I have been interviewing with this big company (MNC) - already pass 3 stages of interview with hiring manager, head of department and now final stage with HR.

Hiring manager and head of department all liked me a lot but HR now is refusing to proceed with my application without my pay slip.

I just kept telling them to pay me as per the value of the job - they said they cant do that, its against their process.

Can only proceed with pay slip.

I ended by not giving it - and of course, I lost the job opportunity.

Has anyone else been in this situation?

Why are you so against sharing your pay slip ?

Just curious ? I was previously in a MNC, then moved to a contract job with a China company and finally now in another Malaysian based MNC .

I had no qualms giving them my pay slip and asking them to give me an increment or fly kite.

I have always been upfront with the HR and I got the pay that I was expecting without much negotiations,

did you lie about your pay?

When you buy a Sony TV - does Sony tell you the cost of making the TV or the specifications of the TV?

I have shown them all my qualifications, my certifications and my references.

Revealing pay slip seems like a fail in negotiation skills.

This post has been edited by vanbrah: Nov 5 2018, 11:40 AM

Didn't lie, didn't tell also.

The HR is only asking for your previous salary proof..

If you not lying about your previous salary, why you worried about?

I didn't lie, I didn't even tell.

Why do they need my previous salary and base my pay off it? Is my job the exact same?

If you are requesting for more than what they commonly pay, they will need some kind of internal approval .

I have gone through that many times, this is more we normally pay our senior managers. then the negotiation starts.

If you are truly as qualified, what's the big deal in throwing in your pay slip .. its in your favour, not theirs.

Unless, you aren't getting paid as well as you made your resume out to be . It happens, but that's life .

Which is why I didn't request a number.

I kept telling them - just pay me the market rate for the role.

I am paid relatively well currently - but throwing my pay slip only stops my growth (20-30% increment max)

Why limit yourself? Let them decide what they should pay you.

sorry about that.

if the company is not the one that you really2 liked and desperately want to work there, then you can proceed and find another company

it is your right whether you want to give your pay slip or not.

but have to bare the consequenceslah..

This post has been edited by abdz: Nov 5 2018, 11:48 AM

Why need pay slip? EPF statement also can roughly calculate your last drawn salary.

They don't have my epf info yet what. Now only interview stages.

Some company will only offers x percent increment from your previous salary. Then once confirmed, they'll offer x percent increment again. Said its company procedure.

Just give your pay slip first if you really wanted the job. Perform really, really well in your probation, then negotiate more with proof of what have you achieved.

The company you applied also like terbalik their interview process? Usually interview with HR first, then hiring manager, then final is interview with HOD. When they wanted to offer you only then will negotiate with HR again, no?

This post has been edited by kidrawk: Nov 5 2018, 11:56 AM

Something don't add up here......when u go into interview, u did not have a faint idea what would be your expected salary that u would accept? And, interviewer did not ask you what is your expected salary for them to benchmark whether that is within their budget?

Your statement, why limit yourself, which mean, it can work both way, they might offer u something lower than your current one.

I don't see any issue providing them the payslip when they request, but, when they decide to give me 20-30% increment max, rather than what I asking or agreed upon, then, I would politely decline as they not paying what the market rate, but, trying to "low-balled" me.

Unless you are not being honest with what you get paid now, therefore, u reluctant to provide them the payslip.

Interview you can talk till the sky. A good actor can convince interviewer he can fly. Pay slip will roughly reflect what you current company think you worth, which is another reference for how much they should pay you or even should they hire you if your salary is much lower than market rate.

Nah, doesn't work in big companies.

HR can not offer ad hoc increment during middle of the year, they are bounded by increment policies and timing.

Even if you perform really well - they can only increase as per their range for top performers (which is limited once again)

Anything more than their standard increment, have to go up to VP level.

Have you given your payslip and got anything more than a 20-30% increment?

I haven't - I did offer my payslip early in my career.

Anyone can talk - true.

Which is why I have listed in detail all my accomplishments, certifications, achievements and references in my CURRENT company for them to verify my accomplishments.

Shouldn't pay be judged based on performance rather then just blankly on salary?

And why does my previous salary matter for a new job, new role, new environment? I should be paid as per value of new job.

sounds like this is the first time u're changing job

4th time - second time not showing pay slip.

Hmm.. the company I referred to IS a big company. Based on my experiences, regardless of timing once you confirmed, you'll get an increment.. be it big or small company. Maybe I got lucky?

By the way, it just a payslip. As long as they don't offer lower than my previous pay, I don't see any problem with it. Unless, like everybody else here said, you lied about your previous salary. If they say like what I posted earlier, just ask them lah if after confirmation will get increment or not.

Wanted to stay at previous company with previous pay, no need to show your payslip.
Wanted to work at new place with slightly better pay, show your payslip. Simple.

all of ur previous companies are MNCs?

Yes - Big global MNCs.

I do the same thing as you. Different company dff culture.

We need more people to do this. HR guy was saying that every other candidate gave the payslip.

As matter of fact, yes, I do.

My view of salary negotiation is I myself and company come into conclusion what is the "fair" compensation for my experience and skills, regardless of what is my previous pay. So, if either party do not come into such agreement, I would politely decline the offer.

If you goes into the negotiation with the above said mindset, unless you inflated your last drawn salary, then, u got nothing to lose to demand whatever you think you deserve.

If they just offered u 20-30% increment, you can just walk away, declining the offer, nothing to lose. But, if they agree to pay what you expected, you got the job. But, now, by not providing your last drawn salary evidence, u totally blew away the opportunity. Are you telling me that you more than happy to accept current salary which is lower than your "expected min" 20-30% increase?

In my current company I am doing well and all settled, I have built a good name with the management here.

For 20-30% increment, I have to go to a totally new place (smaller company than my current company actually), work hard and build my name all over again - it’s not worth it for me.

then why did u applied elsewhere? if it's just money, surely you could have negotiated with your management, shouldn't be a problem with your good name is it?

deep down inside u must have wanted something that your current co couldn't give

That's is what you perceived 20-30% increment. But, since you did not agree to provide your current payslip, and they decided to not offer you, you just lost the opportunity to find out.

It work both way, it might be true that they would just offer 20-30%, then, you can just politely declined, cited that the 20-30% not worth the risk you would need to take, or they might offered you something within your expectation.

The moral of the story, you lost the opportunity to know the outcome.

I was just “looking out” for any possibility of great offers in the market.

Being happy in one company doesn’t mean I stop looking out.

Many people on LYN act as if the company has all the power and the potential employee doesn't. I think this is a result of a feudal way of thinking and the Power Distance issue (people accept and don't question authority).

I completely support what @vanbrah did. From my point of view, if the company is so rigid and inflexible now, what other processes are they going to follow blindly and not willing to relook into? That's not the type of company I want to work for.

Please post your experiences on glassdoor, payscale etc. not just on LYN

if u r happy but you still look out, then good luck to your future employers and to you.

don't get me wrong, everyone lives with the choices they make, i hope things will work out for you in the end

True story from my side. I been to this interview recently, i provided my pay slip too. When the offer came, it was about 20% increment. However, i bargain to the extend of 80% increment. It does takes sometime to nego to this figure.

My opinion is that you have nothing to lose by providing your current payslip. Now you walk away an opportunity without knowing what they going to offer you. They can offer whatever figure to you, if you happy, just take it else just walk away.

Malaysia law state that HR cannot simply request for your personal information unless you are willing to sign the PDPA form. Most company in Malaysia make it a mandatory SOP to include this provision in before HR even process your job application. Hence, it’s a norm in Malaysia to request for pay slip which is also one of the most reliable document to prove your background.

The law prohibiting payslip is still a new trend. In US, only a few states legalize this such as New York. Some large companies adopt this such as Amazon who ask the HR not to request for payslip. Why this is a trend then? Companies such as Amazon know they are the market leader in their field and they can match almost any company pay. Same thing if you are applying to very large corporations or leading firms. Some have fixed pay grade scale so they don’t even care how much you earn as it’s all fixed range.

I am just curious on why you don’t reject only after knowing the final offer? It may / may not affect the offer package. Just giving away a piece of information may not be heavily detrimental to your bargaining power. It’s like playing chess, everybody hates to lose their queen but it does not mean the game is over. Furthermore, if you are a senior management or a director of a PLC in Malaysia, your salary is public disclosure anyway.

If you want to play chess with them, you have to understand the battlefield too. If you are applying to them, it means you are subject to their SOP. Then you rigged it to your favor by impressing the management of your creds. If the management like you enough, they can change HR SOP. Yes, that’s the inconvenient truth. Management can bypass the max 30% max if they really like you. It’s just most management are indifferent and nonchalant unless the candidate is really impressive. You can pick up the hint during interview. Technically it depends on the corporation also. Some HR are more powerful than the other counterpart. I am not sure which rank you are right now but for higher management position, normally the 30% max rule rarely comes in. The SOP is designed so HR don’t simply match the candidate asking price. The higher the level, the more flexible the arrangement is. It will also have a caveat for management to exceed the limit if they justify.

Yes, most of the time

Honestly, I think this mindset is wrong.

You are right in the sense that they shouldn't pay you 20 - 30% increment to go to a new environment.

But exactly, that's why I said the pay slip is in your favour not theirs .

I have negotiated for way higher than 20 - 30%

Willing buyer, willing seller. If they value my knowledge and experience, they pay me my asking price. (within reason of course, know your worth, don't be arrogant)

Thats my 2 cents.

double post

This post has been edited by omnimech: Nov 5 2018, 02:15 PM

I didn’t know HR had the power to reject me after hiring manager and HOD has approved.

How did you nego from 20% to 80%? Give some tips.

It's standard HR SOP best practice. Big companies especially MNC will practice this. EVERYTHING is to be documented with black and white. The pay slip is a document to justify your pay to directors and stakeholders, no matter if they increase or decrease or pay same with market rate or whatever. It's black and white documentation and procedures. You want to work in big company and MNC, you got to follow procedure. Even CEO and MDs need to follow procedure. No exceptions.

This post has been edited by Furfur: Nov 5 2018, 02:27 PM

Fishy with who?

Hiring someone is not as simple as buying tv bruh. Consumer buy tv with 1 time payment. Hiring someone have many factors to consider and everything is subjective. Hence the need for black and white and paper trail. If everything can just go verbal and no procedure, we will have a lot of 1MDB problems. HR and hiring procedures is created for a reason

Ridiculous way of justifying someone’s worth.

They have a salary budget - they should stick to that.

I am same like you. I am comfortable at my current company. Just want to go out test market. Just stand firm and be confident about the expected salary / figure.

Most people in Malaysia have the employer is “God” mentality.

This same people take it easy once they enter the job, and whine when they get fired.

I choose to be paid based on my skills, and will gladly accept being fired if my skills are not required anymore. Willing buyer, willing seller.

This post has been edited by vanbrah: Nov 5 2018, 02:38 PM

It’s the same concept in any negotiation.

Your car is a monthly payment item - does Honda tell you the cost of manufacturing the car?

Honda will just provide the specs of the car and their price - you take it or leave it.

They are big corporations because of standard procedures. Even if HR and hiring manager want to help you justify your worth to stakeholders, they need black & white documents as proof. They answer to a line of bosses, not just one person. They can't just use verbal, they need documents. Again as i mentioned hiring someone is different from buying item. even company buy items also need black and white SOP

This post has been edited by Furfur: Nov 5 2018, 02:45 PM

To put simple, you want to join an organisation, you follow their rules and SOP. You don't like rules and SOP, then don't join. That's all

some HR got no brainer, just follow procedure

Earlier this year applied at an Australian MNC in KL, working Aussie hours (some of you can guess which one). HR which sounds like local Malaysian called to ask why no current salary stated and I give this same reason, you should have your own budget.

Obviously HR is not very happy and end it. I moved on and found other job shortly after.

Later on, I noticed the company tried to stalk my online profile not sure if there are missed calls or not. I don't bother or remember anymore. Either they can't find suitable candidates, or the HR method backfires. Whatever.

Anyway, for good or bad, I have moved on to a new job.

similar concept, different shoes
if i don't know the price of candidate A when i have B, C, D,....
do i need to consider A? wait till X70 price officially announced then only do booking?

who is actually doing the shopping?

FYI, difference salary range may result in placing the future employee in different positions which may mean different benefits package
in car terms maybe something like sports kit, bigger rims, higher cc, 4WD etc

It's either they follow procedure which their directors set or don't follow have a chance to get fired (and maybe sued of misconduct). Which option do you think they'll choose?

you should ask to talk to the hiring manager and also the hr boss
if they cannot respect privacy, dont bother work for this company.
yeah i walked off before.

should play along...HR also makan gaji maa... HR dept and other dept have different criteria to fulfill especially opex budget.... Even a GM want to hire you, the HR can say that you dont fulfill their requirement...if the GM fight them, later HR advice top management like VP, CEO to expelled that GM...

Nowadays big company also want to downsize...even small company dont earn a lot...

U should start think make ur on business..might be a vendor to your current company...Since you are really talented and experience

I'm 100% with you TS... for me I will give my pay slip after my expected salary is met and that time I know this is just purely on documentation purposed.



Handling/reveal your salary first mean you already lost the negotiating battle..

I admire TS for his stand.

As the hiring manager i dont really bother about the payslip but rather what he can bring to the table. The payslip is something HR ask as part of their due diligence

Most HR would already have access to research on market pay and have some estimates for a suitable amount for the candidate. if the candidate is as good as they themselves claim with so many support and reference from the management then by right he or she should be having a commensurate amount of pay and position. If the payslip shows otherwise there could other factors that was not accounted for ( e.g. company size too small cant pay that kind of salary, issues with direct supervisor but support by other line managers, etc) That need to be delve further if the gap between the pay and what is claimed is high.

In an ideal world, everyone would be paid as per their skills and value.

What I have noticed as a manager for my team - the lowest paid are the best engineers, they were focused on their work, understood the technology due to years of experiences in the company.

You know who were the worst engineers? The highest paid in the group - mostly job jumpers who spoke well but rarely acquired any substantial skills.

The difference in pay between the best and worst engineers were not by their skills - but by their last drawn salary from previous companies.

Stay poor and comply to this rule of past salary for your next next job - I choose not to fall for it.

there are many reasons they need your pay slips.

1st of all, calculate your PCB.
2nd, reference check (very important).
3rd, company policy. they might need to seek for approval to pay some1 x2 or x3 of their previous salary.

end of the day, take it or leave it. Every Company has their policies. I have gone to interview with 1 listed MNC as well, they even do a background check on my CTOS, SSM, directorship in other Company. Because at certain lvl, you need to be very 'clean' to them. i have heard a lot of bad stories on sh!t hit the fan when the HR did not do a reference check or back ground check.

bro....that is not the right move...
u shld give them your payslip and justify you worth that much...
since u insisted by not giving..it somehow discredit your reputation...
if they cant pay what you are asking and you think u worth the job market..then is their prob..now is your prob instead

dont agree with the new company's requirements? don't join. enuf said.

Doesn't that last line contradict your earlier observation?
According to you the highest paid group "fell for it" and jumped multiple times, getting their increment each time
Those who "didn't fall for it" refused to provide their payslips, didn't get a new job and stayed on with their existing pay

I'm a bit confused here:
1. You're well paid currently.
2. You are doing well in your current company and have built good relationship and good name in management. Good career prospect.
3. You requested the company to offer you based on market rate, but they requested you to provide current pay info, which you rejected.
4. And you also mentioned those well paid staff in your company, are those do not really perform.

So you're under-well-paid now with good name & relationship with management in your current company?

Nah, willingness to reveal salary was not a factor here.

Being judged by last salary earned was the factor here.

Since you are happy in current company, and open to right opportunity.
If i were you, i will give whatever they want, and tell them my expected salary (put more than 20-30%).
If they die die want to offer based on last drawn salary which is not my expected salary, i will just reject the offer.

Edited typo.

This post has been edited by Frank3: Nov 5 2018, 05:54 PM

I am paid reasonable - I won’t say the highest in the market, but fair salary for my skills.

My observation was from my down lines - between job hoppers and those that stay loyal in the company.

Yes seems like the best approach in current Malaysian market.

Not only Malaysian, it applies to Singapore also
I strongly support that "keeping yourself open" even you are happy what you are doing now.

This approach by HR will benefit job hoppers - hence I recommend people to take advantage of the system. Show your payslip but jump after a year, for your yearly 20% hike.

I agree with not showing pay slip. But I would still show my card to see what do they have

If they offer 20% or less (after seeing your pay slip/ offer based on your current). I would turn them down

One forumer mentioned, u missed to see what they have to offer

Alot case even myself, HR told me can only offer max 20% based on my last drawn salary, instead of requested 25%.

And yes, some case HR will advice the hiring manager that this candidate is expensive and his expected is higher than usual 20%. Hiring manager may think twice and find other cheaper employee

TS Sorry to hear of this company requesting you to show your payslip.

Our company for one, does not request any prospective employee to show their last payslip. In fact in our application form, this question is not even asked, among other personal questions like race and religion.

It is your right not to show them your past payslip, but it is also the company's right to decline you if you do not meet their request.

Anyway, all the best to you.

well I don't fully agree with salary slip.. if they offer is not attractive because u show the pay slip... then just reject it... simple..

seems like company want to lowball

TS, you did great -- stand your ground.

Potential employer has no right to insist on payslip.

Typically the stand adopted by a useless HR department.

Spot ON!

I am surprised that this trivial topic drags beyond 1 page. Honesty and transparency are the way to go with HR negotiation especially MNC. I have no problem even telling them there was no bonus besides monthly pay. Because all these can be cross-checked against EPF statements and EA form.

No matter how desperate the hiring manager or HOD likes you, the final gate is HR. HR has the veto power by simply taking any negative screening findings to KO you.

Well said! If the candidate's pay is way above the market median then it will become hiring manager nightmare in coming performance appraisal. It also will cause imbalanced/unfair feeling among team members. Team members like to share their salary although this is strictly prohibited in written company policy. For big picture sake, it is better to skip this candidate.

Just a simple question for HR to ponder:
Given the example that my last drawn salary was SGD 10k per month. If I come back to work in Malaysia and being asked the payslip, should I request at least RM 30k to get the equivalent pay (not even increment of 1% for me) from my last drawn salary?

This post has been edited by abc2005: Nov 6 2018, 10:22 AM

Rubbish. Showing your salary is not honesty and transparency. Go ask your car market, what is the cost of making the car? Why can’t they tell? Oh they not honest is it??

As a hiring manager, I am saying. Only the hiring manager knows the value of a good candidate to the Corporation. HR job is just to rubber stamp the approval if candidate fits the range of budget allowed.

This happens more often than you think.

In my team, the range between the lowest and highest paying employee is RM10K - all doing the same job.

Show your payslip and ask standard HR 20-30% increment.

About 36-39k by HR logic lol

My HR will reply,

Given that a Toyota is SGD100K in Sg, would you pay RM300K for the same Toyota in M?

This post has been edited by ipohmali70: Nov 6 2018, 10:30 AM

That's the fallacy of asking for payslip. It won't work all the time in HR favour lol.
Anyway most of the companies in the world are practicing this unhealthy SOP. It's give and take situation but we always have choices to take or leave it.

And my experience is that other than the top posts of VP/GM/C-level who happened to stay longer in a company, most of the talented and capable workhorses (so-called the cogs in the wheel) will jump frequently to get to their intended salary target, with or without payslip-sharing to HR.

It's open secret that companies tend to have dual standards for different level of staff. As mentioned earlier in this thread, the higher you are, the more flexible your negotiation is. The sad truth is that there are even different sets of rules for foreign expats and local team.

That's why the payslip isn't relevant in getting the best candidates. Just stick to the budget. The candidate will understand about the pay cut.

Don't tell us, tell HR. Then let us know the results.

Now normally all MNC in penang will need your previous payslip.

HR will use this to nego with you on $. But since your hiring manager keen to hire you, you can stand firm your title with requested/expected $...

FYI i jump quite often and every jump with 30 to 40%

This post has been edited by Ree73: Nov 6 2018, 11:09 AM

Telling the HR won't work. They are just doing their jobs according to the policies.
Telling the big boss or C-level might work, provided they can vouch for us.

Unfortunately, most candidates won't have this leverage. So the most viable way would be to constantly looking out to test the market, regardless of payslip, which is what most of the employees are doing.

So the deduction I can find from what I see - jump your way to the top, not work your way to the top, if this is what the current market wants.

Exactly, with this current HR policy, working hard and building your skills doesn’t work well.

Just sit in one job for a year, and jump at year end.

Keep doing that as HR will only be looking at your payslip as a sign of your worth.

Every company wants their employees to work their way to the top, and not to jump to the top.

Employment candidates who job hop frequently are not considered for employment at all. Totally no loyalty there. Not worth the money for investment.

Loyalty is another issue for another day. But since the job market values payslips and skillsets, loyalty won't be a factor in consideration.

By the way, loyalty scheme won't work in today's market trend, especially those in tech sectors.

Another fine example about loyalty bXXXsXXt that most HR touted would be about VSS/MSS/FSS(forced separation scheme) within a company. What can loyalty do in this situation? I can be a loyal staff that spent 10 years and yet got dismissed because I don't fit in the cmpany's grand scheme.

It works both ways.

u give. but the pay u want exceed the 20% increment from your current. they only can give 15-20%. what will u do?

take or reject?

if u reject, how many companies out there can u reject? at one point, u will just accept.

Job market says otherwise.

You can have the skills to pass the hiring manager, but HR will only judge you by your payslip - job hopping skills to continuously increase your salary will help then.

kerana ego...tak dapat kerja kesian

actually its just their procedure la, cos they need to ensure u r not lying for ur previous salary

Kesian wanna tunjuk macho backfire now come here rant.

You have a right not to show your payslip. They also have the right not to offer you a role.

If you are that good, they will bend over backwards to hire you. If you get stunted because of a payslip, you are not that good of a talent.

that's the only best way. or get high increment in your company.

+1

HR is there to safe guard the company interest and also as independent reviewer...... Hiring managers like you is another story while HR is to ensure everyone is comply to company's policies and minimize the pay gap..... if you and the hiring boss pakat; you expecting HR just to give whatever amount u asking for?

let's say u mentioned in your CV that expectation salary is RM10K while your prev job salary was RM15K.... dont you think HR will be interested to find out why someone willing to lower their salary so much/desperate for the job? or in another word, if your prev salary is RM5k and suddenly u think u worth RM10K of course HR will ask what making u think u work it.... if your prev salary is RM10K and u still asking for RM10k now; most likely u will not work long in the company too....

also pay slip will tell whether u really work for company A and when is the last drawn salary too to indicate how long u have left prev job... if u r honest with the info u submitted in job application... if ur last pay slip was dated dec 2017 and u still applying jobs now.... won't HR curious what is happening between? maybe u landed in jail, etc....

This post has been edited by sukhoi35mk: Nov 6 2018, 02:15 PM