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 AMD Ryzen, AM4 Platform

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popopi
post Jan 20 2021, 03:38 PM

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QUOTE(Jedi @ Jan 20 2021, 01:00 PM)
when intel announce specs of alder lake and AMD announce next gen
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Intel GG already, now is time for Intel to catch up...
now with new CEO. if want catch also minimum few years...
Rhetoric
post Jan 20 2021, 04:02 PM

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QUOTE(popopi @ Jan 20 2021, 03:38 PM)
Intel GG already, now is time for Intel to catch up...
now with new CEO. if want catch also minimum few years...
*
oh boi you gonna triggered some people
Jedi
post Jan 20 2021, 04:40 PM

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On the contrary based on issues complained on this section abt amd do u think intel gg? Haha
Bonchi
post Jan 20 2021, 05:04 PM

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QUOTE(Jedi @ Jan 20 2021, 04:40 PM)
On the contrary based on issues complained on this section abt amd do u think intel gg? Haha
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realistically, intel still long way from gg. their revenue is 71billion while amd is only 6b. They may be doing “better” than intel in DIY enthusiast systems. But they are still a far cry from being a reliable corporate solution and servers. Intel’s low power devices seems to work better than amd as well.

This post has been edited by Bonchi: Jan 20 2021, 05:05 PM
Bonchi
post Jan 20 2021, 05:08 PM

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QUOTE(popopi @ Jan 20 2021, 03:38 PM)
Intel GG already, now is time for Intel to catch up...
now with new CEO. if want catch also minimum few years...
*
intel just lansi wanna stick to their own fabs jer.. imagine if they throw to tsmc to do... sure gg. Infact the upcoming future power horse might be apple’s workstation CPU.
freakenstein
post Jan 20 2021, 05:55 PM

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QUOTE(nrw @ Jan 20 2021, 08:48 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Edited*: added AMD's public use graphs.
Edit2*: actually the boost clock override (up to +200MHz by AMD, up to +500MHz based on OEM) makes it much harder to have a stable system (with override of +200 or more) in combination with a PBO2 curve.
I bet everyone having a 5600x and having played with +200 & PBO2 or above can relate. It just doesn't work all that well.
If you want both, you have to settle for +50 or something much lower than +200MHz.
*
This is some really good insight , thanks. I have been running -24 and an override of +200mhz for a few days now for the heck of it , that's what people do when they get PC's isn't it , to tweak around here and there. biggrin.gif
cstkl1
post Jan 20 2021, 08:04 PM

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QUOTE(Bonchi @ Jan 20 2021, 05:08 PM)
intel just lansi wanna stick to their own fabs jer.. imagine if they throw to tsmc to do... sure gg. Infact the upcoming future power horse might be apple’s workstation CPU.
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its not fab issue. tsmc cant help.
they cannot get the clock speed high enough to beat cmtlake/rkt

i mean look it took zen 3 chiplet 7nm ..(imc higher fab) 15x the cache, not working cstate, weird pbo, not at all at thermal spec, unknown voltage ranges, ram 3200

to beat a 14nm tech.


Bonchi
post Jan 20 2021, 08:28 PM

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QUOTE(cstkl1 @ Jan 20 2021, 08:04 PM)
its not fab issue. tsmc cant help.
they cannot get the clock speed high enough to beat cmtlake/rkt

i mean look it took zen 3 chiplet 7nm ..(imc higher fab) 15x the cache, not working cstate, weird pbo, not at all at thermal spec, unknown voltage ranges, ram 3200

to beat a 14nm tech.
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zen 3 cannot clock so high is their design problem i suppose.. tsmc is just technically a "wafer printer". So far we've not seen tsmc make products that clocks very high but we can see from the same fab, they've made very different chips for very different clients with very different characteristics.
cstkl1
post Jan 20 2021, 08:58 PM

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QUOTE(Bonchi @ Jan 20 2021, 08:28 PM)
zen 3 cannot clock so high is their design problem i suppose.. tsmc is just technically a "wafer printer". So far we've not seen tsmc make products that clocks very high but we can see from the same fab, they've made very different chips for very different clients with very different characteristics.
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Afaik fab only just small part. Its always down to design first.

Rklk is seriously diff than cmlk. Alderlake even more. Hint two mc on it. Fivr on secondary rail. Pseudo support with ddr4 kindda nerfs the cpu.
Bonchi
post Jan 20 2021, 09:14 PM

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QUOTE(cstkl1 @ Jan 20 2021, 08:58 PM)
Afaik fab only just small part. Its always down to design first.

Rklk is seriously diff than cmlk. Alderlake even more. Hint two mc on it. Fivr on secondary rail. Pseudo support with ddr4 kindda nerfs the cpu.
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deswai cannot imagine what would happen if intel went with tsmc.. could be something hnghhh. But well, since their 10nm is coming together, that might be something nice to look forward to.

or maybe by then, amd might finally sit down and properly solve their stability problems.

This post has been edited by Bonchi: Jan 20 2021, 09:15 PM
1024kbps
post Jan 20 2021, 09:31 PM

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QUOTE(popopi @ Jan 20 2021, 03:38 PM)
Intel GG already, now is time for Intel to catch up...
now with new CEO. if want catch also minimum few years...
*
Intel might be gg on DIY market,
corporate customer still buying pc with intel CPU, my workplace workstation, lappy, tablet are 100% intel CPU + GPU.
most of them dont really cares about internal tech.

all the lab instrument my company produce are still using intel celeron sweat.gif
WITH Windows 10... running program from usb drive takes sweets 10 minutes because dumbass windows defender will scan the drive every single time lol
thankyou
post Jan 20 2021, 11:35 PM

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QUOTE(1024kbps @ Jan 20 2021, 09:31 PM)
Intel might be gg on DIY market,
corporate customer still buying pc with intel CPU, my workplace workstation, lappy, tablet are 100% intel CPU + GPU.
most of them dont really cares about internal tech.

all the lab instrument my company produce are still using intel celeron  sweat.gif
WITH Windows 10... running program from usb drive takes sweets 10 minutes because dumbass windows defender will scan the drive every single time lol
*
Yeap, stability is the highest priority in enterprise world.

I'm still trying to convince company to switch to EYPC/Threadripper for our virtualisation farm.... let's see if management buy the idea or not...
Bonchi
post Jan 21 2021, 12:11 AM

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QUOTE(thankyou @ Jan 20 2021, 11:35 PM)
Yeap, stability is the highest priority in enterprise world.

I'm still trying to convince company to switch to EYPC/Threadripper for our virtualisation farm.... let's see if management buy the idea or not...
*
virtualization is the only thing it can do for now actually. If used for database and storage servers that requires high IO and fast caches, xeon still outperforms the epyc.. and also the lack of confidence in security on amd's side. There is a huge compatibility issue as well, like my former company did a trial run on the epyc and one of the legacy SAP host kept crashing.

So if you dont wanna end up possibly having endless OT to troubleshoot... better do a test run first like as for a sample laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Bonchi: Jan 21 2021, 12:15 AM
yimingwuzere
post Jan 21 2021, 12:24 AM

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QUOTE(1024kbps @ Jan 20 2021, 09:31 PM)
Intel might be gg on DIY market,
corporate customer still buying pc with intel CPU, my workplace workstation, lappy, tablet are 100% intel CPU + GPU.
most of them dont really cares about internal tech.

all the lab instrument my company produce are still using intel celeron  sweat.gif
WITH Windows 10... running program from usb drive takes sweets 10 minutes because dumbass windows defender will scan the drive every single time lol
*
To be fair, there isn't much wrong with Ice+Tiger Lake with ultraportables from a performance standpoint, apart from the exorbitant prices Intel charges for those chips vs Coffee/Comet Lake.

QUOTE(Bonchi @ Jan 21 2021, 12:11 AM)
virtualization is the only thing it can do for now actually. If used for database and storage servers that requires high IO and fast caches, xeon still outperforms the epyc.. and also the lack of confidence in security on amd's side. There is a huge compatibility issue as well, like my former company did a trial run on the epyc and one of the legacy SAP host kept crashing.

So if you dont wanna end up possibly having endless OT to troubleshoot... better do a test run first like as for a sample laugh.gif
*
There's a lot of specially binned Xeons with almost all cores disabled but the fastest ones, so you end up with ultra fast 4-8 core HEDT chips and a crapload of cache. These chips have no equals in the AMD sphere for the niche tasks they're excellent at (some specialty databases, high frequency trading software, etc).

But when it comes to mass number of VMs, AMD is king here in price/performance by a huge margin.
Bonchi
post Jan 21 2021, 12:27 AM

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QUOTE(yimingwuzere @ Jan 21 2021, 12:24 AM)
To be fair, there isn't much wrong with Ice+Tiger Lake with ultraportables from a performance standpoint, apart from the exorbitant prices Intel charges for those chips vs Coffee/Comet Lake.
There's a lot of specially binned Xeons with almost all cores disabled but the fastest ones, so you end up with ultra fast 4-8 core HEDT chips and a crapload of cache. These chips have no equals in the AMD sphere for the niche tasks they're excellent at (some specialty databases, high frequency trading software, etc).

But when it comes to mass number of VMs, AMD is king here in price/performance by a huge margin.
*
yeap precisely.. epyc is just a core slave... and really bang for buck for the number of cores it has. Kinda the best for less intense webhosting VMs.
thankyou
post Jan 21 2021, 12:30 AM

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QUOTE(Bonchi @ Jan 21 2021, 12:11 AM)
virtualization is the only thing it can do for now actually. If used for database and storage servers that requires high IO and fast caches, xeon still outperforms the epyc.. and also the lack of confidence in security on amd's side. There is a huge compatibility issue as well, like my former company did a trial run on the epyc and one of the legacy SAP host kept crashing.

So if you dont wanna end up possibly having endless OT to troubleshoot... better do a test run first like as for a sample laugh.gif
*
Definitely no, production VM hosts will still be running on Xeon clusters. I'm trying to propose EYPC/Threadripper for staging VM hosts... At least we can test it out for 6-12months for the stability period.

But again, it's very hard to convince the bosses to allocate budget for AMD cluster hosts without knowing "if it actually works"... In theory ya.. it will work and it should... in reality... if it ever crashes... there goes our KPI lol!
yimingwuzere
post Jan 21 2021, 01:06 AM

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Since everyone was talking about PBO2 Curve Optimizer... What negative offsets are you guys using? Currently attempting to tune at a per-core level, and using Cinebench R23 10mins MT run + 6 hours Prime95... reckon this is sufficient for stability testing based on what everyone here has experienced so far?
popopi
post Jan 21 2021, 09:31 AM

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QUOTE(Rhetoric @ Jan 20 2021, 04:02 PM)
oh boi you gonna triggered some people
*
Lol, maybe yes... but this is the cold hard truth... I only started support AMD form the 5000 series onwards, else is always Intel for me.

QUOTE(Bonchi @ Jan 20 2021, 05:08 PM)
intel just lansi wanna stick to their own fabs jer.. imagine if they throw to tsmc to do... sure gg. Infact the upcoming future power horse might be apple’s workstation CPU.
*
Intel already using TSMS for their up coming PCH. fabs is good business, cannot simply let go. older gen fabs is still making lots of money.

QUOTE(1024kbps @ Jan 20 2021, 09:31 PM)
Intel might be gg on DIY market,
corporate customer still buying pc with intel CPU, my workplace workstation, lappy, tablet are 100% intel CPU + GPU.
most of them dont really cares about internal tech.

all the lab instrument my company produce are still using intel celeron  sweat.gif
WITH Windows 10... running program from usb drive takes sweets 10 minutes because dumbass windows defender will scan the drive every single time lol
*
Ya, you are right here. AMD now mostly for DIY and prebuilt systems and maybe laptop.
AMD will still take more years if want to tackle into vertical industry....
xxboxx
post Jan 21 2021, 12:35 PM

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QUOTE(1024kbps @ Jan 20 2021, 09:31 PM)
Intel might be gg on DIY market,
corporate customer still buying pc with intel CPU, my workplace workstation, lappy, tablet are 100% intel CPU + GPU.
most of them dont really cares about internal tech.

all the lab instrument my company produce are still using intel celeron  sweat.gif
WITH Windows 10... running program from usb drive takes sweets 10 minutes because dumbass windows defender will scan the drive every single time lol
*
As long as it's Intel laugh.gif
TBH those not so IT savvy just see the brand without realizing Celeron and i7/i9 performance gap is very huge.
Skylinestar
post Jan 21 2021, 02:07 PM

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QUOTE(xxboxx @ Jan 21 2021, 12:35 PM)
As long as it's Intel laugh.gif
TBH those not so IT savvy just see the brand without realizing Celeron and i7/i9 performance gap is very huge.
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the price gap also very huge tongue.gif

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