NO!!!

In theravada all can attain enlightenment. The Buddha initially refused to ordain females as nuns into the order because of practical purpose.

Those days in India was not like the streets in the modern world today. A woman who walked alone in the forest will be subjected to so many dangers from wild animals and sex perverts, not to mention bandits. And also physical limitation, women have regular menses , and during the old time there wasn't things like "tuala wanita" ..... so the females who are menstruating were really very inconvenient for them to travel.

Those who were ordained had to walk for miles to the town to get alms (food and medicines) on daily basis. Because of this, there was a lot of physical strain on females at that time. However, Ven Ananda asked the Buddha if females can attain enlightenment and are equally capable of pursuing the noble goal. To that the Buddha said "YES".

The Buddha finally agreed to ordain females as nuns, but he made extra rules for the females in order to guard them against dangers, etc.

Buddha's wife attained enlightenment and she became very proficient in psychic powers among the females. There were many notable female arahants at that time!!


That being said, the order of the Nuns in Theravada buddhism became extinct in the 10th century in Sri Lanka after the civil war there. Very unfortunate.

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 12 2010, 02:05 PM

ANswers in red

Yeap. This is one thing I am very grateful to my parents. They don't force any belief on me, and let me find the religions that suit me.

But buddha said no one above him during his enlightenment wor.... he scanned the entire universe for someone to pay respect to, the heavens and until the brahma heavens, he said got no one higher than him in wisdom and in enlightenment. He realized he was the highest, and as suggested by Braha Sahampati, the Buddha paid respect to the Dhamma as all past buddhas did.

Because the buddha did not teach Theravada or Mahayana .. there is only one dhamma in the past...

But we are talking about 2500 years of evolution in Buddhism, and difference in opinion is bound to happen over time. It may be subtle, but given sufficient time, it will eventually evolve into 2 different school of thought.

Yes, the Buddha said in order to attain Enlightenment, one has to practice the 8fold path which leads to the realization of the 4 noble truths (cessation of suffering)

so what's the 8-fold path?

That's why over such a long time, buddhism fractures, starting from 500 years after buddha passed away. There is a group who refused to change, and you call them the orthodox, and another group with newer idea and trying to make buddhism more appealing to the mass, the reformer.

It's the same in Christianity too, we can see how protestants movement has evolved so much in the last 300 years that the interpretation of the teaching can be done by anyone who holds the Bible. There is no unity in the prostestant churches , and you find the newer churches even performed gay marriages , which is something now allowed in the Catholic church.

THere is so much difference between shinto and tibetan.. they are very different. Are they still buddhism practiced 2500 years ago at the buddha's time? this you all have to do some homework and self reflection.

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Added on August 13, 2010, 4:13 pmif you say reincarnate to soemthing else is possible, then you should logically also include that somethign else can also reincarnate back to the human world, no?


This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 13 2010, 04:13 PM

well the buddha said we are not the only place in this world system that has humans... there are other 3 places, with much longer lifespan than the humans on Earth. (within this world system).

Plus, there are 30 more worlds a being can land to, from the heavily populated Avici hell to the least populated highest realm of neither perception nor non-perception.

Well it all depends on how deep you want to study buddhism and your aim in life.

If you are only looking for just a way to live happily , then you can live by just the day-to-day practical advice by the buddha like avoid evil, do good, etc.

But if you are looking serious to find out, whether there is such thing as Sotapatti Magga (special event in the stream of the mind that changes a being forever), or whether there is really such thing as the Unconditioned State, then you have to look deeper into the teachings, which contain some 'supernatural' stuffs.

But then, we cannot totally discount these claims. After all, landing on the moon will seem be to supernatural 100 years ago, until actually someone did land on the moon , it became a naturally accepted thing.

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Added on August 13, 2010, 4:26 pmI was told rebirth as a human is very very difficult and rare event. Count your luck guys to be able to become humans to enjoy Lady Gaga and sex... there are places worse than these where you dont get these stuffs....

work for your own security!

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 13 2010, 04:26 PM

Tell you more keng one.

he said our mind is subdivided into quantum units of 17 moments......

The matter is in a state of flux, and at no moment they are the same. and by the time 1 unit of matter expired, 17 units of mind expires.

hu hu.

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 13 2010, 04:36 PM

siapa beritahu you true buddhism itew kena vegetable?

yo brother, you sound like a hahayana. Cool

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Added on August 13, 2010, 4:44 pmIt's in the abhidhamma. Come across any of them?

Not compulsory to know but most of the monks in Burma have to learn it.

Tipitaka contains
1. Sutta
2. Vinaya
3. Abdihdamma

Sutta - compilation of discourses the buddha made to kings, queens, lay person, monks, robbers, bandits, murderers, soldiers, etc. Using conventional language of "I", "YOU" , "HIM", etc

2. Vinaya - rules for the monks

3. Abdhidhamma - ultimate teachings of the Buddha, taught only to the highly advanced superhumans (aka Devas ), but was conveyed to Ven Sariputta in summary. No "I" or "he" used. Breaks the mind into full analysis of moments, its arising, its passing away, how the mind and body are related, their ways of arising, cessation, etc. It's solely about the mind-body relation

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 13 2010, 04:49 PM

Hahayana was the joke used by Ven Ajahn Brahm to describe Buddha's teaching as only ONE type , no theravada or mahayana . Anyway, he was from theravada forest tradition.

THere isn't much difference from the Burmese monks. Basically they are from the same root .. theravada.

Buddha was not a vegetarian. He consumed meat that was offered to him. His last meal was pork prepared by his devoted supporter Cunda. His cousin, Devadatta tried to persuade the Buddha to impose the vegetarianism rule on the Sangha, which the buddha refused. We all know the fate of devadatta......who tried to murder the buddha and usurp the sangha.

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Added on August 13, 2010, 6:09 pmIf you read the Tipitaka, the Rules of the monastery (Vinaya) does not forbid meat to be consumed, although there are certain conditions for meat to be consumed and certain meat that is forbidden.

It's a point of contention between mahayana and theravada pertaining to vegetarianism.

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Added on August 13, 2010, 6:18 pmzstan, you haven't answered my question on 8 fold path. what is the 8 fold path?

If you want to read about the relation of Mind-Body, you need to study Ahbidhamma. Not so difficult to understand la. Can read up about abhidhamma lessons on the net.

Anyway, the abidhamma says in ultimate reality, this universe only consists of:

1. citta (consciousness)
2. cetasikas (mental factors that arise together with citta)
3. rupa (form)
4. Nibbana (unconditioned state)

1+2 = the MIND
3: BODY

"YOU" and "me" don't exist ultimately, but only Mind-Matter combo. 1-3 are conditioned, means they need other things for them to exist and cannot exist independently. And they are not permanent. For every second, a new mind-matter combo is born, with destruction of the previous mind-matter. That is to say, at every moment, a new 'YOU" is born and destroyed.

From science we know Matter is in a state of flux too (string theory?) and they are not permanent. The buddha said our mind is even faster than the change in matter. For every 1 quantum (smallest unit) of matter that change, 17 units of the mind changes.

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 13 2010, 06:18 PM

correct. So you must understand what each of them means.

What is right concentration?
What is right mindfulness?


If we don't know what they mean, can we say we are walking on the 8 fold path?

8 fold path leads to Nibbana and cessation of suffering. To get to heaven, or happy human state , you don't need this 8 fold path. You can follow any other path or teaching. But to get to this state , you NEED to walk on the 8 fold path.

and may you find happiness in Atheism.

Do you mean to say you wish the Buddha hadn't taught those things that he did?

If that is the case, what's the difference between the great philosopher the likes of Voltaire , Socrates and Plato?

I , of course, don't agree with you. . Yes, some of the stuffs sound very supernatural . For example - past life. Maybe I will ask you in return, just how certain are you that there is nothing like Past, and future? The best you could tell, it's a 'maybe', but if you tell me that you know for certain 100% , then you are not being honest like some hardcore egoistic atheist I meet so often.

Sigh. I think those people who like to argue on Buddhism should take their case to the religion vs non-religion thread. This thread should serve as the avenue for buddhists who like to discuss about their faith like the Christian lounge.

Enough already.

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Added on August 15, 2010, 7:39 amYawn. Another versus thread?

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 15 2010, 07:39 AM

Right.

This post has been edited by soul2soul: Aug 15 2010, 08:41 AM

Evangelism in buddhism??? That's something new. If you want to look at history and the state of the world today, it's the opposite. Buddhism states are slowly turning into christian states due to the aggressive chrisitian missionaries in South Korea. Previously buddhist places like Afghanistan, Indonesia (borobuddur) have long disappeared. If you want to talk about the success of evangelism, nothing can beat christians (in the availability of resources) and the muslims (in the conversion by Law).

Buddhism just offers an alternate view on this world where 99% of religions say there is a Creator. It says the opposite. If you don't like this, no problem dude. But don't make it a case of disliking buddhists for no particular reason just because their belief don't agree with your likings. They don't harm your family , they don't make it a law for you to convert, they don't force you to believe it. They don't force your girlfriend, your father, your mother, your children to believe it. They don't split your family into "us versus them", they don't see you as evil or 'hell denizens'. They don't call you infidels, they don't wage war against your ancestors or family.

Why the anti-buddhist sentiment among some people here? I don't get it.