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Prospective Law Students Gateway V2, A basic guide to become a lawyer
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S_SienZ
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Sep 24 2014, 11:35 AM
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Getting Started

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QUOTE(shaynewai @ Sep 23 2014, 09:48 AM) Hi, I'm now taking CLP course, but I dont know what textbooks are recommended as my lecturer keep promoting his own textbooks and keep making reference with it @@ Kindly advice. Just buy the book if it makes your life a lot easier. If you're going into practice, you'll be spending a lot on books anyway.
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S_SienZ
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Nov 6 2014, 10:27 PM
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Getting Started

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QUOTE(Jay Chua CC @ Nov 6 2014, 02:47 PM) My brother is currently sitting for STPM. He is interested in laws but he is from science stream. Current result is all subject- Bs and Muet band 5. Is this ok for him? Btw,regarding the career in laws from what i read from a few sources, they focus mainly on practising as a lawyer. Are they any other routes other than being a lawyer? What i meant here is profesional careers not clerk etc. CLP is only for those who want to be lawyers ? Thanks. Science stream = no problem. Most of the best students were from science stream anyway, since a lot of secondary schools auto place all their best students there. Have not taken MUET before, so I don't know how good a band 5 is. You qualify for any other corporate job, and if you're the best of the best, you can still go for investment banking or consultancy if you want very good money as a fresh grad. CLP is only for those who want to practice as lawyers.
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S_SienZ
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Nov 28 2014, 12:30 AM
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Getting Started

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QUOTE(MasBoleh! @ Nov 27 2014, 07:30 PM) Somebody asked me this question, as we all knew MMU is the only private U that do not require to undergo CPL. SO, he asked me, 'If you are a company or whatsoever, will you look for someone who got CPL or you will looked for those who studied those courses that do not require CPL?" His logic is , CPL is here to set a strict standard to be lawyer. So it may be better than those who straight studies 4 years and do not require CPL to practice laws. Clp and Bar grads are more sought after than MMU generally Your friend is right in this regard. However not all courses exempt from clp are looked in a lesser light by employers. Top students from um and ukm are just as employable as foreign grads so long as you play your cards right.
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S_SienZ
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Dec 1 2014, 11:41 PM
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Getting Started

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QUOTE(chiahau @ Dec 1 2014, 07:49 PM) To be really honest with you, you'll probably not get a job after you are done with your BPTC in UK. It's nearly impossible to get a placement ( IIRC - That's around 2~3 years ago ). You can of course, use the time there as an experience. If you intend to practice in M'sia, CLP is a must anyways. I don't see it as a disadvantage at all, tbh. CLP isn't a must if they've done their BPTC. He's probably asking about the benefits about BPTC because they actually learn advocacy, rather than CLP where it's all theoretical at best. In my opinion, BPTC not worth it if you're good enough to pass CLP and money is a concern. If you're serious about litigation, finding a good master to learn from will more than make up for the lack of advocacy training from BPTC. Spend that one year while doing CLP looking around the local firms.
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S_SienZ
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Dec 1 2014, 11:52 PM
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Getting Started

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QUOTE(chiahau @ Dec 1 2014, 11:48 PM) You'll need to complete 3 stages to finish BPTC. It's nearly impossible to get pupilage for SEA students like us because we are technically 3rd rated there ( Brits 1st, EU 2nd and Rest of the world ) and with the high numbers of local students there, you can bet the waiting list is even longer today. So yeah, assuming that a person won't do their BPTC, CLP is technically a must for a person to practice law in M'sia.. I honestly think unless the person is a top student, reading law in a top Inn in UK and have pretty decent network to stand a chance to be called up to the Bar, BPTC is an expensive way to spend hard-earned money. In fact, recently saw a few people do did Masters in commercial law or stg but still can't really get a job there. And oh, work permit's an arse to get in the UK  There are plenty of lawyers who did the BPTC and came back to do their pupilage here though. So while I'm not personally acquainted with the process (having gone down the CLP route myself), I don't think it's accurate to claim that CLP is a "must", at least the way things are for now.
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S_SienZ
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Dec 2 2014, 12:14 AM
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Getting Started

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QUOTE(chiahau @ Dec 2 2014, 12:10 AM) Honestly, how much Quids will it cost to do BPTC until pupilage stage? 10~20k? Maybe more? As I mentioned, I'd rather go find a good law firm that could offer good learning curve and do my CLP here rather than burning tonnes of Quids and coming back to M'sia ( to earn back ringgits to cover back the cost spend in Pounds) and get a job. I'm pretty sure you are well versed with how well lawyers ( Fresh grad esp ) are paid here, no?  Hence, my previous advice of taking CLP if money was a concern (it isn't for quite a lot of people who did their full 3 years in UK). Some people take it for odd reasons though. I know people who took it because they were worried about CLP's pass rate. I also know people who simply wanted to spend a year longer in UK. I suppose networking COULD be a reason to do it if money wasn't an issue. I'm well aware about the local pay, lol. Friend of mine just got an incredibly crappy offer. (RM900, expected to work til 10pm daily)
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S_SienZ
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Dec 2 2014, 12:43 AM
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Getting Started

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QUOTE(chiahau @ Dec 2 2014, 12:24 AM) I concur with your advice earlier, if you notice actually. Networking is a very good reason, if it's worth it. End of the day, the person must calculate the opportunity cost on staying and leaving eventually. MYR 900? You serious? Even a legal clerk gets MYR 2,000+ at least I would assume a chambering student to get at least MYR 2,000 to match the clerk's pay  You'd be surprised. Especially in no-name firms in small towns in less developed states. From what I gather, it's incredibly tough there. Basically, it only makes financial sense to not work in KL if you're joining a firm where you have connections for a super quick partnership track.
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S_SienZ
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Mar 15 2015, 02:11 PM
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Getting Started

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QUOTE(qazhang @ Mar 13 2015, 12:09 PM) It's really hard to get into good firms unless you're bringing in large clients or good business with you into the firm. **Taking age into consideration. This. It's a different game now that you're in your later years of your career. For regular chambies, we're fresh grads and it's expected that we don't have business contacts, and there's time to slowly shape us into lawyers with our own books of business. For people taking the route you're thinking of taking, you have to possess your own book of business and/or a niche expertise of your previous field which would give you an edge over other lawyers for you to be valuable to large established firms.
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S_SienZ
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May 6 2015, 09:56 AM
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Getting Started

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LLMs imo are only worth it if:
1. It upgrades your degree in terms of prestige. (E.g. Undergraduate Liverpool > LLM Cambridge [Note: not that Liverpool is bad, just that Cambridge is well, Cambridge])
2. As qazhang said, gives you your own area of expertise.
3. You want to venture into academia one day.
In many other cases, LLMs are not only a waste of money, but actually harmful in certain cases (not really here, but I've read about it in the US job market, particularly if you're going for big AmLaw 100 firms.)
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S_SienZ
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May 6 2015, 10:57 AM
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Getting Started

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QUOTE(chiahau @ May 6 2015, 10:34 AM) LLB's are not recognized in US unless the holders are called up to the Bar in UK to be considered as equivalents to US's Bar council, no? And not all states will accept such conversion so one may have to still sit for the US State Bar Exam. Not sure about that, but to better contextualize my previous post, I was merely talking about LLMs in general. So in the US context, that would mean an LLM AFTER their postgraduate law degree. The reason why some recruiters have cited LLMs as harmful is:- 1. Employers would wonder if you did your LLM simply because you couldn't get a job. 2. They found that LLM holders with no job experience did no better at a entry level position that law fresh grads, while often expecting more remuneration. The general consensus is that LLMs are short programs that charge a lot which enables a lot of law schools to subsidise their law bachelors degree program. This post has been edited by S_SienZ: May 6 2015, 11:00 AM
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S_SienZ
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May 18 2015, 10:47 AM
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Getting Started

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Why would you want to study law of all things in the US though? Different legal system and it takes more years since its a post-graduate degree. It's worth it for them because lawyers get paid very well over there. To invest that much to come back to the relative peanuts they pay here is probably the worst decision ever.
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S_SienZ
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May 18 2015, 06:09 PM
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Getting Started

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QUOTE(mia_luvlifes @ May 18 2015, 03:33 PM) I guess you did not read my initial post. I'm sponsored to study in US, not PaMa sponsorship. I made the decision to study Law before I know I'm sponsored. Hence, the dilemma. Hence, asking for enlightenment here. Please dont treat me like a brat that makes hasty decisions, i got enough of it from other site when i simply ask for a lil' guide. But thanks anyway, for the 'worst decision' comment Someone's a tad defensive. I stand by what I said and to be honest, that's what you should bring up with your sponsor. For most local sponsors, it's a complete no-brainer. It's actually stupid on their part to insist that you study law in the US. They invest more in you and start getting ROI much later, and even the additional investment probably won't make you any better than if you were a UK grad.
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S_SienZ
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May 18 2015, 08:11 PM
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Getting Started

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QUOTE(redeemer @ May 18 2015, 07:35 PM) I dont think she has a choice though,think:u got a jpa mara offer to study in US,well lots of things are already being sponsored up to ur degree later,why would anyone wants to forgo the chance,well yeah she can do in local uni but an opportunity like that doesnt come easily.wait a question for the person who get the scholarship,is this the jpa mara scholarship because if it is,law is under social science,how are u so sure u can secure a place for law?or u can pick is it,btw u should go for it. I never said she should forgo the scholarship, but she should bring the issue to the sponsor's attention and negotiate. Like I said, it's actually an obvious choice even from the sponsor's standpoint. Avoiding the US for law saves money, time and problems of adapting to our jurisdiction for ALL parties. This post has been edited by S_SienZ: May 18 2015, 08:12 PM
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