Those new at watches do read this 1st
http://www.watcharama.com/glossary.htm

Chronograph and affordable homages (Sub, Pammy, B&R) are big. try to name a few brands, will try my best to update this list

where to find those affordable homages
Sub Homage
- www.mkiiwatches.com
- www.orangewatchcompany.com
- www.steinhartwatches.de
- www.robert-uhren.de
- www.debaufre.com
- www.marcelloc-watches.com
- www.rxw.jp
- www.davosawatches.com
- http://www.msc-uhren.com/watches.htm

Sub homage similar to the original James Bond watch
- STEINHART "OCEAN 1 VINTAGE"
http://www.steinhartwatches.de/
- http://www.orangewatchcompany.com/milsub/index.php
- MK II Kingston

Pammy Homage
- Vollmer watch ( starts at ~1.4K @ watchseller.com )
- Aristo
- Dievas watch ( http://gnomonwatches.com/Dievas.html)
- www.rxw.jp (price ~1.6K)
- www.drcustomwatch.com (mix of Swiss and Asian)
(Asian parts)
- Getat http://www.siswatch727.com/index.do
- Jackson Tse http://www.jacksontse.com/
- Davidsen ( davidsenjpn@yahoo.com ) - prices starts from rm$1K for Unitas 6497


Bell and Ross Homage
- Junkers
- www.steinhartwatches.de
- www.debaufre.com
- http://www.revue-thommen.ch/instrument.htm

many pilot fans here too
- www.stowa.com
- http://www.lacher-shop.de/e_shop/index.php
- www.archimede-uhren.de
- www.christopherward.co.uk
- Aristo (prices start ~1.5K)
- http://prometheuswatch.com/

IWC pilot homage
- Speedbird with soft iron core http://www.timefactors.com/speedbird.htm

diver watches
(online only)
- www.christopherward.co.uk
- guinand-watch.com
- http://www.ocean7watchco.com/
- Doxa
- www.mkiiwatches.com
- www.orangewatchcompany.com
- www.steinhartwatches.de
- www.robert-uhren.de
- www.debaufre.com
- www.uhr.info (~rm1k)
- Marathon http://www.broadarrow.net/GSAR.htm
- Bernhardt http://www.bernhardtwatch.com/
- www.boschett-timepieces.com
- www.utswatches.com
- http://www.benaruswatches.com/
- http://www.helson-watches.com/
- http://prometheuswatch.com/
(in stores)
- Fortis
- Hamilton
- Oris
- Sinn
- Tag Heuer
- Longines
- etc

German watches that invested alot in case and movement tech
- Sinn
- http://www.damasko.de/eng/index.html

small size watches (case 33-38mm size)
- www.christopherward.co.uk (price starts at RM600)
- http://junior.frederique-constant.com/ (prices start at RM2.6K)
- http://www.dfreemontwatches.com/new_yorker.htm
- hamilton watch (Field mechanical size at 33mm) retail price ~rm1.1K
- Seiko Spirit Automatic (size 37mm)
- Titoni (many model range btw 33mm to 38mm) http://www.pmwf.com/Watches/WATCHSALES/TitoniSalesTable.htm
- Stowa Antea Kleine Sekunde (35.5mm) or Stowa Antea 365 (36.5mm) prices with shipping ~rm$1.4K and up
- nomos club (36mm) retails ~rm4.5K to 5K or Nomos Ludwig (33mm) retails rm$5K and up
- http://www.jswatch.com/enska/urin.html
- http://www.rgmwatches.com/110As.html
- Maurice Lacroix http://www.mauricelacroix.com/#OUR%20CLASSICS
- http://www.archimede-uhren.de/EN/Pilot-S.htm (prices start at ~rm1.5k)
- http://www.autran-viala.de (prices start at ~rm1.4k)
- http://guinand-watch.com/index.php?option=...=193&Itemid=432 (price at ~rm$1.8K)

great value Chrono watches
- www.uhr.info (rm$1.6k)
- http://www.genius1953.de/
- Guinand watch

Skeleton watches on swiss movement
- SWATCH under US$180
- http://www.steinhartwatches.de/ (limited edition)
- Oris Artelier Skeleton also US$1.5k an up
- Louis Erard 1931 collection usually usd$1.5K an up
- http://www.tourbywatches.com/ usually EUR$1.1K an up
- Maurice Lacroix Masterpiece Skeleton (retailing US$5K an up)

Skeleton or open dial on Jap movement
- Orient watch ~US$350 (not really skeleton, just open dial)
- BULOVA ~US$250 and up (open dial)
- Invicta (some are using Chinese movement)

Skeleton or open dial on Chinese movement
- Invicta
- Armitron
- Kenneth Cole (mostly fashion brands)
- Seagull
- Alpha watch usually under US$100
- Theorema watch usually ~US$200
- TRIAS watch (some swiss movement model cost more, mostly Chinese)

Looking for Japanese Mechanical
- www.seiyajapan.com
- http://www.higuchi-inc.com/
- www.orientwatchusa.com

grey market (online)
- thewatchery.com ( I dealt with them b4)
- ashford.com ( I dealt with them b4)
- collectorstime.com





This post has been edited by patryn33: Oct 3 2012, 09:25 AM

LOL the first 3 post got absolutely nothing to do with the thread... heck not even regular thread poster to start with

On topic, getting annoyed that despite Msia supposedly to be tax free for watches, I'm still getting cheaper prices down in Singapore!

What is the best discount that we can expect from retailers in malaysia compared to singapore?

Comparing msrp I think both MY and SG are about the same price (SG price may be slightly more attractive if consider GST rebate). It all depends on the discount that dealers are willing to give.

Is it? Last time I checked Speedy prices (last year I think), they were higher in SG.
So far, the only place that I found watches to be cheaper than in MY is in Bangkok (or in Siam Paragon to be exact ).

May I know which watch you are referring? I'm went there and yet I don't see the "cheaper than MY" word there.

which model is the slimmest casio protrek?and price below 1k.

Wanna buy a tag, if in sg where to shop ah? Isit cheaper then in msia??

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Added on November 20, 2011, 6:59 pmBy de way V4 yahoo

This post has been edited by michaelzolt: Nov 20 2011, 06:59 PM

Hey guys, just wanna ask.. If I wanna replace my current watch glass (mineral glass) with a new sapphire glass that is scratch-proof, where can I get it done in KL/PJ? And roughly how much would it cost? And is it risky towards my watch? Any feedback and help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

congrats to the V4 with my new toy


Attached thumbnail(s)

Hey guys, I have a question.. If I wanna replace my current watch glass (mineral glass) with a new sapphire glass that is scratch-proof, where can I get it done in KL/PJ? And roughly how much would it cost? And is it risky towards my watch? Any feedback and help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

what was brand is it?

the hardest part about this would be sourcing the sapphire glass itself (unless its a seiko, cos there are quite a few ppl online who do sell). installing it should be straight forward, using a crystal press. watch shops who repair can do this.

not risky if done right.

congrats! very sexy...

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Added on November 21, 2011, 9:03 amhehe. all i know seikos are cheaper there! hope to go down again for xmas. haha

This post has been edited by fluffy6640: Nov 21 2011, 09:03 AM

The Submariner 14060 was about RM2-3k cheaper when I was there. Omegas were about the same, give or take a few hundred RM.
Also saw a Lange going for about RM20k, was shocked as I didn't know their entry level was actually quite achievable one
All prices are boutique prices btw.

On the topic of places with most attractive prices, I have heard HK is also a good place to hunt for mid-high end watches. Any comments/experiences to share?

My boss got his Submariner Date there for a significant discount a couple years back.

It's a Casio Edifice watch. Does that mean that I have to look for the sapphire my glass before I head to the watch shops? Or do watch shops sell these glasses for replacement?

im not 100% sure if they have replacement sapphire glass for mineral crystal watches, normally they shud have replacements for those models that come standard with sapphire.

you can try to ask shops where they carry replacement sapphire glass, which may fit the size of your watch?

Carol's Watch and Jewellery Centre gave me a good price though email correspondence, lowest compared to what is offered to me locally. An aquaintance just returned with a Tag Aquaracer, didnt ask for the name of the shop though.

This post has been edited by Human Nature: Nov 21 2011, 12:10 PM

may i know the average price for Montblanc watches?

Anyone know how much is it to change Jaeger's strap ? Much appreciated.

Hey thanks so much for this info! Good day.

Do u need deploynant? What kind of leather? The prices does vary lot. Cow cheaper, exotic animal cost more. Regular cow leather last few year I check was like us$200. Prices maybe higher now.

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Added on November 22, 2011, 4:22 amLow end are quartz, highend are those inhouse movement. Seriously not sure how to avg, u looking for what kind?
What is your budget?

This post has been edited by patryn33: Nov 22 2011, 04:22 AM

btw davidsen replied me that my automatic homage is using Swiss Eta 9035 Movt .

Is that a Soprod modded version of the ETA2892? GMT, power reserve...quite a few complications in there.

http://www.soprod.ch/clock-movement/9-162.html

yah but there isnt a dial on 12 oclock

you're welcome. and good luck in hunting for the sapphire glass.

do update us if you do get it fixed

Got this as a present from my wife , i think last year.
(CERUTTI 1881) I forget the model no haha....will post more of my collection soon..


Attached thumbnail(s)

can always choose not to put the 24hr hand. It is on display back? A ETA 2892 cost around US$200, sopord mod to 9035 i would imagine cost more. 2 watches at rm$3k hmmm. I cannot find 9035 movement only online, if its true swiss that a great deal. I wonder how much is he selling just this watch.
static.lowyat.net/uploads/attach-39/post-19239-1321500948.jpg

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Added on November 22, 2011, 6:20 pmsopord module on eta 2892. That eta 2892 already cost like us$240. No idea how much the module cost. unitas watch usually for us$300+ if lucky yet movement cost ~US$160.

This post has been edited by patryn33: Nov 22 2011, 06:20 PM

the 3k breaks down to 1k for the unitas and 2k for the eta9035.

Looks good
Tissot Seastar 1000

Congrat to V4

I got the deployant already . Do you have any reliable source at KL which I can order from ? Thanks .

its like porn. i check it out everytime i pass by any tissot carrying shops. haha.

Which watchmaker do you guys usually send for repair & maintenance?

Original strap is very expensive... no matter what brands... for Jaeger LeCoultre i bought extra 1 for my wife, 1 for myself, cost RM1.1k each for your reference.
Cause for JLC squadra have different design...
Just found 1 website can place order for custom made, so from now all my straps i will order online, it's made to order. Can choose materials, colors, length, size and style.

Just order 1 strap from there to use it on my new purchased. (original strap too long for my small wrist)

even for the tissot classic dream, i asked for the leather strap, RM300++. i agree with that statement. its expensive

Apparently this is due to the fact that although watches are tax free in Malaysia, watch parts are not. I believe bracelets fall under that category too hence the high price.

my brother bought the blue 1, rma after 1 week, the bezel color faded, and when you shake the watch, some loose inside.

dang. that's a bummer

---

Added on November 24, 2011, 4:22 pmthis is horrible news. oh well, from what i heard, they used a new movement, C10 i think. there's some plastic parts in there.

This post has been edited by fluffy6640: Nov 24 2011, 04:22 PM

all AD are reliable.
silverstan paid 1.1k, prices are up. u might as well get non original ones. quality maybe just as good.

brands such as Chatelet, HIRSCH, Di-Modell are very good too.
http://www.watchstyle.com/
http://www.fredawatchstraps.com

Di Modell has a patented “AERO Lining” is guaranteed sweat resistant with a porous inner lining and a humidity layer. Longer lasting.

This post has been edited by patryn33: Nov 24 2011, 08:15 PM

any sifu here know where i can get a watch box to house my watches?

here,
http://www.malaysiawatchforum.com/index.ph...pic,1601.0.html

any suggestion for budget below 500? wish for leather strap

A new watch for hubby this Christmas. Cannot decide. IWC Portofino or Pilot Mark XVI. Can give suggestions? At the moment he got a metal TAG HUER.
THANK YOU

Portofino




Pilot Mark XVI



This post has been edited by frostfrench: Nov 25 2011, 12:02 PM

both ugly!
get the portfino vintage or a pilot chrono.



This post has been edited by nonexno: Nov 25 2011, 12:08 PM

@frostfrench, get the Mark16, classic IWC pilot watch.

bro my new addition

what is the price and place to remove the scratches off from my watch?
all sifu and taiko please recommend and advise..thanks

This post has been edited by gavinx: Nov 25 2011, 01:50 PM

Lucky hubby~ Between these 2, I vote for Portofino. Classy clean look.

thanks for the link, the box looks good. Did you get 1 ck?

may i know the price of seagull? and hw can i get them?

it is classical iwc, but it is not original pilot watch design. I prefer the orginal pilot watch design.

http://www.seagull.sg/index.php
it varies, some 100+ to 500+ until few k for tourbo
above 3 piece total around sgd 500 since bought it seperately, no bargaining power

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Added on November 25, 2011, 3:12 pmthe discount start from 30% -> depend on your nego power

This post has been edited by ivanswk: Nov 25 2011, 03:12 PM

@h11g, I already got one. haha
@ivanswk, so bling ah bro.

My new watch strap is arrived today all the way from Paris


Su Mesura, made to order strap.


Brand stamped at the back.

Get a Laco bro? Resonable price with original design.
http://www.malaysiawatchforum.com/index.ph...pic,4258.0.html

told u earlier is going to bling, never mind for bash watch, worth 1 round of SPA only
the higher end model is more solid, but at 300 - 500 plus aiseh ... still hard to part with that kind of cash

did you get the box that can fit 10 pieces? or ther 5er?

no la bro .. mine 4 slot only .. gift from wifey

bro 4 slot enough to fit your whole collection?

hai bro..
please pm me that
website link can?

Here's mine in piano black, also a gift from the mrs

PM sent!

in fact, cannot lor .. haha
but is a way to control my purchase

CK needs 10 boxes to house all his collection.... lol

Seagulls are cheap china knockoffs ... they're selling Tourbillons for RM20k ... LoL

My personal favorite JLC Amvox 5, IWC Portofino 8 Days Power Reserve, Patek Calatrava, Richard Mille RM010, Breguet series of Tourbillon watches, Hublot Aryton Senna series, and of course Mont Blanc's R100 and R200 in-house mechanism ... but it's a Mont Blanc ... hate em' Rolex ... So far, I only own a Tag Heuer F1 Kirium since 8 years back, Ball Aviator 46mm, a bunch of G-Shocks, and recently, 2 weeks ago IWC Portuguese Automatic 7 Days Reserve ... I've been saving for 2 years to buy this watch ... love the 7 days pr ...

i love my IWC Portuguese 7 days too

*popcorn

what comment is for frostfrench. U should know me better ck77.

below is the 1940 IWC pilot watch
http://www.calibremagazine.com/node/305


this is the 1940 Wempe B-UHR
http://www.heirloom2.com/military.htm#WEMP...E_HANDSOME_ONE_

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Added on November 26, 2011, 5:02 amwhat to LOL? Seagulls are not knockoffs. they did put their own brand and didn't copy JCL, IWC, PP, Breguet, Hublot design.

yes they sell tourbillon for ~20K, at least they are true tourbillion. workmanship is better than the other Chinese brands Tourbillons.
yes its cheap so whats your pt when U LoL?
http://usseagull.com/EnProduct.asp?ClassID...itle=TOURBILLON

This post has been edited by patryn33: Nov 26 2011, 05:02 AM

What to no LoL? If you do understand the purpose of Tourbillon, you'll notice they're designed to provide extra accuracy, as Tourbillon is supposed to remove the gravity factor from the watch ... therefore making it a little more accurate ...
Go read about Seagull's user review, you'll notice that it is not an accurate watch ... not even COSC certified, and ppl are getting +-2-3 minutes a day. I'd rather save the 20k and buy a piece of shit Rolex/Panerai ... or top up a few thousand more to buy an IWC Chronometer (with modified ETA movement), or RM28k for IWC Automatic 7 Days Power Reserve, or in fact, any COSC certified watch with ETA movement ... My personal opinion, is to never buy cheap movement, or generic movements if you're paying such money for it ... coz you can buy in-house movements ... Rolex for one is in-house, and IMHO it's garbage, because they're being mass produced ... the only watch Rolex is worth looking at is the old Daytona which uses the Zenith movement, which is no longer in circulation ...

woo bro very nice box and nice collection. This one surely cost more than rm1k.

It is sweeping statements like yours that I find to be utterly conceited. Which reviews on Seagull are you referring to? You say better to buy an in-house movement, and then you go on and bash Rolex? Am I missing something here? Good luck, you just stirred the hornet's nest.

Wow 28k? Seriously? I'm impressed, good for you!

I'm not supposed to quote which dealer I bought it for, but I got 32% discount for IWC. Retails for RM42k. I just bought mine 28k brand new from authorized dealer ... go ask around, and if you are buy watches often, you'll know of that huge retailer ...

Rolex is good, but not great. Not worth the money. I don't think I stirred the hornet's nest ... Rolex is like BMW ... if you want to be noticed, buy it ... but ppl who knows mechanical watches, will avoid ... same as BMW ... What makes Rolex famous, is celebrities ... Same as TAG Heuer ... they endorse super stars ... but most ppl know they're piece of shit ... I bought my TAG Heuer 8 years ago ... I just learnt to appreciate watches 5 years ago, and really found out I made the biggest mistake in my life buying TAG Heuer Kirium F1 ... for one, it's TAG, 2nd it's a Quartz ... Quartz movement ain't worth that kind of money ... The only thing good about Rolex is their service center in Malaysia provides excellent service ... unlike the others ... the other service center I can think of that provides excellent service is "BALL" ... they're cheap and fun watch ... great value for money ... they'll do whatever they can to satisfy you ...

Anyway, go to WatchUSeek and you'll find out about all the craps they talk about Rolex ... only good thing about it is it will get you "seen" and it maintains good 2nd hand value ... but a true watch lover will not think about 2nd hand ... coz they'll keep it forever ... like Patek Philippe's motto says it all: "You never actually own a Patek Philippe. You merely look after it for the next generation." .... love the watch ... enjoy it ... take care of it ... pass it on to your children ...

Only 2 best of the best watches but they're out of my league now ... Patek and Breguet ...

LOL, what's wrong with mass production of Rolex movement? mass production with good quality control and you still get +/- 3-5 sec per day for their in house movement with that price, what else you want?

Okay. I'll come back with more reasons, I promise. I love this discussion thingy, as I'm a huge fan of watches.

Let's compare mass production to non-mass-production items in general.

Why don't you buy a Swatch? Swatch Group owns ETA. Which means ETA is in-house mechanical movement for Swatch. There are Swatch models out there within the -4+6sec guideline. Why buy Rolex?

Why buy Mercedes/BMW/etc. when you can buy Proton? Mass produced ... CamPro is a technology developed by Renault, but the patent has been bought over by Proton ... so they own the rights to it ... and it is widely considered/claimed by Proton to be their in-house engine ...

Think economics ... once an item has been produced in mass quantity, price tend to fall ... You can't design a movement 20 years ago, and sell for 20k back then (today's currency with inflation factored in), and sell the same movement for 20k today after selling millions of the same product. Initial cost should be high, because companies need to recoup their investment in research and development ...

IWC / Patek / etc. always come out with new models, with new movements or upgraded/modified/etc. which justifies the whole cost thing ...

Another example ... Will you pay RM300k for latest Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution that's using the first generation Evo engine? Technology advances ... todays in-line 4 - 2.4L engines easily get you 30+miles per gallon ... back then, 20-30 years ago even 1.8L engines can't get 20+miles per gallon ... I just refuse to pay today's technology price, for old technology ...

The best a Rolex could do is 40-70 hours Power Reserve ... the best IWC can do is 7-8 days power reserve ... Patek and Breguet does 10 days ... back then 40 hours Power Reserve is pretty damn good ... but today's standard, at least to me ... for a watch lover, who wears different watch everyday ... go for higher Power Reserve ... or buy em' mechanical boxes ...

More to come ...

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Added on November 26, 2011, 4:06 pmOh yeah I forgot ... I love em' German made watches "Lange and Sohne" and "Glashutte Original" ... I love em' Grand Lange 1

---

Added on November 26, 2011, 4:12 pmHowever, I will give credit when credit is due ... Rolex are great diving watches ... and it's rugged ...

But when you pay such price for a watch, a watch should represent you ... Rolex makes you look rugged ... but I prefer a watch that represents me ... "CLASS" ...

This post has been edited by ytkwong: Nov 26 2011, 04:14 PM

Colour me damned, I just realized I bought a shit Rolex for my Dad,
Passed a garbage Rolex to my wife and wearing a shit Rolex myself.



And, just for discussions sake, as much as you don't like a particular brand, at least have the decency to not label things like shit or garbage, as everyone have their own taste and preferences.... if not, we would all be stuck with 1 watch brand with 1 design.

As industrialization has it, most if not everything is mass produced.
What constitute mass produce? Anything more than 2000? 200k? 2 million?
I would say all of the above.

Brands that you mentioned, are they not mass produced?
Something not seen in the wild does not mean that they are not mass produced. It just means that they are not affordable to the masses.

Statements about price points or wether a watch is "worth" what they are selling it for is subjective.
Some ppl think that an entry level Pam or Rolex at 15k or so is overpriced, obviously some do not. And that is why they are selling as much as they produce.

As much as watch companies make you believe that each and every watch is handcrafted, it is all humbug... the retail price of the watch does not correlate with the cost it takes to produce it.
Watch companies will charge whatever they think the market will support and get away with it. Most of the time they do.

LOL, ytkwong you really have funny point of view.

Really nothing wrong with the brand, it's just a matter how you appreciate it.
Swatch is good watch, ETA produce good movement too, otherwise other company won't get the movement from them.
When you buy something, it is depend you like it or not, your financial afford or not.

It's really nothing wrong with ppl who buy swatch or seiko. They bought it because they like it, it's the price range they affordable, same to the person who buy proton.

Those who bought Merc/BMW while they can buy proton, because they afford it and like it. Nothing wrong with that.

VW group have their 2.0TSI engine widely use on the cars from Audi to Skoda under VW group. There's still many ppl like it. Why, It's good engine, stable and powerful and they buy according to their financial. Rich buy Audi, while normal one go for Skoda. Of coz there will be someone like you to make the same complain to that. But that's how VW success in their business. This same goes to Rolex. As long as quality is there.

Even Patek are using same movement for varies models. for example, calibre 315-SC.

---

Added on November 26, 2011, 4:51 pmagreed with your points.

This post has been edited by silverstan: Nov 26 2011, 05:16 PM

@ytkwong

I don't get your points on mass vs non mass produced items. BMW and Merc sells way more cars than Proton annually, they are definitely more 'mass produced'. People buy Rolex and luxury cars because of the brand prestige and because they can afford it, not based on the production volume.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble but even IWC uses eta and selita base movements. Are you sure you're paying for the R&D costs alone and not for the brand name?

Wearing a watch with PP / AP / VC stamped on the dial does not represent class. It only shows you have money to spend on watches, provided people even think it's the real thing. If you want to begin to grasp the concept of class I suggest you head on to forums such as Styleforum or thekerbau.

This post has been edited by deriku: Nov 26 2011, 05:59 PM

Okay. I'll come back with more reasons, I promise. I love this discussion thingy, as I'm a huge fan of watches.

I am sure all will be waiting

Let's compare mass production to non-mass-production items in general.

Why don't you buy a Swatch? Swatch Group owns ETA. Which means ETA is in-house mechanical movement for Swatch. There are Swatch models out there within the -4+6sec guideline. Why buy Rolex?

From what you say, shouldn't you be buying Swatch as well? Why Glashutte? Why Patek? Why IWC?

Why buy Mercedes/BMW/etc. when you can buy Proton? Mass produced ... CamPro is a technology developed by Renault, but the patent has been bought over by Proton ... so they own the rights to it ... and it is widely considered/claimed by Proton to be their in-house engine ...

All cars are mass produced, even Ferrari or Bentley or Rolls Royce. Wether anyone claims Campro is in house by proton or not is irrelevant.
Your example can be said of IWC as well as some IWC models are using modified ETAs and then claimed as in house? This in house thing is blown out of proportions. I can say that Seiko is as in house as they get. They even make their own lubricant for the movements.
IWC, Patek, Glashutte still outsource some parts from outside... so this is what you call in house?
You wanna go deeper? Do they mine their own steel? Grow cattle to make the straps for the watches? Another humbug "in house" argument.
As to why buy luxury cars when a Proton can do the same job?
Simple, because some can afford it.
As to how they spend their money, it is their god given rights.
We can say all we want but in the end of the day, they are driving the Merc and BMW, not us.

Think economics ... once an item has been produced in mass quantity, price tend to fall ... You can't design a movement 20 years ago, and sell for 20k back then (today's currency with inflation factored in), and sell the same movement for 20k today after selling millions of the same product. Initial cost should be high, because companies need to recoup their investment in research and development ...

Think economics, what you mentioned only works in the electronics and gadget sector.
Who are we to say what watch companies can or can't do? Hell they're doing it... and it's still working.
Prices of watches are not something that can be calculated based on materials or movements.

IWC / Patek / etc. always come out with new models, with new movements or upgraded/modified/etc. which justifies the whole cost thing ...

If you think that new movements upgraded or modified is justified for the price of a watch, then you have the right to believe so.
But in actual fact, luxury watch prices are never justified. It's a business, they are in it to make money.
No matter how much they make you believe that your watch has a special movement or whatnot, it's all marketing gimmick.
Watches are personal, some ppl like this and some like that. No 2 person are alike.
Some value watches on brand alone, some like designs no matter what brand, some like theirs expensive, some like theirs affordable and dependable.
BTW, there's a saying "why recreate the wheel?"
Rolex designs is stale but they make improvements all the time.
Alot of people do not know and Roles is a very secretive company.
Name me 1 watch that can look good on anyone male or female thin or fat tall or short? I can... A Rolex Submariner.

Another example ... Will you pay RM300k for latest Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution that's using the first generation Evo engine? Technology advances ... todays in-line 4 - 2.4L engines easily get you 30+miles per gallon ... back then, 20-30 years ago even 1.8L engines can't get 20+miles per gallon ... I just refuse to pay today's technology price, for old technology ...

The best a Rolex could do is 40-70 hours Power Reserve ... the best IWC can do is 7-8 days power reserve ... Patek and Breguet does 10 days ... back then 40 hours Power Reserve is pretty damn good ... but today's standard, at least to me ... for a watch lover, who wears different watch everyday ... go for higher Power Reserve ... or buy em' mechanical boxes ...

So from what you're saying, longer power reserve (30+ miles per gallon) = new technology
Short power reserve (20+ miles a gallon) = low technology?
Internal Combustion Engine alone is low tech, no matter how many miles you can squeeze out of a gallon.
Same like the swiss pellet fork and wheel escapement.
And most watches is using it even the brands that you named that get's your respect so much.
Longer power reserve? Add in an extra mainspring barrel and power reserve is at least doubled or more.
It's just like adding another fuel tank. Of course fuel costs money but the winding of the watch doesn't. But you get the drift.

More to come ...

Oh yeah I forgot ... I love em' German made watches "Lange and Sohne" and "Glashutte Original" ... I love em' Grand Lange 1
However, I will give credit when credit is due ... Rolex are great diving watches ... and it's rugged ...

But when you pay such price for a watch, a watch should represent you ... Rolex makes you look rugged ... but I prefer a watch that represents me ... "CLASS" ...

A watch does not represent you. It just represent that you like to tell time by looking at your wrists.
A person wearing a Seiko can have "class" because when you carry yourself well, well mannered with a good personality. Then you have class.
A Taikor AhLong Loanshark can have plenty of money to afford a Grand Lange 1 or a Frank Muller Giga Tourbillion but does he instantly have "class" ?

Agreed with hanz079.

my watch is also accessories of my daily outfit, depend on the color and style.
i wear them depend on how i want them to match it with my outfit.
i have varies brands in my collection, i appreciate every watch i bought..
from seiko, archimede, stowa, tag heuer, rolex, jaeger-lecoultre, iwc to patek philippe.

This post has been edited by silverstan: Nov 26 2011, 06:59 PM

People who "knows" mechanical watches will know that Rolex is a pioneer of alot of what we see in today's watches.
People who thinks Rolex is famous because of the celebrity it endorses does not "know" watches.
Let me ask you something, when you buy your Tag Kirium, what makes you choose it? Brand recognition? Design?
I do not know but what I know is most of the consumer was like how you were 8 years ago.
And in one way or another you are also sucked in by these adverts.
That's how you can quote Patek's tagline.
How many will take the extra steps to find out what goes behind a brand name? Most won't.
What people know is normally what the salespeople tell them, and the salespeople will say anything to move watches.

People in WUS bashing Rolex? Well, on the internet, we can find anyone bashing anything... nothing is perfect but we should not take it at face value.
A true watch lover will not laugh at what other people have on the wrists, they will appreciate a person's unique taste and what he chooses.
A true watch lover will appreciate everything about watches. The beauty, history, work and most of all is emotional attachment.
A Grandpa's or Dad's heirloom Seiko will worth more than anything in the world because it carries sentimental value and history with it.
You remember seeing it on their wrists all the time and now it has passed to you.
It's no Patek but it's your Grandpa's watch.

Any watch lover will look at 2nd hand because it is just another way of getting a watch that is either out of circulation or discontinued.
Every watch lover will think that the next watch they buy will be the last and they will pass it on to the next generation but in actual fact, when one "grail" watch have been bought, another "grail" mysteriously appears and the lust continues.
In the end, the one that your next generation remembers is the G-shock or Seiko beater that you wear most of the time because the more expensive ones were never worn that frequently.

No offence but I find it comical that you have learnt how to appreciate fine watches for 5 years.
Oh, and a BMW will not get you noticed... it's just a BMW... I can drive my el cheapo rusted Datsun with rainbow paint job and a hello kitty stickers and get noticed more.
As for watches, believe it or not, for every 100 people you meet everyday, most of the time, maybe not 1 will ask what you're wearing or notice what you're wearing.

This post has been edited by hanz079: Nov 26 2011, 07:26 PM

I guess it was my mistake, I apologize for calling certain brands "garbage/piece of shit". I guess I'll just clarify myself. What I meant was, those brand are not worth the money. It's like paying RM300k for a Proton Saga. Some of you do have your points right, to some, a Proton is in fact worth RM300k, but not to me.

One of you did mention about my taste 8 years ago, as to purchase a Quartz Kirium F1 TAG Heuer. Back then, I was only 21 yr old. I was young, and naive, or shall I say, I was totally new to luxury watches. It was a watch from my mother, as a gift. I went for purely look, and functions. Only to regret it years later, after evolving, learning to appreciate the beauty of the engine that drives a mechanical watch. I've found out that Quartz/Digital watches are simple watches to produce, can be easily produced. The most important part of it is an integrated chip that stores all the algorithm to record time, and of course a battery to power it up. Whereas a mechanical watch consists of many separate pieces, and in same cases, are handcrafted and installed piece by piece. After reading the history of mechanical watches, and how a movement was designed, I learned to love mechanical watches, as though it is an art. I'd compare Quartz vs Mechanical, to Photos taken by cameras, to pictures drawn by painters. Once you understand how much effort is being spent on it, only would one truly appreciate the final product. But of course, there are ppl out there who prefer camera pictures than hand drawn, as they believe it looks more realistic.

There's also another reason why I didn't quite like TAG Heuer. After owning the watch for 2 years, I needed to have the batteries replaced. So I sent it to KL Plaza's service center. After they serviced it, which I believe they didn't seal it properly, or a small amount of water moisture went in, and the chrome hour/minute/second hands had moist corrosion approximately 2 months after service. I took it back to to KL Plaza and blamed them, but they refuse to take the blame for it. Anyhow, I had them chrome hands replaced for RM1100 (and I still have the receipts as of today), and guess what? 3-4 months later, same shit happened. I brought the issue up, and my brother told me he warned me against buying a TAG Heuer, but I ignored, as he had same issues with his watch TAG Heuer 4000 Series Automatic back in the days, and my Uncle's 4000 Series too. Time wasn't accurate from day one, and sent for servicing, the watch became way too fast. I'm talking about tens of minutes too fast. Tried numerous times to fix it.

The way I look at things are pretty simple ... a brand is as good as it's service center ... technicians at TAG Heuer's service center in Malaysia are not qualified at all ... for as long as I remain in Malaysia, I would at least avoid that brand. That's also a reason why I avoided purchasing Zenith. I loved Zenith, but I went with IWC instead because of this sole reason.

Why I insist on in-house mechanism? I just believe that spending RM20k on a watch, is a luxury. I'm not a super rich person. That's why I would like to believe if I spent RM20k on a watch, it better be worth the money. In-house technology represents how deep that company/brand is into "it" ... Why would I buy a RM20k watch that uses an ETA mechanism that's found in watches under RM1k? Just for the design? Someone also mentioned Audi/VW/Skoda using the same 2.0TFSI engine, I appreciate it. But that's different, they are all owned by Volkswagen Group, IMHO. But we're comparing Apples and Oranges, there's nothing wrong with TAG Heuer using Zenith engines, because they're both sister companies under one same roof. Unlike cheaper watches like "BALL", which is a USA company, but purchases engines from ETA, and modify it, and sell the watch as it's own name. Don't get me wrong, I'm a BALL WATCH fan, as I own a Ball Aviator 46mm, it is indeed a very beautiful and great watch, for the money. I paid RM5500 less 32% discount for it. It was worth every single cent of it. As good as the Ball Aviator is, there is no way I would pay RM20k for it. Funny thing is, on certain days, my Ball is actually more accurate than my IWC. So value doesn't just rely 100% on how accurate it is. Also, if you guys ever seen and tried on the actual IWC Portuguese Automatic, look at the back of the watch, the mechanism itself is a true beauty, and I fell for it at first sight after looking at it. I've seen countless generic movements, and none look like the IWC I currently own. To fit everything in that small encasement, and pump up 7 days worth of power, to me is still a great invention/design. I hope you guys understand where I'm coming from.

Please don't come comparing classics to what I'm talking about. A 1960 Ferrari is considered classic, because they're built in 1960, and back then the engine in it was a "GREAT INVENTION". If you build the same model today, and put in the same engine, please do note this, built in 2011, the cost of that particular Ferrari will not cost the same. However what I was referring to regarding the old mechanism/technology, is a Brand New Ferrari, built, and installed with a 1960 engine, I'm willing to bet you whatever I have, it will not make it classic, and therefore not make it super expensive, because it is not classic. But I know, since it is still a Ferrari, the price will be expensive, but it will not be as expensive as a Classic 1960 Ferrari.


I didn't claim that IWC's are fully in-house, they do have movements supplied by ETA, for eg, one of my favorite is IWC Portuguese Chronograph, it has a modified ETA movement, and it costs RM22k after discount. I think it looks great, and is cheaper than the Portuguese Automatic I purchased, but I didn't buy it for the fact that it runs a generic engine. But of course, that is my personal point of view.

I just hope that I didn't really push the limit too much, as it seemed as though everyone is pretty pissed at me for dissing Rolex. I've claimed that Rolex are great watches for diving purposes, and of course the Submariners do look good. But somehow, I just don't think it is worth the price. If you own a Rolex, be happy about it, as a lot of ppl couldn't afford one, and I for one don't own one. Ppl do purchase luxury items so that it could in a way provide a sense of satisfaction, and it is very hard to justify. But again I emphasize that a Proton Saga costing RM300k could probably provide me with a sense of satisfaction as I drive around in it, but it will not provide the same amount/level of satisfaction as though I owned a RM300k Mercedes. But of course, I'd always go for the SATISFACTION/DOLLAR factor.

Anyway, everything written above are solely my humble opinion, nothing but an opinion. Wasn't intended to make enemies here.

Cheers. I'll be back.

P.S. Why I also prefer other brands over Rolex? I can wear an IWC daily, walking through the markets/etc. without having to fear that someone would chop my hands off. I enjoy luxury at my own expense, for my own pleasure only. I don't do it just so that others would notice me, and put my life under jeopardy. My watch is something that I look at it everytime and it gives me the sense of satisfaction that only I, myself, most of the time know ... unlike a Rolex ... I bet you, go to a wet market, ask any random person if they recognize or heard of a Rolex, almost 99%, if not 100% ppl know about it. But try JLC, IWC, Patek, Breguet, Hublot, Richard Mille, etc. it'd be a miracle if more than 1 out of 5 person recognize even one of those mentioned brands. But don't quote me on statistics, I'm just trying to make a point, that's it.

This post has been edited by ytkwong: Nov 26 2011, 08:34 PM

That's more like a civilized discussion.
As for the IWC 7 days, I don't own one but I am sure they are smashing watches.
But they do receive complains on being inaccurate.
Not within COSC but I am not sure about wether the movement is COSC certified?

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f350/7-day-mo...oll-331774.html

Anyway, I got commented that my watch is a fake the other day when I was wearing this.



He said that I wear it on a fabric strap because the bracelet quality is the easiest way to spot a fake.
That's why I wear it on "fabric strap"
He's wearing an Omega Planet Ocean and he thinks the co-axial escapement is the "greatest" invention in the world of watchmaking.
Uhhh.... ok... he is entitled to his opinion.

I would love to own an IWC Inge one day.

About getting your hands chopped off over a Rolex, I have no such fears as I drive a Proton and most will think it's fake.
Anyone and everyone knows Rolex... that's the brand.
It's their success and also a curse sometimes.

This post has been edited by hanz079: Nov 26 2011, 09:03 PM

1st do u understand the use of Tourbillion?
it is use in pocket watch for a good reason. on the wrist.. hmm.. u go read 1st.
regulating a Tourbillion for a wrist watch that is used in so many orientation is very hard.

when did U get your IWC at 28K pretty good deal for a new watch i think.

if U getting a Zenith EP, even the technicians here in US cannot do a good job, they need to be shipped back to Swiss every 5yrs. Tag service centre not doing a good job complain to HQ is Switzerland u can get your watch done there.

COSC - go read about it, once u bring your watch for service it is no longer COSC. it was once certified COSC. if a watch maker F**k up and COSC watches also produce lemons.

German Chronometer - have U read how they do things and the difference with COSC?

Ball is about making watches, don't confuse making watches = making movements.

with regards to if ppl would pay $20K for a ETA movement watch, I am sure u can find those ppl. don't forget eta movement come in different grades.

---

Added on November 26, 2011, 9:05 pmI get that many times already.. LOL

This post has been edited by patryn33: Nov 26 2011, 09:14 PM

Interesting opinions.

Quote from the watch snob " Then there is the mighty Rolex. Would I put Rolex up with Patek or A Lange & Sohne? Not for a second. But, do I consider it a very important step above IWC, Zenith and even Vacheron? Most certainly. The reason is this: People care about Rolex; nobody really cares about those other brands. There are dedicated forums to Rolex, get-togethers, books, you name it. When was the last time you saw a Vacheron event or a book about IWC that people actually bought? Sure, their movement may be in slightly better shape than your average Rolex (debatable, surely), but in 20 years, your Rolex will be worth something -- and everything else will be scrap metal."

Read more: http://www.askmen.com/fashion/mens-watches...l#ixzz1eofk8Ade

Personally i collect watches based on models, not such much on brands. From a WIS point of view, there are certain pieces from various brands such as rolex (sub & datejust), iwc (Portuguese), omega (speedmaster), JLC (reverso, memovox etc), Zenith (el primero), PP (calatrava) that are classics. To me, those are worth buying.

Well, different people have different views. At the end of the day, just buy anything that makes you happy. I mean seriously, its just a watch.

Bro, you have to check what brand swatch group own, (from wiki)
Breguet, Blancpain, Glashütte Original, Jaquet Droz, Léon Hatot, Omega, Longines, Rado, Union Glashütte, Tissot, Calvin Klein Watches + Jewelry, Balmain, Certina, Mido, Hamilton, Swatch, Flik Flak, Endura and Tourbillon.
Some of the brands they are sharing same engine too. LOL

For those not belong to swatch group, that's because ETA calibre is reliable, that's why other companies also using it, of coz for business point of view that's the way to make profit.

Let's not forget, because Swatch group owns ETA and Breguet, Blancpain, Glashütte Original, Jaquet Droz, Léon Hatot, Omega, Longines, Rado, Union Glashütte, Tissot, Calvin Klein Watches, Balmain, Certina, Mido, Hamilton, Swatch, Flik Flak, Endura and Tourbillon, it means that all these brands technically are using "in-house" movement.

Man, this "in house" thing is getting pretty tiring ain't it?

All the brands under Swatch group are using in house movements.
Reason being Swatch owns ETA and ETA manufactures movements.

A stock ETA movement with improvements and modifications also considered in house.
Reason being because the watch manufacturer said so.

A base movement bought from Seiko and then modified also considered in house.
Reason being the Boss at Tag said that the improvements made to the movement is enough to consider the movement "100% in house" (that's what the brochure said)

All Seiko watches using in house designed and manufactured movements down to the hairspring and lubricant.
Yet most people have no clue.

Go figure man....

I remember back in the days when people are arguing over what constitutes "Swiss Made"

This post has been edited by hanz079: Nov 26 2011, 10:12 PM

LOL, let's not keep 'discuss' on this topic. let's share more pics so others can enjoy this thread.

Yes I agree...

Let me start.
Since there's alot of talk on in house, I hope my watches are up to standard.

My Zenith Chronomaster El Primero XXT.


And my old Zenith El Primero HW. (uses the same base movement as the Daytona. Only without the automatic winding)