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Engineering Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (LAME), Guide & everything about this career!

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Lestat
post Feb 3 2009, 10:11 PM

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AC3 or Azameel,
u should include in top post the link to DCA publication, AN no. 5 and AN no. 85.

QUOTE(JohnMax @ Feb 3 2009, 07:03 PM)
Sa, I have a question. After I finish my diploma aircraft maintenance. Should I continue my degree in MIAT/oversea first or become Jr.Tech?
*
QUOTE(azameel @ Feb 3 2009, 07:18 PM)
I have no right to answer you question, cause im still under training as well,same like you.
But IMHO, just continue the degree first, but LAME wont be suitable for u anymore. Since got degree maybe you prefer to become Tech Service Engineer. And getting a license from a junior tech is not easy as it looks,
you will get tempted to do overtime(no time to study or take license), or maybe get settled down with the current condition etc, you need a big motivation to upgrade to lae.But nothing is impossible  biggrin.gif
*
LAME doesn't require degree. u can pursue LAME while doing the diploma (a handful of MIAT dip holder already got it) but it's a separate process. Diploma is given by the school, license is given by DCA. whether u can become jr tech or not, really depends on employer requirement. generally they require diploma.

don't get intimidated by those who said LAME is HUGE, HARD n LONG struggle.
personally, it's easy whistling.gif
just get the requirements checked.

QUOTE
Big question.
Can some one explain for me Different between TAME, LAME, METC and what they study for?
How to get into these LAME? TAME? METC?

p/s: cause want to leave the white mouse world and enter a new experience world. Why I am doing DCA work schedule but till today I only knew taht need to register with DCA so that the work papers will valid..... Is this true?


TAME is generally a program created by aviation companies to train in-house their own LAME.
METC is a school, some sort of division under MAS to carry TAME n other training program probably exclusively for MAS

work schedule papers is certified by the engineer u are working with (Malaysia LAME). mistaken with something else may be?
Lestat
post Feb 4 2009, 09:42 PM

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if everybody knows that to be LAME u need no academic qualification, traing school such as MIAT, Nilai, etc should already flush their aviation courses down the toilet. Here comes AN no 85. Skip all the rubbish, go straight to paragraph 6. im not going to quote, READ. i've even pointed where to read. u guys should've read AN no 5 too, thanks to mr. jazzy. he got his hand dirty to quote for u guys.


Let's play a game,

Guy A start working in aviation and gather experience to go for LWTR (As per AN no 5). don't ask how he suddenly start working in aviation tongue.gif
Guy B go to DCA-approved training school (As per AN no 85).
Guy C go to a university in UK and pursue EASA license.
Guy D pursue EASA license locally in Malaysia.
Guy E join TAME program with an airliner.

Which guy can sign off an aircraft and get big bucks first?
Jazzy, any other option i missed?

the winner get prosperity burger biggrin.gif .. DOUBLE!
while stock last tongue.gif
Lestat
post Feb 8 2009, 02:05 AM

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QUOTE(jazzy939 @ Feb 7 2009, 11:14 PM)
I think you heard wrong, obviousy NOT from DCA. They want to change NOTHING!. It is the industry that is pushing them to change!
IF I am DCA, I would say the same thing too, 'Why should I'? Whats wrong with BCAR Section L?

I think the majority of the trainees still haven't the faintest idea about air legislation, let alone the existence of EASA-66 in the first place doh.gif
*
laugh.gif i feel u, jazzy.

to all LAME-to-bes, LAME is about carrying out ur job as ruled out by the law. those already in training program SHOULD already learn in air legislation subject. no one interested about this though, and just interested how to be there the fast way. my little advice, if u don't know exactly what u're doing, u'll get lost. i've seen people, my own friends, jumping ships here n there and end up with none of what they're pursuing. get ur grip right on air legislation. now it's time to introduce remind u guys about ICAO. read about it!

to SPM leavers, to be aircraft maintenance engineer, u need aircraft maintenance engineer license produced by the COUNTRY which the aircraft u're working with. 9M-xxx means it's malaysian registered aircraft n u need malaysian license produced only by DCA of malaysia. EASA-based license are produced by the country that conduct the exam, and it don't give u approval to release malaysian aircraft, hence why should your company pay u as engineer if u can't sign off an aircraft? here comes the 'conversion' step, to get malaysian license u need to adopt malaysian law.

forget my little game a few pages before (u guys not getting my prosperity burger anyway rolleyes.gif ) and think over these options:
- fast n no brainer way, join any TAME program (yeah, now it require diploma to join, not so fast anymore for spm leavers)
- need a diploma to frame on the wall? join Nilai, MIAT, etc which offer diploma program with LWTR added value. careful with your choice here. MIAT is the only DCA approved school n enjoy AN no 85 priviliges. u're not tied down to anyone n the diploma can provide a little safety net.
- want to work in other country? get THAT country license. wana come back to malaysia? convert the license to malaysian license. (alegedly, some believe this way is easier than sit for DCA exam for malaysian license). conversion step vary depending on license's country of origin.
- lastly, think about your dream employer/company. what are they looking for. check the company rivals. also the rest of the industry.

those already in a program/training, just stick with whatever u stuck with.
and read ur air legislation book.
and polish ur english.

and there're piston-engined aircraft and helicopters too. not just 737 n 747.


hkcasper, syllabus covered in those licenses differ from each other. different work schedule area too. the best person to ask is ur lecturer/instructor. they know what u covered in ur study n where u sit/fit in the industry. share with us here too, ok?
Lestat
post Feb 9 2009, 10:48 PM

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azameel, john, ezi, AC3, and lurkers..

I used simple words to explain/answer questions so that those who have no idea what is air legislation all about (or who don't read it!) can understand what to do/how to be a LAME. I can also get very technical with u guys about the requirements, qualifications, laws, DCA, BCAR, EASA, 66, 145,147 and all sort of things that u guys probably have never heard before. but me n jazzy here just can't stress enough how important for u to know what u read in your program/training now. think twice what u are about to say about factual stuff to avoid misunderstanding, confusion n/or make yourself look stupid. beware when your sentence start with "i think..", "i guess..". "correct me if im worng" is also widely abused term. LAME jokes don't really work here too laugh.gif

to spm leavers, this forum is the next best advisor for u if u ask the right question. the best way is do your own research and ask what u don't understand. this thread start off with DCA, EASA, BCAR, blabla... no one really bother to ask about what these stuff mean. my 'smart' guess is, u guys know what u talking about. even spm leavers are using these acronyms when they ask questions. so, u'll get 'smart' answer for appearing asking 'smart' questions.

ezi, really, there're not many ways to get license, but there are many places to go to get them. those interested just need to answer this question, WHICH COUNTRY'S LICENSE THAT U WANT? Malaysia? or some other country? only then, someone can really tell u how to get it.

QUOTE(JohnMax @ Feb 9 2009, 10:41 AM)
If I go to take EASA exam now at British Council, so my valid is only 5 years for my exam papers.

I also need 5 years of experiences? Or 3 years? OJT counted?

That mean If I take now is useless unless I attach to MAS to collect work schedule?

*
john, u understand what is EASA, right? OJT? no one says anything about OJT. which category of license u plan to apply? A, B, C or D? whistling.gif


wusuhong, going to Nilai, right? so this list is for u. now READ! whistling.gif
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


beware of mild dose of technical materials in this post.
Lestat
post Feb 11 2009, 12:11 AM

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QUOTE(ezi23 @ Feb 6 2009, 04:26 AM)
hi guys, i also have one question...if someone just finish 147 approval training school, and she/he still need a 2 years experience to get the license, what position that she/he should apply? is it any airlines in Malaysia that can provide a training (a good 2 years experience) towards the license? maybe a proper training like TAME but it cut to 2 years only with practical training only because she/he already got all the module..
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ezi, i have to dig deep to read ur question.
it really depends on a company interest. MAS can't really use u straight away, so less interest there.
i only have one friend that i know well and he came from a 147 school in UK. wasted a good 2 years before got hired by transmile n start collecting experience.

wusuhong,
these books are very hard to get. i never bought one off the shelf. i got some from my previous school, some xerox, some digital copy. some can be downloaded from FAA website. and lots of self-brain-cracked notes. u can look here too, BOOKS


hakunamatata,
LAME got his license from the aviation authority body of a country to do his duty only on the aircraft registered in that country. that is DCA for Malaysia, CAA for UK, blablablablabah. to keep story short, EASA is a body that responsible for many things in civil aviation in europe countries. it's an agency of the EU and non-EU countries adopt its rules and procedures on a voluntary basis.
EASA part 66 - certifying staff
EASA part 145 - maintenance organization approval
EASA part 147 - training organization approval
these are regulations u see flaunted most here.

EASA approved training school enjoy privileges given by EASA. license give out by the country that conduct the exam that u sit.
DCA approved training school enjoy privileges given by DCA.... which conduct exam in malaysia n of course malaysia license lah.

don't be mistaken between EASA aprroved training school(ie. AST UK) and EASA exam center(ie. british council,KL).

Lestat
post Feb 11 2009, 10:59 PM

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QUOTE(JohnMax @ Feb 11 2009, 07:49 PM)
Although I showed you all the complete guide to enter Poly, but that is bullshit.

Cause now basic also got problems. I have talked with some LAEs, and they also say the same as previous LAEs, Poly student are always lost...

Some LAEs are helping us, some training school instuctors also, and some of us is trying the best, but 95% are still lost. Only those who really find out the problems is trying to solve the problems. We know inside the aircraft but not out side?

No Guidance, no people lead us to teach us. Direct to the hangar floor and learn from the technician and Engineer. No mission and vision. Poly also made my batch as beta test for work schedule. How about senior??

I must complate at least 60 task in 100 days OJT in MAS. If failed to do so, sorry you can leave now. And at the end will be oral... asking all what you did and modules.....

LAEs asked.
They ask us some basic questions, Physically.
e.g. How is the Main Landing Gear are called? Ans: Numbers
e.g. B747-400 Have winglets, what B737-300 have at the same placE?? A long rod. Ans: That is HF Antenna.
e.g. What is the Different between B747-200 and B747-300? Ans: Find yourself

Everyone have different answers...

If the programs is to make to be like this, students that Poly produce will be technician only not LAE. As LEO at HPL 06 told us that only 4 people graduate from MIAT be LAE in MAS currently, but i do not know really or not.

So for us who study in Poly is ???? to go to LAE, is a huge far extreme way to go...
*
john, remove urself from 'the victim' perspective. view everything from different view.
to make u feel better, those questions that u got can only be answered if u already been working with the aircraft for sometime. i would expect u to be able to answer questions regarding acceptable standard practices, air legislation, general aircraft systems (electrical, hydraulics, flight controls, etc.). if u can't answer these kind of question, u can go kick yourself n wake up. even a long time serving fixed wing LAME would look stupid if u ask him "what is the difference between Sikorsky S61 and S76". the very reason u go for OJT/practical is to expose urself with the aircraft n for u to see how all those systems that u learned work in the real aircraft. of course, over time u are expected to be able to answer those LAE's questions. if u can't, go kick urself again. this time harder.

even other jobs are like that. u never really practice what u learn in dip/degree to do the job. it's more like giving u the base where u work urself upwards. how many people taking up management course? does everyone become a manager?
Lestat
post Feb 14 2009, 07:55 PM

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QUOTE(rasmuswil @ Feb 13 2009, 02:48 AM)
smile.gif
well,thats not true
neither part 66 o 147

sad.gif
no matter which field/company/institute u r in
thats mayb som problem hidden bhind
its no reveal to all, coz ppl tends to look positive way
(yea,its gud to think positive,but not 2 get fool)
smile.gif
MIAT is 1st MTO in Malaysia
d condition to get approved is by follow AN85 guideline
for those senior tat graduated n not knowing much about MIAT recently
shouldn't b put through opinion tats set d date back 2 time

by following d AN85,its 3 old diploma course tats get approved
its not "MIAT" get certification to train all kind of courses
since year 2007,they hv intro a whole new diploma n degree tat they call "EASA" program
while on year 2008,DCA approved 3 old diploma program which compliance to AN85

tats d point make ppl confuse,those new program doesnt get approved by DCA
n its follow EASA module,not BCAR
so  doh.gif  bfr recommend MIAT to newbie,i should clarify wat was going on
*
rasmuswil,
they're no school with part 66 approval coz there're no such thing. rolleyes.gif
do u know the reasons behind partnership between NIC and AST? or between MIAT and Aero Buildung?

i have yet to see anyone here promoting the course they're attending. a few complaints tho laugh.gif
PLEASE.. let us know more!
Lestat
post Feb 20 2009, 03:58 AM

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QUOTE(XxAC3xX @ Feb 20 2009, 02:24 AM)
sum1 plz provide me the infos bout tat bolded part?
alrite quite sum din update the guide already...anything more to add??

-do a lae hav their life? i mean would they hav time to relax n socialize?
*
B1.1 Aeroplanes Turbine-Engines
B1.2 Aeroplanes Piston-Engines
B1.3 Helicopters Turbine-Engines
B1.4 Helicopters Piston-Engines

i actually expect questions about where to go, what to do, dca, easa, blablablab, only last no more than 3 pages. guides should be in the 1st page and updated as necessary. and taking the first step doesn't mean u are half way there. still hoping someone would ask something like what is CoFF, FCU or what is an airplane or whatever.

oh, LAME are human too. they work, eat and poop.. and socialize. what makes u think these people are different from others?
Lestat
post Feb 27 2009, 01:51 AM

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a few days ago i almost believe there are some improvement of understanding about this licensing matter. now we almost back at the start again. i sense that this thread has become a place to pour out frustration of those who already working but not yet 'there'. this outpour of feelings can cause confusion if u don't really know how the whole industry works.

i agree with jazzy, BCAR is simple to understand. and there is a difference of being lazy or hardworking. even EASA would look tough if u are not hardworking enough. lazy n undecided are two major things that delayed people from getting what they want.

Better regret doing than regret NOT doing it - quoted from rolleyes.gif
Lestat
post Feb 28 2009, 02:54 AM

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QUOTE(Johny123 @ Feb 27 2009, 12:32 PM)
an excerpt from my blog, bare in mind that I wrote this 2 months ago, so some info might be outdated, it's just a basic outline.
1) Reminder: I’m not writing about UK license, or Europe License (EASA/JAR). This is under BCAR section L which is obsolete in the mentioned areas but there are means to convert the license that you’ve obtained under the BCAR. Ok remember just the basics, if you wanna know more about BCAR, gotta go to DCA itself. In Malaysia, we adopt whatever that was written in the CAA/BCAR and call it MCAR (Malaysian Civil Aviation Regulation)1996.
I believe u mean we adopted UK ANO, tweak it n became MCAR.
QUOTE
a.3: MIAT-to be honest, I’m not sure of their status since they are under UniKL, I heard from some of the MIAT trainees that I’ve met, they have been approved by the DCA, your best bet is to go and ask MIAT yourself.
A handful of miat diploma students has has gone thru the exams (it's not compulsory to go for license) and some got their red book already. there are also new programs going on but hasn't put out result yet.
QUOTE
5) I’m afraid if you only got a diploma/degree, you cant work on the aircraft yet. You can work in other departments for example: Technical Services. You gotta have some basic technical training from approved programs/schools before you are allowed to carry out any tasks related to aircraft maintenance.
i can see the advantages of training school that offer diploma. i can apply for job and work with airplanes n i got a diploma on my wall. to be able to sit for license exam is a big bonus. (Kevin, which of these things, AATC of ipoh can offer?) other kind of diploma are almost useless but can be used to qualify for other training program such as in MAS, AA or APR, which eventually put u on the road towards beautiful sunset...with a red book in your pocket

Johny, how's your training with APR going on? On the road towards beautiful sunset...with a red book already in your pocket?
Lestat
post Feb 28 2009, 05:28 PM

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QUOTE(Johny123 @ Feb 28 2009, 06:43 AM)
Ahh thanks Lestat, knew I had something not quite right regarding the legislation. Oh ya good to know that MIAT has been producing a steady stream of LAEs too.

I'm waiting for the exam result atm, quite anxious. I was told by alot of people, always expect the worst haha.

The training was ok, we were sent to almost everywhere, I mean I was even attached to the QA/Tech Serv/Tech Pub not just hangar/line operations tongue.gif . All in all really depends on individual effort still.
*
after been everywhere, u should know how actually your company works, it's good thing actually.
come on, u can already expect the result when u opened the exam papers. unless u are at 50-50 chances. ONLY THEN, luck will help.


QUOTE(hakunamatata @ Feb 28 2009, 12:52 PM)
u mean those diploma ee, chemical, mechatronic?
*
Yep. But, there are small maintenance company that do recruit regardless of the academic paper. but they insist u to go for short basic maintenance course. other than that, it's just a qualifying academic level (though what u already learned sometimes help in the program).
Lestat
post Mar 5 2009, 01:55 AM

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Kevin,

Does AATC partnering with any Part 147 school for the training?
Where will u sit for your EASA exam? On-site? Somewhere else?
Any previous batches of students/trainees?
Lestat
post Mar 5 2009, 08:11 PM

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QUOTE(kevin77 @ Mar 5 2009, 10:27 AM)
answer:

1) i dnt myself if hv if partnering with any Part 147 school for the training bt think they do their own traning
2)u sit for yr easa exam in the british council in KL i think
3)they hv abt 100 ppl u are students of ths school... and some who are LWTR are working alredy...some even in aa

anywayz u guyz should give me the answers abt ths skol bt looks like every1 is bur like me in ths matter...lol biggrin.gif
doh.gif

Added on March 5, 2009, 10:31 am

u think mas or other "tempatan"  players in the industry will take me... biggrin.gif
i wanna go to Europe...but want some experience before i can go there...
*
I'm just posting questions that u should've asked them.
So why not Nilai, MIAT, or TAFE?

QUOTE(-Teddy- @ Mar 5 2009, 06:51 PM)
Academic wise? Do they hire SPM leavers?
*
Most definitely not in big airlines. Slim chance in small general aviation company, if can consider working from far,far below. One of my colleague start as office boy in similar company, then allowed to wash, help push aircraft out, before allowed to work on it. 3 years down, my guess he earn around rm1800 as technician with just SPM. I consider him as lucky, thanks to his uncle whom own the company where he started off. so this means, it is possible to work with only SPM (better if your uncle own an aviation company). a few more years, he can qualify for exam. Hard work and persistence nod.gif . mind u, this is a general aviation company.
Lestat
post Mar 14 2009, 08:03 PM

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I'd rate stanley, kennedy, ace about the same level of robustness based on previous bent/broken tools. (but then there're kennedy professional, ace professional that *might* be a better quality). not yet successful to break any facom/proto/snap-on.

i'd suggest invest more what u used most. ie. ratchets, combi wrenches, cutter,etc. cheaper if u buy them used especially snap-on/facom. also, ebay is full of snap-ons.

anyone used Mr Mark? biggrin.gif
made in malaysia with limited lifetime warranty, i heard.
Lestat
post Mar 15 2009, 12:11 AM

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i've only used britool socket in large sizes n they're good.

the thing is, the smaller your tools are, the more precise n stronger it should be. ie, 12pt socket is easy to use, but u don't want to round up 6pt nut with your rounded socket (normally happen on small sizes which is why some still prefer 6pt over 12pt). the same goes with spanners. sometime u just have to use big force on a stuck bolt/nut. this is where u rely on quality u paid for.

the other thing is comfort. once u used facom ratchets, u'll never want to use anything else.. brows.gif
Lestat
post Mar 17 2009, 08:52 PM

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aniqshamsul,
u can have your degree AND license, no problem. to get both the easy way, look up for Kingston U or Glamorgan U and read thru their course details. if u interested, go to MABEC and discuss more with them. their service is free and from my own experience, they're good. they'll help u to enroll in UCAS (UK equivalent of malaysian UPU) and only this part u need to pay to UCAS. just make sure u tell them aircraft maintenance degree with part 66 license. if all went smooth, u'll get offer letter from the U itself. u'll take a bit longer time, but u'll get both. ah.. and u need a lot money too.

well, there's also MIAT with their degree but i can't recommend what i don't know. why not ask them? ask for their syllabus, and paste them here biggrin.gif

Lestat
post Mar 17 2009, 09:16 PM

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aniq,
that's just a part 66 training program. the degree from MIAt is another different program. DCA give u nothing but license. treat them like JPJ. u wanna drive a car go to driving school. then exam with JPJ n get your D license. get it? of course, an approved training school with JPJ biggrin.gif
Lestat
post Mar 17 2009, 09:54 PM

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QUOTE(aniqshamsul @ Mar 17 2009, 09:34 PM)
oh right.so if i attend that part 66 program,i should have the license by the time i finish it,isnt it so?that mean i will have a LWTR?or i still will have nothing?because that part of 'certificate of recognition' really makes me doubt about the program.
*
no, you're not reading this thread or u don't understand what have been said before.

no, u don't get your license. yet.

Added on March 17, 2009, 9:57 pm
QUOTE(Lestat @ Mar 17 2009, 09:54 PM)
no, you're not reading this thread or u don't understand what have been said before.

no, u don't get your license. yet.
*
edit: ah.. not LWTR either.

This post has been edited by Lestat: Mar 17 2009, 09:57 PM
Lestat
post Mar 17 2009, 10:20 PM

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QUOTE(aniqshamsul @ Mar 17 2009, 10:09 PM)
you said this earlier on.what did you mean by DIPLOMA PROGRAM WITH LWTR ADDED VALUE?

it stated there EASA PART 66 - Aircraft Maintenance Engineer License (AMEL) training programme.what does this program offer people if it does not give us license?(eventhough it says license training program).sheesh. grumble.gif
*
Firstly, MIAT has many programs/courses running. Some are approved by DCA. these are the diplomas. They also started a new course to cater Part 66 wanabe. did u see the word DIPLOMA or DEGREE written anywhere in that part 66 training description u just pasted? sheesh.
Lestat
post Mar 31 2009, 03:04 PM

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QUOTE(rasmuswil @ Mar 30 2009, 12:43 AM)
=)
i hv try 2 search the warehouse
around the area that u hv mention about
but no luck
possible to give more accurate place?
coz that lotsa factory n shoplot in industry area
*
QUOTE(azameel @ Mar 30 2009, 11:46 PM)
i didnt remember but its kinda huge
got few tools logo like stanley and such
*
the warehouse has big sign "TMP" for Tool & Machinery Parts Supply. not mistaken, also got proto, stanley logo, etc on the wall. u need to give your name at the guard house to enter. i hope u already have some figures in mind how much these tools cost before u go there so u don't get heart attack there.

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