Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 The Zerg Strategy v1.0, Cheer for the overmind!

views
     
ReWeR
post Aug 25 2010, 12:46 PM

Foreveralone
******
Senior Member
1,715 posts

Joined: Sep 2004
From: KL


IMHO, to play Zerg is to mean you need to gain advantage during early game, advantage here could mean cripple your enemy, or you have much more resources and/or units that your opponent.

Zerg - strong in early game, moderate in mid game, and weak in late game.

Terran - weak in early game, strong in mid game, and moderate in late game

Protoss - weak in early game, moderate in mid game, strong in late game

So you see, if you don't gain advantage in early game ... you're pretty much screwed later, because Zerg units are just slightly cheaper than other race, overall the price is the same. To outnumber your opponent also actually mean you are out-resource of them.

In my opinion, Zerg have 2 units that conquer in the early game -> zergling and queen.

Queen not only a good early defense for Zerg, but her spell - spawn larvae is almost a must for all Zerg, with 1 hatchery and 1 queen, you basically doesn't need to build extra units producing building.

Zergling in terms of resources, is the best tier 1 units, in equal resources ... it can basically wipe out other races tier 1 units ... provided if it's in open spaces. Furthermore other races unable to produce as much tier 1 units of Zerg in short time, thanks to the Zerg's Queen's spell.

So whenever I play Zerg, I will try to be aggressive in early game, because I always think if I don't gain advantage in early game, most probably I will be a dead meat entering mid game onwards.
ReWeR
post Aug 25 2010, 04:12 PM

Foreveralone
******
Senior Member
1,715 posts

Joined: Sep 2004
From: KL


QUOTE(Sky.Live @ Aug 25 2010, 02:19 PM)
zerg is not the best early game anymore, will walling being so popular nowadays, i felt that zerg has lost the early advantage.

When people wall off, zerg have to FE, when we FE we are sit into more passive position and have to def. I watch the cast from Husky stated that zerg have to absorb all the harassment and damage in early and try to build up huge macro advantage later on

Mid and Eng game zerg is equally as strong as it is possible to rebuild entire army after a big army collapsed in a big battle, that's what which made zerg scary (provided you are $$ rich).
*
QUOTE(Moonflown @ Aug 25 2010, 02:25 PM)
Strongly disagree, zerg has almost the weakest early game because of the fragility of their base. And you can't really generalize mid and late game because RTS is not something like DotA. Mid and late game largely dependent on map control, pressure, harassment, and critical amount of certain unit + a lot other variables
*
QUOTE(Soul-X @ Aug 25 2010, 03:09 PM)
Zerg strong on early game? OH COME ON!!!!
*
I was doing a comparison of units who are in the same tier and same amount of resources. without taking consider of player skill and tactics.

In equal tier and resources, zerglings with speed upgrade are actually very scary.

20 zerglings + 1 roach, which cost 575min 25gas

8 marines + 1 marauder, which cost 600min 25gas

4 zealots + 1 stalker, which cost 525min 50gas

if you just put them together and fight (assume in an open space), who will win? from my experience, Zerg most of the time will win. terran 2nd because of the range advantage.

speedling is just too scary and dominating in early game.

but real life players aren't stupid either, they will wall in and be defensive to avoid early game with Zerg.

So a smart Zerg player actually have to think of ways to utilize the early advantage of Zerg to cripple the opponent. They try to break the opponent defense (probably that's why baneling was there?), or try to expand fast when opponent become turtled ...

But I have to admit that baneling is hard to use for me ... every time I saw they only did a pity 20 damage and there's goes my 50min 25gas ... I felt like waste a lot ...
ReWeR
post Aug 25 2010, 04:22 PM

Foreveralone
******
Senior Member
1,715 posts

Joined: Sep 2004
From: KL


QUOTE(Ash @ Aug 25 2010, 04:16 PM)
It is incredibly WRONG to make comparisons like that. Have you ever thought about Zerg who has to spend most if not all their larva in other to come up with the amount of units while terran and protoss can still consistently pumping scv probes ? Never ever ever make such comparison because they will not be accurate.
*
In my earlier post I already mention it is QUEEN + ZERGLING that dominate the early game. Queen can cast spawn larvae to the hatchery which add up another 4 larvaes to the hatchery.

From my experience, Zerg can come out large forces in early game faster than other 2 races in early game.

But that's only apply for early games ... in late games ... terran and toss already have tons of stargate or starpot or what so ever unit producing building, which they don't have difficulty to come out mass units in a short period.
ReWeR
post Aug 25 2010, 04:36 PM

Foreveralone
******
Senior Member
1,715 posts

Joined: Sep 2004
From: KL


QUOTE(Soul-X @ Aug 25 2010, 04:23 PM)
Zergling doesn't dominate early game... Reapers rape them like no tomorrow...
*
reapers are only useful if you plan to sneak and utilize the cliff to gain advantage and use hit n run tactic.

10 reapers vs 20 speedlings in an open space is sure bye bye to the reapers because of their low hp.

I think it's dangerous if terran only plan to produce reapers to counter zerglings ... hellion probably is a better options.

but still i did wipe out my enemy who use hellion + marine combo with swarm of speedlings before. because hellion need to get from factory, by the time he produce 5 hellions, I already have 50 speedlings waiting outside of his base.

btw, I am indeed a Zerg player, and I often lose as well. I'm not saying Zerg are strong, it just to me that Zerg always have the advantage on early game, and pretty much bye bye if the Zerg player can't utilize that.

Normally Zerg player who can win in late game is because he/she out-resource of his/her opponent or probably out-skill as well. If equal resources wise, I don't think Zerg late units are that good ...
ReWeR
post Aug 25 2010, 04:57 PM

Foreveralone
******
Senior Member
1,715 posts

Joined: Sep 2004
From: KL


QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 25 2010, 04:49 PM)
seriously no offense, go watch IEM and see how reapers are used...
everything u have been saying is just plain wrong  doh.gif
*
That's because he's a good skill player and reaper is imba. Reaper are scary once they sneak into your mineral line ... coz they can tore down crawler very fast, if they target your drone and hatchery ... then you are gone as well.
.
.
.

However, I'm talking about generally Zerg in early game. If my opponent go reaper, means he have to sacrifice his marine and marauder, which make me have certain advantage as well.
ReWeR
post Aug 25 2010, 05:07 PM

Foreveralone
******
Senior Member
1,715 posts

Joined: Sep 2004
From: KL


QUOTE(Sichiri @ Aug 25 2010, 05:00 PM)
you're contradicting yourself here.
reapers = imba early game
zerg = strong early game

what?
*
my point is reapers are conditional and need good skill player. if it is that good, all Terran players sure produce reapers most the game already.

as a Zerg player, I'm not scare of other races during early game, except another Zerg player.

Want to swarm me with tier 1 units? Let's see my zerglings better or your marines/zealots better.

Want to go for reapers? then your base is quite open and I might tech to hydra waiting for you, or I even do a 10 pool rush. My opponent need to gather quite some gas b4 reapers can come out ... unless he's a very good defense player, else my speedlings already swarm to his base and surround his barrack.
ReWeR
post Aug 25 2010, 05:19 PM

Foreveralone
******
Senior Member
1,715 posts

Joined: Sep 2004
From: KL


QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 25 2010, 05:05 PM)
the new terran style of reaper play DO NOT go for ur mineral line...
it go after ur queen and ur units wearing u down while he pump more reapers with nitro upgrade on the way...
once the critical number is reached, he can 1 shot almost anything while micro-ing it away from damage...

the reaper is for containment, not harassment (well it does harass ur queen and ur army LOL)...

unless u are tarson that used his reaper to harass the mineral line and got wtfbbqpwned losing 10 reapers in the process, that's nt the way to utilize reapers...
*
I'm not saying reapers are not annoying ... but still nothing compare to late game units of toss and terran.

once my hydra army was wipe out by the collosus + void ray + a few stalker or something.

resource wise, I think we are equal, and suppose hydra should kick air units ass right? well ... it's wrong ... the void ray fry my hydra like some pan cakes.

so after that, I find reapers aren't that scary after all. tongue.gif
ReWeR
post Aug 25 2010, 05:26 PM

Foreveralone
******
Senior Member
1,715 posts

Joined: Sep 2004
From: KL


QUOTE(raylee914 @ Aug 25 2010, 05:21 PM)
hydra own void ray(without charge)....
*
that's what I thought also ... but the truth is void ray quite powerful vs land unit lar ... the void ray charge when my hydra busy targeting the collosus.

you might say why don't you go for muta? but from my experience, if they scout it, they will switch to stalker + some phoenix ... which also fry muta very good. muta cost quite many gas, it's hard to rebuild if they wipe out my muta ...
ReWeR
post Aug 25 2010, 05:41 PM

Foreveralone
******
Senior Member
1,715 posts

Joined: Sep 2004
From: KL


just because some pro players lose using Zerg, then suddenly everyone conclude Zerg is the weakest race in the universe.

I'm still quite enjoy using Zerg no matter it wins or lose in any competition, since myself is just a casual player. I'm not saying the game is perfectly balance, but Zerg wasn't that weak as most other ppl see it.

If you think reapers are flawless, then why don't you start to use Terran and kick Zerg player's ass (such as me) using reapers? Then you will enjoy the fruit of victory.
ReWeR
post Aug 25 2010, 07:26 PM

Foreveralone
******
Senior Member
1,715 posts

Joined: Sep 2004
From: KL


QUOTE(LoNeLy-Zhai @ Aug 25 2010, 06:20 PM)
@ReWeR : A few reapers don't bring much trait to Zerg when terran usually use them just to harass the zerg's mineral line. But when a terran mass reapers just to finish you off your units/base, I don't think you stand any chance to pull it off. Even if you play safe being just 1 Base and manage to stop the reaper rush, the terran would most probably had expo done already. And when zerg's eco is lower than his opponent, it's a instant result of telling you that you'll lose, or maybe just with the low chance of winning the game.
*
How often we gonna vs those gosu Terran player? Not much right?

I'm pretty sure there will a patch to fix this.

But overall it still doesn't change my perception on Zerg that it is strong in early game and weak in late game.

I wish Blizzard can make muta and hydra stronger in next patch tho tongue.gif


Added on August 25, 2010, 7:29 pmHow come nobody discuss about Terran's ghost?

I seldom see ghost when playing vs Terran tho ...

But in 'theory', I always thought ghost's snipe ability can wipe out entire zerg forces easily since zerg units are all biological.

This post has been edited by ReWeR: Aug 25 2010, 07:29 PM
ReWeR
post Aug 26 2010, 02:17 PM

Foreveralone
******
Senior Member
1,715 posts

Joined: Sep 2004
From: KL


anyone ever bother to research carrier ability for overlord?

200m 200g not cheap wei ... i was thinking to drop speelings on opponent expansion ... but scare off by the research price ...
ReWeR
post Aug 26 2010, 02:30 PM

Foreveralone
******
Senior Member
1,715 posts

Joined: Sep 2004
From: KL


QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 26 2010, 02:21 PM)
hehe. no time to research. possible for long games la but i prefer my games to end quick. m and g good for units.
*
I do notice zerg not much things to upgrade ... most ppl juz pump units none stop ... but i see computer, they always make evolution chamber one ...

QUOTE(evofantasy @ Aug 26 2010, 02:24 PM)
baneling drops on tanks as done by artosis (day9daily)
*
probably it's good ... but 1 baneling cost 50m 25g ... expensive T_T
ReWeR
post Aug 26 2010, 03:13 PM

Foreveralone
******
Senior Member
1,715 posts

Joined: Sep 2004
From: KL


QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 26 2010, 02:38 PM)
i think what i find most difficult in early game is the balance between drone, combat units and overlords - having minimal resources, 3 larvae.

go drone. more resource, less combat.
go combat, less resource.
go overlord, less either the above.

but normally i put priority on overlord, or at least when i'm pretty close to food limitation.

on the plus side, i like that i can group all hatchery and build drone, overlord and combat units. biggrin.gif all from same place.
*
plus side is also the down side of zerg ... in the heat of combat ... u have to constantly remind yourself go back to hatchery and cast spawn larvae spell... else you not enough larvae for your next army.

if you play all races, you will notice zerg in sc2 is the least upgrade one.
ReWeR
post Aug 26 2010, 04:30 PM

Foreveralone
******
Senior Member
1,715 posts

Joined: Sep 2004
From: KL


QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 26 2010, 04:12 PM)
till now i haven't make any queen.
*
you are a dead meat if you don't use queen doh.gif

against any decent zerg player and you are bye bye.

queen + zergling dominate early game mang ...
ReWeR
post Aug 27 2010, 05:58 PM

Foreveralone
******
Senior Member
1,715 posts

Joined: Sep 2004
From: KL


QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 27 2010, 05:16 PM)
cheh IRC issit yeah i from broodwar era but i no join IRC wan.
*
he mean in the SC1 multiplayer screen you can create something like IRC channel. They have a chat room system which similar with IRC.
ReWeR
post Mar 8 2011, 02:37 PM

Foreveralone
******
Senior Member
1,715 posts

Joined: Sep 2004
From: KL


QUOTE(smartleader @ Mar 8 2011, 01:33 PM)
Serious? Terran would eat you alive then.
*
he mean when vs zerg, not terran.

but if opponent saw ur baneling n mass roach or muta, also die.
ReWeR
post Aug 26 2011, 11:52 AM

Foreveralone
******
Senior Member
1,715 posts

Joined: Sep 2004
From: KL


For me Banelings are difficult to use ... and roach are slow and bulky ...

so end up I always use zergling + hydra ... it makes myself pretty much predictable ...

 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0169sec    0.45    7 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 30th November 2025 - 08:53 AM