result from speedtest.net.. the part when u finish doing speedtest then the ending got show average speed from people using TMNET.. i still remember got one chart showing all the speedtest result in malaysia.. got one called GOVERNMENT something direct line getting crazy speed and top in the result under malaysia where else tmnet is far below it..

this totally not in sync with najib's 1 malaysia thing, bout people being put first.. government sit in aircond room goyang kaki, boring or tulan that time go assembly meeting release anger and fight la, then sit nice camry car with VIP car no. plate which is totally needless..

thanks for reading my super ultraman cicakman pokemon long post and sry in advance for my powderful engrish and incase i offend anyone with my statement above.


if this still kenot solve the problem i think i ready to camp outside streamyx office d. show of protest by sleeping outside the office like one guy who did that in us, sleep outside the government office to protest antiwar for months

This post has been edited by noblesse: May 10 2009, 03:52 AM

tat day i occur frequent dc and i called to 100 asking is there any matainence, at the time, my fren call in to me asking i got frequent dc or not. den i started to know that is not my alone prob. talking to d cs is like stupid sohai chat. he keep asking me run command and check my ip add, and saying my desktop lan card got prob. he refuse to admit is cause by streamyx prob, and the last the guy said is only either my cable modem lan card spoilt. and not their prob. after few hours my line b to stable. none of my equimemnt spoil as he claimed it.

they always like that one la. either your problem, or that server and website problem. they nvr admit their problem wan.. the only time they admit their problem is when they make the auto announcement when u call them

Somehow, I really begin to questioning of what do they mean by ISP. Intranet Service Provider or Internet Service Provider? Changing their T&C by telling us they are not solely responsible for the international link but can guarantee the local site is certainly unacceptable.

This post has been edited by BlueWind: May 10 2009, 10:15 AM

where is wkkay, rajukabir, hellbound and other networking gurus. I've been waiting for their replies in this topic lol

This post has been edited by aMer: May 10 2009, 12:08 PM

Guys watch your language! No wonder you people cant complain to MCMC or Prime Minister Office, u don't even speak well mannered English. Please, this can be considered a very high profile case and its very likely that this thread and others are being monitored closely. There is enough cursing in extreme slowdown thread. Speaking like a lalazhai (kampung boy) does not help us at all. In fact it will degrade out status.

This post has been edited by andrew9292: May 10 2009, 12:20 PM

There're better places and more effective places for me to camp than TMNET's HQ.

A scenario,

Let say we have a super highway connecting Singapore and Thailand with 12 lanes each. One day, you decided to drive from Klang Valley to Singapore. You had a smooth drive until you reach JB city center. But too bad, when you're just about to drive out of the border, the route is narrow, congested and crippled in some ways that make you almost stale in your car. At this time, if you were to make a complaint, who do you think you should call? Should you call Singapore's LTA (Land Transport Authority) or PWD (Public Work Department) or you should call Malaysia's JKR or City Council?

No matter how good they are in drafting the policies or Disclaimers, this is something they cannot deny and cover up if the issues (eg, congestion) is happening at TMNET's backyard.

To a piece of design, you can express whatever opinion you like or in any way you want it. This is because it has no absolute close end answer which is "correct" or "wrong" and "yes" or "no".

To technical stuff like this, if TMNET said international link isn't their responsibilities which i totally agreed provided they have to ensure and prove their end is in good shape. But to me, based on TMNET's reputation today, i simply cannot allow myself to just believe whatever that's going to lay in front of me without an independent entity's certification or supports.

Who should bear full responsibilities in choose the right Internet backbone provider and with a suitable bandwidth capacity that will cope with the usage? If the current bandwidth isn't sufficient to cope with the current usage, who should be in full responsibilities in renting more communication link or renting links with higher bandwidth?

From verbal source. When question has been directed to MCMC asking why is that TMNET cannot perform even to meet the minimum service level as Singtel can do many times than that? TMNET's feedback as "Singapore is an advanced and developed country".

Do you think when we're using Core 2 Duo processor, Singaporean are using Core 64 Duo processor? Or Singapore is using huge-twice-failure/slow-proof fiber optic or a 1000TG satellite links? The latest technology is available to everybody globally today. An identical or even an enhanced version Silicon Valley can be build in the middle of Sahara desert or African Grassland as well.

About the international link issue is simple. If TMNET insist that international links isn't their responsibilities. Fine, i teach you an effective method.

Let say, you cannot access a website say www.x.com write them an email requesting them to trace route to your IP (when you hook up Streamyx, that is the IP assigned to you via www.whatismyip.com). From the trace route done by the web server administrator.

It should looks like this:
traceroute to 218.111.0.234 (218.111.0.234), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 xxx-xxx-xxx-161.xxxx.net (xxx.xxx.xxx.161) 0.600 ms 0.457 ms 1.089 ms
2 ec1-17.gwy01.sctn01.xxxx.net (96.9.191.1) 1.096 ms 1.082 ms 1.848 ms
3 gi1-13.ccr01.phl03.atlas.cogentco.com (38.112.240.33) 8.535 ms 8.536 ms 8.663 ms
4 te4-4.ccr01.phl01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.0.189) 8.653 ms te4-3.ccr01.phl01.atlas.cogentco.com (66.28.4.233) 8.750 ms te4-4.ccr01.phl01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.0.189) 8.729 ms
5 te8-2.mpd03.jfk02.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.2.110) 11.325 ms 11.305 ms 11.255 ms
6 te2-2.mpd01.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.6.1) 17.080 ms te4-2.mpd01.bos01.atlas.cogentco.com (66.28.4.201) 16.741 ms 16.240 ms
7 te7-8.ccr01.ord01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.7.81) 39.109 ms te8-8.mpd01.or
d01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.24.54) 39.841 ms *
8 te9-8.mpd01.mci01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.7.138) 51.873 ms te4-2.mpd01.mci01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.6.158) 50.857 ms 50.837 ms
9 te3-4.mpd01.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.6.165) 85.612 ms 85.570 ms 85.562 ms
10 te9-4.mpd01.sjc01.atlas.cogentco.com (66.28.4.182) 86.860 ms 86.844 ms 86.823 ms
11 te7-2.mpd01.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com (66.28.4.74) 87.239 ms 87.223 ms 87.201 ms
12 * telecommalaysia.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.12.2) 292.776 ms *
13 58.27.106.209 (58.27.106.209) 306.213 ms * 58.27.106.205 (58.27.106.205) 306.620 ms
14 58.27.103.122 (58.27.103.122) 306.321 ms 203.106.6.189 (203.106.6.189) 298.157 ms 58.27.103.126 (58.27.103.126) 303.575 ms
15 58.27.103.77 (58.27.103.77) 290.461 ms 58.27.103.33 (58.27.103.33) 291.152 ms 290.416 ms
16 58.27.103.2 (58.27.103.2) 290.723 ms 58.27.103.22 (58.27.103.22) 290.679 ms 289.387 ms
17 * * *
18 * * *
19 * * *
20 * * *

You'll get the international link provider's name on the bold text above. Write them an email saying you're considering to put a lawsuit against them or insist that they have to take full responsibility of it (it's nothing wrong for doing that) because TMNET said browsing to international site isn't TMNET's responsibilities and it's in their policy. Then, whoever the international link provider is, will try their best to investigate and prove it to you who's problems is that. Get what i mean?

Although this is an ugly way of doing things, but this is the most effective method when no other options we can choose. This is the thing i do not wanna do nor encourage anybody to do it as verifying the network and issues cost money and it's not fair to the other parties.

The good thing about this method is, do you think these huge MNC will still deal with TMNET (shall TMNET refuse to change the policy while on the other ends streamyx users keep sending them emails on and off)?

This isn't a dirty tricks, but lack of alternatives, this is still a workable method. And shall only be used when you got nothing left to choose from.

This post has been edited by webdesignempire: May 10 2009, 02:35 PM

You must understand. TM does not owe us any explanations. Or they will give some irrelevant explanations. Because, what you going to do to them? They are not going to lose their job if they don't explain. They will do what they want. When users have no other choices, all the more reason they don't have to explain anything. If users have a choice, even if they leave, they will just sign on new users. When a corporation becomes very large, their attention to their customer base becomes less.

They are not going to be bothered about some users making complaints to them when the complaints should be directed at their own ISPs. They are not going to terminate inter-connect agreements which is part of their revenue.

TM is responsible for the international link that they use for internet connectivity. If there is a circuit fault in their links, they have to report it to the team who is responsible to maintain the links. If a fault occurs somewhere along the link, eg near China, TM has to co-ordinate with the team responsible for that link segment to get it fixed. TM is responsible to have sufficient bandwidth to cater to its users needs.

Some time back, I too have contacted a technical person at a data center in US to ask about slow access. After some testing, it was concluded that the problem is with TM's connectivity with their international counterpart via the international link, most likely on TM's side. At that time, the international counterpart's network did not show any latency.

mylinear,

Exactly, that's the reports we need to shot it to the authorities to deny the term "international-link isn't TMNET's responsibilities" and have them fix the problems on their side rather than push everything to others. That's already serve the purpose here, you see.

I'm not sure others, but my concept is simple. If the problems happen to be in the TMNET's backyard, by all mean they have to solve it. So, to me, the location of the root cause is important as it represents who should responsible to solve it.

As far as i've noticed, it seems TMNET is covering up those section (trace route) and making the troubleshooting even harder. As a user and a member of the web industry, i hate it when someone (TMNET) is pushing me towards the wall. In fact, they had already used up my patient. They are able to keep quiet because no ones really bent it and get them talking and fulfill what they suppose to be fulfilled.

My stand point is firm whereby I won't go beyond the limits. The worst is, if the authorities had already made known to the situation and decided to do nothing. i'm fine with that. At least, i tried my best to help to work out a solution. And at least i know what is the next step should i proceed with.

A big white killer shark has full capabilities and strength when it's in the deep water, not the shallow water. So, for what i personally intended to achieve in my life, if this is not my ground, other industries or places may be mine. As simple as that.

Regarding the TM international bandwidth capacity, this is what they claimed



source

I'm not sure it's the author who doesn't understand these simple terms such as bits and bytes or otherwise. But I believe that the article is referring to bits rather than bytes

China ping >1000ms. does tmnut increase their backbone link to china??

use Jaring proxy. browse very fast. Who fault ?

This post has been edited by yangxi: May 10 2009, 06:55 PM


Attached thumbnail(s)

Agreed, competition helps in improving the service and without it then customer's level of satisfaction is at their disposal. Plus, I think this discussion is just another publicity stunt for them to make some sort of apology and will improve their service (which they won't) and advertise their so called "best effort" service.

Its been so many years till they've open their market and without any formidable opponents to hold them back, the service quality is like and still ________ (you know).

PS: They can block your trace routing, change their policy at their whim and grab any multi-billion contract they want (HSBB), what makes you think a minor discussion is going to do? POINTLESS

This post has been edited by ahpek26: May 10 2009, 07:08 PM

At last.... reasoned, well structered and documented arguments regarding the quality of service from TM. Keep it up guys and I wish you well.

I have tried myself and got nowhere (not even responses) by complaining to the PM's office the government complaint website and laughed myself silly at the 'mission' statements proudly displayed by your government regarding communications. Any so called democratic government that has the wherewithal for its its people to communicate but then refuses to respond or acknowledge is NOT a democratic government.

If you do get to meet with the powers that be, one question that needs to be answered is the MCMC's lack of monitoring and their audit reports with regard to legislated quality of service from ISP's.

There is no harm trying. But one should not lose sight of reality. TM is fully aware of Streamyx problems. They do not need to have a meeting with users to find out about it.

Reality is that these top-level people are not going to say, "Oh, we didn't know about this. Let me make a call and get my people to fix it. All will be ok in 24 hours.".

The fact is, if they are aware of such a pending meeting and the topic of the meeting, shouldn't they already inform their downlines to investigate and fix these problems (assuming they didn't know)? The fact is, why schedule a meeting towards end of the month when they have been told (hence the meeting) about Streamyx problems currently going on for the past few months?

Instead, they will do a presentation outlining what they have done for the past 6-12 months with regards to maintenance and upgrade. Then what they plan to do in the next 6-12 months. And how services will be much better in time to come . See my previous posts.

This will show MCMC that they are doing everything they can. Then a press release to the media about it.

But no harm trying. Just be realistic.

Rest assured that all the important people in the MCMC already know how horrible TM is. Unfortunately, the decision whether or not to do anything isn't in their hands. The reason why nothing can be done is the same as why the last mile is still "owned" by TM up till today. The majority of the "old-school" internet community has been fighting to open the last mile since the TM HiS days which was shortly after TM "claimed ownership" of the last mile.

I thought I read somewhere (probably on this forum) that TM had 150Gbps. But the above article states 100Mbps by end 2008, which also cannot be verified because later it says AAG will be up by Apr 2009, which was last month. It says an additional 30Gbps this year, but I read somewhere that AAG would provide 60Gbps extra. The numbers all conflict.

better off clone the Western country server and put here.. the sea cable is only for server to server synchronization. anyone ever think of that? or its not practical?

The last-mile became the lost-mile a long time ago. I believe in those days , one of the arguments was that the last mile was commissioned by then JTM which was government department. Hence the cost of the infrastructure was paid by tax-payers. Correct me if I am wrong.

Yeah man... i got what you mean here. I don't really hope for something similar and "huge" that happening in US to be happening here. Frankly, i didn't even thought about it. Whether or not they have already knew it, i bet they did. I just don't wanna make assumptions, i wanna see it with my own eyes how they act towards it. I used to meet people around, even though i can't tell what's in their mind 100%, but at least what are the chances toward certain things that i'm hoping to achieve which on this context, stable broadband, nothing i hope to get more than that.

I will not jump to a judgment that easily, at least not without i reach a dead end. However, once i did made a judgment, it is final and it's kinda impossible for it to change.

Same, we'll see what's next.

About jong52yuara's suggestion, i don't think TMNET will implement it. It's call mirror or something like caching server stuff like that.

Made a complaint recently to TM regarding the slow international connection.

Think it's not right to post the CSO's email reply in verbatim, so I'll just list out the points.


- They are aware of the situation and they will always to their level best to provide the best service.

- International link performance is subject to inter-ISP connectivity.

- Very unlikely that any ISP can guarantee end-to-end performance to international sites

- They recognise their customer base has increased and are making continuous efforts to upgrade their infrastructure

- Their role is providing Internet connectivity and access but they are unable to guarantee delivery of contents and performance of the host which is not within their domain.

- Their international traffic management capability is designed to cater for all customers' requirements to ensure they have optimal experience using the Internet, and this is part of their network performance policy.



I'm very sure that they haven't catered for my requirements, and I have been having a sub-optimal experience using the Internet.

This is the point we brought up repeatedly without getting anywhere. There was little to no discussion involved in the deciding of who the last mile was going to go to. From a neutral perspective at the time, if the last mile was to be awarded to any ISP... it should have gone to Jaring/MIMOS who were MUCH bigger than TM at the time; not to mention they did a hell of a lot more in terms of advancing the state of the Internet in Malaysia back then (TM pretty much just sat around on their asses doing nothing; looks like they are exactly the same now as they were back then). The different was that a number of people in high up places had large slices of the TM pie... and that's exactly the same as it is now.

TM seems to have an awfully small profit margin if you look at their annual financial reports given that they have almost 100% monopoly... ever wondered why? Here's a hint: it has nothing to do with improving infrastructure.

One point to note is that customer internet behavior has changed, most subscribers will feel that they are paying for dedicated leased line and demand for heavy download and torrent at full speed, anything lower than the subscribed speed is considered as slow connection.

I do not believe TM can change to become a charity company to provide dedicated leased line for everyone to perform torrenting and P2P.

I guess the word "most" isn't really suitable here. Have you ever spend 4 - 5 hours downloading a batch of email that less than 1MB? I guess those who's heavy p2p downloaders knows what they're into, video? graphic? anime? copyright material? free material? They know it all.

I do not wanna comment on the P2P stuff. The serious thing is, nobody will nor can accept downloading a few text based emails for hours. Right? And that happened to me and some other customers before i made noise to streamyx, MCMC and PMO's Complaint Bureau.

Furthermore, i do not want TMNET to be a charitable organization or providing 8 or 12 mbps, all i hope TMNET can be is to provide stable and reliable broadband services, that's all.

This post has been edited by webdesignempire: May 11 2009, 01:22 AM

MIMOS/Jaring were responsible to spearhead internet usage and growth in Malaysia. I believe they did a good job and would have continued to do so if their hands were not tied with an unfair playing field. They had a loyal following of users from the early days. Even now, it appears they do a much better job with all the limitations than TM does with all the resource at their disposal.

MIMOS/Jaring has grown from dialup to wired broadband and also wireless. VoIP etc. But I guess they are not big enough to cater for all. At one time they were supposed to tie up with Astro for internet service via Astro satellite connection. That project did not materialise in the end.

Maybe personal infrastructures are being improved...?

I agree partially. Personally I don't use torrent or P2P, but when at times speeds are not even 30% of the subscribed speed, it's hardly acceptable.

I don't need TM's charity, what I need is a broadband service which is stable and reliable and lives up to reasonable expectations.

Tell me then, with such information like:

Streamyx Combo 1Mbps
(RM110 per month)
- Require a fast speed so that can view online video streaming and use internet webcam.
- Can do faster download and upload via website, ftp and other direct download.

Streamyx Combo 2Mbps
(RM140 per month)
- Require super fast internet speed.
- Always use online video / audio streaming
- For faster download. E.g. movie files.
- Online gaming

Streamyx Combo 4Mbps
(RM160 per month)
- Require extremely fast internet speed.
- For online gaming and large file download / upload.

http://202.71.97.48/streamyx_combo/packages_recommender.asp

What kind of service should one expect then?

If one subscribes to the 2Mbps service and does not get super fast internet speed, and is unable to stream video/audio always, or if one subscribes to the 4Mbps service, requiring extremely fast internet speed, wants to play online games and download/upload large files, but is unable to do so because of slow speeds, is the user not entitled to complain because the user did not subscribe to a leased line?

Do be reasonable.