Licensed Maintenance Aircraft Engineers' Guide

Job Description & Responbilities
Licensed Aircraft Engineer(LAE) job is to certify maintenance work, eg: a component is to be changed , u will have a group of mechanic working for u, you instruct them what to do, observe it, once it done u have to approve it, then if anything happen on that component or a/c crash due to that task u approve, they will look for you, you'll be held responsible
and another one is to carry out inspection, repairs, mods etc (all this is the simplest way of explanation)

For better understandings, refer HERE

Requirements & Ways to become a LAME
Basically, to be a LAME u need the License and not diploma/degree or others. That is the only requirement for a LAME. There are 2 types of license to be able to become a LAME.

Type of license/rating available

For Bcar Section L

A-Airframe(Structure of the aircraft)
C-Engine

X-Electrical and Instrument
R-Radio

usually A and C is combined and E, I, R is combined

For Easa

Cat. B1 for A,C,E(Airframe, Engine and Electrical)
-B1.1 Aeroplanes Turbine-Engines
-B1.2 Aeroplanes Piston-Engines
-B1.3 Helicopters Turbine-Engines
-B1.4 Helicopters Piston-Engines

Cat. B2 For E.I.R(Electrical, Instrument and Radio)

EASA - The European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) was set up to promote the highest common standards of safety and environmental protection in civil aviation. It is intended to be the centrepiece of a new cost-efficient regulatory system in Europe and a reliable partner for equivalent authorities throughout the world.

As EASA develops the aviation regulatory environment it will change some of the existing CAA processes and procedures. These pages will keep you informed of the changes along with updates on how CAA is responding to the changes.

BCAR - British Civil Airworthiness Requirements (BCAR) which is similar to Easa.

Obtaining license via Easa system :-

Easa requirement is completion of all easa modules/courses/subjects and 2 yrs (for part 147) or 5 yrs(for self obtained license) of experience.

There are 3 basic ways, they are :-
1.Obtain it yourself-Need 5 years of aircraft experience (workschedule) and completion of all the EASA modules
2.Obtaining the license through a Part 147 EASA approved training school, Completion of all the Modules and 2 yrs of experience(workschedule) with minimum 2400 hours of instruction/course
3.Obtain it through Nilai, Miat, Metc, APR -Not so sure on this one (got Easa and Bcar), Need SPM and maybe some Diploma as well



Reference on becoming LAME using EASA system :-
Engineer's Licensing Guidance Document (ELGD)

Obtaining license via Bcar system :-

For Bcar, please read the following and download and understand both AN5 - Application For Malaysian Aircaft Maintenance Engineers Licence and AN85 - Approval Of Training Organisations

Extracts from BCAR Section L. Please read and understand the whole requirements.
I highlighted in bold items that you need to be well aware of.

Download here.



To make it easier to understand, on gettin LWTR either through EASA or Bcar is actually the same. Its jz that both possesses different ways of getting LWTR and different recognition in different part of the world.
e.g. EASA is recognized in Europe while Bcar is recognized in MAS and AA as DCA using Bcar.
The ways of getting the LWTR overally are :-
1. By pursuing a diploma in aircraft maintenance(for example) in any institutions such as MIAT, TAFE, NIUC, Polytechnic etc. Through this way, u'll b able to get ur dip cert n a LWTR.
2. By undergo TAME programme from airliners company. This is the best way after all as the company will provide u free trainings and allowances bt u most probably will b "bonded" to tat company. Chances are rather low as those companies will only take about 30+/- trainee at a time. e.g. MAS, AirAsia, Transmile..etc
3. By gettin the license through a EASA Part 147 school in overseas. This option will cost alot. e.g. University of Glamorgan(nt sure if its spell like dis).

Normally the duration to obtain a LWTR is about 5 yrs. Before taking ur LWTR exam, u nid 2/3 yrs of theory(studies) n about 2 yrs of experience. Experience can be gained either by OJT (On Job Training), Practical or Working. After u got ur LWTR, u still unable sign off any aircrafts, you still can work but u need somene else with the approriate license to sign the CRS(certificate of release to service) for u. So, you still nid a particular Type Rating to be able to sign off the CRS(certificate of release to service) of the particular aircraft!



Opinions and Advices








Salary
The pay is different for each airlines, but for MAS, it should be around 3k+ without overtime for a fresh LAE with a single aircraft type rating.The allowance will be paid depending on how many trade (A,C,E,I,R) and how many type rating (737,747,a330,777, etc). Air asia should be more i think. For contract/expatriate LAE, they earn a lot.





Related Links and Downloads :
Complete Guide : How to enter Polytechnic Diploma Aircraft Maintenance (DAM) Course and PROS AND CONS by JohnMax
APR(Aviation Training Centre)
UniKL MIAT
Nilai University College(NUC)
TAFE College
EASA Part 66 License Guide
Joint Aviation Authorities (JAA)
EASA Part 66
EASA Part 145
EASA Part 147
Foreign(NOT Europe) EASA Part 145 approved organisations
Foreign(NOT Europe) EASA Part 147 approved organisations
SIA Engineering Company

Credits :-
azameel
jazzy939
JohnMax
Lestat
ezi23
hakunamatata
tarecore
kevin77

AND MORE TO GO...~!

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ok i hav volunteered myself doin a guide on dis career from dis thread LAME

1st of all, i hav totally no idea bout dis career bt wans 2 noe more bout it, so those who gt knoewledge bout it would b rather appreciated 2 help out!!

ill discover all my questions n others questions on the 1st page n those who is sure bout it giv us the detailed info. ill try 2 update it day by day n eventually makin it into a guide.

u guys hav 2 help fill up as much info as possible in the 1st page, so tat every1 would hav a better understandings, ok?


NOTE :
1. when givin info, plz state in a specific way n if cn plz givs sum opinions, recomendations n related info
2. plz giv in full terms n short-form words. eg. Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (LAME)
3. providin diagram n links would be bonus

alrite every1 lets make it happen!

This post has been edited by XxAC3xX: Feb 26 2009, 10:48 PM

LAE job is to certify maintenance work, eg: a component is to be changed , u will have a group of mechanic working for u, you instruct them what to do, observe it, once it done u have to approve it, then if anything happen on that component or a/c crash due to that task u approve, they will look for you, you'll be held responsible
and another one is to carry out inspection, repairs, mods etc (all this is the simplest way of explanation)

The pay is different for each airlines, but for MAS, it should be around 3k+ without overtime for a fresh LAE with a single aircraft type rating.The allowance will be paid depending on how many trade (A,C,E,I,R) and how many type rating (737,747,a330,777, etc). Air asia should be more i think. For contract/expatriate LAE, they earn a lot. I've seen
a foreign contract lae, who worked in MAS who got around RM100+ to around RM200 per hour.

Type of license/rating available

For Bcar Section L

A-Airframe(Structure of the aircraft)
C-Engine

E-Electrical
I-Instrument
R-Radio

usually A and C is combined and E, I, R is combined

For Easa

Cat B1 for A,C,E
Cat B2 For E.I.R

Reference on becoming LAME using EASA system

Engineer's Licensing Guidance Document (ELGD)

Three basic ways of obtaining license via Easa system

1.Obtain it yourself-Need 5 years of aircraft experience (workschedule) and completion of all the EASA modules
2.Obtaining the license through a Part 147 EASA approved training school, Completion of all the Modules and 2 yrs of experience(workschedule)
3.Obtain it through Nilai, Miat, Metc, APR -Not so sure on this one (got Easa and Bcar), Need SPM and maybe some Diploma as well

If any information is wrong, kindly enlighten me

This post has been edited by azameel: Feb 3 2009, 06:33 PM

Why is this under 'Education Essentials'? Jobs & Careers should be more apt as per original thread?

I have a question.
Just say I'm doing a bachelor degree and I want to be an LAME. What are the steps that needs to be taken as soon as I graduate?

Even i also got confused where this thread belong to, it is a mixed up of both section.

BillySteel, as far as i know, you have to start all over again, because diploma / degree doesnt count in the licensing system.

or you could opt for Technical Service Engineers which requires a degree holder or Cat C Easa which im not familliar at all

This post has been edited by azameel: Feb 3 2009, 01:33 AM

dis thread is actually a guide-to-be for those who dont noe bout dis career, so openin it in education essentials is more suitable...

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Added on February 3, 2009, 3:23 amthx, azameel

i hav sum questions...
1. LAME job requirements, eg. experience, education, training
2. so lets say after spm, wats the path available n wat course or programme shud b taken??
3. from the 2 paths u hav stated,
-1.Obtain it yourself-Need 5 years of aircraft experience (workschedule) and completion of all the EASA modules
-2.Obtaining the license through a Part 147 EASA approved training school, Completion of all the Modules and 2 yrs of experience(workschedule)
try explain more specifiedly on how n whr plz...
4. DCA requirement and EASA requirement (since some college doing EASA)
5. list of college that provide training (including fees, years, advantages).
6. wat is DCA, Bcar n Part 147??
7. from wat u said, thr will b a group of mechanic working for lae, so the group of mechanics r these ppl in the link? o we r them?
Aircraft Mechanics & Service Technicians
Avionics Technicians
8. since a group of mechanics workin 4 lae, so a lae dun hav 2 do those heavy jobs n get their hands dirty?


mind explain wats their differences, hw was their salaries n their responbilities for flight engineer n aircraft tech service engineer??

uhh...found it quite confusing.....
keep it on guys...!!
once again thx to azameel!!

This post has been edited by XxAC3xX: Feb 3 2009, 04:03 AM

I only know that LAME maintain aircrafts. Then there are aeronautical engineers who engineer aircrafts.

musty study oversea?

Nope you can study locally

First of all dont get confuse, while we may called it a LAME, easa system classify lae as a technician. So basically mechanics = junior tech./mechanic and LAME = Service Technician


- Bcar section L license or Easa Part 66 Cat B1/B2 License,
-Experience is needed to obtain the license, no education qualification
needed for the license, but for the Nilai, Miat etc, depends on their
program

2. To obtain the license there is two best way, either by Miat, Nilai, Metc,
Apr etc. these are local institution. You need SPM for this
For The other option, The part 147 one, i think it is not available locally,
try to look for it on the net.But its i going to be expensive without any
loan.For both of this program, you will follow the
Institution program, no need to do anything else other than completing
the program, everything should be instructed by them.


-Easa requirement is completion of all easa ,module/courses/subject
and 2 yr (for part 147) or 5 years(for self obtained license) of experience
-For BCAR, refer here BCAR SECTION L and also download and read this AN5 - Application For Malaysian Aircaft Maintenance Engineers Licence and also this AN85 - Approval Of Training Organisations


- DCA is Department of Civil Aviation or JPA, Jabatan Penerbangan
Awam, it is the local aviation authorities, BCAR is British Civil
Airworthiness Requirements whisch is simillar to Easa, but later on
Easa will be replacing it.Part 147 is just a code name of an Easa
Approved training school.


We are them, but usually we dont do the dirty jobs, we just instruct
them to do the task, but a good LAE should be involved in the job,
since it is your responsibility if anything goes wrong, not the
mechanic.But it all depends on the task, if it were a simple task we
just instruct them to, then we have to inspect once it is done and
approved it. If it is a major job, LAE involvement on the task should
be more.

Flight Engineers is those who are in the cockpit during flight, ypu can see a third person in the cockpit whose job is to monitor all the aircraft system,but it is now almost obsolete since most aircarft now only need tow crew to fly. Flight engineer is replaced by computers

Tech service engineer are those who need to do calculation and all.Simillar to a normal engineer.If some modification is needed but not available in the Maintenance Manual, they are the one who should handle this, whether by coming out with their own solution or directly from the manufacturer (Boeing, Airbus).Salary im not sure

*Update on license/rating at my first post

This post has been edited by azameel: Feb 4 2009, 11:20 PM

Sa, I have a question. After I finish my diploma aircraft maintenance. Should I continue my degree in MIAT/oversea first or become Jr.Tech?



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I have no right to answer you question, cause im still under training as well,same like you.
But IMHO, just continue the degree first, but LAME wont be suitable for u anymore. Since got degree maybe you prefer to become Tech Service Engineer. And getting a license from a junior tech is not easy as it looks,
you will get tempted to do overtime(no time to study or take license), or maybe get settled down with the current condition etc, you need a big motivation to upgrade to lae.But nothing is impossible

Big question.
Can some one explain for me Different between TAME, LAME, METC and what they study for?
How to get into these LAME? TAME? METC?

p/s: cause want to leave the white mouse world and enter a new experience world. Why I am doing DCA work schedule but till today I only knew taht need to register with DCA so that the work papers will valid..... Is this true?


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LAME is License Aircraft Maintenance Engineer
TAME is Trainee Aircraft Maintenance Engineer
METC is Malaysia Airlines Engineering Training Centre

TAME study for Bcar secton L license
METC started of with EASA license system, but not sure currently still continuing Easa or had revert to BCAR

For TAME in MAS, there is no more intake, they train the new tame through METC, but sadly, METC only take FELDA people, since it is some sort of partnership program.

If im not air asia had a TAME program of their own, try to look around

i dont quite understand the workschedule part.What should be registered?
What Work paper?

AC3 or Azameel,
u should include in top post the link to DCA publication, AN no. 5 and AN no. 85.

LAME doesn't require degree. u can pursue LAME while doing the diploma (a handful of MIAT dip holder already got it) but it's a separate process. Diploma is given by the school, license is given by DCA. whether u can become jr tech or not, really depends on employer requirement. generally they require diploma.

don't get intimidated by those who said LAME is HUGE, HARD n LONG struggle.
personally, it's easy
just get the requirements checked.



TAME is generally a program created by aviation companies to train in-house their own LAME.
METC is a school, some sort of division under MAS to carry TAME n other training program probably exclusively for MAS

work schedule papers is certified by the engineer u are working with (Malaysia LAME). mistaken with something else may be?

Questions again:

1) Doing DCA Schedue Of Inspection Work. Before this, do we need to register with DCA before starting to do work paper? (I do not know anything about this thing). And I heard my senior who graduate from polytechnic and finish his 1 year for the dca work paper and easa cap 741. And someone told them that they did not register something with DCA and now not recognize. Now is my year to start DCA.
2) That mean my chances to become LAME is a huge long way (I mean be Jr.Tech and study own..[posible gone as said will not continue study and feed in job] to get it after my diploma?
3) After my diploma and i went for BSc [Hons] Aircraft Maintenance Engineering in University of Glamorgan and come back. Is there any chances to become LAME?
4) Does there anyway to go direct to LAME after my diploma?
5) AirAsia TAME is taken from TAFE? Intake Is not directly from AirAsia?
4) I need someone who have MSN, Yahoo chatting so that I can communicate/info more easily.

Finnaly I am a polytechnic student.

p/s: I dono what the hell im doing!!??


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yup, maybe my explanation is a bit confusing,
not even a diploma, im an spm leaver and currently pursuing LAME
for the license there is no educational requirement, but it depends on the institution or the employer like u mentioned

1)That is called workschedule, you were like me, i started of collecting workschedule for the easa cap 741 but now i have to change to dca workschedule, you just collect the task and signature first, at least you'll be prepared early,

usually people withh degree doesnt become lame, they will pursue for technical service engineer instead.

It is not a long struggle, you have to very hardworking then you should have no problem. Which is kind of my problem, a bit lazy


in my opininion,the best way is to work first, get enough experience/workschedule and go for easa exams

This post has been edited by azameel: Feb 3 2009, 11:06 PM

what the course call? which Uni or College offer?

Answers to;
Q1. The question is in a mess. What DCA registration is this?
Q2. Short or long, it's how you decide the path. Ex diploma holders, 5 years. You start from the beginning, level zero.
Q3. Nope.Not directly. You start again from scratch just like everyone else.
Q4. You don't have LWTR, how to become LAME? Looks like you're not clear how this works.
Q5. Not really. Ex school leavers, diploma holders, some with degree also got.

Yes.. I can see that you're 'lost'…


This post has been edited by jazzy939: Feb 4 2009, 08:18 AM

JohnMax,
May be this would help.

DCA's AN No. 5




Attached File(s)
 DCA_Malaysia_Airworthiness_Notices_No.5.pdf ( 977.03k ) Number of downloads: 1296

I'm not a LAME student. LAME pros please answer this.

In a nutshell:
Extracts from BCAR Section L. Please read and understand the whole requirements.
I highlighted in bold items that you need to be well aware of.

Download here.

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2 Eligibility

2.1 Prior to the grant/extension of a Licence an applicant shall be not less than:
a) 20 years of age for a LWTR;
b) 21 years of age for a Type Rating.
An application may be made no more than three months in advance of these ages.

2.2 An applicant for the grant/extension of a Licence shall:

a) submit an application which is acceptable in content and presentation;
b) provide evidence of acceptable experience and any training course requirements
relevant to the application;
c) be able to read, write, interpret technical reports and carry out technical
discussions in the English language;
d) reach a satisfactory standard in any examinations required;
e) pay the appropriate fee.

3 Application for a Licence Without Type Rating (LWTR)
3.1 Before applying for the grant or extension of a LWTR, an applicant must have passed
all necessary written examinations as described in Chapter L3.

4 Experience Requirements – LWTR
4.1 Categories – A, C, X and R
Applications for the grant or extension of a Licence in any of these Categories (except
Category ‘X’ – Compass Compensation and Adjustment, for which see paragraph 3.4)
must show confirmed minimum specific periods of aviation maintenance engineering
experience totalling 3 years.

4.1.1 Applications must also show the following minimum experience, which must have
been gained whilst maintaining operating aircraft and not in component workshops or
on static or non-flying aircraft:a) for a Category ‘A’ and/or ‘C’ LWTR, 24 months relating to Airframe and/or Engine
maintenance, 12 months of which must be in the 2 years immediately preceding
the date of application.
b) for any Category ‘R’ and/or ‘X’ LWTR (excluding Category ‘X’ – Compass
Compensation and Adjustment), 24 months related to avionic systems, 12 months
of which must be in the 2 years immediately preceding the date of application.
c) 6 months, within the 12 months referred to in (a) and (b), relevant to the specific
LWTR for which application is being made.

This post has been edited by jazzy939: Feb 4 2009, 08:44 AM

There you go, a complete guide on BCAR section L by jazzy939.

To be a LAME u need the License. not diploma/degree or others.
that is the only requirement for a LAME

The license can be obtained using The BCAR Section L like what jazzy939 state down and another option would be through the EASA PART66 Personnel Licensing

There is some college/uni which offer this program such as the NILAI COLLEGE which is using the EASA PART66 or METC, MIAT etc

I understand now, I need to direct take LWTR not diploma and degree.

Information I get for today at XXX:
1) Work under MAS as staff, coporation with formen and go for LWTR at MAS training school is free. (100%)
2) Work under Mas as contract staff, want to get course can need to pay(individual)...but depend on company. But chances are like 10 pages of Harry Potter Books... (Still need update)
3) METC is totally free, and instuctor is from MAS training school... (still need update)
4) METC exam or ?? fail also get job at MAS. What I heard is 100% get job. Not much motivated. (I wonder is this true?)
5) AirAsia got courses, but have to pay for your own. This people are 100% motivated because they pay to study. Like RM500 a course than pay by cash. (Still need update)
6) Polytechnic Diploma Aircraft Maintenance = EASA CAT A. (still need update)

P/S: What I tell is what I heard. 100% sure or not is up to you(I also not sure, still searching for more info, but spoke by someone who is experience enough) . B. Any missclaim I am sorry.


I found that I get these files info from someone. But I dont part of inside what they talking.



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From what i know metc only brings felda people in, no intake for public.Few of the instructor are ex-mas. but I do see METC trainee having courses in MAS training school. If they fail they arent allowed to take license, maybe they are downgraded to become junior tech./mech

JohnMax, what are you doing right now actually?

if everybody knows that to be LAME u need no academic qualification, traing school such as MIAT, Nilai, etc should already flush their aviation courses down the toilet. Here comes AN no 85. Skip all the rubbish, go straight to paragraph 6. im not going to quote, READ. i've even pointed where to read. u guys should've read AN no 5 too, thanks to mr. jazzy. he got his hand dirty to quote for u guys.


Let's play a game,

Guy A start working in aviation and gather experience to go for LWTR (As per AN no 5). don't ask how he suddenly start working in aviation
Guy B go to DCA-approved training school (As per AN no 85).
Guy C go to a university in UK and pursue EASA license.
Guy D pursue EASA license locally in Malaysia.
Guy E join TAME program with an airliner.

Which guy can sign off an aircraft and get big bucks first?
Jazzy, any other option i missed?

the winner get prosperity burger .. DOUBLE!
while stock last

Im suffering from what I found for my self. Being in the wrong field to get to LAME. My First batch senior rumors is they maybe will be contract staff in MAS. If it does, I will leave now to change my patch. Because this will waste my time become contract staff like you said before, when working no mood to study cause overtime. and motivated is a must for me.
As I said 2) Work under Mas as contract staff, want to get course can need to pay(individual)...but depend on company. But chances are like 10 pages of Harry Potter Books... (Still need update)
So to go out for this is a miracle and is miserable. Wrong path of live is a must to correct since early.
Any motivation or any idea for me to continue to LAME? with short way. Cause I know I can do it with express way, but the chances is not there...

Lestat, my answer wud be GUY E, provided he didnt screw up during his training..I think that those who join TAME programme wif airlines will have a faster path of becoming an LAE( in 5 years)..almost everything is planned n structured inlcuding OJT n type course..all u got to do is work ur a$$ out to get the LWTR..(correct me if i'm wrong)..

To da rest out there, don give up so easily...no doubt money(LAE dont reli earn tat much) is one of the FACTOR, but dont make it the no 1 factor/motivation of u choosing this career...
u've got to love ur job, then every drop of sweat and effort u put in is worthwhile n u'll not regret the path taken, coz tats wat u wana do for da rest of ur life...

cheers..

by right guy E should be the fastest way



this is not very true, it may seems like it, but trust me, it isnt anything near that
well, actually it depends on the airline training school

JohnMax , i think Nilai College aircraft maintenance program should suit you

This post has been edited by azameel: Feb 4 2009, 10:56 PM

Ya I agree with santana because if EASA they need work experiences, that will lead them behind by times.

So I will choose Guy E.

Ya loving this job is no1. Working as a part if life time to get a LAE is not what I wanted. As how smart you are is depend on the company. Since there is so many LWTR. I also not sure why there is Demand on malaysia?

Hai~ tired with this, working as a contract staff, no one want it accually for jr.tech.

ur advice do enlighten me alot...i thk i made money as a factor for interested in dis career....
im a spm leaver....still quite confuse on my choice....

so i wanna seek for sum opinions frm u guys :
-wat do u guys normally do when working?? is the jobs being fun or stressful?
-wat was the average working working hours per day? frm wat time to wat time?? hw many working days per week?
-do u satisfied wif the job n the pay?
-hws the working environment??
-wat kind of ppl do u guys meet? wat kind of race n gender? cn we meet those beautiful stewardress??

btw, u guys doin great job in providin info! keep it up!

This post has been edited by XxAC3xX: Feb 4 2009, 11:24 PM

off topic :
lowyat info is better than the forum.flydamnit lol.. sum1 shld open a same thread at enginneering there

It's the contribution of the senior/otai in LAME here.

i think flydamnit more towards pilot.

1)LAE's job is to certify the airworthiness of the AC, not to mention the maintenance task carried out..It comes wif a great resposibility..

2)Working hours-8 hours for base, 12 hours for ASU( 4 days work, 4 days off but depends on airlines)

3)The pay is ok i guess(havent much INFO, it wud be helpful if anyone can give an aproximate figure or preferably ur own first pay check), bout satisfaction, again u muz love wat u're doing...when u love wat u're doing, then comes satisfaction... =)

4)it depends how u take it...

5)some pakcik pakcik n young LAE...haha...but most of them are frenly people as long as u respect them...mostly guys, a multiculture society..
bout stewardess, the pilots ll hav d opportunity...d nice onces all kena sapu by pilot..so don expect much...

ASU is Apron Service Unit
Those are the lae who have to inspect the aircraft during transit check (not sure what term is best used)
but you can see ASU lae when u board the aircraft, meaning the lae who checks the a/c before it departs/takeoff

Working Environment, i think its ok, not dirty, no smelly thing etc, unless you work with waste system,or when an old crappy aircaft just came in, but overall is
ok, except the grease part ,
you work in a hangar, so it is not so hot, but there is no aircond except for EIR guy. from my observation lae spend half the time in office an another half on aircraft.

better wait for an lae to answer it

This post has been edited by azameel: Feb 5 2009, 12:33 AM

1.) Not stress cause lae just comment machanic and do.
2) Normal is 7.45am to 4.45pm ~ OT other not sure
3) The pay some are nice firgures but some are .....
4) My experience is omg sweat like hell when hot days and sweet insanely when purge into a tank or climb up and down.
5) From the whole world. When you here u know who is beautiful stewardress.

wat do u mean by tat? y thrs difference in pay? coz diff company or...??

btw, is it hard for a chinese 2 get employed for dis job? coz i saw/heard from the last thread, the mostly is malay? o im jz mistaken?

n is it easy to get emplyed as a lae?

that is not correct, there is a lot of race/nationality, got chinese from hongkong/china summore, people from sudan,mauritius,france,ireland,india,indonesia,phillipine and a lot more, but most of this are contract lae or expatriate.

for staff there is a mixed up of all races for lae,

ok i jz updated the 1st post, any correction plz notify me!

one correction, which is my mistake,

the type of license,
there is no E and I, it should be X and R
we called it as E and I,
but officially, according too bcar it is X

plz someone correct me tho if im wonrg,
coz a bit confused on the cat X

and for



just add in with minimum 2400 hours of instruction/course

This post has been edited by azameel: Feb 5 2009, 01:39 AM

There is a dedicated Engineering Forum with specific threads for trainees from MIAT, Nilai College, APR, AirAsia, MAS and many more... More than here, obviously.

This post has been edited by jazzy939: Feb 5 2009, 06:14 AM

You're welcome lestat, I did that for the intentions of clearing some of the things up.. ANd thanks for mentioning the AN no. 85, I wanted to, but I had no time and need to attend my duties... good work for this 'game'.. I like it!

Yes, I would like to add:

Guy F joined a TAME program with an airline with an 'ab-initio' status recognized by DCA.

This post has been edited by jazzy939: Feb 5 2009, 06:28 AM

i am student miat......

i dont understand about this education........

can u explain me in more detail....

pm me please......

Why don't you talk to your Dekan(He was an LAME), or any of the handful of licensed engineers in MIAT that are lecturers there? En. Hyder Shahrom is easy to approach...

After reading the thread and you still don't understand, I'd say 'ada susah lah sikit'…

Ya different company is one of the reason and is up to your type rating. More type rating more $$$. If I not wrong 1 type rating is RM500. And up to your experiences.

People from the whole world. I get to meet some. This OJT I have to many work schedule, so must get close to them all.

---

Added on February 5, 2009, 6:55 pmAny One have a copy of Department Of Civil Aviation Malaysia Schedule Of Inspection Work. JPA-5 AER?

I need it.

This post has been edited by JohnMax: Feb 5 2009, 06:55 PM

Its JPA-5AER(A)! Schedule of Inspection Work

JPA-5AER is the Application for Grant/Extension/Renewal of AMEL

You can download it from HERE!!!

Thank you jazzy939.

But there is abit different with what I have. ( I want the new form because my already copy thousand time and run out of sharp and order)

Mine have the L-J.P.N, K something like that. Whos one is the valid 1??

This post has been edited by JohnMax: Feb 5 2009, 07:29 PM


Attached thumbnail(s)

i hav rectified them bt nt sure wat u mean by tat E n I part...

from my post

from jazzy939 extracted from bcar section L

try to compare it, there is no E and I in the bcar section L,
there is only A, C, X, and R

jazzy939, can you enlighten me on the Cat X license,
for electrical trade, which is the correct category?
i always listen people say E and I only or EIR,
never heard of CAT X other than the one in the bcar section L

This post has been edited by azameel: Feb 5 2009, 07:47 PM

You're welcome!

Tell me something, is that critical/mandatory to have?

Im not sure about that cause every words in a paper counted. As like quality?
I try to find out.

John,
Don't worry about it. I got the form from DCA's website!

good job to TS and others who contributed to this thread. i have few question :-

What kind/type of work/job/position that can be qualified as "working experiences in aviation" (the experiences needed to get license/ take exam)? tukang cuci can be qualified also aa? jk

Who and how many people involved in each aircraft maintenance eg. maintenance of a boeing 747-400 etc?

thanks

KK. But I will check with thoes LAME at MAS also. Hehe

hi,
I have some question:
1) After we graduate, the college or institute will sent us for OJT or we
need apply and perform the OJT ourself?
2) Will we get pay on OJT duty? If yes, how was the salary
3) OJT can count as working experience? - fill in the log book

hi guys, i also have one question...if someone just finish 147 approval training school, and she/he still need a 2 years experience to get the license, what position that she/he should apply? is it any airlines in Malaysia that can provide a training (a good 2 years experience) towards the license? maybe a proper training like TAME but it cut to 2 years only with practical training only because she/he already got all the module..

You need 2 years experience on live aircraft. Tell what engineering position is available to allow you to do that?
Where can you do this? Isn't it obvious?

1. Chances are you're on your own. Although I know MIAT is making some arrangements for their students.
2. You have to pay. MAS is charging RM20 per day for MIAT trainees, whilst Transmile is charging RM10 but they provide free lunch.
Pay? Why are you being paid?
3. The reason for the OJT is to gain exposure and experience which is a mandatory requirements. You don't learn to maintain aircrafts just by reading the books! The skills of the trade need to be physically acquired. All experiences gathered are to be recorded in your work schedules book/log/sheets and duly signed for by the designated persons in charge. It is up to the regulatory body to accept it then if it meets their minimum requirements.

Lol.. we pay them and we do the job

i rectified them alrdy...check whether if its like tat...

UPDATE 06JUNE2011
The details below had obsolete no longer can be current references. Please be advice that the information below had become a read-only for the past first batch to batch 8. Current batch have all new courses. We hope someone can provide the new information about this course at PSA. This course had change to a new course which named Diploma in Aircraft Maintenance Engineering. All the course details had changed and OJT also. The information below had become a historical references only not for current usage.

REQUIREMENTS APPLICATION FOR ADMISSION INTO POLITEKNIK KPT FOR HOLDER OF SPM CERTIFICATE
Course: DIPLOMA IN AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE



Money need to use for study this course:
RM500 (FIRST ENTRY) + RM 200 (FEES) + RM120 (POLY) = RM320 Per Semester (Optional RM60 for hostel at Poly) (Bus Provided to and back from Poly to MAS)
Total for 5 Semester (5th Semester no need to pay)= RM 1780.

Scholarship Available - PTPTN, JPA, Kuok Foundation, Yayasan and more.


Complete Guide : How to enter Polytechnic Diploma Aircraft Maintenance (DAM) Course and PROS AND CONS.


EASA Part 66 - CAT A
Course details.
Semester 1
PSA -------- MORAL STUDY 1
PSA -------- ENGLISH FOR TECHNICAL PURPOSES 1
MODULE 1 - MATHEMATICS
MODULE 2 - PHYSICS
MODULE 6 - MATERIAL AND HARDWARE(MCQ)
MODULE 6 - MATERIAL DAN HARDWARE(ASP)
PSA --------- TECHNICAL COMMUNICATION
PSA --------- INDUSTRIAL SAFETY
MODULE 7 - MAINTENANCE PRACTICES(MCQ)
MODULE 7 - MAINTENANCE PRACTICES(ESSAY)
PSA --------- COMPUTER APPLICATION
PSA --------- KO KUIKULUM 1(Kawat)

Semester 2
PSA ---------- MORAL STUDY 2
PSA ---------- ENLISH FOR TECHNICAL PURPOSE 2
PSA ---------- KO KURIKULUM 2 (Kelab Kauseling)
MODULE 11 - AEROPLANE AERODYNAMICS, STRUCTURES AND SYSTEMS - METC Books, MAS Instuctors. + ASP
MODULE 8 - BASIC AERODYNAMIC
AIRCRAFT SUPPORT WORKSHOP 1 at MAS - WORKSHOP 40 days
AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE WORKSHOP 1 at MAS - HANGAR 24 days + AIM (Aircraft Interior Maintenance)
MAS Company Procedures at MAS
Industrial Safety Briefing at MAS

Semester 3
On Job Training - AIRCRAFT SUPPORT WORKSHOP 2 at MAS - Hangar 100 days = AIM+EIR+A&C
B747-400 Systems Gen.Fam. at MAS (each candidate can only have 2 from either gen fam)
B777-200 Systems Gen.Fam. at MAS
B737-300 Systems Gen.Fam. at MAS
ETOPS Briefing at MAS

Semester 4
MODULE 15 - GAS TURBINE ENGINE +ASP
MODULE 17 - PROPELLER + ASP
MODULE 10 - AVIATION LEGISLATION + ASP
MODULE 9 - HUMAN FACTOR
MODULE 3 - FUNDAMENTAL ELECTRIC + ASP
MODULE 5 - DIGITAL TECHNIQUES + ASP
MODULE 4 - FUNDAMENTAL ELECTRONIC +ASP
AIRCRAFT SUPPORT WORKSHOP 2 at MAS - Workshop 40 days

Semester 5
On Job Training - AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE WORKSHOP 2 at MAS - Hangar 100 DAYS = AIM+EIR+A&C

Hope all this information will help you all.

Next intake if I not mistaken, Batch 9 JULY 2010 will be 6 semester and OJT one semester only add up with mechanical subjects to widen the output scope. (will update with you all)

P/S: OJT will cover most of the hangar production lines except propeller from line 5 to line 11. Workshop will cover mostly all a total of 16 workshop include mechanical and avionics, eg: Landing Gear, Airframe, Sanitary, Hydraulic, Safety, Seat Bay, Sheet Metal, Galley, Radio, Instrument, IFE, Electrical, Standard Room, NDT, Composite, and Paint.

Updated 13 June 2011

Links:
Politeknik Sultan Salahuddin Abdul Aziz Shah (PSA)

UPDATE


This post has been edited by JohnMax: Jun 9 2011, 01:15 PM

yup tats wat i wan!! great job john max!!
bt it would b helpful if u could mention the duration for each process/sem. until u graduated

could sum1 provide a guide like wat john max did for MIAT, Nilai n more?
the effort would b much appreciated!!

btw gt sum question 2 ask:
1. dca,easa n bcar r diff systems which provide diff license? i heard tat we nid 2 convert the easa license to DCA/LWTR???
2. so after i graduated frm those institutions like MIAT,Nilai,polytech...
-ill b provided a diploma cert. n LWTR ??
-ill b able 2 work as a LAE in MAS,AA,Transmile? o i nid 2 undergo more training 2 b LAE?
3. plz tell me the available path n duration for each path to b able to work in MAS/AA/Transmile etc
4. since LWTR requires 2yrs workin exp, so after gettin LWTR, we cn work as a LAE in MAS/AA etc alrdy???
5. wat it means by type rating?? izzit diff aircraft nids diff license? o izzit means diff parts o the aircraft like radio, engine, airframe, electrical??

uhh..sumtimes i dun really noe wanna ask wat...so confusing...
btw, time, cost n chances on gettin employed of dis career matters alot to me...plz provide me sum info bout it...

This post has been edited by XxAC3xX: Feb 6 2009, 11:37 PM

OMG. The selection is a lot harder than Tame Mas

LWTR is License Without Type Rating you cannot work on aircraft yet, you need to have the type rating.
Let say if you got a A licence from DCA, you cant work on any aircraft yet, then you take the 737-400 type rating,
now u can work on the aircraft already, but only on the task you can approved (Airframe), you cant work on the engine.If you take the C license, now u can work on both of A and C, if you want to work on other aircraft
eg 777-200, you need to take the 777 type rating, which means u will get more coverage, and more allowances.

Both Easa and Bcar license is called LWTR,
but the type rating is issued by the company eg Mas, Air Asia etc.

So after you grads, you still need to undergo training, it is the type rating, and company courses

If im not mistaken, converting from Easa to Bcar license is just the matter of sitting for a Air Legislation paper.
For Bcar license, we need to change to Easa later on, cause DCA are in the way of converting to Easa

For Mas they only take LAE with type rating only.

If you got an Easa license, you can easily look for jobs overseas

which company is this? i thought the basic is 2k+, +Rm1000 technical allowance +Rm1xx Shift Allowance +RM50 Laundry Allowance + Dunno what else, first type rating wont get allowance

If u got a wide body license for (second type rating n above), i heard the allowance is RM1000
and for narrow body is Rm500



This is a big no-no in aviation, if you dont know, ask someone who knows (not in exam), never hesitate, you'll be playing with hundreds of life, you must get it 100% right, you shouldnt be playing with chances

a quote i heard from someone


This post has been edited by azameel: Feb 7 2009, 12:47 AM

oic...so it means tat i hav 2 choose Cat B1 (EASA) to study 1st then take LWTR exam 2 get tat license which is only eligible 4 me 2 repair A,C,E parts on every aircraft oni rite?
-roughly hw long 4 a person 2 obtain LWTR? the fastest to get is hw long? hw much does it cost in the whole process?
-so hw do i obtain the type rating? the lae in tat company will teach us until we qualify 2 repair them? o we nid 2 study n sit for exam? require $$? time consuming??
-LAE is all bout studying while working to obtain more type rating izzit?

Oh really? Says who?

yup,(for EASA) you study B1, once you finished it you have to take the conversion exam (air leg) than you will get the LWTR im not sure which one is the fastest, maybe we have to wait for lestat race to finish
but basically it should be around 5 years in average.

to obtain the type rating, we need the recommendation from the foreman, than we will have the type courses, than we should then take the exam by the company, there is written and oral exam.but if we work at ASU, getting new type is easy, since time is limited in ASU so they prefer lae to have multi coverage

the more type rating you got the more allowance you got,


i have no solid reference, but thats what i heard from training school and from a lot of people in MAS
thats why i started of with Easa license, but then revert to Bcar since mas training school couldnt get part 147.
they even changed the maximum working hours daily, maximum of 6 continous working days etc,
and they said it is easa regulation
plz correct me if im wrong
btw, may i know where u work jazzy
btw, im still a trainee not yet an lae

This post has been edited by azameel: Feb 7 2009, 01:17 AM

My last conversation with the technical training manager of MAS, he said MAS will be reverting back to BCAR Section L when they're going to re-start apprenticeship training.

I used to work in MAS I am an LAME.

My sources in DCA said that as far as EASA is concerned, there are no requirements as such for us to change/convert. Our BCAR Section L still works and applicable(which I fully agree). TheBCAR Section L is part of MCAR. We need to change/revised the MCAR first, which will take 'some time'...
Even IF DCA were to adopt EASA-66, it is obviously with changes/modifications to suit our requirements and situations, and it is STILL will be DCA's AMEL.
We're NOT part of the EU. There are issues with the EU and there reasons why the need for them to use a common standard, hence the EASA-66.

This post has been edited by jazzy939: Feb 7 2009, 06:50 AM

Hard is not if your english is good, cause people who knew this course is less and people think polytechnic is low education so the pros will not concern. Like us, your english is far beyond, 100% you welcome in cause other is not so good. My group 10 only 2 can speak english, me and an indian now also my batch. the rest gone...

I mean is in examination, not in real aircraft. Don't tell me that you do not know and you want to leave it blank? As Mr.Satish told us to do.

owh, thanks jazzy, that mean our bcar license will still work,
there is no need to convert to easa license is it?
but having easa license means you are easier to get jobs oversea right?

i mean comparing with tame mas which is only
1.To be selected
2.aptitude test (math,english,IQ)
3.Interview
4.Medical Checkup

and i think few of my friends did the interview in malay

owh, for the exam, of course i know, luckily for us now there is no more negative marking,
last time, there is, meaning if you didnt answer you'll loose 1 mark
if u answer wrongly, you.ll loose 1.5 mark
so that time you just cant shoot if u dont know the answer

This post has been edited by azameel: Feb 7 2009, 01:30 PM

-erm, for a spm leaver, the best is to do tame in mas/aa/etc ? cheapest n fastest rite?
-AA n MAS recognize Bcar? so im recomended 2 do bcar betta 2 b able 2 work thr?
-wonder when is the intake for tame of mas n aa dis year...(eligible for spm leaver..)
-will i get employed n recognition after graduate frm MIAT/Nilai by MAS/AA?

ahh...dunno which path 2 choose...do it in MIAT/Nilai or tame prog by MAS/AA...
any recommendation pros here?

btw, thx for answering my questions....mayb my questions is too much....><

IMHO tame in any airlines is the best(even if the training school is a bit messed up), everything is there for u,
all u have to do is complete the course and u confrim work with them, in fact im considered mas staff already with benefits, epf etc. its not the cheapest, basically its free, in fact im getting monthly allowance, but very little only, might need support from parents, an the payback is 10 years of bond, meaning i have to work 10 years in mas as an lame, if i breach the contract i have to pay the bond which cost RM167k for the 10 yrs

for mas tame there is no more intake, even after my intake they already took diploma leaver
lucky for me coz my batch is the last spm intake.

for aa im not sure on their program, i just heard they got their trainee of their own but dunno the details about it.

second would be the nilai, coz you'll be getting lwtr,
this is just my own opinion

yes AA and mas recognize bcar. coz they are following dca, in fact any company in malaysia recognize bcar

if u got an lwtr license, it recognize almost everywhere in the world, especially if u got the easa lwtr

some info for Nilai University College (NUC) aircraft maintenance course
Diploma in Aircraft Maintenance (NUC)
NIUC Aircraft Maintenance FAQ
EASA part66 Exam in NUC

This post has been edited by azameel: Feb 7 2009, 03:40 PM

Guys, Im planning to go sit for B2 courses in Switzeland. Its more reliable and shortcorse and only took 2 month to finish for module 5-14.Other than that module(B2 only) you have to sit for others month. Well, I just got the info yesterday from my friend and told my parent bout it and they said OK. Well, the ebst thing bout this course is, i can take whatever module that i wish to. I already completed module 1,2,3,4,7,6,8,9 and still got more halfway to go. Eventhough they conduct an exam here in Britsih Council, im still have a doubt about module 13. Yes, that's the toughest module in B2 and since the course offer for module 13 at outside is freaking expensive( can up 20 15k) I then decide to just jump into this course.

I want to know if there any of you guys or maybe some of your friends attended this course that been conducted in Switzeland before? And how is it? Easy to pass? And can DCA/QA simply rejected my certificate that i get after I've completed this course?

The ICAO Type II license which our DCA's AMEL is, is still readily accepted especially in the middle east.

IF you wanna work with 9M registered aircrafts, it is suffice to hold the DCA's AMEL.
And you you want to venture out.. go with EASA.

Yes, they can. Especially places where they do it in a 'short' time. Quality vs quantity issues.

But if DCA reject my cert, I still can work with any other European airlines? Well, that's the main point now.

Of course! I won't lose any sleep over it!

excuse me MR JOHN, tat mean i also don't know how to speak English la...WTH is tat...i same group with u what...hahaha

---

Added on February 7, 2009, 9:30 pm

erm..tat mean if tat time i just work as a contract staff(mechanic) in MAS,and i get my EASA license and still waiting for type rating,i still a mechanic?


This post has been edited by khye89: Feb 7 2009, 09:30 PM