New Thread. Please post stuffs related to the topic. Talk to us about your routines and all. Share the love.


cheers fellas

This post has been edited by shanecross: Mar 19 2010, 10:26 AM

OOO nice............I train like a man.

I train to be like pizzaboy... =.=

We need something to discuss. Something proper. Maybe we should stop posting stuffs on BB thread because I sort of agree with chris. We don't want to let the beginners confuse themselves between bb and pl or even wl. Try not to spam. We got reasonably credible people around to talk training. So lets start things off fellas.

I think most of the beginners would wanna know, wats the main difference in bodybuilding and weightlifting.
In my opinion the difference are:
1. Goals (one for strength, while the other is physical appearance
2. Diet (bb tend to focus more on their diet)
3. Routine (bb does all the body parts isolations, pl focus on wat does the job)

Haha... dunno wat else. =.=

but powerlifting and bbing is somehow interrelated

my thought of powerlifting
Lift to be strong
Focus mainly on compound
The training looks very fun, like tire flipping

BBing
Lift to looks nice
Focus alot on isolation
must have a really good diet

But there is alot of bb'er incorparate powerlifting training style into BB

and there is few well known BB'er was powerlifter
Eg Arnold and Ronnie

and not to forget there is still one category called crossfit, shall we have one more thread for that as well?

Hmmm

1. “Strength” does not mean training like a powerlifter. Everybody immediately defaults to this position without even thinking about the argument. Powerlifting is a competitive sport that requires specialized training to increase strength in the three lifts. Training to increase your 1RM in the squat, bench, and deadlift qualifies as getting stronger, yes – but that is not the only way to define ‘getting stronger’. Increasing your strength might mean increasing your best set of 8 reps; or it might mean going from one set of 5 to four sets of 8 with the same weight; and it can even mean going from a maximum set of 5 to a very easy set of 5 (by using the relative feel of the set as an indicator).

“Getting stronger” can mean lots of things, and fundamentally all it means is that your muscles have added the ability to handle a workload. While I do think powerlifting overlaps with bodybuilding in many ways, they don’t have to be defined as the same thing. That’s an epic black/white fallacy which includes no other options between Sheiko and five-day Bro-splits.

2. Specialized training yields specialized results. This is why we can all point to ’small’ powerlifters moving gangsta weights around. Those guys have trained themselves to maximize every advantage in leverage, equipment, and they’ve trained for months or years to lift that way.

Comparing powerlifting and bodybulding is a wrong choice, honestly, because it always seems to lead to this nonsense. I think we may do better to start phrasing this as ‘basic strength training’ or what Rip calls his Basic Barbell Training. This differs from powerlifting in that there’s no specialization towards lifting 1RM weights in the big three. Instead, you’re focusing on those lifts, but also trying to improve other stuff to build well-rounded general strength. like 5/3/1

Obviously there’s a lot of overlap, but basic strength training doesn’t have the specialized elements of competition involved. As per point #1, you can most definitely train for strength without specializing into powerlifting – even if you’re using the same exercises and similar programs.

3. The biggest guys are always the strongest guys.

4. Crossfit is just a fancy term, it involves getting stronger and more conditioned as well. How much does it deviate from strength + conditioning ?

I like where this is going. Go on fellas.

in conclusion JonYeap, you train to be like a man lol....


btw I train to have a balanced life and also because j'aime barbell training

Ken, you got the good point.

Back to the topic

i am thinking to have a morning workout before go to works

wake up on 6.30am, and have a 30min-1hours bodyweight playground workout

the idea of workout is as below, sequence from top to bottom.

Please do advise on workout and sequence if you have better idea. Sooner will DIY a Bulgarian Sandbag (found a huge inner tube yesterday, but have to apply some adhensive to the holes)
repetition not yet decided, gotta try and error.

Afternoon workout will mainly on Weightlifting section or swimming

This coming April will go to Kota Kinabalu, have to prepare myself for better stamina, currently hiking every weekend

Warm up
Push up
Negative Pull Up
Alternate split jump lunge
Bulgarian Squat
Hanging Knee Raise
Shutter Run
Box Jump
Step up
High Knee Sprint


Thank you

i train to get stronger. If i dont get stronger, i get pissed at myself. Stronger Stronger Stronger

I notice that I get the best results in terms of increasing size, when I train in the lower rep ranges (5 or less). I think many people, especially the beginners get caught up in going on 'bodybuilding routines' of 8-12 reps because the pros do it, without first understanding themselves.

Charles Poliquin once mentioned that if you take 80% (or was it 85%) of your 1 rep max, generally most people can do 6 reps. If you get less than 4, it means that your training should be lower rep oriented. Myself only managed 3. So I can see why lower rep ranges work out so well for me.

I think if you're not experienced enough to write your own program, 5/3/1 is probably the best program if increasing strength is your main goal.

yeah_guyz I assume you want to climb mount kinabalu?

If yes, don't neglect your strength training. Most special forces unit in the armed forces require that their soldiers be able to bring their squat up to a minimum of 2 x bodyweight. These guys strap on 20kg and walk for up to 60km in less than one day, so they need very strong legs to withstand the forces that their legs go through.

As for your playground training, it's best to do it in a circuit training manner, alternating between upper body and lower body exercises. I highly recommend that you include burpees (for extra fun' dont just hold the pushup position, do the pushup) and mountain climbers. You can also do bodyweight squats. Btw, you never provided us with reps and sets numbers.

yeah, KK mountain

i am still doing strength training at afternoon, mainly on bear complex and squat
use to try my strength by carrying 12kg(the weight was decreasing as part of the water consumed) to Gunung Nuang's pacat camp (3.5hour trip), quite fun but calves was slightly cramp.

yeah, burpee could be nice, but i may put it in afternoon workout as finisher

as for reps, i have no idea how much i can handle with for the total circuit, maybe 10-15reps

tapi ronnie coleman cakap he hates 1 rep max
i think it's all trial and error
some people get the best results out of the 12/10/8 pyramid while others get the best out of something else
nothing is fixed in bb or weightlifting cuz different body requires different orientation..

he was a PL'er how he hates tht? hehe.
and if you watch his videos most of his compound moves relatively low reps lah.


Chow

You sure brotha? I've got a friend from Tex who trains in the same gym as Ronnie. High reps, moderately heavy weight going for the feel and pump. The crazy weights he uses are mostly for vids and publicity.

was referring to his deads and squat in Metroflex (Youtube).
anyway we shud return to bb thread . hehe

Chow

You are gonna burnt out real quick.

Unless you build up to it , bodyweight conditioning in the morning + swimming/training (my term of weighlifting = clean & jerk, snatch).

Since you don't plan in competing in climbing, you should just increase your GPP (general physical preparedness)

monday : train + some light cardio post workout
tuesday : Conditioning
wednesday : train + maybe 2 tabata circuit
thursday : conditoning
Friday : train + light cardio post workout
Saturday : Conditioning / rest
sunday : rest

Getting big is a combination of lifting heavy with correct form, and eating correctly. Getting ripped, is dieting down to strip off fat.

Getting strong is a product of "struggles", getting fast and athletic is practicing skill.

This post has been edited by ken86: Mar 20 2010, 10:29 AM

I suddenly noticed that it's tough to get a conversation flowing here, because the guys here don't have an ego the size of a cauliflower and want to comment just to get somewhat "complimented"

Let talk about slow eccentrics. Anybody used them? I've used them to great success with strength and a lil too much hypertrophy. Basically, it's done to your workset weights, and then you take bout 5 seconds eccentric and explosive concentric (or at least, as explosive as you can after the slow eccentric) Do it for about 5 sets of 2-4 depending on how heavy you're going, and increase by 5% every week. It's pretty dramatic how the changes happen. I only use it for one squat session (I squat 3x a week, and the slow eccentrics are used for back squats) and even that I can see it's benefits. I'm thinking of increasing my squats to 4 sessions now and out of that, 2 is slow squats (both front and back this time)

I've had great results on slow eccentrics. I actually knew they existed all this while, but never really knew why they worked, till I visited Coach Jon. He explained that there should always be a gap between concentric and eccentric strength, so that your concentric strength will keep improving to catch up to the eccentric strength, since you can lower more than you can lift.

Now I mostly lift in a 4010 tempo, I hate doing slow eccentrics, but damn they work. Gotta learn to swallow your ego and use lighter weights. For me the benefits have mainly been in hypertrophy, although I noticed that going on slow eccentrics allow me to increase the weight or number of repetitions every week. Constant progress.

Btw how's your HCl experiment coming along?

i've read about eccentrics and concentrics last year or so masa i baca about negatives
found some posts in bb.com talking about this
some of the google search results suggested, to me at least, that eccentrics is better most of the time due to major muscle tear but can invoke overtraining too and also its best used in compound movements...i could be wrong though...haha
maybe u guys can explain ur view on both eccentrics and concentrics?

This post has been edited by gtoforce: Mar 23 2010, 12:17 PM

My hamstring flexibility has improved so much, that today for the first time in my life, while doing Romanian Deadlifts the plates kept touching the floor.

Yeah yeah I know, cool story bro.

I think you are confusing negatives and eccentrics.

Negatives is a type of training method. When doing negatives, generally you do not do the concentric at all, or use very minimal effort for the concentric portion. For example, when doing negative chin ups, you jump up to the top position, and lower yourself down, you don't do the concentric portion at all.

Eccentric simply refers to the part where you lower the weights. In a squat and deadlift, that would be the part where you are going down, or in a bench press its when you lower the bar.

In terms of hypertrophy, during the eccentric portion is when muscles suffer microtrauma, which ultimately makes them grow. I remember Charles Poliquin once said perhaps instead of saying 'Hey dude Im going to the gym to lift weights and grow' we should say 'Hey dude Im going to the gym to lower some weights and grow'. Charles Poliquin and Ian King are the main proponents of slow eccentric lifting. They didn't invent it, but they were the ones who made it popular.

Sticking to hypertrophy, Poliquin suggests that in order for hypertrophy to occur, a muscle generally needs to have Time Under Tension (TUT) of at least 40 seconds. Imagine yourself doing bicep curls, if you take 1 second to lift the weight and 1 second to lower it for 10 reps, you'll get around 20-25 seconds of TUT, which is not optimal for hypertrophy. If you take 1 second to lift and 3 seconds to lower, that gives you at least 40 seconds of TUT.

In terms of strength, I'm not really very sure how to explain this, but I'll try my best. Basically, your muscles can lower more than they can lift. So there is a gap between eccentric and concentric strength. Your concentric strength will always try to catch up to the eccentric, which is why when someone who cannot do a single chin up starts doing negatives, suddenly he can do chinups, because his concentric strength is trying to catch up to his eccentric strength. If you constantly lift without slowing down your eccentric, there may come a point in time where your concentric strength doesn't need to catch up with the eccentric, and that's when you stall.

Using myself as an example, I implemented slow eccentrics less than 2 months ago. The first month, I did 10-12 reps at 4010 tempo (basically 4 seconds to lower the weight, no pause at the bottom, 1 second to lift, no pause at the top). It worked very well for hypertrophy. In the second month, I'm training at 4-6 reps, same tempo, and sometimes I'm shocked. I can easily increase the weight in almost every exercise, week after week. During the 1st month, I increased the reps, so if last week I did X weight for 10 reps, I try to get 11 or 12 the following week. During the 2nd month, the focus was on increasing the weight used. Progress has been consistent so far, hopefully it goes on like this.

Anyway, the main reason this slow eccentrics training is not popular is because you have to swallow your ego. You have to reduce the amount of weight you use. A lot of people say 'Well many people train without slow eccentrics and they're big and strong'. Yes that may be true, but that completely misses the point. Nobody is saying YOU MUST DO SLOW ECCENTRICS TO BECOME BIG AND STRONG. Slow eccentrics can allow you to have more hypertrophy and gain more strength, but I think the biggest advantage of slow eccentrics is that it makes it much more harder to stall, and stalling can be very frustrating.

Hope this helps you.

Very nicely explained.

thanks man
and no i dont really care about ego
what i want is to grow

I didnt mean YOU as in gtoforce haha, I meant it in a general way, don't misunderstand

40 second?? that long wooo

it's just a theory and suggestion for greater result i guess...cause when it comes to implementations, from my pov just do it your way...it's all about feeling...

read carefully bro. it is total of whole set
not do 1 reps for 40s

Well explained bro. Good one.

haha
i meant in generally too

Yeah i know. I don't count the time when training. Don't know it must at least 40 second. if that been a case i have to play a bit lighter load than now.
This definately burn my muscle like hell. i use to complete my set under 20 second. surely this is hard to follow.

now i know the different between strength training and hyperthrophy (BB))

This post has been edited by arekey: Mar 24 2010, 02:34 PM

i have been training on toning & gain weight since December with a PT.
i noticed my arms got firm, and 2 vertical lines on the 2 sides of my abs.
i think... my strength is improved... but very little, when my PT increase the weight i.e. if normally do like 5-10kg, if she gives me 15kg >i may as well die!

am i improving too slow? it may due to when i travel 1-2weeks in 1 month and i stop completely

also... wat exercise i need to do so that i can do the "real" push-up (pumping on the floor) I still only can do like, 5 on my knees... very admire ppl who has enough strength to do it only with hands!

am so hungry for strength!!!

Read about the topic we were discussing about on pause training. Pause at the weakest positions then slowly descend. Then reset again. My client was unable to complete a single FULL push-up in November when we began. Today she cranks out 12 full ones without a problem. And she does that for another 4 sets, and all this was via pause-slow descend techniques. She is now beginning to embark onto pull-ups, in which I'm using the same method as well. Pause at the highest position and roll in the shoulders and hold for as long as possible. She does numerous sets of three reps and today is able to do 4 reps of half pull-ups (she pulls up when the arm hits 90 degrees) Slowly we're aiming to make it a full straight arm pull-up.

Your PT should teach you ways to train when you're travelling. Things such as push-ups and burpees, squats and leg raises. All these simple and effective exercises can be used when you're travelling around.

Has anyone ever died halfway through sheiko or smolov?

I was in week 3 of Smolov doing the one with higher repetitions. I can't rmb I think it was day 2 of week 3. My bodyfat by then was so damn low my abs were showing all over. All was fantastic, until I was at the second last set and my body just stopped working. It just couldn't. Suddenly, it just felt completely weak and just wouldn't budge.

I think that was pretty close to dying.

Sheiko was alright though.

PM me quotation & location

and btw... i google pause training , so it's call rest-pause training.. blur* dunno wat it says&mean too many fitness terms yea?

Start with a weight where I hit momentary muscular failure around 4-8 reps. >HUH?

Rack the weight and take 10-20 second break. >HUH?!?!

Unrack it for part two and perform a few more reps to failure. >HUH?!?!?Wat?

i know am a bum tat only rely on my PT saying "do this, 12345678910,54321"

It sounds like doing a slomo eccentric doubles to triples the time the muscle is under load ! So my muscles are working doubly harder and should achieve results in half the time someone does a normal-timed routine rite ? Hmm.. this sounds like good news.

I am about to embark on 5x5, so am quite keen to test this slow eccentric on all my exercises on all reps & sets. Will this be too much or its suppposed to be implemented selectively ? I have been doing slow eccentrics unconsciously in my chinnings to slowly descent & so far they have been a good thing but not sure for all exercises.

---

Added on March 29, 2010, 4:15 pmBy the way, this section should probably include BODY SCULPTING into its title

This post has been edited by mrPOTATO: Mar 29 2010, 04:15 PM

Hi, this is probably the perfect exercise for you, since you can't do a 'real' pushup



The original article is here: Girls Can Do Pushups Too


It can be done, but please swallow your ego and start out with lower weights.

Body sculpting should not even be a fitness term. Want me to sculpt your body? Then give me a knife......

This post has been edited by Desvaro: Mar 29 2010, 06:49 PM

LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT!
Lol!

Btw, I'm gonna be teaching a set of CSCS candidates this Friday and next Saturday on weightlifting in Damansara Perdana. We could meet up after.

nose in mouth out

+99999999999999999999999999

this forum is a gold mine. thanks for posting and explaining. a very very good read! simple and straight to the point man. Im going to try this in my routine as I'm beginning to stall in some lifts. thanks for the info again!!

Hey guys, so now that we've a thread about powerlifting and strength training as well as conditioning, I'm thinking about the idea of a kettlebell bulk.
Kettlebells as you guys probably already know it is a fantastic training tool to get much stronger and well conditioned because it trains the stabilizers and because of its odd shape and far center of gravity, it requires us to activate a lot of posterior chain and our muscles, just to keep these babies under control.

I know this isn't the place to sell items, (hey I'm the mod here, fool) but I'm trying to get as many kettlebells as possible. I'm getting my clients some and I'm getting about 2 bells myself (Probably get the 24kg ones)

Here's a couple of videos on the fundamentals of kettlebell training





And here's a quick comparison of kb over db.
http://www.criticalbench.com/dumbbells_ver...kettlebells.htm
And here's a demo by Steve Cotter (who uses kettlebells almost exclusively)

Now the issue with kettlebells in Malaysia is its extremely exorbitant price. KDT Athletics sells them but I find their prices way off!

It's RM310 for a 8KG kettlebell which most of us guys will just adapt to in about a week! And then we'd have to buy some more. Check the prices out yourselves guys!

http://www.kdtathletics.com/products.html

I've however found a seller that's a friend of mine, that's willing to give us cheaper prices. Are any of you fellows out there interested, because if you are, I'll organize a bulk for you guys too. I'm not giving exact figures, but for the 8kg kettlebell, you can expect savings of at least RM70! Most guys like us, would start with the minimum weight of 16kg which is being sold for RM440. You guys wanna save RM100? Cuz this seller I'm getting from can give us that much savings.
So you guys think about it, and if some of you guys are interested, I'll try and squeeze you guys in with my own clients too. I'm getting at least 8 kettlebells for my clients and myself. The thing is if you guys join, I can get even lower prices some more.

More about eccentric and tempo training from the master himself:

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/ArticlesMul...cle.aspx?ID=285

Hey Pizzaboy, I'm interested in the Kettlebell. The 16kg one. If it's not too much to ask, please PM me the best price you're able to get. I'll ask my dad then.

Thanks in advance.

@pizza

The one you intend to bulk is Pro grade or cast iron?
and how about the delivery? Can pm me the price for a pair of 20kg?
Why don't you organise a bulk section 1st, i'm sure there is quite alot people wanted to get it, and yeah.. malaysia kettlebell is selling god damn expensive


yeah, i know this kind of trading talk shouldn't appearing here, but sometime don't need to be so strict lol.

thanks for the link bro

I do mouth in arsehole out.

Jk

Mouth in Mouth out. i can get more air

Will pass the link soon.

All the kettlebells are Pro Grade. I won't get the cast iron because there are cases of it breaking when it falls, and I don't wanna bring bad quality products.

ok, do let me know the price for 16kg & 20kg once you get everything done. thanks

Naise kettelbell, plan to get one, good for home complex training. XD

Jeez, KDT's price is about 50-60% more than in the US. I thought steel is cheaper in Msia since it's subsidised? =P

Dudes,
-What weight would be good for a 50-60 yr old man & lady who has never trained in any weights (my parents =)? 8kg or 12kg?
-Is a 16kg 1-arm dumbbell swing similar to 16kg 1-arm KB swing?

went to fitness concept just now they sell adjustable kettle-bell (20lb) for 300 plus if im not mistaken. so i might go for the one that PB want to buy

12kg.

it seems light, but when u start to swing those thing, then u know how heavy it is lol. Tats what i exp from my sandbag lol.

Okay peoples! Its up!
This may be the cheapest price

http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=ST&f...0#entry32886941

---

Added on April 2, 2010, 10:59 amRM360 and RM430 for 16KG and 20KG respectively. If you order more than 1, I can give you a minor discount but don't la expect too much.

So you getting one?

For a kettlebell, you ought to go with 12KG for the man and for your mum, I suggest getting her basic strength up first so she can share the bell with your dad. Because 8KG you will adapt super fast to it, even at their age. Get them to do more squats and push-ups baby!

- Not even close. 16KG dumbbell swings are like chicken feed. 16KG kb swings, now that requires a lil more attention.


For a 9KG, KB (though adjustable), you're paying 300 plus. You can get 12KG for 310 bucks bro. Btw, recommended for men is 16KG and women 12KG aye.

I swung a 12KG kettlebell once and thought, hey! This is easy! Within 30 seconds, my hips started aching. Apparently....not so easy. I'll write a simple tutorial for you guys when you get this kettlebell la. So please proceed to bulk orders and drop an order there so I can standardize things. let's get back to strength talk here.


This post has been edited by pizzaboy: Apr 4 2010, 04:24 PM

Here's some pretty interesting videos of the Belarus national team, Aramnau. 20 years old, Olympic gold medallist 2008. Here's a few videos of him. He's also the world record holder. Watch this. This 255KG double clean, would mean he could likely clean 258KG. That is way above the current world record for 105KG lifters.



255KG clean double



210KG block snatch, almost double.



This is one of John Broz's 85KG lifter doing a 275KG deadlift. I think he's not even 20 yet.



170KG snatch DOUBLE. Probably a 85KG lifter



175KG power snatch double. I think a 94kg lifter.

These Olympics, I believe if doping isn't such a bitch on the lifters, we will be seeing a good number of world records from the Russians, Belorussians, Kazaks and Chinese. Screw doping rules anyway. The game of strength, is about finding the maximal strength and power a human being can have. If you don't wanna dope, that's your problem....I say YES FOR DOPE!

And for f(cusk.....here's an amount that not many people can even squat. He's doing behind neck jerks for a triple here.



In comparison, my max is only 140KG for a single. This guy has it at 240KG for a triple. Which means his single could likely be about 246-249KG. Has anybody around here even deadlifted these numbers?

Weightlifters baby! Most powerful athletes on earth!

Heh, I can't even deadlift your max behind the neck jerk.

This post has been edited by -Dan: Apr 4 2010, 05:02 PM

That's funny. Almost anybody with a semi-decent squat (even half squat) and a few months (some even weeks) of training should be able to hit 140KG in the deadlift. How's your training like?

I'm pretty sure I can cough up a very simple routine you can use to break your plateau.

Thing is, I haven't deadlifted since last august since that's when i injured my back. I tried doing them again a couple of days ago, for the first time since that injury. Felt a bit awkward while doing them, but there was no pain or anything so I went on with them. The next day though, my lower back (specifically the lumbar and sacral area) hurt like a b****. So I dunno, honestly.

What sort of pain is that?
If it's the muscular ache, then there really isn't too much to worry about. If it's a different sorta pain, like a sharp ache, then I'd back off deadlifts temporarily and instead do higher rep good mornings and box squats. Now the interesting thing about box squats is, although it loads the posterior chain with a lot of weight, the torque on your lower back is lesser due to the "sit back" position which is great.

Also, I'd do quite a bit of higher repetition leg raises and reverse hyperextensions as well to strengthen the whole core structure and hamstrings.

whats the routine eh pizza?
i cant do 140kg for deadlift
my max is 100kg

Oh ya. I heard that low weights with very high repetition & frequency is a form of therapy?

It's definitely not muscular ache. The pain comes from deeper inside, nearer to the spine. And yeah, I'm not planning to get back with deadlifts until I'm certain it's healed because I don't want to mess around with my back.

Oh, I've been doing leg raises and hyperextensions for quite some time now, and occasionally good mornings as well. My back seems to be ok with front squats instead of back squats too. I'll try out box squats as well, thanks.

Box squat 3x a week.
No seriously. Load 5% every week till you stall, then increase sets and reps at the weight ur stalling at. Then increase load again when feeling stronger.

I wouldn't say theraphy, but I feel it builds a better mind-muscle connection as well as gives the muscle a nice flush of blood that should help recovery.

I'd definitely keep off deads atm

---

Added on April 5, 2010, 9:55 pmAnd for those of you guys who want a real quad killer, try snatch grip deadlifts. When I say snatch grip deads, I mean your torso has to raise at the same time as your hips, and not your hips rise first. Major quad killer. Great to improve deadlifts starting too because of it's added range of motion.

This post has been edited by pizzaboy: Apr 5 2010, 09:55 PM

Yo folks, some commotion happening at the bb thread. Try not to preach PL/Strength stuff on the BB thread. Don't wanna start a flame war and shiet. Share your vast of knowledge in the PL/Strength Thread

This post has been edited by shanecross: Apr 7 2010, 06:31 PM

Will do peoples!

wat happen?

I'd like to contribute a lil something about the value of power based movements. Plyometrics, power cleans and power snatches. OF course, powerful movements are not exclusive to only these 2 different exercises and 1 category of movements. Flipping a tire can also be considered a power based movement as long as the tire isn't too heavy because at one point, you'd have to throw the tire from the thigh to the floor.

Too many times a lot of us are so hell bent on getting stronger, wanting to break past the sticking point, we forget the one thing that can actually help us and is less torturous. Speed. With increased speed, we get more power, so why aren't we paying some attention at getting faster? What makes weightlifters so bloody powerful is that weightlifters must carry an extremely heavy load, to much higher heights. With 200KG, the load is much higher than 100KG, thus causing the power exerted to be higher.

To most people, the Olympic lifts will be close to impossible to learn as the main essential in Olympic lifts is the triple extension. However, half the time, people will be banging the bar and not being able to extend the quadriceps powerfully enough. So what's the other alternative? Jumping, running, rebounding movements.

If one were stuck at the squats at parallel, I suggest doing jumps from a low box (sitting on it) to a high box. What this does is that it teaches you to powerfully get OUT of the hole. I move my low box to about 1 meter away from the high box and jump on it. My high box is about 90CM high. So what's cool about this, is ...I can gauge my improvement two ways. Either by moving the box further away from each other, or increasing the height of my high box. Also the landing height tells a lot as well. If I'm tired, I'll land lower and lower (as in my butt will eventually touch my calves) but I try to keep my landing height at parallel.

Anybody care to share other plyo ideas?

All I know about plyo is to explode, explode, EXPLODE!
Explode out of the hole in squat, explode the bar up in the deadlift, explode out of the press, explode to the bar when pull up, explode up when doing pistols, explode out of the toilet bowl after pangsai, etc....

How about chains and bands? They force you to accelerate, if not... you'd get stuck with the increasing load.

And doing swing or DB snatches.

Oh, and a friend happened to pass me this link while we were chatting:
http://danjohn.net/2009/12/one-arm-lifts/

Nothing to do with plyo stuffs but..

I find that routines like sheiko improve your technique overall. Due to the high amount of singles, doubles, triples. Anyone care to share their thoughts?

Chains are excellent but how many of us know how to use it? The problem I have with bands is also because it removes the stability factor so I feel that people who want to use bands, should use it only once a week OR after the main workout. And the end, just add some band work to increase the acceleration speed off the hole.

Btw, plyos aren't about exploding out of a press. It's about using the muscles you already have, loading them and exploding them out.

As for single arm work, I love to use them, but one small problem I have with them is the stability factor if you were to do it with a barbell. I don't know how much time, you'll have to waste relearning how to do it with a barbell, so I'll use a dumbbell for athletes who want to save time. If you have the time, I believe barbells can be used as well, it's just that it'll take a wee bit longer to learn.

When I was on Sheiko, I felt it forced me to pay more focus and attention to my lifting because as you fatigue, I'm sure you'll notice you get a lil "sleepy". But with a heavy bar and so many sets, I really had to keep myself "awake" and focused.

PB i just tried doing these box jumps today about 3 sets until failure. Then I realised how weak I was to 'get out of the hole'. Recently I reached the 1x BW mark for my squats and sometimes I feel 'sleepy' like you mentioned, and some times I stall and I actually fell down from squatting for the first time ever due to failure upon squatting 1x my BW. I feel maybe the motion for jumping on the box and the pushing of the weights upwards during squads could just be the same.

@ cheezzzz

What routine you on mate?

@Kirks

Sometimes, even at 75% of rep max, going for 4 sets of triples can be a pain in the butt after 6-7 sets. The thing about how i squat is, i try to control both ascending and descending, if I just bomb down it gets a little flimsy. On certain, days, the workouts aren't as taxing as the previous ones.hmmmm...So all in all, Sheiko makes your lift better mechanically.


I'm yet to try the REAL sheiko, the one that has a 4 day split due to time constrain.

started on stronglifts 5x5 in feb. so far only about a month of continuous training. today's box jumps I did at the park were not part of my regular routine, I felt I needed a workout cuz gonna be away from gym for the next few days haha

I read a bit on sheiko, looks good. may want to try it once i can squat 1.5x BW n DL 2x BW and done with stronglifts.

cool let us know how you progress. Would like to see how would a transition from stronglift to sheiko work for you

If im not wrong, Pierre Roy makes his athletes do some box jumps or side box jumps before lifting, so that it primes the nervous system to be able to recruit more high twitch fibers.

I must agree with Pizzaboy, that not many focus enough on power development, especially within athletes. I myself am guilty of that, seeing that my gym has no boxes for me to jump on. There's only one aerobic step which is nowhere near high enough for me to jump on.

Cheezzzz, I don't think doing plyos till failure is a good idea. You want to generate maximum power, so fatigue should be avoided.

Hey guys,

Current on stronglifts 5x5. Will most likely reach 1xBW on the squat by the end of next week. I just realized that I had to start with 40kg on the deadlift and increase by 5kg each time I deadlift. I started with an empty bar and progressively added half of that each time, similar to the other workouts. D: Omg what a horrible mistake. No wonder the deadlifts felt easy.

What should I do now to let the deadlifts catch up with my squats in terms of adding the weight?

3 sets till failure? How can you actually do a plyo movement to failure? It requires that you powerfully explode up so there's no way you can actually do it to failure. Unlike a squatting movement, where you can "fail" where you are squashed by the bar, a plyo movement is "unfailable" (UNless of course you jump on the box and then slam your shins and then roll on the floor for 10 minutes yelling in agony and then seeing a huge chunk of flesh peeled off and a bit of bone, yes I got that before and no it wasn't nice, and no it's not healed completely and probably never will)

http://articles.elitefts.com/training-arti...ed-development/

This is a nice article to read about power and speed.

You guys need to be a lil more creative about plyos. Sprinting is "plyo"'ish. Jumping from a box to the floor then exploding forward like a broad jump is a plyo movement. Just have the essence of pre-loading and reversal (exploding) in it.

So today I did 13 sets of squats consisting of triples and doubles. Weight ranging from 95kg - 162kg. I had 5 sets of bench, not heavy in between the 8th set of squat.

When I got back to the rack, started of from 95kg again up to 152kg for 3x2. Loosing abit of control on my descend, I still tried to compose myself with some left over tempo. lol

great question. my deadlift is lagging behind as well. but I'm lifting as much as I can now. TBH u should try to use 20kg weight plates, so ur total weight will be 20+20+20 = 60kg. Cuz thats the ideal height for the bar to be from the ground.. but also dont add drastically. Lets say last deadlift workout u did 40kg. next day of deadlift workout start warming up with good mornings, stretch your hams, glutes,quads.. Continue the warm up with heavier sets, until u eventually feel its getting a bit hard and let that be the work set of the day. IMO its just my 2 cents and what I would do, but I hold no responsibility whether it is the right way or not.

example
1 x as much stretching as you need.
1 x 5 40kg
1 x 5 50kg
1 x 5 60kg - starting to feel really hard to lift
1 x 4 65kg - failure
(If by any point you feel it is getting really hard to lift,grip failing or whatsoever - thats your workset)

Attempt that weight again the next time u deadlift, should be able to do 1x5, then can continue adding 5kg progressively or 2.5kg progressively

PB: haahha not directly failure, like do until I feel that my explosiveness in jumps are weakening.

This post has been edited by cheezzzz: Apr 9 2010, 07:15 PM

Hmm, sounds good. Thanks!

Sounds a little too much volume on the deadlift for stronglift 5x5.
I would suggest bigger increment in weight between sessions: perhaps 7.5kg instead of 5kg increase.

I don't think in plyos or jumps, you need to do until you're weakening. Each rep should be strong. That's why the low reps and longer rest time per set.

true but

Example 3: Deadlift work weight 220lbs/100kg

* 5x135lbs/60kg (once you have the strength, start straight with 135lbs/60kg, your legs are warmed up from Squats anyway and the correct starting position has the bar starting at mid-shin level).
* 5x175lbs/80kg (45lbs/20kg increase)
* 5x220lbs/100kg (45lbs/20kg increase)

Concept is pretty much that. but 5 sets (including warm ups) is really a bit too much la ahhah, my bad.

noted the plyos n jumps though, thanks for the advice

Hi, i m trying out clean&press n articles say every rep starts & ends with the barbell on the ground. Anyhow i see the videos of ppl performing the full rep by hoisting it from their thighs & finishing with the bar on the thigh.

Can anyone tell me which is the true clean&press ?

A clean and press at max singles, requires you to deload each rep (throw back to ground, clean and press again)
But what are your goals with the clean and press. The thing is, you should always be able to clean more than you can strict press. So the loading for the clean isn't heavy enough to illicit power gains. And then if your clean each rep again, you waste energy if your goal is to press more. So if you ask me, I'd just separate the clean training phase into a different session, rather than combine them together.

What is the point of doing the press? IS it to strengthen your entire body? Then do it from the rack as well, because it's easier to position your hands and press fast out of the hole.

IF I was a bodybuilder (which I'm not) I'd rather use the deadlift than the clean to strengthen my back. If I wanted to be faster (Why do bb'ers wanna be faster anyway?) I'd rather use plyos and speed pulls. If I am an athlete, I'd rather use the power clean to increase my power and speed.

For the press portion, if I was a bb'er, I'd press right off the rack, saving my energy and inducing more hypertrophy to my shoulder region. If I was an athlete or a powerlifter, I'd use push presses to increase my tricep strength and power. In fact, if I was an athlete, I'd much rather use push presses with pauses during the eccentric ROM. DO it as such, push press the bar, lower it slowly and pause when your elbows are parallel to your shoulders for about 2 seconds. Then lower it some more, right before your clavicles for another second and then receive and push it up again. This way you get the benefits of both power and strength. Of course after a while you'd have to rotate it.

Don't do a movement, when you don't know what you're doing it for, and just cuz u saw it off youtube or Paul Chek's site.

Thx for the explanation pizzaboy. I'm a bit afraid to write now because the reason for me adopting cleanpress is .. jus that i wanna try something new haha.. and also becos i thought (mistakenly ?) it might be a good 2in1 compound exercise that incorporates both upright rows & pressing, therefore saving me time.

If it can't offer better hypertrophy i might as well split it up to deads & presses then.

I'm getting to it! I'm almost able to box jump onto a Kancil height box. Yea I tested on my kancil. Sikittt lagi

yoyoyoyo,awesome. Take a video and make sure they aren't e-claims if you know what i mean.

I know. Eh bai, aku tergolek sial, sebab missed the height. Bodo je.

Speed, Functional, explosive, agility, flexibility, gosh i love this kind of training!

aiseh,wat heppen.

Ah lagi 3 tahun ko tunggu. Aku bukak.

I jumped on the Kancil. My bro said I wasn't gonna lepas but I said I can. Guess who was right la.....jatuh tersungkur