Hello men and women gathered in the name of arts. I've been browsing through threads about graphics and designing course and most have recommended The One Academy College is well-rounded which trains you to hone your drawing techniques. I also heard the standard there is higher which can be struggling for some, but the rewards certainly fruitful.

I'm only 17 which i'm taking SPM this year , and well yes i have a passion and liking for beautiful colors and art. I'm very much interested in Interior Designing and Architecture, or even Multimedia Designing. Most probably enrolling in TOA, so i'm wondering if i can enquire a few questions from you seniors first .

Firstly,
How much is the fees for Diploma, Degree, Foundation? Seriously i have no idea =x. It would be nice to have someone list it down for me because i'm not financially well-equiped!

Secondly,
What do they TEACH there? The syllabus/subjects?

Thirdly,
Can anyone tell me more about Interior Designing and Multimedia Designing? (yes i'm noob!)

Fourthly,
Do i need to train up my drawing skills and photoshopping skills before entering?

It would be nice if you guys could share a bit her and there!

I'm sorry for this long and draggy post, but venturing into arts has always been my dream and the effort and hardwork to create something original really is something beautiful!

Thank you very much, will continue checking back!

This post has been edited by booblegum: May 17 2008, 03:39 PM

erm diploma cost 100k++
my fren studying ther"
u wont have time for anyting else when semester starts"
keep on doing work till late at night 4am to pass up work" no dota..
but like u say it's fruitful"
just my 2 cents'

100K for Diploma? Wow.. can you divide it into year basis? Then i can calculate much more easily!

Hahha don't worry about games, i QUIT! SPM IS COMING! Oh well, what's needed more than commitment when it comes to assignments?

If you are taking interior design, you will use Autocad and other 3D applications more often. Illustrator & Photoshop not much. But different colleges have different syllabus, so it's hard to tell.

TOA Diploma course cost RM100K+? Lu sot ah? RM50K lare.

All courses have different fees. Digital Animation is the most expensive if I'm not mistaken(I know cause I'm taking it now). For more info you can try toa.edu.my .

They guide you, share their experience with you here in TOA. Most of the time you'll have to learn stuff yourself / do your own research, afterthat look for the lecturer/tutor and let them guide you, so that you'll be on the right track. Most of the subjects are practical, only few are theory. For example the LAN subjects.

Again, for more info you can try toa.edu.my . Interior design is pretty obvious, you design houses / buildings and etc. Multimedia is mostly vid editting, flash, website designing, creating vids, and etc, you'll be learning some html/java in this course too, I think.

No, you don't have to train your drawing skills or whatever skills, but its better if you did / or at least know some of the basics. Most of the time you'll learn loads when going through an assignment.

Of course, like what rickrick said, no games, no nothing. Most of your social life will probably be spent with your TOA classmates. It is work work work when you step in this college. Sleepless night is not really guaranteed, it depends on how much you slack / procrastinate. If you can work all day without any interference, you'll prolly be able to sleep at night.

=)

haha~,degree is 86k(3+1)
if go overseas....72k only 1 year,include all,hostel or wat...except,daily cost~^^

fees
well it's been posted up there
for the 1st year
what they teach you is the basic
from designing to fine arts(foundation year in TOA is very hard)
not meant to scare you
but seriously you need to spend more time on your work more than play
basically,you have no time to play at all

it would be good if you train up now
so that you can do work faster when they teaches you

I've heard so much about working hard and having sleepless nights, but i guess it's a good form of practice for the real world and the pressure out there !

Well i'm not one who loves to play, okay maybe i am but i guess it's about prioritising right!

Thank you everyone for the replies! For the fees list too .

And Xiven's wonderful thoughts that helped me a lot!

Keep em coming!

nothing in life is easy dude. i think it might suprise you that multimedia student learn stuffs on their own most of the time. the technology and styles evolves way to fast for lecturers to teach them to you. sleepless night is the norm but when you are having fun doing artwork it ain't so bad.

and they say art subject is easy. yeah right? as most of the above posters will confess its ain't that easy chump!

I agree on the multimedia part, I myself picked up a few stuff regarding multimedia. Sleepless nights isn't normal if you're driving to college, its pretty dangerous. =x

And yes, I confess, art isn't easy, you need alot of critical thinking/ideas, most of the time you'll be spending on is actually on the idea than executing it. But that depends on the subject too.





Our assignments are very time consuming, especially when you're still in the "basics-zone" and "I-am-stuck-zone". For example, when you start your foundation course, there'll be this subject called Figure Studies, you'll have to do 4 portraits and deadline is in 1 week. If you're hardworking, you'd probably spend 4~6 hours on 1 piece.

Though, I think they changed the format to 1 piece per week for my juniors, lucky people. >.>

Well, this is my point of view from my experience. Some ppl might think otherwise.

yep
they changed it into one pcs per week
according to my coursemate
(i left TOA btw)

Do TOA's lecturer teach coding for webpage? eg html, css, action script etc. Is that in the syllabus?

that will be the major year for multimedia design

Figure drawing is definitely not a 1 hour work. Need a few hours to get it done.

Pro = 2 - 3 hours

Beginner = 5 hours or even more



Last time I need to do 2 pcs weekly. Everyweek 2 different figure drawings. If the one that has been rejected, have to redo and bring it along next week, so 3 pcs.

Hahahahaha, I must say drawing is the hardest, lulz! Driving me nuts the entire semester. But until the last 2 weeks I did see some improvement in drawing.

The rest are kacang putih, like color fundamentals and etc.

Btw, not only TOA workload is heavy, some other colleges too.

When you kena pressure you will learn something from there.

interior? well you better hope you are lucky. cause at my batch, not many people choose that subject, therefor no class open for interior and those few who wanted to study interior went some place else.

---

Added on May 19, 2008, 5:29 pmyes. and very basic. you need to learn yourself for more advance coding.
For actionscript i think they still teaching AS2?
can someone there confirm on this?

This post has been edited by [+]: May 19 2008, 05:30 PM

For my batch, I heard most, if not all of the chinese ed[no offence] went for interior. (-5,6,7?)

I'm not really sure though.

I'm from TOA, basically you do need to brush up your photoshop skills and drawings skills because the lecturer there will teach you. but its an extra point for you if you have the strong basic for these. You need to work hard by the way. because when u see someone artwork is better than u. u will hide yours. haha. that happens to me bro. you need alot of practice. cannot be lazy. if not u will end up retake resit or the border line student. =) good luck

2 piece per week bro. I'm doing foundation right now

I had been in the CG line for 12 years now. When-ever there are some kid ask me if its good to go into this line. I will ask them "What do u want in your life?

1) Money?
2) Job satisfaction?
3) Flexible working Life

If your answer is number 1, sorry, art in Malaysia wont make you rich (May be 1 in a 1000 will get rich) after 5 years you may be able to get 3-4K, but to break the 5K barrier is difficult, then to break the 10k barrier is almost impossible. Unless:

1) U start your own studio (U dont need a lot of money to start, but u need a lot of money to survive)
2) U are good and lucky to get a good boss and u are the head of department or supervisor or something (Only 1 or 2 in a company, and has to be a big company)
3) Freelance (None-stable income + PITA to collect money)

And if your answer is number 2, sorry also. Becasue 80% of the time, what u do is not what u like. Changes after changes, u will end-up with the version that u dont like, perhaps u will start to hate it.

If your answer is number 3, LOL. Almost all studios now require u to work late, and guest what? U still have to go into the office the next morning. U work till 3 last night? may be u can be late for 1 or 2 hours. But what is 1 or 2 hours compare to working till 3 AM.


So if for those who like art and CG, just remain it as a hobby. When ppl told u that making your hobby as your career is fun. he is bullshitting u. U want money? Go study business, economy, Oil & Gas/ Aerospace Engineering, doctor, lawyer or even a start your own business nor matter how small it is.


U want job satisfaction? Well depends what u like most. U like Flexible working hour, become a sales-man, insurance/property/direct-sales agent. u will have plenty of time.

Trust me... youngman, before its too late. Dont waste your 3 years and 60K fees in this line. its not worth it. Trust me...

Can earn a lot of money only when you run your own design company.

And yet u won get very rich. Perhaps only 30% of the studio here making money, some can only cari makan, and some barely survive.

bro, why do u have to come out with such statement la bro. i just started not long ago u know.

harlo...i graduated from TOA too.... luckily i still can survive in CG industry. Honestly TOA consider best in local ald. of caz, there is still got a lot of spaces to improve( if they want )

I saw some one said art cant make money. duhhhh..... art do make money , in fact what rubbish also do make money. It's juz depends how well u can read the demanding from your audience... Use ur creativity wisely and please remind yourself. Creativity can be anything, anytime, and anywhere.

Art industry at local still consider bright no worry everyone. You have to push hard to polish yourself then only can make a bright future after graduate. Of caz you still need to workhard after graduated.

i think my TOA life is pretty happy becaz i got very passionate classmates.

gambateh everyone !!!

why you talk like lecturer ar?

sengseng83
how much u earning bro?

do i talk like lecturer? lolz.... i just wish to let you all know the point aren't what career can only make rich, but what attitude you have.

how much I earn? this is quite private but i can tell you i can survive with only my salary and yet i still can give my parents money. saving? of caz...

i juz 2 years sumthing working experience. i think for current is important to get more working experience. Then i will only start to think how 2 build up my business? or brand....

Hello good sir !

I read everything you said and of course i've considered what you've said even before i started this thread. I've did a salary check on Graphic Designers, Interior Designers on jobstreet.com and it seems the average pay is 2-3k per month? That's pretty low. VERY LOW.

I love money, who doesn't? But it's not the ultimate thing i seek in life. Because well, i guess i'm not one who pursues materials or spend a million dollars on my family and houses and lands and properties etc. To me, i really have not much of an interest in that.

Well job satisfaction, well.. of course i want that. That's the reason why i'm enquiring about studying arts and all. Because it's true that 80% of people work for the sake of money and they do not enjoy it. So i don't want to be that 80%, i know it may sound naive. But this is my dream i'm talking about. It's my lifetime career, i'm not gonna spend my entire life running a company, doing business, perhaps cheating and backstabbing just to sit the highest position.

Being flexible is never an option if you wanna succeed in life right? Maybe i haven't experienced working till 3AM or so, but i'm currently in my school's Editorial Board and yes assignments to create layouts and stuff occur VERY frequently. I know i cannot compare to working till 3AM, but it's a starting point and it's good training .

I really thank you for your advise! It's not that i'm not ignoring it, or denying it's truth, but.. doing something i want, and going for the best college, and spending my whole life into a career, it really takes much thoughts and research, basically something i don't want to regret. I don't want to end up like 80% of people doing something they don't like. Or maybe someday when i retired, then i use my money to do Graphics and all, it's quite a waste to me.



Yes and i absolutely agree with having the right attitude. I think passion, attitude and talent are the 3 basic needs i guess . With all that comes perseverance and hardwork!

And thank you everyone for your honest and encouraging comments and replies!

This post has been edited by booblegum: May 27 2008, 12:07 PM

May be i shouldn't post it at the first place. I understand your situation, as i had gone through it myself. Ppl said the same thing to me 15 years ago, and i react just like u. But after so many years in this industry, i see some ppl in the same industry doing good, but majority of us are still suffering from the low pay, long working hour nightmare. and i dont see there is anyway to change this in the near future. Art can make money, but not in Malaysia, not even in Singapore, and Hong Kong and China. If u manage to work in Australia or NZ or even better, US or Europe, by all means go for it. But its not easy to get a job there especially in this line.

After 12 years of doing what i love initialy, i started to think, am i doing this for myself, or for the client. Should i be so selfish to let my family suffer with me? How many hours can i see my wife and kid a day, or perhaps how many hours a week. Everyday when i go to work, my wife ask me if i am coming back for dinner, i can not give her an answer. And she ask me what time roughly do i come back from work, i cant give her an answer. And she ask again if i am coming at all that day, i cant give her an answer. I am like a police, i dont know if i am able to go home that day every morning when i step out of my house. U may think i bullshit, i am telling the truth, i live like that everyday. even on weekend when i need to go to my wife home town i have to turn off my phone, so they cant find me. I use to stay in the office for 2 weeks with all my cloths, underware and pillow. After that 2 weeks my girl friend break off with me. And i am not the only one that experienced this. If anybody already in this industry who never experience this, its either u are working in a not so happening company, or your boss is too good.

Try ask ppl who are working in Silver Ant or MFX how is their working life, and u will be surprise. I know we are all doing what we like, but the client and your boss use that as an advantage, to make u work like a dog. U may be willing to take it for the sake of love for art, u may be thinking money is not important, u may think that 14 working hours is nothing. but how about your wife, how about your kid? How about your old and lonely parent? Are they suppose to suffer together with u, just because your love of art? If u are 21, fine no worries. 25? Still good. 30? Start thinking about what u want. 35? 40? 45?

Go to any animation studio or post production and see how many ppl there are over 35. In this line if u are over 35, u better be someone, other wise u are dead. At least 50% ppl switch line before 35, and that is if u are lucky. Dont ask me how many ppl over 35 that i had meet in this line. But i am sure everyone of them had a sad story. And i even know some is over 45, and their career is over, its gone. And they dont know what to do, because thats everything he knows. And he had 3 kids to take care of, and the eldest son is going to college. His salary may be 10K, so it would be 120K a year. How much do the college charge u? 20K for a year. Thats 2 months of his salary. How about other son, they are going to Uni soon. How abot house loan? Car loan? May be your son need a transport, a bike? a car? Well, do the calculation.

For those of them keep saying this line is good, this line is fun, this line can make money. U are either too naive, too un-experience, or u are working for the college. Yes, art can make money. But not everybody. So if u have a rich daddy to give u the money to start a studio, u are lucky. If not, u are just a slave to your boss, to your client, and to art. Think about it, not for now, but for the rest of your life. Think what u want to do when u are 40. And come back here and tell me.

I see, i see.. must be hard for you. Im sorry really.

I think that what you said is a very logical way of putting things. Basically that's how most people think. That the things you like to do, you thought would be enjoyable turned into your only source of survival and income, and things become so different and it becomes a burden for yourself and the people around you too. Hmmm.

You see, the only thing i'm afraid of venturing into this industry, is having a family. I'm quite a simple man myself. But like you said, your wife, your kids - they all mean a lot as well. It becomes a burden, sort of.

I don't think i will start my career (as a designer) in Malaysia. Probably NZ or Australia. I know that Malaysia hasn't come to a stage where people start accepting all sorts of arts and designs and are willing to spend a sum on it. Plus the fact that, arts is not a necessity. Unlike food, business, which will continue to run no matter how the world changes.

I know that this career is totally risky, and you might lose out in terms of competition and even more, wealth. But sir, what if i think i'm one of those people that can exceed the others and succeed in the arts industry? I know it sounds very boastful and overly confident, but what if, arts is what i do best in life? Unlike business, and marketing, i know i have no talent in that.

Then where does my talent and skills go to? Should i abide these gifts?

Yes, i am going to arts institutes, firms whatever to check out there and ask the people there about their jobs etc.

I think i wouldn't waste so much time replying what you said, it would be nice if you could private message me your MSN Messenger contact, so i can get in touch with you and have you share me a bit of experience and thoughts.

Thank you .

Mr Tong1774 : Whatever you have said, I can see it is from your experience and the people you've met in your life. But you can't stop the fact that some people's interests are in this line. If everyone took your advice, in the end there would be no artist, no 3D movies, no good advertisements and etc. New ideas these days, I believe they come from the younger individuals/generation, as for the more experienced ones, they prolly ran out of brain juice.

I do not deny they fact that most artists will be throwing their lives away for the sake of art, but if they don't do it, who will?


Booblegum : Art, like everything else, is a necessity today, like food and business. Imagine a food brand like magee mee selling their products, there is always an artist behind the scene to design its packaging and logo. Can you imagine buying your magee mee which comes in a grey plain plastic?

Even business, without an artist in the background, how are they gonna advertise themselves with horrible looking brochures, or their websites? Where are they gonna get their logo from?

Even for movies, if there is no artist in the background, how are they gonna make their special effects? How are they gonna present posters?

So, imo, I won't deny the fact that we are living at a time where art is an equal importance to everything else in life. It's practically everywhere, even when stepping foot into a shopping complex, just imagine everything around you were just boring / bland / so very dead.

Just my 2 cents.

Ok basically in this line, or perhaps all other area. There are people who do it, and people who sell it. And believe it or not, 90% of the time, the people who sell it took most of the credit, or put it in the simple form- the people who sell it get more money than the people who do it. So... ask yourself, are you a salesman? Are you good in presenting your work to your client? Or i can say most of the time you need to bullshit. Sad but true, even though i don't like to believe it.

If u are those ppl that can do great work, but u can't talk or dont like to talk, then u will be forever a "backroom boy". The client may like your work, but most of the time the client don't even know u. What they know is XXX company doing a great job, and not YYY from XXX company is doing a great job. So in this case, if u are leaving the company due to low salary, your boss may or may not ask u to stay. And even if he do, dont expect mirical. why, because they know u are good, but the amount that he need to pay u, he may be able to hire 2 to 3 fresh-grat, and he believe he can use quantity to overcome experience. there are exception, but rare.

So if u are planning to further study in oversea, dont come back. The amount u earn is not worth spending that kind of money to study oversea. And if u work in oversea after uni, u wont feel like coming back and work here. Mostly because of the different working style, the whole big enviroment, and also the amount of money u get. So it comes down to the same question, what do u want to do? U want to settle down in oversea? How about your parents? Girlfriend? If u plan to come back, what do u want to do? Save some money in oversea and come back do business? Got a few friends did this and end up lost all their money. So here is the fact:

1) Do it only when u dont give a shit about money, family and u dont want a life.
2) Do it if u dont have to worry about money. I knew a friend who's father give him a million to start a studi after grat. god knows if he is making any money.
3) Do it if your father own a business that may need your skill, but young ppl now days dont like family business.
3) Do it only when u know that u won have to work in asia. i meant the whole asia. Including Japan & Korea.

I know it sound depress, but if u really wanna venture into this line, u need to be prepare. and i still don't encourage ppl to join this line. Unless u are in the list of what i just said. Good luck. will PM u my MSN, but i dont online everyday.

---

Added on May 27, 2008, 4:52 pmIf he really like art & willing to give up everything for it, then what i said wont influnce his dicision. And if he listen to what i said and give up, then its better to give up now then later, which for sure he is going to face in his career. What i am telling u guys is the truth, that your lecturer may not tell u, or may not know, so that u know what u are going to face. I had meet so many fresh-grat that end up dissapointed with what they are doing, which aren't what's in their mind at the first place.

U like doing illustartion? How many illustartor are suffering now? Try go ask Stanley or other pioneer in illustartion, if u happen to know them. Stanley studio main business are not illustration any more, but doing 3D walkthrough for developer. And u can go ask him why, he will be happy to tell u. And how many 3D fresh-grat are happy to do 3D walkthrough? But thats where the main source of income. u dont wanna do it, there are 100s more studio willing to do, with even lower price. So what i am doing is not ignoring the fact that some of u like art and has the passion for it, thats great. But i am trying to tell them, when u are in the business, u may lost what u once passionate for. afetr 14 hours of work, i dont think u want to do, or have time to do what u like, or so called "Own Project".

So if u really have passion for art, u dont have to make it your career. u can work as a salesman, get home early, and do some painting or build some 3d model and have fun with it. It will make your passion stays beacause u do it because u like to do it, not somebody want u to do, and do it the way they like.

This post has been edited by tong1774: May 27 2008, 04:52 PM

I completely agree with everything you said. Not only you need to have good skills in art, but also in communication to promote yourself. And yes, it also depends on what you wanna do with your life.

But since this is a topic regarding TOA, the moment you step foot in here, it's already like the beginning of whatever Tong said before. Classes will prolly be early in the morning, 9am or so, if you come late you'll face the consequences, and because of the assignments load, you'll literally lock youself in your room and will prolly be working till really really late or having no sleep at all, and still have to attend classes the next day.

As for me now, all I do is just my assignments. My daily life is basically go to college early in the morning, finish classes in the afternoon/evening, go back home bath and take power nap, wake up do assignments until god knows when[makan time included also la =.=]. Then repeat the same thing again. Feel like a robot. And not all the assignments are stuff I like to do, some of them I hate doing.

So yeah, this is basically the life of a TOA student.





I don't believe that artists are the only ones suffering in this world. Even bussinessmen can go bankrupt or many who are still in poverty. I believe every job has their pros and cons, not particularly when you become a doctor you'll bcome rich, with the growing amount of competition today, surviving WILL be difficult regardless of ones profession or job.

My dad's a businessman who owns a resort, yet he doesn't want me to enter his career line because it's difficult. And the fact that my dad has a resort doesn't immediately make my family rich, my dad is actually struggling to support me and my sister. So yeah, I hope you get my point.

This post has been edited by Xiven: May 27 2008, 05:05 PM

So u have to do what u dont like even in the college, imagine all this thing is going to be double or triple when u start working. including the amount of work, the amount of frustration, the number of sleepless night etc... So if u can't take college life, it will be worst when u start working in this line. The only different is in college, if u dont do your work u will failed the subject. But in working life, u will get fired, or worst- being black-listed by all studio, and it happens.

---

Added on May 27, 2008, 5:26 pmI can feel u, but what i am saying is majority. I know in every line there are good and bad. Just that in our line, the things u may get, doesnt worth all the efford. Like a sales man, if he is good, he manage to sell lots of goods, and he will be paid accordingly (except being con by boss) and get rich. But for a designer or artist, u may be good, but how to justify that? Would your boss pay u more if your work got awarded in some film fest? U see... i know they are risk and headache in every line, but at least in other line, u dont have to work like that long hour.

U are a contruction worker? U get pay for OT, and i dont believe there is any constuction worker that have to work more than 24 hours none stop (My record is none sleep, none shower for 5 days, and barely eat). U work in a big corporation, u work 9 to 5, sunday confirm no need to work, lots of benefits. U work as insurance/property agent? Flexible working hour, no need to go office everyday, can go cinema 3 in the afternoon, and the more u do, the more u earn.

But what do we got? I work 8 hours and 24 also get the same pay. My company get a 20K project or 200K project i still get the same amount. I work for 12 years in this line, only got yearly bonus once. So if u are those who is looking for bonus, dont work in this line. My department 10 ppl i get the same amount. when 5 of them left and i have to cover their work, i still get the same pay.

Well... if after all this u still din get what i say, then i guest i will give up. But what i can say id good luck. 70% hardwork, 30% luck. Thats what i can say.

Oh btw: U may misunderstand my statement. I am not saying art is shit, art is useless. what i am saying is, in Malaysia, people do not appretiate it, or they do not willing to pay for something that they appretiate, and those people are the one who pay your salary. So if u are working in oversea, mainly the "Mat Salleh" country, this problem may not be an issue. But now in those country, they are facing other issue. Due to the increasing production cost, most of their production will be assign to asia country, mainly china. and because of this, the amount of artist they need had been greatly decrease. And even if they are hiring, they will consider their own citizen first, then mat salleh from other country, then only asian. This is their goverment policy to protect their own industry. Good for them, bad for us. And when they assign their project to asia, those studios that wanted to take those job will start to counter each other in terms of pricing. And the end result is lower production cost, and lower average salary.

So if u want to work in oversea, the easist is to stay there after uni, since most of the country allow u to stay for another year or so. And if u manage to work there, work hard (And believe me, its not that hard compare to mat salleh), then your boss may help u to extend your permit. And if u stay there for 5 years (Depemds on country), u will get a PR, and then u can work in what ever company in that country without permit problem. i got a friend working in Microsoft as a department manager, and he can never come back and work here due to varies reason. So please take my words, i normally dont type so much.

This post has been edited by tong1774: May 27 2008, 05:50 PM

Hahaha i can see that you write quite a lot. But believe me, i am taking every piece of word you typed down!

I wish not to extend another long post as it might affect other readers from reading such long posts! But yes we'll talk further in MSN Messenger .

It's a wonderful opportunity to receive such valuable words from experienced people on this line. And thank you so much for taking your time!

Xiven, i've heard people saying about TOA and how the students are. I think i'm quite prepared to step into that sort of life haha! Well, it's better than paying a sum of money for a college that doesn't provide you any work/assignments right?

Thanks ! I'd like to hear more from everyone!

May i know where u come from? i meant which state.

I see, I believe I've learnt something from this thread too. =)

wow, so many replies make me have to spend some times to read.

i think there is nothing wrong or right. Its still back to yourself what you want in the end. I a bit greedy because I always fight for balancing my dreams and money. I don't need big money but no need to make myself look like so suffering in survive. I need to chase my dream too. May b im still young compare with Mr tong but i always believe 1 thing. You trust yourself and fight for yourself.

There is so tough in CG line i know esspecially in TVC lines. We need to keep searching something to motivate ourselves to continue our career. Positive is the key and there is nothing can stop you to achieve something IF YOU WANT .

We face the reality mean time we fight for our dream. Thats my life concept.

Ya, i am old. Times fly...

arrhhh i not mean that, i just want to say I'm not so experience compare with you....sorry make u misunderstanding

LOL... its ok. I am old and i admit that. nothing wrong with that.

this is so true

I really hope u guys who plan to venture into this business, be prepare. Think about the future, not just what u like now. As long as u dont feel regret 10 or 20 years from now.

mr tong, mind to share your salary as reference???
roughly the amount.

My salary is not a good reference because i am not doing it any more. But before i left this line, i am getting 9K as an animation director. 9K is not a lot consider a fresh oil/gas engineer or traineer pilot get about 5K. And after 12 years they can go up to 20K or even more. 9K can get me a house, and a moderate car, thats it. U cant afford to go europe for holiday. May be china or other part of asia, not even Japan. Lets see:


Hosue loan: RM2080+
Condo maintanence fee: RM180
Chkai pintu: RM300+- (Yearly)
Water + Lectric + Streamyx +Phone: RM400+-
Personel insurance: RM150+
Car Insurance + Roadtax: RM800+- (Yearly)
Car loan: RM1200+
Fuel: RM300+-
Toll: RM100+-
Parking: RM100
Car maintainence: RM150+- (Every 3 months)
Rokok: RM8.20 X 30= RM260+
DVDs: RM50+-
Food: RM500+-
Occasionally mamak or beer: RM100+-
Cinema once a week: RM40+ (Monthly)
Misc: RM100+-
Clothes and shores : RM500+- (Yearly)
Hair cut: RM20+-
Condom and pron: RM50+-
Yearly vacation: RM3000+- (Yearly)
Gadget like phone, computer hardware etc: RM500 (Yearly)

This is what i can think of right now, i am sure there are more hidden expenses that i missed. But u got an idea how much i spend monthly, and deduct by how much i earn. And 9K is not in full amount, u need to deduct EPF and income tax. And the list above is only for me alone. If including my wife and kids some items have to be double or triple. And if my wife doesnt work, i need to cover all her make up, dress, healthy products etc. And for kids, milk powder for the younger one, pampers. The older one education, school activities items, pocket money, or tuition fees.

So now tell me, if u were me, how are u going to support your family? And if u have both parents retired and depends on you financially? And none of the items i listed up there are really exclusive, except may be rokok for Rm260+ and occasionally minum. And even if i save all that, its not going to help much. When i do not own a house or a car, or if i do not have a family with 2 kids, and parents staying with me. If i am 10 years younger, i will like what i am doing. But i just can't. Its very sad, i know. Even with my position and experience, and 9K monthly income, it just aren't enough.

This is not just for ppl doing art, but almost all other area. But like i said, when u are in art line, u dont even have time to compensate your family for all that. So if someone can enlight me the future path of art carrer in Malaysia, i would like to heard it.

fair enough. whats ur occupation now then? retired?

---

Added on May 28, 2008, 5:48 pmbtw, rokok 8.20x30 . heavy smoker.

This post has been edited by nikeshock: May 28 2008, 05:48 PM

Sometimes RM8.20 X 50, or 60 depends if that month is busy or not. Smoke a lot when u work late. As for me, now i am no more in this line, doing own business which has nothing to do with art. And i am just a small share holder. But at least u get what u deserve.

good luck to you then. and to myself. who is still studying at the one academy. =)

wah liao....wat a harsh time to be one....
ei mr tong after c wat u wrote n others ah...
nw feel damn tension
shitzzzz

This post has been edited by mr.samurai: May 29 2008, 12:32 AM

hi there.. i am toa student and i can say that i completely agree wif mr.tong said.. everything he said is quite true.. im still studying and i can say that i can feel his word.. im now also quite regreting taking art line and planning to switch to business.. btw, im at interior design major.. and i have no life.. all my frens said college life fun and they just playing everyday.. but me.. man, dont even mention it..

Thanks for reading all my long post. Hope this can help young people decide what they want to do. If anybody want to know more about this industry, i meant everything, i will try my best to help, or at least give you some guide.

Animation obviously can earn more than Graphic or Multimedia designers because its 3D, 3D work always fetch at higher price. My this animation lecturer told us that, a 30 seconds animation can earn freaking a lot of money, and if there are group projects going on, each project can earn about RM20K, then divide among themselves.

I can say that, I'm definitely not going to do design only till I retire.

It will be useful for me in future.

A 30sec tvc can fetch from 20K to 80K in Malaysia market, which 80K is on the high side, and now days not many tvc can fetch 80K for any studio in Malaysia. So let say client has 60K for the 3D production cost. When this project goes to freelancer, the client or agency will expect a "cost cut" to may be 30 to 40K.

So this project require 4 animators to work for the duration of 4 weeks including pre-pro, production and sometimes the post-pro. If u only have one project at a time due to timing or other reason, each person will get 10K in a month. Yes sounds good. But now days not many client willing to pay u 50% before the start of the production, and u may only recieve 30% halfway of the production, thats 2K+ for each. And by rules they should pay u the remaining by the time of material delivery. But many fail to do so, and they will start to talk to u about the next project. Because u want to get their next project, u won chase him too hard for the money worrying that he may get pissed off. So u continue with the next project. If u are lucky, u may get another 30% next month, so they still own you 40%, and god bless u for that remaining 40%.

And imagine after 3 jobs in 2 to 3 months time, u only recieved may be 9K for each person. And then they will start to nitpicking and find an excuse to look for other freelancer, or sometimes even without any excuse. And they will do the same thing to other freelancers in the industry. With every job they skip the 40%, after 10 job its a big money. So how many months can u stand with 2K+ monthly? And tvc is not like school project, they are not as kind as your lecturer.

So after 6 months to one years, due to the financial problem, or lack of project. The team will split. And u will have to start all over again. I use to work as a freelancer for 4 years. Some times i can earn 20K a month, some times nothing. Some after 3 years still haven pay me the remaining 40%.

fark. i stepped into the wrong line now.

---

Added on May 29, 2008, 4:38 pmmr tong, am i dead now? lol. im going for advertising and graphic design. or maybe multimedia.

This post has been edited by nikeshock: May 29 2008, 04:38 PM

So u are in 3D now? Actually nor matter what u doing, as long as u are in art industry, u will face this problem. The only option i can see which is good for money.

1) Joint production house, work your way up as a commercial director, good money, flexible timing, most of the time have to bullshit, very stress & mostly screw up live, charge per job.

2) Joint production house, work your way up as a DOP (Director of Photography), good money, flexible timing, not as stress as director & have good live, but require good technical knowledge and no bullshit, charge per job.

3) Joint advertising agency (Big one), work your way up as script writter, creative director or executive producer. Good money, not so flexible timing, stress & politics, bullshit & PR a lot, not so much on technical side, a lot of lubang to get more money (I cant tell u how)

4) Get in-touch with insider of goverment department. Get job for all major projects, very good money, very flexible timing, very not stress, bloody a lot of bullshit & PR, no need technical knowledge, and sometimes dont even need capital.

Above is few ways of making big money, u can easily earn more than 100K a month. A famous director can get 30 to 40K for a 2 days shoot, but more time is needed for pre-pro and post. A damn good DOP can get 10 to 20K in a 2 day shoots, and he only has to work for that 2 days, may be 1 day location survey. And no need to attend pre-pro or post that often. As for agency, its very hard to say how much u can get, may be ranging from 10 to 50K a month, some times more, depends how much lubang u got. The one that really make big money is to get all those goverment projects which will cost millions.

But mind u, all the options above are not easy to achive, but if u really got passion, go for it, and u will be rewarded. But I notice that too late, cant change anything now.

This post has been edited by tong1774: May 29 2008, 06:44 PM

Hey tong,

I appreciate for what you share with us here. Thanks bro.

So currently you are working as a?

Mind telling a few big design firms in Malaysia? Googleit may not be accurate, so I need to ask from an experience person like you.

i am currently running my own business, its a trading company. As for big advertising agency in Malaysia, there are a few:

1) O & M - Currently the hottest one, but most of the ppl inside are not friendly except their creative department are ok. Very stress & politics. But got lots of lubang for "extra money"

2) Mccann Ericson - One of the best in Malaysia, there are more pro then O & M. Very stress & politics. But at least they dont play play with their job.

3) Leo Burnett - Very low profile recently, may not seems to have a lot of business, but most of their accounts are huge. And one of the best working enviroment, u feel like working in a 5 star hotel. Stress & politic not sure.

4) DY & R - Doing quite well, good benefits, 2 bonus in a year. Company trip went to Paris in one of those "Good" year. May not be as stress & politics like others, not sure since ppl in & out.

5) Saatchi & Saatchi - Nice team there, ppl are more friendly overall. Less stress & politics. But sometimes can be a bit un-pro. Mainly doing regional account for big client.

6) BBDO - Changed management couple of times, not sure how is condition recently.

Others like JWT, Bates, Dentsu, Grey etc are quite big as well. But from experience, smaller agency ppl are more friendly and less stress & politics. But u want to make big money, u have to venture into politics, AND SURVIVE! Good luck.

This post has been edited by tong1774: May 29 2008, 07:31 PM

yeah, more on graphic, illustrator, photoshop, packaging design. maybe abit of 3D. hope i can survive in the future. mind to share with me the lubang by pm me? =p
uncle tong, glad ur here to share ur experience with us. much appreciated.

I can't tell u what the lubang is, as u are still young & passionate, i don't want to corrupt your mind. Really. Its like a teaching a new driver how to do stunt. You will know it when you are in that position.

oh ic....got so many thing i dint knw..too naive...
thx mr tong....ur a advisor.....
but i want to ask ah...if i really get a job in the goverment la....
need anything ah....like knowing ppl inside...get project....or just sign in and get low salary working hour 9 to 5...

LOL i am not saying u should go in and work in the goverment department, even though your life can be quite relax in there, but pay very low. Unless u are working in those department that can earn your some extra money. I am saying u set up a company and take projects from them.

well im a TOA student...
i found tht what mr.tong said were all the facts....
i have lost most of passion in design, things have change when i know more about this lines, you really cant earn a lot but work as a slave.
I try to think why some of my lecturer willing to teach in TOA perhaps they have a more flexible time, i was too late to change course right now as i spend a lot of my parents money in it...
i think the only way now is work hard for me... i kind of regret why didnt pick a course that has a more stable income every month...
maybe most of the things i didnt think of it when i am still young thinking change when u think grow older.

Well being a lecturer has more stable income even though its not a lot, less stressful and do not require to work late that often. If u really want to venture into education, u should continue your study to at lease master degree, that will fetch you a better income when lecturing. But dont expect anything more than 8K, most lecturer start around 2.5K and work their way up. U may probaly get 5 to 6K if u are the course leader. And owning the college is a different story, but that will involve a lot of money and risk. But once everything work as it suppose to be, then the money will start to flow in, like what happen to Lim Kok Weng and The One.

This post has been edited by tong1774: May 30 2008, 11:16 AM

Sorry i'm not TOA student, but i already in the industry for 7 years. Yeah what Mr .Tong say is absolutely true. I'm been working my ass off for tiny bits of salary. Now still driving kancil. Dont expect overtime allowance, benefits, and get salary pay on time.(sometimes 2 months no salary). Bos will use alot of excuse and sweet talk hoping you will stay. When early 20s, of coz u guys are very passionate, fresh and your eye sight is still good. But when near 30's u will see the different story. You will get tired easily, your eye can't handle the strain and stress by looking on monitor, and i bet some of u might get gastric and migraine too like what i'm suffering it now. Sooner or later your clinical bill is more than what u earn. Yeah if really want to join this line better be somebody before 35's or you just ended up as Kuli. Or change to other industry, and do this art stuff as a hobby. Now i learning how to do business from my dad. Hoping can help him later. My happy time and fun is over, got to get serious now.

LOL.
I haven't graduate, but I feel like start to lose the passion in design already.
The foundation course make me feel sick, had to attend those class that I hate.

Wow 2 months no salary? So are they doing it often? My worst experience is during those bad years where some times salry will be late for 2 weeks, but never longer than that. My advise is leave that company, now there are tons of studio looking for animators. My friend who is an animator himself is setting up a studio. You or who ever interested can PM me. Heard from him that his offer is higher that market rate, dont expect a really big margin though, but at least 20 to 30% higher depend on your experience. He need both senior and fresh-grat. But i won't be working with him.

BTW, if your company is late in paying your salary, there is a possiblity they may 'Makan" your EPF and income tax if they deduct it from your salary monthly. Go check this 2, and if they do "makan", u can launch a report.

Hi Mr. 1774,
I have to agree with you on everything u've mentioned. I've been in the industry for 7 years.
Everything you've said is true and that's why I'm quite fed up with the unhealthy environment for animators in Malaysia. Anyway, last year when I was in a post production house. I've spent most of my time in the company and end up having some health problems.
Took an advice from friends to switch to video games industry. I've joined codemasters since april 2007 and I can say this is the best working environment I've ever experienced in Malaysia.
No need for late nights and I can be able to reach home on time. All I can say the life is getting alot more well balanced now.
So for TOA students, fret not. There's plenty of video games asset companies starting up in Malaysia.
The challenge in the job is actually the requirement to reach high quality work for every assets that we worked on. It has to be perfect from every angle before it can be sign off. Working hour wise is reasonable and most of the time we are not required to work on weekends.
Money wise, I think it's very reasonable for what they are offering in Malaysia.

Our boss is very generous that he allow us to play pool, video games (usually the latest) and company trips for us. There's even benefits to join an english class to improve our language.

From my experience working both in post production and video games. I can say post production evironment is alot more stressful than video games. Post production can earn alot more if u are running the business on ur own. video games has got higher requirement for skills, but less exploits in working environment. what u can expect in video games creation can be alot more enjoyable than post productions. Heard that gamebrains hired a cook to cook for their meals. MFX has got cook too. but difference is Gamebrains doesn't require u to work over night while MFX is very common to work late or over night.

Anyway, for the lubang thing. if u are in the industry long enough. there's for sure a chance for u to pull off the stunt.
for newbies pls don't expect for it yet until u have higher ability to be responsible for it.

If u've already picked this industry. Don't be regret and give up just yet. There's alot of talented artist in Malaysia that's earning heaps. So to get there u got to work really hard and be smart with ur work. (if u guys think i also talk like a lecturer, in fact I am. I'm a guest lecturer for TOA)

Tong1774, I really think we need an animator/artist union to fight for our rights.

btw, anyone wanted to look for a job in video games industry can send me a PM. I do some recruit during my free time.

Cheers.

This thread is becoming very interesting but also out of line with the original topic

But if the TS doesn't mind...

I have also just entered this industry and I am 27 (transitioned from Insurance) But I am not a creative, more on the producing side. I am a student of video production/ advertising. I guess I what I hope to learn from this thread is how to maintain and motivate my artists.


Keep on contributing (or maybe in a new separate thread)

LOL I don't mind really . You know, it's really good when you learn something from someone 10 or 20 years ahead of you!

Now everyone's just bluntly ranting and agreeing the facts of Mr. Tong xD!

But that's fine with me really, it's good to know more .

What u said about the post production & game industry is true. The reason of game industry being less stressful and better paid is because most of them are foreign investment, like codemaster, and gamebrain is consider half Malaysia since the boss are mat salleh. So yeah, if u want to join the game industry, be it now. Few years from now, a lot of game production will go to China, like what happen to long format now. Or when all this mat salleh company start to become more localise, they will start to lower the overall wages and other benifits to gian more benifits.

But bare in mind that not all game studio are paying as good as codemaster. And u must know the different between game and post production. As in post production u may have to involve in all aspect of the production like modelling, character setup, texture and lighting. But in game industry, u may be doing just modeling for cars for the whole year, or weapons or buildings. This may bored some of u, and its actually not very good for fresh-grat, as u may be too specialise in one thing and lost the rest.

And the same problem is, u will reach a limits in terms of salary, dont expect anything more than 8K unless u are doing a lot of freelance. And freelance will give u stress as well. LOL. But at least u got a stable income from full time job and do not have to worry too much even if its difficult to collect money for the freelance.

hey kfc, can u recommend me which course for me to major for my second year? cause basically i like all of em. and im not sure which major to choose now. we have to decide next semester..........
mrtong, any suggestion from u too?

oh ic mr.tong
thx for that answer...
but how many ppl will change their mind after reading all this??
will u get urself out of this line?

I am already out of this line

---

Added on May 31, 2008, 3:56 amI really dont know how to tell u. If u wanna do game, go for 3D. If u want to join agency, take multi media or design. If u wanna be a director, take mass com but i dont think TOA has this subject. Most director are either art base, or start as a crew, then become 2nd asistant camera, 1st assistant camera, then DOP then director. So depends what u wanna do my friend. Choose wisely.

This post has been edited by tong1774: May 31 2008, 03:56 AM

which is the most demanding??? i hope by the age of 28/29 can earn like erm, 5k and above? maybe 6k?

Demand keep changing once a while, now is 3D, 3 years from now i am not sure. 5k and above at 28? Its possible, all depends on yourself and luck. Some of my friends earning more than 10k as animation director, some still get around 4K, and they are all above 28.

icic, ok. btw ts. if u wanna study art and design. bear in mind that......the art materials price are killing me. we need to top up monthly if high usage. for example. one pencil set already cost rm 18 and one acrylic colour already cost rm 28. i use my own money to buy all these material and my monthly allowance is only 240. includes everything. makan. parking. toll. ktm. bus. and ART MATERIAL. mr tong. teach lubang la...let me earn extra money

Haha, you are still in foundation year only right?

Later have to spend even more. First week de I spent RM150, second week RM100 on art materials. I'm in DG, doing 2nd year term 1 now.

Heard from seniors, 1 term above, they had to spend rm300 on marker renders only. So yeah, first week they blew rm300++ de. XD

Foundation you don't really need to spent alot one actually.

the lecturer name lilly. screw her. like to waste our stuff

LOL, Liliy is teaching me too, and yes, she thinks money to us is water.

The name Lily sounds like a hot chick. So is she?

hahaha....if i run my dad business then i will be rich....but need study lar....and im interest in it....hope can cari money at design field

Sorry to spoil it all, but she's not. xD

sorry to disappoint you
but she's not
and i cant understand anything she said

Same to me also.
Dunno how to teach, wonder why TOA pay her every month

she like those weird things. as in 'special'

agree
which batch are you from?

CD 085. =D u?

New batch oh
CD075

haha yeah, new batch. just started few weeks ago. yours? senior. major at what course

075? What course you taking? I'm also 075.

i hate lily too she teaching me typo now...
dam she such an auntie for me >.>

LOL Lily! What the, that's a silly name. Like LULU only!
But okay i'll join everyone, LILY SUCKS.

Anyway you guys, you all wanna earn money so much in the arts and designs field right..? Then may i ask if you guys THINK you're talented and clearly have a passion for designing? Or money motivates you?

I read what mr. tong say, very very sad lah ! But i still see the "light", for some reason!

OH YEAH ONE MORE THING!

You all know any place (like arts institutes, studios etc.) where i can check out? You know, i just wanna see how they run the studio and institutes and see their works! Get to know this line a little bit better kinda thing? Thanks!

This post has been edited by booblegum: Jun 1 2008, 05:39 PM

LOL, so many ppl don't like lily here.
Many we can form an "ANTI-LILY" club

couldn't agree more
helena
btw used to be cd075-2