1.0 Objective and purpose of this thread

- deleted on 19.4.2013


2.0 Nature of the legal profession

Being a lawyer is not a mere profession in the sense of completing the required task and earning an income for it. There are other important roles connected to the legal profession. According to Lord Denning, a lawyer is a social guardian. A lawyer has an extra responsibility in society because a lawyer would have the required training and knowledge to speak about social injustice and abuse of power.

Therefore, a lawyer is regarded as a social commentator. He is given the duty to ensure that the social values and rights are taken care of. Human rights and public rights would be issues that are of paramount importance to lawyers. It is a lawyer's endeavour to ensure the rights of the society will not be infringed especially by powerful individuals or the state and these are lawyers' responsibility to society.

Whenever any form of social injustice such as the oppression of labourer and citizens and the exploitation of any weaker section of the society occurs, it will be crucial that these form of injusice are corrected and be brought to the attention of the people and hopefully through the powers of media, it will be brought to the attention of the whole community.

Besides that, when any form of manipulation by the powerful occurs in a society, it is the lawyer's bounden duty to ensure that any form of such abuse of position and corruption be highlighted. These lines of argument are basically the 'supposed' reasonings why lawyers do what they do when there is any form of injustice and oppression in society especially when this injustice is committed for the achievement of self-interest by the powerful.

'practising members of the profession are in the best position to spot necessary changes in the law...... it is their duty to draw public attention to the need for change whenever it arises. Lawyers owe this duty to their fellow citizens' - speech given in 1981 at the Sixth Malaysian Law Conference by the late Tun Suffian, former Lord President of the Federal Court.

3.0 Who is a qualified person for purposes of Section 10 of the Legal Profession Act 1976 to be admitted as an Advocate and Solicitor of the High Court?

Part 1 Section 3 of the Legal Profession Act 1976 defines a 'qualified person' to be any person who -

( a ) has passed the final examination leading to the degree of Bachelor of Laws of the University of Malaya, the University of Malaya in Singapore, the University of Singapore or the National University of Singapore;

( b ) is a barrister-at-law of England; or

( c ) is in possession of such other qualification as may by notification in the Gazette be declared by the Board to be sufficient to make a person a qualified person for the purposes of this Act;


4.0 What are the steps to become a lawyer in Malaysia

4.1 Local Public Universities

Currently there are 5 Law Faculties in local public universities -
1. Universiti Malaya in Kuala Lumpur;
2. Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia in Bangi, Selangor;
3. International Islamic University in Gombak, Selangor;
4. Universiti Teknologi MARA in Shah Alam, Selangor; and
5. Universiti Utara Malaysia in Sintok, Kedah.

The current procedure to gain admission into the Malaysian Bar via the abovementioned Universities are as follows :-

STPM/Matriculation -> Bachelor of Laws/LLB (4 yrs) -> pupillage 3 months -> short call to the bar (limited right of audience to appear before the court in chambers) -> pupillage further 6 months -> long call to the bar(full right of audience)

4.2 National University of Singapore
The pathway for NUS is apparently the same as local public universities with the exception of STPM where A levels or it's equivalent is recognised.

4.3 Local Private University

There is currently a local private university law degree (MMU) which is pending recognition by the Qualifying Board.

The procedures are as follows :-
STPM/A Levels/Foundation/other recognised qualification by the University -> Bachelor of Laws (4 yrs)
Once it has been recognised -> pupillage 3 months -> short call to the bar (limited right of audience to appear before the court in chambers) -> pupillage for a further 6 months -> long call to the bar (full right of audience)

4.4 Local External Law Degree
The local External Law Degree mirrored against the University of London's External Law Degree is the Bachelor of Jurisprudence(External) from University Malaya. The route is the same as a foreign university route.

4.5 Foreign Law Degree

In order for a foreign law degree to be recognised, the candidate must obtain at least 3 credits in one sitting for the SPM Examination or its equivalent and also obtain at least 2 principal passes in one sitting for the STPM Examination or its equivalent and the candidate must use these results to enter into the law programme with the respective University. An exception to this would be the mature student entry route which would require the mature student to satisfy the abovementioned SPM requirement in addition to a minimum of 5 years proven working experience in the related field and also the special panel of the University admitting the mature student must declare that the mature student is suitable and proficient to follow the law programme and this must be done in concurrence with the Legal Profession Qualifying Board(hereinafter referred to as LPQB). Therefore, the mature route is subjected to the LPQB's discretion and it is best if the LPQB is contacted directly with regard to recognition of the relevant law degree. Once the abovementioned entry requirement is satisfied the route will be as follows :-

Recognised foreign law degrees (check with LPQB due to the list being frequently updated) -> CLP -> pupillage 3 months -> short call to the bar (limited right of audience to appear before the court in chambers) -> pupillage further 6 months -> long call to the bar (full right of audience)

*There is a requirement of a lower second class honours for University of London (External) Law graduates in gaining recognition for their degrees from the LPQB but the same rule does not apply to Internal Students.


5.0 Alternative Route to become a lawyer in Malaysia pursuant to Section 3 para b and c of the Legal Profession Act 1976

5.1 Pathway to become a Barrister-at-law of England and Wales

The stages to become a barrister is divided into two. The first being the academic stage and the second being the vocational stage. Successful completion of these two will entitle the qualification holder to be called to the English Bar. The law degree must be a recognised law degree so as to satisfy the academic stage .

Once the academic stage is completed, the candidate will then proceed to apply for the vocational stage. This is where the candidate would have to apply for a place with the 10 accredited providers of the Bar Professional Training Course(hereinafter referred to as the BPTC, formerly known as the Bar Vocational Course/Bar Exams) and this is done during the final year of the law degree.

The candidate is recommended to join one of the four Inns of Court(Inner Temple, Middle Temple, Lincoln's Inn and Gray's Inn) once he or she has made up his or her mind in becoming a barrister anytime during his or her law degree.

However, once the candidate has been accepted into the BPTC, h/she will have to submit the application to become a student member of one of the Inns before 31st May of the year the BPTC is expected to commence. After the candidate successfully complete the BPTC, he/she will be entitled to be called to the English Bar (without any right of audience) as long as the 12 Qualifying Sessions(Formerly known as Dining Sessions) with their respective Inn are completed.

In order for a Barrister to exercise his or her right of audience in England, a minimum of 12 months pupillage contract as well as specified Continuing Professional Training must be completed within a prescribed period.

Alternatively, should the barrister decide to practice in Malaysia pursuant to Section 3 para b of the Legal Profession Act 1976, the route would
be as follows :-

pupillage 3 months -> short call to the bar (limited right of audience to appear before the court in chambers) -> pupillage further 6 months -> long call to the bar (full right of audience)

Please refer to https://www.barprofessionaltraining.org.uk/ for more information regarding the application


Updated: I would like to bring everyone's attention that the Bar Professional Training Course has replaced the Bar Vocational Course. The revised course is expected to start in 2010. The passing mark will be increased by 5% from 60% to 65%. There will no longer be 3 attempts for the failed module. There will only be 1 attempt.

The most significant of all would be the Aptitude Test that is required before being eligible to enrol for the Bar Professional Training Course.

The implementation of the entrance examination and the new course (with new syllabus) is in line with Derek Woods QC's recommendation in 2008.

Please contact the Bar Standards Board for further information.



5.2 Pathway to become a Barrister-at-Law of Dublin

The pathway is basically almost the same as the path to become an English Barrister except that the academic stage must be recognised by King's Inn(The Subjects required are different) in addition to sitting for an entrance examination prior to the candidate proceeding for the Bar examinations. Successful completion of the Bar examination would enable to student to be called to the Irish Bar. This is sufficient to practice in Malaysia as King's Inn, Dublin Barrister-at-Law is recognised by the LPQB.

Should the barrister decide to practice in Ireland, the barrister would then have to complete a minimum of 12 months of Devilling.

Please refer to http://www.kingsinns.ie/website/index.htm for more information regarding the entrance examination

5.3 Pathway to become a Solicitor of the Supreme Court of Judicature England

The overview is basically the same as a Barrister-at-law in England with the exception of the vocational stage as well as the Inns.
A prospective solicitor will have to apply for the Legal Practice Course(hereinafter referred to as the LPC) during their final year for the Law Degree. Even after a prospective solicitor completed the LPC, he/she will not be entered on the roll until and unless a 2 years training contract as well as specified Continuing Professional Training is completed within a prescribed period.

Please refer to http://www.lawcabs.ac.uk/cabOnline/lpc.htm for more information regarding the application

*Every qualified person must have obtained at least a credit in BM and obtain an exemption certificate from the Qualifying Board prior to being called to the Bar in Malaysia, else the qualified person will have to sit for the Bahasa Malaysia Qualifying Examination.


6.0 What is a right of audience which is commonly referred to above?

A 'right of audience' is defined by the Courts and Legal Services Act 1990 (UK Legislation) as:

'the right to exercise any of the functions of appearing before and addressing a court including the calling and examining of witnesses'. (Section 119)

In short, only lawyers with right of audience(subject to local regulations), officers of the court, witness and litigants in person are allowed in between the bar and the bench. However, those without right of audience are unable to exercise the powers granted by the right of audience as defined above. Therefore, this distinguishes someone with right of audience with other natural person.

The bar in this case is an imaginary bar though commonly used to refer the bar separating the public gallery. The bench would be the area judges sit.

CLP to be abolished

7.0 Has the CLP been abolished with the recent statement given by the de facto Law Minister?

A simple answer is no because it is still a proposal. Reference can be made to the statement issued by the Secretary of the Bar Council below as to the implementation of the proposal.

8.0 What is the governing body regulating the CLP Examination as well as recognising qualifications for admission as an advocate and solicitor in the High Court?

The Legal Profession Qualifying Board (LPQB) is established pursuant to Part II Section 4 of the Legal Profession Act 1976

8.1 Function of the Board

Section 5 - The Board shall have the following functions:
( a ) to prescribe the qualifications required for the entry of any person into articles with a view to his admission as an advocate and solicitor;
( b ) to provide courses of instruction for, and to regulate the training and instruction of, articled clerks;
( c ) to provide for the examination of articled clerks wishing to become qualified persons;
( d ) to decide on the qualifications, if any, other than those set out in paragraphs (a) and (b) of the definition of "qualified person" in section 3, which may entitle a person to become a qualified person for the purposes of this Act;
( e ) to provide courses of instruction for, and for the examination of, persons whose qualifications are not sufficient to make them qualified persons for the purposes of this Act except after undergoing the courses and passing the examination;
( f ) to provide for the management and conduct of the Bahasa Malaysia Qualifying Examination

8.2 Contact

Legal Profession Qualifying Board Malaysia
3rd Floor, Wisma Straits Trading
No 2, Jalan Lebuh Pasar Besar
50050 Kuala Lumpur
Tel: 03-2691 0054, 03-2691 0080
Fax: 03-2691 0142

Please contact the Qualifying Board for updates with regard to recognised qualifications as well as specific preconditions to sit for the CLP examination.

8.3 List of Universities and Qualifications recognised in Malaysia
Country Institutions and Qualifications
Malaysia

1. Universiti Malaya Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
2. Qualifying Board CLP
3. Institut Teknologi MARA ADIL
4. International Islamic University Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
5. Universiti Kebangsaan Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
*6. University Utara Malaysia Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
*7. Multimedia University Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)

Singapore
1. University of Singapore Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
2. National University of Singapore Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
3 University of Malaya in Singapore Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)

United Kingdom
1. The Inner Temple Barrister-at-Law
2. The Middle Temple Barrister-at-Law
3. Gray's Inn Barrister-at-Law
4. Lincoln's Inn Barrister-at-Law
5. The Law Society Solicitor of the Supreme Court of Judicature England

Australia
1. Australian National University Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
2. University of Sydney Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
3. University of Adelaide Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
4. Monash University Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
5. University of Melbourne Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
6. University of Western Australia Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
7. Macquarie University Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
8. University of New South Wales Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
9. University of Queensland Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
10. University of Tasmania Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
11. University of Technology, Sydney Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
12. Bond University, Queensland Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
13. Murdoch University Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
14. Queensland University of Technology Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)

New Zealand
1. University of Auckland Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
2. University of Centerbury Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
3. Victoria University of Wellington Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
4. University of Otago Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)
5. University of Waikato Bachelor of Laws (LL.B)

Ireland
1. King's Inn, Dublin Barrister-at-Law


Source : http://www.malaysianbar.org.my/how_to_be_a_member.html

*UPDATED : Eligibility to proceed with pupillage without any additional qualification
Universiti Utara Malaysia
"Government Gazette P. U. (B)119 dated 16 April 2009"
Multimedia University
These 2 institutions were announced under the same Government Gazette.


8.4 List of Universities Recognised by the Qualifying Board

United Kingdom

Full Time Degrees

University of Birmingham
University of Bristol
University of Cambridge
University of East Anglia
University of Essex
University of Exeter
University of Hertfordshire
University of Hull
University of Leeds
University of Leicester
University of Liverpool
University of London - King's College
University of London - London School of Economics and Political Science
University of London - Queen Mary and Westfield College
University of London - School of Oriental and African Studies
University of London - University College
University of Manchester
University of Northumbria at Newcastle
University of Nottingham
Nottingham Trent University
Oxford Brookes University
University of Oxford
Queen's University Belfast
University of Reading
University of Sheffield
University of Southampton
University College of Wales, Aberystwyth
University of Wales, Cardiff
University of Warwick
University of West of England in Bristol

*Credits to jhong for the updated list

External Degrees

University of London - LLB - Law

Source: Part II of the New Guidelines on Qualifications and Requirements to Qualify to Sit for the Malaysian Certificate in Legal Practice (CLP) Examination (Guidelines) in Appendix S of the Legal Profession Act 1976 Statute Book.

Solicitor

Solicitor of the Supreme Court of Judicature of England

Source: PU (B) 633/81

Australia

University of Adelaide
Australian National University
Macquaire University
Monash University
University of Melbourne
University of New South Wales
University of Queensland
University of Sydney
University of Tasmania
University of Western Australia
University of Technology, Sydney
Bond University
Murdoch University
Queensland University of Technology

New Zealand

The University of Auckland
The University of Canterbury
The University of Otago
Victoria University of Wellington
University of Waikato

Source: PU (B) 14/2001

Ireland

Barrister-at-Law

Barrister-at-Law of the Honourable Society of King's Inn, Dublin, Eire

Source: PU (B) 341/82


Please take note that the information above is just a reference and it may not be updated. It is always prudent to verify the information with the Qualifying Board directly. There may be specific entry requirements and minimum degree classifications that are not reflected above. I shall not be liable for any loss whether economic or otherwise resulting directly or indirectly from the information above.

9.0 Common legal qualifications

Legum = plural for lex
Lex = singular for law

LL.B = Legum Baccalaureus = Bachelor of Laws
LL.M = Legum Magister = Master of Laws
LL.D = Legum Doctor = Doctorate of Laws

J.D = Juris Doctor = Doctor of Jurisprudence/Juris Doctorate

BA in Jurisprudence = Bachelor of Arts in the Final Honour School of Jurisprudence
BA Law = Bachelor of Arts in the Final Honour School of Law

10.0 What is Advocacy?
Advocacy is the means by which a barrister(or an advocate) puts their client’s case to the court, and may be both written and oral. It is a specialist skill, the quality and excellence of which distinguishes the Bar from other providers of legal services (It is a fused profession in Malaysia. However, the skill as an advocate in Malaysia is not exercised by all practising lawyers. Do note that providers of legal services does not necessarily mean practising lawyers.). It is in the interests of the public, the court and the profession that barristers(or advocates) present their cases to the highest possible standards.

Oral advocacy is primarily a performance skill. It requires the advocate to address the court persuasively and concisely, presenting their cases in a manner which is clear, well organised and efficient.

Key advocacy skills include case analysis, use of skeleton arguments, oral submissions, examinations-in-chief and cross-examination, pleas in mitigation and legal submissions.

Source (with appropriate modification): Advocacy Training Council

11.0 Since Solicitors of the law society of england and wales are by reference to http://www.malaysianbar.org.my/membership.html able to gain membership to the Malaysian bar, why doesn't anybody speak of this route. Is there a limitation to only solicitor work or due to Malaysia's fused system, can such a member of the law society also undertake advocate work in Malaysia if allowed membership to the Malaysian bar?

Yes they are able to but in order for one to be entered on the roll to become a solicitor in England, one will have to secure and complete the training contract and it is extremely competitive especially when one is not a British citizen or an EU citizen. Therefore, the preferable route is to become a Barrister-at-law as one will be able to be called to the bar prior to gaining a pupillage contract though being a barrister alone does not by itself confer automatic right of audience. There are a few Solicitors in England who is currently an Advocate and Solicitor in the High Court of Malaya and there is no limitation on their part in Malaysia. Even in England, after the enactment of the Courts and Legal Services Act 1990, the distinction between a Barrister and a Solicitor has been considerably narrowed.

Besides, the recognition of a Solicitor is due to the powers given to the Legal Profession Qualifying Board pursuant to Section 3 para c of the Legal Profession Act 1976. Considering the tendency of our policy to be very volatile, it is much safer to become a Barrister-at-law as only an Act of Parliament is able to amend it as opposed to mere discretion given to the Board.

12.0 What is the basic difference between the jurisdiction in US with other Common Law countries such as Malaysia?

"We all know the language of the common law is English and all the case law and textbooks on the common law the world over are written in English and it would be poor advocacy to put your case to the tribunal with translations from the English text.....Always apply for permission to address the court in English." - Dato N.H. Chan, former Court of Appeal Judge

US, UK, Malaysia, Singapore, and a number of countries' legal system is based on the Common Law System. It is fundamentally English(British) but has been developed accordingly and today recognised as the US Common Law, Malaysian Common Law and Singapore Common Law as opposed to merely the English Common Law.

Therefore, the Malaysian Common Law is not different in the sense that the foundations are the same. The development of the body of cases is different. Why is it still important? Common Law is mainly based on the principle of stare decisis and the entire body of the common law is a wealth of knowledge by judges. To disregard the knowledge we could gain by referring to other common law jurisdiction decisions would not serve us beneficially contrary to popular belief.

However, the sources of law in Malaysia is not based purely on Common Law. According to Salleh Buang, there are 4 principal sources of Malaysian law - customary law, Islamic law, English law(consisting of common law and equity) and statutes.

Admission into the US - refer to the state bar association. Normally require a person to possess a Juris Doctor (JD) from an accredited institution by the ABA. Else, a person with a foreign recognised law degree could take a LLM from an accredited institution. Both routes would require the person to sit for the state bar examination depending on which jurisdiction the person intend to practice.


13.0 What if my degree is not recognised by the Malaysian government. What can I do or what options do I have?

If the degree is not recognised by JPA then the holder will not be able to work in the civil service.

If the degree is not recognised by the LPQB or S3 LPA 1976 then the only option would be to be an English Barrister, English Solicitor or Irish Barrister(subject to changes to the recognition by the LPQB) if the degree is recognised by them.

Another unlikely and impractical alternative would be to become a lawyer elsewhere and to hope that the A-G will exercise his power under Section 28A Legal Profession Act 1976 so as to enable the lawyer to petition to be admitted as an advocate and solicitor of the High Court of Malaya or Sabah and Sarawak under Section 28B. The drawback here is, it is very unlikely that this power will be exercised and there is an expiry date for the Special Admissions Certificate.

14.0 What are the preconditions to sit for the CLP examination?

13.1 General route
1. The law degree must be a recognised law degree;
2. The applicant must have done the SPM/equivalent(which is recognised) and obtained at least 3 credits in one sitting;
3. The applicant must have done the STPM/equivalent(which is recognised) and obtain at least 2 principals in one sitting; and
4. The applicant must have used the result obtained to gain admission in the University for the recognised law degree.

13.2 Mature Student
1. A mature student must have at least 5 years proven relevant working experience;
2. The admission to the course must be based on that experience; and
3. The Qualifying Board must be satisfied that the mature student is suitable for CLP.

Therefore, the STPM/A levels route is still safer even for mature student.

NOTICE : There is a requirement for a credit in BM(SPM). Else, there is an additional BM Examination in which the candidate will normally be examined by a 3 person panel and normally 2 of them are judges. Those who went through this examination find it to be much tougher than the BM in SPM level. Typical questions given is to translate English provisions into BM.


15.0 Can a candidate who fail to satisfy the 2 principals in one sitting requirement for STPM or its equivalent sit for STPM or A levels after his or her law degree in order to qualify to sit for the CLP Examination?

No, because it does not apply retrospectively. The candidate must have entered the law degree either with the required result or as a mature student. If the candidate does not satisfy this requirement then the only option would be for the candidate to appeal. As of 1st January 2008, there has yet to be a successful appeal.


16.0 Career prospect of being a law graduates

Practically anything under the sun as long as the qualification satisfies the requirements stated by the prospective employer.

Normally, law graduates tend to proceed to become advocates or solicitors whether locally or abroad. There are those who prefer to enter fields like banking, business, commercial and management sectors where legal knowledge is sought after.

As a law graduate, there is an option of sitting for the ICSA Examination with 12 papers exemption. ICSA is recognised as a general degree on its own by JPA.

Please refer to :-
http://www.maicsa.org.my/students_recognition.aspx
Institute of Chartered Secretaries and Administrators (ICSA)

17.0 What are the subjects required for the law degree to be recognised by the Qualifying Board in Malaysia?

The law degree SHALL contain a minimum of 12 substantive law subjects,

The 12 law subjects, SHALL include the following 6 core- subjects:
a. Law of Contract
b. Law of Torts
c. Constitutional Law
d. Criminal Law
e. Land Law, and
f. Equity and Trusts

Each of the core-subjects above, SHALL be studied for the duration of one academic year and candidates must have passed all the core-subjects mentioned above.


18.0 Can I specifically specialise into Business Law?

A simple answer would be 'it depends' on what is meant by Business Law. Does it specifically relate inter alia to the law governing businesses, contract, commercial and other laws incidental to business such as those governing interest of creditors(involuntary or voluntary), business premises, etc? Therefore, it seems that Business Law covers a wide variety of core and elective subjects and its syllabus differ accordingly.

Normally each of these are studied as a subject on its own but sometimes it tend to overlap. Therefore, the scope and depth of the subject law students read are different from those taking a business degree.

Such a specialisation can be made by selecting relevant elective subjects in combination with other core or elective subjects.

However, there are institutions that offer LLB (Business Law). It is not exactly business law per se but the compulsory electives (options paper) will be inclined towards Business Law subjects such as Commercial Law, Company Law, Employment Law, etc. These subjects differs accordingly as it is subject to the syllabus of specific institutions.

As long as the papers for the LLB (Business Law) satisfy the requirements of the Qualifying Board and it was awarded from a recognised institution, then there should not be a problem with regard to recognition.


19.0 Are there any specific English language requirement for legal studies?

Normally the requirement for undergraduate level is at least a 6.5 overall band score for IELTS. However, for the Bar Vocational Course, there is a requirement of at least a 7.5 in all 4 modules for IELTS. Northumbria's policy for the BVC is an 8.0 minimum for the speaking category alone with at least a 7.5 overall band score. Masters programme normally require a 7.0 overall band score for IELTS.

There may be exemptions and it is best to obtain more information from the respective institutions. Moreover, the English language requirement above is merely a guidance as it may differ from institution to institution.


20.0 Miscellaneous Links

Justice Ian Chin's notes of proceedings
Justice Ian Chin's notes of proceedings - Continuation of hearing (July)
Solicitor's Remuneration Order 2005
Red Book : Know Your Rights
Datuk George Seah : The Hidden Story
Prof. Lon L. Fuller : The case of the Speluncean Explorers
Full Grounds of Judgment by Aziz Rahim J. in MB v MB suit
Opinion in regards of V.Simakumar by Tommy Thomas
LAWASIA Condemns the Arrest of 5 KL Legal Aid Lawyers
A consideration for foreign practitioners entering the legal profession in Malaysia

Whoa here comes V2

Moderator,
Will you be able to pin this Ver. 2 under Education Essential ? Thanks.

Schizophrenic,
Thank you once again for your good effort. Cheers.

Thank you for making V2.

TS, I need some advice.

I am confused about after completing a BA (just Bachelor of Arts), is it advisable to apply for a JD (in Australia), if there is no particular proof of its recognition in the civil sector of Malaysia?

Or is the best option now to either start a new LLB (or if possible, search high and low fora graduate entry program), or even forget the path of Law and carry on with an Arts Postgraduate path? I'm scared as a 2nd Year student already

Question is: What do you want to do - career/work wise?

Just to let you know MMU seems to be recognised by LPQB effective 10.08.2008 http://www.lpqb.org.my/index.php?option=co...d=131&Itemid=77

Anyone did their LLB in MMU? How's the experience there? Asking on behalf of my sister.

Looking for administrative roles in NGOs or gov positions, with special focus on Geopolitics/Environmental issues.
Law was a suggestion from my dad because of the more stable foundation it offers for job prospects (I'm slightly sceptical after some reading on the job prospects of law students, pretty much only talks about lawyers and court positions).

The qualifying board is very particular of the years of your LLB, so it is not recommended to enter graduate entry if you intend to practise here in Malaysia

I'm interested in this too, I haven't encounter any MMU LLB graduates before, not sure if there are any of them currently practising.

To answer your question at V1 thread, i have just started my pupillage.

I happen to know an MMU LLB graduate that is currently practising law.

Hello everyone I'm currently in my first year of LLB at BAC. On top of that, I am also taking an extra course that offers the following:

-Certificate in Oil and Gas Law and Practice
-Certificate in Shipping Law and Practice
-Diploma in International Arbitration

What effect, good or bad, does this have on my future job prospects here in Malaysia? I've heard that Shipping Law is a very niche area in this country. Not sure how International Arbitration would help me though.

Oil and Gas might look to be a more popular choice here, don't cha think?

Shipping law is quite niche in Malaysia, I daresay.

Congrats. What's the path you took after A levels leading to your pupillage now ?

May be you can share with us they performance and quality of work if you can ? Thanks.

I don't think you should take any such certificate unless you're sure you want to practice in that area. It'll be a waste of time, effort and money. Both O&G and Shipping are niche.

Would be better to concentrate on your LLB and graduate with a good degree. Thereafter, join a good firm that does a wide range of work (or a specialised area if you're certain on your choices) and let them know that you're interested in doing shipping etc. If it is really what you think you want to do, then you may consider taking up relevant courses at that stage.

To become a member of Malaysian Bar, one has to finish his/her law degree in following NZ universities.

What does Gazette mean? I am currently confusing if I should apply to UK universities or NZ universities as I really like NZ very much.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gazette

Means you must finish the degree that leads to LL.B and fulfill extra requirements published by the Government of Malaysia.

What's there to be confuse? If you like NZ very much and it's LL.B program is recognized to practice here, ain't that an obvious choice?

What will be the extra requirements? Are them listed down in advance or the related Government department will check with you after finishing LL.B program?

Yup! One thing that attracts me for pursing in NZ is their living environment and ethnics. Plus CLP and the long-going process to be a barrister in UK and Wales are exempted.

You can contact the Bar council to double check what extra requirement that's needed.

We can't be sure all the time, anyways.

You do know, it's not easy to become a Barrister in UK/Wales n etc right?

How much effect does the optional modules have on your career?

Depending on your pathway, little to none at all?

After A-levels, I enrolled into UK transfer degree program and subsequently completed Certificate in Legal Practice.

May i know is it true that A-LEVEL is hard? and can anyone rate the difficulty of A -LEVEL? all my brother is prevent me from take A-Level because they say even their friend is having a hard time to score it. I need an advice. Everyone (my father and my brothers ) told me that i`m not qualified to take A-Levels because it hard. I just wondering with SPM 6A4B is it still not enough?.. They all put me in pressure like saying all negative thing about how i am not excellent student. It really turned down my passion to study but can anyone tell me exactly WHAT CAN I DO ? i have financial problem and it seem like A-Level is cheap but they think i cant do it. Anyone please help me!!!!

May i know is A-Level hard? Because i would like to take it and it seem like my final choice.. any tips that you can suggest to me? i would like to take a-level for law

Thanks for your reply. Was it 2+1 or 1+2 programme ?

Couldn't decide between Cardiff and Sheffield.
Any suggestions?

A levels was a walk in the park in my experience. Just study hard and consistently. If people work from 9-5pm, you study from 9-5 pm, and maybe at night too.

The trick to A levels, is not through rote memory work, but in using your head to tackle the problems.

Compared to what Law school and now, the BPTC is throwing at me, I think the amount of work I put into A level exams in a month is what I do in a week. Hopefully this strained comparison would give you an idea as to what it's like.

My advice though, do not ever shun hard work and challenges.

Cardiff. Unless you like the outdoors. Sheffield is in the middle of Peak District, fantastic hiking, cycling and climbing district imho.

Academically I can't help you.

silwen,
Can you share your route in L.LB leading to BPTC ? Thanks.

is it fresh graduate? how is the performance? par-up with other graduates? thought MMU exemption of CLP is actually a qualified one..will be examined every 2 years..

shipping is rather niche,but O&G and arbitration is very prospective.especially the diploma in int arb,even the demand in malaysia not high,but numbers of certified arbitrators(MIARB) are around 35 persons only...

jst my 2 cents~

hard?
i used 9 months to finish the course,60 percents of my time working as part timer,only start study 3 months prior to exam...managed to get CCB.The thing is A-LEVEL is not like our usual exam in secondary school,it required a lot of critical analysis and thinking,and also it required a relatively high standard of english standard compared with secondary spm or pmr..

but it depends on what subject you took,rumours said that MATHS are easier,if u know chinese,you could take the chinese paper or chinese literature..(their standard is like primary school for me..=.=)..coz it doesn't matter what subject you took,as long as the result is up to the required for enrolling in degree..i took chinese,law and business studies~

since you are in this thread,implying you wanted to take LLB in future,LAW and english literature will be my recommended must take subject,coz A LEVEL law covered half of your first year subjects, and one of your second year subjects,even though it is just basic,but it could help a lot in understanding...ENG lit,why? coz it train you to read piles or piles of books,poem and increase your language level (implying you are a typical ordinary spm school leaver),having a good command in english really could ease your language barrier and burden a lot..i know coz i suffered and went through it by hardway...

This post has been edited by wong6516: May 10 2013, 09:45 PM

I wanted to ask what can we do,if in a situation of passed LLB but still not yet finish CLP?
coz I am facing some financial constraint after finish LLB,and in need to gather some money to cover up my cost and expenses to study CLP,is it possible to full time working for one year and study back again CLP later? or better,working while studying?

From what advised from some of my senior,the only way to earn money with a single LLB cert is to became a lecturer,but subject to the result,only 2:1 and above is likely to be employed..other than that,the LLB without CLP is just a piece of plain paper with your name on it.. even worst if got 2:2 and below,it will be like a piece of toilet paper ...no offence,but that is what my seniors told me..

I was wondering about this too.. and whether its possible to work in private sector, dealing with legal procedures in law firms etc if we only have LLB and no CLP. Would appreciate if anyone can give their input

This post has been edited by vanessv: May 10 2013, 10:33 PM

i could clear your doubt on this,some of my friends manage to get position as legal clerk,but i would say it highly depending on your social network...coz almost,99 percents of my friends got those position by ways of father's company,father's friend's company,and etc...in normal situation wise,i think it is possible but...unlikely...

coz malaysia law and uk/nz/aus law has huge differences in procedural...

This post has been edited by wong6516: May 10 2013, 10:42 PM

Legal clerk means they do not step into court but only do legal paperwork etc is it? Is their pay very low? And it is not the type of job they are planning to stick to for the rest of their career right?

And about the differences in legal procedures, do you mean that employers prefer those with knowledge of Malaysian law?Thanks

Why not?

My frens has a Law degree, took a 2 year hiatus and work for HSBC before leaving to London to pursue BPTC.

Thou I am not really sure how much of his works are related to laws, but generally, you could, work.

Being a paralegal, yes.

Going to court, nope.

Legal Clerk gets paid around 1,5k ~ 2,5k depending on how thick your cables are....

Best to say, if you only have LLB and no CLP, try to obtain a sponsor for you to finish CLP

This post has been edited by chiahau: May 11 2013, 12:20 AM

yup,paralegal..pay i would quote chiahua reply,depends on how thick your cables are....if you could serve like karpal singh,probably you prospect is better than an ordinary lawyer..

for paralegal i think so,but not for lawyers..in my opinion,the strength of overseas law graduates is language,english especially and also quality or performance or way of analysis...the weakness will be sucks in BM and lack of knowledge in malaysia law procedure or vise versa if public graduates.Again this rather subjective,a person could possibly master both languages,and have wide ranges of legal knowledge...

Be in mind that,in malaysia lower court probably use malay as the main official language,so you could see a lot of chambee actually work as a translator in law firms when chambering..

no other options other than sponsors?....it is kinda hard thou,there are lots of graduate every year..working in HSBC for banking? are ur friend having other qualification rather than only LLB?

This post has been edited by wong6516: May 11 2013, 12:38 AM

Just LLB.

Now pursing BPTC and another professional qualification all the way

A levels- 3 sciences and math
LLB- just trolled around and didn't study much. I went cycling, climbing and running. Saw the sights and read some non-law related matters throughout the year.
Got into the BPTC- now it's tough stuff. Hope to pass it.

I note that I was relaxed and active through A levels, being social and active.
Uni was a little harder; reading was wide and deep, never had time to finish everything so I had to pick and choose my focuses in studying. I behaved more reclusively. I do recall regularly running about 40km a week though, so that consumed quite a lot of time and energy. Had an injury, gave up running and took up cycling and did about 100+km a week of it. You can imagine I am not the most focused of students.

As for the BPTC, intellectually it's not massively challenging but the work is voluminous. It's a very hands on course and I am enjoying it thoroughly.

In terms of hours of work per week, A levels 30-40 hours.
Uni- up to about 50 or so hours, got away with 35-40 most weeks and about 60 during exam periods.
BPTC- 60 hours a week consistently; no holidays. Hardest thing I have done to date.

If work for the next 40 years is like the BPTC is in terms of having to daily absorb new material and law, I'll could foresee burn out. Even my tutors who are part time judges find the course fairly demanding.

Hope this gives you some sort of gauge.

I would concur with you on the matter of having to use Malay as a medium. Frankly, it's something many struggle with in transition. The lack of knowledge is easily remedied. Analytical ability however, is more of a gift, shall we say, less nurture and more nature in that.

Having to refamiliarise with myself with malay however, is a challenge one has to accept and in all hope, master; frankly though, language is not my forte.

Thanks for the insight. You did all A level, L.LB in London ? Is it difficult to get a place for BPTC ?

Was told that A level Law is a soft subject, therefore do not take it if one wants to take L.LB ?

chiahau,
Which other professional course is your friend pursuing ? Thanks.

Does the wages from your part time work enough to cover your stay and studies over there ? Thanks.

Pardon, I don't mean work, I meant studies = work. If you have time to work proper, you're looking at some really tough time. However, I do know people who work and they did ok, no time for hobbies though.

I decided to do my A levels in KL and went on to do my undergraduate degree in the UK.

As for the BPTC, I had 3 offers from the three schools I applied to, 2 of them were in London and one regional. Based on hearsay, this is relatively uncommon; most only get 1 offer. I did my applications in 2 very stressful days (don't leave it to the last minute).

Also, nobody recommends, and it is often discouraged actually, that one do A level Law. Frankly though, I would just go for what I feel most comfortable with in A levels (I did 3 sciences because I knew I was good at that).

soft in the sense of less burdensome and relatively easier subject? dont think so,coz the pass rate is like 60-65 percents only..indeed,if you compare to LLB,there is for sure a huge gap of difference in the depth and wide of the syllabus..but certain topics in alvl actually covered up more than LLB,examples,like civil justice sytem of common law in LLB only cover small part of ADR,but in alvl there is a standalone chapter of it..

so i would say,alvl LAW could gave you a broad concept of what will be facing in LLB,its syllabus covered basic tort,contract,public and common...the only disadvantage is there will be a little bit boring when starting first year,coz everything is like dejavu,keep repeating...

however,for me it is more of a bane than a boon..

discouraged? why said so?

This post has been edited by wong6516: May 11 2013, 11:31 AM

He's branching into Financial side, so it's likely ACCA/ICAEW

Suffice to say that it is not difficult to get a place into BPTC in the UK so long as you meet the requirement ? Thanks.

For A-levels, i wouldnt think it is necessary for you to take law. My opinion is that you may still take more non-law subjects. Firstly, it enhances your general knowledge; secondly, once you started LL.B, its going to be law all the way. A-levels wouldnt be difficult, just go ahead!

Anything is easy when you surpassed the requirements.

It's whether they want to accept your money or not

That is probably more untrue than it is true. I do know of people who, despite getting the required results, didn't get a place, equally vice versa.

Also, do not be fooled into thinking that a 2:2 will suffice. If your predicted results are below 2:1, you're just not getting in. You could get unlucky in the exams and get a 2:2 but if you already have an offer, you're fine.

I was told by one of the providers that if they thought the student will only get a 2:2, they won't make an offer.

Also, I suspect and do believe that a significant chance depends on your referees and your admissions essays. Believe me, they read your application.

Nevertheless, given that most applicants have a place, I should think it's not difficult.


This post has been edited by silwen: May 12 2013, 01:53 AM

Relating to the post on why it's discouraged- I recall a lecturer saying about half a decade ago that it's because A level law tends to distort the idea of what the LLB offers. It's more academic, and there are more discussions on the matter of the law and the philosophy behind it; the lecturer thought that the A level law was all about rote memory work. Their words, not mine. I merely parrot what I have heard.

It's considered a soft subject, I believe, because ti does not require the same amount academic and intellectual ability to do well in, otherwise stated, not as challenging as the traditional subjects.

Hi guys, are the years of the cases a must in an exam?

Has anyone read law in Australia and subsequently practising in Oz ? What's the path to enroute for one to practice over there ? Thanks.

Hi guys, im a 1st year and having sem break soon. Need guidance from you all regarding the law intern.
Any recommend as to which firm likely to accept people from 1st year? What's the min duration for the intern? and usually what do you do as an intern?

Can anyone pls share available scholarships for llb students?

Btw, my results for As are considerably average. 2c. Going for A2 exams this two months. Pretty discouraged by my results. Advice for possible universities? Among my targets include nus and taylors.

Damn its hard to score LLB subjects here in UM . Everybody aims for "pass" only . Haha

Hi guys. I'm a matriculation student who recently got called for an interview to study law at UM. Has anyone here gone through the same interview? I'd like some guidance on how to prepare for it. Thanks.

Get a waiver from the university itself, if possible.

If your results are decent enough, they won't really mind.

Izzit that tough?

Or are the students plain incompetent?

Just be yourself, and explain what you think is right.

Don't bother pretending someone you are not.

Generally, do research on recent litigation cases/important changes to the laws and etc, and do some general reading.

You're likely good to go.

Thanks for the advice. Btw, could u recommend any websites which contain litigation cases/important changes to the law??
Cheers.

Google is your best friend hahahahaha.

Sorry if I'm harsh but I'm really against spoon-feeding nowadays, since when you are a lawyer, people won't bother to feed you with anything but BS

For start, read the Malaysian Constitution and check out the latest laws and subsections. Others, you can think of it yourself

Haha. Well it was worth a shot asking I guess. Thanks for the extra advice though.

Hi anyone can teach me how to calculate GPA for law paper?

My username should be very familiar to most(ALL!!) law students.

Hi. I am planning to take a level for law in ATC next month. But i have no idea that I should take 3 sub or 4sub. Is there any difference or effect? Scholarship and etc.... Is that hard to get 3.5 and above in A level?

Just a word of caution from a future enrolling Law student.

ATC's has many issues, if not millions.

BAC would be a better option. Try asking some alumni's bout it. I won't divulge further.

Regarding A-level, take the amount of subjects you are comfortable with..

Ok. Thanks... But the amount of subject won't affect much? Like three sub is better than four sub?

Hi sorry if this has been asked.. Normally what is the job scope for paralegal?
And what kind of interview will they conduct? What type of questions will be ask?
To anyone who have gone through this can give some advice.

I'm currently completed my final year of degree. So while waiting for result I was thinking to find myself a job in a firm for few months.
As I notice most internships are only for weeks, so don't think will go for internship.

Can someone tell me more about paralegal.

Is University of Wolverhampton(UK) recognized for CLP exams by he LPQB board in Malaysia? because It isn't in the list of qualified and recognized law degree from the UK for the purpose of CLP exams by LPQB, just curious.

I did my Sijil Pelajaran Malaysia, followed by UOL Diploma in Law, then moved on to the 2nd Year of my LLB upon passing the UOL Diploma in Law, and now I have completed my LLB Degree from the UK. It took me a year to complete the UOL Diploma in Law followed by a year for my LLB 2nd Year and then a year for my LLB 3rd final year. I have also done the required LAN MQA Mata Pelajaran Wajib subjects locally in Malaysia. Is it possible for me to qualify to sit for the CLP exams? I am a Malaysian.

Thank You

Anyone studying law degree at INTI? How is the teaching quality? Among BAC, HELP and INTI, which school should I choose? Which is better?

Thank you for sharing

BAC should be the clear choice no?



So many BAC students here such as thecagedbird and etc.

Do anyone have sample of resume and cover letter which can be use for reference? Can show it to me.

I did an attachment with one of the bigger law firms in KL during my sem break in first year - IINM, most law firms do take in first year students for attachment programs, it's just a matter of sending in your CV and expressing interest in learning Min duration varies from a couple of weeks to a month, confirm with the respective firm. Some are quite flexible with the dates as well.

As an attachment student, you'll most likely be asked to do some basic research, draft some letters, follow a superior to watch court proceedings, etc. Again, it's up to the firm on the program they have outlined for attachments. But it's nothing too heavy, as long as you are familiar with online research databases.


Even the lecturers themselves have admitted that the marking system is strict, as compared to other universities. The syllabus itself isn't something that tough (as long as you keep up with classwork and required reading), but the examiners are really looking for something beyond that - they need answers to really reflect critical thinking skills and independent thought - which yeah, isn't something products of the local education system are exactly well known for So it cuts both ways...

From your reply, I'll assume that the students are incompetent till proven otherwise then.

UM is definitely not known for strict markings system. More like hypocritical marking system, where marks are lowered to allow more passes and less A's instead.

I've met a lot of students from UM doing various majors and most of them manage to come to this conclusion too

Either way, as long as they are competent to practice law in the near future, that's good enough.

Don't know if this is the suitable thread but here goes:

I will be graduating soon (in 1 year) with a LLB degree (MMU).

I am starting to consider working in Singapore but i heard that there isn't much career advancement.

Anyone knowledgeable enough to shed some light on this question? Salary and position wise, in particular.

Or would you recommend me to just work in Malaysia instead?

Any reply is much appreciated, thanks in advance =).

This post has been edited by Edermask: Jun 5 2013, 09:57 PM

Is Cardiff University recognized by the Malaysian Bar Council?

Ah well, when over 90 out of 110 competent-enough students fails a particular not-too-tough law subject... that definitely says something

But in any case, it seems unreasonable to lump all "UM students" to be "plain incompetent"... the same way it'll be unfair to lump all private institution-going students to be "rich kids"

This post has been edited by kelvinthetermite: Jun 6 2013, 05:54 PM

Search for the v1 of the thread.

Academic lawyer has explained the plight of *Lawyers* in Singapores.

Maybe that's not 100% true but generally, it's a rough picture.

You could check with the Bar Council website or the 1st page of the thread right?

1 bad apple spoils the whole bunch, brah.

Not saying all are incompetent, but a majority anyways.

Regardless of how incompetent they are thou, they are likely to be able to secure a job in today's market due to the fact that they are from UM

Ah well.

Can't seem to find it on the first page but got my answer.

I'm currently thinking of entering Taylors for law as the application for NUS has recently closed. Any students from taylors uni could perhaps give a review of the law programme there? If possible, would like to know more about the twinning programme as the websites are pretty unclear.

Also, do pls share your experience studying law there. Thanks

Why Taylors?

Most people here are either from BAC/ATC or public universities.

BAC/ATC offer twinning too, albeit to UK

If you think that the quality of education in Taylor would be higher, you're wrong in some sense.

To give you a quick answer, you could always just go to Taylor's and ask.

I'm sure they have tonnes of fancy consultants that are sure and willing to answer your question.

Mainly because it offers a university/campus experience. If i'm not mistaken, bac/atc only offers UK transfer and not twinning.

But anyways, thanks for your reply.

A bad way to choose a university is to based it on campus experience.

Anyways, good luck with your choice.

For lawyers/law students here - A quick question of the day to boost your minds.

Are ALL contracts by MINORS deemed void?