Hai GUys,
Have the Private Retirement Scheme (PRS) started already?
Anybody have any ifo?
Please advice.
Thanks Guys.
Private Retirement Scheme Started?
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 Sep 4 2012, 06:52 AM, updated 14y ago
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227 posts Joined: Jan 2009  
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Sep 4 2012, 12:16 PM
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#2
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4,436 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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Still no action... I, too have asked around and none of the sevice provider can give me simple answers like what is the Sales charge, annual management fee, agent fee etc.
They say wait till Oct to get a clearer picture. Xuzen |
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Sep 4 2012, 03:55 PM
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Senior Member
2,980 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: Mount Chiliad 
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My office here in CWA just finished training and introduction session about PRS.
But i didnt attend  |
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Sep 4 2012, 05:18 PM
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759 posts Joined: Feb 2012
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It started already. ING Fund do provide PRS...
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Sep 4 2012, 06:08 PM
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All Stars
14,990 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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FSM also has a PRS (deducted from salary). Anyway don't need to depend on government, just agree with yourself to put away x% of your income in a unit trust every month, should see the results when you retire
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Sep 4 2012, 07:07 PM
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227 posts Joined: Jan 2009
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QUOTE(wodenus @ Sep 4 2012, 06:08 PM) FSM also has a PRS (deducted from salary). Anyway don't need to depend on government, just agree with yourself to put away x% of your income in a unit trust every month, should see the results when you retire Thanks for the input. What is the minimum commitment for PRS monthly? In this case ING which already started. Thanks |
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Sep 4 2012, 07:28 PM
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#7
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14,990 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(umapathy @ Sep 4 2012, 07:07 PM) Thanks for the input. Check it out at http://www.fundsupermart.com.my under "Regular Savings Plan" What is the minimum commitment for PRS monthly? In this case ING which already started. Thanks |
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Sep 4 2012, 10:46 PM
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#8
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1,639 posts Joined: Nov 2010
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PRS = regular savings plan.
 (closest icon I can find, actually looking for pengsan.) |
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Sep 5 2012, 01:11 PM
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#9
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14,990 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Sep 4 2012, 10:46 PM) PRS = regular savings plan. What's the difference? (closest icon I can find, actually looking for pengsan.) compare PRS and RSP, and someone putting in a fixed amount every month, and tell me what the difference is This post has been edited by wodenus: Sep 5 2012, 01:12 PM |
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Sep 5 2012, 01:43 PM
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Junior Member
291 posts Joined: Dec 2007
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QUOTE(wodenus @ Sep 5 2012, 01:11 PM) What's the difference? Personal income tax payable (i guess compare PRS and RSP, and someone putting in a fixed amount every month, and tell me what the difference is  ) |
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Sep 5 2012, 01:55 PM
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71 posts Joined: Apr 2009
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wanted to type alot, but offend too much if likewise expose all.
it's a very sensitive issue towards malaysia economy n political issue. it relates alot of benefit party, n best part is, the last person to benefit is those who 'purchase' this scheme. n impact is huge within malaysia n malaysian who tend to 'invest' in it. it's an investment scheme in d end. make sure after reducing this money from ur epf or salary. retirement reaches u still have enuf. else might as well just use what u have on hand. very very sensitive.... personally to reply as a friend, dont get into this plan @.@ not positive <--- for me. |
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Sep 5 2012, 01:59 PM
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All Stars
14,990 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(yong417 @ Sep 5 2012, 01:43 PM) Personal income tax payable (i guess Cool.. now figure out if your taxes are going to be less if you have a Rm3000 tax relief. If not then it makes no difference right? )This post has been edited by wodenus: Sep 5 2012, 02:01 PM |
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Sep 5 2012, 03:50 PM
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Senior Member
952 posts Joined: Feb 2011
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QUOTE(umapathy @ Sep 4 2012, 07:07 PM) Thanks for the input. get this month personal money, well explained abt PRS.What is the minimum commitment for PRS monthly? In this case ING which already started. Thanks Added on September 5, 2012, 3:53 pm QUOTE(kparam77 @ Sep 5 2012, 03:50 PM) get this month personal money, well explained abt PRS. SHARING ONLY.Who is PPA? - http://www.ppa.my/index.php/about/background/ FAQs on PRS... http://www.ppa.my/index.php/how-prs-works/faqs-on-prs/ Role of the SC in regulating PPA - http://www.ppa.my/index.php/how-prs-works/...regulating-ppa/ Getting advice - http://www.ppa.my/index.php/how-prs-works/getting-advice/ Who are PRS Providers - http://www.ppa.my/index.php/providers-and-...-prs-providers/ Benefits of PRS - http://www.ppa.my/index.php/how-prs-works/benefits-of-prs/ Tax incentives - http://www.ppa.my/index.php/how-prs-works/tax-incentives/ Joining PRS - http://www.ppa.my/index.php/how-prs-works/joining-prs/ This post has been edited by kparam77: Sep 5 2012, 03:53 PM |
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Sep 5 2012, 04:15 PM
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Junior Member
291 posts Joined: Dec 2007
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QUOTE(wodenus @ Sep 5 2012, 01:59 PM) Cool.. now figure out if your taxes are going to be less if you have a Rm3000 tax relief. If not then it makes no difference right? 3% of RM3k = RM907% of RM3k = RM210 12% of RM3k = RM360 . . . . . might not be significant to u... but it is still $$$ ma~~  well, what regular savings plan offers?? |
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Sep 17 2012, 12:31 PM
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Junior Member
66 posts Joined: Jun 2010
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QUOTE(christ86 @ Sep 5 2012, 01:55 PM) wanted to type alot, but offend too much if likewise expose all. it's a very sensitive issue towards malaysia economy n political issue. it relates alot of benefit party, n best part is, the last person to benefit is those who 'purchase' this scheme. n impact is huge within malaysia n malaysian who tend to 'invest' in it. it's an investment scheme in d end. make sure after reducing this money from ur epf or salary. retirement reaches u still have enuf. else might as well just use what u have on hand. very very sensitive.... personally to reply as a friend, dont get into this plan @.@ not positive <--- for me. It is an instant gain of 25% for me. Can you please advise the drawback that I might have missed out. Tq! |
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Nov 21 2012, 09:52 AM
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Senior Member
4,440 posts Joined: Jan 2010 From: Kuala Lumpur
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This scheme is not capital guaranteed rite?
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Nov 21 2012, 01:30 PM
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Senior Member
832 posts Joined: Sep 2012 From: Richmond, Oakland hills  
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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Nov 21 2012, 09:52 AM) This scheme is not capital guaranteed rite? Yes, it is not guaranteed."As with all investments, the returns from contributions made to PRS are not guaranteed and will depend on the performance of the PRS funds" by Sundaily. Copy and paste, http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/index.ph...-safe?&Itemid=2 Little info about Private Retirement scheme (PRS), http://www.sc.com.my/eng/html/ppa/prs_english.pdf This post has been edited by adolph: Nov 21 2012, 01:31 PM |
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Nov 21 2012, 05:38 PM
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Junior Member
36 posts Joined: Nov 2012
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QUOTE(christ86 @ Sep 5 2012, 02:55 PM) wanted to type alot, but offend too much if likewise expose all. Park all your money in bank or invest on your own lo, since you dont trust of fund manager and not interested on the tax relief~ it's a very sensitive issue towards malaysia economy n political issue. it relates alot of benefit party, n best part is, the last person to benefit is those who 'purchase' this scheme. n impact is huge within malaysia n malaysian who tend to 'invest' in it. it's an investment scheme in d end. make sure after reducing this money from ur epf or salary. retirement reaches u still have enuf. else might as well just use what u have on hand. very very sensitive.... personally to reply as a friend, dont get into this plan @.@ not positive <--- for me.  |
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Nov 21 2012, 10:48 PM
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Senior Member
1,522 posts Joined: Mar 2007 From: Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(yong417 @ Sep 5 2012, 04:15 PM) 3% of RM3k = RM90 well said, you are the real financial planner that fully utilize the potential of your income.7% of RM3k = RM210 12% of RM3k = RM360 . . . . . might not be significant to u... but it is still $$$ ma~~ well, what regular savings plan offers?? QUOTE(akelvin @ Sep 17 2012, 12:31 PM) It is an instant gain of 25% for me. Can you please advise the drawback that I might have missed out. Tq! The drawback is1)People who doesn't submit income tax, so they don't care as well. 2)some of the people feel 25% is still not a good figure for them. QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Nov 21 2012, 09:52 AM) This scheme is not capital guaranteed rite? Great Eastern Annuity plan is also entitle for the tax relief(RM3000) and it is guaranteed return. |
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Nov 22 2012, 05:36 PM
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Senior Member
1,423 posts Joined: Aug 2010 From: Sarawak
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Well, basically from my point of view, PRS is not much different than a normal Regular Monthly Investment in Unit Trust..
The introduction of PRS is more like an effort by the government to enhance the unit trust market or to encourage the citizens to invest in unit trusts.. Therefore, i see nothing interesting in it, rather than just a feeling of frustration because it is like introducing a new version of unit trust.. Noting new... |
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Nov 23 2012, 09:25 AM
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All Stars
21,308 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Kuala Lumpur 
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QUOTE(smartinvestor01 @ Nov 22 2012, 05:36 PM) Well, basically from my point of view, PRS is not much different than a normal Regular Monthly Investment in Unit Trust.. At least we get TAX RELIEF up to RM3000 from YA2012 to YA2021The introduction of PRS is more like an effort by the government to enhance the unit trust market or to encourage the citizens to invest in unit trusts.. Therefore, i see nothing interesting in it, rather than just a feeling of frustration because it is like introducing a new version of unit trust.. Noting new... |
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Nov 23 2012, 04:33 PM
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671 posts Joined: Dec 2011
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PPA do thing but yearly get RM8 fr each PRS members and 0.04% of the fund NAV. KNS.
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Nov 24 2012, 12:12 AM
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All Stars
21,308 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Kuala Lumpur
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You mean we need to pay RM8 annually to maintain PRS account ?
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Nov 24 2012, 03:41 PM
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2,429 posts Joined: Jul 2007
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anyone has the disclosure agreement for public mutual PRS? or the web site for PM PRS?
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Nov 24 2012, 03:43 PM
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52,874 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(ronnie @ Nov 24 2012, 12:12 AM) You mean we need to pay RM8 annually to maintain PRS account ? Yes. Read the brochure: http://www.ppa.my/wp-content/uploads/2012/...ewbookletBI.pdf |
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Nov 29 2012, 10:47 AM
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218 posts Joined: May 2008
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QUOTE(smartinvestor01 @ Nov 22 2012, 05:36 PM) Well, basically from my point of view, PRS is not much different than a normal Regular Monthly Investment in Unit Trust.. I Agree.The introduction of PRS is more like an effort by the government to enhance the unit trust market or to encourage the citizens to invest in unit trusts.. QUOTE(smartinvestor01 @ Nov 22 2012, 05:36 PM) Therefore, i see nothing interesting in it, rather than just a feeling of frustration because it is like introducing a new version of unit trust.. Noting new... I don't agree. There is actually something new. Tax relief for 10 years, and if compounded annually until you're 55, the annualized return rate will cover the Management Expense Ratio (1.5%) and Sales Load (3%). In other words, PRS is Unit Trust without fees  ! (and without liquidity ) A smart investor will know that fund fees is the number 1 drag to your long term fund return relative to the market returns. I have done the calculations. You can download the excel spreadheet --> Download Excel Spreadsheet from this Post Example scenario: If I'm 35 years old, and my tax rate is 26%. I contribute RM 3000 for 10 years (only) to take advantage of the tax relief. Assuming the PRS fund has 0% returns (that means no profit, no loss), then my Annual Compounded Interest is 1.95% until 55 years old. This is enough to cover for the "Yearly" Management Expense Ratio (1.5% of your total fund value) and Sales "Front" Load (3%). CODE Age Year Fund Contribution Fund Fund Value Income Tax Income Tax Total Return Amount Return (Year-End) Rate Relief Amount Rate (Ann.) Rate (Ann.) 35 2012 $3,000 0.0% $3,000.00 26.0% $780 35.02% 36 2013 $3,000 0.0% $6,000.00 26.0% $780 21.81% 37 2014 $3,000 0.0% $9,000.00 26.0% $780 15.82% 38 2015 $3,000 0.0% $12,000.00 26.0% $780 12.41% 39 2016 $3,000 0.0% $15,000.00 26.0% $780 10.20% 40 2017 $3,000 0.0% $18,000.00 26.0% $780 8.66% 41 2018 $3,000 0.0% $21,000.00 26.0% $780 7.53% 42 2019 $3,000 0.0% $24,000.00 26.0% $780 6.66% 43 2020 $3,000 0.0% $27,000.00 26.0% $780 5.96% 44 2021 $3,000 0.0% $30,000.00 26.0% $780 5.40% 45 2022 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 4.60% 46 2023 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 4.01% 47 2024 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 3.54% 48 2025 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 3.17% 49 2026 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 2.87% 50 2027 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 2.63% 51 2028 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 2.42% 52 2029 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 2.24% 53 2030 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 2.08% 54 2031 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 1.95% <--- Result 55 2032 This post has been edited by creativ: Nov 29 2012, 10:54 AM |
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Nov 29 2012, 01:46 PM
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Junior Member
291 posts Joined: Dec 2007
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QUOTE(creativ @ Nov 29 2012, 10:47 AM) I Agree. just wondering, how many ppl @ 35 years old pay tax @ 26%? I don't agree. There is actually something new. Tax relief for 10 years, and if compounded annually until you're 55, the annualized return rate will cover the Management Expense Ratio (1.5%) and Sales Load (3%). In other words, PRS is Unit Trust without fees ! (and without liquidity ) A smart investor will know that fund fees is the number 1 drag to your long term fund return relative to the market returns. I have done the calculations. You can download the excel spreadheet --> Download Excel Spreadsheet from this Post Example scenario: If I'm 35 years old, and my tax rate is 26%. I contribute RM 3000 for 10 years (only) to take advantage of the tax relief. Assuming the PRS fund has 0% returns (that means no profit, no loss), then my Annual Compounded Interest is 1.95% until 55 years old. This is enough to cover for the "Yearly" Management Expense Ratio (1.5% of your total fund value) and Sales "Front" Load (3%). CODE Age Year Fund Contribution Fund Fund Value Income Tax Income Tax Total Return Amount Return (Year-End) Rate Relief Amount Rate (Ann.) Rate (Ann.) 35 2012 $3,000 0.0% $3,000.00 26.0% $780 35.02% 36 2013 $3,000 0.0% $6,000.00 26.0% $780 21.81% 37 2014 $3,000 0.0% $9,000.00 26.0% $780 15.82% 38 2015 $3,000 0.0% $12,000.00 26.0% $780 12.41% 39 2016 $3,000 0.0% $15,000.00 26.0% $780 10.20% 40 2017 $3,000 0.0% $18,000.00 26.0% $780 8.66% 41 2018 $3,000 0.0% $21,000.00 26.0% $780 7.53% 42 2019 $3,000 0.0% $24,000.00 26.0% $780 6.66% 43 2020 $3,000 0.0% $27,000.00 26.0% $780 5.96% 44 2021 $3,000 0.0% $30,000.00 26.0% $780 5.40% 45 2022 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 4.60% 46 2023 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 4.01% 47 2024 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 3.54% 48 2025 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 3.17% 49 2026 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 2.87% 50 2027 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 2.63% 51 2028 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 2.42% 52 2029 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 2.24% 53 2030 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 2.08% 54 2031 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 1.95% <--- Result 55 2032  (i.e. annual income > 100k or approx 9k per mth) |
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Nov 29 2012, 01:58 PM
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Senior Member
12,534 posts Joined: Mar 2009 From: Penang, KL, China, Indonesia....
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QUOTE(yong417 @ Nov 29 2012, 01:46 PM) just wondering, how many ppl @ 35 years old pay tax @ 26%? Nowadays is much more common than you think.. mid level managers (~10-15 years experience) working in KL MNC can easily hit that amount.... (i.e. annual income > 100k or approx 9k per mth) This post has been edited by gark: Nov 29 2012, 01:59 PM |
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Nov 29 2012, 02:12 PM
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All Stars
21,308 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(yong417 @ Nov 29 2012, 01:46 PM) just wondering, how many ppl @ 35 years old pay tax @ 26%? Also Year-end Bonus is taxable... (i.e. annual income > 100k or approx 9k per mth) |
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Nov 29 2012, 03:00 PM
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Senior Member
4,436 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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QUOTE(yong417 @ Nov 29 2012, 01:46 PM) just wondering, how many ppl @ 35 years old pay tax @ 26%? Off my mind, I recall reading somewhere that around 1.5% of Malaysian citizen pays the highest tier tax, i.e 29 million x 1.5% = 435,000 tax-payers (i.e. annual income > 100k or approx 9k per mth) This PRS scheme is only as good as the tax relief. I won't be surprise, financially savvy contributors will not put more than RM 3,000.00 p.a. Once the tax relief is gone, the whole PRS scheme will be redundant. Xuzen |
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Nov 29 2012, 04:51 PM
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Senior Member
2,545 posts Joined: Sep 2011
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Read in The Star last Sunday that quite a number of funds have been approved. May I know which of them already start 'selling' the scheme? And any recommendation which one shall I go for?
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Nov 29 2012, 09:07 PM
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Junior Member
291 posts Joined: Dec 2007
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QUOTE(gark @ Nov 29 2012, 01:58 PM) Nowadays is much more common than you think.. mid level managers (~10-15 years experience) working in KL MNC can easily hit that amount.... QUOTE(ronnie @ Nov 29 2012, 02:12 PM) Also Year-end Bonus is taxable... if i not remember wrongly, our per capita income is abt 28k p.a.the illustration of the 1.95% seems only for a small group of ppl. |
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Nov 30 2012, 12:50 AM
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Senior Member
3,294 posts Joined: Dec 2005
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QUOTE(creativ @ Nov 29 2012, 10:47 AM) I Agree. You won't be getting tax relief if bringing the previous balance forward.I don't agree. There is actually something new. Tax relief for 10 years, and if compounded annually until you're 55, the annualized return rate will cover the Management Expense Ratio (1.5%) and Sales Load (3%). In other words, PRS is Unit Trust without fees ! (and without liquidity ) A smart investor will know that fund fees is the number 1 drag to your long term fund return relative to the market returns. I have done the calculations. You can download the excel spreadheet --> Download Excel Spreadsheet from this Post Example scenario: If I'm 35 years old, and my tax rate is 26%. I contribute RM 3000 for 10 years (only) to take advantage of the tax relief. Assuming the PRS fund has 0% returns (that means no profit, no loss), then my Annual Compounded Interest is 1.95% until 55 years old. This is enough to cover for the "Yearly" Management Expense Ratio (1.5% of your total fund value) and Sales "Front" Load (3%). CODE Age Year Fund Contribution Fund Fund Value Income Tax Income Tax Total Return Amount Return (Year-End) Rate Relief Amount Rate (Ann.) Rate (Ann.) 35 2012 $3,000 0.0% $3,000.00 26.0% $780 35.02% 36 2013 $3,000 0.0% $6,000.00 26.0% $780 21.81% 37 2014 $3,000 0.0% $9,000.00 26.0% $780 15.82% 38 2015 $3,000 0.0% $12,000.00 26.0% $780 12.41% 39 2016 $3,000 0.0% $15,000.00 26.0% $780 10.20% 40 2017 $3,000 0.0% $18,000.00 26.0% $780 8.66% 41 2018 $3,000 0.0% $21,000.00 26.0% $780 7.53% 42 2019 $3,000 0.0% $24,000.00 26.0% $780 6.66% 43 2020 $3,000 0.0% $27,000.00 26.0% $780 5.96% 44 2021 $3,000 0.0% $30,000.00 26.0% $780 5.40% 45 2022 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 4.60% 46 2023 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 4.01% 47 2024 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 3.54% 48 2025 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 3.17% 49 2026 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 2.87% 50 2027 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 2.63% 51 2028 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 2.42% 52 2029 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 2.24% 53 2030 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 2.08% 54 2031 $- 0.0% $30,000.00 0.0% $- 1.95% <--- Result 55 2032 |
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Nov 30 2012, 07:25 AM
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All Stars
21,308 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(echoesian @ Nov 30 2012, 12:50 AM) You won't be getting tax relief if bringing the previous balance forward. The example shows you contribute RM3000 every year for 10 years lah |
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Nov 30 2012, 09:16 AM
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Junior Member
218 posts Joined: May 2008
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QUOTE(yong417 @ Nov 29 2012, 09:07 PM) the illustration of the 1.95% seems only for a small group of ppl. yong417,That's why I shared the excel for download. When you personalize the values in the excel sheet, you will know if it is worth it to you or not. Two factors which will affect your annualized return: 1. The older you are, the higher your annualized return rate when you reach 55. 2. The higher your tax rate, the higher your annualized return rate when you reach 55 Having said the above, I'm not advocating that you start investing in PRS in your later years. It is never to late to start investing. The earlier you start, the better due the the compounding effect of interest. Investing early also lowers risk, because you have time on your side. Added on November 30, 2012, 10:51 am QUOTE(xuzen @ Nov 29 2012, 03:00 PM) This PRS scheme is only as good as the tax relief. I won't be surprise, financially savvy contributors will not put more than RM 3,000.00 p.a. Exactly!QUOTE(xuzen @ Nov 29 2012, 03:00 PM) Once the tax relief is gone, the whole PRS scheme will be redundant. You're right. I'm predicting the PRS scheme financially savvy, young, new contributors will start falling out the closer we are to year 2021.I'm also hoping the government will extend the tax relief beyond 2021, if they genuinely wants to encourage the rakyat to save for retirement. (Please don't bring politics into this thread) This post has been edited by creativ: Nov 30 2012, 10:59 AM |
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Nov 30 2012, 04:11 PM
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Senior Member
2,207 posts Joined: Aug 2008
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Hi, are the insurance's Annuity plan & PRS different products that entitle tax relief RM3K each (RM6K if got both) or just one of them is entitled for 3K tax relief? Confuse la...Thanks.
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Nov 30 2012, 04:57 PM
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Junior Member
104 posts Joined: Jun 2011
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QUOTE(xuzen @ Nov 29 2012, 03:00 PM) Off my mind, I recall reading somewhere that around 1.5% of Malaysian citizen pays the highest tier tax, i.e 29 million x 1.5% = 435,000 tax-payers lesser than that, 11 millions workers (not entire population) = 1.5% = 165,000This PRS scheme is only as good as the tax relief. I won't be surprise, financially savvy contributors will not put more than RM 3,000.00 p.a. Once the tax relief is gone, the whole PRS scheme will be redundant. Xuzen |
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Nov 30 2012, 08:48 PM
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Senior Member
3,294 posts Joined: Dec 2005
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QUOTE(mars1069 @ Nov 30 2012, 04:11 PM) Hi, are the insurance's Annuity plan & PRS different products that entitle tax relief RM3K each (RM6K if got both) or just one of them is entitled for 3K tax relief? Confuse la...Thanks. Both annuity and PRS share the same 3k tax relief |
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Nov 30 2012, 10:10 PM
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Junior Member
105 posts Joined: Nov 2006
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As long as your monthly income is more than RM4K, you will benefit from PRS RM3K tax relief.
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Dec 4 2012, 10:18 AM
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Junior Member
218 posts Joined: May 2008
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Has anybody gone on-board PRS already? If yes, which Fund House have you chosen?
We only have a couple of weeks left to catch the 2012 boat. |
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Dec 4 2012, 01:08 PM
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Junior Member
26 posts Joined: Mar 2009
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I applied Public mutual moderate convention fund. Paid RM3k. However it required Management fees (2%) + service cahrge (1.5%) and the PPA account open for RM10.
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Dec 4 2012, 02:09 PM
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All Stars
21,308 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(chee_hoong82 @ Dec 4 2012, 01:08 PM) I applied Public mutual moderate convention fund. Paid RM3k. However it required Management fees (2%) + service cahrge (1.5%) and the PPA account open for RM10. Do they deduct the 2% + 1.5% from the total RM3k ? So do you get RM3k Tax Relief or lesser ? |
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Dec 4 2012, 04:30 PM
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Senior Member
3,294 posts Joined: Dec 2005
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HwangIM is cheapest among the three at the moment.
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Dec 4 2012, 07:23 PM
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Senior Member
919 posts Joined: May 2005
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how much hwangIM is charging, there are not many hwang office and branches around in KL and PJ.
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Dec 4 2012, 07:46 PM
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Senior Member
8,259 posts Joined: Sep 2009
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Can we invest in few PRS provider? Maybe 2 provider? As not all provider is going full fledge yet, only next year we will know who is offering the best deal..
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Dec 4 2012, 08:59 PM
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Junior Member
218 posts Joined: May 2008
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QUOTE(Kaka23 @ Dec 4 2012, 07:46 PM) Can we invest in few PRS provider? Maybe 2 provider? Yes we can:
This post has been edited by creativ: Dec 4 2012, 08:59 PM |
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Dec 4 2012, 09:09 PM
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Senior Member
2,545 posts Joined: Sep 2011
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I'm interested as well. Do we just walk-in the branches and apply for the account on the spot?
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Dec 6 2012, 08:25 PM
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All Stars
10,314 posts Joined: Dec 2009 From: Malaysia
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Lyners, pls help urgently.
I intend to invest in this prs scheme. So far i think only ing, cimb, hwang and public have launched prs scheme. Am doing a comparison and so far these are what i manage to find out. Public; 3% entry cost. If taking growth fund, there is a 1.6% management and admin fees yearly. Transfer fee to other prs operators at rm25 Hwang; No entry cost. Exit cost unknown. Management and admin fees unknown but someone told me it is 2.5% yearly. Transfer fee to other prs operator at rm50. Ppa charges is the same for all funds. Rm8 for every year if there is deposit. Exempted for entry year and year where account is not active. Not sure about ing and cimb. Pls advise as i intend to buy asap. Thanks. |
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Dec 6 2012, 08:40 PM
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Senior Member
3,294 posts Joined: Dec 2005
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I just opened a PRS account with Hwang yesterday with a pretty nice young lady CRM. For HwangIM, there is no sales charge, trustee fee is 0.04%, management fee is up to 1.8%, switching is 0%. Those charges by PPA is same for all the providers.
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Dec 6 2012, 08:46 PM
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Junior Member
70 posts Joined: Jan 2009
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If not mistaken, HwangIM has the highest management fee among the PRS providers, which is up to 1.8%. Other providers only charge 1.5%....
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Dec 6 2012, 08:47 PM
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All Stars
10,314 posts Joined: Dec 2009 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(echoesian @ Dec 6 2012, 08:40 PM) I just opened a PRS account with Hwang yesterday with a pretty nice young lady CRM. For HwangIM, there is no sales charge, trustee fee is 0.04%, management fee is up to 1.8%, switching is 0%. Those charges by PPA is same for all the providers. Pretty nice young lady crm???Trustee fee for public is the same at 0.04%. Is hwang's 1.8% for the growth fund or moderate or conservative. Public have different rates for different fund. Their most expensive is growth at 1.5%. Are you sure hwang does not have exit fees? |
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Dec 6 2012, 09:58 PM
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Senior Member
3,294 posts Joined: Dec 2005
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QUOTE(kochin @ Dec 6 2012, 08:47 PM) Pretty nice young lady crm??? Not sure about exit fees, what is that actually?Trustee fee for public is the same at 0.04%. Is hwang's 1.8% for the growth fund or moderate or conservative. Public have different rates for different fund. Their most expensive is growth at 1.5%. Are you sure hwang does not have exit fees? Growth - up to 1.8% Moderate - up to 1.5% Conservative - up to 1.3% |
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Dec 6 2012, 10:22 PM
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All Stars
10,314 posts Joined: Dec 2009 From: Malaysia
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ok, i got the breakdown liao.
taking growth fund as an example. hwang is charging 0 entry fees, 0 exit fees, management fees of 1.8% + trustee fees of 0.4%; PPA is taking another 0.4% as management fees; transfer fees at rm50 per transaction to other providers PB is charging 3% upfront fees (entry fees), 0 exit fees, management fees of 1.5%, trustee fees of 0.6%; PPA is taking another 0.4% as management fees; transfer fees at rm25 per transaction to other providers so basically it boils down to fund performance as the difference is quite minor. any advice on which of these perform better historically? fyi, cimb is at management fees of 1.4% + trustee fees of 0.4%. transfer at rm75. cheers! |
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Dec 6 2012, 11:10 PM
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Senior Member
546 posts Joined: Sep 2010
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QUOTE(kochin @ Dec 6 2012, 10:22 PM) ok, i got the breakdown liao. Happy Investing!taking growth fund as an example. hwang is charging 0 entry fees, 0 exit fees, management fees of 1.8% + trustee fees of 0.4%; PPA is taking another 0.4% as management fees; transfer fees at rm50 per transaction to other providers PB is charging 3% upfront fees (entry fees), 0 exit fees, management fees of 1.5%, trustee fees of 0.6%; PPA is taking another 0.4% as management fees; transfer fees at rm25 per transaction to other providers As far as Public Mutual PRS fund is concern, contributors may obtained it from 2 distribution channels, either Public Bank or Public Mutual Private Retirement Consultant (PRC). The entry fee is at 3% with no exit fee for the moment and applies to all 3 core funds & 3 shariah compliance PRS funds. Interested contributors may check out Public Mutual PRS fund titles at www.ppa.my. However, the management fee of 1.5%pa DOES NOT apply to all Public Mutual PRS funds as it varies from one fund to another. Do visit the nearest Public Bank branch and get a Product Highthlights Sheet (PHS) so basically it boils down to fund performance as the difference is quite minor. Agree any advice on which of these perform better historically? PRS funds have only been launched at nothing more than 7 days, hence... fyi, cimb is at management fees of 1.4% + trustee fees of 0.4%. transfer at rm75. cheers! This post has been edited by felixwang: Dec 7 2012, 03:09 PM |
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Dec 6 2012, 11:31 PM
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Senior Member
8,259 posts Joined: Sep 2009
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I want to invest...
Added on December 7, 2012, 12:02 amCan put beneficiary in PRS account? This post has been edited by Kaka23: Dec 7 2012, 12:02 AM |
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Dec 7 2012, 12:06 AM
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All Stars
10,314 posts Joined: Dec 2009 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(felixwang @ Dec 6 2012, 11:10 PM) Happy Investing! but i got it from public mutual website wor:http://www.publicmutual.com.my/LinkClick.a...os%3d&tabid=496 pls advise. thanks. |
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Dec 7 2012, 09:32 AM
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Senior Member
952 posts Joined: Feb 2011
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QUOTE(kochin @ Dec 6 2012, 10:22 PM) ok, i got the breakdown liao. go for default option. u can avoid any manual transfer in future. or, choose which fund is match with ur risk tolerance. just stick with the fund until u retire.taking growth fund as an example. hwang is charging 0 entry fees, 0 exit fees, management fees of 1.8% + trustee fees of 0.4%; PPA is taking another 0.4% as management fees; transfer fees at rm50 per transaction to other providers PB is charging 3% upfront fees (entry fees), 0 exit fees, management fees of 1.5%, trustee fees of 0.6%; PPA is taking another 0.4% as management fees; transfer fees at rm25 per transaction to other providers so basically it boils down to fund performance as the difference is quite minor. any advice on which of these perform better historically? fyi, cimb is at management fees of 1.4% + trustee fees of 0.4%. transfer at rm75. cheers! market always volitile,u just need to ride with market. regular contribution is better way compare with lump sump, if u not sure abt market directions. historically? PRS is new to market, so, no past record. but basicaly, its a UT. so, read the relevant documents, the asset allocation, local, oversea. and u can compare similar pure UT funds in the market. u can get some clear picture. get a PRS consultant to brief/guides you. suggestion only. |
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Dec 7 2012, 02:39 PM
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Junior Member
359 posts Joined: Dec 2012
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i spoke to a PRS agent and apparently i was encouraged to buy their unit trust instead. In fact i was told that it is the government that put a mandatory for these banks to set up this PRS and they had no choice but to accept the government offer.
Also the fund size according to the agent will be very small, whereby only higher income tax payers will buy and max will only be RM3k. Imagine in reality who and how many ppl in Malaysia really pay tax? This times RM3k/year and then divided into 8 funds approved by government. Therefore the PRS fund size is very small for each bank and also no historical proven record. I really into this PRS as it give 26% returns every year (via income tax). on the other hand, i am worried that with PRS given at lowest priority among the other unit trust by the 8 banks, the capability of fund managers assigned by the bank may not generate any growth of money. Any thoughts? |
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Dec 7 2012, 03:17 PM
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Junior Member
218 posts Joined: May 2008
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QUOTE(turbopips @ Dec 7 2012, 02:39 PM) i spoke to a PRS agent and apparently i was encouraged to buy their unit trust instead. In fact i was told that it is the government that put a mandatory for these banks to set up this PRS and they had no choice but to accept the government offer. Firstly, Unit Trust Agents cum PRS Agents are sales men. They will want to sell you products that gives them the highest commission. Selling Unit Trust gives them higher commission than selling PRS (compare the sales charge) Also the fund size according to the agent will be very small, whereby only higher income tax payers will buy and max will only be RM3k. Imagine in reality who and how many ppl in Malaysia really pay tax? This times RM3k/year and then divided into 8 funds approved by government. Therefore the PRS fund size is very small for each bank and also no historical proven record. I really into this PRS as it give 26% returns every year (via income tax). on the other hand, i am worried that with PRS given at lowest priority among the other unit trust by the 8 banks, the capability of fund managers assigned by the bank may not generate any growth of money. Any thoughts? Secondly, what's wrong with small fund size? The drawback of big fund size is that the fund manager will incur "impact cost" when managing the fund. Thirdly, PRS is not managed by banks, just like Unit trusts, they are managed by Unit Trust Management Company (UTMC) Fourthly, if you are worried if the UTMC fund manager capability, you can check on his historical performance in managing his other funds. (Of course, historical performance does not guarantee future performance.) This post has been edited by creativ: Dec 7 2012, 03:20 PM |
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Dec 7 2012, 03:34 PM
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Senior Member
546 posts Joined: Sep 2010
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QUOTE(Kaka23 @ Dec 6 2012, 11:31 PM) I want to invest... Added on December 7, 2012, 12:02 amCan put beneficiary in PRS account? Ans: Unlike EPF, nomination of beneficiaries is YET to be made available to PRS. Added on December 7, 2012, 3:51 pm QUOTE(turbopips @ Dec 7 2012, 02:39 PM) i spoke to a PRS agent and apparently i was encouraged to buy their unit trust instead. This post has been edited by felixwang: Dec 7 2012, 03:51 PMIn fact i was told that it is the government that put a mandatory for these banks to set up this PRS Ans:Untrue and they had no choice but to accept the government offer Ans:Untrue . Also the fund size according to the agent will be very smal Ans:Untrue l, whereby only higher income tax payers will buy Ans:Untrue and max will only be RM3k Ans:True, if you are referring to tax exemption . Imagine in reality who and how many ppl in Malaysia really pay tax? This times RM3k/year and then divided into 8 funds approved by governmentAns: 8 PRS Providers and NOT 8 Funds . Therefore the PRS fund size is very small for each bank Ans:Untrue and also no historical proven record.Ans: True, because it is NEW I really into this PRS as it give 26% returns every year (via income tax) Ans: Whether you are referring to "investment returns" or "tax returns", both are NOT true. Frankly speaking, I have the slightest idea what you are trying to say since the beginning of your comment. . on the other hand, i am worried that with PRS given at lowest priority among the other unit trust by the 8 banks Ans:We are referred as PRS Providers and some of the PRS Providers distribution channel is via finance institution (Banks etc.) , the capability of fund managers assigned by the bank may not generate any growth of money.Ans: I am not following you at all Any thoughts? |
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Dec 7 2012, 04:01 PM
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Senior Member
952 posts Joined: Feb 2011
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QUOTE(turbopips @ Dec 7 2012, 02:39 PM) i spoke to a PRS agent and apparently i was encouraged to buy their unit trust instead. In fact i was told that it is the government that put a mandatory for these banks to set up this PRS and they had no choice but to accept the government offer. both pure UT and PRS(UT as well) has pros and cons respectively. u need to understand it first. the most important how much risk u willing to take. PRS is not only for tax payers. tax reliaef only for 10 yrs.Also the fund size according to the agent will be very small, whereby only higher income tax payers will buy and max will only be RM3k. Imagine in reality who and how many ppl in Malaysia really pay tax? This times RM3k/year and then divided into 8 funds approved by government. Therefore the PRS fund size is very small for each bank and also no historical proven record. I really into this PRS as it give 26% returns every year (via income tax). on the other hand, i am worried that with PRS given at lowest priority among the other unit trust by the 8 banks, the capability of fund managers assigned by the bank may not generate any growth of money. Any thoughts? and there are many ppls dont hv epf, so, they will may make use this scheme with lower SC. if the stament is correct...government that put a mandatory....... should thanks for it, becasue, what they done is good job. 1. understand abt saving is important for malaysian. 2. understand tht EPF money is not enuf for retirment, its not abt the fund size.........., smaller size easy to manage than bigger size. u can ask any FM. sure PRS FM are experience one. do you think, the management will assign fresh FM. even the PRS agent need hv at least 3 yrs experiance as UT agent. my tought only. |
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Dec 7 2012, 04:07 PM
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Senior Member
4,440 posts Joined: Jan 2010 From: Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(turbopips @ Dec 7 2012, 02:39 PM) i spoke to a PRS agent and apparently i was encouraged to buy their unit trust instead. In fact i was told that it is the government that put a mandatory for these banks to set up this PRS and they had no choice but to accept the government offer. How did you calculate this 26% returns per year via income tax? I really dont understand what ure trying to say here.Also the fund size according to the agent will be very small, whereby only higher income tax payers will buy and max will only be RM3k. Imagine in reality who and how many ppl in Malaysia really pay tax? This times RM3k/year and then divided into 8 funds approved by government. Therefore the PRS fund size is very small for each bank and also no historical proven record. I really into this PRS as it give 26% returns every year (via income tax). on the other hand, i am worried that with PRS given at lowest priority among the other unit trust by the 8 banks, the capability of fund managers assigned by the bank may not generate any growth of money. Any thoughts? This post has been edited by cybermaster98: Dec 7 2012, 04:09 PM |
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Dec 7 2012, 04:09 PM
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Senior Member
546 posts Joined: Sep 2010
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QUOTE(kochin @ Dec 7 2012, 12:06 AM) but i got it from public mutual website wor: Ans: The following are the schedule of management fee on all 3 core funds - PRS Growth Fund (1.5%pa), PRS Moderate Fund (1.25%pa) and PRS Conservative Fund (1.00%pa). The same schedule of management fee applies to all 3 shariah compliance funds. Do check out Public Mutual Product Highlights Sheet (PHS) at any Public Bank branch nears you. http://www.publicmutual.com.my/LinkClick.a...os%3d&tabid=496 pls advise. thanks. |
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Dec 7 2012, 04:21 PM
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Senior Member
546 posts Joined: Sep 2010
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QUOTE(kparam77 @ Dec 7 2012, 04:01 PM) Even the PRS agent need hv at least 3 yrs experiance as UT agent. This post has been edited by felixwang: Dec 7 2012, 04:23 PMAns: PRS Distribution channel via agent is known as Private Retirement Scheme Consultant or in short, PRC. For those who are registered with FIMM for 3 years of more, can be exempted from PRS examination with t&c. As for new PRC candidates who have been registered with FIMM for a period of less than 3 years , will have to take PRS examination as to obtain their PRC license. So far, PRS examination is only made available in Mahsa, University College, KL. http://www.fimm.com.my/contents.asp?sid=10...0160&zid=100009 my tought only. |
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Dec 7 2012, 04:34 PM
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Senior Member
4,436 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Dec 7 2012, 04:07 PM) How did you calculate this 26% returns per year via income tax? I really dont understand what ure trying to say here. Lets say your total income for 2012 is RM 103,000.00. The tax you have to pay to our beloved govt is RM 14,315.00 (first RM100K) + RM 780.00 (next RM 3K @ 26%) = RM 15,095.00 accoding to the LHDN schedule. If you have made a RM 3,000 contribution to PRS, then you need to pay RM 14,315.00 only because the govt allowed you a RM 3,000.00 tax relief from this scheme. In essense you save RM 780.00 in tax. If that is the case, you are actually contributing only RM 3,000.00 - 780.00 = RM 2,220.00. So in essense, you have already made a 26% gain. Understand? Xuzen |
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Dec 8 2012, 12:51 AM
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Junior Member
359 posts Joined: Dec 2012
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Thanks to all sifus for the advice as this is the first time I will invest in ut as I normally invest in equities.
Actually the prs agent is from public mutual. I dunno how true but agent told me she makes the same commission but she prefers to invest in normal ut than prs due to what I stated earlier. But when I explain about close to 26% yoy return (10yrs) then only she realize my intention of buy prs. I am not sure if rm3k /yr is a lot or not when invest in ut but I am quite sure most ppl will not buy more than 3k per yr for prs. And if yr tax bracket not high, he/she may think twice or wait a few yrs first to see performance before buy. The agent says bigger fund offers more flexibility n liquidity n is better. I read the brochure n the same fund managers manage the three funds(growth, moderate n conservative). They r liew mun hon and zaharudin ghazali. I have no idea who they r or their track record. In hong kong, there is no epf equivalent,, but employees have to contribute a certain amount thru prs n some of the funds is losing money n my counterparts there are cursing. At least here the gov is giving ard 26% "discount" depend on yr tax bracket. So far I only consult public mutual so if others have consulted other providers do share yr thoughts of which prs to buy. Thank you. |
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Dec 8 2012, 09:38 AM
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Senior Member
4,440 posts Joined: Jan 2010 From: Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(xuzen @ Dec 7 2012, 04:34 PM) Lets say your total income for 2012 is RM 103,000.00. Thats wht i thought as well. But he just mentioned 26% which isnt really correct. He's merely saving on the equivalent of a 26% tax on the taxable amount above 100K which equates to RM780 only for the whole year. The tax you have to pay to our beloved govt is RM 14,315.00 (first RM100K) + RM 780.00 (next RM 3K @ 26%) = RM 15,095.00 accoding to the LHDN schedule. If you have made a RM 3,000 contribution to PRS, then you need to pay RM 14,315.00 only because the govt allowed you a RM 3,000.00 tax relief from this scheme. In essense you save RM 780.00 in tax. If that is the case, you are actually contributing only RM 3,000.00 - 780.00 = RM 2,220.00. So in essense, you have already made a 26% gain. Understand? Xuzen But my question is, to get that RM780 tax relief per year, you have to ensure you invest in a PRS fund that gives you back a better return. I mean it would be pointless to invest in something that 'loses' money rite? So although u may be saving RM780 from taxes, you risk losing much more through the investment itself. Is this a risk or am i being too paranoid? |
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Dec 8 2012, 09:42 AM
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Senior Member
4,436 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Dec 8 2012, 09:38 AM) Thats wht i thought as well. But he just mentioned 26% which isnt really correct. He's merely saving on the equivalent of a 26% tax on the taxable amount above 100K which equates to RM780 only for the whole year. If you cannot stomach a 70% equity: 30% fixed income exposure, then you can opt for 20% equity: 80%fixed income fund aka conservative. But my question is, to get that RM780 tax relief per year, you have to ensure you invest in a PRS fund that gives you back a better return. I mean it would be pointless to invest in something that 'loses' money rite? So although u may be saving RM780 from taxes, you risk losing much more through the investment itself. Is this a risk or am i being too paranoid? It all depends on contributor risk profile. Xuzen |
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Dec 8 2012, 11:24 AM
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Junior Member
218 posts Joined: May 2008
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QUOTE(turbopips @ Dec 8 2012, 12:51 AM) The agent says bigger fund offers more flexibility n liquidity n is better. Hi Turbopips, I would stopped taking advise from your unit trust agent if I were you. If you want to buy from her, go ahead, she is a sales person after all. The only benefit I see is that she can help you with the administrative work of buying a fund from her company. But when it comes to investment and financial advice, stop taking it from her. |
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Dec 8 2012, 12:17 PM
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Senior Member
572 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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QUOTE(xuzen @ Dec 7 2012, 04:34 PM) Lets say your total income for 2012 is RM 103,000.00. A person with total annual income RM 103,000.00, may save $780 bcos they are in highest tax bracket 26%The tax you have to pay to our beloved govt is RM 14,315.00 (first RM100K) + RM 780.00 (next RM 3K @ 26%) = RM 15,095.00 accoding to the LHDN schedule. If you have made a RM 3,000 contribution to PRS, then you need to pay RM 14,315.00 only because the govt allowed you a RM 3,000.00 tax relief from this scheme. In essense you save RM 780.00 in tax. If that is the case, you are actually contributing only RM 3,000.00 - 780.00 = RM 2,220.00. So in essense, you have already made a 26% gain. Understand? Xuzen How about those total TAXABLE income RM 53,000.00 contributing the same $3000 save how much? 19% If i sells PRS i also will use 26% to promote as if all malaysians earns over taxable 100,000 a year most ppl who consider only thinks about money but never realised who they are, after invested only knows their tax bracket only 3% Added on December 8, 2012, 12:26 pm QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Dec 8 2012, 09:38 AM) Thats wht i thought as well. But he just mentioned 26% which isnt really correct. He's merely saving on the equivalent of a 26% tax on the taxable amount above 100K which equates to RM780 only for the whole year. Let say u contribute 3000 month for 3 yearsBut my question is, to get that RM780 tax relief per year, you have to ensure you invest in a PRS fund that gives you back a better return. I mean it would be pointless to invest in something that 'loses' money rite? So although u may be saving RM780 from taxes, you risk losing much more through the investment itself. Is this a risk or am i being too paranoid? U would have contribute a total $108,000 Is there any possbilities at end of year 3 your investment is worth = $92,000? U need to earn back your capital the next few years How different is PRS compare to regular unit trusts? Does EFP pays u less after u contribute $108,000? This post has been edited by Kinitos: Dec 8 2012, 12:26 PM |
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Dec 8 2012, 01:21 PM
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Senior Member
4,436 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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QUOTE(Kinitos @ Dec 8 2012, 12:17 PM) A person with total annual income RM 103,000.00, may save $780 bcos they are in highest tax bracket 26% Funny enough, the people who are very interested in this PRS scheme tend to be people who are at the highest tax bracket. How about those total TAXABLE income RM 53,000.00 contributing the same $3000 save how much? 19% If i sells PRS i also will use 26% to promote as if all malaysians earns over taxable 100,000 a year most ppl who consider only thinks about money but never realised who they are, after invested only knows their tax bracket only 3% Those at the say 3% tax bracket tend not to be so interested in this PRS thingy. I have an epiphany: Since some PRS provider are giving zero upfront charges and all else being equal, guess my money will go into PRS vis-a-vis traditional cash investment into UT. Bye bye Pub-Mut; hello HwangDBS. I am happy this PRS happened, maybe it will kick-start the beginning of zero upfront era for the industry. Yeah, Pub-Mut the lumbering and slumbering giant will probably awaken by this and start to give better return to its investors. Zero upfront fee would be a good start. Xuzen |
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Dec 8 2012, 01:44 PM
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Junior Member
359 posts Joined: Dec 2012
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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Dec 8 2012, 09:38 AM) Thats wht i thought as well. But he just mentioned 26% which isnt really correct. He's merely saving on the equivalent of a 26% tax on the taxable amount above 100K which equates to RM780 only for the whole year. Maybe I have confused u. Rm780/3000=26%. if the fund mgr didn't make any money, u get 26%return from the3k u invested. The question is whether the fund mgr is capable to grow or lose yr capital?But my question is, to get that RM780 tax relief per year, you have to ensure you invest in a PRS fund that gives you back a better return. I mean it would be pointless to invest in something that 'loses' money rite? So although u may be saving RM780 from taxes, you risk losing much more through the investment itself. Is this a risk or am i being too paranoid? U mentioned above "to get that rm780 tax relief per year, u have to ensure you invest in a prs fund that gives you back better return" -- this is not true. Whether or not the fund perform, if u invested rm3k per year n yr tax bracket is 26%, u will get yr rm780 tax relief. Hope this explains. Added on December 8, 2012, 1:55 pm QUOTE(creativ @ Dec 8 2012, 11:24 AM) Hi Turbopips, I call public bank but the salesperson I talked to only sell ut,not prs. And she does not want to recommend me any agent, citing she don't know. Last week I saw a public mutual roadshow, n finally I met someone who can sell prs. I would stopped taking advise from your unit trust agent if I were you. If you want to buy from her, go ahead, she is a sales person after all. The only benefit I see is that she can help you with the administrative work of buying a fund from her company. But when it comes to investment and financial advice, stop taking it from her. In short, she is the only agent I know who sell prs. Any recommendation of good prs agent contacts for me? This post has been edited by turbopips: Dec 8 2012, 01:55 PM |
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Dec 8 2012, 01:57 PM
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Senior Member
4,440 posts Joined: Jan 2010 From: Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(turbopips @ Dec 8 2012, 01:44 PM) Maybe I have confused u. Rm780/3000=26%. if the fund mgr didn't make any money, u get 26%return from the3k u invested. The question is whether the fund mgr is capable to grow or lose yr capital? U didnt get what i was trying to say. Of course i know ull get RM780 when u invest min 3K in PRS. Thats confirmed. But what i meant was, you may get Rm780 from the Gov in the form of a tax relief, but if your fund loses money then whatever small amount of tax relief you get will be easily obscured by the loss of your capital investment.U mentioned above "to get that rm780 tax relief per year, u have to ensure you invest in a prs fund that gives you back better return" -- this is not true. Whether or not the fund perform, if u invested rm3k per year n yr tax bracket is 26%, u will get yr rm780 tax relief. Hope this explains. |
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Dec 8 2012, 02:09 PM
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Junior Member
359 posts Joined: Dec 2012
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QUOTE(xuzen @ Dec 8 2012, 01:21 PM) Funny enough, the people who are very interested in this PRS scheme tend to be people who are at the highest tax bracket. Yes u r rite. If my tax bracket is not more than 15%, I will think twice to invest in prs. Those at the say 3% tax bracket tend not to be so interested in this PRS thingy. I have an epiphany: Since some PRS provider are giving zero upfront charges and all else being equal, guess my money will go into PRS vis-a-vis traditional cash investment into UT. Bye bye Pub-Mut; hello HwangDBS. I am happy this PRS happened, maybe it will kick-start the beginning of zero upfront era for the industry. Yeah, Pub-Mut the lumbering and slumbering giant will probably awaken by this and start to give better return to its investors. Zero upfront fee would be a good start. Xuzen Malaysia income tax is too high n u easily hit the high bracket. Nowadays a person cannot say he is rich if he/she earn rm 120k per year. our salary increase , inflation increase even more, but the income tied to tax bracket remains. Btw, do share with us the hwang dbs contacts if u think it's better. Thanks |
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Dec 8 2012, 09:40 PM
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All Stars
10,314 posts Joined: Dec 2009 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(xuzen @ Dec 8 2012, 01:21 PM) Funny enough, the people who are very interested in this PRS scheme tend to be people who are at the highest tax bracket. boss, even though i agree hwang in all essence is the cheaper entry and seems to be the best among all prs fund currently in terms of entry cost, i think i would still go for pb.Those at the say 3% tax bracket tend not to be so interested in this PRS thingy. I have an epiphany: Since some PRS provider are giving zero upfront charges and all else being equal, guess my money will go into PRS vis-a-vis traditional cash investment into UT. Bye bye Pub-Mut; hello HwangDBS. I am happy this PRS happened, maybe it will kick-start the beginning of zero upfront era for the industry. Yeah, Pub-Mut the lumbering and slumbering giant will probably awaken by this and start to give better return to its investors. Zero upfront fee would be a good start. Xuzen reasons: 1. performance of the fund is more important. the differences is very minimal. although i hate that pb charges 3% entry cost. just hope that pb is gonna recoup this charges over the years. let's not forget their yearly maintenance fees is lower than hwangs. and hwangs have a huge disclaimer that they reserve right to change their fees structure. imagine they impose exit cost later, you would be paying exit fees and future values. and those who invest in prs is definitely going for long term. 2. there's cumulative benefits with pb. hopefully this constitute as part of their calculation towards qualifying for gold status. free insurances, free will writing, lower cost for fund management/switchingand btw yes, this prs biggest attraction is for the tax relief. 26% for the highest income bracket. even if the fund does not give positive return, we would have gotten the gain upfront equivalent to our tax relief lor. so any syt agent wanna service me? kekeke. |
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Dec 9 2012, 11:35 AM
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Senior Member
3,294 posts Joined: Dec 2005
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QUOTE(Limster88 @ Dec 6 2012, 08:46 PM) If not mistaken, HwangIM has the highest management fee among the PRS providers, which is up to 1.8%. Other providers only charge 1.5%.... Don't forget most of the other providers do charge sales charge, even the annual mgmt fee is higher if you calculate in a longer term, it will be still cheaper... |
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Dec 10 2012, 10:24 AM
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Senior Member
1,542 posts Joined: Jan 2005 From: Seri Kembangan
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The income tax relief for PRS start from this year or next year? I ask my unit trust agents and all of them haven't got a license to sell PRS. It's difficult to find one as at now.
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Dec 10 2012, 11:26 AM
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All Stars
10,314 posts Joined: Dec 2009 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(netcrawler @ Dec 10 2012, 10:24 AM) The income tax relief for PRS start from this year or next year? I ask my unit trust agents and all of them haven't got a license to sell PRS. It's difficult to find one as at now. just call them and i'm sure they will send someone to service you lor.but can we request for specific requirements of the agents? kekeke.  |
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Dec 10 2012, 12:50 PM
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Senior Member
4,440 posts Joined: Jan 2010 From: Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(kochin @ Dec 8 2012, 09:40 PM) and btw yes, this prs biggest attraction is for the tax relief. 26% for the highest income bracket. even if the fund does not give positive return, we would have gotten the gain upfront equivalent to our tax relief lor. So in short, if your fund loses money then dont dream about having that small tax relief cover your losses. Dont forget that the main purpose of the PRS scheme is for ppl to pump money into our country's financial system. Thats the only way to stay afloat in times of crisis. So basically, the rakyat is helping with a bailout of our financial system. Although not at critical level yet but if both Europe and US remain in recession for 2013, then the domino effect will hit Malaysia. So dont just blindly invest in any PRS fund. Learn about the fund and its potential before committing. And dont ever be satisfied with a RM65 monthly savings. |
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Dec 10 2012, 01:29 PM
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All Stars
10,314 posts Joined: Dec 2009 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Dec 10 2012, 12:50 PM) If the fund doesnt give you a positive return, you will be facing big losses overall la. That income tax relief is only worth max RM780 per year for the highest tax bracket. Whats so great about RM780 per year? Thats equivalent to a tax saving of RM 65 per month. How many ppl are in that tax bracket anyway? U gotta be earning more than RM8,300 per month to 'qualify'. boss, a bit far fetch, no?So in short, if your fund loses money then dont dream about having that small tax relief cover your losses. Dont forget that the main purpose of the PRS scheme is for ppl to pump money into our country's financial system. Thats the only way to stay afloat in times of crisis. So basically, the rakyat is helping with a bailout of our financial system. Although not at critical level yet but if both Europe and US remain in recession for 2013, then the domino effect will hit Malaysia. So dont just blindly invest in any PRS fund. Learn about the fund and its potential before committing. And dont ever be satisfied with a RM65 monthly savings. let's break it down to simple layman approach, shall we? The myth 1. IF the fund breaks even or increase, then no problem 2. IF the fund losses overall, what are the chances of it loses more than 20+% every freaking year? although i know where you are coming from but for me personally, my views are: The fact 1. IF we don't invest in this scheme, the gomen CONFIRM taxing me at the scheduled % 2. IF i invest in this scheme, i would have CONFIRM save my scheduled % tax rates so in total: 1. i have a fact that i would 'safe' certain percentage; 2. a possible scenario of gaining further or losing more than my investment. we are talking the best use of my rm3k to make my $$ work harder for me mah. i do agree i might have better use for my money overall but specifically for 3k, i am 'hoping' i might gain from this lor. no right or wrong, it is a matter of choice nia. btw, if i assume a salaried worker at RM7150 per month + 2 months bonus, he/she would be in the 26% tax bracket too (without tax relief). another scenario; the person earns rm6300 per month + 2 months bonus + he is getting rm1k per month from his rental of property (or other side income equivalent), also hit RM100k per annum. let's not forget; for taxable income >50k, already 19% >70k, already 24% that seems like an awful lot to me leh even at 19%. |
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Dec 10 2012, 04:10 PM
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Senior Member
4,436 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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QUOTE(kochin @ Dec 8 2012, 09:40 PM) boss, even though i agree hwang in all essence is the cheaper entry and seems to be the best among all prs fund currently in terms of entry cost, i think i would still go for pb. Pub-Mut PRS is a seperate entity, it does not count towards the Gold Status. So, no free insurance & free will writing for you.reasons: 1. performance of the fund is more important. the differences is very minimal. although i hate that pb charges 3% entry cost. just hope that pb is gonna recoup this charges over the years. let's not forget their yearly maintenance fees is lower than hwangs. and hwangs have a huge disclaimer that they reserve right to change their fees structure. imagine they impose exit cost later, you would be paying exit fees and future values. and those who invest in prs is definitely going for long term. 2. there's cumulative benefits with pb. hopefully this constitute as part of their calculation towards qualifying for gold status. free insurances, free will writing, lower cost for fund management/switchingand btw yes, this prs biggest attraction is for the tax relief. 26% for the highest income bracket. even if the fund does not give positive return, we would have gotten the gain upfront equivalent to our tax relief lor. Xuzen Added on December 10, 2012, 4:21 pm QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Dec 10 2012, 12:50 PM) If the fund doesnt give you a positive return, you will be facing big losses overall la. That income tax relief is only worth max RM780 per year for the highest tax bracket. Whats so great about RM780 per year? Thats equivalent to a tax saving of RM 65 per month. How many ppl are in that tax bracket anyway? U gotta be earning more than RM8,300 per month to 'qualify'. Why so kia-si (scare to die?)So in short, if your fund loses money then dont dream about having that small tax relief cover your losses. Dont forget that the main purpose of the PRS scheme is for ppl to pump money into our country's financial system. Thats the only way to stay afloat in times of crisis. So basically, the rakyat is helping with a bailout of our financial system. Although not at critical level yet but if both Europe and US remain in recession for 2013, then the domino effect will hit Malaysia. So dont just blindly invest in any PRS fund. Learn about the fund and its potential before committing. And dont ever be satisfied with a RM65 monthly savings. It is only after all RM 3K p.a. and that is 3% exposure in total of your annual income (assuming the income is RM 100K p.a.). Furthermore, even the aggresive fund is invested in 70% equities and 30% fixed income. 70% equities = RM 2,100.00 into equities = Value at risk of 2.1% in total only. Therefore no need to be so kia-si. Try seeing the bigger picture and do not be so myopic. Xuzen This post has been edited by xuzen: Dec 10 2012, 04:21 PM |
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Dec 10 2012, 04:24 PM
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Senior Member
8,259 posts Joined: Sep 2009
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QUOTE(xuzen @ Dec 10 2012, 05:10 PM) Pub-Mut PRS is a seperate entity, it does not count towards the Gold Status. So, no free insurance & free will writing for you. It is a shame the PRS doesnt count in mutual gold status... It is similiar to UT EPF investment, they should make it the same to gain mutual gold status. Just my thought..Xuzen Added on December 10, 2012, 4:21 pm Why so kia-si (scare to die?) It is only after all RM 3K p.a. and that is 3% exposure in total of your annual income (assuming the income is RM 100K p.a.). Furthermore, even the aggresive fund is invested in 70% equities and 30% fixed income. 70% equities = RM 2,100.00 into equities = Value at risk of 2.1% in total only. Therefore no need to be so kia-si. Try seeing the bigger picture and do not be so myopic. Xuzen |
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Dec 10 2012, 05:25 PM
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Senior Member
952 posts Joined: Feb 2011
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QUOTE(Kaka23 @ Dec 10 2012, 04:24 PM) It is a shame the PRS doesnt count in mutual gold status... It is similiar to UT EPF investment, they should make it the same to gain mutual gold status. Just my thought.. its a beginning only, who knows in the future, entitle pulak. |
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Dec 10 2012, 05:31 PM
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Senior Member
4,440 posts Joined: Jan 2010 From: Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(xuzen @ Dec 10 2012, 04:10 PM) Pub-Mut PRS is a seperate entity, it does not count towards the Gold Status. So, no free insurance & free will writing for you. The bigger picture would be RM3,000 (min) per annum x say 10 years which adds up to min 30K. Imagine if losses are big and ppl just rush into that just to get a RM 780 per annum 'discount' on tax. We're not just talking about not making a profit or cutting even, but actually losing. Xuzen Added on December 10, 2012, 4:21 pm Why so kia-si (scare to die?) It is only after all RM 3K p.a. and that is 3% exposure in total of your annual income (assuming the income is RM 100K p.a.). Furthermore, even the aggresive fund is invested in 70% equities and 30% fixed income. 70% equities = RM 2,100.00 into equities = Value at risk of 2.1% in total only. Therefore no need to be so kia-si. Try seeing the bigger picture and do not be so myopic. Xuzen Im not kiasi and neither am i against investments. I have heavy investments in properties, gold and also unit trusts. All im saying is that ppl (especially those who dont have much to spare) shouldnt blindly rush into PRS schemes without considering the risks. This post has been edited by cybermaster98: Dec 10 2012, 05:32 PM |
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Dec 10 2012, 05:31 PM
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Junior Member
359 posts Joined: Dec 2012
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QUOTE(kochin @ Dec 8 2012, 09:40 PM) and btw yes, this prs biggest attraction is for the tax relief. 26% for the highest income bracket. even if the fund does not give positive return, we would have gotten the gain upfront equivalent to our tax relief lor. I think there’s enough explanations in all the previous postings on the role of tax relief in PRS, so I need not elaborate more on the taxes, coz ultimately everyone has their logical thinking behind. There’s no right/wrong. But for the high tax bracket person who does not agree with your statement above although he has the additional RM3k to spare, I think there could be 3 scenarios: 1. He is a bloodly good investor, and consistently make >26% returns on their investments every year. So PRS is an added risk for them 2. He is very risk averse. 3. He has enough exposure on equities For me, even if the year is badly hit and the PRS fund manager loses >20%, I don’t think I am that good to use the RM3k to make any profits for myself in any risk investments for that year (besides FD). And also RM3k/yr is but another diversification in portfolio to me as it will be the first UT that I am buying. Added on December 10, 2012, 5:43 pm QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Dec 10 2012, 12:50 PM) Dont forget that the main purpose of the PRS scheme is for ppl to pump money into our country's financial system. Thats the only way to stay afloat in times of crisis. So basically, the rakyat is helping with a bailout of our financial system. Although not at critical level yet but if both Europe and US remain in recession for 2013, then the domino effect will hit Malaysia. Thanks for putting things into another perspective for us. Which makes me recollect what my Public mutual fund salesperson says that they (PRS fund providers) r not very keen and it’s the government that mandate certain bank/company to setup this PRS. I am not sure why but maybe fund too small? And it could be WIN-WIN situation more for both rakyat and government? My biggest worry is that the funds are not putting their top notch fund managers to manage this PRS. Also the fund size may not be big as I think majority of the contributor will be non-bumi, higher tax bracket earners due to lesser avenue for them for bigger tax deduction. And their small RM3k contributions will be spread out in the 8 PRS providers. This post has been edited by turbopips: Dec 10 2012, 06:00 PM |
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Dec 10 2012, 08:29 PM
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Senior Member
572 posts Joined: Sep 2007
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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Dec 8 2012, 01:57 PM) U didnt get what i was trying to say. Of course i know ull get RM780 when u invest min 3K in PRS. Thats confirmed. But what i meant was, you may get Rm780 from the Gov in the form of a tax relief, but if your fund loses money then whatever small amount of tax relief you get will be easily obscured by the loss of your capital investment. You're a high income earner == High IQThe sentences below will deem suffice for you : HWANG PRS CONSERVATIVE FUND To provide Members with a Fund that preserves* capital for their retirement needs. *The Fund is not a capital guaranteed nor a capital protected fund. |
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Dec 10 2012, 11:19 PM
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Senior Member
633 posts Joined: Jan 2006
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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Dec 10 2012, 05:31 PM) The bigger picture would be RM3,000 (min) per annum x say 10 years which adds up to min 30K. Imagine if losses are big and ppl just rush into that just to get a RM 780 per annum 'discount' on tax. We're not just talking about not making a profit or cutting even, but actually losing. If you are already into unit trust why so worried about PRS. Same as unit trust except Account 1 & Account 2 policy only. In fact currently for Hwang & Public Mutual , their PRS are feeder funds to their existing Unit Trusts Funds. Don't know about CIMB or Manulife. Further more you can switch PRS funds if the one you select today is none performing.Im not kiasi and neither am i against investments. I have heavy investments in properties, gold and also unit trusts. All im saying is that ppl (especially those who dont have much to spare) shouldnt blindly rush into PRS schemes without considering the risks. |
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Dec 11 2012, 08:28 AM
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Senior Member
4,440 posts Joined: Jan 2010 From: Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(Kinitos @ Dec 10 2012, 08:29 PM) You're a high income earner == High IQ Dont the 2 statements actually contradict each other? How could they claim to 'preserve' capital for the retirement needs of investors and then say its not 'capital guaranteed'? We all know the PRS scheme is not capital guaranteed.The sentences below will deem suffice for you : HWANG PRS CONSERVATIVE FUND To provide Members with a Fund that preserves* capital for their retirement needs. *The Fund is not a capital guaranteed nor a capital protected fund. Added on December 11, 2012, 8:29 am QUOTE(penangmee @ Dec 10 2012, 11:19 PM) If you are already into unit trust why so worried about PRS. Same as unit trust except Account 1 & Account 2 policy only. In fact currently for Hwang & Public Mutual , their PRS are feeder funds to their existing Unit Trusts Funds. Don't know about CIMB or Manulife. Further more you can switch PRS funds if the one you select today is none performing. Who's worried? Im discussing the merits of the PRS.  If its worth my while, i might consider investing in it. Not just for the RM780 discount but for future growth and to diversify my investments. This post has been edited by cybermaster98: Dec 11 2012, 08:29 AM |
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Dec 11 2012, 05:00 PM
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Senior Member
548 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: Mars
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Hi all, anyone actually invested into this PRS? I'm aware of some info on this, and agree with others that one of the reasons for going into this is to reduce the taxable income, and save up to rm780 per year.
I'm considering going for the growth or conservative fund, but for eg public mutual, i can't find further details on how they are going to invest except for the percentage in equity. To those who have invested, which one did you go for? Hwang? Pb? Anyone tried investing in this via fundsupermart? Also, let's say i invest into conservative fund, and let's assume after first 2 yrs it's losing money say 5% pa, can we 'sell' the fund and just leave the proceeds in ppa/epf account getting the standard epf dividen? ii understand there is a 70/30 distribution where we can't touch the 70% until retirement, so let's say out of rm30k invested, rm21k cannot be touched but can we sell or are we locked in forever into this prs?? Any ideas? This post has been edited by poolcarpet: Dec 11 2012, 05:04 PM |
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Dec 11 2012, 07:32 PM
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Senior Member
2,545 posts Joined: Sep 2011
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If I'm not wrong, you can withdraw all the money with 8% penalty.
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Dec 11 2012, 07:46 PM
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Senior Member
8,259 posts Joined: Sep 2009
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QUOTE(lowyat101 @ Dec 11 2012, 08:32 PM) If I'm not wrong, you can withdraw all the money with 8% penalty. I think can only withdraw the account 2 portion which is 30% of total investment with 8% penalty |
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Dec 11 2012, 07:51 PM
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Senior Member
548 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: Mars
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QUOTE(lowyat101 @ Dec 11 2012, 07:32 PM) If I'm not wrong, you can withdraw all the money with 8% penalty. ok just called hwang to check my understanding. here's what i know.lets say rm3k in per year, for 10 yrs. total is rm30k in. distribution of 70/30 so rm21k can't be touched till retirement withdrawal. the other rm9k can be taken out (either partial or full) but only once a year and subject to 8% tax. and lets say i want to exit... well, its not possible to exit. can switch to conservative fund and just let it grow till retirement. so the big con of this is once you put in your money, give it a big hug and say see you in xx years' time the pro is of course the tax relief / immediate gain. based on hwang prs materials conservative fund is projected around 5% returns i think with growth fund max about 11%. think this is still better than epf returns but obviously there is a risk. anyone else actually already jumped into this prs? |
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Dec 11 2012, 07:55 PM
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Senior Member
8,259 posts Joined: Sep 2009
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QUOTE(penangmee @ Dec 11 2012, 12:19 AM) If you are already into unit trust why so worried about PRS. Same as unit trust except Account 1 & Account 2 policy only. In fact currently for Hwang & Public Mutual , their PRS are feeder funds to their existing Unit Trusts Funds. Don't know about CIMB or Manulife. Further more you can switch PRS funds if the one you select today is none performing. For Hwang, which feeder fund is it for the PRS growth fund? |
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Dec 11 2012, 08:43 PM
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Senior Member
2,980 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: Mount Chiliad
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im late joining this thread.
the discussion is getting heavier.  i will start my own PRS on january, god's willing. |
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Dec 11 2012, 09:12 PM
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Junior Member
359 posts Joined: Dec 2012
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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Dec 11 2012, 08:28 AM) If its worth my while, i might consider investing in it. Not just for the RM780 discount but for future growth and to diversify my investments. If tax relief is not yr main reason of buying PRS. I suggest its better for u to continue invest in your unit trust/gold. Why?1. U dont want yr investment to be tied down till the age of 55 years in PRS as the capital is not guaranteed. 2. Its historical performance is unknown yet unlike the normal unit trust u buy 3. U may want to wait to see the performance of the PRS fund managers against normal UT to see if there's signifcant. The money is yours... so this is just suggestion. This post has been edited by turbopips: Dec 11 2012, 09:16 PM |
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Dec 11 2012, 11:36 PM
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Senior Member
633 posts Joined: Jan 2006
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QUOTE(Kaka23 @ Dec 11 2012, 07:55 PM) For Hwang, which feeder fund is it for the PRS growth fund? For the Hwang's Growth Fund, its not specifically stated but among the permitted investments are units/shares in collective investment schemes. |
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Dec 11 2012, 11:58 PM
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All Stars
10,314 posts Joined: Dec 2009 From: Malaysia
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hwang's growth funds have increased by about 1.1% since commencement of trading from late november.
annualised already >10% p.a. |
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Dec 12 2012, 12:27 AM
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Senior Member
1,639 posts Joined: Nov 2010
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1. PRS vs. Unit trusts.
The income distributions (if any) in PRS are tax exempted. 2. PRS vs. EPF. There are statements that both allow tax deductions on contributions by employer (up to 19%, combining both PRS and EPF, of the employee's salary). But silent on whether the employer's contribution into PRS is considered non-income to the employee, unlike EPF. It is also best to keep in mind that it is possible to switch between providers as well as between funds within the same provider. There might be some switching or transfer fees, and in the case of Public Mutual zero fees within their PRS funds. So it is cheaper than the normal unit trusts if we were to switch to better funds, within or out to another provider, and don't have to pay sales charges (if any) again. Should check out the PPA.my site http://www.ppa.my/index.php/providers-and-...proved-schemes/ for more info... (I see why PM agents may not be happy, sales charge for their PRS is 3% vs 5.5% for their equity unit trusts.) |
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Dec 12 2012, 09:10 AM
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Senior Member
548 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: Mars
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I'm planning to go for hwangim growth. Any known issues or negative points?
If it's not doing well, can switch to another prs in the fiture just have to pay some $, i think rm25+25+sales charge for the other. 0% sales charge for hwangim too good to say no to  QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Dec 12 2012, 12:27 AM) 1. PRS vs. Unit trusts. The income distributions (if any) in PRS are tax exempted. 2. PRS vs. EPF. There are statements that both allow tax deductions on contributions by employer (up to 19%, combining both PRS and EPF, of the employee's salary). But silent on whether the employer's contribution into PRS is considered non-income to the employee, unlike EPF. It is also best to keep in mind that it is possible to switch between providers as well as between funds within the same provider. There might be some switching or transfer fees, and in the case of Public Mutual zero fees within their PRS funds. So it is cheaper than the normal unit trusts if we were to switch to better funds, within or out to another provider, and don't have to pay sales charges (if any) again. Should check out the PPA.my site http://www.ppa.my/index.php/providers-and-...proved-schemes/ for more info... (I see why PM agents may not be happy, sales charge for their PRS is 3% vs 5.5% for their equity unit trusts.) |
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Dec 12 2012, 01:37 PM
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Senior Member
1,639 posts Joined: Nov 2010
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QUOTE(poolcarpet @ Dec 12 2012, 09:10 AM) I'm planning to go for hwangim growth. Any known issues or negative points? Yes, no sales charge is a big plus. All these funds are new, so can't say how they will perform compare to the normal unit trust funds, but they have an advantage since their income distributions is tax exempted; especially if the income is from within Malaysia - which most of the approved funds are.If it's not doing well, can switch to another prs in the fiture just have to pay some $, i think rm25+25+sales charge for the other. 0% sales charge for hwangim too good to say no to But take note that funds which incomes from bonds are non taxable too. Aggressive funds with higher percentage in equities will have more advantage on this tax exemption on income distributions. As for the tax relief, it is a plus factor, but I would not consider it a major factor in deciding between PRS and UT, since 3k savings in a year is not a lot when you're in a higher tax bracket and paying more than 10k in income tax. The zero switching fees within same provider and possible to switch between providers is very attractive. Since this scheme is for retirement, the 'investment' could slowly increase to high figures in 10-15 years... this is when you would want to monitor the fund more closely and do some switching instead of allowing your money to slide down in a bearish downturn. No doubt all the funds will slide downwards, but the more conservative funds will slide lesser. |
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Dec 12 2012, 03:03 PM
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Junior Member
489 posts Joined: Nov 2012
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QUOTE(hafiez @ Dec 11 2012, 08:43 PM) im late joining this thread. Do it this month, you are entitled for 2012 tax reliefthe discussion is getting heavier. i will start my own PRS on january, god's willing. |
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Dec 12 2012, 03:13 PM
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Senior Member
932 posts Joined: Nov 2004
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I just bought CIMB prs moderate fund yesterday after frustrating visit to 2 public banks. One, officer on leave...
 ...., next one, says, i need to buy via agents and PB PRS is only launching next year first quarter. The current public bank PRS fund was launch by public mutual and you can't buy it via PB. Ended up, i went straight to CIMB and bought it within 30 minutes. Less hassle as compared to PB where you need to make appointment with agents lar, etc etc. To me, i hate meeting up with agents as i don't like to waste my time listening to their BS. Like some folks mention here, the 26% saving is already a bonus to the interest earned. I am not particular bother about which fund as long as it's convenient for me to buy and CIMB was the easiest at that moment. |
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Dec 12 2012, 04:00 PM
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Senior Member
3,180 posts Joined: Jun 2009 From: Borlänge
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lets say someone who is old like 60yrs old.
they earn quite alot and buy dis fund. when can they take out their money? |
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Dec 12 2012, 04:05 PM
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Senior Member
548 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: Mars
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erm... 60 yrs old means post retirement already. why buy this? if want to invest better just stick to ut or shares?
or this 60yr old still earning high and want to take advantage of the tax relief? QUOTE(endau02 @ Dec 12 2012, 04:00 PM) lets say someone who is old like 60yrs old. they earn quite alot and buy dis fund. when can they take out their money? |
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Dec 12 2012, 04:07 PM
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Senior Member
2,980 posts Joined: Jan 2007 From: Mount Chiliad
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QUOTE(Prophunter @ Dec 12 2012, 03:03 PM) Do it this month, you are entitled for 2012 tax relief I didnt take my license yet.. |
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Dec 12 2012, 04:10 PM
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Senior Member
3,180 posts Joined: Jun 2009 From: Borlänge
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QUOTE(poolcarpet @ Dec 12 2012, 04:05 PM) erm... 60 yrs old means post retirement already. why buy this? if want to invest better just stick to ut or shares? earning quite ok la.. like 5k+or this 60yr old still earning high and want to take advantage of the tax relief? |
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Dec 12 2012, 05:43 PM
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Senior Member
548 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: Mars
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5k plus means about 60kpa. take away personal relief plus kwsp already taxable income drop to 45k only. i think budget 13 announced a reduction of 1% for those below 50k taxable.
anything above 35k is taxed at 11% if i'm not wrong. assuming rm3k in this prs means a saving of rm330. but at 60+ wouldn't the epf account be completely withdrawn already? not sure how it would work since they said this is up till retirement age and we are supposed to withdraw at 55 (or 60 if they amend the laws). QUOTE(endau02 @ Dec 12 2012, 04:10 PM) earning quite ok la.. like 5k+ |
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Dec 12 2012, 09:08 PM
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Senior Member
2,545 posts Joined: Sep 2011
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Came across this: Great Retirement Plan by Great Eastern
http://www.greateasternlife.com/my/en/insu..._retirement.htm But can't really understand how the Option A and Option B works. Can someone clarify this? Thanks |
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Dec 12 2012, 09:21 PM
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All Stars
21,308 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(lowyat101 @ Dec 12 2012, 09:08 PM) Came across this: Great Retirement Plan by Great Eastern This Annuity Plan by GE... which was designed to "attack" PRS as both offers RM3k Tax Relief + able to get money after retirement age (55 or 60)http://www.greateasternlife.com/my/en/insu..._retirement.htm But can't really understand how the Option A and Option B works. Can someone clarify this? Thanks Option A - If you start at age 35 and retire at age 55 If you pay RM3000 premium for 10 years only, you get Yearly Guaranteed Income for 15 years (until age 70) of RM4,365.00 If you pay RM3000 premium for 20 years only, you get Yearly Guaranteed Income for 15 years (until age 70) of RM7,747.50 + 10-year Tax Relief of RM3000 per year. This post has been edited by ronnie: Dec 12 2012, 09:24 PM |
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Dec 12 2012, 09:21 PM
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Junior Member
432 posts Joined: Mar 2008
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QUOTE(lowyat101 @ Dec 12 2012, 10:08 PM) Came across this: Great Retirement Plan by Great Eastern option a is you start receiving Guaranteed Income from GE from 55 onwards for 15 yrs.http://www.greateasternlife.com/my/en/insu..._retirement.htm But can't really understand how the Option A and Option B works. Can someone clarify this? Thanks option b is you start receiving Guaranteed Income from GE from 60 onwards for 10 yrs. |
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Dec 12 2012, 09:34 PM
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Senior Member
2,545 posts Joined: Sep 2011
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Thanks both ronnie and minshome.
Taking the case of entry age of 35, may I know how to calculate the yearly interest for both Option A and B based on the guranteed return? |
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Dec 12 2012, 11:19 PM
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Junior Member
489 posts Joined: Nov 2012
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QUOTE(ronnie @ Dec 12 2012, 09:21 PM) This Annuity Plan by GE... which was designed to "attack" PRS as both offers RM3k Tax Relief + able to get money after retirement age (55 or 60) Not that great eh?Option A - If you start at age 35 and retire at age 55 If you pay RM3000 premium for 10 years only, you get Yearly Guaranteed Income for 15 years (until age 70) of RM4,365.00 If you pay RM3000 premium for 20 years only, you get Yearly Guaranteed Income for 15 years (until age 70) of RM7,747.50 + 10-year Tax Relief of RM3000 per year. Added on December 12, 2012, 11:24 pm QUOTE(hafiez @ Dec 12 2012, 04:07 PM) I didnt take my license yet.. what license?This post has been edited by Prophunter: Dec 12 2012, 11:24 PM |
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Dec 13 2012, 12:09 AM
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Senior Member
548 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: Mars
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Did a simple and crude calculation for Option A.... assuming entry age of 35:
Option A : Total Premiums paid RM30000, Total Returns = RM65,475 (over 15 years) Compared with simple FD rate returns of 3.15%, meaning on 1 Jan you put RM3000 into FD, then next year 1 Jan you put in another RM3000 (on top of the RM3000+interest earned for previous year) Total Amount Invested : RM30000 Total Amount Withdrawed (assuming withdraw RM4375 per year after 55 for 15 years matching Option A) : RM60,959.97 So this plan looks like just a bit better than FD rate of return, but obviously it has the extra benefit of tax relief and protection component. However, I believe one can easily get more than 3.15% returns on investment using other methods provided one has the discipline to do so (the plan above means you are locked into it, FORCED to save to put it another way).Is this considered PRS also? Sure it's claimable up to RM3000 per year for 10 years? QUOTE(lowyat101 @ Dec 12 2012, 09:34 PM) Thanks both ronnie and minshome. Taking the case of entry age of 35, may I know how to calculate the yearly interest for both Option A and B based on the guranteed return? |
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Dec 13 2012, 07:48 AM
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All Stars
21,308 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(poolcarpet @ Dec 13 2012, 12:09 AM) Is this considered PRS also? Sure it's claimable up to RM3000 per year for 10 years? Claimed under Annuity Plan Tax Relief (which is under same as PRS also) |
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Dec 13 2012, 08:29 AM
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Senior Member
548 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: Mars
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Ok thanks - found the info too. Sincethereturns are not that great, isn't better to go for prs fund that can potentially give better than 3.15% and also immediate lmp sum withdrawal at 55? Although prs doesn't have protection component...
QUOTE(ronnie @ Dec 13 2012, 07:48 AM) Claimed under Annuity Plan Tax Relief (which is under same as PRS also) |
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Dec 13 2012, 09:53 AM
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Senior Member
2,611 posts Joined: Apr 2012
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QUOTE(poolcarpet @ Dec 13 2012, 12:09 AM) Did a simple and crude calculation for Option A.... assuming entry age of 35: Just calculating for pasting the time.Option A : Total Premiums paid RM30000, Total Returns = RM65,475 (over 15 years) Compared with simple FD rate returns of 3.15%, meaning on 1 Jan you put RM3000 into FD, then next year 1 Jan you put in another RM3000 (on top of the RM3000+interest earned for previous year) Total Amount Invested : RM30000 Total Amount Withdrawed (assuming withdraw RM4375 per year after 55 for 15 years matching Option A) : RM60,959.97 So this plan looks like just a bit better than FD rate of return, but obviously it has the extra benefit of tax relief and protection component. However, I believe one can easily get more than 3.15% returns on investment using other methods provided one has the discipline to do so (the plan above means you are locked into it, FORCED to save to put it another way).Is this considered PRS also? Sure it's claimable up to RM3000 per year for 10 years? FD Deposit (Own PRS Management) # Age 35 # Deposit RM3k for 10 years @ 3.15% pa compounding. # Payout at age 55 for 15 years. Total possible payout using own PRS Management is = RM5578.00 yearly for 15 years. At current optimum interest rate available at 4.60% . FD Deposit (Own PRS Management) # Age 35 # Deposit RM3k for 10 years @ 4.60% pa compounding. # Payout at age 55 for 15 years. Total possible payout using own PRS Management is = RM7374.00 yearly for 15 years. |
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Dec 13 2012, 10:00 AM
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Senior Member
548 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: Mars
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mind to share the calculation? i calculated based on 3.15% and was just about 1 year short of matching option a payout. maybe i made a mistake somewhere...
QUOTE(magika @ Dec 13 2012, 09:53 AM) Just calculating for pasting the time. FD Deposit (Own PRS Management) # Age 35 # Deposit RM3k for 10 years @ 3.15% pa compounding. # Payout at age 55 for 15 years. Total possible payout using own PRS Management is = RM5578.00 yearly for 15 years. At current optimum interest rate available at 4.60% . FD Deposit (Own PRS Management) # Age 35 # Deposit RM3k for 10 years @ 4.60% pa compounding. # Payout at age 55 for 15 years. Total possible payout using own PRS Management is = RM7374.00 yearly for 15 years. |
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Dec 13 2012, 10:11 AM
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Senior Member
2,611 posts Joined: Apr 2012
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QUOTE(poolcarpet @ Dec 13 2012, 10:00 AM) mind to share the calculation? i calculated based on 3.15% and was just about 1 year short of matching option a payout. maybe i made a mistake somewhere... At the end of 10 years deposit, the ending amount will be RM35,721.02.At the end of 20 years deposit, the ending amount will be RM48,709.77. From 21 years onwards to 36 years there will still be compounding interest aka deduct yearly payout. * Pls check my calculation, as I did extensive year by year CAGR using Excel worksheet.. |
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Dec 13 2012, 10:28 AM
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Junior Member
432 posts Joined: Mar 2008
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QUOTE(magika @ Dec 13 2012, 11:11 AM) At the end of 10 years deposit, the ending amount will be RM35,721.02. Did u attach the excel?At the end of 20 years deposit, the ending amount will be RM48,709.77. From 21 years onwards to 36 years there will still be compounding interest aka deduct yearly payout. * Pls check my calculation, as I did extensive year by year CAGR using Excel worksheet.. |
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Dec 13 2012, 10:43 AM
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Senior Member
2,611 posts Joined: Apr 2012
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QUOTE(minshome @ Dec 13 2012, 10:28 AM) Did u attach the excel? Made a mistake from 21 year onwards.At 3.15% payout will be at RM3974 pa for 15 years At 4.60% payout will be at RM5253 pa for 15 years.. apologies *edited* another mistake This post has been edited by magika: Dec 13 2012, 10:49 AM |
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Dec 13 2012, 10:53 AM
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Senior Member
548 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: Mars
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ok that's about right... my calculation shows RM4063 payout per year for 15 years.
so anything above 3.5% or so, better just do own method instead of annuity QUOTE(magika @ Dec 13 2012, 10:43 AM) Made a mistake from 21 year onwards. At 3.15% payout will be at RM3974 pa for 15 years At 4.60% payout will be at RM5253 pa for 15 years.. apologies *edited* another mistake |
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Dec 13 2012, 11:07 AM
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Senior Member
2,611 posts Joined: Apr 2012
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QUOTE(poolcarpet @ Dec 13 2012, 10:53 AM) ok that's about right... my calculation shows RM4063 payout per year for 15 years. Can I know what you got for end of 20 years, mine shows RM48,709.77 ?so anything above 3.5% or so, better just do own method instead of annuity |
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Dec 13 2012, 11:21 AM
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Senior Member
2,545 posts Joined: Sep 2011
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QUOTE(magika @ Dec 13 2012, 10:43 AM) Made a mistake from 21 year onwards. Great discussion here. At 3.15% payout will be at RM3974 pa for 15 years At 4.60% payout will be at RM5253 pa for 15 years.. apologies *edited* another mistake But may I know how to ge the 4.6% for FD? Thanks |
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Dec 13 2012, 11:34 AM
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Senior Member
2,611 posts Joined: Apr 2012
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QUOTE(lowyat101 @ Dec 13 2012, 11:21 AM) Great discussion here. Bank Rakyat offers 4.60% for more than 60 months deposit and still negotiable. Interest can be paid monthly.But may I know how to ge the 4.6% for FD? Thanks MBSB offers 4.7x% if not mistaken. For more info http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2451962/+1420 My actual posting on calculation is meant to just to reconfirm my formula in Excel which is done manually. I do appreciate the feedback and has redone my calculations accordingly. Just for info I did the formula below 20 mins therefore a few errors has occured which is good for my learning process. Primarily one should know how to calculate as all sorts of schemes, PRS, Income Builder, Assurance & whatsnot are in the market and are powerfully promoted by Banks. This post has been edited by magika: Dec 13 2012, 11:35 AM |
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Dec 13 2012, 11:48 AM
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Junior Member
67 posts Joined: Jan 2006
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QUOTE(penangmee @ Dec 11 2012, 11:36 PM) For the Hwang's Growth Fund, its not specifically stated but among the permitted investments are units/shares in collective investment schemes. Hwang's fund actually feeding into their existing fund which already have track record.Growth fund feed into: 35% Hwang Select Opportunity Fund 35% Hwang Asia Quantum 30% Hwang Select Bond Fund Moderate Fund 40% Hwang Select Dividend Fund 30% Hwang Select Balanced Fund 30% Hwang Select Bond Fund Conservative Fund 40% Hwang AIIMAN Income Plus Fund 20% Hwang AIIMAN Cash Fund 20% Hwang AIIMAN Growth Fund 20% Direct Bond Investment Added on December 13, 2012, 11:58 am QUOTE(poolcarpet @ Dec 12 2012, 09:10 AM) I'm planning to go for hwangim growth. Any known issues or negative points? If it's not doing well, can switch to another prs in the fiture just have to pay some $, i think rm25+25+sales charge for the other. 0% sales charge for hwangim too good to say no to QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Dec 12 2012, 01:37 PM) This is when you would want to monitor the fund more closely and do some switching instead of allowing your money to slide down in a bearish downturn. No doubt all the funds will slide downwards, but the more conservative funds will slide lesser. My company, Standard Financial Planner(SFP) is a Licensed Corporate Private Retirement Advisory Firm by Securities Commission and Federation of Investment Managers Malaysia (FIMM). SFP is able to represent your interest and minimize your hazzle to deal with multiple providers as we are authorised to market multiple PRS scheme. Currently we have Hwang, Manulife and CIMB. Added on December 13, 2012, 12:00 pm QUOTE(endau02 @ Dec 12 2012, 04:00 PM) lets say someone who is old like 60yrs old. currently this is actually a loophole, they can withdraw anytime and enjoy the tax relief as long as they are still paying tax.they earn quite alot and buy dis fund. when can they take out their money? This post has been edited by bkwu: Dec 13 2012, 12:00 PM |
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Dec 13 2012, 12:28 PM
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Senior Member
548 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: Mars
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Mine shows the same too
great minds think alike? QUOTE(magika @ Dec 13 2012, 11:07 AM) Can I know what you got for end of 20 years, mine shows RM48,709.77 ? Added on December 13, 2012, 12:34 pmSo assuming 4.60%, using own method of 'annuity' investment, deposit RM3k per year for 10 years then let it continue to grow till 55 and then withdraw yearly for 15 years.... Total amount invested: RM30000 'Payout' per month: RM5694.70 Total payout : RM85420.50 Not too bad. But own method does not have tax relief, no protection component, plus it will take a lot of discipline to save the RM3k (without threat of penalty or policy lapse) and also even more discipline to take out only RM5694.70 at 56 years old when you are staring at RM50k one lump sum I think PRS is still better than annuity, since potential returns can be higher if it can be around 8-9% it will be fantastic returns for the RM30k invested upon retirement, easily quadruple.... QUOTE(magika @ Dec 13 2012, 11:34 AM) Bank Rakyat offers 4.60% for more than 60 months deposit and still negotiable. Interest can be paid monthly. This post has been edited by poolcarpet: Dec 13 2012, 12:34 PMMBSB offers 4.7x% if not mistaken. For more info http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2451962/+1420 My actual posting on calculation is meant to just to reconfirm my formula in Excel which is done manually. I do appreciate the feedback and has redone my calculations accordingly. Just for info I did the formula below 20 mins therefore a few errors has occured which is good for my learning process. Primarily one should know how to calculate as all sorts of schemes, PRS, Income Builder, Assurance & whatsnot are in the market and are powerfully promoted by Banks. |
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Dec 13 2012, 03:54 PM
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Senior Member
2,611 posts Joined: Apr 2012
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QUOTE(poolcarpet @ Dec 13 2012, 12:28 PM) Added on December 13, 2012, 12:34 pmSo assuming 4.60%, using own method of 'annuity' investment, deposit RM3k per year for 10 years then let it continue to grow till 55 and then withdraw yearly for 15 years.... Total amount invested: RM30000 'Payout' per month: RM5694.70 Total payout : RM85420.50 Not too bad. Mine From 21 year payout is at begining of the year while yours is at end of the year.. 21 year onwards payout from year start = RM5,444.30 pa 21 year onwards payout from year end = RM5694.70 pa This post has been edited by magika: Dec 13 2012, 04:05 PM |
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Dec 13 2012, 04:07 PM
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Senior Member
548 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: Mars
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yeah small minor details there, not really important in my opinion
if DIY, i honestly don't think anyone will be disciplined enough to do yearly cash out, it will be lump sum withdrawal! QUOTE(magika @ Dec 13 2012, 03:54 PM) Oh now I see why our calculation is different ! This post has been edited by poolcarpet: Dec 13 2012, 04:07 PMMine From 21 year payout is at begining of the year while yours is at end of the year.. 21 year onwards payout from year start = RM5,444.30 pa 21 year onwards payout from year end = RM5694.70 pa |
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Dec 13 2012, 04:20 PM
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Senior Member
2,611 posts Joined: Apr 2012
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QUOTE(poolcarpet @ Dec 13 2012, 04:07 PM) yeah small minor details there, not really important in my opinion That depends on particular individual and does not apply to all. For instance I have not made a single withdrawal for anything on my EPF even if DIY, i honestly don't think anyone will be disciplined enough to do yearly cash out, it will be lump sum withdrawal! though is eligible for certain withdrawal. Other than PRS, in which the returns have not been proven (though the least they can do is guarantee capital preservation), additional contributions to EPF will be the alternative to PRS. EPF have been proven thru past records of being capable of paying out reasonable dividends. However DIY PRS will still be better as no definite lock in period. For those enthusing on greater returns, then DIY in Unit Trust will give better flexibility. It comes to the question of what is PRS, is it modified version of Income Builder plus Unit Trust ? Ha..ha.. |
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Dec 13 2012, 04:34 PM
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Senior Member
548 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: Mars
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Based on my understanding, PRS does NOT offer guaranteed capital preservation.... the risk is no different from unit trusts...
EPF is paying out about 5% dividend, don't think that's too fantastic actually... PRS is one way of locking down your money until retirement  haha, but honestly, I think if not for the tax relief, there is no point going for this PRS either QUOTE(magika @ Dec 13 2012, 04:20 PM) That depends on particular individual and does not apply to all. For instance I have not made a single withdrawal for anything on my EPF even This post has been edited by poolcarpet: Dec 13 2012, 04:35 PMthough is eligible for certain withdrawal. Other than PRS, in which the returns have not been proven (though the least they can do is guarantee capital preservation), additional contributions to EPF will be the alternative to PRS. EPF have been proven thru past records of being capable of paying out reasonable dividends. However DIY PRS will still be better as no definite lock in period. For those enthusing on greater returns, then DIY in Unit Trust will give better flexibility. It comes to the question of what is PRS, is it modified version of Income Builder plus Unit Trust ? Ha..ha.. |
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Dec 13 2012, 04:47 PM
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Junior Member
9 posts Joined: Dec 2012
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QUOTE(magika @ Dec 13 2012, 09:53 AM) Just calculating for pasting the time. How do you calculate the percentage? Where do you get 3.15 and 4.60? Sorry if I am at the wrong channel.FD Deposit (Own PRS Management) # Age 35 # Deposit RM3k for 10 years @ 3.15% pa compounding. # Payout at age 55 for 15 years. Total possible payout using own PRS Management is = RM5578.00 yearly for 15 years. At current optimum interest rate available at 4.60% . FD Deposit (Own PRS Management) # Age 35 # Deposit RM3k for 10 years @ 4.60% pa compounding. # Payout at age 55 for 15 years. Total possible payout using own PRS Management is = RM7374.00 yearly for 15 years. |
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Dec 13 2012, 05:00 PM
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Senior Member
2,611 posts Joined: Apr 2012
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QUOTE(supamachine @ Dec 13 2012, 04:47 PM) How do you calculate the percentage? Where do you get 3.15 and 4.60? Sorry if I am at the wrong channel. The initial calculation my formula was wrong as did the manual formula too fast.Fixed Deposit rates 3.15% is conservative rates for the purpose of calculation. Fixed Deposit Rates for >60 months deposit is available so can deposit for 35 years tenure if you please. The actual calculation from the above (after correcting my formuls ) is begining of 21 year upto 35 year , the payout anually is :- RM5,444.30 pa for 4.60% pa FD RM3,998.69 pa for 3.15% pa FD Note that 3.15% pa FD rates is not realistic for 21 to 35 years deposit. >4.60% pa is available at certain banks for tenure ablove 60 months. This post has been edited by magika: Dec 13 2012, 05:12 PM Attached thumbnail(s) 
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Dec 14 2012, 12:56 PM
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Senior Member
1,542 posts Joined: Jan 2005 From: Seri Kembangan
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Anyone already invested in PRS? Where could you obtain the account opening form? Could pay with credit card or must be cheque or cash?
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Dec 14 2012, 01:18 PM
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Senior Member
548 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: Mars
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If you are going for Hwang IM, just call them 1-800-222-777 and they can actually arrange for agent to meet up with you to fill in the form.
Payment is via cheque to "Hwang Investment Management Berhad" need to include RM10 for account opening fee, e.g. if investing RM3000 cheque should be for RM3010. Just need photocopy of IC front and back on single page, and fill up 2 forms when you meet the agent. Not sure about the rest but think some people mention they walk in and can open on the spot also for other PRS providers. QUOTE(netcrawler @ Dec 14 2012, 12:56 PM) Anyone already invested in PRS? Where could you obtain the account opening form? Could pay with credit card or must be cheque or cash? |
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Dec 14 2012, 02:09 PM
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All Stars
21,308 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(netcrawler @ Dec 14 2012, 12:56 PM) Anyone already invested in PRS? Where could you obtain the account opening form? Could pay with credit card or must be cheque or cash? Cash or Cheque accepted lah |
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Dec 14 2012, 03:12 PM
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Junior Member
489 posts Joined: Nov 2012
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QUOTE(ronnie @ Dec 14 2012, 02:09 PM) Cash or Cheque accepted lah Any provider that accepts CC Payment? |
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Dec 18 2012, 10:44 AM
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Senior Member
2,991 posts Joined: Jun 2007
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I cannot decide whether to invest in:
1. Hwang IM: No sales charge, but higher management fee, or 2. Public Mutual: High sales charge, but lower management fee. Which one would you choose and why? Stats according to this link: http://www.ppa.my/index.php/providers-and-...fee-comparison/ |
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Dec 18 2012, 12:54 PM
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Senior Member
548 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: Mars
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HwangIM : 0% sales charge, 1.8% annual management fee, 0.04% annual trustee fee, 0.04% PPA fee = total 1.88% pa
PM: 3% sales charge, 1.5% annual management fee, 0.06% annual trustee fee, 0.04% PPA fee = total 1.6% pa Difference pa is 0.28%, but with PM you have a disadvantage of -3% at the beginning. My reasoning: 1. If I think PM will give me better returns than HwangIM over 10 years, then I'll go for PM cause after about 11 years, PM's extra sales charge would be equalized by HwangIM's higher annual fees. 2. If you have a long way to go to retirement, e.g. >15 years, maybe can consider PM cause in the long run it is cheaper than HwangIM. Remember whatever $ you put in cannot be touched till 55 so the lower the fee the better - this is assuming the sales charge/annual management fee remains the same for the next >15 years. 3. Having said the above, you can also switch anytime to different providers subject to RM25 (HwangIM/PM) +RM25 (PPA). Personally I'll go for HwangIM for now - hopefully this can pressure PM and other providers to lower their sales charge and also hopefully HwangIM will lower their management fee in future Disclaimer: I am NOT a financial expert or consultant. These are just based on my layman understanding. QUOTE(simplesmile @ Dec 18 2012, 10:44 AM) I cannot decide whether to invest in: 1. Hwang IM: No sales charge, but higher management fee, or 2. Public Mutual: High sales charge, but lower management fee. Which one would you choose and why? Stats according to this link: http://www.ppa.my/index.php/providers-and-...fee-comparison/ |
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Dec 18 2012, 04:52 PM
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Senior Member
2,991 posts Joined: Jun 2007
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Thanks for reply. I think I'll take the PM PRS scheme. The deciding factor is the length of time I buy into the fund. I'm 34 and it's another 25 years before I reach retirement age of 60. So, having a lower management fee definitely is more advantage.
QUOTE(poolcarpet @ Dec 18 2012, 12:54 PM) HwangIM : 0% sales charge, 1.8% annual management fee, 0.04% annual trustee fee, 0.04% PPA fee = total 1.88% pa PM: 3% sales charge, 1.5% annual management fee, 0.06% annual trustee fee, 0.04% PPA fee = total 1.6% pa Difference pa is 0.28%, but with PM you have a disadvantage of -3% at the beginning. My reasoning: 1. If I think PM will give me better returns than HwangIM over 10 years, then I'll go for PM cause after about 11 years, PM's extra sales charge would be equalized by HwangIM's higher annual fees. 2. If you have a long way to go to retirement, e.g. >15 years, maybe can consider PM cause in the long run it is cheaper than HwangIM. Remember whatever $ you put in cannot be touched till 55 so the lower the fee the better - this is assuming the sales charge/annual management fee remains the same for the next >15 years. 3. Having said the above, you can also switch anytime to different providers subject to RM25 (HwangIM/PM) +RM25 (PPA). Personally I'll go for HwangIM for now - hopefully this can pressure PM and other providers to lower their sales charge and also hopefully HwangIM will lower their management fee in future Disclaimer: I am NOT a financial expert or consultant. These are just based on my layman understanding. |
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Dec 18 2012, 09:59 PM
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Senior Member
1,559 posts Joined: Apr 2007
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Just managed to go thru every posts. There are some who are concern about the performance due to small fund size or this is relatively new in the market without past track records.
I wouldn't give my opinion on whether big or small fund size easier to manage/perform as it's largely depending on the fund manager. Whether it's safe to invest with new funds, different people have different views. However, for those who are concern on the fund size and worry about the performance of new fund, you can go for HwangIM as their PRS are feeder funds to their existing Unit Trusts Funds. So far there are a total 4 out of 8 providers have launched their PRS Products, namely CIMB-Principal Asset Management, HwangIM, Manulife & Public Mutual. HwangIM & Manulife are offering 0% sales charge. More details on the sales charge and relevant fee can refer to http://www.ppa.my/index.php/providers-and-...fee-comparison/ Which is the best among the four? Well, I can't answer that. Depends whether you prefer 0 sales charge/lower management fee/feeder funds etc. Some might prefer Public Mutual due to their largest market share in UT, some might prefer Manulife due to their expertise in handling similar scheme in other countries such as Hong Kong & Indonesia, some prefer HwangIM based on the track record of the fund that they are feeding on. |
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Dec 18 2012, 10:34 PM
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Senior Member
2,991 posts Joined: Jun 2007
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By the way, why CIMB Principal have Class A and Class C? I see Class C has lower sales charge but only 0.1% higher management fee. Is it up to individual to choose between Class A and Class C?
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Dec 18 2012, 10:46 PM
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Junior Member
359 posts Joined: Dec 2012
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QUOTE(simplesmile @ Dec 18 2012, 04:52 PM) Thanks for reply. I think I'll take the PM PRS scheme. The deciding factor is the length of time I buy into the fund. I'm 34 and it's another 25 years before I reach retirement age of 60. So, having a lower management fee definitely is more advantage. The annual management fee difference is marginal. U should consider which fund u think will bring better returns. Considering all equal n management fee is yr sole concern, then u should buy hwang in the first year, then switch to another fund with lower fees, eg public mutual in year two. With this u only pay rm25 extra transfer fee but u have saved much more in entrance fees. |
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Dec 18 2012, 10:48 PM
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Senior Member
2,991 posts Joined: Jun 2007
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QUOTE(turbopips @ Dec 18 2012, 10:46 PM) The annual management fee difference is marginal. U should consider which fund u think will bring better returns. Considering all equal n management fee is yr sole concern, then u should buy hwang in the first year, then switch to another fund with lower fees, eg public mutual in year two. With this u only pay rm25 extra transfer fee but u have saved much more in entrance fees. But, if I buy Hwang IM in first year, and when I "transfer" to PM second year, besides being charged the RM25 transfer fee, wouldn't I also be charged 3% by PM for buying into their scheme? |
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Dec 18 2012, 10:56 PM
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Senior Member
1,559 posts Joined: Apr 2007
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QUOTE(simplesmile @ Dec 18 2012, 10:34 PM) By the way, why CIMB Principal have Class A and Class C? I see Class C has lower sales charge but only 0.1% higher management fee. Is it up to individual to choose between Class A and Class C? Yes, depends on whether you want lower sales charge or lower management fee. |
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Dec 18 2012, 10:56 PM
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Senior Member
548 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: Mars
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 this is exactly what i thought as well... if you transfer to PM, you have to pay RM25 to Hwang AND also RM25 to PPA. That makes it RM50. Plus the 3% by PM as new funds to them. think if getting this just because of the income tax relief, it's not much invested max is RM30k only over 10 years (and take away your tax portion, it's probably effectively lesser than RM30k). i was thinking of hwang initially but thought a bit more, and thinking in decades time frame, i'll probably go for PM now since they have a good track record with other funds. QUOTE(simplesmile @ Dec 18 2012, 10:48 PM) But, if I buy Hwang IM in first year, and when I "transfer" to PM second year, besides being charged the RM25 transfer fee, wouldn't I also be charged 3% by PM for buying into their scheme? |
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Dec 18 2012, 11:14 PM
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Junior Member
359 posts Joined: Dec 2012
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QUOTE(poolcarpet @ Dec 18 2012, 10:56 PM) this is exactly what i thought as well... if you transfer to PM, you have to pay RM25 to Hwang AND also RM25 to PPA. That makes it RM50. Plus the 3% by PM as new funds to them. think if getting this just because of the income tax relief, it's not much invested max is RM30k only over 10 years (and take away your tax portion, it's probably effectively lesser than RM30k). i was thinking of hwang initially but thought a bit more, and thinking in decades time frame, i'll probably go for PM now since they have a good track record with other funds. |
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Dec 18 2012, 11:25 PM
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Senior Member
1,559 posts Joined: Apr 2007
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QUOTE(turbopips @ Dec 18 2012, 11:14 PM) Thanks for clarifying. I would like to ask if the management fee is charge based on the amount of fresh money invested in that year or based on the total amount? Example, based on 3k for yr 10 or 30k for yr 10? Thanks. The management fee is charged on fund's Net Asset Value(NAV), which will be the total portfolio. So in year 10 will be 30k assuming no gain/loss/charges.Added on December 18, 2012, 11:39 pm QUOTE(poolcarpet @ Dec 18 2012, 10:56 PM) this is exactly what i thought as well... if you transfer to PM, you have to pay RM25 to Hwang AND also RM25 to PPA. That makes it RM50. Plus the 3% by PM as new funds to them. think if getting this just because of the income tax relief, it's not much invested max is RM30k only over 10 years (and take away your tax portion, it's probably effectively lesser than RM30k). i was thinking of hwang initially but thought a bit more, and thinking in decades time frame, i'll probably go for PM now since they have a good track record with other funds. Well, we know that past performance can only be considered as reference and it doesn't equal to future performance. A good track record with other funds doesn't mean that they are going to perform well for all the funds under their management. End of the day, it's just consumers' preference. Comparing EPF to PRS is like comparing an apple to an orange. There are 2 features of EPF that differentiate it with other investments: 1) Capital Guaranteed 2) Guaranteed minimum 2.5% dividend. PRS is complement to EPF by giving public a chance of gaining higher return for their retirement funds. It's more like unit trust which apply EPF system. This post has been edited by Fat3Twister: Dec 18 2012, 11:39 PM |
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Dec 18 2012, 11:43 PM
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Senior Member
548 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: Mars
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Yup, so for simplicity sake let's assume we only put in rm3k one time.
Up front charge is rm90 for pm, rm0 for hwang. Let's say both appreciate in same manner and assume after 10 yrs, the value is now rm6k. Total annual fee for pm is 1.6% or rm96 while for hwang it will be 1.88% or rm112.80 - difference of rm16.80. Factor in year 2-9, assuming very conservative returns of about 7% pa and i think we'll see pm's lower management fee being an advantage over hwang's zero sales charge up front. Of course all these will mean nothing if hwang can somehow return high than pm, then the zero sales and higher management fee will be a good thing. Now time to polish my crystal ball.....  QUOTE(Fat3Twister @ Dec 18 2012, 11:25 PM) The management fee is charged on fund's Net Asset Value(NAV), which will be the total portfolio. So in year 10 will be 30k assuming no gain/loss/charges. |
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Dec 19 2012, 12:15 AM
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All Stars
18,409 posts Joined: Oct 2010
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Taken fr PPA:
1. Withdrawals from PRS or from any funds under PRS may be made in part or in full after the day the member reaches retirement age, which is currently 55; 2. While pre-retirement withdrawal may be made for any reason, a tax penalty of 8% on the withdrawal amount will be deducted by the PRS Providers before the balance is credited to the member’s account. My question is: If next year they change retirement age to 60 then any withdrawal btw age 55 to 60 will be consider as pre-retirement withdrawal and incur a 8% penalty? |
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Dec 19 2012, 09:47 AM
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Senior Member
1,559 posts Joined: Apr 2007
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QUOTE(MGM @ Dec 19 2012, 12:15 AM) Taken fr PPA: This post has been edited by Fat3Twister: Dec 19 2012, 09:48 AM1. Withdrawals from PRS or from any funds under PRS may be made in part or in full after the day the member reaches retirement age, which is currently 55; 2. While pre-retirement withdrawal may be made for any reason, a tax penalty of 8% on the withdrawal amount will be deducted by the PRS Providers before the balance is credited to the member’s account. My question is: If next year they change retirement age to 60 then any withdrawal btw age 55 to 60 will be consider as pre-retirement withdrawal and incur a 8% penalty? It should be the way if they change the retirement age to 60, which we are expecting to be announced middle of 2013. However, it's still subject to the final confirmation from the authorities. |
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Dec 19 2012, 10:43 AM
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All Stars
18,409 posts Joined: Oct 2010
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QUOTE(Fat3Twister @ Dec 19 2012, 09:47 AM) It should be the way if they change the retirement age to 60, which we are expecting to be announced middle of 2013. However, it's still subject to the final confirmation from the authorities. "The Minimum Retirement Age Act 2012 stipulates that the minimum retirement age for the private sector is 60 and employers cannot force the employee to retire before reaching that age. The Act was passed by parliament on July 17 and gazetted on Aug 16 this year" This post has been edited by MGM: Dec 19 2012, 10:43 AM |
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Dec 19 2012, 10:53 AM
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Senior Member
1,559 posts Joined: Apr 2007
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Due to the event "Planning Towards Golden Years 2012" has been postponed from 28-30/12 to 1-3/3/2013, our firm, VKA Wealth Planners is going to conduct a seminar on the Private Retirement Scheme(PRS).
You will be exposed to what PRS is and we will introduce various funds from various providers available in the market. As to date, there are 4 providers who have launched their funds, namely Public Mutual, HwangIM, Manulife & CIMB-Principal Aseet Management. Details of the seminar:- Date : 23/12/2012 (Sunday) Time : 2.30pm Venue : VKA, IOI Boulevard (Subject to change if we have more than 100 participants) Speaker : Mr. Javern Lim, MD of VKA Wealth Planners Mr Javern Lim is a PRS trainer approved by SC. He has conducted many PRS Familiarisation Programme and also was the speaker for China Press's seminar on PRS on 15/12/12 and also the invited speaker for Mines's event- "Planning Towards Golden Years". Should you interested to find out more, please contact me. Thanks. |
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Dec 19 2012, 02:59 PM
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All Stars
10,314 posts Joined: Dec 2009 From: Malaysia
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have yet to get an agent from PM.
 a buddy of mine whom i have interest to buy from have not obtained his 'license' to sell PRS yet. when is the last date for submission to qualify for the tax relief? any sweet young and smoking hot female agent that can assist poor old me?  |
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Dec 19 2012, 03:15 PM
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Senior Member
4,436 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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QUOTE(kochin @ Dec 19 2012, 02:59 PM) have yet to get an agent from PM. Yoda says, "Emo is bad for investment. a buddy of mine whom i have interest to buy from have not obtained his 'license' to sell PRS yet. when is the last date for submission to qualify for the tax relief? any sweet young and smoking hot female agent that can assist poor old me? Make bad decision one will, when smoking hot female agent assist, yes?" Xuzen |
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Dec 19 2012, 03:18 PM
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Senior Member
548 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: Mars
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smoking hot female agent will
when you tell her you want to invest only RM3000...QUOTE(xuzen @ Dec 19 2012, 03:15 PM) Yoda says, "Emo is bad for investment. Make bad decision one will, when smoking hot female agent assist, yes?" Xuzen |
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Dec 19 2012, 03:30 PM
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Senior Member
1,639 posts Joined: Nov 2010
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Aside from the differences between PRS and EPF in earlier posts, the timing of 'investments' in EPF is quite irrelevant. EPF is comparable to a fixed price unit trust fund like ASB, where the price is fixed; and the dividend paid for the past year is pro-rata to the date you 'buy' in.
PRS will be similar to unit trusts with fluctuating prices. All the management and trustee fees will have been priced into the price. (Management fee should not be a major consideration except in comparing different PRS and their performances.) Dividend paid will be converted into more units; and which in turn will lower the unit price. Thus the actual rate of returns is depended on the price you have had 'invested' in and the price when you make a withdrawal. Another major difference from EPF and any other fixed price unit trust fund is how they are mandated. A fluctuating price unit trust is usually mandated to have at least some percentage in equities, with the rest in bonds, fixed deposits, etc. They cannot lock in any gains and exit completely from the equity market. A worst case scenario: the next 10 years could be a “golden decade” followed by a decade of decline in the economy and stock market... you could be buying in at the peak prices and making withdrawals for retirement when the prices is at or near the bottom. This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Dec 19 2012, 03:31 PM |
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Dec 19 2012, 03:30 PM
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All Stars
10,314 posts Joined: Dec 2009 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(poolcarpet @ Dec 19 2012, 03:18 PM) smoking hot female agent will will invest rm3k in prs, and invest other sum in other funds. when you tell her you want to invest only RM3000...Added on December 19, 2012, 3:42 pm QUOTE(xuzen @ Dec 19 2012, 03:15 PM) Yoda says, "Emo is bad for investment. yoda gives excellent advise. Make bad decision one will, when smoking hot female agent assist, yes?" Xuzen This post has been edited by kochin: Dec 19 2012, 03:42 PM |
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Dec 19 2012, 04:17 PM
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Senior Member
548 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: Mars
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So we still need to monitor the investments in PRS, right? When we think it's heading down south, then we should switch it to conservative funds to preserve the earnings instead of letting it go down.
I also read in the PM disclosure doc, if the fund type is default - then the funds will be switched when entering the next age group, e.g. http://www.publicmutual.com.my/LinkClick.a...QU%3d&tabid=496 (a) Default option: Your contribution under the default option will be automatically allocated to the core fund that corresponds to the age group as specified below: Core Fund Age Group* Public Mutual PRS Growth Fund Age below 40 Public Mutual PRS Moderate Fund Age 40 to below 50 Public Mutual PRS Conservative Fund Age 50 and above * This age group may be subject to changes as determined by the relevant authorities from time to time. Unless otherwise instructed, your contribution will be automatically switched (without charge) into the relevant core fund, before the end of the next calendar month from the day you attain the age as specified in the table above. (b) Non-default option: Under the non-default option, you can actively select one or more core funds regardless of your age. So I think we as investors need to constantly monitor the fund performance as well, not just leave it there and expect a lump sum upon retirement. QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Dec 19 2012, 03:30 PM) Aside from the differences between PRS and EPF in earlier posts, the timing of 'investments' in EPF is quite irrelevant. EPF is comparable to a fixed price unit trust fund like ASB, where the price is fixed; and the dividend paid for the past year is pro-rata to the date you 'buy' in. PRS will be similar to unit trusts with fluctuating prices. All the management and trustee fees will have been priced into the price. (Management fee should not be a major consideration except in comparing different PRS and their performances.) Dividend paid will be converted into more units; and which in turn will lower the unit price. Thus the actual rate of returns is depended on the price you have had 'invested' in and the price when you make a withdrawal. Another major difference from EPF and any other fixed price unit trust fund is how they are mandated. A fluctuating price unit trust is usually mandated to have at least some percentage in equities, with the rest in bonds, fixed deposits, etc. They cannot lock in any gains and exit completely from the equity market. A worst case scenario: the next 10 years could be a “golden decade” followed by a decade of decline in the economy and stock market... you could be buying in at the peak prices and making withdrawals for retirement when the prices is at or near the bottom. |
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Dec 20 2012, 11:57 AM
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Junior Member
359 posts Joined: Dec 2012
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QUOTE(poolcarpet @ Dec 18 2012, 10:56 PM) this is exactly what i thought as well... if you transfer to PM, you have to pay RM25 to Hwang AND also RM25 to PPA. That makes it RM50. Plus the 3% by PM as new funds to them. think if getting this just because of the income tax relief, it's not much invested max is RM30k only over 10 years (and take away your tax portion, it's probably effectively lesser than RM30k). i was thinking of hwang initially but thought a bit more, and thinking in decades time frame, i'll probably go for PM now since they have a good track record with other funds. The management fee difference (for yr 10) is only RM33k*0.3 = RM99. But u have saved RM900 over the 10 yrs.. Initially i thought the 3% is only charge 1 time only but apparently its charge every time there is fresh funds invested into the account. So i guess the most important is still the fund performance. Feel free to advise if my assumption is wrong. |
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Dec 20 2012, 12:12 PM
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Senior Member
548 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: Mars
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Yes, it's charged everytime you invest. The assumption below is correct, but not complete picture. You forgot about annual management/trustee fees, and calculation below is just for yr 10. What about for Yr 2-9? Every year, HwangIM will charge you 0.28% higher than PM and it's cumulative, not just one time.
Example, if you look at 15 yrs, the zero sales charge is wiped out by the management fee over same duration. Simple scenario: RM3000 contributed today, for 15 yrs (assume age 40 now). PM: Yr 1 sales charge - RM90 Annual management/trustee/ppa fee (1.60% of RM2910 cause RM90 reduced under sales charge) - RM46.56 Total management/trustee/ppa fee over 15 yrs - RM698.40 Hwang: Yr 1 sales charge - RM0 Annual management/trustee/ppa fee (1.88%) - RM56.40 Total management/trustee/ppa fee over 15 yrs - RM846 You can see that assuming the investments never increase much, for HwangIM we are already paying RM147.60 MORE than PM, which is more than the initial RM90 sales charge. Throw in increasing value, and let's say even longer timeframe to retirement e.g. 30 yrs old now, then the difference is even more. Of course here we are not talking about switching, but if you switch across providers you need to pay some more RM50 each time. But honestly, I think it really doesn't matter much. Choose the provider you feel most comfortable with, no one can predict the future and we won't know whether PM will outperform Hwang or the other way round. All these are just too detailed and complicated, making the choice so difficult. Whatever it is, if you take this because of the tax relief, your gains are already realized the day you submit income tax return next Mar/April QUOTE(turbopips @ Dec 20 2012, 11:57 AM) I just spoke to Hwang salesperson. Althought the annual management fee is 0.3% higher, we saved on the RM90 sales charge every year. So in 10 years, its RM900 savings in sales charge compared to PM. In year 10 assuming yr fund size increase by 10%, hence RM30k*10% = RM33k. The management fee difference (for yr 10) is only RM33k*0.3 = RM99. But u have saved RM900 over the 10 yrs.. Initially i thought the 3% is only charge 1 time only but apparently its charge every time there is fresh funds invested into the account. So i guess the most important is still the fund performance. Feel free to advise if my assumption is wrong. |
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Dec 20 2012, 12:43 PM
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All Stars
18,409 posts Joined: Oct 2010
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For PRS investors who are 55yo n above, can they put in PRS in 2012 and sell off the next year, there won't be any 8% penalty and yet they will have tax saving (from tax relief)? Sure gain?
IF that is the case, it would be more advantages to buy from providers with 0% sales charge. |
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Dec 20 2012, 01:43 PM
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Junior Member
359 posts Joined: Dec 2012
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QUOTE(poolcarpet @ Dec 20 2012, 12:12 PM) RM3000 contributed today, for 15 yrs (assume age 40 now). PM: Yr 1 sales charge - RM90 Annual management/trustee/ppa fee (1.60% of RM2910 cause RM90 reduced under sales charge) - RM46.56 Total management/trustee/ppa fee over 15 yrs - RM698.40 Hwang: Yr 1 sales charge - RM0 Annual management/trustee/ppa fee (1.88%) - RM56.40 Total management/trustee/ppa fee over 15 yrs - RM846 Yr 1 sales charge - RM90 Annual management/trustee/ppa fee (1.60% of RM2910 cause RM90 reduced under sales charge) - RM46.56 Total management/trustee/ppa fee over 15 yrs - RM698.40 Total sales charge over 15 years = RM90 *15 = RM1350 Hwang: Yr 1 sales charge - RM0 Annual management/trustee/ppa fee (1.88%) - RM56.40 Total management/trustee/ppa fee over 15 yrs - RM846 Total sales charge over 15 years = RM0 *15 = RM0 U for forgot about sales charge RM90 to be paid every year assuming u invest RM3k every yr. |
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Dec 20 2012, 01:45 PM
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All Stars
10,314 posts Joined: Dec 2009 From: Malaysia
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» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « turbopips and poolcarpet boss, assuming all else being equal, please review my spreadsheet as attached. This is based on the following assumption: 1. Yearly investment of RM3k for 10 years (align with current tax relief break as announced recently). 2. Assume no change in fees imposed by PM and Hwang (Initial cost for PM at 3%, management fees of PM - 1.6% and Hwang - 1.88%) 3. Assume same growth for both funds at 5% yearly From my spreadsheet you would be able to see the breakeven for all things being equal, Hwang holds the advantage for the first 15 years wherelse PM holds the advantage for longer term. Please also note that from Year 9 onwards, Hwang's management fees would be higher than PM's initial cost price of RM90 per annum. Again the differences is quite marginal and all boils back down to performance of the fund ultimately. Please feel free to correct if there is any flaws in my analysis. Thank you. This post has been edited by kochin: Dec 20 2012, 01:48 PM Attached thumbnail(s) 
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Dec 20 2012, 01:51 PM
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All Stars
10,314 posts Joined: Dec 2009 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(turbopips @ Dec 20 2012, 01:43 PM) PM: note: i charge the 1.6% at the end of the year AFTER the growth factor. logically the providers should only charge these after 1 year's worth of management, right? and again logically they should charge at year end rather than beginning of the year. hence my figure of RM48.89 rather than your RM46.56.Yr 1 sales charge - RM90 Annual management/trustee/ppa fee (1.60% of RM2910 cause RM90 reduced under sales charge) - RM46.56 Total management/trustee/ppa fee over 15 yrs - RM698.40 Total sales charge over 15 years = RM90 *15 = RM1350 Hwang: Yr 1 sales charge - RM0 Annual management/trustee/ppa fee (1.88%) - RM56.40 Total management/trustee/ppa fee over 15 yrs - RM846 Total sales charge over 15 years = RM0 *15 = RM0 U for forgot about sales charge RM90 to be paid every year assuming u invest RM3k every yr. |
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Dec 20 2012, 01:56 PM
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Junior Member
359 posts Joined: Dec 2012
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QUOTE(kochin @ Dec 20 2012, 01:45 PM) » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « turbopips and poolcarpet boss, assuming all else being equal, please review my spreadsheet as attached. This is based on the following assumption: 1. Yearly investment of RM3k for 10 years (align with current tax relief break as announced recently). 2. Assume no change in fees imposed by PM and Hwang (Initial cost for PM at 3%, management fees of PM - 1.6% and Hwang - 1.88%) 3. Assume same growth for both funds at 5% yearly From my spreadsheet you would be able to see the breakeven for all things being equal, Hwang holds the advantage for the first 15 years wherelse PM holds the advantage for longer term. Please also note that from Year 9 onwards, Hwang's management fees would be higher than PM's initial cost price of RM90 per annum. Again the differences is quite marginal and all boils back down to performance of the fund ultimately. Please feel free to correct if there is any flaws in my analysis. Thank you. Just curious to know, in the event the government decide to extend the tax relief up to 15 or 20 years (ie the RM3k investment continues) will PM still have a lower cost? Thanks |
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Dec 20 2012, 02:06 PM
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All Stars
10,314 posts Joined: Dec 2009 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(turbopips @ Dec 20 2012, 01:56 PM) Thanks Ko Chin for the sharing.. Very expert in Excel ah... I agree that it boild down to performance of fund ultimately. i did my spreadsheet immediately after reading your post but i did not saved the file. Just curious to know, in the event the government decide to extend the tax relief up to 15 or 20 years (ie the RM3k investment continues) will PM still have a lower cost? Thanks can redo quite easily.  and i did plunked in the figure for extended years beyond the initial 10 years. PM still come out tops in the long run. but again marginal. so it still boils down to the fund as even 0.5%-1% of the fund growth differences would ultimately be the game changer here. |
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Dec 20 2012, 02:19 PM
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Junior Member
359 posts Joined: Dec 2012
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QUOTE(kochin @ Dec 20 2012, 02:06 PM) i did my spreadsheet immediately after reading your post but i did not saved the file. Yeah.. if investment continues, i think in year 19 PM will overtake Hwang in terms of cost, assuming fund performance is equal. can redo quite easily. and i did plunked in the figure for extended years beyond the initial 10 years. PM still come out tops in the long run. but again marginal. so it still boils down to the fund as even 0.5%-1% of the fund growth differences would ultimately be the game changer here. Probably thats the time to switch fund if one hasn't reach retirement age yet. |
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Dec 20 2012, 02:28 PM
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All Stars
10,314 posts Joined: Dec 2009 From: Malaysia
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sob.... lyn does not have syt smoking hot female PRS agents.....
no one contacted me??? kekeke. |
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Dec 20 2012, 02:51 PM
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Junior Member
67 posts Joined: Jan 2006
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QUOTE(kochin @ Dec 20 2012, 01:45 PM) » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « turbopips and poolcarpet boss, assuming all else being equal, please review my spreadsheet as attached. This is based on the following assumption: 1. Yearly investment of RM3k for 10 years (align with current tax relief break as announced recently). 2. Assume no change in fees imposed by PM and Hwang (Initial cost for PM at 3%, management fees of PM - 1.6% and Hwang - 1.88%) 3. Assume same growth for both funds at 5% yearly From my spreadsheet you would be able to see the breakeven for all things being equal, Hwang holds the advantage for the first 15 years wherelse PM holds the advantage for longer term. Please also note that from Year 9 onwards, Hwang's management fees would be higher than PM's initial cost price of RM90 per annum. Again the differences is quite marginal and all boils back down to performance of the fund ultimately. Please feel free to correct if there is any flaws in my analysis. Thank you. Abang kochin, Im not hot chick but can offer you PRS for hwang, cimb & manulife if you want. This post has been edited by bkwu: Dec 20 2012, 02:53 PM Attached thumbnail(s) 
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Dec 20 2012, 03:00 PM
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Senior Member
4,436 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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Let'c compare:
Public Mutual Growth Fund vs Hwang Growth Both start at zero present value. Let's assume both the fund will give an average return of 10% per annum for 10 years (N = 10). The annual payment is RM 3,000.00. With a sales charge of 3%, the PMT for Pub-Mut will be RM 3,000/1.03 = RM 2,912.62, Hwang PMT = RM 3,000.00 So we have, N = 10, Mode = Begin since we put the money at the beginning of the period. For Pub-Mut, the annual expense ratio is 1.56%; whereas for Hwang is 1.84% Public Mutual, the real effective rate of return will be, i = (10 - 1.56)/1.0156 = 8.31% For Hwang, the real effective rate of return will be, i = (10 - 1.84)/1.0184 = 8.01% For Pub-Mut: PV = 0; PMT = 2,912.62; N = 10; i = 8.31%; Mode = Begin; Find FV = RM 46,378.45 For Hwang: PV = 0; PMT = 3,000; N = 10; i = 8.01%; Mode = Begin; Find FV = RM 46,963.11 Conclusion: Hwang wins Pub-Mut i.e., zero upfront fee wins over upfront fee. Xuzen P/S: The above calculation is based on my trustee little friend aka Monsieur Hewlett-Packard 10B-II This post has been edited by xuzen: Dec 20 2012, 03:03 PM |
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Dec 20 2012, 03:03 PM
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Senior Member
548 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: Mars
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I know about the sales charge. You can't calculate this way, because we are looking at this year by year. If you calculate this way, then similarly your total management fee goes up tremendously i.e. the total management fee for 3k x 10 is NOT only RM698.40 - you can't just take RM46.56 x 15 because in yr 2 you now have RM6k worth.. and yr 3 you have RM9k worth and so on. At the 10th year, with RM30k your management fee under Hwang would be RM564 PER YEAR, while under PM it's RM468 PER YEAR. Difference of RM96 PER YEAR. Assuming you have another 25 yrs to go to retirement, we are talking about RM1440 EXTRA for Hwang compared to PM, even after including the sales charge.
QUOTE(turbopips @ Dec 20 2012, 01:43 PM) PM: Yr 1 sales charge - RM90 Annual management/trustee/ppa fee (1.60% of RM2910 cause RM90 reduced under sales charge) - RM46.56 Total management/trustee/ppa fee over 15 yrs - RM698.40 Total sales charge over 15 years = RM90 *15 = RM1350 Hwang: Yr 1 sales charge - RM0 Annual management/trustee/ppa fee (1.88%) - RM56.40 Total management/trustee/ppa fee over 15 yrs - RM846 Total sales charge over 15 years = RM0 *15 = RM0 U for forgot about sales charge RM90 to be paid every year assuming u invest RM3k every yr. Added on December 20, 2012, 3:19 pmvery nice spreadsheet, this is my understanding as well. up front higher sales charge is a disadvantage over lower management fee IN THE LONG RUN, meaning talking about >20 yrs, because sales charge is based on the initial fund which is RM3k up to RM30k in total, but management fee is based on the value of the fund year after year. Extreme example, let's say the fund returns 9.6% pa and after 15 yrs it's quadrupled, meaning now it's worth RM120k. We still have paid a total of RM900 for PM sales charge and RM0 for Hwang. but calculate the management fee for PM and Hwang on year 15 alone.... PM : RM120k x 1.6% = RM1920 Hwang : RM120k x 1.88% = RM2256 difference of RM336 there... just for ONE year. Assume another 10 yrs to go and it remains at 120k, that would mean extra RM3360 just on management fees alone for Hwang for year 16 to 25... now go a little more crazy and assume fund is now 10x the initial RM30k upon retirement, so now the annual charges just for the final year... PM : RM300k x 1.6% = RM4800 Hwang: RM300k x 1.88% = RM5640 difference of RM840.... your FINAL YEAR management fee almost wiped out the RM900 initial sales charge.... hope my understanding is correct, please feel free to correct if wrong. and still i think we've had fantastic discussion on this, honestly think it really doesn't matter which provider we go for, because we won't know who can perform better. All these discussions are based on the unrealistic fact that both will give you same returns, which i think is not possible QUOTE(kochin @ Dec 20 2012, 01:45 PM) » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « turbopips and poolcarpet boss, assuming all else being equal, please review my spreadsheet as attached. This is based on the following assumption: 1. Yearly investment of RM3k for 10 years (align with current tax relief break as announced recently). 2. Assume no change in fees imposed by PM and Hwang (Initial cost for PM at 3%, management fees of PM - 1.6% and Hwang - 1.88%) 3. Assume same growth for both funds at 5% yearly From my spreadsheet you would be able to see the breakeven for all things being equal, Hwang holds the advantage for the first 15 years wherelse PM holds the advantage for longer term. Please also note that from Year 9 onwards, Hwang's management fees would be higher than PM's initial cost price of RM90 per annum. Again the differences is quite marginal and all boils back down to performance of the fund ultimately. Please feel free to correct if there is any flaws in my analysis. Thank you. Added on December 20, 2012, 3:22 pmi think if we are talking about just 10 yrs, then yes it is very possible zero upfront will beat upfront fee. however, i believe most of us discussing this is more than 10 yrs away from retirement, possibly 20 or 25 or even more for some of us. so if you do this little magic below with n=20, what would the results be? QUOTE(xuzen @ Dec 20 2012, 03:00 PM) Let'c compare: This post has been edited by poolcarpet: Dec 20 2012, 03:22 PMPublic Mutual Growth Fund vs Hwang Growth Both start at zero present value. Let's assume both the fund will give an average return of 10% per annum for 10 years (N = 10). The annual payment is RM 3,000.00. With a sales charge of 3%, the PMT for Pub-Mut will be RM 3,000/1.03 = RM 2,912.62, Hwang PMT = RM 3,000.00 So we have, N = 10, Mode = Begin since we put the money at the beginning of the period. For Pub-Mut, the annual expense ratio is 1.56%; whereas for Hwang is 1.84% Public Mutual, the real effective rate of return will be, i = (10 - 1.56)/1.0156 = 8.31% For Hwang, the real effective rate of return will be, i = (10 - 1.84)/1.0184 = 8.01% For Pub-Mut: PV = 0; PMT = 2,912.62; N = 10; i = 8.31%; Mode = Begin; Find FV = RM 46,378.45 For Hwang: PV = 0; PMT = 3,000; N = 10; i = 8.01%; Mode = Begin; Find FV = RM 46,963.11 Conclusion: Hwang wins Pub-Mut i.e., zero upfront fee wins over upfront fee. Xuzen P/S: The above calculation is based on my trustee little friend aka Monsieur Hewlett-Packard 10B-II |
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Dec 20 2012, 03:44 PM
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All Stars
10,314 posts Joined: Dec 2009 From: Malaysia
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let's just all agree on the following, shall we?
1. if all things being equal, hwang beats PM in the short term while PM wins in the long term 2. everything else doesn't matter as spreadsheet have proven that the differences is MARGINAL and ultimately it is the fund performances that matter. good discussion you all. met some new friends here. cheers! Added on December 20, 2012, 3:47 pm QUOTE(bkwu @ Dec 20 2012, 02:51 PM) I just did a comparison based on the sales charge & annual management fees, assuming contribution of RM3000 per annum, annual return = 8% for all providers. 1stly, you are not a sytAbang kochin, Im not hot chick but can offer you PRS for hwang, cimb & manulife if you want. 2ndly, you do not offer PM which i'm keen to take so sorry abang bkwu, both product and wow factor also does not fulfill. my $$ cannot go to you. This post has been edited by kochin: Dec 20 2012, 03:47 PM |
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Dec 20 2012, 03:52 PM
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Senior Member
548 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: Mars
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QUOTE(kochin @ Dec 20 2012, 03:44 PM) let's just all agree on the following, shall we? 1. if all things being equal, hwang beats PM in the short term while PM wins in the long term 2. everything else doesn't matter as spreadsheet have proven that the differences is MARGINAL and ultimately it is the fund performances that matter. good discussion you all. met some new friends here. cheers! |
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Dec 20 2012, 04:10 PM
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Junior Member
67 posts Joined: Jan 2006
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QUOTE(kochin @ Dec 20 2012, 03:44 PM) 1stly, you are not a syt 2ndly, you do not offer PM which i'm keen to take so sorry abang bkwu, both product and wow factor also does not fulfill. my $$ cannot go to you. whats syt? haha it's ok just offering. QUOTE(poolcarpet @ Dec 20 2012, 03:03 PM) and still i think we've had fantastic discussion on this, honestly think it really doesn't matter which provider we go for, because we won't know who can perform better. All these discussions are based on the unrealistic fact that both will give you same returns, which i think is not possible Added on December 20, 2012, 3:22 pmi think if we are talking about just 10 yrs, then yes it is very possible zero upfront will beat upfront fee. however, i believe most of us discussing this is more than 10 yrs away from retirement, possibly 20 or 25 or even more for some of us. so if you do this little magic below with n=20, what would the results be? Anyway, the differences is really not much, (0.5%) even after 30 years. So, just like all taikos said it is actually depend on the performance. Currently I would vote for Hwang as well, since there feeder funds have a proven track record. |
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Dec 20 2012, 04:12 PM
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Senior Member
952 posts Joined: Feb 2011
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QUOTE(kochin @ Dec 20 2012, 03:44 PM) let's just all agree on the following, shall we? if u still love PM, maybe i can help u. but NO empty promise here.... its all DEPEND.......... HOW THE FUND PERFORM.1. if all things being equal, hwang beats PM in the short term while PM wins in the long term 2. everything else doesn't matter as spreadsheet have proven that the differences is MARGINAL and ultimately it is the fund performances that matter. good discussion you all. met some new friends here. cheers! Added on December 20, 2012, 3:47 pm 1stly, you are not a syt 2ndly, you do not offer PM which i'm keen to take so sorry abang bkwu, both product and wow factor also does not fulfill. my $$ cannot go to you. if u want the tax relief for 2012, sign up now with rm3k. or else, u can do DDI instead of lump sump rm3k. or if u need better entry for 3k lump sum, better wait for GE. suggestion only. |
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Dec 20 2012, 04:50 PM
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All Stars
10,314 posts Joined: Dec 2009 From: Malaysia
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i just thought of an idea.
why not split our investment? half to PM, half to Hwang. that way, there's no mistake on which fund would ultimately performs better. kekeke. |
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Dec 20 2012, 08:40 PM
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Senior Member
2,991 posts Joined: Jun 2007
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OK. A few days ago I posted that I was considering between PM and Hwang. And then I decided that in the long term, PM would win over Hwang. So decided to take Hwang then. After that I researched some more on CIMB and found that it has lower fees.
So in the end, yesterday I bought CIMB. The package I bought is the Asia ex-Japan. Reason why I chose this fund is because It invests in companies with significant businesses in Asia. I wanted to diversify away from Malaysia, hence this fund. But the masterfund management fee is 1.8%. So, the management fee could be slightly higher, depending on how much cash is held. I also expect this fund to have higher volatility (hence higher capital gain or loss). |
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Dec 20 2012, 10:39 PM
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Senior Member
4,436 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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I substituted N=20 and the result shows that Pub-Mut wins Hwang by about 0.5% at year 20th.
However, even after the fifth year, other parameters come into play and lower management fee will be secondary to risk adjusted performance wrt benchmark. In other words, a different set of parameters will be used to evaluate the funds. Namely: Sharpe, Treynor, Sortino, Modigliani ratio et al. Xuzen |
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Dec 21 2012, 10:53 AM
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Junior Member
17 posts Joined: Aug 2009
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QUOTE(simplesmile @ Dec 20 2012, 08:40 PM) OK. A few days ago I posted that I was considering between PM and Hwang. And then I decided that in the long term, PM would win over Hwang. So decided to take Hwang then. After that I researched some more on CIMB and found that it has lower fees. i tot the management fees that need to be paid yearly is for the PRS, should not include the masterfund? anyway, i am interested to investment in CIMB PRS Asia ex Japan as well since the masterfund seems to be doing quite well last year. And the sales charge and management fees is much lower.So in the end, yesterday I bought CIMB. The package I bought is the Asia ex-Japan. Reason why I chose this fund is because It invests in companies with significant businesses in Asia. I wanted to diversify away from Malaysia, hence this fund. But the masterfund management fee is 1.8%. So, the management fee could be slightly higher, depending on how much cash is held. I also expect this fund to have higher volatility (hence higher capital gain or loss). question: how we do qualify for Class C investor? |
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Dec 21 2012, 11:04 AM
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Senior Member
2,991 posts Joined: Jun 2007
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QUOTE(wbk @ Dec 21 2012, 10:53 AM) i tot the management fees that need to be paid yearly is for the PRS, should not include the masterfund? anyway, i am interested to investment in CIMB PRS Asia ex Japan as well since the masterfund seems to be doing quite well last year. And the sales charge and management fees is much lower. You can choose whether to invest in Class A or Class C. It's your choice. I chose Class C of course.question: how we do qualify for Class C investor? Here's an explanation about the management fee is charged. I think it's a good explanation. http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=56909384 This post has been edited by simplesmile: Dec 21 2012, 11:05 AM |
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Dec 21 2012, 11:07 AM
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All Stars
18,409 posts Joined: Oct 2010
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Called HwangIM, the Head of Branch suggested to invest in their conservative funds cos market is a bit peak"ish" and to switch when market corrected. Most Asian stockmarkets are at their tops except China.
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Dec 21 2012, 11:14 AM
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Junior Member
17 posts Joined: Aug 2009
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QUOTE(simplesmile @ Dec 21 2012, 11:04 AM) You can choose whether to invest in Class A or Class C. It's your choice. I chose Class C of course. eh.. but this article about feeder fund talks elaborate differently. It says we only pay the management fees at the feeder fund, fund manager of the feeder fund will use a portion of the fees collected to pay the management fees of the target fund. a bit confused now.Here's an explanation about the management fee is charged. I think it's a good explanation. http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=56909384 http://www.cimb-principal.com.my/upload/Sh...der%20Funds.pdf Added on December 21, 2012, 11:16 am QUOTE(MGM @ Dec 21 2012, 11:07 AM) Called HwangIM, the Head of Branch suggested to invest in their conservative funds cos market is a bit peak"ish" and to switch when market corrected. Most Asian stockmarkets are at their tops except China. Thinking about doing this as well.This post has been edited by wbk: Dec 21 2012, 11:16 AM |
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Dec 21 2012, 12:01 PM
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Senior Member
2,991 posts Joined: Jun 2007
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QUOTE(wbk @ Dec 21 2012, 11:14 AM) eh.. but this article about feeder fund talks elaborate differently. It says we only pay the management fees at the feeder fund, fund manager of the feeder fund will use a portion of the fees collected to pay the management fees of the target fund. a bit confused now. Correct.http://www.cimb-principal.com.my/upload/Sh...der%20Funds.pdf page 18 first paragraph. "..... Additionally, the management fee is to be charged at only one level in either the target fund or the feeder fund." This means the management fee could either be 1.8% or 1.5%. And since the target fund management fee is higher, we can bet that this will be the management fee charged. Example, Feeder fund holds 10% cash and invests 90% into the Target Fund. The 10% cash will be charged 1.5% management fee. While the Target Fund will charge the Feeder Fund 1.8% fee, so this means the 90% that is invested into the target fund will attract a 1.8% fee. Total fee = (10% x 1.5%) + (90% x 1.8%) = 0.15% + 1.62% = 1.77% |
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Dec 21 2012, 12:01 PM
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Senior Member
952 posts Joined: Feb 2011
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QUOTE(MGM @ Dec 21 2012, 11:07 AM) Called HwangIM, the Head of Branch suggested to invest in their conservative funds cos market is a bit peak"ish" and to switch when market corrected. Most Asian stockmarkets are at their tops except China. this is wat i try to tell in post Post #175..... wait for better time for better entry. |
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Dec 21 2012, 02:30 PM
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Junior Member
17 posts Joined: Aug 2009
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QUOTE(simplesmile @ Dec 21 2012, 12:01 PM) Correct. I am waiting for the CIMB agent to clarify before i give my money to her.page 18 first paragraph. "..... Additionally, the management fee is to be charged at only one level in either the target fund or the feeder fund." This means the management fee could either be 1.8% or 1.5%. And since the target fund management fee is higher, we can bet that this will be the management fee charged. Example, Feeder fund holds 10% cash and invests 90% into the Target Fund. The 10% cash will be charged 1.5% management fee. While the Target Fund will charge the Feeder Fund 1.8% fee, so this means the 90% that is invested into the target fund will attract a 1.8% fee. Total fee = (10% x 1.5%) + (90% x 1.8%) = 0.15% + 1.62% = 1.77% |
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Dec 21 2012, 02:41 PM
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All Stars
10,314 posts Joined: Dec 2009 From: Malaysia
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QUOTE(wbk @ Dec 21 2012, 02:30 PM) I am waiting for the CIMB agent to clarify before i give my money to her. |
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Dec 21 2012, 03:04 PM
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Junior Member
109 posts Joined: Mar 2008
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is public bank private retirement scheme good?
any lock up period? A fren approaching me to buy before 31th Dec. |
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Dec 21 2012, 03:29 PM
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Senior Member
1,639 posts Joined: Nov 2010
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The management & trustee fee is a pretty much hidden cost; since it is already incorporated into the price.
It has no bearings on the performance of the fund. Paying more does not mean better fund management; and conversely, paying a cheaper management fee does not mean that the returns will be better. It is not right to assume that there is a savings of x amount of ringgit in A since the management fee of A is lower than B. First of all, it is already incorporated into the price and you're not paying any extra amount out of the pocket if you were to invest with B. It is similar to coming to a conclusion that we will save the entire management & trustee fee if we don't invest at all. It should only comes into question when there is a really huge difference between the fees; a huge difference such that it would impact the returns significantly. I guess this would be for the the PPA to administer... |
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Dec 21 2012, 04:01 PM
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Junior Member
17 posts Joined: Aug 2009
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Confirmed. The management fees is 1.4% per annum for the CIMB PRS Asia Pac ex Japan. And the sales charge is 1.5% (promotion rate) instead of 3%. "For limited time only".
Even though the the management fee difference may be 0.3%. But if you invest alot, the amount is significant in the long run. And we can't withdraw until 60 years old... |
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Dec 22 2012, 12:35 AM
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Junior Member
67 posts Joined: Jan 2006
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QUOTE(kochin @ Dec 20 2012, 04:50 PM) i just thought of an idea. so abang kochin wanna give me the business? why not split our investment? half to PM, half to Hwang. that way, there's no mistake on which fund would ultimately performs better. kekeke. |
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Dec 22 2012, 05:59 AM
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All Stars
18,409 posts Joined: Oct 2010
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Was told that at this moment retirement age is still 55 so any funds bought can still be withdrawn after 55yo, correct?
Would like to know the answer esp from PRS agents, bkwu and Fat3Twister? This post has been edited by MGM: Dec 22 2012, 06:02 AM |
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Dec 22 2012, 06:02 AM
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Junior Member
203 posts Joined: Jul 2010 From: Shah Alam
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is this PRS is mandatory to all private employees?
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Dec 22 2012, 06:03 AM
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All Stars
18,409 posts Joined: Oct 2010
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QUOTE(mukhrizMrz @ Dec 22 2012, 06:02 AM) is this PRS is mandatory to all private employees? No, it is optional. |
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Dec 24 2012, 02:37 AM
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Junior Member
67 posts Joined: Jan 2006
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QUOTE(MGM @ Dec 22 2012, 05:59 AM) Was told that at this moment retirement age is still 55 so any funds bought can still be withdrawn after 55yo, correct? Yes correct. Currently those who are 55 and above actually can invest and withdraw anytime.Would like to know the answer esp from PRS agents, bkwu and Fat3Twister? |
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Dec 26 2012, 01:44 PM
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Junior Member
68 posts Joined: Feb 2009
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thanks to all the sifus.
I've decided to go for CIMB PRS Plus Asia Pac ex-Japan (Class C) http://www.cimb-principal.com.my/prs/fundV...f2-8ce447e0cc35 Mgmt Fee: 1.5% Sales Fee: 0.5% Reason: - CIMB is strong regionally and has know-how - CIMB most likely to tie up with employers, hence good chance of increasing fund size (they already have 8 companies...) - easy and fast: just via banks and hopefully online soon, no need to deal/meet up agents or pass cheques (old school) I considered ING as Kenanga has bought into ING Funds Berhad I also considered PM yet I'd hate to meet up with the agent every time I wanted to buy into it. |
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Dec 26 2012, 05:42 PM
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All Stars
18,409 posts Joined: Oct 2010
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This website did an analysis on Hwang PRS prospectus. It stressed on higher management fees and allowable adjustment to sales and redemption charges of up to 3% and trustee fees of 1%. Same with PRS from other providers?
http://www.howtofinancemoney.com/2012/11/p...e-analysis.html Added on December 26, 2012, 5:45 pm QUOTE(thediablo @ Dec 26 2012, 01:44 PM) thanks to all the sifus. How does CIMB qualifies an investor Class A or C?I've decided to go for CIMB PRS Plus Asia Pac ex-Japan (Class C) http://www.cimb-principal.com.my/prs/fundV...f2-8ce447e0cc35 Mgmt Fee: 1.5% Sales Fee: 0.5% This post has been edited by MGM: Dec 26 2012, 05:45 PM |
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Jan 20 2013, 10:55 AM
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Senior Member
8,259 posts Joined: Sep 2009
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What does Class A and C means?
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Apr 24 2013, 06:41 PM
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Senior Member
2,842 posts Joined: Jun 2005 From: Seasaw
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Dear guys, girls, uncle, auntie
http://www.ppa.my/index.php/providers-and-...fee-comparison/ im more towards Hwang (syariah) as of now. not only because of the fee comparison, but also due to: http://www.hwangim.com/downloads/category/...d?download=1930 http://www.hwangim.com/downloads/category/...lutions-english Since this is still new, I wonder how many of u guys subscribe to this? |
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Apr 26 2013, 08:11 AM
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Senior Member
8,259 posts Joined: Sep 2009
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Guy.. I read the terms and conditions also still blur. So ask here..
For the withdrawal that will charge 8% penalty for PRS. Will the 8% being charge if withdrawal is done after one year of investment? |
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May 1 2013, 04:58 PM
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Senior Member
3,180 posts Joined: Jun 2009 From: Borlänge
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hi, for any PRS, all oso need to commit the sum of money every year? can i lapse 1 yr?
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May 1 2013, 11:22 PM
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Junior Member
91 posts Joined: Mar 2010
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there is no annual commitment for prs, you can put in any amount or zero in the year.
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Jun 1 2013, 02:53 PM
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Junior Member
266 posts Joined: Nov 2009 From: Kuala Lumpur
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QUOTE(s@ni @ Apr 24 2013, 06:41 PM) Dear guys, girls, uncle, auntie if you have fundsupermart account, u can do it through fundsupermart, 0 fees charged by fundsupermart.http://www.ppa.my/index.php/providers-and-...fee-comparison/ im more towards Hwang (syariah) as of now. not only because of the fee comparison, but also due to: http://www.hwangim.com/downloads/category/...d?download=1930 http://www.hwangim.com/downloads/category/...lutions-english Since this is still new, I wonder how many of u guys subscribe to this? |
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Jul 18 2013, 05:13 PM
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Newbie
1 posts Joined: Jan 2013
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I'm agent from HwangIM.
So far Hwang's PRS is performing well, and going to give out dividend soon. The most attractive from Hwang PRS is with 0% sales charge. Initial Investment min: RM100 Subsequent Investment min: RM50 If you are interested to know more information, please call 088-252881. This post has been edited by fui87yen: Jul 18 2013, 05:13 PM |
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Jul 18 2013, 09:17 PM
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All Stars
11,954 posts Joined: May 2007
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why i cannot call ur number?
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Jul 18 2013, 09:19 PM
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Senior Member
8,259 posts Joined: Sep 2009
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Haha...
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Jul 18 2013, 11:29 PM
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Senior Member
4,436 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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QUOTE(fui87yen @ Jul 18 2013, 05:13 PM) I'm agent from HwangIM. You agent rite, with zero sales charge, how you earn a living ar?So far Hwang's PRS is performing well, and going to give out dividend soon. The most attractive from Hwang PRS is with 0% sales charge. Initial Investment min: RM100 Subsequent Investment min: RM50 If you are interested to know more information, please call 088-252881. Xuzen |
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Jul 30 2013, 09:22 PM
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Senior Member
2,660 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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Seriously, the only benefit I see from PRS is the 3K tax relief, nothing more. The sales charges are still high, some is the management fee.
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Jul 30 2013, 09:33 PM
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All Stars
11,954 posts Joined: May 2007
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QUOTE(xuzen @ Jul 18 2013, 11:29 PM) You agent rite, with zero sales charge, how you earn a living ar? i got basic salaryXuzen |
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Jul 30 2013, 11:36 PM
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Senior Member
5,870 posts Joined: Sep 2009
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QUOTE(guanteik @ Jul 30 2013, 09:22 PM) Seriously, the only benefit I see from PRS is the 3K tax relief, nothing more. The sales charges are still high, some is the management fee. Yeah, if only for the tax relief, we must make sure we dont lose our capital or part of it. must buy the PRS that guarantees the capital. HWang DBS that one is Unit trust right? End return can be more but also can be less than your capital.?I found one the Great Eastern PRS, not that great but at least can get back your capital, only on condition you don't die early, that's funny. Pay RM3000 per year for 10 years, after that can get back all. But if die before paying up all the 10 years, you get back less than what you have paid . |
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Jul 30 2013, 11:59 PM
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Senior Member
8,259 posts Joined: Sep 2009
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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Jul 31 2013, 12:36 AM) Yeah, if only for the tax relief, we must make sure we dont lose our capital or part of it. must buy the PRS that guarantees the capital. HWang DBS that one is Unit trust right? End return can be more but also can be less than your capital.? PRS is mutual fund, no guarantee getting back capital.I found one the Great Eastern PRS, not that great but at least can get back your capital, only on condition you don't die early, that's funny. Pay RM3000 per year for 10 years, after that can get back all. But if die before paying up all the 10 years, you get back less than what you have paid . I don't think GE is a PRS |
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Jul 31 2013, 12:04 AM
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Senior Member
16,872 posts Joined: Jun 2011
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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Jul 30 2013, 11:36 PM) Yeah, if only for the tax relief, we must make sure we dont lose our capital or part of it. must buy the PRS that guarantees the capital. HWang DBS that one is Unit trust right? End return can be more but also can be less than your capital.? ...and u call that a great "investment" I found one the Great Eastern PRS, not that great but at least can get back your capital, only on condition you don't die early, that's funny. Pay RM3000 per year for 10 years, after that can get back all. But if die before paying up all the 10 years, you get back less than what you have paid . |
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Jul 31 2013, 12:06 AM
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Senior Member
1,352 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: Tatooine
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lol
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Jul 31 2013, 12:16 AM
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Senior Member
8,259 posts Joined: Sep 2009
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Maybe GE agent..
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Jul 31 2013, 08:58 AM
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Senior Member
5,870 posts Joined: Sep 2009
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GE agent also wont promote this product la. No money to make!!! Insurance agent will promote other product with higher comission- Just go try ask and see.
That GE PRS IS entitled for RM3000 tax relief. Check it out first guys. And for those who think there is insurance protection from this GE PRS- the answer is - No protection what so ever. Pay premium RM3000, when die you expect to get back more than RM3000? None of that sort. It iis clearly in response that IT is for TAX RELIEF. If wanna do investment go buy other products. Put RM3000 there, if you are at top tax bracket, you save RM780 of tax money legally. That is 26%! End of the period collect back capital, along the way collect tax relief cukup. But if your tax bracket is low then not worth buying this....... |
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Jul 31 2013, 09:50 AM
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Junior Member
13 posts Joined: Mar 2009
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Thr r alternatives to PRS scheme which is basically a unit trust investment. HLA has Everlove annuity programme which is also tax deductible under annuity 3k p.a..
PM me if interested. thanks |
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Jul 31 2013, 12:25 PM
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Senior Member
8,259 posts Joined: Sep 2009
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1K more to go for my this year PRS... yea!
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Oct 6 2013, 07:27 AM
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Junior Member
277 posts Joined: Feb 2009 From: KUCHING
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withdrawal from prs got any charges? lets say hwang prs growth fund
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Oct 6 2013, 09:08 AM
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Senior Member
832 posts Joined: Sep 2012 From: Richmond, Oakland hills
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QUOTE(Pink Spider @ Jul 31 2013, 12:04 AM) ...and u call that a great "investment" haha |
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Oct 6 2013, 10:48 AM
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Senior Member
8,188 posts Joined: Apr 2013
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QUOTE(wenching87 @ Oct 6 2013, 07:27 AM) withdrawal from prs got any charges? lets say hwang prs growth fund read page 3, 4, 13http://www.fundsupermart.com.my/main/admin...nceMYHPRSGF.pdf |
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Oct 12 2013, 05:35 AM
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Senior Member
1,137 posts Joined: Jan 2009
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Anyone here from pm and hwang? Kindly pm me.... want to start for 2013
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Oct 12 2013, 06:15 AM
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Senior Member
8,188 posts Joined: Apr 2013
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QUOTE(ruben7389 @ Oct 12 2013, 05:35 AM) Anyone here from pm and hwang? Kindly pm me.... want to start for 2013  Hwang 0% sales charge...think they will pm you? |
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Oct 12 2013, 08:50 AM
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All Stars
11,954 posts Joined: May 2007
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A Starbucks card worth RM30 will be given out to investors who invest a minimum of RM3,000 in one PRS Fund in a single transaction from AmInvestment Management Sdn Bhd, CIMB-Principal Asset Management Berhad or Manulife Asset Management Services Berhad during the promotion period.
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Oct 12 2013, 10:00 AM
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Senior Member
4,436 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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QUOTE(yklooi @ Oct 12 2013, 06:15 AM) Hwang 0% sales charge...think they will pm you?Xuzen |
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Oct 12 2013, 10:45 AM
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Junior Member
601 posts Joined: Mar 2013
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QUOTE(yklooi @ Oct 12 2013, 06:15 AM) Hwang 0% sales charge...think they will pm you?if go to their office, is there anyone to do the prs for us? or we will be just ignored? |
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Oct 12 2013, 11:23 AM
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Senior Member
8,188 posts Joined: Apr 2013
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QUOTE(nxtpg @ Oct 12 2013, 10:45 AM) i also want to get the hwang prs too but cannot find any agent i did mine at their office. (call them first,....just in case person in charge of PRS is not in)if go to their office, is there anyone to do the prs for us? or we will be just ignored? good service and got a cup of nice coffee. or you can try this Private Retirement Scheme (PRS) Promotion http://www.fundsupermart.com.my/main/resea...?articleNo=3953 This post has been edited by yklooi: Oct 12 2013, 11:26 AM |
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Oct 13 2013, 08:38 AM
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All Stars
11,954 posts Joined: May 2007
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wat kopi they treat u?
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Oct 13 2013, 11:14 AM
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Junior Member
601 posts Joined: Mar 2013
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QUOTE(yklooi @ Oct 12 2013, 11:23 AM) i did mine at their office. (call them first,....just in case person in charge of PRS is not in) fundsupermarket looks complicated with all the forms needed to be filled. Prefer sales person do all while minum the free kopi.good service and got a cup of nice coffee. or you can try this Private Retirement Scheme (PRS) Promotion http://www.fundsupermart.com.my/main/resea...?articleNo=3953 |
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Oct 13 2013, 11:30 AM
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Senior Member
8,188 posts Joined: Apr 2013
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QUOTE(MNet @ Oct 13 2013, 08:38 AM) wat kopi they treat u? looks like 3 in 1 from the pantry but it is good |
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Oct 13 2013, 11:35 AM
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Senior Member
8,188 posts Joined: Apr 2013
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QUOTE(nxtpg @ Oct 13 2013, 11:14 AM) fundsupermarket looks complicated with all the forms needed to be filled. Prefer sales person do all while minum the free kopi. |
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Oct 13 2013, 12:01 PM
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Senior Member
4,436 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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QUOTE(yklooi @ Oct 12 2013, 11:23 AM) i did mine at their office. (call them first,....just in case person in charge of PRS is not in) With this new info, it looks like RHB-PRS is the best bang for the buck.good service and got a cup of nice coffee. or you can try this Private Retirement Scheme (PRS) Promotion http://www.fundsupermart.com.my/main/resea...?articleNo=3953 Xuzen |
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Oct 13 2013, 12:49 PM
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All Stars
11,954 posts Joined: May 2007
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QUOTE(xuzen @ Oct 13 2013, 12:01 PM) With this new info, it looks like RHB-PRS is the best bang for the buck. why rhb?Xuzen their prs fund performance good compare to hwang? |
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Oct 13 2013, 05:14 PM
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Senior Member
8,259 posts Joined: Sep 2009
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QUOTE(nxtpg @ Oct 13 2013, 12:14 PM) fundsupermarket looks complicated with all the forms needed to be filled. Prefer sales person do all while minum the free kopi. Only first time buy need forms. Subcequenly only click of few buttons |
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Oct 13 2013, 05:35 PM
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Senior Member
4,436 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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QUOTE(MNet @ Oct 13 2013, 12:49 PM) why rhb? For RHB-PRS argument:their prs fund performance good compare to hwang? i) RHB-PRS YTD ROI is 8.6%; Hwang-PRS = 7.6% ii) AMF = 1.8% for Hwang; 1.5% for RHB Argument against RHB-PRS i) RHB-PRS growth is 100% M'sia equity exposure; whereas Hwang is Asian ex-Japan exposure with around 33% M'sia equity exposure. Hence RHB less diversification and more local centric. Xuzen |
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Oct 13 2013, 05:49 PM
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Staff
25,802 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Penang
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I wonder sometimes,
if PRS scheme offer is investing in UT, or like UT, what's the difference investing UT directly?  I would rather investing UT directly as whenever need money time, still can withdraw anytime. or was investing in a poor performance fund, can exit anytime. Apart of the tax relief, I do not see much advantage of PRS. While PRS has inflexibility in withdraw issue (as far as I knew), correct me if I am wrong. This post has been edited by cherroy: Oct 13 2013, 05:55 PM |
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Oct 13 2013, 05:55 PM
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All Stars
11,954 posts Joined: May 2007
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QUOTE(xuzen @ Oct 13 2013, 05:35 PM) For RHB-PRS argument: hwang peform betteri) RHB-PRS YTD ROI is 8.6%; Hwang-PRS = 7.6% ii) AMF = 1.8% for Hwang; 1.5% for RHB Argument against RHB-PRS i) RHB-PRS growth is 100% M'sia equity exposure; whereas Hwang is Asian ex-Japan exposure with around 33% M'sia equity exposure. Hence RHB less diversification and more local centric. Xuzen http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/HWPRSSF:MK Hwang ytd = +16.36% |
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Oct 13 2013, 06:23 PM
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Senior Member
4,436 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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QUOTE(cherroy @ Oct 13 2013, 05:49 PM) I wonder sometimes, Biggest advantage of PRS = zero sales charge. Can still withdraw..... Just pay 8% penalty to LHDN only. if PRS scheme offer is investing in UT, or like UT, what's the difference investing UT directly? I would rather investing UT directly as whenever need money time, still can withdraw anytime. or was investing in a poor performance fund, can exit anytime. Apart of the tax relief, I do not see much advantage of PRS. While PRS has inflexibility in withdraw issue (as far as I knew), correct me if I am wrong. Once I attended Yap Ming Hui's seminar and he said look at your bank account and other saving vehicle.... Which one has the most money in it? He said it is KWSP isn't it? Most of the participants said yes. Yap said why is it the biggest chunk? Because you can not get it out.... Hence it is by far the biggest saving you'll ever have. He said human nature makes us very vulnerable to want to withdraw the money and spend it.... It is just human nature. Xuzen |
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Oct 13 2013, 06:35 PM
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Staff
25,802 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Penang
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QUOTE(xuzen @ Oct 13 2013, 06:23 PM) Biggest advantage of PRS = zero sales charge. Can still withdraw..... Just pay 8% penalty to LHDN only. EPF, we know principal is secured, as well as return (just matter how much, low or high), but with UT, principal is not guaranteed, it can make a good profit as well as loss one. Once I attended Yap Ming Hui's seminar and he said look at your bank account and other saving vehicle.... Which one has the most money in it? He said it is KWSP isn't it? Most of the participants said yes. Yap said why is it the biggest chunk? Because you can not get it out.... Hence it is by far the biggest saving you'll ever have. He said human nature makes us very vulnerable to want to withdraw the money and spend it.... It is just human nature. Xuzen What if, when retired time, UT register a huge loss? This post has been edited by cherroy: Oct 13 2013, 06:36 PM |
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Oct 13 2013, 09:23 PM
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Senior Member
3,968 posts Joined: Nov 2007
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i think the key word is diversify?
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Oct 14 2013, 10:13 AM
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Junior Member
601 posts Joined: Mar 2013
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QUOTE(Kaka23 @ Oct 13 2013, 05:14 PM) Only first time buy need forms. Subcequenly only click of few buttons how long will the application take?for ic, can we cross it" for prs application only" before sending to them? |
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Oct 14 2013, 01:17 PM
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Elite
5,608 posts Joined: May 2011 From: Here, There, Everywhere
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QUOTE(xuzen @ Oct 13 2013, 06:23 PM) Biggest advantage of PRS = zero sales charge. Can still withdraw..... Just pay 8% penalty to LHDN only. eh Xuzen, can withdraw early (before 55) from A/C A & A/C B meh?Once I attended Yap Ming Hui's seminar and he said look at your bank account and other saving vehicle.... Which one has the most money in it? He said it is KWSP isn't it? Most of the participants said yes. Yap said why is it the biggest chunk? Because you can not get it out.... Hence it is by far the biggest saving you'll ever have. He said human nature makes us very vulnerable to want to withdraw the money and spend it.... It is just human nature. Xuzen Thought only A/C B (which holds 30% of whatever injected into PRS)? If both also can take out with a hit of 8%.. hm.. nice.. (especially for 26% taxed). <rub hands in glee> This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Oct 14 2013, 01:24 PM |
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Oct 14 2013, 02:28 PM
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Senior Member
2,991 posts Joined: Jun 2007
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QUOTE(cherroy @ Oct 13 2013, 06:35 PM) EPF, we know principal is secured, as well as return (just matter how much, low or high), but with UT, principal is not guaranteed, it can make a good profit as well as loss one. I don't think you need to redeem 100% of the balance in the UT at the same time.What if, when retired time, UT register a huge loss? If when retire the UT register a huge loss, then : i) don't redeem any. Wait for the UT to rebound, then only redeem. Or, ii) redeem bit by bit while waiting for the UT to rebound. Hopefully the unredeemed balance will recover in value. However, if you're investment savvy then you could redeem all and invest into assets with higher and faster potential to recover. |
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Oct 14 2013, 02:38 PM
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Staff
25,802 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Penang
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QUOTE(simplesmile @ Oct 14 2013, 02:28 PM) I don't think you need to redeem 100% of the balance in the UT at the same time. i) if no rebound, wait until die? If when retire the UT register a huge loss, then : i) don't redeem any. Wait for the UT to rebound, then only redeem. Or, ii) redeem bit by bit while waiting for the UT to rebound. Hopefully the unredeemed balance will recover in value. However, if you're investment savvy then you could redeem all and invest into assets with higher and faster potential to recover. ii) What is your feel, if you have contribute 20-30 years every month into a so called "retirement fund", then ended the money worth less than what you have put in? |
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Oct 14 2013, 02:42 PM
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Senior Member
2,991 posts Joined: Jun 2007
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QUOTE(MNet @ Oct 13 2013, 05:55 PM) Amazing. Despite the 1.8% management fee, it can still beat all the other PRS funds. |
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Oct 14 2013, 02:48 PM
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Senior Member
2,991 posts Joined: Jun 2007
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QUOTE(cherroy @ Oct 14 2013, 02:38 PM) i) if no rebound, wait until die? i) given enough time, then it is likely to rebound. Unless it's Bernie Maddoff fund. ii) What is your feel, if you have contribute 20-30 years every month into a so called "retirement fund", then ended the money worth less than what you have put in? ii) Not looking to contribute 20-30 years. I'm only going to contribute for 10 years. After that, not contribute anymore because no more tax relief. Investing in UT require a very long time Horizon. 15 years or more. And between UT and ETF, I'd rather invest in ETF. It's just that Government only give tax relief for investing in PRS, and the PRS buy only UT. |
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Oct 14 2013, 03:02 PM
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Staff
25,802 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Penang
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QUOTE(simplesmile @ Oct 14 2013, 02:48 PM) i) given enough time, then it is likely to rebound. Unless it's Bernie Maddoff fund. i) Another 20 years? Many may not have this. Time doesn't guarantee a fund will rebound. Some funds may remain poor throughout.ii) Not looking to contribute 20-30 years. I'm only going to contribute for 10 years. After that, not contribute anymore because no more tax relief. Investing in UT require a very long time Horizon. 15 years or more. And between UT and ETF, I'd rather invest in ETF. It's just that Government only give tax relief for investing in PRS, and the PRS buy only UT. ii) That's why I said, if buying UT can consider as "retirement fund", then many already have it. So now I own some equities, this is also my "retirement fund"? PRS invest in UT. UT invest in equities. So invest in equities = retirement fund? |
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Oct 14 2013, 03:25 PM
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Senior Member
2,991 posts Joined: Jun 2007
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QUOTE(cherroy @ Oct 14 2013, 03:02 PM) i) Another 20 years? Many may not have this. Time doesn't guarantee a fund will rebound. Some funds may remain poor throughout. i) A fund does not need to rebound back to your original entry price for you to make a profit. When the fund falls 50%, then you buy more ... to lower your average purchase price. But do this only if you believe the underlying fundamental of the fund will recover.ii) That's why I said, if buying UT can consider as "retirement fund", then many already have it. So now I own some equities, this is also my "retirement fund"? PRS invest in UT. UT invest in equities. So invest in equities = retirement fund? ii) Very few people can consistently earn 20+ percent return. However, when a person invests in PRS, he gets a tax relief. And for people in the high tax bracket, this kind of "return" is considered high return. And the investor can get this high return for not only 1 year, but 10 years. Your analogy of whether buying equities directly is considered "retirement fund" or not, I think it depends on the reason you buy the fund in the first place. If you buy equities because you enjoy the thrill of speculation, then I consider it a "gambling or entertainment fund". If you buy equities because you want to get the dividend to replace employment income, then I consider it a "retirement fund". |
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Oct 14 2013, 03:39 PM
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Staff
25,802 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Penang
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QUOTE(simplesmile @ Oct 14 2013, 03:25 PM) i) A fund does not need to rebound back to your original entry price for you to make a profit. When the fund falls 50%, then you buy more ... to lower your average purchase price. But do this only if you believe the underlying fundamental of the fund will recover. ii) Very few people can consistently earn 20+ percent return. However, when a person invests in PRS, he gets a tax relief. And for people in the high tax bracket, this kind of "return" is considered high return. And the investor can get this high return for not only 1 year, but 10 years. Your analogy of whether buying equities directly is considered "retirement fund" or not, I think it depends on the reason you buy the fund in the first place. If you buy equities because you enjoy the thrill of speculation, then I consider it a "gambling or entertainment fund". If you buy equities because you want to get the dividend to replace employment income, then I consider it a "retirement fund". Not every fund must be making profit over the long term. Typically example, those local funds that offers China related UT. Many average down, and double average down, and now what happen? Buy more when the fund fall 50%, isn't it like "play fire" with retirement money? ii) the tax relief is not unlimited. In fact only Rm3000, even at highest tax bracket 26%, it is Rm780 only. 10 years Rm7800. Like that (if invest in equities aims to get passive income), then many do have retirement fund already, that's why I do not see much attractiveness in PRS. In fact, for me, EPF is better choice. Guaranteed principal + return (may not as high as UT but it guaranteed the capital and return) |
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Oct 14 2013, 04:23 PM
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Senior Member
2,991 posts Joined: Jun 2007
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QUOTE(cherroy @ Oct 14 2013, 03:39 PM) i) if the fund doesn't recover, it just means "double down" the loss. Oh well, I guess we have different views. No right or wrong. Just different approaches. Cheers.Not every fund must be making profit over the long term. Typically example, those local funds that offers China related UT. Many average down, and double average down, and now what happen? Buy more when the fund fall 50%, isn't it like "play fire" with retirement money? ii) the tax relief is not unlimited. In fact only Rm3000, even at highest tax bracket 26%, it is Rm780 only. 10 years Rm7800. Like that (if invest in equities aims to get passive income), then many do have retirement fund already, that's why I do not see much attractiveness in PRS. In fact, for me, EPF is better choice. Guaranteed principal + return (may not as high as UT but it guaranteed the capital and return) |
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Oct 14 2013, 04:36 PM
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Senior Member
8,259 posts Joined: Sep 2009
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QUOTE(nxtpg @ Oct 14 2013, 11:13 AM) how long will the application take? If all forms filled up correctly, it is fast. Can buy the funds within 1-2 days.for ic, can we cross it" for prs application only" before sending to them? Just cross put for fsm only for ic if I am not mistaken |
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Oct 14 2013, 05:22 PM
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Junior Member
601 posts Joined: Mar 2013
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QUOTE(Kaka23 @ Oct 14 2013, 04:36 PM) If all forms filled up correctly, it is fast. Can buy the funds within 1-2 days. thanksJust cross put for fsm only for ic if I am not mistaken later download then ask wifey fill up so much of stuff to do need review n upgrade all our insurance policies too... |
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Oct 19 2013, 10:41 AM
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Senior Member
4,436 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Oct 14 2013, 01:17 PM) eh Xuzen, can withdraw early (before 55) from A/C A & A/C B meh? Oops. sorry... yeah you are right, can only withdraw from a/c B which is 30% of your total sum invested. Thought only A/C B (which holds 30% of whatever injected into PRS)? If both also can take out with a hit of 8%.. hm.. nice.. (especially for 26% taxed). <rub hands in glee> Xuzen |
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Oct 19 2013, 11:33 AM
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Elite
5,608 posts Joined: May 2011 From: Here, There, Everywhere
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QUOTE(xuzen @ Oct 19 2013, 10:41 AM) Oops. sorry... yeah you are right, can only withdraw from a/c B which is 30% of your total sum invested. argh... thought can abuse loophole like certain EPF "loopholes". Xuzen |
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Nov 5 2013, 10:51 PM
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Senior Member
669 posts Joined: Jan 2005
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Looks like Affin is acquiring Hwang
http://www.thestar.com.my/Business/Busines...nd-assetma.aspx Would Hwang PRS funds do better under Affin? |
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Nov 6 2013, 09:15 AM
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Senior Member
4,436 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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QUOTE(gilabola @ Nov 5 2013, 10:51 PM) Looks like Affin is acquiring Hwang Gilabola, http://www.thestar.com.my/Business/Busines...nd-assetma.aspx Would Hwang PRS funds do better under Affin? When the news of this acquisition broke out three months ago, I too asked the same question? I got hold of their relationship manager and asked him that. The answer I got was this: "fund management is very much the fund manager and it's team. As long as the team is there intact, no matter who is the owner of the company, it should not change". My take is that Affin would be wise to let status quo reign since the current fund management team is doing well. Xuzen |
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Nov 18 2013, 12:53 AM
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Senior Member
1,770 posts Joined: Dec 2010 From: ~Where White Knights in Shining Armour Unite~
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I would like to ask for an opinion here, why not go for insurance companies retirement plans?
For example, GE's Great Retirement Plan? It is a guaranteed return fund and would also get the tax relief of rm3k? |
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Nov 18 2013, 09:29 AM
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Senior Member
6,356 posts Joined: Aug 2008
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QUOTE(GloryKnight @ Nov 18 2013, 12:53 AM) I would like to ask for an opinion here, why not go for insurance companies retirement plans? GE not part of PRS provider.For example, GE's Great Retirement Plan? It is a guaranteed return fund and would also get the tax relief of rm3k? Not mistaken only AIA & MANUFLIFE from Insurance. This post has been edited by felixmask: Nov 18 2013, 09:35 AM |
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Nov 18 2013, 09:33 AM
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All Stars
52,874 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(felixmask @ Nov 18 2013, 09:29 AM) GE not part of PRS provider. All PRS providers:Not mistaken only AIA & MANUFLIFE http://www.ppa.my/providers/providers-schemes/ |
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Nov 18 2013, 09:36 AM
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Senior Member
6,356 posts Joined: Aug 2008
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QUOTE(David83 @ Nov 18 2013, 09:33 AM) thanks include the link... |
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Nov 18 2013, 10:37 AM
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Senior Member
4,436 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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QUOTE(GloryKnight @ Nov 18 2013, 12:53 AM) I would like to ask for an opinion here, why not go for insurance companies retirement plans? My reasons:For example, GE's Great Retirement Plan? It is a guaranteed return fund and would also get the tax relief of rm3k? I) Suckish IRR compare to PRS II) Too many complicated charges here and there i.e., not straight-forward. III) It is an annuity plan, macam pension... every month take the same amount until mati. No fun, no syiok. Boring aje. Inflation potong stim somemore. IV) I want to see money, lots of it... many zeros. I want to go Batam, Golok & Haadyai every month after I retire. The above are my reasons. Others may have different views. |
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Nov 18 2013, 05:31 PM
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Senior Member
1,770 posts Joined: Dec 2010 From: ~Where White Knights in Shining Armour Unite~
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QUOTE(felixmask @ Nov 18 2013, 09:29 AM) GE not part of PRS provider. Yeah, that's right. Just thought that the 3k income tax relief would make GE's plan worthwhile too. But it's a 10-15 years guaranteed returned plan though?Not mistaken only AIA & MANUFLIFE from Insurance. QUOTE(xuzen @ Nov 18 2013, 10:37 AM) My reasons: Oh thanks for the your opinion! Much appreciate it. How bout going for those savings plan - for those who dont have a tendency to save money nor investing in stock market, UT, etc but just for the sake of allocating money every month. PRS would have more pros?I) Suckish IRR compare to PRS II) Too many complicated charges here and there i.e., not straight-forward. III) It is an annuity plan, macam pension... every month take the same amount until mati. No fun, no syiok. Boring aje. Inflation potong stim somemore. IV) I want to see money, lots of it... many zeros. I want to go Batam, Golok & Haadyai every month after I retire. The above are my reasons. Others may have different views. |
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Nov 18 2013, 05:34 PM
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Senior Member
6,356 posts Joined: Aug 2008
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QUOTE(GloryKnight @ Nov 18 2013, 05:31 PM) Yeah, that's right. Just thought that the 3k income tax relief would make GE's plan worthwhile too. But it's a 10-15 years guaranteed returned plan though? Xuzen hv reply....Insurance has plenty hiddent charges you may not expect from Unit Trust.This post has been edited by felixmask: Dec 10 2013, 09:09 AM |
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Nov 18 2013, 07:11 PM
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All Stars
52,874 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(felixmask @ Nov 18 2013, 05:34 PM) Xuzen hv apply....Insurance has plenty hiddent charges you may not expect from Unit Trust. Usually thsoe hidden charge has complicated formula at the background which is not direct understand to an average Joe/Jane. |
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Nov 18 2013, 07:34 PM
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Junior Member
20 posts Joined: Jul 2013
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any anuitty plan or prs are entitled for 3k tax relief.
for more information can pm me |
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Nov 18 2013, 09:21 PM
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All Stars
11,954 posts Joined: May 2007
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u better buy annuity as it come with protection which prs dont have
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Nov 18 2013, 10:11 PM
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Junior Member
359 posts Joined: Dec 2012
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Hi all,
I know we can use EPF $ to buy UT. But can we use EPF $ to buy PRS too? Thanks. |
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Nov 18 2013, 10:28 PM
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All Stars
52,874 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(turbopips @ Nov 18 2013, 10:11 PM) Hi all, I know we can use EPF $ to buy UT. But can we use EPF $ to buy PRS too? Thanks. QUOTE Can I withdraw from my EPF to contribute to the PRS? The PRS is a supplementary form of retirement savings in addition to the EPF and is voluntary in nature. Members are not permitted by law to withdraw from EPF to contribute to the PRS. http://www.ppa.my/prs/prs-faqs/ under CONTRIBUTIONS (INDIVIDUALS)>Contribution Method |
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Nov 19 2013, 12:07 PM
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Senior Member
4,436 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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QUOTE(MNet @ Nov 18 2013, 09:21 PM) u better buy annuity as it come with protection which prs dont have This is not a personal rebut to MNet, more like I need to further clarify and elaborate on MNet's generalised statement for the benefit of other readers. Protection in this context means Life coverage and in the basic rule of finance, remember this, "There is no free lunch", all comes with a cost. So when a product is built in with a life protection, a premium has already been levied on the product itself, so don't think it is free. Hence, if for someone who already bought whole-life elsewhere, why should he pay extra for something which he does not need? This brings me back to my statement on life assurance products. In order to cross sell and boost sales, many of these life company are mixing creatively to sell their goods. That is why there is a lot of hidden charges and lack of transparency in the industry. Client may be paying extra for something that he may not need. Xuzen |
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Nov 19 2013, 01:15 PM
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Elite
5,608 posts Joined: May 2011 From: Here, There, Everywhere
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QUOTE(xuzen @ Nov 19 2013, 12:07 PM) This is not a personal rebut to MNet, more like I need to further clarify and elaborate on MNet's generalised statement for the benefit of other readers. Dude - U forgot to add:Protection in this context means Life coverage and in the basic rule of finance, remember this, "There is no free lunch", all comes with a cost. So when a product is built in with a life protection, a premium has already been levied on the product itself, so don't think it is free. Hence, if for someone who already bought whole-life elsewhere, why should he pay extra for something which he does not need? This brings me back to my statement on life assurance products. In order to cross sell and boost sales, many of these life company are mixing creatively to sell their goods. That is why there is a lot of hidden charges and lack of transparency in the industry. Client may be paying extra for something that he may not need. Xuzen Annuities' expected long term returns pa VS PRS Growth / Conservative / Etc. One look and most ppl will be able to choose easily. Sports car for VROOOM power Bulldozer for earth moving power Energy efficient vehicle for cost effective daily usage Choose the right vehicle for the right reason? Just a thought |
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Nov 26 2013, 04:36 PM
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Senior Member
7,142 posts Joined: Oct 2008 From: Sin City
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AmInvest launches 5 non-core funds under private retirement scheme
AmInvest has launched five non-core funds to increase the investment options provided under its private retirement scheme (PRS) core funds. It said on Tuesday these new PRS non-core funds would offer Malaysians a full spectrum of PRS investment solutions in terms of risk and return to suit all investors’ risk appetites, investment goals and objectives These new funds comprised of four Shariah-compliant PRS non-core funds and one PRS non-core conventional fund and would complement three existing PRS core funds launched in April this year. The new five PRS non-core funds are AmPRS – Islamic Equity Fund, AmPRS – Islamic Balanced Fund, AmPRS Islamic Fixed Income Fund, AmPRS – Tactical Bond and AmPRS – Dynamic Sukuk. The minimum initial and additional contribution to AmInvest’s PRS non-core funds on a regular saving plan is RM100. http://www.thestar.com.my/Business/Busines...ent-scheme.aspx |
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Nov 26 2013, 07:24 PM
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All Stars
52,874 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(davinz18 @ Nov 26 2013, 04:36 PM) AmInvest launches 5 non-core funds under private retirement scheme These 5 funds are pretty safe funds and within moderate risk. AmInvest has launched five non-core funds to increase the investment options provided under its private retirement scheme (PRS) core funds. It said on Tuesday these new PRS non-core funds would offer Malaysians a full spectrum of PRS investment solutions in terms of risk and return to suit all investors’ risk appetites, investment goals and objectives These new funds comprised of four Shariah-compliant PRS non-core funds and one PRS non-core conventional fund and would complement three existing PRS core funds launched in April this year. The new five PRS non-core funds are AmPRS – Islamic Equity Fund, AmPRS – Islamic Balanced Fund, AmPRS Islamic Fixed Income Fund, AmPRS – Tactical Bond and AmPRS – Dynamic Sukuk. The minimum initial and additional contribution to AmInvest’s PRS non-core funds on a regular saving plan is RM100. http://www.thestar.com.my/Business/Busines...ent-scheme.aspx |
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Nov 28 2013, 06:31 PM
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Junior Member
17 posts Joined: Jun 2005
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hey wanna ask if anyone knows if the Maybank's 'Smart Retirement Xtra' is it entitled for the Rm3,000 tax exemption? Since I see their brochure mentioned "subject to the approval of the Inland Revenue Board".
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Nov 28 2013, 06:36 PM
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All Stars
52,874 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(chigusa @ Nov 28 2013, 06:31 PM) hey wanna ask if anyone knows if the Maybank's 'Smart Retirement Xtra' is it entitled for the Rm3,000 tax exemption? Since I see their brochure mentioned "subject to the approval of the Inland Revenue Board". At the moment, MBB is not one of the PRS providers. So it is not qualified for PRS category but perhaps may qualify for deferred annuity. Better clarify with the MBB officer who tried to sell you this.This post has been edited by David83: Nov 28 2013, 06:36 PM |
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Nov 28 2013, 11:10 PM
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Senior Member
4,436 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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QUOTE(UWINDRAH @ Nov 28 2013, 05:09 PM) I am a financial planner , and here I would like to introduce for the very first time a new era in car installment plan. As we all know, there is a plan called MRTA for house, where the house will be free and automaticaly fully paid off if the owner past away. It will be really great if the same thing goes to a car right?!!! The car installments will be fully waived. Here, we have introduced a new packaged plan for almost all the cars in malaysia, where with just an additional payment of RM 20.00 in the installments, the car installments will automatically waved and an estimated amount of RM 20,000 or more will be contributed to the family if the car owner passed away.It is guaranteed. In my advice, for the one who is seeking to purchase a new car, please consider signing up to this package for the best financial protection. Please kindly contact/sms me for futher enquiries. MR UWINDRAH - 017 255 2484 Mr Uwindrah, can you please me your CMSRL number, so that I may check with the relevant authority to verify that you are a bona-Fide Planner. Thanks. Xuzen |
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Nov 29 2013, 02:53 PM
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Senior Member
2,173 posts Joined: Jan 2012 From: Butterworth, Penang
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QUOTE(chigusa @ Nov 28 2013, 06:31 PM) hey wanna ask if anyone knows if the Maybank's 'Smart Retirement Xtra' is it entitled for the Rm3,000 tax exemption? Since I see their brochure mentioned "subject to the approval of the Inland Revenue Board". When it reads "subject to the approval of the Inland Revenue Board" it means IRB has the final say as they may change the rule anytime. When it was initially introduced it was Rm1K, and now it is RM3K.Having said that, when a plan is approved for income tax exemption, it is safe to put that figure into the tax computation. You may request for a letter or memo from the agent/PRS provider for validation purpose that the plan is able to be included in the tax exemption. But do calculate the possible returns of the tax savings gained vs the amount you are saving and the returns. If your tax bracket is on the highest then any amount save may bring down your tax bracket. If not, you may want to really calculate whether the amount is better saved/invested elsewhere that gives you higher returns to pay for the tax  This post has been edited by roystevenung: Nov 29 2013, 02:54 PM |
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Dec 7 2013, 10:10 PM
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Junior Member
487 posts Joined: Aug 2011
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QUOTE(xuzen @ Nov 28 2013, 11:10 PM) Mr Uwindrah, can you please me your CMSRL number, so that I may check with the relevant authority to verify that you are a bona-Fide Planner. Thanks. Hohoho, asking for CMSRL number!! Xuzen |
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Dec 7 2013, 10:15 PM
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Senior Member
4,436 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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QUOTE(lunchtime @ Dec 7 2013, 10:10 PM) Hohoho, asking for CMSRL number!! I bet the so called financial planner don't even know about CMSRL...... Xuzen |
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Dec 9 2013, 04:36 PM
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Junior Member
97 posts Joined: Dec 2013
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Dear all sifus,
I am keen to join PRS and thinking of choosing HwangDBS PRS funds for the obvious reason - 0% sales charge. My plan is to start with RM3k, before end Dec 2013 to be entitled for the tax relief for year 2013. Anyone can provide comments on Hwang AIIMAN PRS Shariah Growth Fund or Hwang PRS Growth Fund? Thanks. Best Regards, AJ |
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Dec 9 2013, 05:09 PM
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Senior Member
8,188 posts Joined: Apr 2013
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Hwang AIIMAN PRS Shariah Growth Fund as of 31 Oct 13
invested in 95% in Hwang AIIMAN Growth fund ------Malaysia focused fund. YTD return 19% Hwang PRS Growth Fund as of 31 Oct 13 invested in Hwang Select Opportunity, Hwang Select Bond, Hwang Select Asia Opportunity and Hwang Asia Quantum fund ------ Malaysia 37.9% + Asean exposed funds. YTD returns 7.58% would you try to diversify your investments instead of putting all eggs in 1 basket?. up to you to decide-lor This post has been edited by yklooi: Dec 9 2013, 05:12 PM |
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Dec 9 2013, 08:37 PM
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Elite
5,608 posts Joined: May 2011 From: Here, There, Everywhere
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http://my.news.yahoo.com/skim-persaraan-sw...-050216295.html
Ahli Parlimen Pandan, Rafizi Ramli mendakwa Pindaan Akta Cukai 1967 memangsakan rakyat apabila pengeluaran simpanan Skim Persaraan Swasta sebelum umur 55 tahun akan dikenakan cukai penuh. Beliau berkata, tindakan kerajaan itu bertentangan dengan janji Perdana Menteri Datuk Seri Najib Razak semasa melancarkan inisiatif kerajaan untuk mengalakkan pekerja swasta memohon skim tersebut.... <snipped> This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Dec 9 2013, 08:38 PM |
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Dec 9 2013, 08:45 PM
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Senior Member
2,173 posts Joined: Jan 2012 From: Butterworth, Penang
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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Dec 9 2013, 08:37 PM) http://my.news.yahoo.com/skim-persaraan-sw...-050216295.html Ahli Parlimen Pandan, Rafizi Ramli mendakwa Pindaan Akta Cukai 1967 memangsakan rakyat apabila pengeluaran simpanan Skim Persaraan Swasta sebelum umur 55 tahun akan dikenakan cukai penuh. Beliau berkata, tindakan kerajaan itu bertentangan dengan janji Perdana Menteri Datuk Seri Najib Razak semasa melancarkan inisiatif kerajaan untuk mengalakkan pekerja swasta memohon skim tersebut.... <snipped>   Basically sums up the above |
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Dec 9 2013, 09:53 PM
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Elite
15,855 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Dec 9 2013, 08:37 PM) http://my.news.yahoo.com/skim-persaraan-sw...-050216295.html wongmunkeong,Ahli Parlimen Pandan, Rafizi Ramli mendakwa Pindaan Akta Cukai 1967 memangsakan rakyat apabila pengeluaran simpanan Skim Persaraan Swasta sebelum umur 55 tahun akan dikenakan cukai penuh. Beliau berkata, tindakan kerajaan itu bertentangan dengan janji Perdana Menteri Datuk Seri Najib Razak semasa melancarkan inisiatif kerajaan untuk mengalakkan pekerja swasta memohon skim tersebut.... <snipped> And, the government can change the retirement age to 60, 65, 70, and so on in the future.. Dreamer |
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Dec 9 2013, 10:59 PM
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Senior Member
2,173 posts Joined: Jan 2012 From: Butterworth, Penang
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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Dec 9 2013, 09:53 PM) wongmunkeong, So there is only one thing to do, UBAH liao And, the government can change the retirement age to 60, 65, 70, and so on in the future.. Dreamer |
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Dec 9 2013, 11:08 PM
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Elite
15,855 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(roystevenung @ Dec 9 2013, 10:59 PM) So there is only one thing to do, UBAH liao roystevenung,Which may not help anyone of us when the government had spent all of our money before UBAH. Our government debt is the same size as EPF now. IMHO, PRS is just another way for the government to TRAP our money in Malaysia. I ASSUME that I will not get any of my EPF money back when I retire. Dreamer This post has been edited by dreamer101: Dec 9 2013, 11:09 PM |
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Dec 9 2013, 11:22 PM
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All Stars
52,874 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Dec 9 2013, 11:08 PM) roystevenung, I agreed with your statement. I never include EPF money in my portfolio or networth calculation. Which may not help anyone of us when the government had spent all of our money before UBAH. Our government debt is the same size as EPF now. IMHO, PRS is just another way for the government to TRAP our money in Malaysia. I ASSUME that I will not get any of my EPF money back when I retire. Dreamer One day, Malaysia may become like Greece. |
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Dec 9 2013, 11:30 PM
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Senior Member
8,188 posts Joined: Apr 2013
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QUOTE(David83 @ Dec 9 2013, 11:22 PM) One day, Malaysia may become like Greece. one economist blogger said this on FAQQ1. Government debt is like household debt – if we spend more than we earn, we’ll go bankrupt A. That’s the common sense view, and its one that’s commonly held. The problem is that it’s also mostly wrong. Q12. In ten years time, we’ll be like Greece A. Greece has a 2000 year history of defaulting on its external debt. Malaysia has never defaulted on its debt. A FAQ On Malaysian Government Debt http://econsmalaysia.blogspot.com/p/faq-on...nment-debt.html too bad I am noob in economics...just managed to pass the basic.... |
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Dec 9 2013, 11:42 PM
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Elite
15,855 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(yklooi @ Dec 9 2013, 11:30 PM) one economist blogger said this on FAQQ1. Government debt is like household debt – if we spend more than we earn, we’ll go bankrupt A. That’s the common sense view, and its one that’s commonly held. The problem is that it’s also mostly wrong. Q12. In ten years time, we’ll be like Greece A. Greece has a 2000 year history of defaulting on its external debt. Malaysia has never defaulted on its debt. A FAQ On Malaysian Government Debt http://econsmalaysia.blogspot.com/p/faq-on...nment-debt.html too bad I am noob in economics...just managed to pass the basic.... Stop spreading LIES... <<too bad I am noob in economics...just managed to pass the basic....>> If you are TOO LAZY to THINK, do not spread stuff that you DO NOT UNDERSTAND. Even at a SIMPLE level, if a person's debt and expenditure is GROWING faster than their income, a person is in danger of bankruptcy. Please note that the blog is using 40 years average to hide the fact that the debt is growing at 10% per year for the last 5 to 10 years. Is Malaysia's economy growing at 10% per year for the last 5 to 10 years?? Dreamer This post has been edited by dreamer101: Dec 9 2013, 11:43 PM |
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Dec 9 2013, 11:45 PM
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Senior Member
8,188 posts Joined: Apr 2013
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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Dec 9 2013, 11:42 PM) yklooi, there you go again,,..... Stop spreading LIES... <<too bad I am noob in economics...just managed to pass the basic....>> If you are TOO LAZY to THINK, do not spread stuff that you DO NOT UNDERSTAND. Even at a SIMPLE level, if a person's debt and expenditure is GROWING faster than their income, a person is in danger of bankruptcy. Please note that the blog is using 40 years average to hide the fact that the debt is growing at 10% per year for the last 5 to 10 years. Is Malaysia's economy growing at 10% per year for the last 5 to 10 years?? Dreamer |
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Dec 9 2013, 11:50 PM
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Elite
15,855 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(yklooi @ Dec 9 2013, 11:45 PM) there you go again,,..... yklooi,Do not cut and paste something if you are not willing to THINK and AUDIT the facts. It is VERY SIMPLE. If you are DUMB enough to believe this government, so be it. I don't. Dreamer |
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Dec 9 2013, 11:53 PM
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Senior Member
8,188 posts Joined: Apr 2013
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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Dec 9 2013, 11:50 PM) yklooi, now that is better...so be it.Do not cut and paste something if you are not willing to THINK and AUDIT the facts. It is VERY SIMPLE. If you are DUMB enough to believe this government, so be it. I don't. Dreamer each has its own. |
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Dec 9 2013, 11:55 PM
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Senior Member
1,110 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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QUOTE(yklooi @ Dec 9 2013, 11:53 PM) now that is better...so be it. Sry.. I also dun believe in the govt.each has its own. |
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Dec 10 2013, 01:26 AM
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Senior Member
2,173 posts Joined: Jan 2012 From: Butterworth, Penang
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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Dec 9 2013, 11:08 PM) roystevenung, That will make it more interesting to see how the 'newly elected' government manages and cope with the national debt. Innit? Which may not help anyone of us when the government had spent all of our money before UBAH. Our government debt is the same size as EPF now. IMHO, PRS is just another way for the government to TRAP our money in Malaysia. I ASSUME that I will not get any of my EPF money back when I retire. Dreamer |
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Dec 10 2013, 12:33 PM
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Senior Member
5,753 posts Joined: Feb 2013
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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Dec 9 2013, 11:08 PM) roystevenung, That is why people withdraw their money in epf to buy properties.Which may not help anyone of us when the government had spent all of our money before UBAH. Our government debt is the same size as EPF now. IMHO, PRS is just another way for the government to TRAP our money in Malaysia. I ASSUME that I will not get any of my EPF money back when I retire. Dreamer |
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Dec 10 2013, 07:50 PM
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Elite
15,855 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(robertchoo @ Dec 10 2013, 12:33 PM) That is why people withdraw their money in epf to buy properties. robertchoo,LOL!!! And, how would that help ANYONE when the economy crashes?? The money have to be out of Malaysia in order to be SAFE. In fact, since in most cases, the EPF is only used for down payment, that would tie a person down financially in Malaysia even more. Dreamer P.S.: You work for a bank. Stop giving advice to people that only BENEFIT you. This post has been edited by dreamer101: Dec 10 2013, 07:51 PM |
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Dec 10 2013, 09:49 PM
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Senior Member
5,753 posts Joined: Feb 2013
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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Dec 10 2013, 07:50 PM) robertchoo, Economy crashes may also happen else where. Whose to say the country where you choose to park yr money won't crash? If 5 years ago you put your money in greece today you will be bankrupt. At least you can stay in the house you boughtLOL!!! And, how would that help ANYONE when the economy crashes?? The money have to be out of Malaysia in order to be SAFE. In fact, since in most cases, the EPF is only used for down payment, that would tie a person down financially in Malaysia even more. Dreamer P.S.: You work for a bank. Stop giving advice to people that only BENEFIT you. |
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Dec 10 2013, 09:52 PM
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Senior Member
4,436 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Dec 9 2013, 08:37 PM) http://my.news.yahoo.com/skim-persaraan-sw...-050216295.html PPA is aware of MP Pandan's statement. I wrote to them to ask for further clarification and was told that they will make a press-statement soon. Ahli Parlimen Pandan, Rafizi Ramli mendakwa Pindaan Akta Cukai 1967 memangsakan rakyat apabila pengeluaran simpanan Skim Persaraan Swasta sebelum umur 55 tahun akan dikenakan cukai penuh. Beliau berkata, tindakan kerajaan itu bertentangan dengan janji Perdana Menteri Datuk Seri Najib Razak semasa melancarkan inisiatif kerajaan untuk mengalakkan pekerja swasta memohon skim tersebut.... <snipped> I guess they are busy doing damage control. So, let's all be gentlemen and give them a chance to answer Pandan's allegation. Do not jump the gun and speculate needlessly. Xuzen |
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Nov 6 2014, 10:49 AM
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Junior Member
18 posts Joined: Oct 2014
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After reading the comments in this thread, I see there are a few misunderstandings about PRS. Just to clarify :
- PRS does not require regular and fixed contribution by depositors; you have freedom to decide when to contribute, how much to contribute, and you are free to invest in as many types of funds as you like - If you have an EPF account you can still have a PRS fund; it's not like they have to be one or another. In fact, they complement each other because some may think that EPF savings will not be enough to fund their retirement. - Additionally, Malaysians between the age of 20-30 years old are entitled to a one off contribution incentive of RM500 by the government For more details you can refer loanstreet.com.my/learning-centre/private-retirement-scheme-explained Happy investing! This post has been edited by jan2000: Nov 6 2014, 10:50 AM |
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Nov 13 2014, 05:43 PM
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Senior Member
1,311 posts Joined: Oct 2012
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Anyone invested here and knows what is the returns for any of the PRS providers? Who gives the best returns so far?
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Nov 13 2014, 06:57 PM
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All Stars
52,874 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(familyfirst @ Nov 13 2014, 05:43 PM) Anyone invested here and knows what is the returns for any of the PRS providers? Who gives the best returns so far? A PRS fund that is doing extremely well NOW or today or this year doesn't promise that it'll still continue to shine till your withdrawal ages. What we should focus will be consistent return per annum over the years. Just my two cents. This post has been edited by David83: Nov 13 2014, 06:57 PM |
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Nov 14 2014, 03:06 PM
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Junior Member
117 posts Joined: Mar 2008 From: Malaysia
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I saw a brochure from AIA they mention we only have to open an account for RM1K then gov will add on RM500 to our account. so is it stil valid? and is it worth to open an account for PRS? How much is the handling fees and also how much interests? anyone mind to share your experience?
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Nov 14 2014, 03:23 PM
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Senior Member
8,188 posts Joined: Apr 2013
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QUOTE(Wilson Teoh @ Nov 14 2014, 03:06 PM) I saw a brochure from AIA they mention we only have to open an account for RM1K then gov will add on RM500 to our account. so is it stil valid? and is it worth to open an account for PRS? How much is the handling fees and also how much interests? anyone mind to share your experience? read this link for more info and on the T&C...http://www.ppa.my/prs/prs-youth/youth_faq/ |
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Nov 14 2014, 06:51 PM
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Senior Member
8,259 posts Joined: Sep 2009
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I still got 2k to go to invest in PRS to get maximum tax relief.
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Nov 14 2014, 07:59 PM
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All Stars
52,874 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(Kaka23 @ Nov 14 2014, 06:51 PM) I still got 2k to go to invest in PRS to get maximum tax relief. So what's your plan? |
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Nov 14 2014, 10:20 PM
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Senior Member
8,259 posts Joined: Sep 2009
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QUOTE(David83 @ Nov 14 2014, 08:59 PM) So what's your plan? Will invest 2K in month of December. You already invest Max amount that Ethan titled for tax relief? |
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Nov 14 2014, 10:52 PM
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All Stars
52,874 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(Kaka23 @ Nov 14 2014, 10:20 PM) Will invest 2K in month of December. Ethan? Which Ethan?You already invest Max amount that Ethan titled for tax relief? You meant entitled? |
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Nov 15 2014, 12:24 AM
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Junior Member
496 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Earth
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PM me if interested to invest into PRS for tax relief or RM500 government incentive.
0% sales/ upfront charge and RM50 free investment units. |
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Nov 15 2014, 10:03 AM
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Senior Member
8,259 posts Joined: Sep 2009
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QUOTE(David83 @ Nov 14 2014, 11:52 PM) Ethan? Which Ethan? Haha.. Yes entitled You meant entitled? The auto spell thing.. Didn't double check it.. |
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Nov 15 2014, 10:43 AM
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Senior Member
4,436 posts Joined: Oct 2008
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QUOTE(familyfirst @ Nov 13 2014, 05:43 PM) Anyone invested here and knows what is the returns for any of the PRS providers? Who gives the best returns so far? Come, come... open mouth wide wide...Big Spoon feeding is here!Xuzen |
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Nov 17 2014, 11:41 AM
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Junior Member
25 posts Joined: Oct 2014
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Just read this recently about PRS, PRS seems like not bad
http://loanstreet.com.my/learning-centre/p...cheme-explained |
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Nov 17 2014, 02:21 PM
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Senior Member
4,724 posts Joined: Jul 2013
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QUOTE(nioshen @ Nov 17 2014, 11:41 AM) Just read this recently about PRS, PRS seems like not bad Not bad compared to what? 1. PRS youth incentive is once-off 2. Basically if you invest in unit trust and/or PRS you have the similar flexibility. 3. Tax relief… it’s only that obvious in tax savings if and when you are in the higher income tax bracket. 4. Due to the limitations of withdrawal similar to that of EPF, one should take note that money going in PRS though provide savings in tax… those money… one cannot touch until one is aged 55. |
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Nov 18 2014, 09:55 AM
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Junior Member
25 posts Joined: Oct 2014
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[quote=adele123,Nov 17 2014, 02:21 PM]
Not bad compared to what? 1. PRS youth incentive is once-off 2. Basically if you invest in unit trust and/or PRS you have the similar flexibility. 3. Tax relief… it’s only that obvious in tax savings if and when you are in the higher income tax bracket. 4. Due to the limitations of withdrawal similar to that of EPF, one should take note that money going in PRS though provide savings in tax… those money… one cannot touch until one is aged 55. [/quote Thx for ur info. I am not making comparison,just merely look at the characteristic of PRS which seems like quite good for retirement |
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Nov 18 2014, 10:16 AM
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Junior Member
139 posts Joined: Nov 2005
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The attractive point is the tax relief if you are at the higher tax bracket........
If you can live without that RM3k annually, its a great deal..... Say at 24 % (more than 100k taxable income annually), so annually, instead of giving RM720 to the government as tax, you keep that RM 720 as retirement fund. Of course the remaining RM 2280 can't be touched till you are 55 years old..... Anyway, the tax relief just applicable till 2022 only if I'm not mistaken which you can stop contributing then. This post has been edited by neospider: Nov 18 2014, 10:17 AM |
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Nov 18 2014, 10:49 AM
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All Stars
52,874 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(neospider @ Nov 18 2014, 10:16 AM) The attractive point is the tax relief if you are at the higher tax bracket........ Tax relief of up to RM3,000 per annum will be applied on taxable income, for individual contributions made to the PRS for the first 10 years from assessment year 2012. If you can live without that RM3k annually, its a great deal..... Say at 24 % (more than 100k taxable income annually), so annually, instead of giving RM720 to the government as tax, you keep that RM 720 as retirement fund. Of course the remaining RM 2280 can't be touched till you are 55 years old..... Anyway, the tax relief just applicable till 2022 only if I'm not mistaken which you can stop contributing then. Til YA2021 Nobody is forcing anybody to contribute. PRS is a voluntary scheme. This post has been edited by David83: Nov 18 2014, 12:35 PM |
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Nov 18 2014, 11:18 AM
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Junior Member
139 posts Joined: Nov 2005
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QUOTE(David83 @ Nov 18 2014, 10:49 AM) Tax relief of up to RM3,000 per annum will be applied on taxable income, for individual contributions made to the PRS for the first 10 years from assessment year 2012. Till year 2021 then...Til YA2011 Nobody is forcing anybody to contribute. PRS is a voluntary scheme. |
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Nov 18 2014, 11:21 AM
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Senior Member
1,856 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: In The HELL FIRE
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can i set my PRS to 40 years old, EPF at 60 years old ?
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Nov 18 2014, 12:36 PM
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All Stars
52,874 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(Pain4UrsinZ @ Nov 18 2014, 11:21 AM) can i set my PRS to 40 years old, EPF at 60 years old ? Set? What you meant by "set"?EPF statutory age is still at 55. |
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Nov 18 2014, 01:14 PM
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Senior Member
1,856 posts Joined: Dec 2008 From: In The HELL FIRE
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QUOTE(David83 @ Nov 18 2014, 12:36 PM) Set? What you meant by "set"? put retirement age for PRS at age 40, but continue working for EPFEPF statutory age is still at 55. |
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Nov 18 2014, 01:27 PM
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Senior Member
2,065 posts Joined: Oct 2014 From: Ipoh,Perak
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QUOTE(Pain4UrsinZ @ Nov 18 2014, 01:14 PM) put retirement age for PRS at age 40, but continue working for EPF PRS is the same as EPF ~ you can only withdraw all your money at the age of 55. |
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Nov 18 2014, 02:30 PM
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Junior Member
428 posts Joined: Mar 2011
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hi...any prs agents here... i want to invest in prs...
because i already got access money from surrender my insurance.. |
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Nov 18 2014, 04:47 PM
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Senior Member
918 posts Joined: Aug 2009
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QUOTE(anz87 @ Nov 18 2014, 02:30 PM) hi...any prs agents here... i want to invest in prs... Alternatively, you can try using Fundsupermart for prs. You will be entitled for a RM30 starbucks card if you deposit RM3k in one go with them before end of this month.because i already got access money from surrender my insurance.. |
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Nov 18 2014, 05:03 PM
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Junior Member
428 posts Joined: Mar 2011
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QUOTE(besiegetank @ Nov 18 2014, 04:47 PM) Alternatively, you can try using Fundsupermart for prs. You will be entitled for a RM30 starbucks card if you deposit RM3k in one go with them before end of this month. owh..how to apply the youth incentive rm500 for person below 30 y.o by using fundsupermart... sorry for the noob question |
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Nov 18 2014, 05:04 PM
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Senior Member
1,031 posts Joined: Jun 2008
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QUOTE(anz87 @ Nov 18 2014, 05:03 PM) owh.. it is automatichow to apply the youth incentive rm500 for person below 30 y.o by using fundsupermart... sorry for the noob question |
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Nov 18 2014, 05:06 PM
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Senior Member
918 posts Joined: Aug 2009
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QUOTE(anz87 @ Nov 18 2014, 05:03 PM) owh.. Just need to open account with them and then mail them a few documents. For more details you can refer here:how to apply the youth incentive rm500 for person below 30 y.o by using fundsupermart... sorry for the noob question http://www.fundsupermart.com.my/main/prs/prsLandingPage.tpl |
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Nov 18 2014, 06:13 PM
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All Stars
10,162 posts Joined: Nov 2014
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QUOTE(anz87 @ Nov 18 2014, 02:30 PM) hi...any prs agents here... i want to invest in prs... just dump 3k into any PRS, that should give you the EPF rebate $$because i already got access money from surrender my insurance.. Alternatively you can reinvest the money from insurance on another policy or use it for some other investment |
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Nov 18 2014, 07:01 PM
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Senior Member
1,031 posts Joined: Jun 2008
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QUOTE(lifebalance @ Nov 18 2014, 06:13 PM) just dump 3k into any PRS, that should give you the EPF rebate $$ what epf rebate? tax relief u mean? or youth incentive?Alternatively you can reinvest the money from insurance on another policy or use it for some other investment |
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Nov 18 2014, 08:51 PM
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All Stars
10,162 posts Joined: Nov 2014
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QUOTE(Hapeng @ Nov 18 2014, 07:01 PM) what epf rebate? tax relief u mean? or youth incentive? tax relief =) |
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Nov 23 2014, 11:56 PM
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Junior Member
113 posts Joined: Nov 2014 From: Kuala Lumpur/Selangor
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You should do a proper research first before selecting which PRS fund to invest. Different PRS funds have different sales fee and management fee and this will affect your return. Also try to look at the fund size and performance of the funds so you can pick the company with the best potential of return. You can refer all this at ppa.my actually...
This post has been edited by eternity4life: Nov 23 2014, 11:56 PM |
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Dec 17 2014, 08:32 PM
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Senior Member
1,054 posts Joined: Jan 2008
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any fund promotion currently?
got 3k to put, 1st time prs! any recommendation? |
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Dec 17 2014, 09:05 PM
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Senior Member
8,188 posts Joined: Apr 2013
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What Should I Consider when joining PRS?
When making your PRS contribution, you need to take into account various factors such as your age, personal and household income, risk tolerance, retirement objective as well as the suitability of the different funds under the various Schemes to meet your retirement needs. It is important to bear in mind the cost of living and inflation in setting your retirement goal as well as to think long-term; do not be overly concerned about short-term market fluctuations. Our needs change through different stages of our lives. You should review your PRS portfolio regularly to ensure that it matches your retirement objectives. Retirement investment objective: Retirement life-stage: Personal risk profile: read more.... http://www.ppa.my/prs/joining-prs/what-should-i-consider/ |
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