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> [Home Appliances] Water Filter, for drinking water purpose Household

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weikee
post Jul 24 2012, 09:43 PM

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QUOTE(craftsnknots @ Jul 24 2012, 09:37 PM)
Ozak, you are right. So I survey here survey there, check this that then cut this for that. Then certain thing buy mid range instead of high end. So I'm still waiting to see which air con n fridge is more value for money right now n if I can use 2.5 aircon piping for 2hp air con so that I can upgrade.

If i buy 3m do I need to modify anything if I wanna change to espring or equivalent? Piping, tap n such?
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Espring need electrical socket. Others are similar.
skng03
post Jul 25 2012, 12:06 AM

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QUOTE(craftsnknots @ Jul 24 2012, 09:37 PM)
......... n if I can use 2.5 aircon piping for 2hp air con so that I can upgrade.
.......
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some 2.0/ 2.5 hp use same size, see chart below

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zheilwane
post Jul 25 2012, 12:45 AM

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QUOTE(KIntos @ Jul 24 2012, 07:16 PM)
Some bacteria is smaller than 0.5 micron 0.4% out of millions. its enough to make you weak if 0.4% bacteria is vulnerable specifically to your health.
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weikee since u r using APDWS 1000, what do you think about the 0.4% difference? Is the filter able to provide good taste and clean water?


Added on July 25, 2012, 1:35 am
QUOTE(weikee @ Jul 24 2012, 07:44 PM)
Amway is good, unfortunately too expensive for me during my Reno time. And 3m got promotion, is worth it.

Maybe few more years I will get it.
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3M is value for money. Considering less than RM 2k u can get an outdoor filter that could provide clean water for showering, laundry and etc and also an indoor filter that could provide clean & healthy drinking water. Since many forumers are debating on epsing, for the price more than RM 2k, it can only provide good driking water but how about shower and laundry?

To compare on performance, espring has better disinfection due to UV light but 3M package (indoor + outdoor) has an advantage on providing clean water for your whole house at at a lower price. So, u decide, is it worthy to forgo a good outdoor water filter for a UV light?

This post has been edited by zheilwane: Jul 25 2012, 01:35 AM
weikee
post Jul 25 2012, 08:34 AM

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QUOTE(zheilwane @ Jul 25 2012, 12:45 AM)
weikee since u r using APDWS 1000, what do you think about the 0.4% difference? Is the filter able to provide good taste and clean water?


Added on July 25, 2012, 1:35 am

3M is value for money. Considering less than RM 2k u can get an outdoor filter that could provide clean water for showering, laundry and etc and also an indoor filter that could provide clean & healthy drinking water. Since many forumers are debating on epsing, for the price more than RM 2k, it can only provide good driking water but how about shower and laundry?

To compare on performance, espring has better disinfection due to UV light but 3M package (indoor + outdoor) has an advantage on providing clean water for your whole house at at a lower price. So, u decide, is it worthy to forgo a good outdoor water filter for a UV light?
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Use for nearly 8 months now. Still Healthy ;-) I am not really concern of the minor difference. Maybe yes if I am in India. Oh well who know if syabas want to kill everyone before they get killed.

This post has been edited by weikee: Jul 25 2012, 08:38 AM
KIntos
post Jul 25 2012, 09:26 AM

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what is the difference on 0.4% without any scientific measurement. How we would know how many bacteria on 0.4% without measurement tools or does it good taste and clean water enough to justify a good drinking water filter? I knew you carrying 3M products.

Espring advantages is UV light compare to 3M as per current model. Therefore the price is expensive on Espring as they still holding the ranking in water filtration system. There are few competitor to Espring but in different classes which i know is Coway RO system.

3M= value yet good filtration
Espring= expensive but enchance filtration with UV tech.

Got money got chances to go for better life style. All about money. Somehow i still do have fren uncle who can afford Espring/Coway/Aquasana/3M product but they chooses Diamond system as they heard everywhere about Diamond System last time.

thats all i can conclude for now. I do know you are promoting your product in value price but the example you show between used china made vs brand new PS is a failure unless you show both used or both brand new. 3M and Espring is different class system. smile.gif
ozak
post Jul 25 2012, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(craftsnknots @ Jul 24 2012, 09:37 PM)
Ozak, you are right. So I survey here survey there, check this that then cut this for that. Then certain thing buy mid range instead of high end. So I'm still waiting to see which air con n fridge is more value for money right now n if I can use 2.5 aircon piping for 2hp air con so that I can upgrade.

If i buy 3m do I need to modify anything if I wanna change to espring or equivalent? Piping, tap n such?
*
I don't no about this espring or any undersink filter spec. I just have a basic carbon filter under ther sink. Easy connection for me.

But most of them are easy to modify and fit. They mostly comeout std fitting. Some even come with many fitting accessory together for your piping. Don't worry about it.
ozak
post Jul 25 2012, 11:08 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jul 25 2012, 08:34 AM)
Use for nearly 8 months now. Still Healthy ;-)  I am not really concern of the minor difference. Maybe yes if I am in India. Oh well who know if syabas want to kill everyone before they get killed.
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You even can't go to india if you concern of the minor different.
NIckLJF
post Jul 25 2012, 11:52 AM

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I suppose we were not comparing apple to apple as Amway and 3M uses a different technology altogether and also belongs to a different price point.


stevie8
post Jul 25 2012, 12:37 PM

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QUOTE(NIckLJF @ Jul 25 2012, 11:52 AM)
I suppose we were not comparing apple to apple as Amway and 3M uses a different technology altogether and also belongs to a different price point.
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There is no need to make all these comparison so complex. First thing first Syabas sucks!!! vmad.gif

Narrow down the requirements:

1. Sediment. All these dirt, sands, mud, rust.

As far as I am concerned, a 5 micron filter is good enough for bath, washing, cooking. Just make sure your house internal piping after the filter is GI pipe/socket.

2. For drinking. All these bacteria, viruses.

There are few things I know solve these problem. The first is UV. Then RO or pure water allow you to drink direct. And if you dont have these just boil the water.

3. For drinking. All these chemicals especially large quantity of cholrine added to our pipe water on purpose.

RO removed almost all of it till insignificant so minute it will not affect your health. But with RO lacks the natural minerals some say. I am not sure if we need minerals from water source, just that occasionally you drink outside, mamak teh tarik, 100 plus gives you lot of minerals, etc.

Then you can overcome this probem with carbon filter. Any activated carbon filter will absorb and do the job. No need to buy expensive carbon block. The so called super good activated carbon they themselves cannot tell you why it is so different and so good. An activated carbon block is an activated carbon block. The best is made of coconut shell. We have plenty and we/malaysia exports it and to USA and reimport it as branded!!!

Knowing what you have you know what you need to do that is!

Conclusion, 2 simple steps:

1. A sediment filter for the whole house
2. A combination or some of UV/RO/Activated carbon filter or Activated carbon filter + boiling for drinking.

Remember when you cook you are boiling the water.

weikee
post Jul 25 2012, 12:44 PM

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3m I drink direct, it don't have UV. But water direct from outside so the Chlorine should kill most of the bacterial.
jtleon
post Jul 25 2012, 12:55 PM

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3M indoor + outdoor is 2.2-2.3k but if only indoor would cost around 1.7-1.8k include installation

so basically with 3M we are forced to install both since install one would cost so much as well
halcyon27
post Jul 25 2012, 01:34 PM

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QUOTE(stevie8 @ Jul 25 2012, 12:37 PM)
Conclusion, 2 simple steps:

1. A sediment filter for the whole house
2. A combination or some of UV/RO/Activated carbon filter or Activated carbon filter + boiling for drinking.

Remember when you cook you are boiling the water.
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Agree.

Put another way:
1. Incoming water -deal with sediments, rust, mud, etc. - otherwise washing clothes get new color mad.gif
Emphasis should be here. Two school of thought - filter everything even chlorine or just filter the sediments, rust, mud only.
My take is as long as you're using appliance sensitive to sediments like water pump eg washing machine (they have one) it is needed.
In old houses, it is also good to have one near washing machine esp the fabric 10-0.5 micron type because sometimes the GI pipe inside the home
could be accumulating rust sediments.
My take is to filter out sediment, rust, mud at entry/incoming. But leave the chlorine as it is important to keep water tank clean from algae or mold
and other stuff.

2. Point of use water - deal with whatever that needs to be dealt with
Shower, bathing - shower filter - maybe less emphasis cos chlorine not as strong but can still smell. Still, chlorine free water is better for hair
Drinking - many to choose from so this one up to personal preference. Apart from the many choices, there are also ppl who drink distilled water.
Cooking - this one like drinking also but I tend to lean more to cutting out chlorine from washing vege etc. Somehow from what I read, they do absorb. Even washing rice before cooking, my wife use chlorine filtered water.


stevie8
post Jul 25 2012, 01:38 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jul 25 2012, 12:44 PM)
3m I drink direct, it don't have UV. But water direct from outside so the Chlorine should kill most of the bacterial.
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Yes, The fact is there should not be any problem drinking direct worrying about bacteria. First there are only few bacteria that cause problem. Most bacteria are harmless. 2nd, for flowing water the quantity of bacteria is too little to cause any harm and 3rd if any your body defence system will take care of it and 4th worst case is you purge them out without you knowing where they came from that cause you stomachach.

But it is good to have carbon filter to get rid of chemicals and make your coffee/tea taste like real coffee and tea.
craftsnknots
post Jul 25 2012, 02:15 PM

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They are called bacterias for a reason. It is not that they are not harmful, they are just less harmful to adults. But they could be harmful to babies and those of lupus diseases.

Gram-negative rod bacterias are harmful and can cause inflammation, but healthy adults like us have better immune system towards these bacterias than newborn babies (then again, we sterilized babies bottles and such so you dont see the effect). Coliforms are gram-negative rod bacterias commonly found in our JBA water. You can kill these bacterias with hot water above 82 degree C.

The Pseudomonas aeruginosa is another type of bacteria commonly found in Malaysian water. Also harmful to newborns, sick and weak, those with weak inmmune system.

You may or may not find this info in water filter sites mainly because these filter technology are designed elsewhere where water are all pre-treated before supplying to home unlike our good ol' pariah water supply.

If you do not have weaklings at home, i guess it is alright and for newborns, babies, toddlers, old and sick, Just boil it, it is fine with or without UV.

82C or 180F is sufficient to kill. and since we boil to 100C, we're good with just any filter filtering contaminants of 0.5micron.

carbon filter dont make your water taste like coffee or tea or burnt food..if you taste that means it is time to change your filter. carbon block filter and activated carbon filter are different. carbon block has larger surface area and therefore more efficient in filtering contaminants.

Whether activated carbon or carbon blocks, they are both activated. when they say activated carbons, it means that it comes in granular forms and carbon block is..well block. The carbon filters the contaminants which are nutrients for these microbes and because there are more crevices between the activated carbons and thus the turbulence of water passing through will not be sufficient to 'cleanse' during backwash compared to carbon blocks. General cleaning requires 1m/s velocity on smooth surface with the granular activated carbon, you would require a velocity higher than that.

On chlorine, the activated carbon reacts with chlorine and changes it to chloride ions and therefore you cannot taste it (at small concentration). Chloride ions is tasteless and odourless.

stevie8
post Jul 25 2012, 03:10 PM

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So technical. Whatever it is when you want a water filter for drinking and cooking you better have activated carbon as one of the components.

Activated carbon is used for removing various organic substances like Oils, Radioactive Compounds, Petroleum, Hydrocarbons, Poly Aromatic Hydrocarbons and various halogenated compounds like Chlorine, Fluorine, Bromine and Iodine. Apart from organic compounds it also removes inorganic compounds like Arsenic, Cadmium, Chromium, Zinc, Lead, Mercury, Copper, etc.

Because of it's absorption characteristics it can also provide a prime habitat for microorganisms to grow. It is important, therefore, to change activated carbon filters on a regular basis. Run the water for 30 seconds to 1 minutes to drain before collecting for drinking and cooking.



This post has been edited by stevie8: Jul 25 2012, 03:15 PM
craftsnknots
post Jul 25 2012, 03:35 PM

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Not to say 'better have activated carbon' more like the most economic, widely used components for water filtration for home and industries. To filter you need activated carbon. To kill, you need UV...So if i have extra money to splurge, I'll get 3M for outdoor and Espring for indoor.

Also to point out that the NSF-42 bacteriostatic certification are intended to limit the heterotrophic bacteria in carbon filter effluent from potable water influent to increase or amplify (What 3M or other carbon block filters can do), as opposed to a water purification filter that is intended to purify micro-biologically unsafe water (what espring or any other with UV can do). As long as there is stagnant water, you will have growth just not bad enough to cause any adverse effect. The carbon is the used to remove impurities which would mean it traps them and it is the medium for growth, once those bacteria colonize on the carbon, merdeka already, it will start introducing more bacteria into the effluent, so must backwash, just how often I don’t know, depending on the carbon block inside those water filter.
weikee
post Jul 25 2012, 04:14 PM

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Well my daughter is drinking direct too. Only my baby which only go with milk don't.
dreamadream
post Jul 25 2012, 05:33 PM

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anyone heard of CK Energy System? good or?
www.ckftsb.com

claims to produve anti-oxidant water (direct drinkable)

checked with the shop today thot quite pricey. indoor filter costs RM2380 free a water dispenser. uses 6 filters.

This post has been edited by dreamadream: Jul 25 2012, 05:33 PM
zheilwane
post Jul 25 2012, 06:40 PM

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Both Espring and 3M APDWS1000 are tested and verified by NSF with standard 42 & 53 with norminal particulate class I. Both of these filters are good and proven to be safe to direct drink by NSF without affecting our health. If you think 0.4% makes a big difference, how bout comparing things like VOC, chlorine & Nominal Particulate Class I, ≥0.5 to < 1.0 μm reduction.

user posted image

Extrated from
http://www.amway.com/en/ResourceCenterDocu...SFDataSheet.pdf

http://www.3mwater.com/media/catalog/produ...PDWS1000PDS.pdf


I would agree that espring has better disinfection system with the UV light. However, as what stevie said, our water contains chlorine and there is not much harmful bacteria left for the UV light to kill. If there are family members or friends who are too weak, you can just boil the water. If you are not comfortable with the small percentage of bacteria and has extra budget then ofcoz u can go for espring. Once again, 3M has been tested by NSF to be able to filter off harmful contaminants and it is safe to direct drink.

I wouldnt say 3M is the best water filter but just saying that their package could provide a wider range of filtration (providing clean water rated 5 micron for whole house and clean drinking water which is safe to direct drink). So, what is good for your family is for you guys to decide.

This post has been edited by zheilwane: Jul 25 2012, 06:45 PM
dreamadream
post Jul 26 2012, 01:42 PM

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QUOTE(zheilwane @ Jul 25 2012, 06:40 PM)
Both Espring and 3M APDWS1000 are tested and verified by NSF with standard 42 & 53 with norminal particulate class I. Both of these filters are good and proven to be safe to direct drink by NSF without affecting our health. If you think 0.4% makes a big difference, how bout comparing things like VOC, chlorine & Nominal Particulate Class I, ≥0.5 to < 1.0 μm reduction.

user posted image

Extrated from
http://www.amway.com/en/ResourceCenterDocu...SFDataSheet.pdf

http://www.3mwater.com/media/catalog/produ...PDWS1000PDS.pdf
I would agree that espring has better disinfection system with the UV light. However, as what stevie said, our water contains chlorine and there is not much harmful bacteria left for the UV light to kill. If there are family members or friends who are too weak, you can just boil the water. If you are not comfortable with the small percentage of bacteria and has extra budget then ofcoz u can go for espring. Once again, 3M has been tested by NSF to be able to filter off harmful contaminants and it is safe to direct drink.

I wouldnt say 3M is the best water filter but just saying that their package could provide a wider range of filtration (providing clean water rated 5 micron for whole house and clean drinking water which is safe to direct drink). So, what is good for your family is for you guys to decide.
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hi, just a dumb question. For condo, where to install the outdoor water filter (i am refering to your 3M outdoor+indoor package) and do i need special piping for it ? and same for the indoor water filter do i need special piping for it or i can just install the indoor water filter anytime after renovation is completed? How abt the maintenance, how long to change the outdoor and indoor filter and whether we need technicians to come and provide the service, many thanks and sorry if you've answered these questions previously, coz i hd no time to flip page by page notworthy.gif

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