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 The Zerg Strategy v1.0, Cheer for the overmind!

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TSMoonflown
post Aug 2 2010, 10:19 PM, updated 15y ago

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Since I'm a Zerg player I'll try to start of a thread for Zerg discussions

I've extracted a Build Orders' Overview from Teamliquid.net

GENERAL INFORMATION:
Common economic openings include:
13 Pool 15 Hatch
14 Pool 16 Hatch
15 Pool 16 Hatch (the "Idra")

SPECIFIC BO's:

Zerg v Zerg

13 Pool Roach/Baneling - Anti-Speedling build
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


13 Pool Speedling/Baneling (1 Base push)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Overpool/Quick Lair into Expansion
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Zerg v Protoss

LaLush Build (Overpool, Early Lair) - Excellent against Immortal timing push/Void ray harass
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Cartoon's 14 Hatch 13 Pool - 2 gate counter.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Zerg v Terran

14 Pool 16 Hatch
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Dimaga Baneling Break - can end games before the 8 minute mark if the Terran wall is standard
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

13 Pool 18 Roach into Air
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Feel free to add any BO and discuss about strategies and may the Heart of Swarm rule the whole universe!

This post has been edited by Moonflown: Oct 3 2010, 03:27 PM
Quazacolt
post Aug 2 2010, 10:43 PM

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=edit=
since TS lazy and i do realize i have 2nd post, might as well

Replays:
Replays from me(Quazacolt):
so yeah a mass orgy of zerg players. lol

200 food massing hydra and me being a little cocky about it tongue.gif

Replays from Sichiri:
how to properly use zerglings

pwned a platinum terran!

Replays from Ash:
http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/repl...nload&id=145759

user posted image
user posted image
A ZvP and ZvZ replay of mine.

user posted image
Don't know how I got away in the beginning lol but i guess it's an intense ZvP nevertheless. Was sitting on a pillow playing while talking at the same time. Now i know if your original nydus gets destroyed then your units inside will be vanished as well. Got lucky in this game.


Guide videos:
Introducing, the magic box! (for mutalisks against thors)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


spine insane blitz vs insane AI achievement (very funny video lol)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


evolution chamber rush (loololololol)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Match up videos:
1 zealot vs 1 zergling trollan:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


TLO vs Cola with TLO as zerg:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Demuslim vs dimaga on IEM:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «




So like hi guys, zerg player as well lol. Typically thirteen pool mutalisk with zerg lings.and still gets rolled by meech lol

SEASON 2 UPDATES:
Zerg vs Zerg, i was lucky lawl
i mutaling, he roach. mutas > roach. gg lol

zerg macro game
if you're having 3-5 base, anything goes. spam units until they die. i messed up some infestors at first, but i guess i made up for it spamming neural parasite later on XD

People trying to BM, but got BM back. "smells like gg"
if you wanna BM someone, make DAMN SURE you kill his very last damn drone and building. he didnt, and i bit him back HARD

3 terran spam rax spam marines no gas all in. much lulz and satisfaction were had (same replay as awyongcarl uploaded)
yeap, spess muhreeens all in, and FAIL. nuff said rofl

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Apr 25 2011, 06:29 AM
evofantasy
post Aug 2 2010, 11:45 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 2 2010, 10:43 PM)
So like hi guys, zerg player as well lol. Typically thirteen pool mutalisk with zerg lings.and still gets rolled by meech lol
*
go all out baneling bust rclxms.gif
TSMoonflown
post Aug 3 2010, 12:37 AM

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I felt that infestors are underused.
Soul-X
post Aug 3 2010, 01:14 AM

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Not really, I always go for infestors
Quazacolt
post Aug 3 2010, 04:45 AM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 3 2010, 12:37 AM)
I felt that infestors are underused.
*
I rarely gofor them as they take too much gas haha
aLertz
post Aug 3 2010, 12:18 PM

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thanks for those great strats...
i still dunno how to actually use the new units yet...
will be trying out the BOs once i finish the campaign doh.gif
TSMoonflown
post Aug 3 2010, 02:30 PM

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QUOTE(Soul-X @ Aug 3 2010, 01:14 AM)
Not really, I always go for infestors
*
I'm not talking about you, I'm talking generally
Soul-X
post Aug 4 2010, 11:20 AM

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well if u see international players play, they always have infestors as well wut
hazairi
post Aug 4 2010, 11:25 AM

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I really like the new Zerg. Banelling is demm useful and the new Queen means we don't need to rush into early hatchery.. cool!
TSMoonflown
post Aug 4 2010, 02:28 PM

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@Soul-x
Not that frequent compared to other spell casters, and most of them are not that active until main engagement of armies.

@hazairi
Yea there's always a debate between early hatch or early queen benefits. And queens are decent against early air harassment as well
evofantasy
post Aug 4 2010, 02:29 PM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 4 2010, 02:28 PM)
@Soul-x
Not that frequent compared to other spell casters, and most of them are not that active until main engagement of armies.

@hazairi
Yea there's always a debate between early hatch or early queen benefits. And queens are decent against early air harassment as well
*
and queens are superb late game for their healing
ArticFir3
post Aug 4 2010, 03:13 PM

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Anyone does Muta micro with the Overlord thingy yet? I can't seem to get that working LOL. Call me old school, but I used to play Zerg as my offrace during SC1 days tongue.gif
Quazacolt
post Aug 4 2010, 05:48 PM

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QUOTE(ArticFir3 @ Aug 4 2010, 03:13 PM)
Anyone does Muta micro with the Overlord thingy yet? I can't seem to get that working LOL. Call me old school, but I used to play Zerg as my offrace during SC1 days tongue.gif
*
overlord thingy?
aLertz
post Aug 4 2010, 05:50 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 4 2010, 05:48 PM)
overlord thingy?
*
he means muta-stacking...
i heard it doesn't work in sc2 already...but i'm not sure as i didn't try it yet...
Quazacolt
post Aug 4 2010, 05:53 PM

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QUOTE(aLertz @ Aug 4 2010, 05:50 PM)
he means muta-stacking...
i heard it doesn't work in sc2 already...but i'm not sure as i didn't try it yet...
*
it does work to an extent, but spreads out a lot faster than sc1 to be worth the micro'ing effort >.>
TSMoonflown
post Aug 4 2010, 09:19 PM

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Too bad I didn't play SC1, but in SC2 I know units will make attacking units their priority initially. Unless you move your overlord forward before muta, if not they will still aim muta.

Another fun tactic I used was using muta to force thors use air shots while minimizing damages to my roaches/hydra

This post has been edited by Moonflown: Aug 4 2010, 09:21 PM
Ash
post Aug 4 2010, 10:27 PM

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You guys have to be aware that these BO's are there to give you an idea about the BO but you will have to adapt to the situation yourself whenever you're in the game. The key when it comes to playing RTS game is adapting and counter. Do not follow the BO's blindly
Sky.Live
post Aug 5 2010, 08:56 AM

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QUOTE(Ash @ Aug 4 2010, 10:27 PM)
You guys have to be aware that these BO's are there to give you an idea about the BO but you will have to adapt to the situation yourself whenever you're in the game. The key when it comes to playing RTS game is adapting and counter. Do not follow the BO's blindly
*
Hi ash,

BO are great for starters to learn up a decent strategy and overall idea...



Btw is there a way to select multiple larvae and spawn them into units at the same time rather than spam hotkey for X times
Quazacolt
post Aug 5 2010, 09:32 AM

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QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Aug 5 2010, 08:56 AM)
Hi ash,

BO are great for starters to learn up a decent strategy and overall idea...
Btw is there a way to select multiple larvae and spawn them into units at the same time rather than spam hotkey for X times
*
not that i know of, so start practising that piano skill
ArticFir3
post Aug 5 2010, 09:36 AM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 4 2010, 09:19 PM)
Too bad I didn't play SC1, but in SC2 I know units will make attacking units their priority initially. Unless you move your overlord forward before muta, if not they will still aim muta.

Another fun tactic I used was using muta to force thors use air shots while minimizing damages to my roaches/hydra
*
I think you got me wrongly tongue.gif

What I meant is muta stacking as alertz says. Normally u group 11 muta + 1 ovie (SC1) to stack 11 mutas and 1 shot kill with the patrol button. Tried doing it a few times, not very effective with it in SC2.
TSMoonflown
post Aug 5 2010, 11:27 AM

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Oh okay, since I don't even know what that means.

I've just watched a 1.5 hours game between a zerg and terran. Ended up a draw.

This post has been edited by Moonflown: Aug 5 2010, 11:46 AM
Quazacolt
post Aug 5 2010, 11:52 AM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 5 2010, 11:27 AM)
Oh okay, since I don't even know what that means.

I've just watched a 1.5 hours game between a zerg and terran. Ended up a draw.
*
draw? do elaborate (youtube/replay if possible)
aLertz
post Aug 5 2010, 11:59 AM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 5 2010, 11:27 AM)
Oh okay, since I don't even know what that means.

I've just watched a 1.5 hours game between a zerg and terran. Ended up a draw.
*
how does it end up in a draw?? blink.gif
Sky.Live
post Aug 5 2010, 09:25 PM

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both having no unit to atk opponent? lol
TSMoonflown
post Aug 5 2010, 10:24 PM

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Its from day9. Both team ended up with ravens and queens. Couldn't kill each other.
Quazacolt
post Aug 5 2010, 10:47 PM

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guys, i just raped unit production in a 4v4 just now. 30min game, 429 units produced

cuz i was massing zergling and ultralisk
and yes, ultralisks suck.

that said, dumping ultralisks in a worker area makes me happy in my pants


Added on August 5, 2010, 10:47 pm
QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 5 2010, 10:24 PM)
Its from day9. Both team ended up with ravens and queens. Couldn't kill each other.
*
auto turret weh lol. queen rush weh, mass healing. can kill geh. lol

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 5 2010, 10:47 PM
Currylaksa
post Aug 5 2010, 11:47 PM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 5 2010, 10:24 PM)
Its from day9. Both team ended up with ravens and queens. Couldn't kill each other.
*
lol... laugh.gif

Wait there until my queens get to you.... eventually!
Quazacolt
post Aug 8 2010, 06:04 AM

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what page 2? D:

btw moon, are you even using roaches much at all? i find them really sickening sometimes especially with the 2 food BS lol. much rather just mass mutas >.>

that said, they tanked pretty damn well on a 49min game i played. friggin massed infestors roflmao
yes, got some funny achievements too like x kills with a mind controled unit XD
TSMoonflown
post Aug 8 2010, 10:53 AM

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Yea I'm still pretty upset about the 2 food. But roaches are a good way to burn the excess minerals that Zerg always has. They are really good tanks for hydra even on mid-late games.

Ohya infestors, I remember there's an achievement call zerglots ._.

This post has been edited by Moonflown: Aug 8 2010, 10:55 AM
Quazacolt
post Aug 8 2010, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 8 2010, 10:53 AM)
Yea I'm still pretty upset about the 2 food. But roaches are a good way to burn the excess minerals that Zerg always has. They are really good tanks for hydra even on mid-late games.

Ohya infestors, I remember there's an achievement call zerglots ._.
*
haha didnt got that since you need to MC probes.

i just MC his colossus and terroized his workers rofl XD
Sky.Live
post Aug 8 2010, 06:33 PM

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any good replay?
Quazacolt
post Aug 8 2010, 09:11 PM

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QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Aug 8 2010, 06:33 PM)
any good replay?
*
wish i got some but my zerg play in live platinum is pretty pathetic imho. did a lot better in beta but thats prolly cuz people are still figuring out shit and there arent a lot of player pool
Sky.Live
post Aug 9 2010, 01:24 AM

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I felt that zerg is among the least played currently, at least that's what I felt when I tried to seek for a good replay from a zerg match, mostly being between terran and toss
sayming
post Aug 9 2010, 01:41 AM

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I noticed a lot of Terran players now. Don't like em... they block of my lings and they can shoot my muta's down... sad.gif
Quazacolt
post Aug 9 2010, 02:03 AM

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QUOTE(sayming @ Aug 9 2010, 01:41 AM)
I noticed a lot of Terran players now. Don't like em... they block of my lings and they can shoot my muta's down... sad.gif
*
mech against zerg doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif
noob4life
post Aug 9 2010, 02:41 AM

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Played a game and accidentally gave that Terran player " a little " too much time, his base is solid with anti-air and the entrances are blocked by siege/marine teams. And he enjoys dropping thors at my expansions.
Any counters for a heavily fortified terran base, besides blockading them ?


Added on August 9, 2010, 2:42 amOh btw, i hate thors backed by stimpacked marines. =_=

This post has been edited by noob4life: Aug 9 2010, 02:42 AM
Sky.Live
post Aug 9 2010, 08:58 AM

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How essential is baneling given that they are mass marine marauders? Find it hard to counter MM when they are being mass.. ling just dies like crap

btw, early upgrade are essential for zerg? since they are not too pricey
evofantasy
post Aug 9 2010, 09:08 AM

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QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Aug 9 2010, 08:58 AM)
How essential is baneling given that they are mass marine marauders? Find it hard to counter MM when they are being mass.. ling just dies like crap

btw, early upgrade are essential for zerg? since they are not too pricey
*
banelings could deal a truckload of damage if u have the micro...
they explode when the die so its important to place them at the right position through moving and not attacking...

if they go for MM, just infestor fungal growth em over n over again...
Sky.Live
post Aug 9 2010, 11:07 AM

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How soon do u get overseer usually? they have new skill as contaminate and spawn changeling which I think it will be very interesting to be use
evofantasy
post Aug 9 2010, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Aug 9 2010, 11:07 AM)
How soon do u get overseer usually? they have new skill as contaminate and spawn changeling which I think it will be very interesting to be use
*
when u get ur hive (is it hive? dun remember the name lol)...
its the t2 for ur hatch...

then u can upgrade ur overlords to overseers
aLertz
post Aug 9 2010, 03:23 PM

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after u got ur lair...u can get overseer already biggrin.gif
u get them when u found out they goin invi units or u plan to go offensive i guess...

still noob at new units sweat.gif
LoNeLy-Zhai
post Aug 9 2010, 11:11 PM

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What is the perfect way to counter reapers meanwhile you play fast expansion?

It's getting, annoying there...
erni3
post Aug 9 2010, 11:14 PM

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Queen Anti Reaper just build two >later send one to your expansion. That one way. Another way is to upgrade your zergling speed upgrade. Sigh.....me from Bronze league straight upgrade to Diamond league....(Evil Blizzard)
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post Aug 9 2010, 11:15 PM

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so the point is my queen is gonna play chasing with the reapers? But what if they keep producing reapers? I don't think the queen is able to handle 3-4 of them.
erni3
post Aug 9 2010, 11:21 PM

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your Queen should stay with your drone... not chase him around. He will come unless you build all your building far away from each other that would be silly. Usually reaper is annoyed you but pretty useless if mass. They just try to gain as much advantage. But usually for zerg >we are the race to initial attack instead or being attack.
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post Aug 10 2010, 12:28 AM

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What if they try to bomb my buildings off? Hatchery/extractor/pool

I should get my speedlings by then eh?
erni3
post Aug 10 2010, 02:39 AM

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If you have 2 Queen and can't defend your base from reaper then you should switch race. Cause 2 Queen can transfuse each other 100 hp if i m not wrong.
aLertz
post Aug 10 2010, 09:46 AM

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wanna ask, when is the best time to get ultra??
when i got like 4 base? i felt sc2 tech transition is quite fast...
LoNeLy-Zhai
post Aug 10 2010, 10:23 AM

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ok noted, gonna work quick with spawning queens and buckle up the micro.

Hell no on swtiching races cause im loyal to zerg <3
noob4life
post Aug 10 2010, 10:49 AM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 9 2010, 09:08 AM)
banelings could deal a truckload of damage if u have the micro...
they explode when the die so its important to place them at the right position through moving and not attacking...

if they go for MM, just infestor fungal growth em over n over again...
*
Hi, care to share a stretegy on micro-ing Banelings ? Wat i usually do is i keep a few banelings hidden away, and when they attack, my banelings steamroll them from behind... ( thats for early game )

But if i have to assault them head-on, i need ALOT of banelings to actually get pass those pesky MM builds. Kinda wasting there.
note that this is before i got Burrow. I usually get rolled before i get Lair + Burrow researched. =.="
Quazacolt
post Aug 10 2010, 11:17 AM

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QUOTE(noob4life @ Aug 10 2010, 10:49 AM)
Hi, care to share a stretegy on micro-ing Banelings ?  Wat i usually do is i keep a few banelings hidden away, and when they attack, my banelings steamroll them from behind... ( thats for early game )

But if i have to assault them head-on, i need ALOT of banelings to actually get pass those pesky MM builds. Kinda wasting there. 
note that this is before i got Burrow. I usually get rolled before i get Lair + Burrow researched. =.="
*
have banes rolling along with zerglings is the best, they dont hit the zergling, zergling claws them, they dont hit banelings, baneling will jibaboom. lol but of course, slight mid ish game (with MM full stim and large in numbers) i dont think ur zergling/baneling is viable anymore unless you have infestors to fungal them so they stay tight for a nice speedling/speed baneling close in. of course, at that point you might as well transition roach/hydra massing already or even mutalisks heh
aLertz
post Aug 10 2010, 05:13 PM

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got some question here...

about a strat in ZvT, "13 Pool 18 Roach into Air"...

if u see carefully, it says:

QUOTE
With corrupters, the static defense gets nullified long enough to make the harass effective, accomplishing what the Terran could otherwise almost ignore with proper turret placement.

If the Terran didn't scout, the Corrupters still aren't wasted, as they can take a couple pot shots at other production buildings in the mean time, then do their proper job on a return trip later in the game. And hey, if there aren't turrets in the first round of harass, then your 5-6 mutas are still having a hey-day in the mineral line.


as i know, the spell to disable buildings is on overseer and not corrupters...
and corrupters only can attack air units...so how does it perform "pot shots" at other production buildings?
and disable turrets? rclxub.gif
Quazacolt
post Aug 10 2010, 05:30 PM

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QUOTE(aLertz @ Aug 10 2010, 05:13 PM)
got some question here...

about a strat in ZvT, "13 Pool 18 Roach into Air"...

if u see carefully, it says:
as i know, the spell to disable buildings is on overseer and not corrupters...
and corrupters only can attack air units...so how does it perform "pot shots" at other production buildings?
and disable turrets?  rclxub.gif
*
previously, the spell is from corruptors, patch changed it to overseers
aLertz
post Aug 10 2010, 05:42 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 10 2010, 05:30 PM)
previously, the spell is from corruptors, patch changed it to overseers
*
oic...so maybe moon might need to change a bit the strat to get overseer instead of corrupter biggrin.gif
hazairi
post Aug 10 2010, 06:09 PM

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Baneling bust is so useful when ur playing in bronze or silver league. Can finish the game in 6 mins. When u get promoted to gold or platinum league, the baneling rush tactic is almost obsolete.. tongue.gif
TSMoonflown
post Aug 10 2010, 09:34 PM

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I only use overseer to scout/contaminate. Corrupted is one of my favorite unit since a good corruptor/broodlord army is nearly unbeatable unless they mass vikings/pheonix.

This post has been edited by Moonflown: Aug 10 2010, 09:36 PM
hazairi
post Aug 10 2010, 09:38 PM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 10 2010, 09:34 PM)
I only use overseer to scout/contaminate. Corrupted is one of my favorite unit since a good corruptor/broodlord army is nearly unbeatable unless they mass vikings/pheonix.
*
..and mass thors and Battlecruisers..
TSMoonflown
post Aug 10 2010, 09:39 PM

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Thors and battlecruisers ain't really good against corruptors and broodlords.
LoNeLy-Zhai
post Aug 10 2010, 09:44 PM

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yeah, they can't yamato each and every of your broodlords as zerg speciality is in mass.
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post Aug 10 2010, 09:56 PM

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Any good and efficient strategies to do an early corrupter + broodlord rush? wink.gif
noob4life
post Aug 11 2010, 12:12 AM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 10 2010, 06:09 PM)
Baneling bust is so useful when ur playing in bronze or silver league. Can finish the game in 6 mins. When u get promoted to gold or platinum league, the baneling rush tactic is almost obsolete.. tongue.gif
*
I like to mix Banelings together with Zerglings ( no speed upgrade here, to match the baneling's speed. 0_0 ) And a sizeable Roach army, as an early game harrasment squad. Its fun to smash banelings into a bunch of MMs, and finish them off with Roaches.


Added on August 11, 2010, 12:15 amAnother interesting way of using banelings is to burrow them away from your main base, and when you get attacked, unburrow them and attack from behind.... works well against MM squads who THINK they are winning.

This post has been edited by noob4life: Aug 11 2010, 12:15 AM
Quazacolt
post Aug 11 2010, 12:33 AM

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lol i lansi'd last zerg game
200 food mass hydra with 2-3k minerals 2k+ gas 3 base 3 queens

replay saved
LOL
hazairi
post Aug 11 2010, 01:00 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 11 2010, 12:33 AM)
lol i lansi'd last zerg game
200 food mass hydra with 2-3k minerals 2k+ gas 3 base 3 queens

replay saved
LOL
*
Ur playing US server, surely la easy.. tongue.gif
TSMoonflown
post Aug 11 2010, 01:24 AM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 11 2010, 01:00 AM)
Ur playing US server, surely la easy.. tongue.gif
*
LoL at this statement.
Quazacolt
post Aug 11 2010, 03:09 AM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 11 2010, 01:24 AM)
LoL at this statement.
*
^
beaten me to it.


Added on August 11, 2010, 3:10 am
QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 11 2010, 01:00 AM)
Ur playing US server, surely la easy.. tongue.gif
*
do you know how many pro players US can shit out compared to say, singapore? or hell, malaysia?


wwwwwwwwwwwwwww

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 11 2010, 03:10 AM
TSMoonflown
post Aug 11 2010, 09:39 AM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 10 2010, 09:56 PM)
Any good and efficient strategies to do an early corrupter + broodlord rush? wink.gif
*
Scout for spire and greater spire and do a timing attack because broodlord needs ages to transition. Keep pressuring zerg so that they would not make over a critical amount of broodlords. Broodlords are only threatening when they are 4 or above, with some amount of corruptor/hydra to protect them.

QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 11 2010, 03:09 AM)
^
beaten me to it.


Added on August 11, 2010, 3:10 am

do you know how many pro players US can shit out compared to say, singapore? or hell, malaysia?
wwwwwwwwwwwwwww
*
I'm pretty sure that he never played US beta before. I feel like I can only be at bronze if I go there now =D
Quazacolt
post Aug 11 2010, 09:48 AM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 11 2010, 09:39 AM)
Scout for spire and greater spire and do a timing attack because broodlord needs ages to transition. Keep pressuring zerg so that they would not make over a critical amount of broodlords. Broodlords are only threatening when they are 4 or above, with some amount of corruptor/hydra to protect them.
I'm pretty sure that he never played US beta before. I feel like I can only be at bronze if I go there now =D
*
lol not so bad i guess, lowest also plat lo for you, maybe can still diamond tongue.gif
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post Aug 11 2010, 10:16 AM

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ooh, didn't know US players are that good.. tongue.gif
LoNeLy-Zhai
post Aug 12 2010, 01:19 AM

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So you guys are saying that SEA plat are like US gold?
Quazacolt
post Aug 12 2010, 01:35 AM

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QUOTE(LoNeLy-Zhai @ Aug 12 2010, 01:19 AM)
So you guys are saying that SEA plat are like US gold?
*
- considering the amount of sc players in us vs SEA
- considering the pro players from us vs SEA
- considering SEA players STILL LAG just about the same as US players, where by americans themselves wont be lagging at all

you tell me?
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post Aug 12 2010, 01:53 AM

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QUOTE(LoNeLy-Zhai @ Aug 12 2010, 01:19 AM)
So you guys are saying that SEA plat are like US gold?
*
QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 12 2010, 01:35 AM)
- considering the amount of sc players in us vs SEA
- considering the pro players from us vs SEA
- considering SEA players STILL LAG just about the same as US players, where by americans themselves wont be lagging at all

you tell me?
*
All can be judged in another 2 months. Where we all who have SEA key can create a new profile for US servers. Let us all see then.. wink.gif
evofantasy
post Aug 12 2010, 02:46 AM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 11 2010, 01:00 AM)
Ur playing US server, surely la easy.. tongue.gif
*
from my beta experience and SEA i would say: US > SEA...
my ladder (was gold as i lost my last placement so some diamond guy wit 22 games) have so far been paired up to plat/diamond and seriously, all i lost was him and another diamond guy (8-2 atm)....
i was jz promoted to plat on my 10th ladder match after beating another plat guy which could only 2 gate cheese me outside my ramp to be out-microed and out-tech before my counter push...
to be honest, i was depressed to be at gold after my placement as i am definitely better than gold in SEA server rclxms.gif

back in beta, i was gold/ plat but i been like 6-4 (was even in silver for some time in phase 2 LOL)...
and my opponents was only gold/plat, no diamonds...

i have frens that are pretty new to sc2 at gold/ plat level LOL...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 12 2010, 02:51 AM
Quazacolt
post Aug 12 2010, 02:47 AM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 12 2010, 01:53 AM)
All can be judged in another 2 months. Where we all who have SEA key can create a new profile for US servers. Let us all see then.. wink.gif
*
hey, dont take my word for it, see whats being tossed (no pun intended!) around here
aLertz
post Aug 12 2010, 08:34 AM

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no point arguing...js be da best in ur region 1st then oni consider other region smile.gif
Soul-X
post Aug 12 2010, 12:38 PM

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zerg discussions please...
aLertz
post Aug 12 2010, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(Soul-X @ Aug 12 2010, 12:38 PM)
*cough*

zerg discussions please...
*
haha...oh yeah,
is it kinda necessary to get roach b4 hydra??
cause i like massing hydra in sc1 but now it has change to required lair 1st...
how bout 14 hatch then some spines + lings then mass hydra all da way? rolleyes.gif
i'm js afraid of MM bust sweat.gif
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post Aug 12 2010, 12:59 PM

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QUOTE(aLertz @ Aug 12 2010, 12:45 PM)
haha...oh yeah,
is it kinda necessary to get roach b4 hydra??
cause i like massing hydra in sc1 but now it has change to required lair 1st...
how bout 14 hatch then some spines + lings then mass hydra all da way?  rolleyes.gif
i'm js afraid of MM bust sweat.gif
*
Roach is your tank, but if your like me and hate roaches then hydra anyways
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post Aug 12 2010, 01:54 PM

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sigh... no more good old muta rush like in sc1 days
TSMoonflown
post Aug 12 2010, 02:36 PM

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QUOTE(aLertz @ Aug 12 2010, 12:45 PM)
haha...oh yeah,
is it kinda necessary to get roach b4 hydra??
cause i like massing hydra in sc1 but now it has change to required lair 1st...
how bout 14 hatch then some spines + lings then mass hydra all da way?  rolleyes.gif
i'm js afraid of MM bust sweat.gif
*
Try a pure hydra army against Collussus and you'll seee what happen =D

QUOTE(Soul-X @ Aug 12 2010, 01:54 PM)
sigh... no more good old muta rush like in sc1 days
*
It's still possible with one base muta rush. Then expand after gaining map control
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post Aug 12 2010, 02:46 PM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 12 2010, 02:36 PM)
Try a pure hydra army against Collussus and you'll seee what happen =D
It's still possible with one base muta rush. Then expand after gaining map control
*
i think 1 unit muta need 100 gas? 1 base don think enough gas to fast build them.
I tried to spam muta but not sure why always spam not as fast/pro as other player..., some more they are so fragile....,
they are good only when in large group
Zerg i always roach until 100+ unit then mixed with hydra, keep 40% 60%, maybe 10% for ultralisk late game.
TSMoonflown
post Aug 12 2010, 03:07 PM

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QUOTE(popcorn513 @ Aug 12 2010, 02:46 PM)
i think 1 unit muta need 100 gas? 1 base don think enough gas to fast build them.
I tried to spam muta but not sure why always spam not as fast/pro as other player..., some more they are so fragile....,
they are good only when in large group
Zerg i always roach until 100+ unit then mixed with hydra, keep 40% 60%, maybe 10% for ultralisk late game.
*
You can, just take vespene gas before pool and faster 2nd extractor and usually I can pump 8-9 mutas once spire is done.
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post Aug 12 2010, 03:10 PM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 12 2010, 03:07 PM)
You can, just take vespene gas before pool and faster 2nd extractor and usually I can pump 8-9 mutas once spire is done.
*
but 8-9 muta Vs Marines = lost, harass yeah, does this tactic work on harass AI?
Quazacolt
post Aug 12 2010, 03:24 PM

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QUOTE(Soul-X @ Aug 12 2010, 01:54 PM)
sigh... no more good old muta rush like in sc1 days
*
err, i do it quite oftenly lol


Added on August 12, 2010, 3:25 pm
QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 12 2010, 02:36 PM)
Try a pure hydra army against Collussus and you'll seee what happen =D
It's still possible with one base muta rush. Then expand after gaining map control
*
can wat. but thats me 200food hydra with 4 bases with him only less than 5 colossus. rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif


Added on August 12, 2010, 3:26 pm
QUOTE(popcorn513 @ Aug 12 2010, 03:10 PM)
but 8-9 muta Vs Marines = lost, harass yeah, does this tactic work on harass AI?
*
micro = win. of course, depend on how many marine vs muta. if all terran do is marine while you muta, then you'll lose in number. but whos to say you cant cap his econ by harassing his scv? while you continue to build more mutas

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 12 2010, 03:26 PM
TSMoonflown
post Aug 12 2010, 03:29 PM

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QUOTE(popcorn513 @ Aug 12 2010, 03:10 PM)
but 8-9 muta Vs Marines = lost, harass yeah, does this tactic work on harass AI?
*
Hei no one gonna pump muta just to kill marines. Most of the time mutas are for map control and harassing. Making opponent invest on static defenses
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post Aug 12 2010, 03:38 PM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 12 2010, 03:29 PM)
Hei no one gonna pump muta just to kill marines. Most of the time mutas are for map control and harassing. Making opponent invest on static defenses
*
yeah...dun go head to head with marines...js run around harass n make them frustrated...
the best would be able to pick as many as scvs u can...if he camp his marines at mineral then go to other buildings or pick wandering units brows.gif
muta is da best due to speed n it's an air unit...
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post Aug 12 2010, 03:57 PM

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QUOTE(aLertz @ Aug 12 2010, 03:38 PM)
yeah...dun go head to head with marines...js run around harass n make them frustrated...
the best would be able to pick as many as scvs u can...if he camp his marines at mineral then go to other buildings or pick wandering units brows.gif
muta is da best due to speed n it's an air unit...
*
Ya i saw muta good in harass, but not to against any anti-air unit or team battle, to me they are bloody expensive with low hp.....
If marines try to base trading then suppose marines should win
noob4life
post Aug 12 2010, 04:21 PM

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Played a game a while ago, harrassed the toss player with Banes and speedlings ( kept destroying his pylons for lulz ) His zealots cant touch my speedlings while i run them around, hitting probes and generally being an ass.
He got pissed and started building some photons to keep me out. ( which really did work ) ... then scouted with overlords... and saw 3 stargates.
Straight got my spire and 11 mutas... by that time he had some stalkers and 3 void rays... attacked with mutas ( i continued reinforcing my muta army ) and won.
He made a mistake by focusing photons on one side, leaving his Stargate area free to rape.

And want to add sumthing : speedlings are great for preventing expansions !

This post has been edited by noob4life: Aug 12 2010, 04:24 PM
aLertz
post Aug 12 2010, 05:40 PM

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QUOTE(noob4life @ Aug 12 2010, 04:21 PM)
Played a game a while ago, harrassed the toss player with Banes and speedlings ( kept destroying his pylons for lulz )  His zealots cant touch my speedlings while i run them around, hitting probes and generally being an ass.
He got pissed and started building some photons to keep me out. ( which really did work ) ... then scouted with overlords... and saw 3 stargates.
Straight got my spire and 11 mutas... by that time he had some stalkers and 3 void rays... attacked with mutas ( i continued reinforcing my muta army )  and won.
He made a mistake by focusing photons on one side, leaving his Stargate area free to rape.

And want to add sumthing : speedlings are great for preventing expansions !
*
nicee...might keep tat strategy in mind...ekekeke
still learning how to use banelings effectively...good for breaking choke defence biggrin.gif
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post Aug 12 2010, 05:50 PM

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QUOTE(aLertz @ Aug 12 2010, 05:40 PM)
nicee...might keep tat strategy in mind...ekekeke
still learning how to use banelings effectively...good for breaking choke defence  biggrin.gif
*
I played in league but never see people using banneling, popular way is raper,void,muta, or other mass early rush, lose to zergling early rush also, what a shame
TSMoonflown
post Aug 12 2010, 06:54 PM

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QUOTE(popcorn513 @ Aug 12 2010, 03:57 PM)
Ya i saw muta good in harass, but not to against any anti-air unit or team battle, to me they are bloody expensive with low hp.....
If marines try to base trading then suppose marines should win
*
No terran will push out with marines while getting harassed by muta, a far as I've experienced. Some spines and some lings could negate your counter-push because muta rush will spare lots of minerals.

Don't always think anti this anti that because people always say yadayada hard counter this, it depends on lots of variables. Marines are slow, and vikings usually won't have enough time to reach a critical number to deal with muta glaive.

There's are plenty of high level replays out there shown that muta had won against thors. As long as you don't bunch them together. But if you think they are bloody expensive then don't use them but watch people own you with it =D

This post has been edited by Moonflown: Aug 12 2010, 06:57 PM
noob4life
post Aug 12 2010, 07:52 PM

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QUOTE(aLertz @ Aug 12 2010, 05:40 PM)
nicee...might keep tat strategy in mind...ekekeke
still learning how to use banelings effectively...good for breaking choke defence  biggrin.gif
*
Terrans have a much better time dealing with banelings... block off ramp with 2 supply depots and 1 barracks, and behind that put a bunker. No more baneling/zergling rush ... cry.gif
Not sure if ive seen protoss players block that ramp off completely....

I hate terran Reapers though ... lost one game to a mass Reaper + Thor drop... Any way to counter early game mass reapers ?


Heres the scenario : Reapers harrass + prevent expansion... and his ramp is blocked off with bunkers and depots... and he is getting Vikings + thors. How do you counter this build ?

This post has been edited by noob4life: Aug 12 2010, 07:58 PM
hazairi
post Aug 13 2010, 09:36 AM

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I did an experiment using the map editor..

10 VR vs 16 Muta = VR wins with balance 4
10 VR vs 17 Muta = Muta wins with balance 4

wow, just 1 extra unit can change everything!
Quazacolt
post Aug 13 2010, 09:49 AM

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QUOTE(noob4life @ Aug 12 2010, 07:52 PM)
Terrans have a much better time dealing with banelings... block off ramp with 2 supply depots and 1 barracks, and behind that put a bunker. No more baneling/zergling rush ...  cry.gif  
Not sure if ive seen protoss players block that ramp off completely....  

I hate terran Reapers though ... lost one game to a mass Reaper + Thor drop...  Any way to counter early game mass reapers ?
Heres the scenario :  Reapers harrass + prevent expansion... and his ramp is blocked off with bunkers and depots... and he is getting Vikings + thors. How do you counter this build ?
*
you force the battle to his ground with siege tanks/MM and maybe vikings/medivac (1/1/1 build most likely)

and for ur base reaper issue, when ur pushing out, rally ur troops to ur mineral line. and of course some to expo and you can safely expo ady


Added on August 13, 2010, 9:56 am
QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 13 2010, 09:36 AM)
I did an experiment using the map editor..

10 VR vs 16 Muta = VR wins with balance 4
10 VR vs 17 Muta = Muta wins with balance 4

wow, just 1 extra unit can change everything!
*
due to the nature of glaive bounce (glaive target too, btw)/target acquiring, a lot of thing can happen differently, advisable that you do the simulation multiple times before reaching a conclusion

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 13 2010, 09:56 AM
hazairi
post Aug 13 2010, 10:17 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 13 2010, 09:49 AM)
you force the battle to his ground with siege tanks/MM and maybe vikings/medivac (1/1/1 build most likely)

and for ur base reaper issue, when ur pushing out, rally ur troops to ur mineral line. and of course some to expo and you can safely expo ady


Added on August 13, 2010, 9:56 am

due to the nature of glaive bounce (glaive target too, btw)/target acquiring, a lot of thing can happen differently, advisable that you do the simulation multiple times before reaching a conclusion
*
yeah, i re-runned the test again and again.. and the results were quite same..
Sky.Live
post Aug 13 2010, 11:06 AM

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Always manage to upset people with muta but cannot win the game... feel so sad about it.. usually i just go harass their mineral line and then atk from the front with full upgraded lings..
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post Aug 13 2010, 11:09 AM

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QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Aug 13 2010, 11:06 AM)
Always manage to upset people with muta but cannot win the game... feel so sad about it.. usually i just go harass their mineral line and then atk from the front with full upgraded lings..
*
try get hydra when harassing instead...
or maybe try drop/nydus da upgraded lings into their base wif muta support...
usually if u go head on...it's tough... sweat.gif
Sky.Live
post Aug 13 2010, 11:17 AM

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drop can do wonder sometimes, 2 OL drop of fully upgraded ling can destroy an expansion in no time, if undefended
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post Aug 13 2010, 11:19 AM

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QUOTE(aLertz @ Aug 13 2010, 11:09 AM)
try get hydra when harassing instead...
or maybe try drop/nydus da upgraded lings into their base wif muta support...
usually if u go head on...it's tough... sweat.gif
*
Yeah.. I heard Day9 said the advantage of Zerg is they have a very mobile army (with the exception of BroodLord perhaps.. they are very slow flier).. we should try to exploit that as much as we can

Sky.Live
post Aug 13 2010, 11:21 AM

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however that hydra without creep move like turtle, that's why I dont usually use hydra unless no choice
mad_geist
post Aug 13 2010, 11:23 AM

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QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Aug 13 2010, 11:17 AM)
drop can do wonder sometimes, 2 OL drop of fully upgraded ling can destroy an expansion in no time, if undefended
*
or you can try popping up a Nydus worm somewhere they least expected.. really loving those worms.. really help me out with attacking and expanding.. then again I'm in practice league so not sure how it will be in the real league
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post Aug 13 2010, 11:34 AM

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QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Aug 13 2010, 11:21 AM)
however that hydra without creep move like turtle, that's why I dont usually use hydra unless no choice
*
creep highway, overlord spread out and pave ahead of new creep tumors (since they take time) so your tumors can stretch further quicker

additionally, have multiple tumor per spread point so they can fill the area faster and safer (without need of overlords) is also an option
aLertz
post Aug 13 2010, 02:32 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 13 2010, 11:34 AM)
creep highway, overlord spread out and pave ahead of new creep tumors (since they take time) so your tumors can stretch further quicker

additionally, have multiple tumor per spread point so they can fill the area faster and safer (without need of overlords) is also an option
*
regarding the creep highway, will it disappear after the ovie move away or dead??
so far i oni make the highway to link up my bases oni...haven't tried further so no chance to test it rolleyes.gif
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post Aug 13 2010, 02:48 PM

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QUOTE(aLertz @ Aug 13 2010, 02:32 PM)
regarding the creep highway, will it disappear after the ovie move away or dead??
so far i oni make the highway to link up my bases oni...haven't tried further so no chance to test it  rolleyes.gif
*
if overlord dead/move away, and no creep tumor around, gone case lo. thats why need creep tumor too. (likewise if people scan/detect burrow on ur tumor and kill it, also gone case)
noob4life
post Aug 14 2010, 03:15 PM

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Got steamrolled today by a MM terran. ( again ) Damn, he blocks off ramp with bunker/barracks... then i tech to mutalisk... while the spire is on its way, he sends a wave of marines and marauders, with stimpack upgraded... my baneling mines only killed half of his army... and my speedlings got raped by his marauders, by the time mutalisk is out ( 5 of them ), he already destroyed my expansion... and stimpacked marines raped my mutalisks.
Any idea here? D=
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post Aug 14 2010, 03:19 PM

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dont go for mutalisk vs terran , marines is very effective against them

go for roaches burrow in
noob4life
post Aug 14 2010, 03:22 PM

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Ahhh, roaches... missed that. Never thought he would get stim pack until he used it to kill my mutas. So i thought mutas can do some harrass to make him pull back his army... bad mistake. =.="
And i think i failed in micro-ing my banelings lol.

So the usual strat against mm = speedling/baneling/roaches ?
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post Aug 14 2010, 04:05 PM

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QUOTE(BrotherHoe @ Aug 14 2010, 03:19 PM)
dont go for mutalisk vs terran , marines is very effective against them

go for roaches burrow in
*
mutas are as equally versatile against terran as it is against other races/units. its a very versatile/flexible unit. all they required is numbers, and thats the basic principle of the race itself - zerging

oh and, marauders laugh at roaches (hint: basic challenge)


Added on August 14, 2010, 4:08 pm
QUOTE(noob4life @ Aug 14 2010, 03:22 PM)
Ahhh, roaches... missed that. Never thought he would get stim pack until he used it to kill my mutas. So i thought mutas can do some harrass to make him pull back his army...  bad mistake. =.="
And i think i failed in micro-ing my banelings lol.

So the usual strat against mm = speedling/baneling/roaches ?
*
mutalings are still nice. you will 100% have excess minerals. use it to get some structural defenses (like spines, works wonders against MM) and speedlings

the idea is speedlings rush in first to draw fire while ur muta micro AGAINST HIS MARINES. 55 hp - 10 stimpack is 45, 9 dmg per glaive default its 5 hits, so long your muta number isnt too bad vs his, you will win with the glaive bounce (1 volley is 2-3 marine dead with 2 primary target and the rest bounces)

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 14 2010, 04:08 PM
SUSfifi85
post Aug 14 2010, 11:09 PM

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guardian best unit for zerg.. in sc1 i will have guardian and hydralisk as anti air.. can this tactic work in sc2?
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post Aug 15 2010, 05:46 AM

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QUOTE(fifi85 @ Aug 14 2010, 11:09 PM)
guardian best unit for zerg.. in sc1 i will have guardian and hydralisk as anti air.. can this tactic work in sc2?
*
can maa..
sc2, guardian = broodlord
hydralisk still exist. And the good part is that u can do a corrupter as the anti air..
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post Aug 15 2010, 02:34 PM

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broodlord with hydra will kill low spec pc easily
SUSfifi85
post Aug 15 2010, 05:37 PM

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broodlord use a lot of system resource? why like dat? guardian didnt return? sad.gif

not sure if worth gettingt he game liao
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post Aug 15 2010, 05:48 PM

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Not really, broodlord and hydra do fine just like other systems. Unless you have like 50 brood and you attack with a zillion broodlings
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post Aug 15 2010, 06:15 PM

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Broodlords are so useful when u attack far outside the cliff. Most ground unit can't reach it.
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post Aug 15 2010, 06:16 PM

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then whats the best unit in zerg? Like the ultimate unit after get then attack will win? I din get my sc2 yet so dunno much about it.. wanna learn some strats first
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post Aug 15 2010, 06:42 PM

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QUOTE(fifi85 @ Aug 15 2010, 06:16 PM)
then whats the best unit in zerg? Like the ultimate unit after get then attack will win? I din get my sc2 yet so dunno much about it.. wanna learn some strats first
*
definitely the classical Ultralisk!!!
SUSfifi85
post Aug 15 2010, 06:46 PM

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then straight go for ultralisk and win!! like dat r?
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post Aug 15 2010, 06:50 PM

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QUOTE(fifi85 @ Aug 15 2010, 06:46 PM)
then straight go for ultralisk and win!! like dat r?
*
haha, it depends on the opponent la..
plus, usually for mass ultra and broodlord, u must control at least 2 bases.
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post Aug 15 2010, 06:55 PM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 15 2010, 06:50 PM)
haha, it depends on the opponent la..
plus, usually for mass ultra and broodlord, u must control at least 2 bases.
*
control 2 basses only can get enuff resources?? Then the strategy is get 2 basses as fast as possible then straight ultralist built 12 and then win?

but ultralisk cant air will get pawn by air unit how?

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QUOTE(fifi85 @ Aug 15 2010, 06:55 PM)
control 2 basses only can get enuff resources?? Then the strategy is get 2 basses as fast as possible then straight ultralist built 12 and then win?

but ultralisk cant air will get pawn by air unit how?
*
no need air units. Ultralisk too powerful.. by the time the air units wanna kill them, his base already gone or he surely GG early..
SUSfifi85
post Aug 15 2010, 07:00 PM

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i c... so get 12 ultralisk and win. Sounds easy enuff. Will try it. thnx
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post Aug 15 2010, 07:01 PM

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QUOTE(fifi85 @ Aug 15 2010, 06:55 PM)
control 2 basses only can get enuff resources?? Then the strategy is get 2 basses as fast as possible then straight ultralist built 12 and then win?

but ultralisk cant air will get pawn by air unit how?
*
Its not that simple anymore ! XP
If u wanna mass things like that, u gotta make sure u don't get rushed, make sure ur expansions are safe etc... When u play leagues its not as simple as " i mass 12 ultras sure win " liao... need to see what ur opponent is doing in his base. If hes going battlecruisers, ultras bye bye. Zerg is very good at scouting opponents, once u know what he is doing, you already 50% win liao. The other 50% is for you to get a counter to his army. Like, if u see lots of marines and marauders, u usually get some Banelings/roaches/zerglings mix etc etc.

Watch some replays on youtube and u will know wat i mean smile.gif
And 2 bases most probably not enough for late game....
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post Aug 15 2010, 07:44 PM

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zerg very good at scouting? how do u scout enemy bse with zerg? i thought best is protoss with the permanent cloak unit
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post Aug 15 2010, 10:18 PM

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Overlord sac method - can scout the whole base with speed upgrade.
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post Aug 15 2010, 10:33 PM

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QUOTE(LoNeLy-Zhai @ Aug 15 2010, 10:18 PM)
Overlord sac method - can scout the whole base with speed upgrade.
*
elaboration is needed boss smile.gif
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post Aug 15 2010, 10:49 PM

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Sacrifice an overlord to just fly around their bases to see what they are doing - what buildings they have, what units they have, their unit count etc.

You could also use the overseer changeling trick. But if they are aware of it your changeling don't stand a chance to scout their base.

It's better to sacrifice a 100 gold overlord to know what they are doing and counter them rather than to not knowing anything and they smash you to pieces when you got the wrong units to counter them.

This post has been edited by LoNeLy-Zhai: Aug 15 2010, 10:50 PM
TSMoonflown
post Aug 15 2010, 11:23 PM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 15 2010, 06:57 PM)
no need air units. Ultralisk too powerful.. by the time the air units wanna kill them, his base already gone or he surely GG early..
*
You make Sc2 sounds so simple. You think your opponent gonna sit still and let you mass ultralisk? Most of the time they will timing push and end the game before even an ultralisk could hatch.

Zerg is a reactive race where you don't wanna have the mentality of massing what units in order to win, its about reacting and switch tech with ease to counter opponent's units' composition

This post has been edited by Moonflown: Aug 15 2010, 11:24 PM
noob4life
post Aug 16 2010, 02:03 AM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 15 2010, 11:23 PM)
You make Sc2 sounds so simple. You think your opponent gonna sit still and let you mass ultralisk? Most of the time they will timing push and end the game before even an ultralisk could hatch.
Zerg is a reactive race where you don't wanna have the mentality of massing what units in order to win, its about reacting and switch tech with ease to counter opponent's units' composition
*
+1 to this. smile.gif
Never played long enough to even hatch ultralisks. All my games end within 20 minutes or so... the fastest being ZvP... i ended it in 6 minutes... ( when i say end, it means both winning and losing lol... lost to a 6-pool zerg once )
Heck, i never even hatched a broodlord before in 1v1 league games !
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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 15 2010, 11:23 PM)
You make Sc2 sounds so simple. You think your opponent gonna sit still and let you mass ultralisk? Most of the time they will timing push and end the game before even an ultralisk could hatch.

Zerg is a reactive race where you don't wanna have the mentality of massing what units in order to win, its about reacting and switch tech with ease to counter opponent's units' composition
*
hehe, why so serious? u should read the previous posts and it was meant to be a sarcastic statement.. tongue.gif
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post Aug 16 2010, 05:40 AM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 15 2010, 06:42 PM)
definitely the classical Ultralisk!!!
*
ultralisks are so terribad i cant even describe it with words.

there is NO ultimate unit in zerg, zerg's ultimate capability is zerging (at least understand this before playing zerg) people
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post Aug 16 2010, 08:53 AM

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QUOTE(noob4life @ Aug 16 2010, 02:03 AM)
+1 to this.  smile.gif
Never played long enough to even hatch ultralisks. All my games end within 20 minutes or so... the fastest being ZvP... i ended it in 6 minutes... ( when i say end, it means both winning and losing lol... lost to a 6-pool zerg once )
Heck, i never even hatched a broodlord before in 1v1 league games !
*
haha same here...
usually the game ended either i lose or win by muta harass or massing hydra...
seems like muta harass still very effective in sc2 biggrin.gif
their marines is having a hard time chasing and vikings if not micro properly will also become muta's victim...

but there's 1 problem...
i keep kena protoss timing attack...
2 gate/3 gate zeal/stalker push doh.gif
they alwiz like to run by...
should i go roaches when i saw 2 gate?

This post has been edited by aLertz: Aug 16 2010, 08:54 AM
Sichiri
post Aug 16 2010, 09:24 AM

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i just played my first game as Zerg and i found that their potential is massive!
they expand and build so fast I can't keep up with the macro.

in the end i just mass roaches & hydra and zerged the terran player with sheer numbers.


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post Aug 16 2010, 10:11 AM

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QUOTE(Sichiri @ Aug 16 2010, 09:24 AM)
i just played my first game as Zerg and i found that their potential is massive!
they expand and build so fast I can't keep up with the macro.

in the end i just mass roaches & hydra and zerged the terran player with sheer numbers.
*
THO IZ HYA
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post Aug 16 2010, 10:23 AM

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QUOTE(Sichiri @ Aug 16 2010, 09:24 AM)
i just played my first game as Zerg and i found that their potential is massive!
they expand and build so fast I can't keep up with the macro.

in the end i just mass roaches & hydra and zerged the terran player with sheer numbers.
*
I thought that'll just get owned if terran use well-placed depot+bunker chokepoints with some hellions sad.gif
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post Aug 16 2010, 10:45 AM

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Sometimes i use the muta+speedlings rush to destroy the walls..
quite effective actually
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post Aug 16 2010, 11:02 AM

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QUOTE(Currylaksa @ Aug 16 2010, 10:23 AM)
I thought that'll just get owned if terran use well-placed depot+bunker chokepoints with some hellions sad.gif
*
practice league lol. tongue.gif
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post Aug 16 2010, 11:03 AM

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QUOTE(Currylaksa @ Aug 16 2010, 10:23 AM)
I thought that'll just get owned if terran use well-placed depot+bunker chokepoints with some hellions sad.gif
*
think broader...there's a lot of ways such as overload drops and nydus rolleyes.gif
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QUOTE(aLertz @ Aug 16 2010, 11:03 AM)
think broader...there's a lot of ways such as overload drops and nydus  rolleyes.gif
*
and bannels too.. which is one of my fav..
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post Aug 16 2010, 11:13 AM

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oh hoho so many pros~ anyone wanna training zvz mirror match can add me ya
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post Aug 16 2010, 11:23 AM

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Last time I thought with a few siege tank, two depot and 2-4 bunkers, its impossible to penetrate. But now that I've read here, a Nydus/or drop is so much better. drop one side and nydus another. Hehe. trying that tonight
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post Aug 16 2010, 11:28 AM

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QUOTE(Soul-X @ Aug 16 2010, 11:13 AM)
oh hoho so many pros~ anyone wanna training zvz mirror match can add me ya
*
well talk is easier than done...hahaha laugh.gif
anyway i honestly haven't tried nydus b4...
oni ovie drops... sweat.gif
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post Aug 16 2010, 11:32 AM

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Ha? why quote my statement? add me up if you wanna train zvz~

What talk is easier than done? Just add my id and pm me inside can already when you wanna have a match with me~ =______=
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post Aug 16 2010, 11:52 AM

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QUOTE(aLertz @ Aug 16 2010, 11:28 AM)
well talk is easier than done...hahaha laugh.gif
anyway i honestly haven't tried nydus b4...
oni ovie drops... sweat.gif
*
QUOTE(Soul-X @ Aug 16 2010, 11:32 AM)
Ha? why quote my statement? add me up if you wanna train zvz~

What talk is easier than done? Just add my id and pm me inside can already when you wanna have a match with me~ =______=
*
Wow, chill there. Hahaha.
I think wat alertz mean is some here can talk like pro, but do not so easy, like me. Wait, I don't even talk like a pro. zzz doh.gif
Definitely don't play like a pro, noob maybe, not pro. HAHA
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post Aug 16 2010, 12:08 PM

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haha i mean me la...not u XD
peace biggrin.gif

ok ok will add u 2nite...i wanna train zvz also...so far oni played 2 zvz oni...
n lost both sweat.gif
sixseven
post Aug 16 2010, 12:18 PM

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i wan oso!!!
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post Aug 16 2010, 12:25 PM

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is zergling useful? Its the weakest unit in the whole game. ANyone ever hatch zergling or just go straight for roaches as 1st unit?
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post Aug 16 2010, 12:26 PM

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QUOTE(aLertz @ Aug 16 2010, 12:08 PM)
haha i mean me la...not u XD
peace biggrin.gif

ok ok will add u 2nite...i wanna train zvz also...so far oni played 2 zvz oni...
n lost both sweat.gif
*
ZvZ... played 3 games and won 2 of them. I lost because i went 12-pool, and he went 6-pool lol. Super cheese. Zerglings rape my queen and destroy my hatch before my pool even finished.
He was lucky though.... it was a 4-player map and he scouted me correctly... cry.gif
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QUOTE(noob4life @ Aug 16 2010, 12:26 PM)
ZvZ... played 3 games and won 2 of them. I lost because i went 12-pool, and he went 6-pool lol. Super cheese. Zerglings rape my queen and destroy my hatch before my pool even finished.
He was lucky though.... it was a 4-player map and he scouted me correctly...  cry.gif
*
i really hate zvz as the timing of pool, defense/offense pushes can decide the game very VERY early. even if you dont die/lose on the first atk, the game is already considered done since you're too far behind econ.

that, and my weakest race is zerg, sigh.
TSMoonflown
post Aug 16 2010, 12:42 PM

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To be save in ZvZ. Throw down 11/12 overpool on small maps and 13 pool on large maps like scrap station. Prepare a spine crawler and you're good to go. Usually I like being 6 pool since it could be an easy win =D
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 16 2010, 12:34 PM)
i really hate zvz as the timing of pool, defense/offense pushes can decide the game very VERY early. even if you dont die/lose on the first atk, the game is already considered done since you're too far behind econ.

that, and my weakest race is zerg, sigh.
*
For ZvZ, i think have to scout very early. 6 pool rush is so much hated.

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 16 2010, 12:42 PM)
To be save in ZvZ. Throw down 11/12 overpool on small maps and 13 pool on large maps like scrap station. Prepare a spine crawler and you're good to go. Usually I like being 6 pool since it could be an easy win =D
*
But if you got scouted and fail the six pool rush you're behind econ already sad.gif
Sky.Live
post Aug 16 2010, 01:38 PM

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Be warned that zerg is not a very nice (steep learning curve) race to play, it's consume a lot of my brain power when I play starcraft with zerg.. that's so many things to do.. I failed at macro-ing the map most of the time.. cant balance between macro and micro
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post Aug 16 2010, 02:10 PM

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QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Aug 16 2010, 01:38 PM)
Be warned that zerg is not a very nice (steep learning curve) race to play, it's consume a lot of my brain power when I play starcraft with zerg.. that's so many things to do.. I failed at macro-ing the map most of the time.. cant balance between macro and micro
*
yeah there's a crap ton of new micro thanks to the new queen necessity and maintaining creeps dry.gif
aLertz
post Aug 16 2010, 02:16 PM

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QUOTE(Currylaksa @ Aug 16 2010, 02:10 PM)
yeah there's a crap ton of new micro thanks to the new queen necessity and maintaining creeps dry.gif
*
play more n u will get used to it...lol
well tat's da reason y many choose protoss...followed by terran then zerg... unsure.gif
i dunno y i like zerg play style more...lol

and 1 thing good bout zerg is...easy for transition...
if wan air...js throw a spire, if wan hydra js build a hydra den...hatcheries will do all the work...
while for others such as toss, if u build too many gateways...u can't simply change to air...coz it will be wasted...
think of it as a positive point to play z rolleyes.gif

1 of my trick: if opponent terran and u see him scan...build a hydra den to let him see it...then later build a spire at expo...he sure got surprise and without any turrets brows.gif
or vice versa...then his base will be full of turrets and without any muta flying around laugh.gif

This post has been edited by aLertz: Aug 16 2010, 02:23 PM
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QUOTE(aLertz @ Aug 16 2010, 02:16 PM)
play more n u will get used to it...lol
well tat's da reason y many choose protoss...followed by terran then zerg... unsure.gif
i dunno y i like zerg play style more...lol

and 1 thing good bout zerg is...easy for transition...
if wan air...js throw a spire, if wan hydra js build a hydra den...hatcheries will do all the work...
while for others such as toss, if u build too many gateways...u can't simply change to air...coz it will be wasted...
think of it as a positive point to play z  rolleyes.gif
*
exactly. And the best part is that u only need to save a few keys on for the hatchery to produce units while u were attacking.
1, S, Z,Z,Z,Z
2, S, M,M,M,M

if u know what i mean.. wink.gif
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post Aug 16 2010, 02:28 PM

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1. S,ZZZ = zerging
2. S, TTT = mutalisk..

M is wht liao? roach?

and also, S, VVV =overlord < kill by void.
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QUOTE(Tctf @ Aug 16 2010, 02:28 PM)
1. S,ZZZ = zerging
2. S, TTT = mutalisk..

M is wht liao? roach?

and also, S, VVV =overlord < kill by void.
*
hahah, sorry..
M is for Mutalisk on BW.
yeah, sc2 they changed it to T.. tongue.gif
xundeadx
post Aug 16 2010, 02:39 PM

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all the info is base on 1v1? it seems u guys all love 1v1s
aLertz
post Aug 16 2010, 02:47 PM

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QUOTE(xundeadx @ Aug 16 2010, 02:39 PM)
all the info is base on 1v1? it seems u guys all love 1v1s
*
yeah...1v1 covers almost everything...
2v2 or more is different story already...
but still the basics from 1v1 is there... smile.gif
Sky.Live
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2v2 can be very different, become u can have someone to cover ur ass, or you gotta cover your buddy's ass.

mass marine alone can do wonders if someone is tanking for you.. or ur ling basically just harass while ur teammate finish ur opponent off.
TSMoonflown
post Aug 16 2010, 03:20 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 16 2010, 01:34 PM)
But if you got scouted and fail the six pool rush you're behind econ already sad.gif
*
What I meant was I like being 6 pool"ed" by opponent =)

I was cannon rushed by 3 players in 4v4 map. I wonder why they hate me so much
aLertz
post Aug 16 2010, 03:35 PM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 16 2010, 03:20 PM)
What I meant was I like being 6 pool"ed" by opponent =)

I was cannon rushed by 3 players in 4v4 map. I wonder why they hate me so much
*
face problem? hahaha jk nia jk nia...

maybe they see u as a threat...tats y they aim to eliminate u 1st coz later u might even win even-though its 1v4 shocking.gif
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post Aug 16 2010, 03:46 PM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 16 2010, 03:20 PM)
What I meant was I like being 6 pool"ed" by opponent =)

I was cannon rushed by 3 players in 4v4 map. I wonder why they hate me so much
*
Maybe becoz you're a diamond league player.. hehe
Quazacolt
post Aug 16 2010, 04:20 PM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 16 2010, 03:20 PM)
What I meant was I like being 6 pool"ed" by opponent =)

I was cannon rushed by 3 players in 4v4 map. I wonder why they hate me so much
*
As zerg? Ok ma your creep can block their buildings lol


Added on August 16, 2010, 4:23 pm
QUOTE(aLertz @ Aug 16 2010, 03:35 PM)
face problem? hahaha jk nia jk nia...

maybe they see u as a threat...tats y they aim to eliminate u 1st coz later u might even win even-though its 1v4  shocking.gif
*
You know what, that's what I am facing in "bronze"leagues. Playing with friends basically and in a way it is harder than my platinum games rofl

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 16 2010, 04:23 PM
popcorn513
post Aug 16 2010, 05:45 PM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 16 2010, 12:42 PM)
To be save in ZvZ. Throw down 11/12 overpool on small maps and 13 pool on large maps like scrap station. Prepare a spine crawler and you're good to go. Usually I like being 6 pool since it could be an easy win =D
*
I played 1v1 league with 6pool and get silver lol
But if they know how to defend then i just surrender since economy is too huge different (also lazy to recover my economy....)and seems zerg vs terran 6 pool ling rush high chance to win.
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post Aug 17 2010, 11:10 AM

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It seems an interesting stuff here, 6pool. But if I accidentally screw anything up then KO liao.

How u guys do it? 6 creep, then pool, thn few more creep? thn lings all the way w/o OL right.
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post Aug 17 2010, 11:18 AM

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QUOTE(wonderlew @ Aug 17 2010, 11:10 AM)
It seems an interesting stuff here, 6pool. But if I accidentally screw anything up then KO liao.

How u guys do it? 6 creep, then pool, thn few more creep? thn lings all the way w/o OL right.
*
6 creep, wat?
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post Aug 17 2010, 11:31 AM

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6drones. the one gather mines
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post Aug 17 2010, 11:32 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 17 2010, 11:18 AM)
6 creep, wat?
*
creep colony rofl!

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post Aug 17 2010, 11:44 AM

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QUOTE(wonderlew @ Aug 17 2010, 11:31 AM)
6drones. the one gather mines
*
if i 6 pool ill just get 1 worker after pool and then 3 ling when pool done
then overlord

and keep pumping lings
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post Aug 17 2010, 12:48 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 17 2010, 11:44 AM)
if i 6 pool ill just get 1 worker after pool and then 3 ling when pool done
then overlord

and keep pumping lings
*
2 drones is fine to make it 7/10 n rdy for lings...
enough time for 3 larvae also n better eco...
usually u can start saving for larvae for lings when ur pool hp is >400

i alwiz 6 pool insane AI for warm up laugh.gif
but if u wan get the zergling rush achievement...
then don't build any drone after pool... biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by aLertz: Aug 17 2010, 12:49 PM
popcorn513
post Aug 17 2010, 01:31 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 17 2010, 11:44 AM)
if i 6 pool ill just get 1 worker after pool and then 3 ling when pool done
then overlord

and keep pumping lings
*
Ya, same tactic, but i'm pacnic if they can defend my ling (protoss cannon, terran bunker), then my ling just can stand outside wait lose....lol, doono how to transition already, drone count too low
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post Aug 17 2010, 02:22 PM

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QUOTE(popcorn513 @ Aug 17 2010, 01:31 PM)
Ya, same tactic, but i'm pacnic if they can defend my ling (protoss cannon, terran bunker), then my ling just can stand outside wait lose....lol, doono how to transition already, drone count too low
*
it's usually do or die...
else...mus play defensive a while until eco stable...
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post Aug 17 2010, 02:57 PM

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QUOTE(xundeadx @ Aug 16 2010, 02:39 PM)
all the info is base on 1v1? it seems u guys all love 1v1s
*
Well 1 v 1 is where u will learn the most ( quote from Husky ^^ ) ... since you don't have to worry about your allies sucking, or your opponents gang up on you... just worry about the "one" .... i find 1v1 games extremely engaging. biggrin.gif


QUOTE(aLertz @ Aug 17 2010, 12:48 PM)
2 drones is fine to make it 7/10 n rdy for lings...
enough time for 3 larvae also n better eco...
usually u can start saving for larvae for lings when ur pool hp is >400
i alwiz 6 pool insane AI for warm up laugh.gif
but if u wan get the zergling rush achievement...
then don't build any drone after pool... biggrin.gif
*
Speaking of achievements, i cant seem to get the 5-zealot rush achievement... =.="
Any ideas to this ? I alwiz miss by few seconds... sweat.gif
Quazacolt
post Aug 17 2010, 03:19 PM

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QUOTE(aLertz @ Aug 17 2010, 12:48 PM)
2 drones is fine to make it 7/10 n rdy for lings...
enough time for 3 larvae also n better eco...
usually u can start saving for larvae for lings when ur pool hp is >400

i alwiz 6 pool insane AI for warm up laugh.gif
but if u wan get the zergling rush achievement...
then don't build any drone after pool... biggrin.gif
*
haha sometimes i just save up the 1 worker for earlier overlord ^^

if i dont want to and need gas, then i will get 2 drones lo
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post Aug 17 2010, 06:24 PM

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QUOTE(noob4life @ Aug 17 2010, 02:57 PM)
Well 1 v 1 is where u will learn the most ( quote from Husky ^^ ) ...  since you don't have to worry about your allies sucking, or your opponents gang up on you... just worry about the "one" ....  i find 1v1 games extremely engaging.  biggrin.gif
Speaking of achievements, i cant seem to get the 5-zealot rush achievement...  =.="
Any ideas to this ?  I alwiz miss by few seconds...  sweat.gif
*
I just completed 5-zealot rush achievement last night, build order (initially i thought have to use warp gate to warp zealot only can get achievement, misunderstanding on the requirement)
1) build 2 more probe (until food 8/10)
2) build pylon, build gateway and another gateway when got the mineral
3) once gateway is done, spam zealot (remember to chronoboost!!!!), you will get 5 zealot with food 18/18 rclxms.gif
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post Aug 17 2010, 10:13 PM

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when to stop spawning zergling and go for better stuff?
Quazacolt
post Aug 18 2010, 07:51 AM

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ok got some replays up. bear in mind though that zerg is my weakest play so there isnt really much to be shown here cept to the new players perhaps:

so yeah a mass orgy of zerg players. lol

200 food massing hydra and me being a little cocky about it tongue.gif
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post Aug 18 2010, 11:48 AM

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im loving muta + corrupter + brood lord
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post Aug 18 2010, 12:37 PM

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awesome zerg play! no air units some more. biggrin.gif

btw, what are pools? 13 pools? nevermind. figured it out. tongue.gif

i played my 1st vs human game last night (after more than a decade no vs human in SC), the fella tried to marine rush me by having 2 bunkers VERY near my base while using 2 supply depot and a barrack to block his entrance.

i choose random and ended up with zerg (my strongest race in SC but it's my WEAKEST in SC2 since i rarely play it).

so being unfamiliar with other zerg tech other than zerglings, i did a rush on that fella. taking down the supply depot first. haha. and spamming zerglings....... then only to realize the bunkers with a few marines nearby (he sent 1 marine to hit my hatchery, nice giveaway).

after that he attempted to escape and all but in the end it was GG. game took less than 9 minutes i think.
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post Aug 18 2010, 05:40 PM

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shit so full of win.
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post Aug 18 2010, 05:50 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 18 2010, 05:40 PM)








shit so full of win.
*
thats not strategy, thats bullshit lol.
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post Aug 18 2010, 06:06 PM

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QUOTE(Sichiri @ Aug 18 2010, 05:50 PM)
thats not strategy, thats bullshit lol.
*
>Everything starts from larvae
> THE DRONE BECAME AN EXTRACTOR

perfect strategy right thar.
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post Aug 18 2010, 07:41 PM

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hoikk, don't quote the videos laaaa.

btw today my 2nd game, loss. cos i ter-silap with the map. assume opponent appear on opposite side, to realize is not there. wasted few minutes. kena void ray.

protoss kacau go block the entrance. biggrin.gif gg cos too few mutalisk before void ray come.
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post Aug 18 2010, 08:54 PM

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was over at Craftingstars.com and I saw this video.. its in Korean so I dont know what he is talking about..

but MAN... thats one beautiful Nydus play! I know nydus is a good tool.. but that guy just push it to the limit!



btw.. I dont know if the youtube link up there will work or not.. but the link is as follows

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

edit: nope.. i dunno how to make that YOUTUBE tag work..

*goldfries : edited youtube tag for you.

This post has been edited by goldfries: Aug 18 2010, 10:25 PM
mr_nobigdeal
post Aug 19 2010, 12:06 AM

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Zerg all the way!!!

for me Terran or Protoss are only for noob which i think you dont hv to think hard to win the game as they got advantage in everything.

but Zerg, it's all about strategy.










TSMoonflown
post Aug 19 2010, 12:43 AM

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QUOTE(mr_nobigdeal @ Aug 19 2010, 12:06 AM)
Zerg all the way!!!

for me Terran or Protoss are only for noob which i think you dont hv to think hard to win the game as they got advantage in everything.

but Zerg, it's all about strategy.
*
Now now we don't wanna offend friends from other races, keep it friendly. Every race requires different skills and senses to play.
eugoreez
post Aug 19 2010, 01:07 AM

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QUOTE(mr_nobigdeal @ Aug 19 2010, 12:06 AM)
Zerg all the way!!!

for me Terran or Protoss are only for noob which i think you dont hv to think hard to win the game as they got advantage in everything.

but Zerg, it's all about strategy.
*
no not really..

QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 19 2010, 12:43 AM)
Now now we don't wanna offend friends from other races, keep it friendly. Every race requires different skills and senses to play.
*
yup thumbup.gif
i play all 3 races.. and i loved all of them.. everyone of them got their own particular fun factor biggrin.gif
roronoa_zorro
post Aug 19 2010, 02:20 AM

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wut is zerg strategy vs protos carrier?
they will block the entrance so i cannot ling rush
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post Aug 19 2010, 02:27 AM

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QUOTE(mr_nobigdeal @ Aug 19 2010, 12:06 AM)
Zerg all the way!!!

for me Terran or Protoss are only for noob which i think you dont hv to think hard to win the game as they got advantage in everything.

but Zerg, it's all about strategy.
*
Lost to many toss and terran isit? Explains alot lah.
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post Aug 19 2010, 04:19 AM

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apparently ZvT is still rather imbalanced now, I presume they will nerf terran or add stuff to zerg to make them stronger.
diasrandford
post Aug 19 2010, 05:02 AM

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lol... Protoss doesnt need to think hard... i must be dreamin.
---
Managing high cost units. have to very careful of deciding a single unit actions just to survive zergs or terrans aggresive plays.

But then again. Im just a noob. = (
---

Anyway, gonna learn some nydus network harass. GLA style from command and conquer generals~ XD

This post has been edited by diasrandford: Aug 19 2010, 05:24 AM
ray148
post Aug 19 2010, 05:44 AM

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QUOTE(eugoreez @ Aug 19 2010, 01:07 AM)
no not really..
yup  thumbup.gif
i play all 3 races.. and i loved all of them.. everyone of them got their own particular fun factor   biggrin.gif
*
real man play random... tongue.gif
o yeah...i just knew that if u chose random, ur win will be credited as random AND race choosen...

This post has been edited by ray148: Aug 19 2010, 06:28 AM
Sky.Live
post Aug 19 2010, 08:05 AM

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haha random.. I am alright with all race for the first 10 mins, after 10 ~ 20 only zerg is playable for me, after 20 + mins all races were unplayable, always suck at transition to 3rd tier
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post Aug 19 2010, 11:06 AM

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Normally i play with Zerg for the entire game but you need to be faster.

This strategy is focusing on Zerg unit only where you need to upgrade Melee Attacks and Ground Carapace at Evolution Chamber

and Metabolic Boost and Adrenal Glands at Spawning Pool.

1. start with 15 drones
2. build spawning pool, by this time u already have 2 overlord
3. build extractor and ready to spawn Queen
4. by this time, u can spawn 10 zerg
5. upgrade Melee Attacks and Ground Carapace at Evolution chamber and dont forget the speed upgrade for zerg at spawning pool.
6. upgrade Hatchery to Hive. This way you can upgrade to Level 2 of Melee Attacks and Ground Carapace
7. if you have enough mineral, build another hatchery. The key is you need to have masive mineral to spawn a lot of zerg and control the economy map.
8. Now you are ready for first attack.
9. Make your army divided by 2 group. 1 for counter the enemy and the other one fr back up.
10. I will sacrifice my first group to counter the enemy unit and the other I will send to their base unit and attack the SCV to slowdonw their economy.
11. Before that make sure you already upgrade Adrenal Glands at spawning pool which increase their attack by 20%
12. Now you are ready for combat!


TSMoonflown
post Aug 19 2010, 11:37 AM

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QUOTE(mr_nobigdeal @ Aug 19 2010, 11:06 AM)
Normally i play with Zerg for the entire game but you need to be faster.

This strategy is focusing on Zerg unit only where you need to upgrade Melee Attacks and Ground Carapace at Evolution Chamber

and Metabolic Boost and Adrenal Glands at Spawning Pool.

1. start with 15 drones
2. build spawning pool, by this time u already have 2 overlord
3. build extractor and ready to spawn Queen
4. by this time, u can spawn 10 zerg
5. upgrade Melee Attacks and Ground Carapace at Evolution chamber and dont forget the speed upgrade for zerg at spawning pool.
6. upgrade Hatchery to Hive. This way you can upgrade to Level 2 of Melee Attacks and Ground Carapace
7. if you have enough mineral, build another hatchery. The key is you need to have masive mineral to spawn a lot of zerg and control the economy map.
8. Now you are ready for first attack.
9. Make your army divided by 2 group. 1 for counter the enemy and the other one fr back up.
10. I will sacrifice my first group to counter the enemy unit and the other I will send to their base unit and attack the SCV to slowdonw their economy.
11. Before that make sure you already upgrade Adrenal Glands at spawning pool which increase their attack by 20%
12. Now you are ready for combat!
*
2 voidray/banshee and you're GG
Sky.Live
post Aug 19 2010, 11:42 AM

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QUOTE(mr_nobigdeal @ Aug 19 2010, 11:06 AM)
Normally i play with Zerg for the entire game but you need to be faster.

This strategy is focusing on Zerg unit only where you need to upgrade Melee Attacks and Ground Carapace at Evolution Chamber

and Metabolic Boost and Adrenal Glands at Spawning Pool.

1. start with 15 drones
2. build spawning pool, by this time u already have 2 overlord
3. build extractor and ready to spawn Queen
4. by this time, u can spawn 10 zerg
5. upgrade Melee Attacks and Ground Carapace at Evolution chamber and dont forget the speed upgrade for zerg at spawning pool.
6. upgrade Hatchery to Hive. This way you can upgrade to Level 2 of Melee Attacks and Ground Carapace
7. if you have enough mineral, build another hatchery. The key is you need to have masive mineral to spawn a lot of zerg and control the economy map.
8. Now you are ready for first attack.
9. Make your army divided by 2 group. 1 for counter the enemy and the other one fr back up.
10. I will sacrifice my first group to counter the enemy unit and the other I will send to their base unit and attack the SCV to slowdonw their economy.
11. Before that make sure you already upgrade Adrenal Glands at spawning pool which increase their attack by 20%
12. Now you are ready for combat!
*
15 pool is a big risk to take, u will have very less unit when people rush u with first production. Only do this when you are confident they wont rush u, teching or big map (far from each others).

For zergling u always need to split up, speed is vital.. split up and cover up enemy and attack. when you are outnumbered, run and get covered.
pure zergling can be very risky, because mostly likely you will have excess vespene gas, i would say making mutalisk out of the extra gas will help your harassment even better.

I am having problem to fight terran, when they block i usually go air, but after they get static def I start to get lost how to attack.
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post Aug 19 2010, 11:54 AM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 19 2010, 11:37 AM)
2 voidray/banshee and you're GG
*
why not just say 6 pool ling + drones + spines all in and instant guarantee win? LOL

btw didnt got my pm? >:[


Added on August 19, 2010, 11:55 am
QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Aug 19 2010, 11:42 AM)
15 pool is a big risk to take, u will have very less unit when people rush u with first production. Only do this when you are confident they wont rush u, teching or big map (far from each others).

For zergling u always need to split up, speed is vital.. split up and cover up enemy and attack. when you are outnumbered, run and get covered.
pure zergling can be very risky, because mostly likely you will have excess vespene gas, i would say making mutalisk out of the extra gas will help your harassment even better.

I am having problem to fight terran, when they block i usually go air, but after they get static def I start to get lost how to attack.
*
expand + harass else where.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 19 2010, 11:56 AM
Sky.Live
post Aug 19 2010, 12:18 PM

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starve them if they are camping?> once terran start to control an area it's quite hard to penetrate. Not good with advance unit like infestor or broodlord or ultralisk.
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post Aug 19 2010, 02:40 PM

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hmm 15 pool. 2-3 zealots in your base start slaughtering drones. (well, if the range of the bases is not very far)
Im a 7 pylon + gateway styler when vs-ing protoss or zerg.
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post Aug 19 2010, 03:20 PM

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Top Australia player Glade (AU) shows us how he use zerg to defeat top Malaysian player Renson (MY) in protoss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJvVL2zqvvs


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post Aug 19 2010, 03:31 PM

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I find that Zerg requires more tech/time to obtain an equivalent protoss unit. Even that it's still slightly weaker. For example I need get spawning pool -> hive -> hydralisk den to get hydralisk. Protoss only need cybernetic core to get their stalker.
roronoa_zorro
post Aug 19 2010, 03:54 PM

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i hardly win against protos using zerg haha
but always win against terran
Sky.Live
post Aug 19 2010, 04:39 PM

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QUOTE(Drian @ Aug 19 2010, 03:31 PM)
I find that Zerg requires more tech/time to obtain an equivalent protoss unit. Even that it's still slightly weaker. For example I need get spawning pool -> hive -> hydralisk den to get hydralisk. Protoss only need cybernetic core to get their stalker.
*
People seldom go for high tier unit for zerg. it's the timing and strategy by combining units which make zerg shine. However it's really difficult to achieve that
TSMoonflown
post Aug 19 2010, 05:20 PM

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QUOTE(ricky88 @ Aug 19 2010, 03:20 PM)
Top Australia player Glade (AU) shows us how he use zerg to defeat top Malaysian player Renson (MY) in protoss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJvVL2zqvvs


*
Commentator said "Lost temple is a 4 players map if I'm not mistaken." ROFL

Pretty badly played by the Protoss anyway. Badly placed structures and teching to collossus when opponent is heavy on roaches is a huge mistake.

This post has been edited by Moonflown: Aug 19 2010, 05:33 PM
Sichiri
post Aug 19 2010, 05:38 PM

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QUOTE(ricky88 @ Aug 19 2010, 03:20 PM)
Top Australia player Glade (AU) shows us how he use zerg to defeat top Malaysian player Renson (MY) in protoss


*
God the commentators are horrible.
TSMoonflown
post Aug 19 2010, 05:40 PM

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QUOTE(Sichiri @ Aug 19 2010, 05:38 PM)
God the commentators are horrible.
*
Aww I just did an indirect way of indicating that.

Anyway, +1 to the statement above.
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post Aug 19 2010, 05:42 PM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 19 2010, 05:40 PM)
Aww I just did an indirect way of indicating that.

Anyway, +1 to the statement above.
*
They sound like no enthusiasm at all. So fake. Almost like they're forcing themselves to say something.
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post Aug 19 2010, 06:00 PM

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they say alot of things wrong already sleep.gif
Quazacolt
post Aug 19 2010, 08:07 PM

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that cast, can i cry? lol
goldfries
post Aug 20 2010, 12:48 AM

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QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Aug 19 2010, 04:39 PM)
People seldom go for high tier unit for zerg. it's the timing and strategy by combining units which make zerg shine. However it's really difficult to achieve that
yup, even ultras are weak when you consider they're up against ranged units.

need quite some skill to combo and control.

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post Aug 20 2010, 06:23 AM

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they only way to win using zerg is to overwhelm the other by unit count
Sky.Live
post Aug 20 2010, 08:48 AM

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Considering the units now from zerg is relatively expensive, hydra cost 25 extra mineral now and being tier 2 compared to BW, still find it difficult to play without hydra. Too used to BW
aLertz
post Aug 20 2010, 09:02 AM

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QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Aug 20 2010, 08:48 AM)
Considering the units now from zerg is relatively expensive, hydra cost 25 extra mineral now and being tier 2 compared to BW, still find it difficult to play without hydra. Too used to BW
*
well hydra is better now...compare to BW
with 12 attack...longer hp
they can fight with majority of the units already biggrin.gif
compare to BW...lots of micro is needed in order to win a fight...
SUSfifi85
post Aug 20 2010, 09:10 AM

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very difficult to climb the zerg tech.. can i win by just massing hydralisk and roach?
Sky.Live
post Aug 20 2010, 10:33 AM

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QUOTE(aLertz @ Aug 20 2010, 09:02 AM)
well hydra is better now...compare to BW
with 12 attack...longer hp
they can fight with majority of the units already biggrin.gif
compare to BW...lots of micro is needed in order to win a fight...
*
they were cheap, fast moving (now creep relying), and easily tech up (1st tier).
Now they were more expensive, slow moving (without creep) and harder to get. With the differences being stronger in terms of hp / attack.

Zerg have to rely on tier 2 unit for anti air, that why people always go air against zerg, unless u count queen in too ( which is not viable to attack)

This post has been edited by Sky.Live: Aug 20 2010, 10:33 AM
mr_nobigdeal
post Aug 20 2010, 04:31 PM

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you can win by using Zerg unit only but make sure you have upgraded to high lvl. (spawning pool + evolution chamber)

what makes Zerg unit powerful is their speed, once you upgrade the speed, nothing can beat Zerg. Trust me.

Use the advantage of your speed to attack enemy worker to slowdown their economy and then their army. It always works on me.

Also make sure you build two hatchery at one place and spawn 2 Queens. This will increase he production and focus on mineral only as you only gonna

buy Zerg unit. If you upgrade the burrow capability, that's the plus point.


Added on August 20, 2010, 4:32 pm
QUOTE(mr_nobigdeal @ Aug 20 2010, 05:31 PM)
you can win by using Zerg unit only but make sure you have upgraded to high lvl. (spawning pool + evolution chamber)

what makes Zerg unit powerful is their speed, once you upgrade the speed, nothing can beat Zerg. Trust me.

Use the advantage of your speed to attack enemy worker to slowdown their economy and then their army. It always works on me.

Also make sure you build two hatchery at one place and spawn 2 Queens. This will increase he production and focus on mineral only as you only gonna

buy Zerg unit. If you upgrade the burrow capability, that's the plus point.
*
Also make sure in one group you must have at least 24 units.

This post has been edited by mr_nobigdeal: Aug 20 2010, 04:32 PM
aLertz
post Aug 20 2010, 04:46 PM

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QUOTE(fifi85 @ Aug 20 2010, 09:10 AM)
very difficult to climb the zerg tech.. can i win by just massing hydralisk and roach?
*
js mass hydra...
but there's still 1 problem...how to counter colossus??
they are freaking imba against zerg units...unless i go air sweat.gif
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post Aug 20 2010, 06:27 PM

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QUOTE(ricky88 @ Aug 19 2010, 03:20 PM)
Top Australia player Glade (AU) shows us how he use zerg to defeat top Malaysian player Renson (MY) in protoss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJvVL2zqvvs


*
it's best of 3 right?
Come on Malaysia, u can do it!
Put M'sia on the map!!
TSMoonflown
post Aug 20 2010, 08:06 PM

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QUOTE(aLertz @ Aug 20 2010, 04:46 PM)
js mass hydra...
but there's still 1 problem...how to counter colossus??
they are freaking imba against zerg units...unless i go air  sweat.gif
*
Don't expect to win collossus by just massing hydras.

If you anticipate collo prepare a move roach heavy army rather than hydra-centric army.

Also prepare around 3 corrupter per collo can change the tide as well. Make sure you micro against forcefields.
cusx
post Aug 20 2010, 09:14 PM

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hey peeople,

I was wondering, why I can't win Medium (Faster) in SC2 ?

I've practice speedlings build and rush to Terran, but a few Mara would kill them all.




Then I start into macro mode, making ultra's and stuff, but I will lose at last too..
xXBraskaXx
post Aug 20 2010, 09:54 PM

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QUOTE(cusx @ Aug 20 2010, 09:14 PM)
hey peeople,

I was wondering, why I can't win Medium (Faster)  in SC2 ?

I've practice speedlings build and rush to Terran, but a few Mara would kill them all.
Then I start into macro mode, making ultra's and stuff, but I will lose at last too..
*
How many units you have during the rush ? hmm.gif

Since it's AI Medium, during early game they will have roughly about 5 Mara, and what I did was to rush with 20+ Zergling and got them easily, then proceed to harassing their SCV biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by xXBraskaXx: Aug 20 2010, 09:56 PM
ricky88
post Aug 20 2010, 11:06 PM

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Glade (Zerg, AU) overcoming Renson (Protoss, MY) : Game 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duMiFDX2NyQ
mad_geist
post Aug 21 2010, 01:30 AM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 20 2010, 12:48 AM)
yup, even ultras are weak when you consider they're up against ranged units.

need quite some skill to combo and control.
*
I've seen a group of Ultra taking on a Mech heavy Terran army and won! Its one of TLO's game where he is using Zerg.. the effective way to use them is to surround/flank the Terran army so their splash damage will have full effect.. or so Husky said when he was commenting on the game

so yeah.. Zerg need skills to win tongue.gif (and I'm low on that)
cusx
post Aug 21 2010, 01:48 AM

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QUOTE(xXBraskaXx @ Aug 20 2010, 09:54 PM)
How many units you have during the rush ?  hmm.gif

Since it's AI Medium, during early game they will have roughly about 5 Mara, and what I did was to rush with 20+ Zergling and got them easily, then proceed to harassing their SCV  biggrin.gif
*
I rush with around 8.


I'm struggling to win using Zerg.


There is like no "tanker" or bunker to help defense.
Kerry1136
post Aug 21 2010, 12:12 PM

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Guys that plays zerg, is there any key to micromanage the zerglings to move around like i've seen in those replays the way they manage their lings to move around, spread evenly, etc..?
Awakened_Angel
post Aug 21 2010, 02:30 PM

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why they remove zerg lurkers? doh.gif
xXBraskaXx
post Aug 21 2010, 03:02 PM

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QUOTE(cusx @ Aug 21 2010, 01:48 AM)
I rush with around 8.
I'm struggling to win using Zerg.
There is like no "tanker" or bunker to help defense.
*
Well, in early game, I have 2 Hatcheries up, being able to spawn more Zerglings for early rush ~ rolleyes.gif

As for defense, only a few Spine Crawler + queen biggrin.gif

I find this kinda useful for Zerg players, try reading this: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/374722368 icon_idea.gif

This post has been edited by xXBraskaXx: Aug 21 2010, 03:07 PM
TSMoonflown
post Aug 21 2010, 03:52 PM

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QUOTE(Kerry1136 @ Aug 21 2010, 12:12 PM)
Guys that plays zerg, is there any key to micromanage the zerglings to move around like i've seen in those replays the way they manage their lings to move around, spread evenly, etc..?
*
In lings mirror battle, try to get a good concave before you initiate any battle so every of your lings could attack before your opponent does.

Another strat of micro-ing lings is to put them far away from your base. This would enable you to surround them from behind when they are pushing into your base.

Usually immortals/stalk/tanks etc would be behind units that are effective again lings such as marines/zealots.

Micro-ing lings against zealot would be harder because you have to control a single lings fast enough to minimize the damage done to your lings.
Soul-X
post Aug 21 2010, 07:02 PM

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QUOTE(Kerry1136 @ Aug 21 2010, 12:12 PM)
Guys that plays zerg, is there any key to micromanage the zerglings to move around like i've seen in those replays the way they manage their lings to move around, spread evenly, etc..?
*
i know what u mean but i also duno how to do that lol... only watched in replays
SUSf4tE
post Aug 21 2010, 08:25 PM

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Hi zerg pros,

is it worth to get banelings? or just skip? Getting a suicide unit just feel not worth sad.gif
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post Aug 21 2010, 09:19 PM

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QUOTE(f4tE @ Aug 21 2010, 08:25 PM)
Hi zerg pros,

is it worth to get banelings? or just skip? Getting a suicide unit just feel not worth sad.gif
*
It's actually worth it, provided you know how to use it well blush.gif
SUSf4tE
post Aug 21 2010, 10:00 PM

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do u know how to use it well? can teach?
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post Aug 21 2010, 10:24 PM

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QUOTE(f4tE @ Aug 21 2010, 10:00 PM)
do u know how to use it well? can teach?
*
I'm still not good at it yet lolx ~ blush.gif

I've seen some pros using it ~ cool2.gif

In most cases, they used banelings as surprise attack ~
roronoa_zorro
post Aug 21 2010, 10:30 PM

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learn burrow
when the ground unit come
pop up n suicide
SUSf4tE
post Aug 21 2010, 10:31 PM

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so baneling is just for fun? canot use as main attack unit then is waste of resource la.. unless u wana main main only
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post Aug 21 2010, 10:38 PM

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QUOTE(f4tE @ Aug 21 2010, 10:31 PM)
so baneling is just for fun? canot use as main attack unit then is waste of resource la.. unless u wana main main only
*
Of coz not for fun la ~ Haha ~

Just like what roronoa_zorro said, and by doing so, u can boom some part of your opponent's forces already ...
SUSf4tE
post Aug 21 2010, 10:48 PM

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they will just shoot it die. And need make many baneling only can manage to suicide so waste resource right. somemore if terran they can medic or repair the unit make effort useless
Soul-X
post Aug 21 2010, 10:59 PM

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zerg vs zerg

1 baneling ~ KA BOOOM!!! > 10++ zerglings died if enemy clamp them up together...

zerg vs terran

with enough zerglings to force marine n marauder clamp up together then with enough banelings... ~ KA BOOOM!!! > a bunch of marine marauder die...

zerg vs protoss

baneling...? not so effective with them... unless u say drop behind and go explode at their probes
SUSf4tE
post Aug 21 2010, 11:02 PM

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oic thnx soulman.. so baneling is only useful against zerg
Sichiri
post Aug 21 2010, 11:04 PM

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heres my little replay contribution

how to properly use zerglings

This post has been edited by Sichiri: Aug 21 2010, 11:04 PM
akira de aimbuster
post Aug 21 2010, 11:04 PM

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there are many ways to use it, run run run to enemy's base, evolve into baneling, suicide to the front door barrier, the barrier break, zerg rush hour laugh.gif
or when u surrounded ur enemy using zergling, then ur baneling all roll to ur enemy's machine/army, boom, a few baneling traded with a bunch of tank..etc laugh.gif


SUSf4tE
post Aug 21 2010, 11:09 PM

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then i have a strategy. Is it start of game i crreate many zergling so scout and as first unit.. then when go to mid of game turn all zergling to baneling and move up tech tree? good tactic?


Added on August 21, 2010, 11:10 pm
QUOTE(Sichiri @ Aug 21 2010, 11:04 PM)
heres my little replay contribution

how to properly use zerglings
*
got youtube vid? lazy download hehe

This post has been edited by f4tE: Aug 21 2010, 11:10 PM
Sichiri
post Aug 21 2010, 11:11 PM

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QUOTE(f4tE @ Aug 21 2010, 11:09 PM)

got youtube vid? lazy download hehe
*
takde lah
goldfries
post Aug 22 2010, 12:50 AM

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QUOTE(mad_geist @ Aug 21 2010, 01:30 AM)
I've seen a group of Ultra taking on a Mech heavy Terran army and won! Its one of TLO's game where he is using Zerg.. the effective way to use them is to surround/flank the Terran army so their splash damage will have full effect.. or so Husky said when he was commenting on the game

so yeah.. Zerg need skills to win tongue.gif (and I'm low on that)
*
erm. what you've seen was what i posted before lor.

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1511871?author=goldfries

biggrin.gif that game was awesome but that also remember that TLO also barely made it out, if lesser skill than him than chances are the zerg player GG already.

another fun way to play is spam hatchery and zerglings, as in super massive warm. like 1 time make 9 - 12 cocoon of zergling, come out is 18 - 24 units. biggrin.gif play with human, a bit cacat la since waste resources get zergling when opponent tech to air units already. play against AI, well it's still quite fun.
TSMoonflown
post Aug 22 2010, 01:07 AM

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QUOTE(f4tE @ Aug 21 2010, 11:09 PM)
then i have a strategy. Is it start of game i crreate many zergling so scout and as first unit.. then when go to mid of game turn all zergling to baneling and move up tech tree? good tactic?


Added on August 21, 2010, 11:10 pm
got youtube vid? lazy download hehe
*
No need to learn when you're so lazy =)
Soul-X
post Aug 22 2010, 01:14 AM

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xD moon, you today emo ar? dun la come i feed u a few rounds hahaha
SUSf4tE
post Aug 22 2010, 01:16 AM

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anyone got the gold medal in zerg unit challenge? seems impossible to die less than 10 unit
Quazacolt
post Aug 22 2010, 01:25 AM

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QUOTE(f4tE @ Aug 22 2010, 01:16 AM)
anyone got the gold medal in zerg unit challenge? seems impossible to die less than 10 unit
*
burrow is key, and yes, i got solid gold achievement lol
Soul-X
post Aug 22 2010, 02:15 AM

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f4tE is so cute~ lolz like little kid nia...

Just like Quazacolt said~ Burrow is the key... But heck I forget about burrow when I play the challenge... But I still manage to get Gold =D hahax... Micro Roaches~
noob4life
post Aug 22 2010, 04:01 AM

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QUOTE(Sichiri @ Aug 21 2010, 11:04 PM)
heres my little replay contribution

how to properly use zerglings
*
May i comment ? smile.gif
The protoss was crappy lol... wasted 500 gold warping in units at d pylon near the Zerg base when he didnt even scout it... but nice flanking with the zerglings ^^ Totally destroyed his stalker army. ( he didn't research blink yet )

If u had nydus drop the south part of his base ( which he cutely forgot to put a pylon for scouting purposes ) and attack his probes with speedlings, insta leaver ^^ Cuz everything was concentrated at the ramp area.
And you should send in a sacrificial overlord or 2... just to check his base, you never know what units they fielding inside their bases ! If he was getting void rays you'd be long dead.

anyway, nice one !

This post has been edited by noob4life: Aug 22 2010, 04:02 AM
cusx
post Aug 22 2010, 09:04 AM

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Anyone knows where can I find a list that tells me what Units are afraid of what ?

Preferably Zerg vs Terran units.

Like what Marauders afraid of, Siege Tanks etc..
TSMoonflown
post Aug 22 2010, 10:16 AM

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QUOTE(Soul-X @ Aug 22 2010, 01:14 AM)
xD moon, you today emo ar? dun la come i feed u a few rounds hahaha
*
Haha why said so, I just don't like spoonfeeding. Given link to guidance but still lazy to download.
Soul-X
post Aug 22 2010, 12:09 PM

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hahahah they are alot of these people everywhere, don't be so harsh on them~

sometimes they can be funny ahhahahaha

they always ask funny questions lol

This post has been edited by Soul-X: Aug 22 2010, 12:09 PM
noob4life
post Aug 22 2010, 12:21 PM

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Anyone wants to play a game today ? Maybe later ? Its a relaxing sunday. =D
vis.vls
post Aug 22 2010, 01:41 PM

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mass zergling fer teh win XD
Ahlok
post Aug 22 2010, 01:43 PM

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QUOTE(cusx @ Aug 22 2010, 09:04 AM)
Anyone knows where can I find a list that tells me what Units are afraid of what ?

Preferably Zerg vs Terran units.

Like what Marauders afraid of, Siege Tanks etc..
*
i'm looking for this kind of info too..

googled, & found : article in www.craftingstars.com quite useful to read rclxms.gif
vis.vls
post Aug 22 2010, 02:13 PM

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all da infos r in teh game...
MYNAMEISJASON
post Aug 22 2010, 05:12 PM

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The longer I play the harder it seems to get wins as zerg =/
Sichiri
post Aug 22 2010, 05:43 PM

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QUOTE(noob4life @ Aug 22 2010, 04:01 AM)
May i comment ?  smile.gif
The protoss was crappy lol... wasted 500 gold warping in units at d pylon near the Zerg base when he didnt even scout it... but nice flanking with the zerglings ^^  Totally destroyed his stalker army. ( he didn't research blink yet )

If u had nydus drop the south part of his base ( which he cutely forgot to put a pylon for scouting purposes ) and attack his probes with speedlings, insta leaver ^^  Cuz everything was concentrated at the ramp area.
And you should send in a sacrificial overlord or 2... just to check his base, you never know what units they fielding inside their bases ! If he was getting void rays you'd be long dead.

anyway, nice one !
*
yup, thanks for the comment.

The point of the replay is to show players how to effectively use zerglings even until late game, and not to show off how noob or pro both of us are. (We're both in silver league and that speak for itself)

cheers

Quazacolt
post Aug 22 2010, 07:59 PM

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Added on August 22, 2010, 8:02 pm
QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Aug 22 2010, 05:12 PM)
The longer I play the harder it seems to get wins as zerg =/
*
when i random as zherk, i cry rivers. lol

anyways, clicked reply instead of edit rofl.
and if you got any vids/replays to share and i have not posted on first page, do letme know and ill gladly add em up.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 22 2010, 08:03 PM
goldfries
post Aug 22 2010, 08:11 PM

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i played 5 games for placement. 4 games as zerg. 1 game as protoss. i won 3 games, all as zerg. tongue.gif

zerg happens to be my weakest race in terms of understanding their tech and such but somehow it's the race that i win most games using. biggrin.gif

my last game as protoss i lost to zergling rush cos my sucky build order. wrong strategy applied, thinking

a) pylon much stronger
b) cannon builds decently fast

gg decision there. sad.gif
kenixkenix
post Aug 22 2010, 10:10 PM

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i miss bw Zerg =(
TSMoonflown
post Aug 22 2010, 11:10 PM

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QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Aug 22 2010, 05:12 PM)
The longer I play the harder it seems to get wins as zerg =/
*
I'm exactly the opposite of you. The longer the game the higher chances for me to win.
goldfries
post Aug 22 2010, 11:13 PM

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i find no logic in the "longer i play harder to win" tongue.gif

i think zerg players should hit opponents hard and fast, zergling rush is always good but need to know when to stop and tech up, next comes roaches and mutas.

i donno la, in SC i felt Hydralisks were awesomeness units but playing SC2 campaign and multiplayer so far, don't find them appealing already.

and i prefer they spit acid instead of shooting spikes.
Chobits
post Aug 22 2010, 11:32 PM

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why no more lurkers ??

zerg somehow very hard to play without the anti air of hydralisks....why hydra are lv2 units ?
evofantasy
post Aug 22 2010, 11:48 PM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 22 2010, 11:10 PM)
I'm exactly the opposite of you. The longer the game the higher chances for me to win.
*
i think this will change...
after today's IEM of 5 rax reaper 2hrs practice to micro it vs idra, zerg tears gonna flow (even djwheat shed zerg tears LOL)

QUOTE(Chobits @ Aug 22 2010, 11:32 PM)
why no more lurkers ??

zerg somehow very hard to play without the anti air of hydralisks....why hydra are lv2 units ?
*
instead of letting u being reactive to ur opponent, u can be the aggressor wit ur early lings then tech to t2 comfortably...
Chobits
post Aug 22 2010, 11:57 PM

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i'm pretty good with the zergling rush, just that when it fails...i have no idea what to build.
Normally i get wasted by MMs of terran or just protoss void rays, too late to get out hydras, gas 100!!! @@

lurkers and hydra were the staple strategy for me during sc1, so when they nerfed and removed....needless to say i was very sad.
evofantasy
post Aug 23 2010, 12:00 AM

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QUOTE(Chobits @ Aug 22 2010, 11:57 PM)
i'm pretty good with the zergling rush, just that when it fails...i have no idea what to build.
Normally i get wasted by MMs of terran or just protoss void rays, too late to get out hydras, gas 100!!! @@

lurkers and hydra were the staple strategy for me during sc1, so when they nerfed and removed....needless to say i was very sad.
*
u need to have a sound transition from ur zergling opening...
and of course u need to scout...
if he go MMM, u can go baneling...
VRs? jz get an extra queen =p
goldfries
post Aug 23 2010, 12:02 AM

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a lot of things changed oh, if not mistaken last time overlord immediately can detect cloaked units. now totally cannot, need to upgrade to overseer.

about zergling rush, i think the key is

a) need to know when to stop
b) need to also know when to start massing up the tech tree, for this move VESPENE is super damn important!

drones harvest unbelievably fast compared to SCV / Probes, so I always find the minerals go up really fast so I'll expand to a new hatchery asap but expansion location (next to existing, or go new spot) depends on whether i'm spamming units or wanting more resources.
evofantasy
post Aug 23 2010, 12:06 AM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 23 2010, 12:02 AM)
a lot of things changed oh, if not mistaken last time overlord immediately can detect cloaked units. now totally cannot, need to upgrade to overseer.

about zergling rush, i think the key is

a) need to know when to stop
b) need to also know when to start massing up the tech tree, for this move VESPENE is super damn important!

drones harvest unbelievably fast compared to SCV / Probes, so I always find the minerals go up really fast so I'll expand to a new hatchery asap but expansion location (next to existing, or go new spot) depends on whether i'm spamming units or wanting more resources.
*
zergs always get a fast gas so they can start speed research for speedlings when pool finishes...
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post Aug 23 2010, 12:13 AM

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is massing hydras a good idea ?
goldfries
post Aug 23 2010, 12:16 AM

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last victory i played, i didn't even create any lings until much later.

spammed muta instead but when muta facing difficulty, i spam them lings cos gas limitation.

it worked out well since now my terran adversary have both air and ground units to handle (his 2 reapers took out my expansion base drones but left the hatchery in tact......... )

my mutas taking his marines, SD and SCV but he's starting to make turrets.......... fortunately turrets can't cover everywhere. i set my mutas to some location and press H to maintain position while killing off SCV. zerglings by then had already breached the base cos earlier micro of muta to clear the SD blockade.


Added on August 23, 2010, 12:17 am
QUOTE(Chobits @ Aug 23 2010, 12:13 AM)
is massing hydras a good idea ?
me thinks it's never wise to spam 1 unit type.

last i did that vs AI it was a failure.

i think ling + roach / hydra + muta is a nice combo.

evofantasy
post Aug 23 2010, 12:17 AM

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QUOTE(Chobits @ Aug 23 2010, 12:13 AM)
is massing hydras a good idea ?
*
it depends on wut race is ur opponent and what is he doing as well...
hydras have good dps but kinda squishy...
try to watch some replays or day9daily..
it'll give u some idea...
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post Aug 23 2010, 12:29 AM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 23 2010, 12:17 AM)
it depends on wut race is ur opponent and what is he doing as well...
hydras have good dps but kinda squishy...
try to watch some replays or day9daily..
it'll give u some idea...
*
replays huh....nvr watched any before

maybe should or just learn the hard way. hahaha

hydra n lurkers were the ideal strategy in sc1. but seems mass hydra isn't so good now in sc2. haven't learn how to use infestors yet.
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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 22 2010, 11:10 PM)
I'm exactly the opposite of you. The longer the game the higher chances for me to win.
*
im in between lol i can start out good, but once mid game, gg. that said, if im still alive and allowed to go 2-3 bases, i pick up really quick lol

just need to learn to smoothen out the mid game transitions


Added on August 23, 2010, 4:17 am
QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 22 2010, 11:13 PM)
i find no logic in the "longer i play harder to win" tongue.gif

i think zerg players should hit opponents hard and fast, zergling rush is always good but need to know when to stop and tech up, next comes roaches and mutas.

i donno la, in SC i felt Hydralisks were awesomeness units but playing SC2 campaign and multiplayer so far, don't find them appealing already.

and i prefer they spit acid instead of shooting spikes.
*
weak late game. makes total sense especially when zerg late game are still consisting of "weak" units while counterparts like T/P have thors/BC and voids/Carriers/colossi


Added on August 23, 2010, 4:21 am
QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 23 2010, 12:02 AM)
a lot of things changed oh, if not mistaken last time overlord immediately can detect cloaked units. now totally cannot, need to upgrade to overseer.

about zergling rush, i think the key is

a) need to know when to stop
b) need to also know when to start massing up the tech tree, for this move VESPENE is super damn important!

drones harvest unbelievably fast compared to SCV / Probes, so I always find the minerals go up really fast so I'll expand to a new hatchery asap but expansion location (next to existing, or go new spot) depends on whether i'm spamming units or wanting more resources.
*
hatch is 350 including drone as opposed to 400 nexus/command. also, zerg typically dont use much minerals unless ur going roach heavy. not so much that they harvest fast. its just about the same really. of course, if ur econ macro focusing, then zerg have advantage as they can saturate their mineral line quicker than others due to larva boost from queen. but that also mean ur army is null.


Added on August 23, 2010, 4:23 am
QUOTE(Chobits @ Aug 23 2010, 12:29 AM)
replays huh....nvr watched any before

maybe should or just learn the hard way. hahaha

hydra n lurkers were the ideal strategy in sc1. but seems mass hydra isn't so good now in sc2. haven't learn how to use infestors yet.
*
first post (2nd to be more accurate) have my replay on massing hydra. sure, it "worked" there, but only because i severely outnumber and outecon the opponent. you can see how fast hydras die btw.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 23 2010, 04:23 AM
mad_geist
post Aug 23 2010, 08:00 AM

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hey guys.. I need some tip here.. as a Zerg how do I win against Terran Hard AI?

I always loose when the Tanks came out.. or abit after that..

I would need banelings right?

maybe my BO is whacked.. so I cant keep up in terms of Tech.. usually I have zergling and baneling when they came at me with tanks
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post Aug 23 2010, 09:40 AM

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now oni i realize collo is considered as "air" unit... doh.gif
i thought it was a ground unit all this while blush.gif
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post Aug 23 2010, 10:02 AM

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For me if using Zerg vs P or T, you have to play aggressive on the early or mid of the game. If play defensive and wait for a long game, I found it hard for Zerg to win..
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post Aug 23 2010, 10:09 AM

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lol, i just played my 1st time as zerg (i usually play protoss) vs the very hard AI...

you don't need much actually to win against AI...

all i had was just to mass up zerlings...with speed...and swarm their base...

against the terran AI (which i managed to random)...their travelling time to my base and back to theirs are really slow (it was on desert oasis)...so, i managed to cripple it's economy and save a few of my lings...and after that, mass lings again and destroy its base...

it's that easy...

probably will be a little harder to pull out in maps like steppes of war...but, i think massing lings vs terran = easy win

why? AI will move back to its base when you attack it (most of the time, it will move back to its base)...speedlings are cheap and you can constantly reinforce your army...and pull it back when the AI reaches its own base

collo = air and ground

collo is really flimsy against (air) vikings...and could be sniped with mutas as well

zerg late game vs terran is really difficult to win...at least in pro matches

terran has too many counters for now against both races...and having mules mining off a new expo is just...XD

This post has been edited by LostWanderer: Aug 23 2010, 10:12 AM
Sky.Live
post Aug 23 2010, 11:11 AM

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I see IrDa doing quite well in lategame vs terran of zerg, but not much of us are being IrDA... He is emo but he does have some skill...

I am always not in favour to use ultralisk but after seeing how IrDa abuse their opponent I think I am changing my view towards broodlord and ultralisk (in the lategame)

p/s in late game zerg are in disadvantage in air i felt, it's hard for mass corrupter vs mass viking

This post has been edited by Sky.Live: Aug 23 2010, 11:12 AM
noob4life
post Aug 23 2010, 11:34 AM

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Just got promoted to silver league today... funny promotion though... my terran enemy left at around 7 minutes for no apparent reason ( we haven't even fought yet... all i did was scouted him with zerglings lol )
And wala, promotion. ~_~
Sky.Live
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QUOTE(noob4life @ Aug 23 2010, 11:34 AM)
Just got promoted to silver league today... funny promotion though... my terran enemy left at around 7 minutes for no apparent reason ( we haven't even fought yet... all i did was scouted him with zerglings lol )
And wala, promotion. ~_~
*
gratz then =)

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post Aug 23 2010, 11:43 AM

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QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Aug 23 2010, 11:11 AM)
p/s in late game zerg are in disadvantage in air i felt, it's hard for mass corrupter vs mass viking
*
Hard as in ? Hard to obtain them or hard to fight against viking ? I think they're pretty powahful against any kind of air unit.... ( plus they got a nice unit model hahaha, flying-tentacle-brain ftw ! )
Sky.Live
post Aug 23 2010, 11:46 AM

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hard to against air, coz viking does some degree of aoe, when mass up like 10+, it's getting tough
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post Aug 23 2010, 12:07 PM

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QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Aug 23 2010, 11:11 AM)
I see IrDa doing quite well in lategame vs terran of zerg, but not much of us are being IrDA... He is emo but he does have some skill...

I am always not in favour to use ultralisk but after seeing how IrDa abuse their opponent I think I am changing my view towards broodlord and ultralisk (in the lategame)

p/s in late game zerg are in disadvantage in air i felt, it's hard for mass corrupter vs mass viking
*
idra rage quit and BM on terran players. nuff said. lol


Added on August 23, 2010, 12:09 pm
QUOTE(noob4life @ Aug 23 2010, 11:34 AM)
Just got promoted to silver league today... funny promotion though... my terran enemy left at around 7 minutes for no apparent reason ( we haven't even fought yet... all i did was scouted him with zerglings lol )
And wala, promotion. ~_~
*
should see my beta screen shot, promoted out of a lost.

like yeah, close match, but a lost is a lost and i got diamond league from that match. lolwut?


Added on August 23, 2010, 12:10 pm
QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Aug 23 2010, 11:46 AM)
hard to against air, coz viking does some degree of aoe, when mass up like 10+, it's getting tough
*
only single player vikings got aoe. mplayer no. but vikings cheaper and easily massable compared to corruptors. and they can land if air is no longer needed while corruptors cant (meaning, you cant just blindly mass em as they will be useless once opponent tech switch)

vikings shoot further and fly slightly faster too AFAIK. so yeah.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 23 2010, 12:10 PM
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post Aug 23 2010, 12:18 PM

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QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Aug 23 2010, 11:11 AM)

p/s in late game zerg are in disadvantage in air i felt, it's hard for mass corrupter vs mass viking
*
arlo what is hydra for? +damage against air..
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post Aug 23 2010, 12:22 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 23 2010, 04:15 AM)
weak late game. makes total sense especially when zerg late game are still consisting of "weak" units while counterparts like T/P have thors/BC and voids/Carriers/colossi
eh, when he said play "longer" he meant within the single game izzit? ahhh i see. biggrin.gif
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post Aug 23 2010, 01:28 PM

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another dilemma while using zerg is:

1) fast expansion, but u'll be vulnerable to rush..

2) 1 base play with 1st and 2nd tier units, and go rush, but u'll be vulnerable on the economy if the rush fails
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post Aug 23 2010, 01:32 PM

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i did 1) yesterday, lost my expansion base drones to reaper (he sent 2) but i won the game. phew.

i think key is to know when to stop rushing and start teching. some more zerg can't barricade, so instead of barricading i usually put lings on multiple locations so that when they come, the links charge from multiple directions.

melee units in SC2 are dumb of course, you'll see lings running around like musical chair when there's no place around to claw already.
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post Aug 23 2010, 01:38 PM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 23 2010, 01:32 PM)
i did 1) yesterday, lost my expansion base drones to reaper (he sent 2) but i won the game. phew.

i think key is to know when to stop rushing and start teching. some more zerg can't barricade, so instead of barricading i usually put lings on multiple locations so that when they come, the links charge from multiple directions.

melee units in SC2 are dumb of course, you'll see lings running around like musical chair when there's no place around to claw already.
*
yeah, the advantage of TvZ is that they have 2 types of early harasser..
reapers and helions..

But expect them to play defensive on the early game..
reapers and helions they usually use for scout.. harassing is just a bonus..
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post Aug 23 2010, 01:43 PM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 23 2010, 01:32 PM)
melee units in SC2 are dumb of course, you'll see lings running around like musical chair when there's no place around to claw already.
*
I actually like that, it makes them look feral and animal-like, as they should be.
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post Aug 23 2010, 01:48 PM

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Anyone have a video cast or replay of that 5 rax reaper crushing zerg game in IEM?

This post has been edited by Sky.Live: Aug 23 2010, 01:49 PM
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post Aug 23 2010, 01:48 PM

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but but but that happens to zealots, dark templars and firebats too! (ok firebats not in multiplayer la.)
evofantasy
post Aug 23 2010, 01:57 PM

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QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Aug 23 2010, 11:11 AM)
I see IrDa doing quite well in lategame vs terran of zerg, but not much of us are being IrDA... He is emo but he does have some skill...

I am always not in favour to use ultralisk but after seeing how IrDa abuse their opponent I think I am changing my view towards broodlord and ultralisk (in the lategame)

p/s in late game zerg are in disadvantage in air i felt, it's hard for mass corrupter vs mass viking
*
watch IEM 2010 finals last nite and tell me how well can he do vs a terran...
morrow using a build taught by dimaga with only 2 hrs practice > idra who practice 12hrs per day...

the 5 rax reaper build contain the zerg in his base without allowing him to reach even t2 usually wut more t3...
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post Aug 23 2010, 02:05 PM

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After watching yesterday how IdrA played, I noticed that Reapers might need to nerf abit... On range maybe...

Yes you will need micro and see how you play the game as well... But still, its a suuuuuuuppppppeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrr advantage to Terran...

How to get 3rd hatch if opponent keep harass your main and natural?
Why you need to get a 3rd hatch you say? Coz while your opponent is harrassing you with annoying reapers, he already got his 2nd command centre...

2 hatch vs 2 command center? command center wins... zerg need at least 1 more base than enemy in every game =___=

I feel IdrA's pain after watching all those videos... Pain Pain...
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post Aug 23 2010, 02:07 PM

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so far i feel like the Terran is strongest race in SC2. next is Protoss, damn VR rush.

even the AI uses MMM rush.
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QUOTE(Soul-X @ Aug 23 2010, 02:05 PM)
After watching yesterday how IdrA played, I noticed that Reapers might need to nerf abit... On range maybe...

Yes you will need micro and see how you play the game as well... But still, its a suuuuuuuppppppeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrr advantage to Terran...

How to get 3rd hatch if opponent keep harass your main and natural?
Why you need to get a 3rd hatch you say? Coz while your opponent is harrassing you with annoying reapers, he already got his 2nd command centre...

2 hatch vs 2 command center? command center wins... zerg need at least 1 more base than enemy in every game =___=

I feel IdrA's pain after watching all those videos... Pain Pain...
*
that's what i was talking about.. the dilemma of early expansion or not..
for me, if playing againts terran players who like to do an early harass, just play with 1 hatchery.. and make an early rush to the opponent such as bannels..
goldfries
post Aug 23 2010, 02:16 PM

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yeah. i understand. this game is all about risk man.

i like it when my opponent decide to bunker in. this mean they spend more time defending and tech-ing up. i just have to kacau kau kau before they reach nice tech units.

costs a lot of M and V just to tech up, let alone build. zerglings only need M. if i intend to go Muta then i would allocate more drones for gas, even up to 4 drones per gas.
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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 23 2010, 02:16 PM)
yeah. i understand. this game is all about risk man.

i like it when my opponent decide to bunker in. this mean they spend more time defending and tech-ing up. i just have to kacau kau kau before they reach nice tech units.

costs a lot of M and V just to tech up, let alone build. zerglings only need M. if i intend to go Muta then i would allocate more drones for gas, even up to 4 drones per gas.
*
speedlings + muta rush is also a good combo..
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post Aug 23 2010, 02:24 PM

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sometimes i don't even upgrade. i just send to whack only.

still not in a habit to use roach / bane / hydra

i miss them guardians from SC too. biggrin.gif
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post Aug 23 2010, 02:25 PM

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After playing like 10-20 times, finally gotten the `Morph 20 Zerglings in first 250 seconds of the game` achievement.

U can really get your lings dem fast...not that i know how to use zerg anyway hahaha tongue.gif
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post Aug 23 2010, 02:26 PM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 23 2010, 02:13 PM)
that's what i was talking about.. the dilemma of early expansion or not..
for me, if playing againts terran players who like to do an early harass, just play with 1 hatchery.. and make an early rush to the opponent such as bannels..
*
1 hatch play would never give u enuff units against terran...
the good thing bout the reaper opening is that u can transition into MMM or tanks without much trouble...
goldfries
post Aug 23 2010, 02:29 PM

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normally i would have a 2nd hatch near my 1st hatch, if i have 300 M surplus.......... which i usually do. drones on creep = damn fast.

reason to have it near is because it's starts much faster (travel to next spot takes time) which means more unit production.

in some cases, i do build my 2nd hatch straight on another plot, in games where i think that would drag longer.

as what evo mentioned, no matter how - 1 hatch is not enough! i like having 3 or more hatches.

keep in mind to have overlord in part of the queue once in a while. it sucks when you have 9 larvae and can't do anything cos lacking overlords.
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post Aug 23 2010, 02:33 PM

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Blizz need to balance it fast! =(
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post Aug 23 2010, 02:33 PM

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» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


pretty much why i cry rivers everytime random gets me zherk.

i 1v1 yesterday on plat (facing diamonds loolol), 4 win and 4 loss. 3 loss is zerg. 1 loss is protoss cuz i did some bad micromanagement and its just small mistake. i can live with that. zerg on the other hand, sigh.
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post Aug 23 2010, 02:35 PM

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and your losses were due to ..............? mix of reapers? mmm? mech?
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post Aug 23 2010, 02:35 PM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 23 2010, 02:16 PM)
yeah. i understand. this game is all about risk man.

i like it when my opponent decide to bunker in. this mean they spend more time defending and tech-ing up. i just have to kacau kau kau before they reach nice tech units.

costs a lot of M and V just to tech up, let alone build. zerglings only need M. if i intend to go Muta then i would allocate more drones for gas, even up to 4 drones per gas.
*
4 drone to gas unless distance is further, does nothing lol. because ur drone just sitting at extractor even on 3 drones
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 23 2010, 02:35 PM)
4 drone to gas unless distance is further, does nothing lol. because ur drone just sitting at extractor even on 3 drones
i get picky sometimes. if i see there's a gap (no waiting drones) and have super a lot of M and sufficient forces, then yeah i'd cram the 4th one there.

but usually is 2 - 3. i go 3 when i have a lot of M.

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 23 2010, 02:26 PM)
1 hatch play would never give u enuff units against terran...
the good thing bout the reaper opening is that u can transition into MMM or tanks without much trouble...
*
but for an early game, it's enuff to do an early rush such as lings+roach rush or banels+lings rush..

And also quite risky. If the early rush fails.. u die.. smile.gif
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post Aug 23 2010, 02:50 PM

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I still feels that SC1 zerg is more balanced... SC2 zerg is too....

Too...



Tooooo....

Taufu-ish.....

VS Terran...

1 - Early Reapers make you can't harass your enemy... The enemy harasses you 100%

2 - Hellion Harass comes after reapers SOMETIMES...

3 - Mutalisks? By the time you have Mutalisks... They already have turrets everywhere... THIS IS NOT SC1 where you can stack your muta and the turret HP/Damage is low... This time Turret shoot your muta ass damn pain...

4 - Pretty much, you're screwed now...



VS Protoss

1 - ZERG RUSH!!! waaaiiitt... wtf is the zealot standing there? I can't get in!!

2 - Ok now I have Roaches... WTF!!! Sentry block the road with force fields and stalker hit from behind... Bully the short range of Roaches...

3 - OMG WTF is that?? Phoenix? Oh I only got 2 Queens... One in main and another in natural... SHIT!! Opponent got 3-4 Phoenix... Ohhh my overlord screaming in PAIN!! NOOOO!! Oh... I'm Screwed!!

4 - Ok... I manage to defend the Phoenix harass... Lets go!! OMFG Who's that tall guy?? collo... Colloo... collo whaattt??

5 - gg...

Sometimes when VS Protoss, If you late upgrade your Hatchery to Lair... And opponent send in all DTs... You're pretty much GG... I wished Overlord can detech stealth like how it used to be in SC1...



Mutalisk harass is still effective... But not as effective as in SC1... Hydralisk is one of the main 'logo' of zerg... They should make Hydralisk at least stronger?

100 Minerals 50Gas 2Supply... 80HP... 1x Damage... (5Range) = Hydralisk
100 Minerals 50Gas 2Supply... 125HP... 1x Damage, 20 Damage to Armor... (6Range) = Marauder
125 Minerals 50Gas 2Supply... 80HP 80Shield... 1x Damage (6Range)= Stalker

Stalker and Marauder only need Cybernetics Core and Tech Lab to build... Hydralisk? You need a LAIRRRR... LAIRR!!! And a Hydralisks Den... Sigh...
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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 23 2010, 02:40 PM)
but for an early game, it's enuff to do an early rush such as lings+roach rush or banels+lings rush..

And also quite risky. If the early rush fails.. u die.. smile.gif
*
If the bases are nearby and the terran player doesn't seal his ramp with barracks yes. Once a Terran player knows how to seal his ramp, I doubt you can "outrush" him. Roach needs gas, so if you can rush out many units of roaches , your opponnent too can rush out as many mauraders/marines.

Not forgetting that they can use the reaper hit and run technique early game. As irritating as mauraders.





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post Aug 23 2010, 02:54 PM

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QUOTE(Drian @ Aug 23 2010, 02:53 PM)
If the bases are nearby and the terran player doesn't seal his ramp with barracks yes. Once a Terran player knows how to seal his ramp, I doubt you can "outrush" him. Roach needs gas, so if you can rush out many units of roaches , your opponnent too can rush out as many mauraders/marines.

Not forgetting that they can use the reaper hit and run technique early game. As irritating as mauraders.
*
6 pool, banelings
lol
evofantasy
post Aug 23 2010, 02:56 PM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 23 2010, 02:40 PM)
but for an early game, it's enuff to do an early rush such as lings+roach rush or banels+lings rush..

And also quite risky. If the early rush fails.. u die.. smile.gif
*
the reaper build would wipe ur rush clean as it provide fast early reapers...
u gotta remember that u no longer have the creep advantage when u put while he would be kiting u forever with reapers...

wut IEM2010 tell us?
TvZ is screwed when u are a zerg LOL...

as a fellow toss, i'm glade nt to meet reapers but i still get screwed by marauder openings doh.gif
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post Aug 23 2010, 02:56 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 23 2010, 02:54 PM)
6 pool, banelings
lol
*
doh.gif
Drian
post Aug 23 2010, 02:57 PM

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Many people say zerg race is suppose to mass and conquer. But how are you going to mass when an equivalent unit cost just as much as humans/protoss and the Zerg tier2 units are just equivalent to human/protoss tier 1 units?

evofantasy
post Aug 23 2010, 02:58 PM

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QUOTE(Drian @ Aug 23 2010, 02:57 PM)
Many people say zerg race is suppose to mass and conquer. But how are you going to mass when an equivalent unit cost just as much as humans/protoss and the Zerg tier2 units are just equivalent to human/protoss tier 1 units?
*
by having more base?
btw hydras have much higher DPS than stalkers...
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 23 2010, 02:56 PM)
the reaper build would wipe ur rush clean as it provide fast early reapers...
u gotta remember that u no longer have the creep advantage when u put while he would be kiting u forever with reapers...

wut IEM2010 tell us?
TvZ is screwed when u are a zerg LOL...

as a fellow toss, i'm glade nt to meet reapers but i still get screwed by marauder openings  doh.gif
*
speedlings can easily wipe the reapers i guess..
gotta micro on it..
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post Aug 23 2010, 03:02 PM

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I wonder is my self fear or what.. I have yet to won a single game against terran. When I start to play Sc2, every opponent i played against were toss and now it's all terran
evofantasy
post Aug 23 2010, 03:03 PM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 23 2010, 03:00 PM)
speedlings can easily wipe the reapers i guess..
gotta micro on it..
*
on creep speedling > reaper
off creep reaper > speedling

the reaper build involved the nitro packs for reapers...
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post Aug 23 2010, 03:07 PM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 23 2010, 03:00 PM)
speedlings can easily wipe the reapers i guess..
gotta micro on it..
*
yah and the reaper will just jump out from the cliff unharm. Without the creep it's slower for lings.
And when you're slower, they'll just use the "hit and run" technique. A group of 3 reaper can kill a group of 6 lings without getting hit. At that early game it's a big hit to your army.


Added on August 23, 2010, 3:10 pm
QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 23 2010, 02:58 PM)
by having more base?
btw hydras have much higher DPS than stalkers...
*
You're limited by the amount of minerals and especially gas. So even if you got 20-30 larvae on standby, what's the point if you can't convert all of them to army units. You will just have as many units as the terran/protoss.


This post has been edited by Drian: Aug 23 2010, 03:10 PM
evofantasy
post Aug 23 2010, 03:10 PM

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QUOTE(Drian @ Aug 23 2010, 03:07 PM)
yah and  the reaper will just jump out from the cliff unharm. Without the creep it's slower for lings.
And when you're slower, they'll just use the "hit and run" technique. A group of 3 reaper can kill a group of 6 lings without getting hit. At that early game it's a big hit to your army.
*
even morrow said that the reaper build is imba (post game interview with djwheat on djwheat's show)...
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post Aug 23 2010, 03:11 PM

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QUOTE(Soul-X @ Aug 23 2010, 02:50 PM)
3 - Mutalisks? By the time you have Mutalisks... They already have turrets everywhere... THIS IS NOT SC1 where you can stack your muta and the turret HP/Damage is low... This time Turret shoot your muta ass damn pain...


stack? as in all float together 1 single spot izzit?

QUOTE(Soul-X @ Aug 23 2010, 02:50 PM)
1 - ZERG RUSH!!! waaaiiitt... wtf is the zealot standing there? I can't get in!!


zealot still ok.

try kena pylon + gateway block with zealots being pumping out. sad.gif

QUOTE(Soul-X @ Aug 23 2010, 02:50 PM)
Stalker and Marauder only need Cybernetics Core and Tech Lab to build... Hydralisk? You need a LAIRRRR... LAIRR!!! And a Hydralisks Den... Sigh...
people go roaches liao lor. sad.gif

Hydralisk was my staple unit for SC, now ah? I don't remember making them, unless i bully AI kau kau and build for fun.

oh and the overlord part, just as what i highlighted earlier.............. why can't they detect cloaked like before!!!

was playing vs donno what AI the other day, banshees cloaked and then only i realize overlord can't see cloaked units. sad.gif


Added on August 23, 2010, 3:13 pm
QUOTE(Drian @ Aug 23 2010, 03:07 PM)
You're limited by the amount of minerals and especially gas. So even if you got 20-30 larvae on standby, what's the point if you can't convert all of them to army units. You will just have as many units as the terran/protoss.
zerg good units are really really really gas dependant, it's not like 1 siege tank needing 125 gas but can do massive damage.

i normally just spam those units and when run out of gas, just spam them lings or overlords.
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post Aug 23 2010, 03:16 PM

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Rather than complaining about the inept of the Zerg race, I suggest playing it without the mentality of Zerg being the weakest race else you may only use that as excuse of losing each time.


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post Aug 23 2010, 03:20 PM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 23 2010, 03:16 PM)
Rather than complaining about the inept of the Zerg race, I suggest playing it without the mentality of Zerg being the weakest race else you may only use that as excuse of losing each time.
biggrin.gif that's the spirit.

so far 5 placement matches.

match 1 - use zerg. win. rush (vs terran)
match 2 - use zerg. lose. rush, but mistake in map (cos this game, i was unprepared. looking for VS AI but end up vs human)........... some more assume map wrongly. lost quite some time. end up kena VR
match 3 - use zerg. win. rush (vs terran)
match 4 - use zerg. win. rush (vs terran)
match 5 - use protoss. lose. got rushed (vs zerg). got pwned cos i really donno what i was thinking, go blocking the path with 3 pylons, and have a forge. LOL. damn.

*i use Random all the way.

btw does the system know our gaming preference? I use Random and get Z the most.

IMO the zerg has early game and mineral gathering advantage. do it right and the game looks in your favor.
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post Aug 23 2010, 03:20 PM

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QUOTE(Drian @ Aug 23 2010, 02:57 PM)
Many people say zerg race is suppose to mass and conquer. But how are you going to mass when an equivalent unit cost just as much as humans/protoss and the Zerg tier2 units are just equivalent to human/protoss tier 1 units?
*
look at the replay i posted on 2nd post first page. map control. zerg is the best is that.

as insanely OP as terrans may be, their map control isnt as good as toss/zerg. and mech push (yes that OP mech push) is very slow and in a way, immobile with siege tanks movement.


Added on August 23, 2010, 3:25 pm
QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 23 2010, 03:11 PM)
stack? as in all float together 1 single spot izzit?
zealot still ok.

try kena pylon + gateway block with zealots being pumping out. sad.gif
people go roaches liao lor. sad.gif

Hydralisk was my staple unit for SC, now ah? I don't remember making them, unless i bully AI kau kau and build for fun.

oh and the overlord part, just as what i highlighted earlier.............. why can't they detect cloaked like before!!!

was playing vs donno what AI the other day, banshees cloaked and then only i realize overlord can't see cloaked units. sad.gif


Added on August 23, 2010, 3:13 pm

zerg good units are really really really gas dependant, it's not like 1 siege tank needing 125 gas but can do massive damage.

i normally just spam those units and when run out of gas, just spam them lings or overlords.
*
thats what he meant what. ONE zealot. py/gate then 1 'pixel' worth of path way just to get blocked by the zealot. gg zherk rush.


Added on August 23, 2010, 3:28 pm
QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 23 2010, 03:16 PM)
Rather than complaining about the inept of the Zerg race, I suggest playing it without the mentality of Zerg being the weakest race else you may only use that as excuse of losing each time.
*
regardless of the statistics, current status, facts etc.

it is my weakest race and therefore i weep when i get random'd into zerg. with all things said though, zerg victories give me the most satisfaction, be it "the weakest race" mentality (HAH i beat ur op [insert strat here] with my shit zerg! wwwww) or the fact that zerg victories are the prettiest of all. swarming ur enemy, overwhelming them.... that.

almost EVERY zerg victories from noob bronze leagues (yes i got bronze leagues playing with friends despite my shiny new diamond league lawl) to even pros like TLO etc. see how they ZERG their to-be defeated victims? yeap, no other race provides that sheer satisfaction.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 23 2010, 03:28 PM
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post Aug 23 2010, 03:29 PM

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oh i tot he mean 1 zealot only. hehe. k k. misunderstood.

and i that TLO vs Cola match was indeed classic (actually hor, i didn't realize it was posted in post #2. i is slowpoke)


Added on August 23, 2010, 3:33 pm
QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 23 2010, 03:20 PM)
it is my weakest race and therefore i weep when i get random'd into zerg. with all things said though, zerg victories give me the most satisfaction, be it "the weakest race" mentality (HAH i beat ur op [insert strat here] with my shit zerg! wwwww) or the fact that zerg victories are the prettiest of all. swarming ur enemy, overwhelming them.... that.


if you think about it, it's actually helpful.

people think zerg race is weakest so it'll boost their confidence, over confidence isn't a good thing. smile.gif

you could play psychology on some players too, i usually choose random though but having zerg somehow actually gives me some hope of winning. biggrin.gif

back to the psychology part, playing as zerg makes any other player play defensive automatically. i played random the other day, so i sent a drone to scout. likely the fella saw it. he was bunkering it already waiting to be rushed by lings. i saw what he was up to. so i took the opportunity to make more hatchies, get more minerals and tech up.

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post Aug 23 2010, 03:33 PM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 23 2010, 03:20 PM)
biggrin.gif that's the spirit.

so far 5 placement matches.

match 1 - use zerg. win. rush (vs terran)
match 2 - use zerg. lose. rush, but mistake in map (cos this game, i was unprepared. looking for VS AI but end up vs human)........... some more assume map wrongly. lost quite some time. end up kena VR
match 3 - use zerg. win. rush (vs terran)
match 4 - use zerg. win. rush (vs terran)
match 5 - use protoss. lose. got rushed (vs zerg). got pwned cos i really donno what i was thinking, go blocking the path with 3 pylons, and have a forge. LOL. damn.

*i use Random all the way.

btw does the system know our gaming preference? I use Random and get Z the most.

IMO the zerg has early game and mineral gathering advantage. do it right and the game looks in your favor.
*
if you think about sub 10 mineral advantage. its either terran for their 11 food, or protoss for the 8worker chrono. zerg no advantage until the queen pops out. and no, all workers mine the same. lets not be superstitious ok? lol.

some googling just to make my point concrete:
http://www.gosugamers.net/general/thread.php?id=212972
(ps: moon paste this on first post please smile.gif)
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post Aug 23 2010, 03:36 PM

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1 advantage of zerg is that they can spawn millions of overlords.. no caps.. tongue.gif
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post Aug 23 2010, 03:38 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 23 2010, 03:33 PM)
if you think about sub 10 mineral advantage. its either terran for their 11 food, or protoss for the 8worker chrono. zerg no advantage until the queen pops out. and no, all workers mine the same. lets not be superstitious ok? lol.
ehh. don't you find drones move faster on creep? compared to SCV and probes? hehe i donno, i felt that they move faster.
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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 23 2010, 03:29 PM)
oh i tot he mean 1 zealot only. hehe. k k. misunderstood.

and i that TLO vs Cola match was indeed classic (actually hor, i didn't realize it was posted in post #2. i is slowpoke)


Added on August 23, 2010, 3:33 pm

if you think about it, it's actually helpful.

people think zerg race is weakest so it'll boost their confidence, over confidence isn't a good thing. smile.gif

you could play psychology on some players too, i usually choose random though but having zerg somehow actually gives me some hope of winning. biggrin.gif

back to the psychology part, playing as zerg makes any other player play defensive automatically. i played random the other day, so i sent a drone to scout. likely the fella saw it. he was bunkering it already waiting to be rushed by lings. i saw what he was up to. so i took the opportunity to make more hatchies, get more minerals and tech up.
*
imho, it could be due to the lower league part, where player are more susceptible to zerg early rushes (and no matter how you put it, zergling rush is still the thing that defined sc back in the days and still do in sc2)

in my viewpoint, on USA plats/diamonds, people see zerg only people tend to be MORE AGGRESSIVE due to queen snipes, worker rape, and what not cuz zerg CANNOT barricade/block (toss 1 small narrow choke, force field by sentries etc) and keep crippling ur econ until ur too damn far behind the game and its g-f***ing-g.
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post Aug 23 2010, 03:41 PM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 23 2010, 03:38 PM)
ehh. don't you find drones move faster on creep? compared to SCV and probes? hehe i donno, i felt that they move faster.


Added on August 23, 2010, 3:38 pm

ehh. don't you find drones move faster on creep? compared to SCV and probes? hehe i donno, i felt that they move faster.
*
i dont think drones have speed bonus on creep..
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post Aug 23 2010, 03:42 PM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 23 2010, 03:38 PM)
ehh. don't you find drones move faster on creep? compared to SCV and probes? hehe i donno, i felt that they move faster.


Added on August 23, 2010, 3:38 pm

ehh. don't you find drones move faster on creep? compared to SCV and probes? hehe i donno, i felt that they move faster.
*
yes they are faster on creep, however, do you notice that ALL workers have a "ramp up acceleration time"?

to put it bluntly, if you stop a worker, and then go again, they sorta take time to "speed up". (void rays also uses the same mechanic)
see, once drone stops to mine, same shit applies, and the distance between a mineral node to the hatchery, is not far enough for the creep to make a difference. thus its equal to all races.

still, to say they have no advantage is a bad statement. zerg is the fastest race to be able to saturate a mineral line/gas compared to the other 2 races, at the risk of your army.
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post Aug 23 2010, 03:50 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 23 2010, 03:42 PM)
yes they are faster on creep, however, do you notice that ALL workers have a "ramp up acceleration time"?

to put it bluntly, if you stop a worker, and then go again, they sorta take time to "speed up". (void rays also uses the same mechanic)
see, once drone stops to mine, same shit applies, and the distance between a mineral node to the hatchery, is not far enough for the creep to make a difference. thus its equal to all races.

still, to say they have no advantage is a bad statement. zerg is the fastest race to be able to saturate a mineral line/gas compared to the other 2 races, at the risk of your army.
*
hmm.. i read on the starcraft 2 wiki unit stat, it says no creep speed increase multiplier for drone.

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Drone

This post has been edited by hazairi: Aug 23 2010, 03:51 PM
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post Aug 23 2010, 03:53 PM

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oh hrm. interesting. thanks for pointing those out. biggrin.gif lemme continue feel good to think it's faster. LOL. bite the dust you SCV and probes!
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post Aug 23 2010, 04:07 PM

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Played with Duskbin.Marine yesterday at Vista @ Curve... It was a base swapping scene =_="... Nearly win him T______T last 2 base!! Damnit!

He wiped my base first... he still got 1 floating Barrack and another Floating Factory... Damnit LOL!!! Why not zerg Overlord also count as building xD...

Luckily Marine haven't learn the Reaper tactic... If not I'm totally screwed... But he does have a few reapers... But not as much as that dude in the IEM tourney tho...
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post Aug 23 2010, 04:08 PM

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QUOTE(Drian @ Aug 23 2010, 03:07 PM)
yah and  the reaper will just jump out from the cliff unharm. Without the creep it's slower for lings.
And when you're slower, they'll just use the "hit and run" technique. A group of 3 reaper can kill a group of 6 lings without getting hit. At that early game it's a big hit to your army.


Added on August 23, 2010, 3:10 pm

You're limited by the amount of minerals and especially gas. So even if you got 20-30 larvae on standby, what's the point if you can't convert all of them to army units. You will just have as many units as the terran/protoss.
*
more base also mean more income
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post Aug 23 2010, 04:28 PM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 23 2010, 03:50 PM)
hmm.. i read on the starcraft 2 wiki unit stat, it says no creep speed increase multiplier for drone.

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Drone
*
haha there you go then. even worse tongue.gif


Added on August 23, 2010, 5:44 pmsince we have a lot of sob stories about zerg, lets lighten the mood a little:

Demuslim vs dimaga on IEM:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 23 2010, 05:44 PM
noob4life
post Aug 23 2010, 05:50 PM

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QUOTE(Drian @ Aug 23 2010, 02:57 PM)
Many people say zerg race is suppose to mass and conquer. But how are you going to mass when an equivalent unit cost just as much as humans/protoss and the Zerg tier2 units are just equivalent to human/protoss tier 1 units?
*
Have u tried fighting Very Hard A.I. for zerg ? I was protoss and so far i've never beaten Very Hard zerg if i dont rush them.... i've defeated Terran and protoss though.
The early roach rush is deadly... and when they have burrow, they burrow-micro like hell ( since its AI anyway, but if we can practise to do it, it owns most early game ground units. )
And then the endless stream of roaches starts. By that time my Warpgate research wasnt done yet... ( SO CLOSE, YET SO FAR ! )
And they just... keep coming....

I can stop their roach rush, but only because they pulled back for some reason. By the time i recovered, it was mid game.

At mid game the Zerg ai starts to mix units... lots of roaches, a bit of speedlings and some hydras for anti air... and that one Overseer. And the endless stream starts again... I believe u call this overwhelming, not mass and conquer.
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post Aug 23 2010, 06:13 PM

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QUOTE(noob4life @ Aug 23 2010, 05:50 PM)
Have u tried fighting Very Hard A.I. for zerg ? I was protoss and so far i've never beaten Very Hard zerg if i dont rush them.... i've defeated Terran and protoss though.
The early roach rush is deadly... and when they have burrow, they burrow-micro like hell ( since its AI anyway, but if we can practise to do it, it owns most early game ground units. )
And then the endless stream of roaches starts. By that time my Warpgate research wasnt done yet... ( SO CLOSE, YET SO FAR ! )
And they just... keep coming....

I can stop their roach rush, but only because they pulled back for some reason. By the time i recovered, it was mid game.

At mid game the Zerg ai starts to mix units... lots of roaches, a bit of speedlings and some hydras for anti air... and that one Overseer.  And the endless stream starts again...  I believe u call this overwhelming, not mass and conquer.
*
hmm.. really sounds like a nightmare..
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post Aug 23 2010, 06:16 PM

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vs AI hor, it's a bit annoying when paired with passive partners.

the higher difficulty AI would gang up and whack kau kau one player first. my buddy always bunker up (play Terran only) and tech to BC. so if AI go for him, still got me come to support.

i got AI come ah, then ehhh most of the time bye bye already but since i play zerg, i usually harass AI kau kau but then it could still be problematic since the harder AI know how to get help from the other AI.
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post Aug 23 2010, 06:42 PM

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Found a way to defeat early mass roach rush of AI lol..

1 immortal, a few zealots and maybe 2 stalkers.

But the problem is, teching to immortal means mostly ground army. The AI isnt smart enough to straight tech to mutas.... they will take some time and get hydras first. If real players, i think if they straight muta can own the protoss player. =.="
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post Aug 23 2010, 06:48 PM

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well, if you guys really do like playing against AI...they will mass push ground forces only

and if you knock on their base with a few units, they'll pull back most likely to defend

with that, you can buy some time to probably tech up or recover your losses

if you guys like to engage that early push, then most likely you'll need to have some static defense up and with a reasonable force to deal with that (And also, a wall in)

if you guys would like to play without any cheese...well, constant harassing while it is moving near your base is the next best thing i suppose

cheesing is still the best way to win the AI...no matter which difficulty it is at...=)
TSMoonflown
post Aug 23 2010, 07:01 PM

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However, I only recommend you guys to use AI to practice BO.

A sudden switch to muta won't be as easy as you think. Muta + spire requires a lot of time to build and the zerg have to reserve huge amount of gas. If protoss decides to push while you're transitioning then it could be fatal.
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post Aug 23 2010, 07:04 PM

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i play VS AI to practice defending, which in the end - yes, BO.

while tactically they're not as cunning as humans, they're still damn efficient at the start and give many human players a hard time.
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post Aug 23 2010, 08:37 PM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 23 2010, 07:01 PM)
However, I only recommend you guys to use AI to practice BO.

A sudden switch to muta won't be as easy as you think. Muta + spire requires a lot of time to build and the zerg have to reserve huge amount of gas. If protoss decides to push while you're transitioning then it could be fatal.
*
Right, will take note of this. smile.gif
Best way is to scout if hes transitioning... then attack if neccesary.

QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 23 2010, 07:04 PM)
i play VS AI to practice defending, which in the end - yes, BO.

while tactically they're not as cunning as humans, they're still damn efficient at the start and give many human players a hard time.
*
I play with AI not to rush them, but to see how well i can micro against MM Siege tank and Roach + hydra + zergling push. biggrin.gif
Especially burrowing roaches... AI damn efficient at doing that.
Sky.Live
post Aug 24 2010, 09:51 AM

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Dont get too negative about zerg, it's one of the steepest learning curve race compared to others ( well it's just plain different compared to other RTS u played).

I think soon or later you will nail it, if terran is imba it will get balanced soon or later.
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post Aug 24 2010, 09:52 AM

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QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Aug 24 2010, 09:51 AM)
Dont get too negative about zerg, it's one of the steepest learning curve race compared to others ( well it's just plain different compared to other RTS u played).

I think soon or later you will nail it, if terran is imba it will get balanced soon or later.
*
its ok, zherk quin is moe. i will love zherk cuz of that.
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post Aug 24 2010, 10:02 AM

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Zerg is still my best race of all.. I am so hopeless when I use terran... Protoss once transition into higher tier I am lost too
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post Aug 24 2010, 03:36 PM

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Great news everyone! We do not have to be afraid of Terran Mech anymore!

Introducing, the magic box!


This post has been edited by Sichiri: Aug 24 2010, 03:36 PM
Quazacolt
post Aug 24 2010, 03:41 PM

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QUOTE(Sichiri @ Aug 24 2010, 03:36 PM)
Great news everyone! We do not have to be afraid of Terran Mech anymore!

Introducing, the magic box!

*
putting on first page, and no, terran mech would still be devastating against any zerg
evofantasy
post Aug 24 2010, 03:45 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 24 2010, 03:41 PM)
putting on first page, and no, terran mech would still be devastating against any zerg
*
this only work if the terran does not have any support for thors or poor thor placement (tarson in the IEM semis vs idra)...
koreans have long discovered this and korean terrans usually support their thors with tonnes of marine (marine/thor compo)...
so u gotta go the mutaling strategy or like wut dimaga does, baneling/zergling -> infestors -> ultras and using all 3 of em...

the recent reaper opening wont even give u time to tech to mutas usually lol...
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post Aug 24 2010, 03:49 PM

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edited

This post has been edited by Sichiri: Aug 24 2010, 03:50 PM
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post Aug 24 2010, 03:51 PM

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QUOTE(Sichiri @ Aug 24 2010, 03:36 PM)
Great news everyone! We do not have to be afraid of Terran Mech anymore!

Introducing, the magic box!

*
wow..
good tips there..

thor will run like rat after this..
rockets
post Aug 24 2010, 03:57 PM

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i crush terran mech with ling/bling mutas after discovering the magic box. the ones that turtle in 2 bases and just mass mech usually don't stand a chance now. the part where the zerg is still weak against terran is the early mid-ish game if they push hard, but if you survive that with your econ intact and transition to mutas you're in good shape. another problem i'm seeing alot more lately is the pure reaper build, everyone trying the gay strat morrow used at IEM and it's really hard to deal with if they have good micro cause they can even kill your roaches which is supposed to counter reapers.
sixseven
post Aug 24 2010, 04:02 PM

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erm... anyone know if spine crawler can fit in an overlord or nydus?
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post Aug 24 2010, 04:04 PM

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lol I didn't say the video is gonna resolve ALL your imbalance concerns.

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post Aug 24 2010, 04:10 PM

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QUOTE(sixseven @ Aug 24 2010, 04:02 PM)
erm... anyone know if spine crawler can fit in an overlord or nydus?
*
hahhaa, good question..
never tried that before..
evofantasy
post Aug 24 2010, 04:11 PM

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QUOTE(rockets @ Aug 24 2010, 03:57 PM)
i crush terran mech with ling/bling mutas after discovering the magic box. the ones that turtle in 2 bases and just mass mech usually don't stand a chance now. the part where the zerg is still weak against terran is the early mid-ish game if they push hard, but if you survive that with your econ intact and transition to mutas you're in good shape. another problem i'm seeing alot more lately is the pure reaper build, everyone trying the gay strat morrow used at IEM and it's really hard to deal with if they have good micro cause they can even kill your roaches which is supposed to counter reapers.
*
u need roach speed/ good creep spread
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post Aug 24 2010, 04:19 PM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 24 2010, 04:11 PM)
u need roach speed/ good creep spread
*
yea, but you need lair and the research takes quite a while. reapers comes really really early and once they have like 6 it starts to really hurt. and there's no chance for me to hold my expo if they go reapers.
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post Aug 24 2010, 04:22 PM

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1 question, can roaches tat are moving while burrowing pass walls of pylons/SD?
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post Aug 24 2010, 04:22 PM

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QUOTE(sixseven @ Aug 24 2010, 04:02 PM)
erm... anyone know if spine crawler can fit in an overlord or nydus?
*
cannot. but if ur like me and want tentacle rape, hatchery rush. lol
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post Aug 24 2010, 04:33 PM

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yeah that's what my partner in 2 v 2 AI match did yesterday. i ling rush he hentai hatchery tentacle rush. tongue.gif
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post Aug 24 2010, 04:39 PM

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Shaddap, I am still butthurt when i got 6-pool tentacle rushed by a Zerg player 2 days ago. sad.gif
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post Aug 24 2010, 04:44 PM

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tentacle rush vs ling rush, thoughts anyone?

tentacle can't chase tongue.gif needs creep. what else? doesn't take up overlord supply, no? i not familiar, cos i rarely build those crawlers.
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QUOTE(aLertz @ Aug 24 2010, 04:22 PM)
1 question, can roaches tat are moving while burrowing pass walls of pylons/SD?
*
used to be able to, patch says no now.
Sky.Live
post Aug 24 2010, 05:12 PM

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That means roach used to be:
1 food
longer range?
and able to sneak to ppl's command center?
haha
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post Aug 24 2010, 05:15 PM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 24 2010, 04:33 PM)
yeah that's what my partner in 2 v 2 AI match did yesterday. i ling rush he hentai hatchery tentacle rush. tongue.gif
*
hatchery tentacle rush means build hatchery at enemy base?
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post Aug 24 2010, 05:19 PM

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yeah, according to what i saw.......... YES. i got the replay for it. biggrin.gif the fella rush the drone to build hatchery there and have spine crawlers go kacau enemy.
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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 24 2010, 05:19 PM)
yeah, according to what i saw.......... YES. i got the replay for it. biggrin.gif the fella rush the drone to build hatchery there and have spine crawlers go kacau enemy.
*
done that a ton during beta. fun times. and massed queens too. undying spines.
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post Aug 24 2010, 05:29 PM

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but insane ai will interrupt wor.. even 6 pool rush insane ai oso failed..

me n my fren 6 pool rush 1 insane ai oso failed >.<
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post Aug 24 2010, 05:46 PM

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QUOTE(sixseven @ Aug 24 2010, 05:29 PM)
but insane ai will interrupt wor.. even 6 pool rush insane ai oso failed..

me n my fren 6 pool rush 1 insane ai oso failed >.<
*
1 kite work while the order kill building? no? dont work? keep producing ling too, cant let it stop at 6
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post Aug 24 2010, 06:03 PM

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anyone tried sunken colony rush b4?
TSMoonflown
post Aug 24 2010, 06:56 PM

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No more sunken colonies, only spine crawlers =)

These are also considered cheese and can only be done in a base with large area so enemy won't notice you. I've tried queen+spine rush before, not bad.
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post Aug 24 2010, 08:19 PM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 24 2010, 06:56 PM)
No more sunken colonies, only spine crawlers =)

These are also considered cheese and can only be done in a base with large area so enemy won't notice you. I've tried queen+spine rush before, not bad.
*
if u are bold, u can sneak a drone into his mineral line and morph into a spine crawler! LOL
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post Aug 24 2010, 08:50 PM

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Doesn't that need creep? blink.gif
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post Aug 24 2010, 09:38 PM

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QUOTE(Currylaksa @ Aug 24 2010, 08:50 PM)
Doesn't that need creep? blink.gif
*
hatchery doesnt.
evofantasy
post Aug 24 2010, 10:02 PM

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QUOTE(Currylaksa @ Aug 24 2010, 08:50 PM)
Doesn't that need creep? blink.gif
*
well use his creep =p
MYNAMEISJASON
post Aug 24 2010, 10:38 PM

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teh evo chamber tactic
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post Aug 24 2010, 11:00 PM

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QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Aug 24 2010, 10:38 PM)

teh evo chamber tactic
*
adding this to main page, really funny stuff you got there lloolol
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post Aug 24 2010, 11:08 PM

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wow... really cool tactic... but he's a pro anyway
Chobits
post Aug 25 2010, 01:10 AM

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zerg is bad...so hard to play...siege tanky took out all my hydras..
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post Aug 25 2010, 01:30 AM

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QUOTE(Chobits @ Aug 25 2010, 01:10 AM)
zerg is bad...so hard to play...siege tanky took out all my hydras..
*
i feel u man..
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post Aug 25 2010, 01:46 AM

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Now that proxy evolution chamber gave me a thought about proxy spine crawlers lolol
evofantasy
post Aug 25 2010, 03:03 AM

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QUOTE(LoNeLy-Zhai @ Aug 25 2010, 01:46 AM)
Now that proxy evolution chamber gave me a thought about proxy spine crawlers lolol
*
pretty common and successful; during beta =p
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post Aug 25 2010, 03:19 AM

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QUOTE(Chobits @ Aug 25 2010, 01:10 AM)
zerg is bad...so hard to play...siege tanky took out all my hydras..
*
yeah, sumtimes i feel zerg is very fragile..
But i still prefer to use zerg.. sad.gif
ReWeR
post Aug 25 2010, 12:46 PM

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IMHO, to play Zerg is to mean you need to gain advantage during early game, advantage here could mean cripple your enemy, or you have much more resources and/or units that your opponent.

Zerg - strong in early game, moderate in mid game, and weak in late game.

Terran - weak in early game, strong in mid game, and moderate in late game

Protoss - weak in early game, moderate in mid game, strong in late game

So you see, if you don't gain advantage in early game ... you're pretty much screwed later, because Zerg units are just slightly cheaper than other race, overall the price is the same. To outnumber your opponent also actually mean you are out-resource of them.

In my opinion, Zerg have 2 units that conquer in the early game -> zergling and queen.

Queen not only a good early defense for Zerg, but her spell - spawn larvae is almost a must for all Zerg, with 1 hatchery and 1 queen, you basically doesn't need to build extra units producing building.

Zergling in terms of resources, is the best tier 1 units, in equal resources ... it can basically wipe out other races tier 1 units ... provided if it's in open spaces. Furthermore other races unable to produce as much tier 1 units of Zerg in short time, thanks to the Zerg's Queen's spell.

So whenever I play Zerg, I will try to be aggressive in early game, because I always think if I don't gain advantage in early game, most probably I will be a dead meat entering mid game onwards.
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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 25 2010, 12:46 PM)
IMHO, to play Zerg is to mean you need to gain advantage during early game, advantage here could mean cripple your enemy, or you have much more resources and/or units that your opponent.

Zerg - strong in early game, moderate in mid game, and weak in late game.

Terran - weak in early game, strong in mid game, and moderate in late game

Protoss - weak in early game, moderate in mid game, strong in late game

So you see, if you don't gain advantage in early game ... you're pretty much screwed later, because Zerg units are just slightly cheaper than other race, overall the price is the same. To outnumber your opponent also actually mean you are out-resource of them.

In my opinion, Zerg have 2 units that conquer in the early game -> zergling and queen.

Queen not only a good early defense for Zerg, but her spell - spawn larvae is almost a must for all Zerg, with 1 hatchery and 1 queen, you basically doesn't need to build extra units producing building.

Zergling in terms of resources, is the best tier 1 units, in equal resources ... it can basically wipe out other races tier 1 units ... provided if it's in open spaces. Furthermore other races unable to produce as much tier 1 units of Zerg in short time, thanks to the Zerg's Queen's spell.

So whenever I play Zerg, I will try to be aggressive in early game, because I always think if I don't gain advantage in early game, most probably I will be a dead meat entering mid game onwards.
*
for me,

zerg is weak early, strong mid, moderate late or strong late if u have massive econ
terran is strong early, strong mid, moderate late
toss is strong early, moderate mid, strong late


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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 25 2010, 12:46 PM)
IMHO, to play Zerg is to mean you need to gain advantage during early game, advantage here could mean cripple your enemy, or you have much more resources and/or units that your opponent.

Zerg - strong in early game, moderate in mid game, and weak in late game.

Terran - weak in early game, strong in mid game, and moderate in late game

Protoss - weak in early game, moderate in mid game, strong in late game

So you see, if you don't gain advantage in early game ... you're pretty much screwed later, because Zerg units are just slightly cheaper than other race, overall the price is the same. To outnumber your opponent also actually mean you are out-resource of them.

In my opinion, Zerg have 2 units that conquer in the early game -> zergling and queen.

Queen not only a good early defense for Zerg, but her spell - spawn larvae is almost a must for all Zerg, with 1 hatchery and 1 queen, you basically doesn't need to build extra units producing building.

Zergling in terms of resources, is the best tier 1 units, in equal resources ... it can basically wipe out other races tier 1 units ... provided if it's in open spaces. Furthermore other races unable to produce as much tier 1 units of Zerg in short time, thanks to the Zerg's Queen's spell.

So whenever I play Zerg, I will try to be aggressive in early game, because I always think if I don't gain advantage in early game, most probably I will be a dead meat entering mid game onwards.
*
exactly. I think i have to agree mostly on this.. wink.gif
Sky.Live
post Aug 25 2010, 02:19 PM

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zerg is not the best early game anymore, will walling being so popular nowadays, i felt that zerg has lost the early advantage.

When people wall off, zerg have to FE, when we FE we are sit into more passive position and have to def. I watch the cast from Husky stated that zerg have to absorb all the harassment and damage in early and try to build up huge macro advantage later on

Mid and Eng game zerg is equally as strong as it is possible to rebuild entire army after a big army collapsed in a big battle, that's what which made zerg scary (provided you are $$ rich).
TSMoonflown
post Aug 25 2010, 02:25 PM

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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 25 2010, 12:46 PM)
IMHO, to play Zerg is to mean you need to gain advantage during early game, advantage here could mean cripple your enemy, or you have much more resources and/or units that your opponent.

Zerg - strong in early game, moderate in mid game, and weak in late game.

Terran - weak in early game, strong in mid game, and moderate in late game

Protoss - weak in early game, moderate in mid game, strong in late game

So you see, if you don't gain advantage in early game ... you're pretty much screwed later, because Zerg units are just slightly cheaper than other race, overall the price is the same. To outnumber your opponent also actually mean you are out-resource of them.

In my opinion, Zerg have 2 units that conquer in the early game -> zergling and queen.

Queen not only a good early defense for Zerg, but her spell - spawn larvae is almost a must for all Zerg, with 1 hatchery and 1 queen, you basically doesn't need to build extra units producing building.

Zergling in terms of resources, is the best tier 1 units, in equal resources ... it can basically wipe out other races tier 1 units ... provided if it's in open spaces. Furthermore other races unable to produce as much tier 1 units of Zerg in short time, thanks to the Zerg's Queen's spell.

So whenever I play Zerg, I will try to be aggressive in early game, because I always think if I don't gain advantage in early game, most probably I will be a dead meat entering mid game onwards.
*
Strongly disagree, zerg has almost the weakest early game because of the fragility of their base. And you can't really generalize mid and late game because RTS is not something like DotA. Mid and late game largely dependent on map control, pressure, harassment, and critical amount of certain unit + a lot other variables
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post Aug 25 2010, 03:09 PM

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Zerg strong on early game? OH COME ON!!!!
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post Aug 25 2010, 03:45 PM

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on the early game,
zerg can easily mass roaches+zergling or do the banel bust(if got weak wall).

while terran and protoss they have to spend money on building a few racks, factory or a few gateways.

And zerg can easily defend terran's early reaper* harass / scout with queen+sunken

early helions can easily use speedlings on creep.
And early zealot rush? It's nothing. Mass speedlings can easily pawn stalkers.

Let's not take it as individual race.

Let's take it as ZvP and ZvT early game.



*changed marauder to reaper

This post has been edited by hazairi: Aug 25 2010, 03:48 PM
Quazacolt
post Aug 25 2010, 03:57 PM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 25 2010, 03:45 PM)
on the early game,
zerg can easily mass roaches+zergling or do the banel bust(if got weak wall).

while terran and protoss they have to spend money on building a few racks, factory or a few gateways.

And zerg can easily defend terran's early reaper* harass / scout with queen+sunken

early helions can easily use speedlings on creep.
And early zealot rush? It's nothing. Mass speedlings can easily pawn stalkers.

Let's not take it as individual race.

Let's take it as ZvP and ZvT early game.
*changed marauder to reaper
*
- lol 2 food. lol bane gas

- "easily" defend reaper. haha. lets outcry morrow @ IEM agen

- helions, speedling, easy? really?

- zealot rush nothing, really?

this one confirm pro diamond comments ady.
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post Aug 25 2010, 03:59 PM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 25 2010, 03:45 PM)
on the early game,
zerg can easily mass roaches+zergling or do the banel bust(if got weak wall).

while terran and protoss they have to spend money on building a few racks, factory or a few gateways.

And zerg can easily defend terran's early reaper* harass / scout with queen+sunken

early helions can easily use speedlings on creep.
And early zealot rush? It's nothing. Mass speedlings can easily pawn stalkers.

Let's not take it as individual race.

Let's take it as ZvP and ZvT early game.
*changed marauder to reaper
*
lol'ed at this comment....
Soul-X
post Aug 25 2010, 04:00 PM

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sigh... try being a zerg user urself and see if you can 'easily' defend reaper or helions 'easily'...
Sichiri
post Aug 25 2010, 04:01 PM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 25 2010, 03:45 PM)
on the early game,
zerg can easily mass roaches+zergling or do the banel bust(if got weak wall).

while terran and protoss they have to spend money on building a few racks, factory or a few gateways.

And zerg can easily defend terran's early reaper* harass / scout with queen+sunken

early helions can easily use speedlings on creep.
And early zealot rush? It's nothing. Mass speedlings can easily pawn stalkers.

Let's not take it as individual race.

Let's take it as ZvP and ZvT early game.
*changed marauder to reaper
*
You...didn't watch any of the IEM replays did you?


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post Aug 25 2010, 04:04 PM

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demmm..
dah agak dah..
confirm my comments will get tiowed from diamonds and plats zerg players.. blush.gif
Soul-X
post Aug 25 2010, 04:05 PM

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NO NEED to watch IEM replays... Just play with a Terran in Diamond league using Zerg race... And you can 'feel' it yourself hahaha
Sichiri
post Aug 25 2010, 04:07 PM

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QUOTE(Soul-X @ Aug 25 2010, 04:05 PM)
NO NEED to watch IEM replays... Just play with a Terran in Diamond league using Zerg race... And you can 'feel' it yourself hahaha
*
I silver league saja blush.gif
evofantasy
post Aug 25 2010, 04:08 PM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 25 2010, 04:04 PM)
demmm..
dah agak dah..
confirm my comments will get tiowed from diamonds and plats zerg players..  blush.gif
*
2 gate opening by toss would deal so much pressure to zerg unless its cross positioned
ReWeR
post Aug 25 2010, 04:12 PM

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QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Aug 25 2010, 02:19 PM)
zerg is not the best early game anymore, will walling being so popular nowadays, i felt that zerg has lost the early advantage.

When people wall off, zerg have to FE, when we FE we are sit into more passive position and have to def. I watch the cast from Husky stated that zerg have to absorb all the harassment and damage in early and try to build up huge macro advantage later on

Mid and Eng game zerg is equally as strong as it is possible to rebuild entire army after a big army collapsed in a big battle, that's what which made zerg scary (provided you are $$ rich).
*
QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 25 2010, 02:25 PM)
Strongly disagree, zerg has almost the weakest early game because of the fragility of their base. And you can't really generalize mid and late game because RTS is not something like DotA. Mid and late game largely dependent on map control, pressure, harassment, and critical amount of certain unit + a lot other variables
*
QUOTE(Soul-X @ Aug 25 2010, 03:09 PM)
Zerg strong on early game? OH COME ON!!!!
*
I was doing a comparison of units who are in the same tier and same amount of resources. without taking consider of player skill and tactics.

In equal tier and resources, zerglings with speed upgrade are actually very scary.

20 zerglings + 1 roach, which cost 575min 25gas

8 marines + 1 marauder, which cost 600min 25gas

4 zealots + 1 stalker, which cost 525min 50gas

if you just put them together and fight (assume in an open space), who will win? from my experience, Zerg most of the time will win. terran 2nd because of the range advantage.

speedling is just too scary and dominating in early game.

but real life players aren't stupid either, they will wall in and be defensive to avoid early game with Zerg.

So a smart Zerg player actually have to think of ways to utilize the early advantage of Zerg to cripple the opponent. They try to break the opponent defense (probably that's why baneling was there?), or try to expand fast when opponent become turtled ...

But I have to admit that baneling is hard to use for me ... every time I saw they only did a pity 20 damage and there's goes my 50min 25gas ... I felt like waste a lot ...
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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 25 2010, 04:12 PM)
I was doing a comparison of units who are in the same tier and same amount of resources. without taking consider of player skill and tactics.

In equal tier and resources, zerglings with speed upgrade are actually very scary.

20 zerglings + 1 roach, which cost 575min 25gas

8 marines + 1 marauder, which cost 600min 25gas

4 zealots + 1 stalker, which cost 525min 50gas

if you just put them together and fight (assume in an open space), who will win? from my experience, Zerg most of the time will win. terran 2nd because of the range advantage.

speedling is just too scary and dominating in early game.

but real life players aren't stupid either, they will wall in and be defensive to avoid early game with Zerg.

So a smart Zerg player actually have to think of ways to utilize the early advantage of Zerg to cripple the opponent. They try to break the opponent defense (probably that's why baneling was there?), or try to expand fast when opponent become turtled ...

But I have to admit that baneling is hard to use for me ... every time I saw they only did a pity 20 damage and there's goes my 50min 25gas ... I felt like waste a lot ...
*
thanks bro! i owe u one.. smile.gif
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post Aug 25 2010, 04:16 PM

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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 25 2010, 04:12 PM)
I was doing a comparison of units who are in the same tier and same amount of resources. without taking consider of player skill and tactics.

In equal tier and resources, zerglings with speed upgrade are actually very scary.

20 zerglings + 1 roach, which cost 575min 25gas

8 marines + 1 marauder, which cost 600min 25gas

4 zealots + 1 stalker, which cost 525min 50gas

if you just put them together and fight (assume in an open space), who will win? from my experience, Zerg most of the time will win. terran 2nd because of the range advantage.

speedling is just too scary and dominating in early game.

but real life players aren't stupid either, they will wall in and be defensive to avoid early game with Zerg.

So a smart Zerg player actually have to think of ways to utilize the early advantage of Zerg to cripple the opponent. They try to break the opponent defense (probably that's why baneling was there?), or try to expand fast when opponent become turtled ...

But I have to admit that baneling is hard to use for me ... every time I saw they only did a pity 20 damage and there's goes my 50min 25gas ... I felt like waste a lot ...
*
It is incredibly WRONG to make comparisons like that. Have you ever thought about Zerg who has to spend most, if not all their larva in order to come up with the amount of units while terran and protoss can still consistently pumping scv probes ? Never ever ever make such comparison because they will not be accurate.

This post has been edited by Ash: Aug 25 2010, 04:19 PM
Soul-X
post Aug 25 2010, 04:21 PM

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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 25 2010, 04:12 PM)
20 zerglings + 1 roach, which cost 575min 25gas

8 marines + 1 marauder, which cost 600min 25gas

4 zealots + 1 stalker, which cost 525min 50gas
*
Math fail...

8 marines + 1 marauder = 500minerals 50 gas...

=====================================

And if you count like that... Why not count this as well?

10 Reapers = 500 Minerals 500Gas

10 Roaches = 750 Minerals 250Gas
20 Zerglings + Speed Upgrade = 500 + 100 Minerals 100 Gas = 600 Minerals 100Gas
1 Queen = 150 Minerals
10 Drones = 500 Minerals

Add up together...

2000 Minerals 350Gas... Lose to 500 Minerals 500 Gas... Why? Well you do the math..

I think I don't wanna make a big fuss here anymore since you all are silver/gold players =________= plus some of you are not zerg players...

When you're a Diamond player Zerg vs a Diamond player Terran... Or even watched IEM replays before.. Then you get what I mean

ReWeR
post Aug 25 2010, 04:22 PM

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QUOTE(Ash @ Aug 25 2010, 04:16 PM)
It is incredibly WRONG to make comparisons like that. Have you ever thought about Zerg who has to spend most if not all their larva in other to come up with the amount of units while terran and protoss can still consistently pumping scv probes ? Never ever ever make such comparison because they will not be accurate.
*
In my earlier post I already mention it is QUEEN + ZERGLING that dominate the early game. Queen can cast spawn larvae to the hatchery which add up another 4 larvaes to the hatchery.

From my experience, Zerg can come out large forces in early game faster than other 2 races in early game.

But that's only apply for early games ... in late games ... terran and toss already have tons of stargate or starpot or what so ever unit producing building, which they don't have difficulty to come out mass units in a short period.
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post Aug 25 2010, 04:23 PM

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Zergling doesn't dominate early game... Reapers rape them like no tomorrow...
ReWeR
post Aug 25 2010, 04:36 PM

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QUOTE(Soul-X @ Aug 25 2010, 04:23 PM)
Zergling doesn't dominate early game... Reapers rape them like no tomorrow...
*
reapers are only useful if you plan to sneak and utilize the cliff to gain advantage and use hit n run tactic.

10 reapers vs 20 speedlings in an open space is sure bye bye to the reapers because of their low hp.

I think it's dangerous if terran only plan to produce reapers to counter zerglings ... hellion probably is a better options.

but still i did wipe out my enemy who use hellion + marine combo with swarm of speedlings before. because hellion need to get from factory, by the time he produce 5 hellions, I already have 50 speedlings waiting outside of his base.

btw, I am indeed a Zerg player, and I often lose as well. I'm not saying Zerg are strong, it just to me that Zerg always have the advantage on early game, and pretty much bye bye if the Zerg player can't utilize that.

Normally Zerg player who can win in late game is because he/she out-resource of his/her opponent or probably out-skill as well. If equal resources wise, I don't think Zerg late units are that good ...
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post Aug 25 2010, 04:48 PM

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The debate is still on-going!

ZvP and ZvT

Who have the best advantage in early game?
Let's here it guys..
evofantasy
post Aug 25 2010, 04:49 PM

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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 25 2010, 04:36 PM)
reapers are only useful if you plan to sneak and utilize the cliff to gain advantage and use hit n run tactic.

10 reapers vs 20 speedlings in an open space is sure bye bye to the reapers because of their low hp.

I think it's dangerous if terran only plan to produce reapers to counter zerglings ... hellion probably is a better options.

but still i did wipe out my enemy who use hellion + marine combo with swarm of speedlings before. because hellion need to get from factory, by the time he produce 5 hellions, I already have 50 speedlings waiting outside of his base.

btw, I am indeed a Zerg player, and I often lose as well. I'm not saying Zerg are strong, it just to me that Zerg always have the advantage on early game, and pretty much bye bye if the Zerg player can't utilize that.

Normally Zerg player who can win in late game is because he/she out-resource of his/her opponent or probably out-skill as well. If equal resources wise, I don't think Zerg late units are that good ...
*
seriously no offense, go watch IEM and see how reapers are used...
everything u have been saying is just plain wrong doh.gif
goldfries
post Aug 25 2010, 04:52 PM

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hellions, marines and reapers. heh, all of them pwn speedlings to bits.

speedlings often are pretty dumb (problematic melee units), not only they run in a single file quite often, they play musical chair when they can't reach their target.
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QUOTE(Soul-X @ Aug 25 2010, 04:21 PM)
Math fail...

8 marines + 1 marauder = 500minerals 50 gas...

=====================================

And if you count like that... Why not count this as well?

10 Reapers = 500 Minerals 500Gas

10 Roaches = 750 Minerals 250Gas
20 Zerglings + Speed Upgrade = 500 + 100 Minerals 100 Gas = 600 Minerals 100Gas
1 Queen = 150 Minerals
10 Drones = 500 Minerals

Add up together...

2000 Minerals 350Gas... Lose to 500 Minerals 500 Gas... Why? Well you do the math..

I think I don't wanna make a big fuss here anymore since you all are silver/gold players =________= plus some of you are not zerg players...

When you're a Diamond player Zerg vs a Diamond player Terran... Or even watched IEM replays before.. Then you get what I mean
*
fuyoh lansi ady LOLOLOLOL
raylee914
post Aug 25 2010, 04:54 PM

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10 reapers own 20 zergling with no problem....
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post Aug 25 2010, 04:55 PM

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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Aug 25 2010, 04:54 PM)
10 reapers own 20 zergling with no problem....
*
10 reapers = 500 mins + 500 oil
20 zerglings = 500 mins.

That's a bad comparison.. tongue.gif
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post Aug 25 2010, 04:57 PM

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you forgot about nitro boost, and open space, if off-creep speedlings cannot catch up, and its extremely tough to corner reapers since they can jump off and over cliffs.
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post Aug 25 2010, 04:57 PM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 25 2010, 04:49 PM)
seriously no offense, go watch IEM and see how reapers are used...
everything u have been saying is just plain wrong  doh.gif
*
That's because he's a good skill player and reaper is imba. Reaper are scary once they sneak into your mineral line ... coz they can tore down crawler very fast, if they target your drone and hatchery ... then you are gone as well.
.
.
.

However, I'm talking about generally Zerg in early game. If my opponent go reaper, means he have to sacrifice his marine and marauder, which make me have certain advantage as well.
raylee914
post Aug 25 2010, 04:58 PM

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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 25 2010, 04:36 PM)
reapers are only useful if you plan to sneak and utilize the cliff to gain advantage and use hit n run tactic.

10 reapers vs 20 speedlings in an open space is sure bye bye to the reapers because of their low hp.

lol, i am responding to the statement above..not comparing la..0.0

Sichiri
post Aug 25 2010, 05:00 PM

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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 25 2010, 04:57 PM)
That's because he's a good skill player and reaper is imba. Reaper are scary once they sneak into your mineral line ... coz they can tore down crawler very fast, if they target your drone and hatchery ... then you are gone as well.
.
.
.

However, I'm talking about generally Zerg in early game. If my opponent go reaper, means he have to sacrifice his marine and marauder, which make me have certain advantage as well.
*
you're contradicting yourself here.
reapers = imba early game
zerg = strong early game

what?
raylee914
post Aug 25 2010, 05:03 PM

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QUOTE(Sichiri @ Aug 25 2010, 05:00 PM)
you're contradicting yourself here.
reapers = imba early game
zerg = strong early game

what?
*
from my understanding...he means that reaper only imba when they sneaks inside your base...
evofantasy
post Aug 25 2010, 05:05 PM

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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 25 2010, 04:57 PM)
That's because he's a good skill player and reaper is imba. Reaper are scary once they sneak into your mineral line ... coz they can tore down crawler very fast, if they target your drone and hatchery ... then you are gone as well.
.
.
.

However, I'm talking about generally Zerg in early game. If my opponent go reaper, means he have to sacrifice his marine and marauder, which make me have certain advantage as well.
*
the new terran style of reaper play DO NOT go for ur mineral line...
it go after ur queen and ur units wearing u down while he pump more reapers with nitro upgrade on the way...
once the critical number is reached, he can 1 shot almost anything while micro-ing it away from damage...

the reaper is for containment, not harassment (well it does harass ur queen and ur army LOL)...

unless u are tarson that used his reaper to harass the mineral line and got wtfbbqpwned losing 10 reapers in the process, that's nt the way to utilize reapers...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 25 2010, 05:06 PM
Sichiri
post Aug 25 2010, 05:06 PM

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I'm gonna post this here as well since we're on topic lol



lyrics
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

goldfries
post Aug 25 2010, 05:06 PM

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the last person who did reaper rush on me was also having marines at his base.

i lost my drones, he lost his entire base. tongue.gif
ReWeR
post Aug 25 2010, 05:07 PM

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QUOTE(Sichiri @ Aug 25 2010, 05:00 PM)
you're contradicting yourself here.
reapers = imba early game
zerg = strong early game

what?
*
my point is reapers are conditional and need good skill player. if it is that good, all Terran players sure produce reapers most the game already.

as a Zerg player, I'm not scare of other races during early game, except another Zerg player.

Want to swarm me with tier 1 units? Let's see my zerglings better or your marines/zealots better.

Want to go for reapers? then your base is quite open and I might tech to hydra waiting for you, or I even do a 10 pool rush. My opponent need to gather quite some gas b4 reapers can come out ... unless he's a very good defense player, else my speedlings already swarm to his base and surround his barrack.
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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 25 2010, 05:07 PM)
my point is reapers are conditional and need good skill player. if it is that good, all Terran players sure produce reapers most the game already.

as a Zerg player, I'm not scare of other races during early game, except another Zerg player.

Want to swarm me with tier 1 units? Let's see my zerglings better or your marines/zealots better.

Want to go for reapers? then your base is quite open and I might tech to hydra waiting for you, or I even do a 10 pool rush. My opponent need to gather quite some gas b4 reapers can come out ... unless he's a very good defense player, else my speedlings already swarm to his base and surround his barrack.
*
and also bust the walls with banelings.. rclxms.gif
raylee914
post Aug 25 2010, 05:10 PM

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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 25 2010, 05:07 PM)
my point is reapers are conditional and need good skill player. if it is that good, all Terran players sure produce reapers most the game already.

as a Zerg player, I'm not scare of other races during early game, except another Zerg player.

Want to swarm me with tier 1 units? Let's see my zerglings better or your marines/zealots better.

Want to go for reapers? then your base is quite open and I might tech to hydra waiting for you, or I even do a 10 pool rush. My opponent need to gather quite some gas b4 reapers can come out ... unless he's a very good defense player, else my speedlings already swarm to his base and surround his barrack.
*
just need 100 gas..50 for lab and 50 for reapers to come out 1..biggrin.gif
MYNAMEISJASON
post Aug 25 2010, 05:12 PM

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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 25 2010, 05:07 PM)
my point is reapers are conditional and need good skill player. if it is that good, all Terran players sure produce reapers most the game already.

as a Zerg player, I'm not scare of other races during early game, except another Zerg player.

Want to swarm me with tier 1 units? Let's see my zerglings better or your marines/zealots better.

Want to go for reapers? then your base is quite open and I might tech to hydra waiting for you, or I even do a 10 pool rush. My opponent need to gather quite some gas b4 reapers can come out ... unless he's a very good defense player, else my speedlings already swarm to his base and surround his barrack.
*
At mid diamond level 600+, terran players don't make too many silly mistakes and you can get as many speedlings as you want but once his army comes out, you are utterly screwed.
evofantasy
post Aug 25 2010, 05:14 PM

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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 25 2010, 05:07 PM)
my point is reapers are conditional and need good skill player. if it is that good, all Terran players sure produce reapers most the game already.

as a Zerg player, I'm not scare of other races during early game, except another Zerg player.

Want to swarm me with tier 1 units? Let's see my zerglings better or your marines/zealots better.

Want to go for reapers? then your base is quite open and I might tech to hydra waiting for you, or I even do a 10 pool rush. My opponent need to gather quite some gas b4 reapers can come out ... unless he's a very good defense player, else my speedlings already swarm to his base and surround his barrack.
*
reapers opening are really really really fast...
it dun follow the conventional 9supply opening for terrans...

usually reapers would be out hitting u crazy before u can even start ur roach tech wut more hydras...
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post Aug 25 2010, 05:14 PM

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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 25 2010, 05:07 PM)
my point is reapers are conditional and need good skill player. if it is that good, all Terran players sure produce reapers most the game already.

as a Zerg player, I'm not scare of other races during early game, except another Zerg player.

Want to swarm me with tier 1 units? Let's see my zerglings better or your marines/zealots better.

Want to go for reapers? then your base is quite open and I might tech to hydra waiting for you, or I even do a 10 pool rush. My opponent need to gather quite some gas b4 reapers can come out ... unless he's a very good defense player, else my speedlings already swarm to his base and surround his barrack.
*
How to do that when they have choked the ramp? Any way with that? I find it very hard because everytime when a T player goes for Reapers, he blocks his choke with 2 SD and a rax. 10 pool rush also can't break through and if I rush with a 10 pool rush, then economy will be slow n when reapers come, it gets even worse sad.gif
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post Aug 25 2010, 05:14 PM

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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 25 2010, 04:57 PM)
That's because he's a good skill player and reaper is imba. Reaper are scary once they sneak into your mineral line ... coz they can tore down crawler very fast, if they target your drone and hatchery ... then you are gone as well.
.
.
.

However, I'm talking about generally Zerg in early game. If my opponent go reaper, means he have to sacrifice his marine and marauder, which make me have certain advantage as well.
*
thats the thing, hes using reapers TO RAPE THE QUEEN, RAPE THE ROACH, RAPE THE DAMN BASE EVERYTHING.

not just the mineral line, YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Sichiri
post Aug 25 2010, 05:14 PM

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this just the reapers harass phase.
We haven't even go through the 'Bio ball is rollin' phase yet.
evofantasy
post Aug 25 2010, 05:17 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 25 2010, 05:14 PM)
thats the thing, hes using reapers TO RAPE THE QUEEN, RAPE THE ROACH, RAPE THE DAMN BASE EVERYTHING.

not just the mineral line, YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
*
tell that to tarson, he lost 10 reapers LOL

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 25 2010, 05:17 PM
Quazacolt
post Aug 25 2010, 05:17 PM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 25 2010, 05:05 PM)
the new terran style of reaper play DO NOT go for ur mineral line...
it go after ur queen and ur units wearing u down while he pump more reapers with nitro upgrade on the way...
once the critical number is reached, he can 1 shot almost anything while micro-ing it away from damage...

the reaper is for containment, not harassment (well it does harass ur queen and ur army LOL)...

unless u are tarson that used his reaper to harass the mineral line and got wtfbbqpwned losing 10 reapers in the process, that's nt the way to utilize reapers...
*
it is. cept in pro play, things change. and tarson, lets just say he got outplayed. lol
raylee914
post Aug 25 2010, 05:17 PM

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lol..i smell a flame/fight...
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QUOTE(Sichiri @ Aug 25 2010, 05:14 PM)
this just the reapers harass phase.
We haven't even go through the 'Bio ball is rollin' phase yet.
*
dont even have to go through that phase. 5 tech lab rax spamming reapers like theres no tomorrow. wtf is this i dont even
evofantasy
post Aug 25 2010, 05:19 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 25 2010, 05:17 PM)
it is. cept in pro play, things change. and tarson, lets just say he got outplayed. lol
*
its more to a bad decision...
if he were to just keep the containment going instead of trying to get the drones, he would be in a much better shape...
ReWeR
post Aug 25 2010, 05:19 PM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 25 2010, 05:05 PM)
the new terran style of reaper play DO NOT go for ur mineral line...
it go after ur queen and ur units wearing u down while he pump more reapers with nitro upgrade on the way...
once the critical number is reached, he can 1 shot almost anything while micro-ing it away from damage...

the reaper is for containment, not harassment (well it does harass ur queen and ur army LOL)...

unless u are tarson that used his reaper to harass the mineral line and got wtfbbqpwned losing 10 reapers in the process, that's nt the way to utilize reapers...
*
I'm not saying reapers are not annoying ... but still nothing compare to late game units of toss and terran.

once my hydra army was wipe out by the collosus + void ray + a few stalker or something.

resource wise, I think we are equal, and suppose hydra should kick air units ass right? well ... it's wrong ... the void ray fry my hydra like some pan cakes.

so after that, I find reapers aren't that scary after all. tongue.gif
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post Aug 25 2010, 05:20 PM

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Watch how reapers shred the poor angry american.

This post has been edited by MYNAMEISJASON: Aug 25 2010, 05:24 PM
raylee914
post Aug 25 2010, 05:21 PM

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hydra own void ray(without charge)....
evofantasy
post Aug 25 2010, 05:22 PM

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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 25 2010, 05:19 PM)
I'm not saying reapers are not annoying ... but still nothing compare to late game units of toss and terran.

once my hydra army was wipe out by the collosus + void ray + a few stalker or something.

resource wise, I think we are equal, and suppose hydra should kick air units ass right? well ... it's wrong ... the void ray fry my hydra like some pan cakes.

so after that, I find reapers aren't that scary after all. tongue.gif
*
u should realize 1 thing...
no matter how good ur mid/ late game is, when u are contained and constantly shot at its over for u...
often if u play against pro, they'll go for a early game victory and carry the momentum to the end...


Added on August 25, 2010, 5:23 pm
QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Aug 25 2010, 05:20 PM)

Watch how reapers shred the poor angry american.
*
whitebox is how u own poor angry american with reapers



fixed for u



This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 25 2010, 05:23 PM
Quazacolt
post Aug 25 2010, 05:25 PM

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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 25 2010, 05:19 PM)
I'm not saying reapers are not annoying ... but still nothing compare to late game units of toss and terran.

once my hydra army was wipe out by the collosus + void ray + a few stalker or something.

resource wise, I think we are equal, and suppose hydra should kick air units ass right? well ... it's wrong ... the void ray fry my hydra like some pan cakes.

so after that, I find reapers aren't that scary after all. tongue.gif
*
dont know if you get it, THERE IS NO LATE GAME.

please, watch the game between morrow and idra.

#1 and #2 of the latest intel IEM tournament. first price is 5k USD. total prize pot is 15k usd. definitely not small fry tourney. (korean got told by KESPA, or he may be able to wtfpwn the scene! /QQ)


Added on August 25, 2010, 5:25 pm
QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Aug 25 2010, 05:20 PM)

Watch how reapers shred the poor angry american.
*
idra is british yo XD

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 25 2010, 05:25 PM
ReWeR
post Aug 25 2010, 05:26 PM

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QUOTE(raylee914 @ Aug 25 2010, 05:21 PM)
hydra own void ray(without charge)....
*
that's what I thought also ... but the truth is void ray quite powerful vs land unit lar ... the void ray charge when my hydra busy targeting the collosus.

you might say why don't you go for muta? but from my experience, if they scout it, they will switch to stalker + some phoenix ... which also fry muta very good. muta cost quite many gas, it's hard to rebuild if they wipe out my muta ...
evofantasy
post Aug 25 2010, 05:27 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 25 2010, 05:25 PM)
dont know if you get it, THERE IS NO LATE GAME.

please, watch the game between morrow and idra.

#1 and #2 of the latest intel IEM tournament. first price is 5k USD. total prize pot is 15k usd. definitely not small fry tourney. (korean got told by KESPA, or he may be able to wtfpwn the scene! /QQ)


Added on August 25, 2010, 5:25 pm

idra is british yo XD
*
he's american according to the IEM player profile =p
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post Aug 25 2010, 05:35 PM

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IdrA is American. Please stop making silly comparisons, instead of debating which tier 1 unit combo is better how about we get serious and start discussing about strategy instead?
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post Aug 25 2010, 05:36 PM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 25 2010, 05:27 PM)
he's american according to the IEM player profile =p
*
hmm i further dug the liquipedia, ya woh. how the hell i remembered him as british? XD

maybe mixed up with someone else (who else is british amongst the top players? lol)


Added on August 25, 2010, 5:37 pm
QUOTE(Ash @ Aug 25 2010, 05:35 PM)
IdrA is American. Please stop making silly comparisons, instead of debating which tier 1 unit combo is better how about we get serious and start discussing about strategy instead?
*
pretty sure silly comparisons are still valid strategy discussions.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 25 2010, 05:37 PM
ReWeR
post Aug 25 2010, 05:41 PM

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just because some pro players lose using Zerg, then suddenly everyone conclude Zerg is the weakest race in the universe.

I'm still quite enjoy using Zerg no matter it wins or lose in any competition, since myself is just a casual player. I'm not saying the game is perfectly balance, but Zerg wasn't that weak as most other ppl see it.

If you think reapers are flawless, then why don't you start to use Terran and kick Zerg player's ass (such as me) using reapers? Then you will enjoy the fruit of victory.
evofantasy
post Aug 25 2010, 05:41 PM

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QUOTE(Ash @ Aug 25 2010, 05:35 PM)
IdrA is American. Please stop making silly comparisons, instead of debating which tier 1 unit combo is better how about we get serious and start discussing about strategy instead?
*
u gotta accept the way reapers are being played to come up with a strategy over it...
assuming the 5 rax reaper style, ntg much u can do unless u can get a surround before the critical mass...
else, stick to 1 base roach like idra vs tarson semis but that is very very close as well relying ur opponent to mis-micro...
and 5 tech rax would get marauders out pretty fast for ur roaches...


Added on August 25, 2010, 5:43 pm
QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 25 2010, 05:41 PM)
just because some pro players lose using Zerg, then suddenly everyone conclude Zerg is the weakest race in the universe.

I'm still quite enjoy using Zerg no matter it wins or lose in any competition, since myself is just a casual player. I'm not saying the game is perfectly balance, but Zerg wasn't that weak as most other ppl see it.

If you think reapers are flawless, then why don't you start to use Terran and kick Zerg player's ass (such as me) using reapers? Then you will enjoy the fruit of victory.
*
even morrow aka winner of IEM 2010 agreed that reaper opening are just too strong on zerg...
and i cant think of a way to overcome it unless the terran make a mismicro...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Aug 25 2010, 05:43 PM
Soul-X
post Aug 25 2010, 06:02 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 25 2010, 04:52 PM)
fuyoh lansi ady LOLOLOLOL
*
LOLOLOLOLOL NOT ONLY ME!! SEE the quote below!!

QUOTE(MYNAMEISJASON @ Aug 25 2010, 05:12 PM)
At mid diamond level 600+, terran players don't make too many silly mistakes and you can get as many speedlings as you want but once his army comes out, you are utterly screwed.
*
=============================================

QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 25 2010, 05:14 PM)
thats the thing, hes using reapers TO RAPE THE QUEEN, RAPE THE ROACH, RAPE THE DAMN BASE EVERYTHING.

not just the mineral line, YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
*
YES!! Reapers RAPE everyone YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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post Aug 25 2010, 06:02 PM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 25 2010, 05:41 PM)
u gotta accept the way reapers are being played to come up with a strategy over it...
assuming the 5 rax reaper style, ntg much u can do unless u can get a surround before the critical mass...
else, stick to 1 base roach like idra vs tarson semis but that is very very close as well relying ur opponent to mis-micro...
and 5 tech rax would get marauders out pretty fast for ur roaches...


Added on August 25, 2010, 5:43 pm

even morrow aka winner of IEM 2010 agreed that reaper opening are just too strong on zerg...
and i cant think of a way to overcome it unless the terran make a mismicro...
*
see morrow made a couple of mis micro (as with idra, i guess. maybe too ragey), but shit means nothing when he got his production lead, resource lead, and what not lol.


Added on August 25, 2010, 6:03 pm
QUOTE(Soul-X @ Aug 25 2010, 06:02 PM)
LOLOLOLOLOL NOT ONLY ME!! SEE the quote below!!
=============================================
YES!! Reapers RAPE everyone YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
*
reapers are almost, if not already "boku" status YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 25 2010, 06:03 PM
Soul-X
post Aug 25 2010, 06:19 PM

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lol 'boku'................. hahahaha ~ don't watch boku niggas~
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post Aug 25 2010, 06:20 PM

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this tered is heating up YOOOOO ~
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post Aug 25 2010, 06:20 PM

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If I'm not wrong, the semifinal match of DiMaGa vs morrow, morrow's reaper micro isn't as good as his final matches against IdrA as you can see that DiMaGa can counter the reaper rush easily with zerglings.

And before the finals match, DiMaGa told morrow that his reaper micro is not that good and trained him for 2 hours upon his micro. That's why you see morrow does not have any difficulty playing reaper rush against IdrA.

Estimation of the unit count for the final match - (The actual unit count is around there)
20 zerglings vs 6 reapers - 6 reapers wins with just 1-2 reaper lost.

@ReWeR : A few reapers don't bring much trait to Zerg when terran usually use them just to harass the zerg's mineral line. But when a terran mass reapers just to finish you off your units/base, I don't think you stand any chance to pull it off. Even if you play safe being just 1 Base and manage to stop the reaper rush, the terran would most probably had expo done already. And when zerg's eco is lower than his opponent, it's a instant result of telling you that you'll lose, or maybe just with the low chance of winning the game.
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post Aug 25 2010, 06:21 PM

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QUOTE(Soul-X @ Aug 25 2010, 06:19 PM)
lol 'boku'................. hahahaha ~ don't watch boku niggas~
*
i wonder who else over here understood this. wwwwwwwwwwwwww
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post Aug 25 2010, 06:30 PM

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yesss! i managed to flame everyone into making this issue hot!!
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post Aug 25 2010, 06:32 PM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 25 2010, 06:30 PM)
yesss! i managed to flame everyone into making this issue hot!!
*
not really.
evofantasy
post Aug 25 2010, 06:32 PM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Aug 25 2010, 06:30 PM)
yesss! i managed to flame everyone into making this issue hot!!
*
there's a fine line between discussion and a flamewar...
no name calling to date lol...
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post Aug 25 2010, 06:34 PM

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Sigh watching zerg lost terribly to terran makes me wanna play terran badly...

but NOOOOO!!!

My life is for the SWARM YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
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post Aug 25 2010, 06:40 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Aug 25 2010, 06:32 PM)
not really.
*
QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 25 2010, 06:32 PM)
there's a fine line between discussion and a flamewar...
no name calling to date lol...
*
just kiddin..

i hv to study again on the issue..

goldfries
post Aug 25 2010, 06:52 PM

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i play zerg for the fun of it. biggrin.gif most of my victories are from zerg so yeah, i like. suits my style.
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post Aug 25 2010, 07:22 PM

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anyone knows how to shoot and stop , shoot and stop like we see in Replays ?
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post Aug 25 2010, 07:26 PM

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Zerg's should try using this strat more ....


This post has been edited by Laguna: Aug 25 2010, 07:27 PM
ReWeR
post Aug 25 2010, 07:26 PM

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QUOTE(LoNeLy-Zhai @ Aug 25 2010, 06:20 PM)
@ReWeR : A few reapers don't bring much trait to Zerg when terran usually use them just to harass the zerg's mineral line. But when a terran mass reapers just to finish you off your units/base, I don't think you stand any chance to pull it off. Even if you play safe being just 1 Base and manage to stop the reaper rush, the terran would most probably had expo done already. And when zerg's eco is lower than his opponent, it's a instant result of telling you that you'll lose, or maybe just with the low chance of winning the game.
*
How often we gonna vs those gosu Terran player? Not much right?

I'm pretty sure there will a patch to fix this.

But overall it still doesn't change my perception on Zerg that it is strong in early game and weak in late game.

I wish Blizzard can make muta and hydra stronger in next patch tho tongue.gif


Added on August 25, 2010, 7:29 pmHow come nobody discuss about Terran's ghost?

I seldom see ghost when playing vs Terran tho ...

But in 'theory', I always thought ghost's snipe ability can wipe out entire zerg forces easily since zerg units are all biological.

This post has been edited by ReWeR: Aug 25 2010, 07:29 PM
Quazacolt
post Aug 25 2010, 07:31 PM

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QUOTE(cusx @ Aug 25 2010, 07:22 PM)
anyone knows how to shoot and stop , shoot and stop like we see in Replays ?
*
right click + s are your friend
LoNeLy-Zhai
post Aug 25 2010, 09:01 PM

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But it was known that Zerg is weakest in the early due to the fact that they are the most vulnerable to any early attacks and need the early expansion in order to have a better advantage for the game. Zerg is unlike protoss or terran where they could wall off to avoid early rushes and they are strong enough being in just one base.

And the pros uses ghost to snipe Zerg's mutalisk to prevent them harassing here and there. EMP is pretty much useless against Zerg units except for infestor.
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post Aug 25 2010, 09:49 PM

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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 25 2010, 07:26 PM)
How often we gonna vs those gosu Terran player? Not much right?

I'm pretty sure there will a patch to fix this.

But overall it still doesn't change my perception on Zerg that it is strong in early game and weak in late game.

I wish Blizzard can make muta and hydra stronger in next patch tho tongue.gif


Added on August 25, 2010, 7:29 pmHow come nobody discuss about Terran's ghost?

I seldom see ghost when playing vs Terran tho ...

But in 'theory', I always thought ghost's snipe ability can wipe out entire zerg forces easily since zerg units are all biological.
*
Problem is even if you make muta and hydra stronger it wont help much as our T1 unit is kinda difficult to hold off these attack


Added on August 26, 2010, 12:21 amuser posted image

Anyone can help out my gameplay? really suck.. keep losing my game..

This post has been edited by Sky.Live: Aug 26 2010, 12:21 AM
goldfries
post Aug 26 2010, 12:48 AM

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QUOTE(LoNeLy-Zhai @ Aug 25 2010, 09:01 PM)
But it was known that Zerg is weakest in the early due to the fact that they are the most vulnerable to any early attacks and need the early expansion in order to have a better advantage for the game. Zerg is unlike protoss or terran where they could wall off to avoid early rushes and they are strong enough being in just one base.

And the pros uses ghost to snipe Zerg's mutalisk to prevent them harassing here and there. EMP is pretty much useless against Zerg units except for infestor.
ehh, most of my wins are using Zerg with early attack. biggrin.gif you can't defend, no choice have to attack la.

in some cases, you can hope that your opponent doesn't attack and then you tech up while having a bit of defences.

LoNeLy-Zhai
post Aug 26 2010, 01:19 AM

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The best part of playing zerg is when your opponent doesn't decide to attack you early or to pressure you which allows you to expand around the base and have an easy win given the better economy and larger amount of units (:

@goldfries : That would depends how they attack you also I guess but it's risky to do that because if your opponent refuses to retreat back to defend their base it would be a base rush play. Terran can lift up their buildings leaving your early-lings and roaches to have no threat towards the building while protoss could just spam pylon all around the map while they are destroying your base.

Plus, early attack fails easily if they wall it off the choke point. You'll lose eventually cause you might take some time to break off their wall before you're able to rush in their bases and smash everything inside. That is why usually zerg player awaits for opponent to push and when they fails they'll counter push in an advantage of army count/force.
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post Aug 26 2010, 03:50 AM

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one thing about zerg la, in order to to spam produce mutalisk in constant stream, i had to have 3 hatcheries going for all 6 gas with 3 drones to each gas. phew ..... sad.gif
evofantasy
post Aug 26 2010, 03:56 AM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 26 2010, 03:50 AM)
one thing about zerg la, in order to to spam produce mutalisk in constant stream, i had to have 3 hatcheries going for all 6 gas with 3 drones to each gas. phew ..... sad.gif
*
i think 2 base would be more than enuff for mutas usually O.o
since more hatch = more larvae LOL...
and get lings for mutalings!!!!
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post Aug 26 2010, 06:59 AM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 26 2010, 03:50 AM)
one thing about zerg la, in order to to spam produce mutalisk in constant stream, i had to have 3 hatcheries going for all 6 gas with 3 drones to each gas. phew ..... sad.gif
*
u gonna have like... 30 muta? biggrin.gif
that sounds a lot to me if u going 3 base u can have many backup as well, get up corrupter and greater spire as well, evolve to broodlord if u have to
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post Aug 26 2010, 11:12 AM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 26 2010, 03:50 AM)
one thing about zerg la, in order to to spam produce mutalisk in constant stream, i had to have 3 hatcheries going for all 6 gas with 3 drones to each gas. phew ..... sad.gif
*
Wah you want to create a muta bio ball is it? so many mutalisks tongue.gif
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post Aug 26 2010, 11:27 AM

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QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Aug 26 2010, 06:59 AM)
u gonna have like... 30 muta?  biggrin.gif
that sounds a lot to me if u going 3 base u can have many backup as well, get up corrupter and greater spire as well, evolve to broodlord if u have to
*
QUOTE(Mavik @ Aug 26 2010, 11:12 AM)
Wah you want to create a muta bio ball is it? so many mutalisks tongue.gif
*
ehh. dowan waste time corrupter or greater spire la. biggrin.gif i wanted to end game fast.

yes muta bio ball. at least 30 muta i think. my final attack has 10 - 15 muta i think, + my earlier batch 10 - 15 that died earlier for overlord and drone harassment, plus the slew others that are coming out.

was spamming muta to harass the other player la since the fella seal up the ramp with tentacles and spamming hydralisk already. coming from lower ground with terrain disadvantage is not a good thing. speedlings just camp outside entrance (away from hentai reach), sufficient to watch and stop expansion.

at the end of the game i only have speedlings and mutalisks. hordes of mutalisks and speedlings (produce lings when my production run out of vespene). smile.gif

4 hatcheries over 3 mineral patches. speedlings + zerglings stopping all form of expansion from the poor guy (stuck with 1H and foiled his expansion).

QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 26 2010, 03:56 AM)
i think 2 base would be more than enuff for mutas usually O.o
since more hatch = more larvae LOL...
and get lings for mutalings!!!!
1. i don't wish to lose
2. i want muta harass / attack

so yeah, every bit of time lost is not good. 3H with 6 gas, each with 3 drones. spam kau kau 1 (group) > S > TTTTTTZZZZZZZ.
ReWeR
post Aug 26 2010, 02:17 PM

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anyone ever bother to research carrier ability for overlord?

200m 200g not cheap wei ... i was thinking to drop speelings on opponent expansion ... but scare off by the research price ...
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post Aug 26 2010, 02:21 PM

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hehe. no time to research. possible for long games la but i prefer my games to end quick. m and g good for units.
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post Aug 26 2010, 02:22 PM

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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 26 2010, 02:17 PM)
anyone ever bother to research carrier ability for overlord?

200m 200g not cheap wei ... i was thinking to drop speelings on opponent expansion ... but scare off by the research price ...
*
I hardly see drops but I see Nydus canals used a lot more
evofantasy
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QUOTE(Mavik @ Aug 26 2010, 02:22 PM)
I hardly see drops but I see Nydus canals used a lot more
*
baneling drops on tanks as done by artosis (day9daily)
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post Aug 26 2010, 02:24 PM

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I always research overlord speed for scouting purposes and making my creep highway.
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post Aug 26 2010, 02:30 PM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 26 2010, 02:21 PM)
hehe. no time to research. possible for long games la but i prefer my games to end quick. m and g good for units.
*
I do notice zerg not much things to upgrade ... most ppl juz pump units none stop ... but i see computer, they always make evolution chamber one ...

QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 26 2010, 02:24 PM)
baneling drops on tanks as done by artosis (day9daily)
*
probably it's good ... but 1 baneling cost 50m 25g ... expensive T_T
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post Aug 26 2010, 02:34 PM

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i think i still suck at using zerg, I win most games via tactic (something i developed when playing other RTS).

my basic Zerg knowledge is limited. i don't remember the Tech tree and requirements for units like I do for Protoss or Terrans.

i just go with my SC1 Zerg days info (with a bit new stuff on SC2) and relying mostly on basic units. LOL. i didn't even know muta's M and G requirement until last night, i just focus on resource gathering and spam them only. (that also won a number of games using mutas) tongue.gif

then again i'm in Bronze league, my style of play can use there la but not in higher leagues. in the end, tactic is still more important.


Added on August 26, 2010, 2:35 pm
QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 26 2010, 02:30 PM)
I do notice zerg not much things to upgrade ... most ppl juz pump units none stop ... but i see computer, they always make evolution chamber one ...
i donno. i see like quite a number of things to upgrade wan.

some structures need lair, some need hive.

and production is very limited to # of hatchery.
evofantasy
post Aug 26 2010, 02:37 PM

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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 26 2010, 02:30 PM)
I do notice zerg not much things to upgrade ... most ppl juz pump units none stop ... but i see computer, they always make evolution chamber one ...
probably it's good ... but 1 baneling cost 50m 25g ... expensive T_T
*
there's so much to upgrade besides the +/+ upgrades...
hydras range, speed of various units, armor for ultras and so forth
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post Aug 26 2010, 02:38 PM

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i think what i find most difficult in early game is the balance between drone, combat units and overlords - having minimal resources, 3 larvae.

go drone. more resource, less combat.
go combat, less resource.
go overlord, less either the above.

but normally i put priority on overlord, or at least when i'm pretty close to food limitation.

on the plus side, i like that i can group all hatchery and build drone, overlord and combat units. biggrin.gif all from same place.
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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 26 2010, 02:24 PM)
baneling drops on tanks as done by artosis (day9daily)
*
Doh, i am not in artosis' league mah hahaha. How to see it when I play against zerg tongue.gif


Added on August 26, 2010, 3:13 pm
QUOTE(ReWeR @ Aug 26 2010, 02:30 PM)
I do notice zerg not much things to upgrade ... most ppl juz pump units none stop ... but i see computer, they always make evolution chamber one ...
*
Use evo chamber to do the evo chamber cheeze! tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Mavik: Aug 26 2010, 03:13 PM
ReWeR
post Aug 26 2010, 03:13 PM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 26 2010, 02:38 PM)
i think what i find most difficult in early game is the balance between drone, combat units and overlords - having minimal resources, 3 larvae.

go drone. more resource, less combat.
go combat, less resource.
go overlord, less either the above.

but normally i put priority on overlord, or at least when i'm pretty close to food limitation.

on the plus side, i like that i can group all hatchery and build drone, overlord and combat units. biggrin.gif all from same place.
*
plus side is also the down side of zerg ... in the heat of combat ... u have to constantly remind yourself go back to hatchery and cast spawn larvae spell... else you not enough larvae for your next army.

if you play all races, you will notice zerg in sc2 is the least upgrade one.
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post Aug 26 2010, 03:28 PM

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hrm. yeah. unlike those found in armory / e.bay / forge. multiple upgrades of multiple levels huh?

no need go back to hatchery la. biggrin.gif i set all hatcheries into 1 group. 1 > S > press press press press press.

i find the troublesome part about zerg is the micro management. to be effective in combat, you need to make sure they deal kau kau damage without getting lost in formation (applies to all race but i think zerg has most melee units).

i hate it when zerglings run around aimlessly.
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post Aug 26 2010, 03:33 PM

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QUOTE(Laguna @ Aug 25 2010, 08:26 PM)
Zerg's should try using this strat more ....

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the terran player is jz dumb..everyone knew evo chamber spawn broodlings when it dies..plus if he build up a bunker earlier when the evo chamber is still on the making everything wud be fine..

i mean wth man,who gav him the idea to shoot the evo chamber when he only got 1 rine doh.gif
hizperion
post Aug 26 2010, 04:07 PM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 26 2010, 03:28 PM)
no need go back to hatchery la. biggrin.gif i set all hatcheries into 1 group. 1 > S  > press press press press press.
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need go hatchery to spawn larva using queen
Exiled_Gundam
post Aug 26 2010, 04:11 PM

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QUOTE(mollymurder @ Aug 26 2010, 03:33 PM)
the terran player is jz dumb..everyone knew evo chamber spawn broodlings when it dies..plus if he build up a bunker earlier when the evo chamber is still on the making everything wud be fine..

i mean wth man,who gav him the idea to shoot the evo chamber when he only got 1 rine  doh.gif
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I think he didn't expect that kind of cheese I think. The first action ppl usually do if enemy building is built on your base is destroy the building
goldfries
post Aug 26 2010, 04:12 PM

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till now i haven't make any queen.
mad_geist
post Aug 26 2010, 04:17 PM

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Wth? Goldfries! u never made Queens????

I think they are a must haves.. or at least pro people using it too..

I'm guessing u making multiple hatcheries per mineral location?
Mavik
post Aug 26 2010, 04:29 PM

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QUOTE(hizperion @ Aug 26 2010, 04:07 PM)
need go hatchery to spawn larva using queen
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Also no need, bind your queen to a group, say 4 and just select it, use hotkey "v" for spawn larvae and select your hatchery via the minimap. The queen will auto find the nearest hatchery and spawn larvae there.
ReWeR
post Aug 26 2010, 04:30 PM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 26 2010, 04:12 PM)
till now i haven't make any queen.
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you are a dead meat if you don't use queen doh.gif

against any decent zerg player and you are bye bye.

queen + zergling dominate early game mang ...
rockets
post Aug 26 2010, 04:34 PM

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QUOTE(hizperion @ Aug 26 2010, 04:07 PM)
need go hatchery to spawn larva using queen
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you can spawn larva using the minimap. i group all my queens togethers and my hatcheries together. select queen group, hold shift + v and click all my hatch on the minimap. the closest queen will always spawn larva at the closest hatchery.
Sichiri
post Aug 26 2010, 04:35 PM

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Queens must always be the first unit you make right after the spawning pool is finish.
goldfries
post Aug 26 2010, 04:39 PM

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izzit? tongue.gif i normally just straight ling ling ling ling ling. Christmas coming ling.
evofantasy
post Aug 26 2010, 04:40 PM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 26 2010, 04:39 PM)
izzit? tongue.gif i normally just straight ling ling ling ling ling. Christmas coming ling.
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spawn larvae and creep tumors are needed la...
and its ur only source of AA...
diasrandford
post Aug 26 2010, 04:41 PM

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zerglings is the best transport for Santa. Especially is Santa morph them to Speedlings.

No more delay christmas present.
Sichiri
post Aug 26 2010, 04:44 PM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 26 2010, 04:39 PM)
izzit? tongue.gif i normally just straight ling ling ling ling ling. Christmas coming ling.
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you can build lings AND queen at the same time, Queen doesn't need larvae.
goldfries
post Aug 26 2010, 04:44 PM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 26 2010, 04:40 PM)
spawn larvae and creep tumors are needed la...
and its ur only source of AA...
ehh, till now i never make any queen or creep tumor.

i say liao, my zerg skill very basic. don't make me feel more embarass tongue.gif blush.gif i use my basic still to win games. haha.
evofantasy
post Aug 26 2010, 04:47 PM

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QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 26 2010, 04:44 PM)
ehh, till now i never make any queen or creep tumor.

i say liao, my zerg skill very basic. don't make me feel more embarass tongue.gif  blush.gif i use my basic still to win games. haha.
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if u 6 pool me and i loose i sure rage quit...
like some zerg i ladder with last nite (diamond), 6 pooled me on lost temple without even scouting me!!!
either he damn kai due to spawn location or he MH =(
raylee914
post Aug 26 2010, 04:48 PM

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ya..6 pool is still an annoying strategy for PVZ I face =.=
goldfries
post Aug 26 2010, 04:50 PM

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Lost Temple, i also 6 pool someone but my rush failed. cos the fella got queen and later mass spawn the lings. (i think he know how to use queen. i donno how to use).

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