Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 Powerlifting/Weightlifting/Conditioning Thread, Strength + Power + etc

views
     
Desvaro
post Mar 19 2010, 05:28 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
639 posts

Joined: May 2008


I notice that I get the best results in terms of increasing size, when I train in the lower rep ranges (5 or less). I think many people, especially the beginners get caught up in going on 'bodybuilding routines' of 8-12 reps because the pros do it, without first understanding themselves.

Charles Poliquin once mentioned that if you take 80% (or was it 85%) of your 1 rep max, generally most people can do 6 reps. If you get less than 4, it means that your training should be lower rep oriented. Myself only managed 3. So I can see why lower rep ranges work out so well for me.

I think if you're not experienced enough to write your own program, 5/3/1 is probably the best program if increasing strength is your main goal.

yeah_guyz I assume you want to climb mount kinabalu?

If yes, don't neglect your strength training. Most special forces unit in the armed forces require that their soldiers be able to bring their squat up to a minimum of 2 x bodyweight. These guys strap on 20kg and walk for up to 60km in less than one day, so they need very strong legs to withstand the forces that their legs go through.

As for your playground training, it's best to do it in a circuit training manner, alternating between upper body and lower body exercises. I highly recommend that you include burpees (for extra fun' dont just hold the pushup position, do the pushup) and mountain climbers. You can also do bodyweight squats. Btw, you never provided us with reps and sets numbers.


Desvaro
post Mar 22 2010, 09:23 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
639 posts

Joined: May 2008


QUOTE(pizzaboy @ Mar 22 2010, 11:53 AM)
I suddenly noticed that it's tough to get a conversation flowing here, because the guys here don't have an ego the size of a cauliflower and want to comment just to get somewhat "complimented"

Let talk about slow eccentrics. Anybody used them? I've used them to great success with strength and a lil too much hypertrophy. Basically, it's done to your workset weights, and then you take bout 5 seconds eccentric and explosive concentric (or at least, as explosive as you can after the slow eccentric) Do it for about 5 sets of 2-4 depending on how heavy you're going, and increase by 5% every week. It's pretty dramatic how the changes happen. I only use it for one squat session (I squat 3x a week, and the slow eccentrics are used for back squats) and even that I can see it's benefits. I'm thinking of increasing my squats to 4 sessions now and out of that, 2 is slow squats (both front and back this time)
*
I've had great results on slow eccentrics. I actually knew they existed all this while, but never really knew why they worked, till I visited Coach Jon. He explained that there should always be a gap between concentric and eccentric strength, so that your concentric strength will keep improving to catch up to the eccentric strength, since you can lower more than you can lift.

Now I mostly lift in a 4010 tempo, I hate doing slow eccentrics, but damn they work. Gotta learn to swallow your ego and use lighter weights. For me the benefits have mainly been in hypertrophy, although I noticed that going on slow eccentrics allow me to increase the weight or number of repetitions every week. Constant progress.

Btw how's your HCl experiment coming along?
Desvaro
post Mar 23 2010, 08:57 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
639 posts

Joined: May 2008


My hamstring flexibility has improved so much, that today for the first time in my life, while doing Romanian Deadlifts the plates kept touching the floor.

Yeah yeah I know, cool story bro.

QUOTE(gtoforce @ Mar 23 2010, 12:16 PM)
i've read about eccentrics and concentrics last year or so masa i baca about negatives
found some posts in bb.com talking about this
some of the google search results suggested, to me at least, that eccentrics is better most of the time due to major muscle tear but can invoke overtraining too and also its best used in compound movements...i could be wrong though...haha
maybe u guys can explain ur view on both eccentrics and concentrics?
*
I think you are confusing negatives and eccentrics.

Negatives is a type of training method. When doing negatives, generally you do not do the concentric at all, or use very minimal effort for the concentric portion. For example, when doing negative chin ups, you jump up to the top position, and lower yourself down, you don't do the concentric portion at all.

Eccentric simply refers to the part where you lower the weights. In a squat and deadlift, that would be the part where you are going down, or in a bench press its when you lower the bar.

In terms of hypertrophy, during the eccentric portion is when muscles suffer microtrauma, which ultimately makes them grow. I remember Charles Poliquin once said perhaps instead of saying 'Hey dude Im going to the gym to lift weights and grow' we should say 'Hey dude Im going to the gym to lower some weights and grow'. Charles Poliquin and Ian King are the main proponents of slow eccentric lifting. They didn't invent it, but they were the ones who made it popular.

Sticking to hypertrophy, Poliquin suggests that in order for hypertrophy to occur, a muscle generally needs to have Time Under Tension (TUT) of at least 40 seconds. Imagine yourself doing bicep curls, if you take 1 second to lift the weight and 1 second to lower it for 10 reps, you'll get around 20-25 seconds of TUT, which is not optimal for hypertrophy. If you take 1 second to lift and 3 seconds to lower, that gives you at least 40 seconds of TUT.

In terms of strength, I'm not really very sure how to explain this, but I'll try my best. Basically, your muscles can lower more than they can lift. So there is a gap between eccentric and concentric strength. Your concentric strength will always try to catch up to the eccentric, which is why when someone who cannot do a single chin up starts doing negatives, suddenly he can do chinups, because his concentric strength is trying to catch up to his eccentric strength. If you constantly lift without slowing down your eccentric, there may come a point in time where your concentric strength doesn't need to catch up with the eccentric, and that's when you stall.

Using myself as an example, I implemented slow eccentrics less than 2 months ago. The first month, I did 10-12 reps at 4010 tempo (basically 4 seconds to lower the weight, no pause at the bottom, 1 second to lift, no pause at the top). It worked very well for hypertrophy. In the second month, I'm training at 4-6 reps, same tempo, and sometimes I'm shocked. I can easily increase the weight in almost every exercise, week after week. During the 1st month, I increased the reps, so if last week I did X weight for 10 reps, I try to get 11 or 12 the following week. During the 2nd month, the focus was on increasing the weight used. Progress has been consistent so far, hopefully it goes on like this.

Anyway, the main reason this slow eccentrics training is not popular is because you have to swallow your ego. You have to reduce the amount of weight you use. A lot of people say 'Well many people train without slow eccentrics and they're big and strong'. Yes that may be true, but that completely misses the point. Nobody is saying YOU MUST DO SLOW ECCENTRICS TO BECOME BIG AND STRONG. Slow eccentrics can allow you to have more hypertrophy and gain more strength, but I think the biggest advantage of slow eccentrics is that it makes it much more harder to stall, and stalling can be very frustrating.

Hope this helps you.
Desvaro
post Mar 23 2010, 10:51 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
639 posts

Joined: May 2008


QUOTE(gtoforce @ Mar 23 2010, 10:41 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


thanks man
and no i dont really care about ego
what i want is to grow
*
I didnt mean YOU as in gtoforce haha, I meant it in a general way, don't misunderstand smile.gif
Desvaro
post Mar 29 2010, 06:47 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
639 posts

Joined: May 2008


QUOTE(debbierowe @ Mar 29 2010, 02:40 PM)
i have been training on toning & gain weight since December with a PT.
i noticed my arms got firm, and 2 vertical lines on the 2 sides of my abs.
i think... my strength is improved... but very little, when my PT increase the weight i.e. if normally do like 5-10kg, if she gives me 15kg >i may as well die!

am i improving too slow? it may due to when i travel 1-2weeks in 1 month and i stop completely

also... wat exercise i need to do so that i can do the "real" push-up (pumping on the floor) I still only can do like, 5 on my knees... very admire ppl who has enough strength to do it only with hands!

am so hungry for strength!!!
*
Hi, this is probably the perfect exercise for you, since you can't do a 'real' pushup



The original article is here: Girls Can Do Pushups Too


QUOTE(mrPOTATO @ Mar 29 2010, 04:14 PM)
It sounds like doing a slomo eccentric doubles to triples the time the muscle is under load ! So my muscles are working doubly harder and should achieve results in half the time someone does a normal-timed routine rite ? Hmm.. this sounds like good news.

I am about to embark on 5x5, so am quite keen to test this slow eccentric on all my exercises on all reps & sets. Will this be too much or its suppposed to be implemented selectively ? I have been doing slow eccentrics unconsciously in my chinnings to slowly descent & so far they have been a good thing but not sure for all exercises.


Added on March 29, 2010, 4:15 pmBy the way, this section should probably include BODY SCULPTING into its title wink.gif
*
It can be done, but please swallow your ego and start out with lower weights.

Body sculpting should not even be a fitness term. Want me to sculpt your body? Then give me a knife......

This post has been edited by Desvaro: Mar 29 2010, 06:49 PM
Desvaro
post Apr 1 2010, 12:31 AM

On my way
****
Senior Member
639 posts

Joined: May 2008


More about eccentric and tempo training from the master himself:

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/ArticlesMul...cle.aspx?ID=285
Desvaro
post Apr 8 2010, 03:55 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
639 posts

Joined: May 2008


If im not wrong, Pierre Roy makes his athletes do some box jumps or side box jumps before lifting, so that it primes the nervous system to be able to recruit more high twitch fibers.

I must agree with Pizzaboy, that not many focus enough on power development, especially within athletes. I myself am guilty of that, seeing that my gym has no boxes for me to jump on. There's only one aerobic step which is nowhere near high enough for me to jump on.

Cheezzzz, I don't think doing plyos till failure is a good idea. You want to generate maximum power, so fatigue should be avoided.
Desvaro
post Apr 20 2010, 11:10 AM

On my way
****
Senior Member
639 posts

Joined: May 2008


I've noticed that when I do dumbbell bench press and dumbbell shoulder press (seated) that my weakest point is generally at the bottom, the first few inches from my chest or shoulders.

If I can get past that point, I can usually lock out the lift relatively easily.

I believe this indicates weak chest or shoulders? Correct me if I'm wrong and please give some suggestions to work on this weakness.

Thank you
Desvaro
post Apr 20 2010, 07:41 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
639 posts

Joined: May 2008


I forgot to mention that I'm doing my lifts now at a 4 second eccentric tempo.

Hmm I've never tried slow eccentrics at a lower weight myself, have you tried them? How well do they work?
Desvaro
post May 2 2010, 10:30 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
639 posts

Joined: May 2008


Just curious, how close have you come to dying or wishing you were dead while on Sheiko?

Anyway Shane, is this your first time on Sheiko?
Desvaro
post May 23 2010, 09:26 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
639 posts

Joined: May 2008


QUOTE(silverwave @ May 23 2010, 02:44 PM)
Guys, i need some opinion here.

I recently changed to the 5X5 workout from Rippetoe. For the last one month, i have been unable to go to the gym constantly due to work. I use to go 5-6 times a week but now it's 2-3 and that's if i'm lucky to leave work early.

Therefore, i thought of going early in the morning to gym, perhaps 6+. I need to know if anyone has tried it before and how do you feel during work?

Thanks.
*
If you're gonna go at 6, you better wake up at around 4. It is not safe to lift weights during the first 2 hours that you're awake, you'll hurt your back much more easily.

I'm too busy to find the source now, but it was mentioned by Charles Poliquin. Maybe try googling Charles Poliquin and keywords like lifting first thing in the morning.

Other than that, there's nothing wrong with training early in the morning. Just make sure your diet is in check.
Desvaro
post May 24 2010, 11:01 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
639 posts

Joined: May 2008


QUOTE(iamyuanwu @ May 24 2010, 02:07 PM)
+1
Physiological factor.
The spine is extended and the filled with fluids between the spinal joints. Higher risk of injury.
That's why the suggestion to wait for at least 2 hours for the spine to 'normalise' before lifting heavy stuff especially squats and deadlifts.

I've just chatted with a friend, apparently this info is not verified. Take it with a huge pinch of salt. Please use common sense and google.
*
It is confirmed by Charles Poliquin though, and if Charles Poliquin said it, it's highly likely to be true.
Desvaro
post May 30 2010, 07:33 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
639 posts

Joined: May 2008


In April, I took a month off from training and cut down on my eating, when I came back I lost some strength, it took me one extra week to get back to previous levels.

In May, I took a month off from training, but this time I maintained my diet as if I was going to the gym. This time I came back stronger than before.

Just my experience......

 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0242sec    0.58    6 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 4th December 2025 - 04:35 PM