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Group LYN Buddhism Retreat - SERIOUS TALK, No trolling please

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SUSgogo2
post Aug 13 2010, 04:15 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 13 2010, 04:11 PM)
if you say reincarnate to soemthing else is possible, then you should logically also include that somethign else can also reincarnate back to the human world, no?
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probably explain the dwindling of animal population


Added on August 13, 2010, 4:16 pm
QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 13 2010, 02:33 PM)
But buddha said no one above him during his enlightenment wor.... he scanned the entire universe for someone to pay respect to, the heavens and until the brahma heavens, he said got no one higher than him in wisdom and in enlightenment. He realized he was the highest, and as suggested by Braha Sahampati, the Buddha paid respect to the Dhamma as all past buddhas did.

smile.gif
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this is supernatural stuff liao...wouldn't it defeat the purpose of Buddhism which said that Buddhism is teaching
and no supernatural involved?

This post has been edited by gogo2: Aug 13 2010, 04:16 PM
SUSgogo2
post Aug 14 2010, 06:59 AM

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QUOTE(randyhow @ Aug 13 2010, 04:21 PM)
if add in animal factor, there's farming industri that breeds food (cow, chicken, rabbit, crocs... etc,etc) with is million more produce per square inch compare to animals that perishing in nature ... so it should be more too.... not less....
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but we destroy environment. Environment consist of not only food... it also have micro-organism. Imagine hectar of green.
How many animal and micro-organism in it...

QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 13 2010, 04:23 PM)
Well it all depends on how deep you want to study buddhism and your aim in life.

If you are only looking for just a way to live happily , then you can live by just the day-to-day practical advice by the buddha like avoid evil, do good, etc.

But if you are looking serious to find out, whether there is such thing as Sotapatti Magga (special event in the stream of the mind that changes a being forever), or whether there is really such thing as the Unconditioned State, then you have to look deeper into the teachings, which contain some 'supernatural' stuffs.

But then, we cannot totally discount these claims. After all, landing on the moon will seem be to supernatural 100 years ago, until actually someone did land on the moon , it became a naturally accepted thing.
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At first, I feel Buddhism is the most logical religion of all. Mana tahu I go deep to study buddhism and it has all sorts
of supernatural things that I found illogical. After that, I just left BUddhism and go into Atheism.

QUOTE(billytong @ Aug 13 2010, 04:38 PM)
I am curious, how many of you guys here actually practice to be "true" Buddhism and be vegetarian.
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TRUE buddhism is begging for food. Vegetarian is not true Buddhism.
SUSgogo2
post Aug 14 2010, 12:15 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 14 2010, 09:00 AM)
and may you find happiness in Atheism.
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do you agree? somehow saying buddhism is
teaching is misleading

QUOTE(teongpeng @ Aug 14 2010, 10:16 AM)
there is no such thing as true buddhism.
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yes there is...in my context...



SUSgogo2
post Aug 14 2010, 04:10 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 14 2010, 12:27 PM)
Do you mean to say you wish the Buddha hadn't taught those things that he did?

If that is the case, what's the difference between the great philosopher the likes of Voltaire , Socrates and Plato?

I , of course, don't agree with you.  smile.gif . Yes, some of the stuffs sound very supernatural . For example - past life. Maybe I will ask you in return, just how certain are you that there is nothing like Past, and future?  The best you could tell, it's a 'maybe', but if you tell me that you know for certain 100% , then you are not being honest like some hardcore egoistic atheist I meet so often.
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i mean, Buddhist shouldn't say their teaching is just philosophy because it ain't. For full Buddhism, you need
to suspend belief.

How I certain? The thing is, as atheist, I don't need to certain about this. Because it never was. And never will.
If supernatural exist, which supernatural is correct? If Buddhism is correct, Christianity is wrong. And vice versa.
All this cannot be proven.

This just make Buddhism failed as much as Christianity in logical and philosophical department.

QUOTE(randyhow @ Aug 14 2010, 12:46 PM)
God in Buddhism is insignificant or none at all, shouldn't it be consider Atheism?


Added on August 14, 2010, 1:06 pm

micro-organism in the forest is much less than those factories (yogurt, beer, wine, sewage treatment ... etc etc)  in terms of production rate per cubic inch (nature rate is fix, man produced is still growing)...
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You're right. When the notion if rebirth is created, they don't have statistic that human population increased. Another proof
that Buddhism is just another religion created by human to understand their nature and environment.
SUSgogo2
post Aug 15 2010, 12:00 AM

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QUOTE(randyhow @ Aug 14 2010, 08:53 PM)
Huh? what make u say on the bolded? To suspend belief? where u learn Buddhism  from ? Journey to the West? Monkey God? or TVB drama?

In which part u are comparing between Buddhism and Christianity on the right or wrong? some concept in both maybe in contradiction but some are compatible... u can't just generally said which is wrong or which is right..
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At first, I learn my Buddhism from books written from well known monk about how to live the Buddha's way.

Then I read from Sutra that being translated to English.

To believe in rebirth, all seeing Buddha, multiple realm etc is to suspend belief.

QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 14 2010, 08:55 PM)
gogo2,

You disagreed with one type of Buddhism,  But, that is NOT the only kind of Buddhism.  Buddhism is not like those Abrahamic religion where there is ONLY one way.

Buddhism do not believe that you have to believe in Buddhism in order to reach enlightenment either.

There are Buddhism that believe re-incarnation and all those supernatural stuff are necessary.  And, there are those like Zen Buddhism that could not care for this.

<<somehow saying buddhism is teaching is misleading>>

Honey to someone is poison to others.  If this does not work for you, do something else.

Fundamentally, Buddhism believe that all the answers are WITHING us. We do not have to look outside to get it.  Now, how do you reach enlightenment, there are many ways.  Pick the one that works for you.

Dreamer
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The fundamental things about answer is within us and all sorts of logical nice to hear things for us who think deeply really
concerns me. Why this thing concerns me?Its because I believe these words only touching the surface of Buddhism.Its very misleading.

In the end, whatever type of Buddhism u go, there's element of suspended belief.

QUOTE(randyhow @ Aug 14 2010, 09:31 PM)
there's nothing wrong with Buddhism being as a creation of human.. Newton's law too a creation of human, it's not totally accurate but still been using till today..
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Did I say anything wrong? LOL... I'm just trying to score a point that religion are human made. Any supernatural stuff like rebirth, multiple realm etc
is just created during that time because people that time are more incline to belief such things.

Now who want to belief such stuff? ONly religionist will belief.For me, as atheist, its all in the mind. You mind have trick you to belief
all this supernatural things is real...
SUSgogo2
post Aug 15 2010, 12:29 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Aug 15 2010, 12:23 AM)
Honestly I don't see any difference between this thread and All about Religion v2 Thread.
Joe, what's the point of having this when the content of discussion is more less similar?
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For me, All about Religion always like Believers (abrahamic religion vs the rest of the world).

While this thread is about Buddhism vs Atheist...

Since Buddhism always like to say they are philosophical but actually they are not if they delve
deeper. This probably the most misleading thing about Buddhism. Lured you in by promising the
most logical religion ever existed.But when you're in and delve deeper, the same supernatural
thing like Christian exist.

At least, Christian are totally honest about it. THey said we're supernatural. Need faith to understand.
But Buddhism instead tell us, hey, no supernatural. All philosophical. Yeah right.
SUSgogo2
post Aug 15 2010, 08:24 AM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 15 2010, 01:49 AM)
One type of Buddhism has supernatural elements.  You DO NOT have to believe in that kind of Buddhism.  You can choose something else.
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There's no type of Buddhism. Every buddhism that you go into will somehow leads you to supernatural stuff. Even the core of it like
rebirth also involve faith because you need to belief that it exist.

Your whole statement just so so typical of evagelism of Buddhism. Very soft approaching. Very nice to hear. Very enlightenening.
But once delve deeper, it is not so. Welcome to Buddhism 101.

QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 15 2010, 02:11 AM)
KNOWING is NEVER the problem.  People KNOW.  They just cannot DO.  Reading more sutras will not help since KNOWING is never the problem to begin with.
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Buddhist just love to tell story. Furthermore, they will spin around and around about their belief until your kepala pusing. That's why
it will make Buddhism very very high level of religion in intelect. I really think almost all Buddhist attain higher intelectual in religion
than Christian.

QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 15 2010, 07:35 AM)
Sigh. I think those people who like to argue on Buddhism should take their case to the religion vs non-religion thread. This thread should serve as the avenue for buddhists who like to discuss about their faith like the Christian lounge.

Enough already.


Added on August 15, 2010, 7:39 am
Yawn. Another versus thread?
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Oh, I thought this is for case against Buddhism?

I thought Christian lounge is in Kopitiam section? THey move here already? OMG...

Sorry sorry..

I thought RWI thread is serious discussion with high intellectuality and high impact and not only one sided. sweat.gif
SUSgogo2
post Aug 15 2010, 09:08 PM

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QUOTE(randyhow @ Aug 15 2010, 04:33 PM)
To gogo2,

1) plz forgive my stupidity, but what do u actually mean of suspend belief?  Temporary not Belief ? or do u mean suspend dis-belief? Temporary Belief?
plz elaborate...
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sorry... its my stupidity... i mean, suspend dis-belief.... in another word, have to suspend reality to belief something
supernatural... oh mai... my engris so bad...

well.. i can't debate anymore because i'm not welcome in this thread...lol
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 09:47 AM

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Hi TS.. I heard Buddhism said its just a teaching. But somehow, got supernatural stuff like rebirth, karma etc. So is Buddhist lying?
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 09:50 AM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 09:48 AM)
OMG, the troll is back. Warning!
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OMG, the person who cannot answer question is here also... lol

come on la... answer the question. This is not troll. I need to know.
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 09:52 AM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 09:51 AM)
OMG the troll is asking the question he thinks he already has the answer to.

So how can this old troll like me answer him and change his mind?
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what he think does not matter. Its what your answer that might change his mind.
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 09:52 AM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Aug 19 2010, 09:51 AM)
how can i pray so that i can win a lot money jackpots and lottery? kthxbai
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^
Now this is troll.
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 09:54 AM

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QUOTE(rizq @ Aug 19 2010, 09:52 AM)
but I thought there are no gods in buddha's teaching?
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god is nothing more like dewa dewi. They make mistake, they become human.

like human make mistake then reborn as rat.
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 09:55 AM

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QUOTE(firefawkes @ Aug 19 2010, 09:53 AM)
it wasnt a religion to begin with bro, it's more like do you believe in "your" Karma?

your Karma determines what your next life is gonna be, hence the "cultivation" on your current life and your future to strive for the Truth

your Karma obstructs your cultivation

as for the knowledge of your past life, with enough cultivation, you can tap into the memories of your past life (related to "supernatural powers")
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it is claimed that supernatural is not part of Buddhism.. so what now? Buddhism also got supernatural?

with supernatural, come with faith right?

so now it needs faith to believe in religion right?

so now its the same as other religion that needs faith right?

so buddhism = religion right?

oh god, pls la.. if its religion, just say it is religion...
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 09:56 AM

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QUOTE(rizq @ Aug 19 2010, 09:55 AM)
all the dewa dewis are buddhist?  shocking.gif
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it is claimed that everyone is buddhist (since buddhism does not have label)...

if u're good human, u're good buddhist....

so a good dewa is good buddhist dewa... mindfucuk right?
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(firefawkes @ Aug 19 2010, 09:57 AM)
oh damn...so many ppl answering for me now?
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there's a lot of people know buddhism...

QUOTE(kurikuraX @ Aug 19 2010, 09:57 AM)
is there any god(s) in budhism? or that flying monkey is one of it?
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pls la.. read back... only got 3 pages... dun troll ok???
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(CyberSetan @ Aug 19 2010, 09:58 AM)
My question please~ Tell me~
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buddhism is just label.. u can marry a malay and NOT convert to Muslim too....
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 10:00 AM

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QUOTE(firefawkes @ Aug 19 2010, 09:59 AM)
not related to thread but no

i would not turn this into a group thread, its a serious talk thread

group tags dont save your arse from getting trolled, dunno where you learn that from
*
it does...

if its group thread, I dun even want to talk in it... since its group mah...

but this title dun deserve group thread... it's too generall...
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 10:02 AM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 09:59 AM)
A full cup is hard to teach. Much you have to learn my young apprentice.
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earth shattering answer will displace all the water in the cup my dear...

QUOTE(Mr.Docter @ Aug 19 2010, 09:59 AM)
and another thing, what is Buddhism view about sex? are you allow to have sex before marriage?

i am asking in term of religion, not nowadays trend.
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same as Islam... what do u think?
SUSgogo2
post Aug 19 2010, 10:04 AM

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QUOTE(harrychoo @ Aug 19 2010, 10:02 AM)
This thread is fail if one can't even answer how to achieve enlightenment by using Zen way and Pure Land way
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just go become monk lor...hahahahah

QUOTE(ayamkambing @ Aug 19 2010, 10:02 AM)
90% chinese are not buddhists by devotion. Just by face only. Mostly all tao people
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troll also u want to answer...lollolol

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