I had been in the CG line for 12 years now. When-ever there are some kid ask me if its good to go into this line. I will ask them "What do u want in your life?

1) Money?
2) Job satisfaction?
3) Flexible working Life

If your answer is number 1, sorry, art in Malaysia wont make you rich (May be 1 in a 1000 will get rich) after 5 years you may be able to get 3-4K, but to break the 5K barrier is difficult, then to break the 10k barrier is almost impossible. Unless:

1) U start your own studio (U dont need a lot of money to start, but u need a lot of money to survive)
2) U are good and lucky to get a good boss and u are the head of department or supervisor or something (Only 1 or 2 in a company, and has to be a big company)
3) Freelance (None-stable income + PITA to collect money)

And if your answer is number 2, sorry also. Becasue 80% of the time, what u do is not what u like. Changes after changes, u will end-up with the version that u dont like, perhaps u will start to hate it.

If your answer is number 3, LOL. Almost all studios now require u to work late, and guest what? U still have to go into the office the next morning. U work till 3 last night? may be u can be late for 1 or 2 hours. But what is 1 or 2 hours compare to working till 3 AM.


So if for those who like art and CG, just remain it as a hobby. When ppl told u that making your hobby as your career is fun. he is bullshitting u. U want money? Go study business, economy, Oil & Gas/ Aerospace Engineering, doctor, lawyer or even a start your own business nor matter how small it is.


U want job satisfaction? Well depends what u like most. U like Flexible working hour, become a sales-man, insurance/property/direct-sales agent. u will have plenty of time.

Trust me... youngman, before its too late. Dont waste your 3 years and 60K fees in this line. its not worth it. Trust me...

And yet u won get very rich. Perhaps only 30% of the studio here making money, some can only cari makan, and some barely survive.

May be i shouldn't post it at the first place. I understand your situation, as i had gone through it myself. Ppl said the same thing to me 15 years ago, and i react just like u. But after so many years in this industry, i see some ppl in the same industry doing good, but majority of us are still suffering from the low pay, long working hour nightmare. and i dont see there is anyway to change this in the near future. Art can make money, but not in Malaysia, not even in Singapore, and Hong Kong and China. If u manage to work in Australia or NZ or even better, US or Europe, by all means go for it. But its not easy to get a job there especially in this line.

After 12 years of doing what i love initialy, i started to think, am i doing this for myself, or for the client. Should i be so selfish to let my family suffer with me? How many hours can i see my wife and kid a day, or perhaps how many hours a week. Everyday when i go to work, my wife ask me if i am coming back for dinner, i can not give her an answer. And she ask me what time roughly do i come back from work, i cant give her an answer. And she ask again if i am coming at all that day, i cant give her an answer. I am like a police, i dont know if i am able to go home that day every morning when i step out of my house. U may think i bullshit, i am telling the truth, i live like that everyday. even on weekend when i need to go to my wife home town i have to turn off my phone, so they cant find me. I use to stay in the office for 2 weeks with all my cloths, underware and pillow. After that 2 weeks my girl friend break off with me. And i am not the only one that experienced this. If anybody already in this industry who never experience this, its either u are working in a not so happening company, or your boss is too good.

Try ask ppl who are working in Silver Ant or MFX how is their working life, and u will be surprise. I know we are all doing what we like, but the client and your boss use that as an advantage, to make u work like a dog. U may be willing to take it for the sake of love for art, u may be thinking money is not important, u may think that 14 working hours is nothing. but how about your wife, how about your kid? How about your old and lonely parent? Are they suppose to suffer together with u, just because your love of art? If u are 21, fine no worries. 25? Still good. 30? Start thinking about what u want. 35? 40? 45?

Go to any animation studio or post production and see how many ppl there are over 35. In this line if u are over 35, u better be someone, other wise u are dead. At least 50% ppl switch line before 35, and that is if u are lucky. Dont ask me how many ppl over 35 that i had meet in this line. But i am sure everyone of them had a sad story. And i even know some is over 45, and their career is over, its gone. And they dont know what to do, because thats everything he knows. And he had 3 kids to take care of, and the eldest son is going to college. His salary may be 10K, so it would be 120K a year. How much do the college charge u? 20K for a year. Thats 2 months of his salary. How about other son, they are going to Uni soon. How abot house loan? Car loan? May be your son need a transport, a bike? a car? Well, do the calculation.

For those of them keep saying this line is good, this line is fun, this line can make money. U are either too naive, too un-experience, or u are working for the college. Yes, art can make money. But not everybody. So if u have a rich daddy to give u the money to start a studio, u are lucky. If not, u are just a slave to your boss, to your client, and to art. Think about it, not for now, but for the rest of your life. Think what u want to do when u are 40. And come back here and tell me.

Ok basically in this line, or perhaps all other area. There are people who do it, and people who sell it. And believe it or not, 90% of the time, the people who sell it took most of the credit, or put it in the simple form- the people who sell it get more money than the people who do it. So... ask yourself, are you a salesman? Are you good in presenting your work to your client? Or i can say most of the time you need to bullshit. Sad but true, even though i don't like to believe it.

If u are those ppl that can do great work, but u can't talk or dont like to talk, then u will be forever a "backroom boy". The client may like your work, but most of the time the client don't even know u. What they know is XXX company doing a great job, and not YYY from XXX company is doing a great job. So in this case, if u are leaving the company due to low salary, your boss may or may not ask u to stay. And even if he do, dont expect mirical. why, because they know u are good, but the amount that he need to pay u, he may be able to hire 2 to 3 fresh-grat, and he believe he can use quantity to overcome experience. there are exception, but rare.

So if u are planning to further study in oversea, dont come back. The amount u earn is not worth spending that kind of money to study oversea. And if u work in oversea after uni, u wont feel like coming back and work here. Mostly because of the different working style, the whole big enviroment, and also the amount of money u get. So it comes down to the same question, what do u want to do? U want to settle down in oversea? How about your parents? Girlfriend? If u plan to come back, what do u want to do? Save some money in oversea and come back do business? Got a few friends did this and end up lost all their money. So here is the fact:

1) Do it only when u dont give a shit about money, family and u dont want a life.
2) Do it if u dont have to worry about money. I knew a friend who's father give him a million to start a studi after grat. god knows if he is making any money.
3) Do it if your father own a business that may need your skill, but young ppl now days dont like family business.
3) Do it only when u know that u won have to work in asia. i meant the whole asia. Including Japan & Korea.

I know it sound depress, but if u really wanna venture into this line, u need to be prepare. and i still don't encourage ppl to join this line. Unless u are in the list of what i just said. Good luck. will PM u my MSN, but i dont online everyday.

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Added on May 27, 2008, 4:52 pmIf he really like art & willing to give up everything for it, then what i said wont influnce his dicision. And if he listen to what i said and give up, then its better to give up now then later, which for sure he is going to face in his career. What i am telling u guys is the truth, that your lecturer may not tell u, or may not know, so that u know what u are going to face. I had meet so many fresh-grat that end up dissapointed with what they are doing, which aren't what's in their mind at the first place.

U like doing illustartion? How many illustartor are suffering now? Try go ask Stanley or other pioneer in illustartion, if u happen to know them. Stanley studio main business are not illustration any more, but doing 3D walkthrough for developer. And u can go ask him why, he will be happy to tell u. And how many 3D fresh-grat are happy to do 3D walkthrough? But thats where the main source of income. u dont wanna do it, there are 100s more studio willing to do, with even lower price. So what i am doing is not ignoring the fact that some of u like art and has the passion for it, thats great. But i am trying to tell them, when u are in the business, u may lost what u once passionate for. afetr 14 hours of work, i dont think u want to do, or have time to do what u like, or so called "Own Project".

So if u really have passion for art, u dont have to make it your career. u can work as a salesman, get home early, and do some painting or build some 3d model and have fun with it. It will make your passion stays beacause u do it because u like to do it, not somebody want u to do, and do it the way they like.

This post has been edited by tong1774: May 27 2008, 04:52 PM

So u have to do what u dont like even in the college, imagine all this thing is going to be double or triple when u start working. including the amount of work, the amount of frustration, the number of sleepless night etc... So if u can't take college life, it will be worst when u start working in this line. The only different is in college, if u dont do your work u will failed the subject. But in working life, u will get fired, or worst- being black-listed by all studio, and it happens.

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Added on May 27, 2008, 5:26 pmI can feel u, but what i am saying is majority. I know in every line there are good and bad. Just that in our line, the things u may get, doesnt worth all the efford. Like a sales man, if he is good, he manage to sell lots of goods, and he will be paid accordingly (except being con by boss) and get rich. But for a designer or artist, u may be good, but how to justify that? Would your boss pay u more if your work got awarded in some film fest? U see... i know they are risk and headache in every line, but at least in other line, u dont have to work like that long hour.

U are a contruction worker? U get pay for OT, and i dont believe there is any constuction worker that have to work more than 24 hours none stop (My record is none sleep, none shower for 5 days, and barely eat). U work in a big corporation, u work 9 to 5, sunday confirm no need to work, lots of benefits. U work as insurance/property agent? Flexible working hour, no need to go office everyday, can go cinema 3 in the afternoon, and the more u do, the more u earn.

But what do we got? I work 8 hours and 24 also get the same pay. My company get a 20K project or 200K project i still get the same amount. I work for 12 years in this line, only got yearly bonus once. So if u are those who is looking for bonus, dont work in this line. My department 10 ppl i get the same amount. when 5 of them left and i have to cover their work, i still get the same pay.

Well... if after all this u still din get what i say, then i guest i will give up. But what i can say id good luck. 70% hardwork, 30% luck. Thats what i can say.

Oh btw: U may misunderstand my statement. I am not saying art is shit, art is useless. what i am saying is, in Malaysia, people do not appretiate it, or they do not willing to pay for something that they appretiate, and those people are the one who pay your salary. So if u are working in oversea, mainly the "Mat Salleh" country, this problem may not be an issue. But now in those country, they are facing other issue. Due to the increasing production cost, most of their production will be assign to asia country, mainly china. and because of this, the amount of artist they need had been greatly decrease. And even if they are hiring, they will consider their own citizen first, then mat salleh from other country, then only asian. This is their goverment policy to protect their own industry. Good for them, bad for us. And when they assign their project to asia, those studios that wanted to take those job will start to counter each other in terms of pricing. And the end result is lower production cost, and lower average salary.

So if u want to work in oversea, the easist is to stay there after uni, since most of the country allow u to stay for another year or so. And if u manage to work there, work hard (And believe me, its not that hard compare to mat salleh), then your boss may help u to extend your permit. And if u stay there for 5 years (Depemds on country), u will get a PR, and then u can work in what ever company in that country without permit problem. i got a friend working in Microsoft as a department manager, and he can never come back and work here due to varies reason. So please take my words, i normally dont type so much.

This post has been edited by tong1774: May 27 2008, 05:50 PM

May i know where u come from? i meant which state.

Ya, i am old. Times fly...

LOL... its ok. I am old and i admit that. nothing wrong with that.

I really hope u guys who plan to venture into this business, be prepare. Think about the future, not just what u like now. As long as u dont feel regret 10 or 20 years from now.

My salary is not a good reference because i am not doing it any more. But before i left this line, i am getting 9K as an animation director. 9K is not a lot consider a fresh oil/gas engineer or traineer pilot get about 5K. And after 12 years they can go up to 20K or even more. 9K can get me a house, and a moderate car, thats it. U cant afford to go europe for holiday. May be china or other part of asia, not even Japan. Lets see:


Hosue loan: RM2080+
Condo maintanence fee: RM180
Chkai pintu: RM300+- (Yearly)
Water + Lectric + Streamyx +Phone: RM400+-
Personel insurance: RM150+
Car Insurance + Roadtax: RM800+- (Yearly)
Car loan: RM1200+
Fuel: RM300+-
Toll: RM100+-
Parking: RM100
Car maintainence: RM150+- (Every 3 months)
Rokok: RM8.20 X 30= RM260+
DVDs: RM50+-
Food: RM500+-
Occasionally mamak or beer: RM100+-
Cinema once a week: RM40+ (Monthly)
Misc: RM100+-
Clothes and shores : RM500+- (Yearly)
Hair cut: RM20+-
Condom and pron: RM50+-
Yearly vacation: RM3000+- (Yearly)
Gadget like phone, computer hardware etc: RM500 (Yearly)

This is what i can think of right now, i am sure there are more hidden expenses that i missed. But u got an idea how much i spend monthly, and deduct by how much i earn. And 9K is not in full amount, u need to deduct EPF and income tax. And the list above is only for me alone. If including my wife and kids some items have to be double or triple. And if my wife doesnt work, i need to cover all her make up, dress, healthy products etc. And for kids, milk powder for the younger one, pampers. The older one education, school activities items, pocket money, or tuition fees.

So now tell me, if u were me, how are u going to support your family? And if u have both parents retired and depends on you financially? And none of the items i listed up there are really exclusive, except may be rokok for Rm260+ and occasionally minum. And even if i save all that, its not going to help much. When i do not own a house or a car, or if i do not have a family with 2 kids, and parents staying with me. If i am 10 years younger, i will like what i am doing. But i just can't. Its very sad, i know. Even with my position and experience, and 9K monthly income, it just aren't enough.

This is not just for ppl doing art, but almost all other area. But like i said, when u are in art line, u dont even have time to compensate your family for all that. So if someone can enlight me the future path of art carrer in Malaysia, i would like to heard it.

Sometimes RM8.20 X 50, or 60 depends if that month is busy or not. Smoke a lot when u work late. As for me, now i am no more in this line, doing own business which has nothing to do with art. And i am just a small share holder. But at least u get what u deserve.

Thanks for reading all my long post. Hope this can help young people decide what they want to do. If anybody want to know more about this industry, i meant everything, i will try my best to help, or at least give you some guide.

A 30sec tvc can fetch from 20K to 80K in Malaysia market, which 80K is on the high side, and now days not many tvc can fetch 80K for any studio in Malaysia. So let say client has 60K for the 3D production cost. When this project goes to freelancer, the client or agency will expect a "cost cut" to may be 30 to 40K.

So this project require 4 animators to work for the duration of 4 weeks including pre-pro, production and sometimes the post-pro. If u only have one project at a time due to timing or other reason, each person will get 10K in a month. Yes sounds good. But now days not many client willing to pay u 50% before the start of the production, and u may only recieve 30% halfway of the production, thats 2K+ for each. And by rules they should pay u the remaining by the time of material delivery. But many fail to do so, and they will start to talk to u about the next project. Because u want to get their next project, u won chase him too hard for the money worrying that he may get pissed off. So u continue with the next project. If u are lucky, u may get another 30% next month, so they still own you 40%, and god bless u for that remaining 40%.

And imagine after 3 jobs in 2 to 3 months time, u only recieved may be 9K for each person. And then they will start to nitpicking and find an excuse to look for other freelancer, or sometimes even without any excuse. And they will do the same thing to other freelancers in the industry. With every job they skip the 40%, after 10 job its a big money. So how many months can u stand with 2K+ monthly? And tvc is not like school project, they are not as kind as your lecturer.

So after 6 months to one years, due to the financial problem, or lack of project. The team will split. And u will have to start all over again. I use to work as a freelancer for 4 years. Some times i can earn 20K a month, some times nothing. Some after 3 years still haven pay me the remaining 40%.

So u are in 3D now? Actually nor matter what u doing, as long as u are in art industry, u will face this problem. The only option i can see which is good for money.

1) Joint production house, work your way up as a commercial director, good money, flexible timing, most of the time have to bullshit, very stress & mostly screw up live, charge per job.

2) Joint production house, work your way up as a DOP (Director of Photography), good money, flexible timing, not as stress as director & have good live, but require good technical knowledge and no bullshit, charge per job.

3) Joint advertising agency (Big one), work your way up as script writter, creative director or executive producer. Good money, not so flexible timing, stress & politics, bullshit & PR a lot, not so much on technical side, a lot of lubang to get more money (I cant tell u how)

4) Get in-touch with insider of goverment department. Get job for all major projects, very good money, very flexible timing, very not stress, bloody a lot of bullshit & PR, no need technical knowledge, and sometimes dont even need capital.

Above is few ways of making big money, u can easily earn more than 100K a month. A famous director can get 30 to 40K for a 2 days shoot, but more time is needed for pre-pro and post. A damn good DOP can get 10 to 20K in a 2 day shoots, and he only has to work for that 2 days, may be 1 day location survey. And no need to attend pre-pro or post that often. As for agency, its very hard to say how much u can get, may be ranging from 10 to 50K a month, some times more, depends how much lubang u got. The one that really make big money is to get all those goverment projects which will cost millions.

But mind u, all the options above are not easy to achive, but if u really got passion, go for it, and u will be rewarded. But I notice that too late, cant change anything now.

This post has been edited by tong1774: May 29 2008, 06:44 PM

i am currently running my own business, its a trading company. As for big advertising agency in Malaysia, there are a few:

1) O & M - Currently the hottest one, but most of the ppl inside are not friendly except their creative department are ok. Very stress & politics. But got lots of lubang for "extra money"

2) Mccann Ericson - One of the best in Malaysia, there are more pro then O & M. Very stress & politics. But at least they dont play play with their job.

3) Leo Burnett - Very low profile recently, may not seems to have a lot of business, but most of their accounts are huge. And one of the best working enviroment, u feel like working in a 5 star hotel. Stress & politic not sure.

4) DY & R - Doing quite well, good benefits, 2 bonus in a year. Company trip went to Paris in one of those "Good" year. May not be as stress & politics like others, not sure since ppl in & out.

5) Saatchi & Saatchi - Nice team there, ppl are more friendly overall. Less stress & politics. But sometimes can be a bit un-pro. Mainly doing regional account for big client.

6) BBDO - Changed management couple of times, not sure how is condition recently.

Others like JWT, Bates, Dentsu, Grey etc are quite big as well. But from experience, smaller agency ppl are more friendly and less stress & politics. But u want to make big money, u have to venture into politics, AND SURVIVE! Good luck.

This post has been edited by tong1774: May 29 2008, 07:31 PM

I can't tell u what the lubang is, as u are still young & passionate, i don't want to corrupt your mind. Really. Its like a teaching a new driver how to do stunt. You will know it when you are in that position.

LOL i am not saying u should go in and work in the goverment department, even though your life can be quite relax in there, but pay very low. Unless u are working in those department that can earn your some extra money. I am saying u set up a company and take projects from them.

Well being a lecturer has more stable income even though its not a lot, less stressful and do not require to work late that often. If u really want to venture into education, u should continue your study to at lease master degree, that will fetch you a better income when lecturing. But dont expect anything more than 8K, most lecturer start around 2.5K and work their way up. U may probaly get 5 to 6K if u are the course leader. And owning the college is a different story, but that will involve a lot of money and risk. But once everything work as it suppose to be, then the money will start to flow in, like what happen to Lim Kok Weng and The One.

This post has been edited by tong1774: May 30 2008, 11:16 AM

Wow 2 months no salary? So are they doing it often? My worst experience is during those bad years where some times salry will be late for 2 weeks, but never longer than that. My advise is leave that company, now there are tons of studio looking for animators. My friend who is an animator himself is setting up a studio. You or who ever interested can PM me. Heard from him that his offer is higher that market rate, dont expect a really big margin though, but at least 20 to 30% higher depend on your experience. He need both senior and fresh-grat. But i won't be working with him.

BTW, if your company is late in paying your salary, there is a possiblity they may 'Makan" your EPF and income tax if they deduct it from your salary monthly. Go check this 2, and if they do "makan", u can launch a report.

What u said about the post production & game industry is true. The reason of game industry being less stressful and better paid is because most of them are foreign investment, like codemaster, and gamebrain is consider half Malaysia since the boss are mat salleh. So yeah, if u want to join the game industry, be it now. Few years from now, a lot of game production will go to China, like what happen to long format now. Or when all this mat salleh company start to become more localise, they will start to lower the overall wages and other benifits to gian more benifits.

But bare in mind that not all game studio are paying as good as codemaster. And u must know the different between game and post production. As in post production u may have to involve in all aspect of the production like modelling, character setup, texture and lighting. But in game industry, u may be doing just modeling for cars for the whole year, or weapons or buildings. This may bored some of u, and its actually not very good for fresh-grat, as u may be too specialise in one thing and lost the rest.

And the same problem is, u will reach a limits in terms of salary, dont expect anything more than 8K unless u are doing a lot of freelance. And freelance will give u stress as well. LOL. But at least u got a stable income from full time job and do not have to worry too much even if its difficult to collect money for the freelance.