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 LYN Christian Fellowship Thread Ver 16, Welcome Christians, Love is the greatest

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TSunknown warrior
post Nov 25 2022, 08:17 AM, updated 3y ago

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Welcome Fellow Christians.

We are here to fellowship, to reach out, to encourage, to strengthen one another and to be a Witness unto this lost world of the goodness and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.
FAQ
Few simple RULES to follow in our fellowship thread.

1. No flaming/troll post please. Let's keep this fellowship thread clean, positive and encouraging, as the purpose is more for believers of Christ.
2. Do not argue in hostility please. People of other Faith are welcome to ask and enquire genuine questions or out of curiosity about Christianity.
3. What's discussed in here, stays in here.
4. Do not spark an argument or to cause excessive argument, both are not allowed, your post will be deleted and report to Admin of Forum
5. Do not judge any Christians in here, do not insult them or threatened them with hell or perdition or whatever along that line.


Previous Threads
V15
V15
V14
V14
v13
v13
v12
v12
V11
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3855898
V10
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3599570
V09
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3485130
V08
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3393815
V07
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=3197598
V06
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=ST&f...&t=2621686&st=0
V05
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1758395
V04
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/801729
Good links to share:
http://www.opensong.org/
http://www.guitar4christ.com
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/
a database of chords and lyrics for christian songs.

GodTV
http://www.god.tv/

Good TV
http://www.goodtv.tv/
Online Bibles!
English Bible (with multi lingual): http://www.biblegateway.com/


Baptist sermon :
https://pbc.my/sermons-2/


Indonesian/Malay Bible: http://alkitab.otak.info/

Arabic Bible: http://www.arabicbible.com/bible/doc_bible.htm

Dear Christians, please do let us know about u, like denominations, which church u r from and where is ur church located. Oh, beside that, do let us know what position are u holding in ur church, as in.. hmm pianist ? choral singer ? or even Pastor.
LYN Christ Followers

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1) Salvation Bookstore - PJ SS2, Summit USJ
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3) Evangel - PJ SS2
4) MPH Bookstore
5) Canaanland Sdn Bhd: - http://www.canaanland.com.my/index.php?opt...&id=6&Itemid=12
6) Discovery House Publishers :https://dhdmalaysia.com/
TSunknown warrior
post Nov 25 2022, 08:18 AM

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QUOTE(Ruris @ Nov 25 2022, 08:12 AM)
Good to know you're still around and well.
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Yes I'm back, well and alive. Praise God.
TSunknown warrior
post Nov 25 2022, 08:44 AM

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The Blessings of Abraham is yours.

Galatians 3:29 (NIV) - If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Morning guys, I post this verse today to let you know, you can have access to all of God's promise which he has given to patriarch Abraham. This is only a part of God's promise. The greater and greatest blessing is in Christ.

Why is this important? I want you to be equip with all the God has given you. I believe there are christians living depending on the system of this world.
The system of this world as we know it, belongs to the devil. If you have more faith in this world, it system to provide for you then on what God offers, I hope you can repent from this.

No Friends. Bible tells us...IF we belong to Christ, then we are Abraham seed. Whether we like it or not, believe it or not, this is the word of God, you are heirs of Abraham.

You can have access to this by prayer to God, stand on God's promise to provide for your living. If you study Abraham, he was very well provided for and all that he has was well protected.

We do not want the devil to devour our providence.

Meditate of this verse as we know living under an endemic life is a struggle for some but do remember your economy well being does not depend on this world, not in Egypt (type ref to world).

Your economic well being depends on the divine word of God. How can mere words in the Bible provide for you? Friend the word of God are not dead letter but is spirit and life and is God. (Read John 1:1, John 6:63)

John 1:1 (NIV) - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 6:63 (NV) - The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

Hence has the power to make changes for your life.

I close with Romans 1:16 (NIV) - For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

The word Salvation in this verse is not just refering to eternal life, more than that. It encompassed " welfare, prosperity, deliverance, preservation, salvation, safety". Think about it, meditate on it.

God Bless.

TSunknown warrior
post Nov 26 2022, 11:14 AM

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God works his miracle because you obey or because you believe?

Galatians 3:5 (NIV) - So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

Blessed day to all of you.

I'm not against teachings that tells that in order for God to work his miracles, you must be obedient. No I'm not, perhaps there is a place for that.

But I trust fully what Galatians 3:5 tells us. God works his miracles because of our believing or ie faith. There is a reason why Apostle Paul ask this contrasting question. It's no point to ask this contrast if the miracles of God work through both law and faith. There will be some who will disagree, I will not argue with that.

But again I will fully trust what the Bible tells me.

God works his miracles because purely of believing (faith).

Why?

Because this is the New Covenant. In conjunction with prior devotion, (talking about Abraham blessings) in verse 9, Bible tells us;

"So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith." Do you see that? ......Those who rely...depend on faith are blessed together with Abraham.

Hence you have access to Abraham's blessing. And verse 10, 11 & 12 makes the contrast very very clear.

"For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” The law is not based on faith....

Why do you want to put yourself under a curse by depending on your efforts of performance to God's Law? I hope this short devotion helps you to see clearly why faith is what activates God's miracles!

God Bless.

TSunknown warrior
post Nov 29 2022, 09:02 AM

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The Law is not based on faith

Galatians 3: 9-10 (NIV)
9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

Good day fellow believers of Christ.

Today's devotion will be short but very insightful if not deep. It's just 1 sentence for you to digest and meditate. (Sentence in bold)

As one who has received Christ, if you rely on faith, you are blessed along with Abraham (Man of faith) but if you rely on laws of God, you are under a curse.

Rely here means depend on. The whole context has to do with "dependency".

Rely on Faith = believing = blessed. (past tense, good as done deal)
Rely on Law = Performance = curse. (living an un-victorious life)

Which one you rather be in? For me, I rather put myself under the new covenant and be blessed, living by faith and not put confidence If I fully obey God I will be blessed. No. That is not the new covenant. No wonder there are confusion in the body of Christ...some may think I've done my level best to obey but why am I still not blessed? Think about it.

No friends, I repent (change my mind) knowing I will be blessed because I believe whole heartedly what God says and promised.

This is the Bible, the word of God.

I pray the Holy Spirit gives you the revelation to this.

God Bless.


This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Nov 29 2022, 09:03 AM
PlayPlayHa
post Nov 29 2022, 04:56 PM

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Hihi just trying to survey..
Any church using Discord as community channel?
TSunknown warrior
post Dec 1 2022, 09:52 AM

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What does it mean to finish by means of flesh?

Galatians 3:3 (NIV) - Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

Good day. There is just so much we can learn in the book of Galatians 3 itself. So much to unpack. Galatians 3 talks quite a bit on works of the flesh?

What is the works of the flesh? It's basically your own performance which you rely on, measured against God's law. Something which you use to justify yourself before God's holy standard whether you've failed or acted righteously.

In the natural it sounded right even for people who don't know God, doesn't it? So what is so wrong with it? We forgot, it is a form of self righteousness. Whatever that is of self is as good as filthy rags from The Lord's eye.

There is an error which some of us may have presumed. We think prior to accepting Christ, whatever works we do, cannot makes us righteous as it cannot wash our sins away (taint of sin). But after accepting Christ, we think just because our sins has been washed, now the works of our flesh is clean and can be justify before God.

Sorry but that is one big erroneous doctrine.

Friend. When we are saved by God, is it because of our works? so what makes you think you can finish the race by your works? The bible is clear. We receive salvation not because of a anything righteous we've done but BECAUSE of God's grace, because of God's mercy, because God loves us. It's all from God!

With all that being said; I pray now you understand verse 3 of Galatians 3.

Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

Let us avoid being fools. Live by faith, finished by faith. Your good works that you do, let it be nothing before your own eyes. You do it not to get saved but because you ARE saved.

God bless.





TSunknown warrior
post Dec 2 2022, 09:47 AM

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Justify by Faith, not your obedience.


Galatians 3:8 (NIV) - Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”
Galatians 3:24 (NIV) - So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.

Good day fellow believers.

The word "justify" means "to show or prove to be right".

Praise God! God has made it so simple, that we can be proved right by our faith in Christ Jesus. For the longest time, there are just too many preaching of the law, you need to obey to be right..you need to obey to be blessed.

But my Bible tells me under the new covenant, I'm made right or righteous by faith! God works his miracles because I believe!

Friend, do not let anyone define how you are made right or how God moves his power for you, let God's word define it for you.

Why is this important? The devils wants you to be made right by your performance or doings. Why? Because there he can get you! Do you hear me? He can use the law against you. Where you have fallen short. Even if you do more, the devil will accuse you that it's not enough. The devil is the accuser. The devil wants to stop you from receiving from God! He wants you destroyed by God's law. Do you hear me?

But if you are justify by faith, it's so hard for the devil to pull you down with condemnation and I believe God wanted it that way. If you can understand that you're saved by GRACE, the devil has nothing to accuse you with. Why?

Because Faith and Grace is something you cannot merit with. Meaning something you cannot earn. It's a free gift. Do you hear me friends? How can the devil attack what is given to you free? He cannot!

Do you want to know the secret of moving on especially when you've failed before Father God? If and when you have failed or sinned before God. Remind yourself of the TRUTH of the Bible.

It is by the obedience of one man, many are made righteous. (Romans 5:19) Not your obedience! My action (sinning or my obedience) doesn't merit me any righteousness. What I do, cannot count before God!
Quote Romans 4:15! However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness! (Digest and mediate the word "ungodly", what does it mean there? It simply means You and I! We ALL qualify!)

Believe that! There will be criticism of easy believism, ignore them. For me I rather believe God's word even if sounds too easy or too good to be true. Why? Because what is of God is supernatural. We have lived in the corrupted natural for far too long under the devil world system. We have been molded and deceived by the devil since the time of Adam and Eve.

If the Bible says we are justified by faith in Christ then that is the truth and nothing else matter!

God Bless!





TSunknown warrior
post Dec 8 2022, 10:35 AM

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Christ became cursed so that I don't have to

Galatians 3: 13 - 14 (NIV) Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Dear Believers,

This is a very powerful promise which you can claim for deliverance or protection whenever you're attacked by the devil. But do we understand what does redeemed from the curse of the law means?

Romans 3:9 (BSB) Tells us;
What then? Are we any better? Not at all. For we have already made the charge that Jews and Greeks alike are all under sin.

Galatians 3:22 (BSB) Tells us;
But the Scripture pronounces all things confined by sin, so that by faith in Jesus Christ the promise might be given to those who believe.

Scripture tells us, everyone is bound to disobedience (Romans 11:32). Everyone has fallen short of God's Standard. And what are the consequence of that? Answer is curse. Well you may argue that the OT Law is only for the Jews, hence curse shouldn't apply. However, Romans 3:9 and Galatians 3:22 tells us everyone is charged to sin! When you are charged to sin, there are consequences! Romans 2:12 also tells us, those who sin apart from OT law will also perish! The word perish in the Greek means destroyed. (Gentiles)

Nobody could escape the punishment of sin. The ultimate consequence of sin is 2nd death where you will be permanently torment in lake of fire. Then there is the consequences of sin which usually involves suffering of all kind while you're still alive in your body. These are signs of curses.

And I have a very good question.

What empowers sin? Do you know? You think it's the devil or your actions of sin? No. It's God's own Law! Read 1 Corinthians 15:56. That is why believers must learn to look to Christ instead of God's Law for justification for Righteousness and Salvation.

What am I trying to say at the end of the day?

We are all imperfect people even after being saved. There may be times the devil have entered in through open doorways or gateway legally because of our own flaws. What do we do when we realize this has happened?

Quote Galatians 3 verse 13 out loud! Quote it to the spiritual realm! Let your confession of this verse be heard in your prayer audibly! Envision yourself before the courts of heaven in legal battle with the enemy, stand on this verse!
It does not matter what are the gateways or how many are they! The Bible promise Christ became a curse for us and that all legal charge (READ ALL) has been cancelled! Read Colossians 2:13-14

God who is faithful, will confirm his word by his Holy Spirit to set you free.

I'm giving you here a spiritual weapon to fight your spiritual battle. I pray the Holy Spirit gives you revelation of today's devotion.

God Bless!


This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Dec 8 2022, 10:41 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Dec 9 2022, 10:11 AM

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The OT promises of God are still valid.

Galatians 3:17 (NIV) - What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise.

There is so much to exposit in the book of Galatians 3. I want to move on to other books but I felt lead to finish off all the revelations in there. Hope the readers will be patience.

The Lord has done away with the curse of the Law but not with the promises He promised to patriarch Abraham. It's clearly stated in the main verse of today's devotion.

Why is this even important? Many would have thought, having Jesus Christ, Salvation is enough. Of course it is enough but do you know what entails the promises? There are so many!

God's word tells us, we believers are destroyed for lack of knowledge. There are some circle of Christianity that no longer believes in miracles. They say it's up to God, If He will then it happens, otherwise it won't. Which is true but do you know God's word also tells us..you have not because you asked not? It depends on the one who prays and ask! (James 4:2-3) So it's not God who will provide according to God's request but yours!

You may argue the classic argument if God knows everything why can't He just gives?

Friend, when the Lord created Adam and Eve, He didn't create an automatic robotic world that does everything on it's own. That is rather an ignorant way of thinking. Study the Bible from genesis , you will realize, it's a partnership with Him in doing all things! Look at all the prophets, kings, all the people in the bible....every single time, God is involved with the person. It's a partnership, friend. Adam & Eve cause the lost of partnership but Christ restored that partnership! If I were you, knowing I'm restored to God, having access to all His promise, I will take pain to know all of them!

Abraham was well provided for! Bible did not shy to record he had all the lives tocks, silver and even gold, lands etc. Some erroneous teaching says to be holy is to be poor financially. Sorry but my bible never teaches that. God protected Abraham's wife even when he lied saying it was his sister. The Lord answered Abraham's prayer for healing upon Abimelech house. The Lord renewed Sarah's body to be beautiful looking even at an old age where it's impossible for a heathen King who go by his natural eyes to want someone unless that someone looks desirable ....physically. You may not like the word prosperity but what happened to Abraham was that He thrived! Why? Because God was with him in everything.

When God is with you, what is dead will come to life! And to quash ignorant mindset, no God isn't going to make everyone who believes to be billionaire. But God DO promise to provide! And I believe provide well, having more than enough so that you can bless others! I put in Abraham's recorded history of being provided richly to destroy the argument that God wants his people to be in poverty. And do have a repented mind, this is not about money. No.

It's about God who provides and answer prayers, dispensing miracles because we live in a fallen world where the devil rules with destruction. Our role here is to point people to Christ so that they can have answers, hope and Salvation.

Amen? God Bless.

TSunknown warrior
post Dec 10 2022, 10:20 AM

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The Law is not of faith

Galatians 3:12 (ESV) - But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.”

Good Day fellow Christians.

Today's main verse tells us ...The law is not of faith. Let's study the word "of"

In the Greek "Ek" which is "of" means "from, from out of".


To understanding, Let us use an analogy.

Jesus "of" Nazareth. What does "of" in this context means? It simply means Jesus grew up in Nazareth, the experience. People knew He grew up there and was active there.

Same as you can say John is from KL. So John is familiar with that place. John is connected with that place.

With that being said, the Law is not of faith would simply mean God's Law has nothing to do with Faith. In fact, they are in opposite of each other.

To understand better, one needs to understand the purpose of God's Law. Galatians 3:19 tells us, God's Law came in along side or added because of transgression (Sin). The phrase came in along side or added denotes it was not God's main agenda for his creation. It was something secondary and not of primary will of God.

Scripture tells us, The strength of Sin is God's Law. IE God's Law empower sin. (1 Corinthians 15:56)

Romans 4:14 -15 (BSB) For if those who live by the law are heirs, faith is useless and the promise is worthless, because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law, there is no transgression.

Read all these verses I've provided.

If God's Law empower sin and has bearing to make faith useless and God's promises worthless, in fact without the law, there is no transgression meaning sin is made powerless, why do you still want to approach unto God's Law?

I do not know to make this any more clearer. I do not know if there are churches still teaching God's Law as series to follow week after week, killing faith in result but I do pray God's Holy Spirit make this clear to you.

Don't look to God's Law any longer but look to Christ Jesus who can remove all the curse of the law from your life and gives you all the blessings you very much needed by GRACE.

Even apostle Paul calls the gospel, the Gospel of Grace! (Acts 20:24)

Divorce yourself from God's Law, get married to God's Grace! Everyday keep depending, relying on God's Grace!

God Bless

gashout
post Dec 10 2022, 10:38 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 10 2022, 10:20 AM)
The Law is not of faith

Galatians 3:12 (ESV) -  But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.”

Good Day fellow Christians.

Today's main verse tells us ...The law is not of faith. Let's study the word "of"

In the Greek  "Ek" which is "of" means "from, from out of".
To understanding, Let us use an analogy.

Jesus "of" Nazareth. What does "of" in this context means? It simply means Jesus grew up in Nazareth, the experience. People knew He grew up there and was active there.

Same as you can say John is from KL. So John is familiar with that place. John is connected with that place.

With that being said, the Law is not of faith would simply mean God's Law has nothing to do with Faith. In fact, they are in opposite of each other.

To understand better, one needs to understand the purpose of God's Law. Galatians 3:19 tells us, God's Law came in along side or added because of transgression (Sin). The phrase came in along side or added denotes it was not God's main agenda for his creation. It was something secondary and not of primary will of God.

Scripture tells us, The strength of Sin is God's Law. IE God's Law empower sin. (1 Corinthians 15:56)

Romans 4:14 -15 (BSB) For if those who live by the law are heirs, faith is useless and the promise is worthless, because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law, there is no transgression.

Read all these verses I've provided.

If God's Law empower sin and has bearing to make faith useless and God's promises worthless, in fact without the law, there is no transgression meaning sin is made powerless, why do you still want to approach unto God's Law?

I do not know to make this any more clearer. I do not know if there are churches still teaching God's Law as series to follow week after week, killing faith in result but I do pray God's Holy Spirit make this clear to you.

Don't look to God's Law any longer but look to Christ Jesus who can remove all the curse of the law from your life and gives you all the blessings you very much needed by GRACE.

Even apostle Paul calls the gospel, the Gospel of Grace! (Acts 20:24)

Divorce yourself from God's Law, get married to God's Grace! Everyday keep depending, relying on God's Grace!

God Bless

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Happy to see you're back!
TSunknown warrior
post Dec 10 2022, 10:44 AM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Dec 10 2022, 10:38 AM)
Happy to see you're back!
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wave.gif wave.gif wave.gif
TSunknown warrior
post Dec 18 2022, 11:52 AM

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The problem with Law Keeping

Galatians 3:10 (NIV) ............ “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

And I thought I've squeeze out every revelation there is in Galatians 3 yet there is always wonderful truth which the Holy Spirit can bring to you in same verses or books.

Before continuing, I need establish that there is nothing wrong with God's Law, it is a form of mirror that tells you the truth. If you see ugly or beautiful, that is what it is, after all it is God who gave the law. You cannot blame the mirror.
The mirror is unbending, it cannot flex or bend a little to help whatever weakness you have but the reverse, you are judge, condemned by it.

Yet do you know what is the trouble with "relying" On God's Law? Verse 10 helps us to understand.

Curse is everyone who does not continue to do EVERYTHING written in the Book of the Law. If you want to be justified, you need to fulfill everything. Not 1 or 3 or 9 laws but everything.

It's a laborious life to live. You have to keep on doing, doing, doing, if you think about it, it's nothing short of stressed life. But the saddest part is that, no matter how perfect or how good you are in fulfilling God's Law, you are not justified by it.

Isn't that just depressing if not sad? You do so much yet, God's Law does not justify you. And if you don't continue with your performance to every single one of it, you are cursed. Try digest this into your spirit, the problem of it.

Every believer still lives in a body that has the nature of flesh. Until we received our new body, there will be challenges, temptations and failures. Who is perfect all the way, never make 1 mistake from birth to the day of passing really? I only know there is One Man who is sinless and has gone back to God the Father in Heaven. This is the One Man who has done and fulfilled every requirement of the Law so that you don't have to. IN fact if you already did not know, ONLY this ONE MAN could fulfilled God's Law perfectly and the Law was waiting for Him and Him alone. His name is Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son.

With all that being said, breath easy and live by faith knowing you have God's grace for everyday endeavors.

God wants you to live by faith, believing in his Son who has completed the requirement of God's Law. Keep this in your heart everyday.

Jesus Christ has fulfilled God's Law and God has credit righteousness to me without me performing to God's Law.

God Bless.

TSunknown warrior
post Jan 4 2023, 09:28 AM

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Have the right opinion about God

John 3:17 (NIV) - For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Blessed Day to all fellow Christians.

There are all kinds of thoughts in this world about God. It is quite common for people to think God is mysterious (God works in a mysterious way), God is trying to catch me in my sins, God is an angry God, God is so far away and silent, doesn't really care, etc.

If you don't put in the effort to have a relationship with God, all those thoughts above come into play because you don't know Him.

You know, all my devotions have 1 purpose in mind. It's to let you know, that you all have equal grounds and opportunity to come to God. Study the verses that I shared and you will know it is true. The devotions that I share basically remove the hard obstacles. It answers the many questions and wrong beliefs people have about God.

Grace Of Jesus Christ is so important because it removes obstacles/ hindrances of the Law that prohibit, without Grace people could not enter into God's presence. But now with Christ, we all can!

All the world's religions are still based on law, ie YOU need to perform to come to God. The emphasis and focus is on Man (You).

Christianity stands on its own. It is different. Christ FINISHED God's work so that you can come to God! The emphasis and focus is on God.

This is what separates Christianity from the rest. God came down to us to remove the obstacle via the sacrifice of Christ's death at the cross. We do not need to perform and measure up against God's law to enter Heaven. This is why the devil attack's Christ death and resurrection greatly and fight to institute the Old Testament law.

The DIVINE word of God tells us ANYTHING that tries to contradict Christ's death or that Christ came as human = Anti-Christ. We must be careful to always remember this.

This devotion is for you. If you ever think God is angry at you, out to get you, read John 3:17, what does it say? This verse is just after the world's famous verse John 3:16.

If God wants to get you, God wouldn't send Christ to save you. Think about it.

God Bless.


This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jan 5 2023, 03:25 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Jan 6 2023, 02:58 PM

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Thirsty Again and again and again

John 4:13 - 14 (NIV) - Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

It's interesting to note, while having conversation with atheists in this forum...I'm reminded of this verse in John 4:13-14.

People are always searching for something to quench thirst, and this thirst can represent many things to different people.
There is a gap in everyone's life that is empty waiting to be filled. It can be knowledge, relationship, money, power, whatever.

God tells us, in the thirst of life, the gap can never be quenched. You will thirst again.

If you think that having all knowledge, power or even money you need can satisfy your life, at the end, it doesn't. Same with the thinking, having a relationship with BF or GF or even having a wife or husband.
The incident with the Samaritan woman's life at the well, help us to understand that.

There will be this emptiness in everyone's life where only God alone can fit in to stop the thirst.

Are you empty on the inside?

The Living God that I know, invites you to consider to allow Him to come into your life, into your heart, so that you can stop searching aimlessly or endlessly.

The empty gap, the thirsts stops when Christ Jesus gives you freely His spring of water (Metaphor for God's Life) to fill your life.

Hope you will consider.

God Bless.




TSunknown warrior
post Jan 14 2023, 09:25 AM

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Being Kept Blameless

1 Thessalonians 5:23 - 24 (NIV) May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The one who calls you is faithful, and he will do it.

Good Day Fellow Believers.

We need to ask ourselves, who is the one who is suppose to keep us blameless? God or us? Both of God & us?

I can already hear critiques telling me Book of James, Faith and works are on 2 sides of same coin, ie Faith without works is dead. Let me remind the readers, Faith without works is dead has nothing to do with, washing away our sins, thus gaining Salvation. Yes you heard me right, go read the entire chapter, you will not find any passage in there telling us the works required is needed to wash our sins and to be saved for Salvation. The works required in faith (book of James) has very much to do with being a living a testimony for God. Because you represent God for people who are not saved. Hence you cannot just be lip service and do nothing in living the Christian life, ie loving people, obeying God, it must be accompanied by action. So the righteousness that the Book of James talks about is "horizontal" righteousness between people and people (Read verse 24, emphasis on the phrase "you see"..you here refers to Man), not between the believer and God else there will be contradiction of theology against other books in the Bible.

We started receiving salvation by faith in Jesus Christ doing nothing to merit in being washed clean and we must end by our meriting? Our doing?...to be kept clean? Something is seriously wrong if we think so.

I believe this is the very part the devil use to confuse some of us so that we walk in erroneous theology resulting in persistent defeat.

Read 1 Thessalonians 5:23 - 24 carefully. It starts with God and it ends with God. The answer to my question = God is the one who will keep you blameless and not only that....God will be faithful to do it.

With that being said, Rest Easy and Breath Easy. Because God is the one who will keep you blameless until Christ second coming, your part is to just live by faith everyday, doing what needs to be done, in loving others, helping others (Family, Friends, etc), serving in Church, etc

Even if you have weakness and flaws.....God is still the one who keeps your

1. Spirit
2. Soul
3. Body

Blameless until the end. So I urge you fellow Christians, keep your eyes on Jesus Christ our God and Saviour, NEVER on your self performances.

God Bless.




TSunknown warrior
post Jan 16 2023, 10:06 AM

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Is God still with us even though we still have flaws?

1 Thessalonians 5:10 (NIV) - He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.

I'm very encouraged when God gave me this verse to help you.

I have people telling me, when we first received Salvation, it's "just" an initial grace, then after that, the rest of our lives depends on what we do. There will be some grace or mercy but by large it depends on our performances. Implying if we fail, God is cut off from us.

If you read from verse 1 of 1 Thessalonians 5, the book will explain...believers are children of light, we belong to the day (reference to day light). We do not belong to the night. Those who sleep, sleep at night, those who get drunk, get drunk at night.

What does this means?

Sleep, night, getting drunk are all connotations of weakness or flaws, ie people who are not living according to the will of God. Are they referring to habitual sins? I dare not say, because I don't know.

But what I do know is that; this verse very strongly explains, God does not discard you away even when you have weaknesses. It would be pointless for verse 11 to tell us to "therefore" encourage one another. Not unless there will be believers who are asleep, gets drunk in night, etc.

You don't need to encourage or build up believers who are already living in light everyday. These are already living under God's will.

So I hope this devotion today will encourage you...who are asleep to come back to the Father in Heaven who loves you with an everlasting love.

God Bless.


This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jan 16 2023, 10:06 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Jan 16 2023, 05:25 PM

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Christianity has too many denominations so Christianity is not true?

Mark 9:39-40 (NIV) -

38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”
39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me,
40 for whoever is not against us is for us.


It's interesting to note that the 12 apostles thought they were "the" exclusive chosen of God, hence anyone outside of them are to be warried if not rejected or deemed unrecognized.

I thank God that God did not agree to such thoughts. While the 12 was chosen, God already had in mind to reach out to others, the Samaritan women at the well who became an instant evangelist for example. Saul who later became Apostle Paul was not part of the chosen 12. In fact the 12 Apostles wasn't comfortable and were very cautious with Paul. Yet Paul wrote most of the New Testament though he was not of the original 12.

Now I'm not advocating that we should simply accept any religious person or organization claiming to be Christian as there are cults with false teachers. We still need to be careful to know what is true, supported by scripture as whole. What has already been established in scripture cannot be changed. For example, anyone claiming to be a "new" Messiah, should send obvious warning signals.

Besides, you have the Holy Spirit in you to warn you. There will be something scratchy / uneasiness when you see something that doesn't add up or tries to contradict the Bible.

Yet we cannot live under paranoid fear and be so rigid to reject people outside of the denomination that we prefer to be in. Personally I do not believe in denominations.

What am I trying to say here?

I believe God can use anyone....literally anyone In body of Christ. It doesn't have to be from a particular denomination. It can be someone famous or unknown. I know this to be true. It's interesting if you read Azusa Street revival records(Very interesting read), there are so many spectacular miracles dispense from ministers, lay people, etc you have never heard of.

At times I think we need to heed the word of Christ our Lord in Mark 9 Verse 39 to be united as One body of Christ.

Just food for thought

God Bless.



TSunknown warrior
post Jan 17 2023, 12:48 PM

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Hold On!

Colossians 1: 16 - 17 (NIV) - For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

This is the power of Christ! All things were created through Him and for Him! Therefore Christ has the power to hold things together.

If you feel that your world is falling apart, whether it's relationship, marriage, study, career, whatever it is...

You can pray to Jesus Christ to Hold what is falling apart together!

God can restore broken lives, broken relationship even broken spirit!

It's what I do, when at times the fight of life seems too much, I pray to Lord Jesus Christ to hold my world and my life and to keep me in his hands.

And God is faithful, have faith.

God Bless!

TSunknown warrior
post Jan 19 2023, 04:55 PM

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PROOF OF KING DAVID DISCOVERED! Archaeological researchers coming to solid conclusions on the Mesha Stele for the first time.
gashout
post Jan 19 2023, 06:04 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jan 19 2023, 04:55 PM)


PROOF OF KING DAVID DISCOVERED! Archaeological researchers coming to solid conclusions on the Mesha Stele for the first time.
*
bible has always been a book of history, who says those characters are fictions?
TSunknown warrior
post Jan 19 2023, 06:42 PM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Jan 19 2023, 06:04 PM)
bible has always been a book of history, who says those characters are fictions?
*
With regards to archeology findings, King David didn't had much evidence for his existence, until recently.

The tablets discovered in etched in writing proves that his kingdom existed and thus the king also existed.
TSunknown warrior
post Jan 31 2023, 10:22 AM

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Faith is a Fight.

1 Timothy 6:12 (NIV) - Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

I'll start by this stating this truth. It's not easy to live the Christian Life. In fact it's virtually impossible to live it by human self effort without God's involvement. Why? Because even though saved in Salvation by Christ, we are still living in a fallen body (corruptible physical body). This fallen body still have the tendency of the flesh (carnal nature). The nature of the flesh is always anti-God. Which is why you always see unbelievers being against God but don't know why.

In having a right flame of understanding, you must understand, "though " you live in a corruptible body, your identity is no longer of corrupted status. Your new identity is a new creation in Christ. Your Spirit (You) has been made new by the blood of Christ, washed separated of all sins. Your soul (emotions, intellect, etc) because it's still in the fallen body needs to be renewed (change of mind - repentance) everyday. Bible tells us to be transformed by the renewing of our minds.

Hence why there is a "fight" as we can still be tempted. It starts with the mind, depending on what we allow to come into our eye or ears. The moment you are saved by Christ, not only the nature of the flesh becomes a challenge, Satan (& his kingdom) will wage war against you.

In retrospect, so that we know.....while our current body will be done with and put away once we passed on, our new body awaits us at Christ second coming. This new body will be glorious without corruption.

but until then...we have a fight in our life, called Fight the good fight of faith. The Christian Fight is an oxymoron situation. We don't fight as in physical boxing fight opponent against opponent. To think it is so, would mean we are already defeated. Satan has given you an erroneous perspective.

Our Fight is to enter into God's Rest. We fight by surrendering in prayer, trusting God. Fighting the good fight of faith means that we live a restful life believing & living in God's provision of Grace and Blessings. IE God fighting for us. (Take note on this phrase)

Not grit in teeth, using our will power or strength. We don't fight with by our forced effort. <-----Leads to sin of self righteousness.

Our Fight is to hold on in believing God that we stand in victory won by Christ. Not Fight "FOR" victory, despite of having difficulties or challenges, big difference there.
I know it is a lot to take in for those who are unfamiliar with how God's Kingdom works but I hope this devotion still helps.

If you have questions which you're not sure, feel free to ask.

But until then, God Bless.

TSunknown warrior
post Feb 3 2023, 10:49 AM

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Spiritual Warfare

Revelation 12:10 (KJV) - And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

We need to understand, the moment we accept Christ and come into God's Kingdom as children of God, automatically we becomes Satan's enemy. And born again believers will have spiritual warfare. There is no escaping this.

This devotion is to arm you with knowledge so that you understand what is going on and you know what to do. In view of all things, before we continue, you need to know that ultimately God has the upper hand and has won against Satan in victory. If that is true, how come our prayers are not answered or how come we are experiencing setbacks, pain or even seemingly defeating situations?

To understand why, I will ask you questions for you to think. But before that, consider this.

In Luke 22 Verse 31, Our Lord Jesus Christ said something interesting. "Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift each of you like wheat." In simple term, Satan wants to thoroughly check out (Examine, Test) the believer to see what he/she is made of. And do take note Satan had to ask God for permission before he could. The phrase "has asked" indicates that, else the enemy would have gone ahead to do it without even asking.

In Zechariah 3 Verse 1, In a vision, prophet Zachariah saw Joshua the High Priest standing before the Angel of the Lord. Satan was there to oppose or accuse him.

In line with the main verse of today's Devotion. Satan is known as the accuser of the brethren day and night.

What is the point of all these?

To answer this, You need to ask yourself, what is Satan trying to do even? What does he gets out of it? What for?

Do you know that the enemy can delay or hinder your prayers? Not only prayers but also hinder your life as Christians. How?

Well now you know. It is through his accusations against you before God in the spiritual realm. Satan needs to accuse you with something. And that something has to do with you missing the mark or falling short against God's Law.

How do I know this? Read Colossians 2:14 - 15.

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross. (KJV) Verse 14

And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. (NIV) Verse 15

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances is in reference to the 10 commandments (God's Law) as they are handwritten by God himself. (Verse 14)
The word disarm indicates to deprive of power or render harmless. The power and authorities in context uses God's law as a weaponry. (Verse 15)

If Satan could successfully accuse you before God and he is right, this means Satan would have legal rights against you. This is how Satan gets to you and your family.

To defeat Satan's legal rights, there is only 1 solution. And No, it's not your obedience to God's Law. If you try that, Satan will have a field day defeating anytime, any day.

There is only 1 thing, the devil cannot defeat. It is the Blood of Jesus Christ. Stand your ground quoting Colossians 2 verse 13 to 15, quoting the blood in your defense.

The blood of Christ disarm Satan. The blood of Christ showcase God's Grace for you. You can pray in the spiritual realm warring against Satan's legal rights, petitioning for the blood of Jesus to speak for you and to defend your life.

No wonder the enemy fight tooth and nail to discredit Christ death on the cross. Because it's the only power that crushes him.

Digest this and practice this in your Christian Life.

God Bless.






TSunknown warrior
post Feb 7 2023, 08:31 AM

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The one verse that will destroy all arguments saying Christ is not God

Luke 10:18 (NIV) - He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

When Satan was kicked out of Heaven, Man wasn't created yet. There was only God and his angels and God's Heavenly Kingdom. The creation of earth and man happened after the fall of Satan.

Christ Jesus said "I saw..." Meaning He was there with God the Father seeing Satan being kicked out.

Hence He cannot be a prophet or any human as no human were created at the point of Satan's fell from heaven.

God spoke this verse to me when I pondered where in scripture did Christ Jesus said He is God.

God gave us a mind, brain to think. He expect us to meditate with the help of the Holy Spirit to think and to understand scripture.

Anyway, other than Luke 10:18, there are recorded accusation of the Pharisees who wanted to stone Jesus for the claim to be God. See the verse below.

John 10:33 (NIV) - “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

There you have it, another evidence from scripture proving Christ claim to be God.

Though it was not recorded from the mouth of Christ claiming He is God yet the Pharisees wanted to stone Him for the claim to be God. The act of stoning is no trivial matter. It must be on level of a heavy sin or blasphemy. Hence there is no doubt Christ MUST have validated Himself so much so in his acts and words to imply HE is indeed God. The miracles linking to his claim of equality with God the Father was recorded. That was how the Pharisee was made to understand.

Jesus Christ did not shy from that, NEITHER did He reject that Title when he was accused of it.

Let this evidence put to rest of any doubt.

God Bless.






TSunknown warrior
post Feb 7 2023, 09:04 AM

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Further evidence proving Christ Jesus is God

Mark 2:7 (NIV) - “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

We all know there are many records of Christ Jesus forgiving sinners of their sins. And this shocked the Pharisees, teachers of God's Law.

Understand the context during Jesus Earthly ministry. No prophet could proclaim the forgiveness of sins. Why? Because only God is qualified.

Prior to Christ Jesus's crucifixion, there was not one, no human qualified to forgive sins of another human. And it's not just the mere saying of I forgive your sins. Any human can speak out those words but what are the validations?

Whenever Christ Jesus proclaim forgiveness of sin, He validated that forgiveness with miracle of healing or restoration, thus proving his Deity. Understand the context of timeline when Christ did this.

Those who are cleared of all condemnation could easily received from God his blessings. Whatever blessings that it.

Hence why the devil fight so hard to discredit Christ death and resurrection on the cross. The enemy wants people to doubt Christ death and resurrection so that they remain in bondage to the powers of darkness. Because when people realizes how powerful Christ blood is, the devil is defeated.

Only the Blood of Jesus can easily destroy all the devil's work, the devil could not resist it, no matter hard he try, it's an automatic defeat for him.

God Bless.






SUSBrookLes
post Feb 7 2023, 04:16 PM

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How sure the Jesus that you believe in is the Jesus in the Bible?
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 7 2023, 04:26 PM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Feb 7 2023, 04:16 PM)
How sure the Jesus that you believe in is the Jesus in the Bible?
*
Hi, what could cause the doubt?
SUSBrookLes
post Feb 7 2023, 05:13 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Feb 7 2023, 04:26 PM)
Hi, what could cause the doubt?
*
Just asking.
ahhann
post Feb 7 2023, 05:34 PM

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How to counter these myths:
"All assistance lend from Christian all end up they forcing their ajar into your mind and die die must masuk Christian. Better don't ask for their help"
Roman Catholic
post Feb 7 2023, 10:12 PM

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QUOTE(ahhann @ Feb 7 2023, 05:34 PM)
How to counter these myths:
"All assistance lend from Christian all end up they forcing their ajar into your mind and die die must masuk Christian. Better don't ask for their help"
*
If masuk Christianity pasal monetary or any other kind of assistance and nothing else, seriously please do not masuk Christianity.
SUSBrookLes
post Feb 7 2023, 10:19 PM

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Just asking my earlier questions for everyone benefit.
How do you confirm that you believe in the actual Jesus.
Even Muslims also say they believe in Jesus.
So what makes your Jesus different then the Jesus believed by the Muslims.
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post Feb 8 2023, 09:20 AM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Feb 7 2023, 10:19 PM)
Just asking my earlier questions for everyone benefit.
How do you confirm that you believe in the actual Jesus.
Even Muslims also say they believe in Jesus.
So what makes your Jesus different then the Jesus believed by the Muslims.
*
The Jesus of the Muslims was born to Miriam that was confused with the sister of Aaron and Moses. On the other hand, even though they call Isa as al-Masih (Messiah), they do not accept Him as such but just like the other prophets.
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post Feb 8 2023, 10:49 AM

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Now this had piqued my interest on the Islamic version of our Lord Jesus Christ. Strangely I scanned online for any teachings directly of our Lord in the Quran, but there was nothing I could find !
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post Feb 8 2023, 11:51 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 8 2023, 10:49 AM)
Now this had piqued my interest on the Islamic version of our Lord Jesus Christ. Strangely I scanned online for any teachings directly of our Lord in the Quran, but there was nothing I could find !
*
Sadly, their version of Jesus is totally NOT the same person as Jesus in the bible. It's a whole different person. Genealogy wise(check out Miriam in the Quran) = all are different to the Muslim version(Some say that they are distorted/faked). Isa / Easa IS not Jesus in the bible. Period.

The Quran just copy and pasted what the scriptures came before them, Torah / Injil etc and twisted it to their whims. Claiming the Quran is the final and completed version of all scriptures. So many distorted and contradictions in their own Quran ITSELF. While claiming the Bible is corrupted is beyond amazing.

IE : Quran(Supposedly higher authority) says that they have to solat/pray 3 times a day. Whereas in their Hadiths says 5 times. In general, Muslims are supposed to take QURAN in higher regard and FOLLOW the teachings in the Quran, but Mohammad teaches it's 5 times a day. So, who to follow? Allah or Mohammad?

If only Muslims really check out and READ and understand the book THEMSELVES. Which is mostly in LITERAL meaning(WITHOUT ANY SCHOLARS to brainwash etc) They will see the light.

Ex-M
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post Feb 8 2023, 02:52 PM

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QUOTE(Pubgamesrhard @ Feb 8 2023, 11:51 AM)
Sadly, their version of Jesus is totally NOT the same person as Jesus in the bible. It's a whole different person. Genealogy wise(check out Miriam in the Quran) = all are different to the Muslim version(Some say that they are distorted/faked). Isa / Easa IS not Jesus in the bible. Period.

The Quran just copy and pasted what the scriptures came before them, Torah / Injil etc and twisted it to their whims. Claiming the Quran is the final and completed version of all scriptures. So many distorted and contradictions in their own Quran ITSELF. While claiming the Bible is corrupted is beyond amazing.

IE : Quran(Supposedly higher authority) says that they have to solat/pray 3 times a day. Whereas in their Hadiths says 5 times. In general, Muslims are supposed to take QURAN in higher regard and FOLLOW the teachings in the Quran, but Mohammad teaches it's 5 times a day. So, who to follow? Allah or Mohammad?

If only Muslims really check out and READ and understand the book THEMSELVES. Which is mostly in LITERAL meaning(WITHOUT ANY SCHOLARS to brainwash etc) They will see the light.

Ex-M
*
Watch this YouTube video that just popped up in my screen titled Young Chinese Lady, 24, from Singapore Embraces Islam

I tried putting up the link here but it just seems impossible.
kevinc
post Feb 8 2023, 03:53 PM

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some masuk to kao lui
kevinc
post Feb 8 2023, 03:55 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 8 2023, 02:52 PM)
Watch this YouTube video that just popped up in my screen titled Young Chinese Lady, 24, from Singapore Embraces Islam

I tried putting up the link here but it just seems impossible.
*
this ar


Roman Catholic
post Feb 8 2023, 04:41 PM

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QUOTE(kevinc @ Feb 8 2023, 03:55 PM)
this ar


*
Yup
Pubgamesrhard
post Feb 9 2023, 08:19 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 8 2023, 02:52 PM)
Watch this YouTube video that just popped up in my screen titled Young Chinese Lady, 24, from Singapore Embraces Islam

I tried putting up the link here but it just seems impossible.
*
Another one that didn't do their homework.
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 9 2023, 08:31 AM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Feb 7 2023, 10:19 PM)
Just asking my earlier questions for everyone benefit.
How do you confirm that you believe in the actual Jesus.
Even Muslims also say they believe in Jesus.
So what makes your Jesus different then the Jesus believed by the Muslims.
*
The Jesus that I know (of the Bible) different from that religion teaches / says this one thing that sets it apart.

Love your enemies pray for those who persecute you.


I think, for those who lived long enough in Christianity will understand this;

The nature of the flesh or carnality, the natural reaction is to strike back when being offended.

The devil love this. The devil is all about destruction (kill, steal & destroy). How many have the devil has instigated people to kill or harm others thinking they're doing God a favor? Even this phrase is recorded in the Bible.
And Yet God tells us to do something that is really mind boggling if not weird.

Why love enemies who persecute or wants to harm you even?

It caused me to think this God is different from all others.

God has repeated told us, VENGEANCE "BELONGS" to HIM alone.

In overall perspective, it helped me to understand only God is qualified to dispense judgement if not vengeance. We human with limited knowledge who do not know everything hence is utterly unqualified. To be able to dispense judgement, you must know the facts and you must know everything that is going on to the best of your knowledge, else it will be flawed judgement. Only God has that kind of knowledge but a complete one A-Z.

This has given me the perspective the God that I've come to believe in and live in is the right one and different.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Feb 9 2023, 08:33 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 9 2023, 08:39 AM

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QUOTE(ahhann @ Feb 7 2023, 05:34 PM)
How to counter these myths:
"All assistance lend from Christian all end up they forcing their ajar into your mind and die die must masuk Christian. Better don't ask for their help"
*
I can understand your feeling but Christian main concern is after all for the well being of your soul if you can see it.

Their main concern is for you to saved from destruction.

But anyway the call to help other is something God tells us to do but whether you want to accept the invitation to be save or not cannot be forced, it's your right to choose.


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post Feb 9 2023, 08:44 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Feb 9 2023, 08:31 AM)
The Jesus that I know (of the Bible) different from that religion teaches / says this one thing that sets it apart.

Love your enemies pray for those who persecute you.


I think, for those who lived long enough in Christianity will understand this;

The nature of the flesh or carnality, the natural reaction is to strike back when being offended.

The devil love this. The devil is all about destruction (kill, steal & destroy). How many have the devil has instigated people to kill or harm others thinking they're doing God a favor? Even this phrase is recorded in the Bible.
And Yet God tells us to do something that is really mind boggling if not weird.

Why love enemies who persecute or wants to harm you even? 

It caused me to think this God is different from all others.

God has repeated told us, VENGEANCE "BELONGS" to HIM alone.

In overall perspective, it helped me to understand only God is qualified to dispense judgement if not vengeance. We human with limited knowledge who do not know everything hence is utterly unqualified. To be able to dispense judgement, you must know the facts and you must know everything that is going on to the best of your knowledge, else it will be flawed judgement. Only God has that kind of knowledge but a complete one A-Z.

This has given me the perspective the God that I've come to believe in and live in is the right one and different.
*
Can you give a real life experience of who was your enemy and what they did to you and how when presented with the opportunity to actually strike back you did not.

Roman Catholic
post Feb 9 2023, 08:50 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Feb 9 2023, 08:39 AM)
I can understand your feeling but Christian main concern is after all for the well being of your soul if you can see it.

Their main concern is for you to saved from destruction.

But anyway the call to help other is something God tells us to do but whether you want to accept the invitation to be save or not cannot be forced, it's your right to choose.
*
Save from destruction ? I really don't know about that one. Lately I have been following YouTube Nabi Asli channel to understand about the Quran. Oh boy, what I can say is this, based on the teachings alone. As much as the Muslims wants to claim that our Lord Jesus is the same as their prophet Isa, our Almighty God is the same as their Allah, they are not the same at all. Their teachings in the Quran contradicts everything in our Holy Bible.

Yup agree with your last line, it is the same when our Lord walked on earth. Repent for the Kingdom of God is close at hand.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Feb 9 2023, 08:53 AM
Roman Catholic
post Feb 9 2023, 08:56 AM

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QUOTE(Pubgamesrhard @ Feb 9 2023, 08:19 AM)
Another one that didn't do their homework.
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To me, it's more like us Christians had failed in transmitting our own Christian faith to our younger Christian generation.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Feb 9 2023, 11:00 AM
SharpSword
post Feb 9 2023, 09:02 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 9 2023, 08:50 AM)
Save from destruction ? I really don't know about that one. Lately I have been following YouTube Nabi Asli channel to understand about the Quran. Oh boy, what I can say is this, based on the teachings alone. As much as the Muslims wants to claim that our Lord Jesus is the same as their prophet Isa, our Almighty God is the same as their Allah, they are not the same at all. Their teachings in the Quran contradicts everything in our Holy Bible.

Yup agree with your last line, it is the same when our Lord walked on earth. Repent for the Kingdom of God is close at hand.
*
It's clear that Islam and Christianity are different religions though share some common values.
But jangan pandai pandai stir up tension between the 2 just to show how clever or right you are. You shd understand the context of the country we live in. We are admonish to be at peace with all men..... As far as possible.
prophetjul
post Feb 9 2023, 09:15 AM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Feb 7 2023, 10:19 PM)
Just asking my earlier questions for everyone benefit.
How do you confirm that you believe in the actual Jesus.
Even Muslims also say they believe in Jesus.
So what makes your Jesus different then the Jesus believed by the Muslims.
*
Isa of Islam is just another messenger.
Whereas Yeshua/Jesus of the Christians is the Almighty God Messiah who DIED and REsurrected after 3 days as He prophesied.
Muslins do not believe this.
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 9 2023, 09:44 AM

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The claim that the Apostle Paul is deceitful and has corrupted the Bible.

Galatians 2:9 (NIV) - James, Cephas and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised.


Lets look at the facts of Apostle Paul.

Before he met Christ, he was Saul a Pharisee of Pharisees who wanted to kill of Christianity. He very well advance in Judaism even beyond his peers in knowledge and zeal.

Why would someone steeped in what he believes in, and wanting to destroy Christianity, end up writing the Bible and rooting in support of Jesus Christ a 180 degrees turn?

That is Fact No 1 and it doesn't make any sense to say he is deceitful and wants to corrupt the Bible. Not unless he has indeed believe he has met the God of the scripture. That was all that mattered in his life.

The Bible cannot stand for long if you try to destroy by writing but at the same time rooting in great support. It just cannot last. No house, no organization can stand the test of time when you fight against internally or try to contradict. .

Everything that the Apostle Paul wrote and teach, ALL of them points to loving God and repenting from Sin. Nothing he wrote indicated to contradict what God wanted.

That is Fact No 2 and it doesn't make any sense to say he is deceitful and wants to corrupt the Bible.

And

Fact No 3. Paul was not influence by any human with regards to the message he preached and wrote.

Galatians 1: 11-12 (NIV) - I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

For Paul to be deceitful with intent to corrupt the Bible, all that he wrote would have been rejected by the Apostles and the church at that time. Yet he was accepted and recognize as an apostle and that his writing as accepted as authority of scripture. Bear in mind when Paul tried to join the other apostles at first, the apostles were afraid and didn't believe he was a disciple of Christ. What lead the other apostles to accept him later on? Think about it. It can only lead to the point that indeed Christ has chosen Paul to write the Bible as recorded on Galatians 1. Because they recognize Christ in Paul's writing. The Apostles are no nonsense type of people who simply accept anyone.

Fact No 4. Paul was convinced all that he understood & believed in Judaism is finally revealed pointing to Christ. For Judaism, God's Law was the center of attention for everything. It is the measuring stick to be measured against. Yet in Paul writing's, he finally understood the Law was not the truth but Christ is. If Paul had deceitful intention, he would have discredit Christ and magnified even more of what Judaism uphold not the other way around.

There are more to go on but I believe these 4 simple facts is enough to tell you, Paul who prior to conversion was willing to kill believers of Christ now is willing to die to defend all that is of Christianity, God, Scripture and even fellow believers.

Therefore, the idea that Paul corrupted or invented the beliefs of Christianity has no basis whatsoever. Indeed, Paul was a faithful minister of the gospel of Christ.

God Bless.


This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Feb 9 2023, 11:05 AM
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post Feb 9 2023, 10:46 AM

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QUOTE(SharpSword @ Feb 9 2023, 08:44 AM)
Can you give a real life experience of who was your enemy and what they did to you and how when presented  with the opportunity to actually strike back you did not.
*
Sorry bro, rather keep it P&C for now, I may have disclosed it the last time in previous Christian thread.

But suffice to say there is and even now.

It's still a learning curve for me, dare not claim I'm perfectly holy or what not. But I need to let go and love still, providing aid when needed.

The main gist of Christian life is to live free, light of burdens or bondages of hate, bad habits, etc.

To have God living in our life & heart is to be free of hate, bitterness, unforgiveness or resentment even.

Christianity is really day to day living with God in our lives. Being close....But for us we can call God our Heavenly Father even because that is what He is to his children.

Relationship.


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post Feb 9 2023, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 9 2023, 08:50 AM)
Save from destruction ? I really don't know about that one. Lately I have been following YouTube Nabi Asli channel to understand about the Quran. Oh boy, what I can say is this, based on the teachings alone. As much as the Muslims wants to claim that our Lord Jesus is the same as their prophet Isa, our Almighty God is the same as their Allah, they are not the same at all. Their teachings in the Quran contradicts everything in our Holy Bible.

Yup agree with your last line, it is the same when our Lord walked on earth. Repent for the Kingdom of God is close at hand.
*
Hebrews 10:38 - 39 (NIV) - And, But my righteous one will live by faith. And I take no pleasure in the one who shrinks back. But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.

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post Feb 9 2023, 11:10 AM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Feb 7 2023, 10:19 PM)
Just asking my earlier questions for everyone benefit.
How do you confirm that you believe in the actual Jesus.
Even Muslims also say they believe in Jesus.
So what makes your Jesus different then the Jesus believed by the Muslims.
*

Disclaimer : All purely my opinion and it is up to you to take it or leave it. I'm just sharing my thoughts and some pointers.


I would say, His characteristics. - John 10:30-33
If you want to know more, you can do your own research.
His life biography all in the Bible. - Matthew, Mark, Luke, John
It's like getting to know a person, a new friend/relationship.
Take it as a personal journey. (For me, it is a life-changing experience.)

In this age of time, we're lucky to have the Bible easily available for us.
It's also digitally available online.

Also, everyone can say they believe in God/Jesus, the Devil also believe in God. - James 2:19
Believing easily without fact finding and understanding is called gullible.

So the question here, seriously, do you want to know Jesus personally? - John 10:27-28

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OlgaC4
post Feb 9 2023, 11:12 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 9 2023, 09:15 AM)
Isa of Islam is just another messenger.
Whereas Yeshua/Jesus of the Christians is the Almighty God Messiah who DIED and REsurrected after 3 days as He prophesied.
Muslins do not believe this.
*
But muslim believe Isa is born of virgin Mary.
But why Isa have this kind of special privilege?

This post has been edited by OlgaC4: Feb 9 2023, 11:13 AM
Roman Catholic
post Feb 9 2023, 11:17 AM

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QUOTE(OlgaC4 @ Feb 9 2023, 11:12 AM)
But muslim believe Isa is born of virgin Mary.
But why Isa have this kind of special privilege?
*
OlgaC4 you are a Muslim right ? Stop equating Isa being born of the Virgin Mary. Your prophet Isa is born of a different Mary from the Christians Virgin Mary. Either you are confused OR you are trying to confuse everyone.
prophetjul
post Feb 9 2023, 11:18 AM

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QUOTE(OlgaC4 @ Feb 9 2023, 11:12 AM)
But muslim believe Isa is born of virgin Mary.
But why Isa have this kind of special privilege?
*
There are many special special characteristics of Isa in the Quran. They cannot explain this clearly. Obviously it is plagiarised from the NT.
However, they do not accept the divinity and Messiahship of Jesus.
OlgaC4
post Feb 9 2023, 11:21 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 9 2023, 11:17 AM)
OlgaC4 you are a Muslim right ? Stop equating Isa being born of the Virgin Mary. Your prophet Isa is born of a different Mary from the Christians Virgin Mary. Either you are confused OR you are trying to confuse everyone.
*
I am sin slave bought by Jesus using His own blood.
Roman Catholic
post Feb 9 2023, 11:24 AM

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I applaud our brother & sisters in Christ of sharing our faith but the real danger doing this online without knowing who is actually behind the end of the other line, our words will be used against our very own brother & sister who are completely weak in their faith. The YouTube videos that I am coming across about Christians converting to other faiths, they are using the same Christian stories to suit and justify their narrative for conversion !

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Feb 9 2023, 11:26 AM
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post Feb 9 2023, 11:26 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 9 2023, 11:24 AM)
I applaud our brother & sisters in Christ of sharing our faith but the real danger doing this online without knowing who is actually behind the end of the other line, our words will be used against our very own brother & sister who are completely weak in their faith.
*
Also...

Being the moderator for this thread, if there are moment ..any hint of fights start, I'll have to delete such posts.

Guys keep everything level headed and calm.

Thank you very muchi.
Roman Catholic
post Feb 9 2023, 11:33 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Feb 9 2023, 11:26 AM)
Also...

Being the moderator for this thread, if there are moment ..any hint of fights start, I'll have to delete such posts.

Guys keep everything level headed and calm.

Thank you very muchi.
*
And whoever welcome a little child like this in my name welcomes me. BUT if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large milestone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

As scriptures says we must be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Feb 9 2023, 11:34 AM
prophetjul
post Feb 9 2023, 11:37 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 9 2023, 11:24 AM)
I applaud our brother & sisters in Christ of sharing our faith but the real danger doing this online without knowing who is actually behind the end of the other line, our words will be used against our very own brother & sister who are completely weak in their faith. The YouTube videos that I am coming across about Christians converting to other faiths, they are using the same Christian stories to suit and justify their narrative for conversion !
*
It is quite obvious from the video, she was not discipled and left on her own.
Most churches are very weak in discipleship.
OTOH there are many members in churches for various reasons, which may not include becoming a disciple of Jesus.
Roman Catholic
post Feb 9 2023, 11:42 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 9 2023, 11:37 AM)
It is quite obvious from the video, she was not discipled and left on her own.
Most churches are very weak in discipleship.
OTOH there are many members in churches for various reasons, which may not include becoming a disciple of Jesus.
*
Agree. Something is seriously wrong when my church starts to replace our Holy Bible for any other textbook for Catechism classes. I was asked to teach Catechism in a Catholic school once and I was not allowed to use the Holy Bible ! You cannot imagine how ridiculous that sounds to me.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Feb 9 2023, 11:43 AM
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post Feb 9 2023, 11:46 AM

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QUOTE(SharpSword @ Feb 9 2023, 09:02 AM)
It's clear that Islam and Christianity are different religions though share some common values.
But jangan pandai pandai stir up tension between the 2 just to show how clever or right you are. You shd understand the context of the country we live in. We are admonish to be at peace with all men..... As far as possible.
*
Please research your daily prayers. Learn and understand what it means. If you're true to yourself, you'll learn that you're cursing the Jews and bad mouthing Christians, EVERY, SINGLE, TIME, you solat.

Now tell me, where is the "peacefulness" in your religion.
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post Feb 9 2023, 11:46 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 9 2023, 11:42 AM)
Agree. Something is seriously wrong when my church starts to replace our Holy Bible for any other textbook for Catechism classes. I was asked to teach Catechism in a Catholic school once and I was not allowed to use the Holy Bible ! You cannot imagine how ridiculous that sounds to me.
*
Sounds bad. But that's the Roman church. Catechisms and traditions are more important than the scriptures.
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post Feb 9 2023, 11:47 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 9 2023, 11:46 AM)
Sounds bad. But that's the Roman church. Catechisms and traditions are more important than the scriptures.
*
It is bad. Really bad. No wonder the little ones are completely at a lost.
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post Feb 9 2023, 11:50 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 9 2023, 11:47 AM)
It is bad. Really bad. No wonder the little ones are completely at a lost.
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So what makes you stay in the Roman church?
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post Feb 9 2023, 11:51 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 9 2023, 11:50 AM)
So what makes you stay in the Roman church?
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The Word of God.
SharpSword
post Feb 9 2023, 11:53 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Feb 9 2023, 10:46 AM)
Sorry bro, rather keep it P&C for now, I may have disclosed it the last time in previous Christian thread.

But suffice to say there is and even now.

It's still a learning curve for me, dare not claim I'm perfectly holy or what not. But I need to let go and love still, providing aid when needed.

The main gist of Christian life is to live free, light of burdens or bondages of hate, bad habits, etc.

To have God living in our life & heart is to be free of hate, bitterness, unforgiveness or resentment even.

Christianity is really day to day living with God in our lives. Being close....But for us we can call God our Heavenly Father even because that is what He is to his children.

Relationship.
*
You need to be aware whatever you preach you will be tested on. It's best to talk only about those things which are a living reality in our lives.... For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power.
Let me share my experience about what this means. People confuse emotion with spiritual reality. Anger is emotion and we are allowed to get angry but do not sin.... This is the word. I got very angry with the neighbour once and contemplated taking revenge. And sure enough the perfect opportunity presented itself. But when time came for execution I found that something in me would not allow me to carry it out. Thus I understood the differences between emotion and spiritual reality. I may feel angry but spiritual reality is.... The law of the Spirit of life in Christ had set me free from the law of sin and death. There are many false preachers around today who are saying things that appeal to the emotions but devoid of spiritual reality.
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post Feb 9 2023, 11:56 AM

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QUOTE(Pubgamesrhard @ Feb 9 2023, 11:46 AM)
Please research your daily prayers. Learn and understand what it means. If you're true to yourself, you'll learn that you're cursing the Jews and bad mouthing Christians, EVERY, SINGLE, TIME, you solat.

Now tell me, where is the "peacefulness" in your religion.
*
Sorry I am not a Muslim and don't solat.
But I try to keep on good terms with Muslims because such is the nation.

prophetjul
post Feb 9 2023, 11:57 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 9 2023, 11:51 AM)
The Word of God.
*
How's that? Are you staying to try to bring in the word of God into their lives?
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post Feb 9 2023, 12:30 PM

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QUOTE(SharpSword @ Feb 9 2023, 11:53 AM)
You need to be aware whatever you preach you will be tested on. It's best to talk only about those things which are a living reality in our lives.... For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power.
Let me share my experience about what this means. People confuse emotion with spiritual reality. Anger is emotion and we are allowed to get angry but do not sin.... This is the word. I got very angry with the neighbour once and contemplated taking revenge. And sure enough the perfect opportunity presented itself. But when time came for execution I found that something in me would not allow me to carry it out. Thus I understood the differences between emotion and spiritual reality. I may feel angry but spiritual reality is.... The law of the Spirit of life in Christ had set me free from the law of sin and death. There are many false preachers around today who are saying things that appeal to the emotions but devoid of spiritual reality.
*
Agree and you will never regret from pulling away to retaliate.

I've come to the place knowing God is always right.
SUSNoComment222
post Feb 9 2023, 12:31 PM

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Oh Christians, repent, for I am your Lord saviour. Follow me. If Jesus is in the same room as I am, he shall convert
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post Feb 9 2023, 12:32 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 9 2023, 11:42 AM)
Agree. Something is seriously wrong when my church starts to replace our Holy Bible for any other textbook for Catechism classes. I was asked to teach Catechism in a Catholic school once and I was not allowed to use the Holy Bible ! You cannot imagine how ridiculous that sounds to me.
*
If you replace the bible with something else. Is call cults.

OlgaC4
post Feb 9 2023, 12:35 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 9 2023, 11:51 AM)
The Word of God.
*
There is only half true of word of God in Roman catholic.
If you understand what is mass. You will not even enter the catholic church.
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post Feb 9 2023, 12:38 PM

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QUOTE(OlgaC4 @ Feb 9 2023, 12:35 PM)
There is only half true of word of God in Roman catholic.
If you understand what is mass. You will not even enter the catholic church.
*
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Half true ? So please inform which part of the other half is a LIE ?

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Feb 9 2023, 12:39 PM
OlgaC4
post Feb 9 2023, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 9 2023, 12:38 PM)
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Half true ? So please inform which part of the other half is a LIE ?
*
Find out what the meaning of mass first.
Then your eyes will open

This post has been edited by OlgaC4: Feb 9 2023, 12:45 PM
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post Feb 9 2023, 12:47 PM

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QUOTE(OlgaC4 @ Feb 9 2023, 12:45 PM)
Find out what the meaning of mass first.
Then your eyes will open
*
So what is stoping you from opening my eyes ?

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Feb 9 2023, 12:48 PM
OlgaC4
post Feb 9 2023, 12:51 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 9 2023, 12:47 PM)
So what is stoping you from opening my eyes ?
*
You need to go back to basic. Which i cannot help you.
The basic is the first commandment.
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post Feb 9 2023, 12:54 PM

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QUOTE(OlgaC4 @ Feb 9 2023, 12:51 PM)
You need to go back to basic. Which i cannot help you.
The basic is the first commandment.
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Habisla you OlgaC4 becareful lo about the large millstone.
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post Feb 9 2023, 12:56 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 9 2023, 12:54 PM)
Habisla you OlgaC4 becareful lo about the large millstone.
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I am slave bought over by the blood of the lamb
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post Feb 9 2023, 01:03 PM

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I will throw in some concerts and group open houses with tailored songs to my name, join me, oh my fellow followers.
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post Feb 9 2023, 01:04 PM

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QUOTE(NoComment222 @ Feb 9 2023, 01:03 PM)
I will throw in some concerts and group open houses with tailored songs to my name, join me, oh my fellow followers.
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Click baiting? biggrin.gif
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post Feb 9 2023, 02:59 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 9 2023, 12:38 PM)
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Half true ? So please inform which part of the other half is a LIE ?
*
half true
lol
SUSBrookLes
post Feb 9 2023, 03:15 PM

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I think most people misunderstood my question. But I thought I was pretty clear when I used Islam as an example. I was not just talking about Islam per say.
I was not just talking about the Jesus that Muslims believes per say. I was also talking about the Jesus that Mormons, Jehovoh Witness, Hinduism even so called "Christian" churches believes.

So just a question. How do you even know that the Jesus that you believe in is real. How certain are you that when you "die", you will actually go into sleep until you are "called" up by God. How certain are you.

After all, from Bible Study that I had in the past, there is one verse that says that Salvation is almost impossible

"With men it is impossible, but not with God"

So what makes you so confident that you are saved just because you made one sinner's prayer before?

Because for most Christians, when they believe. Life still goes on. It's like "hey I make a confession". Then maybe they go to church for a short while but then they stop but they believe that they will go to heaven just because they once make a confession. But then there is nothing different from them compared to the non Christians. They cursed, they drink etc. So how come they are still confident if they die, they will be going to heaven. Or this confidence is just syok sendiri. That's all.

And the other thing. What makes you think that your bible is the word of God. After all, there are so many different versions. And those versions have differences as even many scholars will say. So how can you tell others that the bible that you are using is perfect when there are so many differences in the different versions.

Looking for a discussion.


This post has been edited by BrookLes: Feb 9 2023, 03:26 PM
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post Feb 9 2023, 03:19 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Feb 9 2023, 08:31 AM)
The Jesus that I know (of the Bible) different from that religion teaches / says this one thing that sets it apart.

Love your enemies pray for those who persecute you.


I think, for those who lived long enough in Christianity will understand this;

The nature of the flesh or carnality, the natural reaction is to strike back when being offended.

The devil love this. The devil is all about destruction (kill, steal & destroy). How many have the devil has instigated people to kill or harm others thinking they're doing God a favor? Even this phrase is recorded in the Bible.
And Yet God tells us to do something that is really mind boggling if not weird.

Why love enemies who persecute or wants to harm you even? 

It caused me to think this God is different from all others.

God has repeated told us, VENGEANCE "BELONGS" to HIM alone.

In overall perspective, it helped me to understand only God is qualified to dispense judgement if not vengeance. We human with limited knowledge who do not know everything hence is utterly unqualified. To be able to dispense judgement, you must know the facts and you must know everything that is going on to the best of your knowledge, else it will be flawed judgement. Only God has that kind of knowledge but a complete one A-Z.

This has given me the perspective the God that I've come to believe in and live in is the right one and different.
*
So if someone raped your kid,but he got hungry and homeless.

You will still shelter him in your kid's room.
prophetjul
post Feb 9 2023, 03:27 PM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Feb 9 2023, 03:15 PM)
I think most people misunderstood my question. But I thought I was pretty clear when I used Islam as an example. I was not just talking about Islam per say.
I was not just talking about the Jesus that Muslims believes per say. I was also talking about the Jesus that Mormons, Jehovoh Witness, Hinduism even so called "Christian" churches believes.

So just a question. How do you even know that the Jesus that you believe in is real. How certain are you that when you "die", you will actually go into sleep until you are "called" up by God. How certain are you.

I believe the 'Jesus' i know is true and real because i take time to study scriptures and ascertain for myself, at the same time believing that God will help me.
i believe that God will not judge me for trying but He will judge me for being lazy and dead spiritually.
So ask me anything specifically about Jesus and i will try to answer.

QUOTE
Because for most Christians, when they believe. Life still goes on. It's like "hey I make a confession". Then maybe they go to church for a short while but then they stop but they believe that they will go to heaven just because they once make a confession. But then there is nothing different from them compared to the non Christians. They cursed, they drink etc. So how come they are still confident if they die, they will be going to heaven. Or this confidence is just syok sendiri. That's all.

That, according to scriptures is 'dead faith'. i believe dead faith is what it is dead, and it will not result in life.
Faith requires obedience. Yes, we will go wrong and sin. But we will still try to be discipline according to God's will.

QUOTE
And the other thing. What makes you think that your bible is the word of God. After all, there are so many different versions. And those versions have differences as even many scholars will say. So how can you tell others that the bible that you are using is perfect when there are so many differences in the different versions.
*
This is the thing. There are not many VERSIONS. But there are many translations. Translations are, translations.
They are not perfect in the minute non fundamental details. However, in the essentials of the faith, they are generally consistent.
So if i had to study a subject, i will try to go back to the original languages that the original texts were written in and study those.
No English or any language will perfectly translate the Hebrew language. There is no possibility for word for word translation.
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post Feb 9 2023, 03:46 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 9 2023, 03:27 PM)
I  believe the 'Jesus' i know is true and real because i take time to study scriptures and ascertain for myself, at the same time believing that God will help me.
i believe that God will not judge me for trying but He will judge me for being lazy and dead spiritually.
So ask me anything specifically about Jesus and i will try to answer.
That, according to scriptures is 'dead faith'. i believe dead faith is what it is dead, and it will not result in life.
Faith requires obedience. Yes, we will go wrong and sin. But we will still try to be discipline according to God's will.
This is the thing. There are not many VERSIONS. But there are many translations. Translations are, translations.
They are not perfect in the minute non fundamental details. However, in the essentials of the faith, they are generally consistent.
So if i had to study a subject, i will try to go back to the original languages that the original texts were written in and study those.
No English or any language will perfectly translate the Hebrew language. There is no possibility for word for word translation.
*
Ok fair enough. So can I say that more then 90% of the Christians out there are probably worshipping the false version since they do not even know about the Jesus they proclaimed?

Secondly, so you think salvation is something that is on going rather then the instant you believed?

Thirdly, so you cannot point towards a bible and say it's god's word then? Or god's word can be imperfect.
Your god is not capable of translating the Bible from Hebrew to English in a perfect manner then. You know in a language that people can actually understand. Not in an ancient Greek where even the Greeks themselves probably will find it difficult to understand.

Why would god only hide his truths in a language that 99% of the people cannot understand. So this god expects us to believe him when he does that?

prophetjul
post Feb 9 2023, 03:54 PM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Feb 9 2023, 03:46 PM)
Ok fair enough. So can I say that more then 90% of the Christians out there are probably worshipping the false version since they do not even know about the Jesus they proclaimed?

Secondly, so you think salvation is something that is on going rather then the instant you believed?

Thirdly, so you cannot point towards a bible and say it's god's word then? Or god's word can be imperfect.
Your god is not capable of translating the Bible from Hebrew to English in a perfect manner then. You know in a language that people can actually understand. Not in an ancient Greek where even the Greeks themselves probably will find it difficult to understand.

Why would god only hide his truths in a language that 99% of the people cannot understand. So this god expects us to believe him when he does that?
*
I cannot judge the 90% that you mention. Only God knows them. I can only say that most will just follow what is taught to them. And often not checking the bible themselves.

2nd: i believe it is ongoing process. That's why Paul warns us of faith shipwreck and it being a long distance race. Discipleship is a life process.

3rd: As i said, we are reading translations and for most fundamentals, they are consistent.
God gave His message in Hebrew. The Jews understand it. biggrin.gif We can also learn.
The most important thing is that God demonstrated everything He mentioned in His word in the Messiah named Jesus.
All the hundreds of prophecies.

He used Israel, the smallest and insignificant nation at the time, to demonstrate His love, power and will.
So He used their language to deliver His message. The message of salvation through His Messiah. This message is the same in all the notable translations.
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post Feb 9 2023, 04:06 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 9 2023, 03:54 PM)
I cannot judge the 90% that you mention. Only God knows them. I can only say that most will just follow what is taught to them. And often not checking the bible themselves.

2nd: i believe it is ongoing process. That's why Paul warns us of faith shipwreck and it being a long distance race. Discipleship is a life process.

3rd: As i said, we are reading translations and for most fundamentals, they are consistent.
God gave His message in Hebrew. The Jews understand it.  biggrin.gif  We can also learn.
The most important thing is that God demonstrated everything He mentioned in His word in the Messiah named Jesus.
All the hundreds of prophecies.

He used Israel, the smallest and insignificant nation at the time, to demonstrate His love, power and will.
So He used their language to deliver His message. The message of salvation through His Messiah. This message is the same in all the notable translations.
*
1st. So you are implying that someone believing in the wrong jesus can be saved. So I guess Muslims, Jehovah Witness, Mormons, Free Masons and Hindus cannot be judged then. And there is no need to tell them about Jesus since they already believe in jesus.
2nd. So Jesus was lying then when He said whoever believed will have eternal live.
3r.d. You have not answered my question then. So is all of the bibles that are imperfect considered god's word then.
Are you sure the message is the same in all translations? For example one translation talks about salvation being instant while the other transactions talk about salvation being an ongoing process like you said. Are you 100% sure that the message is the same in all translations?

And I would like to add something. Why should I trust the bible more then any other religious text then if it's not 100% perfect.
Even Muslims claim that their text is 100% accurate.

You can say that all of the prophecies are fulfilled. But then you cannot say that the Bible is 100% accurate? And a Greek or Hebrew scholar is required in order to tell me the truth? How can I trust this Greek scholar then that has no ulterior motives. Didn't the Bible mentioned before that the Heart is deceitful above all things? So why would I trust a Greek scholar to provide me the Truth then. Because if as you say the Truth is contained in the Greek text, then I have to rely on a Greek scholar to tell me the truth right?

And you still have not answered some of my harder questions.

So the god you believe in did not provide his bible in a way that the public can understand then. Yes or No?

If god wanted the people to know just the fundamentals, why would he provide a bible to do that? Isn't it a waste of time for people to read the bible just to know fundamentals that can be described in a few pages? I would think God wanted the people to know more then just the fundamentals that is why he provided the Bible dun you think? Maybe something slightly "deeper" then the fundamentals?

ok I understand where you are coming from when you are saying translations. So in other words, god did not provide his truth in a language that people can understand then but they have to learn Greek and Hebrew in order to truly read god's word. Is that where you are coming from as well?

This post has been edited by BrookLes: Feb 9 2023, 04:27 PM
prophetjul
post Feb 9 2023, 04:27 PM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Feb 9 2023, 04:06 PM)
1st. So you are implying that someone believing in the wrong jesus can be saved. So I guess Muslims, Jehovah Witness, Mormons, Free Masons and Hindus cannot be judged then. And there is no need to tell them about Jesus since they already believe in jesus.
2nd. So Jesus was lying then when He said whoever believed will have eternal live.
3r.d. You have not answered my question then. So is all of the bibles that are imperfect considered god's word then.
Are you sure the message is the same in all translations? For example one translation talks about salvation being instant while the other transactions talk about salvation being an ongoing process like you said. Are you 100% sure that the message is the same in all translations?
*
1st Read carefully. I cannot judge any of them God does that. You said 90% of CHRSITIANS were worshipping the false version. i was replying to this. And i do not think 90% are worshipping the wrong version! laugh.gif
So what if they think Jesus has blue eyes? Will that bring them to hell? I dont know.

2nd. No. Jesus was not lying. Faith is an ongoing process. You can turn your back on Jesus too. You cannot just take ONE verse and interpret anything.

3rd. All the bibles are imperfect TRANSLATIONS. Yes. I am sure the message of the Messiah is same in most known translations.

QUOTE
For example one translation talks about salvation being instant while the other transactions talk about salvation being an ongoing process like you said.


You seem to make your mind about what you think you know.
Show me the passages on instant salvation. And i will show you passages about faithful obedience to God.
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post Feb 9 2023, 04:28 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 9 2023, 04:27 PM)
1st Read carefully. I cannot judge any of them God does that. You said 90% of CHRSITIANS were worshipping the false version. i was replying to this. And i do not think 90% are worshipping the wrong version!  laugh.gif
So what if they think Jesus has blue eyes? Will that bring them to hell? I dont know.

2nd. No. Jesus was not lying. Faith is an ongoing process. You can turn your back on Jesus too. You cannot just take ONE verse and interpret anything.

3rd. All the bibles are imperfect TRANSLATIONS. Yes. I am sure the message of the Messiah is same in most known translations.
You seem to make your mind about what you think you know.
Show me the passages on instant salvation. And i will show you passages about faithful obedience to God.
*
It's ok.
Case proven.

And aren't you supposed to be the "Christian"?
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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Feb 9 2023, 03:19 PM)
So if someone raped your kid,but he got hungry and homeless.

You will still shelter him in your kid's room.
*
Neither it is right to allow the rapist to continue what he is doing, wouldn't right on his part wouldn't it?

He would be sinning against God to do that.

So how do you balance out? You can bring the person elsewhere to a proper organization to be counselled and fed.
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post Feb 9 2023, 04:37 PM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Feb 9 2023, 04:06 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

And I would like to add something. Why should I trust the bible more then any other religious text then if it's not 100% perfect.
Even Muslims claim that their text is 100% accurate.


It is perfect in it's original texts. Which is something you do not seem to comprehend.
QUOTE
You can say that all of the prophecies are fulfilled. But then you cannot say that the Bible is 100% accurate? And a Greek or Hebrew scholar is required in order to  tell me the truth? How can I trust this Greek scholar then that has no ulterior motives. Didn't the Bible mentioned before that the Heart is deceitful above all things? So why would I trust a Greek scholar to provide me the Truth then. Because if as you say the Truth is contained in the Greek text, then I have to rely on a Greek scholar to tell me the truth right?
Not as if there is only ONE scholar to teach you? The same can be said of the ENGLISH, MALAY, CHINESE Scholars who teaches another person. How can that person trust them?
QUOTE
And you still have not answered some of my harder questions.

So the god you believe in did not provide his bible in a way that the public can understand then. Yes or No?

He has provided in the way He deems fit and right. I understand His message translated in English. And the Chinese understands the message in Chinese.
It may not in the way YOU want it. But it works.
QUOTE
If god wanted the people to know just the fundamentals, why would he provide a bible to do that? Isn't it a waste of time for people to read the bible just to know fundamentals that can be described in a few pages? I would think God wanted the people to know more then just the fundamentals that is why he provided the Bible dun you think? Maybe something slightly "deeper" then the fundamentals?

There are lots of depth in the fundamentals. Who told you in your presumption that it can be described in a few pages?
Presumptous, are you not?
QUOTE
ok I understand where you are coming from when you are saying translations. So in other words, god did not provide his truth in a language that people can understand then but they have to learn Greek and Hebrew in order to truly read god's word. Is that where you are coming from as well?
*
Again. The Jews understood it. We understand it in the English transmitted message. The world understands it in their respective languages. Waht's wrong with that?

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Feb 9 2023, 04:38 PM
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post Feb 9 2023, 04:39 PM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Feb 9 2023, 04:28 PM)
It's ok.
Case proven.

And aren't you supposed to be the "Christian"?
*
And what are going with your multitude of Presumptions?
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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Feb 9 2023, 04:06 PM)
1st. So you are implying that someone believing in the wrong jesus can be saved. So I guess Muslims, Jehovah Witness, Mormons, Free Masons and Hindus cannot be judged then. And there is no need to tell them about Jesus since they already believe in jesus.
2nd. So Jesus was lying then when He said whoever believed will have eternal live.
3r.d. You have not answered my question then. So is all of the bibles that are imperfect considered god's word then.
Are you sure the message is the same in all translations? For example one translation talks about salvation being instant while the other transactions talk about salvation being an ongoing process like you said. Are you 100% sure that the message is the same in all translations?

And I would like to add something. Why should I trust the bible more then any other religious text then if it's not 100% perfect.
Even Muslims claim that their text is 100% accurate.

You can say that all of the prophecies are fulfilled. But then you cannot say that the Bible is 100% accurate? And a Greek or Hebrew scholar is required in order to  tell me the truth? How can I trust this Greek scholar then that has no ulterior motives. Didn't the Bible mentioned before that the Heart is deceitful above all things? So why would I trust a Greek scholar to provide me the Truth then. Because if as you say the Truth is contained in the Greek text, then I have to rely on a Greek scholar to tell me the truth right?

And you still have not answered some of my harder questions.

So the god you believe in did not provide his bible in a way that the public can understand then. Yes or No?

If god wanted the people to know just the fundamentals, why would he provide a bible to do that? Isn't it a waste of time for people to read the bible just to know fundamentals that can be described in a few pages? I would think God wanted the people to know more then just the fundamentals that is why he provided the Bible dun you think? Maybe something slightly "deeper" then the fundamentals?

ok I understand where you are coming from when you are saying translations. So in other words, god did not provide his truth in a language that people can understand then but they have to learn Greek and Hebrew in order to truly read god's word. Is that where you are coming from as well?
*
The top portion classic questions that will ultimately lead to Calvinism vs Arminian. laugh.gif
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post Feb 9 2023, 05:39 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Feb 9 2023, 04:35 PM)
Neither it is right to allow the rapist to continue what he is doing, wouldn't right on his part wouldn't it?

He would be sinning against God to do that.

So how do you balance out? You can bring the person elsewhere to a proper organization to be counselled and fed.
*
I am not talking from the rapist point of view but from the "Christian" who is supposed to be kind to the rapist.
But you still do not get my point.
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post Feb 9 2023, 05:40 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 9 2023, 04:39 PM)
And what are going with your multitude of Presumptions?
*
No point in further discussions at this point but I will just entertain you by replying to your latest reply to me.
I will let the public judge for themselves at this point.
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post Feb 9 2023, 05:45 PM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Feb 9 2023, 05:40 PM)
No point in further discussions at this point but I will just entertain you by replying to your latest reply to me.
I will let the public judge for themselves at this point.
*
Good.
Because their presumptions are getting tiresome.
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post Feb 9 2023, 05:49 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 9 2023, 04:37 PM)
It is perfect in it's original texts. Which is something you do not seem to comprehend.

Not as if there is only ONE scholar to teach you? The same can be said of the ENGLISH, MALAY, CHINESE Scholars who teaches another person. How can that person trust them?

He has provided in the way He deems fit and right.  I understand His message translated in English. And the Chinese understands the message in Chinese.
It may not in the way YOU want it. But it works.

There are lots of depth in the fundamentals. Who told you in your presumption that it can be described in a few pages?
Presumptous, are you not?

Again. The Jews understood it. We understand it in the English transmitted message. The world understands it in their respective languages. Waht's wrong with that?
*
The way you answer my queries, I wonder if an actual unbeliever ask you those questions, what will their conclusion going to be? That Christianity is an unreasonable religion?

And I already answered your part on "perfect in the original text"? Your god is incapable of producing the Truth in the form that most people can understand? Why should people believe in your god then?

At least if there is a perfect form in English and Chinese or in any common language, I do not need a third party to interpret the language for me. So now I am not supposed to trust my own understanding of English or any other languages that I have spoken from? Then how about let's extend it. I cannot trust my thoughts as well since my thoughts were influenced by my education? So how far do you want to do?

And you still have not answered my question then. How can I trust the god that you believe in if He cannot provide His text in a form that most people can understand. See after all these while, you still cannot answer my question. So why continues?

Not a few pages. How about a few hundred pages. See you are already avoiding the main gist towards what I am saying. You are obviously defensive and not worthy of my time anymore

You keep talking about the Jews. When right now it's not about the Jews. See. You are even confused yourself. So why should I trust you in anything.

Point proven.

Like I said. Let the public judge for themselves.


My advice from you. Take your "Christian" blinkers off and see how ridiculous you sound all these while.
Of course. Most Malaysian "Christians" would probably be on your side. They do not even know who their real Christ is.

This post has been edited by BrookLes: Feb 9 2023, 05:54 PM
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post Feb 9 2023, 05:56 PM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Feb 9 2023, 05:49 PM)
The way you answer my queries, I wonder if an actual unbeliever ask you those questions, what will their conclusion going to be? That Christianity is an unreasonable religion?

And I already answered your part on "perfect in the original text"? Your god is incapable of producing the Truth in the form that most people can understand? Why should people believe in your god then?

At least if there is a perfect form in English and Chinese or in any common language, I do not need a third party to interpret the language for me. So now I am not supposed to trust my own understanding of English or any other languages that I have spoken from? Then how about let's extend it. I cannot trust my thoughts as well since my thoughts were influenced by my education? So how far do you want to do?

And you still have not answered my question then. How can I trust the god that you believe in if He cannot provide His text in a form that most people can understand. See after all these while, you still cannot answer my question. So why continues?

Not a few pages. How about a few hundred pages. See you are already avoiding the main gist towards what I am saying. You are obviously defensive and not worthy of my time anymore

You keep talking about the Jews. When right now it's not about the Jews. See. You are even confused yourself. So why should I trust you in anything.

Point proven.

Like I said. Let the public judge for themselves.
My advice from you. Take your "Christian" blinkers off and see how ridiculous you sound all these while.
Of course. Most Malaysian "Christians" would probably be on your side. They do not even know who their real Christ is.
*
Thought you were going to leave it at that. laugh.gif
Your presumptions is tiresome.
Not to mention silly.
If the scriptures did not work, how come the bible is the best seller in history? Not to mention the number of believers whose lives are changed by it.
Presumptuous.
End of. Checking out.
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post Feb 9 2023, 06:00 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 9 2023, 05:56 PM)
Thought you were going to leave it at that.  laugh.gif
Your presumptions is tiresome.
Not to mention silly.
If the scriptures did not work, how come the bible is the best seller in history? Not to mention the number of believers whose lives are changed by it.
Presumptuous.
End of. Checking out.
*
See. You have proven my point again.

I guess you mean the Greek and the Hebrew is the best seller in history right the way you defend them.

Same goes to you as well. If I were making presumptions. How come you cannot handle them properly? But then you are going to assume you did that right?

Sure. They are being changed by the bible even though it's not god's word. Or unless you are implying god's word is not perfect. If it was all about morality, why do you even need the Bible? Any religious text would do right?

You see, the imperfect versions of the bible are no different then other religious text. I can also claim that the other religious text change people as well. So what is your point?

And you are already going away from the main discussion. I thought the discussion was always about whether The English versions of the bible is the word of God given that each version is different from each other. Not on whether the truth is found in Christianity or not. You cannot even be consistent and you want people to trust you.

BTW, I thought your standard of integrity should be higher then mine. Since you claim to be a "Christian"? But looking at your replies, it does not seem that way. I wonder why?

And why am I being presumptive when I am questioning from an outsider point of view

But like I said. Let the public judge for themselves.

This post has been edited by BrookLes: Feb 9 2023, 06:37 PM
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post Feb 9 2023, 06:37 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 9 2023, 03:27 PM)
I  believe the 'Jesus' i know is true and real because i take time to study scriptures and ascertain for myself, at the same time believing that God will help me.
i believe that God will not judge me for trying but He will judge me for being lazy and dead spiritually.
So ask me anything specifically about Jesus and i will try to answer.
That, according to scriptures is 'dead faith'. i believe dead faith is what it is dead, and it will not result in life.
Faith requires obedience. Yes, we will go wrong and sin. But we will still try to be discipline according to God's will.
This is the thing. There are not many VERSIONS. But there are many translations. Translations are, translations.
They are not perfect in the minute non fundamental details. However, in the essentials of the faith, they are generally consistent.
So if i had to study a subject, i will try to go back to the original languages that the original texts were written in and study those.
No English or any language will perfectly translate the Hebrew language. There is no possibility for word for word translation.
*
I myself love all the various different translations of our Holy Bible.
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post Feb 9 2023, 06:47 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 9 2023, 06:37 PM)
I myself love all the various different translations of our Holy Bible.
*
Some people can't understand what are translations. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Feb 9 2023, 06:58 PM
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post Feb 9 2023, 06:50 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 9 2023, 06:47 PM)
Some people can understand what are translations.  biggrin.gif
*
Here is my problem, even with all the various different translations, I still cannot find the translations in contradiction of each other. Maybe I am too dumb. 🙂

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Feb 9 2023, 06:50 PM
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post Feb 9 2023, 06:58 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 9 2023, 06:50 PM)
Here is my problem, even with all the various different translations, I still cannot find the translations in contradiction of each other. Maybe I am too dumb. 🙂
*
Yeah. Some like to see the fault in the trees and missing the forest.
i guess they have an agenda. If i dare say that.
All notable versions have the same message of the divine Messiah known as Jesus.
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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 9 2023, 06:58 PM)
Yeah. Some like to see the fault in the trees and missing the forest.
i guess they have an agenda. If i dare say that.
All notable versions have the same message of the divine Messiah known as Jesus.
*
The modus operandi is to deny the divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. Once that is achieved, everything else is a piece of cake. Since the millstone is already around their neck, it makes no difference to them. Might as well grab others while on their way down.
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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Feb 9 2023, 06:00 PM)
See. You have proven my point again.

I guess you mean the Greek and the Hebrew is the best seller in history right the way you defend them.

Same goes to you as well. If I were making presumptions. How come you cannot handle them properly? But then you are going to assume you did that right?

Sure. They are being changed by the bible even though it's not god's word. Or unless you are implying god's word is not perfect. If it was all about morality, why do you even need the Bible? Any religious text would do right?

You see, the imperfect versions of the bible are no different then other religious text. I can also claim that the other religious text change people as well. So what is your point?

And you are already going away from the main discussion. I thought the discussion was always about whether The English versions of the bible is  the  word of God given that each version is different from each other. Not on whether the truth is found in Christianity or not. You  cannot even be consistent and you want people to trust you.

BTW, I thought your standard of integrity should be higher then mine. Since you claim to be a "Christian"? But looking at your replies, it does not seem that way. I wonder why?

And why am I being presumptive when I am questioning from an outsider point of view

But like I said. Let the public judge for themselves.
*
Seriously, what point do you want to prove here?
Have you done any deep research yourself regarding on your questions?

Regardless of what version of translations, the most important thing is to understand the context, understand the message, and the meaning behind it.

Various translation are available to help people to understand the message and the context of the message.
Even to understand the scriptures will take efforts and time.
Starts with KJV, and if you don't understand, refer to others translation, then go back to KJV and so on.

Start with a prayer to God for understanding and guidance with the help of the Holy Spirit.
Then only everything will fall in to the right places and we'll begin to understand the true message which has been revealed to us through the Holy Spirit of Truth.
All take time and efforts.
Do your research first. If you don't know how or where to start, then ask.
Once you done this, then make your own conclusion.
God gave us "free will" to make own decision, your choice so make a wise one.

Else why Jesus speaks in parables most of the time? - Matt 13:13
John 10:27-28

Through parables, Jesus can communicate with the people who are ready to listen.
God's words are precious and only available to those who wants to sincerely know and seek of Him.

If you're trying to turn conversations into debates, and to win debates, you're wasting your time and other people's time.

"A good story doesn’t mean that everyone will understand."
SUSBrookLes
post Feb 9 2023, 07:51 PM

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QUOTE(Bittz @ Feb 9 2023, 07:32 PM)
Seriously, what point do you want to prove here?
Have you done any deep research yourself regarding on your questions?

Regardless of what version of translations, the most important thing is to understand the context, understand the message, and the meaning behind it.

Various translation are available to help people to understand the message and the context of the message.
Even to understand the scriptures will take efforts and time.
Starts with KJV, and if you don't understand, refer to others translation, then go back to KJV and so on.

Start with a prayer to God for understanding and guidance with the help of the Holy Spirit.
Then only everything will fall in to the right places and we'll begin to understand the true message which has been revealed to us through the Holy Spirit of Truth.
All take time and efforts.
Do your research first. If you don't know how or where to start, then ask.
Once you done this, then make your own conclusion.
God gave us "free will" to make own decision, your choice so make a wise one.

Else why Jesus speaks in parables most of the time? - Matt 13:13
John 10:27-28

Through parables, Jesus can communicate with the people who are ready to listen.
God's words are precious and only available to those who wants to sincerely know and seek of Him.

If you're trying to turn conversations into debates, and to win debates, you're wasting your time and other people's time.

"A good story doesn’t mean that everyone will understand."
*
See prove my point again.
And yes, I am posting as someone from a third party.

You even got the reason as to why Jesus communicate with Parables wrong. So why should I even bother?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

Where did it indicate what you just said
"Through parables, Jesus can communicate with the people who are ready to listen.
God's words are precious and only available to those who wants to sincerely know and seek of Him."
Can you please explain in the context of this passage or you are just talking nonsense?


You just added to what Jesus has said. No wonder you do not understand. I mean how can you understand when you keep on adding your own context to the passage?

Funny also that you say start from the KJV and then if you do not understand go to the other version. This is your attitude when it comes to the Truth huh.

Of course, after this. You are just going to run to others for protection like the others. Expected.

It's always easy to attack the individual as a "gang" just like what the real Jesus experienced.


Also I want to add what someone said
"So what if they think Jesus has blue eyes? Will that bring them to hell? I dont know."

When the discussion was never about this context. It's just amazing how far one can go. No wonder people do not take Christianity seriously.
I mean there is a reason why I was asking about the Jesus of Free Mason, or the Jesus of Islam or the Jesus of Seven Day Adventist. It's not to discuss about Jesus physical appearance especially His eyes.

It really says a lot.

This post has been edited by BrookLes: Feb 9 2023, 08:08 PM
SharpSword
post Feb 9 2023, 09:06 PM

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How to know if the bible is really the word of God? It's like asking how to know if the best nasi kandar is from penang? Or which is the best song? Or the best movie? One can talk and debate in great length about these, of all the possible and different parts and pieces that goes into making a great dish, song or movie but all that will never yield a conclusion until you eat the dish, hear the song or watch the movie.
So too with God's Word. Until you are willing to hear, consider and respond in an honest way to it you will never come to know its authencity. The issue is not whether the versions of the bible are flawless. Rather the issue with man spiritual condition and one being darkness and in need of illumination. Even if God decided to superficially provide humanity with a flawless copy of his word it would not guarantee that every one would understand it correctly or even believe in it. What prevents this is simply term the sinful nature of man. Fallen humanity needs more that a typo error free book of religion. He needs light to overcome the darkness that is in him. Only a work of grace upon the heart of a sinner can bring about illumination and knowledge of the truth. Jesus said " I am the light of the world, he who follows me shall not walk in darkness but have the light of life". Again the apostle John says of Christ "this is the true light that illuminates every man coming into this world".
For other than by the grace of God, a person trying to discover who God is can best be described as a man born blind attempting to describe the nature and character of sunlight to a world full of similar blind people. To such a one I would appeal,.... Allow Jesus to give you sight that you might see that kingdom of God.
Without Christ we would not know God. Without the Bible we could not know about Christ what more to follow him?
Thus you can't never know the Bible to be from God until you are willing to first consider it. And if after considering it you still could not believe that it is truly God's word..... than I really feel sorry for you, that you could not attain unto the faith that millions were able to come to. And what remains to be said, I do hope you find rest and peace for your soul in your ongoing journey. Shalom

This post has been edited by SharpSword: Feb 10 2023, 05:14 AM
Bittz
post Feb 9 2023, 09:43 PM

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» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



I'm not sure what's your point tbh?
You're not being clear about it. Just straight to the point. I can't read your thoughts.

And let me clear here about having different version of translation; it is a method of "reference" to help me to understand words by words and the meaning of words/scriptures.
Nothing funny. I'm just sharing one of my methods of reading the Bible. Different people, different way of study/learn.

"You even got the reason as to why Jesus communicate with Parables wrong. So why should I even bother?"
Please read my post again and tell me what are the "wrong" part you're talking about?
I've included the Bible verse and I've linked it as well.
All you have to do is just click it and read to understand.

To sum it up, if you don't understand and have no intention to even try to understand what's being communicated to you, you don't and will not understand.
Plain simple, no nonsense at all.

So why are you here at the first place if you're already harden your heart?
If you're trying to troll around, you're really wasting your time and other people's time, and wasting post.

Of course, after this. You are just going to run to others for protection like the others. Expected.
Protection from what?
The only protection I have is from my Father in Heaven.

Anyway, I've no intention of "gang up" anyone here, I have better things to do.
I'm new to the thread and I'm here to learn from others about their sharing and thoughts, that's all.
I have a long way to go.

So you can keep your assumption to yourself.
I don't know you, you don't know me. Let's keep it that way. Easy.

If you have any traumas or bad experiences, share it here. It's a forum.
If you get help from others, be grateful, else just chill and move on.

No wonder people do not take Christianity seriously.

I do take it very seriously. Do you?

"A good story doesn’t mean that everyone will understand."
desmond2020
post Feb 9 2023, 09:46 PM

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Ayam smells penguins reincarnated here.


This gonna be good.

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Feb 9 2023, 09:49 PM
SUSBrookLes
post Feb 9 2023, 10:01 PM

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QUOTE(Bittz @ Feb 9 2023, 09:43 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

I'm not sure what's your point tbh?
You're not being clear about it. Just straight to the point. I can't read your thoughts.

And let me clear here about having different version of translation; it is a method of "reference" to help me to understand words by words and the meaning of words/scriptures.
Nothing funny. I'm just sharing one of my methods of reading the Bible. Different people, different way of study/learn.

"You even got the reason as to why Jesus communicate with Parables wrong. So why should I even bother?"
Please read my post again and tell me what are the "wrong" part you're talking about?
I've included the Bible verse and I've linked it as well.
All you have to do is just click it and read to understand.

To sum it up, if you don't understand and have no intention to even try to understand what's being communicated to you, you don't and will not understand.
Plain simple, no nonsense at all.

So why are you here at the first place if you're already harden your heart?
If you're trying to troll around, you're really wasting your time and other people's time, and wasting post.

Of course, after this. You are just going to run to others for protection like the others. Expected.
Protection from what?
The only protection I have is from my Father in Heaven.

Anyway, I've no intention of "gang up" anyone here, I have better things to do.
I'm new to the thread and I'm here to learn from others about their sharing and thoughts, that's all.
I have a long way to go.

So you can keep your assumption to yourself.
I don't know you, you don't know me. Let's keep it that way. Easy.

If you have any traumas or bad experiences, share it here. It's a forum.
If you get help from others, be grateful, else just chill and move on.

No wonder people do not take Christianity seriously.

I do take it very seriously. Do you?

"A good story doesn’t mean that everyone will understand."
*
It's funny you wrote everything without tagging me.

Oh well

prophetjul
post Feb 9 2023, 10:04 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Feb 9 2023, 09:46 PM)
Ayam smells penguins reincarnated here.
This gonna be good.
*
Aahhhh.
Bittz
post Feb 9 2023, 10:06 PM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Feb 9 2023, 10:01 PM)
It's funny you wrote everything without tagging me.

Oh well
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Chill lah
SUSBrookLes
post Feb 9 2023, 11:56 PM

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In the end. Someone there is no different from the Catholics.
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 10 2023, 08:12 AM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Feb 9 2023, 05:39 PM)
I am not talking from the rapist point of view but from the "Christian" who is supposed to be kind to the rapist.
But you still do not get my point.
*
laugh.gif This is the POV from Christian perspective. Sin is wrong. What rapist do are wrong. Loving them doesn't mean allowing them to continue to do evil.

It would not be love to kindly allow them to do wrong against others.

People have this misconception about loving enemies in this context.
kevinc
post Feb 10 2023, 08:34 AM

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*eat popcorn
lol
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 10 2023, 08:40 AM

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You know guys, just a reminder.

We are called to be at peace with everyone whenever possible. Don't get riled up if someone has a differing opinion against yours.

Doesn't matter if that person is a Christian, Atheist, whoever it is.

You already know your own faith in The Lord, let it not be shaken because you know you have tasted the Lord and He is Good. If the person don't agree with your POV, let it be lah.

Your have your journey still, the other person his. Because there is a difference of level of understanding, at times opinions hard to reconcile to agreement.

We should not get into the mode of I'm right, you're wrong, I will argue until you see you are wrong. This is what the spiritual enemies want. Because it cause provocation, lack of peace, anger even. When you detect the works of enemy, you should stop.

You also know there is a blindness executed by the enemy, always remember this to help you understand, this hindrance is what is causing the conflict.

The only person who can change the opinion of people is God and God alone. He has that eternal strength & endurance, we don't. We get worn out.

Peace Ya'll.
kevinc
post Feb 10 2023, 09:00 AM

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sure got some triple-S around. Stir Shit Sticks
lol
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 10 2023, 09:42 AM

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The Bible is about Jesus Christ, Yes really!

Luke 24:27 (KJV) - And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


When Christ said this, it was a journey on the Road to Emmaus. What is the significance? The people there knew, Christ has just died but they didn't recognize him resurrected.

They thought everything was lost, everything gone down the drain with that death. Everything they hope for, DIED. It's like you hope so much for a possible change of power in Govt but when the opposing faction won, your hope died.

Yes that feeling. The funny thing is, instead of revealing himself to the couple walking with Him so as to revive their hope, He rather expound on scripture.

Beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, YET they are all concerning Jesus Christ! Keep this in mind.

Now here is the key revelation. The couple said these word;

"Were not our hearts burning within us as He spoke with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?" Remember they didn't recognize who He was but their hearts was being lit as Scripture was being expounded to them concerning Christ. The hearts burning here refers to being ignited. It takes passion or interest to drive towards an objective. It's akin to getting excited filled with hope.

Rather than allowing that couple to see him physically, Christ wanted them to understand Him in scripture.

As we know the Old Testament talks about a lot of things, ceremonial laws, birth of Isaac, Exodus to read sea, etc. Really many things.

With that being said. If the couple could have their hearts burning through understanding of scripture, so can we today. And I believe the key focus is to discover Christ in scripture, doesn't matter if it's NT or OT. All of them is really about Christ anyway.

What is the significance of discovering Christ in scripture? The couple could vividly remember this about Christ in verse 19 "This Man....powerful in speech and action before God and all the people."

The word of God has power to change life and circumstances. The Word of God is Christ himself.....who has divine power to deliver and to give salvation in your life.


It is to your benefit, to read as much and to discover as much as possible and all that you can when you are going through some kind of valleys in your life. But remember look for Christ in God's word in your reading.

I can give you one example. The sacrifice of Issac on wood on the Altar...is a picture of Christ. When you begin to meditate on it, you'll realize how good God is. He doesn't want your sacrifice, He wants you to look to His Son for atonement of your sins. The moment you realize all your sins have been atoned for and that you are righteous by faith and then you remember the prayer of a righteous man avails much....You get the idea.

Hope this devotion helps you. God Bless.





TLIMS P
post Feb 10 2023, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Feb 9 2023, 04:15 PM)
I think most people misunderstood my question. But I thought I was pretty clear when I used Islam as an example. I was not just talking about Islam per say.
I was not just talking about the Jesus that Muslims believes per say. I was also talking about the Jesus that Mormons, Jehovoh Witness, Hinduism even so called "Christian" churches believes.

So just a question. How do you even know that the Jesus that you believe in is real. How certain are you that when you "die", you will actually go into sleep until you are "called" up by God. How certain are you.

After all, from Bible Study that I had in the past, there is one verse that says that Salvation is almost impossible

"With men it is impossible, but not with God"

So what makes you so confident that you are saved just because you made one sinner's prayer before?

Because for most Christians, when they believe. Life still goes on. It's like "hey I make a confession". Then maybe they go to church for a short while but then they stop but they believe that they will go to heaven just because they once make a confession. But then there is nothing different from them compared to the non Christians. They cursed, they drink etc. So how come they are still confident if they die, they will be going to heaven. Or this confidence is just syok sendiri. That's all.

And the other thing. What makes you think that your bible is the word of God. After all, there are so many different versions. And those versions have differences as even many scholars will say. So how can you tell others that the bible that you are using is perfect when there are so many differences in the different versions.

Looking for a discussion.
*
For Christians, our source and guidance comes from the Holy Bible. Any other books, religious teacher or prophet that contradicts the Holy Bible, we will consider it false teachings.

For Christians, our core believes are,
- Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God.
- Christ is the Messiah and saviour of mankind as promised and foretold in the old testament.
- that Christ was crucified on the cross of Calvary and He arose on the third day. This demonstrates that Christ defeated death which until today no man or religious teacher has demonstrated.
- the many miracles that Christ have performed during His ministry on earth. Such as healing the sick, resurrecting the dead and many more.
- Believers must believe and apply the blood of Christ in order to gain forgiveness of sins.

Any other books or individuals that contradicts our core believes are considered false. Only through Jesus Christ alone you will gain eternal life in heaven as promised in the Holy Bible.

Believing in Moses freeing the Hebrews from slavery or Jesus as a good man and messenger of God is not enough. Our covenant is in the blood of the perfect lamb Jesus Christ. There is no other way to heaven except through the blood of Jesus Christ.

No other religion emphasize on the blood except Christianity. Other religion says you must do good to make it to heaven. Christianity is the opposite and claimed that no amount of good works will save you. You can give all your money to charity or donate one of your kidney to a person in need. Still you will end up in hell if you do not acknowledge that Christ is the Son of the living God and that He sheds His blood on the cross so that we can be saved.

Men think that as long as their good works is more than their bad, they will be able to enter heaven. This is very wrong thinking and teaching.

Imagine if a heart surgeon drive recklessly and cause the death of another person. He goes up to the judge and tells the judge to set him free as he has save many lives as a surgeon. The surgeon thinks that by saving many lives it is ok to take away just one life in return for his freedom. If the judge listen to the surgeon and sets him free, what is your opinion of the judge? Would you think highly of such judge?

God is the perfect judge. Every sin or crime committed, SOMEONE has to pay the price. The Bible teaches clearly that all have sin and fall short of the glory of God. This means no man is perfect and men CANNOT atone for their sins let alone the sins of the world. Only Jesus Christ being the perfect sacrifice can offer Himself to take the penalty for the sins of humanity.

It is very important to grasp the basic meaning of Christianity. If you apply the blood of Christ in your life than you are be safe. This is the promise that the Holy Bible gives. Only by faith in Christ. If you don't believe then you can continue doing charity and good works. At the end of your life, your work is NOT perfect in the eyes of God as no man is perfect. Only Christ is. You can tell God how much you have donated or many hours you spend in an orphanage home, but men will never be able to meet God's perfect standard.

But as Christians, we must change our ways once we embrace the teachings of Christ. This means to change from our past life and to a new life under Christ. If you do criminal activity to get rich then you should stop it completely. If you cheat your customer just to earn more money, then you should stop doing it. If you hate you boss before this and always thinking or hurting him then you should stop thinking about it. If you're an alcoholic before this then you should stop doing it.

Its not easy. That is why we must constantly read the Bible and seek the help of the Holy Spirit. Try to understand what is God's plan for us.
SUSBrookLes
post Feb 10 2023, 05:34 PM

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QUOTE(TLIMS @ Feb 10 2023, 12:45 PM)
For Christians, our source and guidance comes from the Holy Bible. Any other books, religious teacher or prophet that contradicts the Holy Bible, we will consider it false teachings.

For Christians, our core believes are,
- Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God.
- Christ is the Messiah and saviour of mankind as promised and foretold in the old testament.
- that Christ was crucified on the cross of Calvary and He arose on the third day. This demonstrates that Christ defeated death which until today no man or religious teacher has demonstrated.
- the many miracles that Christ have performed during His ministry on earth. Such as healing the sick, resurrecting the dead and many more.
- Believers must believe and apply the blood of Christ in order to gain forgiveness of sins.

Any other books or individuals that contradicts our core believes are considered false. Only through Jesus Christ alone you will gain eternal life in heaven as promised in the Holy Bible.

Believing in Moses freeing the Hebrews from slavery or Jesus as a good man and messenger of God is not enough. Our covenant is in the blood of the perfect lamb Jesus Christ. There is no other way to heaven except through the blood of Jesus Christ.

No other religion emphasize on the blood except Christianity. Other religion says you must do good to make it to heaven. Christianity is the opposite and claimed that no amount of good works will save you. You can give all your money to charity or donate one of your kidney to a person in need. Still you will end up in hell if you do not acknowledge that Christ is the Son of the living God and that He sheds His blood on the cross so that we can be saved.

Men think that as long as their good works is more than their bad, they will be able to enter heaven. This is very wrong thinking and teaching.

Imagine if a heart surgeon drive recklessly and cause the death of another person. He goes up to the judge and tells the judge to set him free as he has save many lives as a surgeon. The surgeon thinks that by saving many lives it is ok to take away just one life in return for his freedom. If the judge listen to the surgeon and sets him free, what is your opinion of the judge? Would you think highly of such judge?

God is the perfect judge. Every sin or crime committed, SOMEONE has to pay the price. The Bible teaches clearly that all have sin and fall short of the glory of God. This means no man is perfect and men CANNOT atone for their sins let alone the sins of the world. Only Jesus Christ being the perfect sacrifice can offer Himself to take the penalty for the sins of humanity.

It is very important to grasp the basic meaning of Christianity. If you apply the blood of Christ in your life than you are be safe. This is the promise that the Holy Bible gives. Only by faith in Christ. If you don't believe then you can continue doing charity and good works. At the end of your life, your work is NOT perfect in the eyes of God as no man is perfect. Only Christ is. You can tell God how much you have donated or many hours you spend in an orphanage home, but men will never be able to meet God's perfect standard.

But as Christians, we must change our ways once we embrace the teachings of Christ. This means to change from our past life and to a new life under Christ. If you do criminal activity to get rich then you should stop it completely. If you cheat your customer just to earn more money, then you should stop doing it. If you hate you boss before this and always thinking or hurting him then you should stop thinking about it. If you're an alcoholic before this then you should stop doing it.

Its not easy. That is why we must constantly read the Bible and seek the help of the Holy Spirit. Try to understand what is God's plan for us.
*
You miss the point again. But I will pm you if you allow.

I dun mind spending time talking to you. But I dun want to just pm you and just get rejected out of a sudden.

But you are pretty near the Truth compared to that prophetjul guy for sure.

Your response to this post will determine how credible you really are. At least to me. I mean write so much and yet that is all you can do, then what you have written is a waste of time. Dun you think?

This post has been edited by BrookLes: Feb 11 2023, 12:55 AM
prophetjul
post Feb 10 2023, 05:42 PM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Feb 10 2023, 05:34 PM)
You miss the point again. But I will pm you if you allow.

I dun mind spending time talking to you. But I dun want to just pm you and just get rejected out of a sudden.

But you are pretty near the Truth compared to that prophetjul guy for sure.
*
And why am i so far from the Truth? laugh.gif
SUSBrookLes
post Feb 10 2023, 10:23 PM

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Looking at how fast he replies even though I did not tag him.

Looks like someone does not even have that peace that surpassed understanding.

And he seem to be worse then before. At least before the pandemic I would have a little respect for him. But now. No.

I remember this guy would at least block someone who is unreasonable and at least really not reply directly to a person who he has conflict with but now he seems to have behavior similar to another person in this thread. I guess it probably means that he really thinks I am "easy" meat and not very "unreasonable" that he has to "bully" me together with another person. At least in the past, he does not rely on "bullying" tactics.

It's that the Holy Ghost leading him to be worse?

I wonder why?

But speaking about prophecy. He really fulfils it.


This post has been edited by BrookLes: Feb 11 2023, 12:52 AM
SharpSword
post Feb 11 2023, 09:21 AM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Feb 10 2023, 10:23 PM)
Looking at how fast he replies even though I did not tag him.

Looks like someone does not even have that peace that surpassed understanding.

And he seem to be worse then before. At least before the pandemic I would have a little respect for him. But now. No.

I remember this guy would at least block someone who is unreasonable and at least really not reply directly to a person who he has conflict with but now he seems to have behavior similar to another person in this thread. I guess it probably means that he really thinks I am "easy" meat and not very "unreasonable" that he has to "bully" me together with another person. At least in the past, he does not rely on "bullying" tactics.

It's that the Holy Ghost leading him to be worse?


I wonder why?

But speaking about prophecy. He really fulfils it.
*
Relaxlah friend no need to get carried away. He is also a sinner saved by grace and prone to mistake and failure.We are all still learning. He was just trying to answer your question. Maybe he misread the intentions behind your line of questioning and "reacted".
Anyway I hope by now you have gotten some answers and I hope you will find grace to know who the true Jesus is. Shalom.
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post Feb 11 2023, 10:37 AM

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Jesus Christ wants to be savior, not as an example, teacher or prophet PART 1

1 Timothy 4:10 (NIV) - That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

The meaning of savior is one who saves others. And I'll come straight to the point, Christ wants to be a "complete" savior, not a partial one. It's either He saves you completely or you do it yourself.
There is no God do his part, you do your part. The only part on you is your faith ie believe. Not doing. God would not have it.

Where do I base this theology from?

Romans 11:6 (NIV) - And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

The word "work" in Greek "Ergon" means the following;
work, task, employment; a deed, action; that which is wrought or made, a work.

So it's not just charity work but any "action". Including your performances to God.

Because if you have your part then according to Romans 11 verse 6, grace would no longer be grace.

Grace = Unearned, Unmerited favor of God. Something given to you without your effort or merit. If you think you have your "action" part then you will contradict entire

QUOTE
Romans 4:1-5 (NIV) - Abraham Justified by Faith

1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” a

4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.


Read this verse 5 over and over again until it becomes a revelation to your spirit and your heart.

However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.


I underlined the word trust. That is Faith. No action of yours is involved, neither permitted in this verse.

STOP! Think for a moment here. It would make MUCH SENSE to say; God justify the Godly. Wouldn't it? Well for sure!

But why say God justify the "UNGODLY"????? I submit to you, even after being saved, you will do some ungodly things and I don't mean to discourage or discredit you. I'm talking reality. Talking about real Christian life processes.

God justify the Ungodly's faith. Think about that. Let this sink in.

There are very few preaching/teaching in churches on this because they are afraid people will misunderstand thinking it will lead to licentious lifestyle. So I continue to be ungodly therefore I can be credited righteousness. Same argument; Let us sin that grace may abound. (Romans 6:1)

These are very corrupted thinking if not insincere. At the heart of it, you don't trust God completely, you need your own works or effort for partial insurance for Salvation.

No Friend. You need to come to a place of vulnerability and trust God completely of what He said. No doing of yours...IE your obedience will merit you for Salvation. You can self justify and say it's a "response to faith" you can use whatever words but at the core of it, this theology does not solve this problem: you know you're going to heaven because you "acted" right before God. And that is "Works" my friend.

What about "we are God's workmanship" verse and what about "Faith without works is dead"? Many more, I'll address them in Part 2. In part 2, I will address first on "carrying your cross, hate your father, mother, cost of discipleship" arguments.

Suffice for now Grace is what saves you, Grace is what will bring you Home.

God Bless.



























prophetjul
post Feb 11 2023, 11:49 AM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Feb 10 2023, 10:23 PM)
Looking at how fast he replies even though I did not tag him.

Looks like someone does not even have that peace that surpassed understanding.

And he seem to be worse then before. At least before the pandemic I would have a little respect for him. But now. No.

I remember this guy would at least block someone who is unreasonable and at least really not reply directly to a person who he has conflict with but now he seems to have behavior similar to another person in this thread. I guess it probably means that he really thinks I am "easy" meat and not very "unreasonable" that he has to "bully" me together with another person. At least in the past, he does not rely on "bullying" tactics.

It's that the Holy Ghost leading him to be worse?

I wonder why?

But speaking about prophecy. He really fulfils it.
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You remind me of the penguin. laugh.gif desmond2020
Judgemental as hell.
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post Feb 11 2023, 01:44 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Feb 11 2023, 10:37 AM)
Jesus Christ wants to be savior, not as an example, teacher or prophet PART 1

1 Timothy 4:10 (NIV) - That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

The meaning of savior is one who saves others. And I'll come straight to the point, Christ wants to be a "complete" savior, not a partial one. It's either He saves you completely or you do it yourself.
There is no God do his part, you do your part. The only part on you is your faith ie believe. Not doing. God would not have it.

Where do I base this theology from?

Romans 11:6 (NIV) - And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

The word "work" in Greek "Ergon" means the following;
work, task, employment; a deed, action; that which is wrought or made, a work.

So it's not just charity work but any "action". Including your performances to God.

Because if you have your part then according to Romans 11 verse 6, grace would no longer be grace.

Grace = Unearned, Unmerited favor of God. Something given to you without your effort or merit. If you think you have your "action" part then you will contradict entire
Read this verse 5 over and over again until it becomes a revelation to your spirit and your heart.

However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.


I underlined the word trust. That is Faith. No action of yours is involved, neither permitted in this verse.

STOP! Think for a moment here. It would make MUCH SENSE to say; God justify the Godly. Wouldn't it? Well for sure!

But why say God justify the "UNGODLY"????? I submit to you, even after being saved, you will do some ungodly things and I don't mean to discourage or discredit you. I'm talking reality. Talking about real Christian life processes.

God justify the Ungodly's faith. Think about that. Let this sink in.

There are very few preaching/teaching in churches on this because they are afraid people will misunderstand thinking it will lead to licentious lifestyle. So I continue to be ungodly therefore I can be credited righteousness. Same argument; Let us sin that grace may abound. (Romans 6:1)

These are very corrupted thinking if not insincere. At the heart of it, you don't trust God completely, you need your own works or effort for partial insurance for Salvation.

No Friend. You need to come to a place of vulnerability and trust God completely of what He said. No doing of yours...IE your obedience will merit you for Salvation. You can self justify and say it's a "response to faith" you can use whatever words but at the core of it, this theology does not solve this problem: you know you're going to heaven because you "acted" right before God. And that is "Works" my friend.

What about "we are God's workmanship" verse and what about "Faith without works is dead"? Many more, I'll address them in Part 2. In part 2, I will address first on "carrying your cross, hate your father, mother, cost of discipleship" arguments.

Suffice for now Grace is what saves you, Grace is what will bring you Home.

God Bless.

*
Can't wait for part 2 rclxms.gif
Thank you. thumbup.gif

SharpSword
post Feb 11 2023, 05:48 PM

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What is faith? How is faith define? How do you know if you possess faith the Bible speaks of?
prophetjul
post Feb 11 2023, 08:39 PM

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QUOTE(SharpSword @ Feb 11 2023, 05:48 PM)
What is faith? How is faith define? How do you know if you possess faith the Bible speaks of?
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Faith is PERFORMANCE! laugh.gif

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:

20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
SharpSword
post Feb 11 2023, 09:13 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 11 2023, 08:39 PM)
Faith is PERFORMANCE!  laugh.gif

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:

20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
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Cool...... Heb11:17 by faith Abraham offered up Isaac.
Heb11;7 by faith Noah moved with godly fear and build the ark.
This is a difficult question.

prophetjul
post Feb 12 2023, 07:37 AM

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QUOTE(SharpSword @ Feb 11 2023, 09:13 PM)
Cool...... Heb11:17  by faith Abraham offered up Isaac.
Heb11;7  by faith Noah moved with godly fear and build the ark.
This is a difficult question.
*
Faith demands action. The word faith in Hebrew is a an active.
The Hebrew word emunah (אמונה, pronounced “eh-moo-nah”)
This is important because the Western concept of faith places the action on the one you have faith in, such as "faith in God".
This is passive ascendence.
But, the Hebrew word אמונה emunah places the action on the one who "carries out their Faith". It is not knowing that God will act, but rather I will do what I can to “carry out my Faith” in God.

That is the reason James says:

QUOTE
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

King James Version (KJV)

SharpSword
post Feb 12 2023, 07:59 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 12 2023, 07:37 AM)
Faith demands action. The word faith in Hebrew is a an active.
The Hebrew word emunah (אמונה, pronounced “eh-moo-nah”)
This is important because the Western concept of faith places the action on the one you have faith in, such as "faith in God".
This is passive ascendence.
But, the Hebrew word אמונה emunah places the action on the one who "carries out their Faith". It is not knowing that God will act, but rather I will do what I can to “carry out my Faith” in God.

That is the reason James says:
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Wow. Good that you are diligent to research the Hebrew. A very useful person to know.
It's obvious there is a polemic on the definition and understanding of the concept of faith when we look AT Paul's pov and James pov.
I think they are both looking at the same thing but from different vantage points.
So there is a danger we oversimplify it and swing to one extreme.
We should note that Paul is writing from the context of the apostle to the gentiles. At that time there was influence creeping into the new gentile church from Judaism and his writing was intended to stem this.
James makes an intriguing point. The devil also believe but tremble. So when we talk about believe we need to qualify it.
I wonder if James wrote the epistle in response to Paul's overzealous views?

This post has been edited by SharpSword: Feb 12 2023, 08:03 AM
prophetjul
post Feb 12 2023, 08:36 AM

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QUOTE(SharpSword @ Feb 12 2023, 07:59 AM)
Wow. Good that you are diligent to research the Hebrew. A very useful person to know.
It's obvious there is a polemic on the definition and understanding of the concept of faith when we look AT Paul's pov and James pov.
I think they are both looking at the same thing but from different vantage points.
So there is a danger we oversimplify it and swing to one extreme.
We should note that Paul is writing from the context of the apostle to the gentiles. At that time there was influence creeping into the new gentile church from Judaism and his writing was intended to stem this.
James makes an intriguing point. The devil also believe but tremble. So when we talk about believe we need to qualify it.
I wonder if James wrote the epistle in response to Paul's overzealous views?
*
i think the modern Christian is affected by the following:

a) Reading and interpreting scriptures only in English
b) Viewing them through a modern worldview
c) Affected by Luther's Sola Fide. There is no Faith alone in scripture. Only Faith alone line is refuting it: James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Paul's understanding have been consistent with the Jewish ways.
I would not say Judaism perse without understanding the difference Judaism of those days and present. Jesus was practising Judaism of those days.
However, due to Jesus, the rabbinic Judaism of present is different from that of those days. Many blocks were placed by the pharisees to ward off the Messianic claims of Jesus.
Did you know that the early Jews already believed in the 2nd divine person of God?
The early Ararmaic Targums attest to that.

Roman Catholic
post Feb 12 2023, 11:56 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 12 2023, 08:36 AM)
i think the modern Christian is affected by the following:

a) Reading and interpreting scriptures only in English
b) Viewing them through a modern worldview
c) Affected by Luther's Sola Fide. There is no Faith alone in scripture. Only Faith alone line is refuting it: James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Paul's understanding have been consistent with the Jewish ways.
I would not say Judaism perse without understanding the difference Judaism of those days and present. Jesus was practising Judaism of those days.
However, due to Jesus, the rabbinic Judaism of present is different from that of those days. Many blocks were placed by the pharisees to ward off the Messianic claims of Jesus.
Did you know that the early Jews already believed in the 2nd divine person of God?
The early Ararmaic Targums attest to that.
*
When you say that modern Christians are affected by reading and interpreting scriptures in English language ONLY, is that a positive (understand) or a negative (don't understand) ?
prophetjul
post Feb 12 2023, 01:14 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 12 2023, 11:56 AM)
When you say that modern Christians are affected by reading and interpreting scriptures in English language ONLY, is that a positive (understand) or a negative (don't understand) ?
*
Negative. Since the scriptures were written in Hebrew and with a Jewish worldview.
Therefore, you get many funny doctrines due to different language understanding and worldviews.
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post Feb 12 2023, 03:33 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 12 2023, 01:14 PM)
Negative. Since the scriptures were written in Hebrew and with a Jewish worldview.
Therefore, you get many funny doctrines due to different language understanding and worldviews.
*
Ok so let me try to get this straight. A proper understanding of scriptures can only come from an individual who has training or knowledge both in the Hebrew language and also an understanding about Jewish faith & their worldviews ?

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Feb 12 2023, 04:01 PM
prophetjul
post Feb 12 2023, 05:04 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 12 2023, 03:33 PM)
Ok so let me try to get this straight. A proper understanding of scriptures can only come from an individual who has training or knowledge both in the Hebrew language and also an understanding about Jewish faith & their worldviews ?
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God has chosen to reveal His will and purpose of Messiah through the nation of Israel.
His scriptures is communicated through the use of Hebrew in The OT. If one has no understanding of this scriptures properly, how does one identify His Messiah?

You will be surprised how much we miss out on the depth of understanding the OT without a true knowledge of Hebrew.


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post Feb 12 2023, 05:09 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 12 2023, 05:04 PM)
God has chosen to reveal His will and purpose of Messiah through the nation of Israel.
His scriptures is communicated through the use of Hebrew in The OT. If one has no understanding of this scriptures properly, how does one identify His Messiah?

You will be surprised how much we miss out on the depth of understanding the OT without a true knowledge of Hebrew.
*
Oh I see, it's about the OT.

Ok what about the NT ? Will the modern Christian still be impacted negatively or positively on trying to study and understand the NT ?
prophetjul
post Feb 12 2023, 05:21 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 12 2023, 05:09 PM)
Oh I see, it's about the OT.

Ok what about the NT ? Will the modern Christian still be impacted negatively or positively on trying to study and understand the NT ?
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The OT forms the foundation for the NT.
Therefore, it is good to understand the OT before the NT.
Even when Jesus in his dialogues, they are conversed in Hebrew/Aramaic with lots of Jewish idioms.
How will we understand Him if we do not know these?

Although Paul wrote in Greek, his mindset is predominantly Jewish.

Reading English translation alone and thinking with a modern mindset and world view will surely mislead one.
prophetjul
post Feb 12 2023, 05:33 PM

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An example: Binding and Loosing

In Matthew’s Gospel Jesus said to his disciple Peter, “I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” (Matt 16:19). A couple of chapters later he said very similar words to his other disciples (Mat 18:18).

What are the most common explanations and teachings about these “binding and loosing” verses that one hears today? Most people assume that they have something to do with spiritual warfare and binding the devil. Indeed, the surrounding context is about disciple’s authority, only the devil is not involved here.

In reality, binding and loosing are known technical legal expressions in the ancient Jewish world. “To bind” is to restrict, to confine, to limit and in a legal sense “to forbid something”. On the opposite side “to loose” is to unbind, to untie, to free, to release which in a legal sense means “to permit something”.


Here is an example from the first-century Jewish historian Flavius Josephus. He writes that under queen Alexandra of Jerusalem, the Pharisees “became the administrators of all public affairs, empowered to banish and readmit whom they pleased, as well as to loose and to bind”. (Jewish War 1:111). Josephus said that the Pharisees had the authority “to loose and to bind” and no, not demons or Satan.

When Jesus used this terminology in the Gospels, he did not speak about prayer or spiritual warfare either. The context is legal and the terms should be interpreted through first-century Jewish context. Just like the Pharisees in Josephus’s quote, the disciples were given a right to legislate, a right to make rules and norms, allowing and forbidding things in their own community. And that is binding and loosing first century’s style.

https://weekly.israelbiblecenter.com/bindin...-century-style/
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post Feb 12 2023, 05:53 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 12 2023, 05:21 PM)
The OT forms the foundation for the NT.
Therefore, it is good to understand the OT before the NT.
Even when Jesus in his dialogues, they are conversed in Hebrew/Aramaic with lots of Jewish idioms.
How will we understand Him if we do not know these?

Although Paul wrote in Greek, his mindset is predominantly Jewish.

Reading English translation alone and thinking with a modern mindset and world view will surely mislead one.
*
Ok I know completely nothing about the Hebrew language nor the Jewish faith or their worldviews, so chances I am highly misled. Got it.

I am just a laity and was a lector for today's morning mass Ecc 15:15-20 and the priest was a new guy who had been transferred to our church and this morning he presided it. I understood everything he mentioned during the sermon, which frankly is the best sermon I have heard for a long time. However there was 1 part which I did not understand when the priest said this "Jesus's Sermon on the Mount is weird." He was referring to our Lord teachings especially the Beautitudes.

To be ordained as a priest, one would have to pass all the studies and found to be a sane mind, correct ? I presume that there they would have studied Hebrew language or even the Jewish faith and traditions etc to have a better grasp on the issue. Basically they like you and many here, would know more than an nobody like me.

My question is what is weird about Jesus's teachings on true happiness ? Do you find anything weird too about the Sermon on the Mount ?

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Feb 12 2023, 05:55 PM
prophetjul
post Feb 12 2023, 06:18 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 12 2023, 05:53 PM)
Ok I know completely nothing about the Hebrew language nor the Jewish faith or their worldviews, so chances I am highly misled. Got it.

I am just a laity and was a lector for today's morning mass Ecc 15:15-20 and the priest was a new guy who had been transferred to our church and this morning he presided it. I understood everything he mentioned during the sermon, which frankly is the best sermon I have heard for a long time. However there was 1 part which I did not understand when the priest said this "Jesus's Sermon on the Mount is weird." He was referring to our Lord teachings especially the Beautitudes.

To be ordained as a priest, one would have to pass all the studies and found to be a sane mind, correct ? I presume that there they would have studied Hebrew language or even the Jewish faith and traditions etc to have a better grasp on the issue. Basically they like you and many here, would know more than an nobody like me.

My question is what is weird about Jesus's teachings on true happiness ? Do you find anything weird too about the Sermon on the Mount ?
*
I would imagine it so since you are in the Roman institution.
Many pagan practices have infiltrated that institution unfortunately.
And many seminaries do NOT teach Hebrew. My guess is that the Roman Church uses Latin instead.

i am also a nobody on Jewish understanding as far as theology is concerned. laugh.gif
Long way to go.

On the Beatitudes, this may help.

https://www.hebrew4christians.com/Scripture...beatitudes.html

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post Feb 12 2023, 06:24 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 12 2023, 06:18 PM)
I would imagine it so since you are in the Roman institution.  
Many pagan practices have infiltrated that institution unfortunately.
And many seminaries do NOT teach Hebrew. My guess is that the Roman Church uses Latin instead.

i am also a nobody on Jewish understanding as far as theology is concerned.  laugh.gif
Long way to go.

On the Beatitudes, this may help.

https://www.hebrew4christians.com/Scripture...beatitudes.html
*
Some Catholic priests still practices the Latin rites.

You dont have to shy la. Is there anyone else here, who thinks that the Sermon on the Mount is weird ? Please share your thoughts. Condition is one must be a practicing Christian.

I have a score to settle with the priest on what is the weird teaching on the Mount. LOL

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Feb 12 2023, 06:30 PM
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post Feb 13 2023, 10:21 AM

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Mar 6 2023, 10:05 AM
This post has been deleted by unknown warrior because: misconstruing

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post Feb 13 2023, 01:53 PM

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QUOTE(SharpSword @ Feb 13 2023, 10:21 AM)
Heb11:1
Faith is the assurance of things hope for, the conviction of things unseen.

What is our hope that we are assured of? What is it we do not see yet we are convinced of it?  Is it not as testified of in the gospel? The gospel is the testimony concerning Jesus Christ of all he did and said, his birth, his life,his death and resurrection, his divinity and humanity. The gospel begins with Jesus and ends with him. Thus Hebrews 11:1  is referring to Christ. We are assured of the hope we have in him. We are convinced of the things spoken concerning him though we have not seen it. This I present to you as being biblical faith.
The focus of biblical faith is not in arbitrary outcomes as advocated by new age positive thinking. Eg believe in success and you will be successful. This is no different from pagan idolatry where one's faith in a pagan deity would yield favourable outcome for its adherents. This kind of ideas have subtly crept into the church notably the prosperity gospel preachers whereby they assert "acknowledging" what Christ did for your sins will make it possible for you to receive favourable outcomes.. you can be rich and successful(worldly success and not godliness) . In their message the focus of faith is on the outcome and Christ is only a facilitator. This is a perversion of biblical faith and the the propagation of a gospel according to the flesh/carnality. Godliness is presented as an elective and seen as something only as one's position in Christ. But if that position does not translate to something tangible here and now I question if we are even there positioned in Christ.
In contrast the immediate tangible favourable outcome  those in the new testament church could expect was persecution by the sanhedrin.
Thus saving faith is not simply believing whatever we want of Christ and in the way that suits us. No. We need to believe in Christ as he is presented in the gospel and in total. There is no room for choosing and picking. Either you take all of him or none at all. And the outcomes we should believe to receive are those which Christ has promised. No Jesus did not promise to make you rich, or grant you a BMW or bungalow. But he commands "seek ye first the kingdom of God" and all your life's needs are provided for. Faith without obedience is deceptive. True faith in God always brings about obedience to the will of God as we see in the case of Abraham.
This are the outcomes that Christ has promised in the gospel and we are to believe in receiving the same : forgiveness from sin, cleansing from sin ie freedom from sin, the gift of the  indwelling Holy Spirit, gifts of the Holy Spirit, to be born again, to be a child of God. In other words what the scripture term "spiritual blessings".
To say there are no outcomes from biblical faith is to deny the whole of Heb11 which demonstrates that biblical faith is one that yield tangible outcomes.
*
No argument with that


But who ask?
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post Feb 14 2023, 04:42 PM

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Jesus Christ wants to be savior, not as an example, teacher or prophet PART 2

In conjunction with the title of this devotion. I will share an interesting revelation between Luke 14 and Luke 15.

In Luke 14, Christ was at a house of a VIP Pharisee and He was being scrutinized for all that he say or do. The Pharisees merely saw him as a teacher. And you will note all their questions were about performances or doings. "is it lawful to heal on Sabbath?" They never recognized Jesus as One who saves but as one to follow after as an example. Hence why they keep testing Christ to see if he knows the law.

The point was "performances before God". This was where they missed the entire point completely.

Romans 10 has this to say

QUOTE
Romans 10 (NIV)
1 brother and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.


Verse 4 of Romans 10 says it very clearly. The righteousness of Christ is given to everyone who believes not everyone who performed.

As outlined in Hebrew 11, Faith in essence = You being confident of what you hope, assured as in given a title deed to an inheritance but yet to possess the inheritance.

This is the Bible's definition of Faith. The confidence of believe is very emphatically strong. It is never about works or performances. I would caution that we are careful as not to change the meaning.

Continuing on Luke 14, you can tell that Christ was not pleased when they only see Him as an example to be followed like a teacher, prophet, etc. You can tell by the parables that he unleashed to them, talking about the Great Banquet, where the invitation was given free. Nobody had to prove their worth by their Faith + Deeds working hand in hand. No such requirement was mentioned. Yet they all gave excuses. This is the disdain of our human heart. Sometimes we just cannot believe God is really that good. We say "it sounds too good to be true". Salvation is really free? No, we must prove our worth by our obedience.

You can study this and research for yourself. Whenever anyone comes to Christ and sees Him as an example to follow after, you will note that Our Lord will unleash the Law back to you for you to gauge whether you are able or not.

This is why Christ gave such hard challenges and told them If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father or mother. Christ even gave 2 accounts of building a tower and going to war with another King.

STOP! Think for a moment why did Christ give such an account? The answer is simple. It is for you to reflect if you are able to or not. Remember on the account of War, the other party has much more men (10K vs 20K) than you have. THINK ABOUT THIS friend. Why mention the large army you are going against? You'd think this was stated for fun? Look at the revelation in there, there are never insignificant details in the Bible there are ALWAYS purposes. smile.gif
(p.s. in case you are still clueless...it is for you to know you will never win by your works/performances).

If you don't agree and you might ask what has work/performance got to do with the Cost of Discipleship? I'll ask you this; what has to hate your parents, building a tower, and going to war to do with being Christ's disciples?

Is it not to gauge your performance?

Yet in other parts of the Bible, many times repeatedly Salvation is given to those who believe. Do you see this contrast?

I'll prove this theology by this account of Rich Young Ruler. When he ask "what must I do to have eternal life"? What did Christ answer him? Again I must remind the reader...this rich young rule merely saw Christ as a teacher. (Matthew 19:16). Christ gave him the Law back (doing/performances). Go sell all you have. That rich young ruler was abit smug if you ask me. "All these I have kept". Self Righteousness. In the end, he couldn't.

Why didn't Christ tell him; to believe in Him? Isn't to believe on Christ, recorded in all the other books as requirement for Salvation?

Do you see this now?

I have yet to expound on Luke 15 and I still have to explain on We are God's Handiwork. Emphasis is on work right? That will be in Part 3 and 4. Long devotion series but worth the knowledge as it will give you grace to know you are saved apart from your works needed.

God Bless.





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post Feb 15 2023, 10:19 PM

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post Feb 16 2023, 11:01 AM

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Jesus Christ wants to be savior, not as an example, teacher or prophet PART 3

Read the Entire chapter of Luke 15 - 3 Parables Lost coin, Lost Sheep & Prodigal Son

In Luke 14, Jesus Christ was not pleased in his spirit when the people who came to him only saw Him as a Teacher. Nicodemus one of Israel's greatest called Christ "Rabbi". Rabbi basically means teacher.

Whenever anyone comes to Jesus seeing Him only as a pattern, Jesus will unleash the Law to bring the person to the end of himself. Give up all you have to follow me. The rich young ruler couldn't do it. Luke 14 is the account of people who came to Jesus seeing Him only as a pattern, a teacher to follow after.

BUT

In Luke 15, The bible begins with this phrase:

"Now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear Jesus". These are the people who had nothing to give to Jesus but they all came to receive from Him. They were hoping in their heart that this is the awaited messiah. The next verse, confirms it. It says in verse 2 "This man welcomes sinners and eats with them".

THIS crowd pleases the Lord. These are the crowd that is looked down upon by Pharisees. Yet Christ is a friend of sinners. Note to your church, don't ever reject people like drug addicts or even prostitutes or people who dressed lewd coming to Church. Sure we can reprimand them but don't do it in holier than thou attitude. If Jesus eats with such who are we to do the opposite?

You can tell the heart of Christ changed and is pleased when he gave this crowd no laws but grace. Look at all the 3 parables. BTW, these 3 parables all talk about repentance. Quite sure I've just heard the admonition that I'm not sharing enough on "repentance". BTW take note Christ answered the Pharisees in these 3 parables when they accused Him of eating with sinners. It is the answer to their accusation.

So okay here it is, you want to hear direct teaching from the mouth of our Lord Jesus Himself on repentance?

Question.

How did the lost sheep or lost coin act in repentance? What did they do?

All I see is the Finder leaving the 99 behind, or lighting the lamp to sweep for that lost coin. All I see is the finder laying hold of the lost on his shoulder, rejoicing.
And when he comes home, he said "REJOICE with me". I see the finder being the one who gave a party in celebration, there is music and dancing.

I can almost hear criticism of No DANCING, toe taping, and hip swaying in churches. They are SACRILIEGE!!!. These people don't know their bible well enough.

Anyway back to the subject, what was their repentance? Even the prodigal son was cut short, not allowing him to regurgitate his rehearsed repentance speech.

I submit to you, this is the repentance that our Lord Jesus Christ wants.

It is for you to consent, HIM (Our Lord) to find you and to carry you on his strong shoulders. Christ did not say to such, You learn to walk after me, leave your father, mother, and everything behind. When one allows himself to be loved, to be found, and to be carried by God not going in your own strength. That is repentance according to God's POV. If you have spiritual eyes to see and ears to hear.

When the Pharisees tried to give Him a great feast and saw Him only as Rabbi/Teacher, Christ wasn't pleased. When the crowd of sinners came to Him to take from Him, to receive from Him with nothing to give Him...it give JOY to the Lord!

Notice that our Lord Jesus only gave the demands of Law to people who think their acts of performance mattered, but He NEVER gave the Law to people who see Him as Savior which really pleases Him.

I hope you can see the comparison between Luke 14 and 15. I still have God's Handiwork to explain, that will be in part 4.

Hope this blesses you because it gives everyone equal ground to come to God. God Bless.






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Jesus Christ wants to be savior, not as an example, teacher or prophet PART 4

Ephesians 2: 8-10 (NIV) - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

I want to start by saying there are many teachings/preaching that seem to put heavy demands on the sinner. This was what the Pharisees did and was rebuked for it, by God Himself. (Matthew 4:4 (NIV) - They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.)

How is it that we don't understand what Christ is trying to say here? To me, scripture does imply Christ doesn't want heavy or cumbersome loads for his children. The phrase lift a finger to move them means to remove those heavy and cumbersome loads. That is what is means. And it's not just God who wants these burdens to be lifted but also expect teachers to do the same for his children . So any teaching or preaching not inline with this is not inline with God.

One of the greatest flaws is that such erroneous teaching, it puts the onus of the workload on the believer to perform. Yes as indicated they will use the words; repentance is the response to faith and it's not works. These teaching are really contradicting if not in denial of their own meanings.

Would you agree that Christ Jesus is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow? If yes then you will agree that God is consistent in his methods, would not do one thing for a person and create different sets of rules for others.

The dying thief, How did he obtain salvation? He managed to prove his faith by his acts of repentance? Mind you, he was on cross. All he could do was confess by faith in his mouth. And Yet Christ granted him Salvation by the confession of his mouth (IE Faith). Confession is one thing but whether that thief was able to prove his walk is another matter. Isn't the proving of his walk are what these critiques criticizing?

Faith is the pre-requisite. Change of heart or Fruits of the spirit are the works of God. We cannot use fruits as pre-requisite for salvation because everyone is a work in progress. There are no instantaneous change next day over night. Trying to disagree or refute that is akin to wanting to see beard being grown on babies.

Anyway there is scripture to explain on work in progress, indicated by strong vs weak faith:

QUOTE
Romans 14
1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

......

10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister  ? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.


The whole phrase in Greek of Romans 14 use the metaphor of food but it isn't just about food. Because at the end of Romans 14 verse 21 and 23, it uses the word "anything" and "everything that does not come from faith is sin."

Then what about being God's Handiwork to do good works? Well look the pre-requisite of what is needed before you are able to do good works.

Answer is "Grace". Allow me to paraphrase Ephesians 2: 8-10:

For it is by the unmerited favor of God (IE Grace) that you are saved not by your efforts, it is a gift of God, so nobody has bragging rights. For of Him (Christ) we are workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God did before prepare, that in them we may walk.

For Him of Christ means WITHOUT Grace or WIHOUT God being the root source for change or empowerment, you cannot do any good works. In fact John 15:5 Strongly tells us;

Without Christ, we can do nothing.

So how is it that you are demanding of what God is doing as pre-requisite to Salvation? You are demanding for God to hurry up to work in the person? You dare to demand of that? If you're saying the demand is on the believer, then If God is the one working, who are you to be impatience? If you are arguing the person is still doesn't change after so many years, then it's your responsibility to pray and love the person until he/she finds God. Not this judgmental being hard on people. This attitude doesn't change anybody and God isn't like this to his beloved.

You will never find Christ being hard on the sinners who come to Him. Even zacchaeus was saved because he exhibited faith. How do I know this?

Luke 19:9 (NIV) - Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham

Those of faith, these are the sons of Abraham. (Galatians 3:7)


So to sum it all up, remember:

1. God wants the believer to be free from heavy/cumbersome requirements.
2. The fruits or changing of person, the work is of God.
3. Pre-requisite given to the dying Thief for salvation is faith and it's the same for everyone else.
4. Don't judge another brethren who are still WIP with contempt.
5. Without Christ (God), you can do NOTHING.

Some people don't believe in No.5. They think they still can do something. This is where they've missed it completely. I rather believe in God. If God says nothing then that is the truth, nothing.

There you have it.

Friend let Christ be the complete savior. If you want to give God the Glory then let God do all the work. There is no, you partly having a small part of saving yourself working hand in hand with God. There is no such theology in the Bible.

I'll finish by leaving this theology for you to meditate.

Romans 4:4-5 (NIV) - Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Will God work in the believer who has complete trust in Him? Answer is a resounding Yes. For sure change will come but not in burdensome manner but one of divine rest in the Lord. You'll note that Christ never panics and was never worried in all that He does. He would the same of you.

God Bless.





desmond2020
post Feb 17 2023, 12:43 PM

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I will just leave this here

“I want to thank my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ . . .”

If those are the first words out of an athlete’s mouth after a big win, we’re pretty sure we have an evangelical on our hands. As unnatural as those moments feel at times, many of us appreciate the heart behind it. Even if we cringe, we want to simultaneously celebrate that good instinct for a Christian to acknowledge Jesus not only as rescuer but also master.

“Lord and Savior” became a kind of evangelical calling card in the last generation, and for good reason. The phrase comes out of the 1980s battles on “lordship salvation” (even with its roots planted firmly in 2 Peter 1:11; 2:20; 3:2, 18). Could a truly born-again person receive Jesus as Savior, but not as Lord? Can you pray a prayer, walk an aisle, sign a card, and receive Jesus’s saving, but not his lordship?

The most compelling voices in the controversy stood with their feet steadied on the rock of God’s own words, and argued that to receive Jesus savingly is to receive him as all that he is — “Jesus is Lord.” You cannot reject his lordship and still have him as your get-out-of-hell-free Savior. No one knows all that his lordship means when we first believe, but as we learn more about the real Christ, we receive him as all that he is.

Is ‘Lord and Savior’ Enough?
I’m thankful for those who fought for Christ’s lordship a generation ago, and continue to proclaim it today. And in the days and context in which I pastor, I’m finding “Lord and Savior” to be both essential and inadequate. More needs to be said about who Jesus is for us.

When we stand over the Lord’s Table at our church each Sunday morning, and as we teach our children at home and in Sunday School, we don’t stop at identifying Jesus as “Lord and Savior.” We’re finding it’s all the more helpful to add a third title to this well-worn evangelical phrase — to help clarify what kind of Lord, and what kind of Savior, we embrace Jesus to be.

What Kind of Lord?
What kind of Lord is Jesus? The kind who not only deserves our obedience, but wins our admiration. He is the kind of King we not only acknowledge with our taxes and military service, but with our adoration and delight.

He is not a selfish lord, but a self-sacrificing lord. He’s not a mean lord, but a kind one. He is not the insecure, cowardly Prince John who opposed Robin Hood, but the winsome, magnanimous King Richard, a king for whose return his subjects longed. He is not a lord like Scar, but like Mufasa. Not Denethor, but Aragorn. Not the White Witch, but Aslan.

“He is not a selfish lord but a self-sacrificing lord.”
He is the kind of Lord who is also our greatest treasure — a lord so good that we would sell all that we have to be his glad servants giving ourselves to the treasure he is (Matthew 13:44). He is our Pearl of Greatest Price (Matthew 13:45–46). Not only have we seen that he is powerful, but we “have tasted that the Lord is good” (1 Peter 2:3). He is not a lord we disdain, but one we admire. He is a giving lord, not an exacting lord (Matthew 18:27). He is “the Lord Jesus Christ himself . . . who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace” (2 Thessalonians 2:16).

He is not just “Lord,” but also “Treasure.” He is the kind of lord in whom we delight.

What Kind of Savior?
And what kind of Savior is Jesus? The kind who not only deserves our gratitude, but wins our love. He is the kind of rescuer who plucks us from fire, and who is himself the waters of life.

He is not like a lifeguard who saves us from the undertow to hand us off to our family, but like our own father who rescues us from the riptide for himself to give us the longest, sweetest, and most memorable hug we ever had. His rescue is not like that of a paramedic, fireman, police officer, or soldier honorably “just doing my job,” but in his rescue he demonstrates his personal, covenantal, eternal love for us. Our salvation doesn’t show his commitment to his work as much as his commitment to his child.

He is not just “Savior,” but also “Treasure.” He is the kind of Savior who is also “a treasure in the heavens that does not fail” (Luke 12:33).

What Kind of Treasure?
And just as Jesus being our “Treasure” flavors what it means to receive him as Lord and Savior, so also his lordship and his deliverance inform and enrich the enjoyment of our Pearl of Great Price. What kind of treasure is he? Not a thing we buy and hide and rule over, but a person we gladly obey and to whom we happily give our allegiance. This is the kind of Lord-Treasure he is.

“Our salvation doesn’t show God’s commitment to his work as much as his commitment to his child.”
And Jesus not only stands above us and receives our worship, but he is the one who stooped so low for us and got beneath us to serve us. He is the kind of Treasure who did not regard equality with God to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking our form and being born in our likeness. And as human, he humbled himself to the point of death, even death on a cross (Philippians 2:6–8). This is the kind of Savior-Treasure he is. This is the kind of Savior for whom we would “count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord” (Philippians 3:8).

God has highly exalted him and given him the name above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord (Philippians 2:9–11). He is the kind of Treasure who gladly saves us and whom we gladly call our Lord. Jesus is our “Lord, Savior, and Treasure.”

David Mathis (@davidcmathis) is executive editor for desiringGod.org and pastor at Cities Church. He is a husband, father of four, and author of Workers for Your Joy: The Call of Christ on Christian Leaders (2022).

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Feb 17 2023, 12:46 PM
desmond2020
post Feb 17 2023, 01:09 PM

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The difference in calling Jesus ‘Lord’ and ‘Savior’
Implications for contemporary discipleship
By JEFF K. CLARKE and CHRISTIANWEEK ChristianWeek Columnist | March 12, 2017

When we replace the statement ‘Jesus is Lord’ (which happens to be one of the earliest Christian creeds) with the statement ‘Jesus is Savior’, it fundamentally changes the way we read, understand, and live out the gospel.

I’m not interested in removing the salvation element from faith, but I’m also not interested in narrowing the gospel to the point where we reduce it down to a system of salvation that decentralizes the controlling message of Jesus and the Kingdom of God.

The central and defining message of the Gospels generally, and of Jesus’ life and ministry specifically, is the Kingdom of God that he inaugurated. As a result, the call to follow after Jesus is one that includes forgiveness of sins, but also transcends it, to embrace a much larger scope of Kingdom activity.

The summons of Jesus’ call to ‘follow me’ and the emphasis laid out in the remainder of the New Testament is a call to answer to the declaration ‘Jesus is Lord'. To make Jesus ‘Lord’ is to repent of self-centredness and our ongoing attempts to ‘go it alone’. Repentance is about ‘turning around’ and the statement ‘Jesus is Lord’ captures the essence of that reorientation, providing its focus and Kingdom-centered direction.

Do we, therefore, remove the ‘Jesus is Savior’ element in Christian faith? Not at all. Instead, we reorient our focus by making Jesus’ Lordship (as King) the focus of attention by giving it the central significance it requires.

As Bruxy Cavey once said, “when we make Jesus Lord, we get Jesus as Savior thrown in.” That is, it becomes part of the total package. The order is important.

In short…

‘Jesus is Savior’ emphasizes sins forgiven. ‘Jesus is Lord’ emphasizes a reorientation in life, which includes sins forgiven. I’m no longer the king of my domain, Jesus is. This reorientation changes everything.
‘Jesus is Savior’ impacts me. ‘Jesus is Lord’ impacts me and everyone around me.
‘Jesus is Savior’ is often deeply personalistic and privatized. ‘Jesus is Lord’ retains the personal dynamic, but spreads out to impact everything and everyone around me. It is mission oriented (as sent ones) and seeks to reflect Jesus to others.
‘Jesus is Savior’ affects only the so-called spiritual aspects in life. ‘Jesus is Lord’ affects all of life; it is holistic and all-encompassing. It isn’t limited to Sunday, or a mid-week program, or more generally to the religious side of life. Instead, it lays at the center of life and thereby orients, shapes, and informs everything else.

My concern, and I’m not alone in this, is that many people have decided to make Jesus their personal Savior, but have yet to truly embrace him as Lord. The first asks people to seek forgiveness of sins, the second summons people to a lifetime of devoted discipleship to Jesus, while inviting others to follow along in the pursuit of the Kingdom.

The first centres on self, the second on Christ and his Kingdom. Any model that switches the order will short-circuit the controlling message of the gospel and effectively produce a mutated organism.

Discipleship is not optional and is not directed towards the few who choose to take Jesus seriously. With Christ, it was all or nothing or nothing at all. It was a summons with expectations.

‘Jesus is Lord’ demands our everything. ‘Jesus is Savior’ does not. The first focuses on a lifetime. The second on a one-time decision.

Unfortunately, the second does not always lead to the first. In fact, only about 50% of those who make decisions actually become disciples. Why? Because we center the call to follow on ‘Jesus is Savior’ and not ‘Jesus is Lord’. One demands nothing of us. The second demands our everything.

So you see there is a difference between calling Jesus Savior and making him Lord. And, the title we choose to prioritize deeply affects the way we view and experience the entire gospel.

Choose well.
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post Feb 17 2023, 03:11 PM

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post Feb 17 2023, 05:58 PM

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Lordship Salvation is heavily defended by John McArthur. But not every bible teacher agrees with him.

I think there is a problem attached to it. It leads to; Salvation needs to be maintained and depends very much on what the believer do to maintain it. To me that is heresy. Salvation is never maintained by any human.

If Salvation can be maintain by the believer, you don't need a Savior in the 1st place. Salvation is the finished work of Christ who died on cross to remove your sins and this grace is given to you unmerited, credited to you because of your faith (believe) in Christ. This foundation can never be changed.

Yet at the same time, you cannot deny Jesus is Lord. So how do you reconcile both aspect of Salvation by grace and The Lordship of Christ?

Well read the Bible.

If you read your Bible well enough, you will find no where Jesus forces his Lordship on you as condition for Salvation. Lordship in the sense that you need to submit to the Lordship of God in order to be saved. (the emphasis is on doing something commanded by God) Again it leads back to Old Covenant theology.

The Dying Thief and Parables of prodigal son will refute that theology easily. And I disagree that Old and New Covenant are the same thing. If it's the same there is no need for new Covenant, the Old will suffice.

But we all want to submit to God as Lord still. There is no denying this.

And I agree when you receive Christ, He is both Lord And Savior. There is no separating this.

So how? Well Let God himself in the Bible teach on this.

We'll look at scriptures for context, in next devotion.








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post Feb 17 2023, 06:31 PM

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Romans 10:9
If you confess with your mouth "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart God raised him from the dead you will be saved.

Is the Paul. suggesting we just pay lip service? Or is he suggesting we need to possess this reality to be saved?To confess would mean you are knowingly pledging to commit to a covenant. It like when we make our marriage vows and confess to honour the other. Its done knowingly.

This post has been edited by SharpSword: Feb 17 2023, 06:45 PM
desmond2020
post Feb 17 2023, 07:11 PM

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someone talk about lordship salvation. let hear the view from other side

The doctrine of lordship salvation teaches that submitting to Christ as Lord goes hand-in-hand with trusting in Christ as Savior. Lordship salvation is the opposite of what is sometimes called easy-believism or the teaching that salvation comes through an acknowledgement of a certain set of facts.

John MacArthur, whose book The Gospel According to Jesus lays out the case for lordship salvation, summarizes the teaching this way: “The gospel call to faith presupposes that sinners must repent of their sin and yield to Christ’s authority.” In other words, a sinner who refuses to repent is not saved, for he cannot cling to his sin and the Savior at the same time. And a sinner who rejects Christ’s authority in his life does not have saving faith, for true faith encompasses a surrender to God. Thus, the gospel requires more than making an intellectual decision or mouthing a prayer; the gospel message is a call to discipleship. The sheep will follow their Shepherd in submissive obedience.

Advocates of lordship salvation point to Jesus’ repeated warnings to the religious hypocrites of His day as proof that simply agreeing to spiritual facts does not save a person. There must be a heart change. Jesus emphasized the high cost of discipleship: “Whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:27), and “Those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples” (verse 33). In the same passage, Jesus speaks of counting the cost; elsewhere, He stresses total commitment: “No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God” (Luke 9:62).

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus says that eternal life is a narrow path found by “only a few” (Matthew 7:14); in contrast, easy-believism seeks to broaden the path so that anyone who has a profession of faith can enter. Jesus says that “every good tree bears good fruit” (verse 17); in contrast, easy-believism says that a tree can still be good and bear nothing but bad fruit. Jesus says that many who say “Lord, Lord” will not enter the kingdom (verses 21–23); in contrast, easy-believism teaches that saying “Lord, Lord” is good enough.

Lordship salvation teaches that a true profession of faith will be backed up by evidence of faith. If a person is truly following the Lord, then he or she will obey the Lord’s instructions. A person who is living in willful, unrepentant sin has obviously not chosen to follow Christ, because Christ calls us out of sin and into righteousness. Indeed, the Bible clearly teaches that faith in Christ will result in a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 5:22–23; James 2:14–26).

Lordship salvation is not a salvation-by-works doctrine. Advocates of lordship salvation are careful to say that salvation is by grace alone, that believers are saved before their faith ever produces any good works, and that Christians can and do sin. However, true salvation will inevitably lead to a changed life. The saved will be dedicated to their Savior. A true Christian will not feel comfortable living in unconfessed, unforsaken sin.

Here are nine teachings that set lordship salvation apart from easy-believism:

1) Repentance is not a simple synonym for faith. Scripture teaches that sinners must exercise faith in conjunction with repentance (Acts 2:38; 17:30; 20:21; 2 Peter 3:9). Repentance is a change of mind from embrace of sin and rejection of Christ to a rejection of sin and an embrace of Christ (Acts 3:19; Luke 24:47), and even this is a gift of God (2 Timothy 2:25). Genuine repentance, which comes when a person submits to the lordship of Christ, cannot help but result in a change of behavior (Luke 3:8; Acts 26:18–20).

2) A Christian is a new creation and cannot just “stop believing” and lose salvation. Faith itself is a gift of God (Ephesians 2:1–5, 8), and real faith endures forever (Philippians 1:6). Salvation is all God’s work, not man’s. Those who believe in Christ as Lord are saved apart from any effort of their own (Titus 3:5).

3) The object of faith is Christ Himself, not a promise, a prayer, or a creed (John 3:16). Faith must involve a personal commitment to Christ (2 Corinthians 5:15). It is more than being convinced of the truth of the gospel; it is a forsaking of this world and a following of the Master. The Lord Jesus said, “My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me” (John 10:27).

4) True faith always produces a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17). The inner person is transformed by the Holy Spirit (Galatians 2:20), and the Christian has a new nature (Romans 6:6). Those with genuine faith—those who are submitted to the lordship of Christ—follow Jesus (John 10:27), love their brothers (1 John 3:14), obey God’s commandments (1 John 2:3; John 15:14), do the will of God (Matthew 12:50), abide in God’s Word (John 8:31), keep God’s Word (John 17:6), do good works (Ephesians 2:10), and continue in the faith (Colossians 1:21–23; Hebrews 3:14). Salvation is not adding Jesus to the pantheon of one’s idols; it is a wholesale destruction of the idols with Jesus reigning supreme.

5) God’s “divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life” (2 Peter 1:3; cf. Romans 8:32). Salvation, then, is not just a ticket to heaven. It is the means by which we are sanctified (practically) in this life and by which we grow in grace.

6) Scripture teaches that Jesus is Lord of all. Christ demands unconditional surrender to His will (Romans 6:17–18; 10:9–10). Those who live in rebellion to God’s will do not have eternal life, for “God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble” (James 4:6).

7) Those who truly believe in Christ will love Him (1 Peter 1:8–9; Romans 8:28–30; 1 Corinthians 16:22). And those we love we long to please (John 14:15, 23).

8) Scripture teaches that behavior is an important test of faith. Obedience is evidence that one’s faith is genuine (1 John 2:3). If a person remains unwilling to obey Christ, he provides evidence that his “faith” is in name only (1 John 2:4). A person may claim Jesus as Savior and pretend to obey for a while, but, if there is no heart change, his true nature will eventually manifest itself. This was the case for Judas Iscariot.

9) Genuine believers may stumble and fall, but they will persevere in the faith (1 Corinthians 1:8). This was the case for Simon Peter. A “believer” who completely turns away from the Lord, never to return, plainly shows that he was never born again to begin with (1 John 2:19). This was the case for Judas Iscariot (see John 6:70).

A person who has been delivered from sin by faith in Christ should not desire to remain in a life of sin (Romans 6:2). Of course, spiritual growth can occur quickly or slowly, depending on the person and his circumstances. And the changes may not be evident to everyone at first. Ultimately, God knows who are His sheep, and He will mature each of us according to His perfect time table.

Is it possible to be a Christian and live in lifelong carnality, enjoying the pleasures of sin, and never seeking to glorify the Lord who bought him? Can a sinner spurn the lordship of Christ yet lay claim to Him as Savior? Can someone pray a “sinner’s prayer” and go about his life as if nothing had happened and still call himself a “Christian”? Lordship salvation says “no.” Let us not give unrepentant sinners false hope; rather, let us declare the whole counsel of God: “You must be born again” (John 3:7).
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TSunknown warrior
post Feb 18 2023, 11:31 AM

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I've read thought that article and I think there is no argument against what is being explained n Lordship Salvation with regards to sin. We are all against sin as warned our Lord Jesus Christ. For the most part, we all want the same thing. I am for obedience to God, never anything else. God loves obedience. But how we get there I differ. I don't believe in doom prophet style of beating your chest, shouting You must love God, you must repent, you must be true to God, etc. This method has no power. It's only temporal because at times it due to riled up emotions and after while it dissipates.

I rather that we go by Life flowing with the Holy Spirit. Because if it's of spiritual power then it's eternal and will last.

If you study the life of Jesus Christ, He is always at peace, calm, never panic, never worried, never at lost. The way he gets the message to sinners are very heartwarming. If you noticed, Christ only uses strong words and only harshest to Pharisees and people who claim to be teachers of the Law but have no heart for God. But He is never harsh to sinners. You won't find Jesus angry at sinners like how advocates of Lordship Salvation does at times. Christ always exhibit grace to sinners who comes to Him. The rhythm flow of God's Holy Spirit is one of peace, never one of panicky, worried, calm and powerful on Salvation.

God's way is always steadfast assurance. You can take a note on this to know if it's from God.

With that being said; what is mainly disagreed against Lordship Salvation, is how one attains Salvation. It goes against what Jesus came to do. Don't get so feisty and upset, Let scripture explain this.

There is no such terminology called Lordship Salvation, this term was created by well meaning Man Of God but it is not accurate as how scripture records the pre-requisite for Salvation.

The word "gospel" comes from the Greek word evangelion (translated in Old English as "good news" or "god spel")

The Gospel that gives people Salvation is called The Gospel of Christ or The Gospel of Grace. Gospel means Good News. For good news to be good news, it must be good news not one that puts loads that at times hard to attain which can be bad news.

Galatians 1:6 (NIV) - I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel. Galatians 1 vs 6 was written to believers who were told they had to
keep OT laws to be saved. That is no different from telling believers that they must submit to Christ lordship in order to be saved. No difference at all, the act of obedience is what gets you saved, what more if you use the phrase "submission goes hand in hand with faith"..... that amplifying the demand of it.

The Grace of Christ is the gospel NOT Lordship Salvation.

What is Grace? Grace = unearned or unmerited favor of God. There is no other definition.

Grace is a gift, Ie Salvation a gift.

Gifts are something given to you that you do not earn. Salvation cannot be earned. Like a birthday gift. If gifts are given to you because you did something, it's no longer called a gift. And this is one of the area of what the good news is. Galatians 1:6 tells us that, the Gospel called the believer to live in the grace of Christ. Meaning you are called to living in the status of washed cleaned from sin, made holy by Christ freely, apart from your works. <---Need to understand this part.

To say that in order to get Salvation one must submit to Lordship of Christ (Not that it is wrong, in fact it's nothing wrong but rightfully so), the basis of attaining of Salvation is based on your obedience and no longer because it's the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. This is where Lordship Salvation has missed it. The finished work of Christ that open the door for Salvation is all the work of God, nothing to do with your obedience.

Romans 5:19 (NIV) - For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Scripture on Romans 5:19 basically refute the doctrine of Lordship Salvation and it could not be any clearer on this.

If Lordship Salvation is careful to say Salvation is by Grace alone, it contradicts itself. They don't understand the core meaning of grace. There are no perfect believers while we are still in this world. Why? Because we still live in a fallen corrupted body. That is why Grace is so important. We all need God's grace. The demand to see that the believer MUST have a converted heart ie leading to good works is something I believe only God alone holds the power to know. But for Man to presume that role of a judge (when you demand, it is judging on your part), it leads to the problem of what the Pharisees did which Christ was not pleased with. You become judgmental to believers not up to your expectation of what you think is a sanctified life.

Anyway, back to core subject, scripture further explained this;

Romans 4:4 (NIV) - Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.

To make it easy to understand, I'll use in the context of Lordship Salvation, Romans 4 verse 4 explains to us what it means where one's salvation is obligated to you because you think you submit to the Lordship of Christ versus given to you because you did nothing but trust God. (Verse 5).

If you deny that and don't agree that is what Lordship Salvation teaches then you should also agree your submission of obedience would not matter in obtaining Salvation, but you cannot, can you?

Do you see now how it contradicts the meaning of grace? I think this basically nailed the contradiction that advocates of Lordship Salvation try hard to deny.

Anyway, nobody is advocating anyone to live in lifelong carnality, enjoying the pleasures of sin. I think it doesn't even make sense to say that. because when one presents the gospel, the fact that sin being the core of all the problems in this world that need to be saved from should give clear indication it shouldn't be.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Feb 18 2023, 12:43 PM
TLIMS P
post Feb 18 2023, 12:35 PM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ Feb 10 2023, 06:34 PM)
You miss the point again. But I will pm you if you allow.

I dun mind spending time talking to you. But I dun want to just pm you and just get rejected out of a sudden.

But you are pretty near the Truth compared to that prophetjul guy for sure.

Your response to this post will determine how credible you really are. At least to me. I mean write so much and yet that is all you can do, then what you have written is a waste of time. Dun you think?
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Yes, feel free to PM me.

I don't log in regularly so there could be a delay in my reply to you.
desmond2020
post Feb 18 2023, 01:55 PM

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someone said jesus was never angry. Oh well, many forget jesus is god, god of infinite justice. As bibles said, it is fearful thing to be at hand of god (Justice). If someone haven't forget that god is one, the OT have ample account of god being angry at sinners.

“For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God” (Heb. 10:30-31)

When Jesus cleared the temple of the moneychangers and animal-sellers, He showed great emotion and anger (Matthew 21:12-13; Mark 11:15-18; John 2:13-22). Jesus’ emotion was described as “zeal” for God’s house (John 2:17). His anger was pure and completely justified because at its root was concern for God’s holiness and worship. Because these were at stake, Jesus took quick and decisive action. Another time Jesus showed anger was in the synagogue of Capernaum. When the Pharisees refused to answer Jesus’ questions, “He looked around at them in anger, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts” (Mark 3:5).

Many times, we think of anger as a selfish, destructive emotion that we should eradicate from our lives altogether. However, the fact that Jesus did sometimes become angry indicates that anger itself, as an emotion, is amoral. This is borne out elsewhere in the New Testament. Ephesians 4:26 instructs us “in your anger do not sin” and not to let the sun go down on our anger. The command is not to “avoid anger” (or suppress it or ignore it) but to deal with it properly, in a timely manner. We note the following facts about Jesus’ displays of anger:

1) His anger had the proper motivation. In other words, He was angry for the right reasons. Jesus’ anger did not arise from petty arguments or personal slights against Him. There was no selfishness involved.

2) His anger had the proper focus. He was not angry at God or at the “weaknesses” of others. His anger targeted sinful behavior and true injustice.

3) His anger had the proper supplement. Mark 3:5 says that His anger was attended by grief over the Pharisees’ lack of faith. Jesus’ anger stemmed from love for the Pharisees and concern for their spiritual condition. It had nothing to do with hatred or ill will.

4) His anger had the proper control. Jesus was never out of control, even in His wrath. The temple leaders did not like His cleansing of the temple (Luke 19:47), but He had done nothing sinful. He controlled His emotions; His emotions did not control Him.

5) His anger had the proper duration. He did not allow His anger to turn into bitterness; He did not hold grudges. He dealt with each situation properly, and He handled anger in good time.

6) His anger had the proper result. Jesus’ anger had the inevitable consequence of godly action. Jesus’ anger, as with all His emotions, was held in check by the Word of God; thus, Jesus’ response was always to accomplish God’s will.

When we get angry, too often we have improper control or an improper focus. We fail in one or more of the above points. This is the wrath of man, of which we are told “Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man’s anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires” (James 1:19-20). Jesus did not exhibit man’s anger, but the righteous indignation of God.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-angry.html

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Feb 18 2023, 02:01 PM
desmond2020
post Feb 18 2023, 02:03 PM

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The theme of the wrath (or anger) of God toward sin and toward sinners is clearly and widely taught in the Bible. And this truth is so interwoven with the hope of our peace with one another and with God that, if we lose our grasp on the one, we lose our hope of the other.

The anger of God is not like human anger.
When we speak about the wrath of God, remember that it is the wrath of God. Everything that we know about Him—that He is just, that He is love, and that He is good—needs to be poured into our understanding of His wrath.

The words ‘anger’ and ‘wrath’ make us think about our own experience of these things. You may have suffered because of someone who is habitually angry. Human anger can often be unpredictable, petty, and disproportionate. These things are not true of the anger of God. God’s wrath is the just and measured response of His holiness towards evil.

Here are five ways God’s anger is different from ours.

1. God’s wrath is provoked.

Do not forget how you provoked the LORD your God to wrath in the wilderness (Deut. 9:7).

This kind of language is used repeatedly in the Bible. The anger of God is not something that resides in Him by nature. It is a response to evil. It is provoked.

There is a very important difference between God’s anger and his love. The Bible says, “God is love.” That is His nature. God’s love is not provoked. God does not love us because He sees some wisdom, beauty, or goodness in us. The reason that God loves us lies in His nature, not in ours.

But God’s wrath is different. It is His holy response to the intrusion of evil into His world. If there was no sin in the world, there would be no wrath in God.

It has often been pointed out that the opposite of love is not hate; it is indifference. What hope would we have in a world stalked by terror if God merely looked on with a weak smile or even a disapproving frown? Hope for a world whose history is strewn with violence lies in a God who is relentlessly opposed to all evil, and who has the power, the capacity, and the will to destroy it.

2. God is slow to anger.

The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love (Ps. 103:8).

These qualities are repeated over and over in the Old Testament, as if they were the most important things you needed to know about God.

Why does God allow evil to continue in the world? Why does He not come back now and wipe it out? 2 Peter 3:9 reminds us that “the Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.”

God offers grace and forgiveness in Jesus Christ. People are coming to Him in faith and repentance every day, and God patiently holds the door of grace open. The day of God’s wrath will come, but He is not in a hurry to bring it—because then the door of grace will be closed.

3. God’s wrath is revealed now.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth (Rom. 1:18).

When you read on in Romans 1, you find that sinners go in one of three directions. They suppress the truth about God, they exchange the truth for a lie, and they worship created things rather than the Creator. How does God reveal His wrath when sinners do these things? God gives them up.

Therefore, God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity (Rom. 1:24).
For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions (Rom. 1:26).

When we see the moral fabric of our culture being torn, Christian believers should cry to God for mercy on the basis of Romans 1: “Lord, what we see around us is a sign of your wrath and judgment. Be merciful, O Lord, and please do not give us up completely.”

4. God’s wrath is stored up.

Because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed (Rom. 2:5).

The whole Bible story leads up to a day when God will deal with all evil finally and forever. On that day, God’s judgment will be fully revealed. This will be the day of wrath when God will recompense every evil.

God will do this in perfect justice. No one will be indicted on a single sin that they did not commit, and the punishment for every sin will match the crime. Every mouth will be stopped, because everyone will know that He judged in righteousness. Then God will usher in a new heaven and earth which will be the home of righteousness.

5. God’s wrath is on sinners.

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him (Jn. 3:36).

John does not say, “The wrath of God will come on the disobedient.” He says, “The wrath of God remains on him.” It is already there. Why? By nature we are children of wrath (Eph. 2:3). It is the state in which we were born.

Here we stand face to face with the human problem at its core. What is it? It is not that we are lost and need to find our way on a spiritual journey. It is not that we are wounded and need to be healed. The core of the human problem is that we are sinners under the judgment of God, and His divine wrath hangs over us, unless it is taken away.

God’s wrath was poured out.
This takes us to the heart of what happened at the cross. The divine wrath toward sin was poured out, or spent, on Jesus. He became the ‘propitiation’ for our sins (Rom. 3:25) as He became the sacrifice for us. This big word ‘propitiation’ means that the recompense or the payment for our sins was poured out on Jesus at Calvary.

The outpouring of God’s wrath on Jesus Christ was the greatest act of love this world has ever seen. And Jesus stands before us today, a living Savior. He offers to us the priceless gift of peace with God. He is ready to forgive your sins and to fill you with His Spirit. He is able to save you from the wrath and to reconcile you to the Father. He has opened the door of heaven, and He is able to bring you in. Are you ready to find peace with God through Him?





This article is an adaptation of Pastor Colin’s sermon, “Overcoming Evil with Peace”, from his series, Overcoming Evil.
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 18 2023, 03:17 PM

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laugh.gif This is what happens when comprehension isn't there.
desmond2020
post Feb 18 2023, 03:18 PM

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rolleyes.gif that is the problem when someone think his kind of comprehension is THE pathway to heaven / salvation.
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post Feb 18 2023, 04:19 PM

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Becket Cook joins Eric Metaxas to discuss his powerful story of redemption from being a gay atheist to finding Jesus Christ.
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post Feb 18 2023, 04:27 PM

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Mar 6 2023, 10:04 AM
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desmond2020
post Feb 18 2023, 04:46 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Feb 18 2023, 04:19 PM)


Becket Cook joins Eric Metaxas to discuss his powerful story of redemption from being a gay atheist to finding Jesus Christ.
*
wow, a powerful testimony indeed.

sadly, this isn't considered politically correct there, even in some USA church. out of some weird reason, they think that homosexuals isn't a sin.
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 20 2023, 08:20 AM

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Blessings everyone, grace and peace to all of you, including LS advocates.

I'm going by scripture.

Salvation is God saving you. Hence, the meaning of Savior. One who saves you. If you have a part in Salvation (IE your obedience), it would be recorded quite clearly in Bible but it's not there.

If you say that obedience is required in Salvation, that makes it works base Salvation because it is "required" of you "doing" for Salvation.

And to say that Salvation by grace is erroneous, sorry to say the Bible does not agree with you.

Ephesians 2:8 (NIV) - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faithand this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

Emphasis on underline and bold part.

We obey God because of WHO God is.

We don't obey God to get Saved.

There is a difference.

The works of Salvation is of spiritual nature, something I would say ..to make it plain and simple; is pure if not holy where there can be no mixture of any of Man's performances or effort. It is God's Work.

If God require Man's obedience to be saved, it would be recorded in the Bible but it's not there. God alone is the one saving you.

Romans 4:4-5 (NIV) - Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Romans 5:19 (NIV) - For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

I think the part where LS advocates do not understand is that they think when we say obedience cannot be a requirement, they interpret it as.."OH these people are asking people to disobey God".

See the problem?

And yes, to the other brother has comprehension problem, I said you will not find Jesus being angry towards any sinners who come to Him, you won't find it in the Bible. So what happen next? he go and post 2 article of talking about God's wrath and anger by the phrase "someone said jesus was never angry".

That is indeed comprehension problem.




TSunknown warrior
post Feb 20 2023, 09:03 AM

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2 Thessalonians 1:8 (NIV) - He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

1 Peter 4:17 (NIV) - For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

Romans 10:16 (NIV) - But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?”

Okay lets look at these verse as quoted.


Not sure what Romans 10:16 has to do with obedience required for Salvation, don't see it in this verse.

Lets look at 2 Thessalonians 1:8 & 1 Peter 4:17,

what is obeying the Gospel Of Jesus Christ?

We look at the entire message in the Bible.

The Gospel = Good News that everyone can be saved from their sins via Faith in Jesus Christ. Many times in the Bible God has repeated warned those who reject Christ for Salvation, these will be condemn by their own self-confession to eternal separation from God the Father, agree?

To obey the Gospel means to Submit to what the Good News proclaim; Which is to believe and accept Christ saving you from your sins. What does it even mean here?

To Submit that, CHRIST is the one who saves you. Not you. Your obedience cannot save you.

To Add so that you know.

Of course the other important overall message is repentance from Sin.

But yet many tend to forget; when you accept and believe in Christ Jesus for Salvation, He will also send the Holy Spirit into the believer's life to transform the person's heart for the redemptive work. The work will be there. And as I said many times you cannot use the Work of the Holy Spirit as pre-requisite because God is the one working after the pre-requisite has been met. Let God work, you pray and continue to love others.

BTW food for thought.

If the work of the HS comes after the pre-requisite of Faith being the criteria , how can it still be a pre-requisite as criteria? Even LS theology readily agree that one is saved before any works is manifested.

Pre-requisite would mean you MUST be already obedient before you are saved. It just doesn't make any sense would it?

And I completely understand that you criticize all these because you are worried of false conversion IE false believer or even false teachers and things like this, my answer to this is;

Have faith that God is stronger and able to reach the person but you have a responsibility to pray for the troubled believers / back-slided believer if you are worried about this issue and IF you are really worried or care about the said person.

But will you do this in obedience to God? Just some self reflection.



This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Feb 20 2023, 11:52 AM
desmond2020
post Feb 20 2023, 12:15 PM

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well, look like someone's English comprehension differ greatly from mine. When I read those proposed by lordship salvation camp, actually i didn't get any idea work is needed for salvation. It occur to me, it is more like a strawman argument of the said person, he put up a point, which isn't backed by original post, and attempt to show he can defeat it with grand slam. Although i don't agree fully with John Macarthur since his point since probably more on Calvinist side. but i concur the different is minor and doesn't affect the main doctrine of Christianity.

well let see what John MacArthur said about repentance, which is like the word 'work', another word some church now avoid like plague.

The meaning of the word repentance has been twisted in recent years to the point that its biblical meaning is now obscured in the minds of many. The idea that genuine repentance could result in anything but a change of life is completely foreign to Scripture.

What does the Bible teach about the relationship between salvation and repentance? First, it teaches that repentance is essential to salvation. One cannot truly believe unless he repents, and one cannot truly repent unless he believes. Repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin (but they are not synonymous terms). Acts 11:18 and 2 Peter 3:9 are two of the many verses that teach that repentance is necessary for salvation. Perhaps 2 Timothy 2:25 best sums up the relationship between repentance and saving faith when it speaks of "repentance to the acknowledging of the truth" (see also Acts 20:21).

Second, the Greek word for repentance (metanoia) means "to have another mind," but it cannot properly be defined to exclude a sense of hatred of and penitence for sin. The biblical concept of repentance involves far more than merely a casual change of thinking. Biblically, a person who repents does not continue willfully in sin. Repentance is a turning from sin, and it always results in changed behavior (Luke 3:8). While sorrow from sin is not equivalent to repentance, it is certainly an element of scriptural repentance (2 Corinthians 7:10).

Finally, despite what is being widely taught today, affirming that repentance and acknowledgement of Jesus' lordship are necessary to salvation does not "add" anything to the requirement of faith for salvation. It is not "faith plus repentance" that saves, but rather a repentant faith. The notion that salvation is possible apart from a genuine, heartfelt repentance, which includes a deep hatred of sin, is a relatively new one, neither believed nor taught by the people of God until the twentieth century.
desmond2020
post Feb 20 2023, 12:18 PM

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You know, it is quite puzzling when NIV replace the word 'work' with 'deeds'.

Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

compare that with ESV

Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[b] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

And ASV

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but have not works? can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food, 16 and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself. 18 [h]Yea, a man will say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith apart from thy works, and I by my works will show thee my faith. 19 Thou believest that [i]God is one; thou doest well: the demons also believe, and shudder. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith apart from works is barren? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, in that he offered up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 [j]Thou seest that faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect; 23 and the scripture was fulfilled which saith, [k]And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness; [l]and he was called the friend of God. 24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. 25 And in like manner was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works, in that she received the messengers, and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, even so faith apart from works is dead.
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post Feb 20 2023, 12:55 PM

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post Feb 20 2023, 01:15 PM

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About the good thief, was there anything else that the good thief could have done for it to be considered as works or deeds while hanging on the cross ?
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post Feb 20 2023, 01:34 PM

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biggrin.gif

So now it's no longer talking on anger with regards to comprehension, now it's diverted to repentance?

Sure, scripture can explain those too.

The Greek word use for repentance is "metanoia" = change of mind. That is the accurate definition. Change of mind to believe that God is good. That is repentance. You can study the 3 parables of lost sheep, coin and prodigal son, it's in line with that.

Most people would think repentance has to do crying at the altar, being sorrowful over your sin or to turn away or do restitution. Sure it can involve all those but is that the kind of repentance that God teach in the Bible?

Consider this fact; Judas who betrayed Jesus.

Matthew 27:3 (NIV) - When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders.

Was he sorrowful over his wrong? Yes scripture recorded he was seized with remorse
Did he do restitution over his wrong? Yes, he returned 30 silver.
Did he realize he was wrong? Yes, verse 4 says he acknowledged he "betraying innocent blood"

Did Judas repented? You tell me, why he wasn't granted Salvation? Well I know, but you can ponder about it.

I submit to you, the repentance that Bible ask is this

Romans 12:2 (NIV) - Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

There you go again, change of mind that leads to Godly changes.

Some people perhaps are so afraid of the word mental assent, they demonize it. But not for God. God uses what little Faith, the moment we change our mind and agree with Him, BANG! The Holy Spirit goes to work in our lives.

With this understanding in mind, we can then take look at all the scripture used supposedly needed for Salvation. It is the same in principle for Act 11:8, 2 Peter 3:9 and 2 Timothy 2:25

We'll look at Acts 11: 18 as example.

But before that, if you read in Acts 10;

The message which Apostle Peter preached in Cornelius house, he did not use the word repentance to the gentiles and yet the Holy Spirit fell on them, you can read this account in Acts 10 the chapter before Acts 11:18. How is that possible without the requirement for repentance as criteria? How come???

But what you will notice is that, what was preached was the message on "forgiveness of sins". <---This.

After this account then....

Acts 11:18 (KJV) - When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Once you understand the context in Acts 10, then you will be able to understand Acts 11:18 better.

KJV brings out the message better. If it can be paraphrased; God has granted the Gentiles repentance unto Life , this is why we believe repentance is also a grace gift.

God is the one who gives them the grace of changed of the mind unto life. It didn't say the gentiles believers themselves acted on their own in repentance (whatever "action" it was) first in order to qualify for Salvation. Nothing of this was recorded of this in Acts 10.

Same thing you will notice even in 2 Timothy 2:25, God is the one granting repentance to the knowledge of truth. (Nothing to do with Salvation here).



TSunknown warrior
post Feb 20 2023, 01:41 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 20 2023, 01:15 PM)
user posted image

About the good thief, was there anything else that the good thief could have done for it to be considered as works or deeds while hanging on the cross ?
*
Nothing whatsoever.


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post Feb 20 2023, 01:45 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Feb 20 2023, 01:41 PM)
Nothing whatsoever.
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Precisely. 🙂
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 20 2023, 01:50 PM

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And of course nobody is capable of repentance unless God is the one working in the person's life. Many times the way words are being phrased, it's as if the person is capable of repentance on his own strength. This is an error, if you think you can on your own.

What is the will of the Father?

John 6:40 (NIV) - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

No such thing as if anyone believes that Jesus had forgiven their sins but there is no need to stop sinning. What I said about the misunderstanding is being exhibited. haih. biggrin.gif


TSunknown warrior
post Feb 20 2023, 01:51 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Feb 20 2023, 01:45 PM)
Precisely. 🙂
*
Thank you. The basis of Salvation granted to that dying is the same for all of us.
desmond2020
post Feb 20 2023, 01:59 PM

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lol, now the good thief? I assume it is directed at catholic? since catholic themselves didn't say you can achieve salvation by work, i just put what they said below (disclaimer here: i actually think that catholic and traditional protestant is closer in their doctrine if compared with some 'new' church today):-

“Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”

With these words, St. Dismas (one of the two thieves crucified with Jesus) was saved by Our Lord who promised: “Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise” (Luke 23:42-43).

Unfortunately, some Christians cite this beautiful story as evidence against the Catholic theology of salvation, claiming that salvation is by faith alone and anything in addition is contrary to the gospel. (This is the Reformation doctrine of sola fide). After all, they point out, the thief on the cross was never baptized, never received the Eucharist, never did any good works—yet he was saved!


But there are several problems with proof-texting St. Dismas in this manner.

First, a rather large assumption is being made concerning the thief’s sacramental record. How do we know he wasn’t baptized? The Bible doesn’t say he was—but it doesn’t say he wasn’t. We certainly would not want to argue a positive case from silence, but neither should those who assume the thief was not baptized (the Bible doesn’t report the apostles’ baptisms either!).

It is also noteworthy that the good thief seems to have been catechized to some level. He knew Jesus had done nothing wrong, that Jesus was Lord, and that Jesus was going to his kingdom after he died (something Jesus made clear only to his disciples—see Matthew 13:10-11). It is possible, then, that the thief on the cross was a fallen-away disciple (cf. Matt. 27:44) who repented on the cross. If so, it’s likely that he would have been baptized.

The second and much bigger problem is that even if the good thief had never been baptized, the analogy between his life and most other people’s is insufficient to support sola fide. One issue is that the thief lived and died under the Old Covenant. The sacraments, such as Christian baptism and the Eucharist, are part of the New Covenant, which was not fully in place until Jesus died (Heb. 9:15-18, Acts 19:1-6).

Another problem with the analogy is that the good thief’s situation was unlike virtually any person’s in history. What God does for someone in an extremely unusual context should not reassure anyone outside those same conditions. Further, treating this “edge case” as a general principle actually proves too much. Would any Christian agree that the gospel can be boiled down to asking to be remembered in Jesus’ kingdom? Moreover, if the good thief is a standard-setting example, why not others? Jesus forgave the sins of many people in a wide variety of circumstances that few consider normative today. In Mark 2:5, for instance, Jesus forgives a man based on his friends’ faith! What does that do for “salvation by faith alone”?

A third reason why this story doesn’t support sola fide is that the good thief on the cross actually seems to have exhibited all the faith and works that he could, given his situation. The fact that his physical limitations made it impossible for him to do anything more than speak was certainly not lost on God! Amidst all the assumptions made about this short story, one that seems safe is that had any sacrament been made available to the good thief for salvation, he would have received it. This hardly supports the theology behind sola fide, which eschews the need for good works under any circumstances.

In conclusion, it is important to understand that the Church makes many normative statements that are easily criticized when made into absolutes, and the sacraments fall prey to these illicit attacks all the time. The Church actually teaches that although we are bound to God’s sacraments, God is not. The Church baptizes because that is how God revealed that New Covenant believers enter into salvation (e.g., Mark 16:16; John 3:5; Acts 2:38, 22:16; 1 Pet. 3:21)—but this does not mean God cannot save without baptism (see CCC 1257-1258). The same might be said of the Eucharist (cf. John 6:53-54). God looks on the heart, not just the body—and a person who unwillingly cannot participate in the sacraments is not judged for that.

There are unusual and extreme situations when normative salvific requirements cannot be met, and yet salvation remains possible. God knows this, and the Church teaches it. But unusual circumstances do not disprove normative expectations. By his grace, God can save through (genuine) faith alone, of course, but it is a mistake to make an exceptional act into a theological rule—especially one that directly contradicts Scripture.
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 20 2023, 01:59 PM

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I love this verse the best

Acts 20:21 (KJV) - Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

What is repentance "towards" God?

Anyone want to try? biggrin.gif
desmond2020
post Feb 20 2023, 02:03 PM

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eh, now you don't like NIV? how sad

21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.


TSunknown warrior
post Feb 20 2023, 02:11 PM

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That is why you have to look at all the translations available. The best is still to look back at the greek or hebrew.

The word used there is "eis" = "into, in, unto, to, upon, towards, for, among.

Whether it's turn to God for repentance or repentance towards God, Both are indicative of changing your mind towards God.

What is it that you're changing your mind about? That is the question.

Can you repent unto God if you think that God is an evil God? Most would not. That has to be the 1st thing to be considered from Lay person's pov.

But the moment you relent and submit that God is a good God, all that He asked of, is it for your good? It can be pointed to be so if you believe God is a good God.

It's how we present the gospel correctly, it matters.

This is how repentance takes place in the believer's heart.

And it take trust in God for God to work.

Root = Faith in God
Fruit = Work of God in believer's life.





TSunknown warrior
post Feb 20 2023, 02:16 PM

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As for whether St Dismas was baptized prior to his death, that remains a speculation.

What is speculation cannot be used as theology. Else many assumption then can be made as doctrine.

But what was recorded was indeed his believe that Christ is the one. That thief must have heard the rumors' or someone talking about Christ, his divine work to prove that He came from God.

Normally criminals punished at the cross are the worse kind that are not given much grace, what more the privilege's to be baptized.


desmond2020
post Feb 20 2023, 02:42 PM

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Actually, catholic didn't say they are saved by their work. it is fitting to look into their view

Are Catholics Saved by Good Works?
Oct 24
Written By Laila

As a Protestant, I believed that there was nothing I could do to earn my salvation. I trusted that Jesus had done it all- All that I had to do was simply believe. I looked down at Catholics because I thought that they believed they had to earn their salvation. “Catholics think they can get into Heaven just by doing good works”. I missed the mark- big time.

First, I misunderstood how important faith is to Catholics. I believed that Catholics didn’t have personal relationships with God. I truly thought they just believed they could get into Heaven by doing good works.

Secondly, I misunderstood the importance of good works in my own salvation. Never once does the Bible say we’re saved by “faith alone”. Even the verses that are often misconstrued to teach faith alone, don’t mention it. (Romans 3:28, Galatians 2:16, Ephesians 2:8–9). However, the Bible DOES say in James 2:24, “ You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” (ESV, emphasis added).

Once saved always saved
As a Protestant who was brought up with some Calvinistic beliefs, I held to the doctrine commonly referred to as, “once saved, always saved.” which comes from Romans 5:1, “ Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (ESV).

I was under the impression that the justification of the believer was a one time completed action which happens when you say that little prayer “inviting Jesus into your heart”. Similarly, with regard to salvation, I grew up with the belief that there is nothing that can separate a true believer from Christ- not even sin. I was once saved, always saved because I thought I was fully justified ever since I was 5 years old when I accepted Jesus into my heart.

Because righteousness is a synonym for justification, I looked at what Paul wrote about Abraham in Galatians 3:6, “So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness”(ESV). (The Greek word used here which is translated as “righteousness” is dikaiosunes, which can be translated either as “righteousness” or as “justification"1)

As a Protestant I thought, “it doesn’t get any clearer than that! Abraham was justified once and for all at the moment that he believed.” Not only is this proof of faith alone, but it’s evidence that justification is a completed transaction at the moment the believer comes to Christ.1

Cooperation with God’s Grace
The Catholic Church actually agrees with some of that, on a couple points.

“First, as baptized Catholics, we can agree that we have been justified and we have been saved. Thus, in one sense, our justification and salvation is in the past as a completed action. The initial grace of justification and salvation we receive in baptism is a done deal.”1

However, Catholics believe there is more to the story. “Scripture reveals that it is precisely through this justification and salvation the new Christian experiences in baptism that he enters into a process of justification and salvation requiring his free cooperation with God’s grace.”1

See, where I was wrong in my old belief was that I thought that my justification and salvation was a one time deal, it happened ONE time and it was over.

I did not realize that we are called to grow in righteousness/justification- remember, righteousness is a synonym for justification - and we do that by good works.

“Good works are a part of the Christian life. We grow in our righteousness, or in our justification, over the course of the Christian life by doing good works in cooperation with God’s grace.” 2. As Paul writes in Ephesians 2:10, we are created in Christ FOR good works.

Where Protestants Can Miss The Mark
“The major part of the puzzle here that our Protestant friends are missing is that there are many biblical texts revealing both justification and salvation to have a future and contingent sense as well as a past sense. In other words, justification and salvation also have a sense in which they are not complete in the lives of believers.”1

Where does this come from? Here’s some verses to dive into:

Romans 6:16 : Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? (ESV)

Matthew 10:22 : And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be. (ESV)

Romans 13:11 : ... for salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed. (ESV)

1 Corinthians 5:5 : You are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. (ESV)

Romans 2:13-16 : For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. (ESV)

Another point we can agree with our Protestant friends on is that Abraham was justified through the gift of faith he received from God. The Catholic Church acknowledges what the text clearly says: “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” (Romans 4:3, ESV).

However, there is more to this text as well. While the Catholic Church agrees that Abraham was justified by faith in Genesis 15:6 as Paul said in Romans 4:3, the Church also notes that Abraham was justified at other times in his life as well. This indicates justification has an on-going aspect to it, not just a “one and done” moment in time.1

Abraham is also revealed to have already been justified at other times as well:

James 2:21- “Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?” (ESV)

Hebrews 11:8, “By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to a place that he was to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.” (ESV)

So what do Catholics believe about good works?
“When you talk about how we can’t merit salvation, or we can’t do anything to merit salvation. The Catholic Church agrees with that if you’re talking about the initial grace of salvation that comes to us. We can’t do anything to merit that initial gift of faith or that initial gift of salvation. That’s why Ephesians 2:8-9 says "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.” but then he goes on to say in verse 10, “For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.” 3 So what he’s saying here is that before our conversion (before we put Christ as the Lord and Savior of our life), there is nothing we can do. However, once we enter into Christ, then we must begin to work. 3

Why must we begin to work?
Good works are important to Catholics because we will be rewarded for them. “We don’t do good works to get into a state of justification; good works flow from the state of justification, and ultimately rewards us for having done those in the next life” 4 .

One of the rewards of our good works is eternal life! Romans 2:6-7, “God “will repay each person according to what they have done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.” (NIV).
“Eternal life is one of the rewards for the good works done, not before Christ, not a part from Christ, but IN Christ” 5
Our Protestant brothers and sisters believe that good works simply PROVE your justification. But we as Catholics believe that “while that initial grace of salvation and justification can’t be merited in any sense. Once we enter in, we must continue to be justified, or as the council of Trent taught, “to increase our state of justice.” St. Thomas Acquinas said, “you’re either growing in justice or you’re dead.” 5

Why Faith Alone Isn’t Enough
Yes, faith is important, it’s VITAL. But we can’t just pick and choose the Bible verses that we like in order to form our own theological views, we have to view Scripture in its entirety, even if we don’t like what it says. As St. Augustine said, “If you believe what you like in the Gospel, and reject what you don't like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself.”

The Catholic Church does not divide these various elements of salvation up, overemphasizing some while ignoring others; rather, she holds them all in their fullness"6

To help illustrate that “believing” is not enough, here is a list of 5 Scripture passes that show where the Catholic Church gets this teaching from7:

James 2:24 (ESV), “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone”

Romans 2:6-7 (ESV), “He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life”

Matthew 12:36-37 (ESV) “I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Matthew 25:31-46 is the scene of the final judgment where Jesus separates the sheeps from the goats. The only difference between the sheep and the goats is what they did and didn’t do. They all called Jesus Lord, but Jesus separates them and sends them either to Heaven or Hell based on what they did and didn’t do.

Galatians 6:6-9 (ESV), “Let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches. Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.”

Good Works In Depth
Now, let’s discuss the two types of “good works” in order to clear up any kind of confusion.

There are good works that are done by human nature.

We believe that these are meaningless. See, prior to the point of justification, it is impossible for us to perform works by God’s grace because God’s grace isn’t acting in our souls yet. Tim Staples says, “ it is impossible for us to do supernaturally good works prior to the point in our lives where we convert and we’re justified.”4

There is nothing that we can do prior to justification that will EARN the grace of justification.

Then there are good works that are done by God’s grace.

These are the works that do matter as St. Paul says we are created to do good works (Ephesians 2:10).

These are what we perform out of cooperation with God’s grace. “Cooperating with the grace of God to allow God to flourish in us. It is not enough to passively allow grace to declare us justified, we must actively take up the task of growing in righteousness and we accomplish this by participating and growing in the theological virtues of faith, hope and love”8

By cooperating with God’s grace, we increase our state of justice, or justification, before him. And if we are faithful until death, we will receive eternal life. As Revelation 2:10 says, “Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life” (ESV).

So to summarize, here is the order of operations:

We come to God, we believe, we repent, we get baptized- that’s the point at which in the ordinary course of affairs, he justifies us and gives us grace. Then over the course of the Christian life, we grow in his grace. "And because we have his grace working in our souls now, it’s now possible for us to do supernaturally good works.”2

So essentially, there are good works that mean NOTHING- they don’t count for anything because they are done before we have received God’s grace of justification. But then there are works that DO have meaning because they are done after we have received God’s grace.

To Wrap It All Up
"When Catholics read of Abraham “justified by faith” in Romans 5, we believe it. But we don’t end there. For when Catholics read of Abraham “justified by works” in James 2 we believe that as well.

For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has taken all of Sacred Scripture into the core of her theology harmonizing all of the biblical texts. Thus, we can agree with our Protestant friends and say as Christians we have been (past tense) justified and saved through our faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross."

But we also agree with our Lord that there is another sense in which we are being saved and justified by cooperation with God’s grace in our lives, and we hope to finally be saved and justified by our Lord on the last day: I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter; for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned (Matt. 12:36-37).1

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Feb 20 2023, 02:42 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 20 2023, 03:07 PM

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Actually I'm not surprised why you posted that. Already suspected your believes was in Catholic or near Catholic's denomination all along.

But that is your prerogative.

Just that there are a few areas I don't agree with what was written by Laila. The scripture verses quoted are not really in context to which I'm lazy to expound one by one but if anyone wants to point out which exactly I wouldn't mind to do one or two.

But here is where I disagree with Catholic's view.

She said "....and we hope to finally be saved and justified by our Lord on the last day" What in the world? You mean you have no idea whether you'd be saved on the last day?

Is that how Hebrews 11 expound on Faith? I don't think so.

Many times in the Bible, God uses phrases and words with strong assurance of our Salvation. Never about Doubt.

Scripture clearly tells us ..Anything comes from doubt is Sin.

Hence why I strongly share devotions that encourages robust faith.

And We believe Christ work to remove our sins is once and for all. It isn't initial grace and the rest depends on you.

Hebrews 7:27 (NIV) - Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

Hebrews 10:10 (NIV) - And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


These 2 verse are quite clear. I don't know which part of "once for all" is hard to understand.

As long as you keep the Faith ie keep believing everyday what Christ did on the cross is eternal, repenting (changing your mind) everyday that your sins have been dealt at the cross, you will find that there is no barrier between you and God.

This 2 verse has help me so much and I find that my spiritual walk with God is never hindered by anything.

I wanted to share some testimony about God dealings in my life. Perhaps I should.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Feb 20 2023, 03:09 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 20 2023, 03:22 PM

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You know with regards to James 2 Faith without works is dead?

The works here couple with faith is needed I believe to accomplish God's needed work here on earth.

The work to provide for the needy or poor, to minister to someone. <---Context.

It's not about to attain Salvation.
desmond2020
post Feb 20 2023, 03:32 PM

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well, that is what catholic is and they did refer to a verse

"But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." (Matthew 12:36-37)

if someone haven't forgotten, his post is actually mostly based on single verse quoted from bible. Out of context, well, that is just somebody's personal opinion.

that is what i would like to caution here, bible as you read is just a translation. to emphasis a single word and blow a whole theology out of it is dangerous. As someone said, context is important. Right?


TSunknown warrior
post Feb 20 2023, 04:16 PM

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Yes context is important.

Which is why I quoted these 2 verses.

Hebrews 7:27 (NIV) - Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

Hebrews 10:10 (NIV) - And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Christians are sanctified by Christ blood once and for all. I don't believe God's grace is just initial and after that it's up to you, whether you get Salvation or not depends on how good you obey, repented or performed, That to me degrade the finish work of Christ if not insulting the spirit of his grace. It also makes it a Man based Salvation rather than God's finished work.

I believe the blood of Christ is eternal, not temporal. <--Key. If we are made holy apart from our works, If we never got Salvation by our works, this indicates it's ALL spiritual in nature, God is the one who does it. If God is the one who does it then it is assured according to his word, the finishing line is also by God as long as we keep the faith.

With that being said, whatever mistakes we do, whatever sin we commit as Christian, words spoken or acted...the Blood of Christ avails and speaks for us.

This doctrine has proven to be working and working even until now and I see God working tremendously in my life and those around me. It's pointless for me to keep defending this if it's just all empty talks.

Isn't the Christian life about living with a supernatural God? The things that happened are no coincidences but God's divine interventions? Too much has happened for me to know God is real and working in my life.

As with regards to Matthew 12:36-37 they are directed to the Pharisees (they didn't believe in Christ). Hence they will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.

What is the point for Christian to get punished for sin, ie to give an account if Christ died for our sins? Did He pay or did He not pay for our sins? Sometimes I wonder if anyone would consider the blood of Christ, is it just temporal or eternal in it's application. This is something deep actually to consider. For me I see eternal.

PS:

For Christians, the type of account that we need to give to the Father determine our rewards or no rewards in Heaven. It's not to punish us to eternal condemnation.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Feb 20 2023, 05:06 PM
desmond2020
post Feb 20 2023, 04:39 PM

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I would caution that we limit the applicability of certain verse. As it is to be like what those joker in the west do
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post Feb 20 2023, 07:12 PM

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Mar 6 2023, 10:03 AM
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post Feb 20 2023, 09:32 PM

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Mar 6 2023, 10:03 AM
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post Feb 20 2023, 10:26 PM

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There is confusion on the work of the Holy Spirit. He convicts of sin. And this work begins even before conversion. When we resist the workings of the Holy Ghost it scuttle the whole salvation process. In Gen6:3 "my Spirit shall not always strive with man". The convicting work of the Holy Spirit continues as after conversion. That's why it says grieve not the Holy Ghost.
After conversion the Holy Spirit indwells believer ie they possess eternal life. He gives them power to live above sin. He enables us to exercise spiritual gifts. He gives life to our mortal bodies. He leads us when we walk after him. He produces the character of Christ in us ie fruits of the Spirit. He prepares and equips us for ministry. He gives us the revelation of God's word. He teaches us. He comforts us.
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 21 2023, 09:27 AM

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What does fixing our eyes on Christ means?

Hebrews 12:2 (NIV) - fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.


Morning Guys, Much Grace to all you. I mean all of you in here.

Thank You for your contributions. I was hoping for Christians to contribute anyway and it's happening.

We all have our callings in life, Mine is to encourage faith and hope in the Lord Jesus Christ. Perhaps your calling is to help people understand sin.

Every believer have their gifting. Continue with what you're doing if you know it's for the Lord.

There must be a balance and the word of God correctly divided.

As believers according to the word of God, after you have been saved, your responsibility is to keep your eyes on Jesus Christ. And remember all that He has done for you. I do not believe as people of God, you are to consistently to keep wallowing in sin, thinking about sin all the time. How come? Well you need to reflect on this question. Has the blood of Jesus cleansed you of all your sins or do you think He hasn't? <--- This is the battle that the devil fight so hard to keep you in doubt. Why? When you have doubt on Christ's blood, you remain defeated all the time. You think your sins is more powerful than Christ's Blood. Let me tell you that is lie. The devil wants God's people to keep wallowing in their sin. But God wants his people to know they have been set free.

So choose this day, where you're going to keep your eyes on. Because that is key to your freedom.

And This is a command from God.

Hebrews 12: 1-3 (NIV) says it like this

1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us,
2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

Verse 1 is saying throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. What it means is that, make up your mind that you're no longer going to live as you have done in the past as one who is not saved. Understand where you're going. Heaven is a place that is pure and has no sin. You need to understand you have to get use to living in heaven, might as well start now itself, otherwise you need to reflect with what you're doing. Will you get use to living in Heaven with God? <----Something for you to ponder. The power to live right lies in the secret that you need to believe in God to work via the Holy Spirit in your heart. It is not you conjuring your own effort, gritting your teeth, using self discipline, using your own will power to refrain from sin. If you think that this is so, friend, you have not been reading the Bible right. PM me for more info on this and I'll gladly update you.

Verse 2 is the main gist of my devotion today. KEEP your eyes on Jesus. What does that even mean? Have you thought about it? Keeping your eyes on Jesus means that you live your life 24/7, remembering Christ of what He has done for you, which is; His Blood has removed your sins as far as to the East is to the West. As Christians, we need to live with a changed mind (repented) that we no longer have sin in our lives. If you think you still do, you are not living according to what scripture teaches. If Jesus Christ has removed your sins, then it is so even if you don't feel like it. It's not whether you feel like it but what God's word says that matters. Your feelings goes up and down in a day but God's word is consistent truth. If God's word says your sins have been wiped clean then received that truth even if your feelings tells you no. This is why Faith is so important. Do not downplay mental assent, it is very vital that you come into agreement with God on the matter of sin. Why? Because that foundational truth will determine whether you will live on shaky ground or solid ground spiritually.

I'm speaking on reality, not fantasy. When you live the Christian Life, you will fall and commit sin at times. If or when you do, here is the secret. ALWAYS remember the cross of our Lord. Confess your prayer in this manner;

"My Lord Jesus Christ, I thank you, the sin or wrong I've just recently committed, they have been judged at the cross and redeemed by your blood. I receive the forgiveness of sin you have provided. Help me to move on in my life by your Holy Spirit." This is the prayer of faith, your faith in Christ and it is scriptural. From my years of living with the Lord, I can tell you, It is no point for you to wallow, do remorse emotion or attempt to restitution SOP. Judas the betrayer went through all that sincerely but it didn't change him. IN fact it drove to commit the mother of all sin. The sin of self-righteousness, he thought by taking his own life, he could pay back to God. Only the blood of Christ matters to God, not even your obedience to God (though God wants obedience) can save you.

As long as you keep your eyes on Christ, I promise you by the word of God, nothing can shake your faith. Your prayers will be powerful. You will see God winning on your behalf in spiritual warfare against Satan and his forces of darkness.

Verse 3 When there are oppositions and there will be, remember how Christ endured. You are not alone. Every brother and sister in Christ in this world goes through all kind of challenges and oppositions. Every believer does, that is a promised stated in scripture. So take heart. Why? Because remember Christ has won against this world. Our Lord Jesus is really cool. He didn't allow oppositions to get the better of him, but sometime we do, being human. Our Lord Jesus Christ is the one we "NEED" to look up to. Not any pastors, not any saints, not any human being, no matter how good the person is.

Why consider Christ Jesus so that we won't grow weary and lose heart? It is to your own benefit that you study the life of Jesus Christ. You want to know how God the Father is, Jesus Christ is the exact representation. God is kind, and even when he convict, it is heart-warming, doesn't hurt his own sheep. When we are hard towards others, we hurt others. Look at the way He convict the Samaritan women at the well of her sins. He was divinely tactful. He complimented her, "you are right, that you have not one husband but five..." In the Greek, You have said rightly or honorably". Some of us expect tongue lashing, you wicked and adulterous person! But not so with Christ.

He could sternly force a pack of scheming Pharisees to back off in one instance, challenging them by saying, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first” (John 8:7). In the very next moment, this same Jesus could look straight into the eyes of a broken woman caught in adultery, and with compassion resonating deeply in His voice, ask her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you? Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more” (John 8:10–11).

This is what I meant, you will never find Jesus being angry with people who come to Him. This is my God.

God will never force you to do anything. Every time people reject him, he just move on to other places. God is a gentleman at heart when to comes to your free will. He will invite you and knock at your door. God will never barge your door down. If you expect that, you don't know God.

Christ came to heal the sick, deliver people from their demons and yet we can spit on Him, Mock Him using all kind of vulgarity. Yet Christ loves us. The Love of God is not natural, it is really out of this world and supernatural. This is why I choose to believe in Him over every other religion.

So consider Christ who faced against all oppositions for your sake. He faced them for the sake of your victory. Consider this perfect Hero who deserve all our praise.

I pray this devotion will help you. God Bless.


















TSunknown warrior
post Feb 21 2023, 09:42 AM

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When we talk about Holy Spirit convicting of sin, we need to teach in context and not just simply brush generally even if it sound right.


John 16:8 - 11 (NLT) - And when he comes, he will convict the world of its sin, and of God’s righteousness, and of the coming judgment. The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in me. Righteousness is available because I go to the Father, and you will see me no more. Judgment will come because the ruler of this world has already been judged.

The Holy Spirit convicts the world (Not believers) of sin because (verse 9) they refuse to believe in Christ. <---THIS conviction is for non believers.
The Holy Spirit convicts Righteousness available (to Believers) (verse 10) as Christ has ascended denoting Salvation, Sanctification, Holiness given once for all. <--THIS conviction is for believers.
The Holy Spirit convicts Judgement (to non believers) as they need to make choice, either accept Christ or the Devil. The devil has been judged. <---THIS conviction is for non believers.
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 21 2023, 02:46 PM

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You know, you can be saved anywhere, not necessary has to be in church building. Nowadays you can listen to sermon online even, the invitation for sinners prayer can be done right where you are. After all God is omnipresence.

Just for awareness, Salvation is the work of God. Normally it is the work of the Holy Spirit who convicts, calls the person to repentance and to prompt the person to confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Bible has made it clear if God is not the one who bring the person, he cannot come to God. So without a shadow of doubt, Salvation is spiritual work in nature. Salvation work stems from God himself. Which why I endeavor to tell people, there can be no mixture of Man's effort to qualify in attaining Salvation. God would not allowed it, none what so ever. He will not share such Glory.

Very clearly in the Bible, God tells us Salvation is a grace gift. We are saved by grace, not of ourselves. It is not just laws of Judaism but anything "not" of ourselves. Do you see the key word here?

With that being said, this is why repentance can never be a pre-requisite neither a criteria for Salvation. In contrast, I also never teach anyone, there is no need for repentance. One is talking about qualifying, One is talking about
cooperation with God for change. There is a huge difference here. I think many have a hard time differentiating this. The greatest opposition to this is always the question; if one does not repent, can one be saved? I will answer this question at the very last end. I hope you will understand at the end of it.

BTW Talking about repentance, most people would think repentance is only pertaining to sin. It is not. Repentance for the believer is going on all the time and not about sin but can also be about God as well. Example. you used to think God is only interested to catch you at your sin. But now you can think God is only interested in you for your good. That is also repentance. So don't just narrow it down to sin. It's not.

Walking to church and all that is not even relevant to the context, hence I don't know why it's being brought up, not unless you're missing the point.

If you know how to quote, it is by grace, you are able to walk into boat or obey God, I hope you understand what it means. Grace basically means God's favor given to you unmerited; If God is not the one who work in you, you won't be able to. If you could only understand the meaning here, you will soon realize, it would not be right of you to demand this or that. Do you know who you are demanding against really?

Water baptism is the same as baptism in the name of Jesus Christ. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is another matter altogether. In a nutshell it is the public declaration of our faith in Jesus Christ. We can all agree water baptism does not saves. For us, water Baptism is an outward public declaration to the natural world and the spiritual world (The Heavens) that one has step into, buried in death, step out of Sin penalty for death, rise again justified by Christ's finished work.

Romans 6:3-4 (NIV) - Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Colossians 2:12 (NIV) - having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Simply put, Baptism is we identifying with our Lord’s death, burial, and resurrection, and declaring that we have cross over into new life via our faith in God working. <--This is the correct context.
BTW we must always remember who is the one with power behind your faith. Your faith gives consent for God to work and God is the one producing fruits in your life.

In teaching I think it's important to be clear and to be sure in what we teach less people get confuse.

Sigh. Hebrews 11 is defining what faith is about. Water Baptism is not the thing that gives substance to faith. I don't know why this is even link to it.

NIV is quite good in defining it.

Hebrews 11:1 (NIV) - Now faith = confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

Meaning Faith = you are confident in what you hope for, will happen (though you do not see it yet). The assurance is liken that you have a title deed to a property, you know you have this inheritance.

Yes that kind of confidence. Why and How come? Well because the one behind the promise is God and God is faithful and does not lie.

The reason for Romans 5:19 is to let everyone know, God only recognize and accepts Christ's obedience as something valid for crediting righteousness to the believer. Doesn't make any sense to add in your obedience into the equation when none is provided for.

If there is still disagreement to all that I've said above then it's my turn to ask this.

Do you dare claim your obedience is perfect all the time to God? If you know you are not perfect all the time, how are you going to make it to heaven?

Do you see the problem here? The emphasize is on the believer's performances. When you feel you are strong, you think your obedience is what keeps you out of the penalty of sin. But when you fail, You want to turn back to Jesus, ask for forgiveness then repent, hoping that will save you?

When everything is ok, the onus is one you, but when fail, you go back to the One who is actually the real savior.

This is never the Gospel and it doesn't honor God at all. The Gospel is about Christ saving you 24/7, hence the meaning savior. This is why I keep asking, do you understand the meaning of Savior? Nobody seems to understand that.

That is why the Bible tells us to keep ourselves in Christ. This is what it means. Everyday when one wakes up, you can pray to God; there is a lot of saving to do in your life. And you know what? Such requests pleases God because it's not difficult for Him.

It's not about you maintaining your Salvation. You can't maintain it anyway because Salvation is Spiritual in nature. It takes a spiritual being (God) to keep you & to save you. You will be disqualify despite you trying to repent. You know why? You have completely ignore the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus which God the Father accepts as the only work that qualifies.

Take your time to digest before you attempt to react to this. Just digest this for few days.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Feb 21 2023, 03:20 PM
desmond2020
post Feb 22 2023, 09:39 AM

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Let see what you have there. unlimited atonement, irresistible grace, unconditional election and most notably eternal security.

correct? that look similar with what our friend, Joseph Prince down at the south enjoy preaching. Personally I have no much problem with Joseph as he didn't diehard pushing for donation like another brother down there. speaking of which, did that brother out of jail dy? anyway, i get that you want to tell audience in church things they like to hear but there is nothing you can pleased harden people. You see, some church in the attempt to please general population had gone to declare homosexual is not a sin and went through mental gymnastic to say that only the act of homosexuality out of lust is a sin.

that is just sad

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Feb 22 2023, 11:09 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 22 2023, 10:15 AM

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Morning Guys, Much Grace to all the readers here, every one of you, even my critic.

Thank you again for your contribution.

It's not my intention to boast about this but for your blessing, with the hope, you will also emulate this. I will share bits of my personal life, and some testimonies as time go by.

I seek The Lord every day. I commune with Him every single day if possible. Sure there are a couple of days missed in the month but I make it point that, it's a MUST to meet God every day. It's one of my Christian life's SOP. And you know what? You will never regret doing this.

You are never more blessed with God than without. I can testify, this is true in experience.

Because I was also seeking to end whatever argument there is about Salvation, The Lord gave me this particular verse and to me, it's a sign, He is also witnessing what is happening here.

Titus 3:5 (NIV) - He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

This verse is a strong indication, whatever righteous things we do, whether it's our obedience to God or our repentance to God or whatever it is, does not give us a right to Salvation.

There is only 1 reason why God give us Salvation. ONLY ONE REASON.

God saves us because of his mercy. <===THIS.

If God requires your obedience and your repentance, this verse would have said so.

With that being said, because there could be a new reader who did not follow from the beginning, does it mean no obedience or repentance is ever involved in your Christian living?

Of course not.

I urge obedience because of who God is. He is God Almighty. God is always right, He knows everything from beginning to end. So submit to one who has all the power and who knows everything. You will be wasting your time trying to pit against God. This will be true throughout eternity.

I urge repentance because we were never created to live in a fallen world where there is so much perversion. Satan has perverted the original design of God for living. Do you know, you were never meant to eat by the sweat of your brow? Meaning you won't have it easy? You were supposed to have it easy. Just one example of why repentance is needed. You need to change your mind (repent) and see how God sees things. This is for Christians, I said Christians ya? There are many things more. You might ask, what about sin?

I guess I'll have to prepare a devotion for that one of these weeks. But until then, remember;

We are saved for 1 single reason. One reason. God's mercy. It's who God is. He is merciful and loving.

God Bless.




SharpSword
post Feb 22 2023, 11:10 AM

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Mar 6 2023, 10:04 AM
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desmond2020
post Feb 22 2023, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(SharpSword @ Feb 22 2023, 11:10 AM)
Why left out Titus 2:11-12
For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lust we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world.

How are we taught the above if not by saying no to sin?
The works of righteousness refer in Titus3:5 is works that is based on the law. The gospel demands obedience to Christ in order to be saved.
The bible declares God gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey him.
This obedience to Christ is by the grace of God. It is the obedience of faith and not obedience of the law. When we try to obey the law apart from Christ there is no grace. But if through Christ we seek to obey God all grace is given.

Stop taking one verse and making doctrine out of it. Doctrine must not contradict any part of scripture.
*
most notably

And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules” (Ezekiel 36:22-27)

Hebrews 8:10 ESV
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.


The New Covenant Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”


2 Corinthians 3:3
3 And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.[a]

Psalm 51:10 ESV
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.

Hebrews 10:16 ESV
“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,”

SharpSword
post Feb 22 2023, 11:51 AM

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Mar 6 2023, 10:04 AM
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SharpSword
post Feb 22 2023, 12:05 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Feb 22 2023, 11:30 AM)
most notably

And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules” (Ezekiel 36:22-27)

Hebrews 8:10 ESV
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
The New Covenant Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
2 Corinthians 3:3
3 And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.[a]

Psalm 51:10 ESV
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.

Hebrews 10:16 ESV
“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,”
*
On the same page as you. Thank you.

prophetjul
post Feb 22 2023, 01:39 PM

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QUOTE
God's mercy. It's who God is. He is merciful and loving


Indeed. WE live by God's mercy and love upon us all.
OTOH God is also Holy and Righteous. Holiness and Righteousness demands obedience to God.
Obedience is better than sacrifice.

Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams” (1 Sam. 15:22).
SharpSword
post Feb 22 2023, 02:03 PM

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Mar 6 2023, 10:02 AM
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TSunknown warrior
post Feb 22 2023, 02:33 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Feb 22 2023, 09:39 AM)
Let see what you have there. unlimited atonement, irresistible grace, unconditional election and most notably eternal security.

correct? that look similar with what our friend, Joseph Prince down at the south enjoy preaching. Personally I have no much problem with Joseph as he didn't diehard pushing for donation like another brother down there. speaking of which, did that brother out of jail dy? anyway, i get that you want to tell audience in church things they like to hear but there is nothing you can pleased harden people. You see, some church in the attempt to please general population had gone to declare homosexual is not a sin and went through mental gymnastic to say that only the act of homosexuality out of lust is a sin.

that is just sad
*
Pastor KongHee? I think he's out and preaching ady. laugh.gif

Last I checked on England's Church they're not allowed to perform any marriage rites for homosexuals but they're open to blessing those couples which sends mixed messages to the world.

When I think about it, Yes Sad indeed.

ON the other hand though, check out Asbury revival. God reviving Students!

That is something not seen for a while.
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 22 2023, 03:06 PM

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Sorry but I don't agree Titus 3 verse 5 is talking about works of the Law. laugh.gif

It says there works in righteousness, referring to righteous things done which is correct. If it was on the law it would have said law.

And the phrase "ergon" in Greek can refer to any kind of righteous action or deed.

In Titus 2, the Grace of God is actually the person of Christ. Grace can also refer to God's kindness.

God's kindness teaches us to say no to ungodliness, not any human teacher. Try to think about that. laugh.gif

Yet nothing is indicative in there is saying your obedience to God is a criterion or pre-requisite for Salvation. Titus 3 verse 5 clearly says it.

Sorry but I think I do know somewhat about doctrine. And I think you are not that familiar with the purpose of God's Law.

It's hinted when you say if you try to obey the Law without Christ there is no grace but via Christ, there is all grace given. That is an error.

The Bible never teaches such.

SharpSword
post Feb 22 2023, 03:33 PM

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Mar 6 2023, 10:02 AM
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TSunknown warrior
post Feb 22 2023, 04:12 PM

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I don't know maybe I misunderstood the part where you said "When we try to obey the law apart from Christ there is no grace". I'm thinking this is the context in relation to the next sentence of obeying God via Christ then all grace is given.

Why bring law into the equation? I think It shouldn't be relevant at all.

Sure Christ did not come to abolish the Law but to uphold it and no one can remove it.

Yet only He alone was qualified to fulfill it. No one else could.

And the law was given for a sole purpose, note on "sole".

Do you know what it's for?


SharpSword
post Feb 22 2023, 04:22 PM

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Law has more than one purpose. It serves as temporary restraint. It reveals God's will and holiness. And of course the law reveal man's sinful nature and that includes inability to keep the law. It reveals we are under judgement also points us to Christ. . I don't have the exhaustive list.

This post has been edited by SharpSword: Feb 22 2023, 04:22 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 23 2023, 09:27 PM

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Blessings everyone.

How everyone doing?

To be honest I'm quite lazy to do long winded argument. Let's just agree to disagree.

The whole problem with this, I'm seeing repeated and recycled pattern. I've been here long enough to know exactly what is going on.

I've been in this forum for 18 years but I've been a Christian much longer than that.

Thank you for the old comrades in here for being graceful in not stirring up the pot hotter.

For me Law is basic, grace is the deeper end. I've been where you have been, understand completely where you're coming from, been there, done that.

While I understand the importance of obedience to God I think you're not reading me properly. I think what usually happens in cases like this, they usually read quickly, skimp a lot don't bother to read slowly. So a lot of miscomprehension happens. I think this guy think I'm saying obedience isn't important. I didn't imply such.

I did say the believer's obedience cannot be a requirement or pre-requisite for Salvation because pre-dominantly what saves us is the blood of Christ, Christ sacrifice on the cross. Faith in that is what saves and it's because of God's mercy, nothing of us in any form, what so ever.

And I also said these below.


» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Yet the way of how it is being argued against me is as if I'm discounting obedience to God, IE...as not important.

Sigh.

BTW.

The Sole purpose of God's Law is to give strength to Sin or to empower sin. That will lead to all it's other functions.




TSunknown warrior
post Feb 23 2023, 09:40 PM

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Asbury Revival. It's happening non-stop for weeks.

This is quite important for our Christian world.
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 23 2023, 10:09 PM

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I think we can start the ball rolling.

Testimony time.

Would like to hear any believer's in here.

Anything on your experience with The Lord.


Grape Seed X
post Feb 24 2023, 04:59 PM

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[quote=unknown warrior,Feb 11 2023, 10:37 AM]
cut* even after being saved, you will do some ungodly things and I don't mean to discourage or discredit you. I'm talking reality. Talking about real Christian life processes.

God justify the Ungodly's faith. Think about that. Let this sink in.

No doing of yours...IE your obedience will merit you for Salvation. You can self justify and say it's a "response to faith" you can use whatever words but at the core of it, this theology does not solve this problem: you know you're going to heaven because you "acted" right before God. And that is "Works" my friend.

cut*

God Bless. [/color]
*

[/quote]


[quote=unknown warrior,Feb 17 2023, 10:15 AM]
Jesus Christ wants to be savior, not as an example, teacher or prophet PART 4


One of the greatest flaws is that such erroneous teaching, it puts the onus of the workload on the believer to perform. Yes as indicated they will use the words; repentance is the response to faith and it's not works. These teaching are really contradicting if not in denial of their own meanings.

Faith is the pre-requisite. Change of heart or Fruits of the spirit are the works of God. We cannot use fruits as pre-requisite for salvation because everyone is a work in progress. There are no instantaneous change next day over night. Trying to disagree or refute that is akin to wanting to see beard being grown on babies.

cut*

Luke 19:9 (NIV) - Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham

Those of faith, these are the sons of Abraham. (Galatians 3:7)
So to sum it all up, remember:


4. Don't judge another brethren who are still WIP with contempt.





[quote=unknown warrior,Feb 20 2023, 08:20 AM]
Blessings everyone, grace and peace to all of you, including LS advocates.

I'm going by scripture.
cut*

We don't obey God to get Saved.

The works of Salvation is of spiritual nature, something I would say ..to make it plain and simple; is pure if not holy where there can be no mixture of any of Man's performances or effort. It is God's Work.

If God require Man's obedience to be saved, it would be recorded in the Bible but it's not there. God alone is the one saving you.


See the problem?

And yes, to the other brother has comprehension problem, I said you will not find Jesus being angry towards any sinners who come to Him, you won't find it in the Bible. So what happen next? he go and post 2 article of talking about God's wrath and anger by the phrase "someone said jesus was never angry".

That is indeed comprehension problem.
*

[/quote]


[quote=unknown warrior,Feb 20 2023, 03:22 PM]
You know with regards to James 2 Faith without works is dead?

The works here couple with faith is needed I believe to accomplish God's needed work here on earth.

The work to provide for the needy or poor, to minister to someone. <---Context.

It's not about to attain Salvation.
*

[/quote]


[quote=unknown warrior,Feb 20 2023, 04:16 PM]
Yes context is important.

cut*

Christians are sanctified by Christ blood once and for all. I don't believe God's grace is just initial and after that it's up to you, whether you get Salvation or not depends on how good you obey, repented or performed, That to me degrade the finish work of Christ if not insulting the spirit of his grace. It also makes it a Man based Salvation rather than God's finished work.

whatever sin we commit as Christian, words spoken or acted...the Blood of Christ avails and speaks for us.

cut*

PS:

For Christians, the type of account that we need to give to the Father determine our rewards or no rewards in Heaven. doh.gif It's not to punish us to eternal condemnation.
*

[/quote]


[quote=unknown warrior,Feb 21 2023, 09:27 AM]
What does fixing our eyes on Christ means?



It is not you conjuring your own effort, gritting your teeth, using self discipline, using your own will power to refrain from sin. If you think that this is so, friend, you have not been reading the Bible right. PM me for more info on this and I'll gladly update you.

I'm speaking on reality, not fantasy. When you live the Christian Life, you will fall and commit sin at times. If or when you do, here is the secret. ALWAYS remember the cross of our Lord. Confess your prayer in this manner;

cut*

I pray this devotion will help you. God Bless.[/color]
*

[/quote]


[quote=unknown warrior,Feb 22 2023, 03:06 PM]
Sorry but I don't agree Titus 3 verse 5 is talking about works of the Law. laugh.gif

cut*

Yet nothing is indicative in there is saying your obedience to God is a criterion or pre-requisite for Salvation. Titus 3 verse 5 clearly says it.

Sorry but I think I do know somewhat about doctrine. No you don't! And I think you are not that familiar with the purpose of God's Law.

It's hinted when you say if you try to obey the Law without Christ there is no grace but via Christ, there is all grace given. That is an error.

The Bible never teaches such.
*

[/quote]


[quote=unknown warrior,Feb 23 2023, 09:27 PM]
Blessings everyone.

How everyone doing?

To be honest I'm quite lazy to do long winded argument. Let's just agree to disagree.

The whole problem with this, I'm seeing repeated and recycled pattern. I've been here long enough to know exactly what is going on. No you don't! You are clueless.

I've been in this forum for 18 years but I've been a Christian much longer than that. And yet you learnt NOTHING on your journey

Thank you for the old comrades in here for being graceful in not stirring up the pot hotter.

cut*

The Sole purpose of God's Law is to give strength to Sin or to empower sin. That will lead to all it's other functions.

*

[/quote]

your exposition of Christianity has left me . . . . speechless mega_shok.gif so near & yet so far. truly, what a pity.
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 25 2023, 01:34 PM

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Ok, my testimony.

Must give praise to God.

Yesterday night my car tyre hit a deep hole, the tyre became flat.

Good thing it happened near my house so I could easily drove back, and change to spare.

The hardest part was unscrewing the wheel nuts. First 3 came off with much strenuous effort.

But the last nut...no matter how hard i tried, it won't budge. Was completely exhausted to the point, near to fainting already.

Really out of breath, out of strength. Was thinking of calling it a night and try next day BUT!!!!

I prayed to The Lord to ask help..... to send Angel to help me.

And it really happened!

The last one came off without the exerted strength I did on first 3. It came off much easier.

Thank you Heavenly Father. This is to testify your goodness and your reality! notworthy.gif

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Feb 25 2023, 01:36 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 27 2023, 08:47 AM

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Roll it away

Proverbs 16:9 (NIV) - In their hearts humans plan their course, but the LORD establishes their steps.

Morning guys, how u guys doing?

This verse, confirms the way how God's principles works, the way of God's kingdom.

We can have all kind of intentions we want but unless God is the one who establishes them, you won't really go far with your plans or intentions.

Verse 3 of Proverbs 16 tells us to commit to God our intention/plans. The word commit in Hebrew is "galal" which means to roll away.

Roll it away to God. Roll it away in faith, believing in God's goodness that He will answer you for your good, even if it's a No, it's "still" for your good.

God Bless.

TSunknown warrior
post Feb 27 2023, 11:29 AM

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Sons of Law will persecute Sons of Grace

Galatians 4:19 (NIV) - At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now.

To make it easy to understand on everything that I've shared, it can be summarised as below.

The Old Testament Law is on you to perform before God to be bless or cursed. It all depends on you. Thus "You Shall Not, You Shall Not, You Shall Not...."
The New Testament Grace is on God to provide and bless. It all depends on God's goodness. Thus "I will, I will, I will....(I here refers to God Himself)"

By right as new testament believers we are suppose to take up all that God has offer under that covenant. However there will be oppositions to this and it is not surprising. This is foretold by scripture.

In book of Galatians, Apostle Paul established Grace is the Gospel (Galatians 1:6 NIV - I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel). He also established what he teaches on Grace was revealed to Him by Christ Jesus Himself (Verse 12) Grace is actually God's own agenda, not Apostle Paul's own idea.

In Galatians 4, Apostle Paul was frustrated that Galatians believers wanted to go back God's Law, ie the basis of Mens doing or performances to be saved. Hence he wrote about Faith vs Works of the Law. Yes Paul indicated there has to be a clear separation, is no mixture allowed. You can read this in chapter 3 and 4.

I'm not surprised that today there is still this idea; that those who try to obey God's OT Law without Christ, there is no grace and implying if they do via Christ there is grace. This is erroneous because God's OT Holy Law was never given for such an intention in 1st place. This was made revealed in

Galatians 5:4 (KJV) - Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

This verse tells us Grace is Higher than God's Law (The idea of fallen). This is why I said, The OT Law is basic, Grace is much higher. It's terrible when Christ is of no effect to the believer and we don't want this. With that being said, as NT believers we need to look away from God's OT Law.

Galatians 3:2 (NIV) Tell us
I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

Works of the Law here indicated you put your trust in your doing. It's Law mentality.

And Galatians 3:5 (NIV) again reinforced this doctrine

So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard.

There you go, you receive God's Holy Spirit and God's works of miracles by believing what you heard. There is no other way to receive this.

And those who try to reinforced Law Mentality will persecute sons of Grace. It happened in OT time all the way to NT time and until today. Galatians 4:29 the main theme of Today's devotion tells us that.

The basis of God's blessing coming to us is because we believe what we heard. Faith In hebrews 11 defines this believe. In principle it is the same with receiving Salvation!

I understand completely why there is this insistence that Repentance & Obedience must go hand in hand to qualify for Salvation. Believe me I understand it completely. I know you want people to repent and to obey God but you don't realize what you are insisting will not achieve that result as it is not God's way. Repentance, Obedience & Salvation is never granted on the basis of your doings. This is where you have missed it completely.

I do not give 1 verse to make a doctrine. In case you missed it, I give many verses to reinforce it. The problem with my critiques is that they do not read properly, properly as in slowly. They skim read very fast causing a lot of misunderstanding. This is where some believers are divided, each claiming others being ignorant, not understanding the Bible, we are accused of not knowing doctrine, etc.

Yet according to scripture, those who persecute us are on the wrong side.

Even the parables of the prodigal son as told by Christ Jesus Himself attest to this in Luke 15. There is this revelation of the older brother which not many are familiar with.

This older son came back from field's work and heard "music and dancing". Asking God's servant what is this "celebration" is all about, he was told the wayward son came back and God the Father accepted him back with much grace. And instead of being happy for that long lost brother, he got angry instead. <===THIS. This being levelled against us.

Take a good look at the reaction of this older son then I hope this will convict you. Look at verse 28 all the way to 32

QUOTE
28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’

31“ ‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ ”


The word "slaving" in Hebrews "douleuó" means "I am a slave, am subject to, obey, am devoted"

God the Father actually had to go out and plead with this older child. This older son actually think he has access to God the Father because he was serving faithfully and obedient. (there you go, servitude and obedient). He didn't understand the heart of the Father. If one could understand, God is indeed a Good God and very Graceful. This older son actually in reality already has access to God despite of his servitude or obedience. The basis of his access was actually God's Grace.

What Law mentality believers don't realize is the danger. It could lead to the sin of self righteousness, thinking they deserve all these "because" they repented or obeyed.
You can claim that you don't, you acknowledge grace is the basis Of Salvation, you can say many things, You can say I'm so near but so far...doesn't matter. What matters is that theology must conform to the workings of God. And all that will be attested.

Attest to whether the fruits of Holy Spirit is evident in your life or it's just all clanging sounds you accuse we sons of Sarah? If you think your theology is the correct one, how is your spiritual life at this moment? Are you still struggling with sin of pornography? Are you still struggling with lust? Are your words..words of grace or still have vulgarity in it? Does your conversation have hints of sexual immorality, impurity, or of greed? Does it involve obscenity, foolish talk, or crude joking just to impress others? Is your mind at peace or still have oppressions at times causing you to lash out at others?

I'm not trying to boast but I want to testify God has indeed delivered me from those. And I heavily attest, it has nothing to do with me. Not even my attempt to repent or be obedient to God.

Just my simple but consistent believing in God's grace via sincere prayers to Him. This attest to truth of scripture.

May God give you insight on this.












TSunknown warrior
post Feb 27 2023, 02:35 PM

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The surety of the believer's Salvation

1 John 5:13 (NIV) - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

It saddens me greatly when I read christian writings somewhere along the line of such...

"At the end of the day we hope to get saved". <==== This is never the posture of a Christian.

What does the Bible teach on surety of Salvation?

1 John 5:13 the main theme of this devotion can't be any clearer than this.

The Bible was written so that you may KNOW you have eternal life. Not perhaps or maybe.

You want to know what leads to believers being unsure?

It's when you mix law and grace into the equation, qualifying for Salvation. When you add in anything of yourself into the equation, of course there will be uncertainty. I mean duh?

As I've said before, of course obedience and repentance are both very important. But You must have proper revelation as to why they are important.

But with regards to this devotion I want to ask you this important question; how consistent is your obedience before God?

Quite sure there are times you are not obedient, quite sure there are times you sin willfully? What then is your basis for entering Heaven then as believer in Christ when you fail? This is a deep question to ponder. You want to turn tail and now fall back on your repentance to God as the fitting criteria? How many times you want to repent in a day or the whole year enough to know that you will qualify? 10 times? 100 times? 1000000 times? <== something for you to reflect on as well.

* If you claim to be perfect and have never been disobedient or have never sin even after conversion, I call that a lie.

So to those who are adamant that obedience and repentance must be a pre-requisite or criteria for Salvation, all the best to those who believe in such doctrine. I'm 100% sure it will lead to uncertainty in qualifying for Salvation. If you disagree then refer to *


How then does the Bible teaches us to be sure on Salvation?

Very Simple, as I've shared many times; follow what the Bible teaches.

Hebrews 12:2 (NIV) - fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

It never say, you are the pioneer and perfecter of your own faith. Hint at your obedience.

This is the position that I take before God's throne of grace when it comes to Salvation. Everyday!

I fix my eyes on Christ. I always thank God the Father for Christ Jesus, for the cross. IE to have removed all my sins as far as from the East is to the West. I believe in Christ's death & resurrection who represent Me. Christ's resurrection proves justification that all my sins have been put away. I put my faith in God's work, not mine. In fact I discount mine to nothing. <===This is also key.

You will note that every scripture verses that promise Salvation have all this in common. Which is to believe in Him (Christ Jesus).

John 5:24 (NIV) - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Because I know God will not go back on his word and is incapable of lying, I know with certainty, what God promised, it is mine!

Because my faith is on the assured foundation of Christ Jesus, this caused me to be unshakeable. Because I've been made unshakable I then put into practice of what God ask of me, knowing all that I do for Him will not be in vain.

There are so many things that God asks us to do. But when done it in surety of God's Salvation, you know that you know God is with us. We all want changes. We all want obedience and repentance but do take note those are graces that are enabled from God. If God does not work in you, your obedience is only temporal, falling back on your own strength. In there is inconsistency.

The Holy Spirit will only attest to the truth of God's Word. Meaning He only comes in and work according to God's truth. The Holy Spirit cannot act base on a lie.

For example If scripture says God works his miracle because we believe what we heard then this is the truth The Holy Spirit will attest to. Trying to add in any addition to that verse and make it a different meaning, God's Spirit will do nothing. Anyway that is added in for snippet on next devotion. "The working of God's Spirit".

Faith is the root, Acted repentance are God's fruits. So don't enforce what is of God's working into a criteria. It would not be right.

God Bless.








SharpSword
post Feb 27 2023, 04:15 PM

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Mar 6 2023, 10:03 AM
This post has been deleted by unknown warrior because: misconstruing

Roman Catholic
post Feb 27 2023, 07:09 PM

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Just be born again je la. That is a surety already.
desmond2020
post Feb 28 2023, 09:03 AM

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wow wow wow

I am gonna post a article by catholic again, to demonstrate that even catholic is closer to truth then you are

Where Is “Eternal Security” in the Bible? Hint: Nowhere
LEILA MILLER • 5/19/2017


A little over twenty years ago, as a young wife and mother, I was ready to leave the Catholic Church and become a “Bible Christian.” Like most Generation-X American Catholics, I was poorly catechized and had no real foundation for understanding the Faith. My best friend—a former radical feminist—recently had a conversion to Christ and began attending an evangelical Bible church down the road, and I was days away from joining her.

I was all but gone when the Holy Spirit intervened through my mother. Mom told me to “find out what you’re leaving before you leave it” and handed me a book of apologetics (something I never knew existed). It was Karl Keating’s Catholicism and Fundamentalism. I was blown away by the logic and truth I found in those pages, and I quickly made a return to the Catholic faith.

However, my friend was still firmly convinced of Protestant theology, and we began discussions that were essentially a two-person mini-rehash of the Reformation. Much of the fundamentalist doctrine she embraced made no logical sense to me—including the concept of “once saved, always saved,” also known as eternal security.


In short, eternal security is the idea that once a person has “accepted Jesus Christ as personal Lord and Savior,” that’s it. Salvation is a done deal—the soul is heaven-bound, with no turning back, no matter how badly he may sin. Even a free-will decision to reject Christ after being “saved” is apparently not allowed by God.

I knew by then that salvation is not a numbers game or a formula of “speak these words one time and you will go straight to heaven and those who don’t will go to hell.” No, salvation is not a hoop to jump through; rather it’s a personal love relationship with Christ, the Beloved. Not only does “once saved, always saved” undermine the nature of love itself—which must be freely given and freely received or else we are slaves—it also contradicts Scripture.

To prove it to myself at the time, I took down my bright red New American Bible, took a pink highlighter in hand, and started reading through the New Testament epistles, underlining everything that contradicted eternal security.

And boy, there was a lot.

Below are just a few of the lines I highlighted back then. The pink ink is faded and bleeding a bit now, but the words underneath still powerfully point to the truth that the gift of our salvation may, because of our God-given free will and dignity, be continued or refused.

St. Paul said to the believing Christians (the “saved”) of his time:

Romans 11:22: “Consider the kindness and severity of God—severity toward those who fell, and kindness toward you, provided you remain in his kindness; if you do not, you too will be cut off.”

Galatians 6:9: “Let us not grow weary of doing good; if we do not relax our efforts, in due time we shall reap our harvest.”

Philippians 2:12: “So then, my dearly beloved, obedient as always to my urging, work with anxious concern to achieve your salvation.”

1 Timothy 1:19: “Some men, by rejecting the guidance of conscience, have made shipwreck of their faith.”

1 Timothy 4:16: “Watch yourself and watch your teaching. Persevere at both tasks. By doing so you will bring to salvation yourself and all who hear you.”

Similarly, the author of Hebrews is clearly not working in a “once saved, always saved” paradigm when he speaks to believing Christians:

Hebrews 4:1: “Therefore, while the promise of entrance into his rest still holds, we ought to be fearful of disobeying lest any one of you be judged to have lost his chance of entering.”

Hebrews 4:11: “Let us strive to enter into that rest, so that no one may fall.”

St. Peter describes the miserable lot of those who know Christ as Savior but later fall away:

2 Peter 2:20: “When men have fled a polluted world by recognizing the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and then are caught up and overcome in pollution once more, their last condition is worse than their first.”

There are several more highlights in my tattered old NAB, so many that at a certain point I stopped highlighting, but you get the idea: The concept of “eternal security” was not a Christian doctrine back then, nor is it now. The idea that we can never lose our salvation after “accepting Jesus Christ” came as a novel and dangerous falsehood during the Protestant heresies of the sixteenth century, a millennia and a half after Christ founded his Church.

My friend who attended the “Bible church” was eventually able to see the truth of Catholicism and converted, as did her Protestant husband and her parents. They, and all of us, hold joyfully to the great hope of our own salvation, while never forgetting the need to persevere in our love of Christ, heeding the words of St. Paul:

“So then, my dearly beloved, obedient as always to my urging, work with anxious concern to achieve your salvation” (Phil. 2:12).
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 28 2023, 12:43 PM

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When you are strong, God backs away, but when you cannot, God comes in - The working of God's Spirit

2 Corinthians 12:9 (NIV) - But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.

Hi Everyone, God's Grace to you and your love ones.

Today we will talk on how to get God's Holy Spirit to work in us. 2 Corinthians 12:9 tells us how. God will not work in you if you try to be strong in yourself. As Christians, we need to always come to a place of vulnerability. There will be people who don't like this. Nobody likes to be vulnerable but it's the only way for God to work in us.

In the natural we may feel ashamed for weaknesses but not so with God. God delights in our weaknesses. God loves to use the weak things. So if you have many many weaknesses, guess what? You're a good candidate for God to work in.

And it's vital to understand unless God works in the person, there can be no fruits or results. We all want changes, we all want obedience and repentance even.
For that to happen, God must work in your life. <==Where is the basis for this theology that says unless God is the one, you cannot?

Well look at this verse.

Philippians 2:13 (NIV) - for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

And this verse.

John 15:5 (NIV) - “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

With all that being said it is also important to know; in order for The Holy Spirit to work in you, you need to be connected to God. I mean that is obvious.
And in order to be connected to God, you need to know your new position in Christ

As believers in Christ, you must understand your sins have been put away by Christ's blood on the cross. This will take a bit of explaining. But it's important to know.

Our new position = We have been washed cleaned. This is the position you must hold fast to. Don't allow anyone to convince you out of it. You need to repent and believe this. I'll explain later why this is important.

As born again believer, you may not be perfect and may fail here or there. But understand your new position. Your failure(s) does not define you. Christ Jesus now defines you. <== This.
The bible states very clearly. Christ is not going come down from heaven again to die on the cross every time you fail. The Salvation offered on the cross is not confined to the limit of time nor natural space. It avails anytime anywhere.

QUOTE
Hebrews 9:24-26 (NIV) -
24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.


As born again believer, If you failed, Pray like this; " Abba in Heaven, I thank you for the cross. The sin (you can name it, whatever it was) that I've just committed has been judged by you at the cross and has been redeemed by Christ's blood. I receive your forgiveness and repent of it, help me to move on by your holy spirit.

Then pray this prayer.

"Abba in Heaven, I have no power to overcome this sin. I have absolutely no strength to abstain from it. I will surely fail if I even try to abstain. I ask for the work of your Holy Spirit in this weakness. Take away that wrongful desire or sinful desire. I don't want it. According to your word, I gladly admit this is my weakness, let your grace and strength rest on me. Fill my mind with what is only virtuous, good and clean thoughts from heaven.

It may be a bit confusing at the beginning but just understand 2 fundamental truth.

1. Christ Jesus has taken care of your sin. Don't try do anything to contradict this.

2. God's Holy Spirit will only work in you when you relent and surrender that you cannot.

Why is weakness so important? God cannot save the person who is strong. As analogy, You cannot save a drowning person who is struggling with his might, both will be in danger of drowning. You can only save when he/she stops struggling and allow to be saved. Hope this simple analogy helps.

God's principles is the opposite of this world. In this world, we look to the strongest, the fastest, the tallest. What Man esteem is something that God doesn't.

Anyway, there you have it, the working of God's Holy Spirit. This is how we get to repentance and obedience.

God Bless.






TSunknown warrior
post Feb 28 2023, 01:22 PM

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laugh.gif

Philippians 2:12 must be made to understand in entire context.

Posting just that verse alone may imply you need to work out to achieve Salvation. (implying you haven arrive there yet)

But it's not the case if you read the entire chapter.

From the beginning of Philippians 2, in Verse 1, it talks about if we have any encouragement from being united with Christ.

What does that mean?

Well you have been given Salvation. (Being united with Christ?) If you are encouraged in that, then encourage others too. tongue.gif

It then goes on to talk about the humility of Christ and how God exalt Christ to the highest place and given a Name that is above all other names.

Because you have been given Salvation therefore work it out. You can test the logic, If you have not been given Salvation, you can't even work it out. doh.gif

And what does working out Salvation involves? What is the context? Well it's in the next verse (Verse 13)

13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

That is right! Allowing God to work in you as outlined in my latest devotion.

And interestingly Fear and Trembling? It may sound alarming and panicky but it is not.

The context for those 2 stems from reverence unto God. Same as Fear of the Lord. We all know it's not fear as in scared of or feared because of dangerous creature like snakes.

There you go. notworthy.gif






desmond2020
post Feb 28 2023, 01:31 PM

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that is strange, someone with all those single bible verse sermon saying context is important. which is much in irony.

and later Paul write in next chapter:-

12 Not that I have already [g]grasped it all or have already become perfect, but I press on if I may also take hold of that [h]for which I was even taken hold of by Christ Jesus. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not regard myself as having taken hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Therefore, all who are [i]mature, let’s have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that to you as well; 16 however, let’s keep [j]living by that same standard to which we have attained.

17 Brothers and sisters, join in following my example, and observe those who walk according to the pattern you have in us. 18 For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even as I weep, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ, 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their [k]appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who have their minds on earthly things. 20 For our [l]citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the body of our lowly condition into conformity with [m]His glorious body, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

Well, you all can read what it means

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Feb 28 2023, 01:44 PM
desmond2020
post Feb 28 2023, 01:34 PM

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so pastor, if we are convinced we are free of sin due to blood of christ, then even if we do sin then that sin is already been forgiven?

in other word, jesus die on the cross for our sins, past, present and future?

is it true that, once one is saved, there is no sins he can do to cause him lost his salvation?
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 28 2023, 01:50 PM

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Let me put it into perspective that make sense to reason it out.

If you are saved, why do you want to sin? I mean, think about it.

It doesn't make sense to say that you are saved but you still want to sin. That sentence is not even logical in itself because it is self-contradicting.

Perhaps there maybe situation where the Gospel was offered in such a way...You can be saved in the Name of Christ but was not told of the complete gospel which is to repent from sin. I pin that on the one who shared the gospel wrongly.

Normally if you share the gospel correctly, sin would have been brought up, hence it would not be the issue.

Either you were never saved in the first place or you were shared with incomplete gospel.

I believe born again believers understand sin is wrong and thus it is a no no.








desmond2020
post Feb 28 2023, 01:50 PM

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oh, and let see what John Mcacthur said

work out your salvation with fear and trembling; (2:12e)The fifth motive for believers’ working out their sanctification is understanding the consequences of sin. Although God is loving, merciful, and forgiving, He nevertheless holds believers accountable for disobedience. Like John, Paul understood well that “if we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:8–9). Knowing that he serves a holy and just God, the faithful believer will always live with fear and trembling. Fear translates phobos, which describes fright or terror (cf. Matt. 14:26; Luke 21:26; 1 Cor. 2:3) as well as reverential awe (cf. Acts 2:43; 9:31; 2 Cor. 5:11; 7:1). Trembling is from tromos, which refers to shaking and is the word from which the English word tremor derives. Both of those are proper reactions to the awareness of one’s own spiritual weakness and the power of temptation. The Lord seeks such an attitude in His children, as His words in Isaiah 66:2 indicate: “To this one I will look, to him who is humble and contrite of spirit, and who trembles at My word.”

An important Old Testament truth is “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom” (Ps. 111:10; cf. Prov. 1:7; 9:10). This is not a fear of being doomed to eternal torment, nor a hopeless dread of judgment that leads to despair. It is rather a reverential fear, a holy concern to give God the honor He deserves and avoid the chastening of His displeasure. Such fear protects against temptation and sin and gives motivation for obedient, righteous living.

Aware of his own personal weakness, Paul spoke of his “fear and … trembling” as he ministered to the church in Corinth (1 Cor. 2:3), and later of those believers who received Titus with the same kind of “fear and trembling” (2 Cor. 7:15). This kind of “fear and trembling” is closely related both to obedience to the Lord and to love and affection for Him and for fellow believers. It is for that reason that Solomon could declare: “How blessed [happy] is the man who fears always” (Prov. 28:14).

Such fear involves self-distrust, a sensitive conscience, and being on guard against temptation. It necessitates opposing pride, and being constantly aware of the deceitfulness of one’s heart, as well as of the subtlety and strength of one’s inner corruption. It is a dread that seeks to avoid anything that would offend and dishonor God.

Believers should have a serious dread of sin and yearning for what is right before God (cf. Rom. 7:14ff.). Aware of their weakness and the power of temptation, they should fear falling into sin and thereby grieving the Lord. Godly fear protects them from wrongfully influencing fellow believers, compromising their ministry and testimony to the unbelieving world, enduring the Lord’s chastening, and from sacrificing joy.

To have such godly fear and trembling involves more than merely acknowledging one’s sinfulness and spiritual weakness. It is the solemn, reverential fear that springs from deep adoration and love. It acknowledges that every sin is an offense against holy God and produces a sincere desire not to offend and grieve Him, but to obey, honor, please, and glorify Him in all things. Those who fear the Lord willingly accept the Lord’s chastening, knowing that God “disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness” (Heb. 12:10). This fear and trembling will cause believers to pray earnestly for God’s help in avoiding sin, as the Lord taught them: “Do not lead us into temptation, but deliver [rescue] us from evil” (Matt. 6:13). That prayer again reflects the spiritual tension that exists between believers’ duty and God’s power.

Work out translates a present middle imperative of katergazomai and indicates a command that has a continuing emphasis. The idea is, “Keep on working out to completion, to ultimate fulfillment.” Heauton, here rendered your, actually has the more emphatic meaning of “your own.” The command is for believers to make a continuing, sustained effort to work out to ultimate completion their salvation, which has been graciously granted to them by God through their faith in Jesus Christ.

The principle of working out salvation has two aspects. The first pertains to personal conduct, to faithful, obedient daily living. Such obedience obviously involves active commitment and personal effort, for which Scripture is replete with injunctions, both negative and positive. Sin in every form is to be renounced and put off and replaced by righteous thinking. Believers are to cleanse themselves “from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God” (2 Cor. 7:1), setting their minds “on the things above, not on the things that are on earth,” because they have died to sin and their lives are now “hidden with Christ in God” (Col. 3:2–3). Just as they once “presented [their] members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness,” they should “now present [their] members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification” (Rom. 6:19), walking “in a manner worthy of the calling with which [they] have been called” (Eph. 4:1).

The apostle exhorted the Corinthians to strenuous effort in living the Christian life: Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified. (1 Cor. 9:24–27)His words later in the present letter also demand aggressive Christian living: Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you; however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained. (Phil. 3:12–16)He exhorted Timothy: “Flee from these [evil] things, you man of God, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, perseverance and gentleness. Fight the good fight of faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called, and you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses” (1 Tim. 6:11–12; cf. 4:15–16; Heb. 12:1–3). To the Colossians Paul wrote: So, those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you. And beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity. Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful. Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God. Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father. (Col. 3:12–17; cf. vv. 5–11)If living the Christian life were merely a matter of passive yielding and surrender, of “letting go and letting God,” then such admonitions not only would be superfluous but presumptuous. But those injunctions, and countless others like them throughout God’s Word, presuppose believers’ personal responsibility for obedience. They must choose to live righteously, to work out their salvation in daily living, while at the same time realizing that all the power for that obedience comes from God’s Spirit.

The second aspect of working out one’s salvation is perseverance, of faithful obedience to the end. Salvation has three time dimensions: past, present, and future. The past dimension is that of justification, when believers placed their faith in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord and were redeemed. The present dimension is sanctification, the time between a believer’s justification and his death or the Rapture. The future aspect is glorification, when salvation is completed and believers receive their glorified bodies. Believers therefore have been saved, are being saved, and will be saved. They are to pursue sanctification in this life to the time of glorification. In that glorious moment believers will see the Lord “face to face” and come to know fully even as they are fully known (1 Cor. 13:12). They “will be like Him, because [they] will see Him just as He is” (1 John 3:2). It was for that glorious moment that Paul so deeply longed. Looking forward to that time he exclaimed: More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil. 3:8–14)Because the fulfillment of that hope was a divinely decreed certainty, Paul could say with complete confidence that “salvation is nearer to us than when we believed” (Rom. 13:11). Although it is not yet completed, the testimony of Scripture is that every believer’s salvation is utterly secure.

In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus declared, “The one who endures to the end, he will be saved” (Matt. 24:13). Paul and Barnabas urged new believers in Pisidian Antioch “to continue in the grace of God” (Acts 13:43) and encouraged “them to continue in the faith” (14:22). In his letter to the church at Rome, Paul declared that God will give eternal life “to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality” (Rom. 2:7; cf. 11:22). He promised the Colossians that Christ would present them before God the Father “blameless and beyond reproach—if indeed [they] continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that [they] have heard” (Col. 1:22–23). He admonished Timothy: “Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you” (1 Tim. 4:16). The writer of Hebrews notes, “We have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end” (Heb. 3:14; cf. 8:9; 10:38–39; cf. James 1:22–25). In each of His letters to the seven churches in Asia, the Lord described believers as overcomers (Rev. 2:7, 11, 17, 26; 3:5, 12, 21).

Perseverance in the faith is the duty of every true believer, and yet not the power of their security. It is, however, the unmistakable and inevitable evidence of divine power operating in the soul (Col. 1:29).

Believers will persevere because God’s power keeps their salvation secure. Jesus repeatedly emphasized that truth. To the multitudes at Capernaum, He declared emphatically that “all that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day” (John 6:37, 39). Later, in Jerusalem, He declared, “I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand” (John 10:28–29; cf. 17:2, 12, 24; 18:9). Earlier in Philippians, Paul wrote that he was “confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus” (1:6). Peter gave believers a similar assurance, saying that they “are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time” (1 Peter 1:5).

From beginning to end, the entire divine work of salvation is under God’s control. In a well-loved passage Paul wrote, We know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. (Rom. 8:28–30)To the Ephesians he wrote, “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them” (Eph. 2:8–10).

So the call for believers to work out their salvation is found all through the New Testament. That is only fitting and proper, since it is a call for the necessary commitment on the believer’s part that is a prerequisite for the joys, blessings, and usefulness of sanctification.
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 28 2023, 02:01 PM

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Well allow me throw in light so that we can have a fresh perspective.

I would like to rebut John MacArthur in his opening argument.

If Christ has indeed removed our sins, why should we say If we have no sins, we are deceiving ourselves? Is this verse for the believers? Or would it make sense that verse was actually for unbelievers?

Has Christ removed our sins or has He not? If Christ has, why is there still sin? doh.gif Do you see that fallacy of this argument?

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Feb 28 2023, 02:02 PM
desmond2020
post Feb 28 2023, 02:05 PM

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dude he is quoting from bible

1 John 1:8-9
English Standard Version
8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

you gotta be kidding me. you got problem with bible verse? damn this doesn't go well
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 28 2023, 02:13 PM

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With regards to Philippians 3:12-14 (NIV) - 12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

You mean Paul was not saved when he made that statement? You mean he was trying to achieve Salvation because he said Not that I've obtained all this.

What was "not that I've obtained all this" refers to?

Brother Desmond you can read the entire Philippians 3, the answer is there.

I could pull it out for you but I suspect you're just going to ridicule me as usual.


TSunknown warrior
post Feb 28 2023, 02:18 PM

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I know he was quoting from 1 John 1:8-9.

But in relating to working out Salvation with fear and trembling he said this;

work out your salvation with fear and trembling; (2:12e)The fifth motive for believers’ working out their sanctification is understanding the consequences of sin.

The 5th motive ?

If you have been saved, you have been cleared of sin. That is my argument. MacArthur pulls out a fallacy argument, that's my point.

Working out your Salvation, as I said, the context is in the next verse (13)
desmond2020
post Feb 28 2023, 02:19 PM

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dude, i just quote as what it wrote in bible, what you believe it means got nothing to do with me.

ketchup?
desmond2020
post Feb 28 2023, 02:22 PM

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he said sanctification, you said salvation

is this two same thing? dude

just relax and think it through

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Feb 28 2023, 02:22 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 28 2023, 02:23 PM

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Alright ketchup.
TSunknown warrior
post Feb 28 2023, 03:25 PM

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Anyway

The surety of the believer's Salvation in

post#215 is quite important.

LINK


This will determine all other things that follows, so get you need to be established in this foundation right. flex.gif
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 2 2023, 09:05 AM

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What does working out your Salvation with fear and trembling means?

Philippians 2:12-13 (NIV) - 12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

The verse Work out your Salvation is a popular one but it is seldom quoted together of verse 13. You know why? So that it gives the impression you need to work out your Salvation less you lose it. This is of course erroneous.

I want to start off by saying, note that working out Salvation = God is doing for you. It does not start with you.

God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Doesn't say work for salvation, it says work out for it is God who works in. Work out what God has worked in. You cannot work out something you are not given<===THIS. Many have missed the point here.

So rest assure, it is not a verse telling that you need to work at it less you lose your Salvation. You have already been given Salvation, Friend, so work with what you are given to hone it, to perfect it. We have a lot of things to work out friend, taming your tongue for example. Loving your neighbours? We each have a varying degree to how much we love right? So you're beginning to get the idea of what this verse is all about?

Salvation's encompasses many things, It's not just on eternal life, don't forget. Salvation can also mean to rescue, to save, to heal, to deliver. But remember the verse doesn't say "work for", it's work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Fear and trembling is Hebrewism. It's an expression of something good that you are in awe of.

With that being said, Fear and Trembling means working out your salvation with a sense of an "awesomeness" if not a Good God! And what exactly is God working in you? Both to will, means God gives you the willingness. You may say "I'm not willing to do that". But you know, God can work in you the willingness? And this word, "God works in you" is present active participle., IE present continuous-active God is always working in you, you just have to be aware of it. He is working.

You know how good God is? He gives you the desire, he gives you the performance, and when you do it, God rewards you the grace of the very thing he first gave you. Isn't this amazing? And if are beginning to understand this, you can for example, ask God to give you the desire to look away from pornography. Whatever it is. It's not just pertaining to sin but also to do whatever that is required of God.

You can tell God, "God, I need the willingness," and see God working in you that willingness. This is also the key to holiness.

God Bless.

TSunknown warrior
post Mar 2 2023, 01:08 PM

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Not that I've already arrived...



Philippians 3:12-14 (NIV) - 12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.


This verse can apply to indicate (for believers) that none of us are perfect and may fail here and there. It's such an encouragement that we are told to forget the past and to move on. However does it mean that we have not arrive at inheriting Salvation?

Surely not. Because prior to this chapter, Apostle Paul stated if we have any encouragement in being united in Christ, IE you are already saved. And at the end of chapter 3, the word of God tells us our Lord Jesus Christ "WILL" transform our body into like His Glorious body, another indication you are saved. Nothing is said in chapter 2 or 3 inheriting Salvation is a progress, IE you have yet to obtain it.

Then what was Paul talking about then?

Well the clue can be found in verse 10 & 11 of same chapter.

10 I want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead.

To be like Christ Jesus is always a journey. To know Christ takes time, takes effort. Paul was saying he wants to know everything there is about Christ and has yet to reach the full revelation, full knowledge of Christ. This is the context.
Verse 11 is a pilgrimage language talking about, when one has reached the end of his life, thereby attaining to resurrection from the dead.

What about "the prize" mention in verse 14 then?

Philippians 3:14 (KJV) - I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

KJV is more accurate. The prize here refers to reward for finishing whatever God calls you for. It's the prize for the calling of God. It's not the prize for Salvation.

There you have it. I pray by now you are convinced that God wants you to know your Salvation is secured by Christ Himself.

Anytime, anyone that tries to contradict this, understand that it's not of God but of the enemy. God wants faith and strong affirmation for his people, the devil only wants to cast doubt so that they remain in defeat.

Press on believers, press on no matter what, don't give up!

God Bless.


This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 2 2023, 01:09 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 3 2023, 12:35 PM

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God wants you to be fully assured of Salvation and does not want you to have a guilty conscience

Hebrews 10:22 (NIV) - let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.


The book of Hebrews is one of my favourites, in there are many gems of revelation that God wants us to embrace. Hebrews 10:22 is one of them. It tells us to be fully assured in being near to God. If that does not indicate one already having Salvation, I don't know what it.

You can think this through, you cannot come near to God fully assured if you are not saved. Keyword is on fully assured. It doesn't get any simpler than that. Time and time again, it's always our believing or faith that attracts God like nothing else does.

Having our heart sprinkled to cleanse us from guilty conscience means exactly what it is. As believers of God we are to have no consciousness of sin, ie guilty conscience.

Pure water there refers to being washed by word of God.

With all that being said, any teaching that teaches believers must always be conscious of sin or that we are not suppose to be fully assured of Salvation goes against the word of God.

My advice ignore such teachings. They can write long winded arguments but at the end of the day if it cast doubt into equation of Salvation or faith, the root is usually of the devil.

Hope this verse in Hebrews 10:22 helps you.

God Bless.

TSunknown warrior
post Mar 3 2023, 01:40 PM

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Grace is the answer to Sin, not the Law

Romans 6:14 (NKJV) - For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

The power to overcome sin IE not having dominion over you = Grace.

What is Grace? Grace = unearned, unmerited favor of God. It is God providing freely his favor to you without needing you to earn that right.

I can testify this to be true because I practice this verse at heart. How does this work?

Well I put my trust in God's grace. If God say Sin shall not have dominion under grace then in my mental assent, I accept that to be true. I don't fight against it, neither try to reason against it.
This is why mental assent is so important, don't downplay it.

I pray to God trusting He will do it. I ask God to remove every wrongful desire out of my heart including pornography. I pray everyday, day and night.

Meanwhile on everyday journey I may fall here and there but I know, Christ has already redeemed all my sin so I confess that in prayer. I don't wallow sorrowful in sin. I confess by faith, having full confidence, the blood of Christ is more powerful and avails in redeeming and has redeem that sin that just happened. Doesn't matter how many times. The blood of Jesus avails for all time.

If there is doubt or the feeling or uncertainty then fight to enter into God's rest. Being restful in God is so very important. I even confess that I'm the righteousness of God by faith (2 Corinthians 5:21 ), this righteousness is a gift from God that doesn't come from the Law (IE my obedience). It's crazy to even confess that after you sin but it's biblical. Why? It's to affirm Grace being provided to me.

Then one day, it happen. The desire just left, just like that. I no longer have that lustful desire that I used to have. I attribute this to the work of God's Holy Spirit and I say that with care. This is to God's Glory because what happened has nothing to do with me, not even my obedience.

In case if you are wondering where do I base this theology from?

Hebrews 9:24-26 (NIV)

QUOTE
24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
What these verse are saying is this:

Christ represent us in Heaven before God. He is our advocate, our high priest before God once and for all. Some of us may think that each we sin, Christ will magically appear on cross to suffer for us every single time. No.
Verse 26 is very clear. Christ does not suffer each time we sin. How come? Because His finish work is a once and for all and avails for all time. This is why when Christ say "It is finish", it is. Verse 28 confirms this. If Christ has taken sin away then it is taken away. And because Christ is not going to suffer every single time believer sin, this basically means the blood of Christ avails for every single sin. To say that the blood of Christ only wash for the first time and later on, it depends on whether you are obedient enough or repentant enough to merit Salvation is an erroneous theology and not biblical.

I wonder those who shout for obedience and repentance, hows is your spiritual life in your fight against sin? If you are still fighting against pornography, problem with lust, you can't keep your eyes off women in skimpy clothing, you may want to consider IF your theology if it's working for you. You can shout all you want. Accuse me all you want. At the end of the day when you worship God, is it truly free worship or one laid with guilt?

Whom the Son sets free is free indeed.

I share this devotion with the hope that you will turn to God's Grace as the answer.

God Bless.

desmond2020
post Mar 3 2023, 01:50 PM

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Oh hebrews 10:22.

Hebrews chapter 10 is very interesting in a way.

Hebrews 10:22 sounds good to most ears, but many won't like what is after this. Let see

22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful.
24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,
25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.
28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.
29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has spurned the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him who said, "Vengeance is mine; I will repay." And again, "The Lord will judge his people."
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32 But recall the former days when, after you were enlightened, you endured a hard struggle with sufferings,
33 sometimes being publicly exposed to reproach and affliction, and sometimes being partners with those so treated.
34 For you had compassion on those in prison, and you joyfully accepted the plundering of your property, since you knew that you yourselves had a better possession and an abiding one.
35 Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.
37 For, "Yet a little while, and the coming one will come and will not delay;
38 but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him."
39 But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.


Note that ESV rendered it as evil conscience in verse 22? subtle different I must say. That is why I had been advising someone don't take a word out english translation and make a theology out of it

Now, if you notice verse 26 is rather controversial, most charismatic church i know will skip this. I hereby attached a neutral exploration of its meaning after this. You can read and form your own opinion.

What does Hebrews 10:26 mean?
This verse is controversial and subject to varied interpretation. The language used in this passage can be taken in more than one way. However, the overall context of the passage, the book of Hebrews, and the entire New Testament, still stands. As difficult as these verses might be to pin down, they should not be interpreted in a manner inconsistent with the rest of Scripture. As a passage dealing with apostasy, this warning either applies to saved Christians who suffer punishment for their disobedience, or those who were never truly saved in the first place, and who experience particular wrath for so blatantly rejecting Christ.

The Greek phrasing here is sometimes interpreted as to "go on sinning," or as "willfully sinning." There is a subtle difference between these, and how one interprets the rest of the passage greatly influences how these words are understood. The wider context of this passage, however, seems to favor the second view.

In the case of those who "go on sinning," it implies those who come to some level of knowledge of the gospel, but ultimately reject it in favor of their sin. Such persons would be those never legitimately saved in the first place. The following warning, then, refers to how much more severe their judgment would be. Those with greater knowledge have greater responsibility, particularly when it comes to spiritual matters (John 9:41).

If this reference is understood as those who are "willfully sinning," it would seem to suggest those who have legitimately accepted Christ, but who purposefully fail to fully submit to His will. It's true that the Bible sets forth a certain expectation for those who are saved; namely, they are generally expected to live as if they believe. However, this very letter of Hebrews pointed out the dangers of falling into faithlessness and disbelief (Hebrews 3:12–19; Hebrews 6:1–8). That prior warning was given very explicitly to saved believers, and included similar language to what follows.

Earlier in this chapter, the writer of Hebrews pointed out that the sacrifice of Christ was a single, once for all event (Hebrews 10:12). For this reason, there are no longer additional sacrifices being made, in heaven, for the forgiveness of sins (Hebrews 10:18). When sin is truly forgiven, there is no longer a sacrifice to remove it. The other side of that truth, however, is revealed here. Those who reject Christ reject the one and only sacrifice which can save them. There is not, and will never be, any other means to remove sin.
desmond2020
post Mar 3 2023, 02:56 PM

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Let have another view from other preacher

Question:

Would you please explain to me whether Hebrews 10:26 is speaking about a believer losing his or her salvation?

Response:

Hebrews 10:26 can only be understood in its near context (and in the context of the book of Hebrews). Paul's essential purpose in writing this book is to pull Jewish believers away from continuing in the temple ritual now that that ritual had been fulfilled in the incarnation, life, and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. For to continue with an elaborate system of rituals which spoke of the coming Savior and His future death on the cross was to say, in effect, that Jesus was not the Messiah and His death not valid. Continuation in the foreshadowing ritual after the real Christ had come and suffered in the flesh for real was tantamount to denying and disowning Him, and would eventually destroy the faith of those who persisted in the practice. Paul did not come to this realization at once (cf. the development of his understanding of true baptism as Spirit baptism: 1Cor.1:17). Indeed, his imprisonment, chronicled in the book of Acts, is a result of his persistence, for sentimental and "practical" reasons, in these rituals he loved. He had been warned not to go up to Jerusalem "through the Spirit" (Acts 21:4; cf. Acts 21:10-11), and then had agreed to sponsor the vows of some young men to show that "he lived in obedience to the [Mosaic] law" (Acts 21:24), which he certainly did not (1Cor.9:20-21). This was a blind spot, and a compromise, and Paul had previously pointed this out in the case of others (cf. Gal.2:11-14). To be fair, Paul is the first one of whom we know (apostle or otherwise) to even come to understand this issue with clarity (let alone to successfully explain it). And given that the primary features of the Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox faiths (not to mention to a very large degree many Protestant denominations) are still largely based upon emulating, adopting, copying or transforming the Jewish rituals (i.e., priests, incense censors, churches with paraphernalia resembling the temple, altars so that communion set in a sacrificial context, etc.), we can see that this was no small accomplishment. Whatever compromise Paul had been involved in is more than set straight by the book of Hebrews which explodes virtually every aspect of the argument for Jewish believers to continue in the traditional manner of worship. This overarching thesis of the book of Hebrews is at the center of the interpretation of Heb.10:26 (set here in a wider context):

(19) Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence in this entrance of ours into the [heavenly] holy of holies by the blood of Jesus, (20) an entryway through the [heavenly] veil [of separation] which is new and alive and which He has consecrated for us, that is [through the sacrifice] of His flesh (cf. Heb.10:10; 10:18), (21) and since we have [this] great high priest over the household of God, let us approach [the throne of grace (cf. Heb.4:16) to pray] with a truthful heart in complete faith, (22) our hearts sprinkled [clean] of [any] bad conscience and our bodies washed with pure water [of the Word (cf. Eph.5:26)]. (23) Let us hold on without turning [to the right or to the left] to the hope we have professed - for the One who has promised us [eternal life] is faithful. (24) And let us give careful attention to one another['s ministries] as motivation for [our own] love and good works, (25) not abandoning your mutual assembling (as some have made it their practice to do [and which makes this impossible]), but rather encouraging each other [to persevere in this work of the Lord], and doing so to an ever greater degree to the extent that you see the day [of the Lord] drawing [ever] closer. (26) For if we willfully continue in the life of sin after accepting and recognizing the truth [of the gospel], there remains no further sacrifice we can make for our sins, (27) but only a terrible expectation of judgment, and a burning fire, ready to devour those who oppose [His will]. (28) For anyone who set aside the law of Moses perished without mercy on the [testimony] of two or three witnesses. (29) How much greater punishment do you suppose will not justly come to someone who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, and who has considered His blood of the covenant to be unclean (the very blood by which you were sanctified), and who has violently insulted the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 10:19-29

The last sentence here is the conclusion for this whole section. We see here what Paul means in the near context when he says above in the verse you ask about, verse 26, "if we willfully continue in the life of sin after accepting and recognizing the truth (of the gospel), there remains no further sacrifice we can make for our sins". In other words, by continuing in the Jewish temple ritual, these Jewish believers were committing sin, and serious sin at that. Because every time they participated in an animal sacrifice, they were saying, in effect, that Jesus died in vain. This really is "trampling" Him under foot; this really is regarding His blood, that is, His death on the cross, as "unclean", this really is "violently insulting" the Spirit who testifies to Him and to the validity of His work.

There were certainly reasons that the Jewish believers in Jerusalem were drawn to these things: tradition, nostalgia, the desire to avoid confrontation with (and persecution by) unbelievers who expected it of them. But Paul lets these backsliding believers know in no uncertain terms that to continue in these practices will be the death of their faith. All sin endangers faith, because all sin is lawlessness (1Jn.3:4). If we are walking in the light (1Jn.1:7), we can confess our failings and be confident of forgiveness (1Jn.1:9). But if we are not walking in the light, that is, if we are involved in a pattern of rebellion, a pattern of sinful conduct we know to be sinful, if we willfully and arrogantly disobey God long and hard enough, then we have no fellowship with God (1Jn.1:6), and our hearts eventually become hardened to Him, and our faith decays and eventually dies - and without faith there is no salvation (cf. Matt.10:33; Lk.14:34-35; Jn.15:5-6; Rom.11:17-23; 1Cor.6:9-11; 10:6-12; 15:2; 2Cor.13:5; Gal.5:19-21; Eph.5:3-7; Col.1:21-23; 1Tim.6:9; 6:20-21; 2Tim.2:12; Heb.2:1-3; 3:6-19; 10:35-39; 2Jn.1:8-9). So while the specific application of Hebrews 10:26 "if we willfully continue in the life of sin" is to this particular pattern of sinning, any pattern of choosing a life of sin against God will lead eventually and inevitably to the same place:

(12) Make sure, brothers, that none of you develop an evil heart of unbelief (i.e., lack of faith) by turning away (lit. "apostatizing") from the living God. (13) Rather keep encouraging each other every day as long as we still call it "today" (i.e. still remain in this world), lest any of you be hardened [in heart] by the deception of sin. (14) For we all have a share in Christ, as long as we hang on to that original confidence [of our faith] firmly to the end, (15) as it says: "Today if you hear His voice, Don't harden your hearts as they did at the provocation [at Meribah]." (16) For who provoked Him, though they had heard? Did not all of them who came out of Egypt under Moses' leadership do so? (17) And with whom was He enraged for forty years? Wasn't it the very people who had sinned, then dropped dead in the desert? (18) And to whom did He swear that they would never enter into the [place of] rest [He had promised], but to those who had been disobedient to Him? (19) Now we see that they were unable to enter into this [place of rest] because of their unbelief (i.e., their loss of faith).
Hebrews 3:12-19

Every one is tempted by his own lust, being dragged away [by it] and enticed [by it]. Then, should lust conceive (i.e., should the person give in to it), it gives birth to sin. And sin, should it be fully carried out to the end (i.e., should the person give in to a life of sin), produces death (i.e., the death of faith).
James 1:14-15

If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin (i.e., involved in sin) which is not unto death (i.e., is a deviation rather than a complete turning away), let him ask [forgiveness on his brother's behalf], and life will be given to him (i.e., forgiveness and deliverance), that is, in those cases where those sinning are not [sinning] unto death (i.e., engaged in a willful process of "deadly" faith destroying sinfulness).
1st John 5:16

Let us not put Christ to the test, as some of them (i.e., the Exodus generation) did and were killed by serpents. And let us not be complaining, as some of them complained, and were killed by the Destroyer. These things happened to them as an example to us and were written to warn us (i.e., to avoid similar apostasy) – we who live at the culmination of the ages (i.e., at the doorstep of the Tribulation). So let him who thinks he stands firm beware lest he fall (i.e., from faith; cf. Rom.11:22).
1st Corinthians 10:11-12

Don't you understand that if you give your allegiance to anyone to obey them as servants, then you truly are their servants when you obey them? [This is true] whether [you give yourselves] to sin, which results in death (i.e., of faith ), or whether [you give yourselves] to obedience [to Christ], which results in righteousness?
Romans 6:16

https://ichthys.com/mail-Hebrews%2010-26.htm
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 3 2023, 03:22 PM

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What is sinning wilfully referring to?

Hebrews 10:26 (NIV) - If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

Before I start, let us deal with Hebrews 10:22 on the word evil conscience, yes it's a subtle difference whether guilty, bad or wicked but the context remain the same. In either translations, it's still referring to sin consciousness. Because prior to this verse, the passage talks about removal of our sins. Hence the context. It amuses me sometime why the constant need to contradict. smile.gif

Friends, we shouldn't allow any verse to be taken out of its context and causes doubt or even rob you of your security in Christ. On surface reading it may sound as if referring to

1. Apostasy
2. Those who are never saved
3. Those who are saved but deliberately sinning

Let's reason this out.

I submit to you that almost every sin we commit after being saved were committed willfully. <==This.

Think about. If that is the case then by reason of Hebrews 10:26 then nobody is going to heaven if we think that is what it says.

Well you may argue, nobody except those who repent and are obedient. Well in there lies a huge problem.

Just how many repentance or number of times we obey qualify? How do you know it's enough? You can say well I repented and I obeyed but then your next sin was also another deliberate one.

The criteria is that as long as it's a deliberate one, no sacrifice for sins is left. So how? None of those 3 references makes any sense not unless you read the entire chapter of Hebrews 10.

Apostle Paul was painstakingly arguing why the Law as opposed to the blood of Christ cannot save. <===This is the context of Hebrews 10:26. Apostle Paul stated very strongly the animal sacrifice cannot save the person as it could not remove any sin. (Read verse 1 -11)

We need to understand that the book of Hebrews was written to the Hebrews, or Jewish people (which included believers as well as non-believers). Hebrews 10:26, in particular, is addressing Jewish non-believers who had heard preaching on Jesus being their Messiah, but who were still going back to the temple to offer animal sacrifices.

Because Christ has already come, forgiveness of sins is now only made available via his blood, not animal sacrifices. That is why when you read the part " .......after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left" it then makes a lot of sense. the knowledge of truth here refers to Christ.

You must also remember the jewish people by large were still opposing Christ. They insist Moses Law was the way. Hence to reject Christ and go back to temple animal sacrifice = trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace.

And if you read verse 32 onwards, it makes even more sense then.


QUOTE
32 Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you endured in a great conflict full of suffering. 33 Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. 34 You suffered along with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions. 35 So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded.

36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. 37 For,

“In just a little while,

he who is coming will come

and will not delay.”

38 And,

“But my righteous g one will live by faith.

And I take no pleasure

in the one who shrinks back.”

39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.


Verse 32 refers to Christians who were persecuted by Jewish Rabbi for their new found faith in Christ Jesus. In relevance there is a tug of war here, between Judaism and Christianity.

With all that being said, Hebrews 10:26 refers to rejecting Christ and going back to temple sacrifices. We need to let Bible interpret Bible.






TSunknown warrior
post Mar 3 2023, 03:33 PM

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Romans 14:23 (NIV) - But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

Normally we think the word sin = disobeying God, like watching pronography, stuff like that.

But if we understand Bible language, anything that does not come from faith is sin as well.

Food for thought.



desmond2020
post Mar 3 2023, 03:55 PM

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What is sin actually?

1 John 3:
See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears[a] we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 3 And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.

4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's[b] seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

So what is Law?


Fulfilling the Law Through Love
8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

11 Besides this you know the time, that the hour has come for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed. 12 The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13 Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.

Love is the essence of the spirit of God's law. The commandments are prescribed as rules of life. When we love, we have found the true principle of obedience, the true spirit of the holy law. Paul sums it all up in love. And we, having received the love of Christ, living in His love, see the law not as a stern, condemning taskmaster but as an appealing, bright vision of understanding and blessing.

We see the law embodied in Christ, and our imitation of Christ involves obedience to the law, but we fulfill the law, not simply as a standard outside, but as a living principle within. Acting according to the dictates of the way of love, our lives conform to the image of Christ, as we conform to the law. Love, therefore, is the fulfillment of the law.

So why can't we keep the law on our own?

Hebrews 8:10 ESV
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jeremiah 31:33 ESV
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Ezekiel 36:26 ESV
And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 ESV
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

2 Corinthians 3:3 ESV
And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

Psalm 119:11 ESV
I have stored up your word in my heart, that I might not sin against you.

Psalm 51:10 ESV
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.

Hebrews 10:16 ESV
“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,”

Let be careful when you heard someone tell you that certain passage, even NT passage is limit in its applicability. Some days, they might even tell you some sin are not sins, it is just human nature / DNA forcing you to do your deeds.




desmond2020
post Mar 3 2023, 04:08 PM

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So, what is evil conscience?

Evil Conscience
Hebrews 10:22
Some people can lie and never lose any sleep. They can steal and do other things, and it never seems to upset them. How can some people do evil things and not be disturbed about them? The answer could be that they have an evil conscience.

Read: Hebrews 10:22

The writer of Hebrews used Old Testament symbolism to convey a New Testament truth. When the priest was ministering in the tabernacle, he had to wash his hands and his feet at the laver so he would not defile the tabernacle. You and I, when we fellowship with the Lord, must be sure that we are washed clean also, not outwardly, but inwardly. "Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts." (cf. Ps. 51:6a). This evening, I want us to consider the "evil conscience".

I. What is an Evil Conscience?

A. It is the opposite of a good conscience.

1. This seems like a simple answer, but it is true.

2. A good conscience is one that is effective: it convicts us when we have done wrong, and it encourages us when we have done right.

3. An evil conscience encourages the person too, when he does wrong!

B. Note: Isaiah 5:20

1. "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"

2. That is an excellent description of a person with an evil conscience!

3. So an evil conscience is one that substitutes that which is wrong for that which is right.

4. The standard by which it judges is faulty and the result is a conscience that fails to work in the way God had planned for it to work.

II. Causes of an Evil Conscience.

A. An improper concept of God and of sin.

1. People take lightly the Word of God, especially that part that condemns sinful activity;

2. Which results in them not being serious about sin.

3. As a person begins to think improperly about God and sin...it is a short step to improper and sinful behavior.

B. There are other terms to describe this.

Titus 1:15, "Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled."

1. A conscience is defiled because of a defiled mind.

1 Timothy 4:2, "Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;"

2. As a result of continued sin, a defiled conscience becomes "seared" and insensitive to sin.

3. When your skin in burned, it develops a callused area of scar tissue, and that area loses its sensitivity.

III. Evidences of an Evil Conscience.

A. Playing with sin, and not taking sin seriously.

B. Shallow confession and shallow repentance which is really just excuses for their sin.

C. Measuring sin...someone might say, "Well, I never committed a BIG sin!"

D. Arguing with the Truth.

1. Some even misuse the Bible to support their sin!

2. Sometimes even professing Christians do this.

The only hope for an evil conscience is the blood of Christ. We can always come to the Lord and have ouor hearts cleansed. We must first confess honestly before God and demonstrate an attitude of true repentance.

Hebrews 9:14, "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
http://www.brandonweb.com/sermons/sermonpages/hebrews6.htm
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 3 2023, 04:41 PM

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I think it's important to understand why I posted Romans 14:23, it's related to language use in Hebrews 10:26.

Nobody is down playing sin.

=====================================================================

Actually it's more accurate to interpret Hebrews 10:22 in the entirety of Hebrews 10.

The Greek word for evil is "ponéros", The definition = toilsome, bad. It can be used as = evil, bad, wicked, malicious, slothful. Nothing wrong.

But context is important.

Hence when the translation used = Guilty, it would best fit it.

In Hebrews 10:2 (NIV) - Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. <== Context is here.

It wouldn't really fit and make sense to apply as evil conscience (IE seared conscience) because the believer has been removed of her sin. To ask to be cleanse from an evil conscious would imply the person's sin is still there operating.

But because the person's sin has indeed been removed therefore let us come close to God......with clear conscience vs guilty one.

icon_rolleyes.gif laugh.gif

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 3 2023, 04:43 PM
desmond2020
post Mar 3 2023, 04:59 PM

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Oh well

Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins?
Hebrews 10:2 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/heb.10.2.ESV


Well, as I said, different is subtle
SharpSword
post Mar 3 2023, 08:44 PM

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Mar 6 2023, 10:01 AM
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SharpSword
post Mar 3 2023, 09:54 PM

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SharpSword
post Mar 4 2023, 07:28 AM

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GaunterO'Dimm P
post Mar 4 2023, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(SharpSword @ Mar 3 2023, 08:44 PM)
It's laughable that someone is trying to proclaim his righteous living and raising up the issue of morality in particular sexual sins. Any way who ask and neither are we interested in whatever sins you were bound in. God is not interested either in putting out dirty linen and certainly not in the business of shaming and embarrassing people because of their sin. But sin is sin and His holiness endures forever. God instead brings mans attention to his bondage to sin as a fact he is an unregenerate sinner in need of forgiveness and cleansing(freedom) from sin.He highlights the problem of sin because He desires to forgive and free the sinner of their sin. His motive is always redemptive and not for personal vendetta. Actually the one that accuses a person to condemn such is no less Satan who is also called the accuser of the brethren. And those who boast of their moral standards are no less the Pharisees. When we boast we are in danger of falling.
So we speak of those things which we know are true in Christ. Not that it serves to validate us but our aim is that the Word of God is validated.
In truth if one has an issue of sin in their personal life they aught not to be teaching the Holy Scriptures. It is presumption to do so. Take a sabbatical, have a rest and deal with the issue of sin first.Once you have overcome then share your experience but not as that which entitles you to say whatever you fancy. In the OT the priest wore on their headgear the words "holiness to the Lord" as a reminder of how they were to carry themselves in their service to God.
As one who was unsaved once I have had my share of the sins that entangles mankind so easily. But after my conversion it was clear to me the issue of sin and how believing the Gospel of Christ  affords the believer both pardon and freedom from sin. Otherwise it would be strange that God only pardoned but did not set us free from sin. But as surely as the Israelites were saved by the blood of that first passover lamb and were also surely delivered from their bondage under the hand of Pharaoh, so no less every person that is saved by God. Being freed from sin is not some kind of wishful thinking for the born again believer but is the direct result of the indwelling Spirit of God. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ sets us free from the law of sin and death. Just like you don't have to convince your self mentally that the laws of sin and death exist so too there is no need to psyche one up on the reality of the law of the Spirit. Otherwise its like trying to convince ourselves on the existence of the law of gravity. Law operate independent of one's state of mind. In fact a person's mind changes so often it would be utmost unreliable to base any kind of truth on the function of one's mind and especially so when referring to the issue of one salvation. The scripture is very clear :faith, salvation, forgiveness, deliverance from sin are all realities that have been forged in the realm of one's spirit. Otherwise even a child could not be saved except for the likes of a professor. But we see Christ tells us differently that unless we become as little children we could not enter his kingdom. We are saved by the revelation of God's truth as something that must transact in the spirit of a person  and not just in the mind. And that which is in the spirit of a man must necessarily guide his behaviour and this being the reason we argue that faith must go hand in hand with obedience as obeying the one we believe in. We cannot be said to only believe Christ where he speaks on the forgiveness of sins but at the same time refuse when he taught on matters such as sin, hell, repentance, wealth, relationship, prayer, marriage, servant hood, his deity, stewardship, the nature of God and His kingdom, the matters of the last day's etc etc etc. There is no such thing as selective faith as far as the scripture is concerned. To believe in Christ is to have complete trust in him  who is no less very God himself. And no man could call another God save he is willing to submit in faith to every thing that concerns Him who is God. Otherwise then God be no longer God. In this case who really is god but the unrepentant sinner himself.
So these brings to a close all I need to say in this thread as I observe some are adamant to propagate false doctrines here. To such let me bring your attention to the warning and judgement that awaits all false teachers as stated in Rev 2:20-23.
*
your comment resonate with me but too tldr..

i like to add something

if u are saved, u will not have any desire to sin

if u hv no desire to do something, will u still do it? same thing applies with sin

like watching porn, if u under grace u lack the desire to watch it anymore

i said that bcoz i was porn addict, but now no more (for years edi still no desire..)

if u under law, u will still desire to watch porn and will fall into sin

so the law become your curse or stumbling block
SharpSword
post Mar 4 2023, 10:36 AM

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QUOTE(GaunterO'Dimm @ Mar 4 2023, 10:12 AM)
your comment resonate with me but too tldr..

i like to add something

if u are saved, u will not have any desire to sin

if u hv no desire to do something, will u still do it? same thing applies with sin

like watching porn, if u under grace u lack the desire to watch it anymore

i said that bcoz i was porn addict, but now no more (for years edi still no desire..)

if u under law, u will still desire to watch porn and will fall into sin

so the law become your curse or stumbling block
*
Thanks for your honesty. Like I said God is not in the business of shaming a person because of their sin. His desire is than man will repent and receive forgiveness and deliverance from sin.
And humans makes distinction between sins as if sexual sins are more terrible than others. We overlook luke16:15 that says every thing highly esteemed among man is an abomination in the sight of God.

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post Mar 4 2023, 11:32 AM

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QUOTE(GaunterO'Dimm @ Mar 4 2023, 10:12 AM)
your comment resonate with me but too tldr..

i like to add something

if u are saved, u will not have any desire to sin

if u hv no desire to do something, will u still do it? same thing applies with sin

like watching porn, if u under grace u lack the desire to watch it anymore

i said that bcoz i was porn addict, but now no more (for years edi still no desire..)

if u under law, u will still desire to watch porn and will fall into sin

so the law become your curse or stumbling block

*
Yup,

The purpose of OT Law is to instigate sin.
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post Mar 4 2023, 11:48 AM

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Sorry I need to correct what I wrote.

1 John 1 was most likely written to Gnostic believers.

Which was a heresy.

QUOTE
Gnosticism. A core teaching in many forms of Gnosticism was that the spirit was completely good and that matter, including the physical body, was completely evil.

Followers of Gnosticism believed that salvation was not achieved by being freed from sin but rather by freeing the spirit from matter, meaning the physical body. They also believed that salvation was achieved through special knowledge (gnosis) rather than through faith in Jesus Christ.


This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 4 2023, 12:34 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 4 2023, 11:57 AM

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lol, instead of seeing it as something to learn, it's considered as shaming and embarrassing?

What is even funnier, I don't really know the person personally but yet he takes it way too personal.

Here's something to learn, what you accuse to other can easily be pointed back at you.

Giving warning in book of revelations lah. Oh my. mega_shok.gif


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post Mar 4 2023, 11:59 AM

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And I agree with you Desmond, the difference is subtle but then again when think about it. even using evil conscience may apply.

The Bible translations has its purpose. The Bible is far reaching to everyone.
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post Mar 4 2023, 12:06 PM

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QUOTE
Reading on from Philippians 3:11 and onwards it is clear the context is resurrection from the dead. Only a perverse and depraved person will try to twist this scripture to fit their erroneous theology.


"perverse and depraved person"?

Oh my. laugh.gif

I did say Verse 11 is a pilgrimage language talking about, when one has reached the end of his life, thereby attaining to resurrection from the dead. in #234

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desmond2020
post Mar 4 2023, 12:15 PM

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So you are saying 1 John as a letter to church, is addressed to different people says chapter 1 for non believer and the rest for believer? That is hell of mental gymnastics

So chapter 5 address to who? This is getting ridiculous

Let go back to bible shall we

Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? This is he who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. For there are three that testify: the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree. If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater, for this is the testimony of God that he has borne concerning his Son. Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life. And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him. If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death. We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him. We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols.
1 John 5:1‭-‬21 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/1jn.5.1-21.ESV


This post has been edited by desmond2020: Mar 4 2023, 12:17 PM
socialforumer
post Mar 4 2023, 12:16 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Feb 28 2023, 12:43 PM)
When you are strong, God backs away, but when you cannot, God comes in - The working of God's Spirit

2 Corinthians 12:9 (NIV) - But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.

Hi Everyone, God's Grace to you and your love ones.

Today we will talk on how to get God's Holy Spirit to work in us. 2 Corinthians 12:9 tells us how. God will not work in you if you try to be strong in yourself.  As Christians, we need to always come to a place of vulnerability. There will be people who don't like this. Nobody likes to be vulnerable but it's the only way for God to work in us.

In the natural we may feel ashamed for weaknesses but not so with God. God delights in our weaknesses. God loves to use the weak things. So if you have many many weaknesses, guess what? You're a good candidate for God to work in.

And it's vital to understand unless God works in the person, there can be no fruits or results. We all want changes, we all want obedience and repentance even.
For that to happen, God must work in your life. <==Where is the basis for this theology that says unless God is the one, you cannot?

Well look at this verse.

Philippians 2:13 (NIV) - for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

And this verse.

John 15:5 (NIV) - “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

With all that being said it is also important to know; in order for The Holy Spirit to work in you, you need to be connected to God. I mean that is obvious.
And in order to be connected to God, you need to know your new position in Christ

As believers in Christ, you must understand your sins have been put away by Christ's blood on the cross. This will take a bit of explaining. But it's important to know.

Our new position = We have been washed cleaned. This is the position you must hold fast to. Don't allow anyone to convince you out of it. You need to repent and believe this. I'll explain later why this is important.

As born again believer, you may not be perfect and may fail here or there. But understand your new position. Your failure(s) does not define you. Christ Jesus now defines you. <== This.
The bible states very clearly. Christ is not going come down from heaven again to die on the cross every time you fail.  The Salvation offered on the cross is not confined to the limit of time nor natural space. It avails anytime anywhere.
As born again believer, If you failed, Pray like this; " Abba in Heaven, I thank you for the cross. The sin (you can name it, whatever it was) that I've just committed has been judged by you at the cross and has been redeemed by Christ's blood. I receive your forgiveness and repent of it, help me to move on by your holy spirit.

Then pray this prayer.

"Abba in Heaven, I have no power to overcome this sin. I have absolutely no strength to abstain from it. I will surely fail if I even try to abstain. I ask for the work of your Holy Spirit in this weakness. Take away that wrongful desire or sinful desire. I don't want it. According to your word, I gladly admit this is my weakness, let your grace and strength rest on me. Fill my mind with what is only virtuous, good and clean thoughts from heaven.

It may be a bit confusing at the beginning but just understand 2 fundamental truth.

1. Christ Jesus has taken care of your sin. Don't try do anything to contradict this.

2. God's Holy Spirit will only work in you when you relent and surrender that you cannot.

Why is weakness so important? God cannot save the person who is strong. As analogy, You cannot save a drowning person who is struggling with his might, both will be in danger of drowning. You can only save when he/she stops struggling and allow to be saved. Hope this simple analogy helps.

God's principles is the opposite of this world. In this world, we look to the strongest, the  fastest, the tallest. What Man esteem is something that God doesn't.

Anyway, there you have it, the working of God's Holy Spirit. This is how we get to repentance and obedience.

God Bless.

*
This is great. Praise God. True humility (admiting I cannot but He can) is the only way to let God moves in your life and ministry.

Testifying that I have been reminded and restored to this state by the grace of God recently.🙏

This post has been edited by socialforumer: Mar 4 2023, 12:17 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 4 2023, 12:19 PM

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Desmond, chapter 5 is for believers.

It's no mental gymnastic.
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post Mar 4 2023, 12:20 PM

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QUOTE(socialforumer @ Mar 4 2023, 12:16 PM)
This is great. Praise God. True humility (admiting I cannot but He can) is the only way to let God moves in your life and ministry.

Testifying that I have been reminded and restored to this state by the grace of God recently.🙏
*
thumbsup.gif
SharpSword
post Mar 4 2023, 12:54 PM

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Mar 6 2023, 10:02 AM
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TSunknown warrior
post Mar 4 2023, 01:04 PM

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Wow so much labelling.

Heretic la, perverse and deprave lah, warnings in book of revelation lah. laugh.gif

condemning others in going down lah. mega_shok.gif

All the while never bother to read properly.







TSunknown warrior
post Mar 4 2023, 03:15 PM

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If you want to heed in obedience, my advice be careful in the choice of words on our lips.

As born-again believers, we should not have crude words. Spewing out crude words or vulgarity betrays the heart. People will know.

Jesus Christ did say it's out of our heart, the mouth speaks.

It's one thing to argue on theology and another to live practicing it.

Personally, I feel it's pointless to argue so much, as opposed to living by the Holy Spirit. <=== I want this.

My whole intention is to reach out so we can benefit from what Christ has given. I don't want this to be a platform to argue.

That is why I ask if your theology doesn't change you, perhaps you may want to consider Grace to change you.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 4 2023, 03:16 PM
SharpSword
post Mar 4 2023, 04:57 PM

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TSunknown warrior
post Mar 4 2023, 07:18 PM

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Father of lies?
Twist and turn scripture to my own destruction?
We have cornered you?
pathetic emotional argument?
Manipulate people's emotions?
Repent?

Oh my. laugh.gif

Look at those words. hmm.gif

Argumentative. Checks out.
Condemning. Checks out.
Taking it very personally. Checks out.
Hostile? Checks out.

Someone talking about repent..... hmm.gif



This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 4 2023, 08:12 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 4 2023, 08:21 PM

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Matthew 26: 51-52 (NIV) - “ 51 With that, one of Jesus’ companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.
52“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

Luke 9:53-55 (NIV) - 53 but the people there did not welcome him, because he was heading for Jerusalem. 54 When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, “Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them ?” 55 But Jesus turned and rebuked them

Christ rebukes his disciple who thinks hostility should be part of the Christian life.


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post Mar 4 2023, 08:55 PM

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Mar 6 2023, 10:00 AM
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TSunknown warrior
post Mar 4 2023, 09:04 PM

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And you are still missing the point. Jesus rebuked them for having a wrong type of spirit. That is what is happening to you right now.

And I don't agree I've abused any scripture. You on the other hand exhibited a very typical trait, thinking it's what God wants.

I really shake my head. shakehead.gif
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 4 2023, 09:09 PM

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In summary. Everything that has been recorded in scripture.

God is quite concerned in how we treat one another. If you don't have love, you do not know God. You can claim all you want but The Lord is not with such type of people.

There are many people who actually think they're acting on behalf of God. Christ even said people who kill other think they're doing this for God.

When you say "You Wished..with a lol, that's having a murderous spirit. By right a Christian should not even have such a thought.

I find it's usually the case whenever one who shout so much for obedience, it's perhaps they themselves have problems obeying hence the feeling of the need to defend it.

You should really repent, instead of pointing your finger. You are not qualified. You are not God.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 4 2023, 09:13 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 4 2023, 09:16 PM

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There is a huge difference between of what I meant when I say repentance cannot a be made as a criteria versus suggesting there is no need for repentance.

Try digest that for a moment.
desmond2020
post Mar 4 2023, 09:18 PM

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oh... anger management issues

no wonder everyday proud with his so called immune to porn addiction.

well.
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post Mar 4 2023, 09:26 PM

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TSunknown warrior
post Mar 4 2023, 09:28 PM

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Having a judgmental spirit is wrong, and so is sarcasm. Is it right for Christians to be sarcastic? I don't know but is it loving?

Definition.

QUOTE
Sarcasm is the use of irony (saying one thing while meaning another) or other rhetorical devices in a biting, hurtful way. There is a difference between sarcasm and satire, although they are related. Satire is the use of irony or ridicule to expose foolishness, but without the “bite” of sarcasm. Satire is gentler; sarcasm is more derisive and sneering.


Not much love there.
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post Mar 4 2023, 09:31 PM

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I said such traits, is that how God wants?

Now you're talking about being convinced of what God wants.

Is it the same thing?
desmond2020
post Mar 4 2023, 09:32 PM

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there is one thing about the disciple though

remember the quote spirit is willing but body is weak?

it remind us that we still have the weakness of flesh even saved. don't be too cocky thinking you have your lust under reign. for you haven't be really tested.

for these years, i have met many Christian like this, act like they have good conduct but their faith is built on sandy ground. it crumble like castle build with sand when the test come. when one being tested and fail the test, it is their lust that defiled them from within.
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post Mar 4 2023, 09:35 PM

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Look Desmond, If you have eyes to see.

I want the same thing for you. It's not about being cocky.

I'm trying to dispense the way... how you can overcome it by God's way.

See or not?
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post Mar 4 2023, 09:36 PM

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TSunknown warrior
post Mar 4 2023, 09:37 PM

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God's way to overcome lust is effortless.

When you talk about crumbling very easy, that is only because you tried will power.

That cannot work friend. Been there.
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 4 2023, 09:39 PM

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And I'll gladly prove you wrong sharpsword. Go ahead, quote me, where did I say in my post? Go ahead.

Still don't get the difference?

I'll prove that you're the one who have issue reading.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 4 2023, 09:41 PM
desmond2020
post Mar 4 2023, 09:41 PM

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you preach a different gospel than what i received

there is no compromise here and there can be no compromise

let just said that if you think you are good with what you have, let just keep it that way. ie whatever float your boat

oh, work on that anger management will you. I sense that it could be weakness that make the whole thing crumble like house of card.


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post Mar 4 2023, 09:44 PM

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if you have been trying for so many years and it's still not working?

Perhaps you may want to consider Grace as the answer?

Porn is a big issue for many Christians. Me included the last time, what u said is something I understand completely. Not judging, just saying been there.
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post Mar 4 2023, 09:49 PM

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Mar 6 2023, 10:01 AM
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desmond2020
post Mar 4 2023, 09:55 PM

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let just said that when the day come remember i had warned you

effortless? well, that didn't went very well with judas isn't it.

even disciples need to constant battle with their bodies. for example paul, hints: last verse of 1 conrithians 9. and for the starter, try study bible using translation that use 'word for word' method. for exmple ESV
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post Mar 5 2023, 07:21 AM

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TSunknown warrior
post Mar 5 2023, 12:43 PM

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So Desmond,

If you think 1 Corinthians 9:27 is saying what it is, and you want word for word do you beat your body a blow? until it's bruised (translation says below the eye and all) for this?

Better yet.

Do you obey to gouge out your eyes as what Christ commanded? If you lust....Cut off your arms?

Amputated?


TSunknown warrior
post Mar 5 2023, 12:45 PM

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Yes the workings of God in the believers life in changing the person is effortless IE nothing to do with your exerted effort.

What has Judas got to do with this? He was lost due to something else. Nothing to do with 1 Corinthians 9:27.
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 5 2023, 12:48 PM

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I notice what I said in Post #277 was conveniently not answered.

I wonder why? laugh.gif

All I'm seeing now are insinuations of what is not said but being pushed as if it was said.

I call that slander.

So much talk of darkness and he is the one doing it.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 5 2023, 12:49 PM
SharpSword
post Mar 5 2023, 12:50 PM

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TSunknown warrior
post Mar 5 2023, 12:50 PM

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And nobody is talking about mind power. My goodness.

The comprehension is horrible.
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post Mar 5 2023, 12:53 PM

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QUOTE(SharpSword @ Mar 5 2023, 12:50 PM)
See how ignorant you are about the true meaning of scripture and how you twist it to manipulate. That scripture makes it very clear the absolute  necessity to deal with sin in order to enter heaven. And if not for the fact Christ died for our sins you will be the one having to gouge out your eyes to enter heaven.
*
Okay so how do you deal with sin in this context?
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post Mar 5 2023, 04:07 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 5 2023, 12:45 PM)
Yes the workings of God in the believers life in changing the person is effortless IE nothing to do with your exerted effort.

What has Judas got to do with this? He was lost due to something else. Nothing to do with 1 Corinthians 9:27.
*
define 'something else' will you

rolleyes.gif
desmond2020
post Mar 5 2023, 04:15 PM

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and what on earth Matthew 18:9 gotta do with 1 Corinthian 9:27? rclxub.gif

and what on earth that gonna do with 'word for word' translation and 'thought for thought' translation?

the danger of 'thought for thought' translation is always with the denomination bias of the translator while 'word for word' translation has this problem but at much lesser extent. literal translation of bible is always better, as reader can then form their own opinion with help of HS. while thought for though translation is rather dangerous when translator try to slip in their bias.

doh.gif

anyway, do your eye really make you sin? is it not the lust within that make you sin? isn't it that even you are without your sensory organ that you are still capable of sinning?

oh wait, sin doesn't matter for you anymore. rolleyes.gif
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 5 2023, 04:15 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Mar 5 2023, 04:07 PM)
define 'something else' will you

rolleyes.gif
*
Judas did not believe Jesus was the Messiah.

I'll ask you in return, what has 1 Corinthians 9:27 got to do with him?
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 5 2023, 04:16 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Mar 5 2023, 04:15 PM)
and what on earth Matthew 18:9 gotta do with 1 Corinthian 9:27?  rclxub.gif

and what on earth that gonna do with 'word for word' translation and 'thought for thought' translation?

the danger of 'thought for thought' translation is always with the denomination bias of the translator while 'word for word' translation has this problem but at much lesser extent. literal translation of bible is always better, as reader can then form their own opinion with help of HS. while thought for though translation is rather dangerous when translator try to slip in their bias.

doh.gif

anyway, do your eye really make you sin? is it not the lust within that make you sin? isn't it that even you are without your sensory organ that you are still capable of sinning?

oh wait, sin doesn't matter for you anymore.  rolleyes.gif
*
That was what you ask for in Post #281?



TSunknown warrior
post Mar 5 2023, 04:19 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Mar 5 2023, 04:15 PM)


anyway, do your eye really make you sin? is it not the lust within that make you sin? isn't it that even you are without your sensory organ that you are still capable of sinning?

oh wait, sin doesn't matter for you anymore.  rolleyes.gif
*
Oh you don't know? Your eye is a gateway?

Matthew 18:9 (ESV) And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.


My My. The one who think I don't know what sin is.
desmond2020
post Mar 5 2023, 04:21 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 5 2023, 04:19 PM)
Oh you don't know? Your eye is a gateway?

Matthew 18:9 (ESV) And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.
My My. The one who think I don't know what sin is.
*
so, you eyes is the one that make you sins? not the lust within you?

oh my
desmond2020
post Mar 5 2023, 04:22 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 5 2023, 04:15 PM)
Judas did not believe Jesus was the Messiah.

I'll ask you in return, what has  1 Corinthians 9:27 got to do with him?
*
and how does you know Judas never believed in Jesus?

psychic power again?

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Mar 5 2023, 04:24 PM
desmond2020
post Mar 5 2023, 04:36 PM

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Billy W.
Was Judas ever saved?


Friday, May 06, 2016
Growing up I was taught to believe that Judas, the betrayer, was never saved. That since he betrayed Christ, and scripture says in the end he was possessed by Satan (Luke 22:3), that he was never saved. Scripture also says that Judas was a child of Satan and doomed to destruction (John 17:12)



This faulty understanding came from faulty foundations:

I believed that because someone was destined for destruction, they couldn’t have ever been saved.
I believed that if you were a true believer, you could never abandon your faith.


Matthew 10:1-8

Jesus summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.

Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; and James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed Him.

These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: “Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give.



Christ is sending the 12 disciples out to teach and show the miraculous power of God. A disciple is a follower of Christ; one who has put faith (even as small as a mustard seed) in the Lord. This is the same word for disciple that Jesus uses in Matt 28:19, in that we should “make disciples.”



Things to highlight

Jesus summoned 12
Jesus gave them authority
Judas is specifically mentioned as one of the 12, and thus one of them that received authority
These 12 went out
These 12 freely received and were to freely give


And in the same context…



Matthew 10:16

“Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.



In the same context of the 12 going out, Christ says that He sent them out as sheep.



Judas was one of the 12 who freely received, and who had been given authority, and was counted by Christ as one of His sheep. The Spirit was with Judas, as Judas had the power to heal, cast out demons, and raise the dead.



John 17:6-12

“I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You; for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me. I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours; and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them. I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are. While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them was lost but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.



In John 17, Jesus is praying specifically for His twelve disciples. What does He say:

They were the Fathers, and He gave them to the Son
They had received and truly understood who Christ was, and they believed in Him
Christ was glorified in them


Christ says that not one of them were lost, except the son of perdition. Christ is speaking of Judas. Judas was lost. He cannot be lost unless he was not lost at one time. He was a sheep, and had been lost because he willfully wandered away from the Lord.



Christ has promised to keep and protect us (John 10:25-30), and that’s what He did with the disciples here. But the power to keep us remains so long as we remain, by faith, in Him:



1 Peter 1:3-5

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By his great mercy he gave us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, that is, into an inheritance imperishable, undefiled, and unfading. It is reserved in heaven for you, who by God’s power are protected through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.



If we deny Him, He will deny us (2 Tim. 2:11-13).



Just because Judas was doomed to destruction, and that God knew in advance that Judas would betray Him, does not mean that he was not of the faith at one time. Judas is very much like the prophet Balaam; both believed and were given the blessing of supernatural spiritual gifts, and yet they both fell away from their faith and ceased to abide in Him. They did not endure until the end, but chased after their own pleasures.



Matthew 7:22-23

On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds?’ Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’



Christ gives a similar parable with the ten virgins who had oil (the Holy Spirit) and walked away, and likewise Christ says that He didn’t know them (Matt.25:11-12).



Christ says that at the judgment, many will say they prophesied, cast out demons, and performed miracles in His name.



These people are not mere professors of faith without works and without practice, but people who had genuine good and powerful works. These people have many works, and they will call on Jesus Himself to testify to their works on Earth. They also did their works in the Lord’s name and by His power.



Christ states that at the judgment, He will say to them that He never knew them; go away from me you lawbreakers. These people were of the faith (and obeying the gospel), but walked away and became lawless (not obeying the gospel of faith).



Some may point out that Christ says that “He never knew” these people, meaning that at no time were these people true born-again believers. This goes against scriptures teaching that we can know those that are children of God (1 John 3:7-8, 10; Matt.7:16-17; Acts 11:22-23).



God is omniscient, and God know all things and all people. No one would deny this. We know that Christ doesn’t mean that He never knew these people in this way. Christ is speaking of His eternal omniscience, and Him knowing the eternal outcome of history.



Scripture teaches that a righteous man (righteousness only comes by faith) that turns to wickedness and never repents back to the Lord will die in their sin. The Lord says that He will not remember their righteous works (they will be under His wrath at the judgment). God can obviously not forget, but the eternal perspective is that they never had righteous works, because they willfully walked away from the Lord. This is the same idea with Matt.7:22-23. Christ always knew these people would abandon Him, just like He knew Judas would abandon Him (Psalm 41:9). Eternally, He never knew them.



For a detailed study on our keeping and maintaining our faith, see Part 5b of the Master Plan and Purpose for Mankind.


prophetjul
post Mar 6 2023, 07:38 AM

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The toxicity of the hyper grace teachings of Joseph Prince.

https://www.revgeorgeong.com/yvonne-tans-te...99-to-jan-2021/

QUOTE
For example, we were often taught that we should always declare that “I am the righteousness of God in Christ”. I was like a parrot who kept repeating that phrase, feeling and thinking that I am always righteous in front of God because He only sees Jesus in my life.



We were reminded by Joseph Prince to keep declaring that even more when we are sinning because we must remember that God does not see our sins because we are covered with Jesus’s robe of righteousness. God is always pleased with us because He only sees the finished work Jesus has accomplished on the cross for us.



I have to admit that this teaching felt liberating and refreshing when I first heard it. It felt good to think that no matter what I do, it doesn’t really matter because anyway God doesn’t see the wrongs or sins I have committed but only Jesus’ finished work. In reality, it is actually such a dangerous teaching because it actually makes believers unconsciously take sins very lightly, which I did.



Along with the teaching of declaring I am the righteousness of God in Christ; Joseph Prince aligns his teachings with how the Holy Spirit comes only to convict us of righteousness and never to convict a believer his sins. He emphasizes that the Holy Spirit will never point out our faults and believers are living in defeat because they don’t understand that the Holy Spirit is only here to convict them of their righteousness in Christ!



But John 16:8, “And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement,” says that the Holy Spirit inside us helps to bring us to the realization of our sinfulness and our guilt before God.



Imagine that the Holy Spirit whom God sends to every believer will never prompt or tell a believer when he is wrong or in sin but instead will only be telling the believer to remember how righteous he is because of Jesus. That he should continue to declare his righteousness in Christ even when he is committing the sin and the Holy Spirit who is God will never convict him of his sins? Even though it was such a strange and false teaching, I believed it and did exactly that even when I sinned. How deceived I was by such evil teachings of Joseph Prince!



Joseph Prince loves to use the example or testimony of how a man who was addicted to pornography would be declaring, “I am the righteousness of God in Christ” even as he watched porn and the Holy Spirit inside him would convict him of his righteousness which is in Christ!!! And slowly but surely, this man will lose his desire to watch porn and he is delivered from his addiction through this way. This teaching is so toxic and dangerous.



In fact, Joseph Prince teaches us that all our sins, past, present and future have all been forgiven and we do not have to confess our sins in order to get forgiveness. We were taught that if we confess our sins, we negate what Jesus has done for us on the cross.

GaunterO'Dimm P
post Mar 6 2023, 08:37 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Feb 28 2023, 12:43 PM)
When you are strong, God backs away, but when you cannot, God comes in - The working of God's Spirit

2 Corinthians 12:9 (NIV) - But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me.

Hi Everyone, God's Grace to you and your love ones.

Today we will talk on how to get God's Holy Spirit to work in us. 2 Corinthians 12:9 tells us how. God will not work in you if you try to be strong in yourself.  As Christians, we need to always come to a place of vulnerability. There will be people who don't like this. Nobody likes to be vulnerable but it's the only way for God to work in us.

In the natural we may feel ashamed for weaknesses but not so with God. God delights in our weaknesses. God loves to use the weak things. So if you have many many weaknesses, guess what? You're a good candidate for God to work in.

And it's vital to understand unless God works in the person, there can be no fruits or results. We all want changes, we all want obedience and repentance even.
For that to happen, God must work in your life. <==Where is the basis for this theology that says unless God is the one, you cannot?

Well look at this verse.

Philippians 2:13 (NIV) - for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

And this verse.

John 15:5 (NIV) - “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

With all that being said it is also important to know; in order for The Holy Spirit to work in you, you need to be connected to God. I mean that is obvious.
And in order to be connected to God, you need to know your new position in Christ

As believers in Christ, you must understand your sins have been put away by Christ's blood on the cross. This will take a bit of explaining. But it's important to know.

Our new position = We have been washed cleaned. This is the position you must hold fast to. Don't allow anyone to convince you out of it. You need to repent and believe this. I'll explain later why this is important.

As born again believer, you may not be perfect and may fail here or there. But understand your new position. Your failure(s) does not define you. Christ Jesus now defines you. <== This.
The bible states very clearly. Christ is not going come down from heaven again to die on the cross every time you fail.  The Salvation offered on the cross is not confined to the limit of time nor natural space. It avails anytime anywhere.
As born again believer, If you failed, Pray like this; " Abba in Heaven, I thank you for the cross. The sin (you can name it, whatever it was) that I've just committed has been judged by you at the cross and has been redeemed by Christ's blood. I receive your forgiveness and repent of it, help me to move on by your holy spirit.

Then pray this prayer.

"Abba in Heaven, I have no power to overcome this sin. I have absolutely no strength to abstain from it. I will surely fail if I even try to abstain. I ask for the work of your Holy Spirit in this weakness. Take away that wrongful desire or sinful desire. I don't want it. According to your word, I gladly admit this is my weakness, let your grace and strength rest on me. Fill my mind with what is only virtuous, good and clean thoughts from heaven.

It may be a bit confusing at the beginning but just understand 2 fundamental truth.

1. Christ Jesus has taken care of your sin. Don't try do anything to contradict this.

2. God's Holy Spirit will only work in you when you relent and surrender that you cannot.

Why is weakness so important? God cannot save the person who is strong. As analogy, You cannot save a drowning person who is struggling with his might, both will be in danger of drowning. You can only save when he/she stops struggling and allow to be saved. Hope this simple analogy helps.

God's principles is the opposite of this world. In this world, we look to the strongest, the  fastest, the tallest. What Man esteem is something that God doesn't.

Anyway, there you have it, the working of God's Holy Spirit. This is how we get to repentance and obedience.

God Bless.

*
this one resonates with me.

hope other christians understand this

u need to be weak and helpless like a child

a true christian is someone who is weak and humble all the time

a true christian is honest and says to himself and to God that he cannot stop sinning

never relying on his strength for his righteousness and never want to judge others


TSunknown warrior
post Mar 6 2023, 08:39 AM

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QUOTE(GaunterO'Dimm @ Mar 6 2023, 08:37 AM)
this one resonates with me.

hope other christians understand this

u need to be weak and helpless like a child

a true christian is someone who is weak and humble all the time

a true christian is honest and says to himself and to God that he cannot stop sinning

never relying on his strength for his righteousness and never want to judge others
*
Thank you Bro.

This is scripture truth.
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 6 2023, 08:41 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Mar 5 2023, 04:21 PM)
so, you eyes is the one that make you sins? not the lust within you?

oh my
*
QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Mar 5 2023, 04:22 PM)
and how does you know Judas never believed in Jesus?

psychic power again?
*
QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Mar 5 2023, 04:36 PM)
Billy W.
Was Judas ever saved?
Friday, May 06, 2016
Growing up I was taught to believe that Judas, the betrayer, was never saved. That since he betrayed Christ, and scripture says in the end he was possessed by Satan (Luke 22:3), that he was never saved. Scripture also says that Judas was a child of Satan and doomed to destruction (John 17:12)
This faulty understanding came from faulty foundations:

I believed that because someone was destined for destruction, they couldn’t have ever been saved.
I believed that if you were a true believer, you could never abandon your faith.
Matthew 10:1-8

Jesus summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.

Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; and James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus; Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed Him.

These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: “Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give.
Christ is sending the 12 disciples out to teach and show the miraculous power of God. A disciple is a follower of Christ; one who has put faith (even as small as a mustard seed) in the Lord. This is the same word for disciple that Jesus uses in Matt 28:19, in that we should “make disciples.”
Things to highlight

Jesus summoned 12
Jesus gave them authority
Judas is specifically mentioned as one of the 12, and thus one of them that received authority
These 12 went out
These 12 freely received and were to freely give
And in the same context…
Matthew 10:16

“Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.
In the same context of the 12 going out, Christ says that He sent them out as sheep.
Judas was one of the 12 who freely received, and who had been given authority, and was counted by Christ as one of His sheep. The Spirit was with Judas, as Judas had the power to heal, cast out demons, and raise the dead.
John 17:6-12

“I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You; for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me. I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours; and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them. I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are. While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them was lost but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
In John 17, Jesus is praying specifically for His twelve disciples. What does He say:

They were the Fathers, and He gave them to the Son
They had received and truly understood who Christ was, and they believed in Him
Christ was glorified in them
Christ says that not one of them were lost, except the son of perdition. Christ is speaking of Judas. Judas was lost. He cannot be lost unless he was not lost at one time. He was a sheep, and had been lost because he willfully wandered away from the Lord.
Christ has promised to keep and protect us (John 10:25-30), and that’s what He did with the disciples here. But the power to keep us remains so long as we remain, by faith, in Him:
1 Peter 1:3-5

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By his great mercy he gave us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, that is, into an inheritance imperishable, undefiled, and unfading. It is reserved in heaven for you, who by God’s power are protected through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
If we deny Him, He will deny us (2 Tim. 2:11-13).
Just because Judas was doomed to destruction, and that God knew in advance that Judas would betray Him, does not mean that he was not of the faith at one time. Judas is very much like the prophet Balaam; both believed and were given the blessing of supernatural spiritual gifts, and yet they both fell away from their faith and ceased to abide in Him. They did not endure until the end, but chased after their own pleasures.
Matthew 7:22-23

On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds?’ Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’
Christ gives a similar parable with the ten virgins who had oil (the Holy Spirit) and walked away, and likewise Christ says that He didn’t know them (Matt.25:11-12).
Christ says that at the judgment, many will say they prophesied, cast out demons, and performed miracles in His name.
These people are not mere professors of faith without works and without practice, but people who had genuine good and powerful works. These people have many works, and they will call on Jesus Himself to testify to their works on Earth. They also did their works in the Lord’s name and by His power.
Christ states that at the judgment, He will say to them that He never knew them; go away from me you lawbreakers. These people were of the faith (and obeying the gospel), but walked away and became lawless (not obeying the gospel of faith).
Some may point out that Christ says that “He never knew” these people, meaning that at no time were these people true born-again believers. This goes against scriptures teaching that we can know those that are children of God (1 John 3:7-8, 10; Matt.7:16-17; Acts 11:22-23).
God is omniscient, and God know all things and all people. No one would deny this. We know that Christ doesn’t mean that He never knew these people in this way. Christ is speaking of His eternal omniscience, and Him knowing the eternal outcome of history.
Scripture teaches that a righteous man (righteousness only comes by faith) that turns to wickedness and never repents back to the Lord will die in their sin. The Lord says that He will not remember their righteous works (they will be under His wrath at the judgment). God can obviously not forget, but the eternal perspective is that they never had righteous works, because they willfully walked away from the Lord. This is the same idea with Matt.7:22-23. Christ always knew these people would abandon Him, just like He knew Judas would abandon Him (Psalm 41:9). Eternally, He never knew them.
For a detailed study on our keeping and maintaining our faith, see Part 5b of the Master Plan and Purpose for Mankind.
*
LOL, from the above replies it's confirm that you're just arguing everything against me on purpose even if yours doesn't make any sense.

Yes Jesus Christ himself said If your eyes caused you to sin, that was from the lips of God himself.

You're doubting Bible now?

So you're saying Judas was saved?????

Oh my. laugh.gif

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 6 2023, 08:43 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 6 2023, 08:49 AM

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I find it very weird.

If a brother testify that God has delivered him from the bondage of pornography.

BY right another brother should praise God and be happy for such a miracle.

but instead this person gives a stern warning, with somewhat of a hope that he will crumble.

I mean what kind of a spirit is that?????

Is that even a Christian trait???

I really wonder on this for past couple of days.

It can only dawn on me this person has a wrong spirit in him operating.




desmond2020
post Mar 6 2023, 08:52 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 6 2023, 08:41 AM)
LOL, from the above replies it's confirm that you're just arguing everything against me on purpose even if yours doesn't make any sense.

Yes Jesus Christ himself said If your eyes caused you to sin, that was from the lips of God himself.

You're doubting Bible now?

So you're saying Judas was saved?????

Oh my.  laugh.gif
*
so pastor, have your eyes and hand make you sin today? mega_shok.gif
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 6 2023, 08:59 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Mar 6 2023, 08:52 AM)
so pastor, have your eyes and hand make you sin today? mega_shok.gif
*
The phrase if your eyes or hand cause you to sin was repeated in Gospel of Mark as well confirming its validity.

Even the BIble says to offer your body as a living sacrifice. Meaning any part of your body can be an instrument to either glorify God or sin against God.

Romans 6:13 (New Living Translation) -
Do not let any part of your body become an instrument of evil to serve sin. Instead, give yourselves completely to God, for you were dead, but now you have new life. So use your whole body as an instrument to do what is right for the glory of God.

I'm surprise that you don't know this.

And you question if I know about sin?

Oh my.
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 6 2023, 09:04 AM

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Romans 6:19 (New American Standard Bible) -

I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented the parts of your body as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your body’s parts as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
desmond2020
post Mar 6 2023, 09:08 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 6 2023, 08:59 AM)
The phrase if your eyes or hand cause you to sin was repeated in Gospel of Mark as well confirming its validity.

Even the BIble says to offer your body as a living sacrifice. Meaning any part of your body can be an instrument to either glorify God or sin against God.

Romans 6:13 (New Living Translation) -
Do not let any part of your body become an instrument of evil to serve sin. Instead, give yourselves completely to God, for you were dead, but now you have new life. So use your whole body as an instrument to do what is right for the glory of God.

I'm surprise that you don't know this.

And you question if I know about sin?

Oh my.
*
oh man

instrument mean it doesn't have mind of its own, so pastor, hand itself wont sin on it own rolleyes.gif
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 6 2023, 09:22 AM

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Let me share a bit on lust and pornography.

It is one thing to entertain pornographic material but it's another matter to engage in prostitution.

If you have visited and engage with prostitute, you need to repent.

If you have done this, you have opened door or gateway for demonic spirit to have legal rights over your life.

And you wonder why you're exhibiting Bitterness, Sarcastic, Hatred even for another human being.

Christ Jesus has call us to love one another.

The Bible has called us Christian to be kind with one another.

If you are in the realm of darkness, you will exhibit Bitterness, Sarcastic, Hatred, Lust, Arrogance, Pride, Rebellion, Jealousy, dissensions, factions, etc.

If you are in the realm of Light, you will exhibit love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

Based on these 2 traits, people will know whether you belong to God or the devil.

And for those who don't know, in the behind scene operating such sinful traits are demonic spirit intruding in the person's life.





desmond2020
post Mar 6 2023, 09:32 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 6 2023, 09:22 AM)
Let me share a bit on lust and pornography.

It is one thing to entertain pornographic material but it's another matter to engage in prostitution.

If you have visited and engage with prostitute, you need to repent.

If you have done this, you have opened  door or gateway for demonic spirit to have legal rights over your life.

And you wonder why you're exhibiting Bitterness, Sarcastic, Hatred even for another human being.

Christ Jesus has call us to love one another.

The Bible has called us Christian to be kind with one another.

If you are in the realm of darkness, you will exhibit Bitterness, Sarcastic, Hatred, Lust, Arrogance, Pride, Rebellion, Jealousy, dissensions, factions, etc.

If you are in the realm of Light, you will exhibit love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

Based on these 2 traits, people will know whether you belong to God or the devil.

And for those who don't know, in the behind scene operating such sinful traits are demonic spirit intruding in the person's life.
*
oh dear, did you visited prostitute?

anyway, I can say i have only one sex partner in my life who is my wife. Pastor, how about you?

anyway, when i said about Judas, i mean he was once saved but of course you want to believe as i mean judas go to heaven. of course not, judas forsake the name that purchased him from bondage of sin and hence is destined to hell. Was Judas once saved? absolutely. do you know what jesus required of his disciple when he called them to follow him?

Do Not Be Anxious
22 And he said to his disciples, “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat, nor about your body, what you will put on. 23 For life is more than food, and the body more than clothing. 24 Consider the ravens: they neither sow nor reap, they have neither storehouse nor barn, and yet God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds! 25 And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life?[c] 26 If then you are not able to do as small a thing as that, why are you anxious about the rest? 27 Consider the lilies, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin,[d] yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 28 But if God so clothes the grass, which is alive in the field today, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, how much more will he clothe you, O you of little faith! 29 And do not seek what you are to eat and what you are to drink, nor be worried. 30 For all the nations of the world seek after these things, and your Father knows that you need them. 31 Instead, seek his[e] kingdom, and these things will be added to you.

32 “Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Luke 12 ESV

I wonder how many christians today can do this?

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Mar 6 2023, 09:38 AM
SharpSword
post Mar 6 2023, 09:42 AM

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Mar 6 2023, 09:45 AM
This post has been deleted by unknown warrior because: No Name calling and you are no longer welcome.

TSunknown warrior
post Mar 6 2023, 09:46 AM

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Sharpsword, let this be a warning to you.

It seems that most of your post in the forum are hostile in nature and you frequently attack people. In other parts of the forum, exhibiting a holier than thou attitude.

Your problem is that you misconstrue what I say and you put words into my mouth of things I didn't say.

When I challenge you to prove me otherwise, you couldn't. <====THIS.

Hence base on that it can only be summarise you are only here to cause trouble.

I will no longer entertain such.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 6 2023, 09:57 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 6 2023, 09:52 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Mar 6 2023, 09:32 AM)
oh dear, did you visited prostitute?

anyway, I can say i have only one sex partner in my life who is my wife. Pastor, how about you?

anyway, when i said about Judas, i mean he was once saved but of course you want to believe as i mean judas go to heaven. of course not, judas forsake the name that purchased him for bondage of sin and hence is destined to hell. Was Judas once saved? absolutely. do you know what jesus required of his disciple when he called them to follow him?

Do Not Be Anxious
22 And he said to his disciples, “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat, nor about your body, what you will put on. 23 For life is more than food, and the body more than clothing. 24 Consider the ravens: they neither sow nor reap, they have neither storehouse nor barn, and yet God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds! 25 And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life?[c] 26 If then you are not able to do as small a thing as that, why are you anxious about the rest? 27 Consider the lilies, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin,[d] yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 28 But if God so clothes the grass, which is alive in the field today, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, how much more will he clothe you, O you of little faith! 29 And do not seek what you are to eat and what you are to drink, nor be worried. 30 For all the nations of the world seek after these things, and your Father knows that you need them. 31 Instead, seek his[e] kingdom, and these things will be added to you.

32 “Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Luke 12 ESV

I wonder how many christians today can do this?
*
Pls check abit on theology.

The Bible states only with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, one is sealed like a guarantee deposit for Salvation.

Prior to Christ death and resurrection and until the Holy Spirit was sent, how could they be saved as in Christians today?

Sorry but I disagree that Judas was saved. There is a difference between Holy Spirit coming on them for them to perform miracles vs coming in them for indwelling.

I think you should really stop.

And other than sharpsword,

I'm not going to entertain anymore of your time-wasting always trying to counter it's getting in the way of what God wants to minister.

SharpSword
post Mar 6 2023, 10:01 AM

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Mar 6 2023, 10:08 AM
This post has been deleted by unknown warrior because: misconstruing

TSunknown warrior
post Mar 6 2023, 10:13 AM

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Just to state the obvious.

I have no problem with Prophetjul or desmond for that matter.

Since many years ago, We don't agree in our doctrines but we don't label each other calling names.

NOBODY in here has the right to judge or condemn another Christian calling heretic la, etc

You on the other hand, a new account created in April 2022. Came in here disrespecting the rules.

It's not a pain really to keep troublemakers out, in fact it's the right thing to do. smile.gif

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 6 2023, 10:14 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 6 2023, 10:16 AM

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So Sharpsword.

And the fact that you are going against all the principles of Christianity leaves little room to doubt you.

As I said before.

If you are in the realm of darkness, you will exhibit Bitterness, Sarcastic, Hatred, Lust, Arrogance, Pride, Rebellion, Jealousy, dissensions, factions, etc.

If you are in the realm of Light, you will exhibit love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

Don't see any kindness in you, a lot of biting, yes.

You should do a self-reflection and look in the mirror and check yourself before condemning others.



This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 6 2023, 10:21 AM
desmond2020
post Mar 6 2023, 10:28 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 6 2023, 09:52 AM)
Pls check abit on theology.

The Bible states only with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, one is sealed like a guarantee deposit for Salvation.

Prior to Christ death and resurrection and until the Holy Spirit was sent, how could they be saved  as in Christians today?

Sorry but I disagree that Judas was saved. There is a difference between Holy Spirit coming on them for them to perform miracles vs coming in them for indwelling.

I think you should really stop.

And other than sharpsword,

I'm not going to entertain anymore of your time-wasting always trying to counter it's getting in the way of what God wants to minister.
*
So, all prophet in OT is not saved. Duly noted.

and since you said it isn't possible for HS to come prior to crucifixion. let me just post this below:-

Not only apostles, but even the prophets of the Old Testament, who are lower than apostles, had a degree of presence of Spirit in themselves, through Whom they prophesied (needn't to give references, for they are so numerous!).

In the New Testament, Elisabeth, John the Forerunner's mother, was filled with Spirit as she saw the pregnant Virgin, and she prophesied immediately (Luke 1:39-41) and so did the old widow-prophetess Anna at vision of Jesus taken to the temple (Luke 2:36-38); John the Forerunner himself was filled with Holy Spirit from his childhood (Luke 1:15), and of course the apostles, even before the Pentecost, had a degree of presence of Spirit in them (at least no less than John the Forerunner), through which presence they could act miracles; they got even to a greater degree of intensity the gift of the Spirit, when Jesus - before the Pentecost - blew in them the Spirit and added to them (through this new dimension of the presence of Spirit) an ability to forgive sins (John 20:22).

Thus, the Pentecost is the culmination, the ultimate gift of Spirit, when the apostles get Him to such an extent and intensity that they can already be emboldened by Him to preach to all corners of the world, withstanding all calamities and opposing powers. However, of course, the apostles had smack of the Spirit even before, for even before Spirit was present in them to a certain degree and intensity; they possessed the Spirit-ual gifts even before the Pentecost, however the gifts of the Infinite Spirit are also infinite and at the Pentecost they got a greater share of this graceful infinity, so as to totally be absorbed in it.



And make no mistake, you have no authority over me. rolleyes.gif
desmond2020
post Mar 6 2023, 10:30 AM

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so pastor, you accuse me of visiting prostitute

now, where is the proof?
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 6 2023, 11:08 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Mar 6 2023, 10:28 AM)
So, all prophet in OT is not saved. Duly noted.

and since you said it isn't possible for HS to come prior to crucifixion. let me just post this below:-

Not only apostles, but even the prophets of the Old Testament, who are lower than apostles, had a degree of presence of Spirit in themselves, through Whom they prophesied (needn't to give references, for they are so numerous!).

In the New Testament, Elisabeth, John the Forerunner's mother, was filled with Spirit as she saw the pregnant Virgin, and she prophesied immediately (Luke 1:39-41) and so did the old widow-prophetess Anna at vision of Jesus taken to the temple (Luke 2:36-38); John the Forerunner himself was filled with Holy Spirit from his childhood (Luke 1:15), and of course the apostles, even before the Pentecost, had a degree of presence of Spirit in them (at least no less than John the Forerunner), through which presence they could act miracles; they got even to a greater degree of intensity the gift of the Spirit, when Jesus - before the Pentecost - blew in them the Spirit and added to them (through this new dimension of the presence of Spirit) an ability to forgive sins (John 20:22).

Thus, the Pentecost is the culmination, the ultimate gift of Spirit, when the apostles get Him to such an extent and intensity that they can already be emboldened by Him to preach to all corners of the world, withstanding all calamities and opposing powers. However, of course, the apostles had smack of the Spirit even before, for even before Spirit was present in them to a certain degree and intensity; they possessed the Spirit-ual gifts even before the Pentecost, however the gifts of the Infinite Spirit are also infinite and at the Pentecost they got a greater share of this graceful infinity, so as to totally be absorbed in it.
And make no mistake, you have no authority over me.  rolleyes.gif
*
I didn't say impossible for HS to come, I said sent to be dwell in, meaning inside.

There is a difference between Holy Spirit coming on the person vs dwelling in the person.

Aiyo...Desmond.
desmond2020
post Mar 6 2023, 11:11 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 6 2023, 11:08 AM)
I didn't say impossible for HS to come, I said sent to be dwell in, meaning inside.

There is a difference between Holy Spirit coming on the person vs dwelling in the person.

Aiyo...Desmond.
*
so before Pentecost, when HS come it stay outside? which bible verse tell you that? ohmai yawn.gif
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 6 2023, 11:13 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Mar 6 2023, 11:11 AM)
so before Pentecost, when HS come it stay outside? which bible verse tell you that? ohmai  yawn.gif
*
The Holy Spirit does not stay outside.

In the OT and Prior to Christ resurrection, many of God's people has this phrase recorded;

"Being filled with the Holy Spirit." That is the H.S. coming on the person. That is different from indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

You can check this with your Pastor.

Adoi Desmond.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 6 2023, 11:14 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 6 2023, 11:18 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Mar 6 2023, 10:30 AM)
so pastor, you accuse me of visiting prostitute

now, where is the proof?
*
No, did I mention your name?
prophetjul
post Mar 6 2023, 11:19 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 6 2023, 09:52 AM)
Pls check abit on theology.

The Bible states only with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, one is sealed like a guarantee deposit for Salvation.

Prior to Christ death and resurrection and until the Holy Spirit was sent, how could they be saved  as in Christians today?

*
Scriptures is very clear about salvation whether it's in the Old or New Covenant.
It's by faith in God.

Hebrews 11 is clear.

And Romans 4

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:

20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
desmond2020
post Mar 6 2023, 11:20 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 6 2023, 11:13 AM)
The Holy Spirit does not stay outside.

In the OT and Prior to Christ resurrection, many of God's people has this phrase recorded;

"Being filled with the Holy Spirit." That is the H.S. coming on the person. That is different from indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

You can check this with your Pastor.

Adoi  Desmond.
*
41:38 So Pharaoh asked his officials, “Can we find a man like Joseph, one in whom the Spirit of God is present?”
Genesis

27:18 The Lord replied to Moses, “Take Joshua son of Nun, a man in whom is the Spirit, and lay your hand on him;
Number

4:8 Later Daniel entered (whose name is Belteshazzar after the name of my god, and in whom there is a spirit of the holy gods). I recounted the dream for him as well, 5:11 There is a man in your kingdom who has within him a spirit of the holy gods. In the days of your father, he proved to have insight, discernment, and wisdom like that of the gods. King Nebuchadnezzar your father appointed him chief of the magicians, astrologers, wise men, and diviners. 12 Thus there was found in this man Daniel, whom the king renamed Belteshazzar, an extraordinary spirit, knowledge, and skill to interpret dreams, explain riddles, and solve difficult problems. Now summon Daniel, and he will disclose the interpretation.” 13 So Daniel was brought in before the king. The king said to Daniel, “Are you that Daniel who is one of the captives of Judah, whom my father the king brought from Judah? 14 I have heard about you, how there is a spirit of the gods in you, and how you have insight, discernment, and extraordinary wisdom. 6:3 Now this Daniel was distinguishing himself above the other supervisors and the satraps, for he had an extraordinary spirit. In fact, the king intended to appoint him over the entire kingdom.
Daniel

so?
desmond2020
post Mar 6 2023, 11:33 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 6 2023, 11:19 AM)
Scriptures is very clear about salvation whether it's in the Old or New Covenant.
It's by faith in God.

Hebrews 11 is clear.

And Romans 4

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:

20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
*
I incline to believe that all believer is saved the same way, either OT or NT. and HS indwelling in all believer, OT or NT

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Mar 6 2023, 12:30 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 6 2023, 12:38 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 6 2023, 11:19 AM)
Scriptures is very clear about salvation whether it's in the Old or New Covenant.
It's by faith in God.

Hebrews 11 is clear.

And Romans 4

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:

20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
*
I agree that they were saved by their faith but scripture is consistent in it's truth. Look at the whole passage in hebrews 11.

But before this, Christ our Lord stated this truth

John 3:3 (New International Version) - Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

He told that to Nicodemus, not just any teacher but a Master teacher of Israel. He is under the old covenant.

Therefore;

If you read in Hebrews 11:39 - 40 (NIV) These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

What Hebrews 11:39-40 is saying is that these OT saint did not received what had been promised, until Christ came. What is the context of this promise?

QUOTE
Hebrews 11:13-16 (NIV)

13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.


The passage here tells us it's their promised Salvation. Again you see the phrase "They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance". Verse 16 tells us the answer of what this promise is.

Now the question that begs the answer is a mystery.

If they weren't saved until Christ's coming, where were they held?

This I don't know. Bible didn't say, I dare not say.

There are quite an argument on this but for me it is not important.

What's important is that Judas wasn't saved as implied by bro Desmond.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 6 2023, 01:03 PM
desmond2020
post Mar 6 2023, 01:14 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 6 2023, 12:38 PM)
I agree that they were saved by their faith but scripture is consistent in it's truth. Look at the whole passage in hebrews 11.

But before this, Christ our Lord stated this truth

John 3:3 (New International Version) - Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

He told that to Nicodemus, not just any teacher but a Master teacher of Israel.  He is under the old covenant.

Therefore;

If you read in Hebrews 11:39 - 40 (NIV) These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

What Hebrews 11:39-40 is saying is that these OT saint did not received what had been promised, until Christ came. What is the context of this promise?
The passage here tells us it's their promised Salvation. Again you see the phrase "They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance". Verse 16 tells us the answer of what this promise is.

Now the question that begs the answer is a mystery.

If they weren't saved until Christ's coming, where were they held?

This I don't know. Bible didn't say, I dare not say.

There are quite an argument on this but for me it is not important.

What's important is that Judas wasn't saved as implied by bro Desmond.
*
first thing, they died in faith, so their salvation is secured.

Second thing, this is talking about savior which is promised to abraham. and abraham did see jesus and its day and he rejoice John 8:56

now, i am not sure how this can be tied to salvation.

Anyway, what i said is Judas is onced saved. which you throw out the Pentecost verse saying no salvation prior to that. Which is not biblical

Throughout bible, OT and NT, men and women is commended for their faith and work resulted from faith. Only

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Mar 6 2023, 01:15 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 6 2023, 01:26 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Mar 6 2023, 01:14 PM)
first thing, they died in faith, so their salvation is secured.

Second thing, this is talking about savior which is promised to abraham. and abraham did see jesus and its day and he rejoice John 8:56

now, i am not sure how this can be tied to salvation.

Anyway, what i said is Judas is onced saved. which you throw out the Pentecost verse saying no salvation prior to that. Which is not biblical

Throughout bible, OT and NT, men and women is commended for their faith and work resulted from faith. Only
*
I'm not throwing out anything. The Holy Spirit can be filled in the person for God's work of miracles. Being filled with Holy Spirit is not the same as the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Judas like other apostles was filled with the HS but does not have the indwelling of HS because Christ has not ascended to Heaven yet at that point.

For a person to be save means He/She has the indwelling of HS.

QUOTE
John 3:5-8 (NIV) -
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”



And here comes the question.

Can a person have the Holy Spirit and Satan together in the same body? For me, No.

Satan entered into Judas, mind you.

So how could he have been saved?
desmond2020
post Mar 6 2023, 01:32 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 6 2023, 01:26 PM)
I'm not throwing out anything. The Holy Spirit can be filled in the person for God's work of miracles. Being filled with Holy Spirit is not the same as the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Judas like other apostles was filled with the HS but does not have the indwelling of HS because Christ has not ascended to Heaven yet at that point.

For a person to be save means He/She has the indwelling of HS.
And here comes the question.

Can a person have the Holy Spirit and Satan together in the same body? For me, No.

Satan entered into Judas, mind you.

So how could he have been saved?
*
when satan entered judas is recorded during the last supper correct? prior to that Judas already sold jesus to priest for 30 silver coins right?. which mean he already forsake the name who save him. which mean HS is no longer with him

hope that answer your question
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 6 2023, 01:41 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Mar 6 2023, 01:32 PM)
when satan entered judas is recorded during the last supper correct? prior to that Judas already sold jesus to priest for 30 silver coins right?. which mean he already forsake the name who save him. which mean HS is no longer with him

hope that answer your question
*
So you can agree the HS was no longer with him, this means the filling the Holy Spirit comes and go. This is what we mean, Holy Spirit coming on the person. Being filled with HS does not mean the person is saved.

The indwelling of the HS on the other hand is one time, a result of saving grace upon receiving Jesus into our lives .

Judas did not have the indwelling of the HS, that is quite established in scripture. That is key to indicate whether he is saved or not.

Judas have never believe Jesus to be the messiah. You did not agree. I can show you otherwise.

Judas only see Jesus as a Rabbi but never as Son of God or Messiah.

He already rejected Jesus as Christ quite a while even before the 30 silver coins.
desmond2020
post Mar 6 2023, 01:49 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 6 2023, 01:41 PM)
So you can agree the HS was no longer with him, this means the filling the Holy Spirit comes and go. This is what we mean, Holy Spirit coming on the person. Being filled with HS does not mean the person is saved.

The indwelling of the HS on the other hand is one time, a result of saving grace upon receiving Jesus into our lives .

Judas did not have the indwelling of the HS, that is quite established in scripture. That is key to indicate whether he is saved or not.

Judas have never believe Jesus to be the messiah. You did not agree. I can show you otherwise.

Judas only see Jesus as a Rabbi but never as Son of God or Messiah.

He already rejected Jesus as Christ quite a while even before the 30 silver coins.
*
if you mean that judas called jesus rabbi, then afraid that Peter also called jesus rabbi

Rabbi is a term at that time refer to teacher, it is not an occupation but a tittle given by jews to person they follow

like i say before this, it is perfectly possible for man to lost their salvation after being born again. there are numerous cases in bible, OT and NT

of course you will disagree on this, but anyway.


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post Mar 6 2023, 02:04 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Mar 6 2023, 01:49 PM)
if you mean that judas called jesus rabbi, then afraid that Peter also called jesus rabbi

Rabbi is a term at that time refer to teacher, it is not an occupation but a tittle given by jews to person they follow

like i say before this, it is perfectly possible for man to lost their salvation after being born again. there are numerous cases in bible, OT and NT

of course you will disagree on this, but anyway.
*
The 11 apostles all at one point called Jesus as Rabbi but they also called Jesus as Lord, Messiah, Son of God, etc. Hence they recognize who Jesus is.

Judas as we see in the bible, usually call and recognize Jesus as Rabbi and nothing else. <===This.

This show he never see Jesus as Son of God or Messiah. This is the indication he was never saved.

It's not for me to say who can lose their salvation. Only God knows who is save or not.

All I know from Bible God wants his people to be fully assured that they are saved by his Son. The key is to look away from what they do...(not about doing) but to look to Jesus Christ to save.

The devil has successfully convince some to look away from Christ and to look at themselves to be saved.

This is why I endeavour so hard to fight this.





prophetjul
post Mar 6 2023, 02:55 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 6 2023, 12:38 PM)
I agree that they were saved by their faith but scripture is consistent in it's truth. Look at the whole passage in hebrews 11.

But before this, Christ our Lord stated this truth

John 3:3 (New International Version) - Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

He told that to Nicodemus, not just any teacher but a Master teacher of Israel.  He is under the old covenant.

Therefore;

If you read in Hebrews 11:39 - 40 (NIV) These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

What Hebrews 11:39-40 is saying is that these OT saint did not received what had been promised, until Christ came. What is the context of this promise?
The passage here tells us it's their promised Salvation. Again you see the phrase "They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance". Verse 16 tells us the answer of what this promise is.

Now the question that begs the answer is a mystery.

If they weren't saved until Christ's coming, where were they held?

This I don't know. Bible didn't say, I dare not say.

There are quite an argument on this but for me it is not important.

What's important is that Judas wasn't saved as implied by bro Desmond.
*
Salvation has always been by faith in God, be it in the OT or NT.
Look at Romans 4 again about the justification of Abraham.
It's all about faith in God and he was imputed righteousness and justified.
Paul then concludes this with our faith in Jesus.
It's all about faith in God.
QUOTE
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:

20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.



This post has been edited by prophetjul: Mar 6 2023, 02:56 PM
desmond2020
post Mar 6 2023, 03:01 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 6 2023, 02:04 PM)
The 11 apostles all at one point called Jesus as Rabbi but they also called Jesus as Lord, Messiah, Son of God, etc. Hence they recognize who Jesus is.

Judas as we see in the bible, usually call and recognize Jesus as Rabbi and nothing else. <===This.

This show he never see Jesus as Son of God or Messiah. This is the indication he was never saved.

It's not for me to say who can lose their salvation. Only God knows who is save or not.

All I know from Bible God wants his people to be fully assured that they are saved by his Son. The key is to look away from what they do...(not about doing) but to look to Jesus Christ to save.

The devil has successfully convince some to look away from Christ and to look at themselves to be saved.

This is why I endeavour so hard to fight this.
*
All of that is conditional on faith

And keeping of faith. And endure till the end

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Mar 6 2023, 03:01 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 6 2023, 03:01 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 6 2023, 02:55 PM)
Salvation has always been by faith in God, be it in the OT or NT.
Look at Romans 4 again about the justification of Abraham.
It's all about faith in God and he was imputed righteousness and justified.
Paul then concludes this with our faith in Jesus.
It's all about faith in God.
*
I never deny it's by faith.

But look at

Hebrews 11:13-16 & 39 - 40.

They didn't receive what was promised until Christ came.

The wordings "didn't receive" is there stated very clearly.
Roman Catholic
post Mar 6 2023, 03:02 PM

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What happens when we reach the Kingdom of Heaven and we find Judas there ? Rejoice or no rejoice ?
TSunknown warrior
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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Mar 6 2023, 03:02 PM)
What happens when we reach the Kingdom of Heaven and we find Judas there ? Rejoice or no rejoice ?
*
100% sure, he is not there.


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post Mar 6 2023, 03:03 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Mar 6 2023, 03:01 PM)
All of that is conditional on faith

And keeping of faith. And endure till the end
*
Yes, this I agree.
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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 6 2023, 03:02 PM)
100% sure, he is not there.
*
If Judas didnt kiss our Lord Jesus at the garden to point him out to the guards, who would ?
prophetjul
post Mar 6 2023, 03:07 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 6 2023, 03:01 PM)
I never deny it's by faith.

But look at

Hebrews 11:13-16 & 39 - 40.

They didn't receive what was promised until Christ came.

The wordings "didn't receive" is there stated very clearly.
*
Is that not faith? biggrin.gif You just described faith.

QUOTE
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

You don't need to receive to have faith. Unless you are word faith proponent. biggrin.gif

QUOTE
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.



TSunknown warrior
post Mar 6 2023, 03:08 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Mar 6 2023, 03:06 PM)
If Judas didnt kiss our Lord Jesus at the garden to point him out to the guards, who would ?
*
Dunno but quite sure, Satan regretted doing that.
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post Mar 6 2023, 03:15 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 6 2023, 03:07 PM)
Is that not faith?  biggrin.gif  You just described faith.
You don't need to receive to have faith. Unless you are word faith proponent.  biggrin.gif
*
What I'm talking about is on timeline. They didn't receive it immediately. Not until Christ came. That is stated in hebrews 11.


TSunknown warrior
post Mar 6 2023, 03:17 PM

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Hebrews 11

13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth.
14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own.
15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return.
16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised,
40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

See verse 13 & 39.

Verse 40 tell us when they received it.


prophetjul
post Mar 6 2023, 03:18 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 6 2023, 03:15 PM)
What I'm talking about is on timeline. They didn't receive it immediately. Not until Christ came. That is stated in hebrews 11.
*
I was referring to salvation in OT and NT. Are you saying that the OT saints did not receive this?
desmond2020
post Mar 6 2023, 03:20 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 6 2023, 03:18 PM)
I was referring to salvation in OT and NT. Are you saying that the OT saints did not receive this?
*
i think he refer to 'promised' as salvation, instead of a savior as people normally believe
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post Mar 6 2023, 03:21 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 6 2023, 03:18 PM)
I was referring to salvation in OT and NT. Are you saying that the OT saints did not receive this?
*
I didn't say they didn't receive Salvation. They did but they didn't receive it immediately (For OT Saints). They too had to wait for Christ.

See the post on Hebrews 11 I posted.
prophetjul
post Mar 6 2023, 03:24 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Mar 6 2023, 03:20 PM)
i think he refer to 'promised' as salvation, instead of a savior as people normally believe
*
Once anyone is imputed righteousness, they are justified unto salvation. So we see the OT are already imputed righteousness in their faith in God.
The saviour is God anyway.
So as some like to point out, the OT look forward to the saviour. The NT looks back to the saviour.
But both are justified by faith in God.
prophetjul
post Mar 6 2023, 03:26 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 6 2023, 03:21 PM)
I didn't say they didn't receive Salvation. They did but they didn't receive it immediately (For OT Saints). They too had to wait for Christ.

See the post on Hebrews 11 I posted.
*
You are not clear.
You mean that the OT did not receive salvation in their times.
Romans 4 contradicts your statement.
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post Mar 6 2023, 03:27 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 6 2023, 03:26 PM)
You are not clear.
You mean that the OT did not receive salvation in their times.
Romans 4 contradicts your statement.
*
It's not my statement

But Hebrews 11:13-16 & 39 - 40


Hebrews 11

13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth.
14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own.
15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return.
16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised,
40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

See verse 13 & 39.

Verse 40 tell us when they received it.
prophetjul
post Mar 6 2023, 03:31 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 6 2023, 03:27 PM)
It's not my statement

But Hebrews 11:13-16 & 39 - 40
Hebrews 11

13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth.
14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own.
15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return.
16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised,
40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

See verse 13 & 39.

Verse 40 tell us when they received it.
*
This points to the heavenly country, not salvation.

Hebrews 11 7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

When one becomes heirs of righteousness, they have received salvation.
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post Mar 7 2023, 09:12 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 6 2023, 03:31 PM)
This points to the heavenly country, not salvation.

Hebrews 11 7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

When one becomes heirs of righteousness, they have received salvation.
*
I'll admit it's a bit of a mystery for me when it comes to the Old Testament saint of being saved.

I can agree the Old Testament saints were saved in the same way as the New Testament Saints which is by Faith in God and by God's grace alone, nothing to do with works of the Law. Nobody is denying that.

However I'm talking about timeline. Is it right to say the OT saints didn't receive Salvation until Christ finished his work? Or did they immediately even before Christ finished his work?

The BIble is very clear. Without the Shedding of Blood, There is No Forgiveness of Sins, pointing specifically to Christ's divine blood.

If you say that they did even before Christ finished his work, then how were their sins removed? <===This???? As we all know Christ has not died yet.

Being forgiven is one thing but to remove sins is another matter.

Because the confusion lies very easily by relating when one is saved you are eligible to enter heaven.

And Hebrews 11:13-16 & 39 - 40 clearly tells us they didn't received the promised of heaven until Christ came.

We cannot deny the truth of scripture in Hebrews 11:39.

BTW the word country is not really there in the Greek, it's there to help signify a place.

What is your opinion?

============================


If its' TLDR, just focus on the 2 points in bold.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 7 2023, 09:19 AM
desmond2020
post Mar 7 2023, 10:20 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 7 2023, 09:12 AM)
I'll admit it's a bit of a mystery for me when it comes to the Old Testament saint of being saved.

I can agree the Old Testament saints were saved in the same way as the New Testament Saints which is by Faith in God and by God's grace alone, nothing to do with works of the Law. Nobody is denying that.

However I'm talking about timeline. Is it right to say the OT saints didn't receive Salvation until Christ finished his work? Or did they immediately even before Christ finished his work?

The BIble is very clear. Without the Shedding of Blood, There is No Forgiveness of Sins, pointing specifically to Christ's divine blood.

If you say that they did even before Christ finished his work, then how were their sins removed? <===This???? As we all know Christ has not died yet.

Being forgiven is one thing but to remove sins is another matter.

Because the confusion lies very easily by relating when one is saved you are eligible to enter heaven.

And Hebrews 11:13-16 & 39 - 40 clearly tells us they didn't received the promised of heaven until Christ came.

We cannot deny the truth of scripture in Hebrews 11:39.

BTW the word country is not really there in the Greek, it's there to help signify a place.

What is your opinion?

============================
If its' TLDR, just focus on the 2 points in bold.
*
you know, atonement. each time they sin, they make sacrifice. then after new covenant is in force with crucifixion of jesus, then no more atonement is needed

How does God forgive us of our sins?

1. God’s forgiveness is cleansing in nature.

“…on this day atonement will be made for you, to cleanse you. Then, before the Lord, you will be clean from all your sins.” - Leviticus 16:30

2. God’s forgiveness pardons sinners.

“In accordance with your great love, forgive the sin of these people, just as you have pardoned them from the time they left Egypt until now." The LORD replied, "I have forgiven them, as you asked. Nevertheless, as surely as I live and as surely as the glory of the LORD fills the whole earth.” - Numbers 14:19-21

3. God hides our sins and does not hold them against us.

Blessed is the one whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord does not count against them and in whose spirit is no deceit. - Psalm 32:1-2

4. God forgiveness is purifying at its core.

“Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin…Cleanse me with hyssop, and I will be clean; wash me, and I will be whiter than snow.” - Psalm 51: 2; 7

5. God forgiveness is infinite in nature.

“The Lord is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love. He will not always accuse, nor will he harbor his anger forever, he does not treat us as our sins deserve or repay us according to our iniquities. For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love for those who fear him; as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.” - Psalm 103:8-12

6. God’s forgiveness is redemptive in character.

“Israel, put your hope in the Lord, for with the Lord is unfailing love and with him is full redemption. He himself will redeem Israel from all their sins.” - Psalm 130:7-8

7. God’s forgiveness is transformational.

"Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. - Isaiah 1:18

8. God moves our sins out of His sight.

“Surely it was for my benefit that I suffered such anguish. In your love you kept me from the pit of destruction; you have put all my sins behind your back.” - Isaiah 38:17

9. God chooses not to remember our sins anymore.

"I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more.” - Isaiah 43:25

10. God dissipates our sins forever.

“I have swept away your offenses like a cloud, your sins like the morning mist. Return to me, for I have redeemed you.” - Isaiah 44:22

Special note: “Nothing can more strikingly represent sin in its nature and consequences, than a dense, dark, frowning cloud that comes over the heavens, and shuts out the sun, and fills the air with gloom; and nothing can more beautifully represent the nature and effect of pardon than the idea of removing such a cloud, and leaving the sky pure, the air calm and serene, and the sun pouring down his beams of warmth and light on the earth. So the soul of the sinner is enveloped and overshadowed with a dense cloud, but pardon dissipates that cloud, and it is calm and joyful, and serene.” –Albert Barnes

11. God’s forgiveness is ultimately substitutionary.

“We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way, and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.” - Isaiah 53:6

12. God’s forgiveness gives us a right standing before with HIm.

“After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge, my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.” - Isaiah 53:11

13. God’s forgiveness does not dredge up our sins anymore.

“For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.” - Jeremiah 31:34

14. God’s forgiveness washes away all of our sins.

“I will cleanse them from all the sin they have committed against me and will forgive all their sins of rebellion against me.” - Jeremiah 33:8

15. God’s cleansing forgiveness is restorative.

“This is what the Sovereign Lord says: On the day I cleanse you from all your sins, I will resettle your towns, and the ruins will be rebuilt.” ­- Ezekiel 36:33

16. God’s forgiveness is merciful in essence.

“The Lord our God is merciful and forgiving, even though we have rebelled against him.” -Daniel 9:9

17. God’s forgiveness is profoundly freeing and utterly complete.

“Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy. You will again have compassion on us; you will tread our sins underfoot and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea. - Micah 7:18-19

18. God’s forgiveness removes our sins to replace them with His blessings.

“See, I have taken away your sin, and I will put fine garments on you.” - Zechariah 3:4

https://garyrohrmayer.typepad.com/yourjourn...rgives-sin.html


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post Mar 7 2023, 10:37 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Mar 7 2023, 10:20 AM)
you know, atonement. each time they sin, they make sacrifice. then after new covenant is in force with crucifixion of jesus, then no more atonement is needed

How does God forgive us of our sins?

1. God’s forgiveness is cleansing in nature.

“…on this day atonement will be made for you, to cleanse you. Then, before the Lord, you will be clean from all your sins.” - Leviticus 16:30

2. God’s forgiveness pardons sinners.

“In accordance with your great love, forgive the sin of these people, just as you have pardoned them from the time they left Egypt until now." The LORD replied, "I have forgiven them, as you asked. Nevertheless, as surely as I live and as surely as the glory of the LORD fills the whole earth.” - Numbers 14:19-21

3. God hides our sins and does not hold them against us.

Blessed is the one whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord does not count against them and in whose spirit is no deceit. - Psalm 32:1-2

4. God forgiveness is purifying at its core.

“Wash away all my iniquity and cleanse me from my sin…Cleanse me with hyssop, and I will be clean; wash me, and I will be whiter than snow.” - Psalm 51: 2; 7

5. God forgiveness is infinite in nature.

“The Lord is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love. He will not always accuse, nor will he harbor his anger forever, he does not treat us as our sins deserve or repay us according to our iniquities. For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love for those who fear him; as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.” - Psalm 103:8-12

6. God’s forgiveness is redemptive in character.

“Israel, put your hope in the Lord, for with the Lord is unfailing love and with him is full redemption. He himself will redeem Israel from all their sins.” - Psalm 130:7-8  

7. God’s forgiveness is transformational.

"Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. - Isaiah 1:18

8.  God moves our sins out of His sight.

“Surely it was for my benefit that I suffered such anguish. In your love you kept me from the pit of destruction; you have put all my sins behind your back.” - Isaiah 38:17

9. God chooses not to remember our sins anymore.

"I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more.”  - Isaiah 43:25

10. God dissipates our sins forever.

“I have swept away your offenses like a cloud, your sins like the morning mist. Return to me, for I have redeemed you.”  - Isaiah 44:22

Special note: “Nothing can more strikingly represent sin in its nature and consequences, than a dense, dark, frowning cloud that comes over the heavens, and shuts out the sun, and fills the air with gloom; and nothing can more beautifully represent the nature and effect of pardon than the idea of removing such a cloud, and leaving the sky pure, the air calm and serene, and the sun pouring down his beams of warmth and light on the earth. So the soul of the sinner is enveloped and overshadowed with a dense cloud, but pardon dissipates that cloud, and it is calm and joyful, and serene.” –Albert Barnes

11. God’s forgiveness is ultimately substitutionary.

“We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way, and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.” - Isaiah 53:6

12. God’s forgiveness gives us a right standing before with HIm.

“After he has suffered, he will see the light of life and be satisfied; by his knowledge, my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.” - Isaiah 53:11

13. God’s forgiveness does not dredge up our sins anymore.

“For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”   - Jeremiah 31:34

14. God’s forgiveness washes away all of our sins.

“I will cleanse them from all the sin they have committed against me and will forgive all their sins of rebellion against me.” - Jeremiah 33:8

15. God’s cleansing forgiveness is restorative.

“This is what the Sovereign Lord says: On the day I cleanse you from all your sins, I will resettle your towns, and the ruins will be rebuilt.” ­- Ezekiel 36:33

16. God’s forgiveness is merciful in essence.

“The Lord our God is merciful and forgiving, even though we have rebelled against him.” -Daniel 9:9

17. God’s forgiveness is profoundly freeing and utterly complete.

“Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy. You will again have compassion on us; you will tread our sins underfoot and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea. - Micah 7:18-19

18. God’s forgiveness removes our sins to replace them with His blessings.

“See, I have taken away your sin, and I will put fine garments on you.” - Zechariah 3:4

https://garyrohrmayer.typepad.com/yourjourn...rgives-sin.html
*
Those verses explain the nature of God. There must be a righteous foundation of why God can forgive. If God would simply sweep sins under the carpet just like that, there is no justice. Even the link you provide say at the end.

" By canceling our sin and paying for it with the death of his own Son" <==there is the righteous foundation of why and it points back to my 2 questions in bold still unanswered.


In simple term, still doesn't answer my questions.

==============

PS. Animal Sacrifice are atonement = temporary cover, but doesn't remove sins. My question ask on removal of sin.




This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 7 2023, 10:41 AM
desmond2020
post Mar 7 2023, 10:53 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 7 2023, 10:37 AM)
Those verses explain the nature of God. There must be a righteous foundation of why God can forgive. If God would simply sweep sins under the carpet just like that, there is no justice. Even the link you provide say at the end.

" By canceling our sin and paying for it with the death of his own Son" <==there is the righteous foundation of why and it points back to my 2 questions in bold still unanswered.
In simple term, still doesn't answer my questions.

==============

PS. Animal Sacrifice are atonement = temporary cover, but doesn't remove sins. My question ask on removal of sin.
*
let me tell you my understanding, OT saints make atonement for their sins, which is temporary cover (as long as it is done out of faith, because without faith, no atonement can please god) and they are in followship with god which mean their sins is forgiven. If they die in faith then they will go to heaven. but not yet since there is sin of adam that yet to be covered. Abraham was promised a savior for that effect, and he see jesus and his day and are happy. so jesus atonement fulfil all the requirement.
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post Mar 7 2023, 10:58 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Mar 7 2023, 10:53 AM)
let me tell you my understanding, OT saints make atonement for their sins, which is temporary cover (as long as it is done out of faith, because without faith, no atonement can please god) and they are in followship with god which mean their sins is forgiven. If they die in faith then they will go to heaven. but not yet since there is sin of adam that yet to be covered. Abraham was promised a savior for that effect, and he see jesus and his day and are happy. so jesus atonement fulfil all the requirement.
*
Which points back to another question I also ask.

Is it right to say the OT saints didn't receive Salvation until Christ finished his work?


desmond2020
post Mar 7 2023, 11:00 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 7 2023, 10:58 AM)
Which points back to another question I also ask.

Is it right to say the OT saints didn't receive Salvation until Christ finished his work?
*
nope, with faith, their salvation is assured.
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post Mar 7 2023, 11:07 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Mar 7 2023, 11:00 AM)
nope, with faith, their salvation is assured.
*
So in other words even without Christ's Blood they can be saved?

hmm.gif

Does it mean their sins were removed just like that?
desmond2020
post Mar 7 2023, 11:10 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 7 2023, 11:07 AM)
So in other words even without Christ's Blood they can be saved?

hmm.gif

Does it mean their sins were removed just like that?
*
oh ya, their faith, which include believing a savior to be sent already imputed as their righteousness. which is definition of faith
prophetjul
post Mar 7 2023, 07:23 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 7 2023, 09:12 AM)
I'll admit it's a bit of a mystery for me when it comes to the Old Testament saint of being saved.

I can agree the Old Testament saints were saved in the same way as the New Testament Saints which is by Faith in God and by God's grace alone, nothing to do with works of the Law. Nobody is denying that.

However I'm talking about timeline. Is it right to say the OT saints didn't receive Salvation until Christ finished his work? Or did they immediately even before Christ finished his work?

The BIble is very clear. Without the Shedding of Blood, There is No Forgiveness of Sins, pointing specifically to Christ's divine blood.

If you say that they did even before Christ finished his work, then how were their sins removed? <===This???? As we all know Christ has not died yet.

Being forgiven is one thing but to remove sins is another matter.

Because the confusion lies very easily by relating when one is saved you are eligible to enter heaven.

And Hebrews 11:13-16 & 39 - 40 clearly tells us they didn't received the promised of heaven until Christ came.

We cannot deny the truth of scripture in Hebrews 11:39.

BTW the word country is not really there in the Greek, it's there to help signify a place.

What is your opinion?

============================
If its' TLDR, just focus on the 2 points in bold.
*
As i have pointed out: The OT points to the future Messiah and the NT points back to the Messiah.
Whether the OT or NT saints, we live by faith in Messiah.
The sacrificial lamb in the OT points to the sacrifice for sins. The Day of Atonement points to the sacrifice. Whenever the high priest carries out the yearly lamb sacrifice, the people accept their forgiveness from God BY FAITH. That was the shedding of blood. And they do it every year.
Likewise, Jesus became the fulfilment of that sacrifice. NT saints have not seen Jesus as the Lamb. Therefore, we still live in faith of the Messiah called Jesus, whose blood was shed for us all.
The only difference now is there is no longer requirement of the yearly blood of lambs. Jesus' sacrifice is ultimate sacrifice. Once and for all. Hebrews 10

So, the common denominator is FAITH IN GOD.
Scriptures tell us that faith in God brings imputed righteousness and therefore justification. Both for OT and NT saints.

Don't confuse heaven and imputed righteousness by faith unto salvation.

None of the saints are in heaven yet.
yeeck
post Mar 8 2023, 02:47 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 7 2023, 07:23 PM)
None of the saints are in heaven yet.
*
This is interesting. Is that the general Protestant understanding? Or is it peculiar to some particular denominations only?
prophetjul
post Mar 8 2023, 02:52 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Mar 8 2023, 02:47 PM)
This is interesting. Is that the general Protestant understanding? Or is it peculiar to some particular denominations only?
*
What is your understanding?
Presumably Roman theology is purgatory.
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post Mar 8 2023, 03:39 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 7 2023, 07:23 PM)
None of the saints are in heaven yet.
*
Moses and Elijah disagreed wit u since they met Jesus in the mount of transfiguration

unless u said God pluck them out from hell beforehand..

and wat about Lazarus who resides in Abrahams bosom according to Jesus?

that cannot be in hell isit?
prophetjul
post Mar 8 2023, 04:08 PM

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QUOTE(GaunterO'Dimm @ Mar 8 2023, 03:39 PM)
Moses and Elijah disagreed wit u since they met Jesus in the mount of transfiguration

unless u said God pluck them out from hell beforehand..

and wat about Lazarus who resides in Abrahams bosom according to Jesus?

that cannot be in hell isit?
*
Question is: Is Abraham's bosom or Sheol heaven?
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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 8 2023, 04:08 PM)
Question is: Is Abraham's bosom or Sheol heaven?
*
okay then so when Jesus said to the crucified criminal today you will be with me in paradise

can't be Jesus in sheol too?

and Moses and Elijah still waiting for your answer brows.gif
prophetjul
post Mar 8 2023, 05:08 PM

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QUOTE(GaunterO'Dimm @ Mar 8 2023, 04:21 PM)
okay then so when Jesus said to the crucified criminal today you will be with me in paradise

can't be Jesus in sheol too?

and Moses and Elijah still waiting for your answer  brows.gif
*
Abraham's bosom, Sheol, Hades or paradise are the same.
These are seen as holding places. I believe there are different places in Paradise for the righteous and unrighteous.
Indeed, Jesus went to Sheol for 3 days and 3 nights.

However, heaven is a different place.
When we die, we have no bodies yet.
However, we know we will inherit the incorruptible bodies when Jesus comes again.
Before that, our spirits will reside in paradise.
When we shall revive our incorruptible bodies, we will live forever in heaven to come.

As foe Moses and Elijah during the transfiguration, it was a vision.

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Mar 8 2023, 05:10 PM
desmond2020
post Mar 8 2023, 08:22 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 8 2023, 05:08 PM)
Abraham's bosom, Sheol, Hades or paradise are the same.
These are seen as holding places. I believe there are different places in Paradise for the righteous and unrighteous.
Indeed, Jesus went to Sheol for 3 days and 3 nights.

However, heaven is a different place.
When we die, we have no bodies yet.
However, we know we will inherit the incorruptible bodies when Jesus comes again.
Before that, our spirits will reside in paradise.
When we shall revive our incorruptible bodies, we will live forever in heaven to come.

As foe Moses and Elijah during the transfiguration, it was a vision.
*
some said jesus went to hell for three days
prophetjul
post Mar 8 2023, 09:11 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Mar 8 2023, 08:22 PM)
some said jesus went to hell for three days
*
Hades is not hell.
Hell is Ghehenna.
Hades is where Jesus went.

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post Mar 9 2023, 10:08 AM

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How does God forgives?

Leviticus 17:11 (NIV) - For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.
Hebrews 9:22 (NIV) - In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

What's up fellow believers. I guess what I've hope for this thread seems to be coming into place. One is fellowship, second we discuss, not devour each other. Anyway it should be so for christians. We need kindness more so especially in the last days. Those who keep on devouring others, there is a wrong spirit attached. In all that has happened, I believe God is quite concern on how we treat one another. Hence the call to love. If we do not love, we have missed it completely. Doesn't matter how knowledgeable you are, according to the bible we are just clanging noises but empty inside.

I think it's important to know how God forgives.

God is love, merciful and gracious. It is in his nature to forgive. However God is also a God of justice. Justice from biblical pov, means there must be a righteous foundation in God's dealing to what is right or fair.

With regards to sin, God doesn't sweep every sin under the carpet because boys will be boys or girls will be girls. For Him to do that would make God unjust.

And we can know this in the verses of today's devotion.

When Adam and Eve sin against God, you'll note that upon their realization they were naked, God clothed them with garment of skin. This actually mean some animals have died, their blood was shed. I believe this was the very 1st atonement.

Without shedding of blood, there can be no forgiveness. God doesn't just forgive.... just like that.

With that being said. In the Old Testament, the people of God was saved because of their faith in God and because of God's grace. Yet they could not enter in Heaven until Christ has finished His work on the cross.

How come? Because the animal sacrifices could not remove their sins.

This is why Hebrews 11:13-16 & 39 tells us they didn't receive what was promised. Only the blood of Christ could remove sin. So where were they when they died? We can only assume they were somewhere other than heaven. I understand there was the record of Lazarus and poor beggar going to Abraham's side and at the transfiguration mount, Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus.

Yet we can consider this truth to handle the seemingly contradiction; God is outside of time.

Because God is outside of time, it would not be presumptuous to say heaven is also outside of time. Hence the possibility. Anyway it is not important.

What is important is the blood of Jesus Christ. It is everything for our victory and the demise of our spiritual enemy. Only the blood of Jesus is powerful to defeat every demon, whatever devils. They could not stand against it.

It is so important that you have God forgives you based on righteous foundation (Blood of Christ).

It is also very important that you forgive others (because of Blood of Christ) and be humble. Otherwise we give open door for principalities, powers of darkness to make inroads into our lives.

God Bless.






yeeck
post Mar 9 2023, 12:01 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 8 2023, 02:52 PM)
What is your understanding?
Presumably Roman theology is purgatory.
*
For the OT saints, the general theological speculation is that they were in limbus patrum (limbo of the Fathers) awaiting Christ to open Heaven for them.

Purgatory is another topic altogether.
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 9 2023, 12:20 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Mar 9 2023, 12:01 PM)
For the OT saints, the general theological speculation is that they were in limbus patrum (limbo of the Fathers) awaiting Christ to open Heaven for them.

Purgatory is another topic altogether.
*
From purgatory changed to limbo, but same thing.

Pope Benedict XVI asked to change the name, right?
prophetjul
post Mar 9 2023, 01:29 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Mar 9 2023, 12:01 PM)
For the OT saints, the general theological speculation is that they were in limbus patrum (limbo of the Fathers) awaiting Christ to open Heaven for them.

Purgatory is another topic altogether.
*
Limbo is equivalent to soul sleep?
yeeck
post Mar 9 2023, 03:07 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 9 2023, 12:20 PM)
From purgatory changed to limbo, but same thing.

Pope Benedict XVI asked to change the name, right?
*
Not the same thing at all.

Limbo of the Fathers ceased to exist when Christ descended into Hell (not the Hell of the damned) after His crucifixion to lead the OT saints out.

Purgatory on the other hand is the place of expiatory purification for souls that died in the state of grace but still have imperfections before they can enter heaven to see God (the Beatific Vision)

BTW, the animal sacrifices of the OT are not sufficient for salvation. Only God Himself can offer the perfect sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins, because sin is an infinite outrage towards the infinite God, and only God can repair such an outrage.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Mar 9 2023, 03:23 PM
yeeck
post Mar 9 2023, 03:17 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 9 2023, 01:29 PM)
Limbo is equivalent to soul sleep?
*
I looked up what soul sleep means but it indicates Christian mortalism. For us, the soul is immortal. “Soul sleep” is a belief that after a person dies, his/her soul “sleeps” until the resurrection and final judgment.

Catholics do not believe in "soul sleep". At death, the Particular Judgement occurs (called Particular because it is for that particular soul) where one's soul is already judged. This is different from the General Judgement at the end of the world where everyone who have ever lived in the past or are still living will be resurrected body and soul combined and face judgement at the Second Coming. At the General Judgement, God's perfect justice and mercy will be seen by everyone and everyone will understand why God's judgement is just. At the end of time, those who are damned will be punished both body and soul while the just will similarly enjoy beatitude in both body and soul.

This post has been edited by yeeck: Mar 9 2023, 03:19 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 12 2023, 12:05 PM

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Eternally Secured by God

John 10:28 - 30 (NIV) - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”

The word of God has been recorded in such a way, in many verses, many books, the emphasis has always been that whosoever believe in Jesus Christ shall have eternal life.

I'm very glad that God has made Salvation easy. You don't have to pay exorbitant amount of money, climb the highest mountain, sacrifice any life, hurt your own body painfully or do anything to get saved.

You just to have believe (agree and submit) what God offers and what He says.

That Jesus Christ, the Son of God sent by God the Father to be Son of Man as representative for all Man. He died for your sins but rose (resurrected) again to save you.

That you have sinned against God, your sins brought you eternal death. And you need Jesus Christ to save you from your sins. Receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.

Believe that Christ has removed your sins as far is the east is from the west. Believe that His royal blood has cleansed you from your sins, removed completely, perfectly!

With regards to your sinful carnal nature, that you have absolutely no strength to overcome it, you need to receive his Grace for power to repent and obey. Don't try to exert your own effort/natural strength to overcome it.

Rely on God completely. Rely by prayer and living by God's Holy Spirit. God will transform you without you even knowing it. This is how God works.

Your status has been wiped clean, You have been given the righteousness of God by your faith, therefore you are now Holy and acceptable to God. Your character still have flaws but don't worry, your status is still cleaned despite of that, remember this truth. You can come to God everyday, He promise, will never reject you!

Repentance will happen everyday with God, so don't worry. Just cooperate with the Holy Spirit, don't resist.

You have The Holy Spirit in you as seal (deposit guarantee), live everyday with Him in relationship, 2 ways communication not 1. Pray everyday, commune everyday. Read the Bible everyday if possible with you.

Despite of all of these above. Understand one more thing.

Your Salvation is secured by God Himself. Read John 10:28-30 the main verse of today's devotion.

Don't allow anyone to talk you out of this. God the Father is greater than all and He will not allow anyone to snatch you out of his hands. Neither will Christ allow it!

I am so glad God not only offers Salvation to his people but God also secures it and God wants you to know with strong certainty you are saved!

God Bless.


This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 12 2023, 12:12 PM
GaunterO'Dimm P
post Mar 13 2023, 10:21 AM

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let us all christian become humble

not one for seeking men's honor bcoz u feeling u have superior knowldege or wisdom

salvation doesn't come by way of knowledge or wisdom

but by faith

for God says in Isaiah 66:2

"But this is the one to whom I will look:
he who is humble and contrite in spirit
and trembles at my word"
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 13 2023, 11:29 AM

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Much More

Romans 5:17 (NIV) - For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Blessed day to you all.

Throughout the world, the devil has been opposing God's children for the longest time. If he could not stop christians from being saved, he will try to push christians into a corner and make them ineffective by living unvictorious life.

What do I mean?

A Christian who is a threat to devil's kingdom will damage his kingdom. So to counter this, the devil has to defang such powerless so as not to be a threat.

There is this erroneous idea, our only concern is eternal life and nothing else. You may protest, but isn't eternal life everything and the ultimate gift? It is for sure but as Christians we have missed on the "much more" aspect of Salvation.

We were never called to stop at eternal life. No. Jesus says those who believe in Him will do greater works than He did. Jesus did not only came to preach Salvation to the people around him. No, he cleanse lepers, open up deaf ears, heal the blind, unbound people who were bound by the devil, cast our demons, fed the multitude, etc.

You may protest that these are miraculous works. True but also consider the fact that Jesus commissioned all of us to go into the world to share the good news. In your sharing of good news, will you not face oppositions? Meet people bound by the devil? Opposed by devil bounded people? If you do not represent God to dispense God's power to set people free, how are they going to be free? There are so many things involved in the commision of God. It involves money, travelling, getting past country laws and regulations, authorities, etc. So many things and at times require prayer when you are opposed or limited.

There will be spiritual warfare. You will face opposition from powers of darkness and I mean literally.

With all that being said, I believe there is more than just Salvation. I believe, our inheritance will include being under God's protection, providence and care. And also we all have been gifted with power of the Holy Spirit and thus can pray for the sick to be healed, lay hands to cast out demons, etc.

If you're still stuck at trying to get to Salvation, I believe the devil got you limited.

Friends, Romans 5:17 tells us there is much more than just Salvation. The reigning of life here will include not just being victorious against sinful habits but against the work of the devil.

And in order for all these to work, you must be strongly established in Salvation. Which is why I endeavour painstakingly to share devotions to give you full assurance of your Salvation.

If you're not even sure if you are save, how are you going to move in the power of God? <==THIS.

I hope this short devotion gets you thinking.

God Bless.


TSunknown warrior
post Mar 14 2023, 09:17 AM

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QUOTE(GaunterO'Dimm @ Mar 13 2023, 10:21 AM)
let us all christian become humble

not one for seeking men's honor bcoz u feeling u have superior knowldege or wisdom

salvation doesn't come by way of knowledge or wisdom

but by faith

for God says in Isaiah 66:2

"But this is the one to whom I will look:
he who is humble and contrite in spirit
and trembles at my word"
*
Morning Bro,

you are completely right on this. thumbsup.gif
De_Luffy
post Mar 14 2023, 09:40 AM

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Good morning, so long since i was last in here? how's everyone and how is sophie? and you UW?
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 14 2023, 10:05 AM

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What is eternal life?

John 17:3 (NIV) - Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

I'll come straight to the point. Eternal life is knowing God and Jesus Christ. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

This knowing isn't head knowledge but real life relationship type of knowing. God knows you and you know God.

If you've heard the phrase Christianity isn't a religion but relationship with God, it is based on John 17:3.

All that I've post on "Eternally Secured by God" post#372 has to do with this knowing as well.

It's interesting to note, our Lord Jesus has left out the Holy Spirit from this equation? Do you know why?
Because The Holy Spirit never calls attention to Himself. He is here to reveal Christ and Christ reveal God the Father.

Anyway, back to relationship, do you know, you need set aside a time to spend time with God?

You need to get used to spending time with God and I can tell you, this takes effort. It's not easy at first but as you practise doing this frequently, it gets easier.

In fact after awhile, you will want to do this on daily basis for when you don't, you'll feel something missing in your life.

And I hope you come to that point where you feel something missing when you don't.

Friends, relationship with God involves everyday spending time with Him. And I can testify you will never regret, not once.

God promise he rewards those who seek him. And never discount this reward away, you need it for your daily life.

For me, I find that my day is much more in order and blessed whenever I spend time with God. On days that I didn't, at times the day can be chaotic if not seemingly very bad.

Point is, there is an obvious difference. Hope this devotion will bless you.

God Bless.







TSunknown warrior
post Mar 14 2023, 10:07 AM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Mar 14 2023, 09:40 AM)
Good morning, so long since i was last in here? how's everyone and how is sophie? and you UW?
*
Sophie no more in here, I guess just you and me.

Yup, very long indeed. hmm.gif

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 14 2023, 10:18 AM
GaunterO'Dimm P
post Mar 14 2023, 10:30 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 14 2023, 10:05 AM)
[Anyway, back to relationship, do you know, you need set aside a time to spend time with God?
You need to get used to spending time with God and I can tell you, this takes effort. It's not easy at first but as you practise doing this frequently, it gets easier.
i don't like what u say

because wat u say is true indeed

but i struggle to do that
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 14 2023, 10:43 AM

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QUOTE(GaunterO'Dimm @ Mar 14 2023, 10:30 AM)
i don't like what u say

because wat u say is true indeed

but i struggle to do that
*
Start from small. Couple of minutes. Don't look down on even 1 or 2 minutes. <==Consider it as important.

Once you get used to the few minutes then slowly expand your time to 5 minutes, then 10 mins, later 15 mins you get the idea.

If you don't know what to pray or say, just read the Bible in those quiet time with God. When you have the urge to pray, then pray.

My advice is this.

Before you begin, pray ask for the Holy Spirit to pray with you and through you. Ask the Holy Spirit to guide you in communion with God the Father.

Then fire away, read the Bible while your mind is on God all the time. If feel like praying, let it out. thumbsup.gif



Note: Spending time with God should only involve you and God so find a place, can be in car, room, wherever possible.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 14 2023, 10:45 AM
De_Luffy
post Mar 14 2023, 10:53 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 14 2023, 10:07 AM)
Sophie no more in here, I guess just you and me.

Yup, very long indeed.  hmm.gif
*
Man i miss the old days, just come in to look for something in lowyat.net but couldn't find what i'm looking for though
gashout
post Mar 14 2023, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 14 2023, 10:07 AM)
Sophie no more in here, I guess just you and me.

Yup, very long indeed.  hmm.gif
*
im around. tag me if you need my input from time to time...

appreciate your good work.
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 14 2023, 11:14 AM

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QUOTE(gashout @ Mar 14 2023, 11:06 AM)
im around. tag me if you need my input from time to time...

appreciate your good work.
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Yes! gashout, you are needed, feel free to contribute. notworthy.gif
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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 14 2023, 10:43 AM)
Start from small. Couple of minutes. Don't look down on even 1 or 2 minutes. <==Consider it as important.

Once you get used to the few minutes then slowly expand your time to 5 minutes, then 10 mins, later 15 mins you get the idea.

If you don't know what to pray or say, just read the Bible in those quiet time with God. When you have the urge to pray, then pray.

My advice is this.

Before you begin, pray ask for the Holy Spirit to pray with you and through you. Ask the Holy Spirit to guide you in communion with God the Father.

Then fire away, read the Bible while your mind is on God all the time. If feel like praying, let it out.  thumbsup.gif
Note: Spending time with God should only involve you and God so find a place, can be in car, room, wherever possible.
*
tough man

i have zero desire like i have zero desire to take a cold bath at night

but i try yes keep on trying
GaunterO'Dimm P
post Mar 14 2023, 01:51 PM

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what is our spirit exactly?

spirit is different from soul

i believe soul is our conscience, character, emotions, intellect

Jesus said to worship God in spirit not in soul.

an unbleiver has a dead spirit
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 14 2023, 02:18 PM

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QUOTE(GaunterO'Dimm @ Mar 14 2023, 01:51 PM)
what is our spirit exactly?

spirit is different from soul

i believe soul is our conscience, character, emotions, intellect

Jesus said to worship God in spirit not in soul.

an unbleiver has a dead spirit
*
Spirit is the non-physical part of the person. It's you without your body basically.

Soul are your emotions, etc. correct.

Yes because God is spirit therefore we commune, worship God also from our spirit.

When we pray, that is also from our spirit, never from our body.

Our body is just a temporal housing. To house our spirit.

There is this question why we can't see God with our natural eye? Answer is because God is spirit.

This is beyond the limit of time and space. Only spirit can see spirit.

This is why when we pass away, we immediately can see in the spiritual realm and thus can also see God.

Atheist can never understand this and yet ignorantly insist, we have to prove God with evidence.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 14 2023, 02:43 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 16 2023, 12:30 PM

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God is able to save completely!

Hebrews 7:24 - 25 (NIV) - but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Today devotion is to let you know that you have can faith God himself will save you completely. The word completely in the Greek "pantelés" means; complete, entire, perfect, through all time.

God's saving work in your life is complete, leaving zero trace of doubt!

This devotion is to address in case some of us may wonder, how will I be like at the end of my journey? Will I be complete in being saved? Answer is yes.

How come? Well according Hebrews 7, there is a comparison of the old covenant high priest. The high priest function is to represent people to God. Meaning they are one who represents, standing on behalf of the sinner to God. And in old covenant they need to atone for their own sin and the sin of the people by animal sacrifice in order for God to forgive.

Only the High Priest is allowed to enter the Holy of Holies, which no one else could because it was where the presence of God is. Before he could enter, he had to atone for his own sins. A rope with a bell is tied to the high priest, so that if he did not atone properly and dropped dead from being unclean in the presence of God, his body could be removed.

In addition to that, human priest are also subjected to death of old age or circumstance. Whichever it is, Bible says death prevented them from continuing in office, IE continuing to represent to atone. But doesn't it continue to the next appointed high priest? Well the process as you can see are not that simple. They had to atone properly, any mistakes they are done for. So in this sense there is a weakness.

Well compare to Jesus Christ on basis of the power of an indestructible life, one who never dies, by his once sacrifice, made perfect has become a permanent High Priest! I don't know if you can even begun to fathom what that mean?

Bible is very clear here.

Jesus Christ has a permanent priesthood not in order of Levi but Melchizedek! A divine order not of human origin.
And God swore an oath. God doesn't have to swear. What He say is enough! His word alone brings forth into existence anything God wants but yet God Swore! So that you can be assured! If God swore, then it is Iron-clad unbreakable guarantee! Can you even understand this? I get so awed by this revelation!

God swore, Jesus is the guarantor of a better covenant. Because Jesus cannot die, therefore your Salvation is secure and complete!

Jesus Christ isn't like the Old Covenant High Priest. If Christ were to enter the Holy of Holies, with certainty He would not die because He is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. The Bible has recorded with certainty, God the Father has accepted this divine mediator.

This is why the Bible endeavours to tell us to keep our eyes on Jesus Christ as the reason for our Salvation, never ourselves.

Believers of Christ, because God swore, Jesus will always be THE High Priest and because Jesus can never die again, your Salvation is secure if not complete!

I know the phrase has been repeated few times but it is to your benefit this revelation sinks into your spirit to quash the powers of hell.

God Bless.




TSunknown warrior
post Mar 21 2023, 10:45 AM

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This is the New Covenant

Hebrews 8: 7-13 (NIV) -

7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said:

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.

9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.

10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.

12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”

13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

The power and promises of the New Covenant that God cuts with his people; all hangs on verse 12.

You must accept that God has forgiven you and will not remember your sins anymore. As Christians, we need to live with the mindset (repented) that everyday you live and breath without any sins imputed to you.

Yes we are not perfect along the way but the work of sin removal is from Jesus, not you. Word of God says Christ has remove it once and for all, that it what it means. In your journey, the status of you being cleaned is held by God Himself. Your old self no longer live, your old self identity has died. You now lived, Christ representing you. Always keep this in mind.

In the past there was the teaching that we need to be conscious of our sins daily. That being sin-conscious was suppose to be something we bear everyday. Friend that is an error!
This is a fight the devil will never let you go easily. The devil wants you to be sin-conscious so that you remain defeated.

The word of God tells otherwise. Jesus came to set you free from that.
If anyone is in Christ He/She is a new creation, the old has gone, the new has come. Until you hold this truth 24/7, All the "I will of God" does not come into your life.

Do you know how powerful the clause in verse 10 is? The Phrase " I will be their God and they will be my people" basically means the devil will have a hard time in destroying you. The Devil cannot if God is not willing! You may encounter set-backs but remember God got your back regardless! This clause also means when you are in need, God will provide. The Holy Spirit works repentance in you 24/7, in this same clause by guiding you in the Word.

Take note, you need to let go of the Old Covenant, because

1. There is fault in the old covenant, fault in the people as well.
2. Old Covenant "has" been made obsolete for God's people.

Old Covenant is about you performing before God and presupposes in your strength. The Old Covenant was meant to knock you down, forcing you to admit you cannot come to God via your performances (ie your efforts). That design remains true even until after conversion.

Obedience to God is very important but the devil also know he can use that to make it into works-based Salvation. This is where we need to be very careful. We obey God because rightfully so God deserve obedience. Never obey God to make it as an insurance-indicator for Salvation. IE that you know you are saved because you obeyed that is very dangerous ground. God would not have it. Why? Because God only accepts the work of Jesus Christ for removal of sins and imputation of righteousness to whoever believes.

Dear Friend;

When God says "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.” it is a very powerful statement. It's a matter of life and death for the believer. Yes it is that severe!

There is nothing for you to do to deserve this. Just receive it in Jesus's Name.

God Bless.



TSunknown warrior
post Mar 27 2023, 09:45 AM

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In times of challenges and troubles, run to Jesus

Colossians 1:17 (NIV) - He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

God has the power to hold your life together.

Other than Colossians 1:7, Hebrews 1:3 tells us, Jesus who is the exact express image of God, sustains all things by the power of his word.

The word sustain is the same as hold. Hebrews 1:3 also teaches us God sustains all things.

Sometimes things can get crazy.

If it does, come to God in prayer and in communion. Pray to God to hold your world together that it will not fall apart.

Whether it's relationship, marriage, children, work, whatever. God can hold your world together so that you will not fall apart.

If you need any of us to pray with you, feel free to leave a message.

God Bless.



TSunknown warrior
post Mar 28 2023, 09:50 AM

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What does walk in the light means?

1 John 1:17 (NIV) - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

There is a debate with regards to 1 John 1, where theologians argue this letter was written to believers and there is another argument it's for non-believers. What is the implication on this?

It has to do with Salvation and forgiveness of sin.

I personally think it make sense to state, this letter for written for the church where there are believers and non believers in the same setting. Some verses in there are meant for believers and some verse were meant for the non believing crowd, especially verse 8 in particular. In reading the bible, we can ask God for spiritual wisdom and even spiritual intelligence to understand. Otherwise, our reading will be made understood from natural mind leading to all sorts of baseless assumptions.

For the believers of Christ, we already accepted we have sin and thus confess the need for savior, likewise believers already accepted the apostles were chosen by the Lord and that they were with the Lord physically, hence there is no need to be convinced of this. Those verses were meant for the docetism / gnostic crowd.

During the time of apostle John, docetism was a sectarian doctrine that crept into the Church, it was part of Gnostic doctrine where they believe Christ did not have a real or natural body, that Salvation was achieved not by being freed from sin but by special knowledge (gnostic). Hence to counter this heresy, John stated Christ came in the physical body and we all have sin. Apostle John was using a third perspective language by reference of "we". It is not necessary in reference to believers because as mentioned earlier, believers already acknowledge sin. This "we" was addressed to the gnostic crowd. It's how we communicate with words sometime, " If we want to be taken care of in old age, please contribute to EPF ". Doesn't mean everyone in the word "we" are not contributors.

Anyway, moving on, I want to bring to attention on 1 John 1:17.

What does walking the light means? There is a powerful revelation in there.

There is an error and misuse of interpretation to indicate it means obedience / performances. I beg to differ. The verse does not say If we walk according to the light. Because if it refers to performances then it makes absolutely no sense at all. If you are already walking in the light (obedient performances) then why do you still need the blood of Jesus to be purified of all sins? You are doing no wrong, there is no need for purification of sin, do you see this?

To fully understand 1 John 1:17, you need to see verse 5 and then verse 6. The key lies in the truth, God is light, in him there is no darkness at all. This is about revelation perspective. If God is light and in him there is no darkness, and you have relationship with God, if you see yourself still in darkness, then you are not being truthful. Try digest this from eyes of faith in Christ. Don't see this from negative perspective.

But if you walk in the light with the same perspective that God is in the light, IE meaning, you see yourself being in the same light, then the promise happens! Christ blood purifies you from all sins. All means all, not one iota of sins is left unpunished at the cross. This cleansing is in the present continuous tense. You are being kept there 24/7.

This is very encouraging indeed as we are all imperfect human beings living in a fallen corruptible body. Bear in mind, just because you live in a corruptible body doesn't mean your spirit is corrupted, No. Your Spirit has been made right with God once and for all. (Hebrews 10:10). Always keep this bible truth in mind.

Anyway in conclusion, 1 John 1:17 is about revelation truth, IE perspective and we are called to live in that truth by faith. You are in the light, act like one!

God Bless!


This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 28 2023, 12:37 PM
desmond2020
post Mar 29 2023, 09:59 AM

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dude, that is 1 john 1:7

Anyway, that pretty unconventional interpretation of said verse. Let see what mainstream intepretation is:-

1 John 1:7
by Grant Richison | Feb 12, 2001 | 1 John | 10 comments

Read Introduction to 1 John


“But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.”



Verse 7 introduces the counter-claim to the false claim in verse 6 of walking in fellowship with God.

But if we walk in the light

Believers who want to walk with God must walk in the light. We fellowship with God on God’s terms and not on our terms. We conform to God; God does not conform to us.

Eph 5:8-14, 8 “For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light… 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret. 13 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light. 14 Therefore He says:

‘Awake, you who sleep,

Arise from the dead,

And Christ will give you light.’”

Co 1:12-14, 12 “…giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.”

as He is in the light,

The basis of fellowship with God is God Himself. When we walk in the light, we walk according to the light. God is in the light. He exists in the sphere of truth and righteousness.

1 Ti 6:16, “…who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.”

we have fellowship with one another,

“Fellowship with one another” is not fellowship with other Christians but fellowship with God. When we walk according to the character of God, we can fellowship with God. Genuine fellowship with God can only occur if we live in the sphere of God’s character (light).

We can fellowship with God because we hold something in common with Him. Christians have continuity of fellowship with Him because the blood of Christ resolves the sin issue. We can walk in the light because of Christ, not because of human merit.

PRINCIPLE:

God determines our fellowship with Him on His character, not our character.

APPLICATION:

Walking in darkness is walking out of phase with God, not in accordance with the truth. Darkness is the absence of light. When we step out of phase with God, we walk in darkness. We turn our volition away from the truth of God concerning our lives. This makes us susceptible not to examine ourselves honestly. If we do not examine ourselves, we will not apply the truth to experience. We then walk in delusion.

Eph 5:11, “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.”

When we walk in the light, we become easier to live with. We are more compassionate and gracious. We walk without pretense before others. We are transparent and genuine with others. We are transparent with God.

1 Pe 2:9, “But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light…

The nearer we get to God, the more terrible our sin seems to us. Living in fellowship with God means that we do not demonstrate our anger as often as we used to do. We live according to our claim to walk with the God of light. We are not as critical and negative as we used to be.

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Mar 29 2023, 10:08 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 30 2023, 10:54 AM

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Well like I said, and you can think this with spiritual wisdom.

If you are already walking in the light, why is there a need for the blood of Christ to cleanse from all sins/unrighteousness?

give it a thought.

==============

PS: Anyway and you can check in all the translations, scripture clearly records Walk in the Light and not according to Light. There is a difference in there. If it's walk according then what Grant Richison mentioned would be right but as it is, it's walk in the light, meaning a reminder to the Christians they have been saved.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Mar 30 2023, 11:01 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 30 2023, 01:44 PM

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Exposition on 1 John 1

1 John 1:9 (NIV) - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Before I began, i just want to state the intention of all the devotions shared is to get the believer close to our Heavenly Father via Jesus Christ and to get the believer out of the cycle of sin. <=== There is no other reason other than this one.

I know, there are believers from various denominations and the devotions written may seemingly be unconventional or that it's not what you've been traditional taught. But I appeal for your patience to digest first before responding.
You have the Holy Spirit in you to guide you in all things.

John 14:26
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.


1 John 2:27 (NIV)
As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

While this is not stated in the Bible but it is generally agreed one of the many reasons why Jesus Christ came is to remove the spirit of legalism / religion (IE seeing God as hard task master) and to establish relationship with God. The reason for my devotion is to be inline with this objective.

Christianity is really nothing more than relationship with a loving Father who is God. And unless the stigma of sin consciousness is removed, the fruits of the holy spirit is hindered.

With all that being said, I'll start by saying 1 John 1:9 is primarily a salvation verse. All that was written 1 John 1 was to counter Gnostic heresy. Gnostic does not believe Jesus came in physical body and they also don't believe in sin as how it's explained in the Bible. It is generally understood, gnosticism share same root in Neoplatonism and Buddhism.

Why is it a Salvation verse? Well because of 2 strong reasons. The word sin in 1 John 1:9, on both occasion is not a verb but a noun. You can check this in the Greek.

A sin noun is hamartia whereas a sin verb is hamartano. Both of them are noun. They are hamartia. What is the point for this? It has to do with forgiveness of sins.

There is a difference between 1 John 1 and 1 John 2. In 1 John 2, this epistle, clearly shown was written for the believers; if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ. So God knew, even after conversion, believers can still sin. But the key point to note is that we have an advocate. Advocate in this context is like a lawyer defending us but on his own expense (blood). This advocate according to bible is victorious because His blood payment is well accepted by the Judge. And in this chapter, the word sin is a noun, harmatano, meaning action.

And the reason why apostle John wrote 1 John 2 is found in verse 12.

QUOTE
*12 I am writing to you, dear children,

because your sins have been forgiven on account of his name.


"Have been forgiven".

What is the point in all of these? Well, don't allow anyone to use scripture against you, IE to put doubt on your salvation. When you first prayed your Salvation prayer (the sinner's prayer), do you state every single one of them you have commited in order to be saved? I can tell you with 100% certainty, nobody does that because it's virtually impossible. You wouldn't remember all of them from birth anyway. Majority of the time, we ask God to forgive all of our past sins without being specific in order to be saved. If that is true in the Salvation prayer then it also holds true after conversion for sins committed after.

Am I saying you don't need to confess sins as believer? No. Please do by all means. But do it in the revelation of verse 12*, understand you have an advocate in heaven in case there are sins you have forgotten about.

Don't doubt on the Salvation given to you that came with a great price which you can do nothing to merit or pay but only to receive with gladness and humility.

Always remember, 1 John 1:9 is primarily a salvation verse.

God Bless



myway1985
post Mar 31 2023, 01:00 PM

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From: Kuchai Lama


“You are the salt of the earth. But what good is salt if it has lost its flavor? Can you make it salty again? It will be thrown out and trampled underfoot as worthless.
Matthew 5:13 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/mat.5.13.NLT

Let's discuss this... Chemistry term.. under wat circumstances salt will lost it flavor.. mayb we HV some misconceptions bout this verse
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 31 2023, 01:40 PM

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Interestingly salt cannot lose its saltiness in it's natural form not unless there is mixture or contamination with other ingredient.

I see that as an encouragement when one is united with Christ, it's very hard if not almost impossible to lose whatever that is implied in losing.
Roman Catholic
post Mar 31 2023, 02:15 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Mar 31 2023, 01:40 PM)
Interestingly salt cannot lose its saltiness in it's natural form not unless there is mixture or contamination with other ingredient.

I see that as an encouragement when one is united with Christ, it's very hard if not almost impossible to lose whatever that is implied in losing.
*
Salt will lose its saltiness once it's exposed to heat for extended period of time. Thereafter, it's thrown out just like what it's written in Sacred Scriptures.
TSunknown warrior
post Mar 31 2023, 02:33 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Mar 31 2023, 02:15 PM)
Salt will lose its saltiness once it's exposed to heat for extended period of time. Thereafter, it's thrown out just like what it's written in Sacred Scriptures.
*
QUOTE
Luke 14:31-35 (NIV)

31“Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Won’t he first sit down and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32 If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace. 33 In the same way, those of you who do not give up everything you have cannot be my disciples.

34 “Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? 35 It is fit neither for the soil nor for the manure pile; it is thrown out.



And this is explained again in Luke 14. Verse 34 talks about salt and I believe it's tied to all the preceding verses above.

It has to do with coming to the end of one self and submit to God in surrender devoid of own strength for God's empowerment to flow through.

Interestingly Christ use the narrative if one consider himself as a king and you are coming against another King who has stronger arsenal. (Verse 31 to 32 talks about whether the believer is strong enough but interestingly Christ pit the strength of the believer against a greater King (i believe refer to God)

Many ppl missed out we cannot live Christian life in own strength. I guess by doing that, you can lose the saltiness.

So to remain as "Salt" so to speak, I believe what Jesus Christ wants us to do, is to come the end of ourselves (from verse 25 to 31 <--refer to your bible) and as verse 32 says it, be at peace with our God King in union. Then we can an effective witness to the world.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Apr 1 2023, 09:51 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 1 2023, 09:50 AM

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The way to fight the devil

James 4:7 (NIV) - Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

The way to fight is not to fight directly against the devil. We are not that powerful. But God is.

First sentence of James 4:7 is submit. When you submit to God, that is telling the devil you belong to God and that is all that is needed to
the message to this enemy, you are under God's protection and care. To submit to God is to be humble before God. (James 4:6) There will be God's grace (Favor) on you when you do this.

The next step is then to resist the devil, meaning to take a firm stand against, refusing to be moved (push back). It's akin to making a stand against something you completely disagree with it. (This stand is against the devil ya, not against your love ones, or any people)

Last step is to come close to God, let go whatever that is troubling you to God, believe the blood of Christ washes you and take a firm stand on faith.

Doing these things, by power of God's word, the devil will flee from you.

We all need this in times of attack from the enemy.

Believers, whatever attack you are going through right now, this word is for you to take a stand.

God bless.


This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Apr 1 2023, 09:52 AM
SUSsomewhataut
post Apr 2 2023, 01:39 AM

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Has anyone heard of the chosen ones? what i've been experiencing since a few years ago matches the signs, i'm not even christian
gashout
post Apr 2 2023, 06:23 AM

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QUOTE(somewhataut @ Apr 2 2023, 01:39 AM)
Has anyone heard of the chosen ones? what i've been experiencing since a few years ago matches the signs, i'm not even christian
*
What do you mean chosen ones?


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post Apr 2 2023, 08:59 AM

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QUOTE(somewhataut @ Apr 2 2023, 01:39 AM)
Has anyone heard of the chosen ones? what i've been experiencing since a few years ago matches the signs, i'm not even christian
*
What exactly have you been experiencing as a chosen one ?
desmond2020
post Apr 2 2023, 09:24 AM

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QUOTE(somewhataut @ Apr 2 2023, 01:39 AM)
Has anyone heard of the chosen ones? what i've been experiencing since a few years ago matches the signs, i'm not even christian
*
Maybe that is the devil whispering
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 3 2023, 09:34 AM

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Is it the 2 witness?
sunami
post Apr 4 2023, 01:08 PM

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I can be real with You
Say anything and not be afraid
You made me and You like what You made
You made me and You don’t make mistakes
I can be real with You

You take me just as I am
You’d choose me all over again
I am the one You love
I am the one You love
I don’t have to prove anything
There’s room at Your table for me
I am the one You love
I am the one You love

I know You’re proud of me
Even though I don’t deserve it sometimes
No I’m not a perfect child
But I still make my Father smile
I know You’re proud of me

Your love Your love never fails
Your love never fails

This post has been edited by sunami: Apr 4 2023, 01:10 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 4 2023, 01:10 PM

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Fuuuuh! Chandler Moore is really something.

Been following him for awhile, his creativity in songwriting and singing is really next level.
sunami
post Apr 4 2023, 01:11 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 4 2023, 02:10 PM)
Fuuuuh! Chandler Moore is really something.

Been following him for awhile, his creativity in songwriting and singing is really next level.
*
tears drop by only reading the lyrics cry.gif
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 7 2023, 10:52 AM

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Blessed Easter to all Christians



Lyrics:


Ada tempat yang mulia
anug'rah-Mu tercurah
Kau berikan hidup-Mu
s'bagai ganti dosaku

Lebih dari yang kukira
pengampunan yang kut'rima
Kasih Yesus yang abadi
mengalir di Kalvari

Oleh kar'na salib-Mu
seluruh hidupku milik-Mu, Tuhan
Darah-Mu sucikanku
Kuasa salib-Mu pulihkanku
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 7 2023, 11:16 AM

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Devotion on Psalms 103

Psalms 103 is powerful in it's own right. Psalms basically means sacred song or hymn which you can meditate and sing.
You can sing verbally or sing in your heart. And it's not just for aesthetic feeling. God's word or Psalms even can affect in the natural world.

You can take a portion of it to meditate. Today we will look at verse 10.

QUOTE
Psalms 103

1 Praise the Lord, my soul;
all my inmost being, praise his holy name.

2 Praise the Lord, my soul,
and forget not all his benefits—

3 who forgives all your sins
and heals all your diseases,

4 who redeems your life from the pit
and crowns you with love and compassion,

5 who satisfies your desires with good things
so that your youth is renewed like the eagle’s.

6 The Lord works righteousness
and justice for all the oppressed.

7 He made known his ways to Moses,
his deeds to the people of Israel:

8 The Lord is compassionate and gracious,
slow to anger, abounding in love.

9 He will not always accuse,
nor will he harbor his anger forever;

10 he does not treat us as our sins deserve
or repay us according to our iniquities.

11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is his love for those who fear him;

12 as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

13 As a father has compassion on his children,
so the Lord has compassion on those who fear him;

14 for he knows how we are formed,
he remembers that we are dust.

15 The life of mortals is like grass,
they flourish like a flower of the field;

16 the wind blows over it and it is gone,
and its place remembers it no more.

17 But from everlasting to everlasting
the Lord’s love is with those who fear him,
and his righteousness with their children’s children—

18 with those who keep his covenant
and remember to obey his precepts.

19 The Lord has established his throne in heaven,
and his kingdom rules over all.

20 Praise the Lord, you his angels,
you mighty ones who do his bidding,
who obey his word.

21 Praise the Lord, all his heavenly hosts,
you his servants who do his will.

22 Praise the Lord, all his works
everywhere in his dominion.
Praise the Lord, my soul.


====================================

As Child of God, look at verse 10 and meditate on it.

Let that encourage you to come close to God for answers to your prayers.
If you have sinful or bad habits, let verse 10 encourage you to come near to God for deliverance.
Deliverance via prayers to God to be freed.
Pray to God in everything.

God Bless.

TSunknown warrior
post Apr 7 2023, 01:46 PM

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GaunterO'Dimm P
post Apr 7 2023, 08:15 PM

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QUOTE(somewhataut @ Apr 2 2023, 01:39 AM)
Has anyone heard of the chosen ones? what i've been experiencing since a few years ago matches the signs, i'm not even christian
*
wat chosen one?

as a christian first thing u will learn is u are a nobody
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 11 2023, 01:23 PM

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How many times will God forgive you?

Matthew 18:22 (NKJV) - Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

It's a very interesting and relevant question, Apostle Peter asked our Lord Jesus.

How many times should I forgive those that have sin / wronged me? Up to 7 times?

Jesus said "..up to seventy times seven" That is a lot of forgiveness to give. Now whether that translate to 77 times or 490 times, the point is to forgive and not keep count.

The multiple times that Jesus ask you to forgive others is not meant for you to keep track. If you do, you missed the point completely, and has not really forgiven others. You're holding account on those that wrong you even if you claim that you've forgiven. God can see the secret of a person's heart.

What about God? It's never stated anywhere in the Bible the number of times God will forgive but very clearly stated God will forgive. But you need to forgive others as well.

If you don't then you are holding on to the sin of unforgiveness which the enemy will not hesitate to enter in via as a legal right against your life. If the enemy has a strong legal right against you, that is how our life is being attack and destroyed. This is how we are defeated easily in spiritual warfare.

For a child of God, it's not about how many times God will forgive you. But whether you will do the right thing?

And the righteous thing to do is to let go and forgive others who wronged you because God has forgiven you. It is only right!

It doesn't get any simpler than this.

Friend, it's not worth your time, your peace, your joy and your life to hold on to unforgiveness. It will only destroy you.

Even if it's extremely hard to let go because of extreme hurt and pain, pray to God to help you let go. Come to Him for peace and deliverance. Tell God, it's very hard for you, you need the Holy Spirit help. Trust and believe that God will work in you for this to be possible.

Have faith.

God Bless.







TSunknown warrior
post Apr 15 2023, 12:46 PM

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You can hear from God

John 10:27 (KJV) - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me

Blessed grace fellow Christians.

Do you know this is a given? That you can hear God? Jesus Himself said "My sheep hear my voice..." Not try to hear, It is My sheep hears my voice.

Well how do you hear God's voice? Well first thing you need to know is that, don't fight or reason how and why. Just believe and readily accept it's the truth from God. And whatever native languages available in this world is not a barrier to God.

God can communicate in ANY languages. But how does God speak and how do you (as his child) hear God?

God speaks to his children via The Holy Spirit. Every child of God has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is THE one who speaks.

In the Old Testament;

Ezekiel 2:2 (NIV) - As he spoke, the Spirit came into me and raised me to my feet, and I heard him speaking to me.

John 16: 13 (NIV) - But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

Hebrews 3:7 - 8 (NIV) - So, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the wilderness,


So as you can see from scripture, this is something that is common, nothing foreign as many times in the Bible God speaks to his people, it's true back then, it's true even now for God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

Don't ever allow anyone to convince you otherwise. Any teachings or saying that tells you God no longer speak today like in the days in the Bible is not the truth. If you believe in that lie, then according what you believe, it will be unto you. That is why some people in ignorant have hindered themselves from hearing from God. Because their believe system is wrong. Don't listen to the opinion of Man, Listen to the word of God.

You may say But I've tried and I can't hear from God.

Repent, change your mind, be convince that you can hear from God and God can speak to you. That is 1st step.

Next step is pray. Ask God to speak to you, Ask God to open your spiritual ear to be able to hear. That is 2nd step.

For those who are new to this. Ask God to speak to you through his word in the Bible. Pray to the Holy Spirit to quicken God's word, to RHEMA God's Word. This is 3rd step.

Once you have cultivated this as a norm for you, the next step is to ALWAYS be ready to listen to God's voice. Always be ready in expectation, ask God to speak to you in any way God wants to. Give God that freedom / permission to speak to you however God wants to. Whether it's through people, through circumstances, etc does not matter.

What matter is that you EVERYDAY speak to God, communicate to God and expect God to speak to you. The expectation must be there.

When you practise this long enough, it won't be long you will cultivate the sensitivity to hear from God. But how do you know it's God speaking and not your own imagination or the devil even?

To know it's from God, It is always of peace, love and it doesn't contradict God's Word in the Bible OR contradict God's nature. That is how you know. If you hear a supposedly voice asking you to hurt someone for example, then you know things like this is never from God. Just reject it.

But what is God's voice? Is it an audible voice, thoughts, etc? More often God speaks in a gentle and quiet whisper to the heart. It's a knowing, hard to explain, you need to put this into practise to understand. What God speaks to our hearts will usually always be Scripture-based. Can God speak other things? For sure can. "For example if you hear "Love that person" or Forgive that person or Help the person...You can know that is from God. Can God speak audibly? For sure can. As long as you never limit God, God will speak to you.

Well there you have it. If you have any questions on this, feel free to PM me or drop a message.

God Bless.



SUSsomewhataut
post Apr 17 2023, 05:31 AM

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QUOTE(GaunterO'Dimm @ Apr 7 2023, 08:15 PM)
wat chosen one?

as a christian first thing u will learn is u are a nobody
*
Some people know about the chosen ones and can sense us, out of envy some of them try to convince us that we are no different, but some of them aid us because they want to be a part of it. I am not aware of any superior trait I have, I wasn’t even Christian and I’m not a bible hugger, maybe Christianity isn’t relevant at all, nobody knows why we are chosen except the universe itself

This post has been edited by somewhataut: Apr 17 2023, 06:23 AM
desmond2020
post Apr 17 2023, 08:15 AM

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QUOTE(somewhataut @ Apr 17 2023, 05:31 AM)
Some people know about the chosen ones and can sense us, out of envy some of them try to convince us that we are no different, but some of them aid us because they want to be a part of it. I am not aware of any superior trait I have, I wasn’t even Christian and I’m not a bible hugger, maybe Christianity isn’t relevant at all, nobody knows why we are chosen except the universe itself
*
so, what are you being chosen for?
SUSsomewhataut
post Apr 17 2023, 08:44 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Apr 17 2023, 08:15 AM)
so, what are you being chosen for?
*
I don’t know,

That’s why some of those who can sense us stalk and study us thinking that our education and career decisions can signify what we are being chosen for, or things we are interested/good in, the truth is no one can really find out until the time come, education and career is a great portion effort that people put into, what we are chosen for can still have nothing to with it
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 17 2023, 08:44 AM

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QUOTE(somewhataut @ Apr 17 2023, 05:31 AM)
Some people know about the chosen ones and can sense us, out of envy some of them try to convince us that we are no different, but some of them aid us because they want to be a part of it. I am not aware of any superior trait I have, I wasn’t even Christian and I’m not a bible hugger, maybe Christianity isn’t relevant at all, nobody knows why we are chosen except the universe itself
*
We are all chosen ones in the Lord. Ironically it's not that we choose God but the opposite.

God is the one who chose us to be saved. It's definitely not the universe. So if you have something to share how you encountered God, I would like to hear it.
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 17 2023, 08:47 AM

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Just want to share this song in here.

It Sings about gratitude to God.
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 17 2023, 10:48 AM

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By his stripes we are healed

Matthew 8:16 - 17 (NIV) - When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:

“He took up our infirmities
and bore our diseases.”

In the Christian world, the phrase "by his stripes, we are healed" is a famous and well remembered verse. It came from Isaiah 53:5.

Isaiah 53:5 (NIV) - But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed.

The word wounds is actually in context of stripes on Christ back, 40 excruciating painful whip lashes minus one. The whip was a torturous device attached with spikes. It's called the Roman Flagrum. The flesh on Lord Jesus was literally stripped. It's painful to watch but even more painful borned by Jesus Christ. It would be a dishonor to God to reject what God has painstakingly given you, this grace of healing.

And it is not spiritual healing but physical one. Matthew 8:16-17 testify to this.

Some of you may have believe but it never happen. You have done all you know but nothing.

My advice is to have a pure mind (as pure as heaven) when it comes to this. Whatever people have told you otherwise or whatever experience may have convince you otherwise, reject all of them the whys or the buts.

Keep believing and live by faith of what Isaiah 53 says. Don't get angry or disappointed with God. Just tell God I don't fully understand why but I choose to trust you and to honor you. God's healing can happen instantaneous, at times taking time and not immediately. But either way and truthfully, God's healing is always available. Our obligation as Christian is to keep praising God and Thank Him in whatever situations. You know, praise and gratefulness (being thankful) more often than not open doors to healing manifestation quicker than we expect because praise is 2 fold; a weapon against the enemy and honors God.

The devil would want you to be bitter and grumbling as something default. As Christians, you know in your heart, murmuring is not your portion in life. Have a joyful countenance. But also have a holy countenance as to not fall into the devil's trap.

And if anyone tells you God's power and healing has stop and no longer apply today, reject them immediately as they are from the doctrine of the devil.

God still heals today and in this life. God did not create us or the world with death and disease in mind but recognize this world is a fallen world and devil's only goal is to kill, steal and destroy.

I pray that this devotion may stir you to believe and pray unto The Lord for healing.

God Bless.













SUSsomewhataut
post Apr 19 2023, 11:20 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 17 2023, 08:44 AM)
We are all chosen ones in the Lord. Ironically it's not that we choose God but the opposite.

God is the one who chose us to be saved. It's definitely not the universe. So if you have something to share how you encountered God, I would like to hear it.
*
I’m not talking about the following of a religion, it is about being selected for an unknown purpose, therefore are protected and attacked at the same time

If I have to summarise my encounter in one word, it’s gang stalking, I was an atheist when this happened for the first time, I tried to find explanation to what I’m going through, from government surveillance to underground organisations, i looked through my history to find reasons for the stalking but to no avail.

The reason we found out is because the chosen ones have gathered to share information, many of us share the same or similar experiences

None the less, we continue to live a normal life under all these surveillance, sabotages and strange favours, one thing I heard is that relationship will never work for us no matter how attractive we made ourselves, god will only assign a partner to us if our mission requires, but it is very rare, it bothers me a lot, I felt like I have missed out a beautiful thing in life, I fight it although I know nothing will work
GaunterO'Dimm P
post Apr 20 2023, 12:14 PM

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QUOTE(somewhataut @ Apr 17 2023, 05:31 AM)
Some people know about the chosen ones and can sense us, out of envy some of them try to convince us that we are no different, but some of them aid us because they want to be a part of it. I am not aware of any superior trait I have, I wasn’t even Christian and I’m not a bible hugger, maybe Christianity isn’t relevant at all, nobody knows why we are chosen except the universe itself
*
u don't have any superior trait but just a wretched soul like me and all others

u stand to be condemned unless u believe in Jesus Christ and repent from your worldly life while u still alive
SUSpetpenyubobo
post Apr 21 2023, 07:32 PM

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QUOTE(somewhataut @ Apr 19 2023, 11:20 AM)
I’m not talking about the following of a religion, it is about being selected for an unknown purpose, therefore are protected and attacked at the same time

If I have to summarise my encounter in one word, it’s gang stalking, I was an atheist when this happened for the first time, I tried to find explanation to what I’m going through, from government surveillance to underground organisations, i looked through my history to find reasons for the stalking but to no avail.

The reason we found out is because the chosen ones have gathered to share information, many of us share the same or similar experiences 

None the less, we continue to live a normal life under all these surveillance, sabotages and strange favours, one thing I heard is that relationship will never work for us no matter how attractive we made ourselves, god will only assign a partner to us if our mission requires, but it is very rare, it bothers me a lot, I felt like I have missed out a beautiful thing in life, I fight it although I know nothing will work
*
What you described is called being a Targeted Individual (TI) which is almost unheard of in Malaysia but it's very real among secret societies and underground officials.
Look up the term in Google.

I believe in what you're trying to express there and very true that secret societies do exists in traditional old churches, the RCC as well as modern day charismatic Pentecostal churches. It existed for many centuries among the Romans to gather sensitive intelligence from the public and control societies. Among them the Illuminati and Masons. The idea actually originated from the Jews who are the Fathers of COMMUNISM as it was derived from the Babylonian Talmud teachings among their tribes. The method was created to ensure that no rumors or hidden secrets could get out of their tribe back in the history. No stones are left unturned and no betrayers among their community.

Psychopaths, narcissists and power hungry people often dwell in communions where the public socializes. It makes churches and religion a very suitable choice for them to spread their influences, spy among the communities for rumors/inside news and mingle among the crowd.

You cannot put your full TRUST among society especially during the end times as warned in the Bible. The term of "Wolves in sheep skin" is very real. Solidarity and discernment through experience helps identify people whom you cannot trust despite them having very clean, humble and reputable image. The Bible again warns us in 2 Corinthians Chapter 11 that Satan presents himself to you as an angel of light to catch you off guard. He deceives and so are his followers who also may present themselves as saints, reputable faces, prominent figures but are devils in disguise all out to get you into trouble and make your life difficult.

There are 18 versus in the Bible which warns and tells us that in the days of end times it is advisable to be vigilant and live in solidarity(avoid socializing too much) among society except turst only your closest family members by "Escaping to The Mountains". https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Escaping-To-Mountains
1 Peter Chapter 5 says the devil prowls like a roaring lion which in today's society he is among your anyone in society it could be your best friends, a church leader/elder, a highly popular figure/face which has very high approval from public, the nicest person on the outer appearance but beware.

I am here to give you HOPE that you're NOT ALONE being stalked and intimidated by this secret groups of people. The more ALONE you are with no support of friends/families the deeper your FEAR will get yourself into until you might be driven into insanity if you're not strong willed. Wherever you are try to move to a new place or city for a new life.

This post has been edited by petpenyubobo: Apr 21 2023, 07:45 PM
SUSpetpenyubobo
post Apr 21 2023, 08:14 PM

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QUOTE(somewhataut @ Apr 17 2023, 08:44 AM)
I don’t know,

That’s why some of those who can sense us stalk and study us thinking that our education and career decisions can signify what we are being chosen for, or things we are interested/good in, the truth is no one can really find out until the time come, education and career is a great portion effort that people put into, what we are chosen for can still have nothing to with it
*
Here are some advice if you suspect yourself being a TI or being gang stalked.
https://proclivitysprinciplewisdom.medium.c...do-8add497d45d4

The ancient writers of the Bible were well informed about being "gang stalked".

The article writes:
As comparative literature to the recorded research regarding the phenomenon in the Book of Job, we can illustrate how “the Satan”, provoking God regarding his faithful follower Job, by saying to him; “Have not you yourself put up a hedge about him and about his house and about everything that he has all around? The work of his hands you have blessed, and his livestock itself has spread abroad in the earth. But, for a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch everything he has [and see] whether he will not curse you to your very face [Job 1:10–11].” So, what does God do, he allows Satan to torment Job just to see whether or not Job’s “free-will” might be changed. Job is transformed through the enforcement of purposeful loss of property and children by Satan as well as made to sacrifice through physical pain and suffering (torture) his health and wealth, reduced to a shadow of his former self for the purpose of change.As a result, Job becomes angry at God for punishing him for no good reason. Similar to how the TI feels about being mandated to sacrifice and lose through the physical pain of torture in the absence of any good reason. Of course, this theory makes the GAME OF THE TARGETED INDIVIDUAL highly unorthodox, inhumane, and illegal.

Your solutions? Since you cannot directly stop the invisible stalking and harassments,

1) You can temporarily or permanently change your physical location by leaving your property/environment.

2) Avoid doing things which gives you a bad impression of you like taking mental control drugs, alcohol or indulge in bad image activities such as adultery/non marriage sex.

3) Keep a journal close to you. Write every event you do everyday for record. If anything bad happens to you or some accident takes place make sure it gets to the hands of your closest family member safely.

4)Most importantly, stay alert, keep calm and never question your sanity. Things like this are authentic and happen daily to innocent people, perhaps even people you know. And do what is necessary to remain resilient in the face of this abuse.
SUSsomewhataut
post Apr 21 2023, 09:06 PM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 21 2023, 07:32 PM)
What you described is called being a Targeted Individual (TI) which is almost unheard of in Malaysia but it's very real among secret societies and underground officials.
Look up the term in Google.

I believe in what you're trying to express there and very true that secret societies do exists in traditional old churches, the RCC as well as modern day charismatic Pentecostal churches. It existed for many centuries among the Romans to gather sensitive intelligence from the public and control societies. Among them the Illuminati and Masons. The idea actually originated from the Jews who are the Fathers of COMMUNISM as it was derived from the Babylonian Talmud teachings among their tribes. The method was created to ensure that no rumors or hidden secrets could get out of their tribe back in the history. No stones are left unturned and no betrayers among their community.

Psychopaths, narcissists and power hungry people often dwell in communions where the public socializes. It makes churches and religion a very suitable choice for them to spread their influences, spy among the communities for rumors/inside news and mingle among the crowd.

You cannot put your full TRUST among society especially during the end times as warned in the Bible. The term of "Wolves in sheep skin" is very real. Solidarity and discernment through experience helps identify people whom you cannot trust despite them having very clean, humble and reputable image. The Bible again warns us in 2 Corinthians Chapter 11 that Satan presents himself to you as an angel of light to catch you off guard. He deceives and so are his followers who also may present themselves as saints, reputable faces, prominent figures but are devils in disguise all out to get you into trouble and make your life difficult.

There are 18 versus in the Bible which warns and tells us that in the days of end times it is advisable to be vigilant and live in solidarity(avoid socializing too much) among society except  turst only your closest family members by "Escaping to The Mountains". https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Escaping-To-Mountains
1 Peter Chapter 5 says the devil prowls like a roaring lion which in today's society he is among your anyone in society it could be your best friends, a church leader/elder, a highly popular figure/face which has very high approval from public, the nicest person on the outer appearance but beware.

I am here to give you HOPE that you're NOT ALONE being stalked and intimidated by this secret groups of people. The more ALONE you are with no support of friends/families the deeper your FEAR will get yourself into until you might be driven into insanity if you're not strong willed. Wherever you are try to move to a new place or city for a new life.
*
So am I or am I not a chosen one? I read your reply several times, I am still confused. It’s all deception? Can I trust the chosen community? Is it safe for us to talk further publicly? What will happen to me if I continue this conversation here? They gave me job and protected me from sabotages, am I risking that?

I have A LOT to ask and tell you if you are willing to listen. But just days after I share my exp here I received an update fromthe community that god wants us to keep silent, in an almost belittling and hostile tone, they say what they informed us is for our own vision not for convincing the others, they wouldn’t believe anyway, god will not bless us further if we continue to talk too much, I need you to tell me whether I can trust them

Thank you for being here, you’re the only local I can talk to about this, we constantly hear from the chosen community that we don’t need anyone, now im not even sure if I can trust them, but deep down I’m in desperate need for allies, especially local, I am very glad you are here.
SUSpetpenyubobo
post Apr 21 2023, 10:17 PM

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QUOTE(somewhataut @ Apr 21 2023, 09:06 PM)
So am I or am I not a chosen one? I read your reply several times, I am still confused. It’s all deception? Can I trust the chosen community? Is it safe for us to talk further publicly? What will happen to me if I continue this conversation here? They gave me job and protected me from sabotages, am I risking that?

I have A LOT to ask and tell you if you are willing to listen. But just days after I share my exp here I received an update fromthe community that god wants us to keep silent, in an almost belittling and hostile tone, they say what they informed us is for our own vision not for convincing the others, they wouldn’t believe anyway, god will not bless us further if we continue to talk too much, I need you to tell me whether I can trust them

Thank you for being here, you’re the only local I can talk to about this, we constantly hear from the chosen community that we don’t need anyone, now im not even sure if I can trust them, but deep down I’m in desperate need for allies, especially local, I am very glad you are here.
*
As a unknown friend across the screen which I might not know you in life, I advise you to take precaution and be careful of committing yourself to new age church movements, cults and secret societies of today.

When in church when people approach you in a very friendly manner like a close friend, a brother or fatherly figure to you when they try to get close to you with personal and sensitive questions always doubt prevent and be alert.

The New Age Movement, Churches, & Christians
https://robertwimer.com/the-new-age-movemen...hes-christians/

Are You Targetted/Chosen?


A testimony from an ex New Age Occultist who serves a church disguised as a church leader/elder/committee to recruit others:

QUOTE
If you ask most Christians if they believe in reincarnation, healing crystals, or that Jesus was an alien hybrid, they would emphatically say “no”, but ask them about “Christ-consciousness”, Universalism, how you can speak to angels, Yoga, T.M. (Transcendental Meditation), or how to manifest miracles, you might get an earful of information from the person sitting next to you in Sunday services before the sermon.  Many within the church see the New Age movement as nothing more than something going on “over there” or a fad that happened back in the 70s, but the truth of it is, the New Age movement is a very real, evolving threat to the church, and most practice it in some way, shape or form.

As a former New Ager that went into the Occult, I would like to share my experiences as to what New Age actually is, how Christians & churches can easily become deceived, and know if you are “targeted”.

What is “New Age”

Think of the New Age movement as the “job fair” of spirituality.  At a job fair, space is rented for a day, where different businesses can set up shop for interested parties.  People walk around, looking at the different booths, talking with the individuals manning said booths, reading information about their company, and finally, making a choice as to whether or not they (the applicant) will join.

The New Age movement is basically the same thing.

Demons create a “spiritual space”, where a smattering of religions and belief systems are brought to the “arena” of New Age, where people can choose from a variety of ideas to believe in.  There are a plethora of things to choose from, and you will gravitate towards certain ideas based upon your nature and proclivities.  Have an interest in UFOs, there’s a “booth” for you.  How about peak performance, where the mind is explored at some point – yes, there’s a booth for that.  New Age takes from everything, including Hinduism, Buddhism, Wicca, Christianity, and hundreds of other religions & ideologies.

From this spiritual space, you are maneuvered into bondage into a particular idea set.  New Age is the “smiling salesperson” that always has a bright, shiny thing to show you and flattering words, but the whole goal is to get you deceived and into bondage.

How churches and Christians are easily deceived

When I got further into the Occult, my “handlers” (demons I was communing with) taught me how to specifically target Christians and churches.  In a nutshell, a Christian or church can be easily deceived when there are two things present:

1) Biblical illiteracy
2) Lack of the Holy Spirit


Dead churches and Christians always fell prey to the things I hate to say.  With a Biblically illiterate church/Christian, I could gain their trust easily through time, spout off some passages once trust and authority have been established, and nudge the individual or groups into a direction.  From there, it was easy to read their proclivities and “guide” them into the demonic spiritual space of the New Age, as it has many “access points” for which to further move the person/group further away from God.

An “access point” is any form of media (movies, shows, books, podcasts, etc.), speakers, or events that a person gives license to in their minds.  Basically, you’re giving the Devil a foothold by the things you are taking in, via your senses.  There are hundreds of thousands of access points within the New Age movement that will appeal to anyone.

I can tell you from experience that the Christian/church I encountered that said “I (we) won’t fall for that” were the FIRST to fall, as they have set themselves up in some way, shape, or form, as a god.  By today’s standards, the body of Christ is “low hanging fruit” for the experienced deceiver to pluck, to which I was one.  God, through His Word, tells us to be vigilant against such things.


If the text above was too long to read just watch the video in few minutes it summarizes everything you need to know about deception in the today's churches through infiltration and stealth by occultists.
I hope it helps you realize that in modern day and times better to be in solidarity and trust your own instinct/guts. Amen to you friend. Be vigilant and alert!

Do they often approach you after church? Take you out on a treat/meal to eat then start to ask very personal things about your life? RED FLAG

Careful of wolves in sheep's skin and demons there. An ex-church elder just revealed it in his testimony to the public that such secret cults/groups EXIST in the very safe place you ever think you can trust your worries/ask for help - The CHURCH

This post has been edited by petpenyubobo: Apr 21 2023, 10:31 PM
SUSsomewhataut
post Apr 21 2023, 11:30 PM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 21 2023, 10:17 PM)
As a unknown friend across the screen which I might not know you in life, I advise you to take precaution and be careful of committing yourself to new age church movements, cults and secret societies of today.

When in church when people approach you in a very friendly manner like a close friend, a brother or fatherly figure to you when they try to get close to you with personal and sensitive questions always doubt prevent and be alert.

The New Age Movement, Churches, & Christians
https://robertwimer.com/the-new-age-movemen...hes-christians/

Are You Targetted/Chosen?


A testimony from an ex New Age Occultist who serves a church disguised as a church leader/elder/committee to recruit others:
If the text above was too long to read just watch the video in few minutes it summarizes everything you need to know about deception in the today's churches through infiltration and stealth by occultists.
I hope it helps you realize that in modern day and times better to be in solidarity and trust your own instinct/guts. Amen to you friend. Be vigilant and alert!

Do they often approach you after church? Take you out on a treat/meal to eat then start to ask very personal things about your life? RED FLAG

Careful of wolves in sheep's skin and demons there. An ex-church elder just revealed it in his testimony to the public that such secret cults/groups EXIST in the very safe place you ever think you can trust your worries/ask for help - The CHURCH
*
First of all will I potentially get into trouble by exposing this much here? Is me believing in the chosen one (anointed/selected by god), a result of them setting up the environment to deceive me into believing that? As described in the video

What is the purpose of giving me good job and protect me from sabotages? Is this blessing from god or a plot to something? I do need the job and the protection, am i risking that?

my super nice colleagues and course mates? They are protecting me from any potentially negative situation, why? In what way they are involved? Are they blessing or from the new age?

Can I trust my parents and siblings? I’m looking to buy an expensive car, They oppose my decision, should I take their advice or follow my instinct as you have said?

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post Apr 22 2023, 12:02 AM

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QUOTE(somewhataut @ Apr 21 2023, 11:30 PM)
First of all will I potentially get into trouble by exposing this much here? Is me believing in the chosen one (anointed/selected by god), a result of them setting up the environment to deceive me into believing that? As described in the video

What is the purpose of giving me good job and protect me from sabotages? Is this blessing from god or a plot to something? I do need the job and the protection, am i risking that?

my super nice colleagues and course mates? They are protecting me from any potentially negative situation, why? In what way they are involved? Are they blessing or from the new age?

Can I trust my parents and siblings? I’m looking to buy an expensive car, They oppose my decision, should I take their advice or follow my instinct as you have said?
*
Does your church know your forum account? Did you tell anyone else?

Trust your parents that's the number 1 priority, they're your only parents in this life only for once. That's the 5th of the 10th Commandments.

Next are your colleagues and course mates, are they from the same church? Are they mirroring and reinforcing the same promise as the person who told you that you're among the Chosen? IF yes, then you're almost surely in a cult church without knowing.

God blesses all his children unconditionally. He doesn't need to bribe his disciples to follow him. Only the devil bribes to win people over.

Trust your instinct, if you think it's a burden to buy an expensive car and you feel it's unnecessary then humbly explain to your parents about your concerns. Tell them your job is still not stable and your salary is not enough to take a loan yet.
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post Apr 22 2023, 02:33 AM

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QUOTE(somewhataut @ Apr 21 2023, 11:30 PM)
First of all will I potentially get into trouble by exposing this much here? Is me believing in the chosen one (anointed/selected by god), a result of them setting up the environment to deceive me into believing that? As described in the video

What is the purpose of giving me good job and protect me from sabotages? Is this blessing from god or a plot to something? I do need the job and the protection, am i risking that?

my super nice colleagues and course mates? They are protecting me from any potentially negative situation, why? In what way they are involved? Are they blessing or from the new age?

Can I trust my parents and siblings? I’m looking to buy an expensive car, They oppose my decision, should I take their advice or follow my instinct as you have said?
*
No one should be able to tell you how you chose to live your life, unless you chose to commit to your church leader in mentorship. I don't know what chosen one is, as a person coming from roman catholic church and christian churches. I don't trust church people, we are all sinners, no one is perfect. But looks like you know too much so they wanna rope you in and give you a responsibility to feel you're part of them.
prophetjul
post Apr 22 2023, 06:39 AM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 22 2023, 12:02 AM)
Does your church know your forum account? Did you tell anyone else?

Trust your parents that's the number 1 priority, they're your only parents in this life only for once. That's the 5th of the 10th Commandments.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
Surprised to see you here. And posting Christian advice.
You the one who posted reincarnation as a lost doctrine of the Christians?
And other seemingly contentiously anti Christ posts?

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Apr 22 2023, 06:50 AM
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post Apr 22 2023, 07:46 AM

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QUOTE(paogiv3r @ Apr 22 2023, 02:33 AM)
No one should be able to tell you how you chose to live your life, unless you chose to commit to your church leader in mentorship. I don't know what chosen one is, as a person coming from roman catholic church and christian churches. I don't trust church people, we are all sinners, no one is perfect. But looks like you know too much so they wanna rope you in and give you a responsibility to feel you're part of them.
*
Knows too much ? Nah, nope not a damn thing. Read carefully and it's contradictions everywhere. More like confused instead of a chosen one, or maybe trying to sow the seed of doubt among Christians.
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post Apr 22 2023, 08:37 AM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 22 2023, 12:02 AM)
Does your church know your forum account? Did you tell anyone else?

Trust your parents that's the number 1 priority, they're your only parents in this life only for once. That's the 5th of the 10th Commandments.

Next are your colleagues and course mates, are they from the same church? Are they mirroring and reinforcing the same promise as the person who told you that you're among the Chosen? IF yes, then you're almost surely in a cult church without knowing.

God blesses all his children unconditionally. He doesn't need to bribe his disciples to follow him. Only the devil bribes to win people over.

Trust your instinct, if you think it's a burden to buy an expensive car and you feel it's unnecessary then humbly explain to your parents about your concerns. Tell them your job is still not stable and your salary is not enough to take a loan yet.
*
They know everything I do, just that I simply don’t care, they always react to what I did yesterday in private and even my thoughts, my lowyat activitivites will not be a secret to them, I thought you already knew.

They are not even Christian, unless they all pretending. I was jobless, even when I have a job I get sabotaged and scapegoated till I lose my job, but now I’m given a good job, and good colleagues, my part time master course mate and supervisor are all good, I can tell they are protecting me from all the potentially negative scenarios, what is happening here? Will they take it away for exposing them here

They are always mirroring, that’s why I asked whether me being ‘chosen by god’ is just them setting up the environment just I change my behaviour from complete atheist to spiritual?

Is my singleness their doing? Why? I used to easily get date, now I can’t get anyone, even when I do I only get fat ones. And I myself is getting fat ever since I got this job, same like the China girl who expressed anger against the ccp for mind controlling and be given a meaningless job at local gov, she got fat too and she’s under surveillance all the time

Will I get a girlfriend under this game they are playing?

Is my loss of sex drive also their doing? Or is it god’s doing to protect me from sexual sins? How can I reverse my loss of sex drive?

This post has been edited by somewhataut: Apr 22 2023, 08:52 AM
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post Apr 22 2023, 08:50 AM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 21 2023, 08:14 PM)
Here are some advice if you suspect yourself being a TI or being gang stalked.
https://proclivitysprinciplewisdom.medium.c...do-8add497d45d4

The ancient writers of the Bible were well informed about being "gang stalked".

The article writes:
As comparative literature to the recorded research regarding the phenomenon in the Book of Job, we can illustrate how “the Satan”, provoking God regarding his faithful follower Job, by saying to him; “Have not you yourself put up a hedge about him and about his house and about everything that he has all around? The work of his hands you have blessed, and his livestock itself has spread abroad in the earth. But, for a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch everything he has [and see] whether he will not curse you to your very face [Job 1:10–11].” So, what does God do, he allows Satan to torment Job just to see whether or not Job’s “free-will” might be changed. Job is transformed through the enforcement of purposeful loss of property and children by Satan as well as made to sacrifice through physical pain and suffering (torture) his health and wealth, reduced to a shadow of his former self for the purpose of change.As a result, Job becomes angry at God for punishing him for no good reason. Similar to how the TI feels about being mandated to sacrifice and lose through the physical pain of torture in the absence of any good reason. Of course, this theory makes the GAME OF THE TARGETED INDIVIDUAL highly unorthodox, inhumane, and illegal.

Your solutions? Since you cannot directly stop the invisible stalking and harassments,

1) You can temporarily or permanently change your physical location by leaving your property/environment.

2) Avoid doing things which gives you a bad impression of you like taking mental control drugs, alcohol or indulge in bad image activities such as adultery/non marriage sex.

3) Keep a journal close to you. Write every event you do everyday for record. If anything bad happens to you or some accident takes place make sure it gets to the hands of your closest family member safely.

4)Most importantly, stay alert, keep calm and never question your sanity. Things like this are authentic and happen daily to innocent people, perhaps even people you know. And do what is necessary to remain resilient in the face of this abuse.
*
The article only made an comparison to the book of job, he never said we are really being tested by satan, so are we in job’s position or not

Regarding the solution
1) I moved from johor to kl to Johor to Singapore, it never stop throughout my journey, it was most intense in kl and sg

2) unfortunately I have done all of these, I am being medicated for depression, I had non marriage sex, and they do know, but I don’t care, they are also preventing me from getting a partner, what can I do? When the damage is already done. It started 2016, from 2016 to 2020 all I get were favour and protection although I felt surveiled, it was 2021 when I had immoral sex then everything went downhill, everybody hates me I get sabotaged at work

3) what accident? If I’m not wrong they are not allowed to harm me in this game

4) my family never believed me, they are the one who pushed me to psychiatrist, I’m only getting diagnosed as depressed instead of schizophrenic because I never tell my doctor about all these, can I still trust my parents? They were also the one who pushed me to get a vaccine in 2016, do people do that? Is it normal? All of these started after that vaccine in 2016, there’s a microchip in there? How do they track my location and even thoughts
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post Apr 22 2023, 08:58 AM

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QUOTE(paogiv3r @ Apr 22 2023, 02:33 AM)
No one should be able to tell you how you chose to live your life, unless you chose to commit to your church leader in mentorship. I don't know what chosen one is, as a person coming from roman catholic church and christian churches. I don't trust church people, we are all sinners, no one is perfect. But looks like you know too much so they wanna rope you in and give you a responsibility to feel you're part of them.
*
I did not do anything, I made a few comments about the harm of government surveillance, I also said something about communism, and also against theism, not sure if those had anything to do with it

Most likely I get selected because of my loner tendency

2018 I got approached by a few Caucasians from church, before they approached me I saw my faculty people pointing me and said “there him”, not sure if that had anything to do with it

According to the game theory shared just now, the goal of this game is to elicit a response, forcing a change of behaviour, they could be trying to change me from a loner to not-loner, or change me from atheist to theist knowing that I was a hardcore atheist so they saw it as a challenge
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post Apr 22 2023, 09:41 AM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 21 2023, 07:32 PM)
What you described is called being a Targeted Individual (TI) which is almost unheard of in Malaysia but it's very real among secret societies and underground officials.
Look up the term in Google.

I believe in what you're trying to express there and very true that secret societies do exists in traditional old churches, the RCC as well as modern day charismatic Pentecostal churches. It existed for many centuries among the Romans to gather sensitive intelligence from the public and control societies. Among them the Illuminati and Masons. The idea actually originated from the Jews who are the Fathers of COMMUNISM as it was derived from the Babylonian Talmud teachings among their tribes. The method was created to ensure that no rumors or hidden secrets could get out of their tribe back in the history. No stones are left unturned and no betrayers among their community.

Psychopaths, narcissists and power hungry people often dwell in communions where the public socializes. It makes churches and religion a very suitable choice for them to spread their influences, spy among the communities for rumors/inside news and mingle among the crowd.

You cannot put your full TRUST among society especially during the end times as warned in the Bible. The term of "Wolves in sheep skin" is very real. Solidarity and discernment through experience helps identify people whom you cannot trust despite them having very clean, humble and reputable image. The Bible again warns us in 2 Corinthians Chapter 11 that Satan presents himself to you as an angel of light to catch you off guard. He deceives and so are his followers who also may present themselves as saints, reputable faces, prominent figures but are devils in disguise all out to get you into trouble and make your life difficult.

There are 18 versus in the Bible which warns and tells us that in the days of end times it is advisable to be vigilant and live in solidarity(avoid socializing too much) among society except  turst only your closest family members by "Escaping to The Mountains". https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Escaping-To-Mountains
1 Peter Chapter 5 says the devil prowls like a roaring lion which in today's society he is among your anyone in society it could be your best friends, a church leader/elder, a highly popular figure/face which has very high approval from public, the nicest person on the outer appearance but beware.

I am here to give you HOPE that you're NOT ALONE being stalked and intimidated by this secret groups of people. The more ALONE you are with no support of friends/families the deeper your FEAR will get yourself into until you might be driven into insanity if you're not strong willed. Wherever you are try to move to a new place or city for a new life.
*
Targeted individual was the very first term I investigated when it first started. It mostly had nothing to do with religion but government surveillance using covert technology
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post Apr 22 2023, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 22 2023, 06:39 AM)
Surprised to see you here. And posting Christian advice.
You the one who posted reincarnation as a lost doctrine of the Christians?
And other seemingly contentiously anti Christ posts?
*
1) I questioned the idea of reincarnation and the removal of its existence in Christianity doctrines by the Roman Empire during Emperor Justinian times to impose absolute obedience of its people towards the religion he controlled.
He only wanted his people to belief that there's only 1 chance in your entire lifetime to redeem your sins and to go to heaven. Scholars say the idea of it was to to seek control over his citizens and the only way to salvation was to go through his established Church under the Emperor's command.

2) Also I asked about Christ's real appearance, His complexion, His background and origins of his birthplace.

and How is that deemed anti Christ?
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post Apr 22 2023, 12:01 PM

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QUOTE(somewhataut @ Apr 22 2023, 08:37 AM)
They know everything I do, just that I simply don’t care, they always react to what I did yesterday in private and even my thoughts, my lowyat activitivites will not be a secret to them, I thought you already knew.

They are not even Christian, unless they all pretending. I was jobless, even when I have a job I get sabotaged and scapegoated till I lose my job, but now I’m given a good job, and good colleagues, my part time master course mate and supervisor are all good, I can tell they are protecting me from all the potentially negative scenarios, what is happening here? Will they take it away for exposing them here

They are always mirroring, that’s why I asked whether me being ‘chosen by god’ is just them setting up the environment just I change my behaviour from complete atheist to spiritual?

Is my singleness their doing? Why? I used to easily get date, now I can’t get anyone, even when I do I only get fat ones. And I myself is getting fat ever since I got this job, same like the China girl who expressed anger against the ccp for mind controlling and be given a meaningless job at local gov, she got fat too and she’s under surveillance all the time

Will I get a girlfriend under this game they are playing?

Is my loss of sex drive also their doing? Or is it god’s doing to protect me from sexual sins? How can I reverse my loss of sex drive?
*
Sound very cult-like there.

I share with you my past experience too when I was younger more than 15 years back.

My past was very similar to you. Always very troubled, so many hardships faced. Then one day a group of friends lured me into attending some megachurch. They offered me all kinds of rewards and told me that my destiny was fated to be blessed by God. The kind of prosperity gospel they preached. Soon prominent figures came to offer me jobs/opportunities, offered me to test drive their luxurious cars and told me their extravagant lives was also bestowed to me if I joined them. It was so tempting but luckily humility, sanity and wisdom pulled me back from falling into the trap of bondages and oaths. They started giving me all the cold treatment and ignored me after that. Some of them not too happy about my decision gave me hell at work and spread hate all over my workplace, my circle of friends, my relatives and all over my life existence trying to make me look like a delinquent or problematic individual /mental case.

Learn to move on in life, get out of the current toxic place where you are, seek simplicity and be thankful of your life which God gave you. It might not be significant for you to feel meaningful but you will soon leave all the bad past and forgive that held you in the past. Do not let the past drag you moving forward.

Remember also this advise, the more knowledge gain the more sorrowful you'd become. That's why Jesus like children and everyone which thinks simple minded like them.

Mark 10:13-16 NKJV
Then they brought little children to Him, that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked those who brought them. 14 But when Jesus saw it, He was greatly displeased and said to them, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God. 15 Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.” 16 And He took them up in His arms, laid His hands on them, and blessed them.

QUOTE(somewhataut @ Apr 22 2023, 09:41 AM)
Targeted individual was the very first term I investigated when it first started. It mostly had nothing to do with religion but government surveillance using covert technology
*
For centuries religion has always been part of government/politicians/elites/rich covert to control the masses. Not to say all but majority of them are coverts. It has been for centuries even as far as ancient Greek and Roman times.
I'm not saying all governments are involved but you have powerful establishments of influential/affluent people/families which control significant portions of a place's economy/monopoly will also wants to get their hand into religion.

It's all about society control of the masses.

They'd lure you into their group using baits and bribes like job opportunities, wealth, awards, worldly materials and fame. That's just the beginning.

The problem occurs later in your life when you discover of your manipulation and want out. That is when you start to become a Targeted Individual(TI) by the organization/powerful establishment. That's when the problem STARTS. Secret societies/cults don't like whistleblowers/ex-members going out exposing them. They'll seek to end your existence or destroy your life through powerful connections/influence. I pray that you do not fall into this bondage and seek a simple/humble life of fulfillment. Do not envy others and be thankful to God for being alive and free from debt when you wake up from bed daily.

This post has been edited by petpenyubobo: Apr 22 2023, 12:07 PM
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post Apr 22 2023, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 22 2023, 12:01 PM)
Sound very cult-like there.

I share with you my past experience too when I was younger more than 15 years back.

My past was very similar to you. Always very troubled, so many hardships faced. Then one day a group of friends lured me into attending some megachurch. They offered me all kinds of rewards and told me that my destiny was fated to be blessed by God. The kind of prosperity gospel they preached. Soon prominent figures came to offer me jobs/opportunities, offered me to test drive their luxurious cars and told me their extravagant lives was also bestowed to me if I joined them. It was so tempting but luckily humility, sanity and wisdom pulled me back from falling into the trap of bondages and oaths. They started giving me all the cold treatment and ignored me after that. Some of them not too happy about my decision gave me hell at work and spread hate all over my workplace, my circle of friends, my relatives and all over my life existence trying to make me look like a delinquent or problematic individual /mental case.

Learn to move on in life, get out of the current toxic place where you are, seek simplicity and be thankful of your life which God gave you. It might not be significant for you to feel meaningful but you will soon leave all the bad past and forgive that held you in the past. Do not let the past drag you moving forward.

Remember also this advise, the more knowledge gain the more sorrowful you'd become. That's why Jesus like children and everyone which thinks simple minded like them.

Mark 10:13-16 NKJV
Then they brought little children to Him, that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked those who brought them. 14 But when Jesus saw it, He was greatly displeased and said to them, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God. 15 Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.” 16 And He took them up in His arms, laid His hands on them, and blessed them.
For centuries religion has always been part of government/politicians/elites/rich covert to control the masses. Not to say all but majority of them are coverts. It has been for centuries even as far as ancient Greek and Roman times.
I'm not saying all governments are involved but you have powerful establishments of influential/affluent people/families which control significant portions of a place's economy/monopoly will also wants to get their hand into religion.

It's all about society control of the masses.

They'd lure you into their group using baits and bribes like job opportunities, wealth, awards, worldly materials and fame. That's just the beginning.

The problem occurs later in your life when you discover of your manipulation and want out. That is when you start to become a Targeted Individual(TI) by the organization/powerful establishment. That's when the problem STARTS. Secret societies/cults don't like whistleblowers/ex-members going out exposing them. They'll seek to end your existence or destroy your life through powerful connections/influence. I pray that you do not fall into this bondage and seek a simple/humble life of fulfillment. Do not envy others and be thankful to God for being alive and free from debt when you wake up from bed daily.
*
You mentioned that I cannot stop the game directly, I can only mitigate

Does that mean I will never be allowed to date anyone under their spell?
SUSpetpenyubobo
post Apr 22 2023, 02:28 PM

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QUOTE(somewhataut @ Apr 22 2023, 02:12 PM)
You mentioned that I cannot stop the game directly, I can only mitigate

Does that mean I will never be allowed to date anyone under their spell?
*
I don't recall saying anything about dating others?

Yes, mitigate. You can't really stop a legion of sociopaths/psychopaths who are convince to eliminate you in their circle/club when you want out. That is the nature of herd mentality of humans. That' is how cults, secret societies and the underground works. Not just religion but also in gangsterism brotherhood as such.

Once you're a caste away in your town/current place, the establishment/members/cults will be reminded about you from generation after generation through gossips, talks and rumors about you. From the workplace, to your church, to your neighbors, public everywhere. Worst is that you're placed under medication which you've mentioned earlier. Most will not trust you once they are aware that you're under medication.

But don't blame your parents who brought you to this life. They're your closest trusted ones which wants everything good for their child. My best advise to you is to start a new life outside this troubled place which you're currently based.
Wherever you go and whatever you do live a simple and debt free life. Don't make your life complicated or seek high ambitions. For such saying by King Solomon says everything in the material world is VANITY.

There are many of the richest people who fell in their life and discovered the true meaning of life. They repented or chose to live their lives in solidarity as monks instead of getting continually tortured by materialism/struggles/competition in life.

Ecclesiastes: The Bible Explained



Ecclesiastes in 7 Minutes
Wisest man known to be in existence, King of the Greatest nation on earth back in history, King Solomon born through adultery with his half brother wanted to murder his dad.



Proverbs and Song of Solomon were written at his peak, Ecclesiastes were believed to be written towards his later years of repentance after he fell.

This post has been edited by petpenyubobo: Apr 22 2023, 02:46 PM
SUSsomewhataut
post Apr 22 2023, 04:17 PM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 22 2023, 02:28 PM)
I don't recall saying anything about dating others?

Yes, mitigate. You can't really stop a legion of sociopaths/psychopaths who are convince to eliminate you in their circle/club when you want out. That is the nature of herd mentality of humans. That' is how cults, secret societies and the underground works. Not just religion but also in gangsterism brotherhood as such.

Once you're a caste away in your town/current place, the establishment/members/cults will be reminded about you from generation after generation through gossips, talks and rumors about you. From the workplace, to your church, to your neighbors, public everywhere. Worst is that you're placed under medication which you've mentioned earlier. Most will not trust you once they are aware that you're under medication.

But don't blame your parents who brought you to this life. They're your closest trusted ones which wants everything good for their child. My best advise to you is to start a new life outside this troubled place which you're currently based.
Wherever you go and whatever you do live a simple and debt free life. Don't make your life complicated or seek high ambitions. For such saying by King Solomon says everything in the material world is VANITY.

There are many of the richest people who fell in their life and discovered the true meaning of life. They repented or chose to live their lives in solidarity as monks instead of getting continually tortured by materialism/struggles/competition in life.

Ecclesiastes: The Bible Explained



Ecclesiastes in 7 Minutes
Wisest man known to be in existence, King of the Greatest nation on earth back in history, King Solomon born through adultery with his half brother wanted to murder his dad.



Proverbs and Song of Solomon were written at his peak, Ecclesiastes were believed to be written towards his later years of repentance after he fell.
*
But they are not eliminating me, i was jobless and miserable because my career reputation is destroyed, they gave me good job now, what do they want from me?

Why I never been able to find matches since 2021? Is it because of the sexual sin?

SUSsomewhataut
post Apr 22 2023, 05:36 PM

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QUOTE(somewhataut @ Apr 22 2023, 04:17 PM)
But they are not eliminating me, i was jobless and miserable because my career reputation is destroyed, they gave me good job now, what do they want from me?

Why I never been able to find matches since 2021? Is it because of the sexual sin?
*
I have just one question to the new age cult leaders/deep state/secret societies/satan/god

Will I get a girlfriend? If no I end my life right here, all the job and money mean nothing to me without relationship, nothing matters anymore

I give myself 2 months , if no girlfriend by then then I end the game by death

I went from easily 2-3 dates per month to absolute zero, how is that even possible, what amount of control they have

is it they use facial recognition to detect my account?

This post has been edited by somewhataut: Apr 22 2023, 05:50 PM
SUSpetpenyubobo
post Apr 22 2023, 06:08 PM

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QUOTE(somewhataut @ Apr 22 2023, 04:17 PM)
But they are not eliminating me, i was jobless and miserable because my career reputation is destroyed, they gave me good job now, what do they want from me?

Why I never been able to find matches since 2021? Is it because of the sexual sin?
*
The traits of all cults and secret societies are similar. To expand and to spread their influences. The more on their side the more powerful their sect will be.

What do they want in return from you? The same as how they recruited you to help them in recruiting others youths and potential targets in future. Be warned however that there is only one way in and no way out once you get committed. For their policy is only a dead man can keep secrets meaning they'll make you a "Targeted Individual" for character assassination.

When you want out in future or you realize about your manipulation wanting to repent it is often too late and is almost impossible to reverse things.

QUOTE(somewhataut @ Apr 22 2023, 05:36 PM)
I have just one question to the new age cult leaders/deep state/secret societies/satan/god

Will I get a girlfriend? If no I end my life right here, all the job and money mean nothing to me without relationship, nothing matters anymore

I give myself 2 months , if no girlfriend by then then I end the game by death

I went from easily 2-3 dates per month to absolute zero, how is that even possible, what amount of control they have

is it they use facial recognition to detect my account?
*
Don't get obsessed about finding a soul mate that much let fate does its course. King Solomon had around 700 wives and it destroyed his life entirely until he repented towards his last days. Despite scoring that much with women he regretted entirely at the end of his life.

Also my brother in faith and friend, do away your thoughts about taking your own life. There is so much more things to look forward to in life than to end it meaninglessly without putting in your full effort in life to achieve your dreams. It's like dying the coward way for taking short cuts before doing your best aimlessly. When you feel like you're doing your best but not getting anywhere please look elsewhere or try something different. Do not lament on your pass or failures because it's one way God is telling you that the current things you're doing is not suitable for you.

Try something different, look elsewhere, seek people who can talk your lingo and have similar mindset as you. icon_idea.gif

user posted image

This post has been edited by petpenyubobo: Apr 22 2023, 06:12 PM
Hobbez
post Apr 22 2023, 07:23 PM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 22 2023, 11:30 AM)
1) I questioned the idea of reincarnation and the removal of its existence in Christianity doctrines by the Roman Empire during Emperor Justinian times to impose absolute obedience of its people towards the religion he controlled.
He only wanted his people to belief that there's only 1 chance in your entire lifetime to redeem your sins and to go to heaven. Scholars say the idea of it was to to seek control over his citizens and the only way to salvation was to go through his established Church under the Emperor's command.

2) Also I asked about Christ's real appearance, His complexion, His background and origins of his birthplace.

and How is that deemed anti Christ?
*
You don't even believe that pigs are (rightly and scientifically proven) not good for human consumption, and that is why the Bible said not to eat pigs, yet you are here. dry.gif
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post Apr 22 2023, 07:26 PM

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QUOTE(Hobbez @ Apr 22 2023, 07:23 PM)
You don't even believe that pigs are (rightly and scientifically proven) not good for human consumption, and that is why the Bible said not to eat pigs, yet you are here.  dry.gif
*
Back during the Biblical times there weren't cold storage facilities to store and preserve meat.
Hobbez
post Apr 22 2023, 07:40 PM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 22 2023, 07:26 PM)
Back during the Biblical times there weren't cold storage facilities to store and preserve meat.
*
Why other meats can eat, but not pigs?
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post Apr 22 2023, 07:44 PM

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QUOTE(Hobbez @ Apr 22 2023, 07:40 PM)
Why other meats can eat, but not pigs?
*
Are you quoting this statement from some dead prophet who exists hundreds or thousand years ago?

If yes then you're not living in current times.
Hobbez
post Apr 22 2023, 07:46 PM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 22 2023, 07:44 PM)
Are you quoting this statement from some dead prophet who exists hundreds or thousand years ago?

If yes then you're not living in current times.
*
If you cannot answer this, just say so lah. The Bible did not prohibit eating meat from other animals but pigs. Your explanation was they didn't have meat storage facilities.... doh.gif
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post Apr 22 2023, 07:52 PM

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QUOTE(Hobbez @ Apr 22 2023, 07:46 PM)
If you cannot answer this, just say so lah. The Bible did not prohibit eating meat from other animals but pigs. Your explanation was they didn't have meat storage facilities....  doh.gif
*
That speaks a lot of the Bible and its hypocrisy.

What Has The Bible Say Eating Pig
https://www.openbible.info/topics/eating_pig

Most Christians have been eating meat for their entire lives anything happened to them? laugh.gif




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post Apr 23 2023, 08:32 AM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 22 2023, 06:08 PM)
The traits of all cults and secret societies are similar. To expand and to spread their influences. The more on their side the more powerful their sect will be.

What do they want in return from you? The same as how they recruited you to help them in recruiting others youths and potential targets in future. Be warned however that there is only one way in and no way out once you get committed.  For their policy is only a dead man can keep secrets meaning they'll make you a "Targeted Individual" for character assassination.

When you want out in future or you realize about your manipulation wanting to repent it is often too late and is almost impossible to reverse things.
Don't get obsessed about finding a soul mate that much let fate does its course. King Solomon had around 700 wives and it destroyed his life entirely until he repented towards his last days. Despite scoring that much with women he regretted entirely at the end of his life.

Also my brother in faith and friend, do away your thoughts about taking your own life. There is so much more things to look forward to in life than to end it meaninglessly without putting in your full effort in life to achieve your dreams. It's like dying the coward way for taking short cuts before doing your best aimlessly. When you feel like you're doing your best but not getting anywhere please look elsewhere or try something different. Do not lament on your pass or failures because it's one way God is telling you that the current things you're doing is not suitable for you.

Try something different, look elsewhere, seek people who can talk your lingo and have similar mindset as you. icon_idea.gif

user posted image
*
I think they want me to remain single and they been doing things to make sure of it. they have control over dating apps and all of my electronic activities, because of this they can see who I’m seeing or talking and can sabotage from there

I remember last year I mentioned on the internet that I only want girl who are not fat, then suddenly all of my dating apps matches are fat, still are till now, it’s their way of ‘showing me’

I’m not sure if you can comprehend how powerful they are, they could’ve done far worse to eliminate me but they didn’t so they clearly want something from me, the infrastructure for a big brother surveillance is already here, they have control of every data possible, they might not manipulate in plain sight such as shutting down this thread, but they will manipulate in the dark such as making sure I only get bad matches, find out who I’m seeing and talking to to interfere with that persons perception of me. Not to mention the covert technology they possess that interfere with our minds.

Make sure you tel me if you are experiencing anything weird, if they find out you are having an impact on my perception of them, they might do things, or might not cuz they don’t want to be too obvious


TSunknown warrior
post Apr 23 2023, 01:29 PM

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Hi somewhataut and petpenyubobo,

Can I kindly request that we keep this Christian Fellowship thread back to Christian fellowship postings?

I believe your situation although is interesting and unique but it has nothing really to do with Christianity?

Thanks.

Perhaps somewhataut you can open a thread about your situation in RWI

https://forum.lowyat.net/RealWorldIssues


I think it's more suited there. Quite sure you will have more input there.






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post Apr 23 2023, 02:45 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 23 2023, 01:29 PM)
Hi somewhataut and petpenyubobo,

Can I kindly request that we keep this Christian Fellowship thread back to Christian fellowship postings?

I believe your situation although is interesting and unique but it has nothing really to do with Christianity?

Thanks.

Perhaps somewhataut you can open a thread about your situation in RWI

https://forum.lowyat.net/RealWorldIssues
I think it's more suited there. Quite sure you will have more input there.
*
I think they will punish me for doing that

I unintentionally brought up this topic by replying here

Opening a thread would be intentional

i was given a job after keeping silence for awhile, I don’t know what will happen now

It is relevant to Christianity, I will not talk further if You don’t want me to, just that this is the first I met a local who knows about this after so many years

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post Apr 23 2023, 07:51 PM

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QUOTE(somewhataut @ Apr 23 2023, 02:45 PM)
I think they will punish me for doing that

I unintentionally brought up this topic by replying here

Opening a thread would be intentional

i was given a job after keeping silence for awhile, I don’t know what will happen now

It is relevant to Christianity, I will not talk further if You don’t want me to, just that this is the first I met a local who knows about this after so many years
*
This will be my FINAL reply here in this topic and I hope you will seek the peace and answers after this.

There are 3 solutions I can suggest to you from the least intrusive to the most extreme.

1) Sought a company or group of friends outside your current cult/secret society who has similar experience or also victims of your kind. Build influence and support but always be careful of imposters from your cult who will betray you further down the line, they'll send pretenders to talk nice and get you to reveal so that they can double cross you. Always observe attentively of signs for a mole, offers to give you free meals, you very nice initially, try to relate with your problem but act weird, etc. Be vigilant.
Make as much friends outside or non members of your church who can relate or are in similar personal problems like you.

2) Move far away and to an unknown environment with no members from your cult/church.
Start a new life and make new group of friends around your age and interests. Do not get involved in religion anymore.

3) This is the most RADICAL and EXTREME option. Consider converting your FAITH/RELIGION
Since the beginning of time, humans are ADAPTABLE, SLICK and RELATE to OTHERS who can help them. Your enemy's enemy is your best friend.
We only require religion as a guidance in life. Don't let them threaten you about HELL and ETERNAL damnation. So the human has to be flexible to counter threats and get out of bondages.
By changing religion and converting to another FAITH, you will GAIN protection against your CULT, gain new opportunities to your career/life/friends, access to girls which you weren't able to mix with previously.
Only take this route as last resort.

I wish you the best in your future and hope my advices gives you some insight about the underground world and danger of getting too involved in religions which requires you to take secret oaths, commit your entire life and sell your SOUL.

Be brave and always be humble. Do not take on debt or take secret oaths which commits your soul without return. It was nice chatting with you. Best wishes.

This post has been edited by petpenyubobo: Apr 23 2023, 07:56 PM
prophetjul
post Apr 23 2023, 08:10 PM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 22 2023, 11:30 AM)
1) I questioned the idea of reincarnation and the removal of its existence in Christianity doctrines by the Roman Empire during Emperor Justinian times to impose absolute obedience of its people towards the religion he controlled.
He only wanted his people to belief that there's only 1 chance in your entire lifetime to redeem your sins and to go to heaven. Scholars say the idea of it was to to seek control over his citizens and the only way to salvation was to go through his established Church under the Emperor's command.

2) Also I asked about Christ's real appearance, His complexion, His background and origins of his birthplace.

and How is that deemed anti Christ?
*
Reincarnation is/was never taught by the Jewish sages.
You posted a presumptuous idea of it being removed without establishing the truth of reincarnation and Christian /Jewish doctrines.
That's being naughty/presumptuous /ignorant and smacks of anti Christ elements.
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post Apr 23 2023, 08:34 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 23 2023, 08:10 PM)
Reincarnation is/was never taught by the Jewish sages.
You posted a presumptuous idea of it being removed without establishing the truth of reincarnation and Christian /Jewish doctrines.
That's being naughty/presumptuous /ignorant and smacks of anti Christ elements.
*
Why Jewish knowledge of REINCARNATION was kept SECRET


How To Know If You Are A REINCARNATION


If you deny idea of reincarnation, then how will Christ return again to this world?

Reincarnation! Is it Biblical? You Won't Believe What I'm About To Tell You


John Was Elijah


The Roman emperor did not want someone who claimed that he was reincarnated of Jesus or past Kings who could challenged him. He wanted ABSOLUTE authority and the make his sect the only pathway to salvation to afterlife.
The entire idea was manipulated by human to control the masses.

desmond2020
post Apr 24 2023, 07:26 AM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 23 2023, 08:34 PM)
Why Jewish knowledge of REINCARNATION was kept SECRET


How To Know If You Are A REINCARNATION


If you deny idea of reincarnation, then how will Christ return again to this world?

Reincarnation! Is it Biblical? You Won't Believe What I'm About To Tell You


John Was Elijah


The Roman emperor did not want someone who claimed that he was reincarnated of Jesus or past Kings who could challenged him. He wanted ABSOLUTE authority and the make his sect the only pathway to salvation to afterlife.
The entire idea was manipulated by human to control the masses.
*
Even John is elijah, elijah was never death in the first place


Elijah and Enoch never see death. Get real lah
prophetjul
post Apr 24 2023, 09:21 AM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 23 2023, 08:34 PM)
Why Jewish knowledge of REINCARNATION was kept SECRET


How To Know If You Are A REINCARNATION


If you deny idea of reincarnation, then how will Christ return again to this world?

Reincarnation! Is it Biblical? You Won't Believe What I'm About To Tell You


John Was Elijah


The Roman emperor did not want someone who claimed that he was reincarnated of Jesus or past Kings who could challenged him. He wanted ABSOLUTE authority and the make his sect the only pathway to salvation to afterlife.
The entire idea was manipulated by human to control the masses.
*
So you dug up Youtubes to that topic.
What does that prove?

You don't even understand the spirit of Elijah?

Luke 1:14 And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth, 15 for he will be great before the Lord. And he must not drink wine or strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb. 16 And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God, 17 and he will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared.”

So since you imply John is an reincarnation of Elijah, was Jesus a reincarnation of Moses or anyone else? Deut 18:18

And while you are at it, who reincarnated as Mary, Peter and Paul?

And if reincarnation is true, why do we need the Messiah? There is nothing to save for God. Let the wheels of reincarnation rotate and no grace or mercy of God is required.
Why do have heaven when there is reincarnation?
Why do you need redemption of this corrupted creation when every thing goes through reincarnation.
Let it be. Cycle and recycle.

Reincarnation is ANTI MESSIAH!



This post has been edited by prophetjul: Apr 24 2023, 09:26 AM
SUSpetpenyubobo
post Apr 24 2023, 09:38 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Apr 24 2023, 07:26 AM)
Even John is elijah, elijah was never death in the first place
Elijah and Enoch never see death. Get real lah
*
How was Elijah ridiculously told by the Bible in the book of 2 Kings being brought up to heaven? A hurricane lifted him up there?

How did the Bible described Jesus ascension to heaven after His last supper? laugh.gif According to Luke wrote, they witness his ascension into the clouds
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascension_of_Jesus

user posted image

Ok back to reality, if Jesus was resurrected and came back to life met with his disciples before ascending to heaven once again after another 40 days. Then why would he still leave worldly traces which archeologists today are still desperately trying to dig up his tomb and collect any remains of his DNA to try resurrecting him by cloning? Why are they trying to figure out his face with the linen cloth that was used to cover his body after murdering him with the claims of the Shroud of Turin?

He was supposed to fly back to heaven how come his physical human trace still lying around for humans to do evil and trying to clone him? and if they managed to clone modern Jesus using modern science, don't you think that touches the theory of "reincarnation" again?
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post Apr 24 2023, 09:45 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 24 2023, 09:21 AM)
So you dug up Youtubes to that topic.
What does that prove?

You don't even understand the spirit of Elijah?

Luke 1:14 And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth, 15 for he will be great before the Lord. And he must not drink wine or strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb. 16 And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God, 17 and he will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared.”

So since you imply John is an reincarnation of Elijah, was Jesus a reincarnation of Moses or anyone else? Deut 18:18

And while you are at it, who reincarnated as Mary, Peter and Paul?

And if reincarnation is true, why do we need the Messiah?  There is nothing to save for God. Let the wheels of reincarnation rotate and no grace or mercy of God is required.
Why do have heaven when there is reincarnation?
Why do you need redemption of this  corrupted creation when every thing goes through reincarnation.
Let it be. Cycle and recycle.

Reincarnation is ANTI MESSIAH!
*
Ridiculing others of using YouTube is no different from quoting from modern day religious scholars with medals and accolades. They're are all human awarded titles and claims using the power of influence and money.
Every power hungry or elite will claim he/she is God chosen because of influence of power and money backing them. They can tell you miracle magic shows are the truth whether you believe it or not but never question them back because you're not their level to doubt your masters.



The video above arguments are very valid. So if my statements offended anyone please forgive me. I have my reasons to seek the truth by asking if there're any doubts that comes to me.



desmond2020
post Apr 24 2023, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 24 2023, 09:38 AM)
How was Elijah ridiculously told by the Bible in the book of 2 Kings being brought up to heaven? A hurricane lifted him up there?

How did the Bible described Jesus ascension to heaven after His last supper?  laugh.gif According to Luke wrote, they witness his ascension into the clouds
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascension_of_Jesus

user posted image

Ok back to reality, if Jesus was resurrected and came back to life met with his disciples before ascending to heaven once again after another 40 days. Then why would he still leave worldly traces which archeologists today are still desperately trying to dig up his tomb and collect any remains of his DNA to try resurrecting him by cloning? Why are they trying to figure out his face with the linen cloth that was used to cover his body after murdering him with the claims of the Shroud of Turin?

He was supposed to fly back to heaven how come his physical human trace still lying around for humans to do evil and trying to clone him? and if they managed to clone modern Jesus using modern science, don't you think that touches the theory of "reincarnation" again?
*
So dude, you try to use science to verify bible? It can't, because like ant can't see pass few inches pmof it's surrounding, science can't measure god

This post has been edited by desmond2020: Apr 24 2023, 09:53 AM
desmond2020
post Apr 24 2023, 09:52 AM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 24 2023, 09:45 AM)
Ridiculing others of using YouTube is no different from quoting from modern day religious scholars with medals and accolades. They're are all human awarded titles and claims using the power of influence and money.
Every power hungry or elite will claim he/she is God chosen because of influence of power and money backing them. They can tell you miracle magic shows are the truth whether you believe it or not but never question them back because you're not their level to doubt your masters.



The video above arguments are very valid. So if my statements offended anyone please forgive me. I have my reasons to seek the truth by asking if there're any doubts that comes to me.
*
YouTube are full of maniac like you. So their word is weight less than hot air
prophetjul
post Apr 24 2023, 09:57 AM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 24 2023, 09:45 AM)
Ridiculing others of using YouTube is no different from quoting from modern day religious scholars with medals and accolades. They're are all human awarded titles and claims using the power of influence and money.
Every power hungry or elite will claim he/she is God chosen because of influence of power and money backing them. They can tell you miracle magic shows are the truth whether you believe it or not but never question them back because you're not their level to doubt your masters.



The video above arguments are very valid. So if my statements offended anyone please forgive me. I have my reasons to seek the truth by asking if there're any doubts that comes to me.
*
If you want to find topics on any subject, you will find it.
The thing is is all these are INCONSISTENT with the main tenets of the scriptures, Jewish and Christian.
And again i say: If Reincarnation is True, the gospel of the Messiah is a lie.
There is no need of a Messiah to save us from our sins if reincarnation is true.
ALL the main tenets of God, Christology, Salvation, eschatology, JUDGEMENT et all can be dumped into the bin.

That is YOUR challenge.

A simple illustration:

QUOTE
One straightforward statement that speaks directly to the idea of reincarnation is found in Hebrews 9:27-28: “And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many” Without any vague terms, the writer of Hebrews explains that the general course of man’s existence is to taste death only once, and then be judged based on the actions that were accomplished in that one life. In order to underscore the number of times a person dies, the inspired writer declared that men die the same number of times that Christ was offered on the cross—only once. Such a statement goes a long way to prove that the Bible does not teach for reincarnation. (This verse deals with the generality of man’s existence, and excludes miraculous situations, where Christ, an apostle, or a prophet raised someone from the dead.)

Another biblical passage that militates against the idea of reincarnation is found in Luke 16:19-31. In this passage, Jesus told a story in which a poor man named Lazarus, and a rich man, both died. The Bible explains that Lazarus died and “was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom” (16:22), but the rich went to “torments in Hades” (16:23). The text further states that the rich man “lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off and Lazarus in his bosom” (16:23). Here we have three men who once lived upon the Earth but have died, yet we do not see their souls or spirits reinhabiting some earthly body. Instead, we see the three men—Lazarus, Abraham, and the rich man—in a fully cognizant state in the realm of the dead, separate and apart from any earthly ties. In fact, the rich man begs Abraham to send Lazarus back to Earth to warn his brothers, but Abraham refuses. Therefore, if Lazarus had died, and his soul no longer was on Earth, then he could not have been reincarnated to another earthly body or person. Furthermore, Abraham’s presence in this “realm of the dead” shows that Abraham had not been reincarnated either.


https://apologeticspress.org/reincarnation-...the-bible-1248/
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post Apr 24 2023, 10:05 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Apr 24 2023, 09:51 AM)
So dude, you try to use science to verify bible? It can't, because like ant can't see pass few inches pmof  it's surrounding, science can't measure god
*
If you don't, then how your Biblical scholars and funded archeologists that dug up historical sites claiming evidences of Jesus use? laugh.gif

QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Apr 24 2023, 09:52 AM)
YouTube are full of maniac like you. So their word is weight less than hot air
*
Sure says the religious fanatics. Everything not pleasing to them is wrong and everyone who argues with them are labelled demons. Only their scholars and religious title holders are God chosen to tell the truth in everything.
The blood and power hungry Roman emperors and past medieval kings were all Saints. notworthy.gif

This post has been edited by petpenyubobo: Apr 24 2023, 10:09 AM
SUSpetpenyubobo
post Apr 24 2023, 10:17 AM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Apr 24 2023, 09:57 AM)
If you want to find topics on any subject, you will find it.
The thing is is all these are INCONSISTENT with the main tenets of the scriptures, Jewish and Christian.
And again i say: If Reincarnation is True, the gospel of the Messiah is a lie.
There is no need of a Messiah to save us from our sins if reincarnation is true.
ALL the main tenets of God, Christology, Salvation, eschatology, JUDGEMENT et all can be dumped into the bin.

That is YOUR challenge.

A simple illustration:
https://apologeticspress.org/reincarnation-...the-bible-1248/
*
The Bible is full of quotes of men and their writing claims. What gives them more authority over others that they can't be doubted and challenged when people don't agree with them? In the earlier days blasphemy and condemnation meets anyone who defy them are met with death for defying laws.

The MESSIAH will return to save you when he is reincarnated. Even Jesus has to be born into this world by human mother to become the Son of God. He did not came straight from the heaven as a fully grown adult to save men as he ascended to heaven the other way around.

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post Apr 24 2023, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 24 2023, 10:17 AM)
The Bible is full of quotes of men and their writing claims. What gives them more authority over others that they can't be doubted and challenged when people don't agree with them? In the earlier days blasphemy and condemnation meets anyone who defy them are met with death for defying laws.

The MESSIAH will return to save you when he is reincarnated. Even Jesus has to be born into this world by human mother to become the Son of God. He did not came straight from the heaven as a fully grown adult to save men as he ascended to heaven the other way around.
*
The prophets of old who wrote the inspired revelations of God's messiah were recognised as men in the Jewish community and then nation of Israel to be God's mouth pieces.
Prophets like Moses, David, Isaiah etc were accepted as proven prophets of God and their writings deemed as inspired of God.
And indeed, their writings had ONE central theme: God's MESSIAH who will save His people from their sins.

" The MESSIAH will return to save you when he is reincarnated" You do understand the idea of reincarnation?
Just to avoid doubt: reincarnation is the “rebirth of the soul in another body.”
Where/when if Jesus rebirth in another body?

And i hope you understand INCARNATION of God of which you just described.
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post Apr 25 2023, 09:25 AM

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Hi petpenyubobo.

Sorry but in Christianity there is no reincarnation.

Not recorded and neither taught by anyone in scripture, more so by God.

You have been given just this life and just this body. After you die, your spirit will meet God for judgement.

* Yes I know you don't believe in this, which is why I kindly request , let there be no argument on this.

This place is solely for Christian postings. Not religious argument.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Apr 25 2023, 09:29 AM
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post Apr 27 2023, 10:03 PM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 23 2023, 07:51 PM)
This will be my FINAL reply here in this topic and I hope you will seek the peace and answers after this.

There are 3 solutions I can suggest to you from the least intrusive to the most extreme.

1) Sought a company or group of friends outside your current cult/secret society who has similar experience or also victims of your kind. Build influence and support but always be careful of imposters from your cult who will betray you further down the line, they'll send pretenders to talk nice and get you to reveal so that they can double cross you. Always observe attentively of signs for a mole, offers to give you free meals, you very nice initially, try to relate with your problem but act weird, etc. Be vigilant.
Make as much friends outside or non members of your church who can relate or are in similar personal problems like you.

2) Move far away and to an unknown environment with no members from your cult/church.
Start a new life and make new group of friends around your age and interests. Do not get involved in religion anymore.

3) This is the most RADICAL and EXTREME option. Consider converting your FAITH/RELIGION
Since the beginning of time, humans are ADAPTABLE, SLICK and RELATE to OTHERS who can help them. Your enemy's enemy is your best friend.
We only require religion as a guidance in life. Don't let them threaten you about HELL and ETERNAL damnation. So the human has to be flexible to counter threats and get out of bondages.
By changing religion and converting to another FAITH, you will GAIN protection against your CULT, gain new opportunities to your career/life/friends, access to girls which you weren't able to mix with previously.
Only take this route as last resort.

I wish you the best in your future and hope my advices gives you some insight about the underground world and danger of getting too involved in religions which requires you to take secret oaths, commit your entire life and sell your SOUL.

Be brave and always be humble. Do not take on debt or take secret oaths which commits your soul without return. It was nice chatting with you. Best wishes.
*
actually how sure are you about trusting family

it becomes increasingly difficult to trust my mother, not only she was the one who pushed me to seek psychiatry help, everything i told her my colleagues seem to know and they use the information to gaslight me, makes me wonder whether my family member(s) are involved

they selectively react to the information i shared in private, it appears that they are getting the information from a particular source and it gets filtered by that source so they only receive intel that fits the source's agenda

or they are simply cherry picking content they want to use to gaslight me

none of them reacted to my lowyat post so far, i highly doubt that they are unaware of my lowyat activities considering the depth of surveillance they've been pulling

but they do react to the my conversation with my mother in private, strange

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Apr 30 2023, 03:22 PM
This post has been deleted by unknown warrior because: Irrelevant to Christian Fellowship.

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post Apr 29 2023, 04:45 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 25 2023, 09:25 AM)
Hi petpenyubobo.

Sorry but in Christianity there is no reincarnation.

Not recorded and neither taught by anyone in scripture, more so by God.

You have been given just this life and just this body. After you die, your spirit will meet God for judgement.

* Yes I know you don't believe in this, which is why I kindly request , let there be no argument on this.

This place is solely for Christian postings. Not religious argument.
*
The idea is to sow the seed of doubt. Now I understand the mission of the chosen one like a lion waiting to pounce.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Apr 29 2023, 04:46 AM
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post Apr 29 2023, 09:27 AM

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post Apr 29 2023, 09:54 AM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 29 2023, 09:27 AM)
To promote blind faith in any religion is a very dangerous approach since all religions were written by men's own selective records. It's like asking a believer to take a gamble on their life.

If you talk about lion pouncing on their preys, then you should be careful of the real enemy who comes in the form of an angel of light. Someone which tries to be the nicest person you've ever met, talk like he/she can solve all your problems in life, tells you he is like your family member you cares for you.

The complexity of human mind is narcissistic, sly and envy beyond morality in their quest to obtain authority power over others. Also for survival.

Last thing you want is to mix up your career, your personal private life with religion. I trust my family and parents first before religion. The communist ideology promotes the other way around.
*
What blind faith ? The Word of God in Holy Bible is very clear. Question is are we clear about the Word of God. I do not care if it's written by which men because the words are inspired by God and they are perfect..Sorry I don't believe in blind faith. Believing without understanding is really a dumb idea in my opinion. Since I have been promised an Advocate, the Advocate has not failed in his or her duty yet.

You are implying that God is a communist . And yes you are right because for our God is a jealous God, it's peppered throughout in the Holy Scriptures.

Obviously you haven't heard of my Master's teaching, "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me." I see, no wonder your family comes first before God.

Or my Master teaching, "Blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed". Now I say unto you, imagine the ecstacy of those who understands.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Apr 29 2023, 09:55 AM
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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 29 2023, 09:27 AM)
To promote blind faith in any religion is a very dangerous approach since all religions were written by men's own selective records. It's like asking a believer to take a gamble on their life.

If you talk about lion pouncing on their preys, then you should be careful of the real enemy who comes in the form of an angel of light. Someone which tries to be the nicest person you've ever met, talk like he/she can solve all your problems in life, tells you he is like your family member you cares for you.

The complexity of human mind is narcissistic, sly and envy beyond morality in their quest to obtain authority power over others. Also for survival.

Last thing you want is to mix up your career, your personal private life with religion. I trust my family and parents first before religion. The communist ideology promotes the other way around.
*
Sometime I wonder if you actually bother to think through before posting what you say in here.

To consider thinking who are the people in this Christian Fellowship thread, whether the people in here have been through so much in their live with their faith in God that your words will be automatically seen

as full of ignorance if not being completely blind in itself in darkness.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Apr 29 2023, 09:59 AM
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post Apr 29 2023, 10:04 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Apr 29 2023, 04:45 AM)
The idea is to sow the seed of doubt. Now I understand the mission of the chosen one like a lion waiting to pounce.
*
Same thing with what is happening in RWI.

I'm seeing for a while now the devil uses spirit of religion in argumentative people to cause further confusion and division.

I came to realize for awhile this entire forum ie being guarded spiritually.

Romans Catholic, it's not enough to just post opinion.

Prayer is much needed.
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post Apr 29 2023, 10:11 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 29 2023, 10:04 AM)
Same thing with what is happening in RWI.

I'm seeing for a while now the devil uses spirit of religion in argumentative people to cause further confusion and division.

I came to realize for awhile this entire forum ie being guarded spiritually.

Romans Catholic, it's not enough to just post opinion.

Prayer is much needed.
*
It is the same everywhere, even within the Catholic community.

While prayer is good but prayer is not everything. What is really in needed is the studying of Holy Scriptures under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

The end result will be, there are those who comes in their own name and there are those who will come in the name of our Lord. How blessed are those who comes in the name of our Lord.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Apr 29 2023, 10:15 AM
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post Apr 29 2023, 10:16 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Apr 29 2023, 09:54 AM)
What blind faith ? The Word of God in Holy Bible is very clear. Question is are we clear about the Word of God. I do not care if it's written by which men because the words are inspired by God and they are perfect..Sorry I don't believe in blind faith. Believing without understanding is really a dumb idea in my opinion. Since I have been promised an Advocate, the Advocate has not failed in his or her duty yet.

You are implying that God is a communist . And yes you are right because for our God is a jealous God, it's peppered throughout  in the Holy Scriptures.

Obviously you haven't heard of my Master's teaching, "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me." I see, no wonder your family comes first before God.

Or my Master teaching, "Blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed". Now I say unto you, imagine the ecstacy of those who understands.
*
Who is the Me?
Don't mistaken it for the angel of light.

Who is your Master who preaches from works and writings of men?

You are still promoting blind faith of the unknown there.
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post Apr 29 2023, 10:20 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Apr 29 2023, 10:11 AM)
It is the same everywhere, even within the Catholic community.

While prayer is good but prayer is not everything. What is really in needed is the studying of Holy Scriptures under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

The end result will be, there are those who comes in their own name and there are those who will come in the name of our Lord. How blessed are those who comes in the name of our Lord.
*
I have to respectfully disagree. For example as what you indicated above.

Reading the bible without prayer to the Holy Spirit to give understanding will lead to same problem of what I was trying to imply.

For me Prayer is mandatory and highly much needed.
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post Apr 29 2023, 10:24 AM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 29 2023, 10:16 AM)
Who is the Me?
Don't mistaken it for the angel of light.

Who is your Master who preaches from works and writings of men?

You are still promoting blind faith of the unknown there.
*
Me is God la.

My Master is Jesus Christ.

Walau takkan you dunno that you are the blind dude leading another blind dude as written in Holy Scriptures.

Don't write to me no more. I am not interested. You are going straight into my ignore List for your intelligence.
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post Apr 29 2023, 10:32 AM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 29 2023, 10:16 AM)
Who is the Me?
Don't mistaken it for the angel of light.

Who is your Master who preaches from works and writings of men?

You are still promoting blind faith of the unknown there.
*
You are trying to twist every good word of God into seeds of doubt.

From your first postings about Christian reincarnation till now, you have been sowing the seeds of doubt into the Christian community.

Methinks YOU are masquerading as the angel of light.

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Apr 29 2023, 10:33 AM
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post Apr 29 2023, 10:39 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 25 2023, 09:25 AM)
Hi petpenyubobo.

Sorry but in Christianity there is no reincarnation.

Not recorded and neither taught by anyone in scripture, more so by God.

You have been given just this life and just this body. After you die, your spirit will meet God for judgement.

* Yes I know you don't believe in this, which is why I kindly request , let there be no argument on this.

This place is solely for Christian postings. Not religious argument.
*
Man was already dead ever since he ate the forbidden fruit of knowledge. Genesis 2:17

As a result, women have to continue bearing children to continue the cycle of human existence. Genesis 3:16 (NKJV)

therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life. Genesis 3:23 (NKJV)

Adam and Eve lost their immortality as a result of committing sin after eating the fruit of knowledge. For as long as human population keeps growing and women bearing child the cycle of life with suffering will never end.



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post Apr 29 2023, 10:48 AM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 29 2023, 10:39 AM)
Man was already dead ever since he ate the forbidden fruit of knowledge. Genesis 2:17

As a result, women have to continue bearing children to continue the cycle of human existence. Genesis 3:16 (NKJV)

therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life. Genesis 3:23 (NKJV)

Adam and Eve lost their immortality as a result of committing sin after eating the fruit of knowledge. For as long as human population keeps growing and women bearing child the cycle of life with suffering will never end.
*
I take note you're talking from Buddhist POV. Keyword = Suffering. I'm familiar with such argument.

Not so for Christians. We have the second Adam (Christ Jesus)

John 10:10 (NIV) - The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

All born again children of God are restored back to what was lost by Adam. We are secured by God himself.

All sufferings and the system of this fallen world will end with new Heaven and Earth.

Your argument is lopsided.


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post Apr 29 2023, 10:54 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 29 2023, 10:48 AM)
I take note you're talking from Buddhist POV. Keyword = Suffering. I'm  familiar with such argument.

Not so for Christians. We have the second Adam (Christ Jesus)

John 10:10 (NIV) - The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

All born again children of God are restored back to what was lost by Adam. We are secured by God himself.

All sufferings and the system of this fallen world will end with new Heaven and Earth.

Your argument is lopsided.
*
bro u are the leader here

u gotta be tough on people who are tryin to mislead here with nonsense

just remove em
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post Apr 29 2023, 10:56 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 29 2023, 10:48 AM)
I take note you're talking from Buddhist POV. Keyword = Suffering. I'm  familiar with such argument.

Not so for Christians. We have the second Adam (Christ Jesus)

John 10:10 (NIV) - The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

All born again children of God are restored back to what was lost by Adam. We are secured by God himself.

All sufferings and the system of this fallen world will end with new Heaven and Earth.

Your argument is lopsided.
*
Jesus was not the first. Abel was the first victim of human hate and sacrifice for human jealousy.
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post Apr 29 2023, 10:58 AM

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QUOTE(GaunterO'Dimm @ Apr 29 2023, 10:54 AM)
bro u are the leader here

u gotta be tough on people who are tryin to mislead here with nonsense

just remove em
*
Jesus went through the same persecution. The pharisees crucified him for challenging them to question the truth.

I'm fine if you don't want me around any longer. I won't post anymore if you find me a threat.

This post has been edited by petpenyubobo: Apr 29 2023, 10:59 AM
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post Apr 29 2023, 10:58 AM

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QUOTE(GaunterO'Dimm @ Apr 29 2023, 10:54 AM)
bro u are the leader here

u gotta be tough on people who are tryin to mislead here with nonsense

just remove em
*
Noted.
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post Apr 29 2023, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 29 2023, 10:56 AM)
Jesus was not the first. Abel was the first victim of human hate and sacrifice for human jealousy.
*
Jesus pre-existed Adam or Abel. Jesus has the preeminence.

Behind the scene I know Cain was incited by the devil to kill Abel.
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post Apr 29 2023, 11:09 AM

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QUOTE(petpenyubobo @ Apr 29 2023, 10:58 AM)
Jesus went through the same persecution. The pharisees crucified him for challenging them to question the truth.

I'm fine if you don't want me around any longer. I won't post anymore if you find me a threat.
*
The whole problem from our POV you are misusing scripture to propagate your reincarnation & buddhist philosophy.

So Yes do stop else I will delete, final warning.

We are not ignorant of our faith and the bible like you think we are.

It's presumptuous of you.
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post Apr 29 2023, 12:35 PM

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I would like to share this worship group called Common Gathering.

I feel they are authentic. They are asian represented but their worship music and singing is top notch imo.





Lyrics:
Jesus how I love to be in Your presence
Your Name is the sweetest fragrance
Jesus may my heart and soul long for one thing
To be Yours completely

With bended knees we sing Your glory
In Your courts we will ever dwell

Come and fill our hearts with
Overflowing worship for Your Name
Lord receive our broken pieces
May it be an offering

With bended knees we lay our burdens
Broken hearts You will not despise

Come and move, take over
Fill the room, I surrender

I want to love what You love
I want to do what You do
I want to go where You go
And sing like nobody’s in the room

I want to see Your beauty
I want to sit beside the One
I want to live to know You
And be lost in the wonder of Your love

Come and fill our hearts with
Overflowing worship for Your Name
Lord receive our broken pieces
You are worthy to be praised

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post Apr 29 2023, 01:39 PM

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Apr 30 2023, 03:20 PM
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post May 6 2023, 01:05 PM

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Power of God that brings Salvation

Romans 1:16 (NIV) - For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

"THE POWER OF GOD" Take a mental note on this phrase. Ephesians 1:19-20 (pls refer to your bible) and today's devotion verse tells us this same power is available to all of us believers.

This verse Romans 1:16 basically affirms the power of God still avails for today. The key can be found in 2 words;

1) Salvation
2) Everyone who believes

The Word Salvation in the Greek "sótéria" means welfare, prosperity, deliverance, preservation, salvation, safety. So Salvation is not just eternal life as most people understand it. It is an encompassing meaning. And to have welfare, prosperity, deliverance, preservation, salvation, safety, it takes God's power to work. We cannot produce all these.

There is a cessationist camp that tries very hard to deny God's power in this forum. Their typical argument revolves around very weak and faulty argument.

1. Do you still see God working powerful miracles like in the days of the Apostles. You no longer see it therefore it no longer applies (As if God's miracles depends on your personal view, No it doesn't. God is the same yesterday today and forever, therefore God's miracles still avails today. Even scripture attest God is still working today and has never rested and the context very clearly was on dispensing His miracles - John 5)

2. Reading into scripture. They misinterpret scripture verses, the powers of God was spoken to the apostles and no one else just because Jesus spoke to the apostles. (I will argue against that because by the same erroneous logic, then the phrase you must be born again was specific to Nicodemus and no one else <-- Do you see how horrible the logic of the argument?).

The Lord gave me this verse (Romans 1:16) to destroy that error. Am I posting this just for argument sake?

No.

Ephesians 6 tells "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." Are the powers of darkness merely hindering people's salvation?

No.

Even from scripture history, we know people were possessed by the devil, all kind of sickness and infirmities inflicted by powers of darkness.

Friends, we face real oppositions from principalities and powers of the air. There are all kind of problems caused by them. We need God's power today to break all the bondages and powers of the devil.
It will be to the devil's delight to convince believers God's miraculous power no longer avails today, why? Because that will put a HUGE advantage to the devil's kingdom. It takes God's miraculous power to bring the devil to naught.

Have spiritual wisdom in this. Consider the danger of believing cessationist theology. This devotion is not solely about argument but for the sake of setting people free from the powers of darkness. The bible tells God's Truth and the Son of God sets people free and it's not just mere words but the power of God behind God's word that sets people free.

I pray the Holy Spirit will give you wisdom on today's devotion.

God Bless.


This post has been edited by unknown warrior: May 6 2023, 01:12 PM
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post May 9 2023, 10:05 AM

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Revelation of the washing of feet

John 13: 5 (NIV) - After that, he poured water into a basin and began to wash his disciples’ feet, drying them with the towel that was wrapped around him.

In John 13, it was the last moments our Lord Jesus spend time with his disciples before going to the cross. And I love the phrase in the opening statement in John 13, "He love them to the end". That is so powerful because that tells you and I, how much God loves you....UNTIL the end.

Jesus knew everything that was about to happen. He also knew God the Father gave Him everything under Christ's power.

Jesus knowing that He is the most powerful in power and strength in that room, decided to wash his disciples feet with water. Think about it.

But what is the significance of this?

But I want to ask all of you something. Do you think Peter did not know Christ was about to wash his feet? Imagine if you were there, would you know Christ was about to wash your feet?

Of course we would! I reckon Peter also would! But is it really about the physical act of washing feet? Answer is No!
Jesus said something profound " What I'm doing now you don't understand but you will later".

How is it that we don't understand it's about washing the feet with water? Not unless this isn't about physical act of washing anyone's feet.

Allow Bible to interpret Bible.

The key revelation to this can be found in verse

"10 Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you.”

The bath here is referring to Salvation, you only need one time bathing and consistent washing of feet with water to be clean.

John 15:3 (NIV) - You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.
Ephesians 5:26 (NIV) - to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,

The revelation of the washing of feet has to do with being washed by God's word. God's word is the cleansing water! And God's word washes off the dust from your feet. That is why after hearing preaching of God's word or after you spend time in God's word, you feel clean.

Friends, if you have this nagging feeling that you are contaminated, as if you're tainted with dirt, seemingly being judged by God, perhaps it's a sign you have not really been spending time in the Bible. Many times over the Bible reminds us of our new birth, our new life in Christ, the blood of Christ that has removed our sins.

Jesus said in John 13 Verse 8 "....Unless I wash you, you have no part with me.” This has to do with partnership with God, IE ministry with God. The Lord didn't say "..IN me" but "WITH me" IN Me would have referred to Salvation but clearly this has everything to do with everyday living in partnership with God, not Salvation.

Friends, whenever I share my devotions, I am also washing your feet with God's word but don't just depend on my devotions to wash your feet, it's not enough. I beseech you to spend personal time in God's word. When you are constantly cleaned by God's word, it's very hard for the devil or even deceitful Men to deceive or shake you.

Remember we have an enemy who is alway prowling seeking someone to devour and Genesis 3 tells us the serpent's food is dust. During our journey in life, dust can get on our feet when we failed or fall! The enemy seeks to contaminate you and to condemn you to make you feel dirty. FIGHT back by reading God's word to be cleaned.

God Bless.


This post has been edited by unknown warrior: May 9 2023, 10:55 AM
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post May 11 2023, 03:46 PM

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Shameless audacity prayer

Luke 11:8 (NIV) - I tell you, even though he will not get up and give you the bread because of friendship, yet because of your shameless audacity he will surely get up and give you as much as you need.

Today's devotion is about being persistent in prayer. I pick NIV version because it brings out the best meaning in translation.

Luke 11:8 came just after Jesus Christ taught on prayer*.


QUOTE
*Father,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come.

Give us each day our daily bread.

Forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.

And lead us not into temptation.



And that intrigue me a lot. Didn't the word of God also teaches us that when we believe by faith that we will received it (though we are not seeing it yet), we will have it? Yet In Luke 11 from verse 5 to 8, it seems to imply there is resistance to answering your request.

QUOTE
"7 And suppose the one inside answers, ‘Don’t bother me. The door is already locked, and my children and I are in bed. I can’t get up and give you anything."


This passage is not referring to God the Father. Jesus was illustrating your human neighbours who may be reluctant to give you what you want.

What God wants for us is to be thoroughly persistent in prayer. The Greek word use "anaideia" in this verse is correct. It means shameless persistence. NIV says shameless audacity which brings out the context very clear. We need to be extremely persistent, especially when you're not seeing the result. Why?

Too many people easily give up in prayers. They have a wrong understanding when it comes to prayer.

If God knows everything why should I need to pray? I thought Bible promise if we believe we will for sure receive it? And when prayers are not answered after trying for sometime, people give up.

Friend you forgot you have a spiritual enemy who resist your prayer. Ephesians 6 tells us our war is not against flesh and blood but against principalities, against rulers in spiritual realm. War means the enemy will oppose against you. Hence why there is war. And it's not a typical normal fight like a boxing match with punches and jabs, but WAR friend! If you understand the real meaning of war then you will understand why you need to have shameless audacity in prayer!

I hope and pray this devotion will wake you to continue to pray and not give up. If The Lord has given you insight into this, don't wait too long to start praying for your much needed breakthrough.

PM me if you need to ask question.

God Bless.


This post has been edited by unknown warrior: May 11 2023, 03:47 PM
TSunknown warrior
post May 12 2023, 10:41 AM

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Shameless audacity prayer Part 2

Luke 11:9 (NIV) - So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

The Bible says we have not because we ask not. Prayer is basically communication with God and I don't believe in making prayer complex or something religious or ritualistic. For example, you don't need to don some sort of religious clothing or prayer cloth or light some candles, recite some bible passages, now I'm not against all those but Jesus never taught us that. He just prayed straight away to God the Father anywhere anytime in his normal clothing. It's that simple.

The Bible never teaches only Holy Man, Pastors or Priests can request prayer to God. Any Born again Christians can pray. You have as much influence with God as the ministers have.

You pray because it indicates you know who is the one with all the powers. Interestingly God's word tells us to pray in all occasions and situations.

Christians who do not pray or do not believe in prayer, live a dead if not defeated christian life. Prayer is something Christian cannot do without much. It's much needed like breathing oxygen.

Today I will share with you on what I know about prayer.

1. Always ask The Holy Spirit to pray with you and through you and ask for wisdom in knowing what to pray for. If you know how to pray in the spirit, do so. If you don't or do not believe in praying in the spirit, still ask for wisdom and the Holy Spirit to pray with you..always.

2. Don't pray wrong prayer with wrong motives. You know what it is. It's basic common sense not to pray for selfish reasons or something that is sinful. Things like, asking God to make people to be hurt or injured or to be cursed. Those who does this, may inevitably open gateways or door for the enemy to attack the one who pray and the one who is being prayed for.

3. I don't believe necessary in long prayers. Jesus prayed the shortest pray and they were answered. Prayer just need to be genuine, sincere and straight to the point with faith. Now I'm not against spiritual warfare prayers, wrestling with the devil prayers or intercessory prayers. If you are lead by Holy Spirit to do so, please go ahead. Getting prayers answered is not about how long, how many hours you must pray but understanding the principles of God's kingdom IE faith, how they work and understanding God who answer the prayer. Sometime I just pray to God, "Lord my faith is so small like a mustard seed, I don't have much faith but your word promise even small faith like a mustard seed can move mountains" You get what I mean? You must know the Bible, on what basis God answers prayer.

4. Be aggressive in prayer. Get fed up and put your foot down that you want the problem to be removed or solved. Don't pray "Lord if it be in your will..." prayers. You must be confident to know what is God's will. Infirmities, sicknesses or diseases are never God's will. Those who teach God give sickness to so and so to teach something have a wrong understanding of God. Pray confidently in faith. Don't back off, don't back down. Understand that sickness, illness, death are to be considered as enemies of God. If they are enemies, they must be prayed against! If they are not answered soon, persist with shameless audacity until God answers.

5. Command, not beg (you're not talking to God about the sickness/healing. Jesus represented God and He gave commands to the demons, sicknesses, etc, think about this!) Speak to the problem, not to God about the problem or anyone else about the problem. Mark 11:23 teaches us this.

6. Sin does not hinder answered prayers. When Jesus prayed for sinners, they all got healed. They all had sin in their lives when they approach Jesus for prayer. Think about it.

7. Be firmly established in your Salvation. If you are not too sure if you are saved, it's very hard for you to pray. 1 John 3:21 says "if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God". There are no perfect Christians. Even after saved we are all Work in Progress in character change yet our status of being saved is a different matter. It is secured by God himself via our faith. That is firmly establish by the word of God. And even our faith can be inconsistent, some days a lot of faith, some days very little faith. Yet it does not matter. What matter is that you have faith, even a tiny speck, God sees it. What is important is that you know you are saved by God's grace through your faith in your Saviour Christ Jesus. God is the one saving you, not you saving yourself via your own performances (obedience, works, etc). Have the biblical perspective, Sin is no longer an issue for the born again believer. Because your Christ take cares of it, not you. You have no power against sin anyway. So the work to change the believer is the Holy Spirit and not you, always remember this truth.

8. Nothing wrong if you are praying the same items everyday. Luke 18 teach us that. The parable of the widow who keep disturbing the unrighteous judge. And the phrase use in Luke 18 in verse 7 "And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night?" Keyword is day and night! Isn't that verse indicating you are bothering God with same thing day and night? Yet, God will not get bored or fed up with such. In fact it delight God's heart for you to come to Him to pray.

9. Stay away from people or those who claim to be christians but are divisive and negative. Surround yourself with like minded faith filled believers who believe in God's power and miracle still working today. Surround yourself with preaching, sermons and testimonies of people who are experiencing God's power. Let their testimonies encourage you. For far too long the devil has planted his scheme to get Christians to be negative and reserved when it comes to God's power and miracles.

10. Be open to God, don't ever limit what God can do. Give God the freedom and the honor that nothing is impossible for God.

I have more to add but I think it may be too much.

I pray these 10 points suffice for now.

The Lord Bless you.


This post has been edited by unknown warrior: May 12 2023, 03:47 PM
TSunknown warrior
post May 13 2023, 10:49 AM

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I just want to encourage to any brothers or sisters who are facing a lot of spiritual attacks in your life.

Though the trials you face can be painful but it's a sure sign that you are saved.

The devil heavily attacks Christians who are a threat. The enemy also seem to be able to perceive Christians who have much potential in latter part of their lives in glorifying God.

Take heart for those going under trials.

God Bless.




Roman Catholic
post May 13 2023, 11:17 AM

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The Evil One will never attack his own faithful followers for our Lord says this, "If one group is fighting against another in Satan's kingdom, this means that it is already divided and soon will fall apart !"

Since the Evil One got nothing else better to do, so targets the sheep of our Good Shepherd lo.
TSunknown warrior
post May 13 2023, 11:57 AM

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Jesus Christ is God

John 17 (NIV)

1 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:

“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

There are voices in this world that deny Jesus Christ being God.

The word of God in the Bible begs to differ.

Only God can forgive sins and give eternal life. Only God has power and authority over everything.

The Bible clearly records, Jesus Christ was given power and authority of God.

Matthew 28:18 (NIV) - Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.


Jesus Christ throughout the Bible record did dispense forgiveness of sins and that proves few things:

1. Jesus Christ is God having the power to forgive sin
2. Jesus Christ is God having the power to heal others.
3. The person that was healed proves the authenticity of Jesus Christ of who He claims to be

A mere human prophet cannot do that. He has no basis to forgive another human's sin. There must be payment for sin.

The bible states without the shedding of blood there can be no forgiveness of sins.

Judge for yourself if you have been deceived in hearing an error.

Jesus Christ in the Christian Bible has non-christian historical records as well as first hand witnesses record.

I cannot be convince If there are other holy book that try to convince me their version of Jesus is real as they do not have historical authenticity. I would be foolish to believe in that.

Yet this Jesus that myself and many other Christians (Multitudes) have come to experience and believe cannot be denied.

May God give you a revelation on this.




TSunknown warrior
post May 15 2023, 12:05 PM

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Condemning and Judging others is a sin

Romans 8:33 - 34 (NIV) - Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

I find Romans 8:33 - 34 to be very sanctifying. There is a wise saying of a Man of God who taught me, it's none of my business to heed the condemning opinions of people. What is important that you heed the opinion of God.

Is it arrogance to ignore people's saying or advises? You can use wisdom. Sometime there can be manipulation as a way to get to you. Yet at the root of it, it's just condemnation.

When you recognize such, just ignore them. When you see it being done in love, you know it's from God.

I'm in favour of removing scripture abuse. There is a phrase in the bible; Iron sharpens iron came from Proverbs 27 verse 17. But the next phrase is hardly quoted; "so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend."

When iron sharpen iron, it is not something that is condemning. It is meant to bring up the character of that friend. To be better.

Look to Jesus Christ as an example. When Christ is being firm, Yet He is tactful, doesn't hurt others. Look at the way Christ talk to the Samaritan woman at the well or the supposedly prostitute which the pharisees asked to be stoned. These are sinners very easily gossips among people.

Christ only reserved his strongest word against the pharisees. Why? Because they put up burdens, hindrances and blockages for people to be saved. God made the way easy (Saved by grace via faith) and these are trying to make it hard for Salvation. (Performance Salvation, Man's effort to Law) It is also sad to note pharisees are not happy for people to be healed or delivered from their ailing predicament, think about this. I have people labelling "schizophrenia" when I state Christians can hear from God or God can speak to his child. Or when God dispenses his power of miracles, these people automatically throw label false christians or satanic. It should be one of encouragement to be close and connected to God. It's really sad to see people like this. The pharisees were like this and we have people today like this. This is why I'm against cessations theology. It's a heresy.

The heart of man can be deceitful. There are many hurting people in this world. I caution that we need to be careful when there are people who are divisive and condemning. There are red flag warnings when you see someone who are against Bible principles of loving your enemies (Even self opinion justifying quoting of I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated as permission to spite others). It is also red flag warning when you see there are throwing of labels on others as Satanic or False prophets or false christians just because they don't agree with your theology. These are usually indication of spiritual immaturity.

Yet the Bible has warned us many times over never to judge others.

James 4:12 (NIV) - There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?

James 5:9 (NIV) - Don’t grumble against one another, brothers and sisters, or you will be judged. The Judge is standing at the door!

Romans 14:4 (NIV) - Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

As Christians we need to be careful on this.

If anyone is weak in this can pray to the Lord to ask for grace and strength to let go. I preach this to myself as well in case you are wondering. Does it also mean we just let people continue to do wrong without telling them? Answer is no but it needs to be done with spiritual wisdom, tact and love.

And strong indication the mark of God's disciple is love. Jesus said, “By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another” (John 13:35.)

This the difference and a sign to know who is who.

We all need help at times. But Let Love be the way. Otherwise it's never God but the devil.

Grace be with you on this.



GaunterO'Dimm P
post May 17 2023, 07:48 AM

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on the recent ruling concerning the use of the word Allah

the bible never mentioned we should call God God or Allah

but instead, we need to call Him Abba, Father, or Dad
TSunknown warrior
post May 18 2023, 10:16 AM

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Heavenly Father

John 17:6 (WEB) - I revealed your name to the people whom you have given me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me. They have kept your word.

God has many names.

Elohim, Yahweh, IAM, Jehovah, Adonai, EL ELYON, etc to name a few.

But the greatest name Jesus Christ came to reveal is

Heavenly Father.

It's recorded consistently in new testament. What is interesting to me, Jesus tells us to make it personal when calling God.

John 20:17 (NIV) - Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

Do you see that? God isn't just any God but "MY" Father. The phrase "My Father" gives a whole different meaning in how we need to see God.

Why Father?

1. Love
2. Family
3. Care


The world do not know God as Heavenly Father. They see Him as a distance God or a judgemental God. One who is harsh and only interest to catch you in your sins. Regardless of whatever system of believe in this world, point is; it's the same for all of them. There is a distance between them and God. In this distance there is uncertainty.

But for us,

This is what separate Christianity from all other religion---> We are close with God and we have relationship with God.

Hence why there is a 2 way relationship with God. Christianity is not a religion but in essence relationship with God. We speak to God and God speaks to us, God responds to us. As Christians we can hear from God through his word and at times God speaks to us in many different ways. Some can hear audibly which is increasing. I'm hearing and seeing so many testimonies on this.

I need to give caution to the readers in here. There is a forum member in this forum who seems to have great interest in Christianity (not sure whether he is one, from my view doesn't seem to be) but label christians who can hear God speaking as "szipzophenia" Be wary of such. I've disengage from speaking with this person after discovering there is something that is unsound with his mindset that needs to keep arguing for sake of arguing and even have the audacity to refute part of Bible being not valid.

Nevertheless, point is, we can hear God speaking through people, situations, even thoughts, in the heart and in the spirit.

Some of you may have yet to experience the closeness. Do remember, relationship with God is never based on feelings. At times God will allow you to feel his presence. At times we feel his power but the essence of our relationship with God MUST be foundationally be on faith. Don't ask me why, God has ordained it that way but point is, it works. We have too many testimonies of how God responds and move with us in times of our need when God sees our faith

God Bless





TSunknown warrior
post May 19 2023, 04:27 PM

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You know guys, it's interesting that Satan takes away God's word the moment it is sown when one don't understand.

Satan does not take away what isn't valuable. Do you hear me?

It's to your own interest to invest time to read God's word and ask the HS to give you understanding.

I can tell you all the wonderful benefits of God's word but it will be pointless and does not make sense (bcos Satan will try block you and steal God's word from your heart)
unless you make effort to gain spiritual understanding in the Bible.

One powerful benefit of God's word, it is medicine to your physical body.

And this promise has no side effect like your conventional medicine.
TSunknown warrior
post May 19 2023, 04:42 PM

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Proverbs 3:1-12 (NIV)

1 My son, do not forget my teaching,
but keep my commands in your heart,

2 for they will prolong your life many years
and bring you peace and prosperity.

3 Let love and faithfulness never leave you;
bind them around your neck,
write them on the tablet of your heart.

4 Then you will win favor and a good name
in the sight of God and man.

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;

6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.

7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
fear the Lord and shun evil.

8 This will bring health to your body
and nourishment to your bones.

9 Honor the Lord with your wealth,
with the firstfruits of all your crops;

10 then your barns will be filled to overflowing,
and your vats will brim over with new wine.

11 My son, do not despise the Lord’s discipline,
and do not resent his rebuke,

12 because the Lord disciplines those he loves,
as a father the son he delights in.

Roman Catholic
post May 19 2023, 09:54 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 19 2023, 04:27 PM)
You know guys, it's interesting that Satan takes away God's word the moment it is sown when one don't understand.

Satan does not take away what isn't valuable. Do you hear me?

It's to your own interest to invest time to read God's word and ask the HS to give you understanding.

I can tell you all the wonderful benefits of God's word but it will be pointless and does not make sense (bcos Satan will try block you and steal God's word from your heart)
unless you make effort to gain spiritual understanding in the Bible.

One powerful benefit of God's word, it is medicine to your physical body.

And this promise has no side effect like your conventional medicine.
*
Once someone is in tune with his or her Advocate, very soon one will be able to hear the words even before a holy person utters, because it is always the same Spirit as our Lord Jesus Christ had promised.

Not only that, as sheep will run away from unknown voices but a sheep can only recognize the voice of the Good Shepherd himself. That is why, it's imperative that all Christians must spend quality time over EVERY teaching of our Good Shepherd. Every teaching of our Good Shepherd is true, is perfect and it's understandable. The only question is, do we really understand our Good Shepherd teachings ?

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: May 19 2023, 10:00 PM
TSunknown warrior
post May 20 2023, 11:16 AM

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How to gain understanding to God's word?

Joshua 1:8 (NIV) - Keep this Book of the Law always on your lips; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful.


Everytime you see the word "Law" in the OT, don't get too worried about it. You live under the New Covenant so always interpret the OT under revelation of the New Covenant. For the born again believer, understand the word Law basically means God's word.

The way to understand or have insight on God's word is to meditate on it as outlined in Joshua 1 verse 8. The word meditate in Hebrew is "Hagah". Definition = "to moan, growl, utter, speak, muse"

For example " The Lord is my Shepherd.." (Psalms 23)

You can meditate just these few words. Keep it in your mind, you can ponder on it, mutter it. You can mutter it under your breath, no need to be loud, only for you to know.

"The Lord is my Shepherd.....The Lord is my Shepherd....The Lord is my Shepherd.."

Soon you will realize...Hey The Lord IS my shepherd..always. IS basically means 24/7. Do you see that? No matter what I'm going through, The Lord IS my Shepherd. Hey, God will still guide me and care for me like a shepherd despite of my bad circumstance. Powerful truth like this can bring supernatural peace just like that. Do you begin to see how meditation helps? If you keep on meditating even on these few words, you will uncover more revelation of God's word.

Don't be surprise of how much you can uncover by just meditating few words in God's word. I'm giving you this spiritual revelation, only for you guys; Always remember God's word is God's Spirit! Always remember the text you read in the Bible are never normal text word, it is God Himself. When you keep this understanding in mind, I can promise you, you will uncover God's word for yourself!

Is Joshua 1:8 the only indication of where we need to meditate in order to gain understanding? Answer is no, see Psalms 1

Psalms 1:1-3 (NIV)

1 Blessed is the one who does not walk in step with the wicked or stand in the way that sinners take or sit in the company of mockers,
2 but whose delight is in the law of the Lord, and who meditates on his law day and night.
3 That person is like a tree planted by streams of water, which yields its fruit in season and whose leaf does not wither whatever they do prospers.

See the result when you meditate? Whatever you do prospers! This doesn't make any sense to the world. How can meditating Bible verse make me prosper?

Well not so for you, child of God, for God's word is God himself! That is why you can prosper! Don't worry too much about the prosper part, that is God's part unto you. You just meditate to gain understanding, the prospering will come in inevitably without you being conscious of it.

Allow this to be your homework. Meditate Psalms 1 verse 1 to 3 as above. Meditate all 3 verse until you gain some revelation in there and maybe if you want, you can share what you learn by posting in this thread.

God Bless.








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post May 20 2023, 10:09 PM

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QUOTE(GaunterO'Dimm @ Mar 14 2023, 01:51 PM)
what is our spirit exactly?

spirit is different from soul

i believe soul is our conscience, character, emotions, intellect

Jesus said to worship God in spirit not in soul.

an unbleiver has a dead spirit
*
No. Actually our conscience, character, emotions & especially our intellect comes from the brain.

That has all been proven by science. You have received a very poor education.

If certain areas of your brain are damaged, you cannot even experience certain emotions, like fear, happiness, etc.

You cannot even form proper sentences if your brain is damaged.

If you have a ‘soul’, you should have no problems behaving normally, even if your brain is damaged. How come that is not the case?

Do you know that some people experience severe personality changes after a stroke?

Memory can also be affected, if your brain is damaged. Have you seen what dementia does to a person?

Why would that be a problem, if all your memories are stored in your ‘soul’?

Answer me, what is spirit? Have you seen a spirit? How do you measure spirit? How do you proof you have one?

What is a soul? Have you seen a soul? How do you measure a soul? How do you proof you have one?

How do you proof that an unbeliever has a dead spirit, but yours is ‘alive’?

You are not making any sense! It’s when people like you, who passes off such foolish statements as ‘facts’, that gives us Christians a bad name.

Stop making outrageous & unproven claims. Claims are not evidence.


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