I found this advice at the following blog and I think it is good advice. As a manager at a company that publicly recruited employees dozens of times, I primarily received communications from applicants by email and they seldom treated the email like a cover letter. They should. Of the 50 or so applicants who applied by post and sent cover-letters they were mostly generic and meaningless.

From blog http://www.joelonsoftware.com/index.html (ex microsoft manager)
Please do not use cover letters that you copied out of a book. If you write ‘I understand the position also requires a candidate who is team- and detail-oriented, works well under pressure, and is able to deal with people in departments throughout the firm’ then at best people will think you're a bullshit artist and at worst they will think that you were not born with the part of the brain that allows you to form your own thoughts and ideas.”


The following is also some good advice on how to get your resume read. From http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/ResumeRead.html

So here are a few hints to review, if you're sending out résumés.

A résumé is a way to get to the next stage: the interview. Companies often get dozens of résumés for every opening ... we get between 100 and 200 per opening. There is no possible way we can interview that many people. The only hope is if we can screen people out using résumés. Don't think of a résumé as a way to get a job: think of it as a way to give some hiring manager an excuse to hit DELETE. At least technically, your résumé has to be perfect to survive.

If you don't have the right qualifications, don't apply for the job. When the job listing says "summer intern," don't ask for a full time job. You're not going to get it and you're just going to waste your time. (It won't count against you in the future, of course, because your original application was deleted so quickly I'll have no memory of you when we do get a full time opening and you apply for it.)

OK, this one really bugs me. Learn where spaces go in relation to other punctuation. Attention, the entire population of India: whenever you have a comma, there is always exactly one space and it's always after the comma and never before it. Thank you.

In the olden days résumés were sent out in the mail and included a cover sheet on top which explained why the résumé was being sent. Now that we use email, there is no reason whatsoever to send the cover letter as an attachment and then write a "cover cover" letter in the body of the email. It's just senseless.

Even stupider is submitting two big Word documents with no body text in the email. This just gets you spam filtered. I don't even SEE these.

Please do not use cover letters that you copied out of a book. If you write "I understand the position also requires a candidate who is team- and detail-oriented, works well under pressure, and is able to deal with people in departments throughout the firm" then at best people will think you're a bullshit artist and at worst they will think that you were not born with the part of the brain that allows you to form your own thoughts and ideas.

The personal pronoun "I" is always capitalized. All sentences must end in a period. If your cover letter looks like this I will not even look at your résumé:

i m interested in your summer job.
here is my resume
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!

And while I'm on it, anonymous email accounts and AOL accounts just don't send a good message. They won't exactly disqualify you since so many people use them, but crazydood2004 at hotmail.com does not really impress me as much as name at alumni.something.edu. Do you really need to know if I Yahoo!? Do you really want to advertise Yahoo! SiteBuilder, a competitor to one of Fog Creek's products, when you're actually applying for a job at Fog Creek?

In most of the English speaking world it is not considered polite to open letters to a Mr. Joel Spolsky by writing "Dear Spolsky." One might write "Dear Mr. Spolsky," or "Dear sir," or perhaps, "Hi Joel!" But "Dear Spolsky" is usually followed by some story about embezzled funds and needing to borrow my bank account.

Don't tell me about one of the requirements of the position and then tell me that you don't want to follow it. "One of the requirements for Summer Internship says that you need to interview in person in New York City. I am interested in the position but I stay in East Nowhere, TN." OK, that's nice, hon, you stay there. Another PS, I thought we said in the requirements "Excellent command of written and spoken English." Oh, yes, indeed, that was our first requirement. So at least do yourself a favor and get someone to check your cover letter for obvious mistakes. Like I said, don't give me an excuse to throw your résumé in the trash.

I don't know why I need to spell these out because they're probably listed in every single "how to send out résumés" book on the planet, right there in chapter 1, but I still get more résumés that show an appalling lack of concern for what it takes to get an interview.

Let me try not to be so negative and provide some constructive advice.
Proofread everything a hundred times and have one other person proofread it. Someone who got really good grades in English.

Write a personal cover letter that is customized for the job you are applying for. Try to sound like a human in the cover letter. You want people to think of you as a human being.

Study the directions that are given for how to apply. They are there for a reason. For example our website instructs you to send a résumé to jobs@fogcreek.com. This goes into an email folder which we go through to find good candidates. If you think for some reason that your résumé will get more attention if you print it out and send it through the mail, that you'll "stand out" somehow, disabuse yourself of that notion. Paper résumés can't get into the email folder we're using to keep track of applicants unless we scan them in, and, you know what? The scanner is right next to the shredder in my office and the shredder is easier to use.

Don't apply for too many jobs. I don't think there's ever a reason to apply for more than three or four jobs at a time. Résuméspam, or any sign that you're applying for 100 jobs, just makes you look desperate which makes you look unqualified. You want to look like you are good enough to be in heavy demand. You're going to decide where you want to work, because you're smart enough to have a choice in the matter, so you only need to apply for one or two jobs. A personalized cover letter that shows that you understand what the company does goes a long way to proving that you care enough to deserve a chance.

Some of this stuff may sound pretty superficial. Indeed, what we're really looking for when we look at résumés is someone who is passionate and successful at whatever they try to do. We like people who are passionate about software. Writing a shareware app when you're a teenager is just as good a qualification to us as getting into MIT. This is your life story, and by the time you're applying for a job it's probably too late to change that.

Would I reject someone just because they don't quite understand the relationship between the comma and the space? Well, not necessarily. But when I have to find two summer interns out of 300 applicants, here's what I do with the résumés: I make three piles: Good, OK, and Bad. I give the same résumés to Michael and he does the same thing. There are always enough people that we both put in the Good pile that those are really the only people that stand a chance. In principle if we can't find enough people we like that we both rated as "good" we would consider some people who got Good/OK, but in practice this has never happened. Much as I'd love to be able to consider everyone on their merits instead of on superficial résumé stuff, it's just not realistic, and there's just no reason a college graduate can't get this right.

(Added 1/27/2004)

The number one best way to get someone to look at your resume closely: come across as a human being, not a list of jobs and programming languages. Tell me a little story. "I've spent the last three weeks looking for a job at a real software company, but all I can find are cheezy web design shops looking for slave labor." Or, "We yanked our son out of high school and brought him to Virginia. I am not going to move again until he is out of high school, even if I have to go work at Radio Shack or become a Wal*Mart greeter." (These are slightly modified quotes from two real people.)

These are both great. You know why? Because I can't read them without thinking of these people as human beings. And now the dynamic has changed. I like you. I care about you. I like the fact that you want to work in a real software company. I wanted to work in a real software company so much I started one. I like the fact that you care more about your teenage son than your career.

I just can't care about "C/C++/Perl/ASP" in the same way.

So, maybe you won't be qualified for the job, but it's just a lot harder for me to dismiss you out of hand.

well done

thanks for your advice..

wow right in time..

thank's for sharing the good stuff...

his is good man.. i am much appreciated

thnx for sharing...
do i need to attach cert with the resume?
if i send via email, do i need to scan my cert and attach it?

wah gila. took u guys 4 months to reply his cover-letter thread?

er. as for the cert, no need. just state in your resume enough.

you bring it along if you called for interview. sometimes they might wanna see, but usually they don't.

Something always bothers me, I'm a fresh grad and from a fresh grad, I will becoming a fresher grad later on ... I have no relevant work experience and I feel too stupid to write all my extra-curricular activities on my resume.

The problem is ... my resume is so blank that I don't even feel wanna look at it, not to say the others will consider me for any position.

hmm the link cannot be found wor.. how

http://www.i-resign.com/

I am one of the hiring manager for a giant software MNC. I like resume which are kept to a minimum (ie 1-2 pages), top 5 selling points about yourself and must catch my attention pertaining to the job you are applying. Do not beat around the bush and do not write lengthy resume. I tend to throw away any resume that is more than 4 pages. I tend to pick resume with only 1-2 pages. I do not read cover letter at all. A photo will help.

If you are fresh grad we are looking at the way you present yourself and what other extra stuff you have done besides studying (part-time work, voluntary, society and other leadership positions)

If you are an experience applicant state the many years of experience and what was achieved in those time frame. Name key projects or key wins during that time. Demonstrate % over achievement or total revenue will definitely catch a hiring manager attention.

Otherwise cross your finger and good luck.

Another question, I'm studying for Master and will be graduating soon in a year, but now I decide to take a break (a year) due to some personal reason to try to look for a job, if I can I will just work else, I will continue to study.

SHould I include my Master Degree into the education section? How should I explain/write it on the resume so that the employer knows that I have been studying for Master but incomplete? Or should I just ignore that?

Thanks in advance.

how about stating "currently in pursuit of Master In XYZ". the rest of the details give only during interview.

You are sitting on a "double edged sword". Some employers will be scared away if they think you are just on a 1-2 year school break to earn some cash before continuing your studies. Most new employees who don't have years of experience usually take at least 1-2 years before they actual become productive employees. The first year of employment can be considered a training period in which they will be lucky to get any real beneficial productive work out of the employee.

Some employers however may see your pursuit for a masters as an admirable goal and not really care much if you are only going to be with them for a year or two before returning to school.

My best advice is to be honest even though some employers may not want to touch you. If you were to not disclose this to them and subsequent leave to continue your studies as you planned all along they may be very disappointed and not give you any positive reference. It is better not to burn bridges because someday you may need to cross that bridge again.

jsm goldfries, and huikb,

Just want to ask, right now I'm able to cramp my resume into two pages.

A. Small introduction, about myself, contact number, etc. Took 1/4 of 1st page.

B. I've listed the list of project which I've done in my previous employment (my freelance project is excluded from it) which includes:
1. Project Title
2. My Role
3. Project Range Date (Start and End)
4. 3 lines Description of the Project

C. Then I list my Education starting with Professional Certification and Highest Education Achieved.

D. Lastly my list of skills, all skills which I obtained from beginner level to advance.

Previously I obtain information from Job Agencies that I should not have listed all the skills I know but only include those strong skills I have. Meaning is that, they told me that I should remove those skills whereby I'm not so familiar at or has not apply to my previous job. They also mention that, before stating the employment history, I should list out my skills first with years of experience with the skill. e.g.

Language / Year of Experience / Proficiency
ASP Programming / 2 Year / Advance
Ms SQL 2000 / 1 Year / Beginner
Windows Server 2k3 Administration / 6 Months / Intermediate

Once listed this, they also mention that I should omit D. Section in which I created in my resume. So now, if I were to follow their way of doing things, I unable to tell the employer of the range of skills I'm familiar with or at LEAST aware of.

From what I've pondered is that, such way is more suitable for IT line employees. If I were to venture into different lines, how should I present my resume?

Thanks in advance.

I was asked to provide starting and expected salary on my resume. I checked most of the sample but they do not have such info on the resume. Anyone can tell me where can I include this data? Better still any sample? Thanks.

<deleted>.

This post has been edited by p4n6: Jan 20 2005, 02:27 PM

That's because it is not common practice in gwailo country to ask about starting/expected salary for professional vacancies. To me, it sounds like the company is trying to fit you into its budget instead of trying to fit you into the role. While some companies do it out of formality, others will very quickly weed out those with higher expected salary. For instance, a company looking for a certified accountant will only pay RM2.5k max, so they dump all the applicants who asks for 3-4k then get the most qualified one at the lowest price. Why... it's almost like shopping, except you're buying humans, hahahah. *spit*

errr,how about resignation letter wor?
can anyone teach me?
or if there is a link to it...please link me to it.
thanx.

I got another question (sorry for asking too much, newbie in job seeking) ...

I saw some sample cover letter on the web but most of them sort of tell grandpa stories, too lengthy.

I was thinking whether I can be more straighforward on that? As most HR people will have to go thru so many c-letters, can I just do them a favor?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EXAMPLE:

Dear Sir/Madam:

I am applying for the position <the name> dated <date> in <wherever>.

My <number> major <experience/background/selling points> that make me suitable for the above position are:

1. <number1 requirement>:
. <1/2 line(s) explaination>

2. <number2 requirement>:
. <1/2 line(s) explaination>

3.<number3 requirement>:
. <1/2 line(s) explaination>

Additionally, <whatever else> make me suitable for this job.

I look forward to hear from you soon.

Yours sincerely,
<my name>

Enc.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Is it alright? I know I never see bullets and numbering on Cover letter ... but if it hits the target of what the HR wants to see ...

Just asking for opinion.

This post has been edited by p4n6: Feb 2 2005, 03:56 AM

p4n6, making your cover letter short is good. I'm not sure how will itemizing your skill sets go over with HR, especially those in malaysia, but they will definitely look at your's first and dumping those 20-page resumes into the paper shredder.

Additionally, you can actually look up templates on how to write resumes and cover letters at the microsoft office website. i don't have the link, use google ya lazy maggot

actually, i think your CV must supply sufficient information.

if your information can be displayed within 2 pages, then 2 pages it is. this is not an essay that you need 5000 words. if it needs 10, then 10 pages it is. no need to write grandparent stories and how your kitten helps you with your work.

refer to Post #11

They will not look at your resume (eventhough it's 1 page length) if they are not happy with your Cover Letter or you are not what they are looking for based on your Cover Letter. So, cover letter is more important than a resume.

For Engr student:

Another important thing is that, if you are applying to a big corporation, the HR probably will not know what the hell you are writing on the resume, so make sure they can see what they are looking for - req on the newspaper (BOLD) ... If they find that you are suitable, then a technical expert will be asked to view your resume, here they will read the explaination you write (be short and concise).

I do not like to follow cover letter template because they do not have the style that I want or suitable to include what I wanted to say. A business student's cover letter will somehow different from a engineering student. And different type of engineering study probably have different style and things that they want to present to make their Cover Letter looks impressive. And to me, cover letter is a what-you-want-what-i-write type of letter, using a template is pretty difficult to achieve that.

I wouldn't go so far as to say a cover letter is more important, I'd like to think of it as a complement to your resume. Now if you write a bad cover letter, HR might still take time to glance at your 1 page resume. But if you wrote a good cover letter, it wouldn't be read because when a big stack of paper is taken out of the envelope it will just get a big laugh from the office and goes straight to the thrash bin.

You can't be selling all your skills in the application, leave that for the interview. Your concern will be securing an interview in the most effective manner.

The length of a resume should not be more than 2 pages, and try your best not to exceed one for freshgrad. This is a very common understanding from any book or website or advice given. I really doubt you have so many things to write ... if you really do, I believe you should save it for the interview. I will really recommend 2 pages MAXIMUM.

I would not like to talk about a good cover letter and a 20-pages resume, which I think is quite ridiculous. I prefer to talk on a more common and realistic example. Let say 1 page cover letter and a 2-page resume.

Do i have to thank the person after he/she scheduled a interview with me ?( the interview hasn't taken place yet)

This post has been edited by Excel: Mar 4 2005, 04:06 PM

i'd like to say yes, but then if everyone starts doing it, then it loses it touch doesn't it? Unless you really really really want to work for that company, you'd write back a thank you note, and a special one too! Most people don't care if you write a thank you note or not and you are probably forgotten the moment you walk out of the door. Unless you are a good candidate for shortlisting.

it's so useful for me.. coz just quit a job and need to look for a job already.. THX!

this thread is very helpful i must say coz im about to start on my resume and my cover letter as well. Wish me luck!

http://213.186.36.10/~al/alstudio/cv/en.htm

damn nice CV. didn't think it warrants a new thread here, but i can't help but show how CVs are not limited to word documents.

probably i'll make my CV into an FPS.

I think it will only work for certain jobs. So do not follow this type of CV if you are applying to management level position ...

Try below attached e-book for how to write cover letter, resume, follow-up, etc.
Hope can help you all.


Attached File(s)
 Making_Resumes_Cover_Letters.pdf ( 385.58k ) Number of downloads: 5802

Yeah this one i want... TQ a lot!!!

I have heard the success of job application nowadays are more dependent on relationships, i.e. if you got somebody to recommend you in the company, chances are you most likely get it.

If some outside applicants send letter and resume to the HR through email or by normal mail without anybody to recommend them, most likely they will be ignored.

Is this true?

If this is true then how do we apply to a company without knowing anybody inside?

It is true that the best way to get a job is through your network of contacts. Sending applications through email /normal mail is not particularily effective.

You need to build a network of contacts starting with your friends and family and extend it to include the companies you wish to work for. Attending trade-shows is one way of extending your network. Sometimes all it takes is a phone call to someone else in that company that you may not even know to give you the name of a person they know who is hiring.

There is a trade show coming up - manufacturers, just on the newspaper The Star 12 April edition. I think its free. Its an advertisment. You have to order the tickets.

aiyoh, I don't know anyone, all my friends are also unemployed! Some more I was thinking, wouldn't there be some sort of performance anxiety when working, as you know the person who hired you has hired you with high expectations? Plus, if you make a mistake, they would probably blame the contact.

Not that I'm running out of confidence, but I just feel more liberated and confident when I'm on my own and know that I don't owe anyone favours.

Yes, it's true to better go inside on your own right but the hard truth is those people in HR got too many candidates until they can't screen them one by one.

So, most of the time your resume will stay in the HR mailbox for a very very long time.

he, this http://213.186.36.10/~al/alstudio/cv/en.htm[/url] is belong to whose one...wow very impressive and master piece..!!!.....funny and creative..

talking about being human being, how about if someone write this? "I've been kicked out from my house, now I'm totally homeless and jobless. If I still unable to find any job, I have no choice but to jump off from your company's building, since it is the highest object in my sight. I guess your company don't mind about a little ghost hauting here and there isn't it? But don't worry I promise my spirit won't make much noise in your company, I'll always appear silently ... "

Rewer next time u write it on ya letter k

Important tips for freshie!! Make your resume just one page length. You don't have to brag about your academics and activities. Trust me, they don't have time to look through all that.
Just a brief resume(but not too brief la) and attach your smart photo, enough! 90% depends on the job interview.

What makes you think a photo means anything to an employer for a new graduate. They are not hiring people for a modelling job. After interviewing hundreds of new grads I can say that they all pretty much look the same.

Looks is ALWAYS the first impression. They won't know your true ability and talent until they hire you. This is especially for freshie who has limited working experience.
So, they can only judge the books by it's cover. Not fair but true. No, photo not only for modelling job ma, right. That's why most application is encourage to include a passport size photo. If you are boss, of course you want to hire someone who's smart, healthy and not look like penagih dadah la....

Have you heard of...a picture tells a thousand words?

And after viewing hundreds of applications, don't you prefer the one with photo attached rather than those with just boring printed or sometimes photocopied resumes? In another word, I believe attaching a photo also exhibit self confidence. Not?

This post has been edited by Kii: May 14 2005, 10:09 PM

Nope. I couldn't care less about the photo. Any sloppy stinky unconfident person can appear decent in a photo. What always stands out to me in new graduate resumes is outstanding content. A person who truly shows an aptitude or interest often shows in the resume and will distinguish them from those who simply studied a subject because someone told them it was a good career.

If photo can deceiving, so can the resume itself. That's why I said earlier, we won't know the applicant's true identity and ability until you hire him/her. I did not argue that photo is more important than resume...but to make the resume look more complete and sincere.

Outstanding content in resume? LOL. I actually edited mine from a resume writing software and copied a few intelligent words from jobstreet.com. And then borrowed mine to a few of my friends.

Hi Guys, I have one problem that I need help from you all...I have 2 yrs working experience and now Im back for study. Therefore I undergo Industrial Training for 4 months. Now what I need is the sample testimonial for my industrial training and my working experience. I need these 2 sample. Can anyone help me? I really appreciate it..Thank you!

can somebody explain to me what is:
1. Resume
2. CV
3. Cover Letter

A resume is a one or two page summary of your education, skills, accomplishments, and experience. Your resume's purpose is to get your foot in the door. A resume does its job successfully if it does not exclude you from consideration.

To prepare a successful resume, you need to know how to review, summarize, and present your experiences and achievements on one page. Unless you have considerable experience, you don't need two pages. Outline your achievements briefly and concisely.

Your resume is your ticket to an interview where you can sell yourself.


Top 10 Qualities Employers Seek
1. Communication skills (verbal and written)
2. Honesty/integrity
3. Teamwork skills (works well with others)
4. Interpersonal skills (relates well to others)
5. Motivation/initiative
6. Strong work ethic
7. Analytical skills
8. Flexibility/adaptability
9. Computer skills
10. Organizational skills


Good luck.

I still rate communication skills up there. Most employers would like to see how you interact with them. Body Language is important, and last but not least, decent english

ppl post here that a resume should be 2 pages of length maximum. i was thinking, is it really nice to cram everything into 2 sheets of paper?

coz, wouldn't it be too saturated with information. moreover, i think to be able to do that, the font used will have to be small too. is that ok?

as for my current CV, it's in a tabular format. 5 pages long, but i only put those necessary info. it's 5 pages long coz of the table and the font use. it looks neat and clear. dunno whether it's better like that or not.
i would appreciate some comments on this matter.

1 more question. if submit CV tru email, do we still need to attach a cover letter or do we just type it in the email as though the email is the cover letter itself?

If you are a new graduate your resume should be no more than 2 pages. You do not need to elaborate at length about all the subjects you have taken but should rather focus on those details that draw attention to you as the best possible candidate.

If you are submitting your CV through email write your cover letter in the email and highlight again why you are the best person for the job you are applying for.

Hi,

1) Nobody will spend more than 5 minutes reading your resume. And, normally it will be 2 minutes. So, after 2 mnutes, people will stop reading.. It may be at page 2 or 3 or your resume and they will skip the rest..

2) I worked 20 years and my resume is only 3 pages long... How long had you work??

3) Less is more.. At most, people can only remember one thing about you..

I did sales and marketing too.. The key question is whet is your message that you are trying to put across in your resume. Summarize your message in one sentence. What makes you different from all other applicants that the company want to hire you?? What is your differentiator??

Put the message in the begining of your resume. Then, put the supporting data after that. Get someone to read your resume and time how long it take the person to read your resume. If it is more than 5 minutes, you are in trouble..

Dreamer

thanks for the tips. btw, how do we highlight that we are the best person? could you give some example pls?

I've got a question.
If I go for a walk-in interview, do I need to bring a resume with me? What if I don't? Maybe I'm too lazy to make one or something. I mean the interview is more than enough, right? What if I do bring along a resume. Would they still bother going through it?
And lets say that the interview went quite well. But my resume is like the worst resume ever. Would that blow my chance of getting employed?
Thanks for any help..

In my experience "walk-in" interviews are usually confined to the areas of "unskilled labour" or "blue-collar" work in which your previous skills and work experience are not critical. Like almost any job, the interviewer will be most interested in your attitude and aptitude which are difficult to convey on a resume. So, I believe you are likely to find that most "walk-in" interviews will not really need your resume. But of course it is best to be as fully prepared as possible including a resume.

Thanks for the info. I also want to know if a CV is the same as a resume?

In British English, CV is the standard term for what is called a résumé in American English.
Wikipedia

I would like to ask about the application methods.

Normally people nowadays apply jobs through several means:
1. Click in Jobstreet.com job postings

2. Send resume and cover letter to the company's HR email. The email address normally listed in the newspaper advertisements.

So, is it still a popular mean that applying jobs by sending normal mail, ie. resume and cover letter printed out in hardcopy form and stuffed in an envelope to be sent?

I just want to find out a formal way that make the employer thinks that I am serious about the application.

Sorry for this as I admit I really bad at marketing myself.

true, first impression is vital. If you attach a photo make sure u look smart. THe rest have to be short and simple. I was told once that i should liist out all the events i participated. This would help to characterize yourself from the interviewer point.

Pray before you meet up with the interviewer. I always do this and ask God to decide for me. If this job isn't good for me, then don't let me have it, otherwise, help me get the job. It works in the sense that you will feel more calm. Little prayers help.

every sense help i guess.

Try both.

somemore u can search thru the google for company's email, then u can send out email to them.. i got my job this way..

but most probably ur email going into sea

Agree... I think chance is bigger when we are more specific...

This is a sample of a resume I found online. I'm wondering if its ok if I use this kind of format. Or is it too simple? It does not include the cover letter does it? What does " Resume reference:" mean?

My opinion is... it's too simple ... haha.... No, that definitely doesn't look like there's any cover letter in it..

She could have written more specifically about her job skill and the experience from her training period is definitely worth mentioning in details it all of them are relevant to the job....

This looks like a general resume and it seems that she doesn't have any plans regarding the jobs she wants... She mentioned basic computer skills but how basic is her basic? Knowing how to start/close a program? She mentioned her extra skills like good at teaching, outgoing and flexible... Again, why she said she is good at things she said? No examples... I am a fresh graduate with little experience is not advised to be mentioned because in some employers eye, you may seemed like you have low self esteem...

About the rest, I can say that she miss details and details is important...

Anyways, this is just my opinion... Perhaps you can wait for answers from more experienced ppl like joblisted or dreamer

Thanks for the feedback Geminist. Indeed it does look a bit simple....

I read from somewhere that it is better to print your resume using a laser printer and high quality paper. Is this true? I only have a cheap printer and some normal A4 papers at home. Won't that do?

Hi,

That is a very poor excuse!!! Nowaday, even a cheap inkjet printer can print at 1,200dpi and match the quality of a laser printer. Are you trying to tell us that you are not resourceful enough to solve this problem???

Dreamer

Eh..not really. I was just asking but thanks for the reply.

Hi,

If you are going to use inkjet printer, make sure that the paper that you use is compatible with inkjet printing. Most normal 70g copy paper is not compatible with inkjet and it will smear..

Dreamer

Do I list my references in my CV or do I put "References available upon request"? I've got conflicting views about this from some websites. Any ideas guys?

Hi,

I don't list my reference and I do not put "Reference available upon request" on my resume unless it is a requirement in the job posting.

Dreamer

i have always put my references in it as i have nothing to hide about my previous job.

being professional is one thing, being street smart enuf to let ya previous boss knows that he be getting a call soon and hope he will help you out , thats another thing.

of course, u have to make sure of your creditability therefore having references have never post any worries

Hi mwtang,

I am sorry to tell you that if I am reading your CV and I find your reference in it. It will raise a red flag in me. I might be strange or abnormal but I am telling you honestly what that will do to me.

There is a famous Chinese proverb, "There is no 300 ounces of silver here". People that has good creditability do not need a reference.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Aug 25 2005, 09:36 PM

its entirely up to u, but so far it got me to where i am.
being smart or ethical wont get u far,....regardless to that one must always have the creditability.

i once was taught, its not how much u know is how u know and whom u know that would measure how far u go...

btw my references are ppl who are once listed in who's who in this world..check it out...

i am not belittling my creditability...or yours.

Hi mwtang,

If I am not mistaken, you claimed that you have 20 years' working experience in Malaysia. If that is true, you should be well known in Malaysia. This is a very small country and IT community is very small. In that case, why do you need to put up any reference??

Dreamer

mate u got the wrong guy, never once i claimed to have 20 yrs of expierence...
btw, i am not in the IT community...
putting reference for me is to show that

1. I want the HRor the interviewers to know more from my previous boss on the jobs i have done.

2. salary justification

3. shows that i am capable and flexible, its not easy to ask the MD of a big firm to be in your panel.

btw, cheer up mate, i am just expressing my thoughts and religuishing my expierence .

as i put it before, i have no control or speech set for my MDs to say anything, if they feel i am not capable for the job i am interviewing, so be it.

Hi,

Am I correct to assume that you got your degree from UK??

I am just giving you my honest opinion from an Americanized person and how would an American MNC will react.

Dreamer

UK ? Ulu Klang ? hehehehe nah...
I agree american MNCs would react such a way but this is malaysia.
As you know the business culture here is not something to be proud of but hey, i have to make a living.

cheers

Hi,

In general , Malaysia is such a small country that in almost any profession, after you reach certain level of seniority, people will know you or someone that know you. There is only a few degree of separation between almost anyone in the profession.

If the MD likes you, he/she will not only be your reference. They could call up/contact the relevant person in your future employer and get you hired. With that kind of connection, you will only fill up the job application form after you are hired.

And, that kind of stuff had happened to me before for a few times.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Aug 25 2005, 09:57 PM

hmmm.....true but i yet to have such moments. hehehe

so far, the comments were good and i appreciate it.

Hey,
I got this example from another site. I want to know if its ok to end my cover letter something like this:

Aware of my lacking experience, I determine to learn faster, work harder and commit more so that I can quickly come up to speed in making profit to your company. One benefit of having lack experience is I haven't learnt any bad habits that other applicants may have acquired; therefore I will only do it in YOUR WAY as thats the only way I'll know.

One thing these pieces of paper can't show you is that I'm a NICE guy. Really! I know you need someone who has emotional intelligence, and works and communicates courteously with other team members -- that's me. With this in mind, I would welcome the opportunity for an interview so I can meet you face to face and get a better idea on what you're looking for and for you to see how I might 'FIT' into your company.

wow.... something different...

Hi,

Let's start with the basic fact. The person who is reading this letter is a stranger. He/she does not know anything about you. You can say whatever about yourself: determination, nice, work harder and etc, it means absoultely nothing!!! Where is the proof??

If you are really hardworking, you should have done your homework and you know specific things about the company. For exmple, if you are applying to Apple computer and you have done your homework, you know that Apple value innovation and industrial design. You would have said that I believe I am a good fit to Apple culture because I value human factor design. And, I have done so and so design work to prove this,

The information had to be specific to the company and specific to what you had done to prove that you are a good fit.

I had read so many cookie cutter cover letter that I can smell a BS from a mile away.

You need to read your own letter like a total stranger and ask yourself if you are a skeptical stranger would you belive what is written in this letter??

Dreamer

Ha...thanks for the feedback, dreamer101.

true...take it from the old timer...

Hey..I need help here.
I wanted to try out something different so I'm applying for a position as a management trainee after getting my degree in computing. The problem is I don't know what to list out as my skills since most of my skills are computer related such as C++, Java, Linux, SQL, MS Office, Macromedia, Rational Rose, Adobe Photoshop, ect, which I think has nothing to do with the management trainee position. I've worked as a sales admin for a few months and I've developed communication skills so maybe I can add that in.
What else should I add? I've never managed any big projects or anything.

Hi,

Have you ever been a scout?? Have you organized any event before during school days?? Have you ever manage a group of people to do something?? Are you in any knid of team sports??

Dreamer

I've never been a scout but me and my friends did get together to plan and open a stall selling stuffs during a fair. I mentioned in my cover letter that I used to be the group leader during group projects and during that time I've developed project management skills, documentation writing skills and meeting deadline but I'm not sure if that should be included or repeated in the resume.
As for team sports, I used to be in a football team that always loses.
Should I put Good Learning Ability and Good Time Management Ability as my strenghts or skills? Now I'm confused.

Hi,

You need examples of how you lead/manage people.

Dreamer

I'll try to think of some. Thanks!