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Group LYN Buddhism Retreat - SERIOUS TALK, No trolling please

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TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 10 2010, 06:23 PM, updated 10y ago

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11/08/2010 Renamed to LYN Buddhism Retreat thread

18/08/2010 Back in kopitiam. Changed tag to Group.

19/08/2010 Made this a SERIOUS TALK thread.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Too many trolls, I supposed.

There are threads on other religions around - Christianity and Muslim. People don't troll there.

Can we have one Buddhist thread without any trolling as well?


This post has been edited by joe_mamak: Aug 19 2010, 10:47 AM
Hexism
post Aug 10 2010, 06:24 PM

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YESSSSSS !
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post Aug 10 2010, 06:24 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 10 2010, 06:23 PM)
Too many trolls, I supposed. 

There are threads on other religions around - Christianity and Muslim.  People don't troll there. 

Can we have one Buddhist thread without any trolling as well?
*
support +1
CyberSetan
post Aug 10 2010, 06:24 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 10 2010, 06:23 PM)
Too many trolls, I supposed. 

There are threads on other religions around - Christianity and Muslim.  People don't troll there. 

Can we have one Buddhist thread without any trolling as well?
*
KopITiam~ Troll heaven~
Religion2 talk put elsewhere to be safe~ laugh.gif
zstan
post Aug 10 2010, 06:25 PM

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today is a sad day. sad.gif
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 10 2010, 06:25 PM

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QUOTE(CyberSetan @ Aug 10 2010, 06:24 PM)
KopITiam~ Troll heaven~
Religion2 talk put elsewhere to be safe~  laugh.gif
*
But other threads on religion exist in /k/ as well.

Oh, and I think you were trolling.

This post has been edited by joe_mamak: Aug 10 2010, 06:26 PM
yeezai
post Aug 10 2010, 06:25 PM

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yea a buddhist thread... christians and muslims gtfo....
Ahsin1987
post Aug 10 2010, 06:26 PM

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every thread related to chinese/buddhist sure got troll at least 5pages
CyberSetan
post Aug 10 2010, 06:26 PM

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QUOTE(yeezai @ Aug 10 2010, 06:25 PM)
yea a buddhist thread... christians and muslims gtfo....
*
Last time - Christian started the Buddhist thread~ brows.gif
xavi5567
post Aug 10 2010, 06:26 PM

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becos other is from the same source.. buddhism isnt..
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 10 2010, 06:27 PM

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Ironically, Buddhism can be considered a way of life and not a religion. smile.gif

So technically a way of life thread can exist in /k/.
yeezai
post Aug 10 2010, 06:28 PM

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QUOTE(Ahsin1987 @ Aug 10 2010, 06:26 PM)
every thread related to chinese/buddhist sure got troll at least 5pages
*
yea coz buddhism steady ma...not rike other lilijion say his god oso need protest...

QUOTE(CyberSetan @ Aug 10 2010, 06:26 PM)
Last time - Christian started the Buddhist thread~ brows.gif
*
yea but nao ts is pure buddhist ...
edifgrto
post Aug 10 2010, 06:29 PM

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no point have it~

joe~ leave it~~~ the better~
suicideroach
post Aug 10 2010, 06:29 PM

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they say Buddha is one of Allah's prophet.


CyberSetan
post Aug 10 2010, 06:30 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 10 2010, 06:27 PM)
Ironically, Buddhism can be considered a way of life and not a religion.  smile.gif 

So technically a way of life thread can exist in /k/.
*
Then again the Muslims will argue - Islam is also a way of life~ then how?
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 10 2010, 06:30 PM

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QUOTE(edifgrto @ Aug 10 2010, 06:29 PM)
no point have it~

joe~ leave it~~~ the better~
*
Why? Seems like there are quite a number in here who would like to exchange ideas.


TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 10 2010, 06:30 PM

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QUOTE(CyberSetan @ Aug 10 2010, 06:30 PM)
Then again the Muslims will argue - Islam is also a way of life~ then how?
*
But they will also say it is a religion. smile.gif


yeezai
post Aug 10 2010, 06:31 PM

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QUOTE(suicideroach @ Aug 10 2010, 06:29 PM)
they say Buddha is one of Allah's prophet.
*
who existed first ?? whistling.gif ...
CyberSetan
post Aug 10 2010, 06:31 PM

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QUOTE(suicideroach @ Aug 10 2010, 06:29 PM)
they say Buddha is one of Allah's prophet.
*
Nabi Buddha... hmm.. not bad~ Not bad~
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 10 2010, 06:31 PM

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QUOTE(CyberSetan @ Aug 10 2010, 06:30 PM)
Then again the Muslims will argue - Islam is also a way of life~ then how?
*
By the way, what is it to you? Does a thread of Buddhism trouble you in anyway?
edifgrto
post Aug 10 2010, 06:32 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 10 2010, 06:30 PM)
Why?  Seems like there are quite a number in here who would like to exchange ideas.

it'a already everywhere... mexico, italy, africa, so long as got human... they know got this religion... liao... = =

This post has been edited by edifgrto: Aug 10 2010, 06:32 PM
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 10 2010, 06:32 PM

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QUOTE(edifgrto @ Aug 10 2010, 06:32 PM)
it'a already everywhere... mexico, italy, africa, so long as got human... they know got this religion... liao... = =
*
laugh.gif

I don't mean that, silly.
CyberSetan
post Aug 10 2010, 06:32 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 10 2010, 06:31 PM)
By the way, what is it to you?  Does a thread of Buddhism trouble you in anyway?
*
Not in the least~ I'm just bored now~ thats all~ laugh.gif
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 10 2010, 06:33 PM

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QUOTE(CyberSetan @ Aug 10 2010, 06:32 PM)
Not in the least~ I'm just bored now~ thats all~  laugh.gif
*
Well, could you please stop trolling in here, ok?
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 10 2010, 06:35 PM

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yeezai,

Sabar, sabar. No need to go down this route.
CyberSetan
post Aug 10 2010, 06:35 PM

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QUOTE(yeezai @ Aug 10 2010, 06:33 PM)
well to some ppl islam is their lifes...we cannot discuss other religion other then theirs so they butthurt ...they can make fun of ours but we cannot say a thing about allah...
*
You can say all you want about Allah, but some will get butthurt and go Taliban on you~ thats all~ laugh.gif
zstan
post Aug 10 2010, 06:36 PM

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other religions easy butthurt..cannot blame them..its their upbringing...they cannot accept sarcasms and criticisms..
edifgrto
post Aug 10 2010, 06:37 PM

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Joe, nothing to talk mah...

Buddhism theory in Mandarin... then when wanna talk in English... Holy cow!!! the meaning is so deep that I read it with ccnnn also I feel hard to understand. Want me to do sharing in English forum??? walau en... wait later i post many things for sharing without translation. how???
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post Aug 10 2010, 06:37 PM

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QUOTE(CyberSetan @ Aug 10 2010, 06:31 PM)
Nabi Buddha... hmm.. not bad~ Not bad~
*
jangan bang...nanti kena ISA baru tau

Buddhism is a teaching, not a religion. Buddha is a teacher, not a god/saint...

This post has been edited by loki: Aug 10 2010, 06:39 PM
yeezai
post Aug 10 2010, 06:38 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 10 2010, 06:35 PM)
yeezai,

Sabar, sabar.  No need to go down this route.
*
im just saying .... tongue.gif

QUOTE(CyberSetan @ Aug 10 2010, 06:35 PM)
You can say all you want about Allah, but some will get butthurt and go Taliban on you~ thats all~  laugh.gif
*
ask osama come so i can deliver to obama and get my rewards..
SUSryanliew87
post Aug 10 2010, 06:39 PM

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buddha dun create taliban so u can troll kao kao....others later u kena bom bom bommmm`~~
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post Aug 10 2010, 06:39 PM

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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 10 2010, 06:36 PM)
other religions easy butthurt..cannot blame them..its their upbringing...they cannot accept sarcasms and criticisms..
*
yup they will threaten to kill u and all stuff but then this just making everything even worst ..
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 10 2010, 06:39 PM

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QUOTE(edifgrto @ Aug 10 2010, 06:37 PM)
Joe, nothing to talk mah...

Buddhism theory in Mandarin... then when wanna talk in English... Holy cow!!! the meaning is so deep that I read it with ccnnn also I feel hard to understand. Want me to do sharing in English forum??? walau en... wait later i post many things for sharing without translation. how???
*
What you are talking about is a language issue. Buddhist text have been translated to English as well. And the Sutras were translated from Sanskrit.


Josep86
post Aug 10 2010, 06:40 PM

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buddha's hair looks like african hair style.... dude im serious

This post has been edited by Josep86: Aug 10 2010, 06:41 PM
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 10 2010, 06:40 PM

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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 10 2010, 06:36 PM)
other religions easy butthurt..cannot blame them..its their upbringing...they cannot accept sarcasms and criticisms..
*
Weren't you the one who mentioned Buddha also got fire? laugh.gif
jonny4
post Aug 10 2010, 06:42 PM

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Time to close the thread la joe b4 the more terrible comments come. Majority of the trolls still caught in rush hour traffic.
zstan
post Aug 10 2010, 06:42 PM

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QUOTE(edifgrto @ Aug 10 2010, 06:37 PM)
Joe, nothing to talk mah...

Buddhism theory in Mandarin... then when wanna talk in English... Holy cow!!! the meaning is so deep that I read it with ccnnn also I feel hard to understand. Want me to do sharing in English forum??? walau en... wait later i post many things for sharing without translation. how???
*
buddhanet.net 101% english

QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 10 2010, 06:40 PM)
Weren't you the one who mentioned Buddha also got fire?  laugh.gif
*
not me la rclxub.gif
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 10 2010, 06:42 PM

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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 10 2010, 06:42 PM)

not me la  rclxub.gif
*
My mistake. Who was it already?
CyberSetan
post Aug 10 2010, 06:43 PM

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QUOTE(loki @ Aug 10 2010, 06:37 PM)
jangan bang...nanti kena ISA baru tau
*
Oh right.... there's that too... damn....

TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 10 2010, 06:43 PM

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QUOTE(jonny4 @ Aug 10 2010, 06:42 PM)
Time to close the thread la joe b4 the more terrible comments come. Majority of the trolls still caught in rush hour traffic.
*
Well I hope the trolls would stay away from this one. smile.gif

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post Aug 10 2010, 06:44 PM

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post Aug 10 2010, 06:45 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 10 2010, 06:43 PM)
Well I hope the trolls would stay away from this one.  smile.gif
*
dun worry karma mang ....
zstan
post Aug 10 2010, 06:46 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 10 2010, 06:42 PM)
My mistake.  Who was it already?
*
its a waste of my precious brain cells to remember such idiocy tongue.gif
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 10 2010, 06:49 PM

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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 10 2010, 06:46 PM)
its a waste of my precious brain cells to remember such idiocy tongue.gif
*
laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
SUSrandyhow
post Aug 10 2010, 06:49 PM

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what is enlightenment? very few monk reach that state...
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post Aug 10 2010, 06:51 PM

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yeezai
post Aug 10 2010, 06:52 PM

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QUOTE(randyhow @ Aug 10 2010, 06:49 PM)
what is enlightenment? very few monk reach that state...
*
its a state where you understand everything
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post Aug 10 2010, 06:53 PM

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buddha born in nepal, so buddha is india mix with cainis???
yeezai
post Aug 10 2010, 06:54 PM

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QUOTE(Josep86 @ Aug 10 2010, 06:53 PM)
buddha born in nepal, so buddha is india mix with cainis???
*
hes nepalese la
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post Aug 10 2010, 06:55 PM

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QUOTE(yeezai @ Aug 10 2010, 06:54 PM)
hes nepalese la
*
shocking.gif ok +1 for the day
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post Aug 10 2010, 06:56 PM

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QUOTE(Josep86 @ Aug 10 2010, 06:53 PM)
buddha born in nepal, so buddha is india mix with cainis???
*
which buddha are you referring to ? biggrin.gif
zstan
post Aug 10 2010, 06:56 PM

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lolz. is this a new buddhist thread?hahaa
Hexism
post Aug 10 2010, 07:00 PM

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QUOTE(yeezai @ Aug 10 2010, 06:52 PM)
its a state where you understand everything
*
only god knows and understands everything, buddha = god ? ? ?
what meaned
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 10 2010, 07:00 PM

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Well, I started this thread to talk about the deleted thread. And also to sound out (indirectly) if a proper Buddhist thread can be allowed in here. smile.gif
yeezai
post Aug 10 2010, 07:02 PM

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QUOTE(Hexism @ Aug 10 2010, 07:00 PM)
only god knows and understands everything, buddha = god ? ? ?
what meaned
*
jesus = god ??
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 10 2010, 07:03 PM

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QUOTE(Hexism @ Aug 10 2010, 07:00 PM)
only god knows and understands everything, buddha = god ? ? ?
what meaned
*
Could you please hold back on the questions? Thank you. smile.gif
Hexism
post Aug 10 2010, 07:04 PM

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QUOTE(yeezai @ Aug 10 2010, 07:02 PM)
jesus = god ??
*
god created jesus as his son and then god became jesus because jesus is god and god is jesus , also god jesus dies to please god because human sin and jesus sacrificed himself to himself to forgive peoples
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post Aug 10 2010, 07:06 PM

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POYOZER
post Aug 10 2010, 07:07 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 10 2010, 06:27 PM)
Ironically, Buddhism can be considered a way of life and not a religion.  smile.gif 

So technically a way of life thread can exist in /k/.
*
Real Christian say cannot practice two things. Just choose either one.

This post has been edited by POYOZER: Aug 10 2010, 07:11 PM
chezzball
post Aug 10 2010, 07:10 PM

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QUOTE(POYOZER @ Aug 10 2010, 07:07 PM)
Real Christianity say cannot practice two things. Just choose either one.
*
can lahhh.. 1 is religion 1 is way of life..
edifgrto
post Aug 10 2010, 07:11 PM

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QUOTE(Hexism @ Aug 10 2010, 07:00 PM)
only god knows and understands everything, buddha = god ? ? ?
what meaned
*
actually they are still debating heavily does god exist in rwi??? until now still no conclusion yet. As god never show up and said, "hey guys, I'm here~"

wait... I'm not saying god not exist. I do not know if it exist or not?!

So, what I wanna say is... you can not make a equality saying existing = not proved existing.

however, if you saying jesus. Then, i no comment. as I dun make compare in most manner...

chezzball
post Aug 10 2010, 07:12 PM

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what i know is.. KARMA do EXIST !
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post Aug 10 2010, 07:13 PM

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QUOTE(edifgrto @ Aug 10 2010, 07:11 PM)
actually they are still debating heavily does god exist in rwi??? until now still no conclusion yet. As god never show up and said, "hey guys, I'm here~"

wait... I'm not saying god not exist. I do not know if it exist or not?!

So, what I wanna say is... you can not make a equality saying existing = not proved existing.

however, if you saying jesus. Then, i no comment. as I dun make compare in most manner...
*
if you cant disprove the existence of flying spaghetti monster, doesnt mean it exist
POYOZER
post Aug 10 2010, 07:13 PM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Aug 10 2010, 07:10 PM)
can lahhh.. 1 is religion 1 is way of life..
*
Sorry, you can't because the teaching is different. Some are totally opposite. Please consult with the professional.

POYOZER
post Aug 10 2010, 07:14 PM

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QUOTE(yeezai @ Aug 10 2010, 06:33 PM)
well to some ppl islam is their lifes...we cannot discuss other religion other then theirs so they butthurt ...they can make fun of ours but we cannot say a thing about allah...
*
QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 10 2010, 06:36 PM)
other religions easy butthurt..cannot blame them..its their upbringing...they cannot accept sarcasms and criticisms..
*
QUOTE(ryanliew87 @ Aug 10 2010, 06:39 PM)
buddha dun create taliban so u can troll kao kao....others later u kena bom bom bommmm`~~
*
QUOTE(Ahsin1987 @ Aug 10 2010, 06:39 PM)
yup they will threaten to kill u and all stuff but then this just making everything even worst ..
*
QUOTE(yeezai @ Aug 10 2010, 06:28 PM)
yea coz buddhism steady ma...not rike other lilijion say his god oso need protest...
yea but nao ts is pure buddhist ...
*
QUOTE(yeezai @ Aug 10 2010, 06:31 PM)
who existed first ??  whistling.gif  ...
*
I detect trolls.

This post has been edited by POYOZER: Aug 10 2010, 07:16 PM
chezzball
post Aug 10 2010, 07:15 PM

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QUOTE(POYOZER @ Aug 10 2010, 07:13 PM)
Sorry, you can't because the teaching is different. Some are totally opposite. Please consult with the professional.
*
i say can means can. i dowan comment much liao, later the /k/tard condemn me lagi.. zhongzhi my experience, i have used both, and it works.. and.....
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post Aug 10 2010, 07:15 PM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Aug 10 2010, 07:10 PM)
can lahhh.. 1 is religion 1 is way of life..
*
religion has it own way of life , why don't u stick with ur religion way ?
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post Aug 10 2010, 07:16 PM

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POYOZER
post Aug 10 2010, 07:16 PM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Aug 10 2010, 07:15 PM)
i say can means can. i dowan comment much liao, later the /k/tard condemn me lagi.. zhongzhi my experience, i have used both, and it works.. and.....
*
Please quote. In before Religion is a serious business.

This post has been edited by POYOZER: Aug 10 2010, 07:17 PM
SUSKeith321
post Aug 10 2010, 07:18 PM

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QUOTE(POYOZER @ Aug 10 2010, 07:13 PM)
Sorry, you can't because the teaching is different. Some are totally opposite. Please consult with the professional.
*
since jeebus is the biggy here, you could just walk partially of some of the teachings from buddhism and have faith in jeezus + its way.
clueless people do not know how to differentiate between way of life and faith

This post has been edited by Keith321: Aug 10 2010, 07:18 PM
spursfan
post Aug 10 2010, 07:18 PM

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QUOTE(Hexism @ Aug 10 2010, 07:04 PM)
god created jesus as his son and then god became jesus because jesus is god and god is jesus , also god jesus dies to please god because human sin and jesus sacrificed himself to himself to forgive peoples
*

god died to please himself ... omg


QUOTE(POYOZER @ Aug 10 2010, 07:07 PM)
Real Christian say cannot practice two things. Just choose either one.
*

as long as you take the middle path, you're a pretty good 'buddhist' liao ... buddha never asked anyone to submit to him u know ...


QUOTE(Keith321 @ Aug 10 2010, 07:13 PM)
if you cant disprove the existence of flying spaghetti monster, doesnt mean it exist
*

ayam offended liao ... who said the flying spaghetti monster does not exist ... it's just another name for adam's god ...

chezzball
post Aug 10 2010, 07:20 PM

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QUOTE(Ahsin1987 @ Aug 10 2010, 07:15 PM)
religion has it own way of life , why don't u stick with ur religion way ?
*
i can't. i know the flaws in my religion but of course there's more good things with my religion. but after studying buddhism, i realize it's a more perfect system and makes more sense u know.. so i try utilize whatever good in both side without conflicting each other.

QUOTE(POYOZER @ Aug 10 2010, 07:16 PM)
Please quote. In before Religion is a serious business.
*
religion is troll-bait
yeezai
post Aug 10 2010, 07:21 PM

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QUOTE(POYOZER @ Aug 10 2010, 07:14 PM)
I detect trolls.
*
mind you im buddhist all my life...few yrs of my life im taoism ...
Polaris
post Aug 10 2010, 07:21 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 10 2010, 06:23 PM)
Too many trolls, I supposed. 

There are threads on other religions around - Christianity and Muslim.  People don't troll there. 

Can we have one Buddhist thread without any trolling as well?
*
So Buddhism is considered lower class than Christian and Muslim in Msia, that's the message
POYOZER
post Aug 10 2010, 07:23 PM

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QUOTE(spursfan @ Aug 10 2010, 07:18 PM)
as long as you take the middle path, you're a pretty good 'buddhist' liao ... buddha never asked anyone to submit to him u know ...
*
There are no such things such as Karma, Rebirth and Nirvana in Christian.

Source
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post Aug 10 2010, 07:24 PM

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QUOTE(Polaris @ Aug 10 2010, 07:21 PM)
So Buddhism is considered lower class than Christian and Muslim in Msia, that's the message
*
buddhism is not considered a religion because its teachings does not probe ppl to place their faith
in a higher power. it should be of different mountains with christianity and islam, and cannot be compared
yeezai
post Aug 10 2010, 07:24 PM

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QUOTE(Polaris @ Aug 10 2010, 07:21 PM)
So Buddhism is considered lower class than Christian and Muslim in Msia, that's the message
*
ahhh my eyes....can change avatar or not....
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post Aug 10 2010, 07:24 PM

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QUOTE(CyberSetan @ Aug 10 2010, 06:30 PM)
Then again the Muslims will argue - Islam is also a way of life~ then how?
*
Islam means PEACE in arabic... of cause its a way of life!!
edifgrto
post Aug 10 2010, 07:26 PM

Am a cat! ^^
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QUOTE(Keith321 @ Aug 10 2010, 07:13 PM)
if you cant disprove the existence of flying spaghetti monster, doesnt mean it exist

rwi is over there! You come to the wrong person liao rclxub.gif
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post Aug 10 2010, 07:29 PM

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QUOTE(mirzan007 @ Aug 10 2010, 07:24 PM)
Islam means PEACE in arabic... of cause its a way of life!!
*
some would actually argue that their 'religion' is not a religion. It is the TRUTH!

Ahsin1987
post Aug 10 2010, 07:30 PM

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QUOTE(mirzan007 @ Aug 10 2010, 07:24 PM)
Islam means PEACE in arabic... of cause its a way of life!!
*
No , Islam means submission to god
spursfan
post Aug 10 2010, 07:31 PM

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QUOTE(POYOZER @ Aug 10 2010, 07:23 PM)
There are no such things such as Karma, Rebirth and Nirvana in Christian.

Source
*

i thought buddha's basic teaching involves the causes of suffering and freeing yourself from that cycle by following some simple rules ... don't need to care about the other stuff ... no harm in following that right?
beelzebob13
post Aug 10 2010, 07:33 PM

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buddhism is not a belief system...
yeezai
post Aug 10 2010, 07:34 PM

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QUOTE(spursfan @ Aug 10 2010, 07:31 PM)
i thought buddha's basic teaching involves the causes of suffering and freeing yourself from that cycle by following some simple rules ... don't need to care about the other stuff ... no harm in following that right?
*
well its not easy to follow ...
SUSHappyPic
post Aug 10 2010, 07:38 PM

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coz too many extremist in other ligion
spursfan
post Aug 10 2010, 07:39 PM

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QUOTE(yeezai @ Aug 10 2010, 07:34 PM)
well its not easy to follow ...
*

those ppl too much lust ... suffer lo

unknown warrior
post Aug 10 2010, 07:45 PM

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Christianity says It's a way of Life
Islam say It's a way of Life
Buddhism say It's a way of Life

It's funny why copy cat each other.
yeezai
post Aug 10 2010, 07:57 PM

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QUOTE(spursfan @ Aug 10 2010, 07:39 PM)
those ppl too much lust ... suffer lo
*
desire is not all about lust le..craving oso will make you suffer....
spursfan
post Aug 10 2010, 07:58 PM

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QUOTE(yeezai @ Aug 10 2010, 07:57 PM)
desire is not all about lust le..craving oso will make you suffer....
*

um, not more or less the same ah?

spursfan
post Aug 10 2010, 07:59 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Aug 10 2010, 07:45 PM)
Christianity says It's a way of Life
Islam say It's a way of Life
Buddhism say It's a way of Life

It's funny why copy cat each other.
*

buddhism came first, right?

floater_x
post Aug 10 2010, 08:05 PM

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QUOTE(spursfan @ Aug 10 2010, 07:59 PM)
buddhism came first, right?
*
hinduism came first...
POYOZER
post Aug 10 2010, 08:06 PM

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QUOTE(Keith321 @ Aug 10 2010, 07:18 PM)
since jeebus is the biggy here, you could just walk partially of some of the teachings from buddhism and have faith in jeezus + its way.
clueless people do not know how to differentiate between way of life and faith
*
You, as a Christian, you should believe your religion is perfect. Your holy book is a guide and also a way of life. There is no such thing grab here and there then make it hybrid. Have you talk about this with your Christian friends?

Please don’t create false information to mislead other people.

This post has been edited by POYOZER: Aug 10 2010, 08:09 PM
floater_x
post Aug 10 2010, 08:13 PM

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QUOTE(POYOZER @ Aug 10 2010, 08:06 PM)
You, as a Christian, you should believe your religion is perfect.
*
yes, yes, you should also believe everything you read in the papers, see on tv and find on the interwebz.

blind faith is blind
spursfan
post Aug 10 2010, 08:21 PM

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QUOTE(floater_x @ Aug 10 2010, 08:13 PM)
yes, yes, you should also believe everything you read in the papers, see on tv and find on the interwebz.

blind faith is blind
*

yalah ... everyone can carry the same bible, but the interpretation of the contents can be different ... if christianity is so dem perfect, then there's no reason to have so many different sects for it ...

edit: same thing for 'the other abrahamic religion' ...

This post has been edited by spursfan: Aug 10 2010, 08:21 PM
Syaz1
post Aug 10 2010, 08:34 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Aug 10 2010, 07:45 PM)
Christianity says It's a way of Life
Islam say It's a way of Life
Buddhism say It's a way of Life

It's funny why copy cat each other.
*
religion propaganda. similar to 'white's man burden', this is to hard code religion into ur life. religion is religion, a following, a philosophy, period.
SUSitanium
post Aug 10 2010, 08:40 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 10 2010, 06:23 PM)
Too many trolls, I supposed. 

There are threads on other religions around - Christianity and Muslim.  People don't troll there. 

Can we have one Buddhist thread without any trolling as well?
*
I dont have any problem with that...in fact i suppork.
Polaris
post Aug 10 2010, 08:45 PM

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So much hate in Malaysia.

Malaysia is a paragon of hatred.
Josep86
post Aug 10 2010, 09:10 PM

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QUOTE(yeezai @ Aug 10 2010, 06:54 PM)
hes nepalese la
*
ya la, who knows his ancestor is indian or cainis, maybe mix one

QUOTE(beelzebob13 @ Aug 10 2010, 06:56 PM)
which buddha are you referring to ?  biggrin.gif
*
this buddha:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha

his hair looks like african hair style

i think he is chindian/caidien

This post has been edited by Josep86: Aug 10 2010, 09:13 PM
yeezai
post Aug 10 2010, 09:46 PM

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QUOTE(Josep86 @ Aug 10 2010, 09:10 PM)
ya la, who knows his ancestor is indian or cainis, maybe mix one
this buddha:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha

his hair looks like african hair style

i think he is chindian/caidien
*
dat i dun have answer for you...coz i didnt know his ancestor story..
Ahsin1987
post Aug 10 2010, 09:53 PM

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did u guys realized this thread has been remove ?? shocking.gif
chezzball
post Aug 10 2010, 09:55 PM

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aiseh./... .no fair.. why
LYNOfficial Islam Thread
LYN Christian Lounge

these 2 thread can exist in /k/. this buddhist thread must come here sad.gif
SUSKeith321
post Aug 10 2010, 09:56 PM

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QUOTE(POYOZER @ Aug 10 2010, 08:06 PM)
You, as a Christian, you should believe your religion is perfect. Your holy book is a guide and also a way of life. There is no such thing grab here and there then make it hybrid. Have you talk about this with your Christian friends?

Please don’t create false information to mislead other people.
*
its not good to dim every little thing that is not written in the your holy scripture as "evil" or "unorthodox". certain parts of your life share similarities with other religions such as islam, hindu, christianity ..etc. so does that mean you are not faithful etc because of this similarities with other religions? Despite being how engrossed you are, no one is capable of being 100% of what the scripture want you to be
POYOZER
post Aug 10 2010, 11:01 PM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Aug 10 2010, 09:55 PM)
aiseh./... .no fair.. why
LYNOfficial Islam Thread
LYN Christian Lounge

these 2 thread can exist in /k/. this buddhist thread must come here sad.gif
*
Maybe there are several forum members bring the heavy debate up and trolling around. Please refer the previous posts.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



QUOTE(Keith321 @ Aug 10 2010, 09:56 PM)
its not good to dim every little thing that is not written in the your holy scripture as "evil" or "unorthodox". certain parts of your life share similarities with other religions such as islam, hindu, christianity ..etc. so does that mean you are not faithful etc because of this similarities with other religions? Despite being how engrossed you are, no one is capable of being 100% of what the scripture want you to be
*
Mind to share which part is not in the bible? Yes, of course all religions teach the good things. That’s why there are some similarities. The problem now is you are a Christian which only believes in one.

This post has been edited by POYOZER: Aug 10 2010, 11:09 PM
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 10 2010, 11:03 PM

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Wow. This is now in RWI. <Eerie Twilight Zone theme playing>

So, must we post more than one-liners? Not that I can't do that. biggrin.gif
chezzball
post Aug 10 2010, 11:18 PM

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may i know who is the mod that move this thread here? reason? thx
SUSrandyhow
post Aug 10 2010, 11:18 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 10 2010, 11:03 PM)
Wow.  This is now in RWI.  <Eerie Twilight Zone theme playing>

So, must we post more than one-liners?  Not that I can't do that.  biggrin.gif
*
joe... this become a buddhist thread already.. go change ur tittle...
chezzball
post Aug 10 2010, 11:22 PM

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i think the mod move it here so that the troller cannot troll here liao LOL
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 10 2010, 11:24 PM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Aug 10 2010, 11:22 PM)
i think the mod move it here so that the troller cannot troll here liao LOL
*
Wait a while.

Guys, if you want to discuss Christianity and other religion, could you please take it elsewhere?

Thank you. smile.gif
POYOZER
post Aug 10 2010, 11:34 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 10 2010, 11:24 PM)
Wait a while. 

Guys, if you want to discuss Christianity and other religion, could you please take it elsewhere? 

Thank you.  smile.gif
*
Please monitor this thread to make sure it clean from trolls. Maybe you could do like the other two threads such as sharing information among members and Q&A. At the same time it will give good knowledge to non-Buddhists to understand more on Buddhism. Good luck.
Cho_Hakkai
post Aug 10 2010, 11:45 PM

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Is it true that in Theravada Buddhism, women cannot gain enlightenment as only men can gain enlightenment? Compared to Mahayana Buddhism, everyone can gain enlightenment.
SUSrandyhow
post Aug 10 2010, 11:54 PM

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story:

one day a student monk ask a old monk: shi fu, if i saw a beautiful gal drown into the river should i save her?

old monk: of course, every life is precious...

student: but doesn't it makes me break my sexual restriction on Buddha teaching since i'll be holding her to save her?

old monk: ahh... there u go, u already breaking it by thinking about it..
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 11 2010, 12:09 AM

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QUOTE(POYOZER @ Aug 10 2010, 11:34 PM)
Please monitor this thread to make sure it clean from trolls. Maybe you could do like the other two threads such as sharing information among members and Q&A. At the same time it will give good knowledge to non-Buddhists to understand more on Buddhism. Good luck.
*
Thank you for your well wishes. smile.gif
Balaclava
post Aug 11 2010, 12:12 AM

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Nice work Joe, finally it got sent to RWI.
SUSMatrix
post Aug 11 2010, 09:14 AM

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Hey, didn't know got such thread here. Now that it's officially the Buddhism thread. I suggest everyone keeps it clean and stick to topic. Those who wants to talk about other religion and debate please go elsewhere as there is already enough threads for that.

smile.gif


zstan
post Aug 12 2010, 12:27 PM

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QUOTE(Cho_Hakkai @ Aug 10 2010, 11:45 PM)
Is it true that in Theravada Buddhism, women cannot gain enlightenment as only men can gain enlightenment? Compared to Mahayana Buddhism, everyone can gain enlightenment.
*
totally not true. smile.gif everybody as an equal chance, irregardless of race and religion, to attain enlightenment.




soul2soul
post Aug 12 2010, 01:10 PM

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QUOTE(Cho_Hakkai @ Aug 10 2010, 11:45 PM)
Is it true that in Theravada Buddhism, women cannot gain enlightenment as only men can gain enlightenment? Compared to Mahayana Buddhism, everyone can gain enlightenment.
*
NO!!!

In theravada all can attain enlightenment. The Buddha initially refused to ordain females as nuns into the order because of practical purpose.

Those days in India was not like the streets in the modern world today. A woman who walked alone in the forest will be subjected to so many dangers from wild animals and sex perverts, not to mention bandits. And also physical limitation, women have regular menses , and during the old time there wasn't things like "tuala wanita" ..... so the females who are menstruating were really very inconvenient for them to travel.

Those who were ordained had to walk for miles to the town to get alms (food and medicines) on daily basis. Because of this, there was a lot of physical strain on females at that time. However, Ven Ananda asked the Buddha if females can attain enlightenment and are equally capable of pursuing the noble goal. To that the Buddha said "YES".

The Buddha finally agreed to ordain females as nuns, but he made extra rules for the females in order to guard them against dangers, etc.

Buddha's wife attained enlightenment and she became very proficient in psychic powers among the females. There were many notable female arahants at that time!!


That being said, the order of the Nuns in Theravada buddhism became extinct in the 10th century in Sri Lanka after the civil war there. Very unfortunate.

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 12 2010, 02:05 PM
neoengsheng
post Aug 12 2010, 04:03 PM

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How can we differentiate what is traditional Chinese practice, Taoism and Buddhism?

In Malaysia, these 3 are basically the same.

Is worshipping our ancestors part of Buddhism, Chinese traditional practice or Taoism?

Is burning paper money and incese part of Buddhism, Chinese traditional practice or Taoism?

Do hell and heaven exist in Buddhism? And whats the difference from the Taoism version?

Is going vegetarian part of Buddhism, Chinese traditional practice or Taoism?

And a lot of people has the perception that if you want to be a monk, you have to sever all your ties with your parents, friends, relatives as well as your own family, how is this good since you will be causing so much pain to others?

From my experience, I have heard and seen monk, nun that is a kleptomaniac, pervert as well as some so claimed pious Buddhists that is just plain hypocrite that lie, cheat, brag, backstab, greedy and with other behaviour problems. Aren't these people should be controlling themselves?

I am a Buddhist but I consider myself more atheist than Buddhist ever since I started questioning the concept of Karma, Enlightment and Rebirth.
soul2soul
post Aug 12 2010, 04:26 PM

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QUOTE(neoengsheng @ Aug 12 2010, 04:03 PM)

Is worshipping our ancestors part of Buddhism, Chinese traditional practice or Taoism?
Not buddhism

Is burning paper money and incese part of Buddhism, Chinese traditional practice or Taoism?
Not buddhism

Do hell and heaven exist in Buddhism? And whats the difference from the Taoism version?
Yes. I don't know about Taoism. Mind telling us what they believe? I heard got 18 levels of Hell.

buddhism got 31 places (reference in suttas and abhidhamma)


Is going vegetarian part of Buddhism, Chinese traditional practice or Taoism?
Earlier buddhist practice - not vegetarian. Theravada
Later part of buddhism (mahayana) - vegetarian emphasized


And  a lot of people has the perception that if you want to be a monk, you have to sever all your ties with your parents, friends, relatives as well as your own family, how is this good since you will be causing so much pain to others?

They must get permission from their parents to become a monk. It's inside the Vinaya rule. This one the Buddha made the rule after his father complained to him.


From my experience, I have heard and seen monk, nun that is a kleptomaniac, pervert as well as some so claimed pious Buddhists that is just plain hypocrite that lie, cheat, brag, backstab, greedy and with other behaviour problems. Aren't these people should be controlling themselves?

Monks have to abide by the strict vinaya rules. Many people become monks for many reasons - running away from authority is one of them. The right reason is to dedicate one's life to attain the enlightenment.

I am a Buddhist but I consider myself more atheist than Buddhist ever since I started questioning the concept of Karma, Enlightment and Rebirth.
Maybe you can share with us what queries you might have pertaining karma, rebirth?

*
ANswers in red

clawhammer
post Aug 12 2010, 04:27 PM

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QUOTE(neoengsheng @ Aug 12 2010, 04:03 PM)
How can we differentiate what is traditional Chinese practice, Taoism and Buddhism?

In Malaysia, these 3 are basically the same.

Is worshipping our ancestors part of Buddhism, Chinese traditional practice or Taoism?

Is burning paper money and incese part of Buddhism, Chinese traditional practice or Taoism?

Do hell and heaven exist in Buddhism? And whats the difference from the Taoism version?

Is going vegetarian part of Buddhism, Chinese traditional practice or Taoism?

And  a lot of people has the perception that if you want to be a monk, you have to sever all your ties with your parents, friends, relatives as well as your own family, how is this good since you will be causing so much pain to others?

From my experience, I have heard and seen monk, nun that is a kleptomaniac, pervert as well as some so claimed pious Buddhists that is just plain hypocrite that lie, cheat, brag, backstab, greedy and with other behaviour problems. Aren't these people should be controlling themselves?

I am a Buddhist but I consider myself more atheist than Buddhist ever since I started questioning the concept of Karma, Enlightment and Rebirth.
*
1. To be honest it's very easy to differentiate. The only reason why someone cannot differentiate is because the person never really understands Buddhism, what is the religion about, what is it trying to cultivate and teach us, etc. You should start by reading some dharma books smile.gif

2. Do you know what is the 5 Precepts?

3. Certain people might take advantage by using the religion so it's pointless to take these people as example. If you want a good example, please learn from someone that really practices Buddhism
neoengsheng
post Aug 12 2010, 04:56 PM

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QUOTE(clawhammer @ Aug 12 2010, 04:27 PM)
1. To be honest it's very easy to differentiate. The only reason why someone cannot differentiate is because the person never really understands Buddhism, what is the religion about, what is it trying to cultivate and teach us, etc. You should start by reading some dharma books smile.gif

2. Do you know what is the 5 Precepts?

3. Certain people might take advantage by using the religion so it's pointless to take these people as example. If you want a good example, please learn from someone that really practices Buddhism
*
To be honest, you should assume my knowledge of Buddhism to be 0. I only knows what my parents taught me and that too is very minimal and I suspect is a combination of Taoism since I know that Buddhism has no concept of worshipping gods.

This is made worse by the fact that religion and believes is at the bottom of the list of what is important to me in life. Religion(I know, Buddhism is a way of life) too is the least I am concerned about when making decisions since I already have more than enough to worry about. All my life, I am guided only by moral values and my own principles.
lck*G9
post Aug 12 2010, 05:24 PM

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QUOTE(neoengsheng @ Aug 12 2010, 04:56 PM)
To be honest, you should assume my knowledge of Buddhism to be 0. I only knows what my parents taught me and that too is very minimal and I suspect is a combination of Taoism since I know that Buddhism has no concept of worshipping gods.

This is made worse by the fact that religion and believes is at the bottom of the list of what is important to me in life. Religion(I know, Buddhism is a way of life) too is the least I am concerned about when making decisions since I already have more than enough to worry about. All my life, I am guided only by moral values and my own principles.
*
Wow... what can I say. Absolute identical on every little thing.
Back in schooling day, I would pray to make sure I pass my exams so I could spent more time on sports. But what did it got me, barely pass or fail exams.
The day I start forcing myself to the library everyday, I realized I can pass my exams just like that and still can afford to spend some time for sports even during my exam days.
Since then I told myself it's better to be a hardworking person rather than relying on something you don't see.
Set a principal in life. Go towards it. Nothing will be wrong. More importantly, show respect and moral to others and you receive the same in return.
zstan
post Aug 12 2010, 05:44 PM

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QUOTE(neoengsheng @ Aug 12 2010, 04:56 PM)
To be honest, you should assume my knowledge of Buddhism to be 0. I only knows what my parents taught me and that too is very minimal and I suspect is a combination of Taoism since I know that Buddhism has no concept of worshipping gods.

This is made worse by the fact that religion and believes is at the bottom of the list of what is important to me in life. Religion(I know, Buddhism is a way of life) too is the least I am concerned about when making decisions since I already have more than enough to worry about. All my life, I am guided only by moral values and my own principles.
*
if you are really interested,

you can try to read on a bit about the 4 noble truths and 5 precepts. a good way to start. biggrin.gif

people will only think about religion when they are in danger, eg. dying, fallen sick..etc...
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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 12 2010, 05:44 PM)
if you are really interested,

you can try to read on a bit about the 4 noble truths and 5 precepts. a good way to start.  biggrin.gif

people will only think about religion when they are in danger, eg. dying, fallen sick..etc...
*
Maybe it's only me but I feel people shouldn't be selfish all the time or rather don't be selfish to certain degree which is unacceptable.
This point about thinking of religion when in danger is an selfish act and it doesn't seem sincere at all. Just how I feel.
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post Aug 13 2010, 09:35 AM

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QUOTE(suicideroach @ Aug 10 2010, 06:29 PM)
they say Buddha is one of Allah's prophet.
*
Care to elaborate...who is "they"?? laugh.gif Simply tembak tembak to boost ego...i guess these are the 'they' you are talking about.


Added on August 13, 2010, 9:49 am
QUOTE(neoengsheng @ Aug 12 2010, 04:56 PM)
To be honest, you should assume my knowledge of Buddhism to be 0. I only knows what my parents taught me and that too is very minimal and I suspect is a combination of Taoism since I know that Buddhism has no concept of worshipping gods.

This is made worse by the fact that religion and believes is at the bottom of the list of what is important to me in life. Religion(I know, Buddhism is a way of life) too is the least I am concerned about when making decisions since I already have more than enough to worry about. All my life, I am guided only by moral values and my own principles.
*
I think a lot of us from the same scenario. Most Chinese are Confuciousim-Taosim-Buddhism background...so a mish-mash of all, so to speak. Nothing wrong with it really. When it's time for you to understand more, you'll seek out for it. I was pretty much the same background.

This post has been edited by Matrix: Aug 13 2010, 09:49 AM
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post Aug 13 2010, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(Matrix @ Aug 13 2010, 09:35 AM)
Care to elaborate...who is "they"??  laugh.gif Simply tembak tembak to boost ego...i guess these are the 'they' you are talking about.


Added on August 13, 2010, 9:49 am
I think a lot of us from the same scenario. Most Chinese are Confuciousim-Taosim-Buddhism background...so a mish-mash of all, so to speak. Nothing wrong with it really. When it's time for you to understand more, you'll seek out for it. I was pretty much the same background.
*
Yeap. This is one thing I am very grateful to my parents. They don't force any belief on me, and let me find the religions that suit me.
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post Aug 13 2010, 01:49 PM

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Buddha's is one of Allah's prophet..I thought Buddhism came before islam..lol
soul2soul
post Aug 13 2010, 02:33 PM

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QUOTE(Freshie @ Aug 13 2010, 01:49 PM)
Buddha's is one of Allah's prophet..I thought Buddhism came before islam..lol
*
But buddha said no one above him during his enlightenment wor.... he scanned the entire universe for someone to pay respect to, the heavens and until the brahma heavens, he said got no one higher than him in wisdom and in enlightenment. He realized he was the highest, and as suggested by Braha Sahampati, the Buddha paid respect to the Dhamma as all past buddhas did.

smile.gif
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post Aug 13 2010, 03:08 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 12 2010, 01:10 PM)
In theravada all can attain enlightenment. The Buddha initially refused to ordain females as nuns into the order because of practical purpose.
*
It's not exactly related, but as how Ajahn Brham put it - HAHAyana. Honestly, all these different school of thoughts, are they necessary?
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post Aug 13 2010, 03:23 PM

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QUOTE(zc_squash @ Aug 13 2010, 03:08 PM)
It's not exactly related, but as how Ajahn Brham put it - HAHAyana. Honestly, all these different school of thoughts, are they necessary?
*
Because the buddha did not teach Theravada or Mahayana .. there is only one dhamma in the past...

But we are talking about 2500 years of evolution in Buddhism, and difference in opinion is bound to happen over time. It may be subtle, but given sufficient time, it will eventually evolve into 2 different school of thought.
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post Aug 13 2010, 03:58 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 13 2010, 03:23 PM)
Because the buddha did not teach Theravada or Mahayana .. there is only one dhamma in the past...

But we are talking about 2500 years of evolution in Buddhism, and difference in opinion is bound to happen over time. It may be subtle, but given sufficient time, it will eventually evolve into 2 different school of thought.
*
which still uses the 4 noble truths, Eightfold path and the 5 precepts as the main pillar. biggrin.gif
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post Aug 13 2010, 04:05 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 13 2010, 03:23 PM)
Because the buddha did not teach Theravada or Mahayana .. there is only one dhamma in the past...

But we are talking about 2500 years of evolution in Buddhism, and difference in opinion is bound to happen over time. It may be subtle, but given sufficient time, it will eventually evolve into 2 different school of thought.
*
Yeah, and what about Japanese Buddhism....they have fusion traditional Japanese believes (Sino) with Buddhism...i think there are several sects....Nichiren, Zen, Pure Land...etc.



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post Aug 13 2010, 04:06 PM

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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 13 2010, 03:58 PM)
which still uses the 4 noble truths, Eightfold path and the 5 precepts as the main pillar.  biggrin.gif
*
Yes, the Buddha said in order to attain Enlightenment, one has to practice the 8fold path which leads to the realization of the 4 noble truths (cessation of suffering)

so what's the 8-fold path?
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post Aug 13 2010, 04:07 PM

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i'm quite skeptical on reincarnation concept.. there's a paradox...

user posted image

in 1800 the population of the world estimate about 1 billion, after 2000 the ultimate increase of population to 6 billion + and growing...

if we die then reincarnate to somebody else, the rate of population should be stable or flat liner on chart...
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post Aug 13 2010, 04:11 PM

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QUOTE(Matrix @ Aug 13 2010, 04:05 PM)
Yeah, and what about Japanese Buddhism....they have fusion traditional Japanese believes (Sino) with Buddhism...i think there are several sects....Nichiren, Zen, Pure Land...etc.
*
That's why over such a long time, buddhism fractures, starting from 500 years after buddha passed away. There is a group who refused to change, and you call them the orthodox, and another group with newer idea and trying to make buddhism more appealing to the mass, the reformer.

It's the same in Christianity too, we can see how protestants movement has evolved so much in the last 300 years that the interpretation of the teaching can be done by anyone who holds the Bible. There is no unity in the prostestant churches , and you find the newer churches even performed gay marriages , which is something now allowed in the Catholic church.

THere is so much difference between shinto and tibetan.. they are very different. Are they still buddhism practiced 2500 years ago at the buddha's time? this you all have to do some homework and self reflection.


Added on August 13, 2010, 4:13 pm
QUOTE(randyhow @ Aug 13 2010, 04:07 PM)
i'm quite skeptical on reincarnation concept.. there's a paradox...

user posted image

in 1800 the population of the world estimate about 1 billion, after 2000 the ultimate increase of population to 6 billion + and growing...

if we die then reincarnate to somebody else, the rate of population should be stable or flat liner on chart...
*
if you say reincarnate to soemthing else is possible, then you should logically also include that somethign else can also reincarnate back to the human world, no?


This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 13 2010, 04:13 PM
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post Aug 13 2010, 04:15 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 13 2010, 04:11 PM)
if you say reincarnate to soemthing else is possible, then you should logically also include that somethign else can also reincarnate back to the human world, no?
*
probably explain the dwindling of animal population


Added on August 13, 2010, 4:16 pm
QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 13 2010, 02:33 PM)
But buddha said no one above him during his enlightenment wor.... he scanned the entire universe for someone to pay respect to, the heavens and until the brahma heavens, he said got no one higher than him in wisdom and in enlightenment. He realized he was the highest, and as suggested by Braha Sahampati, the Buddha paid respect to the Dhamma as all past buddhas did.

smile.gif
*
this is supernatural stuff liao...wouldn't it defeat the purpose of Buddhism which said that Buddhism is teaching
and no supernatural involved?

This post has been edited by gogo2: Aug 13 2010, 04:16 PM
soul2soul
post Aug 13 2010, 04:17 PM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 13 2010, 04:15 PM)
probably explain the dwindling of animal population
*
well the buddha said we are not the only place in this world system that has humans... there are other 3 places, with much longer lifespan than the humans on Earth. (within this world system).

Plus, there are 30 more worlds a being can land to, from the heavily populated Avici hell to the least populated highest realm of neither perception nor non-perception.
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post Aug 13 2010, 04:18 PM

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QUOTE(randyhow @ Aug 13 2010, 04:07 PM)
i'm quite skeptical on reincarnation concept.. there's a paradox...

user posted image

in 1800 the population of the world estimate about 1 billion, after 2000 the ultimate increase of population to 6 billion + and growing...

if we die then reincarnate to somebody else, the rate of population should be stable or flat liner on chart...
*
Haha...i was having the same question previously, when my understanding of Buddhism was very vague (i am hardly an expert now, but just know a little bit more).

1) In Buddhism, the concept is RE-BIRTH, not RE-INCARNATION. Re-incarnation is in Hinduism. A re-birth is not the same because in Buddhism, there is no soul. It's like you drop a drop of water into the stream, the stream flows to the end. Another drop of water emerge from the stream, this drop of water that emerge again is not exactly the same as the drop of water that enters the stream.

2) Re-birth doesn't always gets you back into the human world. There are many planes of existence in Buddhism. You can go to higher plane or go to lower plane. It can be the same physical plane as us...rebirth into an animal world, or worst....other planes of existence which we do not see. (There are also higher plane of existence we do not see...).

Also, Buddhism acknowledge other worlds of existence...you might not be even rebirth to this planet.

So you see, the chart of only human beings on this planet in this plane of existence is not a correct way to gauge rebirth.

This post has been edited by Matrix: Aug 13 2010, 04:20 PM
SUSrandyhow
post Aug 13 2010, 04:21 PM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 13 2010, 04:15 PM)
probably explain the dwindling of animal population
*
if add in animal factor, there's farming industri that breeds food (cow, chicken, rabbit, crocs... etc,etc) with is million more produce per square inch compare to animals that perishing in nature ... so it should be more too.... not less....

This post has been edited by randyhow: Aug 13 2010, 04:23 PM
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post Aug 13 2010, 04:23 PM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 13 2010, 04:15 PM)
this is supernatural stuff liao...wouldn't it defeat the purpose of Buddhism which said that Buddhism is teaching
and no supernatural involved?
*
Well it all depends on how deep you want to study buddhism and your aim in life.

If you are only looking for just a way to live happily , then you can live by just the day-to-day practical advice by the buddha like avoid evil, do good, etc.

But if you are looking serious to find out, whether there is such thing as Sotapatti Magga (special event in the stream of the mind that changes a being forever), or whether there is really such thing as the Unconditioned State, then you have to look deeper into the teachings, which contain some 'supernatural' stuffs.

But then, we cannot totally discount these claims. After all, landing on the moon will seem be to supernatural 100 years ago, until actually someone did land on the moon , it became a naturally accepted thing.


Added on August 13, 2010, 4:26 pm
QUOTE(Matrix @ Aug 13 2010, 04:18 PM)


2) Re-birth doesn't always gets you back into the human world. There are many planes of existence in Buddhism. You can go to higher plane or go to lower plane. It can be the same physical plane as us...rebirth into an animal world, or worst....other planes of existence which we do not see. (There are also higher plane of existence we do not see...).

Also, Buddhism acknowledge other worlds of existence...you might not be even rebirth to this planet.

So you see, the chart of only human beings on this planet in this plane of existence is not a correct way to gauge rebirth.
*
I was told rebirth as a human is very very difficult and rare event. Count your luck guys to be able to become humans to enjoy Lady Gaga and sex... there are places worse than these where you dont get these stuffs....

work for your own security!

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 13 2010, 04:26 PM
SUSrandyhow
post Aug 13 2010, 04:31 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 13 2010, 04:17 PM)
well the buddha said we are not the only place in this world system that has humans... there are other 3 places, with much longer lifespan than the humans on Earth. (within this world system).

Plus, there are 30 more worlds a being can land to, from the heavily populated Avici hell to the least populated highest realm of neither perception nor non-perception.
*
QUOTE(Matrix @ Aug 13 2010, 04:18 PM)
Haha...i was having the same question previously, when my understanding of Buddhism was very vague (i am hardly an expert now, but just know a little bit more).

1)  In Buddhism, the concept is RE-BIRTH, not RE-INCARNATION. Re-incarnation is in Hinduism. A re-birth is not the same because in Buddhism, there is no soul. It's like you drop a drop of water into the stream, the stream flows to the end. Another drop of water emerge from the stream, this drop of water that emerge again is not exactly the same as the drop of water that enters the stream.

2) Re-birth doesn't always gets you back into the human world. There are many planes of existence in Buddhism. You can go to higher plane or go to lower plane. It can be the same physical plane as us...rebirth into an animal world, or worst....other planes of existence which we do not see. (There are also higher plane of existence we do not see...).

Also, Buddhism acknowledge other worlds of existence...you might not be even rebirth to this planet.

So you see, the chart of only human beings on this planet in this plane of existence is not a correct way to gauge rebirth.
*
lulz...
this 1 Parallel universe liao... Quantum Theory tear my mind.. Buddha so keng, know Quantum Theory long time ago..
soul2soul
post Aug 13 2010, 04:34 PM

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QUOTE(randyhow @ Aug 13 2010, 04:31 PM)
lulz...
this 1 Parallel universe liao... Quantum Theory tear my mind.. Buddha so keng, know Quantum Theory long time ago..
*
Tell you more keng one.

he said our mind is subdivided into quantum units of 17 moments......

The matter is in a state of flux, and at no moment they are the same. and by the time 1 unit of matter expired, 17 units of mind expires.

hu hu.

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 13 2010, 04:36 PM
billytong
post Aug 13 2010, 04:38 PM

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I am curious, how many of you guys here actually practice to be "true" Buddhism and be vegetarian.
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post Aug 13 2010, 04:38 PM

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QUOTE(randyhow @ Aug 13 2010, 04:31 PM)
lulz...
this 1 Parallel universe liao... Quantum Theory tear my mind.. Buddha so keng, know Quantum Theory long time ago..
*
Not parallel universe lar. Only multiple realms of existence. Other religions also have wat...but only less...etc Heaven, Hell and Earth.
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post Aug 13 2010, 04:40 PM

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QUOTE(billytong @ Aug 13 2010, 04:38 PM)
I am curious, how many of you guys here actually practice to be "true" Buddhism and be vegetarian.
*
siapa beritahu you true buddhism itew kena vegetable?
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post Aug 13 2010, 04:40 PM

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QUOTE(billytong @ Aug 13 2010, 04:38 PM)
I am curious, how many of you guys here actually practice to be "true" Buddhism and be vegetarian.
*
You are wrong. Being a Buddhist doesn't means u have to be vegetarian!!! doh.gif

Only Mahayana encourages vegetarian, Theravadian monks can eat anything. Regardless, Buddhism taught u must not kill. Not must eat vege!!! doh.gif


Added on August 13, 2010, 4:42 pm
QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 13 2010, 04:34 PM)
Tell you more keng one.

he said our mind is subdivided into quantum units of 17 moments......

The matter is in a state of flux, and at no moment they are the same. and by the time 1 unit of matter expired, 17 units of mind expires.

hu hu.
*
This i dunno....can tell me which book talks on this?? Share-share...smile.gif

This post has been edited by Matrix: Aug 13 2010, 04:42 PM
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post Aug 13 2010, 04:43 PM

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QUOTE(Matrix @ Aug 13 2010, 04:40 PM)
You are wrong. Being a Buddhist doesn't means u have to be vegetarian!!! doh.gif

Only Mahayana encourages vegetarian, Theravadian monks can eat anything. Regardless, Buddhism taught u must not kill. Not must eat vege!!! doh.gif


Added on August 13, 2010, 4:42 pm
This i dunno....can tell me which book talks on this?? Share-share...smile.gif
*
yo brother, you sound like a hahayana. Cool laugh.gif


Added on August 13, 2010, 4:44 pm
QUOTE(Matrix @ Aug 13 2010, 04:40 PM)
This i dunno....can tell me which book talks on this?? Share-share...smile.gif
*
It's in the abhidhamma. Come across any of them?

Not compulsory to know but most of the monks in Burma have to learn it.

Tipitaka contains
1. Sutta
2. Vinaya
3. Abdihdamma

Sutta - compilation of discourses the buddha made to kings, queens, lay person, monks, robbers, bandits, murderers, soldiers, etc. Using conventional language of "I", "YOU" , "HIM", etc

2. Vinaya - rules for the monks

3. Abdhidhamma - ultimate teachings of the Buddha, taught only to the highly advanced superhumans (aka Devas ), but was conveyed to Ven Sariputta in summary. No "I" or "he" used. Breaks the mind into full analysis of moments, its arising, its passing away, how the mind and body are related, their ways of arising, cessation, etc. It's solely about the mind-body relation

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 13 2010, 04:49 PM
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post Aug 13 2010, 04:48 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 13 2010, 04:43 PM)
yo brother, you sound like a hahayana. Cool laugh.gif
*
Forgive my ignorance...but what is a hahayana?? Or do u mean Mahayana?? tongue.gif

Actually, i consider myself Teravadian...smile.gif
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post Aug 13 2010, 04:51 PM

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QUOTE(Matrix @ Aug 13 2010, 04:48 PM)
Forgive my ignorance...but what is a hahayana?? Or do u mean Mahayana?? tongue.gif

Actually, i  consider myself Teravadian...smile.gif
*
Hahayana was the joke used by Ven Ajahn Brahm to describe Buddha's teaching as only ONE type , no theravada or mahayana . Anyway, he was from theravada forest tradition.

THere isn't much difference from the Burmese monks. Basically they are from the same root .. theravada.
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post Aug 13 2010, 05:04 PM

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QUOTE(Matrix @ Aug 13 2010, 04:40 PM)
You are wrong. Being a Buddhist doesn't means u have to be vegetarian!!! doh.gif

Only Mahayana encourages vegetarian, Theravadian monks can eat anything. Regardless, Buddhism taught u must not kill. Not must eat vege!!! doh.gif


Added on August 13, 2010, 4:42 pm
This i dunno....can tell me which book talks on this?? Share-share...smile.gif
*

This is why I put on the quotation note "true" doh.gif It mean how many of you guys actually follow that path. Cant believe u guys didnt get the meaning doh.gif
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post Aug 13 2010, 05:16 PM

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QUOTE(billytong @ Aug 13 2010, 05:04 PM)
This is why I put on the quotation note "true"  doh.gif It mean how many of you guys actually follow that path. Cant believe u guys didnt get the meaning doh.gif
*
for me vegetarian is only good for detox ur body for few days, being a habit would malnourish urself eg. vitamin k, certain asid amino... never for religion purpose...
SUSMatrix
post Aug 13 2010, 05:19 PM

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QUOTE(randyhow @ Aug 13 2010, 05:16 PM)
for me vegetarian is only good for detox ur body for few days, being a habit would malnourish urself eg. vitamin k, certain asid amino... never for religion purpose...
*
Smart move. But it's a good idea to eat more vege than meat. In the end, the Buddha teaching comes into play...everything must balance...pull the string too soft, no sound. Pull too hard it'll break. smile.gif

So eat a Balanced Diet!!! thumbup.gif
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post Aug 13 2010, 05:23 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 13 2010, 04:34 PM)
Tell you more keng one.

he said our mind is subdivided into quantum units of 17 moments......

The matter is in a state of flux, and at no moment they are the same. and by the time 1 unit of matter expired, 17 units of mind expires.

hu hu.
*
rclxub.gif rclxub.gif rclxub.gif rclxub.gif mind to explain in a simpler english? or any link where i can read about it? notworthy.gif

QUOTE(billytong @ Aug 13 2010, 05:04 PM)
This is why I put on the quotation note "true"  doh.gif It mean how many of you guys actually follow that path. Cant believe u guys didnt get the meaning doh.gif
*
no, i practice buddhism and i am not a vegetarian. is this the answer that you want?
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post Aug 13 2010, 05:23 PM

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Talk about vegetarian..
could any vegetarian tell me which is below consider vege:
milk
egg
sea cucumber
yeast
soya sos
Preserved Bean Curd

This post has been edited by randyhow: Aug 13 2010, 05:30 PM
SUSMatrix
post Aug 13 2010, 05:25 PM

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QUOTE(randyhow @ Aug 13 2010, 05:23 PM)
Talk about vegetarian..
could any vegetarian tell me which is below consider vege:
milk
egg
sea cucumber
yeast
soya sos
*
I'm no vegetarian, but from my understanding, sea cucumber is not vege..it's some kinda sea slug. Egg is debatable...not sure. But soya sauce?? i thought it's bean only??
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post Aug 13 2010, 05:26 PM

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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 13 2010, 05:23 PM)
no, i practice buddhism and i am not a vegetarian.  is this the answer that you want?
*

yes it is just that simple, how hard is that? biggrin.gif

I am a vegetarian btw. laugh.gif Not from religious purpose tho. but I do know there are high number of Buddhism locally practice this. Thats why I asked here.

This post has been edited by billytong: Aug 13 2010, 05:27 PM
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post Aug 13 2010, 05:32 PM

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QUOTE(Matrix @ Aug 13 2010, 05:25 PM)
I'm no vegetarian, but from my understanding, sea cucumber is not vege..it's some kinda sea slug. Egg is debatable...not sure. But soya sauce?? i thought it's bean only??
*
soya sos u need to fermented it for a period of time, so it is using bacteria to do the job , rite?
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post Aug 13 2010, 05:34 PM

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QUOTE(randyhow @ Aug 13 2010, 05:32 PM)
soya sos u need to fermented it for a period of time, so it is using bacteria to do the job , rite?
*
Like that susah to kira man...bacteria is everywhere...open your mouth also eat some bacteria liao...rclxub.gif

That's why, i follow Theravadian...eat anything you want...LOL.
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post Aug 13 2010, 05:35 PM

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QUOTE(randyhow @ Aug 13 2010, 05:23 PM)
Talk about vegetarian..
could any vegetarian tell me which is below consider vege:
milk
egg
sea cucumber (it's a slug species)
yeast
soya sos
Preserved Bean Curd
*
QUOTE(billytong @ Aug 13 2010, 05:26 PM)
yes it is just that simple, how hard is that?  biggrin.gif

I am a vegetarian btw.  laugh.gif Not from religious purpose tho. but I do know there are high number of Buddhism locally practice this. Thats why I asked here.
*
care to give some idea?
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post Aug 13 2010, 05:38 PM

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QUOTE(billytong @ Aug 13 2010, 05:26 PM)
yes it is just that simple, how hard is that?  biggrin.gif

I am a vegetarian btw.  laugh.gif Not from religious purpose tho. but I do know there are high number of Buddhism locally practice this. Thats why I asked here.
*
You must understand what is your "local" Buddhism is. A lot of Chinese temples praticising Buddhism are Mahayana. You can visit some Theravadian temples, where the monks eat anything that is offered to them, including meat. No worries. smile.gif



This post has been edited by Matrix: Aug 13 2010, 05:40 PM
soul2soul
post Aug 13 2010, 06:08 PM

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QUOTE(Matrix @ Aug 13 2010, 05:38 PM)
You must understand what is your "local" Buddhism is. A lot of Chinese temples praticising Buddhism are Mahayana. You can visit some Theravadian temples, where the monks eat anything that is offered to them, including meat. No worries. smile.gif
*
Buddha was not a vegetarian. He consumed meat that was offered to him. His last meal was pork prepared by his devoted supporter Cunda. His cousin, Devadatta tried to persuade the Buddha to impose the vegetarianism rule on the Sangha, which the buddha refused. We all know the fate of devadatta......who tried to murder the buddha and usurp the sangha.


Added on August 13, 2010, 6:09 pm
QUOTE(billytong @ Aug 13 2010, 05:26 PM)
yes it is just that simple, how hard is that?  biggrin.gif

I am a vegetarian btw.  laugh.gif Not from religious purpose tho. but I do know there are high number of Buddhism locally practice this. Thats why I asked here.
*
If you read the Tipitaka, the Rules of the monastery (Vinaya) does not forbid meat to be consumed, although there are certain conditions for meat to be consumed and certain meat that is forbidden.

It's a point of contention between mahayana and theravada pertaining to vegetarianism.


Added on August 13, 2010, 6:18 pm
QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 13 2010, 05:23 PM)
rclxub.gif  rclxub.gif  rclxub.gif  rclxub.gif  mind to explain in a simpler english? or any link where i can read about it? notworthy.gif
no, i practice buddhism and i am not a vegetarian.  is this the answer that you want?
*
zstan, you haven't answered my question on 8 fold path. biggrin.gif what is the 8 fold path?

If you want to read about the relation of Mind-Body, you need to study Ahbidhamma. Not so difficult to understand la. Can read up about abhidhamma lessons on the net.

Anyway, the abidhamma says in ultimate reality, this universe only consists of:

1. citta (consciousness)
2. cetasikas (mental factors that arise together with citta)
3. rupa (form)
4. Nibbana (unconditioned state)

1+2 = the MIND
3: BODY

"YOU" and "me" don't exist ultimately, but only Mind-Matter combo. 1-3 are conditioned, means they need other things for them to exist and cannot exist independently. And they are not permanent. For every second, a new mind-matter combo is born, with destruction of the previous mind-matter. That is to say, at every moment, a new 'YOU" is born and destroyed.

From science we know Matter is in a state of flux too (string theory?) and they are not permanent. The buddha said our mind is even faster than the change in matter. For every 1 quantum (smallest unit) of matter that change, 17 units of the mind changes.

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 13 2010, 06:18 PM
zstan
post Aug 13 2010, 06:45 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 13 2010, 06:08 PM)
zstan, you haven't answered my question on 8 fold path.  biggrin.gif  what is the 8 fold path?

If you want to read about the relation of Mind-Body, you need to study Ahbidhamma. Not so difficult to understand la. Can read up about abhidhamma lessons on the net.

Anyway, the abidhamma says in ultimate reality, this universe only consists of:

1. citta (consciousness)
2. cetasikas (mental factors that arise together with citta)
3. rupa (form)
4. Nibbana (unconditioned state)

1+2 = the MIND
3: BODY

"YOU" and "me" don't exist ultimately, but only Mind-Matter combo.  1-3 are conditioned, means they need other things for them to exist and cannot exist independently. And they are not permanent. For every second, a new mind-matter combo is born, with destruction of the previous mind-matter. That is to say, at every moment, a new 'YOU" is born and destroyed.

From science we know Matter is in a state of flux too (string theory?) and they are not permanent. The buddha said our mind is even faster than the change in matter. For every 1 quantum (smallest unit) of matter that change, 17 units of the mind changes.
*
Right Concentration,Right Understanding, Right Thoughts,Right Speech, Right Actions,Right Livelihood,Right Effort,Right Mindfulness? if memory serves me well. rclxub.gif

oh.i kinda get it.. biggrin.gif most of my buddhist education was in chinese..so still struggling with english terms unsure.gif
soul2soul
post Aug 13 2010, 07:03 PM

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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 13 2010, 06:45 PM)
Right Concentration,Right Understanding, Right Thoughts,Right Speech, Right Actions,Right Livelihood,Right Effort,Right Mindfulness? if memory serves me well. rclxub.gif

oh.i kinda get it..  biggrin.gif  most of my buddhist education was in chinese..so still struggling with english terms  unsure.gif
*
correct. So you must understand what each of them means.

What is right concentration?
What is right mindfulness?


If we don't know what they mean, can we say we are walking on the 8 fold path?

8 fold path leads to Nibbana and cessation of suffering. To get to heaven, or happy human state , you don't need this 8 fold path. You can follow any other path or teaching. But to get to this state , you NEED to walk on the 8 fold path.
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post Aug 14 2010, 06:59 AM

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QUOTE(randyhow @ Aug 13 2010, 04:21 PM)
if add in animal factor, there's farming industri that breeds food (cow, chicken, rabbit, crocs... etc,etc) with is million more produce per square inch compare to animals that perishing in nature ... so it should be more too.... not less....
*
but we destroy environment. Environment consist of not only food... it also have micro-organism. Imagine hectar of green.
How many animal and micro-organism in it...

QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 13 2010, 04:23 PM)
Well it all depends on how deep you want to study buddhism and your aim in life.

If you are only looking for just a way to live happily , then you can live by just the day-to-day practical advice by the buddha like avoid evil, do good, etc.

But if you are looking serious to find out, whether there is such thing as Sotapatti Magga (special event in the stream of the mind that changes a being forever), or whether there is really such thing as the Unconditioned State, then you have to look deeper into the teachings, which contain some 'supernatural' stuffs.

But then, we cannot totally discount these claims. After all, landing on the moon will seem be to supernatural 100 years ago, until actually someone did land on the moon , it became a naturally accepted thing.
*
At first, I feel Buddhism is the most logical religion of all. Mana tahu I go deep to study buddhism and it has all sorts
of supernatural things that I found illogical. After that, I just left BUddhism and go into Atheism.

QUOTE(billytong @ Aug 13 2010, 04:38 PM)
I am curious, how many of you guys here actually practice to be "true" Buddhism and be vegetarian.
*
TRUE buddhism is begging for food. Vegetarian is not true Buddhism.
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post Aug 14 2010, 09:00 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 14 2010, 06:59 AM)
At first, I feel Buddhism is the most logical religion of all. Mana tahu I go deep to study buddhism and it has all sorts
of supernatural things that I found illogical. After that, I just left BUddhism and go into Atheism.
and may you find happiness in Atheism.
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post Aug 14 2010, 10:16 AM

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Just a note. There is no such thing as "joining buddhism". It is not a club membership where one may join and leaves. Thats as stupid as learning maths and say that you're joining mathematics, and when u suck horribly at it...u want to leave mathematics. What u learned stay with you, having learned that 1 + 1 = 2, no matter what you label yourself, 1 + 1 will always = 2. That is good enough. Unless you're stupid to think that by "leaving" mathematics 1+1 stops being 2.

Added on August 14, 2010, 10:19 am
QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 14 2010, 06:59 AM)
TRUE buddhism is begging for food. Vegetarian is not true Buddhism.
*

there is no such thing as true buddhism.

This post has been edited by teongpeng: Aug 14 2010, 10:23 AM
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post Aug 14 2010, 12:15 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 14 2010, 09:00 AM)
and may you find happiness in Atheism.
*
do you agree? somehow saying buddhism is
teaching is misleading

QUOTE(teongpeng @ Aug 14 2010, 10:16 AM)
there is no such thing as true buddhism.
*
yes there is...in my context...



soul2soul
post Aug 14 2010, 12:27 PM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 14 2010, 12:15 PM)
do you agree? somehow saying buddhism is
teaching is misleading
Do you mean to say you wish the Buddha hadn't taught those things that he did?

If that is the case, what's the difference between the great philosopher the likes of Voltaire , Socrates and Plato?

I , of course, don't agree with you. smile.gif . Yes, some of the stuffs sound very supernatural . For example - past life. Maybe I will ask you in return, just how certain are you that there is nothing like Past, and future? The best you could tell, it's a 'maybe', but if you tell me that you know for certain 100% , then you are not being honest like some hardcore egoistic atheist I meet so often.
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post Aug 14 2010, 12:46 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 14 2010, 09:00 AM)
and may you find happiness in Atheism.
*
God in Buddhism is insignificant or none at all, shouldn't it be consider Atheism?


Added on August 14, 2010, 1:06 pm
QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 14 2010, 06:59 AM)
but we destroy environment. Environment consist of not only food... it also have micro-organism. Imagine hectar of green.
How many animal and micro-organism in it...
*
micro-organism in the forest is much less than those factories (yogurt, beer, wine, sewage treatment ... etc etc) in terms of production rate per cubic inch (nature rate is fix, man produced is still growing)...

This post has been edited by randyhow: Aug 14 2010, 01:06 PM
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post Aug 14 2010, 04:10 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 14 2010, 12:27 PM)
Do you mean to say you wish the Buddha hadn't taught those things that he did?

If that is the case, what's the difference between the great philosopher the likes of Voltaire , Socrates and Plato?

I , of course, don't agree with you.  smile.gif . Yes, some of the stuffs sound very supernatural . For example - past life. Maybe I will ask you in return, just how certain are you that there is nothing like Past, and future?  The best you could tell, it's a 'maybe', but if you tell me that you know for certain 100% , then you are not being honest like some hardcore egoistic atheist I meet so often.
*
i mean, Buddhist shouldn't say their teaching is just philosophy because it ain't. For full Buddhism, you need
to suspend belief.

How I certain? The thing is, as atheist, I don't need to certain about this. Because it never was. And never will.
If supernatural exist, which supernatural is correct? If Buddhism is correct, Christianity is wrong. And vice versa.
All this cannot be proven.

This just make Buddhism failed as much as Christianity in logical and philosophical department.

QUOTE(randyhow @ Aug 14 2010, 12:46 PM)
God in Buddhism is insignificant or none at all, shouldn't it be consider Atheism?


Added on August 14, 2010, 1:06 pm

micro-organism in the forest is much less than those factories (yogurt, beer, wine, sewage treatment ... etc etc)  in terms of production rate per cubic inch (nature rate is fix, man produced is still growing)...
*
You're right. When the notion if rebirth is created, they don't have statistic that human population increased. Another proof
that Buddhism is just another religion created by human to understand their nature and environment.
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post Aug 14 2010, 05:29 PM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 14 2010, 04:10 PM)
i mean, Buddhist shouldn't say their teaching is just philosophy because it ain't. For full Buddhism, you need
to suspend belief.

How I certain? The thing is, as atheist, I don't need to certain about this. Because it never was. And never will.
If supernatural exist, which supernatural is correct? If Buddhism is correct, Christianity is wrong. And vice versa.
All this cannot be proven.

This just make Buddhism failed as much as Christianity in logical and philosophical department.
You're right. When the notion if rebirth is created, they don't have statistic that human population increased. Another proof
that Buddhism is just another religion created by human to understand their nature and environment.
*
To your last part, rebirth (in Buddhist terminology) doesn't mean an increase in headcount.
But rather, the same soul coming back to learn something on Earth, and takes the form of a human being.
The body is just a meat bag, and can range from white to black. Geography and culture will define the learning experience.
But one thing in common that all from white to black share: ability to love, ability to share with each other, ability to feel joy, sadness, etc.
Therefore it's also said that when one achieves enlightenment, one is not reborn into the physical world anymore.

Okay, before starting an argument out of this, this is just what I know based on the terminology of rebirth. I don't really intend to comprehend why humans can be reborn as animals etc, or any other in depth studies, because that's out of my league, and will not benefit me in any way. That however, can serve as a good tool to people who are "lost", e.g. rapists, murderers etc that are seeking a form of redemption after having realized the implications of their own acts, it can serve as a starting point for them to learn.

I don't call myself a Buddhist by the way. I just call myself a Buddhist when there is a need to fit in, such as social groups that preach so heavily on it, or in registration forms to facilitate ease of registration and conform to social ideologies. I actually learn a lot from Hinduism too, because I've frequently been exposed to it. Haven't really been exposed to Islam and Christianity, but I really don't mind learning too, if it is suitable or easily comprehensible.

This post has been edited by entryman: Aug 14 2010, 05:40 PM
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 14 2010, 05:53 PM

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QUOTE(randyhow @ Aug 13 2010, 05:23 PM)
Talk about vegetarian..
could any vegetarian tell me which is below consider vege:
milk
egg
sea cucumber
yeast
soya sos
Preserved Bean Curd
*
Milk, soya sauce, preserved bean curd are ok for vegetarians.

Eggs are a bit of a gray area. The eggs we get in the market can't be hatched into chickens. So some vegetarians consider it ok to eat them. Some don't.

Sea cucumber is a marine animal. So no.


Added on August 14, 2010, 5:56 pm
QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 13 2010, 04:15 PM)
probably explain the dwindling of animal population


*
Sure. There are many worlds and realms. There might be a decline in animal population in this realm but there might be an increase in another realm.

This post has been edited by joe_mamak: Aug 14 2010, 05:56 PM
SUSrandyhow
post Aug 14 2010, 08:53 PM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 14 2010, 04:10 PM)
i mean, Buddhist shouldn't say their teaching is just philosophy because it ain't. For full Buddhism, you need
to suspend belief.

How I certain? The thing is, as atheist, I don't need to certain about this. Because it never was. And never will.
If supernatural exist, which supernatural is correct? If Buddhism is correct, Christianity is wrong. And vice versa.
All this cannot be proven.

This just make Buddhism failed as much as Christianity in logical and philosophical department.

*
Huh? what make u say on the bolded? To suspend belief? where u learn Buddhism from ? Journey to the West? Monkey God? or TVB drama?

In which part u are comparing between Buddhism and Christianity on the right or wrong? some concept in both maybe in contradiction but some are compatible... u can't just generally said which is wrong or which is right..
dreamer101
post Aug 14 2010, 08:55 PM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 14 2010, 12:15 PM)
do you agree? somehow saying buddhism is
teaching is misleading
yes there is...in my context...
*
gogo2,

You disagreed with one type of Buddhism, But, that is NOT the only kind of Buddhism. Buddhism is not like those Abrahamic religion where there is ONLY one way.

Buddhism do not believe that you have to believe in Buddhism in order to reach enlightenment either.

There are Buddhism that believe re-incarnation and all those supernatural stuff are necessary. And, there are those like Zen Buddhism that could not care for this.

<<somehow saying buddhism is teaching is misleading>>

Honey to someone is poison to others. If this does not work for you, do something else.

Fundamentally, Buddhism believe that all the answers are WITHING us. We do not have to look outside to get it. Now, how do you reach enlightenment, there are many ways. Pick the one that works for you.

Dreamer
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post Aug 14 2010, 09:31 PM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 14 2010, 04:10 PM)
You're right. When the notion if rebirth is created, they don't have statistic that human population increased. Another proof
that Buddhism is just another religion created by human to understand their nature and environment.
*
there's nothing wrong with Buddhism being as a creation of human.. Newton's law too a creation of human, it's not totally accurate but still been using till today..
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post Aug 15 2010, 12:00 AM

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QUOTE(randyhow @ Aug 14 2010, 08:53 PM)
Huh? what make u say on the bolded? To suspend belief? where u learn Buddhism  from ? Journey to the West? Monkey God? or TVB drama?

In which part u are comparing between Buddhism and Christianity on the right or wrong? some concept in both maybe in contradiction but some are compatible... u can't just generally said which is wrong or which is right..
*
At first, I learn my Buddhism from books written from well known monk about how to live the Buddha's way.

Then I read from Sutra that being translated to English.

To believe in rebirth, all seeing Buddha, multiple realm etc is to suspend belief.

QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 14 2010, 08:55 PM)
gogo2,

You disagreed with one type of Buddhism,  But, that is NOT the only kind of Buddhism.  Buddhism is not like those Abrahamic religion where there is ONLY one way.

Buddhism do not believe that you have to believe in Buddhism in order to reach enlightenment either.

There are Buddhism that believe re-incarnation and all those supernatural stuff are necessary.  And, there are those like Zen Buddhism that could not care for this.

<<somehow saying buddhism is teaching is misleading>>

Honey to someone is poison to others.  If this does not work for you, do something else.

Fundamentally, Buddhism believe that all the answers are WITHING us. We do not have to look outside to get it.  Now, how do you reach enlightenment, there are many ways.  Pick the one that works for you.

Dreamer
*
The fundamental things about answer is within us and all sorts of logical nice to hear things for us who think deeply really
concerns me. Why this thing concerns me?Its because I believe these words only touching the surface of Buddhism.Its very misleading.

In the end, whatever type of Buddhism u go, there's element of suspended belief.

QUOTE(randyhow @ Aug 14 2010, 09:31 PM)
there's nothing wrong with Buddhism being as a creation of human.. Newton's law too a creation of human, it's not totally accurate but still been using till today..
*
Did I say anything wrong? LOL... I'm just trying to score a point that religion are human made. Any supernatural stuff like rebirth, multiple realm etc
is just created during that time because people that time are more incline to belief such things.

Now who want to belief such stuff? ONly religionist will belief.For me, as atheist, its all in the mind. You mind have trick you to belief
all this supernatural things is real...
unknown warrior
post Aug 15 2010, 12:23 AM

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Honestly I don't see any difference between this thread and All about Religion v2 Thread.
Joe, what's the point of having this when the content of discussion is more less similar?


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post Aug 15 2010, 12:29 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Aug 15 2010, 12:23 AM)
Honestly I don't see any difference between this thread and All about Religion v2 Thread.
Joe, what's the point of having this when the content of discussion is more less similar?
*
For me, All about Religion always like Believers (abrahamic religion vs the rest of the world).

While this thread is about Buddhism vs Atheist...

Since Buddhism always like to say they are philosophical but actually they are not if they delve
deeper. This probably the most misleading thing about Buddhism. Lured you in by promising the
most logical religion ever existed.But when you're in and delve deeper, the same supernatural
thing like Christian exist.

At least, Christian are totally honest about it. THey said we're supernatural. Need faith to understand.
But Buddhism instead tell us, hey, no supernatural. All philosophical. Yeah right.
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post Aug 15 2010, 12:45 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 15 2010, 12:29 AM)
For me, All about Religion always like Believers (abrahamic religion vs the rest of the world).

While this thread is about Buddhism vs Atheist...

Since Buddhism always like to say they are philosophical but actually they are not if they delve
deeper. This probably the most misleading thing about Buddhism. Lured you in by promising the
most logical religion ever existed.But when you're in and delve deeper, the same supernatural
thing like Christian exist.

At least, Christian are totally honest about it. THey said we're supernatural. Need faith to understand.
But Buddhism instead tell us, hey, no supernatural. All philosophical. Yeah right.
*
Well said. It is exactly the stuff that i was arguing with these buddhists and some of them even got mad at me. LOL. I was really surprised at that time because like what you said buddhists being wise and reasonable, practice some form of detachment but yet they displayed the same behavior as would believers of abrahamic religions, taunting and cursing.

Buddhism is a religion and it has supernatural elements. While it's philosophical views of life may be enlightening, you need to have faith to believe.
unknown warrior
post Aug 15 2010, 12:58 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 15 2010, 12:29 AM)
For me, All about Religion always like Believers (abrahamic religion vs the rest of the world).

While this thread is about Buddhism vs Atheist...

Since Buddhism always like to say they are philosophical but actually they are not if they delve
deeper. This probably the most misleading thing about Buddhism. Lured you in by promising the
most logical religion ever existed.But when you're in and delve deeper, the same supernatural
thing like Christian exist.

At least, Christian are totally honest about it. THey said we're supernatural. Need faith to understand.
But Buddhism instead tell us, hey, no supernatural. All philosophical. Yeah right.
*
It's not just purely faith.
It's real live experience with God.
That is the difference.
Until so long, you still don't get it.
Sigh.
dreamer101
post Aug 15 2010, 01:49 AM

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QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Aug 15 2010, 12:45 AM)
Well said. It is exactly the stuff that i was arguing with these buddhists and some of them even got mad at me. LOL. I was really surprised at that time because like what you said buddhists being wise and reasonable, practice some form of detachment but yet they displayed the same behavior as would believers of abrahamic religions, taunting and cursing.

Buddhism is a religion and it has supernatural elements. While it's philosophical views of life may be enlightening, you need to have faith to believe.
*
SpikeMarlene,

<< Buddhism is a religion and it has supernatural elements. While it's philosophical views of life may be enlightening, you need to have faith to believe.>>

Who say so??

One type of Buddhism has supernatural elements. You DO NOT have to believe in that kind of Buddhism. You can choose something else.

For example, can you claim that Tibetan Buddhism to represent all kinds of Buddhisms??

Just because one dog is black, it does not mean all dogs are black.

For example, Zen Buddhism do not care about re-incarnation and all those super-natural stuff at all. Zen Buddhism does not care about any sutra at all.

Dreamer

P.S.: For a TRUE Buddhist, there is NO POINT in arguing with anyone. If it works for you, choose this. If not, do something else. There are NO BROWNIE point for making people to believe in Buddhism.

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Aug 15 2010, 01:59 AM
SpikeMarlene
post Aug 15 2010, 02:05 AM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 15 2010, 01:49 AM)
SpikeMarlene,

<< Buddhism is a religion and it has supernatural elements. While it's philosophical views of life may be enlightening, you need to have faith to believe.>>

Who say so??

One type of Buddhism has supernatural elements.  You DO NOT have to believe in that kind of Buddhism.  You can choose something else.

For example, can you claim that Tibetan Buddhism to represent all kinds of Buddhisms??

Just because one dog is black, it does not mean all dogs are black.

For example, Zen Buddhism do not care about re-incarnation and all those super-natural stuff at all.  Zen Buddhism does not care about any sutra at all.

Dreamer

P.S.:  For a TRUE Buddhist, there is NO POINT in arguing with anyone.  If it works for you, choose this.  If not, do something else.  There are NO BROWNIE point for making people to believe in Buddhism.
*
So what does zen buddhism have?
dreamer101
post Aug 15 2010, 02:11 AM

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QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Aug 15 2010, 02:05 AM)
So what does zen buddhism have?
*
SpikeMarlene,

Just live your life. Do the RIGHT stuff and avoid doing the WRONG stuff. Back to the basic.

KNOWING is NEVER the problem. People KNOW. They just cannot DO. Reading more sutras will not help since KNOWING is never the problem to begin with.

Focus on doing and everything will be fine....

Let your living be a form of meditation.

Dreamer

http://goto.bilkent.edu.tr/gunes/ZEN/zenstories.htm

When Tired

A student once asked his teacher,

"Master, what is enlightenment?"

The master replied,

"When hungry, eat. When tired, sleep."


This post has been edited by dreamer101: Aug 15 2010, 02:15 AM
soul2soul
post Aug 15 2010, 07:35 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Aug 15 2010, 12:23 AM)
Honestly I don't see any difference between this thread and All about Religion v2 Thread.
Joe, what's the point of having this when the content of discussion is more less similar?
*
Sigh. I think those people who like to argue on Buddhism should take their case to the religion vs non-religion thread. This thread should serve as the avenue for buddhists who like to discuss about their faith like the Christian lounge.

Enough already.


Added on August 15, 2010, 7:39 am
QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 15 2010, 12:29 AM)
For me, All about Religion always like Believers (abrahamic religion vs the rest of the world).

While this thread is about Buddhism vs Atheist...

Since Buddhism always like to say they are philosophical but actually they are not if they delve
deeper. This probably the most misleading thing about Buddhism. Lured you in by promising the
most logical religion ever existed.But when you're in and delve deeper, the same supernatural
thing like Christian exist.

At least, Christian are totally honest about it. THey said we're supernatural. Need faith to understand.
But Buddhism instead tell us, hey, no supernatural. All philosophical. Yeah right.
*
Yawn. Another versus thread?

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 15 2010, 07:39 AM
SUSgogo2
post Aug 15 2010, 08:24 AM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 15 2010, 01:49 AM)
One type of Buddhism has supernatural elements.  You DO NOT have to believe in that kind of Buddhism.  You can choose something else.
*
There's no type of Buddhism. Every buddhism that you go into will somehow leads you to supernatural stuff. Even the core of it like
rebirth also involve faith because you need to belief that it exist.

Your whole statement just so so typical of evagelism of Buddhism. Very soft approaching. Very nice to hear. Very enlightenening.
But once delve deeper, it is not so. Welcome to Buddhism 101.

QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 15 2010, 02:11 AM)
KNOWING is NEVER the problem.  People KNOW.  They just cannot DO.  Reading more sutras will not help since KNOWING is never the problem to begin with.
*
Buddhist just love to tell story. Furthermore, they will spin around and around about their belief until your kepala pusing. That's why
it will make Buddhism very very high level of religion in intelect. I really think almost all Buddhist attain higher intelectual in religion
than Christian.

QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 15 2010, 07:35 AM)
Sigh. I think those people who like to argue on Buddhism should take their case to the religion vs non-religion thread. This thread should serve as the avenue for buddhists who like to discuss about their faith like the Christian lounge.

Enough already.


Added on August 15, 2010, 7:39 am
Yawn. Another versus thread?
*
Oh, I thought this is for case against Buddhism?

I thought Christian lounge is in Kopitiam section? THey move here already? OMG...

Sorry sorry..

I thought RWI thread is serious discussion with high intellectuality and high impact and not only one sided. sweat.gif
soul2soul
post Aug 15 2010, 08:38 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 15 2010, 08:24 AM)
I thought RWI thread is serious discussion with high intellectuality and high impact and not only one sided. sweat.gif
*
Right.

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 15 2010, 08:41 AM
dreamer101
post Aug 15 2010, 08:50 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 15 2010, 08:24 AM)
There's no type of Buddhism. Every buddhism that you go into will somehow leads you to supernatural stuff. Even the core of it like
rebirth also involve faith because you need to belief that it exist.

Your whole statement just so so typical of evagelism of Buddhism. Very soft approaching. Very nice to hear. Very enlightenening.
But once delve deeper, it is not so. Welcome to Buddhism 101.
Buddhist just love to tell story. Furthermore, they will spin around and around about their belief until your kepala pusing. That's why
it will make Buddhism very very high level of religion in intelect. I really think almost all Buddhist attain higher intelectual in religion
than Christian.
Oh, I thought this is for case against Buddhism?

I thought Christian lounge is in Kopitiam section? THey move here already? OMG...

Sorry sorry..

I thought RWI thread is serious discussion with high intellectuality and high impact and not only one sided. sweat.gif
*
gogo2,

<< There's no type of Buddhism. Every buddhism that you go into will somehow leads you to supernatural stuff. Even the core of it like
rebirth also involve faith because you need to belief that it exist.>>

Not in Zen Buddhism.

<< Your whole statement just so so typical of evagelism of Buddhism. Very soft approaching. Very nice to hear. Very enlightenening.
But once delve deeper, it is not so. Welcome to Buddhism 101.>>

As per your opinion. There is NOTHING deeper in Zen Buddhism. It is BACK to the BASIC. It is SIMPLE. Why does Buddhism has to be HARD??

<<Oh, I thought this is for case against Buddhism?>>

If Buddhism does not work for you, choose something else. What is the problem here?? There are more than one way to reach enlightenment, What is there to against?? It is a PERSONAL CHOICE.

Buddhism is not one of those Abrahamic Religion.

A) We do not claim that it is the ONLY way. In fact, we acknowledge that there are multiple ways to reach enlightenment.

B) There are NO CONVERSION. You can come and go as you please.

C) Enlightenment is a personal journey. Nobody can do it for you. Ditto, nobody can do it for me. And, it is NOT a popularity contest. Just because more people believe in something, it does not mean it is RIGHT for you. You have to find your own way.

<<I thought RWI thread is serious discussion with high intellectuality and high impact >>

What is there to discuss??

You have AN OPINION on one kind of Buddhism, You BELIEVE that it does not work for you. So, to that, I will say best of luck to you. I hope that you find something else that works for you.

As a TRUE BUDDHIST, I want you to find whatever works for you. Why is it so difficult to understand this??

Dreamer




soul2soul
post Aug 15 2010, 08:58 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 15 2010, 08:24 AM)
There's no type of Buddhism. Every buddhism that you go into will somehow leads you to supernatural stuff. Even the core of it like
rebirth also involve faith because you need to belief that it exist.

Your whole statement just so so typical of evagelism of Buddhism. Very soft approaching. Very nice to hear. Very enlightenening.
But once delve deeper, it is not so. Welcome to Buddhism 101.
Buddhist just love to tell story. Furthermore, they will spin around and around about their belief until your kepala pusing. That's why
it will make Buddhism very very high level of religion in intelect. I really think almost all Buddhist attain higher intelectual in religion
than Christian.
Oh, I thought this is for case against Buddhism?

I thought Christian lounge is in Kopitiam section? THey move here already? OMG...

Sorry sorry..

I thought RWI thread is serious discussion with high intellectuality and high impact and not only one sided. sweat.gif
*
Evangelism in buddhism??? That's something new. smile.gif If you want to look at history and the state of the world today, it's the opposite. Buddhism states are slowly turning into christian states due to the aggressive chrisitian missionaries in South Korea. Previously buddhist places like Afghanistan, Indonesia (borobuddur) have long disappeared. If you want to talk about the success of evangelism, nothing can beat christians (in the availability of resources) and the muslims (in the conversion by Law).

Buddhism just offers an alternate view on this world where 99% of religions say there is a Creator. It says the opposite. If you don't like this, no problem dude. But don't make it a case of disliking buddhists for no particular reason just because their belief don't agree with your likings. They don't harm your family , they don't make it a law for you to convert, they don't force you to believe it. They don't force your girlfriend, your father, your mother, your children to believe it. They don't split your family into "us versus them", they don't see you as evil or 'hell denizens'. They don't call you infidels, they don't wage war against your ancestors or family.

Why the anti-buddhist sentiment among some people here? I don't get it.
dreamer101
post Aug 15 2010, 09:07 AM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 15 2010, 08:58 AM)

Why the anti-buddhist sentiment among some people here? I don't get it.

*
soul2soul,

Some people cannot stand the idea that Buddhists are not BUSYBODIES like everyone else. We DO NOT CARE what religion that people believe. They cannot stand religious tolerance.

WE represent another option. Aka, everyone do not have to convert into religion X in order for the world to be at peace and fine.

The PROBLEM is if we are CORRECT, the WHOLE BS about you must be religion X in order to be MORAL falls apart.

Dreamer
soul2soul
post Aug 15 2010, 09:16 AM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 15 2010, 09:07 AM)
soul2soul,

Some people cannot stand the idea that Buddhists are not BUSYBODIES like everyone else.  We DO NOT CARE what religion that people believe.  They cannot stand religious tolerance.

WE represent another option.  Aka, everyone do not have to convert into religion X in order for the world to be at peace and fine.

The PROBLEM is if we are CORRECT, the WHOLE BS about you must be religion X in order to be MORAL falls apart.

Dreamer
*
Dreamer,

They are just not comfortable with their own belief/disbelief, that's all.
SpikeMarlene
post Aug 15 2010, 09:36 AM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 15 2010, 02:11 AM)
SpikeMarlene,

Just live your life.  Do the RIGHT stuff and avoid doing the WRONG stuff.  Back to the basic.

KNOWING is NEVER the problem.  People KNOW.  They just cannot DO.  Reading more sutras will not help since KNOWING is never the problem to begin with.

Focus on doing and everything will be fine....

Let your living be a form of meditation.

Dreamer

http://goto.bilkent.edu.tr/gunes/ZEN/zenstories.htm

When Tired

    A student once asked his teacher,

    "Master, what is enlightenment?"

    The master replied,

    "When hungry, eat. When tired, sleep."
*
So zen is nothing more than living your life the way you want to?
soul2soul
post Aug 15 2010, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 15 2010, 12:29 AM)
For me, All about Religion always like Believers (abrahamic religion vs the rest of the world).

While this thread is about Buddhism vs Atheist...

Since Buddhism always like to say they are philosophical but actually they are not if they delve
deeper. This probably the most misleading thing about Buddhism. Lured you in by promising the
most logical religion ever existed.But when you're in and delve deeper, the same supernatural
thing like Christian exist.

At least, Christian are totally honest about it. THey said we're supernatural. Need faith to understand.
But Buddhism instead tell us, hey, no supernatural. All philosophical. Yeah right.
*
maybe we should ask the moderators what direction they prefer this thread to be, a versus thread or buddhist thread.


Added on August 15, 2010, 9:54 am
QUOTE(randyhow @ Aug 14 2010, 09:31 PM)
there's nothing wrong with Buddhism being as a creation of human.. Newton's law too a creation of human, it's not totally accurate but still been using till today..
*
I think they have a problem of buddhism being a creation of human but claiming to have the answer to the supernatural world. I still fail to see why they are upset with this.

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 15 2010, 09:54 AM
dreamer101
post Aug 15 2010, 10:05 AM

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QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Aug 15 2010, 09:36 AM)
So zen is nothing more than living your life the way you want to?
*
SpikeMarlene,

Zen is about REALLY living your life.

You will be surprised on how hard is it to do that.

Dreamer

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post Aug 15 2010, 10:35 AM

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QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Aug 15 2010, 12:45 AM)
Buddhism is a religion and it has supernatural elements. While it's philosophical views of life may be enlightening, you need to have faith to believe.
*

the term 'supernatural' only applies to those who are uninitiated, to the ones who know....they are 'natural' elements of how things are.

And yes, all endeavours need some form of faith to begin. You dont know how to drive. I teach u how to drive. You will need faith to know that u may be able to drive after learning from me.

SpikeMarlene
post Aug 15 2010, 10:37 AM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 15 2010, 10:05 AM)
SpikeMarlene,

Zen is about REALLY living your life.

You will be surprised on how hard is it to do that.

Dreamer
*
I am really living my life as it is. Is that zen then? Or is there something I miss in my life?
teongpeng
post Aug 15 2010, 10:37 AM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 15 2010, 10:05 AM)
SpikeMarlene,

Zen is about REALLY living your life.

You will be surprised on how hard is it to do that.

Dreamer
*

Thats right. Everybody knows "studying hard" is the way to get good grades. Not many are able (or know how) to do that. Whining is the next option.


Added on August 15, 2010, 10:38 am
QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Aug 15 2010, 10:37 AM)
I am really living my life as it is. Is that zen then? Or is there something I miss in my life?
*

the difference is in the quality.


This post has been edited by teongpeng: Aug 15 2010, 10:38 AM
dreamer101
post Aug 15 2010, 10:40 AM

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QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Aug 15 2010, 10:37 AM)
I am really living my life as it is. Is that zen then? Or is there something I miss in my life?
*
SpikeMarlene,

If you do, how could you miss ANYTHING?? You had done what you could at every moment of your life. What else is there??

Dreamer
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post Aug 15 2010, 10:40 AM

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QUOTE(teongpeng @ Aug 15 2010, 10:35 AM)
the term 'supernatural' only applies to those who are uninitiated, to the ones who know....they are 'natural' elements of how things are.

And yes, all endeavours need some form of faith to begin. You dont know how to drive. I teach u how to drive. You will need faith to know that u may be able to drive after learning from me.
*
How does something supernatural for the uninitiated is natural for the initiated?

Faith in driving is very different from faith in the supernatural. I can and do drive and I can demonstrate to you that I can drive eventually (after some training). My faith in something natural is very different from faith in something supernatural. Or to put that in an extreme example, how do you know your faith is not about something that does not exist?


Added on August 15, 2010, 10:41 am
QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 15 2010, 10:40 AM)
SpikeMarlene,

If you do, how could you miss ANYTHING?? You had done what you could at every moment of your life.  What else is there??

Dreamer
*
So what is zen then, if there is nothing more than living?

This post has been edited by SpikeMarlene: Aug 15 2010, 10:45 AM
dreamer101
post Aug 15 2010, 10:59 AM

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QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Aug 15 2010, 10:40 AM)


Added on August 15, 2010, 10:41 am
So what is zen then, if there is nothing more than living?
*
SpikeMarlene,

Zen is living life to the fullest. What else is there besides living??

Every morning, I enjoy a good cup of coffee. I take my effort to slowly sip and enjoy my coffee. That is a form of meditation. Doing thing as it is. Only mindful of coffee and nothing else. That is a simple joy for me. What do you do for yourself everyday??

When I do something, I put my full concentration and effort in it. I do the best that I could. I focus on the moment. That is living to the fullest.

Dreamer
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post Aug 15 2010, 11:07 AM

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QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Aug 15 2010, 10:40 AM)
How does something supernatural for the uninitiated is natural for the initiated?
for a person is who blind since birth...and only ever communicate with other blind-since-birth people, vision would be supernatural.


Added on August 15, 2010, 11:09 am
QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Aug 15 2010, 10:40 AM)
Faith in driving is very different from faith in the supernatural. I can and do drive and I can demonstrate to you that I can drive eventually (after some training). My faith in something natural is very different from faith in something supernatural. Or to put that in an extreme example, how do you know your faith is not about something that does not exist?
thats when ones judgement is put to the test. sleep.gif

QUOTE
I can and do drive and I can demonstrate to you that I can drive eventually (after some training).
all buddhist practise are based on this principle, that one can actually experience it for themselves (after some training).

This post has been edited by teongpeng: Aug 15 2010, 11:24 AM
Cho_Hakkai
post Aug 15 2010, 12:01 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 15 2010, 08:58 AM)
Evangelism in buddhism??? That's something new.  smile.gif  If you want to look at history and the state of the world today, it's the opposite.  Buddhism states are slowly turning into christian states due to the aggressive chrisitian missionaries in South Korea. Previously buddhist places like Afghanistan, Indonesia (borobuddur) have long disappeared.  If you want to talk about the success of evangelism, nothing can beat christians (in the availability of resources) and the muslims (in the conversion by Law). 

Buddhism just offers an alternate view on this world where 99% of religions say there is a Creator. It says the opposite. If you don't like this, no problem dude. But don't make it a case of disliking buddhists for no particular reason just because their belief don't agree with your likings. They don't harm your family , they don't make it a law for you to convert, they don't force you to believe it.  They don't force your girlfriend, your father, your mother, your children to believe it. They don't split your family into "us versus them", they don't see you as evil or 'hell denizens'. They don't call you infidels, they don't wage war against your ancestors or family.

Why the anti-buddhist sentiment among some people here? I don't get it.
*
Regarding the bolded part. This may be partly true but if you look from another angle, this shows that there are also some Buddhist teaching that may mislead us to unhappiness. Some of the Buddhist teaching may also mislead the people and you can see it in some of the priest who abuse their power to control the people.

Currently, the only lay organization for Buddhism is Soka Gakkai International (SGI) which is growing now as more and more people are taking faith under it. It organization is under Nichiren Buddhism.

Dreamer101: I may not know much about Zen Buddhism but what you said about it relates to some of SGI concept which is live life to the fullest and regards hardship and problems you are getting as an opportunity for you to improve yourself.
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post Aug 15 2010, 01:14 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Aug 15 2010, 12:23 AM)
Honestly I don't see any difference between this thread and All about Religion v2 Thread.
Joe, what's the point of having this when the content of discussion is more less similar?
*
Firstly, this thread was started to talk about the previous thread in /k/ that was deleted. Then it was bumped into RWI and then changed to be a thread on Buddhism.

QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 15 2010, 07:35 AM)
Sigh. I think those people who like to argue on Buddhism should take their case to the religion vs non-religion thread. This thread should serve as the avenue for buddhists who like to discuss about their faith like the Christian lounge.

Enough already.

*
nod.gif

Yes, this thread should be for Buddhists and those interested in Buddhism to discuss. Lets not argue. Those who exist in the forum just to argue, could you please take it elsewhere?

Thank you.


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post Aug 15 2010, 04:33 PM

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To gogo2,

1) plz forgive my stupidity, but what do u actually mean of suspend belief? Temporary not Belief ? or do u mean suspend dis-belief? Temporary Belief?
plz elaborate...

From what i know Buddhism do encourage doubt and do not support blind belief .. have u heard of Buddhism concept in illusion of reality? being is non-being,.. non-being is being?



2) i strongly agreed with u, generally many belief in Buddhism into superstitious and supernatural, even among those who call themself a buddhist like my mum (she actually a rojak of chinese's rituals + Confucianism + Taoist + Buddhism + Folklores's stories + Urban Legend + TVB's Drama)...

i'm an Atheist myself, i stop burning incense sticks to deities since my teen age days, i did some digging on own cultural knowledge,

a) Taoist - very early type of thinking of the world founded by Lao Tze written in "Tao De Ching" which consist the order of the world( 1 tai chi, 2 ying-yang, 5 elements....) , immortality, chemistry, and.. yes Taoism too consist of philosophy too... but current Taoist are branches out to be
i) Tao Zhia (Direct Translation:Taoist's Family)... The Taoist renounce civilization and meditate in the wild
ii) Tao Zhio (DT: Taoist's Religion)... The Taoist who perform funeral rituals, extort ghost, supernatural + folkslores

b) Confucianism- most early teaching of moral, rituals, reject supernatural and superstitious , society concept.. (want to know more go google)

c) Buddhism- only started to spread to China during the Tang Dynasty 600+ AD. The infamous Monkey God (wukong) and his master in Journey to the West is a fiction base on a true event of a monk who go to India to get the original scripture on Buddhism.. in Historian point of view it is natural when magical and superstitious stuff was adapted into the original story.. (like Batman movie is also off on the original story).. to make it interesting ...
But main essence of Buddhism is not the stories but on the concept of the idea.. if u been arguing that Buddhism is not philosophy, then why do so many professor of philosophy take this as their subject of study?


3) Even in science, don't u also see there's superstitious or supernatural in it? long time ago ppl believe hypnotism is due magnetism of the hypnotist, they believe radioactive radiation do good for ur body, heroin is use as cough sirup ... currently ppl believe in UFO, Monsters, crystal's energy, free energy ....all in the name of science.. Even Quantum Theory is destroying our most logical sense and become magical.. same particle in different place, time bending, space bending .....

Should we denounce science b'cos there some superstitious or supernatural element in it?

-------------

To JoeMamak,
It's okay for debate,.. buddhism do encourage debate... monks in Tibet practice debate every day on the scripture.. but i truely disagreed on being a debate of Buddhist vs Atheists or other religion, b'cos it will end up like a child repeating same phrase "It is so!!" , "It is not so!!" over and over and over again.... i rather the debate of "why why liddat" vs "why why not liddat"... but cant a discussion not end up as a something vs something.. but more on "How, Why or What" direction... seems like some Atheist also have close mind that reject every thing that is not norm to them...

This post has been edited by randyhow: Aug 15 2010, 04:50 PM
El Sol
post Aug 15 2010, 04:57 PM

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Wu Kong = Hatred

The pig = Greed

The I dunno how to call him (wu jing??) = delusion

does this ring a bell??..biggrin.gif hahhaa...symbolic representation of de-attachment..biggrin.gif
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post Aug 15 2010, 05:00 PM

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Buddhist got celebrate Qixi Festival(七夕節) or not?
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post Aug 15 2010, 05:31 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 15 2010, 08:58 AM)
Evangelism in buddhism??? That's something new.  smile.gif  If you want to look at history and the state of the world today, it's the opposite.  Buddhism states are slowly turning into christian states due to the aggressive chrisitian missionaries in South Korea. Previously buddhist places like Afghanistan, Indonesia (borobuddur) have long disappeared.  If you want to talk about the success of evangelism, nothing can beat christians (in the availability of resources) and the muslims (in the conversion by Law). 

Buddhism just offers an alternate view on this world where 99% of religions say there is a Creator. It says the opposite. If you don't like this, no problem dude. But don't make it a case of disliking buddhists for no particular reason just because their belief don't agree with your likings. They don't harm your family , they don't make it a law for you to convert, they don't force you to believe it.  They don't force your girlfriend, your father, your mother, your children to believe it. They don't split your family into "us versus them", they don't see you as evil or 'hell denizens'. They don't call you infidels, they don't wage war against your ancestors or family.

Why the anti-buddhist sentiment among some people here? I don't get it.
*
QUOTE(Cho_Hakkai @ Aug 15 2010, 12:01 PM)
Regarding the bolded part. This may be partly true but if you look from another angle, this shows that there are also some Buddhist teaching that may mislead us to unhappiness. Some of the Buddhist teaching may also mislead the people and you can see it in some of the priest who abuse their power to control the people.

Currently, the only lay organization for Buddhism is Soka Gakkai International (SGI) which is growing now as more and more people are taking faith under it. It organization is under Nichiren Buddhism.

Dreamer101: I may not know much about Zen Buddhism but what you said about it relates to some of SGI concept which is live life to the fullest and regards hardship and problems you are getting as an opportunity for you to improve yourself.
*
Actually what are you guys afraid of?
Christianity has it's merits. They are the hidden Truth to be discovered.
Once you know and experience God for yourself, you will never look at it with fear nor contempt.
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post Aug 15 2010, 05:45 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Aug 15 2010, 05:31 PM)
Actually what are you guys afraid of?
Christianity has it's merits. They are the hidden Truth to be discovered.
Once you know and experience God for yourself, you will never look at it with fear nor contempt.
*
Actually what are you guys afraid of?
Buddhism has it's merits. They are the hidden Dhamma to be discovered.
Once you know and experience the Triple Gem for yourself, you will never look at it with fear nor contempt.

This post has been edited by zstan: Aug 15 2010, 05:46 PM
SUSrandyhow
post Aug 15 2010, 05:51 PM

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禪Zen is a school of Mahāyāna Buddhism. The Japanese word Zen is derived from the Chinese word Chán, which in turn is derived from the Sanskrit word dhyāna, which means "meditation" or "meditative state."

Zen emphasizes experiential prajñā in the attainment of enlightenment. As such, it de-emphasizes theoretical knowledge in favor of direct realization through meditation and dharma practice. The teachings of Zen include various sources of Mahāyāna thought, including the Prajñāpāramitā literature and the teachings of the Yogācāra and Tathāgatagarbha schools.

The emergence of Zen as a distinct school of Buddhism was first documented in China in the 7th century CE. From China, Zen spread south to Vietnam, and east to Korea and Japan. As a matter of tradition, the establishment of Zen is credited to the South Indian prince-turned-monk Bodhidharma, who came to China to teach a "special transmission outside scriptures, not founded on words or letters".
-Wikipedia
dreamer101
post Aug 15 2010, 07:19 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Aug 15 2010, 05:31 PM)
Actually what are you guys afraid of?
Christianity has it's merits. They are the hidden Truth to be discovered.
Once you know and experience God for yourself, you will never look at it with fear nor contempt.
*
unknown warrior,

The path towards enlightenment is WITHIN you. Why do you need to read a book and argue with people on what the book says to find IT??

That is the DIFFERENCE between Buddhism and Abrahamic Religions.

We encourage doubt and thinking. We encourage CHOICES. It is a PERSONAL JOURNEY. We look WITHIN us to find answer.

God may or may not exists. But, why do you need to read a book to experience God?? If God exists, it should be within us too.

The ANSWER is always here. It is always within us. We are the problem and we are the solution.

YOU feel the NEED to convince OTHERS. Why?? If it is GOOD and RIGHT for us, we will find it. If not, why burden us with something that is WRONG for us??

Why there should be ONLY ONE way?? I don't believe that.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Aug 15 2010, 07:21 PM
unknown warrior
post Aug 15 2010, 08:13 PM

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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 15 2010, 05:45 PM)
Actually what are you guys afraid of?
Buddhism has it's merits. They are the hidden Dhamma to be discovered.
Once you know and experience the Triple Gem for yourself, you will never look at it with fear nor contempt.
*
QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 15 2010, 07:19 PM)
unknown warrior,

The path towards enlightenment is WITHIN you.  Why do you need to read a book and argue with people on what the book says to find IT??

That is the DIFFERENCE between Buddhism and Abrahamic Religions.

We encourage doubt and thinking.  We encourage CHOICES.  It is a PERSONAL JOURNEY.  We look WITHIN us to find answer.

God may or may not exists.  But, why do you need to read a book to experience God?? If God exists, it should be within us too.

The ANSWER is always here.  It is always within us.  We are the problem and we are the solution.

YOU feel the NEED to convince OTHERS.  Why??  If it is GOOD and RIGHT for us, we will find it.  If not, why burden us with something that is WRONG for us??

Why there should be ONLY ONE way??  I don't believe that.

Dreamer
*
It's okay I'm not trying to convert you guys.
To explain why this and that is to invite heated debate.
dreamer101
post Aug 15 2010, 08:55 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Aug 15 2010, 08:13 PM)
It's okay I'm not trying to convert you guys.
To explain why this and that is to invite heated debate.
*
unknown warrior,

Why should we care about YOUR BELIEF?? That is YOUR PROBLEM for you to solve out. If it works for you, fine. If not, do something else.

Ditto for us. We have to work out on our own what works for us.

<<It's okay I'm not trying to convert you guys.>>

YOU choose your burden. Being in a Abrahamic Religion, you BELIEVE that there is ONLY one way. Hence, you NEED to argue with EVERYONE else that they are WRONG or their interpretation of the book is wrong.

We are Buddhist. We believe in multiple paths towards Enlightenment. We have neither the NEED or DESIRE to prove OTHERS are wrong. We do not have that BURDEN. All paths are possible and equally valid.

That is the part that you do not understand. This is IRRELEVANT to us.

Dreamer


unknown warrior
post Aug 15 2010, 09:06 PM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 15 2010, 08:55 PM)
unknown warrior,

Why should we care about YOUR BELIEF?? That is YOUR PROBLEM for you to solve out.  If it works for you, fine.  If not, do something else.

Ditto for us.  We have to work out on our own what works for us.

<<It's okay I'm not trying to convert you guys.>>

YOU choose your burden.  Being in a Abrahamic Religion, you BELIEVE that there is ONLY one way.  Hence, you NEED to argue with EVERYONE else that they are WRONG or their interpretation of the book is wrong.

We are Buddhist.  We believe in multiple paths towards Enlightenment.  We have neither the NEED or DESIRE to prove OTHERS are wrong.  We do not have that BURDEN.  All paths are possible and equally valid.

That is the part that you do not understand.  This is IRRELEVANT to us.

Dreamer
*
You sounds hurt about Christianity.
SUSgogo2
post Aug 15 2010, 09:08 PM

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QUOTE(randyhow @ Aug 15 2010, 04:33 PM)
To gogo2,

1) plz forgive my stupidity, but what do u actually mean of suspend belief?  Temporary not Belief ? or do u mean suspend dis-belief? Temporary Belief?
plz elaborate...
*
sorry... its my stupidity... i mean, suspend dis-belief.... in another word, have to suspend reality to belief something
supernatural... oh mai... my engris so bad...

well.. i can't debate anymore because i'm not welcome in this thread...lol
dreamer101
post Aug 15 2010, 09:12 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Aug 15 2010, 09:06 PM)
You sounds hurt about Christianity.
*
unknown warrior,

The right word is I feel sorry for you. But, that is your life and your choice.

Dreamer

P.S.: My Christian friends are learning Hebrew in order to read "Dead Sea Scroll" directly. They are working very hard to get as pure and accurate meaning in bible.

P.S.2.: I am Zen Buddhist. I do not even believe in reading Sutras.


Added on August 15, 2010, 9:17 pm
QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 15 2010, 09:08 PM)
sorry... its my stupidity... i mean, suspend dis-belief.... in another word, have to suspend reality to belief something
supernatural... oh mai... my engris so bad...

well.. i can't debate anymore because i'm not welcome in this thread...lol
*
gogo2,

1) You say that Buddhism is not right for you. So, we say we wish you best of luck in choosing something else. What is there to debate???

2) We are Buddhist. We believe in multiple paths toward enlightenment. Now, to argue and debate with you mean that we are not Buddhist.

3) The ONLY thing that we want from EVERYONE else is for people to RESPECT everyone's RIGHT to choose and think for themselves.

Dreamer

Folks,

WHY is it so hard for people to understand??

Buddhism is ONE way. It is NOT the only way. We do not claim exclusivity of Universal Truth. How could we anyhow?? It is always there anyhow. It is within us.

Hence, we neither feel the need or desire to convert or convince anyone. If a person wants to find it, all he / she needs to do is to meditate and they will experience it. No external tool are required. If a person does not want it, there are no way for them to get it anyhow.

Dreamer


This post has been edited by dreamer101: Aug 15 2010, 09:27 PM
zstan
post Aug 15 2010, 09:34 PM

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Reincarnation

Do you Buddhists believe in rebirth as an animal in the next life? Are you going to be a dog or a cow in the future? Does the soul transmigrate into the body of another person or some animal? What is the difference between transmigration and reincarnation? Is it the same as rebirth? Is karma the same as fate? These and a hundred similar questions are often put to me.

A gross misunderstanding of about Buddhism exists today, especially in the notion of reincarnation. The common misunderstanding is that a person has led countless previous lives, usually as an animal, but somehow in this life he is born as a human being and in the next life he will be reborn as an animal, depending on the kind of life he has lived.

This misunderstanding arises because people usually do not know-how to read the sutras or sacred writings. It is said that the Buddha left 84,000 teachings; the symbolic figure represents the diverse backgrounds characteristics, tastes, etc. of the people. The Buddha taught according to the mental and spiritual capacity of each individual. For the simple village folks living during the time of the Buddha, the doctrine of reincarnation was a powerful moral lesson. Fear of birth into the animal world must have frightened many people from acting like animals in this life. If we take this teaching literally today we are confused because we cannot understand it rationally.

Herein lies our problem. A parable, when taken literally, does not make sense to the modern mind. Therefore we must learn to differentiate the parables and myths from actuality. However, if we learn to go beyond or transcend the parables and myths, we will be able to understand the truth.

People will say "If such is the case why not speak directly so that we will be able to come to an immediate grasp of the truth?" This statement is understandable, but truth is often inexpressible. [Ed comment: we as human beings are limited in understanding "Buddha Knowledge". We cannot speak TRUTH, only words ABOUT Truth] Thus, writers and teachers have often resorted to the language of the imagination to lead the reader from a lower to a higher truth. The doctrine of reincarnation is often understood in this light.

What Reincarnation is Not

Reincarnation is not a simple physical birth of a person; for instance, John being reborn as a cat in the next life. In this case John possesses an immortal soul which transforms to the form of a cat after his death. This cycle is repeated over and over again. Or if he is lucky, he will be reborn as a human being. This notion of the transmigration of the soul definitely does not exist in Buddhism.

Karma

Karma is a Sanskrit word from the root "Kri" to do or to make and simply means "action." It operates in the universe as the continuous chain reaction of cause and effect. It is not only confined to causation in the physical sense but also it has moral implications. "A good cause, a good effect; a bad cause a bad effect" is a common saying. In this sense karma is a moral law.

Now human beings are constantly giving off physical and spiritual forces in all directions. In physics we learn that no energy is ever lost; only that it changes form. This is the common law of conservation of energy. Similarly, spiritual and mental action is never lost. It is transformed. Thus Karma is the law of the conservation of moral energy.

By actions, thoughts, and words, man is releasing spiritual energy to the universe and he is in turn affected by influences coming in his direction. Man is therefore the sender and receiver of all these influences. The entire circumstances surrounding him is his karma.

With each action-influence he sends out and at the same time, receives, he is changing. This changing personality and the world he lives in, constitute the totality of his karma.

Karma should not be confused with fate. Fate is the notion that man's life is preplanned for him by some external power, and he has no control over his destiny. Karma on the other hand, can be changed. Because man is a conscious being he can be aware of his karma and thus strive to change the course of events. In the Dhammapada we find the following words, "All that we are is a result of what we have thought, it is founded on our thoughts and made up of our thoughts."

What we are, then, is entirely dependent on what we think. Therefore, the nobility of man's character is dependent on his"good" thoughts, actions, and words. At the same time, if he embraces degrading thoughts, those thoughts invariably influence him into negative words and actions.

The World

Traditionally, Buddhism teaches the existence of the ten realms of being. At the top is Buddha and the scale descends as follows: Bodhisattva (an enlightened being destined to be a Buddha, but purposely remaining on earth to teach others), Pratyeka Buddha (a Buddha for himself), Sravka (direct disciple of Buddha), heavenly beings (superhuman [angels?]), human beings, Asura (fighting spirits), beasts, Preta (hungry ghosts), and depraved men (hellish beings).

Now, these ten realms may be viewed as unfixed, nonobjective worlds, as mental and spiritual states of mind. These states of mind are created by men's thoughts, actions, and words. In other words, psychological states. These ten realms are "mutually immanent and mutually inclusive, each one having in it the remaining nine realms." For example, the realm of human beings has all the other nine states (from hell to Buddhahood). Man is at the same time capable of real selfishness, creating his own hell, or is truly compassionate, reflecting the compassion of Amida Buddha. Buddhas too have the other nine realms in their minds, for how can a Buddha possibly save those in hell if he himself does not identify with their suffering and guide them to enlightenment.

The Lesson

We can learn a valuable lesson from the teaching of reincarnation.

In what realm do you now live? If you are hungry for power, love, and self-recognition, you live in the Preta world, or hungry ghosts. If you are motivated only by thirsts of the human organism, you are existing in the world of the beast.

Consider well then your motives and intentions. Remember that man is characteristically placed at the midpoint of the ten stages; he can either lower himself abruptly or gradually into hell or through discipline, cultivation and the awakening of faith rise to the Enlightened state of the Buddha.

This post has been edited by zstan: Aug 15 2010, 09:36 PM
zstan
post Aug 15 2010, 09:54 PM

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This is a bit complicated laugh.gif

The Law of Karma


We have come to a couple of related ideas which are common in Buddhism and they are the ideas of karma and rebirth. These ideas are closely inter-related, but because the subject is a fairly wide one, we will begin to deal with the idea of karma todayand rebirth in another lecture.

We know that what binds us in samsara are the defilements — desire, ill-will and ignorance. We spoke about this when we talked about the Second Noble Truth — the truth of the cause of suffering. These defilements are something which every living being in samsara shares, whether we speak of human beings or animals or beings who live in the other realms which we do not normally perceive. In this, all living beings are alike and yet amongst all the living beings that we can normally perceive, there are many differences. For instance, some of us are wealthy, some are less wealthy, some are strong and healthy, others are disabled and so forth. There are many differences amongst living beings and even more so there are differences between animals and human beings. These differences are due to karma.

What we all share - desire, ill-will and ignorance - are common to all living beings, but the particular condition in which we find ourselves is the result of our particular karma that conditions the situation in which we find ourselves, the situation in which we may be wealthy, strong and so forth. These circumstances are decided by karma. It is in this sense that karma explains the differences amongst living beings. It explains why some beings are fortunate while others are less fortunate, some are happy while others are less happy. The Buddha has specifically stated that karma explains the differences between living beings. You might also recall that the understanding of how karma affects the birth of living beings in happy or unhappy circumstances — the knowledge of how living beings move from happy circumstances to unhappy circumstances, and vice versa, from unhappy to happy circumstances as a result of their karma - was part of the Buddha’s experience on the night of His enlightenment. It is karma that explains the circumstances that living beings find themselves in.

Having said this much about the function of karma, let us look more closely at what karma is. Let us define karma. Maybe we can define karma best by first deciding what karma is not. It is quite often the case that we find people misunderstanding the idea of karma. This is particularly true in our daily casual use of the term. We find people saying that one cannot change one’s situation because of one’s karma. In this sense, karma becomes a sort of escape. It becomes similar to predestination or fatalism. This is emphatically not the correct understanding of karma. It is possible that this misunderstanding of karma has come about because of the popular idea that we have about luck and fate. It may be for this reason that our idea of karma has become overlaid in popular thought with the notion of predestination. Karma is not fate or predestination.

If karma is not fate or predestination, then what is it? Let us look at the term itself. Karma means action, means "to do". Immediately we have an indication that the real meaning of karma is not fate because karma is action. It is dynamic. But it is more than simply action because it is not mechanical action. It is not unconscious or involuntary action. It is intentional, conscious, deliberate, willful action. How is it that this intentional, will action conditions or determines our situation? It is because every action must have a reaction, an effect. This truth has been expressed in regard to the physical universe by the great physicist Newton who formulated the law which states that every action must have an equal and opposite reaction. In the moral sphere of conscious actions, we have a counterpart to the physical law of action and reaction, the law that every intentional, will action must have its effect. This is why we sometimes speak either of Karma-Vipaka, intentional action and its ripened effect, or we speak of Karma-Phala, intentional action and its fruit. It is when we speak of intentional action together with its effect or fruit that we speak of the Law of Karma.

In its most basic sense, the Law of Karma in the moral sphere teaches that similar actions will lead to similar results. Let us take an example. If we plant a mango seed, the plant that springs up will be a mango tree, and eventually it will bear a mango fruit. Alternatively, if we plant a Pong Pong seed, the tree that will spring up will be a Pong Pong tree and the fruit a Pong Pong. As one sows, so shall one reap. According to one’s action, so shall be the fruit. Similarly, in the Law of Karma, if we do a wholesome action, eventually we will get a wholesome fruit, and if we do an unwholesome action eventually we will get an unwholesome, painful result. This is what we mean when we say that causes bring about effects that are similar to the causes. This we will see very clearly when we come to specific examples of wholesome and unwholesome actions.

We can understand by means of this general introduction that karma can be of two varieties - wholesome karma or good karma and unwholesome karma or bad karma. In order that we should not misunderstand this description of karma, it is useful for us to look at the original term. In this case, it is kushala or akushala karma, karma that is wholesome or unwholesome. In order that we understand how these terms are being used, it is important that we know the real meaning of kushala and akushala. Kushala means intelligent or skilful, whereas akushala means not intelligent, not skilful. This helps us to understand how these terms are being used, not in terms of good and evil but in terms of skilful and unskilful, in terms of intelligent and unintelligent, in terms of wholesome and unwholesome. Now how wholesome and how unwholesome? Wholesome in the sense that those actions which are beneficial to oneself and others, those actions that spring not out of desire, ill-will and ignorance, but out of renunciation, loving-kindness and compassion, and wisdom.

One may ask how does one know whether an action that is wholesome or unwholesome will produce happiness or unhappiness. The answer is time will tell. The Buddha Himself answered the question. He has explained that so long as an unwholesome action does not bear its fruit of suffering, for so long a foolish person will consider that action good. But when that unwholesome action bears its fruit of suffering then he will realize that the action is unwholesome. Similarly, so long as a wholesome action does not bear its fruit of happiness, a good person may consider that action unwholesome. When it bears its fruit of happiness, then he will realize that the action is good. So one needs to judge wholesome and unwholesome action from the point of view of long-term effect. Very simply, wholesome actions result in eventual happiness for oneself and others, while unwholesome actions have the opposite result, they result in suffering for oneself and others.

Specifically, the unwholesome actions which are to be avoided relate to the three doors or means of action, and these are body, speech and mind. There are three unwholesome actions of the body, four of speech and three of mind that are to be avoided. The three unwholesome actions of body that are to be avoided are killing, stealing and sexual misconduct. The four unwholesome actions of speech that are to be avoided are lying, slander, harsh speech and malicious gossip. The three unwholesome actions of mind that are to be avoided are greed, anger and delusion. By avoiding these ten unwholesome actions we will avoid their consequences. The unwholesome actions have suffering as their fruit. The fruit of these unwholesome actions can take various forms. The fully ripened fruit of the unwholesome actions consists of rebirth in the lower realms, in the realms of suffering — hell, hungry ghosts and animals. If these unwholesome actions are not sufficient to result in rebirth in these lower realms, they will result in unhappiness in this life as a human being. Here we can see at work the principle of a cause resulting in a similar effect. For example, habitual killing which is motivated by ill-will and anger and which results in the taking of the life of other beings will result in rebirth in the hells where one’s experience is saturated by anger and ill-will and where one may be repeatedly killed. If killing is not sufficiently habitual or weighty to result in rebirth in the hells, killing will result in shortened life as a human being, separation from loved ones, fear or paranoia. Here too we can see how the effect is similar to the cause. Killing shortens the life of others, deprives others of their loved ones and so forth, and so if we kill we will be liable to experience these effects. Similarly, stealing which is borne of the defilement of desire may lead to rebirth as a hungry ghost where one is totally destitute of desired objects. If it does not result in rebirth as a ghost, it will result in poverty, dependence upon others for one’s livelihood and so forth. Sexual misconduct results in martial distress or unhappy marriages.

While unwholesome actions produce unwholesome results - suffering, wholesome actions produce wholesome results - happiness. One can interpret wholesome actions in two ways. One can simply regard wholesome actions as avoiding the unwholesome actions, avoiding killing, stealing, sexual misconduct and the rest. Or one can speak of wholesome actions in positive terms. Here one can refer to the list of wholesome actions that includes generosity, good conduct, meditation, reverence, service, transference of merits, rejoicing in the merit of others, hearing the Dharma, teaching the Dharma and straightening of one’s own views. Just as unwholesome actions produce suffering, these wholesome actions produce benefits. Again effects here are similar to the actions. For example, generosity results in wealth. Hearing of the Dharma results in wisdom. The wholesome actions have as their consequences similar wholesome effects just as unwholesome actions have similar unwholesome effects.

Karma, be it wholesome or unwholesome, is modified by the conditions under which the actions are performed. In other words, a wholesome or unwholesome action may be more or less strong depending upon the conditions under which it is done. The conditions which determine the weight or strength of karma may be divided into those which refer to the subject — the doer of the action — and those which refer to the object — the being to whom the action is done. So the conditions that determine the weight of karma apply to the subject and object of the action. Specifically, if we take the example of killing, in order for the act of killing to have its complete and unmitigated power, five conditions must be present — a living being, the awareness of the existence of a living being, the intention to kill the living being, the effort or action of killing the living being, and the consequent death of the living being. Here too, we can see the subjective and the objective conditions. The subjective conditions are the awareness of the living being, the intention to kill and the action of killing. The objective conditions are the presence of the living being and the consequent death of the living being.

Similarly, there are five conditions that modify the weight of karma and they are persistent, repeated action; action done with great intention and determination; action done without regret; action done towards those who possess extraordinary qualities; and action done towards those who have benefited one in the past. Here too there are subjective and objective conditions. The subjective conditions are persistent action; action done with intention; and action done without regret. If one does an unwholesome action again and again with great intention and without regret, the weight of the action will be enhanced. The objective conditions are the quality of the object to whom actions are done and the nature of the relationship. In other words, if one does a wholesome or unwholesome action towards living beings who possess extraordinary qualities such as the arhats, or the Buddha, the wholesome or unwholesome action done will have greater weight. Finally the power of wholesome or unwholesome action done towards those who have benefited one in the past, such as one’s parents, teachers and friends, will be greater.

The objective and subjective conditions together determine the weight of karma. This is important because understanding this will help us to understand that karma is not simply a matter of black and white, or good and bad. Karma is moral action and moral responsibility. But the working of the Law of Karma is very finely tuned and balanced so as to match effect with cause, so as to take into account the subjective and objective conditions that determine the nature of an action. This ensures that the effects of actions are equal to and similar to the nature of the causes.

The effects of karma may be evident either in the short term or in the long term. Traditionally we divide karma into three varieties related to the amount of time that is required for the effects of these actions to manifest themselves. Karma can either manifest its effects in this very life or in the next life or only after several lives. When karma manifests its effects in this life, we can see the fruit of karma within a relatively short length of time. This variety of karma is easily verifiable by any of us. For instance, when someone refuses to study, when someone indulges in harmful distractions like alcohol and drugs, when someone begins to steal to support his harmful habits; the effects will be evident within a short time. They will be evident in loss of livelihood and friendship, health and so forth. We cannot see the long-term effect of karma, but the Buddha and His prominent disciples who have developed their minds are able to perceive directly the long-term effects. For instance, when Maudgalyayana was beaten to death by bandits, the Buddha was able to tell that this event was the effect of something Maudgalyayana had done in a previous life when he had taken his aged parents to the forest and having beaten them to death, had then reported that they had been killed by bandits. The effect of this unwholesome action done many lives before was manifested only in his last life. At death we have to leave everything behind — our property and our loved ones, but our karma will accompany us like a shadow. The Buddha has said that nowhere on earth or in heaven can one escape one’s karma. So when the conditions are correct, dependent upon mind and body, the effects of karma will manifest themselves just as dependent on certain conditions a mango will appear on a mango tree. We can see that even in the world of nature certain effects take longer to appear than others. If for instance, we plant the seed of a papaya, we will obtain the fruit in shorter period than if we plant the seed of a durian. Similarly, the effects of karma manifest either in the short term or in the long term.

Besides the two varieties of karma, wholesome and unwholesome karma, we should mention neutral or ineffective karma. Neutral karma is karma that has no moral consequence either because the very nature of the action is such as to have no moral consequence or because it is done involuntarily and unintentionally. For example, sleeping, walking, breathing, eating, handicraft and so forth in themselves have no moral consequence. Similarly, unintentional action is ineffective karma. In other words, if one accidentally steps on an insect, being unconscious of its existence, this also constitutes neutral karma because there is no intention - the intentional element is not there.

The benefits of understanding the Law of Karma are that this understanding discourages one from performing unwholesome actions which have suffering as their fruit. Once we understand that in our own life every action will have a similar and equal reaction, once we understand that we will experience the effect of that action, wholesome or unwholesome, we will refrain from unwholesome behavior, not wanting to experience the effects of these unwholesome actions. And similarly, understanding that wholesome actions have happiness as their fruit, we will cultivate these wholesome actions. Reflecting on the Law of Karma, of action and reaction in the moral sphere encourages us to renounce unwholesome actions and cultivate wholesome actions. We will look more closely at the specific effects of karma in future lives and how karma conditions and determines the nature of rebirth in our lecture next week.

Extract from "Fundamentals of Buddhism", by Dr. Peter Della Santina.
dreamer101
post Aug 15 2010, 09:54 PM

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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 15 2010, 09:34 PM)
Reincarnation
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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zstan,

In Zen Buddhism, re-incarnation, karma, and realms are IRRELEVANT.

To have NO ATTACHMENT, those thoughts do not exist. You do the BEST that you can. You should have NO THOUGHT and NO ATTACHMENT to the outcome. You do because you are here and you can.

Bodhi is not a tree.
The mirror has no stand.
If there is nothing here,
Where is the dust??

All is well....
- "The 3 Idiots"

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zstan
post Aug 15 2010, 09:58 PM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 15 2010, 09:54 PM)
zstan,

In Zen Buddhism, re-incarnation, karma, and realms are IRRELEVANT.

To have NO ATTACHMENT, those thoughts do not exist.  You do the BEST that you can.  You should have NO THOUGHT and NO ATTACHMENT to the outcome.  You do because you are here and you can.

Bodhi is not a tree.
The mirror has no stand.
If there is nothing here,
Where is the dust??

All is well....
- "The 3 Idiots"

Dreamer
*
this thread is a Buddhist thread. not a Zen Buddhist thread. Yes they may seem irrelevant to you, but other people find it relevant.

Just sharing some other aspects of Buddhism knowledge with people who wants to understand more about what is reincarnation. smile.gif
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post Aug 15 2010, 10:03 PM

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QUOTE(teongpeng @ Aug 15 2010, 10:37 AM)
]the difference is in the quality.
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Can you give some examples?
dreamer101
post Aug 15 2010, 10:07 PM

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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 15 2010, 09:58 PM)
this thread is a Buddhist thread. not a Zen Buddhist thread. Yes they may seem irrelevant to you, but other people find it relevant.

Just sharing some other aspects of Buddhism knowledge with people who wants to understand more about what is reincarnation.  smile.gif
*
zstan,

Ditto.

MY POINT is in certain school of Buddhism like Zen Buddhism, those concepts are not consider as ESSENTIAL to the teaching of Buddhism.

Dreamer
SpikeMarlene
post Aug 15 2010, 10:08 PM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 15 2010, 10:59 AM)
SpikeMarlene,

Zen is living life to the fullest.  What else is there besides living??

Every morning, I enjoy a good cup of coffee.  I take my effort to slowly sip and enjoy my coffee.  That is a form of meditation.  Doing thing as it is.  Only mindful of coffee and nothing else.  That is a simple joy for me.  What do you do for yourself everyday??

When I do something, I put my full concentration and effort in it.  I do the best that I could.  I focus on the moment.  That is living to the fullest.

Dreamer
*
That is not the meaning of living to the fullest. That is being aware of every single action in one's life, which I think is pretty stressful. Being aware is a good thing but being forcefully aware of every single action is hard and stressful. But why would I want to do that since living to the fullest means I enjoy my life to the fullest, of course within certain limits?
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post Aug 15 2010, 10:12 PM

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Buddhism-Major Differences


1. There is no almighty God in Buddhism. There is no one to hand out rewards or punishments on a supposedly Judgement Day.

2. Buddhism is strictly not a religion in the context of being a faith and worship owing allegiance to a supernatural being.

3. No saviour concept in Buddhism. A Buddha is not a saviour who saves others by his personal salvation. Although a Buddhist seeks refuge in the Buddha as his incomparable guide who indicates the path of purity, he makes no servile surrender. A Buddhist does not think that he can gain purity merely by seeking refuge in the Buddha or by mere faith in Him. It is not within the power of a Buddha to wash away the impurities of others

4. A Buddha is not an incarnation of a god/God (as claimed by some Hindu followers). The relationship between a Buddha and his disciples and followers is that of a teacher and student.

5. The liberation of self is the responsibility of one's own self. Buddhism does not call for an unquestionable blind faith by all Buddhist followers. It places heavy emphasis on self-reliance, self discipline and individual striving.

6. Taking refuge in The Triple Gems i.e. the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha; does not mean self-surrender or total reliance on an external force or third party for help or salvation.

7. Dharma (the teachings in Buddhism) exists regardless whether there is a Buddha. Sakyamuni Buddha (as the historical Buddha) discovered and shared the teachings/ universal truths with all sentient beings. He is neither the creator of such teachings nor the prophet of an almighty God to transmit such teachings to others.

8. Especially emphasized in Mahayana Buddhism, all sentient beings have Buddha Nature/ Essence. One can become a Buddha (a supreme enlightened being) in due course if one practises diligently and attains purity of mind (ie absolutely no delusions or afflictions).

9. In Buddhism, the ultimate objective of followers/practitioners is enlightenment and/or liberation from Samsara; rather than to go to a Heaven (or a deva realm in the context of Buddhist cosmology).

10. Karma and Karma Force are cornerstones in Buddhist doctrines. They are expounded very thoroughly in Buddhism. Karma refers to an important metaphysical concept concerned with action and its consequences. This law of karma explains the problem of sufferings, the mystery of the so-called fate and predestination of some religions, and above all the apparent inequality of mankind.

11. Rebirth is another key doctrine in Buddhism and it goes hand in hand with karma. There is a subtle difference between rebirth and reincarnation as expounded in Hinduism. Buddhism rejects the theory of a transmigrating permanent soul, whether created by a god or emanating from a divine essence.

12. Maitri or Metta in Pali (Loving Kindness) and Karuna (Compassion) to all living beings including animals. Buddhism strictly forbids animal sacrifice for whatever reason. Vegetarianism is recommended but not compulsory.

13. The importance of Non-attachment. Buddhism goes beyond doing good and being good. One must not be attached to good deeds or the idea of doing good; otherwise it is just another form of craving.

14. In Buddhism, there is consideration for all sentient beings (versus human beings, as in other religions). Buddhists acknowledge/accept the existence of animals and beings in other realms in Samsara.

15. No holy war concept in Buddhism. Killing is breaking a key moral precept in Buddhism. One is strictly forbidden to kill another person in the name of religion, a religious leader or whatsoever religious pretext or worldly excuse.

16. Suffering is another cornerstone in Buddhism. It is the first of the Four Noble Truths. Sufferings are very well analysed and explained in Buddhism.

17. The idea of sin or original sin has no place in Buddhism. Also, sin should not be equated to suffering.

18. Buddhist teachings expound no beginning and no end to one's existence or life. There is virtually no recognition of a first cause — e.g. how does human existence first come about?

19. The Dharma provides a very detailed explanation of the doctrine of anatman {anatta in Pali} or soullessness , i.e. there is no soul entity (whether in one life of many lives).

20. The Buddha is omniscient but he is not omnipotent. He is capable of innumerable feats but there are three things he cannot do. Also, a Buddha does not claim to be a creator of lives or the Universe.

21. Prajna [Panna in Pali] or Transcendent Wisdom occupies a paramount position in Buddhist teachings. Sakyamuni Buddha expounded Prajna concepts for some 20 years of his ministry. One is taught to balance compassion with prajna i.e.emotion (faith) with rationale (right understanding / truth / logic).

22. The tradition and practice of meditation in Buddhism are relatively important and strong. While all religions teach some forms or variations of stabilising/single-pointedness meditation, only Buddhism emphazises Vipassana (Insight) meditation as a powerful tool to assist one in seeking liberation/enlightenment.

23. The doctrine of Sunyata or Emptiness is unique to Buddhism and its many aspects are well expounded in advanced Buddhist teachings. Briefly, this doctrine asserts the transcendental nature of Ultimate Reality. It declares the phenomenal world to be void of all limitations of particularization and that all concepts of dualism are abolished.

24. Conditioned Arising [Paticcasamuppada in Pali] or Dependent Origination is another key doctrine in Buddhism. This doctrine explains that all psychological and physical phenomena constituting individual existence are interdependent and mutually condition each other; this at the same time describes what entangles sentient beings in samsara.

25. The concept of Hell(s) in Buddhism is very different from that of other religions. It is not a place for eternal damnation as viewed by 'almighty creator' religions. In Buddhism, it is just one of the six realms in Samsara [i.e. the worst of three undesirable realms]. Also, there are virtually unlimited number of hells in the Buddhist cosmology as there are infinite number of Buddha worlds.

26. The Buddhist cosmology (or universe) is distinctly different from that of other religions which usually recognise only this solar system (Earth) as the centre of the Universe and the only planet with living beings. The Buddhist viewpoint of a Buddha world (also known as Three Thousand-Fold World System) is that of one billion solar systems. Besides, the Mahayana Buddhist doctrines expound that there are other contemporary Buddha worlds like Amitabha's Pure Land and Bhaisajyaguru's world system.

27. Samsara is a fundamental concept in Buddhism and it is simply the 'perpetual cycles of existence' or endless rounds of rebirth among the six realms of existence. This cyclical rebirth pattern will only end when a sentient being attains Nirvana, i.e. virtual exhaustion of karma, habitual traces, defilements and delusions. All other religions preach one heaven, one earth and one hell, but this perspective is very limited compared with Buddhist samsara where heaven is just one of the six realms of existence and it has 28 levels/planes.

[ Compiled by Tan Swee Eng]
SpikeMarlene
post Aug 15 2010, 10:13 PM

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QUOTE(teongpeng @ Aug 15 2010, 11:07 AM)
for a person is who blind since birth...and only ever communicate with other blind-since-birth people, vision would be supernatural.
What would a blind person see? By saying something unknown and that explains supernatural (another unknown), what are you trying to explain?
QUOTE(teongpeng @ Aug 15 2010, 11:07 AM)

Added on August 15, 2010, 11:09 amthats when ones judgement is put to the test. sleep.gif

all buddhist practise are based on this principle, that one can actually experience it for themselves (after some training).
*
The important point here is I can demonstrate my driving to you. Why? Because driving is a natural thing. How would that apply for a supernatural experience?
dreamer101
post Aug 15 2010, 10:14 PM

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QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Aug 15 2010, 10:03 PM)
Can you give some examples?
*
SpikeMarlene,

Do you drink coffee??

The next time that you drink coffee, you focus on drinking coffee and tasting the coffee. Do nothing else and think of nothing else. Does the coffee tastes a lot better?? Why??

The coffee did not change. But, YOUR EXPERIENCE in drinking the coffee is better. Hence, the QUALITY of YOUR EXPERIENCE in drinking coffee is better.

Dreamer

soul2soul
post Aug 15 2010, 10:23 PM

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On the other hand, there are other schools of thought, for example Theravada which places a lot of emphasis on what the Buddha actually taught, or the type of buddhism that was practiced 2500 years ago when the Buddha himself walked the earth.

For example, Buddha's daily routine from dawn to night, his alms round in the morning where a group of monks would follow him to the town to get food/medicine, and the recorded discourses of him teaching to the people there.


dreamer101
post Aug 15 2010, 10:23 PM

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QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Aug 15 2010, 10:08 PM)
That is not the meaning of living to the fullest. That is being aware of every single action in one's life, which I think is pretty stressful. Being ainware is a good thing but being forcefully aware of every single action is hard and stressful. But why would I want to do that sce living to the fullest means I enjoy my life to the fullest, of course within certain limits?
*
SpikeMarlene,

<<pretty stressful.>>

Why??

When I drink my coffee, I want to be aware of the FULL RANGE of taste of the coffee. That is JOYFUL.

LIVING is joyful. Being aware just give you a fuller experience.

<<forcefully aware>>

Why does it has to be forcefully aware??

What if that is the NATURAL state of human being to begin with?? It is US that make us into unnatural state of ignorant.

Just watch some babies and toddlers play. All things new are fun to them. They are AWARE of their actions. There are all JOYFUL to them.

<<sce living to the fullest means I enjoy my life to the fullest>>

If you are drinking a cup of coffee while thinking and doing a million other things, how could you enjoy the coffee??

Dreamer

SpikeMarlene,

A story on stress.

Once upon a time, I work for a company that had major lay off every 3 months. This lasted many years. Over the last few years, I work for companies that have major lay off every year. I do not feel stress and it is not too bad for me. Meanwhile, for people that do not experience quarterly lay off like I do, this is a major source of stress for them.

What is the DIFFERENCE?? EXPECTATION. I expected quarterly lay off and now it is once a year. So, it is NOT too bad. Others do not expect layoff for many years. But, now, it is once a year. It is BAD.

Who set the EXPECTATION?? We do. The source of STRESS are within US.

I can tell you all those things but until you had experienced it and survived them, you do not really know what you will do under those circumstances.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Aug 15 2010, 10:42 PM
teongpeng
post Aug 15 2010, 11:02 PM

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QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Aug 15 2010, 10:13 PM)
What would a blind person see? By saying something unknown and that explains supernatural (another unknown), what are you trying to explain?
you're too dense to understand that something is only supernatural to you because it is unknown to you. and according to you something unknown cannot be possible, thus when something unknown is taught by buddhism...it tarnish the image of the entire teaching. bodoh kan?
QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Aug 15 2010, 10:13 PM)
The important point here is I can demonstrate my driving to you. Why? Because driving is a natural thing. How would that apply for a supernatural experience?
*
doh.gif
driving is a natural thing to those who know how to drive. just like supernatural experiences are indeed natural to those who know about them.
geeez dude....can u please dont polute a good thread with more dumbass questions?

Now...if we could ignore spikemarlene and his stupid gang of naysayers for a while...i would like to learn a little about dreamer101's approach to zen buddhism and compare it with the more traditional theravada buddhism practised locally. smile.gif

This post has been edited by teongpeng: Aug 15 2010, 11:08 PM
dreamer101
post Aug 15 2010, 11:20 PM

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QUOTE(teongpeng @ Aug 15 2010, 11:02 PM)
if we could ignore spikemarlene and his stupid gang of naysayers for a while...i would like to learn a little about dreamer101's approach to zen buddhism and compare it with the more traditional theravada buddhism practised locally.  smile.gif
*
teongpeng,

Zen Buddhism started in China as an integration of Buddhism and Taoism. It is a BACK to BASIC of Buddhism.

This is the poem that started the whole thing.

Bodhi is not a tree.
The mirror has no stand.
If there is nothing here,
Where is the dust??

The GOAL or FUNDAMENTAL of Buddhism is that OUR ATTACHMENT cause our suffering. We refuse to accept the REALITY of impermanence.

Zen believes that the THOUGHT / MIND itself is a form of attachment. When we do something and expect certain kind of outcome, our EXPECTATION is a form of attachment. Hence, we suffer.

Taoism destroys DUALITY. There are no good or bad. The world are ever changing and inter-play of Ying and Yang. Hence, the ONLY expectation that we can have is it will change. Aka, impermanence.

Now, if you are in Zen, all is well. You have NO EXPECTATION. You do what you can and you go with the flow. So, where is the ATTACHMENT?? Where is the suffering??

It is an attitude and mind set to life. By destroying DUALITY and EXPECTATION, we destroy ATTACHMENT. We just LIVE as it is. Back to the basic, live like a baby. Just play... Everything is fun and exciting.... Life is just a game. Play hard. Enjoy it.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Aug 15 2010, 11:21 PM
unknown warrior
post Aug 16 2010, 12:22 AM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 15 2010, 09:12 PM)
unknown warrior,

The right word is I feel sorry for you.  But, that is your life and your choice.

Dreamer

P.S.:  My Christian friends are learning Hebrew in order to read "Dead Sea Scroll" directly.  They are working very hard to get as pure and accurate meaning in bible.

P.S.2.:  I am Zen Buddhist.  I do not even believe in reading Sutras.


*
Why you want to feel sorry for me? lol. I don't even know why you're so upset.
entryman
post Aug 16 2010, 12:24 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Aug 16 2010, 12:22 AM)
Why you want to feel sorry for me? lol. I don't even know why you're so upset.
*
Feel sorry can just be a word out of courtesy.

Or real emotions emanating from true love for humankind.
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post Aug 16 2010, 04:27 AM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 15 2010, 11:20 PM)

Bodhi is not a tree.
The mirror has no stand.
If there is nothing here,
Where is the dust??

*
lulz.. this poem is from kungfu novel Buddha's Palm level 8.. sound so weird in direct translation...

This post has been edited by randyhow: Aug 16 2010, 04:27 AM
dreamer101
post Aug 16 2010, 04:33 AM

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QUOTE(randyhow @ Aug 16 2010, 04:27 AM)
lulz.. this poem is from kungfu novel Buddha's Palm level 8.. sound so weird in direct translation...
*
randyhow,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huineng

Bodhi originally has no tree.
The bright mirror also has no stand.
Fundamentally there is not a single thing.
Where could dust arise?

菩提本無樹,
明鏡亦非台;
本來無一物,
何處惹塵埃?

No, it originated from Huineng. Huineng is the Sixth and Last Patriarch of Chán Buddhism.

Dreamer
SpikeMarlene
post Aug 16 2010, 11:15 AM

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QUOTE(teongpeng @ Aug 15 2010, 11:02 PM)
you're too dense to understand that something is only supernatural to you because it is unknown to you. and according to you something unknown cannot be possible, thus when something unknown is taught by buddhism...it tarnish the image of the entire teaching. bodoh kan?
In other words you cannot explain what it is you are talking about. It is true because I said so, right?
QUOTE(teongpeng @ Aug 15 2010, 11:02 PM)
driving is a natural thing to those who know how to drive. just like supernatural experiences are indeed natural to those who know about them.
geeez dude....can u please dont polute a good thread with more dumbass questions?
*
Here again you claim supernatural experiences are natural only to those who know them, so your argument is basically this. I cannot explain or describe it to you but it's true. Believe me. That line of reasoning has been used ad nausem. You are not spiritually attuned, you would not be able to see the invisible unicorn.


Added on August 16, 2010, 11:42 am
QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 15 2010, 10:23 PM)
SpikeMarlene,

<<pretty stressful.>>

Why??

When I drink my coffee, I want to be aware of the FULL RANGE of taste of the coffee.  That is JOYFUL.

LIVING is joyful.  Being aware just give you a fuller experience.

<<forcefully aware>>

Why does it has to be forcefully aware??

What if that is the NATURAL state of human being to begin with?? It is US that make us into unnatural state of ignorant.

Just watch some babies and toddlers play.  All things new are fun to them.  They are AWARE of their actions.  There are all JOYFUL to them.

<<sce living to the fullest means I enjoy my life to the fullest>>

If you are drinking a cup of coffee while thinking and doing a million other things, how could you enjoy the coffee??
I disagree. I enjoy my coffee while having a light conversation with my friend. Or reading the newspaper. Or casually looking into the distance while taking nice slow sips. To me by not being fully aware at that spilt second moment is joyful. I am not sure if you are conflating the issue of not being aware at all, like a person lost in a fantasy, to that of casual awareness which to me is sufficient to enjoy life to the fullest. Since this is quite subjective, I think it will be hard for everyone to agree that being fully aware at every moment is joyful. Again that is subjective what is meant by full and complete awareness.

But here I feel that somehow, there is a necessity for zen practitioner to be fully aware. Why is that? What is the benefit to be fully aware when I can enjoy my life by being casually aware. Well I can raise my awareness depends on the circumstances, like when I feel there is a thief in the house and I am creeping towards the source of the noise.
QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 15 2010, 10:23 PM)
SpikeMarlene,

A story on stress.

Once upon a time, I work for a company that had major lay off every 3 months.  This lasted many years.  Over the last few years, I work for companies that have major lay off every year.  I do not feel stress and it is not too bad for me.  Meanwhile, for people that do not experience quarterly lay off like I do, this is a major source of stress for them.

What is the DIFFERENCE?? EXPECTATION.  I expected quarterly lay off and now it is once a year.  So, it is NOT too bad.  Others do not expect layoff for many years.  But, now, it is once a year.  It is BAD.

Who set the EXPECTATION?? We do.  The source of STRESS are within US.

I can tell you all those things but until you had experienced it and survived them, you do not really know what you will do under those circumstances.

Dreamer
*
I have been to many meditation camps and I know (and also from talking to other practitioners at that time) it was quite stressful to silent one's mind and focus it to what is now.

This post has been edited by SpikeMarlene: Aug 16 2010, 11:42 AM
ray123
post Aug 16 2010, 01:50 PM

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QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Aug 16 2010, 11:15 AM)
In other words you cannot explain what it is you are talking about. It is true because I said so, right?
*
I don't follow nor agree with everything in the thread but I'm just reminded of the quote:

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Carl Sagan
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post Aug 16 2010, 03:49 PM

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QUOTE(ray123 @ Aug 16 2010, 01:50 PM)
I don't follow nor agree with everything in the thread but I'm just reminded of the quote:

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Carl Sagan
*
I would somewhat disagree with carl sagan. Why? Absence of evidence is evidence of absence when you are expecting it. If you would apply this quote on something that is completely unknown, which you cannot anticipate the outcome from absence of evidence, then it is reasonable to say we do not know what this means, hence we cannot rule out it's existence.

However for example, a suspect was found bleeding with cut wound on his finger and he was accused of fighting with the victim which he denied. You expect to find traces of the suspect's blood at the crime scene and on the victim's bloodied clothing but you found none that belongs to the suspect. In this case absence of evidence is evidence of absence when you are expecting it.
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post Aug 16 2010, 04:01 PM

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QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Aug 16 2010, 03:49 PM)
I would somewhat disagree with carl sagan. Why? Absence of evidence is evidence of absence when you are expecting it. If you would apply this quote on something that is completely unknown, which you cannot anticipate the outcome from absence of evidence, then it is reasonable to say we do not know what this means, hence we cannot rule out it's existence.

However for example, a suspect was found bleeding with cut wound on his finger and he was accused of fighting with the victim which he denied. You expect to find traces of the suspect's blood at the crime scene and on the victim's bloodied clothing but you found none that belongs to the suspect. In this case absence of evidence is evidence of absence when you are expecting it.
*
But according to your example, wouldn't it also mean that the suspect may have cleaned all his traces to avoid suspicion?

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post Aug 16 2010, 04:42 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Aug 16 2010, 04:01 PM)
But according to your example, wouldn't it also mean that the suspect may have cleaned all his traces to avoid suspicion?
*
Yes, but how do you know? What do you expect to find to prove your suspicion is valid? If you cannot find it what should you conclude?
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post Aug 16 2010, 04:47 PM

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QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Aug 16 2010, 04:42 PM)
Yes, but how do you know? What do you expect to find to prove your suspicion is valid? If you cannot find it what should you conclude?
*
But that's the reason why there are criminal experts like the CSI right? The point is not to ASSUME that there's no evidence. It simply means that the absence of evidence is as good as the concealment of evidence.
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post Aug 16 2010, 05:57 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Aug 16 2010, 04:47 PM)
But that's the reason why there are criminal experts like the CSI right? The point is not to ASSUME that there's no evidence. It simply means that the absence of evidence is as good as the concealment of evidence.
*
So what would the CSI conclude? That he is still guilty because they suspect he is hiding some evidence? If you expect the evidence to be there but you cannot find, what can you conclude? On top of that how do you know your suspicion is correct, that he is hiding evidence. You don't know, so as far as we are concern, as long as there is an absence of evidence, it is the evidence of absence when you expect it. Of course this is an example in principle of how investigation of reality proceeds and science does it a lot better because science can take it's time to grill the suspect to death and test it hundreds of times to make sure it is correct.
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post Aug 16 2010, 06:33 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 15 2010, 01:14 PM)
Firstly, this thread was started to talk about the previous thread in /k/ that was deleted.  Then it was bumped into RWI and then changed to be a thread on Buddhism.   
nod.gif

Yes, this thread should be for Buddhists and those interested in Buddhism to discuss.  Lets not argue.  Those who exist in the forum just to argue, could you please take it elsewhere? 


Thank you.
*
Then why should this thread be in RWI?

Why not in Kopitiam as those in Christian and Islam thread? There, all trollers get reported and the trolling posts gets removed.
But here i see so many arguments and stuffs, shouldnt it be in All About Religion thread?

This buddhist thread ought to be for buddhists to gather and for others to get to know buddhism, but all i've seen here between SPikemarlene, teongpeng, unknown warrior, dreamer101 etc are all debating!

Why cant this thread be moved to kopitiam?
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post Aug 16 2010, 06:35 PM

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QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Aug 16 2010, 05:57 PM)
So what would the CSI conclude? That he is still guilty because they suspect he is hiding some evidence? If you expect the evidence to be there but you cannot find, what can you conclude? On top of that how do you know your suspicion is correct, that he is hiding evidence. You don't know, so as far as we are concern, as long as there is an absence of evidence, it is the evidence of absence when you expect it. Of course this is an example in principle of how investigation of reality proceeds and science does it a lot better because science can take it's time to grill the suspect to death and test it hundreds of times to make sure it is correct.
*
Exactly why the investigation has to take place you see. Back in the days when there is no intellect to trace down evidence hidden by criminals, people simply assume that the crime simply has no evidence at all to take place.

But what happened now? Why is there a need to look for truth, that there ARE actually many cases of criminals being smart enough to hide traces of evidences? Have you heard how old, closed cases can be reopened because someone manages to find out the evidence that people didn't use to find?

And it is because of those incidents, people realized that the absence of evidence, is really not the evidence of absence. The idea is not to jump into conclusion without knowledge, it is to investigate for hidden evidences because THEY CAN BE HIDDEN.

QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 10 2010, 06:27 PM)
Ironically, Buddhism can be considered a way of life and not a religion.  smile.gif 

So technically a way of life thread can exist in /k/.
*
Wouldn't that make Buddhism similar to atheism? Atheist too, is not a religion, and they have their own way of lives too.

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Aug 16 2010, 06:41 PM
ayamkambing
post Aug 16 2010, 06:42 PM

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Reported this thread for mods to take action.

I dont see a purpose of this thread as its a duplicate of All About Religion thread.

You fellas should stop debating.

All religions are bollocks. tongue.gif
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post Aug 16 2010, 06:42 PM

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QUOTE(ayamkambing @ Aug 16 2010, 06:42 PM)
Reported this thread for mods to take action.

I dont see a purpose of this thread as its a duplicate of All About Religion thread.

You fellas should stop debating.

All religions are bollocks.  tongue.gif
*
But then Buddhism isn't really a religion right?
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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Aug 16 2010, 06:42 PM)
But then Buddhism isn't really a religion right?
*
If this is a GROUP thread, then it should be to GROUP people who call themselves as Buddhists, regardless if its anything to do with religion or not.

The thread titled LYN BUDDHISM RETREAT....now why the word "RETREAT" is being there?

for you bollocks to debate about what buddhism really is, or for buddhists to lounge and hang out?

you trollers pls take your debates elsewhere.
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post Aug 16 2010, 06:47 PM

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QUOTE(ayamkambing @ Aug 16 2010, 06:45 PM)
If this is a GROUP thread, then it should be to GROUP people who call themselves as Buddhists, regardless if its anything to do with religion or not.

The thread titled LYN BUDDHISM RETREAT....now why the word "RETREAT" is being there?

for you bollocks to debate about what buddhism really is, or for buddhists to lounge and hang out?

you trollers pls take your debates elsewhere.
*
But like you asked earlier, why should it be in RWI in the first place, right? Shouldn't it be a Kopitiam thread then?

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Aug 16 2010, 06:47 PM
dreamer101
post Aug 16 2010, 06:50 PM

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QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Aug 16 2010, 11:15 AM)



Added on August 16, 2010, 11:42 am
I disagree. I enjoy my coffee while having a light conversation with my friend. Or reading the newspaper. Or casually looking into the distance while taking nice slow sips. To me by not being fully aware at that spilt second moment is joyful. I am not sure if you are conflating the issue of not being aware at all, like a person lost in a fantasy, to that of casual awareness which to me is sufficient to enjoy life to the fullest. Since this is quite subjective, I think it will be hard for everyone to agree that being fully aware at every moment is joyful. Again that is subjective what is meant by full and complete awareness.

But here I feel that somehow, there is a necessity for zen practitioner to be fully aware. Why is that? What is the benefit to be fully aware when I can enjoy my life by being casually aware. Well I can raise my awareness depends on the circumstances, like when I feel there is a thief in the house and I am creeping towards the source of the noise. 

I have been to many meditation camps and I know (and also from talking to other practitioners at that time) it was quite stressful to silent one's mind and focus it to what is now.
*
SpikeMarlene,

To you, not being focus is YOUR HABIT. Hence, it is STRESSFUL for you to focus on ONE THING only.

Ditto, for people that TREAT meditation as an out of ordinary thing.

But, as we had said again and before, there are MANY PATHS to enlightenment, choose what works for you...

<<What is the benefit to be fully aware when I can enjoy my life by being casually aware.>>

There are multiple stages. MINDFULNESS is just stage one. MINDLESSNESS is the stage 2.

Now, the question is have you try being fully aware and whether the quality of life is better for you by doing that??

The GOAL of Zen is to form and integrate meditation into daily life. Aka, a habit.

Now, I am slightly AUTISTIC. For me, FOCUS is my natural state. I can multitask but that is NOT NATURAL for me. Hence, it is STRESSFUL for me.

Dreamer
Instant_noodle
post Aug 16 2010, 07:00 PM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Aug 16 2010, 06:47 PM)
But like you asked earlier, why should it be in RWI in the first place, right? Shouldn't it be a Kopitiam thread then?
*

would it be the reason that mods decided whut some minister said is true and deleted the thread becoz 'it's established in certain time, so it can't be abolished' and the previous thread somehow created late and... got removed?? yes, i'm bloody mocking that air-headed minister

seeing certain people dun understand the meaning of 'the end is not important, it's the journey that u made to reach there that counts' and started trolling arguing with their nonsense just kills the joy of reading this thread... there's no point arguing with people who just wants to win an argument

just declare him the winner and let him enjoy the gentle stroke (by himself) his ep33n, so we can end this bullock and continue with our regular program!!!
unknown warrior
post Aug 16 2010, 07:45 PM

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QUOTE(ayamkambing @ Aug 16 2010, 06:33 PM)
Then why should this thread be in RWI?

Why not in Kopitiam as those in Christian and Islam thread? There, all trollers get reported and the trolling posts gets removed.
But here i see so many arguments and stuffs, shouldnt it be in All About Religion thread?

This buddhist thread ought to be for buddhists to gather and for others to get to know buddhism, but all i've seen here between SPikemarlene, teongpeng, unknown warrior, dreamer101 etc are all debating!

Why cant this thread be moved to kopitiam?
*
Hello I'm not even debating anything, I was doing defensive driving.
ayamkambing
post Aug 16 2010, 08:01 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Aug 16 2010, 07:45 PM)
Hello I'm not even debating anything, I was doing defensive driving.
*
You should not even be in this thread.

Religion sucks. Avoid at all costs
teongpeng
post Aug 16 2010, 08:34 PM

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QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Aug 16 2010, 11:15 AM)
In other words you cannot explain what it is you are talking about. It is true because I said so, right?
what nonsense is this? i already explained to you...but its not my fault you're too densed to understand. and again u say i didnt explain...here have a facepalm. doh.gif
QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Aug 16 2010, 11:15 AM)
Here again you claim supernatural experiences are natural only to those who know them, so your argument is basically this. I cannot explain or describe it to you but it's true. Believe me. That line of reasoning has been used ad nausem. You are not spiritually attuned, you would not be able to see the invisible unicorn.
wookey... rolleyes.gif swoosh
no one ask u to believe also, mr troll. You've demonstrated your imbecility for all to see if u cant understand a simple anoalogy : something is only supoernatural to those who dont know, to those who does, its natural. By the way we're not interested in spiritual unicorns in a buddhist thread. Show some class...and get lost.

PS:threads always turn stupid wherever spikemarlene start participating. thats supernatural right there.. laugh.gif

This post has been edited by teongpeng: Aug 16 2010, 08:41 PM
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 16 2010, 10:58 PM

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QUOTE(ayamkambing @ Aug 16 2010, 06:33 PM)
Then why should this thread be in RWI?

Why not in Kopitiam as those in Christian and Islam thread? There, all trollers get reported and the trolling posts gets removed.
But here i see so many arguments and stuffs, shouldnt it be in All About Religion thread?

This buddhist thread ought to be for buddhists to gather and for others to get to know buddhism, but all i've seen here between SPikemarlene, teongpeng, unknown warrior, dreamer101 etc are all debating!

Why cant this thread be moved to kopitiam?
*
Why are you even asking me? smile.gif

This thread was originally in kopitiam but the mods decided to move it here. I don't know why but they probably had a very good reason for that.

I don't really mind where it ends up as long the thread can continue to exist. Let this thread be for Buddhists to discuss about Buddhism.

I am urging all those who want a comparative discussion about Buddhism with other religions as well as atheism to please take it elsewhere.

Thank you.


ayamkambing
post Aug 16 2010, 11:49 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 16 2010, 10:58 PM)
Why are you even asking me?  smile.gif 

This thread was originally in kopitiam but the mods decided to move it here.  I don't know why but they probably had a very good reason for that. 

I don't really mind where it ends up as long the thread can continue to exist.  Let this thread be for Buddhists to discuss about Buddhism. 

I am urging all those who want a comparative discussion about Buddhism with other religions as well as atheism to please take it elsewhere.     

Thank you.
*
The thing is, if its a thread to discuss on buddhism is in RWI, shouldnt there be threads to discuss on other religious/philosophical stuffs too? blink.gif
ray123
post Aug 17 2010, 12:23 AM

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QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Aug 16 2010, 03:49 PM)
I would somewhat disagree with carl sagan. Why? Absence of evidence is evidence of absence when you are expecting it. If you would apply this quote on something that is completely unknown, which you cannot anticipate the outcome from absence of evidence, then it is reasonable to say we do not know what this means, hence we cannot rule out it's existence.
*
You are not supposed to be expecting it in the first place to do a unbiased judgment.

I have the examples in my head right now but I can't really articulate it in words across the internet. Hope the following link sheds more light on the quote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absence_of_evidence


zstan
post Aug 17 2010, 12:34 AM

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QUOTE(ayamkambing @ Aug 16 2010, 11:49 PM)
The thing is, if its a thread to discuss on buddhism is in RWI, shouldnt there be threads to discuss on other religious/philosophical stuffs too?  blink.gif
*
you have to ask mods for that.

unfortunately trolls seem to prefer to spoil the Buddhist thread compared to christian n muslim threads at the kopitiam section.

hence it was moved here~
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 17 2010, 12:43 AM

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QUOTE(ayamkambing @ Aug 16 2010, 11:49 PM)
The thing is, if its a thread to discuss on buddhism is in RWI, shouldnt there be threads to discuss on other religious/philosophical stuffs too?  blink.gif
*
Go ask the mods. I hope you don't lose any sleep over all this. smile.gif



ayamkambing
post Aug 17 2010, 01:38 AM

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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 17 2010, 12:34 AM)
you have to ask mods for that.

unfortunately trolls seem to prefer to spoil the Buddhist thread compared to christian n muslim threads at the kopitiam section.

hence it was moved here~
*
QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 17 2010, 12:43 AM)
Go ask the mods.  I hope you don't lose any sleep over all this.  smile.gif
*
Well, i see how ineffective REPORT button has become. Why they are so biased towards Buddhism?

Does this also mean that buddhists and non-buddhists can banter and chat and even organize meetups and events using this thread even if its in RWI?

I've reported this thread. No news from the 3 mods in charge of RWI. Probably they are looking for feedbacks.

Ahwang should be responsible more on kopitiam since he's a staff there.
zstan
post Aug 17 2010, 09:29 AM

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QUOTE(ayamkambing @ Aug 17 2010, 01:38 AM)
Well, i see how ineffective REPORT button has become. Why they are so biased towards Buddhism?

Does this also mean that buddhists and non-buddhists can banter and chat and even organize meetups and events using this thread even if its in RWI?

I've reported this thread. No news from the 3 mods in charge of RWI. Probably they are looking for feedbacks.

Ahwang should be responsible more on kopitiam since he's a staff there.
*
i thought a staff oversees the whole forum? they are the global moderators to begin with.

i'm still curious who moved this thread here in the first place, and why.

no proper explanation was given and one fine day it just popped up in RWI. hmm.gif
soul2soul
post Aug 17 2010, 10:01 AM

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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 17 2010, 09:29 AM)
i thought a staff oversees the whole forum? they are the global moderators to begin with.

i'm still curious who moved this thread here in the first place, and why.

no proper explanation was given and one fine day it just popped up in RWI.  hmm.gif
*
Just ignore the trolls. It's really the best treatment for them you know.

Anyway, I would recommend a good book on the Buddha's great disciples, not very much known outside the conservative orthodox Theravada teachings.

Buddha has 2 chief disciples and 1 attendant, as it was recorded that all buddhas in the past had, and future buddhas will have too.


1. Venerable Sariputta - Marshal of the Dhamma. Foremost in wisdom (panna) and analytical knowledge. The Buddha had acknowledged that Ven Sariputta also turned the wheel of the Dhamma as the Buddha did. Also known as the Elder in the Sangha. He attained Parinibbana just 3 months before the Buddha did. His last convert was his own mother.

2. Venerable Mahamoganalla - Master of Psychic powers. 2nd chief disciple with mastery in all forms of psychic abilities. Also known as Iddhi-powers. His various feats were recorded in the Sutta, among them subduing the mighty Naga that attacked the Buddha, confronting the Arch-Demon Mara who tried to sicken him, visited the various gods in the heavens to preach the dhamma.

This ability of him proved to be also the cause of envy among many ascetics, who eventually hired some bandits to terminate his life. Ven Mahamoganalla, due to his past kamma of harming his both parents (in very distant past), lost control of his own powers towards the end and had his own bone being broken and bludgeoned to death by the bandits. This serves as a great reminder that psychic powers cannot overcome Kamma.

3. Venerable Ananda - Buddha's cousin, who attended to the Buddha, and had excellent memory. Most of the Suttas were recited by him , and approved by other Arahants at the first buddhist council as being authentic and were words of the buddha , held 100 days after the Buddha passed away.

4. Ven Mahakasappa
5. Ven Anuruddha
zstan
post Aug 17 2010, 10:52 AM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 17 2010, 10:01 AM)
Just ignore the trolls. It's really the best treatment for them you know.

Anyway, I would recommend a good book on the Buddha's great disciples, not very much known outside the conservative orthodox Theravada teachings.

Buddha has 2 chief disciples and 1 attendant, as it was recorded that all buddhas in the past had, and future buddhas will have too.
1. Venerable Sariputta - Marshal of the Dhamma. Foremost in wisdom (panna) and analytical knowledge. The Buddha had acknowledged that Ven Sariputta also turned the wheel of the Dhamma as the Buddha did. Also known as the Elder in the Sangha. He attained Parinibbana just 3 months before the Buddha did.  His last convert was his own  mother.

2. Venerable Mahamoganalla - Master of Psychic powers. 2nd chief disciple with mastery in all forms of psychic abilities. Also known as Iddhi-powers. His various feats were recorded in the Sutta, among them subduing the mighty Naga that attacked the Buddha, confronting the Arch-Demon Mara who tried to sicken him, visited the various gods in the heavens to preach the dhamma.

This ability of him proved to be also the cause of envy among many ascetics, who eventually hired some bandits to terminate his life. Ven Mahamoganalla, due to his past kamma of harming his both parents (in very distant past), lost control of his own powers towards the end and had his own bone being broken and bludgeoned to death by the bandits.  This serves as a great reminder that psychic powers cannot overcome Kamma.

3. Venerable Ananda - Buddha's cousin, who attended to the Buddha, and had excellent memory. Most of the Suttas were recited by him , and approved by other Arahants at the first buddhist council as being authentic and were words of the buddha , held 100 days after the Buddha passed away.

4. Ven Mahakasappa
5. Ven Anuruddha
*
was Venerable Mahamoganalla the one who sent food to his mother in hell? didn't realised he died such a horrible death.

my question is, to those bandits who hurt him, will Kamma get back to them too? hmm.gif
Joey-kun
post Aug 17 2010, 10:59 AM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 17 2010, 10:52 AM)
was Venerable Mahamoganalla the one who sent food to his mother in hell? didn't realised he died such a horrible death.

my question is, to those bandits who hurt him, will Kamma get back to them too?  hmm.gif
*
yes the bandits will get karma back, but Moganalla killed his parents in his previous life by beating them to death, and not only in that last life of his that he died that way but in many previous lives as well.

That is the nature of Karma.

1. Karma is definite in that virtuous actions lead to happiness and non-virtuous to suffering.
2. Karmic imprints increase; the result is greater than the cause.
3. One will never experience a karmic result one did not create the cause for.
4. Karmic causes created are never lost.

So thats why we be very careful of the actions due to the nature of its reprecussion. It does not exhaust itself when it ripens.
soul2soul
post Aug 17 2010, 11:08 AM

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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 17 2010, 10:52 AM)
was Venerable Mahamoganalla the one who sent food to his mother in hell? didn't realised he died such a horrible death.

my question is, to those bandits who hurt him, will Kamma get back to them too?  hmm.gif
*
Ven Mahamoganalla was known to visit many beings in Hells and heavens too. Not sure about the story of sending food to his mother. AFAIK , the beings in hell don't have time to even eat.....

He knew the bandits wanted to kill him but he used his powers to make himself become invisible to them , not to avoid his own death (as arahants don't have fear of death) but to try to help the bandits to avert a terrible kamma they were going to commit (by murdering an arahant).

But towards the end, he lost control of his body when his past kamma interrupted his concentration and was finally revealed to the bandits. So.. he was hacked to death, bones broken to pieces according to the records in the sutta.

The monks later asked the Buddha why Ven Mahamoganally suffered such a terrible death, and the Buddha told them that Ven Mahamoganalla had killed his parents in his past lives, and as a result of that he went to hell and suffered for a very long time, later he emerged as humans and in 7 lifetimes, he was bludgeoned to death. And that kamma also not finished .. until it caused Moganalla to die that way in his last life too.

Of course, for those bandits who killed him, already commit a serious kamma which will definitely land them in Hells after their own death. There are 5 types of heavy evil kamma listed
1. harm buddha
2. kill arahants
3. kill mother
4. kill father
5. cause division in sangha

These kamma will definitely appear at the mind-door of the dying person. That is to say, Hell existence is a 100% certainty for people who committed such crimes. People who commit such crimes also cannot become enlightened in that life, even if they have the ability to do so due to their past cultivation. Such individuals are said to be covered with the veil of evil kamma.

So.. be nice to our parents... got lot of blessings....can go heaven one u know...


Added on August 17, 2010, 11:10 am
QUOTE(Joey-kun @ Aug 17 2010, 10:59 AM)
yes the bandits will get karma back, but Moganalla killed his parents in his previous life by beating them  to death, and not only in that last life of his that he died that way but in many previous lives as well.

That is the nature of Karma.

1. Karma is definite in that virtuous actions lead to happiness and non-virtuous to suffering.
2. Karmic imprints increase; the result is greater than the cause.
3. One will never experience a karmic result one did not create the cause for.
4. Karmic causes created are never lost.

So thats why we be very careful of the actions due to the nature of its reprecussion. It does not exhaust itself when it ripens.
*
agreed 100%... don't play play with kamma.

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 17 2010, 11:10 AM
eXPeri3nc3
post Aug 17 2010, 11:17 AM

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QUOTE(Joey-kun @ Aug 17 2010, 10:59 AM)
yes the bandits will get karma back, but Moganalla killed his parents in his previous life by beating them  to death, and not only in that last life of his that he died that way but in many previous lives as well.

That is the nature of Karma.

1. Karma is definite in that virtuous actions lead to happiness and non-virtuous to suffering.
2. Karmic imprints increase; the result is greater than the cause.
3. One will never experience a karmic result one did not create the cause for.
4. Karmic causes created are never lost.

So thats why we be very careful of the actions due to the nature of its reprecussion. It does not exhaust itself when it ripens.
*
So if I get you correctly, good karmic seeds and bad ones (that one acquired throughout their lifetimes) will be in tact from since ages till now and will go on?
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 17 2010, 11:22 AM

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There is an interesting article in The Star today.

http://thestar.com.my/lifestyle/story.asp?...6&sec=lifefocus

The Star
Tuesday August 17, 2010
A dhamma journey for Ugandan
By MAJORIE CHIEW
maj@thestar.com.my

A Ugandan youth who left Africa to further his studies in India returned home as the first Buddhist monk in his homeland.

IN June 1990, Steven Kaboggoza, then 24, left Uganda to study in a university in India. His family and kin expected him to return as “a rich businessman with a briefcase”.

After seven years of travelling, Kaboggoza returned home as a Buddhist yogi with a shaven head and a backpack. His family was puzzled by his odd baggage: scuba diving gear and books on Buddhism.

“In Uganda, there was no Buddhist temple or even a single Buddhist teacher and certainly there is no sea in which to dive,” writes Kaboggoza who now goes by the name, Buddharakkhita, in his first book, Planting Dhamma Seeds: The Emergence Of Buddhism In Africa. He also wrote another book, Drop By Drop: Practising Dhamma In Daily Life.

Bhante Buddharakkhita’s strange baggage had something to do with his life-changing experiences. (The term Bhante means Venerable Sir, and is used when addressing a Buddhist monk.)

The religious books tell of his spiritual journey after he befriended two young Thai monks studying at the university. Kaboggoza also embarked on a trip to meet the Dalai Lama after he was inspired by his Dharma talk.
user posted image
A higher plane: Bhante Buddharakkhita (centre, pink umbrella) and other invited guests making their way to the World Buddhist Summit headquarter’s guest house in Kobe, Japan, in 2008

In 1994, after a 12-day meditation retreat in Dharamsala, India, which turned out to be his journey of self-discovery, Kaboggoza abandoned the academic path for the spiritual one. He joined spiritual friends in New Delhi to listen to talks, practise meditation and read Dharma books.

After a year, Kaboggoza left India for a pilgrimage to Nepal and Tibet, and eventually landed in southern Thailand, on the beautiful island of Koh Tao. To earn a living, he became a diving instructor. He had a good time, but soon became disillusioned with life and returned to Africa. Upon his return in 1997, his relatives found out about his new religion. They advised him to burn his books on Buddhism and returned to Christianity but he stood his ground.

He was grateful that he did before the tsunami struck in 2004 as many people were killed in the place where he used to dive.

As time went by, Kaboggoza grew restless. “I was lonesome without my spiritual friends and left Uganda in search of deeper Truth,” he writes in his book.

He spent a year in South Africa travelling and meditating before heading off to the United States.
user posted image
Bhante Buddharakkhita meditating in a ‘mobile temple’ in Uganda

In 1999, Kaboggoza attended a three-month retreat at the Insight Meditation Society (IMS) in Barre, Massachusetts, in the United States, and later stayed on to join the staff until 2000.

In 2001, he went to Tathagata Meditation Centre (TMC) in San Jose, California, where he underwent intensive meditation and monastic training that led to higher ordination as a Theravada Buddhist monk in 2002. He took on the name, Buddharakkhita.

In October 2004, Buddharakkhita went on a pilgrimage to India, Nepal and Myanmar. In Sri Lanka, his host, Dhammaruwan, a renowned child prodigy and a Buddhist devotee, offered him a choice of two Buddha statues to bring back to Uganda.

He decided on the larger statue since his name, Buddharakkhita, means “protector of Buddha”.

Buddharakkhita had not anticipated that carrying the statue would arouse so much curiosity from all around – in Mumbai, India (while on a five-hour stopover), on board the plane, and at the Kenyan immigration. He felt exhausted by the endless questioning about the statue. When he discovered that the statue had broke from its base due to constant handling, he wanted all the more to protect it. He wrapped it in a monk’s robe.

At one airport, an immigration officer asked: “Why are you carrying this statue? Open it! Can I see it? Are you carrying things inside it? Possibly drugs?”

When he explained, “It is simply a Buddha statue,” he was ticked off.

While in Kenya where he took a break before proceeding to Uganda, he kept the wrapped statue in a bag.

When he returned home, his mother was happy to see him and shed tears of joy.

As it was a Buddhist monk’s etiquette, Buddharakkhita he stayed in a nearby hotel (and not in his mother’s house). But his strange attire and behaviour again drew much attention.

He wrote in his book about how he frightened two children who ran away from him muttering: “This man is going to eat us!”

“Some Ugandans thought I was a traditional medicine man (or witch doctor) when they saw me with my monk’s bag and asked what I was selling,” he says.

When he carried a big Buddhist fan from Myanmar, some thought it was a shield to protect the body, and yet others wondered if he was the royal bodyguard of the king.

Buddharakkhita’s family came to accept his new faith. Within one month of setting foot in his homeland, five members from his family became Buddhists. They included his mother, young sister and brother-in-law.

His mother was his first convert after she saw how other Buddhists – four Thais who run a restaurant in Uganda and a Sri Lankan factory owner – treated her son with such deep respect.

When he left Uganda, the number of devotees had started to increase.

He relates in an e-mail interview from Sweden: “A few weeks before I left for the United States, my three nieces and one nephew became Buddhists.”

After a year in the United States, he flew back to Africa for the second time and noticed that people still looked at him strangely.

This African monk’s alms bowl became a constant source of inquiry as he went on his alms round.

“Some people thought I was carrying an African drum, a small jembe.” A gatekeeper friend at the University of Nairobi thought the bakuli (alms bowl) resembled a pot and signified he was going on a long journey.

Well, his “food bowl” had even been mistaken as a football and a bomb!

One woman who was among a group of women waiting to harvest coffee beans in a nearby coffee plantation stopped and greeted him. Another frowned and told him: “I am afraid of the bomb you are carrying. Is that really a bomb?”

Buddharakkhita is an official member of the World Buddhist Summit, Japan.

When the charismatic monk first related his funny monk tales at the solemn 5th Buddhist Summit that was held in Kobe, Japan, in 2008, he drew laughter from the 300-strong crowd in the conference hall.

“Whenever people see me with my alms bowl, they want to buy it. Sometimes they think I am a local shaman trying to sell medicine to them.”

But after a while, the locals started to offer him alms.

To him, going for alms is a humbling experience.

“I never know how things are going to turn out. I become the centre of attraction in Uganda. People always stare at me while I am walking on the road with my shaven head and robe.”

These days, Buddharakkhita is based at the Bhavana Society, West Virginia, in the United States.

Twice a year, he would return from abroad to meet his fellow Buddhists in Uganda.

“My visit ranges from three weeks to four months. I hope to stay longer to establish local support in Uganda,” writes Buddharakkhita, who is president of the World Buddhist Sangha Youth, Uganda Chapter.

In Uganda, he is involved in Dhamma teachings at the Uganda Buddhist Centre and Kampala Meditation and Yoga Group.

He also teaches at retreats worldwide, especially in Brazil and the United States.

“This year, I chose to spend my vassa (rains retreat) and teaching engagement in Sweden,” says Buddharakkhita, who is also a Spiritual Director of the Flowering Lotus Meditation Centre in Magnolia, Mississippi, and a board adviser of the Global Buddhist Relief (GBF), both in the United States.

For more info, go to ugandabuddhistcenter.org/e-mail: ugandabuddhistcentre@gmail.org.

Joey-kun
post Aug 17 2010, 11:27 AM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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QUOTE(eXPeri3nc3 @ Aug 17 2010, 11:17 AM)
So if I get you correctly, good karmic seeds and bad ones (that one acquired throughout their lifetimes) will be in tact from since ages till now and will go on?
*
correct. They can only be removed using the 4 opponent powers. As long as they are not applied they will always be there. even when you have experienced the effects it will always be there. The 4 powers are:

1) The power of regret: One begins by reflecting on regret; the awareness that actions we have committed bring suffering to ourselves and others. This is not the same as guilt, which implies a negative and helpless state of mind and is not useful, but a sort of "intelligent regret," which is a very positive and creative mental state aimed at correcting the mistake so we won't repeat it.

2) The power of reliance: To correct our mistakes or negative actions directed toward either the Four Jewels or other sentient beings, we take refuge and generate bodhichitta. We rely on the Buddha who is our role model, the dharma that is the teachings of the Buddha, and the sangha.

3) The power of remedy (the antidote): These are positive actions of body, speech, and mind that we do to purify the negativity. This is "building the wall" of good karma. This can include kind deeds, chanting mantras, meditation, etc. and the dedication of the merit of what we have done to help anyone we may have harmed.

4) The power of resolve: This is our ongoing determination to never repeat the negative action and then not doing it again.
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post Aug 17 2010, 11:31 AM

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QUOTE(Joey-kun @ Aug 17 2010, 11:27 AM)
correct. They can only be removed using the 4 opponent powers. As long as they are not applied they will always be there. even when you have experienced the effects it will always be there. The 4 powers are:

1) The power of regret: One begins by reflecting on regret; the awareness that actions we have committed bring suffering to ourselves and others. This is not the same as guilt, which implies a negative and helpless state of mind and is not useful, but a sort of "intelligent regret," which is a very positive and creative mental state aimed at correcting the mistake so we won't repeat it.

2) The power of reliance: To correct our mistakes or negative actions directed toward either the Four Jewels or other sentient beings, we take refuge and generate bodhichitta. We rely on the Buddha who is our role model, the dharma that is the teachings of the Buddha, and the sangha.

3) The power of remedy (the antidote): These are positive actions of body, speech, and mind that we do to purify the negativity. This is "building the wall" of good karma. This can include kind deeds, chanting mantras, meditation, etc. and the dedication of the merit of what we have done to help anyone we may have harmed.

4) The power of resolve: This is our ongoing determination to never repeat the negative action and then not doing it again.
*
But to me that does not sound like removing it. More like preventing bad seeds to be planted.

A Brother once told the students in my University in a Dharma Talk that good karmic seeds act as a hook to the door that is going to slam against you (bad karmic seeds), hence preventing one from being slammed by the door (effect). Also he said that it'll all be there until one reached enlightenment.

Well perhaps it can be from a different perspective, but both do does make sense.

This post has been edited by eXPeri3nc3: Aug 17 2010, 11:32 AM
soul2soul
post Aug 17 2010, 11:51 AM

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QUOTE(eXPeri3nc3 @ Aug 17 2010, 11:17 AM)
So if I get you correctly, good karmic seeds and bad ones (that one acquired throughout their lifetimes) will be in tact from since ages till now and will go on?
*
Some kamma are heavier, like committing matricide or patricide (killing parents), so the effect of this kamma may last a few lifetime like in the case of Ven Mahamoganalla.

Even good kamma that propels beings to the heavenly states (gods) will once day finish and they have to drop down to the human state or the evil destinies sooner or later.

Doing lots of good in this life will help us to be happy here and now, have a calm mind at death, and to reappear in good places after this life terminates. It's like putting more good kamma in our pockets, so the probability of striking a good kamma is higher.

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 17 2010, 11:54 AM
zstan
post Aug 17 2010, 11:55 AM

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QUOTE(eXPeri3nc3 @ Aug 17 2010, 11:17 AM)
So if I get you correctly, good karmic seeds and bad ones (that one acquired throughout their lifetimes) will be in tact from since ages till now and will go on?
*
technically, yes if they had not become 'fruits' & ripen.

however if the karmic seeds were to ripen, then its another story.

to make it simpler, good & bad things will not go on forever. all things will come to an end, just a matter of when.

this is why Buddhism is different from other religions who believe in eternal 'rewards and punishments'.

even if you have committed the 5 heavy evil karmas as what soul2soul said, and u get sent to hell for a few aeons. the punishment will still end, one day.

likewise for good things. easiest example will be rich kids. these people have done a lot great and good things and previous life and hence born into a rich family.

however if they just continue to spend the money and did not work hard for it, it will come to an end one day.

please correct me if i am wrong laugh.gif
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post Aug 17 2010, 12:01 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 17 2010, 11:51 AM)
Some kamma are heavier, like committing matricide or patricide (killing parents), so the effect of this kamma may last a few lifetime like in the case of Ven Mahamoganalla.

Even good kamma that propels beings to the heavenly states (gods) will once day finish and they have to drop down to the human state or the evil destinies sooner or later.

Doing lots of good in this life will help us to be happy here and now, have a calm mind at death, and to reappear in good places after this life terminates.  It's like putting more good kamma in our pockets, so the probability of striking a good kamma is higher.
*
Oh that's new to me. I never knew Gods that ran out of good karmic deeds / seeds will drop down from their state.

Hmm Karmic stuff so wide.

QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 17 2010, 11:55 AM)
technically, yes if they had not become 'fruits' & ripen.

however if the karmic seeds were to ripen, then its another story.

to make it simpler, good & bad things will not go on forever. all things will come to an end, just a matter of when.

this is why Buddhism is different from other religions who believe in eternal 'rewards and punishments'.

even if you have committed the 5 heavy evil karmas as what soul2soul said, and u get sent to hell for a few aeons. the punishment will still end, one day.

likewise for good things. easiest example will be rich kids. these people have done a lot great and good things and previous life and hence born into a rich family.

however if they just continue to spend the money and did not work hard for it, it will come to an end one day.

please correct me if i am wrong  laugh.gif
*
What you said is in conjunction to the definition of impermanence I guess.

But personally the thought that the BAD karmic seeds will not disappear until reborn into Buddhahood kind of scares me to be honest laugh.gif
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post Aug 17 2010, 12:08 PM

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QUOTE(eXPeri3nc3 @ Aug 17 2010, 12:01 PM)
Oh that's new to me. I never knew Gods that ran out of good karmic deeds / seeds will drop down from their state.

Hmm Karmic stuff so wide.
What you said is in conjunction to the definition of impermanence I guess.

But personally the thought that the BAD karmic seeds will not disappear until reborn into Buddhahood kind of scares me to be honest laugh.gif
*
The gods have lifeterm one, the higher ones live longer. Once their lifeterm finish (providing they are not killed or die prematurely), their aura recedes, their bodies start to sweat, they garments become dirty, and most of them panic at that stage.

Yea, once their good kamma finish, the gods will re-birth again, and will most likely drop down to the lower worlds if they haven't cultivate any merits there (spend their time partying and enjoy that is).


zstan
post Aug 17 2010, 12:21 PM

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QUOTE(eXPeri3nc3 @ Aug 17 2010, 12:01 PM)
Oh that's new to me. I never knew Gods that ran out of good karmic deeds / seeds will drop down from their state.

Hmm Karmic stuff so wide.
What you said is in conjunction to the definition of impermanence I guess.

But personally the thought that the BAD karmic seeds will not disappear until reborn into Buddhahood kind of scares me to be honest laugh.gif
*
yes. that's the whole point of Buddhism. to obtain Nirvana and get out of the Samsara cycle and Karma system.

and no, even as a Buddha, u are still applicable to past bad karma.

one story that i know of was,

the Buddha once had a headache for 3 days continuously. Even the best medicine man in the town could not treat Him and were puzzled.

hence the Buddha told them it was due to his past karma.

Many lifetimes ago, the Buddha was a child in a village. Besides the village was a pond full of fish.

to cut a long story short, the child was being rather naughty and used a stick and whacked the head of one of the fishes when it surfaced. that action planted a bad karmic seed and hence why Buddha got the headache, even after a few lifetimes and yes, even after being a Buddha.
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post Aug 17 2010, 01:10 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 17 2010, 12:08 PM)
The gods have lifeterm one, the higher ones live longer. Once their lifeterm finish (providing they are not killed or die prematurely), their aura recedes, their bodies start to sweat, they garments become dirty, and most of them panic at that stage.

Yea, once their good kamma finish, the gods will re-birth again, and will most likely drop down to the lower worlds if they haven't cultivate any merits there (spend their time partying and enjoy that is).
*
In which teaching was this mentioned if I may ask?

QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 17 2010, 12:21 PM)
yes. that's the whole point of Buddhism. to obtain Nirvana and get out of the Samsara cycle and Karma system.

and no, even as a Buddha, u are still applicable to past bad karma.

one story that i know of was,

the Buddha once had a headache for 3 days continuously. Even the best medicine man in the town could not treat Him and were puzzled.

hence the Buddha told them it was due to his past karma.

Many lifetimes ago, the Buddha was a child in a village. Besides the village was a pond full of fish.

to cut a long story short, the child was being rather naughty and used a stick and whacked the head of one of the fishes when it surfaced. that action planted a bad karmic seed and hence why Buddha got the headache, even after a few lifetimes and yes, even after being a Buddha.
*
Interesting story indeed. Hmmm animal cruelty reflected upon human being. Ouch.
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post Aug 17 2010, 01:55 PM

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QUOTE(eXPeri3nc3 @ Aug 17 2010, 01:10 PM)
In which teaching was this mentioned if I may ask?

*
Theravada suttas (tipitaka). In the Sutta Pitaka it was mentioned that Sakka (king of the gods) paid buddha a visit when he got depressed knowing he was going to die soon as a deva. There is also a story of a deva who panic after he saw his female playmates all disappear in front of him (apparently all took rebirth in Avici Hell after their kamma as gods finish).

The Abidhamma portion of the Tipitaka gave the lifespan of each gods, from a few million human years to a hundreds of thousands of Aeons (world cycles).

So the gods are not permanent, so warned by the Buddha.

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 17 2010, 01:55 PM
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post Aug 17 2010, 01:56 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 17 2010, 01:55 PM)
Theravada suttas (tipitaka). In the Sutta Pitaka it was mentioned that Sakka (king of the gods) paid buddha a visit when he got depressed knowing he was going to die soon as a deva.  There is also a story of a deva who panic after he saw his female playmates all disappear in front of him (apparently all took rebirth in Avici Hell after their kamma as gods finish).

The Abidhamma portion of the Tipitaka gave the lifespan of each gods, from a few million human years to a hundreds of thousands of Aeons (world cycles).

So the gods are not permanent, so warned by the Buddha.
*
Oh I see. I'm more to Mahayana teachings. Thanks for the heads up.
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post Aug 17 2010, 01:59 PM

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QUOTE(eXPeri3nc3 @ Aug 17 2010, 01:56 PM)
Oh I see. I'm more to Mahayana teachings. Thanks for the heads up.
*
I don't think the Mahayana buddhists believe the gods are permanent, do they?
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post Aug 17 2010, 02:00 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 17 2010, 01:59 PM)
I don't think the Mahayana buddhists believe the gods are permanent, do they?
*
I haven't come across any that says that it is impermanent. Not implying anything btw.
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post Aug 17 2010, 02:04 PM

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QUOTE(eXPeri3nc3 @ Aug 17 2010, 02:00 PM)
I haven't come across any that says that it is impermanent. Not implying anything btw.
*
No la. I got quite a number of mahayana friends, they all tell me the gods are not permanent. Otherwise why would the Buddha teach the characteristic of existence is "Suffering, Non-self, Impermanent".

Just something to ponder, if existence of gods is permanent.. why strive for Nirvana? smile.gif
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post Aug 17 2010, 02:04 PM

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the way devas die are quite different.

as a human, the process of natural dying needs to go through a few process.

i.e., birth -> growth->adult->grow old/fall sick then die. and since human age is short, u roughly know when you are about to die. (accidents aside)

for devas, since they are higher beings, they emit a sweet scent. however, when they are about to die, the scent will be replaced with a foul smell. every other devas will start to isolate you and you will be all alone. and add the extremely long life span, you don't really know when your time is up, hence you won't pay much attention to gathering more good merits, thus dropping into the lower realms.

technically, you won't be prepared psychologically that you are about to die. and devas dun die like humans, can tahan until the last breath. when they die, they just disappear.

correct me if i am wrong. biggrin.gif

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post Aug 17 2010, 02:08 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 17 2010, 02:04 PM)
No la. I got quite a number of mahayana friends, they all tell me the gods are not permanent. Otherwise why would the Buddha teach the characteristic of existence is "Suffering, Non-self, Impermanent".

Just something to ponder, if existence of gods is permanent.. why strive for Nirvana? smile.gif
*
Hmmmm. Food for thought eh. notworthy.gif

QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 17 2010, 02:04 PM)
the way devas die are quite different.

as a human, the process of natural dying needs to go through a few process.

i.e., birth -> growth->adult->grow old/fall sick then die. and since human age is short, u roughly know when you are about to die. (accidents aside)

for devas, since they are higher beings, they emit a sweet scent. however, when they are about to die, the scent will be replaced with a foul smell. every other devas will start to isolate you and you will be all alone. and add the extremely long life span, you don't really know when your time is up, hence you won't pay much attention to gathering more good merits, thus dropping into the lower realms.

technically, you won't be prepared psychologically that you are about to die. and devas dun die like humans, can tahan until the last breath. when they die, they just disappear.

correct me if i am wrong. biggrin.gif
*
What? Wow. That's like damn sad. Just disappear. At least when humans die they'll rot away and left behind is their skeleton.
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post Aug 17 2010, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 17 2010, 02:04 PM)
the way devas die are quite different.

as a human, the process of natural dying needs to go through a few process.

i.e., birth -> growth->adult->grow old/fall sick then die. and since human age is short, u roughly know when you are about to die. (accidents aside)

for devas, since they are higher beings, they emit a sweet scent. however, when they are about to die, the scent will be replaced with a foul smell. every other devas will start to isolate you and you will be all alone. and add the extremely long life span, you don't really know when your time is up, hence you won't pay much attention to gathering more good merits, thus dropping into the lower realms.

technically, you won't be prepared psychologically that you are about to die. and devas dun die like humans, can tahan until the last breath. when they die, they just disappear.

correct me if i am wrong. biggrin.gif
*
Correct. You sound quite knowledgable!

For devas that undergo spontaneous rebirth, males appear instantly as 21 year old (all handsome) and females at 16 years old (all beautiful). It depends on Karma too. If you are born inside a castle or residence of their rulers , you get to become their 'sons' or 'daughters' , but if you are born outside of their castles, you become their 'servants'. But if your kamma really bad, you become demigod (asuras) or the enemy of the gods.

They appear with their beautiful garments, and their body radiate aura. Their place of dwelling also appear together with them. They don't stink, they don't sweat. They need to eat , but they don't produce any excrement (pangsai or urinate). They stay in that state for a very long time..... until one day , their body aura recedes, they start to sweat - at that time they knew they are going to die. When they die, they leave nothing behind. (unlike humans who leave behind their coarpse).

But if can get to the deva world is not so bad la.
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post Aug 17 2010, 02:47 PM

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QUOTE(eXPeri3nc3 @ Aug 17 2010, 02:08 PM)
Hmmmm. Food for thought eh.  notworthy.gif
What? Wow. That's like damn sad. Just disappear. At least when humans die they'll rot away and left behind is their skeleton.
*
hahaha..another question for u: is leaving anything behind(your remains) pose any importance at all? rolleyes.gif

QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 17 2010, 02:12 PM)
Correct. You sound quite knowledgable!

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
blink.gif i tot this is basic knowledge?

yeah...that's why the Buddha said the human life is still the best..we can experience all 6 realms and have more time and attention for the Dhamma..

at heavenly realms..you enjoy too much and care less about enriching yourself spiritually..

at lower realms..u suffer too much to even bother..

that's why the Buddha chose to be reborn in the human realm. biggrin.gif

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post Aug 17 2010, 02:53 PM

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The teaching of Buddha can be said to be the most tolerant and peace-loving as compared with other religions. The absence of eternal torture for unbelievers in Buddhism is a unique trait of this non-Abrahamic religion.
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post Aug 17 2010, 02:55 PM

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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 17 2010, 02:47 PM)
hahaha..another question for u: is leaving anything behind(your remains) pose any importance at all?  rolleyes.gif
blink.gif  i tot this is basic knowledge?

yeah...that's why the Buddha said the human life is still the best..we can experience all 6 realms and have more time and attention for the Dhamma..

at heavenly realms..you enjoy too much and care less about enriching yourself spiritually..

at lower realms..u suffer too much to even bother..

that's why the Buddha chose to be reborn in the human realm.  biggrin.gif
*
It does, to your family members at least. (those who chose not to burn the corpses that is)

QUOTE(kenmirzz @ Aug 17 2010, 02:53 PM)
The teaching of Buddha can be said to be the most tolerant and peace-loving as compared with other religions. The absence of eternal torture for unbelievers in Buddhism is a unique trait of this non-Abrahamic religion.
*
One thing I like about Buddhism is that the preachers/teachers don't force you to join it unlike certain alternatives.
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post Aug 17 2010, 03:29 PM

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QUOTE(eXPeri3nc3 @ Aug 17 2010, 02:55 PM)
It does, to your family members at least. (those who chose not to burn the corpses that is)
One thing I like about Buddhism is that the preachers/teachers don't force you to join it unlike certain alternatives.
*
Have you all ever pondered about death? It seems more and more real as I get older. sad.gif
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post Aug 17 2010, 03:33 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 17 2010, 03:29 PM)
Have you all ever pondered about death?  It seems more and more real as I get older.  sad.gif
*
Yeah. Last friend to make in a lifetime. laugh.gif

Crap I forgot the quote I read from an article back then (Buddhism article), but I chose to embrace it.

I'll take it as it comes I guess.


Added on August 17, 2010, 3:33 pmWhat about you? Any interesting things you like to highlight?

This post has been edited by eXPeri3nc3: Aug 17 2010, 03:33 PM
zstan
post Aug 17 2010, 03:45 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 17 2010, 03:29 PM)
Have you all ever pondered about death?  It seems more and more real as I get older.  sad.gif
*
i cheated death a few times already. unsure.gif unsure.gif


soul2soul
post Aug 17 2010, 04:12 PM

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The relics of Ven Sariputta and Ven Mahamoganally were found earlier part of 20th century. Parts of them are on display in India, Sri Lanka and Burma. Stupa of Ven Sariputta , the great Marshal of the Dhamma.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sariputta



This actually served as a reminder to us that the Buddha and his great disciples were actually REAL people in the past. notworthy.gif

The Relics were excavated by the greedy British , but were later returned to India.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relics_of_Sar..._Mahamoggallana

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 17 2010, 04:16 PM
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post Aug 17 2010, 04:15 PM

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soul you read a lot regarding Buddhism or you learned about it from schools?
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post Aug 17 2010, 04:33 PM

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QUOTE(eXPeri3nc3 @ Aug 17 2010, 04:15 PM)
soul you read a lot regarding Buddhism or you learned about it from schools?
*
Read and study from a teacher.

Accounts of Venerable Mahamoganalla;

Moggallana’s Last Days
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


So the ascetics and the bandits met their end....

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 17 2010, 04:52 PM
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post Aug 17 2010, 11:12 PM

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Is it true that originally buddha's teaching must come from those written with Sanskrit?

Is it true that Siddhartha Gautama hate things to be written in Sanskrit?
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post Aug 17 2010, 11:52 PM

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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 17 2010, 03:45 PM)
i cheated death a few times already.  unsure.gif  unsure.gif
*

did u cheat death, or did death ignore you?

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post Aug 18 2010, 09:26 AM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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QUOTE(eXPeri3nc3 @ Aug 17 2010, 11:31 AM)
But to me that does not sound like removing it. More like preventing bad seeds to be planted.

A Brother once told the students in my University in a Dharma Talk that good karmic seeds act as a hook to the door that is going to slam against you (bad karmic seeds), hence preventing one from being slammed by the door (effect). Also he said that it'll all be there until one reached enlightenment.

Well perhaps it can be from a different perspective, but both do does make sense.
*
the steps are to remove the seeds because Karma can come back in 4 different ways. For example a person who kills will be more inclined to kill in his future life and will be born in a place with a lot of violence. I forgot the exact term, need to go back and consult the text tongue.gif

karma is not everything. merits are more important as merits are the inclination to do good rather than just having something good.


QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 17 2010, 11:51 AM)
Some kamma are heavier, like committing matricide or patricide (killing parents), so the effect of this kamma may last a few lifetime like in the case of Ven Mahamoganalla.

Even good kamma that propels beings to the heavenly states (gods) will once day finish and they have to drop down to the human state or the evil destinies sooner or later.

Doing lots of good in this life will help us to be happy here and now, have a calm mind at death, and to reappear in good places after this life terminates.  It's like putting more good kamma in our pockets, so the probability of striking a good kamma is higher.
*
correct but at the time of death you cant control which karma that will ripen so the most familiar karma will take over. But what is more important than just enjoying a smooth life is that we do something more with it rather than just existing.

QUOTE(eXPeri3nc3 @ Aug 17 2010, 12:01 PM)
Oh that's new to me. I never knew Gods that ran out of good karmic deeds / seeds will drop down from their state.

Hmm Karmic stuff so wide.
What you said is in conjunction to the definition of impermanence I guess.

But personally the thought that the BAD karmic seeds will not disappear until reborn into Buddhahood kind of scares me to be honest laugh.gif
*
Yep, it is mentioned that only fully enlightened Buddhas can see and calculate a person's karma from start to end. Not even Bodhisattvas and arahats can see the full extent of a person's karma.

QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 17 2010, 01:55 PM)
Theravada suttas (tipitaka). In the Sutta Pitaka it was mentioned that Sakka (king of the gods) paid buddha a visit when he got depressed knowing he was going to die soon as a deva.  There is also a story of a deva who panic after he saw his female playmates all disappear in front of him (apparently all took rebirth in Avici Hell after their kamma as gods finish).

The Abidhamma portion of the Tipitaka gave the lifespan of each gods, from a few million human years to a hundreds of thousands of Aeons (world cycles).

So the gods are not permanent, so warned by the Buddha.
*
It is said that when gods leave the heavenly realm, the suffering of that time is 16 times more of that of Avici, the hottest hell because its like everything is suddenly taken away. Those in the form and formless realms undergo more suffering because they can see where they end up after their good karma exhausts (which is, the hells) and they cant do a thing about it.

and oh yeah it would be helpful to know from you guys which school of Buddhism do we refer to because even though the teachings are the same but the viewpoints and focus on some subjects are noticeably different. It would be easier to reconcile and there will be less misunderstandings.

This post has been edited by Joey-kun: Aug 18 2010, 09:39 AM
soul2soul
post Aug 18 2010, 10:51 AM

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QUOTE(Cho_Hakkai @ Aug 17 2010, 11:12 PM)
Is it true that originally buddha's teaching must come from those written with Sanskrit?

Is it true that Siddhartha Gautama hate things to be written in Sanskrit?
*
Pali earlier, Sanskirt later part of buddhism.
CyberSetan
post Aug 18 2010, 11:02 AM

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Eh? its back in Kopitiam? ~ what happened already

This post has been edited by CyberSetan: Aug 18 2010, 11:05 AM
soul2soul
post Aug 18 2010, 11:05 AM

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QUOTE(CyberSetan @ Aug 18 2010, 11:02 AM)
Eh? its back in Kopitiam? section I see~ what happened already
*
a lot of old troll debaters kat RWI
PetomJL
post Aug 18 2010, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(loki @ Aug 10 2010, 06:37 PM)
jangan bang...nanti kena ISA baru tau

Buddhism is a teaching, not a religion. Buddha is a teacher, not a god/saint...
*
Actually its not impossible. According to Islamic teaching, there were 313 rasul and more than 100,000 nabi, but only 25 mentioned in the Quran. But it seemed that it is only an idea and never researched, so I leave it like that.

Anyway, there is a question i've been wondering, are the the chinese gods, demons etc (maybe I watched too much chinese drama tongue.gif ) part of Buddha's teachings?
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post Aug 18 2010, 11:31 AM

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namoamitabha
soul2soul
post Aug 18 2010, 11:35 AM

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QUOTE(PetomJL @ Aug 18 2010, 11:30 AM)
Actually its not impossible. According to Islamic teaching, there were 313 rasul and more than 100,000 nabi, but only 25 mentioned in the Quran. But it seemed that it is only an idea and never researched, so I leave it like that.

Anyway, there is a question i've been wondering, are the the chinese gods, demons etc (maybe I watched too much chinese drama  tongue.gif ) part of Buddha's teachings?
*
gods / demons - yes in buddhism.

The lower gods have eternal conflict with the Asuras (demons/ jealous ones) after they drove out the Titans from Travatimsa.

Conflicts were recorded in the Buddhist Sutta, where Lord Sakka (king of the gods) admitted to the Buddha his victory over the Titans were done in violence, and the happiness that arose from that occasion were shortlived.

The higher gods are free from those conflicts.

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 18 2010, 11:39 AM
chezzball
post Aug 18 2010, 11:44 AM

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i tot buddha no god wan
soul2soul
post Aug 18 2010, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Aug 18 2010, 11:44 AM)
i tot buddha no god wan
*
Got.

you can become god also, but not easy la.
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post Aug 18 2010, 11:45 AM

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HangPC2
post Aug 18 2010, 11:47 AM

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What a Difference '' Hinayana '' and '' Mahayana '' Sutra



Joey-kun
post Aug 18 2010, 11:51 AM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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oh yah not meant as an advertisement but there is a buddhist forum out there that allows troll-free discussions for those that are serious:
http://www.tsemtulku.com/forum

its kinda dead at the moment tho lol.
soul2soul
post Aug 18 2010, 11:51 AM

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QUOTE(HangPC2 @ Aug 18 2010, 11:47 AM)
What a Difference '' Hinayana '' and '' Mahayana '' Sutra
*
Theravada - in Pali language, believed to be the language used by the Buddha and his contemparies (closest)

Mahayana - in Sanskrit, emerged about 500 years after the split in Buddhism, and the language was the lingua franca of India at that time, shared by the Hindus also. (sanskrit mantras, etc)


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post Aug 18 2010, 11:52 AM

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QUOTE(Joey-kun @ Aug 18 2010, 11:51 AM)
oh yah not meant as an advertisement but there is a buddhist forum out there that allows troll-free discussions for those that are serious:
http://www.tsemtulku.com/forum

its kinda dead at the moment tho lol.
*
LOL. what tradition are you from if I may ask?
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post Aug 18 2010, 11:56 AM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 18 2010, 11:51 AM)
Theravada - in Pali language, believed to be the language used by the Buddha and his contemparies (closest)

Mahayana - in Sanskrit, emerged about 500 years after the split in Buddhism, and the language was the lingua franca of India at that time, shared by the Hindus also. (sanskrit mantras, etc)
*
ok Thanks....


I Like story '' Hikayat '' of the Journey to the West (India/Bharat/Langit Barat)
Deimos Tel`Arin
post Aug 18 2010, 11:59 AM

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the last time i visited religion thread in RWI and i asked about what the people there think about falun dafa, the results i got there were not very positive.

so here now, i am wondering what /k/ thinks about falun dafa.
soul2soul
post Aug 18 2010, 12:05 PM

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Dunno wo
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post Aug 18 2010, 12:06 PM

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QUOTE(Deimos Tel`Arin @ Aug 18 2010, 11:59 AM)
the last time i visited religion thread in RWI and i asked about what the people there think about falun dafa, the results i got there were not very positive.

so here now, i am wondering what /k/ thinks about falun dafa.
*
Please go start a new thread on that. We are trying to keep this thread for Buddhism discussion only. Thank you.
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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 18 2010, 12:06 PM)
Please go start a new thread on that.  We are trying to keep this thread for Buddhism discussion only.  Thank you.
*
Fren, pls set this to group thread also. That way you can expand this to many versions and gather buddhists together.

And also, do update the 1st post on any relevant points you picked up here, for easier reference, so no need go scouting page by page ya. like what most group threads does biggrin.gif
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post Aug 18 2010, 12:14 PM

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Interesting I will keep on reading.
zstan
post Aug 18 2010, 12:25 PM

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wooot..moved back to /k d.. hmmm~
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post Aug 18 2010, 12:26 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 18 2010, 12:06 PM)
Please go start a new thread on that.  We are trying to keep this thread for Buddhism discussion only.  Thank you.
*

but i thought falun dafa is supposed to be a school of buddhism?

from your reaction i take it that you do not look at it in a positive way? sweat.gif
maymay
post Aug 18 2010, 12:27 PM

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hi
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post Aug 18 2010, 12:28 PM

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QUOTE(Deimos Tel`Arin @ Aug 18 2010, 12:26 PM)
but i thought falun dafa is supposed to be a school of buddhism?

from your reaction i take it that you do not look at it in a positive way? sweat.gif
*
Falun Dafa is not a school of Buddhism.


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post Aug 18 2010, 12:30 PM

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Hello~
soul2soul
post Aug 18 2010, 12:32 PM

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QUOTE(Deimos Tel`Arin @ Aug 18 2010, 12:26 PM)
but i thought falun dafa is supposed to be a school of buddhism?

from your reaction i take it that you do not look at it in a positive way? sweat.gif
*
There is only one type of Buddhism taught by the Buddha. He did not teach Theravada or Mahayana. He taught that consistently for 45 years of his life, which is the 4 noble truths, and the 8 fold paths that lead to Nibbana.

The split in Buddhism happens much later in the history of buddhism about 500 years after his passing, due to differences in interpretation and the reformation in buddhism.

Did the Buddha teach Falun Dafa?

If he didn't , then it's not part of buddhism, right?
zstan
post Aug 18 2010, 12:33 PM

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QUOTE(Deimos Tel`Arin @ Aug 18 2010, 12:26 PM)
but i thought falun dafa is supposed to be a school of buddhism?

from your reaction i take it that you do not look at it in a positive way? sweat.gif
*
buddhism has a loooooooooooot of schools.

not so sure about this school's teaching ..sorry can't help. unsure.gif
Deimos Tel`Arin
post Aug 18 2010, 12:33 PM

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[quote]
Falun Dafa is not a school of Buddhism.
*

[/quote]

hmmm perhaps you are right, i thought they are related.
maybe i should re-read the book again to seek better understanding.

source: http://www.falundafa.org/book/eng/pdf/zfl_en.pdf
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
soul2soul
post Aug 18 2010, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(MIVECburuk @ Aug 18 2010, 12:30 PM)
Hello~
*
hi welcome to the thread.
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post Aug 18 2010, 12:35 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 18 2010, 12:34 PM)
hi welcome to the thread.
*
Thanks,May you be happy! May I be happy too. Such divine state. Hu hu biggrin.gif
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post Aug 18 2010, 12:36 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 18 2010, 12:32 PM)
There is only one type of Buddhism taught by the Buddha. He did not teach Theravada or Mahayana. He taught that consistently for 45 years of his life, which is the 4 noble truths, and the 8 fold paths that lead to Nibbana.

The split in Buddhism happens much later in the history of buddhism about 500 years after his passing, due to differences in interpretation and the reformation in buddhism.

Did the Buddha teach Falun Dafa?

If he didn't , then it's not part of buddhism, right?
*

though what you wrote may be true, but i find that the teachings are similar oh.

is about one self's own spiritual development, to seek enlightenment, to not care much about various attachments, to pay off the debts of karma, etc.

soul2soul
post Aug 18 2010, 12:36 PM

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So how does the 4 noble truths and attaining of Cessation of Suffering (nibbana) fit into falun Dafa?

what does falun dara says about the 4 noble truths? any meditation instructions?


8 fold path

1. Right View
2. Right Intention
3. Right Speech
4. Right Action
5. Right Livelihood
6. Right Effort
7. Right Mindfulness
8. Right Concentration


oh yea, Zstan, back to our long discussion... tell me what you understgand about the 8 fold path. This is the FUNDAMENTAL of buddha's teaching.

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 18 2010, 12:37 PM
chezzball
post Aug 18 2010, 12:54 PM

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i know Lee's lotus 8 fold path
Joey-kun
post Aug 18 2010, 01:08 PM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 18 2010, 11:52 AM)
LOL. what tradition are you from if I may ask?
*
if i say that i'm in vajrayana what would you say?

however what i study covers both theravarda and mahayana. the key points are still there.
SUSenjoice
post Aug 18 2010, 01:11 PM

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hmmm i tot joe is malay ... are u a chinese? or indian?
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post Aug 18 2010, 01:41 PM

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QUOTE(Deimos Tel`Arin @ Aug 18 2010, 12:33 PM)
hmmm perhaps you are right, i thought they are related.
maybe i should re-read the book again to seek better understanding.

source: http://www.falundafa.org/book/eng/pdf/zfl_en.pdf

*
See - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong

Excerpt -

alun Gong (alternatively Falun Dafa) is a system of beliefs and practices founded in China by Li Hongzhi in 1992. The practice emerged at the end of China's "qigong boom", a period of growth and popularity of similar practices. Falun Gong differs from other qigong schools in its absence of daily rituals of worship,[1] its greater emphasis on morality, and the theological nature of its teachings.[2][3] Western academics have described Falun Gong as a "spiritual movement" based on the teachings of its founder[4], a "cultivation system" in the tradition of Chinese antiquity,[5] and sometimes a new religious movement (NRM). Falun Gong places a heavy emphasis on morality in its central tenets - Truthfulness, Compassion, and Forbearance (Chinese: 真、善、忍).[6] Its teachings are derived from qigong, Buddhist and Taoist concepts.[5][7][8][9]


soul2soul
post Aug 18 2010, 01:58 PM

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QUOTE(Joey-kun @ Aug 18 2010, 01:08 PM)
if i say that i'm in vajrayana what would you say?

however what i study covers both theravarda and mahayana. the key points are still there.
*
Same principles, but like you said before, the emphasis is actually quite different.

Even among the theravada countries, the Thai don't stress so much on Ahbidhamma, but the Burmese monks have to study them. Attended some pujas presided by Tibetan monks in the past smile.gif

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 18 2010, 02:02 PM
Balaclava
post Aug 18 2010, 02:00 PM

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Joe is Chinese la. Why all want to ask wan. lol
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post Aug 18 2010, 04:12 PM

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QUOTE(entryman @ Aug 14 2010, 05:29 PM)
I don't call myself a Buddhist by the way. I just call myself a Buddhist when there is a need to fit in, such as social groups that preach so heavily on it, or in registration forms to facilitate ease of registration and conform to social ideologies. I actually learn a lot from Hinduism too, because I've frequently been exposed to it. Haven't really been exposed to Islam and Christianity, but I really don't mind learning too, if it is suitable or easily comprehensible.
*
True thing learning other religion is not about hybird religion knowledge and become a fanatic talker. Its also as solving puzzle as some part cannot fit in and some can fit in to the brain knowledge. Don't just learn 1 thing while there is a chance to learn all.

I'm a free thinker spiritual type & mostly close to Buddhist. Believe in teaching & training for perfection not by just believe, if really just believe it will gives no where point at all. What I think most important that is harvest knowledge as much as you can. I bet all god or buddha won't be enlighten at their first life.

To talk about supernatural, of course there are many wonderful things we can do but sadly as Einstein said human just using his/her brain 10% only. So how can we unlock the other 90%? That's why must keep on finding & meditating. I might sounds crazy typing this but still I need to do what must I do.
QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 14 2010, 08:55 PM)
<<somehow saying buddhism is teaching is misleading>>

Honey to someone is poison to others.  If this does not work for you, do something else.

Fundamentally, Buddhism believe that all the answers are WITHING us. We do not have to look outside to get it.  Now, how do you reach enlightenment, there are many ways.  Pick the one that works for you.
*
Hard way is finding by your eyes, ear, nose, foot, hand. Easy way is sit down meditate using brain and heart to reach spirit.
QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 15 2010, 12:00 AM)
Now who want to belief such stuff? ONly religionist will belief.For me, as atheist, its all in the mind. You mind have trick you to belief
all this supernatural things is real...
*
The brain is always against you and creating some crazy imagination example: when you scared. To overcome that is you are the only 1 can control your own brain and heart. Real thing is You,The Brain and The Heart never work together. Try find a way to control brain and heart. There's no easy job since we can't even control our self fully 100%.
QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 15 2010, 12:29 AM)
At least, Christian are totally honest about it. THey said we're supernatural. Need faith to understand.
But Buddhism instead tell us, hey, no supernatural. All philosophical. Yeah right.
*
How honest do you know? How much faith to understand? Is everyone honest to you? And who ask you to believe while Buddha doesn't even want you to believe. Buddha never cheat except humans create or add misunderstanding knowledge.
QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Aug 15 2010, 12:58 AM)
It's not just purely faith.
It's real live experience with God.
That is the difference.
Until so long, you still don't get it.
Sigh.
*
Sealing faith end up no matter what other say, not they don't understand is actually they don't want to understand.
QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 15 2010, 01:49 AM)
P.S.:  For a TRUE Buddhist, there is NO POINT in arguing with anyone.  If it works for you, choose this.  If not, do something else.  There are NO BROWNIE point for making people to believe in Buddhism.
*
True, they never ask you must believe me. You believe when you WANT to believe me, (otherwise waste my time.) thumbup.gif
QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 15 2010, 09:51 AM)
I think they have a problem of buddhism being a creation of human but claiming to have the answer to the supernatural world. I still fail to see why they are upset with this.
*
Being a low profile that doesn't show off. That's why they so upset when there nothing special about buddha cause low profile. And as for low profile doesn't mean they are nothing. If by just because show off power then they will join then its no point at all cause they mean to be greedy for power.

This post has been edited by dragynraken: Aug 18 2010, 04:57 PM
SUSHamas
post Aug 18 2010, 04:14 PM

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whats mock vegetable meat i see in the supermarket
beatlesalbum
post Aug 18 2010, 04:41 PM

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QUOTE(Hamas @ Aug 18 2010, 04:14 PM)
whats mock vegetable meat i see in the supermarket
*
Flour, starch, soy bean mix with a lot of MSG and other artificial non-meat-based flavouring.
soul2soul
post Aug 18 2010, 04:48 PM

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QUOTE(Hamas @ Aug 18 2010, 04:14 PM)
whats mock vegetable meat i see in the supermarket
*
THey are not healthy. mostly added with lots of chemical to make them look like meat.


firefawkes
post Aug 18 2010, 04:51 PM

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oh man...when i saw this thread, i couldn't help but clicking

but joe, why suddenly?
SUSPVCpipe
post Aug 18 2010, 04:51 PM

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hello, wat is dharma? and some of u said buddism have god? is this true? i thought buddha only believe on greater power, not god and demon
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QUOTE(PVCpipe @ Aug 18 2010, 04:51 PM)
hello, wat is dharma? and some of u said buddism have god? is this true? i thought buddha only believe on greater power, not god and demon
*
dharma = teachings of the Buddha

God? the ideology of god was mixed into the teachings of the Buddha when they tried to spread Buddhism into China, keyword, Taoism


dragynraken
post Aug 18 2010, 05:23 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Aug 15 2010, 09:06 PM)
You sounds hurt about Christianity.
*
You sound like wanted to convert buddhist to christian but you failed. Don't burden yourself just do what you're doing in life. Everyone has his/her own path or road to walk. Busy body lol haha biggrin.gif
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QUOTE(dragynraken @ Aug 18 2010, 05:23 PM)
You sound like wanted to convert buddhist to christian but you failed. Don't burden yourself just do what you're doing in life. Everyone has his/her own path or road to walk. Busy body lol haha biggrin.gif
*
for someone that talks so much bout meditation, you dont sound like one that has much composure
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post Aug 18 2010, 05:45 PM

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QUOTE(dragynraken @ Aug 18 2010, 05:23 PM)
You sound like wanted to convert buddhist to christian but you failed. Don't burden yourself just do what you're doing in life. Everyone has his/her own path or road to walk. Busy body lol haha biggrin.gif
*
I think that post was before this thread changed into a thread for Buddhism discussion.

All that is in the past now. Please move along.


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post Aug 18 2010, 05:46 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 18 2010, 05:45 PM)
I think that post was before this thread changed into a thread for Buddhism discussion. 

All that is in the past now.  Please move along.
*
so...apa lu mau diskus?
yeezai
post Aug 18 2010, 05:56 PM

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have any of you guys thought about being a monk ? maybe short period ones...like in thai ...
firefawkes
post Aug 18 2010, 05:59 PM

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QUOTE(yeezai @ Aug 18 2010, 05:56 PM)
have any of you guys thought about being a monk ? maybe short period ones...like in thai ...
*
you mean short term monastic life? (1 week or more)

or long term? (studies)
yeezai
post Aug 18 2010, 06:14 PM

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QUOTE(firefawkes @ Aug 18 2010, 05:59 PM)
you mean short term monastic life? (1 week or more)

or long term? (studies)
*
yea short term ones...
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QUOTE(firefawkes @ Aug 18 2010, 05:46 PM)
so...apa lu mau diskus?
*
Discuss like what has been going on the past 3-4 pages? smile.gif
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QUOTE(beatlesalbum @ Aug 18 2010, 04:41 PM)
Flour, starch, soy bean mix with a lot of MSG and other artificial non-meat-based flavouring.
*
QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 18 2010, 04:48 PM)
THey are not healthy. mostly added with lots of chemical to make them look like meat.
*
so its for buddhist to enjoy the taste and texture of meat when eating it without feeling bad
unknown warrior
post Aug 18 2010, 07:20 PM

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kinda pity this thread.

from /k/ ---> RWI then back to /k/

first Buddhist complain dun want to talk in /k/, then pushed to RWI
then RWI ppl dun want it there then push back to /k/.

Not easy to maintain a religion thread.
soul2soul
post Aug 18 2010, 07:21 PM

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Love u
Hexism
post Aug 18 2010, 07:21 PM

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i thought this racist tered was closed ? so much nerve hor recreate same thread ? pls respect la forum rules here is /k/ not place for religion for buddhites
unknown warrior
post Aug 18 2010, 07:23 PM

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QUOTE(Hexism @ Aug 18 2010, 07:21 PM)
i thought this racist tered was closed ? so much nerve hor recreate same thread ? pls respect la forum rules here is /k/ not place for religion for buddhites
*
Apa tahi kau cakap ni? rclxub.gif
Hexism
post Aug 18 2010, 07:25 PM

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apa tahi lu tanya ?
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post Aug 18 2010, 07:26 PM

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Jangan Gado
unknown warrior
post Aug 18 2010, 07:27 PM

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QUOTE(Hexism @ Aug 18 2010, 07:25 PM)
apa tahi lu tanya ?
*
This thread where got racist?
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post Aug 18 2010, 07:37 PM

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Some Classical Malay Materials for the Study of the Chinese Novel Journey to the West



by Hoon Teik Toh


The objective of this study is to stimulate interest in looking further for a possible "missing link" between the two monkeys, Hanuman (the central figure in the Sundarakanda of Valmiki's Sanskrit epic Ramayana) and Sun Wukong (the hero in the Chinese novel Xiyouji "Journey to the West", hereafter XYJ), in Classical Malay literature. I refer the reader to Nakano and Mair for more thorough treatments of Sun Wukong's origins and the secondary literature thereon as I shall, in this paper, confine myself to supplying the reader, for the very first time, with a few excerpts of Classical Malay texts accompanied by an English translation in order to show that they contain elements traceable to a common origin shared by XYJ. In so doing, I do not pretend to offer an ultimate solution to the long-debated problem but merely suggest that the clues to a solution, as with many other things in life, may be found in unexpected places.

Before we embark on perusing the extracts, a few general remarks on the Malay romances may not be out of place here.

Many of the Malay popular romances (hikayat) were transmitted orally for centuries before they were recorded in Jawi script. It is easy to imagine that not every single story or all the variations of a similar story have come to survive in writing. It follows that the limited number of written stories that have been studied present to us a far from complete picture of the literary products that at one time were current in Nusantara (Malay Archipelago). Though handed down in writing after the Malay people had been converted to the Muhammadan religion (15th century), pre-Islamic (mainly Hindu) elements are still abundant in them. A mixture of Indian and Perso-Arabic elements are usually observable.

Most of the stories were told and retold to Malay audiences by their tale-tellers or, as they were called in Malay, penglipur lara "soother of the afflicted, soother of cares". In general, the language is prolix, repetitive and, at times, may appear to modern readers to be monotonous, more so in translation. While trying to be faithful to the original in my translation, I have occasionally compressed two or more sentences by inserting a relative pronoun such as "who", "which", "where" etc. wherever necessary. The words maka, hatta etc. used frequently to begin a sentence in Classical Malay have no English equivalents and have to be left out of the English translation.

There are a considerable number of Classical Malay manuscripts that have never been read and await critical studies. In this study, I have used only published texts which are not limited to HSR(B), HSR(M) (the Brunei and Malaysian versions of the Ramayana) and HSS (a Malay recension of the Mahabharata) in which Hanuman occurs, but also include other Malay romances that were inspired by the oral narration of the Ramayana and Mahabharata in the traditional Malay society and might have therefore preserved elements derived from a certain variant narrative of the epics that no longer exists.

Having kept in mind the basic facts mentioned above, let us now turn to read closely some passages culled from the Classical Malay texts. Attention is drawn to the parallels between XYJ and its Malay counterparts under "Remarks".


Sources : http://www.sino-platonic.org/abstracts/spp...man_monkey.html




yeezai
post Aug 18 2010, 07:48 PM

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trolls and non buddhist chat will be reported...non buddhist please respect other religion...
Hexism
post Aug 18 2010, 07:51 PM

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so buddhism is a religion now ? so many contradictions
djronzai
post Aug 18 2010, 07:54 PM

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then wat about taoist o?
SUSHamas
post Aug 18 2010, 07:56 PM

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QUOTE(djronzai @ Aug 18 2010, 07:54 PM)
then wat about taoist o?
*
you should open a new thread about it
djronzai
post Aug 18 2010, 07:56 PM

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tapi aku christian~~~~ weee
yeezai
post Aug 18 2010, 07:57 PM

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QUOTE(Hexism @ Aug 18 2010, 07:51 PM)
so buddhism is a religion now ? so many contradictions
*
well its a way of life so its ok for muslims to come to temple and listen to our teaching...its not against islamic law...i hope muslims in msia will come to listen ...
yeezai
post Aug 18 2010, 08:02 PM

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QUOTE(djronzai @ Aug 18 2010, 07:56 PM)
tapi aku christian~~~~ weee
*
christians are welcome too ....
beelzebob13
post Aug 18 2010, 08:09 PM

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QUOTE(Hamas @ Aug 18 2010, 07:02 PM)
so its for buddhist to enjoy the taste and texture of meat when eating it without feeling bad
*
no...it is FAKE meat so how to have any bad feelings? it is in no way imitates the taste or texture of real meat...perhaps in appearance only. why ppl eat it...lol actually i dunno. biggrin.gif
beelzebob13
post Aug 18 2010, 08:16 PM

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QUOTE(Hexism @ Aug 18 2010, 07:21 PM)
i thought this racist tered was closed ? so much nerve hor recreate same thread ? pls respect la forum rules here is /k/ not place for religion for buddhites
*
Buddhism is not religion. ppl who call it a religion only want to have it on the same page as (other) religions...this is big mistake...because there is no page...or spoon. rolleyes.gif
djronzai
post Aug 18 2010, 08:20 PM

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nod.gif honor,respect <<< flex.gif
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 18 2010, 11:15 PM

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QUOTE(Hamas @ Aug 18 2010, 07:02 PM)
so its for buddhist to enjoy the taste and texture of meat when eating it without feeling bad
*
No. Those full time vegetarians especially those who eat healthily, might not even want to eat that kind of food.

I am guessing that those fake meat are popular because it is something those who are not full time vegetarians can relate too. For example, they have fake roast duck. Sounds better than roast fucuk (which is what the fake roast duck is made of). smile.gif
POYOZER
post Aug 19 2010, 12:18 AM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Aug 18 2010, 11:44 AM)
i tot buddha no god wan
*
The information keeps changing. =) sweat.gif
SUSalaskanbunny
post Aug 19 2010, 12:22 AM

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dai sei taliban kena fucuk by buddha.. destroy buddha's statue then buddha ask jew farak taliban... lol
HangPC2
post Aug 19 2010, 12:25 AM

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QUOTE(alaskanbunny @ Aug 19 2010, 12:22 AM)
dai sei taliban kena fucuk by buddha.. destroy buddha's statue then buddha ask jew farak taliban... lol
*
apa ini mau vrooom
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 19 2010, 12:29 AM

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QUOTE(POYOZER @ Aug 19 2010, 12:18 AM)
The information keeps changing. =)  sweat.gif
*
This is a good write up -

http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma3/budgod.html

Do Buddhists Believe in God? -- by Kusala Bhikshu
(A talk given at a high school in Los Angeles.)


Photo - Bob Heide


Why is it... The Buddha never talked about the One God of the desert, the Judeo-Christian God? Does this mean that all Buddhists are atheists and don’t believe in God? Did the Buddha believe in God?

These are some of the questions I would like to try and answer today.

The Buddha was born 500 years before Christ, in what is now Nepal. His dad was a king, his mom was a queen, and his dad wanted him to take over the family business (the kingdom) when he got older.

The kind of world the Buddha was born into was magical. Everything seemed to be alive. The trees, mountains, lakes, and sky were living and breathing with a variety of gods in charge. If you needed rain you asked one god, if you needed it to stop raining you asked another. The priests of India did all the religious work, and got paid for it.

In India at the time of the Buddha you became a priest if you were born into the right family, and not because of the school you went to, or the grades you got.

There were other kinds of religious people as well.

Mendicants were men who left their family, friends, and jobs to find the answers to life. They did not live in homes or apartments, but lived under trees and in caves, and would practice meditation all day long. They wanted to really be uncomfortable, so they could understand what suffering was all about.

Many kinds of meditation were practiced by these mendicants. In Tranquility Meditation for instance, you think about just one thing, like looking at a candle or saying a word over and over. When the mind becomes focused in oneness, you experience a great peacefulness.

Even if the mendicants were sitting in the rain on a cold day, they were still content. They found in their meditation practice the essence of happiness.

Renunciation is when you give up all the things that make your life pleasant. Sometimes the people with money and power in India would buy a lot of stuff to make themselves happy and their lives more comfortable, thinking that happiness and comfort depended on what they owned.

When the mendicants could see their own suffering clearly, after many years of renunciation, they understood that happiness was not dependent on the things they owned, but the kind of life they lived.

Even all the gods in India could not end the suffering of one human being.

At the age of 29, the Buddha stopped praying to the gods to end his suffering and the suffering of others. He left his family and friends, went to the edge of the forest, took off all his clothes and jewelry, covered his naked body with rags of cloth, cut off his hair and started to meditate.

He became a mendicant, and It took him six years of hard work and much suffering, but in the end he was able to stop his suffering forever (Nirvana) and help others stop their suffering as well.

Did the Buddha believe in God, the One God of the desert, the God of the Christians, Jews and Muslims?

Well... No... He didn't... Monotheism (only one God) was a foreign concept to the Buddha, his world was filled with many gods. The creator god Brahma being the most important one.

At the time of the Buddha, the only people practicing the religion of the One God of the desert, were the Jews. Remember, it was still 500 years before Christ came into the world.

The Buddha never left India. The Buddha walked from village to village... In his entire lifetime he never went any further than 200 miles from his birthplace.

The Buddha never met a Jew... And because of this, he never said anything about the One God of the desert.

There is also nothing in the teachings of the Buddha that suggest how to find God or worship the god's of India, although the Buddha himself was a theist (believed in gods), his teachings are non-theistic.

The Buddha was more concerned with the human condition: Birth, Sickness, Old age, and Death. The Buddhist path is about coming to a place of acceptance with these painful aspects of life, and not suffering through them.

Please be clear on this point... The Buddha is not thought of as a god in Buddhism and is not prayed to. He is looked up to and respected as a great teacher, in the same way we respect Abraham Lincoln as a great president.

He was a human being who found his perfection in Nirvana. Because of his Nirvana, the Buddha was perfectly moral, perfectly ethical, and ended his suffering forever.

Does that mean that every Buddhist in the world is an atheist?

No!!! I have met a lot of Buddhists who believe in God. I have met a lot of Buddhists who don’t believe in God... And a lot of Buddhists just don’t know.

All three points of view are OK if you’re Buddhist because suffering is more important than God in Buddhism.

Sometimes a student will ask me how everything in this world got started... "If you don’t have God in Buddhism then who or what caused the universe?"

When the Buddha was asked how the world started, he kept silent. In the religion of Buddhism we don’t have a first cause, instead we have a never ending circle of birth and death. In this world and in all worlds, there are many beginnings and ends. The model of life used in Buddhism has no starting place... It just keeps going and going.

Now having said that... If you’re a Buddhist it’s OK to believe God was the first cause... It really doesn't go against the teachings of the Buddha, his focus was on suffering... It's also OK to believe science has the answer… Like the big bang theory, etc... Some Buddhist’s don’t even care how it all started, and that’s fine too. Knowing how the world started is not going to end your suffering, it’s just going to give you more stuff to think about.

I hope you can see that God is not what Buddhism is about... Suffering is... And if you want to believe in God, as some Buddhists do, I suppose it's OK. But, Buddhist's don't believe God can end suffering. Only the teaching's of the Buddha can help us end suffering through wisdom and the activity of compassion.

In his whole life and in all his teachings the Buddha never said anything about the One God of the desert.
SUSitanium
post Aug 19 2010, 12:31 AM

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QUOTE(alaskanbunny @ Aug 19 2010, 12:22 AM)
dai sei taliban kena fucuk by buddha.. destroy buddha's statue then buddha ask jew farak taliban... lol
*
QFT +99999999999
SUSHamas
post Aug 19 2010, 12:32 AM

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QUOTE(alaskanbunny @ Aug 19 2010, 12:22 AM)
dai sei taliban kena fucuk by buddha.. destroy buddha's statue then buddha ask jew farak taliban... lol
*
its just stone. why want to worshipping a stone
SUSitanium
post Aug 19 2010, 12:38 AM

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QUOTE(Hamas @ Aug 19 2010, 12:32 AM)
its just stone. why want to worshipping a stone
*
That their choice, YOUR religion teaches you to judge what other ppl do izzit?
unknown warrior
post Aug 19 2010, 12:40 AM

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QUOTE(Hamas @ Aug 19 2010, 12:32 AM)
its just stone. why want to worshipping a stone
*
what about the mecca meteor stone? aka black rock?
millions of moslem bow down in it's direction.

LOLWUT???????
Instant_noodle
post Aug 19 2010, 12:40 AM

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QUOTE(Hamas @ Aug 19 2010, 12:32 AM)
its just stone. why want to worshipping a stone
*

physically it is made of stone but...
it's a historical monument
it's a gift
it's an art

a big bang from those people had wiped of the most attractive and most treasured places in the world....

so karma hit 'em back with 1 less tourism hot spot

one view on physical appearance doesn't dictate the rest of it's value

so does those colorful papers in ur wallet... physically those are pieces of paper wat... can i have all those papers in ur wallet?? brows.gif
SUSitanium
post Aug 19 2010, 12:42 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Aug 19 2010, 12:40 AM)
what about the mecca meteor stone? aka black rock?
millions of moslem bow down in it's direction.

LOLWUT???????
*
LOL pwned.
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 19 2010, 12:44 AM

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QUOTE(Hamas @ Aug 19 2010, 12:32 AM)
its just stone. why want to worshipping a stone
*
We don't worship stones or idols. We are just paying respect to Buddha and not worshiping the statue.

When the Taliban destroyed the statues, I didn't consider it as a big loss. After all nothing is permanent and it is like you said just stone.

It is however regrettable that such a cultural artifact that withstood hundreds of years is gone in an instant blown up by explosives.
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post Aug 19 2010, 12:46 AM

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Hey guys could you stop with arguing and baiting each other? You guys are only messing up the thread.

Thank you.
unknown warrior
post Aug 19 2010, 12:47 AM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 19 2010, 12:44 AM)
We don't worship stones or idols.  We are just paying respect to Buddha and not worshiping the statue. 

When the Taliban destroyed the statues, I didn't consider it as a big loss.  After all nothing is permanent and it is like you said just stone. 

It is however regrettable that such a cultural artifact that withstood hundreds of years is gone in an instant blown up by explosives.
*
No it was blown up by stupid mind.

ALL taliban has the idiocy that surpasses the world population's average mind.
SUSalaskanbunny
post Aug 19 2010, 12:52 AM

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QUOTE(HangPC2 @ Aug 19 2010, 12:25 AM)
apa ini mau vrooom
*
but vroom vroom... but taliban boom boom!

QUOTE(Hamas @ Aug 19 2010, 12:32 AM)
its just stone. why want to worshipping a stone
*
lol.. its symbol lar... shows that buddha is boss there... taliban thinks they are protected... but didnt know jews under buddha... buddha's palm can wipe out a village.. look what happened to taliban
SUSHamas
post Aug 19 2010, 12:53 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Aug 19 2010, 12:40 AM)
what about the mecca meteor stone? aka black rock?
millions of moslem bow down in it's direction.

LOLWUT???????
*
wrong. muslims dont worship the kaaba. only worship God. this is buddhish thread so you can google explain regarding this
unknown warrior
post Aug 19 2010, 12:54 AM

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QUOTE(Hamas @ Aug 19 2010, 12:53 AM)
wrong. muslims dont worship the kaaba. only worship God. this is buddhish thread so you can google explain regarding this
*
sounds exactly like what you just criticize the Buddhist about worshiping stone.
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 19 2010, 12:56 AM

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Closing tonight. You guys seem to be in an argumentative mood.


firefawkes
post Aug 19 2010, 09:33 AM

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As long as you guys and girls can be more matured or serious bout the questions, i will answer.

will list the most asked questions on the 1st post, i will not answer repetitive or similar question.

this section is strictly Q&A, its debatable, but if you wanna talk kok bout it, please go Joe's thread and bincang. im not gonna be here 24/7 to bincang bincang.

so mods, if there is any weird post here that doesnt belong here, ill report it

wokay, ask away

Question List: (updates every day)
tatabun
post Aug 19 2010, 09:34 AM

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wait2, sorry to barge,, are you by any chance icyfawkes?
deanmalenko
post Aug 19 2010, 09:34 AM

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how many time u pray a day?


Added on August 19, 2010, 9:35 amand how?



This post has been edited by deanmalenko: Aug 19 2010, 09:35 AM
Mr.Docter
post Aug 19 2010, 09:35 AM

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hey TS, serious question here.

mind describing Buddhism in your own words? simpler better smile.gif
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post Aug 19 2010, 09:36 AM

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hello TS, once i heard from a friend of mine. He said in Buddhism, they beleive in rebirth. How is that so.?
firefawkes
post Aug 19 2010, 09:36 AM

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QUOTE(Mr.Docter @ Aug 19 2010, 09:35 AM)
hey TS, serious question here.

mind describing Buddhism in your own words? simpler better smile.gif
*
way of life
SUSitanium
post Aug 19 2010, 09:36 AM

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Where is Joe?
harrychoo
post Aug 19 2010, 09:37 AM

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How to achieve enlightenment? Both Zen and Pure Land way
firefawkes
post Aug 19 2010, 09:39 AM

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QUOTE(KyLe91 @ Aug 19 2010, 09:36 AM)
hello TS, once i heard from a friend of mine. He said in Buddhism, they beleive in rebirth. How is that so.?
*
yes, we do believe in rebirth, why? because we believe in the existence of Karma. It is due to Karma that we exist in the plains (human, animal, celestials, demons etc etc)
^KamilskaZ^
post Aug 19 2010, 09:39 AM

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what mean aum aum?
Mr.Docter
post Aug 19 2010, 09:39 AM

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QUOTE(deanmalenko @ Aug 19 2010, 09:34 AM)
how many time u pray a day?


Added on August 19, 2010, 9:35 amand how?
*
oh and this question too!
soul2soul
post Aug 19 2010, 09:40 AM

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Buddhism is like the movie Matrix by Keanu Reave.

We all trapped inside this system called Samsara for infinite past and future, all victims of our own cause effect. Life after life we exist, sometimes at good places, but mostly at bad places due to this.

Buddha is like Neo - he figured all these out, and he taught a doctrine called the DHamma, which is something that if one practices, will eventually liberate him from Samsara.


People who followed him, and practiced this dhamma, and found emancipation are called the Sangha (ariyas)


So the Tripple Gem in buddhism means

1. Buddha
2. Dhamma
3. Sangha

Succinct?

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 19 2010, 09:42 AM
SUSKyLe91
post Aug 19 2010, 09:40 AM

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How do Buddhists feel about racism?

I mean diff religion have diff definitions rightt?
firefawkes
post Aug 19 2010, 09:41 AM

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QUOTE(deanmalenko @ Aug 19 2010, 09:34 AM)
how many time u pray a day?


Added on August 19, 2010, 9:35 amand how?
*
which type of prayer are you talking, we have so many types of prayer, if you are talking bout main daily prayers for the mass, we have mainly 2

morning prayers
night prayers

not inclusive of minor prayers
Mr.Docter
post Aug 19 2010, 09:41 AM

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QUOTE(firefawkes @ Aug 19 2010, 09:39 AM)
yes, we do believe in rebirth, why? because we believe in the existence of Karma. It is due to Karma that we exist in the plains (human, animal, celestials, demons etc etc)
*
so in any mean, you people don't know what is your previous life and what is your after life like right?

in other word - it just holding on faith of believing on the religion, right bro?
lalalee
post Aug 19 2010, 09:42 AM

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why your god is bald?
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post Aug 19 2010, 09:43 AM

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QUOTE(firefawkes @ Aug 19 2010, 09:41 AM)
which type of prayer are you talking, we have so many types of prayer, if you are talking bout main daily prayers for the mass, we have mainly 2

morning prayers
night prayers

not inclusive of minor prayers
*
em

and how?
have something that "must read" or "must do"?in muslin we got bismilah something like that

soul2soul
post Aug 19 2010, 09:43 AM

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QUOTE(KyLe91 @ Aug 19 2010, 09:40 AM)
How do Buddhists feel about racism?

I mean diff religion have diff definitions rightt?
*
Eventually all will die and become bones. So race matters?
soul2soul
post Aug 19 2010, 09:44 AM

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QUOTE(KyLe91 @ Aug 19 2010, 09:36 AM)
hello TS, once i heard from a friend of mine. He said in Buddhism, they beleive in rebirth. How is that so.?
*
Yes. What do you mean how?
soul2soul
post Aug 19 2010, 09:46 AM

To the end of suffering!
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QUOTE(deanmalenko @ Aug 19 2010, 09:43 AM)
em

and how?
have something that "must read" or "must do"?in muslin we got bismilah something like that
*
Depends on the tradition.

Theravada no prayer one, as there is no one to pray to (buddha already passed away). Mental culture (meditation) yes...

everything is about the mind eventually.

smile.gif
soul2soul
post Aug 19 2010, 09:47 AM

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QUOTE(Mr.Docter @ Aug 19 2010, 09:41 AM)
so in any mean, you people don't know what is your previous life and what is your after life like right?

in other word - it just holding on faith of believing on the religion, right bro?
*
Got people can see one. But you don't believe... hard to tell wor..
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post Aug 19 2010, 09:47 AM

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QUOTE(KyLe91 @ Aug 19 2010, 09:40 AM)
How do Buddhists feel about racism?

I mean diff religion have diff definitions rightt?
*
i do not in any way represent Buddhism in answering this question

but imho, this is more of a personal question, as Buddhism is a way of life, the Truth, its not a living being that "judge"

but to clear abit of your doubts, back in India, and even now, there exist a caste system

Brahma's in those days, would never accept the lower caste into their teachings

but the Buddha does not judge the others by caste, he accepted them into his teachings, and treated them equally

im just answering this in a short way, if you want to know more, you can start by reading the biography of the Buddha for a clearer picture

the Buddha's 10 main disciples were from all different types of background
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 09:47 AM

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Hi TS.. I heard Buddhism said its just a teaching. But somehow, got supernatural stuff like rebirth, karma etc. So is Buddhist lying?
soul2soul
post Aug 19 2010, 09:48 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 19 2010, 09:47 AM)
Hi TS.. I heard Buddhism said its just a teaching. But somehow, got supernatural stuff like rebirth, karma etc. So is Buddhist lying?
*
OMG, the troll is back. Warning!
Shadow Kun
post Aug 19 2010, 09:48 AM

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is the main objective of buddhist in the end is to cease to exist?
chezzball
post Aug 19 2010, 09:49 AM

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how do i becum a god?
soul2soul
post Aug 19 2010, 09:49 AM

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QUOTE(Shadow Kun @ Aug 19 2010, 09:48 AM)
is the main objective of buddhist in the end is to cease to exist?
*
Technically speaking - err YES.
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 09:50 AM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 09:48 AM)
OMG, the troll is back. Warning!
*
OMG, the person who cannot answer question is here also... lol

come on la... answer the question. This is not troll. I need to know.
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post Aug 19 2010, 09:50 AM

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how do I become a buddha?
harrychoo
post Aug 19 2010, 09:50 AM

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QUOTE(harrychoo @ Aug 19 2010, 09:37 AM)
How to achieve enlightenment? Both Zen and Pure Land way
*
Nobody answer me? It's the most basic thing and ultimate goal of Buddhism
soul2soul
post Aug 19 2010, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 19 2010, 09:50 AM)
OMG, the person who cannot answer question is here also... lol

come on la... answer the question. This is not troll. I need to know.
*
OMG the troll is asking the question he thinks he already has the answer to.

So how can this old troll like me answer him and change his mind?


Shadow Kun
post Aug 19 2010, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 09:49 AM)
Technically speaking - err  YES.
*
i see. thank you.
Deimos Tel`Arin
post Aug 19 2010, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(Shadow Kun @ Aug 19 2010, 09:48 AM)
is the main objective of buddhist in the end is to cease to exist?
*

cease to exist in the 6 planes of existence in which the cycles of birth and rebirth occur.

gods realm > "heaven"
demi-gods realm > "heaven"

human realm > "earth"
animal realm > "earth"
hungry ghost realm > "earth"

hell realm > "burning hells"



to achieve enlightenment and ascend into higher planes of existence.
to escape from this maze we call earth.
chezzball
post Aug 19 2010, 09:51 AM

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how can i pray so that i can win a lot money jackpots and lottery? kthxbai
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 09:52 AM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 09:51 AM)
OMG the troll is asking the question he thinks he already has the answer to.

So how can this old troll like me answer him and change his mind?
*
what he think does not matter. Its what your answer that might change his mind.
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post Aug 19 2010, 09:52 AM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Aug 19 2010, 09:51 AM)
how can i pray so that i can win a lot money jackpots and lottery? kthxbai
*
^
Now this is troll.
SUSrizq
post Aug 19 2010, 09:52 AM

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QUOTE(Deimos Tel`Arin @ Aug 19 2010, 09:51 AM)
cease to exist in the 6 planes of existence in which the cycles of birth and rebirth occur.

gods realm > "heaven"
demi-gods realm > "heaven"

human realm > "earth"
animal realm > "earth"
hungry ghost realm > "earth"

hell realm > "burning hells"
to achieve enlightenment and ascend into higher planes of existence.
to escape from this maze we call earth.
*
but I thought there are no gods in buddha's teaching?
firefawkes
post Aug 19 2010, 09:53 AM

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QUOTE(Mr.Docter @ Aug 19 2010, 09:41 AM)
so in any mean, you people don't know what is your previous life and what is your after life like right?

in other word - it just holding on faith of believing on the religion, right bro?
*
it wasnt a religion to begin with bro, it's more like do you believe in "your" Karma?

your Karma determines what your next life is gonna be, hence the "cultivation" on your current life and your future to strive for the Truth

your Karma obstructs your cultivation

as for the knowledge of your past life, with enough cultivation, you can tap into the memories of your past life (related to "supernatural powers")
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 09:54 AM

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QUOTE(rizq @ Aug 19 2010, 09:52 AM)
but I thought there are no gods in buddha's teaching?
*
god is nothing more like dewa dewi. They make mistake, they become human.

like human make mistake then reborn as rat.
CyberSetan
post Aug 19 2010, 09:54 AM

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Question: - How is the marriage law in Buddhism? Can a Buddhist marry a Hindu or a Taoist or a Jain?

This post has been edited by CyberSetan: Aug 19 2010, 09:56 AM
Shadow Kun
post Aug 19 2010, 09:54 AM

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QUOTE(Deimos Tel`Arin @ Aug 19 2010, 09:51 AM)
cease to exist in the 6 planes of existence in which the cycles of birth and rebirth occur.

gods realm > "heaven"
demi-gods realm > "heaven"

human realm > "earth"
animal realm > "earth"
hungry ghost realm > "earth"

hell realm > "burning hells"
to achieve enlightenment and ascend into higher planes of existence.
to escape from this maze we call earth.
*
which one is the highest plane of existence?
which plane does not have the cycles of birth and rebirth?


SUSrizq
post Aug 19 2010, 09:55 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 19 2010, 09:54 AM)
god is nothing more like dewa dewi. They make mistake, they become human.

like human make mistake then reborn as rat.
*
all the dewa dewis are buddhist? shocking.gif
firefawkes
post Aug 19 2010, 09:55 AM

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QUOTE(lalalee @ Aug 19 2010, 09:42 AM)
why your god is bald?
*
he wasnt

he has a really cool hair

it was actually very curly, naturally(not kidding)
deanmalenko
post Aug 19 2010, 09:55 AM

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ya

and how u get ur knowledge about budha?

there was no pendidikan budha right
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 09:55 AM

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QUOTE(firefawkes @ Aug 19 2010, 09:53 AM)
it wasnt a religion to begin with bro, it's more like do you believe in "your" Karma?

your Karma determines what your next life is gonna be, hence the "cultivation" on your current life and your future to strive for the Truth

your Karma obstructs your cultivation

as for the knowledge of your past life, with enough cultivation, you can tap into the memories of your past life (related to "supernatural powers")
*
it is claimed that supernatural is not part of Buddhism.. so what now? Buddhism also got supernatural?

with supernatural, come with faith right?

so now it needs faith to believe in religion right?

so now its the same as other religion that needs faith right?

so buddhism = religion right?

oh god, pls la.. if its religion, just say it is religion...
ayamkambing
post Aug 19 2010, 09:55 AM

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Advise to give you:

1) For buddhism thread, put in GROUP tag, as in christian and islam. Once u do this, no trolls go in

2) http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1520928 shows how stupid joe_mamak is. He didnt heed my advise of putting in a GROUP tag, but put in serious talk instead...and in the end, all he got was butthurt trolls

3) Dont be as stupid as joe_mamak.


Shadow Kun
post Aug 19 2010, 09:56 AM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 09:49 AM)
Technically speaking - err  YES.
*
err sorry one more question?
did buddha already achieved this?
ceasing to exist?
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 09:56 AM

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QUOTE(rizq @ Aug 19 2010, 09:55 AM)
all the dewa dewis are buddhist?  shocking.gif
*
it is claimed that everyone is buddhist (since buddhism does not have label)...

if u're good human, u're good buddhist....

so a good dewa is good buddhist dewa... mindfucuk right?
firefawkes
post Aug 19 2010, 09:57 AM

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oh damn...so many ppl answering for me now?
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post Aug 19 2010, 09:57 AM

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is there any god(s) in budhism? or that flying monkey is one of it?
Mr.Docter
post Aug 19 2010, 09:58 AM

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QUOTE(firefawkes @ Aug 19 2010, 09:55 AM)
he wasnt

he has a really cool hair

it was actually very curly, naturally(not kidding)
*
woaa seriously? u got any picture? sorry and ignore if its offensive. i dont mean that... sweat.gif
CyberSetan
post Aug 19 2010, 09:58 AM

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QUOTE(CyberSetan @ Aug 19 2010, 09:54 AM)
Question: - How is the marriage law in Buddhism? Can a Buddhist marry a Hindu or a Taoist or a Jain?
*
My question please~ Tell me~
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post Aug 19 2010, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(firefawkes @ Aug 19 2010, 09:57 AM)
oh damn...so many ppl answering for me now?
*
there's a lot of people know buddhism...

QUOTE(kurikuraX @ Aug 19 2010, 09:57 AM)
is there any god(s) in budhism? or that flying monkey is one of it?
*
pls la.. read back... only got 3 pages... dun troll ok???
firefawkes
post Aug 19 2010, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(ayamkambing @ Aug 19 2010, 09:55 AM)
Advise to give you:

1) For buddhism thread, put in GROUP tag, as in christian and islam. Once u do this, no trolls go in

2) http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1520928 shows how stupid joe_mamak is. He didnt heed my advise of putting in a GROUP tag, but put in serious talk instead...and in the end, all he got was butthurt trolls

3) Dont be as stupid as joe_mamak.
*
not related to thread but no

i would not turn this into a group thread, its a serious talk thread

group tags dont save your arse from getting trolled, dunno where you learn that from
ecchisama
post Aug 19 2010, 09:59 AM

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Buddhism and Hinduism there some similarities there exist differences between the two religions. does hinduism come from buddhims or vice versa.
Deimos Tel`Arin
post Aug 19 2010, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(Shadow Kun @ Aug 19 2010, 09:54 AM)
which one is the highest plane of existence?
which plane does not have the cycles of birth and rebirth?
*

all the 6 planes i mentioned earlier are subject to cycles of birth and rebirth oh.
must ascend higher.

QUOTE(rizq @ Aug 19 2010, 09:55 AM)
all the dewa dewis are buddhist?  shocking.gif
*

no, them dewa and semi-dewa in the heaven realm still need to cultivate one.
not buddha yet.
still can reincarnate one.

refer to "mulan" story.
mulan was a sky soldier in heaven realm that got reincarnate as a lady in china, ancient war times.

QUOTE(Shadow Kun @ Aug 19 2010, 09:56 AM)
err sorry one more question?
did buddha already achieved this?
ceasing to exist?
*

yes, buddha amitabha achieved enlightenment and ascended above the 6 realms of cycle of birth and rebirth.

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post Aug 19 2010, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(CyberSetan @ Aug 19 2010, 09:58 AM)
My question please~ Tell me~
*
buddhism is just label.. u can marry a malay and NOT convert to Muslim too....
soul2soul
post Aug 19 2010, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 19 2010, 09:52 AM)
what he think does not matter. Its what your answer that might change his mind.
*
A full cup is hard to teach. Much you have to learn my young apprentice.
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post Aug 19 2010, 09:59 AM

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is the chinese 18 level hell come from it, or the Tao?

if not, what's it's "afterlife" believe/sys ?
Mr.Docter
post Aug 19 2010, 09:59 AM

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and another thing, what is Buddhism view about sex? are you allow to have sex before marriage?

i am asking in term of religion, not nowadays trend.
chezzball
post Aug 19 2010, 10:00 AM

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in buddhism i herd gambling is illegal. why cainis so love to gamble?

if i pray to god ask for lucky number, will god give me?
Instant_noodle
post Aug 19 2010, 10:00 AM

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QUOTE(CyberSetan @ Aug 19 2010, 09:54 AM)
Question: - How is the marriage law in Buddhism? Can a Buddhist marry a Hindu or a Taoist or a Jain?
*

no restriction, of coz

but then again some of those marriage just short lived when one side start nagging and forcing people to follow the 'books'.

no, i'm not blind shooting muslims becoz peeps needs to convert b4 marrying one another; i'm talking about 'another' religion.
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post Aug 19 2010, 10:00 AM

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QUOTE(firefawkes @ Aug 19 2010, 09:59 AM)
not related to thread but no

i would not turn this into a group thread, its a serious talk thread

group tags dont save your arse from getting trolled, dunno where you learn that from
*
it does...

if its group thread, I dun even want to talk in it... since its group mah...

but this title dun deserve group thread... it's too generall...
ayamkambing
post Aug 19 2010, 10:01 AM

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QUOTE(firefawkes @ Aug 19 2010, 09:57 AM)
oh damn...so many ppl answering for me now?
*
HEY!!!!!

your brother icyfawkes kena ban izzit? I thought there should be another one call waterfawkes? then woodfawkes?
Shadow Kun
post Aug 19 2010, 10:01 AM

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QUOTE(Deimos Tel`Arin @ Aug 19 2010, 09:59 AM)
all the 6 planes i mentioned earlier are subject to cycles of birth and rebirth oh.
must ascend higher.

no, them dewa and semi-dewa in the heaven realm still need to cultivate one.
not buddha yet.
still can reincarnate one.

refer to "mulan" story.
mulan was a sky soldier in heaven realm that got reincarnate as a lady in china, ancient war times.

yes, buddha amitabha achieved enlightenment and ascended above the 6 realms of cycle of birth and rebirth.
*
what is above the 6 realms?
is it not nothingness?
like i said before, cease to exist?
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 10:02 AM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 09:59 AM)
A full cup is hard to teach. Much you have to learn my young apprentice.
*
earth shattering answer will displace all the water in the cup my dear...

QUOTE(Mr.Docter @ Aug 19 2010, 09:59 AM)
and another thing, what is Buddhism view about sex? are you allow to have sex before marriage?

i am asking in term of religion, not nowadays trend.
*
same as Islam... what do u think?
harrychoo
post Aug 19 2010, 10:02 AM

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This thread is fail if one can't even answer how to achieve enlightenment by using Zen way and Pure Land way
firefawkes
post Aug 19 2010, 10:02 AM

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QUOTE(Mr.Docter @ Aug 19 2010, 09:58 AM)
woaa seriously? u got any picture? sorry and ignore if its offensive. i dont mean that... sweat.gif
*
no worries, just google it

here you go, i just grabbed a random image

user posted image
ayamkambing
post Aug 19 2010, 10:02 AM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Aug 19 2010, 10:00 AM)
in buddhism i herd gambling is illegal. why cainis so love to gamble?

if i pray to god ask for lucky number, will god give me?
*
90% chinese are not buddhists by devotion. Just by face only. Mostly all tao people


yeezai
post Aug 19 2010, 10:03 AM

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QUOTE(harrychoo @ Aug 19 2010, 10:02 AM)
This thread is fail if one can't even answer how to achieve enlightenment by using Zen way and Pure Land way
*
if one can answer that one wont be here attached to /k ...
chezzball
post Aug 19 2010, 10:03 AM

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QUOTE(ayamkambing @ Aug 19 2010, 10:02 AM)
90% chinese are not buddhists by devotion. Just by face only. Mostly all tao people
*
but their IC their info all when agama all is buddhist de woh..
isn't this misleading liao?

like we christian, we proudly call ourselves christian.

why buddhist so hypocrite wan... is taoist but act buddhist
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 10:04 AM

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QUOTE(harrychoo @ Aug 19 2010, 10:02 AM)
This thread is fail if one can't even answer how to achieve enlightenment by using Zen way and Pure Land way
*
just go become monk lor...hahahahah

QUOTE(ayamkambing @ Aug 19 2010, 10:02 AM)
90% chinese are not buddhists by devotion. Just by face only. Mostly all tao people
*
troll also u want to answer...lollolol
CyberSetan
post Aug 19 2010, 10:05 AM

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ok..... this thread is fast becoming troll heaven
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 10:05 AM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Aug 19 2010, 10:03 AM)
but their IC their info all when agama all is buddhist de woh..
isn't this misleading liao?

like we christian, we proudly call ourselves christian.

why buddhist so hypocrite wan... is taoist but act buddhist
*
come on la... Malaysia sucks... dun drag buddhism into the stupidity in Malaysia...

i mean, no choice for atheist also right? since god not exist (not proven anyway),
why they still wanna put kepercayaan kepada tuhan ???? and why no atheist in IC?
harrychoo
post Aug 19 2010, 10:05 AM

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QUOTE(yeezai @ Aug 19 2010, 10:03 AM)
if one can answer that one wont be here attached to /k ...
*
it can be answered, just that it is hard to achieve.
firefawkes
post Aug 19 2010, 10:05 AM

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QUOTE(harrychoo @ Aug 19 2010, 10:02 AM)
This thread is fail if one can't even answer how to achieve enlightenment by using Zen way and Pure Land way
*
i have a job and a life thank you, and a bloody flood control, have patience my dear

enlightenment is attained through life times of cultivation, there is no shortcut, each way has its methodology in attaining the same goal

same basics, just different ways(path)

keyword: cultivation, no shortcuts
ayamkambing
post Aug 19 2010, 10:06 AM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Aug 19 2010, 10:03 AM)
but their IC their info all when agama all is buddhist de woh..
isn't this misleading liao?

like we christian, we proudly call ourselves christian.

why buddhist so hypocrite wan... is taoist but act buddhist
*
Because they worship tao, tao tell them to bluff ppl put buddhist la. its all pre planned. laugh.gif

buddhist no hypocrite la. since its not religion also. its way of life. so all campur aduk all also boleh icon_rolleyes.gif
firefawkes
post Aug 19 2010, 10:07 AM

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QUOTE(ayamkambing @ Aug 19 2010, 10:04 AM)
PLU group threads, chrisitan group threads, islam group threads, PD group threads, hakka group threads...etc.

very little trolls.

You need to lurk more la, little man. I learn it all from experience by observation.


Added on August 19, 2010, 10:04 amAnd if this isn't a group thread, so its a religious thread...hence its against the forum rules

I'm reporting this soon.
*
no promotion, just Q & A

reported for bot staying on topic

thank you, have a nice day
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post Aug 19 2010, 10:07 AM

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nobody reply me..hey walleey walleyyy?
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post Aug 19 2010, 10:07 AM

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QUOTE(Shadow Kun @ Aug 19 2010, 10:01 AM)
what is above the 6 realms?
is it not nothingness?
like i said before, cease to exist?
*

well, what lies above the 6 realms, i dunno liao.
and no, i dun think it is nothingness.

just higher planes of existence i think.


ceased to exist in the 6 lower planes of existence.

dewa
semi dewa
manusia
binatang
hantu lapar
neraka


still exist in the higher realms.
ayamkambing
post Aug 19 2010, 10:08 AM

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QUOTE(firefawkes @ Aug 19 2010, 10:02 AM)
no worries, just google it

here you go, i just grabbed a random image

user posted image
*
Typical indian man hair...all curly

but this one is more like braided, but why the chingky eyes and facial features?

buddha is an INDIAN! not a chinese!
harrychoo
post Aug 19 2010, 10:08 AM

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QUOTE(firefawkes @ Aug 19 2010, 10:05 AM)
i have a job and a life thank you, and a bloody flood control, have patience my dear

enlightenment is attained through life times of cultivation, there is no shortcut, each way has its methodology in attaining the same goal

same basics, just different ways(path)

keyword: cultivation, no shortcuts
*
I believe the answer is not that simple rolleyes.gif
SUSHidan
post Aug 19 2010, 10:08 AM

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Just want to verify something. Buddhist can eat beef right? Only those who pray to Kun Yim cannot right?
chezzball
post Aug 19 2010, 10:08 AM

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ohh... so any TAOists here?

I know the TAO japanese buffet in kota damansara.. very nais. yumm
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 10:09 AM

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QUOTE(Hidan @ Aug 19 2010, 10:08 AM)
Just want to verify something. Buddhist can eat beef right? Only those who pray to Kun Yim cannot right?
*
Buddhist can eat everything... pork, beef, can eat human also.... but cannot kill la...
chezzball
post Aug 19 2010, 10:09 AM

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QUOTE(Hidan @ Aug 19 2010, 10:08 AM)
Just want to verify something. Buddhist can eat beef right? Only those who pray to Kun Yim cannot right?
*
buddhsit any meat aso cannot eat
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 10:09 AM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Aug 19 2010, 10:08 AM)
ohh... so any TAOists here?

I know the TAO japanese buffet in kota damansara.. very nais. yumm
*
Can someone report chezzball? she like to troll Buddhism topic....
ecchisama
post Aug 19 2010, 10:09 AM

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no one answer my quest hmm.gif
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 10:10 AM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Aug 19 2010, 10:09 AM)
buddhsit any meat aso cannot eat
*
pls la... dun mislead people...omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! pls hang this lady...

Buddhist can eat meat...for the last time.......BUDDHIST CAN EAT MEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kurikuraX
post Aug 19 2010, 10:10 AM

this section is optional
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the samis should not wearing slipper when they walk rite? but why i saw many of them wearing NIKE shoes at KLCC?
firefawkes
post Aug 19 2010, 10:11 AM

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QUOTE(ayamkambing @ Aug 19 2010, 10:08 AM)
Typical indian man hair...all curly

but this one is more like braided, but why the chingky eyes and facial features?

buddha is an INDIAN! not a chinese!
*
yes, he is indian, he was born in India, the Buddha was an indian prince
firefawkes
post Aug 19 2010, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(kurikuraX @ Aug 19 2010, 10:10 AM)
the samis should not wearing slipper when they walk rite? but why i saw many of them wearing NIKE shoes at KLCC?
*
those arent monks....


ayamkambing
post Aug 19 2010, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(harrychoo @ Aug 19 2010, 10:08 AM)
I believe the answer is not that simple  rolleyes.gif
*
Answer is simple. You live your life out off your karma. cultivation for 100000 years in life of rebirths.
chezzball
post Aug 19 2010, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 19 2010, 10:10 AM)
pls la... dun mislead people...omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! pls hang this lady...

Buddhist can eat meat...for the last time.......BUDDHIST CAN EAT MEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*
if buddhist can eat meat, why monk kenot eat meat?

pls explain to me
yeezai
post Aug 19 2010, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 19 2010, 10:10 AM)
pls la... dun mislead people...omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! pls hang this lady...

Buddhist can eat meat...for the last time.......BUDDHIST CAN EAT MEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*
i concur to dis...alot buddhist being mislead dat meat is forbidden...

QUOTE(ayamkambing @ Aug 19 2010, 10:10 AM)
Reported this thread as a dupe thread of http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1520928

and since its not a group thread, its against forum rules as all religious stuffs belongs in All About Religion in RWI.

Have a nice holiday.


Added on August 19, 2010, 10:10 amAlso reporting firefawkes as dupe of joe_mamak.
*
counter reported dis as dis is a group thread and doesnt belong in RWI ..
lynster
post Aug 19 2010, 10:13 AM

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Dear TS, imma Christian but my facha is a Buddhist. Will we be ever to meet again in afterlife?
ayamkambing
post Aug 19 2010, 10:14 AM

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QUOTE(firefawkes @ Aug 19 2010, 09:33 AM)
As long as you guys and girls can be more matured or serious bout the questions, i will answer.

will list the most asked questions on the 1st post, i will not answer repetitive or similar question.

this section is strictly Q&A, its debatable, but if you wanna talk kok bout it, please go Joe's thread and bincang. im not gonna be here 24/7 to bincang bincang.

so mods, if there is any weird post here that doesnt belong here, ill report it

wokay, ask away

Question List: (updates every day)
*
Joe's thread is exactly the same as this thread for Q&A

dupe thread here.
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 10:14 AM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Aug 19 2010, 10:12 AM)
if buddhist can eat meat, why monk kenot eat meat?

pls explain to me
*
those are Chinese monks.....

and Chinese in China, cannot beg because begging is very low level for Chinese...

so they need to cook... if need to cook, they cannot kill... so need to eat vege only la...

pls ask la.. dun answer wrongly...
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 10:15 AM

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QUOTE(lynster @ Aug 19 2010, 10:13 AM)
Dear TS, imma Christian but my facha is a Buddhist. Will we be ever to meet again in afterlife?
*
there's no afterlife....

After you're dead, you're dead. That's it. Zit. Nil.
harrychoo
post Aug 19 2010, 10:15 AM

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QUOTE(ayamkambing @ Aug 19 2010, 10:12 AM)
Answer is simple. You live your life out off your karma. cultivation for 100000 years in life of rebirths.
*
My question is HOW?
Shadow Kun
post Aug 19 2010, 10:15 AM

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QUOTE(Deimos Tel`Arin @ Aug 19 2010, 10:07 AM)
well, what lies above the 6 realms, i dunno liao.
and no, i dun think it is nothingness.

just higher planes of existence i think.
ceased to exist in the 6 lower planes of existence.

dewa
semi dewa
manusia
binatang
hantu lapar
neraka
still exist in the higher realms.
*
so buddha didn't explain whats beyond the 6 realms huh? that's ok.

on the other hand i think soul2soul believe that above the 6 realms there are nothingness. different school of thought? do correct me if im wrong s2s.
ayamkambing
post Aug 19 2010, 10:16 AM

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QUOTE(yeezai @ Aug 19 2010, 10:12 AM)
i concur to dis...alot buddhist being mislead dat meat is forbidden...
counter reported dis as dis is a group thread and doesnt belong in RWI ..
*
Dude, don't you read?

I've told firefawkes to set this as a group thread, but in return he reported me for advising him on that and remained adamant on not putting in group thread. So i had to report this thread as a dupe thread of joe_mamaks and a religious one, which shouldnt be here.

Use your brains for once.
firefawkes
post Aug 19 2010, 10:16 AM

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QUOTE(harrychoo @ Aug 19 2010, 10:08 AM)
I believe the answer is not that simple  rolleyes.gif
*
the answer is simple, but can you do it?
chezzball
post Aug 19 2010, 10:16 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 19 2010, 10:14 AM)
those are Chinese monks.....

and Chinese in China, cannot beg because begging is very low level for Chinese...

so they need to cook... if need to cook, they cannot kill... so need to eat vege only la...

pls ask la.. dun answer wrongly...
*
so meaning Thai monks can eat meat?
soul2soul
post Aug 19 2010, 10:16 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 19 2010, 10:02 AM)
earth shattering answer will displace all the water in the cup my dear...
Depends on the question.

Right question leads to right answers. QUestions pertaining to the state of the universe are unwise questions.
firefawkes
post Aug 19 2010, 10:17 AM

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QUOTE(ayamkambing @ Aug 19 2010, 10:16 AM)
Dude, don't you read?

I've told firefawkes to set this as a group thread, but in return he reported me for advising him on that and remained adamant on not putting in group thread. So i had to report this thread as a dupe thread of joe_mamaks and a religious one, which shouldnt be here.

Use your brains for once.
*
i did not report that 1st post of yours until the 2nd, you have been warned

reported, again
ecchisama
post Aug 19 2010, 10:17 AM

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Buddhism and Hinduism there some similarities there exist differences between the two religions. does hinduism come from buddhims or vice versa?

Shadow Kun
post Aug 19 2010, 10:17 AM

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QUOTE(peinsama @ Aug 19 2010, 10:06 AM)
That's my 6 realm
*
sorry but ur 6 realms is no more.
all pwned by narutah.
yeezai
post Aug 19 2010, 10:17 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 19 2010, 10:14 AM)
those are Chinese monks.....

and Chinese in China, cannot beg because begging is very low level for Chinese...

so they need to cook... if need to cook, they cannot kill... so need to eat vege only la...

pls ask la.. dun answer wrongly...
*
since buddism in china is just a branch of the original ones so the teaching has been modified..
birain
post Aug 19 2010, 10:17 AM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Aug 19 2010, 10:00 AM)
in buddhism i herd gambling is illegal. why cainis so love to gamble?

if i pray to god ask for lucky number, will god give me?
*
are you asking about God of Fortune?
ayamkambing
post Aug 19 2010, 10:18 AM

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QUOTE(harrychoo @ Aug 19 2010, 10:15 AM)
My question is HOW?
*
Already answered.

you live off your bad karma. until you can no longer generate karma by cultivation of your consciousness, which takes years.
how to cultivate? you meditate and dont generate anymore bad karma.
maymay
post Aug 19 2010, 10:18 AM

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why ask u, r u a monk?
yeezai
post Aug 19 2010, 10:19 AM

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QUOTE(ayamkambing @ Aug 19 2010, 10:16 AM)
Dude, don't you read?

I've told firefawkes to set this as a group thread, but in return he reported me for advising him on that and remained adamant on not putting in group thread. So i had to report this thread as a dupe thread of joe_mamaks and a religious one, which shouldnt be here.

Use your brains for once.
*
im just saying mang...im pure buddhist i dun rike reporting ppl ...peace...
birain
post Aug 19 2010, 10:19 AM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Aug 19 2010, 10:03 AM)
but their IC their info all when agama all is buddhist de woh..
isn't this misleading liao?

like we christian, we proudly call ourselves christian.

why buddhist so hypocrite wan... is taoist but act buddhist
*
you have to ask the goverment about this. they mislabel it and it stuck in the forms for years.
ayamkambing
post Aug 19 2010, 10:19 AM

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QUOTE(firefawkes @ Aug 19 2010, 10:17 AM)
i did not report that 1st post of yours until the 2nd, you have been warned

reported, again
*
Why did you report my 2nd? You made a wrong assumption that group thread dont beat trolls, i countered it with facts.

yeezai also wants it to be a group thread, but you're adamant against it.

Go and report all you want. This thread will go down. Its still against rules
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 10:20 AM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Aug 19 2010, 10:16 AM)
so meaning Thai monks can eat meat?
*
it depend...some Thai monk subscribe to Chinese buddhism...

so really depend...

Sri Lanka monk can eat meat....
firefawkes
post Aug 19 2010, 10:20 AM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Aug 19 2010, 10:16 AM)
so meaning Thai monks can eat meat?
*
we eat to survive

thats the basis of life, we do not eat based on desire to eat for its taste

offerings were taken in by the Buddha on his daily alms

sometimes the food he got were meat, fyi, the origins of being vegetarian was introduced by his diciples

(working on something atm, do look up on the origins of vegetarian in Buddhism before blatantly accusing thank you)
soul2soul
post Aug 19 2010, 10:21 AM

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QUOTE(Shadow Kun @ Aug 19 2010, 10:15 AM)
so buddha didn't explain whats beyond the 6 realms huh? that's ok.

on the other hand i think soul2soul believe that above the 6 realms there are nothingness. different school of thought? do correct me if im wrong s2s.
*
Friend,

The abhidhamma says there are 31 realms in this world system, but may differ in other universes, but they will have namely

1. Sensual desire realms
2. Fine Material Realms
3. Immaterial Realms

The Mahayana reclassify this to 6.
The Theravada normally will quote the realms in a more technically way, such as
1. Apayalokas ( the four lowest states)
2. Sugati (happy state of Humans and the devalokas - heavens)
3. Brahmalokas (Fine Material and Immaterial states)

It's just the way different types of tradition re-classify these 31 realms. (for ease to remember)
TSjoe_mamak
post Aug 19 2010, 10:21 AM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 19 2010, 12:56 AM)
Closing tonight.  You guys seem to be in an argumentative mood.
*
Reopened.

Please, no more arguments, debates about Buddhism compared to other religions, trolling, etc.

That Report button is looking rather enticing now.

This post has been edited by joe_mamak: Aug 19 2010, 10:21 AM
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 10:21 AM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 10:16 AM)
Depends on the question.

Right question leads to right answers. QUestions pertaining to the state of the universe are unwise questions.
*
my question is related to Buddhism saying its not religion which I do not agree. Its not state of universe question. doh.gif
CyberSetan
post Aug 19 2010, 10:22 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 19 2010, 10:15 AM)
there's no afterlife....

After you're dead, you're dead. That's it. Zit. Nil.
*
I thought Buddhist believe in the Re-born concept... so wouldn't that mean this concept is also an afterlife - which is ANOTHER LIFE again? or the afterlife being having reached Nirvana?

This post has been edited by CyberSetan: Aug 19 2010, 10:23 AM

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