Hi Keimieko,

Are you opting for a UK Law Degree or otherwise and upon completion of a Law Degree, will you be pursuing CLP or BPTC?

BPTC stands for Bar Professional Training Course which is UK's version of CLP. However, it is completely different from CLP. CLP is 100% theory exam based whereas BPTC is both theory and practical based. BPTC is a training programme to ensure that Bar students acquired the skills of a Barrister.

Correct me if I am wrong;

You wanted to finish your Law degree in Malaysia. These are the few possibilities that I could think of;
a. You will be studying in a public university for a law degree (Malaysian Law)
b. You will be taking CLP exempting course in MMU (Malaysian Law)
c. You will be taking External UOL (UK Law, but you can complete it Full Time in Malaysia)

For the first two, CLP is incorporated into the Law Degree. Hence, you will not need to apply for CLP externally. As for c. , you will need to make sure that you are qualified as a candidate for the CLP examination before applying to sit for the exam. This is as follows;

FOR U.K. LAW DEGREE HOLDERS:

A. A minimum of 3 credits at SPM level or its equivalent obtained in one and the same examination .

The qualifications which are accepted as equivalent to SPM are as follows:
1. GCE ‘O' level examinations by the U.K. Boards;
2. the Singapore Cambridge GCE ‘O' level; OR
3. the Unified Examination Certificate (‘UEC')*.

AND

B. A minimum of 2 principal passes at STPM level or its equivalent obtained in one and the same examination . The duration of the STPM course or its equivalent shall be a minimum of 1 academic year .

The qualifications which are accepted as equivalent to STPM are as follows;
1. ‘A' level (passes at Advanced Level) by the U.K. Boards;
2. the Singapore Cambridge GCE ‘A' level; OR
3. the UEC*.

AND

C. A recognised law degree (see "WHO HAS TO SIT FOR, & PASS, THE CLP EXAMINATION?") which was studied for a minimum of 3 academic years and contain a minimum of 12 law subjects out of which you must have passed 6 core subjects (i.e. Law of Contract; Law of Torts; Constitutional Law; Criminal Law; Land Law; and Equity & Trusts which each was studied for the duration of 1 academic year). The law degree must have been obtained within 6 years of initial registration with the university (EXCEPT for the LL.B from the University of London (External) which must be completed within 7 years upon successful completion of the Intermediate Examination or a referral thereof AND you must have obtained at least a Second Class Lower law degree).

That is for CLP. Hence, to be on the safe side, it's better if you go for STPM or A-level. You would not want to waste your time studying something which is not recognised by the Malaysian bar later on.

I just recently completed and graduated from BPTC few days ago. This is my route so far.

I started off in Foundation in Arts in HELP University College and later on enrolled into UK Degree Transfer Programme in HELP as well. Then, I transferred to the UK, graduated and applied into BPTC.

Unlike CLP, BPTC only look at my Degree’s results and my English proficiency. There is no other ‘past education’ restrictions imposed when they considered my application. Hence, I took Foundation instead to save time. I only spent a total of 4 ½ year to graduate as a Barrister. This is inclusive of my Pre-university.

In regards to Public Defender, we do have it in Malaysia. It’s not called public defender; it’s called Legal Aid in Malaysia. In order to qualify as one, you will still need to graduate from a Law degree, completed a practicing certificate and called to the Malaysian Bar (every lawyer's route) .

Everything above is purely based on my assumptions. Feel free to give me more information so that I could access your situation easier. If there's any doubts, just ask away.

Regards

This post has been edited by YjLow91: Jul 8 2013, 08:16 AM

BEWARE!

My reply's gonna be super long.


1. How much did you spend for your UK Degree Transfer Programme?

If memories served me right, my first year in UK Degree was RM20k, and the second year costs me RM 22k or so. For my third year, I think it cost me about RM 100k (inclusive of student accommodation and tuition fees) This is highly dependent on which part of the UK you’re heading to. London is definitely the most expensive place overall. You might want to check with the University’s adviser as the tuition fees might have gone up over the years.


2. Is it true that going overseas would be a much easier route compared to Malaysia?

Opting for Law is never easy, being in overseas or Malaysia. It is somehow true that UK law is easier to understand. My opinion so far is that UK Law is fairly straight forward if compared to Malaysian Law and this is based on my personal experience back in my Foundation. It might not be the case for others.

The other aspect of it is that, you’ll be totally independent if you’re in overseas. Being at least 10k miles away from the family might cause you to feel homesick. This is something for you to think about.


3. Since you said you started off in Foundation in Arts, then nothing wrong starting with Foundation to be a Lawyer in future right or is it just if I take BPTC?

It is ONLY for BPTC. Unlike CLP, BPTC do not trace all the way back to my previous education routes. As long as I’m called to the Bar in the UK, I’ll be recognised as a Barrister-at-Law- of England.

NB: As to the academic requirements, this is satisfied if a candidate can show that he/she is a 'qualified person' within the meaning of section 3 of the Act. Under the Act, 'qualified person' means any person who:

a. has passed the final examination leading to the degree of Bachelor of Laws of the University of Malaya, the University of Malaya in Singapore, the University of Singapore or the National University of Singapore;

b. is a barrister-at-law of England; OR

c. in possession of such other qualification as may by notification in the Gazette be declared by the Board to be sufficient to make a person a qualified person for the purposes of the Act.


Since I fall within the (b) category, I can be called to the Bar in Malaysia after my pupillage. This is to be contrasted with CLP (as stated in my previous reply)

To be honest, the route that I took is very risky. Unlike CLP (unlimited places as long as you qualified to be a CLP candidate), students will need to submit their application online to get into BPTC. Every BPTC Provider has a limited number of spaces. Northumbria University (my provider) has only about 100 places each year. If you’re lucky, your application will be accepted. If not, then you’ll have to either go for CLP or Masters or being idle for a year and try again.

Currently, they’re making the BPTC entry requirement higher. Aptitute test is introduced as part of the entry requirement starting from 2013/14. The test is not cheap. The last time I heard was about £170 (RM 805) PER TIME. That’s the price you will need to pay over and over again until you passed the test.

Therefore, I would strongly recommend you to take STPM or A-levels unless you wanted to take the risk just like I did.


4. I would like to know how does studying law looks like? I checked some law books in bookstore and all I can see is the law name and descriptions. So do we have to memorize all the laws and have all the laws in our mind everytime or we can actually forget it for awhile and we have cases, we can check it back?

It’s about understanding the law rather than memorizing some rocket science. If you understand something, it will somehow stick in your head. I do remember the things I studied back then. There are times where I’ll need to refer, but just a brief glance through I’ll be able to recall easily. You don’t have to remember ALL the cases, just the important ones will suffice.


5. I wonder if I'm studying law, will I be with books like around 24 hours? Do I hardly will have any time for myself?

Definitely not! That’s ridiculous. Haha! You will still have time for yourself. It entirely depends on your time management skills.


6. Is law as hard as what people say? There's one of my cousin who get straight As in her SPM and took law but then she decided to change her major as she said it's very hard but there's one of my friend get only 1A in her SPM but now she's doing well so I'm really afraid if I can't do it, I don't want to waste my parents' money just like that.

It varies from persons to persons. I am interested in Law when I am introduced to it. What you can do is, take up Law in your A-levels and give it a go. If you do find yourself struggling, it’s not too late to change major and you will not be wasting your parent’s money. Just study a different degree in the future, as simple as that.


7. Actually to be honest, I would love to continue overseas after finishing my Pre-university, if the estimated total fees are affordable, I will give it a go. If it's not affordable for me, is there any scholarship? Does HELP provide any scholarship and is it tough to get scholarship? Is it based fully on our result or there's interview too?

I suggest you to look into this website for further information. This is the full list of types of scholarships provided by HELP University College. This is for the studies in Malaysia. http://www.help.edu.my/images/types_of_scholarships.pdf

As for scholarship in the UK, you will need to find out from the University you intended to study in. HELP University has 9 partner Universities in UK.

1+2 Transfer Arrangement

University of Manchester
University of Sheffield

1+2/ 2+1 Transfer Arrangement

University of Leeds
Cardiff University
University of Liverpool
Aberystwyth University
Northumbria University
University of West of England, Bristol
University of Hertfordshire


8. In your opinion, which is better? Legal Aid or a normal lawyer? I know there are types of Lawyer out there right, for example Solicitor, Legal Aid, Prosecutor etc and are there any other that I don't know too?

It is still very early to decide which one you’re going for. When I first started off, I thought that I would end up working with the Prosecution. I changed my mind somewhere haha. It’s good to have a rough idea on which one you’re interested in, but do not confine yourself to it. I can’t really tell if offering services under legal aid or a lawyer would be better. You have to know that Legal Aid is available for those who couldn’t afford a lawyer. The pay might not be as attractive as a normal lawyer. Then again, I can’t really be 100% sure unless I’m in the position.

You can be an advocate, solicitor, legal aid lawyer, legal adviser, mediators, arbitrators, in-house counsel. The list is huge.


Glad that I could help out. Do let me know if I've left out anything

This post has been edited by YjLow91: Jul 10 2013, 09:23 AM

It might be personal, if so, no need to answer this. Can I know do you use your own money to support the fees or you took any loan or you get scholarship? Any part-time work to support the fees? For the accommodation, HELP provides it? If I want to bring my family to live with me in the house they're providing can?

Parent’s scholarship all the way! Haha!! You can try asking for PTPTN loan but since it’s a Transfer Programme, they might not allow. None of my friends from my batch were under PTPTN as far as I remembered.
You can always take up part-time job outside the University (Malaysia) to support yourself provided it did not clash with your timetable. In the UK, the Visa clearly stated that you can only work 20 hours a week at MAX. HELP Residence only provides you a small room with a bathroom and you’ll have to pay for it monthly. If your family wanted to stay with you, I suggest you to rent a house outside which is near the university for convenience purposes. [Bangsar area or Batai]

I'm sorry as my understanding level not that good and this might be a silly question, but if for example I passed my BPTC and do I have to work in UK or what? What's the differences of Bar in the UK and Barrister-at-Law of England? Bar and Barrister is not the same? If my application not accepted, can I try apply again to get into BPTC? can you probably tell how my route would be if I started off with A-levels? I'm planning to take 4 subjects ; Law, English and what other subjects you think I should take? Should I take something easy to pass?

If you’ve already passed the BPTC, you can either apply for pupillage there or to come back to Malaysia for pupillage. It’s entirely up to you. Bar is a shortcut for BPTC or the UK Bar. Barrister is the end product. You study Bar (BPTC) to be a Barrister. You passed BPTC, and then called to the UK Bar to be a Barrister. Either way.

If your application is not accepted in the first round (in March), it automatically goes for the clearing round (after the release of your result in July). If you still did not get a place, then you’ll need to wait for the next year.

Your route from A levels will be something like this with a few assumptions;

a. A-levels->UK Degree TP -> BPTC
- Commentary: If you took this route but failed to get a place in BPTC yet you don’t want to do the CLP, you can always do your Masters first for 1 year, and then apply for BPTC again. [my friend’s current route]

b. A-levels->UK Degree TP -> CLP

c. A-levels -> MMU ( Degree and CLP incorporated together hence, don’t have to apply externally for CLP)

d. A-levels -> External UOL (UK Law, but full time in Malaysia)-> CLP

e. A-levels -> External UOL -> BPTC

I highly recommend you to take the subjects you are interested in. The interest you have will push you to score better. So, it depends on you entirely.

I already checked the link you gave me however I'm sorry again I'm not 100% understand of it. lol

Let me see.. If you’re going for scholarship for A-level’s course,

RM 13,000: 9 OR 10 A+ /As (SPM result)
RM10,000: 7 OR 8 A+/As
RM 8,000: 6 A+/As
RM 6,000: 5A+/As

For the Law Degree’s scholarship, it’s better if you approach one of the education advisers for his advice. Try contacting one of the experts in this page http://www.help.edu.my/ask-our-experts.htm...=category&id=38 I’m sure they will help you out.

If I take A-levels and I want to transfer to UK, which option you think is better? 1+2 or 2+1 ? After taking Degree, no need to do Bachelor or Master? can straight away graduated?

If you’re looking for more experiences, then of course go for 1+2. UK’s scholarship is only for tuition fees. You will need to pay for your expenses and all. If you have the funds, go for 1+2. Since this is a Transfer Programme, different universities have different entry requirements.

For instance, in order to transfer into Cardiff University, you will need to have an average mark of 60% for your 2nd year. You might want to contact the Law Department @ HELP to find out more about it. The requirements may have changed since the time I left HELP 2 years ago.

Silly you. UK DTP is a Bachelor’s Degree (normally known as ‘Degree’). Upon completion of that course, you will be awarded LLB (Hons). LLB is Legum Baccalaureus in Latin, or Bachelors of Law(Hons).


Thanks for the appreciation. I do remember being clueless and lost when I did my own research 4 years ago and lucky you, I have no one to help me out at that time. I do know how you people feel. Since I have extra free time, why not share my own knowledge and experience out right? Being selfish won't bring me anywhere and it don't hurt to share anyway.

I did work for HELP UC during an Education Fair in Midvalley when I was in my year 2. I somehow expected this kind of questions from you.

I might get busy in another 2 weeks' time. Just let me know if you still have any questions within this 2 weeks. I'll be glad to answer your enquiries.

Have a nice day

This post has been edited by YjLow91: Jul 10 2013, 08:50 PM

I don't think PTPTN covers overseas fees tho. You should find it out yourself.

Student accommodation in the UK is provided by the University in UK, not by HELP. For instance, Northumbria University's website for accommodation is this ; http://www.northumbria.ac.uk/brochure/faci.../?view=Standard . You'll need to apply through the university.

I'm staying in student Accommodation which cost about £118 per week (en suite room with own bathroom, but with shared kitchen) I think student accommodation is more convenient because most of it is really near to the university and the price includes bills, internet and council tax. You'll just need to move in, that's it. If anything's broken, the management team will repair it for free, unless it's your own fault.


The single en suite rooms are not that small. You have your own space, a queen size bed and your very own toilet. Speaking about blissfulness


Have a look at this. It's soooo catchy hahahah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mTbofSUBso




This post has been edited by YjLow91: Jul 12 2013, 09:20 PM

Even if they 'ship' you to King's College, most probably they will only cover your tuition fees and not expenses.

Staying in London is more expensive than staying in Newcastle. The price for student accommodation in London is £243/week and a friend of mine spent £ 1,500 per month ONLY on food. Therefore, £118 is considered really cheap.

You might want to reconsider staying in London.

As for 0.44, hell no that I've studied that amount of books in a time ! I'll be insane before I became a barrister ahaha!!

I would also recommend you to take UOL if you think transferring to the UK is expensive. After your LLB, then you can decide whether you want the CLP or the BPTC.