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TShappy4ever
post Feb 18 2011, 07:37 AM, updated 14y ago

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Welcome fellow Christians !!! laugh.gif

QUOTE(jdreamer)
We can talk about lots of things here, for examples.. gospels songs (Hillsong, etc), choirs, churches, bible knowledges, or even share our expriences with the Holy Spirit, our Lord, etc. Plus, if there's a chance, we may also go for a gathering or something, or even a trip together like visiting the other churches or do some charity works together. U can also inform us about any events that going on in ur churches, or any concerts & conferences in Malaysia.  smile.gif

Remember, we're not promoting Christianity or trying to evangelize by this thread as its not allowed here. Therefore, we're only here to gather and talk about our daily life, our churches, gospel songs, events going on, or the concerts and conferences, even camps, etc.   tongue.gif

*I'm not trying to make this thread into a flaming zone, but still, we welcome any religious forumers to join us here. So, if ur intended to come in here to insult our religion, please stay away from this thread.  wink.gif   And if u have any questions about the gospel songs, or even the churches, environments around the churches etc, feel free to ask.   smile.gif
Rules to keep the harmony among forummers:
1. Deep theological posts go into RWI, not here. This is to keep this place more lighthearted and to avoid any unnecessary mud-slinging. Therefore, I'd prefer this thread to be more of a fellowship thread among Christians, ok?

2. STRICTLY no links or talks about MP3 downloads. I will not hesitate to flag anyone for a warning if I see any more such posts. Talks about music in general though, are fine.

3. NO PREACHING or bashing of other religions/denominations. We are one in the family.

Good links to share:
http://www.opensong.org/

Opensong!!! It uses your WinXP's extended screen on the projector. So you have your controls in your laptop, and the screen on the projector. It also supports Chinese, and has songs packs and bible verses too, so you can project those verses on screen.

http://www.guitar4christ.com
a database of chords and lyrics for christian songs.

GodTV



Online Bibles!
English Bible (with multi lingual): http://www.biblegateway.com/

Indonesian/Malay Bible: http://alkitab.otak.info/

Arabic Bible: http://www.arabicbible.com/bible/doc_bible.htm



Previous thread V4: http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/801729

This post has been edited by happy4ever: Apr 6 2011, 03:35 PM
TShappy4ever
post Feb 18 2011, 07:38 AM

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For all the Christians, please do let us know about u, like denominations, which church u r from and where is ur church located. Oh, beside that, do let us know what position are u holding in ur church, as in.. hmm pianist ? choral singer ? or even Pastor. tongue.gif

LYN Christ Followers List:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


(Please type in this template [so its easier for me to edit the list]: Username - Denomination | Church | Area Serve-in)
Either PM me or post to notify. But if after u've posted in this thread and I havent add u in the list, please PM me to notify me. Thanks. smile.gif

Christian Bookshops:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This post has been edited by happy4ever: May 1 2012, 10:41 AM
mumeichan
post Feb 18 2011, 07:43 AM

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Yay v5 finally. Praise God
TShappy4ever
post Feb 18 2011, 07:54 AM

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Attending DUMC now. how are you guys? smile.gif
toocommon
post Feb 18 2011, 09:33 AM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Feb 18 2011, 07:54 AM)
Attending DUMC now. how are you guys? smile.gif
*
last week went to a fren's church in cheras, charis christian centre, think will settle down there since got fren.
darkddly
post Feb 18 2011, 09:40 AM

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eeekk,,,i dunno there is christian lounge in /k/..lol
mekboyz
post Feb 18 2011, 09:53 AM

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Congrats on the new thread.

Also:

"I'd prefer this thread to be more of a fellowship thread among Christians, ok?"

I may not be a christian, that's fine but im just here to learn more about Christianity.
hotjake
post Feb 18 2011, 10:32 AM

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TShappy4ever
post Feb 18 2011, 10:57 AM

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QUOTE(toocommon @ Feb 18 2011, 09:33 AM)
last week went to a fren's church in cheras, charis christian centre, think will settle down there since got fren.
*
oh. i have been to their PJ branch before..its a chinese church right? they used to have one in SS2 and we pinjamed it for our college CF meetups biggrin.gif

QUOTE(darkddly @ Feb 18 2011, 09:40 AM)
eeekk,,,i dunno there is christian lounge in /k/..lol
*
yeah.... u a christian? biggrin.gif

QUOTE(mekboyz @ Feb 18 2011, 09:53 AM)
Congrats on the new thread.

Also:

"I'd prefer this thread to be more of a fellowship thread among Christians, ok?"

I may not be a christian, that's fine but im just here to learn more about Christianity.
*
no problemo.

we two are trolls lol...sama sama troll each other. tongue.gif

QUOTE(hotjake @ Feb 18 2011, 10:32 AM)
FSM church member
*
Welkam my fellow priest! thumbup.gif
mekboyz
post Feb 18 2011, 11:03 AM

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You misunderstood me, im not here to troll anybody doh.gif

Its like what sun tzu said in the art of war, if you want to destroy your enemy, you must first learn about it. As an atheist i will do my part to illuminate the people of this world about the fallacies of all organized religion.

Sorry if i offended anybody. Wont post here anymore, i will just lurk around smile.gif
ymc2303
post Feb 18 2011, 11:10 AM

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I wonder if hillsong is coming to malaysia again?
TShappy4ever
post Feb 18 2011, 11:13 AM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Feb 18 2011, 11:03 AM)
You misunderstood me, im not here to troll anybody  doh.gif

Its like what sun tzu said in the art of war, if you want to destroy your enemy, you must first learn about it. As an atheist i will do my part to illuminate the people of this world about the fallacies of all organized religion.

Sorry if i offended anybody. Wont post here anymore, i will just lurk around  smile.gif
*
LOL

who cares if its fallacies or not.

If churches/temples/mosques benefits the community, by charitable works, donations, education, etc.... why go spoil the deed? Why not join in and help out the community rather than wasting time on senseless debate? Win the argument, but lose the fight...what for?
toocommon
post Feb 18 2011, 11:19 AM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Feb 18 2011, 10:57 AM)
oh. i have been to their PJ branch before..its a chinese church right? they used to have one in SS2 and we pinjamed it for our college CF meetups biggrin.gif
*
got branch in pj? not sure. it's a church with english and chinese service.
r u going to dumc this weekend? i go meet u there and show u my hot body brows.gif
VaLeNrUdOn
post Feb 18 2011, 11:22 AM

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Hi all,..i'm new!..
christian from penang. .biggrin.gif...
Song Leader + Musician (drummer, pianist and guitarist).

toocommon
post Feb 18 2011, 11:37 AM

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QUOTE(VaLeNrUdOn @ Feb 18 2011, 11:22 AM)
Hi all,..i'm new!..
christian from penang. .biggrin.gif...
Song Leader + Musician (drummer, pianist and guitarist).
*
Wow, cool! nice to meet u! =)
TShappy4ever
post Feb 18 2011, 11:41 AM

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QUOTE(toocommon @ Feb 18 2011, 11:19 AM)
got branch in pj? not sure. it's a church with english and chinese  service.
r u going to dumc this weekend? i go meet u there and show u my hot body  brows.gif
*
hahaha mari mari brows.gif

QUOTE(VaLeNrUdOn @ Feb 18 2011, 11:22 AM)
Hi all,..i'm new!..
christian from penang. .biggrin.gif...
Song Leader + Musician (drummer, pianist and guitarist).
*
nice to meet u!

got church name? i wan add u to the list wub.gif
Vorador
post Feb 18 2011, 12:06 PM

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new Church lipoting in halleluuuuujah ~~~
darkddly
post Feb 18 2011, 12:08 PM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Feb 18 2011, 10:57 AM)

yeah.... u a christian?  biggrin.gif


*
nope, free. if it pleases someone i luv, why no..but still free
Vorador
post Feb 18 2011, 12:10 PM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Feb 18 2011, 01:03 AM)
you mean the bible said so? but how do you know its completely true? because:

Martyn Percy, the great canon doctor, as says that “the Bible did not arrive by fax from heaven”. He goes on to say that the Bible is a product of man, not of God. “The Bible did not magically fall from the clouds. Man created it as a historical record of tumultuous times, and it has evolved through countless translations, additions and revisions. History has never had a definitive version of the book.”

*
Brudder.... God is supernature lar, that's why so many things written thorough the centuries only these few chapters kept until now? God is keeping his word through man's hand. nod.gif

I was in the dead sea scroll in Singapore last 2 years, after seeing how these scrolls are discovered and transcript-ed, you will definitely agreed that all are word from God.

This post has been edited by Vorador: Feb 18 2011, 12:11 PM
Vorador
post Feb 18 2011, 12:13 PM

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eh any Catholic here? I have a question which trilled me for sometimes...

For Roman Catholic, are u all 'allowed' to take Holy Communion yourself at home? Or it must be in Church and fed by the priest during Communion?
Vorador
post Feb 18 2011, 12:14 PM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Feb 18 2011, 11:41 AM)
hahaha mari mari  brows.gif
nice to meet u!

got church name? i wan add u to the list  wub.gif
*
can add me too? New Creation Church Singapore.
TShappy4ever
post Feb 18 2011, 01:00 PM

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QUOTE(Vorador @ Feb 18 2011, 12:14 PM)
can add me too? New Creation Church Singapore.
*
added liao

welcome! wub.gif
pehkay
post Feb 18 2011, 01:25 PM

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Ho ... V5? tongue.gif .... where ayumi?
toocommon
post Feb 18 2011, 01:26 PM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Feb 18 2011, 11:41 AM)
hahaha mari mari  brows.gif
*
im afraid out of topic liao, but anyway check ur pm. brows.gif
Vorador
post Feb 18 2011, 01:36 PM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Feb 18 2011, 01:00 PM)
added liao

welcome!  wub.gif
*
TQ ~~~ wub.gif
pehkay
post Feb 18 2011, 01:41 PM

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Vorador, u singaporean?
Robin Hood
post Feb 18 2011, 01:42 PM

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wahh, ken added added wan,

me catholic from st philip tamparuli sabah
happy_berry
post Feb 18 2011, 01:42 PM

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QUOTE(Vorador @ Feb 18 2011, 12:13 PM)
eh any Catholic here? I have a question which trilled me for sometimes...

For Roman Catholic, are u all 'allowed' to take Holy Communion yourself at home? Or it must be in Church and fed by the priest during Communion?
*
Do you even know what you're asking?
Do you even know what Holy Communion means to Catholics?

If you answer no to one of the question, then I suggest using google to guide you.

May the intelligence be with you.


QUOTE(Robin Hood @ Feb 18 2011, 01:42 PM)
wahh, ken added added wan,

me catholic from st philip tamparuli sabah
*
You're from East Malaysia-Sabah? I am immensely amused. smile.gif

This post has been edited by happy_berry: Feb 18 2011, 01:44 PM
pehkay
post Feb 18 2011, 02:00 PM

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Why amused?
Robin Hood
post Feb 18 2011, 02:03 PM

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QUOTE(happy_berry @ Feb 18 2011, 01:42 PM)

May the intelligence be with you.
You're from East Malaysia-Sabah? I am immensely amused.  smile.gif
*
yes and why? unsure.gif
Vorador
post Feb 18 2011, 02:05 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Feb 18 2011, 01:41 PM)
Vorador, u singaporean?
*
nope, aku malaysian.

QUOTE(happy_berry @ Feb 18 2011, 01:42 PM)
Do you even know what you're asking?
Do you even know what Holy Communion means to Catholics?

If you answer no to one of the question, then I suggest using google to guide you.

May the intelligence be with you.
You're from East Malaysia-Sabah? I am immensely amused.  smile.gif
*
if what I asked offended you, then means something VERY WRONG with you. doh.gif shakehead.gif

Holy Communion means A LOT to every Christian, not just Catholic, I just ask how Catholic ppl's practice on it so I know what to do when I invite another Catholic to take Holy Communion together.
toocommon
post Feb 18 2011, 02:08 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Feb 18 2011, 02:00 PM)
Why amused?
*
Robin Hood
post Feb 18 2011, 02:08 PM

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QUOTE(Vorador @ Feb 18 2011, 02:05 PM)


Holy Communion means A LOT to every Christian, not just Catholic, I just ask how Catholic ppl's practice on it so I know what to do when I invite another Catholic to take Holy Communion together.
*
please explain more on the bolded part?

happy_berry
post Feb 18 2011, 02:11 PM

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QUOTE(Robin Hood @ Feb 18 2011, 02:03 PM)
yes and why? unsure.gif
*
Trees got internet meh? ohmy.gif


QUOTE(Vorador @ Feb 18 2011, 02:05 PM)
nope, aku malaysian.
if what I asked offended you, then means something VERY WRONG with you.  doh.gif  shakehead.gif

Holy Communion means A LOT to every Christian, not just Catholic, I just ask how Catholic ppl's practice on it so I know what to do when I invite another Catholic to take Holy Communion together.
*
It's funny how people always ask if I'm offended whenever I post something like that. laugh.gif
Anyways,
you go google Holy Communion then post here.

May the stupidity be with you.

This post has been edited by happy_berry: Feb 18 2011, 02:11 PM
Vorador
post Feb 18 2011, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(Robin Hood @ Feb 18 2011, 02:08 PM)
please explain more on the bolded part?
*
- Edited coz decided to change tune -

OK i gotta move soon, and our house will be 3 Catholic and 4 Christian. And our custom is, to take holy communion for something important just like this, move house. so what i think is, better ask first b4 do anything.

This post has been edited by Vorador: Feb 18 2011, 02:13 PM
Vorador
post Feb 18 2011, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(happy_berry @ Feb 18 2011, 02:11 PM)
Trees got internet meh?  ohmy.gif
It's funny how people always ask if I'm offended whenever I post something like that.  laugh.gif
Anyways,
you go google Holy Communion then post here.

May the stupidity be with you.
*
*Justin Bieber hug you*
pehkay
post Feb 18 2011, 02:15 PM

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QUOTE(Vorador @ Feb 18 2011, 02:12 PM)
THEN I KNOW WHAT TO DO AND WHAT NOT TO DO IS THAT CLEAR?

Man I hate those legalism Christian.
*
As in versus the Spirit led Christian tongue.gif
Vorador
post Feb 18 2011, 02:18 PM

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I just wish it wont be any law-keeping or law-driven believer here. (just like those pharisees)
happy_berry
post Feb 18 2011, 02:20 PM

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QUOTE(Vorador @ Feb 18 2011, 02:12 PM)
- Edited coz decided to change tune -

OK i gotta move soon, and our house will be 3 Catholic and 4 Christian. And our custom is, to take holy communion for something important just like this, move house. so what i think is, better ask first b4 do anything.
*
U do your own thing la. Why want to involve Catholics? Christian and Catholics are not the same-they never will.

Why you never google how Catholics define Holy Communion?

QUOTE(pehkay @ Feb 18 2011, 02:15 PM)
As in versus the Spirit led Christian tongue.gif
*
Nice catch! U fastpoke wan.. biggrin.gif
Robin Hood
post Feb 18 2011, 02:21 PM

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QUOTE(Vorador @ Feb 18 2011, 02:12 PM)
THEN I KNOW WHAT TO DO AND WHAT NOT TO DO IS THAT CLEAR?

Man I hate those legalism Christian.
*
are u in any position to offer the Eucharist?

btw, for catholics, we normally take holy communion in catholic church. never heard of it been done other way
hotjake
post Feb 18 2011, 02:22 PM

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hotjake - N/A | FSM Church | i serve pasta to church goers on sunday

This post has been edited by hotjake: Feb 18 2011, 02:23 PM
mekboyz
post Feb 18 2011, 02:25 PM

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hey i have a question for you bible belts, why christians always talk bout catholics as if they are different? Isnt catholism the original christian religion. Then only all the political hustlers few centuries ago created protestanism la methodist la just to suit their own goals. So yea the true christians are the catholics.
pehkay
post Feb 18 2011, 02:25 PM

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QUOTE(happy_berry @ Feb 18 2011, 02:20 PM)
U do your own thing la. Why want to involve Catholics? Christian and Catholics are not the same-they never will.

Why you never google how Catholics define Holy Communion?
Nice catch! U fastpoke wan..  biggrin.gif
*
Ah yoh, we are all Christian believing in Christ ... why "not the same"? biggrin.gif



happy_berry
post Feb 18 2011, 02:29 PM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Feb 18 2011, 02:25 PM)
hey i have a question for you bible belts, why christians always talk bout catholics as if they are different? Isnt catholism the original christian religion. Then only all the political hustlers few centuries ago created protestanism la methodist la just to suit their own goals. So yea the true christians are the catholics.
*
We have too many Christians. But we all know there is only 1 that is genuine.

QUOTE(pehkay @ Feb 18 2011, 02:25 PM)
Ah yoh, we are all Christian believing in Christ ... why "not the same"? biggrin.gif
*
Anglican, if I'm not mistaken, their cross has no Jesus on it. Why leh?
pehkay
post Feb 18 2011, 02:32 PM

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QUOTE(happy_berry @ Feb 18 2011, 02:29 PM)
We have too many Christians. But we all know there is only 1 that is genuine.
Anglican, if I'm not mistaken, their cross has no Jesus on it. Why leh?
*
The cross is "meaningless" outwardly/physically if we don't experience the cross of Christ in our daily life. Do we experience Christ's death in dealing with world, Satan, sin, old man (Rom 6:6), flesh (Gal 5:24) etc ....

I am afraid that what we Christian today have is just an outward icon but not spiritual reality ...

wink.gif

This post has been edited by pehkay: Feb 18 2011, 02:38 PM
Robin Hood
post Feb 18 2011, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE(happy_berry @ Feb 18 2011, 02:11 PM)
Trees got internet meh?  ohmy.gif

*
sabah trees > sarawak trees
pehkay
post Feb 18 2011, 02:39 PM

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QUOTE(Robin Hood @ Feb 18 2011, 02:38 PM)
sabah trees > sarawak trees
*
Which part? KK?
ymc2303
post Feb 18 2011, 02:42 PM

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i m a chirstian turned atheist. am i welcomed?
Robin Hood
post Feb 18 2011, 02:43 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Feb 18 2011, 02:39 PM)
Which part? KK?
*
well, now im at kk, if not tamparuli
happy_berry
post Feb 18 2011, 02:45 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Feb 18 2011, 02:32 PM)
The cross is "meaningless" outwardly/physically if we don't experience the cross of Christ in our daily life. Do we experience Christ death in dealing with world, Satan, sin, old man (Rom 6:6) etc ....

I am afraid that what we Christian today have is just outward icon but not spiritual reality ...

wink.gif
*
Then why people still bother using the cross if it's meaningless as you said it is?

You're generalizing too much. But then again, that is only your narrow-minded opinion.

This post has been edited by happy_berry: Feb 18 2011, 02:48 PM
happy_berry
post Feb 18 2011, 02:46 PM

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QUOTE(Robin Hood @ Feb 18 2011, 02:38 PM)
sabah trees > sarawak trees
*
brows.gif

QUOTE(ymc2303 @ Feb 18 2011, 02:42 PM)
i m a chirstian turned atheist. am i welcomed?
*
Why you become Atheist?

This post has been edited by happy_berry: Feb 18 2011, 02:47 PM
ymc2303
post Feb 18 2011, 02:48 PM

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QUOTE(happy_berry @ Feb 18 2011, 02:45 PM)
Then why people still bother using the cross?

You're generalizing too much. But then again, that is only your narrow-minded opinion.
*
cross is a mere symbolic item. Like rosary for the angelicans. it only matter if you are using that for personal gain.
beatlesalbum
post Feb 18 2011, 02:49 PM

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you said no bashing other denominations, but mormons?
mekboyz
post Feb 18 2011, 02:52 PM

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QUOTE(beatlesalbum @ Feb 18 2011, 02:49 PM)
you said no bashing other denominations, but mormons?
*
christians think that mormons, or the church of latter day saints, aren't a real religion
pehkay
post Feb 18 2011, 02:59 PM

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QUOTE(happy_berry @ Feb 18 2011, 02:45 PM)
Then why people still bother using the cross if it's meaningless as you said it is?

You're generalizing too much. But then again, that is only your narrow-minded opinion.
*
Am I? Iconography has creep much into the church after the 1st century. I don't think the early believers have that....

Anyway, my point is another: having the object doesn't mean anything. It doesn't have any power ....

One who lived in the reality of the death of Christ (Phil 3:10) and of course, the resurrection of Christ is another thing ...


pehkay
post Feb 18 2011, 03:06 PM

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QUOTE(Robin Hood @ Feb 18 2011, 02:43 PM)
well, now im  at kk, if not tamparuli
*
Never been to tamparuli ... been to Ranau, Tenom, Keningau and Nabawan

hotjake
post Feb 18 2011, 03:16 PM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Feb 18 2011, 02:52 PM)
christians think that mormons, or the church of latter day saints, aren't a real religion
*
dats kinda biased don ya think? jesus is sad that his teachings got splitted into so many denominations. if he's around today, he'd give each n everyone of us a good slap. after that a kiss to soothe the cheeckhurt hehe
ymc2303
post Feb 18 2011, 03:20 PM

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QUOTE(hotjake @ Feb 18 2011, 03:16 PM)
dats kinda biased don ya think? jesus is sad that his teachings got splitted into so many denominations. if he's around today, he'd give each n everyone of us a good slap. after that a kiss to soothe the cheeckhurt hehe
*
sadly its denominations that separate all the christians apart. There are even christians suing christians.
hotjake
post Feb 18 2011, 03:26 PM

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QUOTE(ymc2303 @ Feb 18 2011, 03:20 PM)
sadly its denominations that separate all the christians apart. There are even christians suing christians.
*
venomous n full of hate, they claim others as blind n not following the true path.
pehkay
post Feb 18 2011, 03:35 PM

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In Malaysia?
lookig4room
post Feb 18 2011, 04:12 PM

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Nice to find a Christian lounge in lowyat.

I'm a Christian too! Attending CBC Sunway-Subang smile.gif
Vorador
post Feb 18 2011, 06:06 PM

Blessed !!!
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Catholic and Christian will never be the same? Our heavenly Abba definitely feel SAD when He see His children comment like this.
TShappy4ever
post Feb 19 2011, 12:52 AM

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QUOTE(Robin Hood @ Feb 18 2011, 01:42 PM)
wahh, ken added added wan,

me catholic from st philip tamparuli sabah
*
Added u liao welcome! rclxms.gif

QUOTE(Vorador @ Feb 18 2011, 02:05 PM)
nope, aku malaysian.
if what I asked offended you, then means something VERY WRONG with you.  doh.gif  shakehead.gif

Holy Communion means A LOT to every Christian, not just Catholic, I just ask how Catholic ppl's practice on it so I know what to do when I invite another Catholic to take Holy Communion together.
*
For non-Catholics like me, Holy Communion basically means the covenant we make with Christ until He comes again as King.
The early churches started off in groups of people, (like cell groups) and they broke bread among each other, gave thanks to God, and partake in it.
Its to honour, and in remembrance of God's grace, and Christ's sacrifice to us, that we may have eternal life.
Always refer back to the Bible, God's Word, and pray for the Spirit to lead you.

There is no wrong to break bread among each other in honour God's grace for mankind. Just do not do it in a dishonourable manner.


QUOTE(happy_berry @ Feb 18 2011, 02:11 PM)
Trees got internet meh?   ohmy.gif
It's funny how people always ask if I'm offended whenever I post something like that.  laugh.gif
Anyways,
you go google Holy Communion then post here.

May the stupidity be with you.
*
One more crude remark from you, I'll report you and have you suspended for trolling.

QUOTE(mekboyz @ Feb 18 2011, 02:25 PM)
hey i have a question for you bible belts, why christians always talk bout catholics as if they are different? Isnt catholism the original christian religion. Then only all the political hustlers few centuries ago created protestanism la methodist la just to suit their own goals. So yea the true christians are the catholics.
*
Nice fallacy you have there. I thought you said you shant be posting here again? Yet you're still trolling here again and again.

True Christians are those that have accept Christ as LORD and Saviour, Believed He died on the cross and rose again on the 3rd day, seated at the right hand of God, and will come again as King. True Christians are those that had repented their sinful life, and offer their lives for God and seek the Spirit to take control of their lives.

Thus your question is moot. smile.gif

QUOTE(beatlesalbum @ Feb 18 2011, 02:49 PM)
you said no bashing other denominations, but mormons?
*
Technically, mormons do not believe what the Christians believed. Namely in the Triune nature of God, God's grace and salvation and Jesus' divinity.
Joseph Smith declared himself receiving revelations in golden plagues, of which he had forgotten what it was written in it, and went forth to create another one.
He also predicted Jesus' 2nd comming, which never did happened...and this went against the Bible in which Jesus shall come like a thief in the night. From a theological perspective, Mormonism isn't in line with the teachings in the Bible. Its not even a denomination. Its a new religion.

QUOTE(lookig4room @ Feb 18 2011, 04:12 PM)
Nice to find a Christian lounge in lowyat.

I'm a Christian too! Attending CBC Sunway-Subang smile.gif
*
Added u liao, welcome! rclxms.gif

QUOTE(Vorador @ Feb 18 2011, 06:06 PM)
Catholic and Christian will never be the same? Our heavenly Abba definitely feel SAD when He see His children comment like this.
*
Dont be trolled.

If you have prayed the sinners prayer, believed in Christ, and asked the Holy Spirit into your life, you then, are God's child. smile.gif


Added on February 19, 2011, 12:58 ampehkay, which church are you from? i add u to the list.



This post has been edited by happy4ever: Feb 19 2011, 12:58 AM
figuremeout
post Feb 19 2011, 01:40 AM

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<----serve in the music ministry.. shalom all.
TShappy4ever
post Feb 19 2011, 01:44 AM

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QUOTE(figuremeout @ Feb 19 2011, 01:40 AM)
<----serve in the music ministry.. shalom all.
*
Shalom!

which church are you from?
figuremeout
post Feb 19 2011, 01:49 AM

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QUOTE(Vorador @ Feb 18 2011, 12:14 PM)
can add me too? New Creation Church Singapore.
*
QUOTE(happy4ever @ Feb 19 2011, 01:44 AM)
Shalom!

which church are you from?
*
SIB Grace Kuching,Sarawak nod.gif


TShappy4ever
post Feb 19 2011, 02:04 AM

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QUOTE(figuremeout @ Feb 19 2011, 01:49 AM)
SIB Grace Kuching,Sarawak  nod.gif
*
Added

Welcome! rclxms.gif
figuremeout
post Feb 19 2011, 02:21 AM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Feb 19 2011, 02:04 AM)
Added

Welcome!  rclxms.gif
*
Thx!
just wanna wish everyone a blessed weekend ahead.


catcha
post Feb 21 2011, 07:22 PM

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Any of you based in Sydney like I am? blush.gif
mekboyz
post Feb 21 2011, 07:39 PM

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So does christianity frown upon homosexuality? because i noticed one forumer is a member of the PLU/LGBT club whilst also being a member here.
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post Feb 21 2011, 07:51 PM

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mumeichan
post Feb 21 2011, 09:45 PM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Feb 21 2011, 07:39 PM)
So does christianity frown upon homosexuality? because i noticed one forumer is a member of the PLU/LGBT club whilst also being a member here.
*
It's not a behavior that God condones and is spoken against in the Bible. However there are other stuff that God doesn't condone too. And everyone is called to God, homosexual or not and whoever that does whatever else that doesn't please God. It isn't right to exclude a homosexual from a Christian group as it isn't right to exclude a stingy person from a Christian group.

Now, as to why God doesn't like homosexuality or whether the Bible really has something against it or not, that's not even worth an argument. To become a Christian doesn't mean to lose the argument. Being a Christian ultimately is a relationship between you or anyone else and God. They can seek out God and I trust God will reveal to them what he wants them to do and not to do. I'm not here to prescribe the recipe to go to heaven or hell and similarly that isn't the responsibility of any Christian. Nor is it out responsibility to go out in a theological warfare to convince anyone that the Bible needs to be interpreted in a certain way. Anyone who want to know what's good or bad just needs a sincere heart to please God and God will handle the rest.

We might frown upon homosexuality, not because of what it is, but because or what God has decided.However our job as Christians isn't to frown upon anyone in this world. Our job isn't to judge anyone either. That isn't what Jesus nor any of the apostles though us.

This post has been edited by mumeichan: Feb 21 2011, 09:50 PM
zennasyndroxx
post Feb 28 2011, 10:42 PM

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what's up world? prayed? =)
mekboyz
post Feb 28 2011, 10:53 PM

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QUOTE(zennasyndroxx @ Feb 28 2011, 10:42 PM)
what's up world? prayed? =)
*
to who?
pehkay
post Mar 1 2011, 11:39 AM

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QUOTE(zennasyndroxx @ Feb 28 2011, 10:42 PM)
what's up world? prayed? =)
*
Some manna for today .. wink.gif

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in offenses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved) (6) And raised us up together with Him and seated us together with Him in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus,

He not only raised us up from the position of death, but also seated us in the highest place in the universe. The heavenlies are the high position into which we have been saved in Christ. In the book of Romans, Christ as our righteousness has brought us into such a state that we may be acceptable to God. In the book of Ephesians, Christ as our life has saved us into such a position that we may be above all God's enemies. The church people today are in the heavenlies.

The word “heavenlies” is rather peculiar. It refers not only to a place, but also to an atmosphere with a certain nature and characteristic. God's salvation by life has brought us into a heavenly place and into a heavenly atmosphere with a heavenly characteristic. When we meet together, we often have the deep sense that we are not in an earthly atmosphere, but in a heavenly atmosphere. However, if you go to a theater or some other worldly place, you will have the sense that you are immersed in an earthly atmosphere. Because we are in a heavenly atmosphere with a heavenly nature and a heavenly characteristic, we are a heavenly people. God's salvation has transferred us into such a realm and atmosphere.
khaiandrew
post Mar 1 2011, 09:13 PM

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<<<<<<< Roman Catholic- St Ignatius biggrin.gif
TShappy4ever
post Mar 3 2011, 03:43 AM

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QUOTE(khaiandrew @ Mar 1 2011, 09:13 PM)
<<<<<<< Roman Catholic- St Ignatius biggrin.gif
*
Welcome smile.gif added to the list
wrigleyz
post Mar 8 2011, 12:55 AM

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Anglican. St.Thomas Bintulu,Sarawak. Add me into list smile.gif
TShappy4ever
post Mar 8 2011, 11:53 AM

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QUOTE(wrigleyz @ Mar 8 2011, 12:55 AM)
Anglican. St.Thomas Bintulu,Sarawak. Add me into list smile.gif
*
Added rclxms.gif welcome welcome
beatlesalbum
post Mar 9 2011, 11:04 AM

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QUOTE(mumeichan @ Feb 21 2011, 09:45 PM)
It's not a behavior that God condones and is spoken against in the Bible. However there are other stuff that God doesn't condone too. And everyone is called to God, homosexual or not and whoever that does whatever else that doesn't please God. It isn't right to exclude a homosexual from a Christian group as it isn't right to exclude a stingy person from a Christian group.

Now, as to why God doesn't like homosexuality or whether the Bible really has something against it or not, that's not even worth an argument. To become a Christian doesn't mean to lose the argument. Being a Christian ultimately is a relationship between you or anyone else and God. They can seek out God and I trust God will reveal to them what he wants them to do and not to do. I'm not here to prescribe the recipe to go to heaven or hell and similarly that isn't the responsibility of any Christian. Nor is it out responsibility to go out in a theological warfare to convince anyone that the Bible needs to be interpreted in a certain way. Anyone who want to know what's good or bad just needs a sincere heart to please God and God will handle the rest.

We might frown upon homosexuality, not because of what it is, but because or what God has decided.However our job as Christians isn't to frown upon anyone in this world. Our job isn't to judge anyone either. That isn't what Jesus nor any of the apostles though us.
*
Thats right!!! God is a God of all, sinners, believers, all human alike! Jesus even dined and sat with with tax collectors and prostitutes who were then seen as the most despicable crowd that time.


Added on March 9, 2011, 11:05 amJust relocated to Brunei.. looking for a church. But you can add me anyway LOL


Added on March 9, 2011, 11:09 amhttp://bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=212

Interesting read for u h4e, but i think you know this already and is merely trolling.

This post has been edited by beatlesalbum: Mar 9 2011, 11:09 AM
wrigleyz
post Mar 9 2011, 04:35 PM

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Hi bro n sis in Christ. Today we'll have our mass : Ash Wednesday
ymc2303
post Mar 9 2011, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Feb 18 2011, 02:25 PM)
hey i have a question for you bible belts, why christians always talk bout catholics as if they are different? Isnt catholism the original christian religion. Then only all the political hustlers few centuries ago created protestanism la methodist la just to suit their own goals. So yea the true christians are the catholics.
*
you are so very wrong. Those that preach about how about themselves and waste time discriminating about each other's religion rather than to spread the Message, those are the false prophets..

Methodology is the reason why there are many denominations branch out from the original..But that does not justify what these denominated churches are practising is true or wrong.. Only He have the right to judge. hmm.gif
sentinal3_16
post Mar 30 2011, 10:51 PM

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Anybody can recommend a good prostestant church in melaka?
TShappy4ever
post Apr 1 2011, 10:40 AM

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Posted by someone...

QUOTE
You know what, I read few articles and 1 book, that talks about afterlife. Do you know Ps. Philip Mantofa who visited hell? He wrote a book about it and he said there are christians in the hell, too. You can check out Pastor Philip Mantofa from youtube.com

Have you read a book called "Heaven is so true"? The author also said the same thing, many christians are in the hell, some of them are in the hell mainly because they don't tithe.

Then the other article I read was that there were 2 men in the hell, the reasons were because both of them being too stingy and didn't help their neighbour and churchmate respectively. Another one is that a devoted christian (serve in church) doesn't forgive the friends who didn't visit her during her sickness and stayed in hospital, she ends up being in hell. There are many more examples (or testimonies), I can't include them all here...

I'm not spreading rumours, just that Christians do not lie and what's more the above 2 christians who write the books are devoted christians, but I just confused: how much can we guaranteed one's salvation? I mean, is tithe really that important to gain salvation? How does God judge someone's salvation? I need the answer!!

happy4ever, you will never understand how frustrated I am, I want an answer, answer, answer!! Don't just keep telling me God is good, I know is good, but tell me how good is good, how does God justify thing, let me know the boundaries, let me know the clear cut answer! One of my christian friend (about 50+ years old), he became so close to God as he spends few hours in prayer every day and he told me YES, Christians are possible to go to hell, too, when conviction comes to you and you still live with it, you will end up being in hell.

Sometimes, comparing the impression I had about God before I attended church (when I was still in secondary school), I found out my faith is so weak after years of attending church.
3In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 … given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory. (Ephesians 1:13-14)]

that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved (Romans 10:9)

Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. (James 1:12)

Why worry about hell and heaven?

Question back at you: Do you want to go to heaven because you LOVE God and WANT to, or because you do NOT want to be in hell?
If its the former, then you have no issue.
If its the latter, then you seriously have an issue. For God is not genuinely in your life or your heart.
Worship is 24/7, by acts, words, and thoughts...not just every sunday warming the pew.

Persevere in all your trials and tribulations and resist temptations as much as you can endure. God gives us trial not overbearing us. For if we seek unto Christ the strength, we shall prevail. remember, Jesus INTERCEDES for us.

Its because we have Christ and the Holy Spirit, all the more we WANT to glorify God through deeds pleasing to Him

Also in James 2:14-26:
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.


If you have faith on a chair that will hold your weight, you demonstrate it by sitting on it straight away.
Likewise, if you have faith in God, demonstrate it by living life according to His Word.

smile.gif

QUOTE
Romans 6:18 - we are no longer bound by sin.
When you are saved, your salvation is guaranteed. God knows your true intent

Does this including the christians, after accepted Christ and do not repent of their sins?


That goes to show if you are truly sincere in accepting Christ.
When praying the sinners prayer prior to becoming a Christian, you already repented and is willing to be buried your old self with Christ, and be ressurected as a new person in Christ (ie baptism) and thus you no longer are bound by your old ways, but the path led by the Holy Spirit. But when you DELIBERATELY sin..you are directly rejecting the Holy Spirit.

Conscious and unconscious sins...we all still sin. But God knows our heart's intent. Whether we are truly evil or after the heart of God.


dnth
post Apr 2 2011, 11:53 PM

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what is the good news on 2nd April?
heard that malaysian churches are finally recognized by government??
TShappy4ever
post Apr 3 2011, 12:07 AM

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QUOTE(dnth @ Apr 2 2011, 11:53 PM)
what is the good news on 2nd April?
heard that malaysian churches are finally recognized by government??
*
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...3658&sec=nation

rclxms.gif

Hallelujah...unconditional import of Bibles of any languages

Now the next step would be for the overthrowing of the government, starting with Sabah Sarawak...and remove Satan's stronghold there...and Jesus will reign! flex.gif
SUSDeadlocks
post Apr 3 2011, 09:52 AM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Apr 3 2011, 12:07 AM)
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...3658&sec=nation

rclxms.gif

Hallelujah...unconditional import of Bibles of any languages

Now the next step would be for the overthrowing of the government, starting with Sabah Sarawak...and remove Satan's stronghold there...and Jesus will reign! flex.gif
*
It has always been evident that the ones who are spiritually truthful are secure in their faith, unlike those who reacted with insecurity, simply either because THEIR faith is easily shaken, or worse, THE faith is actually wrong.

I didn't go church again today, but good morning people who all believes in the God of the Bible, and the Savior Jesus Christ.

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Apr 3 2011, 09:53 AM
SUSDeadlocks
post Apr 3 2011, 04:15 PM

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"They are one people and have one language, and nothing will be withholden from them which they purpose to do." So God said, "Come, let us go down and confound their speech." And so God scattered them upon the face of the Earth, and confused their languages, and they left off building the city, which was called Babel "because God there confounded the language of all the Earth."

The video shows communication of the purest form, aside from those babies being cute.



Only then, we are slowly adulterated with symbolism, also known as language.

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Apr 3 2011, 04:21 PM
TShappy4ever
post Apr 3 2011, 04:52 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Apr 3 2011, 09:52 AM)
It has always been evident that the ones who are spiritually truthful are secure in their faith, unlike those who reacted with insecurity, simply either because THEIR faith is easily shaken, or worse, THE faith is actually wrong.

I didn't go church again today, but good morning people who all believes in the God of the Bible, and the Savior Jesus Christ.
*
haha mee too blush.gif lots of things to do.... so lazy abit tongue.gif
beatlesalbum
post Apr 4 2011, 11:33 AM

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happy monday all
beatlesalbum
post Apr 4 2011, 11:35 AM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Apr 3 2011, 09:52 AM)
It has always been evident that the ones who are spiritually truthful are secure in their faith, unlike those who reacted with insecurity, simply either because THEIR faith is easily shaken, or worse, THE faith is actually wrong.

I didn't go church again today, but good morning people who all believes in the God of the Bible, and the Savior Jesus Christ.
*
we still need our daily devotion time with the Word though.
pehkay
post Apr 4 2011, 07:00 PM

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Bible Verses

Eph 4:3 Being diligent to keep the oneness of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace: (4) One Body and one Spirit, even as also you were called in one hope of your calling; (5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism; (6) One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

In exhorting us to safeguard the oneness (4:3), the Apostle Paul points out seven things as the base, the very foundation, of our oneness: one Body, one Spirit, one hope, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one God and Father. These seven ones are of three groups. The first three can be grouped together, the Spirit with the Body as His expression and the Body related to the one hope... The next three can also be grouped together, the Lord with faith and baptism, that we may be joined to Him. Then we have one God and Father, who is the Originator and source of all. The Spirit as the Executor of the Body, the Son as the Creator of the Body, and God the Father as the Originator of the Body—all three of the Triune God—are related to the Body.

The keeping of the oneness is a matter in the Triune God. This means that the Triune God Himself is the base of our oneness, its fundamental basis and very foundation.... In our experience, however, the Spirit is first because He is directly related to the oneness, to the carrying out of the oneness in the one Body. Following this, we have the Lord as the Accomplisher and the Father as the source. Therefore, our oneness is the Triune God realized and experienced by us in our Christian life.
Pinarello
post Apr 4 2011, 08:00 PM

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Greetings in the name of our Lord Christ Jesus.

Whazzap folks? biggrin.gif
Jellymaker
post Apr 4 2011, 09:22 PM

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QUOTE(Pinarello @ Apr 4 2011, 08:00 PM)
Greetings in the name of our Lord Christ Jesus.

Whazzap folks? biggrin.gif
*
feeling like the world going into revelation chapter...
bibie86
post Apr 4 2011, 09:28 PM

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hello..... smile.gif
mumeichan
post Apr 4 2011, 09:30 PM

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QUOTE(Jellymaker @ Apr 4 2011, 09:22 PM)
feeling like the world going into revelation chapter...
*
According to history the world has been like this since the very beginning. The mass media just want to stir up the 'doomsday' feeling because it's good for business. Although there will be signs before the end of the world, Jesus already said that he will come when people least expect it.
SUSKal-el
post Apr 4 2011, 09:37 PM

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QUOTE(mumeichan @ Apr 4 2011, 09:30 PM)
According to history the world has been like this since the very beginning. The mass media just want to stir up the 'doomsday' feeling because it's good for business. Although there will be signs before the end of the world, Jesus already said that he will come when people least expect it.
*
so always expect him and he will never come.

user posted image
zheyuen
post Apr 4 2011, 09:40 PM

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QUOTE(mumeichan @ Apr 4 2011, 09:30 PM)
According to history the world has been like this since the very beginning. The mass media just want to stir up the 'doomsday' feeling because it's good for business. Although there will be signs before the end of the world, Jesus already said that he will come when people least expect it.
*
yeap agree. the world has been in war and doomsday-like since the beginning.

maybe jesus will only come when everything is peaceful liao. everyone sitting down drinking cup of tea with each other then suddenly Jesus comes and say "hi guys! let's go to heaven!".


ali_xstone
post Apr 4 2011, 09:40 PM

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QUOTE(Kal-el @ Apr 4 2011, 10:37 PM)
so always expect him and he will never come.

user posted image
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SUSKal-el
post Apr 4 2011, 09:41 PM

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QUOTE(zheyuen @ Apr 4 2011, 09:40 PM)
yeap agree. the world has been in war and doomsday-like since the beginning.

maybe jesus will only come when everything is peaceful liao. everyone sitting down drinking cup of tea with each other then suddenly Jesus comes and say "hi guys! let's go to heaven!".
*
can i come... puhleezeeee
Relentless
post Apr 4 2011, 09:44 PM

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Hi there.i'm new here.
how are you all?
i attend Subang Methodist Church , near sunway pyramid)
add me to the list,will ya!
mekboyz
post Apr 4 2011, 09:50 PM

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QUOTE(Relentless @ Apr 4 2011, 09:44 PM)
Hi there.i'm new here.
how are you all?
i attend Subang Methodist Church , near sunway pyramid)
add me to the list,will ya!
*
hi. nice to meet you. what is your religion?
Pinarello
post Apr 4 2011, 09:58 PM

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QUOTE(Jellymaker @ Apr 4 2011, 09:22 PM)
feeling like the world going into revelation chapter...
*
why are we all NOT surprised. lulz.

QUOTE(bibie86 @ Apr 4 2011, 09:28 PM)
hello..... smile.gif
*
oh hai thar. you here too smile.gif

QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 4 2011, 09:50 PM)
hi. nice to meet you. what is your religion?
*
sounds like a trick question to me whistling.gif

This post has been edited by Pinarello: Apr 4 2011, 10:00 PM
leongboyz
post Apr 4 2011, 10:07 PM

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TShappy4ever
post Apr 4 2011, 10:11 PM

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QUOTE(Relentless @ Apr 4 2011, 09:44 PM)
Hi there.i'm new here.
how are you all?
i attend Subang Methodist Church , near sunway pyramid)
add me to the list,will ya!
*
Added liao

QUOTE(leongboyz @ Apr 4 2011, 10:07 PM)
Lipoting in ~ FGA Kuchai Lama
*
Added liao rclxms.gif
leongboyz
post Apr 4 2011, 10:17 PM

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Thanks h4e biggrin.gif
mekboyz
post Apr 4 2011, 10:18 PM

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unker h4e add me to teh list liao. Christian - St Ignatius kelana jaya
Relentless
post Apr 4 2011, 10:33 PM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 4 2011, 09:50 PM)
hi. nice to meet you. what is your religion?
*
Kiddo,fix that insolent behavior of yours
no manners?
do i need to hold your hand,lass?
mekboyz
post Apr 5 2011, 12:41 PM

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QUOTE(Relentless @ Apr 4 2011, 10:33 PM)
Kiddo,fix that insolent behavior of yours
no manners?
do i need to hold your hand,lass?
*
Son, you sound like a devil worshipper! How dare you defile our holy thread with your blasphemies shakehead.gif Anyway I will pray for your heathen soul this sunday at my church.
asdzxc
post Apr 5 2011, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 5 2011, 12:41 PM)
Son, you sound like a devil worshipper! How dare you defile our holy thread with your blasphemies  shakehead.gif Anyway I will pray for your heathen soul this sunday at my church.
*
lulz trolololo
SUSwilsonjay
post Apr 5 2011, 11:21 PM

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dog says grace <3
SUSKal-el
post Apr 5 2011, 11:55 PM

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need backup over here, fast!

http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...&#entry41315553
Pinarello
post Apr 6 2011, 12:05 AM

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QUOTE(Kal-el @ Apr 5 2011, 11:55 PM)
kes need to take to mahkamah agung me thinks............
mekboyz
post Apr 6 2011, 12:06 AM

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QUOTE(Kal-el @ Apr 5 2011, 11:55 PM)
hello you heathen atheist. welcome to our holy christian thread. as you can see imma member here whistling.gif
pehkay
post Apr 6 2011, 10:29 AM

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Galatians 2:19 says, “I…have died to law that I might live to God.” This means that the requirement of the law upon us as sinners is that we should die and that according to that requirement Christ died for us; hence, our obligation under the law, our relationship with the law, was terminated. This makes it possible for us to live to God.

GOOD MEN AND EVIL MEN BOTH LIVING TO THE LAW

The Gentiles, however, who do not believe in God and do not have God, still live to the law. They live to the law because they do not have God, just as those who do not have a car have no choice but to walk. In addition to not knowing God and not having God, they have the evil power of Satan within them that incites them to sin and to do evil. They know that they ought to do good and to stay away from evil, so naturally they establish certain rules and determine principles for human conduct. Although they do not have God and even have Satan within them, as human beings they still have a desire to be good and to do good. In this contradictory situation certainly they will live under the law and attempt to keep the various principles of human conduct under the law. Their hope is to be successful in their attempts to keep the law. They do not think about God; rather, their thoughts are altogether on the law.

Their practice is most displeasing to God because it puts God aside. In their attempts to keep the law in order to be virtuous, well-behaved, and good people, the unbelievers act by themselves and thus put God aside. They do not acknowledge that there is God—they deny the existence of God, yet they try to maintain a high standard of conduct by being very careful in their speech and actions. In this way they put God aside, conducting themselves and trying to do good by themselves. Just as those who sin and do evil, such as robbers, swindlers, and extortioners, are without God and put God aside, so those who are proper, upright, and well-behaved can also be without God and put God aside.

This shows us that some people have fallen into evil and thus have put God aside, while others have fallen into good and thus have also put God aside. In our society there are these two categories of people. One category consists of those who are capable of committing every crime under the sun, including being treacherous, cruel, deceitful, and evil. There is no doubt that such ones have put God aside and that God has no place in them. The other category consists of people who are well-behaved, who conduct themselves properly, who are trustworthy, and who possess high morality yet at the same time vehemently deny the existence of God. Such ones have also put God aside, and God has no place in them.
SUSbananajoe
post Apr 6 2011, 10:50 AM

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mumeichan
post Apr 6 2011, 11:48 AM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Apr 6 2011, 10:29 AM)
Galatians 2:19 says, “I…have died to law that I might live to God.” This means that the requirement of the law upon us as sinners is that we should die and that according to that requirement Christ died for us; hence, our obligation under the law, our relationship with the law, was terminated. This makes it possible for us to live to God.

GOOD MEN AND EVIL MEN BOTH LIVING TO THE LAW

The Gentiles, however, who do not believe in God and do not have God, still live to the law. They live to the law because they do not have God, just as those who do not have a car have no choice but to walk. In addition to not knowing God and not having God, they have the evil power of Satan within them that incites them to sin and to do evil. They know that they ought to do good and to stay away from evil, so naturally they establish certain rules and determine principles for human conduct. Although they do not have God and even have Satan within them, as human beings they still have a desire to be good and to do good. In this contradictory situation certainly they will live under the law and attempt to keep the various principles of human conduct under the law. Their hope is to be successful in their attempts to keep the law. They do not think about God; rather, their thoughts are altogether on the law.

Their practice is most displeasing to God because it puts God aside. In their attempts to keep the law in order to be virtuous, well-behaved, and good people, the unbelievers act by themselves and thus put God aside. They do not acknowledge that there is God—they deny the existence of God, yet they try to maintain a high standard of conduct by being very careful in their speech and actions. In this way they put God aside, conducting themselves and trying to do good by themselves. Just as those who sin and do evil, such as robbers, swindlers, and extortioners, are without God and put God aside, so those who are proper, upright, and well-behaved can also be without God and put God aside.

This shows us that some people have fallen into evil and thus have put God aside, while others have fallen into good and thus have also put God aside. In our society there are these two categories of people. One category consists of those who are capable of committing every crime under the sun, including being treacherous, cruel, deceitful, and evil. There is no doubt that such ones have put God aside and that God has no place in them. The other category consists of people who are well-behaved, who conduct themselves properly, who are trustworthy, and who possess high morality yet at the same time vehemently deny the existence of God. Such ones have also put God aside, and God has no place in them.
*
And there's a third category who accept the existence of God and make no effort to improve their conduct. Let's not forget about this. Besides, I really don't think these kind of message serves much good to Christians and non-Christians alike.

I'm not talking about you, but this reminds me of something a pastor said. He said Christians go out say "I've thing thing with me, the Gospel, the Good News, it hasn't really done anything much for me, but here, I'm offering it to you. Hopefully it'll do something for you." A lot of Christians have this attitude right?

This post has been edited by mumeichan: Apr 6 2011, 11:51 AM
pehkay
post Apr 6 2011, 12:08 PM

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QUOTE(mumeichan @ Apr 6 2011, 11:48 AM)
And there's a third category who accept the existence of God and make no effort to improve their conduct.  Let's not forget about this. Besides, I really don't think these kind of message serves much good to Christians and non-Christians alike.

I'm not talking about you, but this reminds me of something a pastor said. He said Christians go out say "I've thing thing with me, the Gospel, the Good News, it hasn't really done anything much for me, but here, I'm offering it to you. Hopefully it'll do something for you." A lot of Christians have this attitude right?
*
Of course, I am not referring to the initial gospel smile.gif but if it generates statement like 'these kind of message serves much good to Christians and non-Christians alike.' then at least, the passage did its job smile.gif towards Christians who desire to seek deeper truths on Christian experience.

Unfortunately, today, statement like the above is common as we have a "religious" mind ... dividing things between good and evil. My goal is help Christian to know something about God's purpose:

------------------------------------------------------------------
MAN BEING CREATED TO CONTAIN GOD

In the beginning God created man neither to do good nor to do evil. Rather, God created man for His purpose. He wanted man to have fellowship with Him, to be filled with Him, to live in Him, and to be mingled with Him as one entity. Man was created for God as a vessel to contain God (Rom. 9:21, 23). This is similar to a glass being made as a vessel to contain water. It is wrong to put dirty things into the glass, but even if we put gold into it, it is still wrong. This is because the glass was made as a vessel to contain water, not other things.

Human beings were created neither to contain evil nor to contain good. We were created neither to be evil persons nor to be good persons. Then what kind of people should we be? How can a living person do neither evil nor good? Can anyone escape from good and evil? None of us can. A person who is without God cannot escape from good, evil, and death in his life. Only a person who has died does neither good nor evil.

BEING NEITHER GOOD MEN NOR EVIL MEN BUT GOD-MEN

Praise the Lord that those who have God’s life have another choice—to be God-men. As those who have the life of God, we would not do evil, neither would we do good; even the more, we would reject death. We are afraid of good, evil, and death. However, there is One of whom we are not afraid, and not only are we not afraid of Him, but we even desire Him. This One is God. Why do we desire God? It is because God is man’s goal and content, and man was created for God.

In the garden of Eden there were two trees: the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Gen. 2:9). Concerning the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the Bible says that he who eats of it shall surely die (v. 17). When someone eats of this tree, it may seem to be evil, but it is actually death, or it may seem to be good, but in reality it is still death. The issue of evil is death, and the issue of good is also death. These three—good, evil, and death—are inseparable. Then what is the tree of life in the middle of the garden? This tree of life is life itself. What man sees is life, what he eats is life, and the issue of his eating is also life. Who is this life? This life is God Himself.

Please remember that in the garden of Eden the first tree— the tree of life—is God Himself, and the second tree—the tree of the knowledge of good and evil—is good, evil, and death. People on earth who do not have God choose the second tree instead of the first. The result of choosing the second tree is good, evil, and death. They are good men, evil men, and eventually dead men. These three kinds of persons are all in the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Then, as saved ones, are we good men, evil men, or dead men? Praise the Lord, we who have been saved have the life of God in us, so we are God-men.

However, is our real situation like this? Are we God-men in our daily living? This is a big problem. It is very difficult for us to be freed from the law in our human living. We are always turning back to the law, and the law is always following us. Even today, having become Christians, we still cannot easily break away from the law, and instead of living to God, we still live before the law to be people of the law. Although we have been saved and we have God in us, we do not live to God.

As human beings we were created for God Himself. We are vessels to contain God. We should not take good or evil into us; rather, we should take God into us. How can God be put into us? It is by means of the Holy Spirit. The Scriptures tell us clearly that when the Holy Spirit is in us, God is in us (1 John 3:24; 4:13; Rom. 8:9a, 11). What does God want us to do? God wants us to be dead to the law so that we may live to God. Before we were saved, we lived to good and evil; that is, we lived to death. Now that we are saved, we should start learning to live to God. This means that as vessels to contain God according to His purpose in creating man, we should live to God instead of living to the law. We should be neither good men nor evil men but God-men.
---------------------

Hope it help you as it has helped me.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 6 2011, 12:10 PM
TShappy4ever
post Apr 6 2011, 03:41 PM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 4 2011, 10:18 PM)
unker h4e add me to teh list liao. Christian - St Ignatius kelana jaya
*
Rejected.

QUOTE(wilsonjay @ Apr 5 2011, 11:21 PM)


dog says grace <3
*
ah, so cute blush.gif


Added on April 6, 2011, 3:47 pmpehkay, good writeup! happy.gif

This post has been edited by happy4ever: Apr 6 2011, 03:47 PM
debbieyss
post Apr 7 2011, 04:29 PM

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Pehkey, thanks for the detailed explaination, it really enlightens me, pretty much. smile.gif

Anyway, well, I just come in here to post a question. I stumbled at this forum http://www.lawyerment.com.my/boards/topic-...vorce_Law-0.htm

Can someone tell me, or share with me:
1. if these men are predestined to betray their wives, why would God still marry them and their wives in the first place?

2. Would God restore the broken marriages if the wives seek help from God?
TShappy4ever
post Apr 7 2011, 04:53 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 7 2011, 04:29 PM)
Pehkey, thanks for the detailed explaination, it really enlightens me, pretty much. smile.gif

Anyway, well, I just come in here to post a question. I stumbled at this forum http://www.lawyerment.com.my/boards/topic-...vorce_Law-0.htm

Can someone tell me, or share with me:
1. if these men are predestined to betray their wives, why would God still marry them and their wives in the first place?

2. Would God restore the broken marriages if the wives seek help from God?
*
If its predestined to be that way, it would be in that way anyway laugh.gif
debbieyss
post Apr 7 2011, 05:00 PM

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Isn't it pathetic then? God wants us to extend every single request to Him, God says He knows what we want, pray and believe you have received, and it will be given to you, in the end He sends us the wrong person that betrays us and make us broke down in despair.

This post has been edited by debbieyss: Apr 7 2011, 05:01 PM
Pinarello
post Apr 7 2011, 08:25 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 7 2011, 05:00 PM)
Isn't it pathetic then? God wants us to extend every single request to Him, God says He knows what we want, pray and believe you have received, and it will be given to you, in the end He sends us the wrong person that betrays us and make us broke down in despair.
*
In the middle of every difficulty lies an opportunity - Albert Einstien

Don’t find fault. Find a remedy. – Henry Ford

Not really biblical words from the Bible but it just might be God inspired words of wisdom that any person can take.

First of all i believe God wants us to marry the right person for each other. But the choice is up to us. We can ask God who we wana marry, pray about it etc. He may/may not give an answer. If He gives blessed is he/she. If not, He probably wants you to use your own wisdom, maturity and judgment.

God wants us to extend all our hearts content to Him , yes. But He isnt forcing. Its one's choice. Freewill. If God didnt give freewill then we are akin to being under dictatorship by a super-all-mighty leader. Its not God's nature.

Therefore it isnt God that marries two ppl together. He would give a certain degree of blessing (like good finance, children, or good home) but He does not force marriage. Marriage is the mutual agreement between two souls to join together in matrimony (which shud be holy and sacred). Its up to the two individuals. God cannot stop a marriage even He finds it unsuitable because He cannot go against His nature of freewill to let the creations He loves to share life together.

God knows what every person needs and wants. But He cannot possibly force upon someone anything he/she doesnt want, even though it maybe good. Having said that, God isnt really keen to punish those who dont listen to Him. He would watch your steps, and He wouldnt lead you to a dead end. But if one does end up in a dead end, thats where one can ask God (if the person wants) for a solution.

If it is in Gods plan that ones path is slightly narrow, hard, difficult, or painful..........dont find fault. Find a solution. And that can either be turning to God, praying, counseling etc. In the middle of difficulties, lies an opportunity to seek God. I mean, still the choice to seek is up to the person. God doesnt control ones feelings, mind, emotions, decisions. Those are entirely up to the person. Its just that God will always be ready for a change of plans. Its probably like God has even planned to have unplanned plans to plan for unplanned circumstances. In God there isnt a Plan B. I , nor anyone can ever understand how God works coz He's just too big for our tiny minds.

Thats my sharing.

SUSDeadlocks
post Apr 7 2011, 09:58 PM

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As a Christian myself, what if I tell you that aside from reading the Bible, you have to seek and summon your own spirituality to understand what it ALL TRULY means?

Do not fight fire with fire. Those who are victorious are represented by presence and example, not by instant gratification versus instant gratification.

Live, and believe, and you shall be revealed the answers.

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Apr 7 2011, 10:01 PM
TShappy4ever
post Apr 7 2011, 10:05 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 7 2011, 05:00 PM)
Isn't it pathetic then? God wants us to extend every single request to Him, God says He knows what we want, pray and believe you have received, and it will be given to you, in the end He sends us the wrong person that betrays us and make us broke down in despair.
*
Well, not that bad. I mean, come on...God manifested as a human, got broken into pieces, nailed too. Even more despair. You wanna try?
SUSDeadlocks
post Apr 7 2011, 10:12 PM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Apr 7 2011, 10:05 PM)
Well, not that bad. I mean, come on...God manifested as a human, got broken into pieces, nailed too. Even more despair. You wanna try?
*
Many people missed this very important point.

When man is in pain and ask God questions, He did not give answers.

He gave Himself.
debbieyss
post Apr 7 2011, 10:31 PM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Apr 7 2011, 10:05 PM)
Well, not that bad. I mean, come on...God manifested as a human, got broken into pieces, nailed too. Even more despair. You wanna try?
*
If He has paid the debt on our behalf, then why can't He blesses each person who sincerely and genuinely ask for a committed spouse?

Why some have long lasting loving marriage life but some do not?

Why some good christians suffers even though they truly seek guidance beforehand?

I was once thought like "It's not that bad, just move on, etc" but when things really happen on you, you just can't tell yourselves what you ever thought.

This post has been edited by debbieyss: Apr 7 2011, 10:37 PM
mekboyz
post Apr 7 2011, 10:33 PM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Apr 6 2011, 03:41 PM)
Rejected.

*
WTF? y u no add me?! this is against my rights. pls la unker this aint your forum ok. im trying to be a good christian and network with my peers but you aint letting me shakehead.gif
Pinarello
post Apr 7 2011, 11:16 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 7 2011, 10:31 PM)
If He has paid the debt on our behalf, then why can't He blesses each person who sincerely and genuinely ask for a committed spouse?

Why some have long lasting loving marriage life but some do not?

Why some good christians suffers even though they truly seek guidance beforehand?

I was once thought like "It's not that bad, just move on, etc" but when things really happen on you, you just can't tell yourselves what you ever thought.
*
The debt was paid so that our sins can be forgiven and the link between humans and God is restored. Meaning we can have access to His rich blessings and favours etc. It DOESNT guarantee sin/troubles/grief/bad stuffs WILL be removed permanently, as long as we are here in this sinful troublesome earth. Thats obstacle no.1

The other obstacle is the devil aka Mr S.A.Tan who just wants to steal kill and destroy lives. Thats obstacle no.2

He wants to bless everyone YES. You are right here. But not everyone has asked. So He wont force a blessing on anyone. I want to bless you with a really nice dinner, but you dont want to eat. So it cannot be forced though it is good. God respects ppls choice.

And those who asked , some get it. Good then. Some dont get? God said that His grace is more than sufficient for our needs. If you dont get what you asked, still those who surrender under God's mighty hands are covered by His grace still to get tru the bad times. Why sometimes God doesnt give what ppl asked for? This is something nobody can answer except God Himself. But His reasons are always with a purpose. Are we to just believe in God JUST SO we can get all the blessings? I think God has something higher for us than just living with blessings. He wants us to live EMPOWERED to do great and mighty stuff. That is the core of Gods purpose. The blessings are just side bonuses if you will.

Why good christians suffer? Coz we are all in the same wicked and sinful earth. We are not immune. The only place we wont suffer is in heaven.

The vision God has for everyone is far greater than many will think/see. But alot of the times, even christians together and non christians see what is in front of their eyes, or what is predominantly on their minds.

If you really want to know what God actually wants from us or wants us to do, i can only share these few verses :

Matthew 22:36-40 (The Message)

The Most Important Command
34-36When the Pharisees heard how he had bested the Sadducees, they gathered their forces for an assault. One of their religion scholars spoke for them, posing a question they hoped would show him up: "Teacher, which command in God's Law is the most important?"

37-40Jesus said, "'Love the Lord your God with all your passion and prayer and intelligence.' This is the most important, the first on any list. But there is a second to set alongside it: 'Love others as well as you love yourself.' These two commands are pegs; everything in God's Law and the Prophets hangs from them."


Matthew 28:16-20 (The Message)

16-17Meanwhile, the eleven disciples were on their way to Galilee, headed for the mountain Jesus had set for their reunion. The moment they saw him they worshiped him. Some, though, held back, not sure about worship, about risking themselves totally.

18-20Jesus, undeterred, went right ahead and gave his charge: "God authorized and commanded me to commission you: Go out and train everyone you meet, far and near, in this way of life, marking them by baptism in the threefold name: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Then instruct them in the practice of all I have commanded you. I'll be with you as you do this, day after day after day, right up to the end of the age."



ymc2303
post Apr 7 2011, 11:21 PM

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Joined: Oct 2009
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 7 2011, 10:33 PM)
WTF? y u no add me?! this is against my rights. pls la unker this aint your forum ok. im trying to be a good christian and network with my peers but you aint letting me  shakehead.gif
*
u r so un-christian now.. shakehead.gif
mekboyz
post Apr 7 2011, 11:24 PM

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Joined: Apr 2007
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QUOTE(ymc2303 @ Apr 7 2011, 11:21 PM)
u r so un-christian now.. shakehead.gif
*
you are not my lord and saviour and shepard. please dont judge me or you shall be cast into hell. lett he who is not withouteth sin casteth the first stoneth

This post has been edited by mekboyz: Apr 7 2011, 11:24 PM
unknown warrior
post Apr 7 2011, 11:25 PM

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Joined: Jul 2005
QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 7 2011, 11:24 PM)
you are not my lord and saviour and shepard. please dont judge me or you shall be cast into hell. lett he who is not withouteth sin casteth the first stoneth
*
You're doing it all wrong. doh.gif
Robin Hood
post Apr 7 2011, 11:31 PM

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From: sunny bikini yard


QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 7 2011, 10:31 PM)
If He has paid the debt on our behalf, then why can't He blesses each person who sincerely and genuinely ask for a committed spouse?

Why some have long lasting loving marriage life but some do not?

Why some good christians suffers even though they truly seek guidance beforehand?

I was once thought like "It's not that bad, just move on, etc" but when things really happen on you, you just can't tell yourselves what you ever thought.
*
spouse problem?? and you hoping god would actually gives a response?

its kindda absurd dont you agree considering how many ppl around the globe suffered more serious problems,.. famine, deceases etc that leads death to some of the love 1. and now you having problem with god because of some relationship problem?


thken
post Apr 8 2011, 12:00 AM

keep walking
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Senior Member
938 posts

Joined: Aug 2008
From: where I belong to....


i got a question here:

isnt that the 10 commandment has been fulfill by Jesus?

therefore we dont just obey for the sake of obeying God's law but instead obeying it because Jesus had died for us? which is also means that Jesus told us to obey the 10 commandments therefore we should do it?

1 of the example which is the 4th 1. the sabbath. actually we no need to go church on saturday, instead we gather on sunday. so actually means that Jesus had been fulfilled this commandments, therefore we need to obey the other 9 to show our love to God?

This post has been edited by thken: Apr 8 2011, 12:00 AM
Jellymaker
post Apr 8 2011, 12:39 AM

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Joined: May 2008
From: earth
QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 7 2011, 10:31 PM)
If He has paid the debt on our behalf, then why can't He blesses each person who sincerely and genuinely ask for a committed spouse?

Why some have long lasting loving marriage life but some do not?

Why some good christians suffers even though they truly seek guidance beforehand?

I was once thought like "It's not that bad, just move on, etc" but when things really happen on you, you just can't tell yourselves what you ever thought.
*
try reading about Job. You're not alone.
Pinarello
post Apr 8 2011, 12:45 AM

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150 posts

Joined: Jan 2008
From: KL


QUOTE(thken @ Apr 8 2011, 12:00 AM)
i got a question here:

isnt that the 10 commandment has been fulfill by Jesus?

therefore we dont just obey for the sake of obeying God's law but instead obeying it because Jesus had died for us? which is also means that Jesus told us to obey the 10 commandments therefore we should do it?

1 of the example which is the 4th 1. the sabbath. actually we no need to go church on saturday, instead we gather on sunday. so actually means that Jesus had been fulfilled this commandments,  therefore we need to obey the other 9 to show our love to God?
*
The 10 commandments were Laws written because ppl in the time before Jesus came only know how to obey instructions by rules and written guidelines. Thats why God had to write it down so the Israelites could read and understand them. It was the only way to keep them from sinning and to obey Gods commands.

When Jesus came, He came as the sacrifice for anyone who broke those laws, and therefore completing/fulfilling them from start to end (life to death) (Not just the 10, but all of Gods laws) (Penalty of sinning against Gods laws is death). We obey because we have opened our eyes and seen that its good to obey some good common sense that God has for us or else we will be like sheep without a shepherd.

The 4th commandment was to keep the sabbath day holy (means to honour a special day for God as He has determined). In the old days its saturday. Nowdays its sunday (popularly). But it doesnt mean we cannot have church on saturday. We can. Just what God means was keep one day of the weekend for Him to gather as a church, worship praise and listen to Gods word together. The purpose of sunday/saturday church is to GATHER TOGETHER and WORSHIP + LISTEN to Gods Word and experience Him deeper.

So it shud be we love God so much that when we are filled in our hearts with Gods love, and the Holy Spirit, it will be natural to follow His commandments. The Holy Spirit has a nature of being righteous. This is our conscience. NOT we obey the commandments to show God we love Him. Its different. But because our sinful body and mind still has the potential to sin, therefore sometimes its good to read these laws as reminders. Not to condem ourselves or use it to judge others.

So if you ask. SHOULD WE? Yes we should.

But it is humanly impossible and i dare say no Christian can ever keep all of Gods law. Simply coz we have a sinners nature in us all (passed by Adam n Eve). If we sin we die (Die as in our spirit will be destroyed in hell, seperated from God forever). Christ died so that His blood can wash our sins. God see's Christ blood as the only thing able to redeem all sins. And the only way to receive Christ blood is by believing in His death and resurrection on the cross.

To receive Christ blood is to be forgiven. Once forgiven , we are empowered with many things to do according to Gods purposes.
SUSDeadlocks
post Apr 8 2011, 12:56 AM

n00b
*****
Senior Member
943 posts

Joined: Apr 2008
From: Petaling Jaya, Selangor, Malaysia.


To those who think God is being unfair to them.

Listen.

Until you understood the meaning of pain and sadness, you will never understand the importance of happiness.

The universe is created in such a way that pain is an inevitable prerequisite, so much so as to give new meanings to those who overcome it.

Because if pain is so unbearable, I tell you the truth.

Happiness is not what you're getting usually, but rather, it is in abundance.

It is painful I know.

You ask questions.

You complain.

And what did God do?

He did not answer your questions.

He gave no answers.

Instead, he gave Himself...that inevitably leads Him to the cross.

Do y'all understand that you may be asking the wrong questions?

When you asked, why let me suffer the pain?

He did not give you answers. He gave Himself, and my goodness, how much pain has he given unto Himself.

Not only did He suffered, but He ACTUALLY DIED.

Wouldn't that be the saddest way to answer of painful questions about our problems?

You bet it does.

But I suppose y'all know the story.

The Resurrection. It changes everything. Pain and Death was faced, and defeated utterly.

The pain and happiness network and algorithms that God created is so bizarre that even one with full wisdom about pain will experience pain. The only reassurance right here is for wisdom to enlightened within us, to tell us that happiness exist in all of these pain, except that it MUST go through the process of pain.

One exception. Only those who are completely enlightened with pure wisdom, can actually experience happiness all year round, with minimal pain in life, unlike most people. But if we do not possess such wisdom, then you BETTER LOVE the HARD WAY than TAKING THE EASY WAY OUT.

Such is the system between pain and joy. Remember the story of one who owes more money than the other person. When the creditor decided that both do not need to pay their debts anymore, who will the one with the most joy? The one who owes the most money, i.e the most pain.

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Apr 8 2011, 12:56 AM
SUSWholesome Christian
post Apr 8 2011, 01:06 AM

New Member
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Joined: Dec 2010
having evil thoughts is not satan telling us what to do, its just jekyll and hyde bickering.

and having a religion is like having a phony lucky charm. another way of putting it, when a bear was spotted in springfield, a bear patrol was initiated.

homer: ahhh, not a bear in sight. the bear patrol must be working like a charm.

lisa: thats specious reasoning, dad.

homer: thank you honey.

lisa: (picking up a rock) by your logic, i could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.

homer: ooo, how does it work?

lisa: it doenst work, its just a stupid rock. but i dont see any tigers around here, do you?

homer: lisa, i want to buy your rock.


debbieyss
post Apr 8 2011, 01:11 AM

Look at all my stars! I want to be a SUPERSTAR!
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Joined: Nov 2008
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(Pinarello @ Apr 7 2011, 11:16 PM)
The other obstacle is the devil aka Mr S.A.Tan who just wants to steal kill and destroy lives. Thats obstacle no.2
*
The one who steal, kill and destroy is not Satan. Read the whole chapter of it and you will see. At first I also thought the same but it actually is not. smile.gif
debbieyss
post Apr 8 2011, 01:13 AM

Look at all my stars! I want to be a SUPERSTAR!
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Joined: Nov 2008
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(Robin Hood @ Apr 7 2011, 11:31 PM)
spouse problem?? and you hoping god would actually gives a response?

its kindda absurd dont you agree considering how many ppl around the globe suffered more serious problems,.. famine, deceases etc that leads death to some of the love 1. and now you having problem with god because of some relationship problem?
*
No. I don't think this is absurd to consider betraying spouse is hurtful. When you actually sacrifice yourselves, time, efforts, you genuinely work on it for so many years but in the end he betrays you.
thken
post Apr 8 2011, 01:17 AM

keep walking
*****
Senior Member
938 posts

Joined: Aug 2008
From: where I belong to....


QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Apr 8 2011, 12:56 AM)
To those who think God is being unfair to them.

Listen.

Until you understood the meaning of pain and sadness, you will never understand the importance of happiness.

The universe is created in such a way that pain is an inevitable prerequisite, so much so as to give new meanings to those who overcome it.

Because if pain is so unbearable, I tell you the truth.

Happiness is not what you're getting usually, but rather, it is in abundance.

It is painful I know.

You ask questions.

You complain.

And what did God do?

He did not answer your questions.

He gave no answers.

Instead, he gave Himself...that inevitably leads Him to the cross.

Do y'all understand that you may be asking the wrong questions?

When you asked, why let me suffer the pain?

He did not give you answers. He gave Himself, and my goodness, how much pain has he given unto Himself.

Not only did He suffered, but He ACTUALLY DIED.

Wouldn't that be the saddest way to answer of painful questions about our problems?

You bet it does.

But I suppose y'all know the story.

The Resurrection. It changes everything. Pain and Death was faced, and defeated utterly.

The pain and happiness network and algorithms that God created is so bizarre that even one with full wisdom about pain will experience pain. The only reassurance right here is for wisdom to enlightened within us, to tell us that happiness exist in all of these pain, except that it MUST go through the process of pain.

One exception. Only those who are completely enlightened with pure wisdom, can actually experience happiness all year round, with minimal pain in life, unlike most people. But if we do not possess such wisdom, then you BETTER LOVE the HARD WAY than TAKING THE EASY WAY OUT.

Such is the system between pain and joy. Remember the story of one who owes more money than the other person. When the creditor decided that both do not need to pay their debts anymore, who will the one with the most joy? The one who owes the most money, i.e the most pain.
*
i understand what are you trying to say but different people sadness differ from each another, same goes to happiness. people blame God for their own reason, even me, i often blame God when i'm sad or in the midst of failure, but also praise God when i'm happy

happiness has its own meaning for every searching heart.

when it comes to pain, although our feeling towards pain maybe the same, but it also depends how people deal with it, some blame God but do nothing, some will find some entertainment to cure it, some waits for the opportunity to turns things back to normal, and some just wait time to cure it

but for me, i found out that i dont need any painful experience to pursuit happiness, i'm happy as long there is nothing bothering me..but too bad, many unlucky things happen to me recently eg: studies, time management, forever alone problems. but do i need to go though this to experience happiness? for me i dont think so

This post has been edited by thken: Apr 8 2011, 01:22 AM
thken
post Apr 8 2011, 01:21 AM

keep walking
*****
Senior Member
938 posts

Joined: Aug 2008
From: where I belong to....


QUOTE(Pinarello @ Apr 8 2011, 12:45 AM)
The 10 commandments were Laws written because ppl in the time before Jesus came only know how to obey instructions by rules and written guidelines. Thats why God had to write it down so the Israelites could read and understand them. It was the only way to keep them from sinning and to obey Gods commands.

When Jesus came, He came as the sacrifice for anyone who broke those laws, and therefore completing/fulfilling them from start to end (life to death) (Not just the 10, but all of Gods laws) (Penalty of sinning against Gods laws is death). We obey because we have opened our eyes and seen that its good to obey some good common sense that God has for us or else we will be like sheep without a shepherd.

The 4th commandment was to keep the sabbath day holy (means to honour a special day for God as He has determined). In the old days its saturday. Nowdays its sunday (popularly). But it doesnt mean we cannot have church on saturday. We can. Just what God means was keep one day of the weekend for Him to gather as a church, worship praise and listen to Gods word together. The purpose of sunday/saturday church is to GATHER TOGETHER and WORSHIP + LISTEN to Gods Word and experience Him deeper.

So it shud be we love God so much that when we are filled in our hearts with Gods love, and the Holy Spirit, it will be natural to follow His commandments. The Holy Spirit has a nature of being righteous. This is our conscience. NOT we obey the commandments to show God we love Him. Its different. But because our sinful body and mind still has the potential to sin, therefore sometimes its good to read these laws as reminders. Not to condem ourselves or use it to judge others.

So if you ask. SHOULD WE? Yes we should.

But it is humanly impossible and i dare say no Christian can ever keep all of Gods law. Simply coz we have a sinners nature in us all (passed by Adam n Eve). If we sin we die (Die as in our spirit will be destroyed in hell, seperated from God forever). Christ died so that His blood can wash our sins. God see's Christ blood as the only thing able to redeem all sins. And the only way to receive Christ blood is by believing in His death and resurrection on the cross.

To receive Christ blood is to be forgiven. Once forgiven , we are empowered with many things to do according to Gods purposes.
*
yea, quite a helpful reply
TShappy4ever
post Apr 8 2011, 03:05 AM

(✿◠‿◠) Queen of Love ⎝⏠⏝⏠⎠
*******
Senior Member
7,194 posts

Joined: Jun 2005
From: Sanctuary of Paradise


QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 7 2011, 10:31 PM)
If He has paid the debt on our behalf, then why can't He blesses each person who sincerely and genuinely ask for a committed spouse?

Why some have long lasting loving marriage life but some do not?

Why some good christians suffers even though they truly seek guidance beforehand?

I was once thought like "It's not that bad, just move on, etc" but when things really happen on you, you just can't tell yourselves what you ever thought.
*
When you put steel through the furnace, it burns. The process is painful and tiresome. But the finish product is nice refined steel, beautiful and useful for God's purpose.
Look at how Moses himself went through the wilderness before leading the Jews.
Man/Woman by default are fallible. Through pruning, are we able to be refined like the beautiful trees and shrubs, pleasing and fruitful.

Also, being a Christian, we also must face persecution. Suffer for the Lord. And when we overcome it through Christ, our blessings would be 10fold! And from there, we bless others. smile.gif

QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 7 2011, 10:33 PM)
WTF? y u no add me?! this is against my rights. pls la unker this aint your forum ok. im trying to be a good christian and network with my peers but you aint letting me  shakehead.gif
*
oh so kesian.... now now dont cry wub.gif i sayang u bek... oohh oohh.

QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 7 2011, 11:24 PM)
you are not my lord and saviour and shepard. please dont judge me or you shall be cast into hell. lett he who is not withouteth sin casteth the first stoneth
*
No worry, for the stone is sinless, and shall casteth itself onto your loins with great might, shattering the the eggs of man with mighty splendor. My hand's just a leverage. Not my doing whistling.gif

This post has been edited by happy4ever: Apr 8 2011, 03:06 AM
TShappy4ever
post Apr 8 2011, 03:23 AM

(✿◠‿◠) Queen of Love ⎝⏠⏝⏠⎠
*******
Senior Member
7,194 posts

Joined: Jun 2005
From: Sanctuary of Paradise


QUOTE(thken @ Apr 8 2011, 12:00 AM)
i got a question here:

isnt that the 10 commandment has been fulfill by Jesus?

therefore we dont just obey for the sake of obeying God's law but instead obeying it because Jesus had died for us? which is also means that Jesus told us to obey the 10 commandments therefore we should do it?

1 of the example which is the 4th 1. the sabbath. actually we no need to go church on saturday, instead we gather on sunday. so actually means that Jesus had been fulfilled this commandments,  therefore we need to obey the other 9 to show our love to God?
*
We also have to realize that moral laws still need to be observed. Not written law, but law thats edged into our hearts.

Faith without works is useless. So when you have salvation through faith, work it out.

Sabbatth is for us to rest and reflect. Thats all. Doing too much of anything is bad, even church work. Its time to spend at least a day in a week to have quality time with family and with God.
SUSDeadlocks
post Apr 8 2011, 07:29 AM

n00b
*****
Senior Member
943 posts

Joined: Apr 2008
From: Petaling Jaya, Selangor, Malaysia.


QUOTE(thken @ Apr 8 2011, 01:17 AM)
i understand what are you trying to say but different people sadness differ from each another, same goes to happiness. people blame God for their own reason, even me, i often blame God when i'm sad or in the midst of failure, but also praise God when i'm happy

happiness has its own meaning for every searching heart.

when it comes to pain, although our feeling towards pain maybe the same, but it also depends how people deal with it, some blame God but do nothing, some will find some entertainment to cure it, some waits for the opportunity to turns things back to normal, and some just wait time to cure it

but for me, i found out that i dont need any painful experience to pursuit happiness, i'm happy as long there is nothing bothering me..but too bad, many unlucky things happen to me recently eg: studies, time management, forever alone problems. but do i need to go though this to experience happiness? for me i dont think so
*
You don't need to be sad to have happiness. You NEED to understand what "SAD"/SADNESS really means, to know what it means to be happy.

Go ahead. Blame God all you want to. But know that regardless of how much you blame Him, He still continues to give you.

How can you turn your back on him on that particular time? You think it's His fault?
debbieyss
post Apr 8 2011, 09:19 AM

Look at all my stars! I want to be a SUPERSTAR!
*******
Senior Member
4,458 posts

Joined: Nov 2008
From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Apr 8 2011, 07:29 AM)
You don't need to be sad to have happiness. You NEED to understand what "SAD"/SADNESS really means, to know what it means to be happy.

Go ahead. Blame God all you want to. But know that regardless of how much you blame Him, He still continues to give you.

How can you turn your back on him on that particular time? You think it's His fault?
*
I know your reply doesn't refer to me but I would like to share my view.

I never blame God for what had happened to me, big problem or small problem. All I do is through prayer, move His hand to restore things to be better.

The thing is when things don't turn out after you have put your faith in, but more and more problems coming out, you might wonder if it's God's will, and you might wonder if your prayers are not pleasing, or something wrong with your prayers. And whenever you see your christian fellows, or even non-christians, getting what they want, you might want to do something and ask from God giving you the same. Please take note, things that I refer to now is not straight As in SPM or STPM or CGPA or entering which top Uni or big company, I'm merely asking for a simple family. That's all.

If you did trace back the post I shared a little bit earlier on, check out the website and see how many women out there, faithfully and genuinely loving their husbands, having intimate relationship since their dating stage but out of a sudden, after 5 years of marriage, their husbands have affair with another women, some husbands even shifted out and left the children behind.

If this husband is predestined to betray the wife, why would God allows them to get married? Have you seen people who face too much of stress and disappointments and in the end they cry fainted and go insane?

I would rather my life go simple, than to have a very blessed and wonderful beginning but in the end huge disappointment, like a huge rock drops on your body.

The higher you have faith in something, the painful you feel. Some people who are proud and stubborn, little bit of failure will boost up their motivation to grow, but to those who are having simple life all along, these disappointments are just too much for them to bear, which is not helpful in moulding a person's life.
eXyzt
post Apr 8 2011, 09:51 AM

Regular
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Senior Member
1,410 posts

Joined: Jan 2005
From: Kay El


QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 8 2011, 09:19 AM)
I know your reply doesn't refer to me but I would like to share my view.

I never blame God for what had happened to me, big problem or small problem. All I do is through prayer, move His hand to restore things to be better.

The thing is when things don't turn out after you have put your faith in, but more and more problems coming out, you might wonder if it's God's will, and you might wonder if your prayers are not pleasing, or something wrong with your prayers. And whenever you see your christian fellows, or even non-christians, getting what they want, you might want to do something and ask from God giving you the same. Please take note, things that I refer to now is not straight As in SPM or STPM or CGPA or entering which top Uni or big company, I'm merely asking for a simple family. That's all.

If you did trace back the post I shared a little bit earlier on, check out the website and see how many women out there, faithfully and genuinely loving their husbands, having intimate relationship since their dating stage but out of a sudden, after 5 years of marriage, their husbands have affair with another women, some husbands even shifted out and left the children behind.

If this husband is predestined to betray the wife, why would God allows them to get married? Have you seen people who face too much of stress and disappointments and in the end they cry fainted and go insane?

I would rather my life go simple, than to have a very blessed and wonderful beginning but in the end huge disappointment, like a huge rock drops on your body.

The higher you have faith in something, the painful you feel. Some people who are proud and stubborn, little bit of failure will boost up their motivation to grow, but to those who are having simple life all along, these disappointments are just too much for them to bear, which is not helpful in moulding a person's life.
*
First of all, keep in mind that salvation means we are free of the penalty of sin. After salvation, we have to work to be free from the power of sin.

So whether you are single or married, we will still be tempted with lust. Husbands are not predestined to betray their wife. It's their choice.

Remember free will. It's like you know your best friend is dating a jerk. You can advise her all you want but if she chooses to marry him, that's up to her. God works in the same way. He shows you and guides you away from the bad stuff. If you choose to ignore Him and still do it, that's up to you.

So with regards to marriage, whoever you choose to marry is your own choice. God won't stop you. If you happen to marry an unfaithful person, you will have to live with the consequences. That's why also in the Bible, we are discouraged from marrying non-believers. Not that they are bad, but our faith might be jeopardized.

That's why I like my pastor's advice: When you are dating, look with both eyes open wide. Whe you are married, keep one eye close. Dating is when you evaluate whether you want to spend the rest of your life with that person. Marriage is living with him/her and working to make the relationship work.
TShappy4ever
post Apr 8 2011, 10:33 AM

(✿◠‿◠) Queen of Love ⎝⏠⏝⏠⎠
*******
Senior Member
7,194 posts

Joined: Jun 2005
From: Sanctuary of Paradise


QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 8 2011, 09:19 AM)
I know your reply doesn't refer to me but I would like to share my view.

I never blame God for what had happened to me, big problem or small problem. All I do is through prayer, move His hand to restore things to be better.

The thing is when things don't turn out after you have put your faith in, but more and more problems coming out, you might wonder if it's God's will, and you might wonder if your prayers are not pleasing, or something wrong with your prayers. And whenever you see your christian fellows, or even non-christians, getting what they want, you might want to do something and ask from God giving you the same. Please take note, things that I refer to now is not straight As in SPM or STPM or CGPA or entering which top Uni or big company, I'm merely asking for a simple family. That's all.

If you did trace back the post I shared a little bit earlier on, check out the website and see how many women out there, faithfully and genuinely loving their husbands, having intimate relationship since their dating stage but out of a sudden, after 5 years of marriage, their husbands have affair with another women, some husbands even shifted out and left the children behind.

If this husband is predestined to betray the wife, why would God allows them to get married?
Have you seen people who face too much of stress and disappointments and in the end they cry fainted and go insane?

I would rather my life go simple, than to have a very blessed and wonderful beginning but in the end huge disappointment, like a huge rock drops on your body.

The higher you have faith in something, the painful you feel. Some people who are proud and stubborn, little bit of failure will boost up their motivation to grow, but to those who are having simple life all along, these disappointments are just too much for them to bear, which is not helpful in moulding a person's life.
*
If it has been predestined, would God go against it and change the predestination? Its an oxymoron situation.


QUOTE(eXyzt @ Apr 8 2011, 09:51 AM)
First of all, keep in mind that salvation means we are free of the penalty of sin. After salvation, we have to work to be free from the power of sin.

So whether you are single or married, we will still be tempted with lust. Husbands are not predestined to betray their wife. It's their choice.

Remember free will. It's like you know your best friend is dating a jerk. You can advise her all you want but if she chooses to marry him, that's up to her. God works in the same way. He shows you and guides you away from the bad stuff. If you choose to ignore Him and still do it, that's up to you.

So with regards to marriage, whoever you choose to marry is your own choice. God won't stop you. If you happen to marry an unfaithful person, you will have to live with the consequences. That's why also in the Bible, we are discouraged from marrying non-believers. Not that they are bad, but our faith might be jeopardized.

That's why I like my pastor's advice: When you are dating, look with both eyes open wide. Whe you are married, keep one eye close. Dating is when you evaluate whether you want to spend the rest of your life with that person. Marriage is living with him/her and working to make the relationship work.
*
Free will, regardless of the degree of freedom, is still already made known beforehand.

Hence predestination. God is beyond space and time. Thus past present future converge into one spot. All of the future is already made known. So whatever happens, free will/choice etc are already determined.

Nothing that you decide, no matter how adhoc, can surprise God, yes?

mekboyz
post Apr 8 2011, 10:41 AM

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akshelli i was a former christian. true story. then i became an atheist. I used to go to DUMC play games & sing song when i was a 2". i remember once we had this sticker game about jesus and the cross. then my youth leader was telling us how jesus died for our sins. then i asked him how come because we werent born that time so what sins did i do. Also, if we dont sin then doesnt that mean jesus died for nothing?
TShappy4ever
post Apr 8 2011, 10:53 AM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 8 2011, 10:41 AM)
akshelli i was a former christian. true story. then i became an atheist. I used to go to DUMC play games & sing song when i was a 2". i remember once we had this sticker game about jesus and the cross. then my youth leader was telling us how jesus died for our sins. then i asked him how come because we werent born that time so what sins did i do. Also, if we dont sin then doesnt that mean jesus died for nothing?
*
You are already under the penalty of sin by default.

No one can be sinless too.
pehkay
post Apr 8 2011, 10:59 AM

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QUOTE(thken @ Apr 8 2011, 12:00 AM)
i got a question here:

isnt that the 10 commandment has been fulfill by Jesus?

therefore we dont just obey for the sake of obeying God's law but instead obeying it because Jesus had died for us? which is also means that Jesus told us to obey the 10 commandments therefore we should do it?

1 of the example which is the 4th 1. the sabbath. actually we no need to go church on saturday, instead we gather on sunday. so actually means that Jesus had been fulfilled this commandments,  therefore we need to obey the other 9 to show our love to God?
*
This is a handful question ...

Since man ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, which signifies Satan, Satan's nature entered into man. This nature incites and stirs up man to endeavor to do good that he may please God. This becomes a vice of the fallen sinner. Some may be shocked upon hearing this, thinking that all religionists exhort and encourage people to do good, and they may wonder why I say that man's desire to do good is incited by Satan. Parents like to encourage their children to do good, and even you yourself have an inner desire to do good. Is it good or bad to determine to do good and to encourage others to do good? From man's standpoint, it is good. Today's society everywhere encourages people to do good. As far as human society is concerned, this is good, but as far as the accomplishing of God's economy is concerned, this is not good and is something against God.

God's intention in His economy is to accomplish a goal, that is, for the Divine Trinity to gain man to be His organism. God's economy is not to work out man's goodness; to work out man's goodness is something of God's enemy. Human goodness is God's enemy. What God wants is to have an organism that lives out God to express God, manifest God, and be joined with God as one. Such a living organism is what God wants. From the viewpoint of God's economy, for man to do good is for man to be in enmity with God.

Before the law was given, God first gave man a sweet promise; He promised the fallen sinner that the seed of woman would come. This seed of woman would destroy the enemy, the serpent, who had damaged man. The seed of woman would become man's righteousness and man's salvation. Prior to His coming, however, man would neither believe nor receive Him. Therefore, God had to decree His law to man. The law was not there in the origination of God's economy. It was added because of man's transgressions, while God's economy was proceeding (Gal. 3:19). Due to man's fall and his not knowing himself, God was forced to insert, to add, the law. To add implies that something was not there originally. The law was not there originally but was added later in order to expose man's real condition and true nature and thus show man the true picture of himself.

The Law of God Being a Portrait and Testimony of God

The law of God is a portrait and testimony of God. In Romans 7 Paul says that the law is holy and spiritual and the commandment is holy, righteous, and good (vv. 12, 14). The law is good, holy, and spiritual, yet even so, it is only a portrait, a "photo" of God. The law describes to us what kind of God He is, what kind of image He bears, and what kind of attributes He possesses. Hence, the law as God's portrait is called "the testimony" of God in the Old Testament (Exo. 32:15; Psa. 78:5). God's portrait, God's description, is God's testimony. Your photo is your testimony. When you give me a picture of yourself, you testify to me what kind of person you are. The moment I look at the picture, I know what kind of person you are. Similarly, the law is a portrait and testimony of God. When we see the law of God, we know what kind of God He is.



mekboyz
post Apr 8 2011, 11:00 AM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Apr 8 2011, 10:53 AM)
You are already under the penalty of sin by default.

No one can be sinless too.
*
but if everyone is already a sinner then who is gonna be able to enter into heaven? hmm.gif
TShappy4ever
post Apr 8 2011, 11:04 AM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 8 2011, 11:00 AM)
but if everyone is already a sinner then who is gonna be able to enter into heaven?  hmm.gif
*
Those that accept Christ, which from God's grace has given us, and believe through faith.
pehkay
post Apr 8 2011, 11:05 AM

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To continue: biggrin.gif

It Being Impossible for Sinners to Fulfill the Requirements of God's Law

The law, therefore, exposes our condition, showing us that it is impossible for sinners to fulfill the requirements of God's law. Although man cannot do good, he desires and wills to do good. Actually, man's condition is that he does not care for God; rather, he cares for things other than God. He does not take God as his satisfaction nor takes what God has accomplished as his enjoyment and rest; rather, he wants to strive by himself and bear the burdens alone. Today people have fallen into a condition of hatred, murder, and fornication. Today people commit fornication like those at the time of Sodom.

Since man's condition is such, God considers His law, His reality, as His requirements upon sinners. It is as if He says to man who desires to do good, "These are My requirements. Do you want to do good? Go ahead! If you can work out all the Ten Commandments, I will justify you." According to Romans 7, it seems that Paul was able to work out the first nine commandments, but he was not able to work out the last commandment concerning not coveting. The law of God makes it impossible for sinners to fulfill the requirements of God, because God's law is for the purpose of exposing man. It cannot give life (Gal. 3:21). The law as a "photo" is good, but it does not have life. Furthermore, there is something that the law cannot do, in that it is weak through the flesh of sinners (Rom. 8:3a). The law itself is not weak, but the flesh of man that tries to work out the law is weak, so the law became weak and impotent.

The Law of God Being Able Only to Expose Man's Sinful Nature and Wicked Deeds

Since the law cannot give life and is impotent, being weak through the flesh of sinners, why did God add the law? The law of God was added for the purpose of exposing man's inward, sinful nature and his outward, wicked deeds (Rom. 3:20b; 5:20a). We have violated every one of the Ten Commandments. The law is a mirror. When we stand before the mirror of the law, we all are exposed.

The Law of God Becoming the Custodian and Child-conductor of God's Chosen People to Bring Them to Christ-Grace

Nevertheless, the law of God has a positive function in God's hand. The law has become the custodian and child-conductor of God's chosen people to bring them to Christ-grace (Gal. 3:23-24). God's chosen people were shut up and guarded under the law, just like sheep being kept in the sheepfold (John 10:1, 16). In His economy God used the law as a sheepfold to keep His elect in custody until Christ came. The law was able only to demand and condemn; it could not give life. There is no life in the law; there are only commandments. Life is in Christ. He is the life-giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45b), the only One who is able to give life. When we are under law, we are just like children, and we need the law to be the custodian and child-conductor watching over us. This kind of watching over is not with an evil intention; it is for our protection. Hence, this custodian becomes our child-conductor, and this child-conductor brings us to Christ. Today Christ as the life-giving Spirit is the grace that we enjoy. When Christ comes, grace comes. He became flesh and was full of grace, and of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. Now we are no longer children under the custody of the law. Rather, through our faith in Christ Jesus we have become children of God to enjoy Him as our grace.
thken
post Apr 8 2011, 07:03 PM

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» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


hmm, it takes time for me to understand the whole thing LOL, although i'm still not fully understand this, but will save it in my pc for future reference. anyway thanks for spending time for this article
debbieyss
post Apr 8 2011, 07:49 PM

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Hi pehkay, I have finished reading your essay and understood it.

Would you like to answer my questions as stated above? wink.gif
SUSDeadlocks
post Apr 8 2011, 09:33 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 8 2011, 09:19 AM)
I know your reply doesn't refer to me but I would like to share my view.

I never blame God for what had happened to me, big problem or small problem. All I do is through prayer, move His hand to restore things to be better.

The thing is when things don't turn out after you have put your faith in, but more and more problems coming out, you might wonder if it's God's will, and you might wonder if your prayers are not pleasing, or something wrong with your prayers. And whenever you see your christian fellows, or even non-christians, getting what they want, you might want to do something and ask from God giving you the same. Please take note, things that I refer to now is not straight As in SPM or STPM or CGPA or entering which top Uni or big company, I'm merely asking for a simple family. That's all.

If you did trace back the post I shared a little bit earlier on, check out the website and see how many women out there, faithfully and genuinely loving their husbands, having intimate relationship since their dating stage but out of a sudden, after 5 years of marriage, their husbands have affair with another women, some husbands even shifted out and left the children behind.

If this husband is predestined to betray the wife, why would God allows them to get married? Have you seen people who face too much of stress and disappointments and in the end they cry fainted and go insane?

I would rather my life go simple, than to have a very blessed and wonderful beginning but in the end huge disappointment, like a huge rock drops on your body.

The higher you have faith in something, the painful you feel. Some people who are proud and stubborn, little bit of failure will boost up their motivation to grow, but to those who are having simple life all along, these disappointments are just too much for them to bear, which is not helpful in moulding a person's life.
*
There's your answer:

QUOTE
I never blame God for what had happened to me, big problem or small problem. All I do is through prayer, move His hand to restore things to be better.


If you do this TRULY, with all your heart, mind, strength, and soul, you won't even need to ask your questions here. It is painful sometimes because God does not answer you like a human being, but bear in mind, the pain was not GIVEN, it is ALLOWED, so that we UNDERSTOOD the WISDOM behind it, pain is NOTHING.

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Apr 8 2011, 09:36 PM
iamwho
post Apr 8 2011, 10:19 PM

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hi all .. i am a Christian as well .. serving as an usher and also in sunday school ministry biggrin.gif .. nice to meet you all fellow Christians here as well thumbup.gif
debbieyss
post Apr 8 2011, 10:39 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Apr 8 2011, 09:33 PM)
There's your answer:
If you do this TRULY, with all your heart, mind, strength, and soul, you won't even need to ask your questions here. It is painful sometimes because God does not answer you like a human being, but bear in mind, the pain was not GIVEN, it is ALLOWED, so that we UNDERSTOOD the WISDOM behind it, pain is NOTHING.
*
I know. But the prayers are not answered nor given. Whenever someone told me He answers prayers, and share me their testimonies, I believe with no doubt, but never would I believe the same would happen to me. I prayed, prayed, waited and prayed; I had hope, faith, patience to wait but in the end I only had disappointment.
SUSKal-el
post Apr 8 2011, 10:42 PM

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lol
SUSDeadlocks
post Apr 8 2011, 10:48 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 8 2011, 10:39 PM)
I know. But the prayers are not answered nor given. Whenever someone told me He answers prayers, and share me their testimonies, I believe with no doubt, but never would I believe the same would happen to me. I prayed, prayed, waited and prayed; I had hope, faith, patience to wait but in the end I only had disappointment.
*
Instead of praying and ASKING FOR SOMETHING, why not just pray for forgiveness for your sins and give thanks for what you already have?

That's right. Stop praying for the sake of ASKING, and EXPECTING.

Just pray. Stop asking for things.

And instead, try giving instead.

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Apr 8 2011, 10:50 PM
SUSWholesome Christian
post Apr 8 2011, 10:51 PM

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i believe in God. because when i was young about to sit for UPSR, i knew peanuts. so i prayed. and miraculously, i scored 3As 2Bs.

and this time when play station came out. i was real gutted because everyone had one, and im still playing sega saturn. so i prayed again. to my surprise, my dad already bought one but he kept it until my birthday.

and last year, i was real broke. as usual. i prayed. and the number 4967 appeared in my dream that night. ive never bought nor gamble in any form of lottery prior. but i did. it was God's will. and that night i was 60k richer.

God is great! believe it!
SUSDeadlocks
post Apr 8 2011, 10:53 PM

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QUOTE(Wholesome Christian @ Apr 8 2011, 10:51 PM)
i believe in God. because when i was young about to sit for UPSR, i knew peanuts. so i prayed. and miraculously, i scored 3As 2Bs.

and this time when play station came out. i was real gutted because everyone had one, and im still playing sega saturn. so i prayed again. to my surprise, my dad already bought one but he kept it until my birthday.

and last year, i was real broke. as usual. i prayed. and the number 4967 appeared in my dream that night. ive never bought nor gamble in any form of lottery prior. but i did. it was God's will. and that night i was 60k richer.

God is great! believe it!
*
Are you being sarcastic?

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Apr 8 2011, 10:53 PM
SUSWholesome Christian
post Apr 8 2011, 10:59 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Apr 8 2011, 10:53 PM)
Are you being sarcastic?
*
excuse me? what interest did you think i had by being sarcastic?

have mercy on those who doubt, as can be read in jude 1:22
gu~wak_zhai
post Apr 8 2011, 11:00 PM

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QUOTE(Wholesome Christian @ Apr 8 2011, 10:51 PM)
i believe in God. because when i was young about to sit for UPSR, i knew peanuts. so i prayed. and miraculously, i scored 3As 2Bs.

and this time when play station came out. i was real gutted because everyone had one, and im still playing sega saturn. so i prayed again. to my surprise, my dad already bought one but he kept it until my birthday.

and last year, i was real broke. as usual. i prayed. and the number 4967 appeared in my dream that night. ive never bought nor gamble in any form of lottery prior. but i did. it was God's will. and that night i was 60k richer.

God is great! believe it!
*
hmm.gif


u troll?
SUSDeadlocks
post Apr 8 2011, 11:01 PM

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QUOTE(Wholesome Christian @ Apr 8 2011, 10:59 PM)
excuse me? what interest did you think i had by being sarcastic?

have mercy on those who doubt, as can be read in jude 1:22
*
Lol, another advocate. Either you're young, or you've just been converted to Christianity.
SUSWholesome Christian
post Apr 8 2011, 11:03 PM

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so much negative vibe. so much.
SUSDeadlocks
post Apr 8 2011, 11:07 PM

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QUOTE(Wholesome Christian @ Apr 8 2011, 11:03 PM)
so much negative vibe. so much.
*
No worries.
Pinarello
post Apr 9 2011, 10:45 AM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 8 2011, 09:19 AM)
I know your reply doesn't refer to me but I would like to share my view.

I never blame God for what had happened to me, big problem or small problem. All I do is through prayer, move His hand to restore things to be better.

The thing is when things don't turn out after you have put your faith in, but more and more problems coming out, you might wonder if it's God's will, and you might wonder if your prayers are not pleasing, or something wrong with your prayers. And whenever you see your christian fellows, or even non-christians, getting what they want, you might want to do something and ask from God giving you the same. Please take note, things that I refer to now is not straight As in SPM or STPM or CGPA or entering which top Uni or big company, I'm merely asking for a simple family. That's all.

If you did trace back the post I shared a little bit earlier on, check out the website and see how many women out there, faithfully and genuinely loving their husbands, having intimate relationship since their dating stage but out of a sudden, after 5 years of marriage, their husbands have affair with another women, some husbands even shifted out and left the children behind.

If this husband is predestined to betray the wife, why would God allows them to get married? Have you seen people who face too much of stress and disappointments and in the end they cry fainted and go insane?

I would rather my life go simple, than to have a very blessed and wonderful beginning but in the end huge disappointment, like a huge rock drops on your body.

The higher you have faith in something, the painful you feel. Some people who are proud and stubborn, little bit of failure will boost up their motivation to grow, but to those who are having simple life all along, these disappointments are just too much for them to bear, which is not helpful in moulding a person's life.
*
Dear Debbie , you should not be focusing so much of the problems here on earth. Every problem we face and we question God is absolutely fine. God wont mind. But I hope that none of us dwells so much on a problem that it becomes part of our innerself. We become what we behold. If we dwell and keep thinking abt negative problems, it tends to affect other areas of our life.

I just pray from the very bottom of my heart, God gives you wisdom and understanding to see pass all these.

I know lots of marriages and many other things in life goes wrong. Its terrible. Is God allowing all these sufferings? Surely not. It is not God's nature and not ever in His heart to see suffering.

But God cannot erase or over rule ones decision that will lead/cause suffering. Got does not plan for suffering. He does not marry two lives together that will make discord. He does know what ones choices, inclinations, favourites, and thoughts are. But He still cannot disrespect one's freewill of choice to choose and go into something if that somethings still brings problems upon that person.

You know Debbie, since you are aware that such problems exist, have you prayed for these troubled people? That you are so burdened to see these ppl set free from their problems?

I believe the power of your prayer (not just for yourself) but for others is extremely effective. You wana pray in whatever way you want to God, I am sure He will listen.

God does not reject any prayers. He keeps it. And highly likely He will send an answer.

The only issue is : Did we hear that answer correctly? Did we receive that answer properly? Sometimes He doesnt give a solution right on. He gives us a choice/action to take to achieve that solution. God answers and gives solutions in many different ways. IF He kept giving a straight solution its like Him being a vending machine everytime we put money (our prayers) in it. God is not like that.

I still pray God reveals to you. In the most amazing powerful ways..........may He show you something good. smile.gif

QUOTE(eXyzt @ Apr 8 2011, 09:51 AM)
First of all, keep in mind that salvation means we are free of the penalty of sin. After salvation, we have to work to be free from the power of sin.

So whether you are single or married, we will still be tempted with lust. Husbands are not predestined to betray their wife. It's their choice.

Remember free will. It's like you know your best friend is dating a jerk. You can advise her all you want but if she chooses to marry him, that's up to her. God works in the same way. He shows you and guides you away from the bad stuff. If you choose to ignore Him and still do it, that's up to you.

So with regards to marriage, whoever you choose to marry is your own choice. God won't stop you. If you happen to marry an unfaithful person, you will have to live with the consequences. That's why also in the Bible, we are discouraged from marrying non-believers. Not that they are bad, but our faith might be jeopardized.

That's why I like my pastor's advice: When you are dating, look with both eyes open wide. Whe you are married, keep one eye close. Dating is when you evaluate whether you want to spend the rest of your life with that person. Marriage is living with him/her and working to make the relationship work.
*
QUOTE(pehkay @ Apr 8 2011, 11:05 AM)
To continue: biggrin.gif

It Being Impossible for Sinners to Fulfill the Requirements of God's Law

The law, therefore, exposes our condition, showing us that it is impossible for sinners to fulfill the requirements of God's law. Although man cannot do good, he desires and wills to do good. Actually, man's condition is that he does not care for God; rather, he cares for things other than God. He does not take God as his satisfaction nor takes what God has accomplished as his enjoyment and rest; rather, he wants to strive by himself and bear the burdens alone. Today people have fallen into a condition of hatred, murder, and fornication. Today people commit fornication like those at the time of Sodom.

Since man's condition is such, God considers His law, His reality, as His requirements upon sinners. It is as if He says to man who desires to do good, "These are My requirements. Do you want to do good? Go ahead! If you can work out all the Ten Commandments, I will justify you." According to Romans 7, it seems that Paul was able to work out the first nine commandments, but he was not able to work out the last commandment concerning not coveting. The law of God makes it impossible for sinners to fulfill the requirements of God, because God's law is for the purpose of exposing man. It cannot give life (Gal. 3:21). The law as a "photo" is good, but it does not have life. Furthermore, there is something that the law cannot do, in that it is weak through the flesh of sinners (Rom. 8:3a). The law itself is not weak, but the flesh of man that tries to work out the law is weak, so the law became weak and impotent.

The Law of God Being Able Only to Expose Man's Sinful Nature and Wicked Deeds

Since the law cannot give life and is impotent, being weak through the flesh of sinners, why did God add the law? The law of God was added for the purpose of exposing man's inward, sinful nature and his outward, wicked deeds (Rom. 3:20b; 5:20a). We have violated every one of the Ten Commandments. The law is a mirror. When we stand before the mirror of the law, we all are exposed.

The Law of God Becoming the Custodian and Child-conductor of God's Chosen People to Bring Them to Christ-Grace

Nevertheless, the law of God has a positive function in God's hand. The law has become the custodian and child-conductor of God's chosen people to bring them to Christ-grace (Gal. 3:23-24). God's chosen people were shut up and guarded under the law, just like sheep being kept in the sheepfold (John 10:1, 16). In His economy God used the law as a sheepfold to keep His elect in custody until Christ came. The law was able only to demand and condemn; it could not give life. There is no life in the law; there are only commandments. Life is in Christ. He is the life-giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45b), the only One who is able to give life. When we are under law, we are just like children, and we need the law to be the custodian and child-conductor watching over us. This kind of watching over is not with an evil intention; it is for our protection. Hence, this custodian becomes our child-conductor, and this child-conductor brings us to Christ. Today Christ as the life-giving Spirit is the grace that we enjoy. When Christ comes, grace comes. He became flesh and was full of grace, and of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. Now we are no longer children under the custody of the law. Rather, through our faith in Christ Jesus we have become children of God to enjoy Him as our grace.
*
Bless you brother for such a long lengthy answer

QUOTE(thken @ Apr 8 2011, 07:03 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


hmm, it takes time for me to understand the whole thing LOL, although i'm still not fully understand this, but will save it in my pc for future reference. anyway thanks for spending time for this article
*
Hey bro, if u want to understand better, its simple : You can ask God to help u understand through Him. smile.gif

You may/may not get it all now. Its fine. Alot of us cant really get it all too. God is just too big and too amazing. smile.gif

QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Apr 8 2011, 09:33 PM)
There's your answer:
If you do this TRULY, with all your heart, mind, strength, and soul, you won't even need to ask your questions here. It is painful sometimes because God does not answer you like a human being, but bear in mind, the pain was not GIVEN, it is ALLOWED, so that we UNDERSTOOD the WISDOM behind it, pain is NOTHING.
*
Amen

QUOTE(iamwho @ Apr 8 2011, 10:19 PM)
hi all .. i am a Christian as well .. serving as an usher and also in sunday school ministry  biggrin.gif .. nice to meet you all fellow Christians here as well  thumbup.gif
*
Bless you brother

QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 8 2011, 10:39 PM)
I know. But the prayers are not answered nor given. Whenever someone told me He answers prayers, and share me their testimonies, I believe with no doubt, but never would I believe the same would happen to me. I prayed, prayed, waited and prayed; I had hope, faith, patience to wait but in the end I only had disappointment.
*
QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Apr 8 2011, 10:48 PM)
Instead of praying and ASKING FOR SOMETHING, why not just pray for forgiveness for your sins and give thanks for what you already have?

That's right. Stop praying for the sake of ASKING, and EXPECTING.

Just pray. Stop asking for things.

And instead, try giving instead.
*
Another Amen to that bro.


TShappy4ever
post Apr 9 2011, 11:52 AM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 8 2011, 10:39 PM)
I know. But the prayers are not answered nor given. Whenever someone told me He answers prayers, and share me their testimonies, I believe with no doubt, but never would I believe the same would happen to me. I prayed, prayed, waited and prayed; I had hope, faith, patience to wait but in the end I only had disappointment.
*
your prayers were answered with a NO or LATER. dont expect your prayers to go as you want all the time. Never work that way

Seek for the Kingdom of God. Go after God's will. Not yours.


pehkay
post Apr 9 2011, 01:28 PM

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To debbieyss:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, if I "bypassed" your question biggrin.gif ...... note that in my sharing, my goal to help you to see higher, deeper truth concerning God's purpose than to deal with these questions directly. Usually, if we have spiritual light to see God's purpose, these questions will become er... irrelevant .... Well, to address the matter of human marriage ... we need to see it is a shadow of what is in God's heart.

So here goes:
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The Bible is a romance. tongue.gif tongue.gif blush.gif blush.gif Have you ever heard this before? It may sound secular and unreligious. However, if you have entered into the deep thought of the Bible, you will realize that the Bible is a romance, in the most pure and the most holy sense, of a universal couple.

The male of this couple is God Himself. Although He is a divine Person, He desires to be the male of this universal couple. This very God, after a long process, has resulted in Christ as the Bridegroom.

The female of this couple is a corporate human being, God's redeemed people, including all the saints of the Old Testament and the New Testament. After a long process this corporate person results in the New Jerusalem as the Bride.

This Romance in the Old Testament

This holy romance is repeatedly revealed throughout the Old Testament. Immediately after the record of God's creation, we find the story of a marriage (Gen. 2:21-25). In this marriage Adam is the type of Christ as the husband, and Eve is the type of the church as the wife. In Ephesians 5 we see the couple typified by Adam and Eve-Christ and the church. The type of Adam and Eve reveals that the persons of this universal couple must be of the same source. God created one person, Adam, and out from this person a wife came. Eve was not created separately by God; she came out of Adam. Eve was made out of a rib, a piece of bone, that came from Adam, indicating that both Adam and Eve proceeded out of the same source. In this universal couple the wife must come out of the husband. Likewise, the church must come out of Christ. The two persons of this couple must be of the same source. They also must be of one nature. Furthermore they must share one common life. Adam's nature and life were also Eve's. Eve had the same nature and life as Adam. The two persons of this couple were of one source, of one nature, and had the same one life. Without doubt, they also had one living. When God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone;....", indirectly it is God saying that it is not good for God to be alone. rclxub.gif

This couple is the secret of the universe. The secret of the whole universe is that God and His chosen ones are to be one couple. Hallelujah! We, God's chosen ones, and God are of one source, of one nature, and have one life. Now we also need to have one living. We are not living by ourselves or for ourselves; we are living with God and for God, and God is living with us and for us. Hallelujah!

Several times in the Old Testament God referred to Himself as the Husband and to His people as His wife (Isa. 54:5; 62:5; Jer. 2:2; 3:1, 14; 31:32; Ezek. 16:8; 23:5; Hosea 2:7, 19). God was desirous of being a husband and of having His people as His wife. Many times the prophets spoke of God as the Husband and of His people as His wife. Humanly speaking, we always think of God in a religious way as the Almighty, feeling compelled to worship Him. But do you married brothers expect this from your wives? Our God certainly is the Almighty God, and, as His creatures, we must worship Him. Many verses speak about worshipping God in this way. However, have you never read in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Hosea that God desires to be a husband? In ancient times God's people built the temple and established a system of worship complete with priesthood and sacrifices. One day God intervened and spoke through Isaiah saying, "I am tired of this. I am weary with your sacrifices. I want you to love Me. I am your Husband, and you must be My wife. I want to have a marriage life. I am lonely. I need you. I need you, My chosen people, to be My wife."

The Full Romance in Song of Songs

Among the 39 books in the Old Testament, there is one book called the Song of Songs. Song of Songs is more than a romance; it is a fantastic romance. Have you ever read a romance like the Song of Songs? As far as I am concerned, the Song of Songs is the finest romance. It speaks of two people who fall in love. In Song of Songs we find a woman falling in love with a man saying, "Oh, that he might kiss me with the kisses of his mouth. I am thirsty for this." Immediately, her beloved is at hand, and the pronoun changes from "he" to "you" (S. S. 1:2-3). "Your name is sweet, and your love is better than wine. Draw me, my beloved. Don't teach me, draw me. I don't need a pastor or a preacher. I don't need an elder or even an apostle. I need you to draw me. Draw me, we will run after you." What a romance!

In the case of Adam and Eve we saw that the couple had one source, one nature, one life, and one living. In Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Hosea we saw that God desires to have a wife who will live together with Him. God longs to have a marriage life, to have divinity live together with humanity. But His people failed Him. In Song of Songs, however, we see the genuine marriage life. What is the secret of such a romance? The secret is that the wife must take her husband not only as her life and her living, but as her person.

(too much I can share from SS)

This Romance in the New Testament

Now we need to consider this romance as it is portrayed in the New Testament.

There is no doubt that the gospels give us a full record of Christ as our Savior. However, have you noticed that the four gospels also tell us that Christ has come as the Bridegroom (Matt. 9:15; Mark 2:19; Luke 5:34; John 3:29)? He has come for His bride. When the disciples of John the Baptist saw many people forsaking John to follow the Lord Jesus, John told them not to be troubled, that Christ is the Bridegroom, and that all the increase belongs to Him (John 3:30). The Bridegroom has come for the bride. What is the bride? The bride is the increase of Christ. Each of the four gospels presents Christ as the Bridegroom coming for the bride.

In the epistles Christ and the church are portrayed as husband and wife (Eph. 5:25-32; 2 Cor. 11:2). The epistles clearly liken Christ and the church to husband and wife. If we know what is unfolded in the epistles, we will see that Christ is revealed in them as our Husband and that the believers are revealed as His counterpart, as His wife. We must be one with Him in source, in nature, in life, and in daily living.

In the book of Revelation Christ is unveiled as having a wedding (Rev. 19:7) and the New Jerusalem is presented as His wife (Rev. 21:2, 9). In chapter 19 of Revelation we see that Christ will enjoy a wedding feast, and in chapter 21 we see that the New Jerusalem will be His wife. In Revelation 21 and 22, the last two chapters of the Bible, we see that the ultimate consummation of the whole Bible is this universal couple-the husband and the wife.

Furthermore, the Bible tells us that this couple with the two persons are one flesh (Gen. 2:24; Eph. 5:31). Adam and Eve were one flesh. Since they were one flesh, they were also one man. Christ and His chosen people are one, universal, corporate man with Christ, the Husband, as the Head (Eph. 4:15) and with the church, the wife, as the Body (Eph. 1:22-23). Eventually, these two become one, all-inclusive, universal, corporate man. In Ephesians 5 the church is presented as a wife, and in Ephesians 1 the church is presented as the Body of Christ. She is Christ's wife and Christ's body. Christ is her Husband and her Head. So, Christ and the church are a universal, corporate man. This is the kernel of the divine revelation in the Word of God. The kernel is simply a couple and a man: a couple with the Triune God as the Husband and His chosen people as the wife, and a man with Christ as the Head and with His chosen people as the Body. This is the central revelation of the whole Bible. In the couple the main aspect is love, and in the man the main aspect is life. Christ and the church, as a couple, are a matter of love, and Christ and the church, as a man, are a matter of life.

Seeing this, do we still treat our marriage so lightly? tongue.gif

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 9 2011, 01:34 PM
Sophiera
post Apr 9 2011, 01:33 PM

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Great to see the Christian Lounge is back up again nod.gif

I have one question....if a Christian says that the Bible is not the inspired word of God, and that they're just very good documentations... what to do? I got really scared of course, because if the Bible is not the inspired word of God then everything can be doubted and refuted.
SUSDeadlocks
post Apr 9 2011, 01:58 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Apr 9 2011, 01:33 PM)
Great to see the Christian Lounge is back up again nod.gif

I have one question....if a Christian says that the Bible is not the inspired word of God, and that they're just very good documentations... what to do?  I got really scared of course, because if the Bible is not the inspired word of God then everything can be doubted and refuted.
*
If you ask me, many people did not read the word of God as it is intended to be. Which is to be in Spirit.
lycaphim
post Apr 9 2011, 02:10 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Apr 9 2011, 01:33 PM)
I have one question....if a Christian says that the Bible is not the inspired word of God, and that they're just very good documentations... what to do?  I got really scared of course, because if the Bible is not the inspired word of God then everything can be doubted and refuted.
*
Hello!

The Bible is a patchwork of many different books with many different genres. It contains history, allegory and poetry among other things.

As to whether the Bible is the inspired Word of God, this is a belief formed throughout Church History and is the claim of the author of 2 Timothy 3:16, for example.

Nevertheless, the Bible should not just be accepted blindly and must of course be tested according to its authenticity and historicity. I can recommend this work by F.F. Bruce for starters (talks about the New Testament mainly, but is a good overview on this issue nonetheless): http://www.bible.ca/b-new-testament-documents-f-f-bruce.htm

This post has been edited by lycaphim: Apr 9 2011, 02:11 PM
debbieyss
post Apr 9 2011, 02:14 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Apr 9 2011, 01:28 PM)
To debbieyss:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, if I "bypassed" your question biggrin.gif ...... note that in my sharing, my goal to help you to see higher, deeper truth concerning God's purpose than to deal with these questions directly. Usually, if we have spiritual light to see God's purpose,  these questions will become er... irrelevant .... Well, to address the matter of human marriage ... we need to see it is a shadow of what is in God's heart.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

hi pehkay, thanks for the lengthy reply. I read it, but still, it seems like not answering my question tongue.gif

The question i ask is not how heavily or lightly we should treat a marriage. I'm asking:
1. If the man is predestined to betray, why would God allows the couple to get married?
2. If the husband betrays, can the wife do anything to patch things up?

mekboyz
post Apr 9 2011, 02:15 PM

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i suspect debbysys is trying to troll us god-fearing christians hmm.gif
pehkay
post Apr 9 2011, 02:17 PM

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To debbieyss pt 2: predestination is a can of worm .... doh.gif. On the previous thread, we can safety say it is not God's desire to have broken marriages / predestined a spouse to leave ... (strange thought).

So, here I am again not answering your question on predestination per se, but my hope is that you will see something higher, that is, predestination is FOR God's purpose.

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Scripture reading: Eph 1:4-5

In a strict sense, predestination has nothing to do with you but of God's desire to have sons. We have been selected and called for God's purpose (Rom. 9:11). In eternity past, God predestinated us unto sonship, marking out a destiny for His chosen ones before the foundation of the world. The goal of God’s predestination is sonship. We were predestinated to be sons of God even before we were created. Hence, as God’s creatures, we need to be regenerated by Him so that we may participate in His life to be His sons. Sonship implies not only the life, but also the position of the son. God’s marked-out ones have the life to be His sons and the position to inherit Him (Eph 1:4)

God predestinated us unto sonship according to the good pleasure of His will, which is His purpose (Eph 1:4). This reveals that God has a will in which is His good pleasure. God predestinated us to be His sons according to this pleasure, according to the desire of His heart. The book of Ephesians speaks not from the standpoint of man’s sinful condition, as does the book of Romans, but from the standpoint of the good pleasure of God’s heart. Hence, it is deeper and higher.

In verse 4 we see that God has chosen us to be holy. However, to be holy is the procedure, not the goal. The goal is sonship. We have been predestinated unto sonship. In other words, God has chosen us to be holy so that we might be His sons. Thus, to be holy is the process, the procedure, whereas to be sons of God is the goal. God does not merely want a group of holy people; He desires many sons. It may seem to us that it is adequate for God to choose us to be holy. We may be fully satisfied with this. Nevertheless, God has chosen us to be holy for a purpose, and this purpose is that we might be the sons of God.

Let us take baking a cake as an example. When a sister bakes a cake, she firstly prepares the dough by mixing various ingredients together with flour. As the ingredients are mixed in with the dough, we may say that the dough is a picture of sanctification. First the dough is separated; then it is sanctified through having various ingredients added to it. After the sister mixes the dough, she shapes it into a certain form. Likewise, God first separates us, and then puts Himself, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, into us. Then follows the process of mixing. To say that God mixes us means that He disturbs us. We may like to have a tranquil church life, but often God intervenes to turn things upside down. Nevertheless, this is the normal Christian church life.

To be holy is to be mingled with God. God sanctifies us by putting Himself into us and then mingling us with His nature. This is a matter of nature, of having our nature transformed with His. We were born human, natural, but God wants us to be divine. The only way this can take place is through having the divine nature put into our being and mingled with it. In this way, God makes us holy. Thus, sanctification is a procedure to transform our nature. This, however, is not the goal. The goal is related to being formed or shaped. This is the reason that along with God’s choosing us to be holy, there is the need of His predestinating us to be sons. To be holy is a matter of nature, but to be sons is a matter of being formed. God’s sons are people conformed to a particular form or shape.

The golden lampstand in Revelation 1 illustrates this. In nature, the lampstand is golden, but in form it is a lampstand. In order for a golden lampstand to be produced, the material must first be pure gold. This refers to the procedure. But the goal of this procedure is the producing of the lampstand with a definite form. In like manner, to be made holy is the procedure for us to become sons of God.

When I saw that holiness was for sonship, I said to myself, “How could you ever have been satisfied with holiness as an end in itself? You can only be satisfied with being a son of God.” Thus, we are not only holy, but also the sons of God. We have not only God’s holy nature, but also the Person of His Son. Therefore, we are not merely holy lumps, but also sons of God.

All Christians know that the genuine believers in Christ are the church. But the church is not merely a group of saved ones. The church is a collective people who have been made holy in nature to be the sons of God. This collective people must be sanctified, saturated, and mingled with God’s nature. Then they will be the sons of God. Such a people is the church.

The situation of today’s Christianity is far removed from this. In Christianity we see groups of people who are saved, but who are still common and worldly, not having any holiness whatever. Furthermore, they do not live like sons of God. Rather, many of them live like sons of sinners. Although so many believe in the Lord Jesus, have been washed in the blood, and have been regenerated by the Spirit, they are still worldly and common, with no mark of holiness in their living. They are absolutely the same as their neighbors, friends, and relatives. Nevertheless, they talk about being the church. What a shame to God, and what a shame to the church! The church is constituted as a collective people who have been separated unto God and who are saturated with the nature of God and fully sanctified to live like sons of God.

(in another side note)

The New Testament clearly reveals that the purpose of God's selection, predestination, and calling is sonship (Eph. 1:4-5). We have been predestinated unto sonship. We are not common sons; we are royal sons, sons of the royal family who are destined to be kings. Romans 8:29 says, "Whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son." This is God's purpose. God's purpose in selecting, predestinating, and calling us is to make pitiful sinners into royal sons so that, after the process of transformation has been completed, we may reign as kings.

Genesis 1:26 reveals that God's purpose in His creation of man was that man might express Him in His image and represent Him with His dominion. The New Testament also says that we have been made priests and kings (Rev. 1:6; 20:6). As priests, we bear the image of God to express Him, and as kings, we have the dominion of God to represent Him. During the millennial kingdom, we shall express Him in His image as His priests and we shall exercise His dominion with His authority to rule over the earth as kings. Now, we are daily undergoing the process of transformation that we might bear the full image of God and exercise His authority.

If we look at ourselves, we shall say, "The more I look at myself, the less I look like a son of God, much less like a king. How pitiful I am! Although I have been saved for many years, I'm still so poor." Praise the Lord that we realize that we are so poor. Do not be disappointed or discouraged. This is why we are under the process of God's transformation.

Of the fifty chapters in the book of Genesis, twenty-five and a half are devoted to the record of Jacob with Joseph. In these chapters we see that Jacob was under God's dealings and discipline. Everyone who was involved with or related to Jacob became a means whereby God dealt with him. God used his father, mother, brother, uncle, wives, and children. But when Jacob finally came out of the oven, he became a prince of God.

What was the purpose of Jacob's experience? Was it for him to have peace, joy, and a happy life? If we say this, Jacob would reply, "I don't agree with you. In my whole life I have not had much peace, not even when I was in my mother's womb. God did not put me first; I had to fight for it. And when I lost the fight, I had no peace. I cheated my brother, and he wanted to kill me. Then my mother helped me to flee to my uncle Laban. Laban was much more skillful than I in cheating. Don't talk to me about peace. I haven't had much peace or joy, but I've had many dealings." God's purpose for Jacob was not to give him peace, joy, and a happy life and then to take him to heaven. God's purpose was to deal with this pitiful supplanter until he was transformed into a prince of God bearing His image to express Him and exercising His dominion to represent Him. This is God's goal. When we come to the end of Genesis, we see that Israel was exactly this type of person. When he saw Pharaoh, he did not say a word. He simply stretched forth his hands and blessed him (47:7, 10). Jacob bore the image of God, expressing Him in a full way. Furthermore, through Joseph, he was the one who had dominion over the whole earth, representing God on the earth. Thus, at the end of Genesis we see God's goal, the goal of His selection. Today we are on the way of Jacob. We have all been called, justified, and are enjoying God's grace. At the same time, we are under God's dealings. Not only is God's little finger upon us, but also His thumb. This is God's dealing and God's transformation. This will make us not only a son of God, but also an Israel, a prince of God.

(still a lot to share ... but ....


debbieyss
post Apr 9 2011, 02:17 PM

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Seeing Christ as the only hope in my life, I just want to know if there is anything I can do through Him to get things go smoothly.

If you are to ask me to accept whatever problems happen to me, then might as well I believe in Buddha or other gods, they also teach the same thing - accept the problems.
mekboyz
post Apr 9 2011, 02:22 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 9 2011, 02:17 PM)
Seeing Christ as the only hope in my life, I just want to know if there is anything I can do through Him to get things go smoothly.

If you are to ask me to accept whatever problems happen to me, then might as well I believe in Buddha or other gods, they also teach the same thing - accept the problems.
*
you best be trollan boi. there is only one lord our saviour jesus christ
SUSDeadlocks
post Apr 9 2011, 02:28 PM

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pehkay
post Apr 9 2011, 02:34 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 9 2011, 02:17 PM)
Seeing Christ as the only hope in my life, I just want to know if there is anything I can do through Him to get things go smoothly.

If you are to ask me to accept whatever problems happen to me, then might as well I believe in Buddha or other gods, they also teach the same thing - accept the problems.
*
If you gone through things without knowing God's purpose ........ here is some reading which helps me ... but again, you have to see it from the viewpoint of God's perspective in gaining us (Jacob's experiences)

What is the distinction between the living God and the God of resurrection? Because, while the living God can perform many acts on man's behalf, the nature of the living God cannot blend with the nature of man. When, on the other hand, the God of resurrection works, His very nature is wrought into the nature of man. Brothers and sisters, please note carefully that even when the living God has performed some act on your behalf, after that act as before it, He is still He and you are still you. His working on your behalf does not impart anything of His nature to you. The living God can work on behalf of man, but the nature of the living God cannot unite with the nature of man. On the other hand, when the God of resurrection works, He communicates Himself to man by that which He does for him. Let me cite two illustrations.

When the children of Israel were in a hopeless plight in the wilderness, the living God opened a way for them across the Red Sea. The dividing of the Red Sea was a miracle which demonstrated to them that God was the living God, yet that miracle performed for them did not bring any measure of the life of God into them. They witnessed many other divine acts in the wilderness—e.g., God gave them bread from heaven and water out of the rock—but despite those and other wonders performed by God for them, nothing of God Himself was thereby imparted to them.

In contrast to this, the apostle Paul testifies to knowing not only the living God, but also the God of resurrection. Paul was so sorely tried that he despaired of life, but it was thus he learned to trust in the God who raises the dead. When the God of resurrection acted on his behalf to raise him from the dead, that divine act not only accomplished something for Paul; it also communicated God's own nature to Paul.

The miracles wrought for Israel in the wilderness were acts of the living God; but despite the many miracles wrought for them, nothing of God was wrought into their constitutions. The miracles wrought for Paul were wrought by the God of resurrection, and each fresh miracle wrought a fresh measure of God Himself into the life of Paul.

The miracles wrought for Israel in the wilderness were acts of the living God; but despite the many miracles wrought for them, nothing of God was wrought into their constitutions. The miracles wrought for Paul were wrought by the God of resurrection, and each fresh miracle wrought a fresh measure of God Himself into the life of Paul. Alas! though generations have passed since the resurrection, many Christians are almost ignorant of the God of resurrection and are only interested in the living God. Let me try and bring this matter home to our daily lives.

A brother becomes seriously ill. His case is considered hopeless, but God has mercy on him and works a miracle on his behalf so that he recovers. Thereafter, he testifies to the fact that God is the living God. Yet within a short time of his recovery he plunges right into the world. Even when he is living in the world, he still remembers that God is the living God and that God preserved his life from death. But he has experienced no increase of divine life; he has only experienced a miracle of healing.

Another brother becomes ill. Day after day passes without a vestige of improvement. For long he keeps hovering at the edge of the grave. Then, when he has completely despaired of life, in the depths of his being he gradually becomes aware of God. Resurrection life begins to work within, and he awakens to the fact that this resurrection life is a life that can overcome all affliction and can even swallow up death. He is still conscious of much weakness and is sorely tested; nevertheless, the realization deepens that God is not working to make His might known in external acts, but is working to impart Himself. Light breaks upon him gradually, and gradually health returns. This brother does not just experience a healing; he comes into a new experience of God. The other brother could testify to a miracle wrought in his body, and shortly after could plunge right into the world; but if this brother gives a word of testimony there is nothing sensational about it, and there is no stress on the healing; yet, you meet God in his life.


...............


What is the significance of suffering? This, that the devastation it brings to the old creation provides an opportunity for the God of resurrection to impart Himself to His creatures, so that they emerge from the death process with a divine element in their constitution. The primary purpose of suffering in this universe, particularly as it relates to the children of God, is that through it the very nature of God may be wrought into the nature of man. "If indeed our outward man is decaying, yet our inward man is being renewed day by day." Through a process of outward decay an inward process is taking place that is adding a new constituent to our lives.

Beloved brothers and sisters, through hardship and pressure a divine element is being wrought into the very fabric of our beings, so that we cease to be colorless Christians, but have a heavenly hue imparted to our lives that was lacking before. Whatever else suffering may effect in this universe is incidental; this is primary—to bring those whom the living God has made possessors of created life into the uncreated life of the God of resurrection. It is in the death experiences which come through suffering that the life of the creature is blended with the life of the Creator. We may know the living God without such drastic experiences, but only through death can we come to an experimental knowledge of the God of resurrection.

Suffering is the God-appointed lot of the Christian. The Christian's happiness is not to be found in external things, but in learning to enjoy God Himself in the midst of trial. Paul and Silas could rejoice and sing His praises while they were in prison, because their happiness did not come from outer circumstances, but from an inner enjoyment of God. In Paul's short letter to the Philippians, written during his imprisonment, there are over a score of references to joy. In deep distress he could still be joyful because in his affliction he was learning to know Christ, to appropriate Him and to enjoy Him. His outward circumstances were all conducive to sorrow, but it was in sorrow that Christ was imparted to him as the source of his joy.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 9 2011, 02:37 PM
Pinarello
post Apr 9 2011, 04:19 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 9 2011, 02:14 PM)
[/spoiler]
hi pehkay, thanks for the lengthy reply. I read it, but still, it seems like not answering my question  tongue.gif

The question i ask is not how heavily or lightly we should treat a marriage. I'm asking:
1. If the man is predestined to betray, why would God allows the couple to get married?
2. If the husband betrays, can the wife do anything to patch things up?
*
1. A man is not really predestined to betray. A man chooses if he wants to betray. That is much influenced by alot of factors (past hurts/him being betrayed himself by others/strong desires or lust for other things other than marriage/etc). So therefore because of his past, probably thats why he in the end betrays others. And again it is said, God allowed because He respects the freewill of the couple to join in marriage. God cannot force the marriage to be stopped. If God sees the marriage will be bad, He still cannot over rule the choice ppl make.

Your question goes the same for alot of us. It is not a Why God Allows question. It is more of a Are We Practising Enough Wisdom and Counsel before getting married. Thats probably why in every church there are PRE-marriage counsel and helplines to avoid this sort of issues.

God respects the choices of His creations. He cannot force. He cannot take back. BUT HE DOES ALLOW U-TURNS if we make a mistake.

2. YES. Seek Godly counsel is the first step towards healing and restoration. Go to a pastor, one with experience handling marriage issues. This is the wisest move a wife can do in this kind of situation. Get lots and lots of support from church members closest, esp those who are married. Pray together. Secondly know that God is always faithful. He does not leave anyone alone. Probably sometimes we are the ones who left God first. HOpefully that is not the case. (I answer based on a Christian context.)

QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 9 2011, 02:17 PM)
Seeing Christ as the only hope in my life, I just want to know if there is anything I can do through Him to get things go smoothly.

If you are to ask me to accept whatever problems happen to me, then might as well I believe in Buddha or other gods, they also teach the same thing - accept the problems.
*
This you have to surrender and lay down your life. Throw everything that doesnt help you listen/advance/expand/explore with God further.

The basic idea is first KNOW GOD AS A RELATIONSHIP FIRST. you dont need to be superwoman or wondergirl and try help things out for God when you really cannot. I know your heart has a heavy burden to see many of these sufferings end. But know that God is faithful and is in control. It is not our job to change lives or be the superhero. That is Gods job. He does all the miracles signs wonders and transformations. NOT us. We do the possible (sharing the Word, share the same love we experience with God with others, be good testimonies, evangelize, teach young generation, bless and pray). Let God be God and let Him do the hardwork for you.

You dont have to feel useless if things dont go your way or your prayers dont get answered. God might have other plans. Or sometimes the effect of the prayer takes time. It may not be instant.

God said "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled"

Wisdom yah. You dont need to help God to get things done. But you can interceed (pray on behalf of people) which is good.

Problems happen for sure here in life. If it happens fine. But are we to let the problems bug us? No. We should take authority which was given by God to overcome circumstances. We are not to sit and just accept. No. We are to go into the battle front and take the bull by its horns.

We have a God that backs us up. We have a God who is gracious. We have a God who is comforting. Jesus had lots of problems. He was tempted to prove He was God. He denied the devil. He commanded the devil to leave. So we can use the name of Jesus to overcome problems.

We can believe for instant solution (depending on the amount of faith one has. But even then, God said that even faith as small as a mustard seed is more than enough for Him to use it to do miracles.) but if no instant solution comes, just know that Gods hand is still upon His people who put faith trust in Him. The most important thing is , amidst all these problems, do we still look to Jesus and love Him?

So my definite answer is, if there is a problem. report it to God. Tell the problem how big is God, not tell God how big is the problem.

Be blessed. =)

This post has been edited by Pinarello: Apr 9 2011, 04:22 PM
Pinarello
post Apr 9 2011, 04:32 PM

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The new F Word in church.

Be blessed =)
debbieyss
post Apr 10 2011, 06:17 PM

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Hi pehkay, my questions are not answered... wink.gif

QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 9 2011, 02:14 PM)
[/spoiler]
hi pehkay, thanks for the lengthy reply. I read it, but still, it seems like not answering my question  tongue.gif

The question i ask is not how heavily or lightly we should treat a marriage. I'm asking:
1. If the man is predestined to betray, why would God allows the couple to get married?
2. If the husband betrays, can the wife do anything to patch things up?
*
Pinarello, thanks for your comments but I am afraid it's not convincing to me, and all the "solutions" or "preventions" you suggested are too "theory" to me.
AlphaDoggie
post Apr 10 2011, 08:07 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 9 2011, 02:14 PM)
[/spoiler]
hi pehkay, thanks for the lengthy reply. I read it, but still, it seems like not answering my question  tongue.gif

The question i ask is not how heavily or lightly we should treat a marriage. I'm asking:
1. If the man is predestined to betray, why would God allows the couple to get married?
2. If the husband betrays, can the wife do anything to patch things up?
*
Dear Debbie,

I'm sorry to hear that the people around you or news that you may have heard,
particularly man are being unfaithful to their loving wives. But that does not mean
all man are like that. And that does not necessary means that it will happen to you. smile.gif

You said 1. If the man is predestined to betray, why would God allows the couple to get married?
But what does the Word of God says? In Matt 19:6,
So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

The verse states that it is not the intention of God Himself the separation of the husband and his wife.
Therefore, a man is not predestined to betray his wife, but the Bible calls us in Colossians 3:19,
Husbands, love your wives and do not be bitter toward them.

(Note that in verse 18, it says 18 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.)

Yes, if the husband is notti or betrays his wife, let not the wife turn away from him. Yes, it really
hurts, but let us learn to forgive, even in that situation. No, I'm not saying this b'coz I'm a man,
but based on what is said in Matt 19:6, let us not separate it.
That does not also give the excuse to man to fool around, but
to repent of his ways, and learn to embrace his wife again.

Hope this helps smile.gif
pehkay
post Apr 10 2011, 09:26 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 10 2011, 06:17 PM)
Hi pehkay, my questions are not answered... wink.gif
Pinarello, thanks for your comments but I am afraid it's not convincing to me, and all the "solutions" or "preventions" you suggested are too "theory" to me.
*
Of course ... biggrin.gif ... it was never to answer your question ....

It is to bring you out of your present human situation and to look from God's perspective of His heart pleasure.

Int the end, God will use everything from our friends, boss, family, husband, wife, environment, sufferings etc just to gain you to be a matured son of God in the divine life. Everything is in the Father's hand.

Jacob was like that. Paul was too. And many more in front of us.

It is evident that Job and his friends did not see the positive aspect of God's economy in dealing with His holy people. That is, God wants to strip, not to judge, His holy ones that He might gain them so that they might gain Him more.

Job's friends thought that what he was suffering was a matter of God's judgment. However, Job's sufferings were not God's judgment but God's stripping. The Sabeans took away Job's oxen and donkeys, the "fire of God" devoured his sheep, the Chaldeans took his camels, and a great wind caused the death of his sons and daughters (Job 1:13-19). All these things were God's stripping, but Job and his friends regarded them as God's judgment. Throughout the centuries, many readers of the book of Job have had the same concept, thinking that Job suffered because of God's judgment.

Have you ever had the thought that quite often God does something to strip you? Even though you may not be wrong, suddenly certain things happen to you, and God uses these things to strip you. It is through His stripping that God dispenses Himself to those who love Him and seek after Him. Job lost all that he had, but ultimately he gained God Himself. God stripped his all in order that He could be his all for his full transformation and conformation to the glorious image of God in His Son (Rom. 8:29). Job and his friends did not have the adequate revelation of the divine truths. As godly men, they expressed their sentiments within the limits of the revelation they had received.

And you still want to be a Christian tongue.gif? (joking) The goal is too glorious. Sometimes, I don't like to share this aspect ... THERE are LOT MORE positive things in the Bible e.g. God's dispensing, His riches, His living in us, His one with us, etc ...

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 10 2011, 09:47 PM
Pinarello
post Apr 10 2011, 10:47 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 10 2011, 06:17 PM)
Hi pehkay, my questions are not answered... wink.gif
Pinarello, thanks for your comments but I am afraid it's not convincing to me, and all the "solutions" or "preventions" you suggested are too "theory" to me.
*
it is fine if my answer doesnt convince you. I will just believe God will show and do something in you.

My prayers go out to you. May the Holy Spirit guide you. May Gods love always be with you. Revelations will come to you.

=)
iamwho
post Apr 11 2011, 11:32 AM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 10 2011, 06:17 PM)
Hi pehkay, my questions are not answered... wink.gif
Pinarello, thanks for your comments but I am afraid it's not convincing to me, and all the "solutions" or "preventions" you suggested are too "theory" to me.
*
Hi debbieyss ... based on your comments, i think you already have the preconceived answers / thoughts to your questions that blinded you from God's answers to you which are included in pehkay's comments to you ... You have to remove that layer of thoughts and the "self" in your .. in order to feel God's presence.

sorry if I sounded a bit harsh ... but from what I see, you just want to have things your way and not God's ways... and that is why God has been silent to all your prayers ... God has said in His word that “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD (Isaiah 55:8) ... also, "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; n all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight (Proverbs 3:5-6).

If you could just seek HIM and not yourself, you will see God's miracles work in your slowly and the joy you feel from this which transcends all understanding.

Stop rambling about why God didn't work things out for you .. God does now owe us anything. Instead, we owe Him our love and trust for He has sent His only begotten Son Jesus to die for us on that cross - remember this and not forget this covenant you have embraced when you accept His salvation ... this is not our world .. it is only our temporary home ... whatever happens in this world will not last ... our hope and future is in the Lord and His heavenly kingdom and we out to live towards that ... pray that you will think less of yourself and this world and think more of Him and His kingdom .. in whatever ways, ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ (Luke 10:27).
Pinarello
post Apr 11 2011, 10:48 PM

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everyone, lets join faith and pray for Debbie.

We all wana see the body of Christ grow more and more in His likeness yah.

One of the commandments is to love others [both the lost and the saved alike] as ourselves.

The truth shall set the captives free. There is freedom in the name of Jesus.

A soldier never leaves a wounded comrade behind in battle. We shall support each other.

icon_rolleyes.gif
mekboyz
post Apr 11 2011, 10:51 PM

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From: Petaling Jaya



QUOTE(Pinarello @ Apr 11 2011, 10:48 PM)
everyone, lets join faith and pray for Debbie.

We all wana see the body of Christ grow more and more in His likeness yah.

One of the commandments is to love others [both the lost and the saved alike] as ourselves.

The truth shall set the captives free. There is freedom in the name of Jesus.

A soldier never leaves a wounded comrade behind in battle. We shall support each other.

icon_rolleyes.gif
*
why do you have to pray for debbie? its his right to believe or not believe. why must you force your religion on others?
zheyuen
post Apr 11 2011, 10:53 PM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 11 2011, 10:51 PM)
why do you have to pray for debbie? its his right to believe or not believe. why must you force your religion on others?
*
y u owayz in christian forum one ah? lol. i tot u belief in no God. lol.
mekboyz
post Apr 11 2011, 10:55 PM

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QUOTE(zheyuen @ Apr 11 2011, 10:53 PM)
y u owayz in christian forum one ah? lol. i tot u belief in no God. lol.
*
you dare question my god-fearing ways? get outta here heathen! sigh i will pray for your wretched soul. hopefully the devil's work can be undone
Pinarello
post Apr 11 2011, 11:07 PM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 11 2011, 10:51 PM)
why do you have to pray for debbie? its his right to believe or not believe. why must you force your religion on others?
*
i pray to bless her. =)

and i will pray the same for you too. =)
TShappy4ever
post Apr 11 2011, 11:21 PM

(✿◠‿◠) Queen of Love ⎝⏠⏝⏠⎠
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Joined: Jun 2005
From: Sanctuary of Paradise


QUOTE(iamwho @ Apr 11 2011, 11:32 AM)
Hi debbieyss ... based on your comments, i think you already have the preconceived answers / thoughts to your questions that blinded you from God's answers to you which are included in pehkay's comments to you ...  You have to remove that layer of thoughts and the "self" in your .. in order to feel God's presence.

sorry if I sounded a bit harsh ... but from what I see, you just want to have things your way and not God's ways... and that is why God has been silent to all your prayers ... God has said in His word that “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD (Isaiah 55:8) ... also, "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; n all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight (Proverbs 3:5-6).

If you could just seek HIM and not yourself, you will see God's miracles work in your slowly and the joy you feel from this which transcends all understanding.

Stop rambling about why God didn't work things out for you .. God does now owe us anything. Instead, we owe Him our love and trust for He has sent His only begotten Son Jesus to die for us on that cross - remember this and not forget this covenant you have embraced when you accept His salvation ...  this is not our world .. it is only our temporary home ... whatever happens in this world will not last ... our hope and future is in the Lord and His heavenly kingdom and we out to live towards that ... pray that you will think less of yourself and this world and think more of Him and His kingdom .. in whatever ways, ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ (Luke 10:27).
*
Reminds me of Jonah who wants to have it his way and end up in a fish tongue.gif

QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 11 2011, 10:51 PM)
why do you have to pray for debbie? its his right to believe or not believe. why must you force your religion on others?
*
Look on the bright side, its all prayers, and not street demos whistling.gif

QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 11 2011, 10:55 PM)
you dare question my god-fearing ways? get outta here heathen! sigh i will pray for your wretched soul. hopefully the devil's work can be undone
*
since when you believed there's a god? rolleyes.gif
debbieyss
post Apr 11 2011, 11:33 PM

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From: Kuala Lumpur


QUOTE(AlphaDoggie @ Apr 10 2011, 08:07 PM)
Dear Debbie,

I'm sorry to hear that the people around you or news that you may have heard,
particularly man are being unfaithful to their loving wives. But that does not mean
all man are like that. And that does not necessary means that it will happen to you. smile.gif

You said 1. If the man is predestined to betray, why would God allows the couple to get married?
But what does the Word of God says? In Matt 19:6,
So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

The verse states that it is not the intention of God Himself the separation of the husband and his wife.
Therefore, a man is not predestined to betray his wife, but the Bible calls us in Colossians 3:19,
Husbands, love your wives and do not be bitter toward them.

(Note that in verse 18, it says 18 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.)

Yes, if the husband is notti or betrays his wife, let not the wife turn away from him. Yes, it really
hurts, but let us learn to forgive, even in that situation. No, I'm not saying this b'coz I'm a man,
but based on what is said in Matt 19:6, let us not separate it.
That does not also give the excuse to man to fool around, but
to repent of his ways, and learn to embrace his wife again.

Hope this helps smile.gif
*
QUOTE(pehkay @ Apr 10 2011, 09:26 PM)
Of course ... biggrin.gif ... it was never to answer your question ....

It is to bring you out of your present human situation and to look from God's perspective of His heart pleasure.

Int the end, God will use everything from our friends, boss, family, husband, wife, environment, sufferings etc just to gain you to be a matured son of God in the divine life. Everything is in the Father's hand.

Jacob was like that. Paul was too. And many more in front of us.

It is evident that Job and his friends did not see the positive aspect of God's economy in dealing with His holy people. That is, God wants to strip, not to judge, His holy ones that He might gain them so that they might gain Him more.

Job's friends thought that what he was suffering was a matter of God's judgment. However, Job's sufferings were not God's judgment but God's stripping. The Sabeans took away Job's oxen and donkeys, the "fire of God" devoured his sheep, the Chaldeans took his camels, and a great wind caused the death of his sons and daughters (Job 1:13-19). All these things were God's stripping, but Job and his friends regarded them as God's judgment. Throughout the centuries, many readers of the book of Job have had the same concept, thinking that Job suffered because of God's judgment.

Have you ever had the thought that quite often God does something to strip you? Even though you may not be wrong, suddenly certain things happen to you, and God uses these things to strip you. It is through His stripping that God dispenses Himself to those who love Him and seek after Him. Job lost all that he had, but ultimately he gained God Himself. God stripped his all in order that He could be his all for his full transformation and conformation to the glorious image of God in His Son (Rom. 8:29). Job and his friends did not have the adequate revelation of the divine truths. As godly men, they expressed their sentiments within the limits of the revelation they had received.

And you still want to be a Christian tongue.gif? (joking) The goal is too glorious. Sometimes, I don't like to share this aspect ... THERE are LOT MORE positive things in the Bible e.g. God's dispensing, His riches, His living in us, His one with us, etc ...
*
QUOTE(iamwho @ Apr 11 2011, 11:32 AM)
Hi debbieyss ... based on your comments, i think you already have the preconceived answers / thoughts to your questions that blinded you from God's answers to you which are included in pehkay's comments to you ...  You have to remove that layer of thoughts and the "self" in your .. in order to feel God's presence.

sorry if I sounded a bit harsh ... but from what I see, you just want to have things your way and not God's ways... and that is why God has been silent to all your prayers ... God has said in His word that “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD (Isaiah 55:8) ... also, "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; n all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight (Proverbs 3:5-6).

If you could just seek HIM and not yourself, you will see God's miracles work in your slowly and the joy you feel from this which transcends all understanding.

Stop rambling about why God didn't work things out for you .. God does now owe us anything. Instead, we owe Him our love and trust for He has sent His only begotten Son Jesus to die for us on that cross - remember this and not forget this covenant you have embraced when you accept His salvation ...  this is not our world .. it is only our temporary home ... whatever happens in this world will not last ... our hope and future is in the Lord and His heavenly kingdom and we out to live towards that ... pray that you will think less of yourself and this world and think more of Him and His kingdom .. in whatever ways, ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ (Luke 10:27).
*
Thanks for all 3 of you who have spent time in clearing my doubts.

iamwho, you are right, I have certain preconceived answers in my mind, I dare not to cling to my own answer because I am not sure about the justification God has for one's salvation. "Heaven is so real" influenced my spiritual life very badly, and terribly, I couldn't help myself to draw nearer to God. Pastor PHilip Mantofa's sermon about visiting hell made a great negative impact in my life, to date I'd still have phobia in doing things, making decision. Somehow I lost the sense of conscience to live my daily life. I am quite lost. If these 2 devoted christians are so devoted, they wouldn't be deceiving any of us in their book and sermon; if I do not trust their testimonies, I couldn't take the responsibility that fall into hell in the end.

Indeed, the Jesus whom I first knew many years ago, is so different from what these devoted christians are telling. I know I have been repeating the same again and again, but I just couldn't help myself not repeating it. Because of these 2 testi, I have messed up my life to certain level.

QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 11 2011, 10:51 PM)
why do you have to pray for debbie? its his right to believe or not believe. why must you force your religion on others?
*
Do you have any unsaved loved one? I have. None of my family members are saved, I will continue to pray for their salvation. Some of them are once saved, but now lost the faith, I will still pray for them. I thought you are so GOD-FEARING that you afraid you are not compassionate enough like Jesus does?

Another thing, asking question is far better than not asking. Ask question because you are struggling to know, ask question because you want to know more. Get it?
TShappy4ever
post Apr 11 2011, 11:44 PM

(✿◠‿◠) Queen of Love ⎝⏠⏝⏠⎠
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Joined: Jun 2005
From: Sanctuary of Paradise


QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 11 2011, 11:33 PM)
Indeed, the Jesus whom I first knew many years ago, is so different from what these devoted christians are telling. I know I have been repeating the same again and again, but I just couldn't help myself not repeating it. Because of these 2 testi, I have messed up my life to certain level.
*
How different was the Jesus you knew and the Jesus these christians conveyed to you?
toda_II
post Apr 13 2011, 07:35 AM

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hi. I would love to learn a bit about Christian faith smile.gif
happy4ever, is that u, or your gf? ^^

This post has been edited by toda_II: Apr 13 2011, 07:40 AM
TShappy4ever
post Apr 13 2011, 12:40 PM

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QUOTE(toda_II @ Apr 13 2011, 07:35 AM)
hi. I would love to learn a bit about Christian faith smile.gif
happy4ever, is that u, or your gf? ^^
*
Neither

i'm just a lonely uncle with no girl or guy frens, only epic behind keyboard. so kesian.
debbieyss
post Apr 14 2011, 08:44 AM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 9 2011, 02:22 PM)
you best be trollan boi. there is only one lord our saviour jesus christ
*
You read my words, but you don't read my meaning.

Have I ever said I don't confess that Jesus is the only God? I'm asking for clarifications to clear my doubts, not that I don't believe He is the one true God.

I can't believe blindly, that's why I'm seeking for answers.
debbieyss
post Apr 14 2011, 08:53 AM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Apr 10 2011, 09:26 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
And you still want to be a Christian tongue.gif? (joking) The goal is too glorious. Sometimes, I don't like to share this aspect ... THERE are LOT MORE positive things in the Bible e.g. God's dispensing, His riches, His living in us, His one with us, etc ...
*
I ever thought of giving up my faith, to be honest.

There are just too many doubts and questions I have in my mind, for example why my colleague's mother-in-law was not saved when she died? My colleague's husband and her brother-in-law are christians also; A guest pastor who gave a sermon in one of the churches I visited not long ago, she and her husband attend the same church, her husband then in loves with a lady from this church and then he divorce this pastor and marry the lady, somemore the husband brings all his children and leave the pastor, now staying with this lady churchmate....etc...Many life examples come to me and I just can't believe that there is no revival or changes in these people's life, even though they hold faith to the God of universe.

This post has been edited by debbieyss: Apr 14 2011, 08:54 AM
pehkay
post Apr 14 2011, 11:17 AM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 14 2011, 08:53 AM)
I ever thought of giving up my faith, to be honest.

There are just too many doubts and questions I have in my mind, for example why my colleague's mother-in-law was not saved when she died? My colleague's husband and her brother-in-law are christians also; A guest pastor who gave a sermon in one of the churches I visited not long ago, she and her husband attend the same church, her husband then in loves with a lady from this church and then he divorce this pastor and marry the lady, somemore the husband brings all his children and leave the pastor, now staying with this lady churchmate....etc...Many life examples come to me and I just can't believe that there is no revival or changes in these people's life, even though they hold faith to the God of universe.
*
Hi debbieyss,

Once, we are regenerated, we have God's life and born of God (John 1:12). Yet, like every life, this life started out in a infant stage. The human life takes +-21 years to mature. The higher the life, the longer it takes (vegetable life->animal life->human life->God's life). How much more is the divine life in you? Many Christians were regenerated (born of God) but never had the divine revelation that he/she needs to grow in the divine life.

There is two aspects of God's salvation: judicial redemption (which we are very familiar with). The judicial aspect is according to the righteousness of God (Rom. 1:17a; 3:21-26; 9:30-31) as the procedure of God's salvation to satisfy the requirements of God's righteous law on the sinners. It is for sinners to be forgiven before God (Luke 24:47), washed (Heb. 1:3), justified (Rom. 3:24-25), reconciled to God (Rom. 5:10a), and sanctified unto God positionally (1 Cor. 1:2; Heb. 13:12), thereby entering into the grace of God for the accomplishment of the purpose of God's salvation.

However, redemption as the judicial aspect cannot carry out the purpose of God's salvation, because it is merely the procedure, not the purpose.
The organic aspect of God's salvation is through the life of God (Rom. 1:17b; Acts 11:18; Rom. 5:10b, 17b, 18b, 21b). Whereas the judicial aspect is according to the righteousness of God to accomplish God's redemption, the organic aspect is through the life of God to carry out God's salvation, including regeneration, shepherding, dispositional sanctification, renewing, transformation, building up, conformation, and glorification. This is the purpose of God's salvation to accomplish all that God wants to achieve in the believers in His economy through His divine life. This takes your WHOLE life if you let the Lord to work within you.

Some verses on growth to show I am not making this up biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif:
--------------------------------------
First Corinthians 3:6-7 says, "I planted, Apollos watered, but God made to grow; so that neither is the one who plants anything nor the one who waters, but the One who makes to grow, God." Verse 9 says, "For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's farm, God's building." Growth in these verses is not the growth in knowledge because here Paul speaks of a farm. Planting and watering are not related to knowledge. To plant is not to instruct but to nourish by supplying the plant with fertile soil. Likewise, to water is not to teach but to supply the plant with nutrients in the water. This is related to life.

Colossians 2:19 says, "Holding the Head, out from whom all the Body, by means of the joints and bands being supplied and knit together, grows with the growth of God." These verses show us that to grow is to grow with something. If a young boy does not eat or drink, he will have nothing with which to grow. One cannot grow with nothing. Rather, without something with which to grow, one will die. Dietitians tell us that we are what we eat. If we eat beef, we will be constituted with the meat of the cow. If we eat fish, we will be constituted with fish. We grow with the growth of God in us. AMAZING!..
------------------------------------

After being regenerated, we must be nourished with the supply of the milk of the word of God unto our daily, gradual salvation (1 Pet. 2:2). This gradual salvation is a daily salvation in which we are saved in the common situations of our daily living, both in big things and in small things. God’s organic salvation has a long span—from regeneration to glorification. Our regeneration is the initiation. Then we need to grow by feeding on Christ as the nourishing milk in the word of God unto maturity for glorification, unto salvation in full.

The problem today, most Christian are in the infant/children stage .. almost no different from worldly people. There is no experiences of sanctification from the world, lust or temper. There is no increase of God in them. This is not behavioral change but the element of God sanctifying and swallowing up our sinful, corrupted, fallen soul. This produces a transformation in life spoken by Paul in Rom 12:2 and 2 Cor 3:18.

We need to renewed in our being with God's life. The old man is absent of God's life. The new man has God as its element. If we are careless in our living, we will also be careless and rough in the way that we study the Bible. Before leaving the room where we are working, we may not return our chair to its original position under the desk or return the books to their proper place on the shelf from which we took them. Instead, we leave everything in a collapsed situation. This shows that we are short of renewing. When we are corrected again and again, we are renewed again and again. When we leave the room where we have been working, the things there should not be in a collapse but should be headed up in Christ. We need to be renewed in many small things. This renewing is to consummate God's intention in making the believers His new creation. A new man should be renewed, adjusted, corrected. Every mistake of ours belongs to our oldness. Why are we wrong? Because we are old. A new man is not wrong. A new man is always gentle, fine, and careful, especially in his relationships with others. This is not instantaneous but God dealing with us day by day.

This is the central truth that needs to be trumpeted out. I didn't touch at all on transformation, conformation and glorification .... rclxub.gif

I felt my short sharing did no justice to the subject as when these matters were shared to me on the steps of God's organic salvation ... I heard and studied hundreds of messages and tried to experience them in my daily life.

But, I hope it did answer your question on why Christians has no revival. The real revival is to experience God's organic salvation daily.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 14 2011, 11:22 AM
debbieyss
post Apr 14 2011, 12:19 PM

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pehkay, thanks for your patience in answering my question.

My main question to ask is this: Can a christian who by his singular faith, through his faith in God and through his consistent prayer to God, turn the life problems to be good?

If yes, then all these life problems are nothing to him, because he can always turn to God and pray about that and patiently see how God changes all these troubles into blessing and live a blessed life.

If not, how to turn things to be better? If Jesus is the only one who can intercede on our behalf, if He is the one true God who is always in control of everything but we don't see things change even after many eager and consistent prayers, what's the point?

This post has been edited by debbieyss: Apr 14 2011, 12:22 PM
pehkay
post Apr 14 2011, 03:24 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 14 2011, 12:19 PM)
pehkay, thanks for your patience in answering my question.

My main question to ask is this: Can a christian who by his singular faith, through his faith in God and through his consistent prayer to God, turn the life problems to be good?
*
I guess I will address the first question only. From all my sharing, sweat.gif you still didn't get that there is no such thing as "...turn the life problems to be good". That is "religion" biggrin.gif and not salvation. If it was, the greatest apostle, Paul, will have happy trouble-free life.

In 2 Cor. 1:4 Paul speaks of distresses. Literally the Greek word rendered distresses means narrowness of room; hence, straits, difficulties, distresses. Some translators even reverse the order of these words in verse 4, using distresses for afflictions, and afflictions for distresses. We may say that distresses are the inward sufferings which come as a reaction to the outward afflictions. Paul was in different kinds of troubles. This verse clearly indicates that Paul’s life was a life of affliction, calamity, straits, necessities, and distresses. rclxub.gif

Verse 5 says, “In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labors, in watchings, in fastings.” The stripes refer to the beatings Paul received. In 11:23 he refers to “stripes excessively,” where the word excessively literally means above measure. In 11:24 Paul says, “From the Jews five times I received forty stripes less one.” Furthermore, according to Acts 16:23, in Philippi Paul and Silas had many stripes laid upon them and then were cast into prison (Acts 16:23).

In 2 Cor. 1, verses 8 and 9 Paul said, "For we do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, of our affliction which befell us in Asia, that we were excessively burdened, beyond our power, so that we despaired even of living. Indeed we ourselves had the response of death in ourselves, that we should not base our confidence on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead." Paul and his co-workers were pressed down beyond their strength. They had the response, the sentence, of death in themselves. To their consideration, they had to die. This led them to put their trust not in themselves but in God who raises the dead.

SALVATION NOT BEING PROSPERITY BUT THE LORD HIMSELF

The Lord came to the earth for man to gain Him; everything outside of Him is just religion. We should not consider prosperity as a small thing; to be prosperous is a very personal matter. Many have believed in the Lord for prosperity, but little do they know that prosperity is a matter of religion. The Lord's salvation is not a matter of prosperity; rather, the Lord's salvation is altogether apart from prosperity. In the first century, because of their faith in the Lord, countless Christians suffered the loss of their homes, their loved ones, and even their precious lives. Were they for their own prosperity? Of course not! The more faith they had in the Lord, the less prosperity they had in their human life. In the end they even sacrificed themselves and were martyred. Not prosperity, but martyrdom-this is the Lord's salvation. Prosperity belongs to religion. The Lord's salvation is the Lord Himself.
-----------

(But don't be confused, that we will go and look for sufferings ... this is another extreme and stupid).

Romans 8:28 says, "We know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to the purpose." In Greek the word translated "all things" refers to all matters, all persons, and all things. God the Father is sovereign and He arranges everything. He knows what we need. In His sovereignty, He causes all things, all matters, and all persons to work together for good to those who love Him and who have been called by Him to the end that He may fulfill His purpose. Don't be deceived that "for good" here refers to GOOD things. No! Everything ... all things, usually, suffering, will be used.

God has determined our destiny beforehand, and this destiny cannot be fulfilled without the divine arrangement that causes all things to work together for us. Our destiny is to be conformed to the image of the firstborn Son of God (Rom. 8:29). We are not yet fully in the image of the firstborn Son of God, but God the Father is causing all things to work together for good so that His purpose of having many sons conformed to the image of the firstborn Son may be fulfilled.

Because God's intention is to bring us into full sonship, we need to grow. No doubt, growth comes from inward nourishment, but this nourishment needs the coordination of the outward environment. Hence, there is the need of God's sovereignty to arrange our environment so that all things may work together for our good according to His purpose.

Example of Job:

Job was in the realm of building up something that was wrong. He was building up himself in his perfection, uprightness, and integrity. He thought that he was absolutely right. He was proud of what he had built up, and he trusted in that and glorified himself in that. That was his robe to cover his entire being, and that was his crown to be his glory.

Actually, Job was wrong. God in His eternal economy has no desire to build up these things. Rather, He considers all these things as frustrations and intends to strip them away from us, consuming them bit by bit. When everything is stripped away, then you will see God, and He will attract you to receive Him. Then you will have God's nature, life, element, essence, and even His being. This will cause a metabolic change within you to transform you from the present form of your human being to another form, the form of the divine being. As a result of this transformation, you will be a person reflecting God, that is, expressing Him and dispensing Him to others.


A brother's sharing (a bit off topic ... might be comforting ..)

God the Father is sovereign and He arranges everything. He knows how many hairs you need and how many children you should have. Do not complain about your children, for God will not give you more or less than you need. He is sovereign. He knows. He knows whether you need obedient children or naughty children. He knows whether you need boys or girls. Again and again I say that He knows. He causes all things, all matters, and all persons to work together for your good. It seems that God sacrifices everyone for you. To the wife her husband is a sacrifice, and to the husband his wife is a sacrifice. To the children the parents are a sacrifice, and to the parents the children are a sacrifice. Who can do such a work? Only God. I have told the Lord, “Lord, why do You sacrifice everyone just for me?” I have the inward sensation that all the brothers with whom I coordinate and even all the churches are sacrifices for me. Nevertheless, when you suffer, I suffer more. When the wife suffers loss, the husband suffers more, and when the children suffer, the parents suffer more. Praise the Lord that God causes all things, all matters, and all persons to work together for good to those who love Him and who have been called by Him to the end that He may fulfill His purpose.

God has determined our destiny beforehand, and this destiny can never be fulfilled without the divine arrangement which causes all things to work together for us. Our destiny is to be conformed to the image of the firstborn Son of God. We are not yet fully in the image of the firstborn Son of God, but God the Father is planning, molding, and performing by causing all things to work together for good. Praise the Lord! While we are growing, He is molding.

We all should be comforted. If you have a nice wife, praise the Lord for your nice wife. If you have a difficult wife, praise the Lord even more for your difficult wife. Whether you have a nice wife or a difficult wife, a nice husband or a difficult husband, obedient children or naughty children—whatever you have you should be comforted. You should tell the Lord, “Lord, I can make and I have made many mistakes, but You can never be mistaken. Even my mistakes are in Your hands. If You do not allow me to make a mistake, You just move Your little finger and change the situation and I will not make one. Everything is in Your hands.” Therefore, we all must be comforted.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 14 2011, 03:30 PM
debbieyss
post Apr 14 2011, 03:49 PM

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pehkay, I have finished reading your replies.

I need some times to digest it. Thansk a lot~ smile.gif
Jellymaker
post Apr 14 2011, 09:50 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 14 2011, 08:53 AM)
I ever thought of giving up my faith, to be honest.

There are just too many doubts and questions I have in my mind, for example why my colleague's mother-in-law was not saved when she died? My colleague's husband and her brother-in-law are christians also; A guest pastor who gave a sermon in one of the churches I visited not long ago, she and her husband attend the same church, her husband then in loves with a lady from this church and then he divorce this pastor and marry the lady, somemore the husband brings all his children and leave the pastor, now staying with this lady churchmate....etc...Many life examples come to me and I just can't believe that there is no revival or changes in these people's life, even though they hold faith to the God of universe.
*
Let me try,

A teacher have a game with the kindergarden students, It is a team game. so, the kids find their best friend to partner with. Everyone find a good partner so that they have a higher chance in winning the game. And they make a lot of noise.
The teacher can't tolerate the noise. It is a word puzzle game, and those best grade student is in one team, and the other team will have those naughty student together. It is imbalance. The teacher then manually change and set a new partner for them.
Of course the kids dislike it, but they make no noise. The game continued and it turn out to be a fair game. The kids make new friend, and they help one another. The teacher is happy with the result.

can?
mekboyz
post Apr 14 2011, 09:59 PM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Apr 13 2011, 12:40 PM)
Neither

i'm just a lonely uncle with no girl or guy frens, only epic behind keyboard. so kesian.
*
see la you wented penang never ask me out. deswai you foreverarone one
debbieyss
post Apr 14 2011, 10:52 PM

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QUOTE(Jellymaker @ Apr 14 2011, 09:50 PM)
Let me try,

A teacher have a game with the kindergarden students, It is a team game. so, the kids find their best friend to partner with. Everyone find a good partner so that they have a higher chance in winning the game. And they make a lot of noise.
The teacher can't tolerate the noise. It is a word puzzle game, and those best grade student is in one team, and the other team will have those naughty student together. It is imbalance. The teacher then manually change and set a new partner for them.
Of course the kids dislike it, but they make no noise. The game continued and it turn out to be a fair game. The kids make new friend, and they help one another. The teacher is happy with the result.

can?
*
So you are saying it's God that seperates men and divorce each loving couple?
Jellymaker
post Apr 14 2011, 11:01 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 14 2011, 10:52 PM)
So you are saying it's God that seperates men and divorce each loving couple?
*
I *think he still reserve the right to do so.
thelion4ever
post Apr 14 2011, 11:02 PM

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Ummmmmmmmmmm............question here............I keep sinning although I know its wrong and I dare not ask god for forgiveness coz I feel guilty............so how??? I'm trying to change but its hard as hell
Jellymaker
post Apr 14 2011, 11:07 PM

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QUOTE(thelion4ever @ Apr 14 2011, 11:02 PM)
Ummmmmmmmmmm............question here............I keep sinning although I know its wrong and I dare not ask god for forgiveness coz I feel guilty............so how??? I'm trying to change but its hard as hell
*
Oh, last week only, my pasture preach -> those who overcome will have <good life> , those without, will <bad life/hell> you double check with your bible. forget which verse liao. pehkay should know
thelion4ever
post Apr 14 2011, 11:12 PM

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QUOTE(Jellymaker @ Apr 14 2011, 10:07 PM)
Oh, last week only, my pasture preach -> those who overcome will have <good life> , those without, will <bad life/hell>  you double check with your bible. forget which verse liao. pehkay should know
*
Haiz..............I feel guilty doh.gif I'll pray 2night
debbieyss
post Apr 14 2011, 11:13 PM

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QUOTE(Jellymaker @ Apr 14 2011, 11:01 PM)
I *think he still reserve the right to do so.
*
And He will punish those whom He divorce and separates?


Added on April 14, 2011, 11:16 pmAnd this is God of peace?

This post has been edited by debbieyss: Apr 14 2011, 11:16 PM
mekboyz
post Apr 14 2011, 11:16 PM

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QUOTE(thelion4ever @ Apr 14 2011, 11:02 PM)
Ummmmmmmmmmm............question here............I keep sinning although I know its wrong and I dare not ask god for forgiveness coz I feel guilty............so how??? I'm trying to change but its hard as hell
*
if you dont sin then jesus would have did for nothing. remember son, jesus died for our sins to clean our slate. so ko buat rilek je its ok mang


Added on April 14, 2011, 11:24 pmbtw what do you christians think about this?

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1835861

This post has been edited by mekboyz: Apr 14 2011, 11:24 PM
thelion4ever
post Apr 14 2011, 11:30 PM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 14 2011, 10:16 PM)
if you dont sin then jesus would have did for nothing. remember son, jesus died for our sins to clean our slate. so ko buat rilek je its ok mang


Added on April 14, 2011, 11:24 pmbtw what do you christians think about this?

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1835861
*
The problem is I purposely do it although I know its wrong shocking.gif

And those NGOs really getting on my nerves.............they don't own the language
thken
post Apr 14 2011, 11:44 PM

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wahhh pehkay, why you so smart 1? sometimes really kennot brain your explanation also, which church do you go? i am kinda curios
thken
post Apr 14 2011, 11:59 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 14 2011, 11:13 PM)
And He will punish those whom He divorce and separates?


Added on April 14, 2011, 11:16 pmAnd this is God of peace?
*
but it still comes from our consequences right? He doesnt makes people divorce

couple are those who make themselves divorce, if the couple divorce, its God's plan. but if the couple manage to hold on, its still God's plan right?

but thinking back, this is a lil bit unfair to us la as a human being, sometimes is out of control, maybe due to 3rd party or other reason
thats why jesus was meant for us, He didnt died for justice, but to save us

my 2 cent only

This post has been edited by thken: Apr 15 2011, 12:05 AM
Jellymaker
post Apr 15 2011, 12:01 AM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 14 2011, 11:13 PM)
And He will punish those whom He divorce and separates?


Added on April 14, 2011, 11:16 pmAnd this is God of peace?
*
Did He say that? I do a search already. He won't punish the woman.

-Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” matthew 19

same goes as Mark 10.


man hearts were hard, and they do their own way. not woman's fault, not God's fault

This post has been edited by Jellymaker: Apr 15 2011, 12:03 AM
debbieyss
post Apr 15 2011, 09:07 AM

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QUOTE(thken @ Apr 14 2011, 11:59 PM)
but it still comes from our consequences right? He doesnt makes people divorce

couple are those who make themselves divorce, if the couple divorce, its God's plan. but if the couple manage to hold on, its still God's plan right?

but thinking back, this is a lil bit unfair to us la as a human being, sometimes is out of control, maybe due to 3rd party or other reason
thats why jesus was meant for us, He didnt died for justice, but to save us

my 2 cent only
*
QUOTE(Jellymaker @ Apr 15 2011, 12:01 AM)
Did He say that? I do a search already. He won't punish the woman.

-Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”  matthew 19

same goes as Mark 10.
man hearts were hard, and they do their own way. not woman's fault, not God's fault
*
Thanks for both of you replying my post. But still, it's unfair and painful to the women.
TShappy4ever
post Apr 15 2011, 09:19 AM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 14 2011, 09:59 PM)
see la you wented penang never ask me out. deswai you foreverarone one
*
I never went to penang wor unsure.gif

QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 15 2011, 09:07 AM)
Thanks for both of you replying my post. But still, it's unfair and painful to the women.
*
When Eve contemplated the goodness of the forbidden fruit, and gave it to Adam inspite of God's orders, its plainly unfair for God to blame Adam laugh.gif

eh, when woman cheats, divorces the husband and get half his assets, dont u think its painful for man too?
debbieyss
post Apr 15 2011, 09:26 AM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Apr 15 2011, 09:19 AM)
I never went to penang wor  unsure.gif
When Eve contemplated the goodness of the forbidden fruit, and gave it to Adam inspite of God's orders, its plainly unfair for God to blame Adam  laugh.gif

eh, when woman cheats, divorces the husband and get half his assets, dont u think its painful for man too?
*
So like the lady tempted the man, the man should stand firm and not to be tempted right? Same case to Adam and Eve, Adam should stand firm.

Yes, I do think it's painful for man, too. But I try to deal by case to case basis now. And we have to see what's the reason the women cheat. Anyway, this is not the dicussion topic here... wink.gif

This post has been edited by debbieyss: Apr 15 2011, 09:39 AM
debbieyss
post Apr 15 2011, 09:32 AM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Apr 6 2011, 12:08 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

MAN BEING CREATED TO CONTAIN GOD

In the beginning God created man neither to do good nor to do evil. Rather, God created man for His purpose. He wanted man to have fellowship with Him, to be filled with Him, to live in Him, and to be mingled with Him as one entity. Man was created for God as a vessel to contain God (Rom. 9:21, 23). This is similar to a glass being made as a vessel to contain water. It is wrong to put dirty things into the glass, but even if we put gold into it, it is still wrong. This is because the glass was made as a vessel to contain water, not other things.

Human beings were created neither to contain evil nor to contain good. We were created neither to be evil persons nor to be good persons. Then what kind of people should we be? How can a living person do neither evil nor good? Can anyone escape from good and evil? None of us can. A person who is without God cannot escape from good, evil, and death in his life. Only a person who has died does neither good nor evil.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Now I might want to ask: if God created men just to have fellowship with men, not intend to have men to do good or bad or death, then why would God be unhappy with King David for his fornication?
TShappy4ever
post Apr 15 2011, 09:57 AM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 15 2011, 09:26 AM)
So like the lady tempted the man, the man should stand firm and not to be tempted right? Same case to Adam and Eve, Adam should stand firm.

Yes, I do think it's painful for man, too. But I try to deal by case to case basis now. And we have to see what's the reason the women cheat. Anyway, this is not the dicussion topic here... wink.gif
*
That too one should see why men cheats.

Just like Adam, he knows its wrong. But makan je. why? Sometimes men are really dumb lol.
pehkay
post Apr 15 2011, 01:36 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 15 2011, 09:32 AM)
[/spoiler]
Now I might want to ask: if God created men just to have fellowship with men, not intend to have men to do good or bad or death, then why would God be unhappy with King David for his fornication?
*
How can we forget, biggrin.gif ... before God can come into man (if man have taken the tree of life), Satan as the embodiment of the tree of knowledge of good and evil ... entered, mingled, joined, and make himself one with man FIRST. (YUCK!!) biggrin.gif

In the fall man has not only a fallen human nature but also a sinful nature mixed with the satanic nature. As a result of the fall, we have been constituted sinners (Rom. 5:19). In order for a substance to be constituted in a certain way, a particular element must be added to it. By God’s creation, we were good, righteous people. However, due to the fall of Adam, sin was injected into our being and constituted us sinners. Sin has been wrought into us and constituted into our being. Therefore, sin is not merely an outward deed—it is an inward, subjective element in our constitution.

When man fell, he did not only make a mistake and do something wrong. In the fall something more serious than a mistake occurred: sin was injected into man’s being. We may think that Adam merely disobeyed God and made a mistake in taking the fruit of the tree of knowledge. We need to realize that when Adam ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge, something evil, and even satanic, entered into him. Through man’s fall an evil, satanic element was injected into mankind. The Bible calls this element sin, and sin is the very nature of Satan, the evil one. In Romans 5 through 8 there are many indications that sin is like a living person: it entered (5:12), it reigns (5:21), it can lord it over us (6:14), it deceives us (7:11), it kills us (7:11), and it dwells in us (7:17). Once sin, the evil element of Satan, was injected into man, man was constituted a sinner. Now instead of being proper human beings, we are sinners by constitution.

Sometimes believers wonder how any brother who is spiritual and experienced could fall into serious sin. We should realize that we are capable of such sin. Consider David as an example. David, of course, was an Old Testament saint. He truly was saintly and wrote many spiritual songs. But was David’s sinful nature eradicated? Certainly not. For the sake of his lust he had a certain man murdered, and then he took that man’s wife. Even someone as saintly as David was capable of such sin. David did not become saintly after committing that sin; he was saintly beforehand. Nevertheless, he still fell into sin.

IN GENERAL

Since the time of Adam, everyone born of woman bears this sinful nature; all of them are of the flesh. We cannot expect this flesh to improve. Human nature is hard to change. In fact, it will not change. The Lord Jesus said, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh.” We should focus on the word “is.” That which is born of the flesh is flesh. No matter how much a person reforms, improves, and cultivates himself, the flesh is still the flesh. No matter how much a person tries to perform charitable, benevolent acts, send relief aid, love others, or serve, he is still the flesh. Even if he can do all these things, he is still the flesh. “That which is born of the flesh is flesh.” <B>Good flesh is still flesh</B>. Since it is the flesh that is born, it will be the flesh that will result. No man on earth can change his flesh. Neither can God in heaven change man’s flesh, that is, man’s nature.

We know that the flesh is always the flesh. This is why God gave us a new life and a new nature. But what shall we do with the flesh? Since God considered it hopeless and impossible, He decided to terminate it, that is, to put it to death. There is no better way than to cause the flesh to die. Hence, “they who are of Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and its lusts.” (Gal 5:24).

This is why we need daily, gradual salvation of God's infusion into our being. When we were saved, our spirit was regenerated, but our soul will take our whole life. (offtopic ... man because very complicated after salvation having two elements (God and Satan) warring in him/her -- another time)

In conclusion, debbie, just enjoy God ... biggrin.gif ... pray to be infused with Him as your everything. Eat Him, drink Him. Forget about trying to be GOOD. The moral teachings in the Bible are the by-products of the infusion of God's element into you. But, we man, having a religious mind, made the moral teachings the center!

When you are filled with God, grow with God etc, how can you not be good? Even more, it will be spontaneous and effortless in living out Christ because your constitution is God biggrin.gif. You did not struggle to be a human because your constitution is human. Ultimately, the real goodness is God Himself. The problem is lies with our constitution.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 15 2011, 01:51 PM
debbieyss
post Apr 16 2011, 12:55 AM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Apr 15 2011, 01:36 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

In conclusion, debbie, just enjoy God ... biggrin.gif ... pray to be infused with Him as your everything. Eat Him, drink Him. Forget about trying to be GOOD. The moral teachings in the Bible are the by-products of the infusion of God's element into you. But, we man, having a religious mind, made the moral teachings the center!

When you are filled with God, grow with God etc, how can you not be good? Even more, it will be spontaneous and effortless in living out Christ because your constitution is God biggrin.gif. You did not struggle to be a human because your constitution is human. Ultimately, the real goodness is God Himself. The problem is lies with our constitution.
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I was once pretty enjoy having fellowship with God, for many years. Until one day, something happened in my life and I found out how the christians describe Jesus is entirely different from what I first know Him. My joy in Him is totally sapped off, my peace is all gone, my hope is all disappeared. Jesus, whom I first know, is the only God in my mind, ever. The Jesus that I know of is forever merciful, forever forgiving, forever patient, forever understanding, forever gentle etc, who does not look at how many times you fail to do good, who doesn't look at those ritual practices to show faith, who doesn't count on your mistakes etc. But now from all the testi and all the condemnations and judgments I received from many Christians, I was told that all these impressions I have of Jesus is NOT true.

Jesus is my only hope in life, but now I don't know to who should I cling to. I'm lost and confused. Out of a sudden I don't see any purpose or meaning in life.

Do you know Pastor Philip Mantofa? He has a testi about visiting to hell. He said there are many religious christians are actually in hell now, you get me? If you can answer me and clear my doubts about this, I will definitely get closer and closer to Him.




If you don't want to ask about the family problem (which you claim it is one sort of prosperities), fine, then I would like to know the justification in this: If salvation is guaranteed, why are these Christians in hell?

This post has been edited by debbieyss: Apr 16 2011, 12:59 AM
mekboyz
post Apr 16 2011, 01:05 AM

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debbiesys, being an atheist for more then half my life, i can honestly tell you that you do not need a god to be a good person. the question now is not whether god exists or not, but instead it is do we still need that story in today's world?

but that's my opinion la dont report me k unsure.gif
thken
post Apr 16 2011, 01:10 AM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 16 2011, 01:05 AM)
debbiesys, being an atheist for more then half my life, i can honestly tell you that you do not need a god to be a good person. the question now is not whether god exists or not, but instead it is do we still need that story in today's world?

but that's my opinion la dont report me k unsure.gif
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you are wrong, what you are looking at is just a view from the earth, and to the earth, nothing more.

what we christian believe is our current life on earth, and most importantly, our eternal life.
mekboyz
post Apr 16 2011, 01:13 AM

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QUOTE(thken @ Apr 16 2011, 01:10 AM)
you are wrong, what you are looking at is just a view from the earth, and to the earth, nothing more.

what we christian believe is our current life on earth, and most importantly, our eternal life.
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sigh. this is it isnt. why people believe in god. because without it they feel that they dont have meaning in their life. your goal in life is to enter heaven?
thken
post Apr 16 2011, 01:21 AM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 16 2011, 01:13 AM)
sigh. this is it isnt. why people believe in god. because without it they feel that they dont have meaning in their life. your goal in life is to enter heaven?
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yeah, if God didnt even promise us heaven. why should i love and obey Him at the 1st place?
thelion4ever
post Apr 16 2011, 02:18 AM

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QUOTE(thken @ Apr 16 2011, 12:21 AM)
yeah, if God didnt even promise us heaven. why should i love and obey Him at the 1st place?
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You earn your place in heaven..............Don't believe in GOD then no heaven lo laugh.gif


Added on April 16, 2011, 2:19 amBTW............anyone know any place to buy a bible in klang??

This post has been edited by thelion4ever: Apr 16 2011, 02:19 AM
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post Apr 16 2011, 10:51 AM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 16 2011, 01:05 AM)
debbiesys, being an atheist for more then half my life, i can honestly tell you that you do not need a god to be a good person. the question now is not whether god exists or not, but instead it is do we still need that story in today's world?

but that's my opinion la dont report me k unsure.gif
*
Sure, you do not need God to be a good person. But with God, you can be even more than good. Through God, nothing is impossible.

So the question of needing "that sort of story" is negligible. We know its real.

QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 16 2011, 01:13 AM)
sigh. this is it isnt. why people believe in god. because without it they feel that they dont have meaning in their life. your goal in life is to enter heaven?
*
Nope

Goal in life here is to be the salt and light. To be blessed and to be a blessing for others, while giving glory to God.
pehkay
post Apr 16 2011, 10:52 AM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 16 2011, 12:55 AM)
I was once pretty enjoy having fellowship with God, for many years. Until one day, something happened in my life and I found out how the christians describe Jesus is entirely different from what I first know Him. My joy in Him is totally sapped off, my peace is all gone, my hope is all disappeared. Jesus, whom I first know, is the only God in my mind, ever. The Jesus that I know of is forever merciful, forever forgiving, forever patient, forever understanding, forever gentle etc, who does not look at how many times you fail to do good, who doesn't look at those ritual practices to show faith, who doesn't count on your mistakes etc. But now from all the testi and all the condemnations and judgments I received from many Christians, I was told that all these impressions I have of Jesus is NOT true.

Jesus is my only hope in life, but now I don't know to who should I cling to. I'm lost and confused. Out of a sudden I don't see any purpose or meaning in life.

Do you know Pastor Philip Mantofa? He has a testi about visiting to hell. He said there are many religious christians are actually in hell now, you get me? If you can answer me and clear my doubts about this, I will definitely get closer and closer to Him.




If you don't want to ask about the family problem (which you claim it is one sort of prosperities), fine, then I would like to know the justification in this: If salvation is guaranteed, why are these Christians in hell?
*
Then, follow your spirit within. If you have lost the enjoyment, then what you are doing now, is against the divine life within.

We can bear witness to this in our experience as believers. When we were regenerated, something began to flow within us. This is because as regenerated persons, we have a flow, a current, within us. This flow is the flow of life. The more we love the Lord, spend time with Him, and contact Him, the more this current courses through us. If we check with our experience, we will realize that before we were saved, we did not have this kind of flow within. It was only from the time that we opened ourselves to the Lord and received Him as our Savior and life that this flow began within us. It was the current, the flowing, of the spiritual “electricity.” We have this experience repeatedly as Christians. Suppose we spend some time with the Lord and enjoy Him. During that time, do we not feel something flowing within us, burning within us, and even energizing us? This is the fellowship of the divine life. We as believers have the “current” of the divine life within us.

The proper way to experience Christ as life is to have this flow within us. If we do not have this current flowing within us, something is wrong. Just as a room may be installed with electricity but may not have the electrical current in operation, we may have Christ as the divine life but lose the fellowship of the divine life. If we check with our experience, we will realize that this is truly the case. Having the flow is just like breathing: the air is all around us, but unless we breathe, there is no way to take it in. The way to know whether we are in the fellowship, living by Christ, and experiencing Christ is simply to check whether there is a flow within. Do we have the current within us? If we do not have the flow or if the flow is ebbing, we must cry out to the Lord and open to Him.

The Fellowship of Life Resulting in Joy

When you have the flow of life, you will have joy. When I see you with a long face instead of a shining face, I know that you have lost the inward flow. If you have the inward flow, regardless of your situation, you will be full of joy. Indeed, your having joy means that you are in the flow, in the fellowship of the divine life.

Christians, as a rule, must be joyful persons; they must be persons who are full of joy at all times. Sometimes we are so full of joy that we feel we will burst unless we shout “Hallelujah!” “Praise the Lord!” or “Amen!” Sometimes we are so full of joy that our silence must cease and we must bubble over by speaking. As Christians, we should not be so silent. Because we are so full of the current, flowing, and bubbling of the divine life within us, instead of being quiet, we must shout and speak. You will find that the more you express what is flowing within, the more the fellowship of life will flow within you. This is what it is to be a Christian in the fellowship of the divine life.

----------------------------------------------------
I won't trust all these videos. Always check the Word of God and the feeling in your spirit. Once you touched God, you are saved eternally. Of course, there is the matter of the reward of the kingdom / dispensational punishments in the 1000 years millennium, this has nothing do with salvation and going to hell.

Be assured of your salvation!

I will use the next thread to post a excerpt of an article on eternal salvation ...



pehkay
post Apr 16 2011, 10:57 AM

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The believers in Christ have been saved with security, the security of being saved once forever. God’s salvation is eternal. Once we have received this salvation, it is secured eternally. This is proved by twelve things:

(1) By the Invariable God

Our salvation is secured by the invariable God Himself. James 1:17 says, “All good giving and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the lights, with whom is no variableness or shadow cast by turning.” Here giving refers to the act of giving, and the gift, to the thing given. The lights in this verse denote the heavenly luminaries. The Father is the Creator, the source, of these shining bodies. With Him there is no shadow cast by turning, as there is with the heavenly orbs in the moon turning its dark side to us or in the sun being eclipsed by the moon, for He is not variable, not changeable. God, the unchangeable One (Mal. 3:6), has saved us, and our condition and situation cannot affect His nature or change what He has done for us.

(2) By God’s Unchanging Will

God’s eternal salvation is secured by the unchanging will of God. Ephesians 1:5 tells us that we were predestinated according to God’s will. In John 6:39 the Lord Jesus says, “This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all which He has given Me I shall lose nothing, but shall raise it up in the last day.” The Lord’s word indicates that the Father’s will is that none of those whom He has given the Son should be lost. This is the will of God concerning our salvation. God’s will is more steady and stable than a rock. Although heaven and earth may be removed, God’s will, which is unchanging, remains forever.

(3) By God’s Inseparable Love

The salvation we have received of God is also secured by God’s inseparable love. First John 4:10 says, “In this is love, not that we have loved God, but that He loved us, and sent His Son a propitiation concerning our sins.” The word “this” refers to the following fact: not that we have loved God, but that He loved us, and sent His Son a propitiation concerning our sins. In this fact is the higher and nobler love of God.

Romans 8:35-39 reveals that God’s love is inseparable. Nothing is able to separate us from the love of God. Verses 38 and 39 say, “I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” We are God’s beloved ones, and nothing can separate us from His love. Once God loves us, He loves us forever with an eternal, inseparable love. Therefore, God’s salvation is secured by His love. This means that our eternal security is the love of God. We may be assured that nothing will separate us from the love of God, because this love does not derive from us or depend on us but is derived from God and depends on Him. This love was initiated by God in eternity.

In Romans 8:39 Paul points out that the inseparable love of God is in Christ Jesus our Lord. If the love of God were shown apart from Christ, there would be problems, for apart from Christ, even a sin such as losing our temper would separate us from the love of God. However, the love of God is not merely the love of God itself but the love of God which is in Christ Jesus. Because the love of God is in Christ Jesus, we may be assured that nothing can separate us from it. Hence, God’s inseparable love is a vital factor in the security of our salvation.

(4) By God’s Irrevocable Calling

God’s salvation is secured by His irrevocable calling, which is based on His selection. God selected us, chose us, before the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4). It was not we who selected Him but He who selected us (John 15:16). His selection is not of our works but of Himself. God has called us not according to our works but according to His own purpose (2 Tim. 1:9). This calling is irrevocable. “The free gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable” (Rom. 11:29). God will never repent of it nor regret having called us. His calling has nothing to do with our works; our works cannot affect God’s calling, for it is irrevocable. Hence, God’s calling, being initiated by God, not by us, is the security of our salvation.

(5) By God’s Unchallengeable Justification

God’s eternal salvation is secured by His unchallengeable justification. Justification is God’s action in approving the believers according to the standard of His righteousness. The righteousness of God is revealed to faith (Rom. 1:16-17). For the showing forth of His righteousness, God must justify us, and He has justified us who believe in the Lord Jesus (Rom. 3:26). It is the righteous God who has justified us (Rom. 8:33). His righteousness is the foundation of His throne (Psa. 89:14). God’s throne is established forever and nothing can shake it. Our salvation, being secured by God’s righteousness and His unchallengeable justification, is as unshakable as God’s throne.

(6) By God’s Almighty Hand

The believers’ salvation is also secured by God’s almighty hand. In John 10:29, the Lord Jesus, referring to His sheep, says, “My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all, and no one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand.” God the Father is more powerful than anything. He has a mighty arm, and strong is His hand (Psa. 89:13). No one can pluck us out of His hand.

(7) By God’s Eternal Life

Our salvation is secured by God’s eternal life, by the life of God. The Lord Jesus said, “I give to them eternal life, and they shall by no means perish forever” (John 10:28). The divine life which we have received is eternal, and something eternal cannot be changed. Therefore, the fact that the divine life is eternal is a vital element in the security of our salvation.

To say that once we are saved we can be lost again means that the eternal life which has been given to us would be called back. But eternal life will not be recalled once it has been given to us. God’s eternal life is the security of our salvation. As long as we have eternal life, we have eternal security, and we shall never perish.

(8) By God’s Unbreakable Covenant

Our salvation is secured by the unbreakable covenant of God. God has saved us by His new covenant (Heb. 8:8-13). It has definitely been covenanted that He has written the law of life within us and that He will never remember our sins. As the faithful God, He will never break His covenant (Psa. 89:34). God is bound not only by His righteousness but also by His faithfulness. Hence, His unbreakable covenant with His faithfulness is a security of our eternal salvation.

(9) By Christ’s Perfect and Complete Redemption

Another matter that secures our salvation is Christ’s perfect and complete redemption. Our condition may change, but Christ’s redemption, being perfect and complete, cannot be changed. Christ died for us (Rom. 8:34), and the redemption accomplished by His death is an eternal redemption (Heb. 9:12). By offering Himself once to God Christ has perfected us forever (Heb. 10:14), and His eternal redemption issues in our eternal salvation (Heb. 5:9). Thus, Christ is able to save us to the uttermost, not only in extent but also in time (Heb. 7:25).

(10) By Christ’s Eternal Salvation

The believers are saved with security by Christ’s eternal salvation. Hebrews 5:9 tells us that Christ is the “cause of eternal salvation.” This verse speaks not of everlasting salvation but of eternal salvation, of which all the effects, benefits, and issues are of an eternal nature, transcending the conditions and limitations of time.

The eternal salvation we have in Christ is based on the eternal redemption He has accomplished for us, which is much better than the temporary atonement carried out by the priests according to the order of Aaron. That temporary atonement covered sin but never put it away, whereas Christ’s eternal redemption has put away sin, solving the problem of sin forever. Furthermore, Christ’s eternal salvation is not merely an objective redemption to solve our problem of sin on the negative side but also a subjective salvation to save us into His perfection and glorification on the positive side. Such an eternal salvation is not limited by time and space, for it is all-embracing with the divine element and nature. The divine element and nature of Christ are the basic constituents of His eternal salvation, which not only saves us from negative things but also saves us into positive things, even into God Himself. Such a saving is all-embracing, not limited by time and space.

(11) By Christ’s Mighty Hand

In John 10:28b the Lord Jesus declares concerning His believers, “No one shall snatch them out of My hand.” The Son’s mighty hand is for our protection. Not only the Father’s hand but also the Lord’s hand will keep us from perishing. No one can snatch us out of the Father’s hand nor out of the Lord’s hand. We are secured by two divine hands, the Father’s hand of love and the Son’s hand of grace, both of which are powerful to keep. Because the hands of the Father and the Son will never fail, the believers are eternally secured and will never perish.

(12) By Christ’s Unfailing Promise

Finally, our salvation is secured by Christ’s unfailing promise. The Lord Jesus said, “All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and him that comes to Me I will by no means cast out” (John 6:37). Here we see that the Lord Jesus promised that He will never reject or forsake anyone who comes to Him.

All the verses concerning the twelve factors of the security of our salvation are clear and unambiguous. These verses give us a solid foundation for the security of our salvation, and nothing can annul them. Therefore, all the believers in Christ may have the proper faith to believe that God’s salvation is eternal.
debbieyss
post Apr 16 2011, 04:57 PM

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pehkay, thanks for your explanation!

I still have one more question then:

QUOTE
The Narrow Door
22 Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. 23 Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”

  He said to them, 24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. 25 Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’

  “But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’

  26 “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’

  27 “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’

  28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. 29 People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. 30 Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last.”


Mind to explain who are these people that gnashing of teeth? Are they Christians who do not do God's will? If yes, then that means even one has accepted salvation, because of his works not divine enough, he lost his salvation, which doesn't go align with the 12 secured salvation quotes.

This post has been edited by debbieyss: Apr 16 2011, 04:57 PM
SUSDeadlocks
post Apr 17 2011, 11:04 AM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 16 2011, 04:57 PM)
pehkay, thanks for your explanation!

I still have one more question then:
Mind to explain who are these people that gnashing of teeth? Are they Christians who do not do God's will? If yes, then that means even one has accepted salvation, because of his works not divine enough, he lost his salvation, which doesn't go align with the 12 secured salvation quotes.
*
Let's just say that the place you're referring to isn't really the "Hell" most people believe about.
mumeichan
post Apr 17 2011, 01:58 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 16 2011, 04:57 PM)
pehkay, thanks for your explanation!

I still have one more question then:
Mind to explain who are these people that gnashing of teeth? Are they Christians who do not do God's will? If yes, then that means even one has accepted salvation, because of his works not divine enough, he lost his salvation, which doesn't go align with the 12 secured salvation quotes.
*
When you read the Bible, is salvation "going to heaven" or "not going to hell" or something else?

When the great Prophets did not understand the Lord, they prayed for wisdom and understanding.

debbieyss
post Apr 17 2011, 07:07 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Apr 17 2011, 11:04 AM)
Let's just say that the place you're referring to isn't really the "Hell" most people believe about.
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QUOTE(mumeichan @ Apr 17 2011, 01:58 PM)
When you read the Bible, is salvation "going to heaven" or "not going to hell" or something else?

When the great Prophets did not understand the Lord, they prayed for wisdom and understanding.
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I don't get what you both are trying to explain.
toda_II
post Apr 17 2011, 10:19 PM

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i gepo a bit: which part u dont understand? tongue.gif
mumeichan
post Apr 18 2011, 02:02 AM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 17 2011, 07:07 PM)
I don't get what you both are trying to explain.
*
First part was just a question, what is salvation to you? When Jesus came down to Earth, what did he save us from?

Second part was that we humans can only understand just so much of the scripture. And there is alot with cannot understand through reasoning alone or at least using the reasoning and logic we use for all the things around us. I haven't had the time to read all of pehkay's responses and I'd like to answer some of your questions too, but in any case, if you know God is real, then you can build a relationship with them. Like the Prophets, they went born with all the wisdom and understanding the ever needed and just spoke them all out. The also had visions and revelations they did not understand. They also had questions that weren't addressed in any scripture they had before them. So they prayed and asked God for answer, wisdom and understanding. God may not have given you dreams or visions, but he has given you the Bible. And what we can do to help you understand the Bible and how it applies in your life and how it answers your questions is just as much as God has revealed to us. And this may or may not satisfy the things you want to know. I or anyone else can also pull out a few ambiguous bible passages and read anything into it. You'd be surprised how people use passages in Isaiah to claim they're the manifestation of some prophecy made by Isaiah. So, in addition to asking questions here or in church or anywhere else, it's really important to pray about it. God isn't a silent God. He's answered me and many other people in ways ranging from very vaguely to very directly. He's in everyone one of us. Of course he's placed people on earth to guide others. We can be attentive to these guidance, but ultimately we don't become followers of the leaders on earth. We're led by the God.


SUSKal-el
post Apr 18 2011, 02:18 AM

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have you guys started planning on what to do in heaven?

its gonna be pretty boring you know...
mumeichan
post Apr 18 2011, 04:02 AM

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QUOTE(Kal-el @ Apr 18 2011, 02:18 AM)
have you guys started planning on what to do in heaven?

its gonna be pretty boring you know...
*
No not yet. I dunno maybe play tiv tac toe with Jesus? When the time comes we'll know
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post Apr 18 2011, 04:05 AM

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Doesn't know there is a christian thread here. So cool rclxms.gif
SUSDeadlocks
post Apr 18 2011, 06:31 AM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 17 2011, 07:07 PM)
I don't get what you both are trying to explain.
*
Let's just say I do not believe the "Hell" most people have their impression about.

This is because of that the idea of polarisation between heaven and hell were only advocated so much in the Middle ages, but never the early chronology depicted in the Bible.

The lack of advocacy of the disciples of Jesus of how heaven and hell which were polarised compared to the ones who advocated it in the dark ages GOT ME REALLY SUSPICIOUS.

I believe in Jesus Christ, but I do not believe the "Hell" that many people had impression on.

Call it instinct, but I do not find the advocacy of issues to be believable, because those who are in wisdom will understand that it is only INSTANT GRATIFICATION through MARKETING.

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Apr 18 2011, 06:35 AM
mumeichan
post Apr 18 2011, 06:58 AM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Apr 18 2011, 06:31 AM)
Let's just say I do not believe the "Hell" most people have their impression about.

This is because of that the idea of polarisation between heaven and hell were only advocated so much in the Middle ages, but never the early chronology depicted in the Bible.

The lack of advocacy of the disciples of Jesus of how heaven and hell which were polarised compared to the ones who advocated it in the dark ages GOT ME REALLY SUSPICIOUS.

I believe in Jesus Christ, but I do not believe the "Hell" that many people had impression on.

Call it instinct, but I do not find the advocacy of issues to be believable, because those who are in wisdom will understand that it is only INSTANT GRATIFICATION through MARKETING.
*
Heaven and hell is indeed a topic with a lot of confusion. A reason for it is because the people who translated the Bible translated many things to mean hell. I would say one would need a few read through of the Bible and knowledge about ancient Hebrew, Greek, Latin and understanding about early Judaism to get the idea of how the idea of hell changed over time. And also one has to consider why Bible translators choose to translate the Bible in a certain way. We can use a translated Bible, and say screw the interpretations of the translators and proceed to reverse-translate it using haphazard knowledge. And for this very reason, I believe such topical studies cannot be done through listening to people lecturing about it. It's something that must be initiated with clear purpose of understanding God more and willing to invest alot of time into it with one or more partners who are not afraid to challenge doctrines, yet willing to understand how the doctrines come into place in the beginning.

Personally I'm with aiyume that this should be a chat thread and serious theological stuff should go to RWI. I also think that atheistic stuff should go to RWI too. It's not quite appropriate to have part of this to be relax and chit chat, then comes some serious theological discussion and some contemptuous from atheist.

For whatever reason you do not believe in God and whatever your motivation is to enlighten us that God does not exist, this really isn't the place for it. And if you do not believe in God, you do not have to put us down by being silly here. And if you seriously think you have the duty to prove to us that God does not exist, then being more respectful might be the first step you want to consider. Otherwise, you're simply trolling in the thread.
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QUOTE(jdreamer)
We can talk about lots of things here, for examples.. gospels songs (Hillsong, etc), choirs, churches, bible knowledges, or even share our expriences with the Holy Spirit, our Lord, etc. Plus, if there's a chance, we may also go for a gathering or something, or even a trip together like visiting the other churches or do some charity works together. U can also inform us about any events that going on in ur churches, or any concerts & conferences in Malaysia.  smile.gif

Remember, we're not promoting Christianity or trying to evangelize by this thread as its not allowed here. Therefore, we're only here to gather and talk about our daily life, our churches, gospel songs, events going on, or the concerts and conferences, even camps, etc.  tongue.gif

*I'm not trying to make this thread into a flaming zone, but still, we welcome any religious forumers to join us here. So, if ur intended to come in here to insult our religion, please stay away from this thread.  wink.gif  And if u have any questions about the gospel songs, or even the churches, environments around the churches etc, feel free to ask.  smile.gif
This post has been edited by mumeichan: Apr 18 2011, 07:23 AM
hotjake
post Apr 18 2011, 10:10 AM

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QUOTE(mumeichan @ Apr 18 2011, 06:58 AM)
For whatever reason you do not believe in God and whatever your motivation is to enlighten us that God does not exist, this really isn't the place for it. And if you do not believe in God, you do not have to put us down by being silly here. And if you seriously think you have the duty to prove to us that God does not exist, then being more respectful might be the first step you want to consider. Otherwise, you're simply trolling in the thread.
it cuts both ways mang
LIKEWISE, for whatever reason theists do not see eye to eye with atheists' stand on God's non-existence and whatever your motivation (however good it seems at first - always turns into atheist bashing in the end) is to enlighten us that God does exist, Atheism tereds opened by theists for the sole purpose of bashing and ridicule or using pseudo-Science like Intelligent Design as justification tool (the various holybooks are enough) only serve to increase the disillutionment and hate even more. We are sure you believe in God and understand why, you do not have to put us down just because we are different. Just as religious bigots exists so those overly indulgent atheists that cross the border of civility. And i'm sure you owe it to your God to spread the good news especially to non-believers i.e. atheists and whatnot, then being more understanding might be the first step you'd want to consider. in /k trolls beget trolls something /k tards have grown accustomed to unless a MIRACLE happens.

'So many gods, so many creeds, so many paths that wind and wind while just the art of being kind is all the sad world needs' ~ Ella Wheeler Wilcox

icon_question.gif Thank you very much




mumeichan
post Apr 18 2011, 11:31 AM

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QUOTE(hotjake @ Apr 18 2011, 10:10 AM)
it cuts both ways mang
LIKEWISE, for whatever reason theists do not see eye to eye with atheists' stand on God's non-existence and whatever your motivation (however good it seems at first - always turns into atheist bashing in the end) is to enlighten us that God does exist, Atheism tereds opened by theists for the sole purpose of bashing and ridicule or using pseudo-Science like Intelligent Design as justification tool (the various holybooks are enough) only serve to increase the disillutionment and hate even more. We are sure you believe in God and understand why, you do not have to put us down just because we are different. Just as religious bigots exists so those overly indulgent atheists that cross the border of civility. And i'm sure you owe it to your God to spread the good news especially to non-believers i.e. atheists and whatnot, then being more understanding might be the first step you'd want to consider. in /k trolls beget trolls something /k tards have grown accustomed to unless a MIRACLE happens.

'So many gods, so many creeds, so many paths that wind and wind while just the art of being kind is all the sad world needs' ~ Ella Wheeler Wilcox

icon_question.gif Thank you very much
*
I totally agree with you. It cuts both ways. Theist doing atheist basing is not acceptable either. It's stupid. Like I said, I totally see where how people can get really passionate about atheism and how it leads to ridiculing too. I lost my faith once and I lost it because I began to subscribe to the very arguments I was against. Theist, atheist and whatever other kinds of grouping always will lead to disparaging of other groups that hold conflicting opinions. Sometimes people don't do it intentionally, it just snowball and people bandwagon on. I can't eliminate trolls, but I can make a stand so that people who might not want to troll in the first place don't.
SUSKal-el
post Apr 18 2011, 01:21 PM

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QUOTE(mumeichan @ Apr 18 2011, 04:02 AM)
No not yet. I dunno maybe play tiv tac toe with Jesus? When the time comes we'll know
*
meh, super boring.

also jesus uses hacks to win
pehkay
post Apr 18 2011, 02:15 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 16 2011, 04:57 PM)
pehkay, thanks for your explanation!

I still have one more question then:
Mind to explain who are these people that gnashing of teeth? Are they Christians who do not do God's will? If yes, then that means even one has accepted salvation, because of his works not divine enough, he lost his salvation, which doesn't go align with the 12 secured salvation quotes.
*
Wow, you are fast in pointing it out (I guess you might have thought of it) I alluded that in "Of course, there is the matter of the reward of the kingdom / dispensational punishments in the 1000 years millennium, this has nothing do with salvation and going to hell." It is a large subject.

Saved but Not Receiving the Kingdom Reward

In the New Testament, from Matthew to Revelation, there is a line of thought concerning reward, and we would do well to pay attention to it. In Matthew 5 and 6 the Lord Jesus speaks repeatedly concerning reward (5:12, 46; 6:1-2, 5, 16). In 1 Corinthians 3:8 Paul says, “Each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.” Then in verse 14 he goes on to say, “If anyone’s work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward.” In Revelation 22:12 the Lord Jesus says, “Behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me to render to each one as his work is.”

There is a great difference between salvation and reward. “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; not of works that no one should boast” (Eph. 2:8-9). This clearly and emphatically reveals that eternal salvation is altogether by grace through faith, having nothing to do with our works. Nothing that we have done, are doing, or will do can affect our eternal salvation (a gift) which is absolutely a matter of God’s grace (a gift) through our faith (a gift) in the Lord Jesus. God has imparted to us the ability to believe in the Lord Jesus, and by believing we are saved and have life inHis name (Acts 16:31; John 20:31).

Once we have been saved, we cannot be lost; that is, we cannot suffer eternal perdition. Those who have been saved by grace through faith will never perish (John 10:28-29). Our eternal salvation is forever secured by the will of God, by the selection and calling of God, by the love and grace of God, by the righteousness of God, by the covenant of God, by the power of God, by the life of God, by God Himself, by the redemption of Christ, by the power of Christ, and by the promise of Christ. We have been born of God, and we cannot be unborn. By faith we have been joined to the Lord to become one spirit with Him in a marvelous organic union. This joining and union are eternally secure in the divine life. Regarding eternal salvation in relation to the kingdom re- ward, we must avoid extreme theological views. One extreme view insists that we are saved eternally and that we can lose neither our salvation nor the kingdom reward. The other extreme view claims that salvation is conditional upon good behavior and that we can lose both our salvation and the kingdom reward. The truth in the Bible is balanced: eternal salvation is by grace through faith, and it cannot be lost; the kingdom reward involves righteousness and works, and it can be forfeited.

A Reward according to Our Works

Hebrews 10:35 says, “Do not cast away therefore your boldness, which has great reward.” This reward is the kingdom reward, which is something in addition to eternal salvation. Whereas eternal salvation is by grace through faith, having nothing to do with our works, the kingdom reward is given for our work as believers in Christ. According to 1 Corinthians 3:8 we will be re-warded according to our labor, for the Lord will give to us according to our work (Rev. 22:12). Although we are saved, we may not receive the kingdom reward because we are devoid of the work which the Lord can approve (1 Cor. 3:15; Matt. 7:21-23). If we do not labor by the Lord’s all-sufficient grace to carry out His economy (1 Cor. 15:10; 2 Cor. 12:9) and if our work does not remain after it has been tried by fire, we will not receive the reward of the kingdom. It is contrary to the Scriptures to teach that all believers will receive the kingdom reward no matter how they live and work after they are saved. The basic truth concerning the kingdom reward is this— receiving the kingdom reward is not a matter of God’s saving grace but of our subsequent work. If we are faithful servants in this age, we will enjoy the kingdom with the Lord in the coming age (Matt. 25:21, 23). If we are not faithful, we will suffer loss and undergo some kind of dispensational punishment (v. 30).

The kingdom reward will be decided at the judgment seat of Christ (2 Cor. 5:10), where the Lord will “bring to light the hidden things of darkness and make manifest the counsels of the hearts” (1 Cor. 4:5). At His coming back, the Lord Jesus will set up His judgment seat and judge all the believers with respect to their life and work. There, at the judgment seat, the decision will be made regarding the kingdom reward, with the Lord, the righteous Judge, determining who will receive the kingdom reward (2 Tim. 4:8). Those who receive this reward will enter into the joy of the Lord and reign with Him as His co-kings, sitting with Him on His throne. This will be the fulfillment of the Lord’s promise in Revelation 3:21: “He who overcomes, to him I will give to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat with My Father on His throne.”

Moses looked away to the kingdom reward (Heb. 11:26) and Paul endeavored to obtain it (1 Cor. 9:24-27). Throughout the course of his Christian life, Paul was running the race for the kingdom reward, not having the assurance that he had laid hold of this reward. Only at the end of his life, immediately before his martyrdom, did he know for certain that the crown of righteousness had been prepared for him and for all who love the Lord’s appearing (2 Tim. 4:7-8). With Paul as our pattern (1 Tim. 1:16), we should run the race set before us, not trusting in ourselves or assuming that all is well simply because we are saved. We may receive the kingdom reward or we may not. For all of us, this matter is pending the Lord’s decision at His judgment seat. The Lord’s word concerning the kingdom reward is serious and weighty. It is truly a word of righteousness...

This balanced understanding solves both extreme views: Calvinism vs Arminism. It will help you now to understand passages especially in Matthew 24 and 25, other portions of Matthews and Hebrews. (Your question) Weeping indicates regret, and gnashing of teeth indicates self blame.

If we cooperate with God's supplying grace, we will mature in life in the church age, and this earlier maturity in life will constitute a prize with which the Lord will reward us at His coming back. However, those who do not mature in life in the church age will not be ready at the Lord's coming back to enter into the millennial kingdom and share in the divine blessings of that age as a prize. Therefore, during the millennial kingdom their names will be erased from the book of life. After being disciplined by the Lord and growing in life unto maturity during the millennial kingdom, they will share in the divine blessings in the stage of eternity. They did not cooperate with the Lord in the church age, will be dispensationally disciplined by the Lord during the millennial kingdom and will miss the divine blessings in that stage. However, the names of those who have lived an overcoming life in the church age will remain in the book of life during the coming age of the kingdom.

To participate in the coming kingdom is also to gain our soul, to save our soul, and to enjoy the salvation of our soul. If today we love only the Lord and not our soul, that is, our self, and if we live by Him and according to His standard, then when He comes back He will reward us with the kingdom. In the kingdom we shall have no problems, sorrows, or sufferings in our soul, for at that time we shall gain our soul, we shall save our soul, and we shall enjoy the salvation of our soul. However, if we are defeated believers, we shall be punished during the kingdom age, and that punishment will involve our soul, with the gnashing of teeth as a sign of suffering in our soul. (Matthew 16).

The question: will you be gained by the Lord in these 70-80 years or be perfected during the 1000 years? .... The good news, all will be matured as the New Jerusalem after the millennium.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 18 2011, 04:05 PM
TShappy4ever
post Apr 18 2011, 03:50 PM

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QUOTE(Kal-el @ Apr 18 2011, 02:18 AM)
have you guys started planning on what to do in heaven?

its gonna be pretty boring you know...
*
ohm and you believe there exists a heaven? rolleyes.gif

tell me, why do you say its boring? whistling.gif
TShappy4ever
post Apr 18 2011, 03:52 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Apr 18 2011, 06:31 AM)
Let's just say I do not believe the "Hell" most people have their impression about.

This is because of that the idea of polarisation between heaven and hell were only advocated so much in the Middle ages, but never the early chronology depicted in the Bible.

The lack of advocacy of the disciples of Jesus of how heaven and hell which were polarised compared to the ones who advocated it in the dark ages GOT ME REALLY SUSPICIOUS.

I believe in Jesus Christ, but I do not believe the "Hell" that many people had impression on.

Call it instinct, but I do not find the advocacy of issues to be believable, because those who are in wisdom will understand that it is only INSTANT GRATIFICATION through MARKETING.
*
There's hell, hades and Lake of Fire. Take your pick

QUOTE(hotjake @ Apr 18 2011, 10:10 AM)
it cuts both ways mang
LIKEWISE, for whatever reason theists do not see eye to eye with atheists' stand on God's non-existence and whatever your motivation (however good it seems at first - always turns into atheist bashing in the end) is to enlighten us that God does exist, Atheism tereds opened by theists for the sole purpose of bashing and ridicule or using pseudo-Science like Intelligent Design as justification tool (the various holybooks are enough) only serve to increase the disillutionment and hate even more. We are sure you believe in God and understand why, you do not have to put us down just because we are different. Just as religious bigots exists so those overly indulgent atheists that cross the border of civility. And i'm sure you owe it to your God to spread the good news especially to non-believers i.e. atheists and whatnot, then being more understanding might be the first step you'd want to consider. in /k trolls beget trolls something /k tards have grown accustomed to unless a MIRACLE happens.

'So many gods, so many creeds, so many paths that wind and wind while just the art of being kind is all the sad world needs' ~ Ella Wheeler Wilcox

icon_question.gif Thank you very much
*
You're not different. You're just not being indifferent enough to our views on your kind through our bible. Why should it bother you if we look at disbelievers as "lost souls" if you do not even subscribe to our beliefs? K.P.C buat apa?
pehkay
post Apr 18 2011, 03:58 PM

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QUOTE(mumeichan @ Apr 17 2011, 01:58 PM)
When you read the Bible, is salvation "going to heaven" or "not going to hell" or something else?

When the great Prophets did not understand the Lord, they prayed for wisdom and understanding.
*
Haha, someone brave enough to ask. Yes, salvation is not "going to heaven" (but there is heaven and lake of fire ...). rclxms.gif Mind you, this statement will riles a lot of feathers and thrashed years of Christian "traditions".... and offends a lot of dear brothers and sister here ...

The ultimate consummation of everything in the Bible is the New Jerusalem. What is the New Jerusalem in a nutshell:

a) it is a mingling, a constitution, of the Triune God with His chosen and redeemed people”

b) it is a composition of God’s chosen, redeemed, regenerated, sanctified, transformed, and glorified people who have been deified

c) the ultimate consummation of God’s complete salvation —the crystallization of the union and mingling of God with man, the processed and consummated Triune God with His regenerated, transformed, conformed, and glorified tripartite elect.

The New Jerusalem is not a physical city, as commonly believed by Christians. Rather, the book of Revelation indicates that the New Jerusalem is a divine and spiritual sign. The revelation of the entire book of Revelation is mainly made known to us by signs (Rev. 1:1) symbolizing important persons and things, such as the golden lampstands in 1:12, signifying the churches bearing the shining testimony of Jesus Christ; the stars in 1:16, signifying the bright and shining messengers of the churches; the mysterious Babylon the Great in 17:5, signifying religious Rome; and the bride in 19:7, signifying the overcoming saints as the spouse of Christ. Hence, the New Jerusalem also should be a sign, signifying the ultimate consummation of the divine Trinity dispensing Himself into His chosen people.

The Tabernacle of God
The New Jerusalem has two natures, humanity and divinity. According to its humanity, the New Jerusalem is the tabernacle of God among men-the dwelling place of God in His humanity among men on the earth (Rev. 21:3). In the Bible, the tabernacle is a human dwelling place. The New Jerusalem is a human dwelling place because it is constituted with humanity. It is God's human dwelling place on earth. John 1:14 says that God was incarnated in the flesh to tabernacle among men. He is God, but He has become a man. He partook of humanity as His nature, so He dwells in humanity.

The Temple of God
According to its divinity, the New Jerusalem is the temple of God as the dwelling place of His redeemed elect (Rev. 21:22). The holy city is the temple of God because it is divine. It is the temple of God, yet it is the dwelling place of His redeemed. How could this be? Because this is God's temple, the dweller must be divine, but what about us? Are we divine or human? According to its humanity, the New Jerusalem is the tabernacle, but God dwells in the tabernacle. God can dwell in a human dwelling place because He has become a man. According to the divinity of the New Jerusalem, it is a temple for God to dwell in. If you are only human and not divine, you cannot dwell in the temple. We human beings can dwell in a divine temple because we have been made God in life and in nature but not in the Godhead. The New Jerusalem is a mutual abode. According to its humanity, it is a human tabernacle. According to its divinity, it is a divine temple. It is a human dwelling place, but the Dweller is God. How can God dwell in a human place? Because He became a man. In the same way, how can we humans dwell in God's temple? Because we have been made God. This is the mutual abiding of God and man (John 14:20)

The Human Wife of the Redeeming God
According to its humanity, the New Jerusalem is the human wife (with the divine life and nature) of the Lamb- the redeeming God (21:2, 9). This human wife can marry a divine Person because she has the divine life and nature. This qualifies her to match the redeeming God. On the one hand, she is human. On the other hand, she is divine. Because she is human, she can be the redeeming God's human wife. Because she is divine, she can marry Him, a divine Person.

The Divine Husband of God's Redeemed Elect
According to its divinity, it is the divine Husband (the redeeming God in His consummated embodiment, Christ, with the human life and nature) of God's redeemed elect. The wife is human, and the Husband is divine. How can a human wife marry a divine Person? Because she has the divine Person's divine nature and life. How can the same entity also be a husband? Because the New Jerusalem is divine. The divine God is a part of its constituent. Therefore, on the one hand, it is a wife. On the other hand, it is a husband. The New Jerusalem is the wife according to its humanity and the husband according to its divinity. But as the divine Husband, the New Jerusalem has the human life and nature. In its humanity and in its divinity it is both a mutual abode and a couple, a wife and a husband.

You will notice its base is gold, silver and precious stone. The river going forth from Garden of Eden in Genesis issues in three precious materials, which typify the Triune God as the basic elements of the structure of God’s eternal building—Gen. 2:12; Rev. 21:11, 18-21:

Gold typifies God the Father with His divine nature as the base of God’s eternal building—2 Pet. 1:4.
Bdellium, a pearl-like material produced from the resin of a tree, typifies the produce of God the Son in His redeeming and life-releasing death and His life-dispensing resurrection as the entry into God’s eternal building—John 19:34; 12:24; cf. Rev. 21:21.
Onyx, a precious stone, typifies the produce of God the Spirit with His transforming work for the building up of God’s eternal building—2 Cor. 3:18; Rom. 12:2.

This is mentioned by Paul in 1 Cor. 3 and the base of the city of New Jerusalem is constituted of gold, silver and precious stones.

1) New Jerusalem is of pure gold; it is constituted with and full of God’s life and nature. Her appearance and light are like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone (v. 11). The foundations of the wall of the city are adorned with every precious stone, and the first foundation is jasper (v. 19). Revelation 4:2-3 says that the One who is sitting on the throne is like a jasper stone in appearance. Hence, the appearance of the city is God. The city proper refers to its content, which is pure gold; the wall refers to its appearance, which is precious stones. This matches the definition in the Bible. The inward nature of those who are saved is absolutely God’s golden nature, and the outward appearance is precious stones, the appearance of God. The content of the city is gold, and her appearance before the nations is precious stones; she has God’s glorious nature within and God’s glorious image without.

2) Silver signifies the redeeming Christ with all the virtues of His person and work. Today the Son of God is signified in God's building as the silver. With bdellium there was the thought of life secretion only, but with silver there is the thought of redemption, which includes the shedding of blood and the secretion of life. Although pearl is replaced with silver in 1 Corinthians because of the need for redemption, pearl was God's original concept.

Consider how a pearl is formed. An oyster living in the sea is wounded by a piece of sand. The oyster secretes life juice around the grain of sand until the sand becomes a pearl. Christ is the oyster who lived in the ocean of this world. We are the grains of sand that wound Him and, after injuring Him, stay at His wound. His life secretes His life essence, enveloping us with it layer upon layer. Eventually, after becoming fully enclosed by this life-secretion, we become a pearl (Matt. 13:46). This is the experience of regeneration. Originally, we were small pieces of sand, but we became pearls as the life juice of Christ enveloped our being. Every gate of the New Jerusalem is a pearl, signifying the entrance into the kingdom of God (Rev. 21:21). The Lord Jesus said that unless we are born anew we cannot enter into the kingdom of God (John 3:5; cf. Titus 3:5). We all have been born again and can enter into the kingdom. Furthermore, by becoming pearls, we even become the entrance itself.

Today, experiential, we seek the daily experience of the resurrection of Christ subjectively by the bountiful supply of the Spirit (the reality of resurrection) of Jesus Christ that they may be conformed to the image of the firstborn Son of God (Phil. 1:19; Rom. 8:29). We are required to do two things: to experience Christ's death subjectively in our daily walk and also to experience the power of resurrection in our daily walk.

3) Where do precious stones come from? A precious stone is a transformed item. All precious stones originally were of other materials. Some of them were formed into igneous rocks by pressure and heat. Others were formed into sedimentary rocks by pressure and by the flowing of water. All became precious stones. Diamond (Exo. 28:18) is formed out of carbon by heat and pressure. Under extreme pressure and intense heat the carbon becomes a diamond. These are the principles of the transformation of precious stones.

We, the believers in Christ, were created by God with dust (Gen. 2:7). Through our regeneration by the Spirit we became stones (John 1:42). When Peter came to the Lord, the Lord told him he was a stone. He was no longer dust. By our growth in the divine life in Christ as the living stone (1 Pet. 2:4), we are transformed into precious stones (1 Cor. 3:12a).

This transformation takes place by the Spirit (2 Cor. 3:18). With Christ there is His death and resurrection. With the Spirit there is transformation. God is triune and His intention is to work Himself into us as the gold to be the base. In other words, He works Himself into us to make us divine, golden. But how can God work Himself into us? He does this by Christ's redemption and resurrection and also by the Spirit's transformation. The Father's golden nature is the base. The Son's redemption and resurrection are the steps to work the Triune God into us. Christ died on the cross with the intention of working the Father into His believers as the golden base. Then in resurrection He became the life-giving Spirit to carry out the work of transformation.

We may have the base, redemption, and resurrection, but if we do not have transformation we are still not golden. We are dusty, because we were made by God in the old creation. But God works Himself into us as the gold through Christ's redemption and resurrection by the transformation of the Spirit. This is the working of the Triune God to bring Himself into our being and transform us altogether into His image.

..............


(This subject is too awesome and a lot to say and share e.g. its furnishing, throne, supply, etc (it's experiential today) .... but I defer to another time .. only if you are really interested ...)

How can this compare with going to heaven .... whistling.gif (sigh) here goes the bomb ....








TShappy4ever
post Apr 18 2011, 04:38 PM

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pehkay, lu tarak kerja meh? monday yet u type so long... lolz
hotjake
post Apr 18 2011, 05:57 PM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Apr 18 2011, 03:52 PM)
There's hell, hades and Lake of Fire. Take your pick
You're not different. You're just not being indifferent enough to our views on your kind through our bible. Why should it bother you if we look at disbelievers as "lost souls" if you do not even subscribe to our beliefs? K.P.C buat apa?
*
ditto your kind
TShappy4ever
post Apr 18 2011, 05:59 PM

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QUOTE(hotjake @ Apr 18 2011, 05:57 PM)
ditto your kind
*
sure thing, hellboy.
hotjake
post Apr 18 2011, 06:09 PM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Apr 18 2011, 05:59 PM)
sure thing, hellboy.
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great, biatchieangel brows.gif

This post has been edited by hotjake: Apr 18 2011, 06:09 PM
TShappy4ever
post Apr 18 2011, 06:14 PM

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QUOTE(hotjake @ Apr 18 2011, 06:09 PM)
great, biatchieangel  brows.gif
*
humans cant be angel doh.gif whistling.gif
SUSKal-el
post Apr 18 2011, 06:15 PM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Apr 18 2011, 06:14 PM)
humans cant be angel  doh.gif  whistling.gif
*
does everybody in heaven get a pair of wings?

really lazy wanna walk la
TShappy4ever
post Apr 18 2011, 06:18 PM

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QUOTE(Kal-el @ Apr 18 2011, 06:15 PM)
does everybody in heaven get a pair of wings?

really lazy wanna walk la
*
you dont need wings rclxms.gif

Proton cars will ferry u around.
Josh_M
post Apr 18 2011, 06:19 PM

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QUOTE(Kal-el @ Apr 18 2011, 06:15 PM)
does everybody in heaven get a pair of wings?

really lazy wanna walk la
*
doh.gif
SUSKal-el
post Apr 18 2011, 06:21 PM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Apr 18 2011, 06:18 PM)
you dont need wings  rclxms.gif

Proton cars will ferry u around.
*
i heard hell is where all the cool people hang out. is that true?


Josh_M
post Apr 18 2011, 06:24 PM

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QUOTE(Kal-el @ Apr 18 2011, 06:21 PM)
i heard hell is where all the cool people hang out. is that true?
*
yup you might just fit in nicely..
TShappy4ever
post Apr 18 2011, 06:26 PM

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QUOTE(Kal-el @ Apr 18 2011, 06:21 PM)
i heard hell is where all the cool people hang out. is that true?
*
Yep, very the true icon_rolleyes.gif
TShappy4ever
post Apr 18 2011, 06:31 PM

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Dalam nama Yesus Allah perkasa!



Yohanes 3:16
Karena begitu besar kasih Allah akan dunia ini, sehingga Ia telah mengaruniakan Anak-Nya yang tunggal, supaya setiap orang yang percaya kepada-Nya tidak binasa, melainkan beroleh hidup yang kekal.

Amin!
Josh_M
post Apr 18 2011, 06:48 PM

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FOUND THIS GUYS JUST WANNA SHARE IT..
toda_II
post Apr 18 2011, 07:27 PM

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We should have BM version! Pure BM version! That's Indon version!
mekboyz
post Apr 18 2011, 07:49 PM

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http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1841043
another victim of Christianity
SUSAoiota
post Apr 18 2011, 10:13 PM

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QUOTE(mumeichan @ Apr 18 2011, 06:58 AM)
Heaven and hell is indeed a topic with a lot of confusion. A reason for it is because the people who translated the Bible translated many things to mean hell. I would say one would need a few read through of the Bible and knowledge about ancient Hebrew, Greek, Latin and understanding about early Judaism to get the idea of how the idea of hell changed over time. And also one has to consider why Bible translators choose to translate the Bible in a certain way. We can use a translated Bible, and say screw the interpretations of the translators and proceed to reverse-translate it using haphazard knowledge. And for this very reason, I believe such topical studies cannot be done through listening to people lecturing about it. It's something that must be initiated with clear purpose of understanding God more and willing to invest alot of time into it with one or more partners who are not afraid to challenge doctrines, yet willing to understand how the doctrines come into place in the beginning.

Personally I'm with aiyume that this should be a chat thread and serious theological stuff should go to RWI. I also think that atheistic stuff should go to RWI too. It's not quite appropriate to have part of this to be relax and chit chat, then comes some serious theological discussion and some contemptuous from atheist.

For whatever reason you do not believe in God and whatever your motivation is to enlighten us that God does not exist, this really isn't the place for it. And if you do not believe in God, you do not have to put us down by being silly here. And if you seriously think you have the duty to prove to us that God does not exist, then being more respectful might be the first step you want to consider. Otherwise, you're simply trolling in the thread.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


QUOTE(jdreamer)
We can talk about lots of things here, for examples.. gospels songs (Hillsong, etc), choirs, churches, bible knowledges, or even share our expriences with the Holy Spirit, our Lord, etc. Plus, if there's a chance, we may also go for a gathering or something, or even a trip together like visiting the other churches or do some charity works together. U can also inform us about any events that going on in ur churches, or any concerts & conferences in Malaysia.  smile.gif

Remember, we're not promoting Christianity or trying to evangelize by this thread as its not allowed here. Therefore, we're only here to gather and talk about our daily life, our churches, gospel songs, events going on, or the concerts and conferences, even camps, etc.   tongue.gif

*I'm not trying to make this thread into a flaming zone, but still, we welcome any religious forumers to join us here. So, if ur intended to come in here to insult our religion, please stay away from this thread.  wink.gif   And if u have any questions about the gospel songs, or even the churches, environments around the churches etc, feel free to ask.   smile.gif
*
You got it all wrong about Deadlocks. He wasn't defaming Christianity or trolling.

He simply just have a different idea of what "Hell" really is.

mekboyz
post Apr 18 2011, 10:18 PM

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QUOTE(Aoiota @ Apr 18 2011, 10:13 PM)
*



You got it all wrong about Deadlocks. He wasn't defaming Christianity or trolling.

He simply just have a different idea of what "Hell" really is.
*
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL pls la boi dont try to troll a troll

aoiota = deadlocks

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1841231

damn dupe gtfo from this holy blessed thread

This post has been edited by mekboyz: Apr 18 2011, 10:19 PM
SUSAoiota
post Apr 18 2011, 10:19 PM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 18 2011, 10:18 PM)
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL pls la boi dont try to troll a troll

aoiota = deadlocks

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1841231

damn dupe gtfo from this holy blessed thread
*
Yes I am Deadlocks.

But why are you resenting me? And I even admitted that I am Deadlocks at the thread you pointed out.

What else do you want from me?

The fact here was mumeichan was replying to my post, and she misunderstood me that I was trolling, when I was only stating a different idea of Hell.

How wrong is that to you?

This post has been edited by Aoiota: Apr 18 2011, 10:21 PM
mumeichan
post Apr 18 2011, 10:21 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Apr 18 2011, 03:58 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
Ok you described what New Jerusalem is and how it's formed. I don't really see it this way but either way, what did Jesus save us from? True we do join God in a holy place after Jesus comes again. But before all that, he came the first time to save us right? Why, to save us, to offer us salvation, to redeem us, many words to use here. By what would have been different before he came? I'm asking because people see salvation = going to heaven and I agree with you that it's not, or at least it's the latter part of the picture. I think most important is to see that Jesus came to save us from sin that keep us away from God. Like you mentioned earlier, so that we're not bound to the Law of Moses anymore that judges us guilty for our sins and brings death. Saved us because no amount of animal sacrifice can forgive our sins and make us right with God. So what He really saved us from is the broken relationship between man and God. So that we can become one with God, like before Adam and Eve sinned. True he made alot of promises to for the people who glorify God and he gave alot of warning to the people who don't. But he didn't come down for that, God was already punishing and rewarding people in the past. Even the greatest of the Prophets we're perfect or sinless, so he came to pay the price for all those sins, past present and future, so all the people who have kept themselves holy can reunite with God. Why does he have to do all this complicated steps? I have no idea, it's because he wants to. I think by realizing this, everything else naturally follows.

This post has been edited by mumeichan: Apr 18 2011, 10:26 PM
mumeichan
post Apr 18 2011, 10:24 PM

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QUOTE(Aoiota @ Apr 18 2011, 10:19 PM)
Yes I am Deadlocks.

The fact here was mumeichan was replying to my post, and she misunderstood me that I was trolling, when I was only stating a different idea of Hell.

*
Err, I was replying to your hell and I agree partly with you on that. But the trolling part was a general view for all the people who post in this thread. Sorry. I should have made it clearer.

This post has been edited by mumeichan: Apr 18 2011, 10:25 PM
SUSAoiota
post Apr 18 2011, 10:25 PM

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QUOTE(mumeichan @ Apr 18 2011, 10:24 PM)
Err, I was replying to your hell part but the trolling part was a general view for all the people who post in this thread. Sorry. I should have made it clearer.
*
No worries.
TShappy4ever
post Apr 19 2011, 08:47 AM

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QUOTE(Aoiota @ Apr 18 2011, 10:19 PM)
Yes I am Deadlocks.

But why are you resenting me? And I even admitted that I am Deadlocks at the thread you pointed out.

What else do you want from me?

The fact here was mumeichan was replying to my post, and she misunderstood me that I was trolling, when I was only stating a different idea of Hell.

How wrong is that to you?
*
LOL kesian kena banned.

i oways confranted face to face with mods.. like stimix, ahwang, godfries and many more ppl. So syok and steamy... ooohlallaala
debbieyss
post Apr 19 2011, 09:02 AM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Apr 18 2011, 02:15 PM)
Wow, you are fast in pointing it out (I guess you might have thought of it)    I alluded that in "Of course, there is the matter of the reward of the kingdom / dispensational punishments in the 1000 years millennium, this has nothing do with salvation and going to hell." It is a large subject.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

This balanced understanding solves both extreme views: Calvinism vs Arminism. It will help you now to understand passages especially in Matthew 24 and 25, other portions of Matthews and Hebrews. (Your question) Weeping indicates regret, and gnashing of teeth indicates self blame.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
*
Yes, I have already thought of that, as I said, I have many many questions on my mind, and that's why you can see me replying your comments right away.

Then I have 2 questions here:
1. If hell isn't for christian who has already attained salvation, does it mean what Ps. Philip Mantofa said in his testimony - seeing religious christian in the hell, is a lie? Or an illusion only?

2. If that "Luke 13:28 - weeping and gnashing of teeth" is only indicating self blame, then who are these people that self blaming? And when and where do they self blame?
Many commentary says that this verse indicates the believers who do evil and can't enter heaven, so they are weeping and gnashing of teeth. And again, if it's works that determine human's destination, it simply means salvation is not by grace, but by works.
SUSkennyohngu
post Apr 19 2011, 09:09 AM

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morning sharing.

Galatians 3:26-28 (New International Version, ©2011)

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

daily bread:
The Purpose Of God’s Goodness
When I was growing up, we often sang a song in Sunday school that went like this: “God is good to me! God is good to me! He holds my hand and helps me stand! God is good to me!”

I need to say right away that I believe God is good and He takes delight in doing good things for people. He does indeed hold our hand in times of trouble and helps us stand against the onslaught of life’s difficulties. But I wonder if you’ve ever asked yourself, Why is He good? It certainly is not because we deserve it or because He feels the need to buy our love and allegiance with His benefits.

The psalmist prays for God to bless him so that “[the Lord’s] way may be known on earth, Your salvation among all nations” (Ps. 67:2). God’s daily blessings are proof positive that He is indeed a good God who cares for His own. But how will our world know this about God if we never praise Him for His goodness to us? (v.3).

So, the next time God blesses you, be sure to look for ways to appropriately give Him the credit. Consuming His blessings without communicating His goodness shortchanges the very purpose of His gifts of grace in our lives.

As endless as God’s blessings are,
So should my praises be
For all His daily goodnesses
That flow unceasingly! —Adams


God is good—make sure the people in your world know what He has done in your life.
mumeichan
post Apr 19 2011, 10:45 AM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 19 2011, 09:02 AM)
Yes, I have already thought of that, as I said, I have many many questions on my mind, and that's why you can see me replying your comments right away.

Then I have 2 questions here:
1. If hell isn't for christian who has already attained salvation, does it mean what Ps. Philip Mantofa said in his testimony - seeing religious christian in the hell, is a lie? Or an illusion only?

2. If that "Luke 13:28 - weeping and gnashing of teeth" is only indicating self blame, then who are these people that self blaming? And when and where do they self blame?
Many commentary says that this verse indicates the believers who do evil and can't enter heaven, so they are weeping and gnashing of teeth. And again, if it's works that determine human's destination, it simply means salvation is not by grace, but by works.
*
If Christ hasn't come back to judge the world, how is there a hell? We really don't know what hell is. Concepts of places and stuff are all simply earthly concepts. You can read the visions prophets see and revelations. They way man sees these things have really no meaning. All the stuff they see only comes when God decides to them and again doesn't have much connection with the concepts we normally have for those things. So whatever hell may be or how God wants to punish people later, it's certainly not something within our understanding. So I do not believe in people who claim to have traveled to hell or see hell. All these kinds of stories bring more division and confusion for Christian, how can it be said to be from God? If it's from God, what glory are they ascribing to God by these stories? Even John who saw in awe and fear of the things to come wrote it in a way we don't understand today. So many people use so many kind of interpretation to read Revelations. The Jew during Jesus time memorized the scripture and knew it my heart yet had no idea that Jesus was the savior that was written about in the scripture. Even the apostles traveling with him did not understand until the time he choose for them to.

And for Luke, like I said earlier, if you really want answers, you need to do some historical and language study of the Bible. Look up Gehenna for a brief idea of what I'm talking about and then again, the information on the internet is really a mixed bunch. It's unwise to do haphazard bible study by relying on information from various writeup online and other people's commentaries. And you'll also be face with the choice between literal and analogical interpretations. That's why I feel Bible study should go with prayer cause we depend on God for understanding ultimately.

And we're all already saved from sin by God's grace. There's no work need to get this salvation or that can undo it. Jesus came and died and paid the price for our sin. That is so we can be one with God again. Because if the price for sin isn't paid or if our sins are not forgiven, we can be with God. But going to be able to be with God eternally when Jesus comes again, we have to keep ourselves holy because unholy things can't be with a holy God. And God will still judge people for the bad things they do. This is the same for all the people past present and future. Jesus paid the price for the people who lived and died before Him too.
pehkay
post Apr 19 2011, 10:53 AM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 19 2011, 09:02 AM)
Yes, I have already thought of that, as I said, I have many many questions on my mind, and that's why you can see me replying your comments right away.

Then I have 2 questions here:
1. If hell isn't for christian who has already attained salvation, does it mean what Ps. Philip Mantofa said in his testimony - seeing religious christian in the hell, is a lie? Or an illusion only?

2. If that "Luke 13:28 - weeping and gnashing of teeth" is only indicating self blame, then who are these people that self blaming? And when and where do they self blame?
Many commentary says that this verse indicates the believers who do evil and can't enter heaven, so they are weeping and gnashing of teeth. And again, if it's works that determine human's destination, it simply means salvation is not by grace, but by works.
*
1. Who am I to judge what they see ... only according to the Word, everyone who dies will go to Hades, a temporary place awaiting the resurrection and the judgement. Of course, the believers (those who received God as life) will be in the Paradise section.

In the New Testament the Lord Jesus tells us a story in Luke 16. In this story there are two men—a rich man and a beggar named Lazarus. When the time came, the rich man died, was buried, and was in torment in Hades (vv. 19-23). Perhaps some may say that it was proper for this rich man to go to Hades since he was an unsaved person. Yet Lazarus who was saved also went to Hades at his death, because it says that in Hades the rich man “lifted up his eyes...and saw Abraham from afar and Lazarus in his bosom. And he called out and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in anguish in this flame. But Abraham said, Child, remember that in your lifetime you fully received your good things, and Lazarus likewise bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish” (vv. 23-25). Here we are told that the rich man went to Hades and that Lazarus was also in Hades. We cannot say that Lazarus was in a heavenly mansion at that time because the rich man saw Lazarus in Abraham’s bosom. Moreover, while he was in the flames in Hades, the rich man could talk to Abraham, who was in a place of comfort. This shows us that they were somewhat near each other. Although they were separated by a great chasm, they could talk to each other and hear each other.

In the Old Testament Genesis says that Jacob went to Sheol after his death and went to be with his fathers, one of whom was Abraham. This indicates that Abraham was in Hades, which is also called Sheol. Then in the New Testament when we come to Luke 16, and it says that Abraham was in Hades, except that Abraham was in a place of comfort, as was Lazarus who was also saved. This indicates that there are different sections in Hades. According to Luke, there is a section of Hades that is full of flames and where the spirits and souls of the unsaved ones go to be tormented after they die. There is also another section where Abraham is and where the spirits and souls of the saved ones go to be comforted after they die. Although there is a difference, they are both in Hades. This is what Genesis in the Old Testament and Luke in the New Testament show us.


2. I know what most commentary said and they are having a LOT of problems reconciling with other portions of the Bible (used by non-OSAS - once saved always saved - advocates). As they are usually ones who subscribed to OSAS, which is scriptural, but only 1 part of the coin, they will have problem trying to interpret the foolish virgins, slaves, narrow way etc. The only way they could is to interpret them as unsaved ones.

But you have always remember the audience at the time were the disciples, the representative of us, the believers. (Your question on who[/b] are these people that self blaming) I did answered that in the previous post, that they are the defeated believers in the church age. If we are not the overcoming ones in this age, we will be the defeated ones who will be punished. The punishment to the unbelievers is one of condemnation and perdition. However, to the defeated believers, the punishment is a discipline. The Lord will discipline the defeated ones to perfect them. We may have been Christians for years without being perfected. If we have not been perfected in the present age, we will miss the reward and receive a punishment as a discipline to perfect us in the coming age.

They are self-blaming with regret of not being an overcomer in the church age. They are being disciplined (outer darkness, saved as through fire) in the kingdom of a thousand years revealed in Revelation 20:4-6. It is generally called the millennium. The kingdom of a thousand years is different from the New Testament church.

This is according to the Lord’s promise in Revelation 3:12: “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall by no means go out anymore, and I will write upon him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which descends out of heaven from My God, and My new name.” The mentioning of the New Jerusalem as a prize to the overcomer indicates that this promise will be fulfilled in the millennial kingdom. The New Jerusalem in the millennial kingdom will be a prize only to the overcoming saints, whereas the New Jerusalem in the new heaven and new earth will be the common portion of all the redeemed for eternity. Thus, the overcomers will enter into the New Jerusalem a thousand years earlier than the defeated believers. Those who are defeated in this age will delay their entry in becoming the New Jerusalem by a thousand years.

(You want me to share more on 10 virgins according to this principle of reward? blush.gif kinda a bit tired on typing laugh.gif )


toda_II
post Apr 19 2011, 10:58 AM

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pehkay, can everyone interpret the scripture personally?
-Davidoff-
post Apr 19 2011, 10:58 AM

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Hey all, my church is having a 4th Diocesan Worship Conference in Ipoh St.Peters church. Anyone interested to join?
http://www.psalmistgeneration.webs.com/home.html

pehkay
post Apr 19 2011, 11:00 AM

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QUOTE(toda_II @ Apr 18 2011, 07:27 PM)
We should have BM version! Pure BM version! That's Indon version!
*
Yoh 3:16 Kerana Tuhan begitu mengasihi dunia sehingga Dia menyerahkan Anak tunggal-Nya, supaya semua yang percaya ke dalam-Nya tidak binasa, tetapi beroleh hayat abadi.

thumbup.gif
pehkay
post Apr 19 2011, 11:04 AM

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QUOTE(toda_II @ Apr 19 2011, 10:58 AM)
pehkay, can everyone interpret the scripture personally?
*
That is a loaded question .... logically, you know the answer, no, not personally, there are principles, also 2000 years of Christians "stuffs" etc which you should inherit but still need to check with the Bible (some aren't scriptural... really) tongue.gif

But I cannot sense or deduce what is the reason that you ask.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 19 2011, 11:07 AM
toda_II
post Apr 19 2011, 11:04 AM

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QUOTE(-Davidoff- @ Apr 19 2011, 10:58 AM)
Hey all, my church is having a 4th Diocesan Worship Conference in Ipoh St.Peters church. Anyone interested to join?
http://www.psalmistgeneration.webs.com/home.html
*
too far mwahaha. St is abbreviation for Saint, right? Peter is a Saint?
toda_II
post Apr 19 2011, 11:05 AM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Apr 19 2011, 11:04 AM)
That is a loaded question .... logically, you know the answer, no tongue.gif

But I cannot sense or deduce what is the reason that you ask.
*
just asking your opinion lol.
Robin Hood
post Apr 19 2011, 11:05 AM

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pehkay. by any chance, are u a priest? u sound like 1. just asking.
toda_II
post Apr 19 2011, 11:06 AM

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pehkay, u go work la. no work meh.
keep typing here. boss marah nanti.
don't tell me...u work in church.

This post has been edited by toda_II: Apr 19 2011, 11:07 AM
SUSgogo2
post Apr 19 2011, 11:07 AM

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Why Christian use a cross as sign of Jesus when he is hang on cross? For me, the logical thing is to hate the cross.. lol
pehkay
post Apr 19 2011, 11:09 AM

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QUOTE(toda_II @ Apr 19 2011, 11:06 AM)
pehkay, u go work la. no work meh.
keep typing here. boss marah nanti.
don't tell me...u work in church.
*
Lol, yeah ... you are right tongue.gif
toda_II
post Apr 19 2011, 11:12 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Apr 19 2011, 11:07 AM)
Why Christian use a cross as sign of Jesus when he is hang on cross? For me, the logical thing is to hate the cross.. lol
*
u ask Romans la. ask "why your ancestors use cross to punish people to death?".
Since Jesus happens to die to cross, they use that as the memorial.
That's my personal opinion.

If Jesus died here
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Then maybe that's the symbol.

Then you will say "I hate that symbol"
debbieyss
post Apr 19 2011, 11:13 AM

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mumeichan & pehkay, thanks for answering my questions. In that case, how come a pastor would share something unbiblical to the public? Anyway, this is not my concern anymore.

Yes pehkay, I have heard of the interpretation of 10 virgins story from a churchmate. I don't mind to know your interpretation though. Perhaps you may share it tomorrow since your fingers are tired... biggrin.gif
SUSgogo2
post Apr 19 2011, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(toda_II @ Apr 19 2011, 11:12 AM)
u ask Romans la. ask "why your ancestors use cross to punish people to death?".
Since Jesus happens to die to cross, they use that as the memorial.
That's my personal opinion.

If Jesus died here
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Then maybe that's the symbol.

Then you will say "I hate that symbol"
*
that's so obvious to hate the symbol of punishment of YOUR GOD!!!


pehkay
post Apr 19 2011, 11:28 AM

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QUOTE(Robin Hood @ Apr 19 2011, 11:05 AM)
pehkay. by any chance, are u a priest? u sound like 1. just asking.
*
I will give you a few verses and hope you consider it tongue.gif

First Timothy 2:4 says, “Who[God] will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the full knowledge of the truth

After the Israelites came out of Egypt, they came to Mount Sinai. God charged Moses to speak to the Israelites, saying, “Ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation” (Exo. 19:6). God told the Israelites that they would be a kingdom of priests. He meant that He wanted the whole nation to be priests. No one in the nation would be an ordinary person; the whole kingdom would be priests. This was God’s purpose.

1 Peter 2:4-5 and 9 says, “Coming to Him, a living stone, rejected by men but with God chosen and precious, you yourselves also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house into a holy priesthood to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ... You are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people acquired for a possession.”

All New Testament believers are priests.

brows.gif

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 19 2011, 11:30 AM
TShappy4ever
post Apr 19 2011, 12:43 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 19 2011, 09:02 AM)
Yes, I have already thought of that, as I said, I have many many questions on my mind, and that's why you can see me replying your comments right away.

Then I have 2 questions here:
1. If hell isn't for christian who has already attained salvation, does it mean what Ps. Philip Mantofa said in his testimony - seeing religious christian in the hell, is a lie? Or an illusion only?

2. If that "Luke 13:28 - weeping and gnashing of teeth" is only indicating self blame, then who are these people that self blaming? And when and where do they self blame?
Many commentary says that this verse indicates the believers who do evil and can't enter heaven, so they are weeping and gnashing of teeth. And again, if it's works that determine human's destination, it simply means salvation is not by grace, but by works.
*
Philippians 2:12
Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,


You no longer work FOR your salvation, but to work OUT.
Just like how one does his daily work out to build his muscles and body, so shall you WORK OUT to build up your spiritual life in God, which has given you through grace.
Just as faith without works is dead

James 2:14-26
14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


If you claim you have received Christ and has salvation, then by all means work it out and be the salt and light to the world.
Doing evil deeds would only GRIEVE the Holy Spirit and nailing Christ back to the cross all over again!


QUOTE(gogo2 @ Apr 19 2011, 11:07 AM)
Why Christian use a cross as sign of Jesus when he is hang on cross? For me, the logical thing is to hate the cross.. lol
*
The empty cross and the empty tomb symbolize victory over sin and death.

Cross is not a sign of Jesus
Its a sign of victory. Man shall no longer by bound to the slavery of sin and death.
Its a symbolic gesture of such victory
debbieyss
post Apr 19 2011, 04:47 PM

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I know we are to work on the salvation, but how do you know if what you are doing is right? Even each christian has his own justification and judgement, some christian says bow down to idol for certain special occassion is ok, as long as you know your heart is right with God, where some say can not, some still go to pubs oftenly some do not etc...

This is also another issue that arouse many arguements among christians. If you are saying salvation is by grace and faith, then those strong faith who eats offered food is ok while to those who has little faith eating offered food is a sin, both parties also correct; if both parties also correct, just the matter how strong one's faith is, then why are there so many arguements?
thken
post Apr 20 2011, 01:36 AM

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hey, what are you guys think about lady gaga, after she released the song named Judas?

i used to like her Just dance and Telephone, after hearing judas it just make me feel sick. do you think she over the limit now?
thken
post Apr 20 2011, 01:50 AM

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btw, i got some question regarding about the bible

in matthew 7:13-14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. ........

how few is few? as we all know, at least 30%(well in my opinion there is more than 50%) of world population is a christian. so is 30% consider few?

the verses makes me wonder that only a certain percentage, maybe only 2 or 3% can only enter the kingdom of God....
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post Apr 20 2011, 02:11 AM

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why god gave jebus lame superpowers instead of awesome superpowers?
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post Apr 20 2011, 02:17 AM

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shalom evryone... smile.gif
annoymous1234
post Apr 20 2011, 02:29 AM

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QUOTE(thken @ Apr 20 2011, 01:50 AM)
btw, i got some question regarding about the bible

in matthew 7:13-14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. ........

how few is few? as we all know, at least 30%(well in my opinion there is more than 50%) of world population is a christian. so is 30% consider few?

the verses makes me wonder that only a certain percentage, maybe only 2 or 3% can only enter the kingdom of God....
*
not all christians go to heaven u know.. doesnt mean that if a person is a christian he/she can enter eternal life. correct me if im wrong, only few can enter, meaning that only those that keep the words of the lord, obey the commandments will be rewarded. of course nobody knows how few is few, but make sure that you are included in that few
annoymous1234
post Apr 20 2011, 02:37 AM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 19 2011, 04:47 PM)
I know we are to work on the salvation, but how do you know if what  you are doing is right? Even each christian has his own justification and judgement, some christian says bow down to idol for certain special occassion is ok, as long as you know your heart is right with God, where some say can not, some still go to pubs oftenly some do not etc...

This is also another issue that arouse many arguements among christians. If you are saying salvation is by grace and faith, then those strong faith who eats offered food is ok while to those who has little faith eating offered food is a sin, both parties also correct; if both parties also correct, just the matter how strong one's faith is, then why are there so many arguements?
*
true. there's always aguements among christians. take for example a church that I know does not celebrate christmas, because they said that there's no proof that Jesus was born on that day. that church also does not believe in the cross symbol, when u enter that church u wont see any symbol of cross, according to them christians are supposed to pray to Jesus not the cross, therefore putting or praying to the cross, even wearing it is not recommended.
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QUOTE(annoymous1234 @ Apr 20 2011, 02:37 AM)
true. there's always aguements among christians. take for example a church that I know does not celebrate christmas, because they said that there's no proof that Jesus was born on that day. that church also does not believe in the cross symbol, when u enter that church u wont see any symbol of cross, according to them christians are supposed to pray to Jesus not the cross, therefore putting or praying to the cross, even wearing it is not recommended.
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mind asking....u RC?
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post Apr 20 2011, 02:47 AM

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QUOTE(bibie86 @ Apr 20 2011, 02:40 AM)
mind asking....u RC?
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no... why? do I sound like one? LOL
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post Apr 20 2011, 05:34 AM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 19 2011, 04:47 PM)
I know we are to work on the salvation, but how do you know if what  you are doing is right? Even each christian has his own justification and judgement, some christian says bow down to idol for certain special occassion is ok, as long as you know your heart is right with God, where some say can not, some still go to pubs oftenly some do not etc...
Read back at the bible. Do not prostrate to idols
Going to pubs is still fine, but do draw the line between drinking and getting drunk. To some, its best not to go since they do not wish to be tempted into being drunk nor engulfed in too much smoke. Which is fine too. You do not go to hell just for this.

QUOTE
This is also another issue that arouse many arguements among christians. If you are saying salvation is by grace and faith, then those strong faith who eats offered food is ok while to those who has little faith eating offered food is a sin, both parties also correct; if both parties also correct, just the matter how strong one's faith is, then why are there so many arguements?
*
Eating food offered to idols has nothing to do with strong or little faith.
It NEVER leads you to sin. What goes in goes out.
What does lead you to sin is your heart's intent. (and of course, consuming food dangerous to your health)
TShappy4ever
post Apr 20 2011, 05:39 AM

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QUOTE(thken @ Apr 20 2011, 01:36 AM)
hey, what are you guys think about lady gaga, after she released the song named Judas?

i used to like her Just dance and Telephone, after hearing judas it just make me feel sick. do you think she over the limit now?
*
Wat about on her song?

QUOTE(annoymous1234 @ Apr 20 2011, 02:37 AM)
true. there's always aguements among christians. take for example a church that I know does not celebrate christmas, because they said that there's no proof that Jesus was born on that day. that church also does not believe in the cross symbol, when u enter that church u wont see any symbol of cross, according to them christians are supposed to pray to Jesus not the cross, therefore putting or praying to the cross, even wearing it is not recommended.
*
That church is greatly misguided.

No one prays to the cross. But its made in reference to God's victory over sin and death through the cross.

Christmas on Dec25th is nothing really on Jesus' birth, but rather as an evangelical means to commemorate Jesus' birth and use this to evangelize/Preach the gospel to the masses, as it was originally done to the Pagans, who were celebrating their winter solstice festivals on Dec 25th. I reckon the church you speak of has very little evangelism events too. Perhaps singing hymns without music. lol
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post Apr 20 2011, 08:38 AM

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Has anyone here read about Judaism view on Christianity? Any comments?

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Apr 20 2011, 08:44 AM
debbieyss
post Apr 20 2011, 09:28 AM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Apr 20 2011, 05:34 AM)
Read back at the bible. Do not prostrate to idols
Going to pubs is still fine, but do draw the line between drinking and getting drunk. To some, its best not to go since they do not wish to be tempted into being drunk nor engulfed in too much smoke. Which is fine too. You do not go to hell just for this.
Eating food offered to idols has nothing to do with strong or little faith.
It NEVER leads you to sin. What goes in goes out.
What does lead you to sin is your heart's intent. (and of course, consuming food dangerous to your health)
*
Brother, you no need to sleep meh? Replied my post at 5.04am!

Well, the initial motive i asked this question isn't that I do not understand, I just wanted to point out the confusing matters aroused among christians. I also want to say if eating offered food doesn't make you sin, then why are there christians arguing this? Apparently this has so much to do with sin, Paul also mentions about this that taking offered food has something to do according to the people of little faith or strong faith.

And, I don't think you need to clarify to me alone, or other forumers who are reading this, because there are MANY more christians are arguing about this. If Christ has been emphasizing the importance of faith, that salvation is gained by faith etc, then there won't be so many churches are trying to "theoreticalize" the teachings.
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post Apr 20 2011, 09:55 AM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 20 2011, 09:28 AM)
Brother, you no need to sleep meh? Replied my post at 5.04am!

Well, the initial motive i asked this question isn't that I do not understand, I just wanted to point out the confusing matters aroused among christians. I also want to say if eating offered food doesn't make you sin, then why are there christians arguing this? Apparently this has so much to do with sin, Paul also mentions about this that taking offered food has something to do according to the people of little faith or strong faith.

And, I don't think you need to clarify to me alone, or other forumers who are reading this, because there are MANY more christians are arguing about this. If Christ has been emphasizing the importance of faith, that salvation is gained by faith etc, then there won't be so many churches are trying to "theoreticalize" the teachings.
*
he memang no need sleep... brows.gif

I think an important point to remember is: Christianity is about having a relationship with God, it's not about religion. We are saved by Jesus' blood and now, we are grateful to Him. How we show our gratefulness? By obeying His commands and doing His work on Earth. Everything we do must be motivated by His love and to show His love to the world. So issues on whether to eat sacrifical food, obey the speed limit, drinking, etc. is all about what the Holy Spirit has convicted you in your heart to do. Some make a stand by not drinking. Some obey the speed limit. Some are convicted not to eat food sacrificed to idols. It's about what God has led you to make a stand for.

I'm not sure what teachings you are talking about but in essence, any speaker in church service should be led by God to speak His word. The weekly services give us an opportunity to fellowship with fellow believers, experience the presense of God in a very tangible way, hear His word and strengthen one another for the week to come. Also, the setting allows God to move mightily in our hearts.
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post Apr 20 2011, 11:26 AM

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QUOTE(eXyzt @ Apr 20 2011, 09:55 AM)
he memang no need sleep... brows.gif

I think an important point to remember is: Christianity is about having a relationship with God, it's not about religion. We are saved by Jesus' blood and now, we are grateful to Him. How we show our gratefulness? By obeying His commands and doing His work on Earth. Everything we do must be motivated by His love and to show His love to the world. So issues on whether to eat sacrifical food, obey the speed limit, drinking, etc. is all about what the Holy Spirit has convicted you in your heart to do. Some make a stand by not drinking. Some obey the speed limit. Some are convicted not to eat food sacrificed to idols. It's about what God has led you to make a stand for.

I'm not sure what teachings you are talking about but in essence, any speaker in church service should be led by God to speak His word. The weekly services give us an opportunity to fellowship with fellow believers, experience the presense of God in a very tangible way, hear His word and strengthen one another for the week to come. Also, the setting allows God to move mightily in our hearts.
*
Said is easier than done.

Everyone also say the same thing. But when one christian said he is fine to drink some alcohol, how do other christians react? There is only condemnation, discouragement, make every effort to put you down, or deny the fact what you have "heard" of God saying during your quiet time is not from God and telling you "Oh no, God is not like that one... You have to do this do that etc".
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post Apr 20 2011, 11:31 AM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 19 2011, 04:47 PM)
I know we are to work on the salvation, but how do you know if what  you are doing is right? Even each christian has his own justification and judgement, some christian says bow down to idol for certain special occassion is ok, as long as you know your heart is right with God, where some say can not, some still go to pubs oftenly some do not etc...

This is also another issue that arouse many arguements among christians. If you are saying salvation is by grace and faith, then those strong faith who eats offered food is ok while to those who has little faith eating offered food is a sin, both parties also correct; if both parties also correct, just the matter how strong one's faith is, then why are there so many arguements?
*
Debbie, that's why we say our God is a living God, not a statue and definitely not a book. We have the writing of the Holy man of God and it was compiled into the Bible we have now. It' serves as our guide and reference point and tells us alot about the nature of God and the ways man before us please God, disobeyed God, was rewarded by God and was punished by God. It has also prophesies which we understand and which we don't.

Like I said, salvation restored our relationship with God. In Acts, all the believers were given the Holy Spirit, which essentially means God is living in us. Before Jesus, only 1 chosen person was given the Holy Spirit at any time, like King Saul and King David and they works wonders yet still displeased God in many ways. Now that same Spirit is in us exercising its wonder and authority, but we still falter. So I understand your worry about knowing what's right or wrong, I used to seek a fixed set of rules to live my life and thought that I'd just need to tick off all the conditions on some check list and go to heaven. But it doesn't work like that. That's going back to the time of the Law of Moses, where God gave these people a law to follow because they were so stubborn and didn't want to please God. Take some time and read Mathew 19, where Jesus teaches about divorce. We see that even though divorce was kind of allowed in the Law of Moses, it did not please God. Read Deuteronomy 24 to see what it says in the Law of Moses.

It's not a matter about both being correct. With food, eating whatever food doesn't make you a better or worse person and doesn't bring you closer or further from God. Consuming things that have already been offered to idols too doesn't mean anything really. However, we love God very much and we're not bring glory to him by eating things that have been sacrificed to idols infront of people. And if we have alot of others food, we can show our respect for him by not eating food offered to idols even if we're alone. But the Bible speaks out strong against any form or idol worship. And if someone who believe in God thinks that it's really wrong to eat this food when it's not, he might be affected if he seen another believer eating food offered to idols. That wouldn't bring glory to God and it's not helping our brothers in Christ. So it's not a good things to do that. See all these things weren't preach in the context of going to heaven or hell, it was preached in the context of living for God. That's why I don't like quoting scriptures cause it takes the whole context of the book or letter it's written in away. So why is there so much arguments among Christians? It's because we reject the power of God. We reject that God can guide us. We reject that God is a living God. We want to go back to the legalistic past which Jesus showed wasn't the way to please God.

So how do we please God? First is to know that God is real and he is really God, all powerful over everything. Know that God isn't just a text in some book or a set of rules like a computer program that is going to run on the final day and separate good and evil into heaven or hell. This kind of conviction requires the grace of God, seek it and God will give it to you. I guarantee you no argument will convince you that God truly exist and this is the right God. It's something you have to experience spiritually and you will be fully convinced. Then realize that you have been saved from sin by Jesus Christ. From there build up a relationship through prayer and Bible study. Bible study without prayer is dead, the Bible has only so much and isn't the book of answers to everything question on earth. Even wondered why some people are like so passionate about their faith? It's because they've come to love God. It takes time, but when you seek an active relationship with God and come to know him more and more, you'll love him. And because you love him you want to do everything to please him. You will feel joy and not guilt when you do something that pleases God. You will be sure and not doubtful when you do something to please him.

If anyone wants to established a set of rules to follow, it will come to no end. The scripture isn't meant to set up more rules to follow. How much clothes should be wear according to the scripture? If we wear an inch too short, is it a sin, or a cm too short or an mm too short? If one says we can't eat offered to idols, how do they decides what idols are? What happens if they don't know the food was offered to idols. If they call people to give up 1/10 of their earning to the Lord based on the Law or Moses, how are we going to calculate that. Should we use pre-tax income amount? What exactly constitutes income? How do we give it to the Lord? Through a local Church? Does donating to the Red Cross make it giving to God? I tell you there's no end and you'd really be using the fringes of logic to pull out scriptural justification for all these questions.

If someone thinks another Christian is doing something that displeases God, he can explain it to the other person according to his convictions. But he should out of the desire to please God and that the other person may please God, and not to set the rules straight for heaven or hell. Read the letter of the apostles and Paul, are they writing to set the set the rules down for heaven or hell or are they writing so that we can live a life set apart for God?

This post has been edited by mumeichan: Apr 20 2011, 12:05 PM
mumeichan
post Apr 20 2011, 11:59 AM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 20 2011, 11:26 AM)
Said is easier than done.

Everyone also say the same thing. But when one christian said he is fine to drink some alcohol, how do other christians react? There is only condemnation, discouragement, make every effort to put you down, or deny the fact what you have "heard" of God saying during your quiet time is not from God and telling you "Oh no, God is not like that one... You have to do this do that etc".
*
This illustrates my point. Drinking is definitely not wrong. Even Jesus drank. He even changed water into wine for a wedding feast, and that is probably the most well known miracle. But then Paul goes on to tell Timothy in 1 Timothy 3 that elders in the church shouldn't drink too much.

If other Christians feel that drinking is not OK and we know it, why do we drink? Are we helping the other brothers and sisters in Christ by drinking and showing them that drinking is OK? Read 1 Corinthians 14: 26-39. Paul is talking about how Church meetings should help the Church. Take note of verse 36, right after he says women should keep silent during church meetings. He says "Did God's teaching come from you? Or are you the only ones who have received that teaching? Read it in context of the whole of 1 Corinthians and you'll see that really no one us are the only people who understands God's teacher or the only person God's speaks too. So we can be vary of such majestic claims by anyone. And we can also stop thinking that we're the only right ones. I'm being corrected everyday by Christians and non-Christians and by people who have little and who have alot of faith. By people who have deep scriptural knowledge and by those who have shallow. True, people do condemn others all the time, but they're not the models we look up too, we look at God, at Jesus.

Also read 1 Corinthians 10:23-33 and 6:12-20. Paul teaches us how we should live our lives for God. He starts out by saying "I am allowed to do all things." But all things are not good for me to do.

This post has been edited by mumeichan: Apr 20 2011, 12:01 PM
debbieyss
post Apr 20 2011, 12:14 PM

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If other Christians feel that drinking is not OK and we know it, why do we drink? Are we helping the other brothers and sisters in Christ by drinking and showing them that drinking is OK?
--> So as you said, we should look up to Jesus. Jesus drank, so it means we can also drink. Simple. So there's no need to say we are not helping other brothers and sisters in Christ when we drink.
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post Apr 20 2011, 12:27 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 20 2011, 12:14 PM)
If other Christians feel that drinking is not OK and we know it, why do we drink? Are we helping the other brothers and sisters in Christ by drinking and showing them that drinking is OK?
--> So as you said, we should look up to Jesus. Jesus drank, so it means we can also drink. Simple. So there's no need to say we are not helping other brothers and sisters in Christ when we drink.
*
No, you got me wrong. I mean we look up to Jesus. Jesus drank, and drinking was common at the time. But it don't mean it's a simple fast rule we can drink and we don't need to care about everything else. No one thought it was wrong at that time Jesus was drinking. But then read the parts in 1 Corinthians that I mentioned above. We can drink and we can do alot of things. But when we do these things, we should ask ourselves are we doing this for God? Is it bringing glory to God? Is it helping our brothers in Christ? Or we discouraging them? We have the mindset that we know it's OK to drink so we drink and we can prove everyone wrong. It might not be a sin to drink, but if it serves no purpose for God, we shouldn't indulge in it. If it's detrimental to the faith of our brothers in Christ don't. Why don't, because we don't want to. Not because it's a black and white rule. In others words

QUOTE
--> So as you said, we should look up to Jesus. Jesus drank, so it means we can also drink. Simple not so simple. So there no IS biggrin.gif  icon_idea.gif a need to say think if we are not helping other brothers and sisters in Christ when we drink.


Another after thought, this doesn't just pertain to the things our society passes some moral judgment on. Is folding origamis a sin? I don't think anyone, secular or not would think folding origamis is a sin. Now should we fold origamis? Ok yea let's fold origamis, nothing wrong with that. It's kinda fun or some people, some people can make really beautiful crafts out of it. Now let's say I want to devote my whole life to origami, I'll do nothing but fold origamis all day, making new creations all the time. So when I decide to do this, I should first think, am I doing it for my pleasure or for God's pleasure? Am I helping anyone in the faith with this? Is this the way I'm fulfilling my call to be a witness for Christ? Am I thinking about Jesus when I make this decision? Is that anything from doing origami all day that I might use for God's purpose?

This post has been edited by mumeichan: Apr 20 2011, 12:29 PM
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post Apr 20 2011, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Apr 20 2011, 05:34 AM)
Read back at the bible. Do not prostrate to idols
Going to pubs is still fine, but do draw the line between drinking and getting drunk. To some, its best not to go since they do not wish to be tempted into being drunk nor engulfed in too much smoke. Which is fine too. You do not go to hell just for this.
Eating food offered to idols has nothing to do with strong or little faith.
It NEVER leads you to sin. What goes in goes out.
What does lead you to sin is your heart's intent. (and of course, consuming food dangerous to your health)
*
dey unker i used to be a hindu before i became rational. and part of hinduism is about prostating to idols. so are you saying that 1 billion+ people are wrong?
mumeichan
post Apr 20 2011, 12:53 PM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 20 2011, 12:34 PM)
dey unker i used to be a hindu before i became rational. and part of hinduism is about prostating to idols. so are you saying that 1 billion+ people are wrong?
*
Those 1 billion plus people are not worshiping our God. If they don't believe in Christianity in the first place, there's no use to use our standards to judge them right and wrong. The right and wrong is between a person and God. So now you are a rational. So while you were a Hindu you were irrational right? So you're saying those 1 billion + people are irrational?

This post has been edited by mumeichan: Apr 20 2011, 12:55 PM
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post Apr 20 2011, 01:25 PM

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QUOTE(mumeichan @ Apr 20 2011, 12:53 PM)
Those 1 billion plus people are not worshiping our God. If they don't believe in Christianity in the first place, there's no use to use our standards to judge them right and wrong. The right and wrong is between a person and God. So now you are a rational. So while you were a Hindu you were irrational right? So you're saying those 1 billion + people are irrational?
*
but you christians only believe in your one god. even in the 10 commandents, it says that thou shalt only believe in one god.

yes im saying that whoever believes in god or religion, be it christianity or hinduism are irrational and misguided by a fear of a meaningless life
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QUOTE(mumeichan @ Apr 20 2011, 12:27 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

If we really want to think if what we do would glorify God, then we all should avoid in doing many many things eg. ake public transport instead of personal car to decrease air pollution. Do you take public transport to college and to work? Even if you posting this during your working hours, or during the time when you should be working on your own college study, is does not help brothers and sisters in Christ, it is not glorifying God. This is also the same as you are asked to follow the no-ending-laws. You can put them down in a piece of paper to track how much you have repented but are you happy? You are struggling to be happy which boils down to be list of laws!

A church's pastors whom I know personal did drink wine during a dinner and that dinner was also attended by other non-christians and new christians. So would you go up to them and tell these pastors do not drink? Would this arouse conflicts and unhappy circumstances during the dinner? This is just an example only.

What i'm trying to say is that why and what is the point if we just look into other people's flaws? Keep what is right to yourselves and don't force others to do it, live in peace with everyone.
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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Apr 20 2011, 05:39 AM)
Perhaps singing hymns without music. lol
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ur right they sing hymns
mumeichan
post Apr 20 2011, 03:46 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 20 2011, 01:49 PM)
[/spoiler]
If we really want to think if what we do would glorify God, then we all should avoid in doing many many things eg. ake public transport instead of personal car to decrease air pollution. Do you take public transport to college and to work? Even if you posting this during your working hours, or during the time when you should be working on your own college study, is does not help brothers and sisters in Christ, it is not glorifying God. This is also the same as you are asked to follow the no-ending-laws. You can put them down in a piece of paper to track how much you have repented but are you happy? You are struggling to be happy which boils down to be list of laws!

A church's pastors whom I know personal did drink wine during a dinner and that dinner was also attended by other non-christians and new christians. So would you go up to them and tell these pastors do not drink? Would this arouse conflicts and unhappy circumstances during the dinner? This is just an example only.

What i'm trying to say is that why and what is the point if we just look into other people's flaws? Keep what is right to yourselves and don't force others to do it, live in peace with everyone.
*
Actually I do, I cycle two miles a day back and forth and around school. I even cycle to the supermarket to do groceries. However I'm doing it to save money that can be better spent on other things. I'm not convicted to decrease pollution but I'm sure others are. It's 3 am now almost 4am where I am and I'm posting this because you were asking question and I hoped to share some of my view and some passages in the bible that related to your question. Besides, it's really not up to you or anyone else to judge what I am doing as glorifying God or not, because as I said it's a relationship between me and God. I said we should glorify God and you pick on something I am doing and say it's not glorifying God. Whether am am trying to glorify God or not depends on my intentions right? And we were on the topic on how to decide what is right or wrong. My reply was essentially that if we love God, we try to glorify him. We're not ticking off a checklist if right and wrong or the right way to glorify or the wrong way etc. Glorifying God doesn't mean making everyone happy. Jesus and the apostles didn't make everyone happy. In fact they made alot of people angry and invited alot of persecution for the themselves. Glory is given to God by his standards, not ours.

Anyone can find at least something wrong with anything by using some arbitrary, secular or not. As good example is what you just did. To me I was trying to help you understand Christianity better and that was my way of serving God. You saw it as using my time that I should be studying and that's not glorifying God. All the "many things" that you said we should not do are things based on arbitrary standards. What should be decrease pollution? That answer to that lies upon many arguments and standard or morality. My answer was that one should seek out a relationship with God and be guided by the Holy Spirit as to what he should do and should not do. Lets God personally guide the person. What matters in the end is how God judges and now how the world judges a person by any worldly standard.

I don't know what no-ending-laws I am following. I also don't see how putting down anything on a piece of paper is going to track how much I repented. I don't think there's a quantity or depth to repentance. I'm am happy because I've come to know God. I also don't see how I'm certainly struggling to be happy or how that translates into a list of laws either.

I've a feeling you're not bothered to read what I wrote or the passages I pointed out. If the Church pastor knows that drinking wine is going to invite condemnation to himself and the church, then it would not be wise to drink it. And if such a thing did happen in the Church I attend or the local Christian community I am in, I will talk to the person. I can't and I won't force anything down the person nor am I judging the person. He can hear me and whatever he does it's his own decision. If he feels there is nothing wrong with it in the end, that's his conclusion. I can't read a person's mind or measure his faith and I can't know whether he does what he does or God for not. That is between him and God. And this applies for any other situation as well.

You can read the Bible yourself and you'll see that we are to live a life to glorify God. As to how and what glorifies God, I nor anyone else possesses the rulebook for that because it's a matter of the relationship with the believer and God. God knows what he wants, so we should be talking to God. So it's pointless if you throw out an example and ask if that is glorifying God. I'm telling you to ask God.

Even if there wasn't God, humans aren't capable of living in peace with everyone. Even by completely secular means, there is no way world could become a place where everyone keeps what's right for himself and not force it unto others. This is because what's right for someone can end up wrong another person. Social dynamics dictate that no such egalitarian system can exist.

Fundamentally I believe that as Christians, we want to let the world know about Jesus. But we can't change people into Christians, it has to come from their own conviction and God's grace.

As to looking for faults withing the practice of Christianity, looking for faults isn't something we should be doing. But if we see a fellow believe going astray, we would want to guide him back. That's doesn't mean we're forcing our view unto him, which I say it's wrong. There's no way we can force something which is a matter of faith onto another person. That would just lead to external compliance.

Finally as usual I'm not interested to argue over our viewpoints. I replied to some of our post because you seemed to be looking for answers to Christianity for yourself and I shared come of the things I know and some of my thoughts on looking for answers yourself. I'm surprised at the last sentence because I thought you were asking about the conditions of going to heaven and hell and not about find flaws in people or living in peace with everyone. You don't have to agree with all the things I said. It's your prerogative in the end to find the answers yourself. If you want to seek God, you can keep an open mind, seek God, read the Bible and you can pray. You can read all the philosophies of the world and all the other religious books too. You can ask people to share their experience and knowledge with you. But if your pursuit is not to find God, but to come in with a set ideal and and find every part that disagrees with you, Christianity or not, you'll just end up arguing with people over things you disagree and nothing comes out of that. You won't find God if you're looking for an explaining or interpretation of Christianity that will suit all your ideals. I can say it doesn't suit all my ideals either. If you don't agree with the way God does something, I can't help you with that. God decided it to be that way.

This post has been edited by mumeichan: Apr 20 2011, 04:11 PM
debbieyss
post Apr 20 2011, 04:59 PM

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QUOTE(mumeichan @ Apr 20 2011, 03:46 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


First of all, I'm not trying to argue or what, i did finish reading each and every of your reply. I even asked similar questions to many churches and pastors and they either skip my questions or not answering completely, that's why I appreciate this little column which allows me to ask and get the answers instantly.

At first I asked about heaven and hell as I don't know how to justify and if there's a complete and clear cut answer, there won't be as what Ps. Philip said, he saw religious people in the hell and you should know these people "thought" their relationship with God was right when they are still alive, they thought what they do is right etc, but in the end they are cast into hell. Another example is also a testi telling someone didn't lend money to his neighbor to settle a funeral for the wive and he also cast down to hell. I know we can't believe what the internet says but how can you ask me not believing what Ps. Philip says? Do you know he was invited to FGA church for sermons? Do you know he had sermons in Putra Stadium? If his testi to hell isn't from God then why is the churches inviting him for sermons? I don't mean to rebuke you or judge you to find an ideal christianity for my own, sorry if my statements put you down or annoyed you. I really need to gorge the answer I want.

At times I would like to give up my faith, when someone not looking for fortune nor anything on earth, just a simple family but in the end the family broken (i'm not from broken family though tongue.gif , just making an example), so he turns to God, then all the christians or pastors giving different answers or reject to answer, with those answers received, he got confused with God's justification of righteousness and judgement. I'm not sure if you have been through this kind of situation.

I know many of you would ask me to read the book of Job, I read the entire book already. Job's children and properties all gone, children at least all in heaven already, unlike some christians seeing their parents or grandparents died without receiving Christ; property can be earned again through few years of hard work, or stay living in simple life; Job even can talk to God face to face, but now if someone claim that doing task A is something what God asks then the other christians disagree and say "no lah, God is not like this etc". I know you are asking me to ask God myself cos He is the only who control everything and He is a living God, but I tell you I tried but in the end my point of views disapproved by christians and I don't like it, because of these again, making me confused and I can only live once, I can't help to be responsible the destiny that I'm going if I don't follow the majority; but if I'm following the majority, that's not something that I am comfortable with.

It's ok mumeichan, thanks for your time anyway. I'm quite tired actually. Maybe now is not the time for me clear my doubts yet, right? Maybe I would only get my doubts answered years later.

Let all my questions put an end here then.

Peace.
pehkay
post Apr 20 2011, 05:55 PM

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QUOTE(thken @ Apr 20 2011, 01:50 AM)
btw, i got some question regarding about the bible

in matthew 7:13-14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. ........

how few is few? as we all know, at least 30%(well in my opinion there is more than 50%) of world population is a christian. so is 30% consider few?

the verses makes me wonder that only a certain percentage, maybe only 2 or 3% can only enter the kingdom of God....
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It will be very few (no one knows). biggrin.gif But it is not about "enter the kingdom of God" .... it's not about salvation. tongue.gif

This is why the call for overcomers in Rev 2 is very clear.

In other words, the church will fail in this age. Only the small group of overcomers will be the representative, the Zion, that will have the reality of the church today.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 20 2011, 05:56 PM
pehkay
post Apr 20 2011, 06:04 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 20 2011, 04:59 PM)
[/spoiler]

First of all, I'm not trying to argue or what, i did finish reading each and every of your reply. I even asked similar questions to many churches and pastors and they either skip my questions or not answering completely, that's why I appreciate this little column which allows me to ask and get the answers instantly.

At first I asked about heaven and hell as I don't know how to justify and if there's a complete and clear cut answer, there won't be as what Ps. Philip said, he saw religious people in the hell and you should know these people "thought" their relationship with God was right when they are still alive, they thought what they do is right etc, but in the end they are cast into hell. Another example is also a testi telling someone didn't lend money to his neighbor to settle a funeral for the wive and he also cast down to hell. I know we can't believe what the internet says but how can you ask me not believing what Ps. Philip says? Do you know he was invited to FGA church for sermons? Do you know he had sermons in Putra Stadium? If his testi to hell isn't from God then why is the churches inviting him for sermons? I don't mean to rebuke you or judge you to find an ideal christianity for my own, sorry if my statements put you down or annoyed you. I really need to gorge the answer I want.

At times I would like to give up my faith, when someone not looking for fortune nor anything on earth, just a simple family but in the end the family broken (i'm not from broken family though  tongue.gif , just making an example), so he turns to God, then all the christians or pastors giving different answers or reject to answer, with those answers received, he got confused with God's justification of righteousness and judgement. I'm not sure if you have been through this kind of situation.

I know many of you would ask me to read the book of Job, I read the entire book already. Job's children and properties all gone, children at least all in heaven already, unlike some christians seeing their parents or grandparents died without receiving Christ; property can be earned again through few years of hard work, or stay living in simple life; Job even can talk to God face to face, but now if someone claim that doing task A is something what God asks then the other christians disagree and say "no lah, God is not like this etc". I know you are asking me to ask God myself cos He is the only who control everything and He is a living God, but I tell you I tried but in the end my point of views disapproved by christians and I don't like it, because of these again, making me confused and I can only live once, I can't help to be responsible the destiny that I'm going if I don't follow the majority; but if I'm following the majority, that's not something that I am comfortable with.

It's ok mumeichan, thanks for your time anyway. I'm quite tired actually. Maybe now is not the time for me clear my doubts yet, right? Maybe I would only get my doubts answered years later.

Let all my questions put an end here then.

Peace.
*
Just walk according to the spirit. biggrin.gif

It is not a matter of outward right or wrong; rather, it is a matter of our living Him in the spirit, in the one mingled spirit. This is what God wants today, and this is today’s Christian life. The Christian life is neither religious nor moral; it is neither natural nor cultural. The Christian life is a life that is lived out of the two spirits becoming one spirit. When we speak, we speak out of this mingled spirit. When we do things, we do them out of this mingled spirit. Our going or not going to a certain place also comes out of this mingled spirit. This is to walk according to the spirit.

Although we do not stress morality, Paul said that when we walk according to the spirit, we spontaneously fulfill the righteous requirements of the law (Rom. 8:4). Although we do not pay much attention to so-called ethics, when we walk according to the spirit, our ethics will be the highest. The husband will love his wife even more, and the wife will subject herself to her husband even more. Because at this point, it is not we who are in subjection or we who love; rather, it is the Lord who lives out of us as our subjection and our love.

This is God’s living in us, and this is also our living out God. These two spirits becoming one spirit is the greatest mystery in the universe; it is something incomprehensible to the human mind (Rom 8:16). However, we praise and thank the Lord that because God took these two great steps—becoming flesh in order to accomplish redemption for us and resurrecting from the dead in order to dispense Himself into us to be our life—we all have become Christians who have the mingled spirit and who live with the Lord.

TShappy4ever
post Apr 20 2011, 06:44 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Apr 20 2011, 08:38 AM)
Has anyone here read about Judaism view on Christianity? Any comments?
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Their views are irrelevant since they deny Jesus as the messiah, and are hopelessly waiting for one to come. They do not accept the Messiah as the Servant King.
Throughout their history, the Jews have been known to be leading their own self astray. Even after Mose leading them out of Egypt and witnessing first hand the miracles of God, they still build themselves a golden bull to prostrate after. cis!

QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 20 2011, 09:28 AM)
Brother, you no need to sleep meh? Replied my post at 5.04am!

Well, the initial motive i asked this question isn't that I do not understand, I just wanted to point out the confusing matters aroused among christians. I also want to say if eating offered food doesn't make you sin, then why are there christians arguing this? Apparently this has so much to do with sin, Paul also mentions about this that taking offered food has something to do according to the people of little faith or strong faith.

And, I don't think you need to clarify to me alone, or other forumers who are reading this, because there are MANY more christians are arguing about this. If Christ has been emphasizing the importance of faith, that salvation is gained by faith etc, then there won't be so many churches are trying to "theoreticalize" the teachings.
*
Woke up at 4am due to the thunderstorm sad.gif

People like to argue over everything. Some as a means of digging out facts, some just for the sake of arguing, while others are just being extremists.
Those of little faith who may doubt abt the whole food-for-idols fiasco might be stumbled, but if they were made aware of such deeds, then its ok to consume. After all, idols do not mean anything significant to us. God in us is stronger.

There are also many other churches that are of questionable practices, cultic etc too. Some are too extremist while some are too lenient etc. Always fall back to what Jesus teach us.

QUOTE(debbieyss @ Apr 20 2011, 11:26 AM)
Said is easier than done.

Everyone also say the same thing. But when one christian said he is fine to drink some alcohol, how do other christians react? There is only condemnation, discouragement, make every effort to put you down, or deny the fact what you have "heard" of God saying during your quiet time is not from God and telling you "Oh no, God is not like that one... You have to do this do that etc".
*
Anything that you do that does not glorify God, should be refrained as much as possible. If blind indulgence (ie gluttony) is what it is, then its a sin too!
Drinking wine, if its for health purposes or just light leisure, then its not sinful. But to drink to the point and intent to get INTOXICATED and DRUNK, thus making your conduct and behavior being ungoldly, then it is a SIN because your drunkeness cannot glorify God...and you might end up doing silly things. So if you cannot control, then its best to PREEEMPT.

QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 20 2011, 12:34 PM)
dey unker i used to be a hindu before i became rational. and part of hinduism is about prostating to idols. so are you saying that 1 billion+ people are wrong?
*
Millions of people have commited suicide globally for many years. Millions cant be wrong. Heck, suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. So why dont you try it? laugh.gif
As mention, Jesus is the ONLY way to God. He is the truth the life and the way. NO ONE ELSE and NO OTHER WAY but through Christ.

QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 20 2011, 01:25 PM)
but you christians only believe in your one god. even in the 10 commandents, it says that thou shalt only believe in one god.

yes im saying that whoever believes in god or religion, be it christianity or hinduism are irrational and misguided by a fear of a meaningless life
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Quite a fallacy

Belief in a religion does not equate to fear of meaningless life, nor the disbelief mean one's life is meaningless. If this is true, then you concur your godless life is meaningless? whistling.gif
ben3003
post Apr 21 2011, 10:27 PM

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Sorry to interrupt, does anyone know what is the time for tomorrow mass at Good Shepherd Catholic Church, setapak? Thanks alot smile.gif
majorarmstrong
post Apr 21 2011, 10:38 PM

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does Christian related to Freemason?
i dont really get it with all the argument going on about the freemason conspiracy theory, seeking for some answer here..
TShappy4ever
post Apr 24 2011, 12:49 AM

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QUOTE(majorarmstrong @ Apr 21 2011, 10:38 PM)
does Christian related to Freemason?
i dont really get it with all the argument going on about the freemason conspiracy theory, seeking for some answer here..
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Nope, its not.
penmarker
post Apr 24 2011, 12:50 AM

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QUOTE(majorarmstrong @ Apr 21 2011, 10:38 PM)
does Christian related to Freemason?
i dont really get it with all the argument going on about the freemason conspiracy theory, seeking for some answer here..
*

you must've read that thing from dinar emas website.

TShappy4ever
post Apr 24 2011, 12:55 AM

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QUOTE(penmarker @ Apr 24 2011, 12:50 AM)
you must've read that thing from dinar emas website.
*
ROFLMAO! laugh.gif
Zidane Chan
post Apr 24 2011, 12:59 AM

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LOVE ONE ANOTHER
penmarker
post Apr 24 2011, 01:07 AM

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i'd report you myself for trolling in another religion's thread.
mekboyz
post Apr 24 2011, 01:10 AM

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QUOTE(penmarker @ Apr 24 2011, 01:07 AM)
i'd report you myself for trolling in another religion's thread.
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me? im expressing my opinion. BTW what are you and H4E doing in the atheist and skeptics thread?? H4E is clearly trolling there. relating politics and god?? doh.gif
TShappy4ever
post Apr 24 2011, 01:14 AM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Apr 24 2011, 01:10 AM)
me? im expressing my opinion. BTW what are you and H4E doing in the atheist and skeptics thread?? H4E is clearly trolling there. relating politics and god??  doh.gif
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a skeptisim to atheism is appropriate.
penmarker
post Apr 24 2011, 01:16 AM

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your tone suggests we are conspiring with each other.
ShoppingBag
post Apr 24 2011, 01:24 AM

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Christian theads FTW !!

Amen !!
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post Apr 24 2011, 01:26 AM

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“A new command I give you: LOVE ONE ANOTHER. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” - John 13:34-35
TShappy4ever
post Apr 24 2011, 01:34 AM

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QUOTE(penmarker @ Apr 24 2011, 01:16 AM)
your tone suggests we are conspiring with each other.
*
there there, sayang. no need to be upset.

we go make some gay love. come sayang
mumeichan
post Apr 24 2011, 01:10 PM

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Let's be happy as we remember Jesus rising again today. Happy Easter. Unshackle yourself from the chains of restraint and shout and sing praises to the Lord today. If you're happy and you know it praise the Lord. :clap :clap

This post has been edited by mumeichan: Apr 24 2011, 01:11 PM
pehkay
post Apr 24 2011, 06:08 PM

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Some intrinsic significance on resurrection of Christ than the usual traditional understanding ....

Resurrection implies three big things:

The Birth of the Firstborn Son of God

First, in resurrection, Christ was born to be the firstborn Son of God. How many have ever heard that resurrection was a birth to Christ? Who has ever thought that besides the incarnation, Christ had another birth in His resurrection?

Acts 13:33 says, "That God has fully fulfilled this promise to us their children in raising up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, `You are My Son; today I have begotten You.'" Today in this verse was the day of resurrection. Christ was begotten by God in resurrection to be God's firstborn Son. How many Christians have heard this truth? But this truth is in the Bible. Christ was the only begotten Son of God even before His incarnation (John 1:18). His incarnation was the coming of the only begotten Son of God (3:16). This Son of God was incarnated to be a man. But Acts 13:33 unveils that in resurrection God begot Christ to be the firstborn Son of God among many brothers (Rom. 8:29).

The Regeneration of the Many Sons of God

Also, the Bible tells us that we, the God-chosen people, were regenerated in Christ's resurrection. First Peter 1:3 says, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has regenerated us unto a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead." God has regenerated us through the resurrection of Christ. In resurrection God begot a Son, Jesus Christ, and in resurrection God regenerated many sons. This shows us that the resurrection of Christ was a great delivery. In that same delivery, the Firstborn was Christ, and this firstborn Brother had many "twins" to follow Him. In the unique resurrection Christ was born and we were regenerated, so we were His "twins" in the same delivery.

The Last Adam Becoming a Life-giving Spirit

Also, in this same resurrection, Christ became a life-giving Spirit. The holy Scripture says in 1 Corinthians 15:45b, "The last Adam became a life-giving Spirit."

If you ask someone what has been accomplished by God in Christ's resurrection, he may simply say that God raised up Christ from the dead. Surely this is fundamental and according to the Scripture. But in the same Bible there are three marvelous verses which show us the intrinsic significance of Christ's resurrection. First, Acts 13:33 tells us that in resurrection God accomplished a birth. In resurrection God begot Christ to be His firstborn Son. Then 1 Peter 1:3 tells us that through resurrection God regenerated us, the millions of God-chosen people. There was such a great delivery, a great begetting, in resurrection. Third, 1 Corinthians 15:45b tells us that in resurrection the last Adam, the man Jesus, became a life-giving Spirit. These three great things took place and were accomplished in the resurrection of Christ.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 24 2011, 06:09 PM
mekboyz
post Apr 24 2011, 06:10 PM

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hey my post got deleted liao? who lipoted it? was it you unker hmm.gif
Robin Hood
post Apr 24 2011, 06:16 PM

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happy easter to fellow believers n to atheists. have a good easter..
quintessential
post Apr 26 2011, 01:41 PM

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lul what? calvary church bukit jalil is accused by moslems as a freemasonry malaysian headquarters. how do you response to that allegation?

user posted image

http://bulatdusun.blogspot.com/2011/03/ger...ukit-jalil.html
pehkay
post Apr 26 2011, 03:37 PM

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Why do we need to? biggrin.gif

We don't even believe in this our-self
TShappy4ever
post Apr 26 2011, 04:44 PM

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QUOTE(quintessential @ Apr 26 2011, 01:41 PM)
lul what? calvary church bukit jalil is accused by moslems as a freemasonry malaysian headquarters. how do you response to that allegation?

user posted image

http://bulatdusun.blogspot.com/2011/03/ger...ukit-jalil.html
*
http://akuislam.com/blog/fakta-menarik/sim.../#axzz1KMgePefm

user posted image

user posted image

Yeah.

Sanctioned by Bank Negara too..for the ANJING ANUBIS as shown in the currency notes

idiots will say its kijang. Mind telling me which kijang got long tail?


pehkay
post Apr 26 2011, 05:29 PM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Apr 26 2011, 04:44 PM)
http://akuislam.com/blog/fakta-menarik/sim.../#axzz1KMgePefm

user posted image

user posted image

Yeah.

Sanctioned by Bank Negara too..for the ANJING ANUBIS as shown in the currency notes

idiots will say its kijang. Mind telling me which kijang got long tail?
*
Haha .. might as well say we copied from Egyptian mythology. tongue.gif
toda_II
post May 7 2011, 06:37 AM

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lol

This post has been edited by toda_II: May 7 2011, 06:41 AM
debbieyss
post May 9 2011, 05:49 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Apr 19 2011, 10:53 AM)
1. Who am I to judge what they see ... only according to the Word, everyone who dies will go to Hades, a temporary place awaiting the resurrection and the judgement. Of course, the believers (those who received God as life) will be in the Paradise section.

In the New Testament the Lord Jesus tells us a story in Luke 16. In this story there are two men—a rich man and a beggar named Lazarus. When the time came, the rich man died, was buried, and was in torment in Hades (vv. 19-23). Perhaps some may say that it was proper for this rich man to go to Hades since he was an unsaved person. Yet Lazarus who was saved also went to Hades at his death, because it says that in Hades the rich man “lifted up his eyes...and saw Abraham from afar and Lazarus in his bosom. And he called out and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in anguish in this flame. But Abraham said, Child, remember that in your lifetime you fully received your good things, and Lazarus likewise bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish” (vv. 23-25). Here we are told that the rich man went to Hades and that Lazarus was also in Hades. We cannot say that Lazarus was in a heavenly mansion at that time because the rich man saw Lazarus in Abraham’s bosom. Moreover, while he was in the flames in Hades, the rich man could talk to Abraham, who was in a place of comfort. This shows us that they were somewhat near each other. Although they were separated by a great chasm, they could talk to each other and hear each other.

In the Old Testament Genesis says that Jacob went to Sheol after his death and went to be with his fathers, one of whom was Abraham. This indicates that Abraham was in Hades, which is also called Sheol. Then in the New Testament when we come to Luke 16, and it says that Abraham was in Hades, except that Abraham was in a place of comfort, as was Lazarus who was also saved. This indicates that there are different sections in Hades. According to Luke, there is a section of Hades that is full of flames and where the spirits and souls of the unsaved ones go to be tormented after they die. There is also another section where Abraham is and where the spirits and souls of the saved ones go to be comforted after they die. Although there is a difference, they are both in Hades. This is what Genesis in the Old Testament and Luke in the New Testament show us.
2. I know what most commentary said and they are having a LOT of problems reconciling with other portions of the Bible (used by non-OSAS - once saved always saved - advocates). As they are usually ones who subscribed to OSAS, which is scriptural, but only 1 part of the coin, they will have problem trying to interpret the foolish virgins, slaves, narrow way etc. The only way they could is to interpret them as unsaved ones.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


I suddenly have a question: since all saved souls and unsaved soul will be in Hades after death, then why are the christians nowadays always claim those who are died as "XX is now with God in heaven"?
pehkay
post May 9 2011, 08:21 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ May 9 2011, 05:49 PM)
[/spoiler]

I suddenly have a question: since all saved souls and unsaved soul will be in Hades after death, then why are the christians nowadays always claim those who are died as "XX is now with God in heaven"?
*
dry.gif actually the notion of "going to heaven" is very unscriptural. You can check my previous post with mumeichan.

If you like some "not so light" readings:

http://www.affcrit.com/pdfs/2000/02/00_02_a3.pdf

http://www.affcrit.com/pdfs/2000/02/00_02_a2.pdf - a quick history of "heaven"
debbieyss
post May 9 2011, 10:57 PM

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Appreciate the findings. Let me read it tomorrow during my "free time"...

p.s: I got tongue ulcer, it came back after recovery not long ago, and doctor said this is due to long term lacking of sleep, improper meals and life pressure. I have few issues to settle in order to gain good sleep, one of the issues is this - Christianity.
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QUOTE(debbieyss @ May 9 2011, 10:57 PM)
Appreciate the findings. Let me read it tomorrow during my "free time"...

p.s: I got tongue ulcer, it came back after recovery not long ago, and doctor said this is due to long term lacking of sleep, improper meals and life pressure. I have few issues to settle in order to gain good sleep, one of the issues is this - Christianity.
*
eh u lost alot of weight... pls take care ok?

wan go yumcha or not?
debbieyss
post May 10 2011, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ May 9 2011, 11:29 PM)
eh u lost alot of weight... pls take care ok?

wan go yumcha or not?
*
Ya, i keep on losing weight, never gain weight since year 2008, i don't know why...

Maybe this Friday night...should be ok...
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QUOTE(debbieyss @ May 10 2011, 11:06 AM)
Ya, i keep on losing weight, never gain weight since year 2008, i don't know why...

Maybe this Friday night...should be ok...
*
friday nite for me is either cell group, or drink beer/teh tarik until laaatttee at night. tongue.gif free to join hehehe
debbieyss
post May 19 2011, 04:33 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ May 9 2011, 08:21 PM)
dry.gif actually the notion of "going to heaven" is very unscriptural. You can check my previous post with mumeichan.

If you like some "not so light" readings:

http://www.affcrit.com/pdfs/2000/02/00_02_a3.pdf

http://www.affcrit.com/pdfs/2000/02/00_02_a2.pdf  - a quick history of "heaven"
*
Ah... Pehkay, i got one more question.

One of my churchmates whose son, about 18 (mentally retarded and spinal Muscle Atrophy) passed away few years ago. On the 3rd day of funeral, before the son sent to cemetary, churchmate's sister (non-christian) claimed that she saw angels actually lined up like a staircase, brought the son up to sky (to heaven actually?)

How true is it, pehkay?
SUSryanliew87
post May 19 2011, 04:35 PM

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inb4 DAP tries to topple Christians as PM
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post May 19 2011, 04:39 PM

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QUOTE(ryanliew87 @ May 19 2011, 04:35 PM)
inb4 DAP tries to topple Christians as PM
*
Huh? hmm.gif
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post May 19 2011, 06:40 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ May 19 2011, 04:33 PM)
Ah... Pehkay, i got one more question.

One of my churchmates whose son, about 18 (mentally retarded and spinal Muscle Atrophy) passed away few years ago. On the 3rd day of funeral, before the son sent to cemetary, churchmate's sister (non-christian) claimed that she saw angels actually lined up like a staircase, brought the son up to sky (to heaven actually?)

How true is it, pehkay?
*
HAHAAHAHAH
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post May 19 2011, 06:50 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ May 19 2011, 04:33 PM)
Ah... Pehkay, i got one more question.

One of my churchmates whose son, about 18 (mentally retarded and spinal Muscle Atrophy) passed away few years ago. On the 3rd day of funeral, before the son sent to cemetary, churchmate's sister (non-christian) claimed that she saw angels actually lined up like a staircase, brought the son up to sky (to heaven actually?)

How true is it, pehkay?
*
Double HAHAHAHAHAHAA!
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post May 19 2011, 07:21 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ May 19 2011, 04:33 PM)
Ah... Pehkay, i got one more question.

One of my churchmates whose son, about 18 (mentally retarded and spinal Muscle Atrophy) passed away few years ago. On the 3rd day of funeral, before the son sent to cemetary, churchmate's sister (non-christian) claimed that she saw angels actually lined up like a staircase, brought the son up to sky (to heaven actually?)

How true is it, pehkay?
*
complete rubbish. no way she is telling the truth. if she really claims that, then she is most likely crazy.

debbieyss might i suggest you become an atheist? its a much more fulfilling life. at least you dont have to live a lie for the rest of your life. saya atheist saya ok flex.gif
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post May 19 2011, 07:49 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ May 19 2011, 04:33 PM)
Ah... Pehkay, i got one more question.

One of my churchmates whose son, about 18 (mentally retarded and spinal Muscle Atrophy) passed away few years ago. On the 3rd day of funeral, before the son sent to cemetary, churchmate's sister (non-christian) claimed that she saw angels actually lined up like a staircase, brought the son up to sky (to heaven actually?)

How true is it, pehkay?
*
Christian have faith. We rejoice in His every miracle.
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post May 19 2011, 07:56 PM

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QUOTE(Jellymaker @ May 19 2011, 07:49 PM)
Christian have faith. We rejoice in His every miracle.
*
you actually believe this story? was it also "His" miracle to make the boy be born mentally retarded?

This post has been edited by mekboyz: May 19 2011, 07:56 PM
toocommon
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QUOTE(mekboyz @ May 19 2011, 07:56 PM)
you actually believe this story? was it also "His" miracle to make the boy be born mentally retarded?
*
he might be retarted, but how u so sure he didnt live a life better and happier than urs although it is short?
Jellymaker
post May 19 2011, 08:10 PM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ May 19 2011, 07:56 PM)
you actually believe this story? was it also "His" miracle to make the boy be born mentally retarded?
*
Christ don't value a person on how much money he can earn or how high his education is.
debbieyss
post May 20 2011, 09:23 AM

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What i'm trying to say is that, if christians died and went to hade at the moment, before Christ's second coming, then why would someone saw this boy rose up to sky (heaven)?

How true is that?
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post May 20 2011, 09:38 AM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ May 19 2011, 07:56 PM)
you actually believe this story? was it also "His" miracle to make the boy be born mentally retarded?
*
that aint a bad thing. Mental retardation means u have no perception of suffering or desire, detachment of earthly things that lead to more sufferings, like how you would keep waking up early to jam like shit and then work like shit and come back sleep, and do this everyday for the next few decades. While being a retard, you get treated like a king.

QUOTE(debbieyss @ May 20 2011, 09:23 AM)
What i'm trying to say is that, if christians died and went to hade at the moment, before Christ's second coming, then why would someone saw this boy rose up to sky (heaven)?

How true is that?
*
Tell me, what does the Bible tells you on this? What have your research yielded to you?
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post May 20 2011, 09:44 AM

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add me on the list..

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This post has been edited by Busquets: May 20 2011, 09:47 AM
debbieyss
post May 20 2011, 10:36 AM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ May 20 2011, 09:38 AM)
that aint a bad thing. Mental retardation means u have no perception of suffering or desire, detachment of earthly things that lead to more sufferings, like how you would keep waking up early to jam like shit and then work like shit and come back sleep, and do this everyday for the next few decades. While being a retard, you get treated like a king.
Tell me, what does the Bible tells you on this? What have your research yielded to you?
*
I want to get answer from you all, then only i do research.

Everytime what I understand about bible, I got different answer from other christians.
LovesReborn
post May 20 2011, 10:46 AM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ May 20 2011, 10:36 AM)
I want to get answer from you all, then only i do research.

Everytime what I understand about bible, I got different answer from other christians.
*
getting different replies from christians are pretty common. one example can be used in many situations. similarly, 1 scripture may carry many different meanings. it's good to talk about it and know how those "meanings" come from. if they are from the bible and according to the teachings, i doubt any christian would say that it is totally wrong.
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post May 20 2011, 11:51 AM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ May 20 2011, 10:36 AM)
I want to get answer from you all, then only i do research.

Everytime what I understand about bible, I got different answer from other christians.
*
This is why we will encourage you to always check the Word as you hear from us. I usually try to put as much Scriptures as I can when sharing with you. Do check them. In one sense, don't fully "trust" our speaking as we are all fallen men with strange bias and backgrounds.

The Word is living and operative, and are not dead letters.

Well, you did ask my opinion on those matters ... and these are MY OPINIONS and have nothing to do with the Bible. As usual, they are not central things in the Bible.

============================
MY OPINION
============================

I won't know what your churchmate's sister saw. Logically, I will ask how a non-Christians knows what is an angel? Did she saw a person with wings? biggrin.gif
I was once corrected by someone that there is no record of angels having wings in the Bible tongue.gif. Why will they need wings? They could travel beyond space and time whistling.gif I have heard of a story of young child (pureness?) seeing "someone" in white standing behind/beside a person on a podium. But the description never mention wings ... I am afraid we are too much "influenced" by traditions/cultures/TVs...

Mostly, I heard testimonies of believers having seen demonic possessions. These tend to be more common occurrence, though very few.

I will admit that I (and perhaps others) tend to prefer "going to heaven/going up there" than going down due to many religious backgrounds. Even symbolically, going up is better than going down biggrin.gif

Eph 4
9 (Now this, "He ascended,'' what is it except that He also descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He who descended, He is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens that He might fill all things.)

Even the Lord descended first before His ascension. Who are you that you get to ascend right after death tongue.gif ? John 3:13, which was spoken by the Lord Jesus while He was on the earth as the Son of Man, says, “And no one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended out of heaven, the Son of Man, who is in heaven.”

Perhaps the angel is taking him down later?

This post has been edited by pehkay: May 20 2011, 11:55 AM
TShappy4ever
post May 20 2011, 01:46 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ May 20 2011, 10:36 AM)
I want to get answer from you all, then only i do research.

Everytime what I understand about bible, I got different answer from other christians.
*
Its like doing homework.

do you ask for all the answers before picking and choosing one to write it as your own?
OR

do you do your own research too, and then comparing it with others, so that you and the rest can offer good discussions and help edify each other instead of just being passive and listening and listening and none of us here know what is it thats in your mind?


TShappy4ever
post May 20 2011, 01:52 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ May 20 2011, 11:51 AM)
This is why we will encourage you to always check the Word as you hear from us. I usually try to put as much Scriptures as I can when sharing with you. Do check them. In one sense, don't fully "trust" our speaking as we are all fallen men with strange bias and backgrounds.

The Word is living and operative, and are not dead letters.

Well, you did ask my opinion on those matters ... and these are MY OPINIONS and have nothing to do with the Bible. As usual, they are not central things in the Bible.

============================
MY OPINION
============================

I won't know what your churchmate's sister saw. Logically, I will ask how a non-Christians knows what is an angel? Did she saw a person with wings? biggrin.gif
I was once corrected by someone that there is no record of angels having wings in the Bible tongue.gif. Why will they need wings? They could travel beyond space and time  whistling.gif I have heard of a story of young child (pureness?) seeing "someone" in white standing behind/beside a person on a podium. But the description never mention wings ... I am afraid we are too much "influenced" by traditions/cultures/TVs...

Mostly, I heard testimonies of believers having seen demonic possessions. These tend to be more common occurrence, though very few.

I will admit that I (and perhaps others) tend to prefer "going to heaven/going up there" than going down due to many religious backgrounds. Even symbolically, going up is better than going down biggrin.gif

Eph 4
9 (Now this, "He ascended,'' what is it except that He also descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He who descended, He is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens that He might fill all things.)

Even the Lord descended first before His ascension. Who are you that you get to ascend right after death tongue.gif ? John 3:13, which was spoken by the Lord Jesus while He was on the earth as the Son of Man, says, “And no one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended out of heaven, the Son of Man, who is in heaven.”

Perhaps the angel is taking him down later?
*
Whaty about the parable of the Rich man (in hades ) and Lazarus (in heaven?)

You are suggesting a limbo called purgatory, which isn't mentioned in the bible hmm.gif


Added on May 20, 2011, 1:53 pmAnd didnt Elijah taken off to heaven on a chariot?

This post has been edited by happy4ever: May 20 2011, 01:53 PM
Renegade67
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hareluyaaaaa
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QUOTE(Busquets @ May 20 2011, 09:44 AM)
add me on the list..

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*
Added! welcome! rclxms.gif
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QUOTE(Renegade67 @ May 20 2011, 01:53 PM)
hareluyaaaaa
*
Alleluya has elements of Allah in it smile.gif
Thinkingfox
post May 20 2011, 01:56 PM

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I don't know why people keep saying that Christians believe that the world will end on May 21st

This post has been edited by Thinkingfox: May 20 2011, 01:57 PM
TShappy4ever
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QUOTE(Thinkingfox @ May 20 2011, 01:56 PM)
I don't know why people keep saying that Christians believe that the world will end on May 21st
*
those who claim may 21st use numerology and are part of a small cultic apocalyptic group

those who claim ALL CHRISTIANS believe are trolls and idiots, particularly atheists
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post May 20 2011, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ May 20 2011, 02:00 PM)
those who claim may 21st use numerology and are part of a small cultic apocalyptic group

those who claim ALL CHRISTIANS believe are trolls and idiots, particularly atheists

*
LIKE.
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QUOTE(happy4ever @ May 20 2011, 02:00 PM)
those who claim may 21st use numerology and are part of a small cultic apocalyptic group

those who claim ALL CHRISTIANS believe are trolls and idiots, particularly atheists
*
utusan said seorang paderi and i was like :fp:
debbieyss
post May 20 2011, 02:48 PM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ May 20 2011, 01:46 PM)
Its like doing homework.

do you ask for all the answers before picking and choosing one to write it as your own?
OR

do you do your own research too, and then comparing it with others, so that you and the rest can offer good discussions and help edify each other instead of just being passive and listening and listening and none of us here know what is it thats in your mind?
*
Sometimes not only the way I interprete bible different from others, the way i view things and the way I act is different from others, too.

But to answer your questions:

1. do you ask for all the answers before picking and choosing one to write it as your own?
-->I asked all the questions from as many people as I can, including local churches' pastors, christians friends, books etc, I also email to neighbour country's church pastor. Some give me different answers, some didn't answer my questions (avoid answering my questions?)

2. do you do your own research too, and then comparing it with others, so that you and the rest can offer good discussions and help edify each other instead of just being passive and listening and listening and none of us here know what is it thats in your mind?
-->I did this too. Many times I tell them what I view the certain verses, they tell me that's wrong and these christians are mostly christians for many years (have read the bible over and over again). Many times I turn back to neutral position, not keeping my own view, neither keeping theirs.
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post May 20 2011, 02:58 PM

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@Debbiesys - The plurality of views on the Bible and other topics is something that you will need to get used to when talking with Protestant Christians.

I usually give the example of doctors or scientists - you can see various doctors and they may give you different diagnoses and scientists may have different interpretations of the data. But of course, this in no way discredits the profession of doctors and scientists. Nor does it mean it is hopeless or pointless to continue learning and looking until we finally have enough to make up our mind.

This post has been edited by lycaphim: May 20 2011, 02:59 PM
timetravelller
post May 20 2011, 03:02 PM

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does gambling prohibited? any exception?
lycaphim
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QUOTE(timetravelller @ May 20 2011, 03:02 PM)
does gambling prohibited? any exception?
*
Hi there, the Bible doesn't speak explicitly about gambling and strictly speaking, there is very little difference between gambling and gaming.

The only issue here is addiction to gambling - which, whether you are a Christian or not - is a bad thing.
debbieyss
post May 20 2011, 03:21 PM

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QUOTE(lycaphim @ May 20 2011, 02:58 PM)
@Debbiesys - The plurality of views on the Bible and other topics is something that you will need to get used to when talking with Protestant Christians.

I usually give the example of doctors or scientists - you can see various doctors and they may give you different diagnoses and scientists may have different interpretations of the data. But of course, this in no way discredits the profession of doctors and scientists. Nor does it mean it is hopeless or pointless to continue learning and looking until we finally have enough to make up our mind.
*
That's is different perspective between bible and doctor or scientist. There is only truth, but there are many different remedies between western doctor or easter doctors or scientists, thus to each its own.

Don't you want to know the 'actual' truth in the bible?
lycaphim
post May 20 2011, 03:24 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ May 20 2011, 03:21 PM)
That's is different perspective between bible and doctor or scientist. There is only truth, but there are many different remedies between western doctor or easter doctors or scientists, thus to each its own.

Don't you want to know the 'actual' truth in the bible?
*
Sorry if I wasn't clear - I was not saying that actual truth can never be found. I said that even if there are many people giving different interpretations, that does not in any way mean that the truth can never be found. But it looks like you agree on this as well.
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QUOTE(lycaphim @ May 20 2011, 04:05 PM)
Hi there, the Bible doesn't speak explicitly about gambling and strictly speaking, there is very little difference between gambling and gaming.

The only issue here is addiction to gambling - which, whether you are a Christian or not - is a bad thing.
*
if gambling without addicted, good or bad? gambling consider fool? if yes then bible did talk about foolish..

This post has been edited by timetravelller: May 20 2011, 03:44 PM
LovesReborn
post May 20 2011, 03:45 PM

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QUOTE
============================
MY OPINION
============================

I won't know what your churchmate's sister saw. Logically, I will ask how a non-Christians knows what is an angel? Did she saw a person with wings? biggrin.gif
I was once corrected by someone that there is no record of angels having wings in the Bible tongue.gif. Why will they need wings? They could travel beyond space and time  whistling.gif I have heard of a story of young child (pureness?) seeing "someone" in white standing behind/beside a person on a podium. But the description never mention wings ... I am afraid we are too much "influenced" by traditions/cultures/TVs...


*
some angels do have wings. smile.gif check Isaiah 6, Ezekiel 1:24
QUOTE
"I saw also the LORD sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. And one cried unto another, and said,
Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the
house was filled with smoke."
Isaiah 6:1-4

"When the creatures moved, I heard the sound of their wings, like the
roar of rushing waters, like the voice of the Almighty, like the tumult of
an army. When they stood still, they lowered their wings."
Ezekiel 1:24
and there are other creatures with wings in heaven like cherub or cherubim.

This post has been edited by LovesReborn: May 20 2011, 03:46 PM
valor89
post May 20 2011, 03:51 PM

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wow, i've been trolling lyn for like 3 years+ and i never knew such a thread exist
haha. hi everyone rclxms.gif
lycaphim
post May 20 2011, 03:51 PM

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QUOTE(timetravelller @ May 20 2011, 03:43 PM)
if gambling without addicted, good or bad? gambling consider fool? if yes then bible did talk about foolish..
*
Well, then that depends. A lot of things are foolish, not just gambling. But of course, if someone was good at poker and he earns a lot of money from it, then is it still wrong? Erm, I dunno. People make a lot of money from Starcraft and Counterstrike as well. smile.gif

But yeah, those who waste their money at slots are stupid people and I don't think you'd need the Bible to know that. tongue.gif
pehkay
post May 20 2011, 04:02 PM

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QUOTE(LovesReborn @ May 20 2011, 03:45 PM)
some angels do have wings. smile.gif check Isaiah 6, Ezekiel 1:24

and there are other creatures with wings in heaven like cherub or cherubim.
*
I stand corrected smile.gif if angel = seraphim ... you know any verses on angel specifically?

In the Old Testament there are two kinds of messengers: (1) the cherubim and (2) the seraphim. The cherubim have only four wings (Ezek. 1:6) and the seraphim have six (Isa. 6:2). The four living creatures here in Revelation resemble the four living creatures spoken of by Ezekiel-they have the faces of the cherubim (Ezek. 1:10) and the wings of the seraphim (Isa. 6:2).


TShappy4ever
post May 20 2011, 04:04 PM

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Wats the use of wings for the angels? Or are they a metaphor, or perhaps Jet pack wings that the writer mistook for bird wings.. tongue.gif
pehkay
post May 20 2011, 04:08 PM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ May 20 2011, 04:04 PM)
Wats the use of wings for the angels? Or are they a metaphor, or perhaps Jet pack wings that the writer mistook for bird wings.. tongue.gif
*
LOl ... spiritually speaking ... The seraphim, they are for God’s holiness (Isa. 6:3), referring to God’s nature, and as the cherubim, they are for God’s glory (Ezek. 10:18-19; Heb. 9:5), referring to God’s expression. Hence, they stand for God’s nature and expression.

When they bar Adam and Eve, it is saying that both of them falls short of God's expression and holiness.

This post has been edited by pehkay: May 20 2011, 04:09 PM
pehkay
post May 20 2011, 04:15 PM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ May 20 2011, 01:52 PM)
Whaty about the parable of the Rich man (in hades ) and Lazarus (in heaven?)

You are suggesting a limbo called purgatory, which isn't mentioned in the bible hmm.gif


Added on May 20, 2011, 1:53 pmAnd didnt Elijah taken off to heaven on a chariot?
*
Err ... nope I am not talking about purgatory. It is definitely not scriptural.

Hades definitely has two parts. One part is the place of flames where the rich man was, and the other is the place of comfort and joy where Lazarus was in the bosom of Abraham. Luke also calls this place Paradise, the place where the spirits and souls of the saved ones in past generations are resting.

Haha ya... .. two special cases: Moses and Elijah ... I suspect they will be the last 2 witnesses in Revelation since they are kept in a "special place".

Jude 9 “But Michael the archangel, when disputing with the Devil, arguing concerning the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a reviling judgment against him, but said, The Lord rebuke you.” The body of Moses was buried by the Lord in a valley in the land of Moab, in a place known by no man (Deut. 34:6). It must have been purposely done in this manner by the Lord. When Moses and Elijah appeared with Christ on the mount of transfiguration (Matt. 17:3), Moses must have been manifested in his body, which was kept by the Lord and resurrected. Probably, in view of this, the Devil attempted to do something to his body, and the archangel argued with him concerning this. The reference in 2 Peter 2:11 is general, but this is a definite case, concerning the body of Moses.

But <shrug> .. who knows... the Devil seem to know where it is ...

Well, some verses:

Genesis 42:38 says, “Then you will bring down my gray hairs in sorrow to Sheol.” These were Jacob’s words.

Psalm 16:10 says, “For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol.”

In Luke 23 the repentant robber who was being crucified said to the Lord Jesus, “Jesus, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.” And Jesus said to him, “Truly I say to you, Today you shall be with Me in Paradise” (vv. 42-43). This word clearly shows us that on the same day that the Lord Jesus died, the robber went with Him to Paradise.

Matthew 12:40 says, “For just as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.” The Lord died and was in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights. Immediately after the Lord yielded up His spirit on the cross, His spirit and soul departed from His body, not to go to a heavenly mansion but to Hades, and stayed in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.

Acts 2:31 says, “He, seeing this beforehand, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was He abandoned to Hades.” After reading Matthew 12:40 some may think that the Lord Jesus being in the heart of the earth refers to His body being buried in the earth and not to His spirit and soul being in Hades. However, concerning the resurrection of Christ Acts says that His spirit and soul were not abandoned to Hades, showing us that after the Lord died, His spirit and soul went to Hades. The Lord Jesus clearly told the robber, “Today you shall be with Me in Paradise.” Paradise is a section of Hades. From Genesis to Acts we are told that the spirits and souls of all the saved ones throughout the generations go to a place of rest in Hades after death. This place is the Paradise in Hades.




This post has been edited by pehkay: May 20 2011, 04:22 PM
timetravelller
post May 20 2011, 04:20 PM

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QUOTE(lycaphim @ May 20 2011, 04:51 PM)
Well, then that depends. A lot of things are foolish, not just gambling. But of course, if someone was good at poker and he earns a lot of money from it, then is it still wrong? Erm, I dunno. People make a lot of money from Starcraft and Counterstrike as well.  smile.gif

But yeah, those who waste their money at slots are stupid people and I don't think you'd need the Bible to know that.  tongue.gif
*
what abt buying lottery? what are the difference of buying lottery and participant contest to win big prize at the same time u pay a lot whenever u sms a entry, like RM1 per sms?

i just wanna know how bible interpret that only.

This post has been edited by timetravelller: May 20 2011, 04:21 PM
ymc2303
post May 20 2011, 04:29 PM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ May 20 2011, 04:04 PM)
Wats the use of wings for the angels? Or are they a metaphor, or perhaps Jet pack wings that the writer mistook for bird wings.. tongue.gif
*
its just mere mortal 's illustrations for the glorified beings created by God.
they need not jet pack.. the word almighty already are overwhelming.
debbieyss
post May 20 2011, 04:32 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ May 20 2011, 04:15 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
However, concerning the resurrection of Christ Acts says that His spirit and soul were not abandoned to Hades, showing us that after the Lord died, His spirit and soul went to Hades. The Lord Jesus clearly told the robber, “Today you shall be with Me in Paradise.” Paradise is a section of Hades. From Genesis to Acts we are told that the spirits and souls of all the saved ones throughout the generations go to a place of rest in Hades after death. This place is the Paradise in Hades.
*
The bolded part is contradicting. Typo? tongue.gif

lycaphim
post May 20 2011, 04:34 PM

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QUOTE(timetravelller @ May 20 2011, 04:20 PM)
what abt buying lottery? what are the difference of buying lottery and participant contest to win big prize at the same time u pay a lot whenever u sms a entry, like RM1 per sms?

i just wanna know how bible interpret that only.
*
No mention of lottery in the Bible either (I don't think 4D existed 2000 years ago!). The Bible speaks of casting lots, but in a different context.

You make a good point - is there are any difference in buying lottery or participating in SMS lotteries? One thing is for sure, the Bible tells us to be wise.

Personally, spending on lottery tickets which you have a tiny, tiny chance of winning is unwise. biggrin.gif
pehkay
post May 20 2011, 04:48 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ May 20 2011, 04:32 PM)
The bolded part is contradicting. Typo? tongue.gif
*
Haha ... looks like a typo .. my bad .. the sentence "not abandoned to Hades" = "left in Hades" .. but He resurrected XD ... So he wasn't abandoned in Hades (like no way out). Only He overcome the death stronghold smile.gif

This post has been edited by pehkay: May 20 2011, 04:49 PM
TShappy4ever
post May 20 2011, 07:14 PM

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QUOTE(timetravelller @ May 20 2011, 04:20 PM)
what abt buying lottery? what are the difference of buying lottery and participant contest to win big prize at the same time u pay a lot whenever u sms a entry, like RM1 per sms?

i just wanna know how bible interpret that only.
*
do note that your winnings are gained from the losses of others.
Do you take pride and joy in gaining from the loss of others then?

The key point in lottery and 4D and those SMS contest is that it gives some hope for those who are clueless to make it big. (yes, SMS contest is still like a lottery, you spend money and win by chance from the demise of others)

Now supposing you do win big...in what way then does this lump of money glorifies God then? Your win is others' losses!
mekboyz
post May 20 2011, 07:18 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ May 20 2011, 04:32 PM)
The bolded part is contradicting. Typo? tongue.gif
*
the bible was written by man hence it is full of contradictions
lycaphim
post May 20 2011, 08:49 PM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ May 20 2011, 07:18 PM)
the bible was written by man hence it is full of contradictions
*
Care to share some of them with us? smile.gif
mekboyz
post May 21 2011, 12:40 AM

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QUOTE(lycaphim @ May 20 2011, 08:49 PM)
Care to share some of them with us?  smile.gif
*
like the existence of a god for a start smile.gif
beederbest
post May 21 2011, 12:45 AM

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QUOTE(lycaphim @ May 20 2011, 08:49 PM)
Care to share some of them with us?  smile.gif
*
go google. laugh.gif
thken
post May 21 2011, 12:56 AM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ May 20 2011, 07:14 PM)
do note that your winnings are gained from the losses of others.
Do you take pride and joy in gaining from the loss of others then?

The key point in lottery and 4D and those SMS contest is that it gives some hope for those who are clueless to make it big. (yes, SMS contest is still like a lottery, you spend money and win by chance from the demise of others)

Now supposing you do win big...in what way then does this lump of money glorifies God then? Your win is others' losses!
*
but but but if you dont win others also will lose brows.gif

actually i dont mind christian that play toto or 4d as long they dont overbuy it. 1 time 10 bucks still ok la. if 1 time 100 or 200 then i think its really abnormal
lycaphim
post May 21 2011, 09:02 AM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ May 21 2011, 12:40 AM)
like the existence of a god for a start  smile.gif
*
How is that a contradiction?

QUOTE(beederbest @ May 21 2011, 12:45 AM)
go google.  laugh.gif
*
Er okay. Maybe you go google how the Bible is, in fact, quite reliable. smile.gif


mekboyz
post May 21 2011, 09:49 AM

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QUOTE(lycaphim @ May 21 2011, 09:02 AM)
How is that a contradiction?
Er okay. Maybe you go google how the Bible is, in fact, quite reliable.  smile.gif
*
1. because if you think about it rationally and without prejudice, its quite obvious that there is no such thing as a "god"

2. you really dont know how to use google. the bible was basically the tabloid of its day.
lycaphim
post May 21 2011, 02:05 PM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ May 21 2011, 09:49 AM)
1. because if you think about it rationally and without prejudice, its quite obvious that there is no such thing as a "god"

2. you really dont know how to use google. the bible was basically the tabloid of its day.
*
1. I have thought about it rationally and without prejudice, and I have come to conclude the opposite.

2. Argument by Google is one of the worst arguments to make. Should I just say God exists and ask you to use google if you ask me to prove it?
shmiad
post May 21 2011, 02:09 PM

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LovesReborn
post May 21 2011, 05:02 PM

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QUOTE(shmiad @ May 21 2011, 02:09 PM)

*
i wonder the host is from which church. hmm.gif
oh, and the bible that he uses too hmm.gif

argh, got to know the bible that he uses. he uses his own bible, richard neon bible. now that's something new...
im pretty sure many christians here can answer those questions brought up. thumbup.gif

This post has been edited by LovesReborn: May 21 2011, 05:18 PM
lycaphim
post May 21 2011, 05:10 PM

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QUOTE(LovesReborn @ May 21 2011, 05:02 PM)
i wonder the host is from which church. hmm.gif
oh, and the bible that he uses too hmm.gif
*
That guys knows as much about the Bible as this guy knows about the Qu'ran:




yeezai
post May 21 2011, 05:16 PM

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SUSKal-el
post May 21 2011, 05:28 PM

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user posted image
lycaphim
post May 21 2011, 05:35 PM

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Keep posting in all the threads you can find Kal-el, you seem quite free. biggrin.gif

I usually don't bother replying to image macros, but whoever made it doesn't understand the differentiation between Biblical genre.
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post May 21 2011, 05:38 PM

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QUOTE(lycaphim @ May 21 2011, 05:35 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Keep posting in all the threads you can find Kal-el, you seem quite free.  biggrin.gif

I usually don't bother replying to image macros, but whoever made it doesn't understand the differentiation between Biblical genre.
*
dey thambi, you sure you know whats image macro?
lycaphim
post May 21 2011, 05:41 PM

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QUOTE(Kal-el @ May 21 2011, 05:38 PM)
dey thambi, you sure you know whats image macro?
*
You sure you know what Biblical genre is? biggrin.gif
shmiad
post May 22 2011, 08:32 AM

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QUOTE(LovesReborn @ May 21 2011, 05:02 PM)
i wonder the host is from which church. hmm.gif
oh, and the bible that he uses too hmm.gif

argh, got to know the bible that he uses. he uses his own bible, richard neon bible. now that's something new...
im pretty sure many christians here can answer those questions brought up. thumbup.gif
*
waiting.....
lycaphim
post May 22 2011, 12:03 PM

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QUOTE(shmiad @ May 22 2011, 08:32 AM)
waiting.....
*
Responding to some points in the video. The caller recycles the standard Muslim objections:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


TShappy4ever
post May 22 2011, 12:21 PM

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QUOTE(shmiad @ May 21 2011, 02:09 PM)

*
hahaha stupid question asked to a stupid host.

God is one with 3 roles, which God took being a Father to all humans, Christ the Son to set precedence to all of God's children as a role model and saviour, and the Holy Spirit, which is to guide the humans and giving spiritual gifts.

Only a muslim would confuse themselves with such questions of 3 gods or 1 god, and not even knowing that God can take 3 roles and manifest in them via omnipresence because God is omnipotent.


LovesReborn
post May 22 2011, 02:42 PM

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it's kind of kind to understand the concept of trinity, and different people might give different illustrations. 2 of the illustrations that i use the most would be:
illus 1:
think of a cup of milk coffee. a milk coffee is only a milk coffee when there is black coffee, sugar/creamer and milk, they are 3 but yet known as 1, milk coffee. it's not a complete picture, but it can be absorbed easily by many people who first come across this trinity issue.

illus 2:
think of your father. your father is a father, at the same time, he is a man, and he is also a husband. this illustration is also pretty simple and straight forward.

if i remembered correctly, there is one question posed mentioning that "your God is weaker than a bunch of jews". to reply this, there are many point, but the host didn't even mention 1 of them. hmm.gif (by the way, after some googling, seems like the video is made by anti-christians and the channel does not really exists) alright, some answers smile.gif Jesus died in the form of a man. Jesus was a man in nature, but a God in identity. there for the man can die, but the identity of God remains. this is not going to be easily explained... i give up explaining this through online forum. doh.gif . apart from that, Jesus' crucifixion is part of God's plan. an animal need to be sacrificed so that the sin of man can be put on to the animal and the animal die in place of the human. it's also similar to Muslims, Hari Raya Korban. to carry the sins for all, a pure spotless being is needed. therefore Jesus came.

TShappy4ever
post May 22 2011, 03:28 PM

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QUOTE(LovesReborn @ May 22 2011, 02:42 PM)
it's kind of kind to understand the concept of trinity, and different people might give different illustrations. 2 of the illustrations that i use the most would be:
illus 1:
think of a cup of milk coffee. a milk coffee is only a milk coffee when there is black coffee, sugar/creamer and milk, they are 3 but yet known as 1, milk coffee. it's not a complete picture, but it can be absorbed easily by many people who first come across this trinity issue.

illus 2:
think of your father. your father is a father, at the same time, he is a man, and he is also a husband. this illustration is also pretty simple and straight forward.

if i remembered correctly, there is one question posed mentioning that "your God is weaker than a bunch of jews". to reply this, there are many point, but the host didn't even mention 1 of them. hmm.gif (by the way, after some googling, seems like the video is made by anti-christians and the channel does not really exists) alright, some answers smile.gif Jesus died in the form of a man. Jesus was a man in nature, but a God in identity. there for the man can die, but the identity of God remains. this is not going to be easily explained... i give up explaining this through online forum. doh.gif . apart from that, Jesus' crucifixion is part of God's plan. an animal need to be sacrificed so that the sin of man can be put on to the animal and the animal die in place of the human. it's also similar to Muslims, Hari Raya Korban. to carry the sins for all, a pure spotless being is needed. therefore Jesus came.
*
Jesus' spirit is that of God notworthy.gif

hari raya korban is not a sin offering ritual that they practice. far from it. its very different from what Abraham did. (ie burnt offering).
pehkay
post May 23 2011, 11:00 AM

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QUOTE(LovesReborn @ May 22 2011, 02:42 PM)
it's kind of kind to understand the concept of trinity, and different people might give different illustrations. 2 of the illustrations that i use the most would be:
illus 1:
think of a cup of milk coffee. a milk coffee is only a milk coffee when there is black coffee, sugar/creamer and milk, they are 3 but yet known as 1, milk coffee. it's not a complete picture, but it can be absorbed easily by many people who first come across this trinity issue.

illus 2:
think of your father. your father is a father, at the same time, he is a man, and he is also a husband. this illustration is also pretty simple and straight forward.

if i remembered correctly, there is one question posed mentioning that "your God is weaker than a bunch of jews". to reply this, there are many point, but the host didn't even mention 1 of them. hmm.gif (by the way, after some googling, seems like the video is made by anti-christians and the channel does not really exists) alright, some answers smile.gif Jesus died in the form of a man. Jesus was a man in nature, but a God in identity. there for the man can die, but the identity of God remains. this is not going to be easily explained... i give up explaining this through online forum. doh.gif . apart from that, Jesus' crucifixion is part of God's plan. an animal need to be sacrificed so that the sin of man can be put on to the animal and the animal die in place of the human. it's also similar to Muslims, Hari Raya Korban. to carry the sins for all, a pure spotless being is needed. therefore Jesus came.
*
I posted this somewhere ... hope it is helpful for you:

God is uniquely one yet three

First Corinthians 8:4: "There is no God but one."

Isaiah 45:5: "I am Jehovah and there is no one else;/Besides Me there is no God." In verses 6, 21, and 22; 46:9; and 44:6, 8, we also find the same words.

Psalm 86:10: "Thou art God alone."

Although there is only one God, the Bible also reveals that this one God is plural, that He has the aspect of three. Genesis 1:1 says that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The Hebrew word for God in this verse is Elohim, which is plural in number.

Genesis 1:26 records that God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.” The words us and our show that the one God has a plural aspect. In Isaiah 6:8 God said, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?” In this verse I is us, and us is I. These verses shows us that God is not merely singular or merely plural. The God revealed in the Bible is “uni-plural.”

In Matthew 28:19 the Lord Jesus charged the disciples to baptize people into the name (singular) of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. C. I. Scofield says in a note to this verse in his reference Bible: “The word is in the singular, the `name,’ not names. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is the final name of the one true God.”

The Eternal Coexistence and Coinherence of the Divine Trinity

Isaiah 9:6 says, "Unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given...and his name shall be called...Mighty God, Everlasting Father." In this verse, the "Mighty God" matches the "child," and "Everlasting Father" matches the "son." Yes, He is a child, yet He is the Mighty God. The child who was born in the manger in Bethlehem was the Mighty God.

John 14:7-11 says, "If ye had known me, ye would have known my Father also: from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and dost thou not know me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; how sayest thou, Show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I say unto you I speak not from myself: but the Father abiding in me doeth his works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake." In these verses the Lord clearly reveals to us the mystery that He and the Father are one; He is in the Father and the Father is in Him; when He speaks, it is the Father who works; when men see Him, they see the Father; when they know Him, they know the Father, because He is the Father; He "and the Father are one" (John 10:30).

Second Corinthians 3:17 says, "The Lord is the Spirit." The "Lord" spoken of here, of course, is the Lord Jesus; and "the Spirit," of course, is the Holy Spirit.

The Father is God. Eph 1:17, 4:6, 1 Cor 1:3
Son is God. Heb 1:8, Romans 9:5, John 1:1,14
Spirit is God. In Acts 5 Peter told Ananias that he had lied to the Holy Spirit (v. 3). Then he said, “You have not lied to men but to God” (v. 4).


I guess there is just too many references to list here. Hope it helps.

The Father Is Eternal. Isa. 9:6;
The Son Is Eternal. Heb. 7:3;
The Spirit Is Eternal. Heb. 9:14


All Three of the Trinity are eternal. The Father, Son, and Spirit do not exist in three temporary, successive modes or stages. According to Isaiah 9:6, the Father is the eternal Father. Additionally, the Son, as the real Melchisedec in Hebrews 7:3, has “neither beginning of days nor end of life.” He is our High Priest perpetually. He is forever the same, and His years will not fail (Heb. 1:12). Finally, it was through the eternal Spirit that Christ offered Himself on the cross without blemish to God (Heb. 9:14).

The Father, the Son, and the Spirit Coexist and Coinhere. John 14:26; 15:26

That the Three of the Godhead are eternal implies that They coexist from eternity past through eternity future. Many verses demonstrate the coexistence among the Three of the Triune God. In one of the most graphic, Matthew’s account of Christ’s baptism, as Jesus the Son went up from the water, the Spirit of God descended upon Him as a dove and the Father testified from the heavens of His beloved Son (3:16-17). This scene clearly portrays the simultaneous existence of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. Further, in John 14:16-17 the Son promised to ask the Father to send the Spirit of reality as the second Comforter; the Father answered the Son’s prayer by sending the Spirit (John 14:26).

The Father and the Son Are Inseparable. John 14:10-11; 8:29; 16:32

Though the Three are distinct in their eternal coexistence, They are by no means three separate Gods. Rather, They coinhere mutually and inseparably; that is, They indwell one another. Throughout the Gospels, the Lord Jesus took many opportunities to reveal to the disciples His mysterious coinherent relationship with the Father. For example, in John 14:11, the Lord responded to Philip’s desire to see the Father by assuring him of Their intrinsic oneness: “Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me.” Thus the Son, while physically on the earth, mystically dwelt in the Father and the Father in the Son. In addition, the Lord declared in John 6:46, “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except Him who is from God, He has seen the Father.” The Greek preposition para, translated “from” in this verse, literally means “from with.” Hence, the Son sent from God was simultaneously sent with God. The Lord testified of this intimate inseparability: “He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone” (John 8:29).

I finish this post with this:

In order to know the truth concerning the Triune God in a full, complete, and balanced way. We need to see principle of the twofoldness of divine truth. Robert Govett in his booklet, "The Twofoldness of Divine Truth", says

The twofoldness of truth as offered to our view in Holy Writ is one strong argument of its not being the work of man. It is the glory of man’s intellect to produce oneness. His aim is to trace different results to one principle, to clear it of ambiguities, to show how, through varied appearances, one law holds. Anything that stands in the way of the completeness of this, he eludes or denies.

“But,” as Govett continues, “it is not so with God. In nature He is continually acting with two seemingly opposed principles”. Therefore, Govett says, “It is not then to be wondered at, if two seemingly opposed principles are found placed side by side in the Scripture. ‘Unity in plurality, plurality in unity’ is the main principle on which both the world and the Scripture are constructed”.

Recognizing that the truth concerning the Triune God is twofold is a requirement for knowing God in His trinity. This twofoldness of the truth is embodied in the word triune, a Latin word composed of tri-, meaning three, and -une, meaning one. To say that God is triune is to testify that He is three-one. He is uniquely one, yet He is distinctly and inseparably three. In the Godhead the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are distinct but inseparable. In God’s being one there is no separation among the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, and in God’s being three there is a distinction among the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. The three of the Trinity cannot be separated, yet there is a distinction among them. This is the twofoldness of the truth concerning the Triune God.
SUSDeadlocks
post May 30 2011, 03:35 AM

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New materials for you guys, unless of course, you've been exposed to this before:

Tis man actually speaks somethng of sense than many boring, recycled nonsense I hear from some churches nowadays:

Are people shocked by your views on heaven?



What Does Heaven Look Like?



What Will We Do In Heaven?



Will God Bring Heaven & Earth Together?



And for his other videos, check out the videos with "NT Wright on 100 Huntley Street" as a search on Youtube.




Zeliard
post Jun 2 2011, 07:47 PM

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Hi guys, I'm currently residing in Taiping. Any church(es) to recommend? Can list down the address for me? I'm a new guy in town.


This post has been edited by Zeliard: Jun 4 2011, 05:58 PM
dyelen
post Jun 6 2011, 11:28 AM

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QUOTE(valor89 @ May 20 2011, 03:51 PM)
wow, i've been trolling lyn for like 3 years+ and i never knew such a thread exist
haha. hi everyone  rclxms.gif
*
Hello All.

If anyone is new to PUTRA HEIGHTS or even in USJ, would like to recommend you to a church: FAITH CITY CHURCH PUTRA HEIGHTS.

More details can be found at Facebook.com/fccph

Great that I found this link on LYN as well.


debbieyss
post Jun 10 2011, 08:50 AM

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@pehkay, i have some christian friends whose parents passed away without being saved.

You know what I'm trying to ask? Would there be any possibility for these parents to be saved anyway?
pehkay
post Jun 10 2011, 02:32 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Jun 10 2011, 08:50 AM)
@pehkay, i have some christian friends whose parents passed away without being saved.

You know what I'm trying to ask? Would there be any possibility for these parents to be saved anyway?
*
Unfortunately ... no. :/ The Bible is quite explicit on it (with reference to Luke 16:19-31 - Lazarus and rich man). Unbelievers will have no hope of salvation after death. It is only in our individual lifetime.




debbieyss
post Jun 10 2011, 03:04 PM

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Isn't Acts 16:31 says "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household."??
If what you say is correct, that means no matter what promises God has given in the bible, there are 'terms and conditions', God has exceptional cases not to keep the promises??? I was told God has never failed to keep His promises????

This post has been edited by debbieyss: Jun 10 2011, 03:18 PM
xaw5126
post Jun 10 2011, 04:19 PM

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@ debbieyss you're confused. you can't take the verse out of the context and try to fit it to your lesson.

short version ; each of us is judged as we lived. an unbeliever is one who hears the Gospel and refuses it. repeatedly.

God never fails to keep his promises, including this one "The wages of sin is death" ... how about that?
supermoto
post Jun 10 2011, 04:25 PM

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only christian movie like is
user posted image
pehkay
post Jun 10 2011, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Jun 10 2011, 03:04 PM)
Isn't Acts 16:31 says "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household."??
If what you say is correct, that means no matter what promises God has given in the bible, there are 'terms and conditions', God has exceptional cases not to keep the promises??? I was told God has never failed to keep His promises????
*
That verse indicate that the family of the believer is a complete unit for God's salvation, like the family of Noah (Gen. 7:1), the families partaking of the Passover (Exo. 12:3-4), the family of the harlot Rahab (Josh. 2:18-19), the family of Zaccheus (Luke 19:9), the family of Cornelius (11:14), the family of Lydia (v. 15), the family of the jailer here, and the family of Crispus in 18:8.

"And Jesus said to him, Today salvation has come to this house" (Luke 19:9).

This word of the Lord Jesus was spoken to a great sinner, Zaccheus the tax collector, confirming that a family is the unit of God's salvation brought by the Lord. The Lord did not say that salvation had come to that person that day, but rather that salvation had come to that house. Undoubtedly, the Lord wanted Zaccheus's entire household to believe in Him and be saved. The Lord's word to Zaccheus was at once a suggestion and a notice to him!

"And leading them [the Apostles Paul and Silas] outside, he said, Sirs, what must I do that I may be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved, you and your household" (Acts 16:30-31).

This is the dialogue between the Philippian jailer and the two apostles. The jailer asked what he himself should do to be saved; however, the apostles answered that not only he himself but also he and his household would be saved. This proves that in the heart of the apostles, sent by the Lord to preach His gospel, the Lord's salvation was for the individual, while its unit was the household. Again, the apostles' word to the jailer is both a suggestion and a notice that he should not only pay attention to his personal salvation, but also to that of his whole family!

"Send to Joppa and send for Simon who is surnamed Peter, who will speak words to you by which you shall be saved, you and all your household" (Acts 11:13-14). "And Cornelius was awaiting them, having called together his relatives and intimate friends" (Acts 10:24). "While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those hearing the word" (Acts 10:44). "And he charged them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ" (Acts 10:48).

This is the story of the salvation of the household of Cornelius, who was a centurion in the Roman military, and of his intimate friends. This story also proves that a person's entire family is the unit of the salvation applied by the Spirit upon men. Cornelius led not only his whole family but also his intimate friends to receive the Lord. This coincides with what was mentioned before, that is, that an entire Israelite household should share the Passover lamb with their neighbor.
=========================================
But it does not mean that we do nothing on our side and assume the Lord will do it. Like I mentioned before, predestination and human responsibility goes hand in hand. I will quote from one section:

=========================================
FACT

God has accomplished everything for man. Since everything has been accomplished, certain “facts” exist. And since they are existing “facts,” man does not have to accomplish what has already been accomplished. All of God’s works are complete.

However, God’s grace is a righteous grace. This is why, with the “facts,” there is still the need for human cooperation. What kind of cooperation is this? It is not to add anything to what He has finished, but to have man acknowledge that what God has done is real. This is faith.

FAITH

Faith is to acknowledge that what God has said and done is true. Faith is to accept the facts, that is, to acknowledge them as facts.

Faith is a “cashing in.” I use the words “cashing in” in the sense of one cashing a check at the bank. Suppose someone gives you a check. That the bank has the money is a fact. For you to cash the check for money is to acknowledge the fact that the bank possesses whatever amount is written on the check. It takes faith to “cash in.” With faith, one can cash in and thereby have the money to use. Now, to spend the money is the experience.” To have the money in the bank is the “fact,” to cash the check is “faith,” and to spend the money is “experience.” In God’s grace, what He has done for man are facts. But man must still experience these facts.

EXPERIENCE

To experience God’s grace is to claim by faith the facts that God has accomplished for man. These facts are accomplished by God. What man needs is faith. The facts belong to God, and the experience belongs to man. Thus, faith is God’s facts becoming man’s experience. What the Bible shows us is simply “fact, faith, and experience.”

==========================================

I known a believer who was saved and he prayed for his parents daily, "claiming from God", reminding Him of the verses you mentioned on household salvation. Not only that, he took opportunity to preach the gospel to his parents whenever is possible. It took him after 30+ years for his parent's salvation. What I am saying, in his conscience, if God did not save his parents, is clear and he can say God did not predestined that his parents will be saved. He fulfilled his responsibility on his side.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jun 10 2011, 04:49 PM
debbieyss
post Jun 10 2011, 08:36 PM

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@pehkay, I share you few real life testi:

1. My best friend, who is a christian, having a mother who had just recovered from cancer. My best friend has not been praying earnestly for her mother's salvation, not just that, she even 'show interest in females' and not opposite sex/males, that, her mother had accepted Christ in the beginning stage of the recovery.

2. Another friend who had accepted Christ when she was a teen and that she seldom prays for her family, even committed pre-marital sex. In the end, her family members were saved, attending church regularly.

Base on the 2 real life examples here, I just find you have over-analyzed God's way in saving a household, it's simply too theoretical, which is not what I have expected. I am disappointed that when someone is already so hopeless and helpless, he is required to drain himself to have faith in God. So, this time I am not able to agree with what you have analyzed. But I do appreciate your kindness and patience in replying my questions. smile.gif
debbieyss
post Jun 10 2011, 08:40 PM

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QUOTE(xaw5126 @ Jun 10 2011, 04:19 PM)
@ debbieyss you're confused. you can't take the verse out of the context and try to fit it to your lesson.

short version ; each of us is judged as we lived. an unbeliever is one who hears the Gospel and refuses it. repeatedly.

God never fails to keep his promises, including this one "The wages of sin is death" ... how about that?
*
Thanks for replying but my questions are not answered, you don't get my point.
SUSDeadlocks
post Jun 10 2011, 08:59 PM

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QUOTE(debbieyss @ Jun 10 2011, 08:50 AM)
@pehkay, i have some christian friends whose parents passed away without being saved.

You know what I'm trying to ask? Would there be any possibility for these parents to be saved anyway?
*
QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 10 2011, 02:32 PM)
Unfortunately ... no. :/ The Bible is quite explicit on it (with reference to Luke 16:19-31 - Lazarus and rich man). Unbelievers will have no hope of salvation after death. It is only in our individual lifetime.
*
Not exactly. If you have understood the Bible spiritually, you will know that if there is no hope and salvation at all, then the Son of Man will never be needed to die on the cross in the first place.
thelion4ever
post Jun 10 2011, 09:12 PM

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God forgives all who are sincere and repent.

Just watched Passion of Christ and I cried.

Great video laugh.gif

thelion4ever
post Jun 10 2011, 10:31 PM

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QUOTE(LovesReborn @ May 21 2011, 04:02 PM)
i wonder the host is from which church. hmm.gif
oh, and the bible that he uses too hmm.gif

argh, got to know the bible that he uses. he uses his own bible, richard neon bible. now that's something new...
im pretty sure many christians here can answer those questions brought up. thumbup.gif
*
That guy fail , not to judge him but he seemed unsure about a lot of things nod.gif
QUOTE(happy4ever @ May 22 2011, 11:21 AM)
hahaha stupid question asked to a stupid host.

God is one with 3 roles, which God took being a Father to all humans, Christ the Son to set precedence to all of God's children as a role model and saviour, and the Holy Spirit, which is to guide the humans and giving spiritual gifts.

Only a muslim would confuse themselves with such questions of 3 gods or 1 god, and not even knowing that God can take 3 roles and manifest in them via omnipresence because God is omnipotent.
*
Yea, it took me quite a while to understand the concept.

QUOTE(debbieyss @ Jun 10 2011, 07:50 AM)
@pehkay, i have some christian friends whose parents passed away without being saved.

You know what I'm trying to ask? Would there be any possibility for these parents to be saved anyway?
*
Your friend's parents made a choice for themselves.

My grandfather accepted christ moments before he died. The nurse said his legs and hands reached for heaven and he was mumbling something about jesus and then he died but I'm wasn't there so I'm not so sure unsure.gif
zord189
post Jun 10 2011, 10:46 PM

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Nice to meet you all =) Am going to New Life Restoration Centre in Cheras, Just opposite Charis church. Wat's with all the debate? Let us share our testimony with each other. =D
laucn
post Jun 16 2011, 10:46 AM

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dear bro & sis,
i want to visit Israel alone, i need some advice on passport
matter and amount of money i need to prepare. is it ok to visit Israel around august - december? thanks.

prophetjul
post Jun 16 2011, 11:00 AM

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QUOTE
QUOTE(debbieyss @ Jun 10 2011, 08:50 AM)
@pehkay, i have some christian friends whose parents passed away without being saved.

You know what I'm trying to ask? Would there be any possibility for these parents to be saved anyway?



QUOTE
QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 10 2011, 02:32 PM)
Unfortunately ... no. :/ The Bible is quite explicit on it (with reference to Luke 16:19-31 - Lazarus and rich man). Unbelievers will have no hope of salvation after death. It is only in our individual lifetime.


QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Jun 10 2011, 08:59 PM)
Not exactly. If you have understood the Bible spiritually, you will know that if there is no hope and salvation at all, then the Son of Man will never be needed to die on the cross in the first place.
*
Deadlocks

Dont understand you here......

i tend to agree with pehkay
thelion4ever
post Jun 18 2011, 08:10 PM

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QUOTE(laucn @ Jun 16 2011, 10:46 AM)
dear bro & sis,
i want to visit Israel alone, i need some advice on passport
matter and amount of money i need to prepare. is it ok to visit Israel around august - december? thanks.
*
Ermmmmm, I think you need to enter through egypt if I'm not wrong. Cannot directly go there icon_question.gif
QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jun 16 2011, 11:00 AM)
Deadlocks

Dont understand you here......

i tend to agree with pehkay
*
What don't you understand??

Deadlocks is merely saying that if there was no sin committed by people, then Jesus has no reason to die for us
pehkay
post Jun 19 2011, 07:03 PM

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QUOTE(thelion4ever @ Jun 18 2011, 08:10 PM)
Ermmmmm, I think you need to enter through egypt if I'm not wrong. Cannot directly go there icon_question.gif

What don't you understand??

Deadlocks is merely saying that if there was no sin committed by people, then Jesus has no reason to die for us
*
Haha, that's what he said but it is not what he alluded to tongue.gif

Spiritually, I agreed with him that Christ's death is eternal. But, unfortunately, salvation after death is not possible. That would be very unrighteous. Imagine all those ended on the other side of Hades will definitely declare I want to believe into Christ. But, the rich man didn't have way as the parable shows that he pleaded with Abraham to send Lazarus back to preach to his brothers.




SUSWintersuN
post Jun 19 2011, 07:23 PM

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The Jesus story is tooooo fake!!! I read the first part of the bible story if fit into todays context, you will realize its the same as a conman story. Just that the people illustrated in the bible seems gullible or maybe uneducated.

If Jesus exists in todays era, do you honestly think u guys will be his disciple and shit like that?

Example, his disciples Simon and Andrew the fishermens.

Here it goes:

As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. 19“Come, follow me,” Jesus said, “and I will make you fishers of men.” 20At once they left their nets and followed him.

doh.gif This story is soooo Disney channel fairytale. Someone just ask u follow him then u will immediately follow him?

I try to convince my self that Jesus is the saviour but the more i read the more skeptic i became thats why i stop reading the bible to at least save my doubt towards the bible storyline
pehkay
post Jun 19 2011, 08:54 PM

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QUOTE(WintersuN @ Jun 19 2011, 07:23 PM)
The Jesus story is tooooo fake!!! I read the first part of the bible story if fit into todays context, you will realize its the same as a conman story. Just that the people illustrated in the bible seems gullible or maybe uneducated.

If Jesus exists in todays era, do you honestly think u guys will be his disciple and shit like that?

Example, his disciples Simon and Andrew the fishermens.

Here it goes:

As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. 19“Come, follow me,” Jesus said, “and I will make you fishers of men.” 20At once they left their nets and followed him.

doh.gif  This story is soooo Disney channel fairytale. Someone just ask u follow him then u will immediately follow him?

I try to convince my self that Jesus is the saviour but the more i read the more skeptic i became thats why i stop reading the bible to at least save my doubt towards the bible storyline
*
Christ in His incarnation came to earth not only to bring the infinite God into the finite man and to unite and mingle the Triune God with the tripartite man, but also to express the bountiful God in His humanity, His human living. God is bountiful in His rich and many attributes. The attributes of God are what God is. He is love, light, holiness, and righteousness. We all admire humility. The real humble One is God. He was the infinite God, but He humbled Himself to become a finite man. Philippians 2:6-7 says that He existed in the form of God, but He took the form of a slave, becoming in the likeness of men. Verse 8 says, "And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient even unto death, and that the death of a cross." He was in the form of God, but He humbled Himself to put on the form of man, becoming obedient to God, even unto the death of the cross. He became a servant, washing the feet of His disciples (John 13:1-11). God is the real One that is humble. Humility is one of the many attributes of God. God's attributes were expressed in Christ as a man to be Christ's virtues. Christ expressed the bountiful God in His human living, mainly expressing God in His rich attributes, that is, in the unsearchable riches of what God is.

When the attributes of God became the virtues of Christ in His humanity, these virtues were very aromatic and sweet. This is why so many people throughout the centuries have been captivated by Jesus and love Jesus. He is so sweet and good. Christ attracted and captivated people not by living His human life in the flesh but by living His divine life in resurrection.
SUSWintersuN
post Jun 19 2011, 08:56 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 19 2011, 08:54 PM)
Christ in His incarnation came to earth not only to bring the infinite God into the finite man and to unite and mingle the Triune God with the tripartite man, but also to express the bountiful God in His humanity, His human living. God is bountiful in His rich and many attributes. The attributes of God are what God is. He is love, light, holiness, and righteousness. We all admire humility. The real humble One is God. He was the infinite God, but He humbled Himself to become a finite man. Philippians 2:6-7 says that He existed in the form of God, but He took the form of a slave, becoming in the likeness of men. Verse 8 says, "And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient even unto death, and that the death of a cross." He was in the form of God, but He humbled Himself to put on the form of man, becoming obedient to God, even unto the death of the cross. He became a servant, washing the feet of His disciples (John 13:1-11). God is the real One that is humble. Humility is one of the many attributes of God. God's attributes were expressed in Christ as a man to be Christ's virtues. Christ expressed the bountiful God in His human living, mainly expressing God in His rich attributes, that is, in the unsearchable riches of what God is.

When the attributes of God became the virtues of Christ in His humanity, these virtues were very aromatic and sweet. This is why so many people throughout the centuries have been captivated by Jesus and love Jesus. He is so sweet and good. Christ attracted and captivated people not by living His human life in the flesh but by living His divine life in resurrection.
*
rclxub.gif
laucn
post Jun 20 2011, 07:09 PM

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bro, great that you are willing to read the holy bible.

allow me to share the process how i finally accepted Christ

born in a traditional chinese family, i used to follow my seniors family members worship many idols, ancestors, buddha & even follow the way of Taoism. but i felt emptyness within, & the ideal of afterlife from what i learnt are fearfull (which i might reborn into a coachraoch shocking.gif tongue.gif ) then i even choose not to believe any gods, as result of disappointment in my life. but then, the salvation has came to me.

while i was with atheism, an uncle guide me to think: if u saw a BMW at roadside, do u think that ultimate driving machine just get assembled by itself by coincident? do u think this world, yourself just result of coincident? i was shock as i never realize this before. then my friend gave me a bible. i read, but doubt how true is the holy bible. same as you, i think it is ridiculous. smile.gif

then i met a lecturer from a local U, through her i learnt the origin & history of the holy bible. it was mostly about the history of the Israel race& their relationship with God. i learnt that Israel was a stubborn race that how carefull they pass down the holy bible (old testament). Jews passed down the bible that i can safely trust the old testament (OT) . and then Jesus birth fullfilled the prophecies in OT , & made us a clear picture of the way & the truth.

yes, it also seems ridiculous for some history in bible. but in the end, God is full of humour, creative, & He is the one made impossible possible. icon_rolleyes.gif

God bless you, & hope we meet in heaven, if not earth biggrin.gif


Added on June 20, 2011, 7:13 pmlast but not least, the entire country of Israel itself which still exist with strong presence today is a living miracle, that our God , the almighty God, is a living God, whom watched over Israel since ancient time, till now, & forever.

This post has been edited by laucn: Jun 20 2011, 07:13 PM
lycaphim
post Jun 20 2011, 07:20 PM

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QUOTE(WintersuN @ Jun 19 2011, 07:23 PM)
The Jesus story is tooooo fake!!! I read the first part of the bible story if fit into todays context, you will realize its the same as a conman story. Just that the people illustrated in the bible seems gullible or maybe uneducated.


But it doesn't fit into today's context. Jesus' narratives were written nearly 2000 years ago and it would be foolish to bring modern (21st century) presuppositions about how a story should look like into a 1st century narrative.

QUOTE
If Jesus exists in todays era, do you honestly think u guys will be his disciple and shit like that?


Yes.

QUOTE
doh.gif  This story is soooo Disney channel fairytale. Someone just ask u follow him then u will immediately follow him?


1. You are bringing modern presuppositions and bias into the text. "Disney channel fairytale" is both an unfortunate and revealing comment. You are bringing modern conceptions about fairytales and whenever you find something that looks like a fairytale you will immediately say, "Hah! Looks like a fairytale that I saw in Disney, therefore it's a fairytale!". This is not a very good way to read history.

2. The way people wrote stories back then is very different than today. Whereas today it is proper to explain in detail the motivations of characters, it was acceptable practice then to shorten and redact narratives to illustrate the main point.

3. The point here is that the disciples chose to accept Jesus' calling without hesitating.

QUOTE
I try to convince my self that Jesus is the saviour but the more i read the more skeptic i became thats why i stop reading the bible to at least save my doubt towards the bible storyline


It's good that you are reading the Bible and unfortunate that you have decided to stop. I would recommend that you take the time to read this article, which will shed some light about Jesus claims and ministry: http://www.scribd.com/doc/54680172/Self-Re...n-Human-History


Pinarello
post Jun 20 2011, 08:28 PM

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Pray for Israel and Jeruselam. The time for God's children to return home is coming soon. The land of Abraham has been standing long in the midst of modern turmoil and unrest. No land has ever stand such a long test and still survive as still a nation.

The Roman empire , the chinese empire, the revolution, the holy wars.

Gods hands are always on His promised land and his people.
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post Jun 26 2011, 07:03 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 19 2011, 07:03 PM)
Haha, that's what he said but it is not what he alluded to tongue.gif

Spiritually, I agreed with him that Christ's death is eternal. But, unfortunately, salvation after death is not possible. That would be very unrighteous. Imagine all those ended on the other side of Hades will definitely declare I want to believe into Christ. But, the rich man didn't have way as the parable shows that he pleaded with Abraham to send Lazarus back to preach to his brothers.
*
Only if you believe "Hell", is actually a location which is part of the polarisation between Heaven and Hell, which is popularised only during the Middle Ages, and hence forth.

I got this idea by understanding that the Bible have some contradiction to what reality depicts. One of the best example is asking the simplest question:

"The Word of God is absolute. Then by all means, shouldn't there be only ONE testament, instead of TWO? Sure they call it the "old" and "new", sometimes for the sake of chronology, but the division leaves room for question about those who authored the book, when there is obviously ONE god, with ONE testament, not TWO."

Because of this, whenever I find something that is wrong in accordance to what life really is, (if you have lived honestly), I knew something was edited out.

Hence now there are 2 types of Christians.

1) One who lives by the book.
2) One who lives in reality, with the book as a guidance, and investigated it for he/she is true and honest about the world around him/her.

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post Jun 26 2011, 09:04 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Jun 26 2011, 07:03 PM)
Only if you believe "Hell", is actually a location which is part of the polarisation between Heaven and Hell, which is popularised only during the Middle Ages, and hence forth.

I got this idea by understanding that the Bible have some contradiction to what reality depicts. One of the best example is asking the simplest question:

"The Word of God is absolute. Then by all means, shouldn't there be only ONE testament, instead of TWO? Sure they call it the "old" and "new", sometimes for the sake of chronology, but the division leaves room for question about those who authored the book, when there is obviously ONE god, with ONE testament, not TWO."

Because of this, whenever I find something that is wrong in accordance to what life really is, (if you have lived honestly), I knew something was edited out.

Hence now there are 2 types of Christians.

1) One who lives by the book.
2) One who lives in reality, with the book as a guidance, and investigated it for he/she is true and honest about the world around him/her.
*
God's Word isn't written by God. its inspired by God, written by man.

the 2nd one i hardly would consider him a Christian. More like a make belief mumbo jumboist.

Bottom line is, why do you even wanna associate yourself with christianity in the first place? delusional? if you're really honest about it, you'd be an atheist. so which is which now.
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post Jun 26 2011, 09:06 PM

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QUOTE(Pinarello @ Jun 20 2011, 08:28 PM)
Pray for Israel and Jeruselam. The time for God's children to return home is coming soon. The land of Abraham has been standing long in the midst of modern turmoil and unrest. No land has ever stand such a long test and still survive as still a nation.

The Roman empire , the chinese empire, the revolution, the holy wars.

Gods hands are always on His promised land and his people.
*
And God has blessed Israel with treasures beneath their feet, and thus its prophecy fulfilled when they found petroleum at their shores!

hallelujah!
SUSDeadlocks
post Jun 26 2011, 10:40 PM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Jun 26 2011, 09:04 PM)
God's Word isn't written by God. its inspired by God, written by man.

the 2nd one i hardly would consider him a Christian. More like a make belief mumbo jumboist.

Bottom line is, why do you even wanna associate yourself with christianity in the first place? delusional? if you're really honest about it, you'd be an atheist. so which is which now.
*
Only if you think christianity is what it is. There was never a "Christianity" as how humanity will describe it.

It is evident that I do not perceive "Christianity" the way how most of the world did.

All I see is the repeat of the "Pharisees era", where a religion is taken, advocated, mass-produced, and completely misinterpreted it.

Do not be surpise when the world has a second Saul (Paul) too, because it is repeating.

I believe in the God from the Bible, but I can tell what's right and wrong. It takes experience and the Spirit to help you do that.

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Jun 26 2011, 10:41 PM
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post Jun 26 2011, 10:42 PM

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pehkay
post Jun 28 2011, 06:38 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Jun 26 2011, 07:03 PM)
Only if you believe "Hell", is actually a location which is part of the polarisation between Heaven and Hell, which is popularised only during the Middle Ages, and hence forth.

I got this idea by understanding that the Bible have some contradiction to what reality depicts. One of the best example is asking the simplest question:

"The Word of God is absolute. Then by all means, shouldn't there be only ONE testament, instead of TWO? Sure they call it the "old" and "new", sometimes for the sake of chronology, but the division leaves room for question about those who authored the book, when there is obviously ONE god, with ONE testament, not TWO."

Because of this, whenever I find something that is wrong in accordance to what life really is, (if you have lived honestly), I knew something was edited out.

Hence now there are 2 types of Christians.

1) One who lives by the book.
2) One who lives in reality, with the book as a guidance, and investigated it for he/she is true and honest about the world around him/her.
*
What you are describing are two extremes in the people coming to the Word. This is why we need to know the two-foldness of the truth: the objective and subjective truth. If we can grasp these two aspects, we are able to grasp the tracks in the Bible. A train has two tracks on which to run. If there is only one track, the train will derail. With two tracks, the train can move ahead. Both the objective and subjective aspects of the truth need our attention.

The Bible is made up of words, but it is not man's word. It is God's word spoken through man. The Bible records the speaking of Daniel, Isaiah, Paul, etc. These men spoke on behalf of God, but this does not merely mean that God was speaking through Daniel, Isaiah, and Paul. It also means that the words that were spoken were also the words of Daniel, Isaiah, and Paul themselves.

It is not a question of how much of God's Word we can memorize or how well we can quote it. Nor is it a matter of how much we know or how familiar we are with God's Word. The real issue is whether or not we can represent God when we speak. We all know that Paul wrote two Epistles to the Corinthians. There are some words in his Epistles which he confessed were not commandments of the Lord (1 Cor. 7:25). He could say this because he had become one with Christ. We can say that he was speaking what the Lord was speaking. These words were not words of inspiration, but words that were the result of Paul's constitution. When Paul spoke, it was Christ speaking.

Words of inspiration and revelation can be received in an instant. But it takes a long process for Christ to be constituted and formed in us. This process cannot be accomplished within a short period of time. It is a prolonged work that goes on a little at a time. One has to maintain a continual hidden fellowship with the Lord before such constitution can be produced.

In quoting God's Word, we have to pay attention to one thing. It is not a matter of quoting the words that God spoke to men of old, like Moses, and applying it to situations today. It is a matter of whether or not we can speak what God wants us to speak when we quote such a word. In his time Moses spoke what God wanted him to speak. Can you say that God wants to speak the same thing to men today? Can you say that this is not just a quotation?

We must not only have God's spoken word, the logos, that is, the black and white letters, but also the Lord's shining of these spoken words in our spirit to become the instant word, the rhema, before we can speak these words.

For example, many people can give a message on the story of Cain and Abel. But it is not a matter of whether one can extract more novel teachings from these passages. It is a matter of whether or not God can speak what He wants to speak to man today through such a message.

PS ... why are there 2 testaments .... because Christ's coming marks the new tongue.gif .... the old Testament do not have Christ wrought into them but the new Testament does ...

So then if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away; behold, they have become new (2 Cor 5:17) cool.gif

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jun 28 2011, 06:43 PM
SUSDeadlocks
post Jul 3 2011, 01:12 AM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 28 2011, 06:38 PM)
What you are describing are two extremes in the people coming to the Word. This is why we need to know the two-foldness of the truth: the objective and subjective truth. If we can grasp these two aspects, we are able to grasp the tracks in the Bible. A train has two tracks on which to run. If there is only one track, the train will derail. With two tracks, the train can move ahead. Both the objective and subjective aspects of the truth need our attention.

The Bible is made up of words, but it is not man's word. It is God's word spoken through man. The Bible records the speaking of Daniel, Isaiah, Paul, etc. These men spoke on behalf of God, but this does not merely mean that God was speaking through Daniel, Isaiah, and Paul. It also means that the words that were spoken were also the words of Daniel, Isaiah, and Paul themselves.

It is not a question of how much of God's Word we can memorize or how well we can quote it. Nor is it a matter of how much we know or how familiar we are with God's Word. The real issue is whether or not we can represent God when we speak. We all know that Paul wrote two Epistles to the Corinthians. There are some words in his Epistles which he confessed were not commandments of the Lord (1 Cor. 7:25). He could say this because he had become one with Christ. We can say that he was speaking what the Lord was speaking. These words were not words of inspiration, but words that were the result of Paul's constitution. When Paul spoke, it was Christ speaking.

Words of inspiration and revelation can be received in an instant. But it takes a long process for Christ to be constituted and formed in us. This process cannot be accomplished within a short period of time. It is a prolonged work that goes on a little at a time. One has to maintain a continual hidden fellowship with the Lord before such constitution can be produced.

In quoting God's Word, we have to pay attention to one thing. It is not a matter of quoting the words that God spoke to men of old, like Moses, and applying it to situations today. It is a matter of whether or not we can speak what God wants us to speak when we quote such a word. In his time Moses spoke what God wanted him to speak. Can you say that God wants to speak the same thing to men today? Can you say that this is not just a quotation?

We must not only have God's spoken word, the logos, that is, the black and white letters, but also the Lord's shining of these spoken words in our spirit to become the instant word, the rhema, before we can speak these words.

For example, many people can give a message on the story of Cain and Abel. But it is not a matter of whether one can extract more novel teachings from these passages. It is a matter of whether or not God can speak what He wants to speak to man today through such a message.

PS ... why are there 2 testaments .... because Christ's coming marks the new tongue.gif .... the old Testament do not have Christ wrought into them but the new Testament does ...

So then if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away; behold, they have become new (2 Cor 5:17)  cool.gif
*
You were simply elaborating of what I think of the Bible, but unfortunately I've met many bible thumpers who took the words in the Bible way too literally. And about me doubting the authenticity of the Bible? It came from the same question. The Old and the New Testament. Like I said, which is similar to yours. It is meant to mark the chronology of the times before and the arrivial of Jesus. Yet, the fact that Jesus came down to make things new, then by all means God has only ONE testament now. NEVER two different ones.

One God, one testament. For He is absolute.

With this I knew something, or rather someone has been touching the Bible somewhere around the centuries. Aside from these, with the help of the Spirit, I've began to see a number of important subtle subliminalities that made up today's humanity, and believe me when I say things are about to repeat in the preent that came from the Bible, the Pharisees era, and of how other sins have evolved into new diseases and plagues.

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Jul 3 2011, 04:04 AM
~sky~
post Jul 4 2011, 02:13 PM

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Hi everyone,
On the 24th of July the Lisbon Chamber Choir (Coro de Câmara de Lisboa) from Portugal and the KL Children's Choir from Kuala Lumpur are organizing the unique "2-in-1" international standard choir performance at UCSI Main Campus, Taman Connaught, Cheras. Anyone interested can PM me. Tickets are available. Please come and support us. For more information http://lisbonchoir.blogspot.com/
jimmykvt
post Jul 16 2011, 10:48 PM

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I'm not a christian but find these 2 songs very nice, and wish to share with you guys and girls. Sarah Reeve's "Sweet Sweet Sound" and Plumb's "God Shaped Hole". Both are labelled as Christian songs, enjoy smile.gif







This post has been edited by jimmykvt: Jul 16 2011, 10:52 PM
mekboyz
post Jul 16 2011, 11:22 PM

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i never liked christian music. sounded too preachy to me
Pinarello
post Jul 16 2011, 11:29 PM

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Anyone here attending Asia Ablaze Conference in Stadium Putra, Bkt Jalil on 2-4 August 2011?

Rodney Howard Brown gona bring lots of imparting gifts of the spirit, gona be loads of revelations and real life stuffs.

Revival might be on its way to this nation sooner that we expected. Time and season of glory invasion of heaven on earth, to see the whole world taken back to Gods Kingdom.

All welcomed to join and experience the REAL stuff of life.

Habakkuk 2:14 - For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.


Added on July 16, 2011, 11:39 pm


This post has been edited by Pinarello: Jul 16 2011, 11:39 PM
eXyzt
post Jul 17 2011, 02:53 PM

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QUOTE(Pinarello @ Jul 16 2011, 11:29 PM)
Anyone here attending Asia Ablaze Conference in Stadium Putra, Bkt Jalil on 2-4 August 2011?

Rodney Howard Brown gona bring lots of imparting gifts of the spirit, gona be loads of revelations and real life stuffs.

Revival might be on its way to this nation sooner that we expected. Time and season of glory invasion of heaven on earth, to see the whole world taken back to Gods Kingdom.

All welcomed to join and experience the REAL stuff of life.

Habakkuk 2:14 - For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.


Added on July 16, 2011, 11:39 pm

*
Revival is definitely coming sooner. We have to think in months, not years.
jbb_lkh
post Jul 18 2011, 02:29 AM

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No one went for the DUMC Sidney Mohede's worship?
TShappy4ever
post Jul 18 2011, 02:33 AM

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QUOTE(jbb_lkh @ Jul 18 2011, 02:29 AM)
No one went for the DUMC Sidney Mohede's worship?
*
Sunday got! sore voice he had laugh.gif
mekboyz
post Jul 18 2011, 02:36 AM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Jul 18 2011, 02:33 AM)
Sunday got! sore voice he had  laugh.gif
*
hello. haven't seen you in a while. since your confession thread lol
jbb_lkh
post Jul 18 2011, 02:38 AM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Jul 18 2011, 02:33 AM)
Sunday got! sore voice he had  laugh.gif
*
Poor thing.
TShappy4ever
post Jul 18 2011, 02:48 AM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Jul 18 2011, 02:36 AM)
hello. haven't seen you in a while. since your confession thread lol
*
oh have been busy in work. miss mee? wub.gif

QUOTE(jbb_lkh @ Jul 18 2011, 02:38 AM)
Poor thing.
*
but he still can sing!

And yes... setting Jesus as the center of our life is absolute! rclxms.gif
SUSStationMonkey
post Jul 18 2011, 02:56 AM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Jul 16 2011, 11:22 PM)
i never liked christian music. sounded too preachy to me
*


I heard they're christian rock bands... Doesn't sound preachy to me. But I enjoy their music. Very nice. laugh.gif
TShappy4ever
post Jul 18 2011, 03:14 AM

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PETRA ROCK!


mysa_strato
post Jul 18 2011, 03:48 AM

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Hi! Do Christians jamming at their church?
pehkay
post Jul 18 2011, 05:34 PM

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The goal of God's salvation is to make us His vessels (Rom. 9:23-24). He put Himself as the "treasure" within us, the vessels (2 Cor. 4:7). From the time we were saved, God has been working on us continually to put more of Himself deeply into us so that we might gradually become lost in Him. This results in a deeper union in life with Him, which ultimately reaches perfection.

The goal of life is to bring God into man so that man may become lost in God. In this way, God and man, man and God become perfectly one.
mekboyz
post Jul 18 2011, 05:38 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jul 18 2011, 05:34 PM)
The goal of life is to bring God into man so that man may become lost in God. In this way, God and man, man and God become perfectly one.
*
isnt the real goal of life basically to live your life to the fullest way possible.
lycaphim
post Jul 18 2011, 05:44 PM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Jul 18 2011, 05:38 PM)
isnt the real goal of life  basically to live your life to the fullest way possible.
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Says who? biggrin.gif
mekboyz
post Jul 18 2011, 05:47 PM

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QUOTE(lycaphim @ Jul 18 2011, 05:44 PM)
Says who?  biggrin.gif
*
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but...will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

—Marcus Aurelius, the great Roman Emperor


jbb_lkh
post Aug 3 2011, 11:30 PM

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Something to share... Love it the moment I heard it.
Enjoy!!!


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post Aug 4 2011, 04:27 AM

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If anyone thinks that he has the right interpretation of the bible and that everyone else who is reading the bible as it is can't understand what god wants to reveals to that person by reading the bible, please write and publish "the bible as rewritten by <insert name>"
quintessential
post Aug 4 2011, 07:17 AM

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being a minority christian is a challenge in indonesia




faceless
post Aug 4 2011, 09:03 AM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jul 18 2011, 05:34 PM)
The goal of God's salvation is to make us His vessels (Rom. 9:23-24). He put Himself as the "treasure" within us, the vessels (2 Cor. 4:7). From the time we were saved, God has been working on us continually to put more of Himself deeply into us so that we might gradually become lost in Him. This results in a deeper union in life with Him, which ultimately reaches perfection.

The goal of life is to bring God into man so that man may become lost in God. In this way, God and man, man and God become perfectly one.
*

You have 24 hours a day. How many percent of that time have you managed to achieve this?

LovesReborn
post Aug 4 2011, 09:48 AM

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Asia Ablaze
anyone going? tonight is the last night. it's in bukit jalil putra indoor station from 7pm-10pm(probably ends around 10.30pm).
faceless
post Aug 4 2011, 09:54 AM

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Each time a GE is around the corner these big time evangelist will be permitted to come into the country in a big way.
lycaphim
post Aug 4 2011, 10:05 AM

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QUOTE(faceless @ Aug 4 2011, 09:54 AM)
Each time a GE is around the corner these big time evangelist will be permitted to come into the country in a big way.
*
Really? Can you provide other examples? I'm curious.
faceless
post Aug 4 2011, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(lycaphim @ Aug 4 2011, 10:05 AM)
Really? Can you provide other examples? I'm curious.
*

The last one I remembered was called "The Festival of Praise" held in Stadium Merdeka. It features miraculous healing.

pehkay
post Aug 4 2011, 10:22 AM

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QUOTE(faceless @ Aug 4 2011, 09:03 AM)
You have 24 hours a day. How many percent of that time have you managed to achieve this?
*
It varies. But life is full of opportunities biggrin.gif .. Every failures causes you to be open to the divine dispensing of God into you ...

Here's a song:

Life is full of opportunities
Ordered by our Father's hand: we see
Everything's the best that it could be,
So let's gain Christ!
Christ our content and reality
To shine out from us unceasingly:
He must have a way in you and me,
He must have a way.
Hallelujah! In the body we
Bear the death of Christ continually:
Thus His life comes forth for all to see as
The outer man is broken down,
The inner man is shining so that—
In these earthen vessels men can see
There's the treasure of reality!
Thus the gospel's glorious light will be
Shining out from us.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Aug 4 2011, 10:24 AM
lycaphim
post Aug 4 2011, 10:24 AM

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QUOTE(faceless @ Aug 4 2011, 10:12 AM)
The last one I remembered was called "The Festival of Praise" held in Stadium Merdeka. It features miraculous healing.
*
I see. It's a stretch though to link this with the "GE". I also remember a big name evangelist (Reinhard Bonke) coming in to Malaysia and it was not in any way linked to the upcoming election.

BTW, with Najib's popularity at a low after Bersih I don't think GE will be anytime soon.
faceless
post Aug 4 2011, 10:34 AM

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PehKay,
I did not ask for a song. I asked how many percent of the time you made god and you one. I dont think it is ever achievable.

QUOTE(lycaphim @ Aug 4 2011, 10:24 AM)
I see. It's a stretch though to link this with the "GE". I also remember a big name evangelist (Reinhard Bonke) coming in to Malaysia and it was not in any way linked to the upcoming election.

BTW, with Najib's popularity at a low after Bersih I don't think GE will be anytime soon.
*

I forget the name of the Evangelist, now that you mentioned the name, we may be talking about the same event. It was sometime in the early 90s when Jalil was not even built yet and Merdeka is the biggest Stadium in KL.

Dont kid yourself. It was organised by many churches with the AOG being the main organiser. They had been organising it for 3-4 years by persistently asking for permit which was never given until the GE was near.

pehkay
post Aug 4 2011, 10:51 AM

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QUOTE(faceless @ Aug 4 2011, 10:34 AM)
PehKay,
I did not ask for a song. I asked how many percent of the time you made god and you one. I dont think it is ever achievable.

I forget the name of the Evangelist, now that you mentioned the name, we may be talking about the same event. It was sometime in the early 90s when Jalil was not even built yet and Merdeka is the biggest Stadium in KL.

Dont kid yourself. It was organised by many churches with the AOG being the main organiser. They had been organising it for 3-4 years by persistently asking for permit which was never given until the GE was near.
*
It is achievable progressively when you grow in the divine life. Also walking by the spirit moment by moment as the most practical way.

For me experientially, from 1 hours to 7-8 hours, when I exercise to be in His presence, call on His name, enjoy His grace, prayed for His will, pray over His words, in everyday ordinary things ....

Yeah ... it is an exercise biggrin.gif to follow the anointing ..

This post has been edited by pehkay: Aug 4 2011, 10:54 AM
faceless
post Aug 4 2011, 11:41 AM

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Grow in divine life or be in His presence is different form "man and God become perfectly one". You are not even worthy be in His presence. Many great people in the Bible cant even look at the presence of God. You only achieve this through grace. Paul in humility through his later letters admitted "I Paul the King of Sinners" (instead of "I Paul an apostle of Christ" in earlier arrogant letters). This is because the more Paul look at God the more he feels he is no where close to being perfectly one with God. The more he look at the Holy of Hollies, the more he realise his sins (even after he had mature so much in Christ) and appreciate the grace granted to him.
Novell87
post Aug 4 2011, 11:23 PM

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edited

This post has been edited by Novell87: Aug 20 2011, 02:43 PM
leonardtan2
post Aug 5 2011, 01:11 AM

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Where are you from anyway ? smile.gif I'm sure many people in this forum would love to help you. smile.gif
eXyzt
post Aug 5 2011, 01:12 AM

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QUOTE(Novell87 @ Aug 4 2011, 11:23 PM)
Hope someone can help me out here. I'm not a christian but I do believe in christianity and god. Would love to make my 1st step into christianity but i do not know where to start. Duno which church to attend as I do not have close friends that I can tagged along to church.
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You can just step into any church for their services. Do check out different churches and see which you feel most at home. You can start with churches near your home. Where do you stay?
Novell87
post Aug 5 2011, 01:20 AM

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edited

This post has been edited by Novell87: Aug 20 2011, 02:43 PM
eXyzt
post Aug 5 2011, 01:59 AM

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QUOTE(Novell87 @ Aug 5 2011, 01:20 AM)
Nearby PJ ss2..I don't know what am I suppose to do when I walk In because I'm not a christian. And I guess, everyone who go for the service is a christian. I have never really been to a church service before.
*
DUMC and FGA are down the road at Section 13. Not everyone who goes for service is a christian. Otherwise, where do all the salvations come from? smile.gif

Just come and be yourself.
LovesReborn
post Aug 5 2011, 09:12 AM

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QUOTE(Novell87 @ Aug 5 2011, 01:20 AM)
Nearby PJ ss2..I don't know what am I suppose to do when I walk In because I'm not a christian. And I guess, everyone who go for the service is a christian. I have never really been to a church service before.
*
just go into a church, if you notice there are ushers, just tell them that it's your first time there and is not yet a christian. they will guide you or introduce you to someone. smile.gif if you dont see any ushers, just walk in and have a seat, after the sermon/preaching/sharing/whatever-you-call-it you can approach the speaker and have a talk on things that interest you or questions.
just remember to open your heart. go there with a readiness to accept whatever that comes at you. might be a correction, might be something that you've never thought about, might be something that can impact your life (for better of course laugh.gif ). be ready to receive.
pehkay
post Aug 5 2011, 04:28 PM

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If Adam had not sinned, would God have reached His goal? No! Adam was created by God, but he was not begotten by God. The angels were created by God. Cattle, sheep, trees, and, of course, man were all created by God. If man had not sinned, at the most he would have been the highest creature; he still would not have had God's life. God's goal is to dispense His life into the created man. Unless His life enters into man, His goal is not reached. Hebrews 2 says that God wants to bring many sons into glory. When He leads many sons into glory, God's goal is attained (v. 10). In Genesis 2 Adam did not lose his temper; he did not lie. He and Eve did not argue or fight as husband and wife, but even before they fell, they had need of life. They did not need life only after they fell. Whether or not Adam sinned, he still needed God's life. From the beginning God ordained that man would have His life.
faceless
post Aug 8 2011, 09:26 AM

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QUOTE(Novell87 @ Aug 5 2011, 01:20 AM)
Nearby PJ ss2..I don't know what am I suppose to do when I walk In because I'm not a christian. And I guess, everyone who go for the service is a christian. I have never really been to a church service before.
*

Go to a church. As many have suggested, find one near you. As you enter the church tell them
QUOTE(Novell87 @ Aug 4 2011, 11:23 PM)
Hope someone can help me out here. I'm not a christian but I do believe in christianity and god. Would love to make my 1st step into christianity but i do not know where to start. Duno which church to attend as I do not have close friends that I can tagged along to church.
*

I am sure they will help you right away. Dont think small of this event because when a person want to be a christian it is the greatest miracle.

Tak3shi
post Aug 8 2011, 09:50 AM

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QUOTE(Novell87 @ Aug 5 2011, 01:20 AM)
Nearby PJ ss2..I don't know what am I suppose to do when I walk In because I'm not a christian. And I guess, everyone who go for the service is a christian. I have never really been to a church service before.
*
I have friends in those churches you can join them if you'd like.
Novell87
post Aug 8 2011, 10:29 PM

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edited

This post has been edited by Novell87: Aug 20 2011, 02:44 PM
pehkay
post Aug 9 2011, 05:50 PM

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Something I enjoyed:

The highest profession on earth is to spend time being infused with God that we may shine forth God. This is far greater than doing anything for God.

The highest profession on earth: This quote begins by challenging our personal value system: what profession do we esteem most highly? Doctors or nurses? Professors or teachers? Scholars, scientists, or statesmen? Perhaps a more enlightened Christian might say that “doing the will of God” or “serving God” is the highest profession on earth. However as we’ll consider below, even higher than doing something for God is to spend time “beholding and reflecting like a mirror the glory of the Lord” (2 Cor 3:18).

Spending time: For 40 days, Moses stayed with God on Mount Sinai. For 40 days, he didn’t eat, drink, or sleep — nor did he have any people, matters or things to distract him. For 40 days, Moses was alone with God, and notably God did not tell him to do anything. Instead, God infused Moses with Himself until the face of Moses shone with the light of God. This account impresses us not only for the sheer length of time spent, but also for the carefully designed privacy for Moses to be alone with God (Exo. 34:2-3).

It’s no surprise that as our human lives go on, we find that work, school, family, and even church-related obligations squeeze out other activities from our schedules. Unfortunately, often one of the first things to go is spending face-time alone with the Lord. This may create an inward uneasiness; we may be bothered that how we spend our time does not match what we value. However we are practically challenged to spend regular, intimate, and focused time with the Lord.

Despite a hurried, harried schedule, have you found practical ways to linger with the Lord privately? How are you able to allocate time to this highest profession on earth?

To be infused with God: While our natural instinct as believers is to do something for God, we’re helped to realize that mankind’s first day of existence on earth was God’s seventh day, a day of rest (Gen. 2:2-3). Man’s first activity was not to join in God’s work or labor for Him, but rather to rest with God and to be satisfied with Him.

How can we rest with God and be infused with God? A primary means is through prayer. We’re reminded of this classic passage: “The significance of prayer is to contact God in our spirit and to absorb God Himself. Prayer is the human spirit contacting the Spirit of God, through which man absorbs God. Therefore, the significance of prayer lies…in contacting and absorbing God.”

To shine forth God: The result of Moses receiving God’s infusing was that his face shone with the light of God (Exo. 34:24-35). Similarly, the result of God shining into our hearts through prayer is that we shine forth God’s light on others, and “illuminate the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ” (2 Cor 4:6).

This “beholding and reflecting…the glory of the Lord” (2 Cor. 3:18) is first for us to be infused and enlightened by the Lord, and second to enable others to see God through us. As we contact the Lord and absorb Him, spontaneously God shines through us onto others.
zenox0123
post Aug 9 2011, 06:01 PM

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Looking for a church to join around Puchong area.

Currently attending Agape Assembly at Seremban.
vincabby
post Aug 9 2011, 06:19 PM

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just come by to say hi..Hello!brothers and sisters in Christ!currently in Ipoh and studyign in Johor!attending church of course!haha..
pehkay
post Aug 11 2011, 05:47 PM

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Hello!
laucn
post Aug 15 2011, 03:02 AM

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currently jobless, just quit my job last last week, no passion liao in my profession, open sesame for me, Lord
supervai
post Aug 17 2011, 10:18 AM

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hello i also from dumc....doing ushering....
Flo_2010
post Aug 19 2011, 10:42 PM

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Hello. I'm new here. Some food for thought. smile.gif

‎1 Cross + 3 Nails = 4given

You can be either born once, die twice or born twice, die once. Choose your path wisely.

Goodnight!
mekboyz
post Aug 19 2011, 10:53 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Aug 5 2011, 04:28 PM)
If Adam had not sinned, would God have reached His goal? No! Adam was created by God, but he was not begotten by God. The angels were created by God. Cattle, sheep, trees, and, of course, man were all created by God. If man had not sinned, at the most he would have been the highest creature; he still would not have had God's life. God's goal is to dispense His life into the created man. Unless His life enters into man, His goal is not reached. Hebrews 2 says that God wants to bring many sons into glory. When He leads many sons into glory, God's goal is attained (v. 10). In Genesis 2 Adam did not lose his temper; he did not lie. He and Eve did not argue or fight as husband and wife, but even before they fell, they had need of life. They did not need life only after they fell. Whether or not Adam sinned, he still needed God's life. From the beginning God ordained that man would have His life.
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do you believe that adam was the first human on earth; and that we are his descendants?

This post has been edited by mekboyz: Aug 19 2011, 10:53 PM
vincabby
post Aug 20 2011, 11:35 AM

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on another note...any of u guys from seremban?or goes to a church in seremban?thanks
pehkay
post Aug 20 2011, 01:03 PM

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QUOTE(mekboyz @ Aug 19 2011, 10:53 PM)
do you believe that adam was the first human on earth; and that we are his descendants?
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Hmm ... what it got to do with my post ? biggrin.gif

Anyway, after pre-Adamaic age, yeah, he is the first human created to contain God, express Him and represent Him. Yeah, we are his descendants.

What living creatures created during the pre-Adamic age, dinosaurs, whatever etc were judged during Satan's rebellion ... but then I digress.


fakeshadow
post Sep 6 2011, 06:17 PM

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fakeshadow - protestant | City Harvest Church | hospitality
laucn
post Sep 7 2011, 05:36 PM

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it is my worriest day when i read this:

English text of the sermon
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This post has been edited by laucn: Sep 7 2011, 05:46 PM
laucn
post Sep 7 2011, 05:42 PM

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Chinese Text of the sermon part 1:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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