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Group LYN Buddhism Retreat - SERIOUS TALK, No trolling please

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Joey-kun
post Aug 17 2010, 10:59 AM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 17 2010, 10:52 AM)
was Venerable Mahamoganalla the one who sent food to his mother in hell? didn't realised he died such a horrible death.

my question is, to those bandits who hurt him, will Kamma get back to them too?  hmm.gif
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yes the bandits will get karma back, but Moganalla killed his parents in his previous life by beating them to death, and not only in that last life of his that he died that way but in many previous lives as well.

That is the nature of Karma.

1. Karma is definite in that virtuous actions lead to happiness and non-virtuous to suffering.
2. Karmic imprints increase; the result is greater than the cause.
3. One will never experience a karmic result one did not create the cause for.
4. Karmic causes created are never lost.

So thats why we be very careful of the actions due to the nature of its reprecussion. It does not exhaust itself when it ripens.
Joey-kun
post Aug 17 2010, 11:27 AM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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QUOTE(eXPeri3nc3 @ Aug 17 2010, 11:17 AM)
So if I get you correctly, good karmic seeds and bad ones (that one acquired throughout their lifetimes) will be in tact from since ages till now and will go on?
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correct. They can only be removed using the 4 opponent powers. As long as they are not applied they will always be there. even when you have experienced the effects it will always be there. The 4 powers are:

1) The power of regret: One begins by reflecting on regret; the awareness that actions we have committed bring suffering to ourselves and others. This is not the same as guilt, which implies a negative and helpless state of mind and is not useful, but a sort of "intelligent regret," which is a very positive and creative mental state aimed at correcting the mistake so we won't repeat it.

2) The power of reliance: To correct our mistakes or negative actions directed toward either the Four Jewels or other sentient beings, we take refuge and generate bodhichitta. We rely on the Buddha who is our role model, the dharma that is the teachings of the Buddha, and the sangha.

3) The power of remedy (the antidote): These are positive actions of body, speech, and mind that we do to purify the negativity. This is "building the wall" of good karma. This can include kind deeds, chanting mantras, meditation, etc. and the dedication of the merit of what we have done to help anyone we may have harmed.

4) The power of resolve: This is our ongoing determination to never repeat the negative action and then not doing it again.
Joey-kun
post Aug 18 2010, 09:26 AM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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QUOTE(eXPeri3nc3 @ Aug 17 2010, 11:31 AM)
But to me that does not sound like removing it. More like preventing bad seeds to be planted.

A Brother once told the students in my University in a Dharma Talk that good karmic seeds act as a hook to the door that is going to slam against you (bad karmic seeds), hence preventing one from being slammed by the door (effect). Also he said that it'll all be there until one reached enlightenment.

Well perhaps it can be from a different perspective, but both do does make sense.
*
the steps are to remove the seeds because Karma can come back in 4 different ways. For example a person who kills will be more inclined to kill in his future life and will be born in a place with a lot of violence. I forgot the exact term, need to go back and consult the text tongue.gif

karma is not everything. merits are more important as merits are the inclination to do good rather than just having something good.


QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 17 2010, 11:51 AM)
Some kamma are heavier, like committing matricide or patricide (killing parents), so the effect of this kamma may last a few lifetime like in the case of Ven Mahamoganalla.

Even good kamma that propels beings to the heavenly states (gods) will once day finish and they have to drop down to the human state or the evil destinies sooner or later.

Doing lots of good in this life will help us to be happy here and now, have a calm mind at death, and to reappear in good places after this life terminates.  It's like putting more good kamma in our pockets, so the probability of striking a good kamma is higher.
*
correct but at the time of death you cant control which karma that will ripen so the most familiar karma will take over. But what is more important than just enjoying a smooth life is that we do something more with it rather than just existing.

QUOTE(eXPeri3nc3 @ Aug 17 2010, 12:01 PM)
Oh that's new to me. I never knew Gods that ran out of good karmic deeds / seeds will drop down from their state.

Hmm Karmic stuff so wide.
What you said is in conjunction to the definition of impermanence I guess.

But personally the thought that the BAD karmic seeds will not disappear until reborn into Buddhahood kind of scares me to be honest laugh.gif
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Yep, it is mentioned that only fully enlightened Buddhas can see and calculate a person's karma from start to end. Not even Bodhisattvas and arahats can see the full extent of a person's karma.

QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 17 2010, 01:55 PM)
Theravada suttas (tipitaka). In the Sutta Pitaka it was mentioned that Sakka (king of the gods) paid buddha a visit when he got depressed knowing he was going to die soon as a deva.  There is also a story of a deva who panic after he saw his female playmates all disappear in front of him (apparently all took rebirth in Avici Hell after their kamma as gods finish).

The Abidhamma portion of the Tipitaka gave the lifespan of each gods, from a few million human years to a hundreds of thousands of Aeons (world cycles).

So the gods are not permanent, so warned by the Buddha.
*
It is said that when gods leave the heavenly realm, the suffering of that time is 16 times more of that of Avici, the hottest hell because its like everything is suddenly taken away. Those in the form and formless realms undergo more suffering because they can see where they end up after their good karma exhausts (which is, the hells) and they cant do a thing about it.

and oh yeah it would be helpful to know from you guys which school of Buddhism do we refer to because even though the teachings are the same but the viewpoints and focus on some subjects are noticeably different. It would be easier to reconcile and there will be less misunderstandings.

This post has been edited by Joey-kun: Aug 18 2010, 09:39 AM
Joey-kun
post Aug 18 2010, 11:51 AM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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oh yah not meant as an advertisement but there is a buddhist forum out there that allows troll-free discussions for those that are serious:
http://www.tsemtulku.com/forum

its kinda dead at the moment tho lol.
Joey-kun
post Aug 18 2010, 01:08 PM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 18 2010, 11:52 AM)
LOL. what tradition are you from if I may ask?
*
if i say that i'm in vajrayana what would you say?

however what i study covers both theravarda and mahayana. the key points are still there.
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 12:01 PM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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hmm i like the trolls in this thread.

see how long we can all ignore them coz it does test the mental stability of the Buddhists here huhu.

sadly not much substantial questions yet. still waiting for one
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 12:03 PM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 11:49 AM)
LIke that you want call me nasty?? what i did?

hiaya, tell you to be careful don't cincai tell them .... we buddhists ok if christians want to practice buddhism (more than welcome), but they might have some conflict themselves one....  later the christian trolls will start to come in and disturb already.
*
its fine for people to be buddhist or christian but dont mix them up. they'll get what they want/need from religion if they stick to just one path because they can focus and they wont need to waste time working out and reconciling the clashes.

As Buddhists we should always respect other people's spiritual paths and not downtread them.

also, time to use the troll shield!
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 12:03 PM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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repeat

This post has been edited by Joey-kun: Aug 19 2010, 12:04 PM
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 12:05 PM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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why cant buddhists stop trolling other religions and making fun of them? sometimes even making fun of another tradition of buddhism?

and why are some buddhists so paranoid of cults? why we dont find tibetan buddhists not afraid of cults? hehehehe


Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 12:09 PM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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QUOTE(beatlesalbum @ Aug 19 2010, 12:07 PM)
taoism is a branch of buddhism?
*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism

wiki plox
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 12:10 PM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 19 2010, 12:09 PM)
why are u generalising?  rolleyes.gif  hehehehhehe
*
have you seen the religion thread in RWI? hehehehe

or u terasa pedas ke? why so defensive?

ask me to ask question, when i ask u troll me liddat. thats why i dunwan to ask lorh.

for what. ask edi kena troll by ppl like u.

This post has been edited by Joey-kun: Aug 19 2010, 12:11 PM
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 12:19 PM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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QUOTE(firefawkes @ Aug 19 2010, 12:11 PM)
dahlah tu...dah lah generalize buddhist

admit it la

so i no need sapu krim
*
pedas tak cili?

QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 12:11 PM)
Do you believe orthodoxity has its place in religion ?

I have looked at some of the tibetan buddhism, they are not that different from Theravada. Vipassana and Samatha meditation are found there, with minor adaptation.
All concepts break down in Jhanas and attainment of Nanas. So, whatever differences we have are all just in way of practice and in conceptual basis. But all these concepts break down later... so there isn't a difference at that point.
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yep but we havent reached that stage yet so to us at the moment concepts are important to us at the moment. Lets not look too far..whats in front is more important.

If i were to break your concepts you'd probably get all defensive and angry. That alone proves that we still need those to exist as humans here.

Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 02:04 PM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 12:22 PM)
Try me.
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are you convinced that Karma exists? Is it not one of the requirements of a buddhist?

QUOTE(firefawkes @ Aug 19 2010, 12:23 PM)
yes chili is hot

if it aint hot i aint chili

need cream for that burnt butt of yours?
*
naw my butt is fine. the imaginary burn on my butt only you can see apparently tongue.gif

now children, lets not feed the trolls. they can ask all the dumb questions they like and try to provoke, but the answer dosent help them in any way. Answers that matter are answers that can help them beyond intellectual superficial knowledge. try to look for questions like those.

This post has been edited by Joey-kun: Aug 19 2010, 02:06 PM
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 02:08 PM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 02:04 PM)
Transcendal buddhism (experience based) and intellectual buddhism (debates).

Got a difference. Many love debates.
*
there is no difference between the two. real debates (not the ones here) tests your experience on a particular subject. If you slow down it means you intellectualize. wink.gif Experience gives you knowledge and wisdom, debates verify that they are true and infalliable.

but of course the stuffs here arent debate, just childish trolling.
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 02:19 PM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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hmm what benefit do we get out of talking about the weakness of other people's religions?
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 02:23 PM

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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 19 2010, 02:21 PM)
nothing.
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then lets not talk about their weaknesses okay smile.gif

christians and muslims who read it will think that we are scoffing at them. bad impression to give people.
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 02:24 PM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Aug 19 2010, 02:21 PM)
neh.. zzzxtreme said if i dont get the answer from person A, i shud ask moar from person B ma.

so now person A answer i no und coz a bit shallow, so now i asking for person B lo.
*
when it's too obvious that you just want attention and that your answers can be resolved by just feeding google with the questions, how do you expect people to believe that you're sincerely asking for an answer and not trolling?
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 02:25 PM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 19 2010, 02:24 PM)
ffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

If you dun trust us, why u ask? Some more, give you history lesson why monk eat vege. Now you said u confuse?

Come on la... tell us, what u want?
*
thats a lot of food for the troll. i think he very fat edi. stop feeding hhahaha
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 02:37 PM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Aug 19 2010, 02:35 PM)
so this is how buddhists treat ppl who wanna understand more on their religion la.. no wonder u guise cannot maju.
*
so you find it fun to insult buddhists in their own thread?
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 02:49 PM

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QUOTE(ayamkambing @ Aug 19 2010, 02:45 PM)
The problem here is, war was waged for wealth and resource. Thats the main objective. Religion was used to con people to join in, which would otherwise cause a backlash. Back then, there was no UN, or civility. Dont like your face, i'll kill you. No religion ever called for its members to kill and pillage for wealth and land. Its the opposite. But due to illiteracy among the peasants, it makes it easier for rich corrupt bureaucrats to con more people. Crusades started off as europes' defense to stop onslaught of islamic invaders, which later spiralled out of control for european kings to gain more control over land and resource and using religion conveniently to con more people, by saying that if you join in the war, your sins can be pardoned (which was false in the first place). The main motive here was never for religion.

Same with Islam. The conquest here isn't much to propagate. They have no issue propagating without war. It was waged for securing trade routes, land expansion, wealth, etc.

The reason why "fight the infidels in the name of buddha" is unheard of is because of the dilution of buddhism. There is no such thing as an infidel in buddhism due to that. Its an all-inclusive religion. If its all inclusive, everyone's a member. So it doesn't make sense to use buddhism to control people in cases of war. But people does use buddhism to earn money (fake monks begging for money, sales of amulets with carvings of monks etc) which is also based on the same reason why wars were waged : for resource.
No its not. Its being horny.

Just leave him to me. You guys just focus on buddhism and being kind to each other. Not worthy it to get your hands dirty. My hands are already dirty, so might as well  whistling.gif
*
there has been fighting between mahayana/vajranaya and theravarda going on in sri lanka during the 11th century. In fact statues of Tibetan Buddhas have been found in sri lanka, but according to records many more were melted down to be made as coins. there is also nichiren daishonin convincing the authorities that all the other buddhist schools in japan at that time were impure and corrupt and should be closed.

but thats just that.

This post has been edited by Joey-kun: Aug 19 2010, 02:50 PM

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